Max Kellerman (2:17)

No doubt.

Rich Paul (2:18)

But also when you take Manny Fresh's sound.

Max Kellerman (2:22)

Yep.

Rich Paul (2:22)

Because between Juveniles raps, Manny Fresh's sound, that freshness that you got. And then, like you said, I look at it, and Juvenile just had such a distinct Voice, too. And it was new. And so most people would. When he first came out with Hair, the single, you were kind of taken back by because he wasn't really rapping and, you know.

Max Kellerman (2:45)

Yeah.

Rich Paul (2:47)

And it was just one of those things. And it was weird. But when you saw the video, that visual, you was like, oh. And then, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. It just really put you in this space where you wanted to kind of bounce. But then when you got into the album, and I'm looking at it, you

Max Kellerman (3:05)

have legit 10 cuts that could be.

Rich Paul (3:07)

Yes. How to 10 go and ride With Me, Flossing Season, Ghetto Children, Follow Me Now. And then you go to, obviously, anything with the hot boys on it. Yes. Upt. Then he had back that ass up, which is undeniable. I don't care what. What country you in, what age you are.

Max Kellerman (3:29)

One of the best career in your life.

Rich Paul (3:31)

Undeniable.

Max Kellerman (3:31)

Right, Right. That's one of those things. I love those songs, Rich, where you think about a certain song and you're like. You imagine A and R going into the studio because, you know, A and R comes to the studio, people are working on stuff. Hey, this thing, you need to rework that. There's no A and R in who ever lived. Who could walk in on Back that Ass up and say, ah, we're gonna skip that. Could you imagine that? And then. And then Juvenile would be like, well, could you explain what you mean? And then A and R be there going like, look, I'm not a musician. I could just tell you what sounds good and what doesn't sound good doesn't sound good. Not possible for that to happen.

Rich Paul (4:05)

It's impossible for that. Exactly. And then he had a very sneaky, sneaky, sneaky feature at the end, which was so surprising to all. He had Jay Z on the. On the third. There was three high versions. He had Jay Z on the third high version, which was the remix.

Max Kellerman (4:26)

Can I give you another album like that, though, from

Rich Paul (4:31)

Blueprint 1.

Max Kellerman (4:32)

Ludacris's first record had so many singles on it. Basically ludicrous.

Rich Paul (4:37)

Yeah. By the way, I saw Ludacris perform.

Max Kellerman (4:40)

Yeah.

Rich Paul (4:41)

You forget how many monsters Ludacris had telling you. And he was a hell of a performer, too.

Max Kellerman (4:48)

So you asked how the weekend went. This predates the weekend, but I gotta say something quick. I know we got, like a minute. We got to start the show. I don't know how the working man does it. I had an appointment with the Geek Squad right so they're supposed to, they're supposed to install some stuff, whatever. Just like simple stuff like Apple TVs in one room and I'm still, you know, just about done setting up shop. Had someone at the house, they had to leave by 2. Appointment was between 10 and 2. They're not there. I let the person go. I show up at the house. Now I think I'm in and out. I call them, oh, they're going to be there by 4:30. I'm like, you know what for that I'll stay here. I just want to get it done. 4 o' clock comes, they're still not there. I call them back, blah, blah blah. Oh, somehow there was, wasn't good. No one was assigned. Da da da da da da. No one ever showed up even though I called twice the whole thing. How, okay, how does the working man do it? How does he like you can't take the day off of work and sit there all day and have not. How do they do it?

Rich Paul (5:47)

Let me tell you what you needed to do besides call me and I would have took care of you like I told you before, but you wanted you. You don't listen, you hard headed. But let me tell you what you should have done. This is what I used to do. So I would go into Best Buy, right? The closest one.

Max Kellerman (6:03)

All right.

Rich Paul (6:04)

And I would say I want an appointment with the Geek Squad. Okay, but are they here now? Is there somebody I can talk to now, now from the geeks not going

Max Kellerman (6:14)

into the Best Buy. I'm calling, I'm just telling you Best Buy and go in.

Rich Paul (6:18)

If you want to get things done properly, this is what you do. So now when the geeks, when, when the. You, you've already got a familiarity with the person. Oh, it's Max. So that person now knows it's Max. They're going to be on time and they know that you're going to. In addition they're going to tip. You're going to tip them.

Max Kellerman (6:37)

Well no, I can't, I can't. I'm not going to the. I'm not going to Best Buy and waiting on.

Rich Paul (6:41)

Okay, well you want to be big time, then get small time results. Me, I'm going.

Max Kellerman (6:48)

Is this what the players get from Rich Paul when they sign with Clutch?

Rich Paul (6:52)

I'm telling you.

Max Kellerman (6:52)

All right, you want to be big time. Let's start the show.

Rich Paul (6:55)

Let's start the show.

Max Kellerman (6:57)

This episode of Game over is presented to you by Loom. If your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel Stuck unstuck them. With Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and add summaries, action items and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. Replace unnecessary meetings, speed up approvals and onboard faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try loom today@loom.com. Rich for the first time since Patrick Ewing, I see a road to the championship for the New York Knicks.

Rich Paul (8:04)

Uh oh, I like the sound of that for you.

Max Kellerman (8:07)

I see a road. What's the road now? The road, boy, there's some obstacles in that road. It is a bumpy, winding, twisty road. It goes around mountains with no guard rails, all kinds of mess. Right. You got to. But. But there's a road. The Knicks beat the spurs at the Garden. It's one game. I know, I know, but they also beat them earlier in the season on in Vegas. Right. For the C. That's, that's once in a neutral site, once at home. We don't know how they do in San Antonio, but we know in a neutral site and at home they're capable of beating a motivated, healthy spurs team. Right. Spurs had an 11 game winning streak this time. Last time it was for the Cup. There was some intensity to the way they were playing. Knicks beat them both times. Let me tell you why, I feel like, and I want to hear your reaction to this. The Knicks have a shot if it's the spurs out of the west. And I think the spurs have a good chance to get out of the West. Right. So the Knicks match, you know, styles make fights. The Knicks in certain respects match up well with the Spurs. Not in terms of player for player matchup, in terms of style of play. Because the Knicks can shoot the ball. Their worst shooter is their shooting card. Right. Because they're shooting. Josh Hart is kind of like does the job of a power forward for the Knicks in the old days.

Rich Paul (9:27)

Yesterday.

Max Kellerman (9:27)

Right. But. Yeah, but, but technically he's a shooting guard. Right. When Josh Hart gets hot, they can beat Philly, for example. Right. When the Knicks are operating on, on all cylinders, firing on all cylinders. Because Cat can do the job at a certain level. OG can and Brunson can. The question comes down to is Josh Hart hitting shots and is Mikhail Bridges playing physically? Right. If those things are happening, it's a tough team to beat. And making shots. Of course.

Rich Paul (9:51)

Yes.

Max Kellerman (9:52)

So against the spurs, who like to play fast The Knicks play really good defense. That slows them up a little bit. But then on the other end of the floor, the Knicks take shots late in the shot clock. And when they're. When those two guys, Bridges and Josh Hart are hitting shots and they're doing it and the Knicks can chew time off the clock. It's like almost like a football team that's running the ball and having time of possession. They slow the spurs down. That styles matchup, they've done it twice this year. We'll see if they could do it four times in a seven game series. If it came down to it, I think the Knicks are unlikely to get out of the east because they don't think they match up great with some other Eastern Conference teams like Detroit, like the Celtics. If Tatum gets healthy, you know, like Philly maybe. And Cleveland. And Cleveland, yep. But if they could somehow get out of the east and the spurs get out of the west, you know, they're probably going to have to win one game somehow at San Antonio. They could for the first time. I'm not saying it's a high percentage, but Rich, it ain't zero. Is the first time since the Knicks, since I was a kid, that I would say it's not zero.

