NFL Wild-Card Weekend, CFP Reaction, and ‘“Nothing Makes Me Nervous”

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: NFL Wild-Card Weekend, CFP Reaction, and “Nothing Makes Me Nervous”

Date: January 9, 2026 | Host: The Ringer

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Overview

In this episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul blend sports analysis and candid conversation, diving into the NFL Wild-Card Weekend, the College Football Playoff, and big-name trade rumors in the NBA. Interweaving nostalgia for hip-hop and culture with sharp sports takes, the duo offers both serious insights and uproarious banter. Rich Paul’s industry perspective as a super-agent and Max’s decades of media experience result in a dynamic episode full of memorable stories, spirited debates, and insider knowledge.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hip-Hop Debates & Musical Favorites

[00:05–11:32]

• Top 3 Albums from the ’90s: Rich and Max lightheartedly rehash their previous debate about the best hip-hop albums of the 1990s, with Rich playfully boasting, “I crushed you,” and Max defending his “exquisite” taste.
• Personal Stories: Rich shares memories of Eazy-E shooting a music video in his Cleveland neighborhood and listening to iconic tracks like “Thuggish Ruggish Bone” and “Brothers for the Struggle.”

  “Eazy E came to my neighborhood and shot that video... I was going to Chambers Elementary... wanted to go past the video shoot so bad, but by the time I was gonna go past there, it was a shooting.” (Rich, 02:01)

• Sentimentality & R&B: The conversation transitions to organizing family memorabilia and favorite R&B artists, debating Anita Baker vs. Sade, and the impact of Mary J. Blige and Jodeci.

  “When you talk about...desert island, you had to take 10 records with you. My life is coming.” (Max, 07:32)

• Car Culture & Music: Rich describes the Midwest tradition of “Coming Down”—customizing cars for optimal sound systems where clarity of vocals, not just bass, is paramount.

2. Sports & Athlete Persona

[11:32–24:49]

• College Football Playoff Reaction: The hosts analyze the recent Miami vs. Ole Miss game and controversial officiating in the final moments.

  “The defensive back has two hands on the receiver, pulling him, holding him... That is defensive pass interference.” (Max, 15:21)

• Player Leadership & Authenticity: Extended discussion on quarterback Mendoza, authenticity at the podium, and the importance of genuine leadership in sports.

  “There are guys who...say everything you want to hear...and you know that they believe it. They have...drank the Kool Aid.” (Max, 21:31) “I always say it’s fit over pick...Are you sure you want to be the number one pick?” (Rich, 26:05)

3. Inside the Business: Agents, NIL, and Transfers

[29:13–33:16]

• Damond Williams Jr. Agent Fallout: Rich provides an honest, behind-the-scenes perspective on why player agents sometimes part ways with clients—often because of other business interests with coaches and schools:

  “If that player was gonna be the number one pick...or if that player's name was Arch Manning, he wouldn't have done that.” (Rich, 30:19) “Most agents are team friendly. Why? Because they're gonna have more bites of the apple. The team isn't going nowhere.” (Rich, 33:16)

• NIL and the dark side of college football business come to light, with Paul highlighting conflicting agent interests and optics when news leaks to media.

4. NBA Trade Analysis: Trae Young Blockbuster

[34:23–45:46]

• The Trade: Trae Young is moved for CJ McCollum and Corey Kispert, with no draft picks involved. Rich and Max break down why the deal works for both Atlanta and Washington, focusing on culture fit, asset management, and future flexibility.
• Narrative Control & Player Conduct: Rich stresses the importance of professionalism in how players and organizations handle trades:

  “I think it’s classy for organization not to s*** on a player, and I think it’s classy for a player not to do the same...” (Rich, 39:06)

• Contract Strategies: Deep dive into options for Young’s contract, representation changes, and the “spitefulness” that can inform opt-ins and restructures:

  “His new representation is probably going to want to do is have him opt out and get a new deal to be spiteful towards his old representation.” (Rich, 43:34)

5. Star Big Men Rumors: AD, Giannis & Atlanta

[45:46–56:06]

• Atlanta’s Flexibility & Superstar Trade Market: The duo explores why Atlanta is now ideally positioned to pursue Anthony Davis or Giannis, discussing salary cap constraints, trade assets, and how players/teams weigh options.

  “If you are looking at the Atlanta Hawks, they don’t need Giannis, they got Jalen Johnson. So you got to go by the best fit.” (Rich, 47:35)

• Agent's Mentality: Rich underscores his composure as a top agent when big moves are at stake:

  “Nothing makes me nervous. Do you know, where I'm from, can't get nervous. There's nothing in this industry that can make me nervous.” (Rich, 51:37)

6. NFL Wild-Card Weekend: Picks and Banter

[56:42–69:18]

• Matchups Previewed:
  • Rams at Panthers: Both favor the Rams but note the challenge of repeating wins on the road [58:00–58:51].
  • Packers at Bears: Rich picks the Bears, emphasizing the recent QB advantage [59:24–60:22].
  • Bills at Jags: Lively debate on Josh Allen’s high-stakes playoff moment vs. Trevor Lawrence [60:37–63:52].

    “Josh Allen has more to lose in this scenario.” (Rich, 62:43)

  • 49ers at Eagles: Both pick Eagles, flagging Lane Johnson’s impact and Philly’s defense [64:00–65:02].
  • Patriots at Chargers: Discussion about “soft schedules” and MVP candidates; Rich ultimately picks Chargers but jokes about changing to the Patriots for in-person game potential [65:16–68:17].
  • Steelers at Texans: Saved for next episode [69:09].
• Meta-Banter: The hosts poke fun at each other’s broadcast styles, with Rich accusing Max of “adding minutes” by going on rants [58:56].

7. Coaching Carousel & Final Thoughts

[69:19–71:37]

• Harbaugh to Miami?: Rumors swirl about Jim Harbaugh heading to Miami, with Max and Rich reflecting on franchise needs and leadership.

  “What losing franchises need is...like what Sean Payton did in the Broncos. You need to turn the whole thing around.” (Max, 71:20)

• Rich’s Cleveland Connections: Rich’s Browns fandom and frustration with perennial tough schedules.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “The perfect is the enemy of the good ending.” – Max Kellerman [17:18]
• “I don't want Max Kellerman at my house. Watch the game. If you.” – Rich Paul [17:38]
• “If that player's name was Arch Manning, he wouldn't have done that.” – Rich Paul on Fairness in Agent Decisions [30:19]
• “I always say it’s fit over pick.” – Rich Paul [26:05]
• “Nothing makes me nervous...there's nothing in this industry that can make me nervous.” – Rich Paul [51:37]

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Timestamps for Highlights

• Hip-Hop & R&B Debates: 00:05–11:32
• CFP Officiating & Leadership: 12:58–24:49
• Agent/Player Separation & NIL: 29:13–33:16
• Trae Young Trade Breakdowns: 34:23–45:46
• AD/Giannis Rumors & Agent Life: 45:46–56:06
• NFL Wild-Card Weekend Picks: 56:42–69:18
• Coaching Rumors & Closing: 69:19–71:37

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, sharp, humorous, and insider-driven—mixing nostalgia, light roasting, and deep sports analysis with honest behind-the-scenes commentary.

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Useful for Listeners Who Missed the Episode:

This summary offers a thorough walkthrough of the episode's main arcs, pulling quotes and moments that highlight not just what happened in sports this week, but how deals, reputations, and legacies are shaped behind the scenes. Fans of candid, industry-insider conversation, as well as those interested in the intersection of sports, culture, and business, will find value in this rich, freewheeling episode.

Transcript

[Rich Paul]

I crushed you.

[Max Kellerman]

On what?

[Rich Paul]

On the comments of the top three albums. And I. Oh. From the 90s. And I didn't.

[Max Kellerman]

I knew that was gonna happen. But the chart tops.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no. What I'm saying is I didn't even really dig deep in my bag of albums. I really let you off the hook in a lot of ways.

[Max Kellerman]

I took my three favorite records. Now, my taste is exquisite. You have to understand, it's unimpeachable. So, of course, they're not always gonna be the most popular records.

[Rich Paul]

Your mob style take was a very popular take. I got.

[Max Kellerman]

Cam's mad at you behind that.

[Rich Paul]

Cam's not mad at me. I just talked. Cam's not mad at me. He has some sly, slick remarks, but what else is new? Like, that's.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, but see, I knew. But Mob style is very specific. You have to be of a certain age.

[Rich Paul]

I'm mad at him. I'm mad that he let's. That he. We'll talk about this. We'll have a conversation of old. Not old school, but hip hop album covers, right? And what they. You know. And Cam's Confessions of Fire. This is a whole nother conversation. We'll have another time. So I'm not. But he's not. I talked to him this morning. He's not mad at me. Can't be mad at me. I don't know, but I do. I'm just saying, I. It was like 60. It was a landslide. It was 2 to 1 ratio 33.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah. So you took. You took Snoop, you took.

