Round 2 of the NBA Playoffs, KD's Burner Account, and Gobert vs. Wemby | Game Over

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Host: The Ringer
Episode: Round 2 of the NBA Playoffs, KD's Burner Account, and Gobert vs. Wemby | Game Over
Date: May 4, 2026

---

Episode Overview

Max Kellerman and Rich Paul offer their signature mix of inside knowledge, analysis, and playful banter, diving into the second round of the NBA playoffs. They focus on the Sixers’ stunning advance, Knicks-Sixers matchup, Paul George's role, Embiid’s legacy window, LeBron’s perennial “greatness” debate, the fallout of KD’s rumored burner, the Cavs–Pistons series, tiers of basketball “greatness,” and a fun breakdown of OKC as a “team of dogs.” The episode closes with thoughtful thoughts on NBA culture, “haterism,” and some rapid-fire mailbag Q&A.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Post-Miami Recap & Opening Jokes

[01:22–07:48]

• Max and Rich recall a star-studded Miami event: Jamie Foxx (hailed as “the most talented guy in the world”), Luda, Wyclef, Kevin Hart, and more.
• Humorous reflection on their school days, competitive academics, and negotiating cafeteria food.

Notable Quote:

• “Jamie Foxx is the most talented maybe person I ever know … stand up, dramatic acting, sketch comedy, music. He’s the most talented guy in the world.” – Rich Paul [02:09]

---

2. Sixers Stun Celtics, Face Knicks – Deep Dive

[11:02–26:31]

Sixers–Celtics Recap & The Rise of Tyrese Maxey

• Rich details being at pivotal games, learning Tyrese Maxey’s character and work ethic (“the leader of that team now”).
• Inside stories: Maxey’s draft path, “structural advantages” of Clutch’s deep personal connections, and resisting pressure to send Maxey to the G League.
• Max and Rich examine the Sixers’ combination of elite talent (Embiid, Maxey, Paul George) and why they out-talent the Knicks, but not in depth/coherence.

Notable Quotes:

• “Tyrese is the leader of that team now. He changed the culture around there, and it’s … what he brings to the team.” – Rich Paul [12:43]
• “You really know who you’re getting at Clutch—you know the family, you’ve seen the work.” – Max Kellerman [13:04]

Can the Sixers Capitalize?

• Discussion of top-end talent vs. team play; Knicks have depth/chemistry, Sixers have “best 2-4 players if healthy.”
• Max: “If they can remain healthy, they have to beat the Knicks.” [36:17]
• Rich: “They’re overachieving. ... No one assumed health for this team.” [38:21]

The Burden on Embiid & Legacy Stakes

• Embiid’s injury background means his window is “narrow and fleeting.”
• Legacy talk: If Embiid beats the Knicks and carries to a championship, it flips his narrative—his “chance to write his own script,” akin to Ali-Liston or LeBron’s 2016 comeback.

Notable Quote:

• “In the end … if you play 15 years and come up empty handed … you have to win one.” – Max Kellerman [35:12]

---

3. The Value of “Alpha” – Paul George, Team Construction & Championship Formulas

[24:11–30:40]

• Paul George as the “key to the Knicks series”—could he be a No. 1 on a championship team? (Consensus: better as an elite No. 2 or 3.)
• Philosophical talk: Pistons ’04 as blueprint vs. superstar-led model.
• Rich: “We try to make every team have one of those [anomaly] guys. ... Just build the team.” [29:46]

---

4. LeBron & Lakers: Greatness, “House Money,” & Haterism

[41:34–63:29]

LeBron’s Playoff Outlook

• Max and Rich discuss what it takes for LeBron’s Lakers to have any chance, particularly against a dogged, athletic OKC squad.
• Game-theory: Lakers need to control pace, avoid turnovers, rely on hot shooting to “steal one” and give Luka time to return.

Championship Standards & Haterism

• The media and current/former players treat LeBron’s losses differently from Jokic or others—tracing roots to deeper issues (“it’s deeper than just hating; it’s about how success reflects on others’ shortcomings”).
• Rich shares personal experience of recruiting setbacks because of LeBron’s polarizing media presence.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you wanted to pick one player who could take four guys from the Y and get to the finals, it’s LeBron James.” – Max [42:26]
• “When LeBron loses, people are happy to see him lose … for different reasons. It’s deep.” – Rich Paul [57:01]

---

5. Kevin Durant, Burners & Team Chemistry

[63:58–66:52]

• Discussion about ESPN report that KD’s burner account hurt team chemistry in Houston.
• Both find it plausible, with Max arguing “KD should be the greatest player of all time … but only won when parachuting onto a 73-win team.”
• Rich doubts a KD move this offseason, but sees the door cracked.