Rich Paul (10:59)

No, it's definitely not zero. But that road is like a figure eight. It's not like straight, nowhere near straight. Definitely more windy than I thought. But you're right, look, I think yesterday's game, two things happened. The Knicks brought a tremendous amount of physicality and they made their three point shots. I mean, Diora made shots, Josh Hart made shots. I think Mikal Bridges had about four or five threes. He made shots. And I thought, look, the result of the game, spurs were on 11 game win streak. I think they were in New York for about three days or whatnot.

Max Kellerman (11:38)

Yeah. Cause they had the Nets on Thursday. Yeah.

Rich Paul (11:41)

And they've been on the road for a while now. So I saw kind of tired legs. We talked about that with another team last week. And I also saw something that kind of, I believe let the Knicks off the hook yesterday, which was one they didn't. Although Vasile made some shots at times they didn't shoot the ball well. Yesterday looked a little tired, but also they didn't play fast. And I think where the spurs could really beat you, especially a team like the Knicks, is you gotta, you gotta play faster. I thought they could have played a little bit faster.

Max Kellerman (12:17)

But don't you think some of that was how the Knicks were playing? That's why that's why I say a styles matchup because the Knicks, it's one thing to slow down a team on one end of the court but it's kind of, that's why I make the football analogy because in, in football if you're facing a high powered offense and you want to slow down the game, it's time of possession. The Knicks kind of are a time of possession team on the offensive end, right. They can take those shots, chew up clock before they take shots.

Rich Paul (12:44)

So that's. But they also beat The spurs to every 50, 50 ball. I, I thought, I thought Carl Anthony Town's done a great job of you know, even if he didn't get the rebound which he was fighting up under, under the basket yesterday, he got his hands on, on, on, on tip balls and, and, and, and under the rebounds under the basketball. He, you know he was a. And then Mitchell Robinson comes in and, and he's grabbing you know, boards, offensive rebounds and Mitchell Robinson is a big time second chance points and things of that nature. So I thought the Knicks done an unbelievable job bringing that grit making shots. But also on the other end the spurs, they didn't put Alvarado or Brunson in into any ball screens to exploit the mismatches. So again a lot of this has to do with it's one game.

Max Kellerman (13:37)

I think this two games now.

Rich Paul (13:39)

Two games. I was going to say I think the Knicks do match up very well with the spurs and sometimes you just get that like you get those matchups. I think for both teams it comes down to shooting. I think the Spur, I think the, the Knicks have in recent past had guys shoot the ball a little bit better as a unit. If the spurs can shoot the ball well from the outside, they're going to be tough to beat. I think they're in the lower half of or lower tier of the league in terms of team Three point shooting.

Max Kellerman (14:12)

Right.

Rich Paul (14:12)

If their guys is making shots, Kelvin's making shots. If Dear is making shots, Castle's hitting a few. We know what Vassell and Champagne could do and, and Harrison Barnes, you know those guys are pretty good making the three but I thought they could have played a little bit faster yesterday but, but I don't think you're wrong about that in terms of just the matchup. I was at the game in, in, in Vegas and it really came down to the Knicks just shot it better.

Max Kellerman (14:39)

You know you, you brought up Robinson. Robinson is a playoff performer for all the things he doesn't do well, shoot free throws, whatever. He is a Big time playoff level, like playoff performer. When the lights are bright, this dude plays out of his mind. I love Mitchell Robinson. You saw it in the playoffs last year. But what the reason I say it's Heart and Bridges is when you look at each starter on the Knicks and by the way, if they still had, you know, they had to give up Divincenzo in order to get Cat. But man, if somehow they figured a way to get that guy on the team with Cat, like that's kind of what they're missing right now. But if, when you look at each position, Brunson, his level as a guard, you know, og, whatever you want to call him, a small forward, a powerful whatever you want to call og what he does and what Cat does, they do at a certain level. Either all star year in and year out or very close to it level. And, and Bridges, who they traded five firsts for even though I know they weren't high first, but still. And, and Hart, even though they're really good players, they're good NBA players. Josh Hart is not to shooting guards what Jalen Brunson is to point guards or what Cat is to a big, you know, Mikhail Bridges is, is not to his position. I don't think quite what OG is to his even though he plays similar positions. The point is when those two guys, when, when Hart and Bridges who are good players, play their best basketball, the Knicks are really a complete team and have a chance if they match up with a team like the Spurs.

Rich Paul (16:10)

I think normally when you win, you win offensively with great guard play, you win defensively with, with great wing. Defensive play like perimeter. Yeah, you, you, you win with high IQ from all but specifically your bigs because the difference between a big grab and a rebound and going right up, holding the ball high or kicking the ball out versus a big grabbing a rebound, not really having a clean look at it and bring the ball down and get stripped. That could be. That's such a timely, important decision.

Max Kellerman (17:00)

Differing and losing difference between winning and losing.

Rich Paul (17:04)

Yeah, but I think people put so much into the statistics and it be simple plays, right? It be it. It be simple plays that you see you be like, well that's not a championship level play or high IQ play. And when you have multiple low IQ decision making possessions during a game, I don't care if it's a regular season game on a Tuesday night or game seven, it's just so difficult for you to win. And then obviously the shooting is still going to come down to the shooting.

Max Kellerman (17:38)

So that's The Knicks, right. All the way to the other coast. The Lakers. See, I think the Knicks to me last night, yesterday I saw like, oh, the Knicks do have a path to the title. It requires the spurs getting out of the west, the Knicks somehow navigating their way through the East. Probably they need to get lucky with an injury on the other team somewhere, you know, whatever. And those two matching up and the Knicks playing their best ball. It's not impossible. Then I go to the Lakers. You mentioned basketball IQ. Luka has a high basketball IQ, obviously LeBron has a high basketball IQ, obviously Austin Reaves has a high basketball IQ. Obviously those are three best players, all high basketball IQs. But I wouldn't say the Knicks play a high IQ brand of basketball. And they don't look like the. There's a path to the championship this year for the Lakers to me and J.J. redick got.

Rich Paul (18:32)

You said the Knicks don't play a high ice cube.

Max Kellerman (18:33)

So I said Lakers, Lakers. I said the Knicks.

Rich Paul (18:36)

Oh, you said the Knicks. But you, you meant to my fault.

Max Kellerman (18:38)

I meant the Lakers go to the other coast. Yeah, I'll do that from time to time. If by time to time you mean like every day I'll confuse some names. The Lakers don't have a path to the championship for me this year. And J.J. redick got in Lucas face. You know the stuff I've been saying about Luka complaining on and now other and other people are saying it too. Complaining on every call, not playing any defense, etc. And I blame it on the curse of the gifted. And I, and I compared Luca to a quarterback who can scramble. If your short term incentive is to always pick up the first down, then you'll never learn pocket awareness. Right? If your short term incentive is to always create a high percentage shot, since Luka can get that shot whenever he wants, then the ball never moves, it never turns into a team game. So JJ got in Luka's face and reportedly it's about the flot, the constant complaining on every call. And by the way, I would imagine on the defensive effort, I think it kind of, you know, I was wondering when that was gonna happen. I was wondering if that was happening behind closed doors because at some point that's necessary for this Lakers team. Rich. And I know you have to be circumspect about how you, what you say about this right now, because anything you say is interpreted through the lens of, of. Well, if it's critical of Luca that maybe he's looking out for LeBron, this is not you Saying it. This is me saying it. If you don't want to comment on it because you don't want to add fuel to the, to the fire of like nonsense about constant like, oh, actually that's rich position thing. I get it. But that's my feeling is that if this hasn't happened yet, then this was long overdue because Luca cannot play this way and the Lakers be successful.