[Rich Paul]

But I left out Life After Death.

[Max Kellerman]

We both left off big.

[Rich Paul]

I left out Eternal 99, Bone Thugs in Harmony, which was.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you left it out.

[Rich Paul]

I know. I left it out because I didn't want people to say, oh, well, he's just doing that because he's from Cleveland.

[Max Kellerman]

One thing. But one thing I don't know about the whole album. They had a couple of singles.

[Rich Paul]

Monsters, Not a couple of singles.

[Max Kellerman]

For the Love of Money Monster, obviously. Thuggish.

[Rich Paul]

Ruggish, by the way, Eazy E came to my neighborhood and shot that video. He was there. And I remember getting out of school. I was going to Chambers Elementary School, and I wanted to go past the video shoot so bad, but by the time I was gonna go past there, it was a shooting. And so it was.

[Max Kellerman]

There's some songs that drop where you're listening to it and you go, I'm listening to the future. Or some. Like.

[Rich Paul]

I left out Brothers for the Struggle.

[Max Kellerman]

The first time I saw the Jordan Threes. I thought, like, I'm looking at the future, right? Like I'm looking at something I haven't seen before. The first time I heard Thuggish Ruggish Bone, I was like, that's incredible. I was like, I'm listening to the future. But I felt that way about CNN too. Before War Report dropped, I heard, stick you on a mixtape from up. Like I got it uptown. And I was like, what? Who is this?

[Rich Paul]

Next we gotta do R and B. But I want you.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm buy you this from the 90s or period.

[Rich Paul]

I want you to download Brothers for the Struggle if you can download it. My brother and I used to go to our family reunions and rap these verses.

[Max Kellerman]

See, I gave you mob style. You can't download it. You gotta get it on.

[Rich Paul]

I know you probably can't download Brothers for the Struggle either, but I didn't even go in my Tony Draper swabhouse bag. I didn't go to my A G to a key dating family bag.

[Max Kellerman]

Listen, I haven't already been.

[Rich Paul]

There's a lot of bags on this topic.

[Max Kellerman]

This is my question because I've been to your place and it's so. Everything is crisp, like you're on a. Your house. Everything looks like you're on a movie set or a TV set. It's all perfect.

[Rich Paul]

I told you I have an ocd.

[Max Kellerman]

But so do I. That's the thing. So I'm just moved back to LA a couple months ago and I'm setting up the house, getting the house set up. And I'm going through boxes. Right. Of my daughter's things too, because the whole house got packed up and moved out here. And it is so hard for me because I'm sentimental, to decide what to throw away and what to keep from them. You know what I mean? They have.

[Rich Paul]

Let me send you some help. I have people, people that can really maybe do this.

[Max Kellerman]

Maybe I need the help. But then sometimes I'll throw something away. I will literally go back. I'll go back down to the garage and take it back.

[Rich Paul]

Here's what you have to do because.

[Max Kellerman]

It'S from when they're five years old. It's a little thing.

[Rich Paul]

They may have my people come over. They'll call you, they'll come over, make your life so much easier. They will not throw anything away. But what they will do is label everything so you know what's what. And when you have time, you can. But. But they'll do all the other organizing things for you.

[Max Kellerman]

Think I need that? I'M too sentimental about my kids, man. I can't let go of.

[Rich Paul]

There's no question you need it. But with that being said, are you a Anita Baker or Sade person?

[Max Kellerman]

I have to choose. That's why I asked if I have to choose.

[Rich Paul]

Ooh. Is a tough one.

[Max Kellerman]

Anita Baker, really, I have to choose. Just because that first album she dropped. The music is not comp.

[Rich Paul]

I gave you all the. You know, you don't.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, of course, with shocking.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying. But I. But I have to agree because I am every week by myself, riding. I gotta put that rap. Sure, love. I gotta put it on. I have to put it on.

[Max Kellerman]

One of the most gangster things I ever heard about MJ was he would sing to people. Giving you the best that I got while he was giving him work.

[Rich Paul]

That is, while he's giving him work. And that explains the white socks with the dress shoes. Yeah, that is very gangster. If he did that. I'm gonna ask him if he did that.

[Max Kellerman]

But singing Anita giving you the best that I got.

[Rich Paul]

But Anita Baker, man.

[Max Kellerman]

Sade's music was more like the musical part. The. The actual instrumentals were more advanced than Anita Baker. But there's something about Anita Baker's songs that sounded so good to me.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, listen. Playing that type of music, I'm from the mid Midwest.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

So we have this thing called Coming Down. It's when you basically take a old school car, you put a bunch of music in it. We go too far. It's to the extreme. But the most important thing is the music. And you would think like when Lil Wayne Block is Hot came out and there was a song on there called Lights Out, Lights off, the way it started, like, a lot of people better move out. But if you have these speakers in your car and it's not the bass. See, people always think about the bass. It's not about the bass. Our thing was, I want you to be able to hear the words. Just like when you go to a concert. Yeah, I want you to be. Jay Z was special at this. When you go to a Jay Z show, he focused on you hearing every word. Every single word.

[Max Kellerman]

There was no mumble like Frank Sinatra or something.

[Rich Paul]

But it was the same way when we focus on the. And that's how you can tell if someone had the right sounds. But when you play Sade or Anita Baker or when I was in sophomore in high school, maybe a junior Mary's Share My World album.

[Max Kellerman]

No, listen, hold on. Which one was that? Which I'm trying to. I Don't remember what was called.

[Rich Paul]

I remember the first one. First the 411. Then it's my life. Then I think it's Share World.

[Max Kellerman]

My life to me is.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, my life is a classic.

[Max Kellerman]

Not just a classic. My life. When you talk about. Let's say you had desert island, you had to take 10 records with you. My life is coming.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. So it's forever, my lady. For me. Because I'm just saying, when I was a kid, I remember we stayed in. We moved back from St. Louis and we stayed in Americana, out in Euclid as a suburb. My dad had a little honeycomb hideout joint and we had to move there. It was a one bedroom and we all had to move there, me and my brother and sister. But my sister, I wanted my ears pierced. And her friend, our friend named Darnesha, she pierced my ear. The first time I ever had my ear pierced. And I came in and it was. She did this in the kitchen with like a needle on the stove and alcohol. But the Jodeci album had just came out.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, it's a nice.

[Rich Paul]

And they were playing it and it was. So anyway, not to get off topic, but those. I'm just like, I much rather listen to that music.

[Max Kellerman]

When you see. In New York. It wasn't in New York. It's not like you don't see the old school Caddy.

[Rich Paul]

No, you don't see that.

[Max Kellerman]

However, once in a while you will see some dude like at least my age or older, usually a little older than me in a car like that, right. That they hooked up playing some Teddy Pendergrass or something.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, it's beautiful.

[Max Kellerman]

Driving down the street slow and you look at this dude, be like, he's the happiest.

[Rich Paul]

Teddy was the true player. He had the jeans, Teddy bear jeans. He had the jeans, Teddy bear. Everything recycles itself because Nelly had apple bottom. But like Teddy Pendergrass. You ever saw that documentary? No. Oh, you have to watch it. You never saw it. Mm. Okay. You got some homework, Max? Cause you. You at the barbecue, they're putting extra sauce on your ribs at the barbecue, so.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm invited to all the cookouts.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's all good. But you know where you do see these cars at in la?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah, for sure.

[Rich Paul]

Cause Nipsey made Summertime in that. I'm like, I always thought about like six fours and things like that. But no, it's actually the same, kind of the same as it was for.

[Max Kellerman]

Us when I first got to LA. This is going back 15 years, something like that. Came out to do a radio show on ESPN LA with Marcellus Wiley. And I'm looking, I'm thinking, well, a guy from New York's gonna be on LA radio. I should look. Let me dig in and find out an LA artist who I don't think's getting enough shine, right? So I'm listening. I'm listening. I'm like, okay, Nipsey Hussle. I'm gonna.

[Rich Paul]

What year was this?

[Max Kellerman]

2010, maybe.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, so, yeah. So fairly early Nipsey.

[Max Kellerman]

Right, right. It was like, you know, and I would play Radio friendly, like I'm feeling myself for Keys to the City. Right? I played those two. Right.

[Rich Paul]

So Keys to the City is.

[Max Kellerman]

They're both great songs. So I'm playing it. And my point, and I was thinking about, there was a DJ back east, decades and decades ago, who was just gonna play Sinatra until Sinatra called the station, Right. Once he got Sinatra on the line, 47, like in the 50s, probably, something like that. Who knows? So he kept playing it. Kept playing it, and Sinatra let him do it for a month, and then he called him. So he got a month of.

[Rich Paul]

That was actually pretty cool. I'm smart by Sinatra.