Rich Paul (20:28)

Yeah, no, and thanks for saying that, Max. And obviously, you know how people clip things and the stupidity of people sometimes just looking for something to say anything about anything. But the reality of it is I've been around this game a long time and obviously, you know, never played the game on this level. Even though in my mind I thought I did, but the tape said different. But, but I, I think anytime you have, I didn't see the play, by the way, I didn't see what you're talking about. But just being around for so long, you know, that leads to a healthy relationship because that means that there's a profound respect for the player and there should be a profound respect for the coach. And I, I think it ultimately, ultimately leads to a healthy relationship. I've been around enough coaches to see them challenge the star players. Dean Smith did it, Mike Krzyzewski did it. In colleges, Tom. John Thompson did it. Tom Izzo does it all the time. We know what Bobby Knight did to the best players. When you go to the NBA. I've seen it from spo, I've seen it from Tyron Lou. I've seen it from guys like Pat Riley and Steve Kerr, all championship Jackson coaches, Phil Jackson. So that's, you know, I think when, when things happen in such a media robust environment that we're looking for the drama of it all and we want to talk about the drama of it all. But the reality of it is, hey, these guys are getting paid a lot of money to do a high level job. The fact that on a get of a night that, that there's care shown and there's passion shown and there's a competitive nature shown, I think that's healthy.

Max Kellerman (22:12)

Can I tell you something? I, I, so there may be an impression or maybe I'm giving an impression that I'm anti Luka and maybe I have been recently because you know, if you go to a Lakers game and you see that kind of effort, you're like, come on man. Right, like it's that, that's not, that's not how, how it's supposed to be done. But let me say two things about that One, if you're like the, the complaining every call is annoying, but if it didn't affect his defense, for example, I wouldn't care about it as much. Right? It's kind of like in boxing, you want to, you want to keep your hands high to pick off shots, right? For defense. But actually the best way to do that is keep your elbows tucked. You keep your elbows tucked, where your hands gonna be. Not only are your elbows protecting your body, but your hands will be up. And so that's what I would say about Luka's complaining. To me, whatever. Optics are no good and it's annoying and everything. But the main thing, the main reason Luka should stop that is because it's like keeping your elbows tucked. Luka, if you knock that off, your defense will immediately get better. You're not gonna be a step behind, but your hands will be high cause your elbows are tucked. You'll be back on defense. Cause you're not sitting there complaining to the ref. That's one thing. The next thing is I should, I should say this and, and like. Cause I could relate to Lucas complaining on every call. Rich, When I drive in la, I'm mad all the time. I'm pissed off all the time. Because why? Not only, but the reason for the traffic. Someone's in the far left lane, but they're not using as their passing lane. They're going the same speed as the person in the right in the right lane. Even if you're going past the speed limit. That's not the point. The far left lane is to pass cars. If you're blocking someone behind you, you're not using it properly. The light turns green, no one goes. They're on their phone. Right. It annoys me, people merging from both sides with no regard for like, you know, because you have these five lane freeways and people are merging left and right at the same time and they're just not paying attention. There's a million reasons why I'm stuck in traffic and, and I'm mad all the time cursing out people in my car all the time. Instead of at a certain point, like, Max, this is how it's going to be every day, right? You can't get aggravated about this every day. Like, besides the fact that I'm sure it's compensatory and whatever else, like, there's another real reason underneath that I'm doing it. The fact is that's the way it is. So I empathize with Luca, I sympathize with Luca, because I can imagine he's thinking, no, I really should have gotten that call in a lot of these calls. But. And I'm not expecting that part to change overnight. But damn, Luca, you got to stop with the complaining. Both because you got to get back on defense and because if it's this way on every play in your mind, what's the point in complaining? Just. Just. You got to deal with it. You got to live with it. This episode's brought to you by ZipRecruiter. It feels like hiring could take an absurd amount of time and effort, right? Like trying to get drafted into the big leagues or spending months, years training to build up your speed and strength and agility. Or you know how some commercial breaks feel like they take forever. The hiring process can feel just as agonizing. But good news for you, when it comes to hiring, you have the equivalent of a fast forward button. You have ZipRecruiter. Try it free at ZipRecruiter.com/game over. ZipRecruiter is ranked the number one hiring site based on G2, most likely. Because ZipRecruiter is so good at what it does, you can find qualified candidates for your role in minutes. And if one really stands out, you can get access to their contact info. To reach out and connect, use ZipRecruiter and save time hiring four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate. Listen to this within the first day. And if you go to ZipRecruiter.com gameover right now, you can try it for free. It's the best price there is. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com gameover ziprecruiter the smartest

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Max Kellerman (26:53)

Rich, I need to ask you something about a team in the West. Okay. I think you and I came to a kind of consensus, or we at least agreed. The legit title contenders. Let's leave the east alone. Just focus on the West. The legit title contenders in the NBA out of the Western Conference are okc, Denver, San Antonio, even though they're way ahead of schedule. And then I thought the Rockets if Van Vliet came Back, right. You got him on the phone at an. On an early show that we had and he said he's working hard and da da da. But without Van Vliet and especially with whether or not it's true, the KD Burner stories and what was said, everything, I don't see it with the Rockets right now. But there may be another team. And the reason I ask you this is both because they've won three in a row. They won six of seven and the T Wolves just beat the Nuggets. Okay. They also have 1, 2. Their best player is a dude who you said a couple weeks ago is leading the pack among the best players in the NBA. And I'm not saying that you said definitively he is. We both agree that depending on the night, the last guy you saw you go that guy. Right. Because there are a lot of. It's close at the top, but still they have one of those guys in Aunt Edwards, are the T Wolves a legit contender in the Western Conference right now? A title contender?

Rich Paul (28:20)

Oh, that's a tough question. Look, they have won six or seven. I kind of put the T Wolves in the same bucket as I put the 76ers on the east. You just don't want to play them in the playoffs. You don't want to play them in the first round because they're hard out. And when you have a guy that can close like a Edwards, it puts you in a tough spot. When Nas Reed has it going. DiVincenzo is tough as nails. We know that Julius Randle gonna play the bully ball and could put 30 on you any night. And then you have the defensive presence in a, in a, in a Rudy Gobert that's. That's tough to beat on any given night. I think where there's a little bit of a fall off is in the bench play they haven't been able to rely on. Don't forget Jaden. You know who was a. Who was a. A solid. As solid. As solid of a wing defender as you can get, right? And so they have the pieces. But when you get to the playoffs and you have to shorten the rotation to nine max. Eight preferably. You know, who are those guys? We know what Nas Reed can do coming off the bench, but

Max Kellerman (29:48)

little a little. Their bench is not a little like long in terms of quality at the end of the playoff rotation as some others Rich that that may be but actually the way you just broke it down, I thought you were going to say they're not really title contenders and I was going to agree with you, but I think you just talked me into the idea that maybe they are title contenders.

Rich Paul (30:11)

Well, look, they've been the way the

Max Kellerman (30:12)

Knicks are, like, they gotta. They gotta play their absolute best ball. And it's not impossible.

Rich Paul (30:17)

The great path. And you need. No, it's not impossible, but you also. You need the matchups.

Max Kellerman (30:22)

You need.

Rich Paul (30:23)

You need the matchups to fall in your favor.

Max Kellerman (30:25)

Right?

Rich Paul (30:26)

Right. You don't want to have to play Denver and okc. You want to be able to kind of get around some of those things. And by the way, that's for any team. You're trying to have the least toughest pathway to the finals as you can possibly have. And sometimes when you get close, you may decide, you know what? We rather be two than one because one has to play four, you know, or the one versus Shaping up so

Max Kellerman (30:54)

interesting in the NBA, in the playoffs this year, it's so much less predictable than it used to be. There are many more teams with a legit shot to win the title than there used to be. And on top of that, who's going to be the next face of the league? Like, if the spurs run the table and Wemby dominates, boom, he's the face of the league.

Rich Paul (31:11)

Yeah, he's in the drawers.

Max Kellerman (31:13)

If they're healthy. And Joker does it again. Not only. It's like, oh, my God, where's Jokic all time? He's like, among the very, very greatest. If Edwards somehow upsets the apple cart and they win the whole thing, we start thinking about him. An American player who plays above the rim, who can shoot, who can defend, does all these things. We. There's so much at stake in these playoffs.

Rich Paul (31:34)

There's so much. Yeah, like, I agree. I, I think the. The wolves have two guys that can get you 30 any night.

Max Kellerman (31:41)

Yep.

Rich Paul (31:41)

The Sixers have three guys that can get you 30 any Night. And you. And they both have closers that definitely hit tough shots. Could win the series. Yeah, could hit tough shots. Those timely shots is what matter. And I. I do want to see the backup point guard play for the Wolves. I know Bones Highland who. Shout out to Bones Highland who had. Who's come in and turn his. His career around, which is a good sight to see. But as you know, I think they went back and got Mike Conley because in the playoffs, those type of things matter. You have to. You have to. You really have to honor possessions so much in the playoffs, and, and the game slows down.

Max Kellerman (32:25)

You.

Rich Paul (32:25)

Your execution rate has to be pretty high because you may win a game and then a team scheme for you the next game. So now it's a 1:1 series.

Max Kellerman (32:39)

You have to make adjustments. That's why you need of. You know, you mentioned Conley, veteran players who've been there before and who can make constant adjustments to the adjustments that the, that the other coach basically is making for them to them. By the way.

Rich Paul (32:52)

I know st. Yeah. Styles make fights, you know that make fights.

Max Kellerman (32:56)

Been saying it. I want to go back to the east for a second, Rich. Not this year, but next year. This year we already know. If Tatum gets healthy, Celtics are a problem. Philadelphia is a problem. If Embiid stays healthy, Detroit could be a problem. At least in the East, Detroit is a problem. Right. The Knicks, if things are working out well, like if they're playing their best ball, could be a problem. The Cavs could be a problem. They have. They have two guys who can make plays in the, in the backcourt and two guys who can defend in the front court. They got 48 minutes at all of. Of playmaker plus big defender throughout the game, let alone when they're all playing together. So that. But there's a team in the east who is set up for next year and you could see him coming this year. I don't think it's going to happen. Set up for next year in the Atlanta Hawks and they made a trade for a player who you and I, at least I was, I'll speak for myself, critical of in Golden State in Jonathan Kaminga. They traded.

Rich Paul (33:56)

I wasn't. Yeah, you were.

Max Kellerman (33:56)

Porzingis and his expiring contract for Kaminga. You weren't. I was, but the reason I was is cause you were talking about starring in your role and also high IQ players. And when I looked at Kaminga, I saw a guy unwilling to. To star in his role and a guy who wasn't showing a high iq. I'm not saying he doesn't have one. I'm saying he wasn't showing it on the warriors, at least not to me. So they move him for basically salary relief. And maybe Porzingis can help Steph at some point this year. Kaminga. It's only two games, Rich. It's only two games. He's been balling out. He's been playing really, really well. And I know he's heading back to the bench now because, you know, JJ's coming back and all this. He's getting. He's going to the bench. But Kaminga, if he continues to play like this, I think guys like me who Were critical of him in Golden State. Have to reevaluate and say, well, how much of that was Kaminga and how much of that was Steve Kerr? Great, all time, great coach, love Steve Kerr, but how much of that was Kerr and Golden State? Right. Like there's something's got to give there.

Rich Paul (35:06)

Yeah. I always say the most important thing for guys coming out in the draft is not where you go in the draft in terms of your number that you're picked. It's primarily the fit, like you getting to a team where you fit that team. And in Kaminga's case, many people thought he would go before he went at 7. So when he gets there at 7, I can almost guarantee you I wasn't in the war room, but I can almost guarantee you Golden State's like, oh, wow. Like we had to take this guy, gotta take him.

Max Kellerman (35:39)

Best player on the board.

Rich Paul (35:39)

He's the best guy on the board right now. But sometimes that don't mean that it's going to be the best fit for either the team and, or the player. And you hope that you can kind of smooth things over, but sometimes it doesn't always work that way. But I also think it's also good for a young player to have a little adversity because when you coming in the draft and you're coming from a place where I'm the top player, you know, I'm going in this top position, there's a lot that comes with that. And then there's a lot of conversations surrounding you and you may think that, hey, this is going to be an easy journey, this is going to go like this, I'm going to waltz right into a max contract, so on and so forth, and things change. Now. The beauty of it is things change with you having still opportunity in front of you. Sometimes things change and there's no opportunity in front of you. So it all is all based upon how you're looking at your situation and how you plan to make good on your new opportunity. And in Kaminga's case, look, I think he has a great opportunity in front

Max Kellerman (36:51)

of him on a team that could be a problem next year. Atlanta could be a problem.

Rich Paul (36:56)

Honestly, who leads the front office there in Atlanta currently today? He was in Golden State when they drafted Kaminga originally. Right. And so there's some familiarity. That familiarity there. I don't think that you can say for. I don't think that you can say, hey, there wasn't something gain from his stint because you still was in that locker room with Clay and Dre and Steph and, and, and, and the other Dre, Andre Iguodala. But Rich, they won a championship.

Max Kellerman (37:30)

No question. Kaminga is set up real well. And it's two games. We'll see how it looks going forward. And Atlanta set up well. But what I'm saying is whatever, however, whatever the problem with the fitness and that, I blamed Kaminga a lot for what went wrong in Golden State, and I didn't think he would be a successful player on the level. I thought maybe once upon a time he would be. But what I'm saying now is if this new evidence continues right then the question becomes why couldn't Golden State help more to make it work like this? It seems to me that if you have an athletic player who can do the things that Kaminga can do, then the team should be able. It takes two. Like, the team also has to contribute to creating an environment where they can use whatever Kaminga brings to the table.

Rich Paul (38:16)

Yes, but I always think we think about who to blame all the time. It's not about who to blame. Sometimes situations just aren't fruitful for either. For, For. For neither. Now, you could talk.

Max Kellerman (38:30)

Who do you blame?

Rich Paul (38:30)

I don't. You know, I can't get into.

Max Kellerman (38:32)

Once they're not fruitful, I need to know who to blame. Rich.

Rich Paul (38:35)

No, I just, you know, look, I, I think, I think, Look, I've been. I've seen guys in situations that wasn't as fruitful. Prime example. I mean, look, we've seen guys get drafted by teams years before, didn't work out for those guys. They get moved and things open up. Like, we've seen that with, with, with several guys, for that matter.

Max Kellerman (38:59)

I mean, I guess it could be a situation where, let's say this happens and Kaminga's great the next couple years. If Steve Kerr is asked about it a couple years from now, he could say something like, I don't think maybe we weren't. And he wasn't in the place, in the right place at that point in our franchise in his career to make that work, blah, blah, blah. But I, I do think if this continues, it's not all on Kaminga. Part of it had to be on Golden State. If

Rich Paul (39:28)

you continue, let's think, let's, let's, let's help people understand how they got there. They got there because Steph was injured. So you have this, this bad year

Max Kellerman (39:38)

where normally golden opportunity man David Robinson gets hurt. You wind up with Duncan.

Rich Paul (39:42)

Yeah. Yes. But normally this team is, is. Well, that happened with, with, with the Wiseman.

Max Kellerman (39:49)

Yeah, with Wiseman. Yeah, sorry, with Wiseman.

Rich Paul (39:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But. But normally more similar. That team is vying for a championship and it's very difficult to develop a young player.

Max Kellerman (39:59)

You can't develop Kaminga as a crazy sixth man on that team. You couldn't figure something out. They could figure something. I'm just saying if this continues with Kaminga, for me, in my mind it was like 100% or very close to it on Kaminga. And now if it's two games, maybe it was on Kaminga and. And the future will show that. But I'm just saying now I'm starting to question immediately after two games, like now maybe some of this is on Steve Curry, Golden State.