[Max Kellerman]

So I say the same thing on the air. I'm like, I'm gonna keep playing these in and out of every commercial break till Nipsey calls. It's a sports show, but I'm gonna play them as intros and outros. Nipsey called, like, later that day. I was like, nipsey, what are you doing? You were gonna get a month of burn on ESPN Radio. And he goes, yeah, my manager told me this is on the air. He's like, yeah, My manager told me, don't call. But I figured.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what that is? That's if you knew him. That's.

[Max Kellerman]

I didn't know him.

[Rich Paul]

But that's still like the right here, right now type of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's actually. That's a pretty cool story.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

All right, let's get to the show. What we got? We talking sports. I don't want to talk sports.

[Max Kellerman]

Gotta start the event. No, we have to talk sports.

[Rich Paul]

I know we have to talk sports. I didn't want to. I seen the sweat. Like, what?

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, we could just hang out and talk, but eventually we're gonna talk.

[Rich Paul]

That may be a cool thing. I don't know what our producers would think about that, but I love to hang out and talk, for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

But if we're hanging out and talking, we're getting around to Miami, Ole Miss. We're getting around to the NFL. We're getting around to Trae Young. I'm gonna see if I can get in touch with AD's agent because there's rumors he might be going to Atlanta. Let me see.

[Rich Paul]

We don't have to talk about.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, I got his agent's number in my phone.

[Rich Paul]

We don't have to talk about everything, but we could talk about most things.

[Max Kellerman]

Certain things.

[Rich Paul]

Certain things, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInCeneticUT. Rich Another classic college football playoff game. That was a classic last night.

[Rich Paul]

I love Michael Irvin, man. Michael Irvin. I don't care what you say about Michael Irving. That energy that Michael Irving brings, infectious. It should be. You should be able to find that in like erewhon. Like that is a health.

[Max Kellerman]

I got a Michael Irvin story for you actually, since you brought him up.

[Rich Paul]

But here's what I'm saying. It's just the passion that he. He's not even playing Rich. He's not even playing the game, Rich.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm in my. I had an apartment downtown by Washington Square park going, this is going back now 20 years maybe at least, maybe more. At least 20 years. All of a sudden I get a doorman rings me up. I'm on ESPN at the time. Michael Irvin is in the lobby. I don't know. He was in New York. He just swung through to say what's up? I go downstairs, he's in one of his. It looks like pajamas almost. You know what I mean? It's a track suit, but almost looks like pajamas. And every doorman's there. Who wants to take pic. There's a whole like staff in the bottom of the building. Everyone's taking pictures with him. He just came by cuz he was in the city and I don't even remember how he got my address or anything, but wanted to swing through and say what's up? And Chop it up for a few minutes. But everyone like he comes into the lobby and everyone's lit up.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. It's just that. You know what I need? If our friends at Mitchell and S is watching. Send me the Michael Irving. I want the white Michael Irving Mitchell and Ness jersey. I have to wear it. I have to.

[Max Kellerman]

Now he's got one of the best personalities in.

[Rich Paul]

I ran into him at BOA one night. I won't have the conversation here, but I loved the conversation. Loved it. It's like I ran into my uncle. It was fucking great. Love it.

[Max Kellerman]

That game. Yeah, right. Everything pageantry, everything around the game but that game. And it was like Raven Steelers to me in the sense that it starts off not slow but it's a struggle to score. So that as the game goes on in the second half, the scoring starts to go back and forth. It like reaches a crescendo. But the thing that really. And by the way, it felt to me like Ole Miss was destined to win that game. It felt to me like.

[Rich Paul]

Kept saying that.

[Max Kellerman]

I know it felt. They felt like a team of destiny to make. Maybe it's Trinidad Chambliss, maybe it's that they lose their coach, but they're still balling whatever it is. It felt like a movie story.

[Rich Paul]

Two well coached teams. It's one of those games where you hate that someone has to lose.

[Max Kellerman]

But the way they lost bothered me. Like I understand the ref's point. Like the last play of the game, the last play of the game, no PI is called and on the broadcast they kind of brushed by it. Well, no, you're not going to call that. Whatever, Rich. It's not just that they're fighting for the ball. The defensive back has two hands on the receiver, pulling him, holding him, stopping him from making a play on the. On a catchable ball that is defensive pass interference. And if that is called properly, which it should be, the way it works in college, you're not going to get it on the one yard line. You're going to get 15 yard penalty, repeat the down. So they were on like the 35.

[Rich Paul]

So they beat.

[Max Kellerman]

Now think about this. They'd be on the 20 and Trinidad Chambliss has one last shot to win the game for Ole Miss. So what bothers me about the play is not just that they call it differently then than they would do it earlier in the game, but the philosophy. Why the refs don't do that is they're like, we don't want to decide the game. Let's the Players decide the game. Actually, if they call it correctly, the players do decide the game. We get an even better ending because we get another shot, this time from 20 yards to see if they can score. It would have been better.

[Rich Paul]

Max, you are a true fanatic. Yes, you are.

[Max Kellerman]

Don't you think that's PI?

[Rich Paul]

You are. You know what I thought was PI? When Randy Moss against your Giants was running down the field, they were all over him. Never called.

[Max Kellerman]

Not like you talking about in OC.

[Rich Paul]

You didn't think that was PI. So why you think this is PI, Rich?

[Max Kellerman]

They didn't.

[Rich Paul]

And by the way. By the way, you don't have two.

[Max Kellerman]

Hands on the guy pulling him.

[Rich Paul]

Why would. Listen, man, like, you want to. Like watching a game with you.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's like you want the perfect play.

[Max Kellerman]

Perfect. The perfect is the enemy of the good ending.

[Rich Paul]

The perfect. Like, what are you. Can't you just watch the game? Eat the. Did you have, like, chips and dip?

[Max Kellerman]

No. No chips and dip. Actually, I went to dinner. I went to dinner after the game.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. But I'm just letting you know right now.

[Max Kellerman]

So I did have chips and guac, but that was it.

[Rich Paul]

Then when you come over my house. Yeah. Don't come to my house as Max Kellerman. Do not come to my house as Max Kellerman. We watch games. Come to my house as Max. I don't want Max Kellerman at my. At my house. Watch the game. If you.

[Max Kellerman]

Hold on. Was that PI at the end or not?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know if it was PI or eu. Whatever it was. Miami's going to the national championship. It's going to be the biggest tailgate in Miami. And because they beat my Ohio State Buckeyes, I'm looking forward to Miami winning the national championship. Because it would make me feel better.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. If the team that beats your team goes off, that's all I care about. By the way, Carson Beck, maybe he's the best quarterback in the draft. Like, I don't know about that. He played spec.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know about that. But I tell you what he is. He's smart for transitioning to Miami when he chose to. And he's also the most experienced.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, that's what he is.

[Max Kellerman]

Mendoza's about 42 years old. Like, that whole Indiana team is pretty old.

[Rich Paul]

Not just any of that. Mendoza is playing. Why? Why would you talk about Mendoza like that?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, I'm not. It's like Joe Burrow was also old when he went into the league. It's okay. He's just More experienced. I'm not downing him. It's just a fact. Indiana has an older team than other teams. It's one of their advantages because they're grown men.

[Rich Paul]

It's nil. Everybody has an older team. Didn't you see Coach Kyle talking about the man had to go pay his insurance bill or something and then come like, this is the way.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, everyone's complaining about Nil and all the games a mess and this and that. And I would say that that's true. Like, if you look at men's college basketball, it's not what it once was.

[Rich Paul]

College football has been good.

[Max Kellerman]

College football, college basketball.

[Rich Paul]

We have to.

[Max Kellerman]

We have to admit the College Football Playoff has been unbelievable.

[Rich Paul]

They're knocking out the park. College basketball, men's college.

[Max Kellerman]

Because women's game is in great shape.

[Rich Paul]

Women's game is great. The biggest problem with college basketball today is not because of college basketball. It starts in youth sports. We have a youth sports problem. That's what we have.

[Max Kellerman]

Only someone could fix that. That'd be great.

[Rich Paul]

Maybe I will.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, I'm in.

[Rich Paul]

That would be my give back.

[Max Kellerman]

But I bring up Carson Beck as maybe the best quarterback in the draft.

[Rich Paul]

He's playing the best.

[Max Kellerman]

Says, you know, between Fernando Mendoza and Dante Moore, who are facing each other tonight to see who plays Miami, right. Indiana and Oregon. That between those two guys, even though Mendoza is the presumptive number one overall pick. And Mendoza's got a great personality and he's played great the whole. Like, he's played great when he's had to. He's played great offseason.

[Rich Paul]

Why do you say Mitch Joseph has a great personality? Because he looks in the camera when he's talking to the media.

[Max Kellerman]

He knows how to. Because I'll tell you why you will sometimes get a quarterback or a leader of a team who says the wrong thing. Okay, you put that in one category. You have a leader of a team who says the right thing, but they didn't really drink the Kool Aid.

[Rich Paul]

Wait a minute.