Rich Paul (40:27)

No, I don't. I don't point the finger at anybody. I think that. I think he's going to be better off going forward in his career from going through that adversity and being in that locker room and being at those practices and being a part of, you know, playoff runs and things of that nature is really going to help him going forward. But you're also missing a team. Who? The Charlotte Hornets. The Charlotte Hornets has been a bright spot of late and you know, but what Rick Sno and Gabe as ownership and what Jeff and. And Charles Lee, you know, executive and coach are doing, they're getting those guys to buy in. They're playing a better brand of basketball. Khan as a rookie has been unbelievable.

Max Kellerman (41:09)

Do you think. Do you think Khan is going to be rookie of the year because of Cooper's injuries?

Rich Paul (41:13)

He very well could or by the

Max Kellerman (41:15)

way, take away the injuries. Is he just rookie of the year?

Rich Paul (41:18)

Look, normally the number one pick, if it's close, normally gets denied if it's close.

Max Kellerman (41:26)

Sure.

Rich Paul (41:26)

We've only seen. I've only seen one co. Rookie of the year. That was Jason Kidd. And who was it? Jason Kidd and Grant Hill. Who won? Who was it in Nicole? I know it was Jason Kidd and somebody else. I could not. It was definitely Jason Kidd.

Max Kellerman (41:50)

It's. Yeah. Grant Hill. Yeah. Yeah.

Rich Paul (41:52)

Okay. So, you know, but normally that person gets denied, but in the event that Charlotte makes the playoffs play in whatever you want to call it, and the way he's playing, he's the fastest rookie to. To. He's the fastest to what, a thousand three pointers made or something like that.

Max Kellerman (42:16)

And, and Rich, the other thing is because he shoots it. Cooper flag doesn't shoot it well yet now it looks like he will shoot it well eventually, right? Although we've seen guys like Luca come in And I, I keep waiting for like the outside shot to get a little better. When you create your own shot, it's harder to hit. That's what makes Steph Curry so incredible is he's getting his own shot and then hitting it like that. Not as it's more difficult than let's say what Clay does, which is a different skill. It's like it's a similar skill, but there's a difference there. Right.

Rich Paul (42:45)

When you don't have to dribble, Clay is more of a catch and shoot.

Max Kellerman (42:49)

So Cooper flags, gets his own shot. You expect that to get better. But right now it's not just the Canipple is, may be the best shooter in the league already. It's that he's a multidimensional player. He's not just a shooter. He can defend, he can do things. Right.

Rich Paul (43:05)

He was good at Duke.

Max Kellerman (43:07)

Yeah, right. He was good.

Rich Paul (43:08)

These guys are.

Max Kellerman (43:09)

The fact that those two guys were teammates and, and you know, I mean they should have, they should have won every game in college.

Rich Paul (43:14)

I don't know. Listen, to answer your question, yes, he could win rookie of the year. What I do know about both of those two young guys, they're going to be really good for a very long time.

Max Kellerman (43:24)

For a long time.

Rich Paul (43:25)

And, and I think Charlotte, don't you listen, you can wake up if, if, if Charlotte makes one or two other tweaks because you forget they still got bridges. Lamelo's been playing a better brand of basketball. Brandon Miller's a stud at, at the two guard spot. A very, a very underrated pickup, especially defensively is the kid James that also was on that Duke team with, with Wakan and Cooper and, and come on. Then a very sneaky trade at the trade deadline. Bringing in Kobe White there.

Max Kellerman (44:07)

Listen, yeah, this is, you know, Charlotte, they got, they got a lot of, they got a lot of backcourt players who can hurt you.

Rich Paul (44:16)

I'm just saying it's all about Charlotte's next step is about buy in, but go ahead.

Max Kellerman (44:20)

Right? Yeah. And Canipple is. Yeah, I think if he wins it, it's going to be because Cooper missed too many games.

Rich Paul (44:26)

If those young guys decide, yeah, Cooper, those young guys decide to buy in and play high level basketball. Like if Lamelo and Brandon and those young guys that's been there, you know, once you get paid, etc. If they decide that we're going to play very high level, high iq, execute through, in and throughout, pay attention in film sessions, you know, really focus on the road and what they've Been doing this stuff. I'm not in their locker room but I've seen enough games if they decide that this flip, this switch gets flipped on, they're gonna be really good in Charlotte, I'm telling you. But it's gonna take that.

Max Kellerman (45:12)

Can I. Let me say something about that. And then I want to get, I want to get your comments. I want to get your thoughts on Byron Scott's comments for Get Rich Quick about how. What it's like to play in the old days. But before we do rich I'll just say it's interesting. You want buy in from players but a lot of times you have to put. You're asking them to put the cart before the horse and they don't want to do that. And I'm reminded of. I'm sure I saw this on reels because I doom scroll sometimes at night before I go to sleep that there's the famous expression experiment with, with rats where they put rats in water and wanted to see how long it would take for them to drown. And after 15 or minutes or a half an hour or something, they drowned right Then they repeated the experiment but they, right before they were going to drown they took them out and dried them off and let them rest and then they put them back in. And if you do that and then put them back in, the rat will swim instead of for a half an hour or whatever it was or 15 minutes. They'll. They'll swim for a couple days. Like in other words, once they have an idea that there's hope, they will try much harder when it feels like hopeless. So, so when you add a guy like con canipple to a team then guys who you're asking for buy in sometimes that are like that doesn't, you know, I don't see it. When they put this guy on the team maybe there's a better chance that you get buy in because they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. They can see oh actually there's hope that if we do this we can actually win because I'll tell you this knipple is good enough where if they don't buy in some dudes will wind up getting moved. I think they'll.

Rich Paul (46:52)

He's. I look at it like when you were in doing a school project and everybody wants to fool around and then the guy gets added to the school project that actually is an honor student that actually wants to study and, and, and actually execute on a school project. I look at it that way.

Max Kellerman (47:12)

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Max Kellerman (48:20)

more@applecard.com you finally got that jacket off, Rich. You were fighting.

Rich Paul (48:27)

Fighting. I felt like I was fighting Mike Tyson.

Max Kellerman (48:31)

You finally got it off. Now you're more comfortable now. Okay, very good.

Rich Paul (48:34)

I'm definitely more comfortable.

Max Kellerman (48:36)

It's time for get rich Quick. This is what Byron Scott said. You're saying it's easier to play in the 80s versus today. The game was so much more physical back then. Byron Scott said you can say the score wasn't as high, but we had 12 to 15 teams averaging over 100 points per game. The pace was just as fast as it is today. We played 94ft. They play 60ft today. Because everything is predicated on shooting threes. You're not going up and down like we did. As far as physicality, it's not even close. I just thought it was laughable coming from one of the greatest to ever play the game. He's responding to LeBron James saying that the game has changed. Your thoughts, Rich Paul on the eras.

Rich Paul (49:11)

I mean, you know, I think everybody's gonna be biased to the era that they played in. You know, I, I, I know what it looks like. I can't tell you what it was like because I never played, you know, in, in an NBA game. But I think coming from someone who has actually played and has played in multiple eras, it, I don't know about the word laughable. I. You could, you could. There's a way where you could disagree with somebody without it coming off as what I would say would be offensive.

Max Kellerman (49:45)

Disrespectful.

Rich Paul (49:45)

Disrespectful. Disrespectful yet. Exactly. Disrespectful. There's a way that you can say things without it coming off as disrespectful. And actually that's going to lead me into my get rich quick. Respect, in my opinion is one of those foundational pillars. And I think respect is something that you should lead with as a human. Every human should lead with respect. And especially when someone has earned that either through their productivity or their character. With that being said, and I think for me, I was always taught to respect my elders, to respect everyone, but definitely to respect my elders. But then, you know, some days I sit there and I think and I see things and I'm like, but what about when your elders do things or say things that actually warrants disrespect? And it's been a lot of that going on. But then that's a very slippery slope because when you get to the position that we are Max, you're, you're in, I'm in. We've got here, we work very hard to get there and others have too. You got to be very careful because you get to a point to where you can say things or do things that knock you off your square. And also in that case, if you knocked off your square, then that means you've been tricked out of your spot. And if you're tricked out of your spot, what happens is you can say or do something that looks or feels good in the moment, but looks foolish and probably is foolish and lives foolishly forever. And so I think in other words,

Max Kellerman (51:49)

one of the best arguments for being respectful of people, including people who disagree with you, is self interested argument which is it's, you are doing a disservice to yourself.