[Max Kellerman]

You could see that you have a.

[Rich Paul]

Leader of a team that says the wrong thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you could have a leader of a team. Don't make me call guys out right now.

[Rich Paul]

Call them out. Call him out.

[Max Kellerman]

You blame me. You try to blow. Have you never experienced watching a quarterback say something and you're like, dude, come on. Either in delivery or in the message where you're like, okay, don't call him out.

[Rich Paul]

Just in case we represent one of them.

[Max Kellerman]

This is what I'm saying. No, don't call him out. So I'm not gonna call him out. Who knows? But the point is, every sports fan has experienced this. Like, what? He just. That's not the way you do it. Then you have some dudes who get on the podium and they say the right things, but you can see that they're calculating what to say.

[Rich Paul]

Well, is that genuine? No.

[Max Kellerman]

Because what they genuinely feel.

[Rich Paul]

So it's manufactured.

[Max Kellerman]

Is right. It's not authentic. Then you have some guys.

[Rich Paul]

So are you saying that his nickname should be Manufactured Mendoza?

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Rich Paul]

Because I like Mendoza and I don't agree with you.

[Max Kellerman]

Me too. There are guys, though, that do that, and you're like, no. When you say, why do I say Mendoza has a great personality? Then there are guys who get up on the podium and they say the thing you want to hear your franchise quarterback say. And you know that they believe it. They have. They have. They drank the Kool Aid and they believe the things they're saying. So when I say Mendoza has a great personality for your franchise quarterback, that's what I mean. He gets up at the podium, he says everything you want to hear your quarterback say.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And there's no. There's no sense that he's not comfortable in his own skin. Like, he has to do some calculation. Okay, I'll give you an example of a guy who would have to be very circumspect during his career, much better after his career.

[Rich Paul]

No, don't say it. Don't say it. No.

[Max Kellerman]

He's a retired player.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, you can say it.

[Max Kellerman]

So take a guy like a Rod, when a Rod was in his prime.

[Rich Paul]

A Rod's my friend. Don't say it.

[Max Kellerman]

But no, no, I'll say this to a Rod. Like, I think now that he's on TV as an analyst, a lot of the pressure is off and he's able to be himself, and he's great. But when he was a player, a lot of the times you got the sense that he was making a calculation about how this was gonna sound to other people when he spoke. As opposed to a guy like Jeter who said the thing you wanted him to say, and you thought he just believes that. So when a dude like a Rod's talking, sometimes you feel like he's doing that because what he really has, says, wants to say, he thinks isn't going to land well.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I would say my opinion of Mendoza is he understands the assignment. He does. And you. And. And when you are a quarterback, you know, oftentimes people don't want to act the part. And I do think in professional sports, and I say this to my guys all the time, there's like 80%, 85%, like really being who you are, et cetera. And then there's another 15% in understanding that you also have to act the part. That doesn't mean be fake. That means like, okay, autograph signing. That means, you know, give a kid a dap in the front row or whatever. Or, you know, you, you, you, you conversate, have dialogue, maybe you wait after, come back out, you know, and take pictures with it.

[Max Kellerman]

It's all part of the responsibility of the role.

[Rich Paul]

Leadership also it spills off the floor into, okay, setting up dinners with the teammates and, you know, fun things. If, if you are the leader of.

[Max Kellerman]

The team and Mendoza seems to me.

[Rich Paul]

Every box that way you check those boxes, he seems like the guy that if his teammate dropped a wide open pass, his body language isn't going to say, show him up, right? He's going to come over and say, don't worry about it. Catch the next one. And as a leader and you know, I played quarterback for the SIMS Raiders in 91.

[Max Kellerman]

Every time I ask you about it, you get younger and younger though. How old were you when you stopped playing quarterback?

[Rich Paul]

Well, I think I was like 13.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. All right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But anyway, that's part of it.

[Max Kellerman]

Those guys get. That's when everyone starts to grow. It's like, nope, that dude's coming off the edge.

[Rich Paul]

Maybe they should move me to safety. Free safety at that. I'll just make sure that that'd be.

[Max Kellerman]

Crazy to play football.

[Rich Paul]

No, but I like Mendoza a lot. But if Todd McShay said something.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, so, so McShay says I'm rolling with Todd, right? What he says is Mendoza like the presumptive 12 pick. It's Mendoza and Dante Moore and they face each other tonight to see who goes to the title. National title game. And Indiana's favorite, although Oregon blew out Texas Tech and the whole thing. But he thinks that if you. Not who's ready to play as a rookie more. But McShay said that if you project out like Patrick Mahomes had a year to develop. He only started one game and then started really as a, as a, as a second year player and then took the league by storm. He said if you do that, you give a development year to.

[Rich Paul]

Nobody thought Patrick Mahomes would be as good as he is.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, that was insane.

[Rich Paul]

They didn't see it on his tape.

[Max Kellerman]

That was it. But he said if you do that Then he likes Dante Moore's future best.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but I don't think that's negative towards Mendoza. I think it's all about. I always say it's fit over pick and no matter what.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you mean like what coach he's going to, what system he's going to all this?

[Rich Paul]

Yes. I think most people, and in my profession, most guys are selling, oh, you're going to be a top pick and this and that. Since I said this on our show Clutch Academy years ago, it's always fit over pick because are you sure you want to be the number one pick? What if you go into the number one team and there's so many different things that's that's not there. It's going to be incredibly hard for you to be successful. Does your ego say ah, yeah, but I still want to go number one versus if I can get to number four and you plug and play, my career has a better chance of being successful. I individually have a better chance of being successful. My team is going to win more. To me that says a lot about the individual. Now you can't stop a team from taking you. But I do have, I've had.

[Max Kellerman]

But you can do things like what Eli Manning did with his dad did.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Philip Rivers.

[Rich Paul]

I do have. I do have.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause they went one in four.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But again, he was self aware to me and he also had a dad.

[Max Kellerman]

Who had unfair amount of experience.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, he knew. And so kudos to them. And you see Eli went to the Giants and he got two super bowl rings and the rest is history. But it does say a lot. And so it's all about fit over pick though.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel football fans. We've waited all season for this. It's time to flip the switch to playoff mode on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, all FanDuel customers can get in on the action with a wild card reward for the NFL Wildcard round. Just pick your card and you can win up to 100% profit. Boost. Head to FanDuel.com gameover for a chance to double your winnings for the NFL wild card round. Play your game with FanDuel, an official sports betting partner of the NFL playoffs, 21 and over and present in select states or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in. Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook fanduel.com gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut. While we're on the topic of college football quarterbacks, you see Damon Williams Jr. In Washington. His agent came out and said he's parting ways with him because he committed. And now he's like, because he committed? No, no, I would. Because he's supposed to be at one place and all of a sudden. The point is, I wanna brand this, like, under the hood or something like that. In your experience behind the scenes, how do you read the Damond Williams situation and his agent saying, we're parting ways because.

[Rich Paul]

Do you want the truth or do you want me to just. Are we really going under the hood?

[Max Kellerman]

We're going under the hood, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

This is very simple. All this is. Is. And I don't know who his agent is, but if his agent came out. And I've been in a situation before where you had to part ways with a guy and it's all different reasons, but in this case, this is very simple. I can almost guarantee you, if you just look. If you really looked under the hood, this is his agent choosing the coach who they probably represent and the university who they probably represent. 10 to 15 guys from this same school over this one player, one school client.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

And that could be because of a number of things, but I can guarantee you one thing. If that player was gonna be the number one pick in the NFL draft, whether it's this year or next year or whatever, or if that player's name was Arch Manning, he wouldn't have done that.

[Max Kellerman]

So Damon Williams don't have enough juice to keep the agent.

[Rich Paul]

I don't want to go too far under the hood.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Because I would need my roller as a mechanic. Like, this is just us changing the.

[Max Kellerman]

This is you looking from a distance and saying, this is what this says to me.

[Rich Paul]

This is just us changing the fluids and putting some. Changing. Putting some oil in. We're not. We're not taking the whole oil pan out, and we just. The car needs some oil. But that's what this sounds like to me. And like I said, I've been in a situation where I had to part ways with someone. Whether you put it out in the media, that was mutual for the best of everybody or whatever the case may be, this smells a little different.

[Max Kellerman]

So if the agent comes out, just a shorthand is. If you see an agent come out after a player makes a decision to leave a Program. If your read of that is generally like reflexively, the agent had more business interests with the team than with the player. If you really were the team's business interest represent a bigger business to the agent.

[Rich Paul]

If you looked under the hood, what this says is the coach of the team. And what team was it?

[Max Kellerman]

Washington.

[Rich Paul]

University of Washington. The Huskies.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

The coach. I can almost guarantee you that coach is probably signed to the agency of the agent that came out. And Gemini, there's some.

[Max Kellerman]

Can we get something. Some kind of search engine sponsorship.