Rich Paul (52:03)

Yeah.

Max Kellerman (52:03)

At the very least in terms of the optics when you are disrespectful toward other people.

Rich Paul (52:09)

Yeah. And I think we've seen this in several different spaces. I think we've seen it a lot now and in shows and comments and things like that. You know, it's just, it's a weird time in that ca. In this, in this space now. But also I'll, I just, I go back to, to, to just that like there's, there's, there's a respect that should be had and especially, especially when, when commenting on things that one you can, you can easily just, just disagree with without it being offensive. And then also Two, if you're going even further in depth about something, then if you're doing that without having true context or giving true context, then that's also a disservice to the situation. And so I'm going to always take the high road with things. And we didn't even get into the other part that was said. I don't think it's worth it. But ultimately, you know, those things are important. I think as we go forward and as we just try to be great examples in the positions that we are.

Max Kellerman (53:26)

I have two comments to about what you just said. 1. What Byron Scott, what LeBron said, and what Byron Scott said about the different eras to me are both like. I think it misses the point. The point about eras is, you know, okay, people think evolution is about the survival of the fittest. No, it's about the survival of the best adapted. It's very simple. If you are adapted to a given environment so that you can survive, then you're able to pass on your genes, right? Like the environmental forces create pressure that the best adapted to those environments are the ones who survive and live on. Same thing in the NBA. The players best adapted to a given era are the players who do best in that era, right? Like, so when people say, oh, it's harder in this era because like, for example, in boxing, once upon a time, the most important thing was that you didn't cut very easily. You could take a hell of a shot, your bones weren't brittle, and you could fight three times in a week, right? That was like 100 years ago, then 100 years later. The most important thing is that you can focus intensely twice a year for 12 rounds, right? And it's a different skill set. Now, some people are just kind of their, their makeup is such that they could have competed in multiple eras. Some people, maybe they wouldn't have competed as well in a previous era as they would in this era. Sometimes you look at the environmental pressures and you say, well, this guy didn't shoot the three well enough to play in this era. On the other hand, had he played in this era, he shot a good free throw percentage, he'd have shot many more threes and likely would have shot better from three. So like, I don't know, are Byron Scott and LeBron saying or making, having commentary about how certain eras required a narrower range of skills? I'm not quite sure what the argument really is because both eras are tougher in different ways, right? That's why the players who succeeded in their given era, they were, they had to be well adapted for it. If you want to say. Was LeBron also well adapted for the 80s? Of course. Like, why would he have complained as much about calls or flopped as much? No, because you wouldn't get away with it then. But he's 6 foot 9, 260 pounds, can shoot, can defend, has a genius basketball IQ, can score, can drive, Duh. He would have been great in the 80s or in any era, but the, the environmental forces of that era would have shaped his game a little bit differently. Right. I just think it's a silly argument, to tell you the truth, but.

Rich Paul (56:02)

But, but there wasn't an argument. There was a comment and then there was a rebuttal to a comment on a platform. I don't even know what platform it was. That led to a bunch of other silliness, to be honest.

Max Kellerman (56:17)

Can I say something else about respect? You bring up a really good point. Look, I am frequently I talked about sitting in traffic and getting mad at everybody, but I find myself thinking people are idiots all the time. Right? And that is true. They are. Most people are idiots, including me. Everyone's an idiot in some way. In various ways, I'm a complete idiot, right? In terms of rational thought, I'm really good and I look around and I see other people and I go, you gotta be kidding. But in terms of other things, including maybe social IQ or intuition about things, or artistic ability or ameliative or life experience, I'm the idiot. And there's the point about respect, is yes, you can have a low opinion of various people, of various qualities about a lot of people, that's fine. But you should be respectful because they have things to teach you, they know things that you don't. They have qualities that are better than your quality in that same area. And so, and for that reason, among others, of course, you should be respectful when dealing with people.

Rich Paul (57:24)

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm going to be respectful just because that's how I was raised by Minerva and Richard in my community. But with that being said, also, you would think that if someone asks a question or someone made a comment, one, you have to see, okay, who made that comment? Does that person have the merit to make that comment based upon what? Productivity, accomplishments, et cetera. Oh, and if they do, then that should affect your answer. But it shouldn't be. Oh, it shouldn't be taken offensive. One, it definitely shouldn't be taken as if they talking to me. Two, and then three, it becomes a thing where you allow yourself to get pushed into a place where the context of what you then say going forward is. Is. Is a little cloudy. And. And then that stuff gets clipped and it just goes on and on and on.

Max Kellerman (58:26)

And also it becomes about what it really. So there's a, There's a. I studied acting at one point in my life. I wanted to be an actor, Rich. So I went to study Stanford Meisner. Okay. Meisner technique. And there's a, There's a. An exercise in Meisner technique called the repetition exercise. Someone says something and you repeat what they say, and they repeat what you say, and you go back and forth, just repeating the same phrase. And then over time, it changes and you keep repeating. And the point is, the words are not important what, what's important is what's underneath the emotion and what the person, the real message about how you're feeling about the other person, about whether they're respecting you or not. All that stuff. When something like this happens, and you mentioned it gets taken out of context in the media, it's. It's not even about the words anymore. It's about the feeling underneath.

Rich Paul (59:13)

Yes.

Max Kellerman (59:13)

It's about the fact that one person feels disrespected. So now they're dis. It's like a repetition exercise. It turns into. What they're actually arguing about are no longer the details. It's about. It's about the respect or lack thereof that is felt.

Rich Paul (59:27)

Yeah. And that happens when people feel like they don't. They don't need to mince words. And, and maybe you don't, but. But it's less about mincing and it's more about clarification and context, you know, and. And at the end of the day, it's just about respect because there's two sides of it. And then if you go on the other side to where, you know, you exude what you feel is being exuded towards you based upon the position that you sit in. It just becomes a thing that. Me personally, I'm gonna always take the high road because that's just who I am as a man. But it just becomes a thing where. How long you want somebody to take the high road, you know?

Max Kellerman (60:14)

And so I do know. I, I like to.

Rich Paul (60:16)

Yeah, I like to push. Me personally, I like to push past those things, but it's unfortunate in a lot of ways.

Max Kellerman (60:23)

So, so.

Rich Paul (60:24)

But here's respect is. Is important.

Max Kellerman (60:26)

Good. Get rich quick. Here's five minute max. But it's not going to take five, Rich, because now I want. Because then I want to talk a little bit about the NFL combine, but the NFL combine reminds me. Yeah, yeah, we got some stuff to talk about. But it reminds me, see those buckets? The fact that, yeah, they got some prospects. The fact that the NFL combine leads sports shows in the middle of the NBA season during spring training, before the combine even begins at lead sports shows. And the question is why? Right? Because the NFL, there's a lesson to be learned. But I think a lot of people think the NFL is infallible. And it's run by these geniuses who look, just copy the NFL, copy the NFL. It's run exceptionally well, of course, and they're incredibly successful. Maybe the most powerful entertainment entity certainly in this country, but internationally even, like they are as powerful an entertainment entity as exists on the planet Earth. So they've made a lot of good decisions, but they also have a certain structural advantage, Rich, which is accidental or incidental. It's such a brutal sport that they can't have a lot of inventory. You can't play three times a week or every day like in baseball, or three times a week like in basketball. You can't do it. It's too brutal. You can play once a week and not all year. So because of that, the NFL has a. Has low supply. And so, you know, the inversely, the inverse proportional relationship between supply and demand. High demand, lower supply, higher the demand. And they capitalize off that because since there are so few games, everyone can follow them. So it's a national sport. So their draft becomes interesting to everybody because everyone can watch basically all the NFL games. Now that's not intentional. The NFL didn't do that because they're geniuses. They did it because of the nature of the sport. In fact, the owners have pushed against that. They went from 14 games to 16 to 17. Now they want 18, they want more inventory. And this gets to what I always talk about, short term versus long term incentives. The short term incentive is more, more, more, more, more. The long term incentive is don't have so much inventory that you cease being a national sport. Cuz there's just too much to follow and you become super local. Like baseball or less a national sport where everyone can watch every game. But like basketball, it's, it's accidental, it's incidental or not incidental because it's, it's the nature of the sport itself that gives the NFL a structural advantage. But there is something to be learned from that advantage for basketball and baseball, Rich, which is, I mean that, that's really all I have to say for it because I could tee you up on this what's the lesson to be Learned from the NFL? Structural advantage of only having 17 games and therefore having events like the combine outrage mid season games in the other sports?

Rich Paul (63:14)

Well, I think the big picture thing which you're saying is less is more in a lot of ways. Yes. And. But the NFL also have things that I always say you can carve out and build around. Think about it from the combine perspective. The combine is one thing, but just carving out and building around 40 times.

Max Kellerman (63:34)

Right.

Rich Paul (63:35)

That's a whole nother asset to the combine. The combine is this 40 time is something different. And the 40 time goes.

Max Kellerman (63:43)

Let's get into that right now. Rich, I love, I love where you're going. I love where you're going. So basically the short of it is too much inventory in the NBA and the. And Major league baseball. Try to maybe shorten your seasons a little bit and, and we'll see what happens with the ratings. But you just. You want a short season.

Rich Paul (64:00)

I understand the business side of it, but go ahead.

Max Kellerman (64:02)

Yeah, but even long term business, you've mentioned that you. It may be profitable long term if we can take 10 games off the NBA.

Rich Paul (64:09)

As long as it doesn't affect his business deals. It's already done, but go ahead.

Max Kellerman (64:12)

Right, right. You may have to wait for them to lapse. Okay. Average 40 yard dash times. Set records at the combine. Since you brought up the 40, rich.

Rich Paul (64:20)

Yes, it did. You see Arville Reese?

Max Kellerman (64:23)

Dude, everyone's setting records.

Rich Paul (64:25)

Do you see Sonny Styles? Did you see his brother Lorenzo?

Max Kellerman (64:30)

You got linebackers, you got running backs, you got the.

Rich Paul (64:33)

The. And I want to give a shout out to Casey Concepcion.

Max Kellerman (64:37)

Oh, good.

Rich Paul (64:38)

Because. Because what he did, the courage he showed at the combine. You know, I work with and like a little brother to me, Michael Kid Gilchrist, who also had a speech impediment. And today he goes out and this is what he does. He played his years in the NBA and this is what he's passionate about. And to see that young man get up there and to show the courage that he showed to me.

Max Kellerman (65:02)

Stutter.

Rich Paul (65:03)

Yeah, yeah. As much as it was, believe me, it was a great combine. I mean the DBs were fat. I mean and we've had some. We had some guys that did extremely well, but that was, that really took the cake for me what he did.

Max Kellerman (65:17)

I mean, that people who make fun of it. You got to be kidding me.

Rich Paul (65:20)

That route running, that catching.

Max Kellerman (65:22)

Right. No stutter on that. Yeah.

Rich Paul (65:25)

And go all the way to the bank and, and, and you know, so I was just happy for him and his family in that regard. But no, it was a. Listen, I think it was a big guy yesterday. He was. He was rolling. I think he ran like a 4, 9 or something. Maybe it was a big. He was like 300, 296 pounds or something rolling. But here's what I would say about the 40 times as fast as those guys were. See, I look at 40 times a lot like I look at athleticism in the NBA. You can't get too wrapped up in those things because a guy can be fast, super fast, and a guy can be super athletic. But you become so dependent of those things that you lack the other things that it take to be a great rich.

Max Kellerman (66:14)

They already have a combine. It's called your tape. The tape don't lie. Right. Like the tape don't lie. They played a bunch of games in college. You want to know how fast they run, how well they cut. Watch tape.

Rich Paul (66:26)

But, but, but it is a great thing to have as an asset for the NFL. The combine and to build around these. The 40 time is, is, is I. That's a great asset to have.

Max Kellerman (66:39)

Yeah, you set up and you get

Rich Paul (66:40)

excited about it every year.

Max Kellerman (66:41)

Yeah. Hey, real quick, NFL draft, would you rather have the number one pick or the field?

Rich Paul (66:49)

Who this goes for the NFL draft or any draft? It depends, man. Like in most cases, Mendoza or the field. I'm taking the field.

Max Kellerman (67:01)

I think I am too.

Rich Paul (67:03)

Nothing against Mendoza, and that's no knock against Mendoza. But there's so many great players, hall of fame level talents. If everything can go right in this draft, I mean, I'm seeing guys that could possibly. Man, I mean, look at all these edges they have. You look at a guy deep, deep receivers.

Max Kellerman (67:26)

Deep receiver.

Rich Paul (67:28)

Receiver.

Max Kellerman (67:28)

An elite running back.

Rich Paul (67:29)

Cornerback.

Max Kellerman (67:30)

Linebackers.

Rich Paul (67:30)

Running back.

Max Kellerman (67:31)

Yep.

Rich Paul (67:32)

Yeah.

Max Kellerman (67:32)

You have linebackers that's got an offensive lineman high. Who could. Who make will go high, high up.

Rich Paul (67:39)

Yeah, I mean, I saw some tight ends rolling. You have a safety that could be top five. I mean, Caleb Downs is probably the smartest football player that we've seen in a while. You know, in terms of just how he approaches the game, then the receiver core. I mean, you have. I mean, it's a lot of talent. It's a lot of talent in this year's draft. So because it's this year's draft and is so heavily talented. I'm taking the field.

Max Kellerman (68:12)

I'm taking the field, too. Ready to do some emails before we get out of here?

Rich Paul (68:17)

Yeah, let's do some emails, Ryan. Oh, I want to shout out My guys, Michael B. Jordan and Ryan Coogler and the whole cast that for centers that they had an unbelievable. I guess it's been a week or a couple days of, of just, they've been crushing it in the awards.

Max Kellerman (68:37)

I worked with both Those guys on Creed 1, the first Creed.

Rich Paul (68:41)

Yeah, you did. Yeah, you did.

Max Kellerman (68:42)

Yeah.

Rich Paul (68:42)

And there were some, by the way,

Max Kellerman (68:44)

with Michael B. Jordan, who was amazing and he was great since I always talk about the Wire. He was great since the first time you saw him on the Wire.

Rich Paul (68:52)

Fruitville Station.

Max Kellerman (68:53)

Fruit Val Station. And Coogler's just, you know, Coogler is like one of the great.

Rich Paul (68:58)

But, but they were in, I mean, there was a, there were some good films that came out this year. It was a very tough crowd to, to beat, to come out. I mean, the, the, the, the Leo movie with Leo and who was in that movie? Regina.

Max Kellerman (69:17)

One battle after another.

Rich Paul (69:18)

Yeah. One battle after, after another. I would love a great one too.

Max Kellerman (69:22)

Get out to the movies again before they're gone. Before the theaters are gone.

Rich Paul (69:27)

You should go to the movies.

Max Kellerman (69:28)

I know. I, I. What, what kind. You know, I got to convince my daughter that I could take her to the movies.

Rich Paul (69:33)

And Tiana, I'm forgetting. I don't know my. Why my, My brain was.

Max Kellerman (69:36)

So Ryan wants to know about your New Balance kicks, Rich. Are you ever going to put them out for sale? That's what he wants to know. Friends and family thing. Your New Balance. The clutch, the, the RPS.

Rich Paul (69:49)

No, the RP's already sold out. They're gone.

Max Kellerman (69:52)

They're gone. Was it, he wants to know was it a free.