[Rich Paul]

There's a conversation amongst them them and it's like, look, you know, you have to choose. Or that might not even have been.

[Max Kellerman]

It doesn't have to be said.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Don't even have to be explained. And so that's what it looks like to me. But this is the dark side. This is the dark side of nil. This is the dark side of, you know, our business.

[Max Kellerman]

And what's dark about it.

[Rich Paul]

The dark thing about it is that kid is. And also what you're doing in that case is because I saw it on ESPN and it read the kid's name. Agent, parts agent, parts ways with the.

[Max Kellerman]

Kid, with Damond Williams Jr.

[Rich Paul]

Right. So what that does is because they basically this. Whatever the agent was, he got out in front of it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

So therefore is not reversed because it could be reversed.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. And it also reads like the way that positions. The story is Damond Williams Jr. Made a commitment to one place and now because he's not honoring the commitment, I must part ways. Best of luck to him. When the reality is that has nothing to do with it. It's that there's more business interest. Your read of it from a distance is there's more business interest that the coach or whatever or other players he has or relationship he has with the university represents better business to the agent than the players.

[Rich Paul]

That's what most. Listen in our business. Most agents are team friendly. Why? Because they're gonna have more bites of the apple. The team isn't going nowhere.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause the teams are the buyers and they're gonna be buyers forever.

[Rich Paul]

Players come and go. So in this case, who cares if the kid wants to go to this school or another school? If you're still the agent and you're doing the work and getting paid, you want that, right? In a normal instance, you want to have multiple options. What this is saying is we have a relationship with you that I push guys to you in this company in return, in a situation like this, I'm not standing next to this kid who because if he leaves this school, one thing, and if he goes back and.

[Max Kellerman]

The added wrinkle is, since he got out in front of it in the media, the agent did it also kind of frames the agent as the good guy and the kid as the guy who's a snake, kind of.

[Rich Paul]

I didn't see the wording.

[Max Kellerman]

So on Wednesday, we brought out the whiteboard and you did a whole anatomy of a tree, the way it works, you know. And in this case, we were talking about Trae Young. Right. And then Trae Young actually got moved.

[Rich Paul]

Who did he get moved for?

[Max Kellerman]

One of the things. Well, we're going to get into that right now. It was C.J. mcCollum and Corey Kisser.

[Rich Paul]

I told you this, though.

[Max Kellerman]

Now, what was interesting, first of all, is no draft picks were exchanged at all. Why would there be on your whiteboard? You thought draft picks were going to be exchanged?

[Rich Paul]

No, I said asset management, meaning the GM that was trading him out would not want to connect draft picks to the trade out. And I said the GM that was trading him in would want.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. But they didn't get him.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, well, I didn't say they had to be.

[Max Kellerman]

Now, McCollum and Kisper, it's an interesting trade to me. I want to get your analysis. Here's my take. McCollum is a winning vet, good guy to add, period. And Kispert is. Because he's not really a 3 and D guy, more of a 3D, maybe the eighth guy on a. You know, like he's a specialist who comes off the bench and can hit shots and stuff and knows how to play ball. Smart player. McCollum could stay. Now, once you take Trey off the team, the team gets better this year anyway because it's happened twice, and both times the team got better. So that's already addition by surprise.

[Rich Paul]

Well, the team, you can say the team got better. They did, but the team played better.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. But their record was better without him then.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, fair.

[Max Kellerman]

So already better. And now you add a couple of nice pieces, complimentary pieces, that should help. So now they're better. But McCollum's contract plus Porzingis contract plus, they kept their draft picks. They can. There's a lot of speculation they could make a move for ad. Bill Simmons on his pod Rich speculated that a lot of that is, you know, they're running the Okie doke. Because what they're trying to do is pressure Milwaukee to give up Giannis because otherwise we're gonna go get ad so it drives the price down on Giannis. Cause supply goes up, demand goes down. There are two guys in the market instead of one. Hey, we'll go get AD if you don't. That's Simmons theory. Either way, you now have the McCollum contract. If you're the Hawks, the Porzingis contract and your draft picks to make a move to, to make you title contenders right now and set you up going forward. And if that doesn't happen, you added two nice pieces for a piece that wasn't helping you. From the Washington point of view, you got he's going to opt into his 49 million. Most likely is a speculation. Trae Young, you have one year next year to evaluate. Can Trae Young buy in and be a part of something good here and we can extend them, or do we let that contract just lapse and take them off the books? I think the trade makes sense for both teams.

[Rich Paul]

So what are you asking me?

[Max Kellerman]

What's your analysis of the trade?

[Rich Paul]

What is my analysis of the trade?

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

That's a very broad question.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's start with do you think the trade was good for Atlanta, was it good for Washington? And then we can spin it forward and see what, what this means for AD and or Giannis?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think it was good for both. If it wasn't, it wouldn't happen. So in Atlanta's case, they're saying, you know what, it's probably best that we just move on. There's no sense of having this guy, this player still around in the locker room, et cetera. And we were able to get some expiring contract and CJ McCollum, they already have expiring contract in Porzingis. You bring a player like Crisper who they could flip, but at the same time, it depends if Quinn Snyder likes him a little bit due to the fact that they have the kill. Alexander Walker, who's actually been playing better, Dyson Daniels, not the biggest shooter, Jalen Johnson, who is their all around guy. You got big O. So the shooting aspect of it with.

[Max Kellerman]

Crispert, and you also bring up IQ players, like when the eighth guy on your bench knows how to play.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he's gonna know as well.

[Max Kellerman]

He's one of those guys.

[Rich Paul]

Well, this is, by the way, they have another guy, Kyle Korver, in their front office. Crisper becomes somewhat something like that. But in addition to that, the CJ McCollum piece of it is big for Atlanta and what they're trying to build from a culture perspective now, I would imagine once he gets there, they're going to love him. They're really going to want to keep him around. And CJ's easy going. He's a Canton, Ohio guy, easygoing, smart guy.

[Max Kellerman]

He's a good player, really good player, like still really good.

[Rich Paul]

He won games. He beat Milwaukee with the step back, going right step back to win the game. And again, I'm sure Washington was probably like no because obviously they want to. This is one of the last years of their rebuilding situation. And so that's Atlanta, right? Not to get into anything else. That's Atlanta in Trey's case also. Again, remember I told you controlling the narrative about this entire thing. And when you're in a situation like this, I think it's classy for organization not to on a player and I think it's classy for a player not to do the same to an organization because you just never know where things come back around to and you don't want to burn any bridges. But what I will.

[Max Kellerman]

Just the way you, it's even not transactionally just the way you conduct yourself matters.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think that matters. In Trey's case. This is actually a situation that could become good for him. It depends on his attitude going up in. Because you were once a top five pick by the Atlanta Hawks. They paid him, you know, he got the max contract, traded for Luka, he was an all star traded for Luka, et cetera. But I don't even, I don't count that because that really wasn't. We make a sense of that. But that wasn't that, that wasn't that thing.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you mean that wasn't that thing?

[Rich Paul]

Because when you're in a draft like that, basically Dallas, I mean Atlanta had what? Dallas had five. They took Trey, Atlanta had three.

[Max Kellerman]

Doncic, they took no, two.

[Rich Paul]

Wait, no. Doncic went two. Bagley went two.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So but that was done already. That was a done thing. So it wasn't really like you were traded for Luka. That was done before. But anyway, in Dallas's, I mean in Trey's case, going to Washington. Here's what I will say. Will Dawkins came from OKC with Sam Presti. So you have a general manager who understands what it's like to start over and not just start over, but to start over in the right way. I will tell you this. During the pre draft process, the last few years that he's been there, every one of my guys that's been to Washington D.C. wizards have said, bro, I hope they draft me. What that means is they're doing all the little things, right. From a culture perspective, then you have a ownership group in Monumental led by Ted Leonis and sons Zach Leonis. You're not going to find two better people than Ted Leonis and Zach Leonis's. Right. So those two components. Then you have the coach who again was at OKC understands it. They drafted pretty well. Right. And so I imagine whether trade option, if he. I mean, it's a $49 million player.

[Max Kellerman]

Option, he's gonna opt in.

[Rich Paul]

Well, it depends.

[Max Kellerman]

Unless they do a.

[Rich Paul]

Well, here's the thing. In a situation like that, should he opt in? Probably so.

[Max Kellerman]

But $50 million.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But if you're opting out, so you got 50, so what am I making on top of that? Cause you can't make up for the 50 if you opt out anyway. So you opt. But if you do opt out and you say, okay, what am I gonna make on top of that? That's just a structural. Just a structural thing. And the other reason.

[Max Kellerman]

So Washington has to make a decision. Do we offer him something that takes that 50 down a little bit, but gives him on average, but gives him a ton of more guaranteed money and from his. And. Or do we let him play that season on the opt in to see if this thing is going to work? And if it works, we extend him and if it doesn't work, okay, he goes.