Rich Paul (69:54)

He might be talking about. No, he might, he's, he, I think he's talking about the AC runners, the Clutch Athletics, AC runners that we just did over previewed over All Star. Yes, they come out April 1st. All right, April 1st. The blue and white pair were friends and family and that was for All Star. We did two days of activation that we gave them away. But the black and white pair comes out April 1st.

Max Kellerman (70:19)

Black and whites, April 1st.

Rich Paul (70:21)

We have, we have multiple colors coming in that.

Max Kellerman (70:23)

All right, good. Get them before they sell out. Very Charles writes thanks for the shout out to Dark. He's talking to me. The show Dark. Best show I've ever seen. People fall into two camps. It's the greatest show ever made or never heard of it. It's not the greatest show ever made, but I would say Dark is one of the best show. The best show ever made by far. Like, let's put it in its own category as the Wire, then we can talk about. It's like, it's. It's not even.

Rich Paul (70:45)

Not even close.

Max Kellerman (70:46)

Right. When people.

Rich Paul (70:46)

Some people say Sopranos.

Max Kellerman (70:48)

I used to say Soprano. Game. Yeah, yeah.

Rich Paul (70:52)

It's the Wire.

Max Kellerman (70:52)

Yes, The Wire. And I get offended when people come out, they like Snowfall, and they start comparing. Snowfall is a fun show. Please stop comparing shows to the Wire. It's not the same animal. It's a different thing.

Rich Paul (71:05)

Yes.

Max Kellerman (71:06)

Dark is awesome. Dark is.

Rich Paul (71:09)

I never watched Dark.

Max Kellerman (71:09)

I need to watch it. Yeah. German show on Netflix. And. But it's about, like. Let's. I'll just say this without ruining anything. The first couple of episodes, you think it's some commentary on the Cold War. Maybe you're not sure, and by the third or fourth episode, you're like, oh, pardon me, I did not know it. And then you go back. You have to, like, once you're through the whole series, you go back and watch the first episode again, and there are little clues and little details that you didn't see, and it's great. All right. Paul asks. Oh, but before we even move on, you know what's, you know people who love Game of Thrones, Rich.

Rich Paul (71:46)

Who.

Max Kellerman (71:46)

There's a. People love Game of Thrones early.

Rich Paul (71:48)

Yes, they do. Yes.

Max Kellerman (71:49)

When it was going according to the books, it was a great show. And then it went away from the books and it fell off. But if you like Game of Thrones, take all the magic and the dragons away, but stay with the best stuff in Game of Thrones. That's the Last Kingdom. Last Kingdom was so good. That show is pure mayhem.

Rich Paul (72:06)

I watch that, too.

Max Kellerman (72:07)

My man.

Rich Paul (72:08)

Dark and Last Kingdom.

Max Kellerman (72:09)

Dark and the Last Kingdom. Yeah.

Rich Paul (72:11)

Playing too much golf, too much basketball, and too much golf. I got to get into Dark and Last Kingdom.

Max Kellerman (72:17)

The next one I think we may save for next time. You know what? Paul asks. This will be the tease for Wednesday's show. Paul asks, please discuss Draymond. Discussing Nico Harrison. We do that on the next show.

Rich Paul (72:31)

Okay, fine. Let's do that on the next show. I also want to talk about the next show. Acceptance versus tolerance. Like, like, if the difference.

Max Kellerman (72:44)

Well, you're gonna get into it on next show, I guess.

Rich Paul (72:46)

Yes, get into on the next show and let's talk about the next show. And then I think I want to pull a chapter out of the book for the Code Open. Or do you want to pull a chapter out of my book for the CO Open from Lucky me.

Max Kellerman (72:57)

You can definitely. I don't know if we have time to Read a whole chapter. But we could definitely.

Rich Paul (73:02)

But we could take. Yeah. The reason why I gave each chapter its own title is so it can have something to hang on to. So we can just take one. Like iron your clothes, for example.

Max Kellerman (73:12)

Yeah.

Rich Paul (73:13)

Is.

Max Kellerman (73:14)

Oh, oh, oh. You're saying title of take a rule.

Rich Paul (73:17)

No, take a rule right from the chapter of each book and use as

Max Kellerman (73:21)

a code open every now and then on the radio, I used to read two things. The man in the arena, my buddy John Avlon is writing a book on now.

Rich Paul (73:31)

As a matter of fact, I had to get with Adam for John.

Max Kellerman (73:33)

Yes. But John wrote about George Washington, Abraham Lincoln. He's writing about the man in the arena, which is a speech that Teddy Roosevelt gave at the Sorbonne in France that LeBron James writes on his sneakers. Right. Always loved that. I used to also read if from Rudyard Kipling, the poem if on the air from time to time. I do that on a cold open one of these days.

Rich Paul (73:53)

You know, I think this. This is. Oh, another thing, too. I want to ask the. The viewers, should we do our first live show at the Final Four?

Max Kellerman (74:10)

That's a good ide.

Rich Paul (74:11)

Friday before the Final Four? Do Friday's show. Interesting for the Final Four. That's interesting, right?

Max Kellerman (74:17)

Yeah. Let's get. Okay. So game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

Rich Paul (74:22)

Yeah. Game over@Spotify.com. email.

Max Kellerman (74:25)

You want to email us? See, let's. Let's take their temperature. Should we do the show live from the Final Four?

Rich Paul (74:31)

We haven't had a live show and we haven't had a guess. Although I think. I think we've gotten a lot better with our show. I think our show's been really good of late.

Max Kellerman (74:40)

Coming along.

Rich Paul (74:41)

Yep.

Max Kellerman (74:43)

Yep.

Rich Paul (74:43)

Steady. Yeah. And you know, man, like, it's tough to talk about some of these things because I have such a profound respect for a lot of people. And so it's tough to talk about some of these things, but you have to do it as, you know, it's part of the show.

Max Kellerman (75:01)

Talking about Byron Scott now I'm just

Rich Paul (75:04)

talking about elders in general, you know, that made me think about it. But. Yeah, but just elders in general. It's like you just hate to see some of the stuff that transpires sometimes. But it's the world we live in, you know.

Max Kellerman (75:17)

It is indeed. Rich Paul, we're going to do this again on Wednesday and we'll get into Draymond Green discussing Nico Harrison.

Rich Paul (75:24)

Yeah, I don't. I didn't see that. What did. What did he say? I'll call him and ask him how about that. I'm going to call Draymond and ask him what did he say and why he said what he said.

Max Kellerman (75:35)

So I'll you said people owe an apology. I disagree with like Tom Hagen. He wanted what? Wait, who did Tom Hagen wanted? The Hollywood producer.

Rich Paul (75:49)

Senator. Senator.

Max Kellerman (75:53)

Commission the House on American Activities. Yeah. All right.

Rich Paul (75:57)

All right, let's talk about it.

Max Kellerman (75:58)

I will see you Wednesday.

Rich Paul (76:00)

Yeah, let's do it back in la. Thanks, guys.

Max Kellerman (76:03)

Game over. Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. Rich would say please subscribe.

Rich Paul (76:08)

Game over@Spotify.com Please continue to subscribe and please continue to give us critique to help us get make a better show for you guys to watch.

Max Kellerman (76:17)

Rich wants critique. I'm already perfect. I don't need any critique.

Rich Paul (76:22)

On that note, goodbye.

Max Kellerman (76:24)

Just don't respect the critique.

Rich Paul (76:26)

Well, see you later.

Max Kellerman (76:27)

Oh, is that the opposite of what we've been talking about? All right, y'. All, see you on Wednesday. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra, that's the og it kicked off this whole zero sugar sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch. So if you've been living in the White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe and every Single one is zero sugar. Tap the banner to learn more. It's a season two playoff race with TGL. Presented by SoFi. Sunday at 9pm Eastern. Jupiter Links versus Boston Common Golf Monday at 7pm Eastern. Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club. Tuesday at 9pm Eastern. The Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter Links. Keep up. It's Golf Watch on ESPN ESPN2. And the ESPN applied.