[Rich Paul]

That is all. That is all the options. That is, that is. That is. That probably makes the most sense. Trey has new representation. So what his new representation is probably going to want to do is have him opt out and get a new deal to be spiteful towards his old representation.

[Max Kellerman]

Who is his old representation?

[Rich Paul]

So they don't get paid on the last year of that deal.

[Max Kellerman]

Who is his old representation?

[Rich Paul]

Don't matter to us. But I think.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm pretty sure I know them.

[Rich Paul]

Nevertheless, I do think that there's a situation where if Trey does opt in and the Wizards are saying, okay, let's evaluate this thing, that would probably be the smartest thing to do for them. But if they feel good about it, he's not going to play this year anyway. He's coming off an injury and you probably don't want to rush back for that. And it makes sense, right? Because they're not. They're still evaluating a lot of your young players. And you know what you have in a Trey young. Now it's about all those other pieces and how he really wants to fit because it's a different. Because you can't go, I'm sorry, I.

[Max Kellerman]

Can'T get past this opt in thing with his old representation. What percentage of the 50 million, give or take it's 49. Does the old representation get? Because I imagine if I'm the old representation and he doesn't. And he doesn't opt in. Instead he restructures.

[Rich Paul]

That's part of the business.

[Max Kellerman]

50, even if you're only taking 2% of 50, that's a million bucks.

[Rich Paul]

No, but it don't matter.

[Max Kellerman]

That keeps the lights on in the office for a year from. That's a pretty big deal.

[Rich Paul]

But that's part of the business. And I'm not going to spend no time. I'm just giving you the spitefulness of what things take place, you know, and that's our business. But it don't.

[Max Kellerman]

But also, you know what it's like? It's like when. Who was it. Was it in the Godfather when he says. When Sollozzo tells him, well, if half a million dollars in cash is just.

[Rich Paul]

But sometimes you get.

[Max Kellerman]

Salute to you, Don Corleone.

[Rich Paul]

Sometimes you get penalized for doing a great job, but that won't stop. That won't ever stop.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich. That's seven figures out the door.

[Rich Paul]

So what? That should never stop you from doing a great job. That's part of the business.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? Okay. They don't call him poor Paul, but.

[Rich Paul]

At the end of the day, you know, I think the wealth is in the mind, so it don't matter. But I do think that he's in a good. I think he's in a great. I think he's in a really good spot because of. But again, the approach is. In this situation, the approach is what matters more than anything.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, we covered the Washington, Atlanta. Now everyone's going to look forward. Rich. And this is the part people are really waiting for as they're fast forwarding through the pod. Wait, wait. When are they gonna get to the AD stuff? McCollum, Porzingis, they have all their draft capital. AD is sitting out there. Giannis has come out and said, I would never ask for a trade.

[Rich Paul]

I don't understand that.

[Max Kellerman]

It makes me suspicious that Simmons theory.

[Rich Paul]

I take that back.

[Max Kellerman]

I do want to correct.

[Rich Paul]

Actually, no, I do understand because it's not me.

[Max Kellerman]

Everybody, if they come and get me, if I wind up in Atlanta, it's not my fault.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Look, no player wants to hear their name in trades. No player wants to be the one that acts out. Very few players wants to take on.

[Max Kellerman]

That because the fan base turns against them and stuff.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But that's just not who they are. Players don't like confrontation. That's just not who they are. That's just not how they're built. They don't like that for the most part. Very few players like the confrontation.

[Max Kellerman]

So when you hear Giannis say that, as you are AD's representative, AD is and Giannis are the two that are mentioned as potentially the two biggest names trade partners for the Hawks. Because AD is several years older than Giannis, it is thought that probably correctly, it will take more to get Giannis than it will to get ad. So if you're the Hawks and you believe both are available, you have a decision to make. Do you want Giannis going because you think he has more years of his prime going forward than AD does, and are you willing to give up more for that? Or do you want AD and you can hold on to more of your resources and slide AD into this team immediately? Either player, they're title contenders.

[Rich Paul]

I think if you are looking at the Atlanta Hawks, they don't need Giannis, they got Jalen Johnson. So you got to go by the best fit. If you are the Dallas Mavericks, you're looking at, okay, we own our own first round pick for this year. After that, we don't have a first round pick until 2031. So we have a decision to make. Kyrie's not there, so we can't see this group hold whole. Cooper Flag's a rookie.

[Max Kellerman]

Remember on the way the timing doesn't line up, I had.

[Rich Paul]

That's what I pointed to, timeline. Now, you could do whatever you want, but if you're looking at this holistically and you the Dallas Mavericks, once you got Cooper Flag, in my opinion, if I'm running the team, which I'm not, don't plan on doing it. Everything changes now. My timeline totally changes. If I'm sitting there and I'm looking at a Kyrie Irving and an Anthony Davis one, two punch, that's also a different timeline. If I had the ability to see what the sample size of Kyrie, AD and Cooper looked like, that's also another thing.

[Max Kellerman]

But really what you're saying is your evaluation of Cooper Flag so far is that he's already good, he's going to be really good. And that actually changes the calculation for the team about Kyrie and ad, because you look at Cooper Flag and you have to wonder coming out, is he good enough to build around? And you look at him now and go, yeah, that's a build, that's a foundational piece.

[Rich Paul]

But you can look at it one or two ways, you can say, yes, but we also have two play that we know are former champions, perennial All Stars, all NBA players when they're healthy or a lot. Exactly. With a young player already, that is proven somewhat that, hey, he's going to be really good down the road and next year maybe you get, I don't know, $50 million in production and he's only making X. That's kind of where you want to be at. And it would actually make a lot of sense given the fact that's what you want. But then you have to look at the positions as well. And so if you're saying Dallas is.

[Max Kellerman]

Incentivized to get draft capital for Anthony.

[Rich Paul]

Davis, it depends on which direction they want to go in. If you're saying if the goal is to start young, then you're starting with a really, really, really good piece in.

[Max Kellerman]

Cooper Flag a ton of draft capital.

[Rich Paul]

Well, the draft capital is we have our own draft pick this year, which right now they're 12th in the west or maybe 13th in the west after losing last night in Utah, I think they lost. But in that case, that pick could possibly become Darren Peterson, AJ the Bansta, Caleb Wilson. And you could still be sitting there with all that and an AD and a Kyrie, but then you start to.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, but AD will be 33 next year.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but it don't. I mean, it's. Again, people look at.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me ask you this, let me ask you this. As AD's agent, do you get nervous if you think Atlanta's a good spot for ad? Obviously, AD and Atlanta would be great for each other because Atlanta's loaded, they're ready now to win and going, and for the foreseeable future, they're set up. And if they add ad, Jesus. Right? Does it make you nervous? Like, oh, man, when Giannis says something like, I'm not asking for a trade, it signals maybe that actually the Milwaukee is working on something with Atlanta.

[Rich Paul]

Nothing makes me nervous. Do you know, where I'm from, can't get nervous. There's nothing in this industry that can make millions.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's not going to kill you. Right.

[Rich Paul]

So at the end of the day, let me rephrase.

[Max Kellerman]

Does it make you think, damn, no.

[Rich Paul]

No. Because talent always have options. Here's what I tell you. When you're thinking about a Giannis and an Anthony Davis, just like when Houston was thinking about Kevin Durant, when you trade or even think about trading for these type of level of talent type of players, it just means you feel like you can actually contend. That's what it does. And if you are able to get. I'm not saying who is and who isn't, but if you're able to get this level of talent, then it will put you in a better position than you once was. I can guarantee that. Right. And so that's the way you have to look at it. But no, I don't get. I don't. I don't. I don't get nervous about it. And I say that because, you know, you get people on social media.

[Max Kellerman]

Listen, I don't mean nervous. What I mean is, if you have things like I just put. I mean, this is just simple empathy, right? Like, you put yourself in someone's position. If I repped AD and I saw what Atlanta just did, I'd be like, oh, this is perfect. Then if I hear what Giannis says.

[Rich Paul]

I'm like, no, because. Okay, well, listen, if you unplug when you are an agent, your focus is one thing. How can I position my player to maximize his earning potential? That is it. I don't care.

[Max Kellerman]

That's not entirely true, Rich, because, for example, if I said to you, here's.

[Rich Paul]

The story now, you're not going a bad team.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause you want your players to win and be happy.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. But I'm thinking, you know, that's already baked in. Yes. I'm not. You can't.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the premise.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that goes back to the last trade, like. But again, no. But in some cases, if that's all you have, if your only market is a bad team, then you got to do what you got to do is part of it. But what I'm saying is, in this case, it's not a matter of what someone else is doing. The shift gonna be the shift, no matter what.

[Max Kellerman]

You're saying the AD has so much value when he's on the floor.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

That if it doesn't work out with Atlanta, there's New York. If it doesn't work out with Atlanta or New York, there's like a million other teams. Where? Or like basically every team in the league you put a D on.

[Rich Paul]

Not exactly. Not with this second apron. No, that's not true either.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

What I'm saying is, if you're just talking purely talent, these level of talent players helps any team, so they have options. Yes, but with the second apron, it gets harder. AD has a 62. Correct me if I'm wrong, million dollar player option. So in that case, there's no team that's going to have that cap space. And if they do have that cap space, then that means they don't have anything else on the table.

[Max Kellerman]

Porzingis is expiring. McCollum is expiring. And they have draft capital.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Which gives them a lot of flexibility.

[Max Kellerman]

How many other teams are there like that? Like where you could do.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not B for Cat.

[Max Kellerman]

You could do ad.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I'm not putting players involved. I'm just saying Atlanta has a lot of flexibility. The trade they just made gave them a lot of flexibility, which is why the basketball theories and the fantasy basketball trades and all these. I don't like to do any of that.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

But it is what it. All this stuff is public, so we can talk about it. But that puts them in a great spot to do whatever they need to do to help improve their team.

[Max Kellerman]

When we talk about Dallas, you're right about the timing, of course, and everything. But if, for example, nothing were to happen and I would assume that something will happen, they'll make moves. If nothing were to happen. I would love to see a healthy Kyrie, a healthy AD and Cooper Flag play together.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Well, then in that case, then there's some decisions to be made across the board.

[Max Kellerman]

Kyrie's want to chip with LeBron, AD's want to chip with LeBron and Cooper flag is putting up the best numbers at his age since LeBron.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Great.

[Max Kellerman]

Be a lot.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, I think there's a lot of positivity everywhere.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

My. My job is to look at all things and do and do what's best.

[Amazon Prime Announcer]

Prime's exclusive wild card playoff game is Saturday night. Jordan Love and the packers take on Caleb Williams and the Bears. Not a Prime member. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to stream the game. That's going to be part for the touchdown. NFC north rivals square off in the latest chapter of the NFL's oldest feud. The packers and Bears in Prime's exclusive wild card playoff game. Saturday at 7:30pm Eastern. Only on Prime. Sign up for a 30 day free trial today. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.comamazonprime for details.

[Max Kellerman]

There is a big NFL wild card weekend.

[Rich Paul]

Letters so big you need glasses.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich, you know I need readers.

[Rich Paul]

You need more than readers.

[Max Kellerman]

I like to be able to see it from back here.

[Rich Paul]

What? Yeah. I hope your phone letters is not like that. No, you have a protective screen on your phone.

[Max Kellerman]

I have the.

[Rich Paul]

Because you can see.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, I have. It's normal. But I do have that little. So when I drop it, it doesn't.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you gotta be Careful, man. Those letters is way too big. But go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

Really put my vision on. Blasted. No, I'm not playing detached retina.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not saying don't play with a detached retina. By the way, that's a real.

[Max Kellerman]

Too late for me, man. I already had the whole thing.

[Rich Paul]

That's a real thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. So, NFL wild card weekend. I gotta tell you, a lot of people are like, patrick Mahomes isn't there. And it takes. And neither, by the way, neither is Lamar Jackson or Joe Burrow. But without Mahomes, it takes like the wind out of everyone's sails in the afc. Like in terms of their enthusiasm. The exact opposite for me. I wouldn't. I don't know if every game this weekend is must see, but, like, what's the worst one? Rams at Panthers is maybe the worst worse. Well, because the Rams are big favorites.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but what if they. Well, I'm not going to say that.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, look, the Rams have been trending. Let's start there. This is the worst game on the schedule in terms of competitiveness and interest. The Rams were, most of the season. The best team in the NFL have been trending in the wrong direction. We know the way the NFL works. It doesn't matter who's the best team all season. It matters how you're playing toward the playoffs. That's like actually.

[Rich Paul]

Well, for someone that lives in la, you want as many playoff games and sofi as you can possibly get, which.

[Max Kellerman]

They're on the road. I know. And by the way, they're on the road. You know when people say it's hard to beat a team twice in the same season, part of that is because if you're playing them twice, a lot of the times it's because each team has a home game. But the Rams already lost to Carolina at Carolina, and Carolina's the home game is the home team. So the Rams have to travel to a place where they have already lost this season.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so who you picked? Okay, Ram, let's move on.

[Max Kellerman]

You like the Rams, too.

[Rich Paul]

We've been talking about having a shorter show and I realized what our issue is.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Rich Paul]

Our issue is you.

[Max Kellerman]

What?

[Rich Paul]

You. It is you.

[Max Kellerman]

How is it me?

[Rich Paul]

Because I go back and watch every show and I watch my takes versus your takes. Your takes are you go on these rants and the Giants and blah, blah, blah. And every time you do that, you're adding minutes. Now we lucky.

[Max Kellerman]

This is not like, you know what I'm going to do. I'm going to time It.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, well, let's go. Next thing you got the Rams.

[Max Kellerman]

Packers at Bears.

[Rich Paul]

Bears. I'm going for my brother Kevin Warren and the Bears. And I am being Mr. Bias. Well, we. No, I can't be Mr. Bias. I'm just going to go for the Bears. I'm going for the Bears.

[Max Kellerman]

The Bears should win the game because they're playing better recently and because the packers don't have Micah Parsons.

[Rich Paul]

Wait a minute. Is Jordan Love playing?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, well, then the packers have.

[Max Kellerman]

But Jordan Love also has not looked at. Look, look, right now, I would take the Bears quarterback. I would take. And. And the other thing is, in this rivalry, in recent years, when it's been a rivalry, the difference has been one team had, you know, Aaron Rodgers, and the other team had Jay Cutler. The team with Aaron Rodgers has the advantage. And before Aaron Rodgers, it was Brett Favre. I mean, it's been a long.

[Rich Paul]

The packers had come.

[Max Kellerman]

Not as much as Aaron Rodgers. Oh, so the packers have been the team that you would rather be rooting for than the Bears for a long time. So this is like a big deal for Bears fans.

[Rich Paul]

I want the Bears to be good. I think we need the Bears.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so we going Bears a big deal. Bears.

[Max Kellerman]

Unfortunately for the packers, if Parsons was playing, I would maybe feel differently, but he's not. Bills at Jags on Sunday. Ooh, that's the highest stakes game, maybe for me.

[Rich Paul]

See, I don't like that game. I don't like that game for the Bills.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

I don't like that game for the Bills.

[Max Kellerman]

You don't have a run defense.

[Rich Paul]

This is one of those things where.

[Max Kellerman]

You'Re on the road. And here's the thing about.

[Rich Paul]

How are the Bills on the road and they play so good all year.

[Max Kellerman]

Here's the thing about. Well, the Patriots is the answer to that. Here's the thing about the Bills, too. And Josh Allen, in terms of the stakes, like, at a certain point, the details get lost. You've been in the league. We have to talk football.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying, are you picking the Bills or the Jags? No.

[Max Kellerman]

You think I am taking the Bills, but that's not the point. We need to talk about the game.

[Rich Paul]

Our viewers got 55 TVs. They've heard everybody talking about the this and the that.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, no. We should talk about. You're not interested in the Bills and Jaguars.

[Rich Paul]

You're picking the Bills. I'm picking the Bills. What else? You want to talk about how great Josh Allen is?

[Max Kellerman]

There's a lot to talk about.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, let's go.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll let you go. Josh Allen.

[Rich Paul]

Just know you're on the clock.

[Max Kellerman]

Josh Allen is high stakes right now because Patrick Mahomes is not.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, this is a good topic.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. And the thing that people notice is that like me is that Josh Allen has not been on any deep playoff runs in his career.

[Rich Paul]

So you're saying. So how about we do this?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Josh Allen, this is your chance.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Do not screw this up. But.

[Max Kellerman]

But he has to go on the road against. That's part of the chance.

[Rich Paul]

That's part of it.

[Max Kellerman]

Against the team against.

[Rich Paul]

This is all part of that.

[Max Kellerman]

Has been playing extremely well this season.

[Rich Paul]

It really won't be a road game though because the Bill's mafia travels.

[Max Kellerman]

They do travel. So Bill's mafia is a real thing.

[Rich Paul]

And. And if I'm Josh Allen, he need as many sunny days he can get.

[Max Kellerman]

Here's the thing. So Trevor Lawrence also like we did. I talked about Trevor Lawrence.

[Rich Paul]

Trevor Lawrence don't have as much.

[Max Kellerman]

Trevor Lawrence. Lawrence came into the league with higher expectations than Josh Allen.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but Trevor. But since he's been in the league, he has not had a higher expectation than Josh Allen.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but he's. He may have been number one. He's finally started to fulfill.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but Josh Allen has more. Josh Allen has more to lose in this scenario.

[Max Kellerman]

No question. Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Stop rushing. Rushing do this is good stuff.

[Rich Paul]

Fanatic.

[Max Kellerman]

Trevor Lawrence has finally started to fulfill expectations and he's on overall probably the better team right now. And he's playing at home. There is. And Trevor Lawrence has not been good in the one playoff game he's played in. There is huge pressure on Trevor Lawrence in this game and there's huge pressure on Josh Allen.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, so who's. Who has the most pressure?

[Max Kellerman]

I think Josh Allen does and I think he will be Superman and that will be enough to get them the road win. But if he loses this game in the year that Mahomes is not even in the playoffs, when Burrow has at least been to a Super Bowl.

[Rich Paul]

This is my point I'm making. This is a bigger deal for Josh Allen than it is Trevor Lawrence.

[Max Kellerman]

But that's not the question. I agree with that. The point is it's a big deal for both quarterbacks. It's a huge deal.

[Rich Paul]

Of course it is. It's a playoff game. But what I'm saying is Josh Allen has Josh Allen.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm sorry, Rich, we have to move.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, fine.

[Max Kellerman]

49Ers at Eagles I'll get your. I'll get your prediction if you want to just do predictions because we don't have to spend a lot of time on it. The Niners. The Niners don't have a defense. I don't think they're going to beat the Eagles without a defense, particularly when I think the key player in the game is Lane Johnson. Throughout his career, when he has played, the Eagles have won, and when he has not, they're not nearly as good as. But it looks like he's going to play. So the line looks set. Except for maybe Jurgens at center. Hasn't been good. He has not been like, Kelsey groomed them and everything for this moment, but he has not been good. But if Blaine Johnson's there, I think they're okay. I think the Eagles defense is too much for a team without a defense. And Hertz plays best in his biggest moments. So I like. As much as I like Purdy, I like the Eagles here.

[Rich Paul]

I like the Eagles, too, and I really want the Eagles to win. So Michael Price is available on Monday because if they lose, he won't be. He will be no good.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

No good.

[Max Kellerman]

No, don't. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Don't Eagles have to win? Yeah, Eagles win.

[Max Kellerman]

You want to talk about a fanatic? I mean, I knew Carson Wentz was not good anymore and trending in the wrong direction because this dude would not stop sending me all 22. Like, you know, it's unbelievable.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Charges the Patriots. I'll give you my take. The Patriots.

[Rich Paul]

Is this a pickup?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, the Patriots have had a great season, but have had a notoriously bad, like, soft schedule, and they have not really faced great defenses.

[Rich Paul]

How do you get a soft schedule in the NFL?

[Max Kellerman]

Just happens just the way it breaks. Just the way it breaks. If you don't have a good record the year before and, you know, and then on top of that, whoever you're playing, when you're playing, if certain guys.

[Rich Paul]

Are hurt, why do the Browns never get a soft schedule then? Who? The Browns?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Well, the schedule never looks soft when you're not good.

[Rich Paul]

Since 1964, never had a soft schedule.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, first of all, it's your division. It's tough because you got the Ravens and the Steelers and Joe Burrow.

[Rich Paul]

There's no such thing as a soft schedule in the NFL.

[Max Kellerman]

But no, they haven't. The Patriots have not faced a real defense, and they're facing a real defense with the Chargers.

[Rich Paul]

But So out of 16, 17 weeks, you didn't face one real defense.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, not a charge they're in.

[Rich Paul]

A conference of their own.

[Max Kellerman]

Not like the Chargers defense. No, I mean, in the division, there aren't great defenses. Obviously not the Bills, you know, but Justin Herbert, like everyone's talking about Drake May as the MVP potentially, and he's had a great season. Justin Herbert has done what Josh Allen's done all year, but doesn't get the credit for it. He has. His offensive line, does not protect him at all. And somehow they're in the playoffs.

[Rich Paul]

Why doesn't he get the credit?

[Max Kellerman]

Because, you know, the Chargers Charger and so like he's made to look bad.

[Rich Paul]

I never heard that before.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but. And, but like Drake may win mvp. If we're just talking about who's better at quarterback right now. Justin Herbert's playing as well as mvp. Anybody? He's been unbelievable.

[Rich Paul]

You think Drake May's the mvp?

[Max Kellerman]

No, I think Stafford. That's.

[Rich Paul]

This year.

[Max Kellerman]

It's a great question. It's a great question. I think, like, who actually deserves MVP is probably Josh Allen. I don't think he's going to get it. So it'll be between May and Stafford and I think it's going to be close.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Who do you like, Patriots or Chargers?

[Rich Paul]

You picked the Patriots?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. You gonna take the Chargers just so we have something to talk about?

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm gonna take the Chargers so we can go to the game. Max, get your head in the game.

[Max Kellerman]

That's right. So far, it's all the same. It's all the same thing.

[Rich Paul]

Although I do like Robert Kraft, but I'm not going to New England to a game right now.

[Max Kellerman]

You're right. You know what? I should change it just cause I should, so that way I could root for the Chargers. I mean, I'll root for them anyway.

[Rich Paul]

Because put it this way, if the Patriots won, I wouldn't be upset. But if the Chargers won, do they have a game next week at home? If the Chargers win and they have a game at home, then that would be. That would make. If they don't have a game at home, then it don't matter.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Well, in that case, then I'm going with the Patriots.

[Max Kellerman]

The Rams. Hold on. Would the Rams have a game at home? Are the LA teams not gonna have any home games?

[Rich Paul]

This would be terrible.

[Max Kellerman]

No home games for la. They're both in the playoffs and even with wins in the first round, there would be no home games.

[Rich Paul]

God. Yeah. That's the worst. Yeah. Are you kidding me?

[Max Kellerman]

That nice suite all empty.

[Rich Paul]

Well, they should have a viewer party least Give us something.

[Max Kellerman]

Or we should have a viewer party.

[Rich Paul]

At the SOFI somewhere. Hmm.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, all right. Now we have something. That's why you can't rush through the NFL, Rich.

[Rich Paul]

I wasn't rushing through.

[Max Kellerman]

You're rushing through the NFL.

[Rich Paul]

I was rushing through your take because.

[Max Kellerman]

But that's the take is what we're doing here.

[Rich Paul]

But you can't be a fanatic while giving a take. Those are two separate things.

[Max Kellerman]

How am I being a fanatic? I'm trying to analyze it.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, well, we have another game.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, except let's. We can save that for next week. Cause it's for Monday. Because it's Monday night. Steelers and Texans is going to be Monday night. That's my favorite matchup.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. We're going to have a Monday show before that. We got to save something, leave something. Got to leave them wanting a little bit more.

[Rich Paul]

I'm so glad, because it probably would have took you another 15 minutes to get through that, and then we'd be sitting here and we go over. We have to pay for this stuff every time. It's like a concert every time you go over. They charge you for these things? No, they do. Who? What do you mean, who? Who? Charging production people, craft services. This. Like we get charged for this stuff. Max. You never been on a real set before.

[Max Kellerman]

Max Kellerman. Rich Paul. I guess. Game over.

[Rich Paul]

Have a great weekend.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, have a great weekend.

[Rich Paul]

Go Browns. I'm still.

[Max Kellerman]

Go Giants. Don't let Harbaugh wind up in Miami.

[Rich Paul]

No, Harbaugh.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, yeah, yeah. By the way, they got rid of McDaniel quick.

[Rich Paul]

That was all about Harbaugh. Of course that was all. And that doesn't make me feel good. It's a killer. That was all about Harbaugh.

[Max Kellerman]

But, my man, I think Stefanski's probably heading to New York and Harbaugh's heading to Miami. That kills me. I mean, like, Stefanski's coming to Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

What do you mean?

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know. You have to figure that out yourself.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what? If Harbaugh goes to Miami, I'll be happy for Steve and the team, but I would be sick for the Browns.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I don't know. Browns gonna have to find someone. I don't think it's going to be hardball.

[Rich Paul]

And you can't even say, like, you can't even say double the price because, I mean, between Steve and Jim, they both. Money is not an issue.

[Max Kellerman]

It's going to come down to money for Harbaugh. His market is what it is.

[Rich Paul]

I know.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I know, I know. All right, listen.

[Rich Paul]

But doesn't he like to snow?

[Max Kellerman]

I think he would prefer. I mean, everyone all. When you see the analysts all coming out, hey, I wouldn't rule out Miami. As soon as they get rid of McDaniel. It's cause people are hearing things. Usually 9 times out of 10 that.

[Rich Paul]

Makes me feel like it's done.

[Max Kellerman]

I hope not.

[Rich Paul]

That makes me feel like.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, nothing against Stefanski. Stefanski's really good. But what like what losing franchises need is a is like. It's like what Sean Payton did in the Broncos. You need to turn the whole thing around.

[Rich Paul]

Steve doesn't have a business school named after him in Michigan for nothing. He's a shrewd business guy.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, we'll see you on Monday. Must be 21 and over in present and select states for Kansas, an affiliation with the Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelp.com linema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New.