Notable Quotes:

• “If it was his burner … I would like to see some accountability from him. Just KD come out and say, I should not have done that.” – Max [66:24]
• “I think that because you made that move, it’ll be very hard for you to get off of him this summer.” – Rich [65:53]

---

6. Playoff Series Previews

[69:12–76:18]

Cavs vs Pistons

• Both praised for their toughness, but Cavs have “more names.”
• Max: Mobley’s ceiling debate—Tim Duncan or Chris Bosh? Rich argues Mobley’s future depends on opportunity, usage, and team context.

Big Threes vs. Big Twos

• Rich: “Big threes don’t work to me … I always like big two and depth.” [73:20]
• Max and Rich debate whether Mobley could ever be a No. 1 on a title team (“too soon to say”).

Pistons’ Outlook

• Cade Cunningham is a true star, but team is “a player and a half short.”

---

7. Gobert vs. Wemby: Can Defense Supplant “Transcendence”?

[76:18–78:05]

• Gobert’s legendary defense checked Jokic’s legacy, but vs. Wemby?
• Both agree: “There’s no such thing as shutting down Wemby … Wemby is the best player in basketball by quite a bit.” – Max [77:51]

---

8. OKC: “Team of Dogs” – Fun Segment

[48:40–51:57]

• Rich assigns dog breeds to OKC players—Caruso, Dort, and Wallace as “pit bulls,” SGA as a Doberman, Chet as a Great Dane, and so on.
• “You’ve got to have a team of fighting dogs,” says Rich.

---

9. Mailbag & Basketball Greatness Tiers

[78:11–85:13]

• Max introduces the “peak list” and “career list” for GOAT debates (Jordan vs. LeBron: “MJ’s the GOAT player … LeBron has had … the goat basketball career” – Dave in NJ [79:28]).
• Rich on LeBron: “He was possessed” in 2013; both agree 2013 is peak LeBron.

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:22–07:48] — Miami recap, Jamie Foxx, reminiscing
• [11:02–38:21] — Sixers’ rise, Maxey, Knicks matchup, structure of Clutch Sports
• [24:11–30:40] — Paul George, “alpha” discussion, ’04 Pistons & team-building philosophy
• [41:34–56:00] — LeBron’s outlook, Lakers-OKC, legacy, OKC = “team of dogs”
• [63:58–66:52] — KD, burner accounts & chemistry
• [69:12–76:18] — Cavs-Pistons, Mobley’s path, “big two” vs. “big three” construction
• [76:18–78:05] — Gobert vs. Wemby, defensive legacy tests
• [78:11–85:13] — Mailbag: GOAT debates, LeBron’s peak, predicting series outcomes

---

Memorable Quotes

• “If you play 15 years and come up empty handed … you have to win one.” – Max Kellerman [35:12]
• “Tyrese is the leader… He changed the culture around there.” – Rich Paul [12:43]
• “If Embiid wants to ever be in conversations with guys like Jokic who want a chip, you gotta go do it.” – Max [37:56]
• “Big threes don’t work to me … I always like big two and depth.” – Rich Paul [73:20]
• “There’s no such thing as shutting down Wemby … Wemby’s the best player in basketball by quite a bit.” – Max [77:51]
• “When LeBron loses, people are happy to see him lose … it’s deeper.” – Rich Paul [57:01]

---

Tone & Highlights

This episode skillfully blends playful banter and storytelling with expert, insider-level basketball analysis. Max brings analytical rigor, big-picture context, and historical comp. Rich provides rare agent/insider detail, from locker room dynamics to player mentality, always delivered with personality and heart. Hot topics (Embiid’s urgent window, LeBron’s unique haterism, KD’s team turbulence) are explored deeply but with humanity and wit.

---

For Listeners New and Old

• The episode provides a rich primer on playoff narratives, how agent/player relationships work, why team structure trumps star-chasing, and nuanced takes on the league’s brightest stars.
• Not just recapping games—Max and Rich explore why legacies are built (or broken), the hidden psychology behind NBA culture, and what true greatness means.

---

Contact:

• [e-mail] for emails
• Voicemail: [phone]

---

Next Episode:
More playoff reaction, deep dives, and potentially a “5-Minute Max” on Evan Mobley’s ceiling.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Look, I love what I do. I highly recommend it. If you can get into this business, it beats working for a living. You watch sports, you talk about them, you debate about them, you give everyone your opinion about them. Right. You're gonna do that anyway, but you get paid for it. It's a good deal. People driven by passion are good for business. It's finding them that's the problem. Luckily, ZipRecruiter can help with that. Try it [e-mail] gameover ZipRecruiter is consistently on it. They have powerful matching tech, and they're frequently rated the number one hiring site based on G2 Plus. They added a new feature that pushes qualified candidates who are most interested in your job to the top of your list. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for [e-mail] gameover that's ziprecruiter.com gameover meet your match on ZipRecruiter. Max, what's up?

[B]

Great weekend.

[A]

Yeah, it was. Thank you, by the way.

[B]

Yeah, no problem.

[A]

When you hang out with Rich, you get access to everything. You're never going in through the regular end. It's very good, fellas. They take you in through the kitchen.

[B]

Yeah. Well, look how great was Carbone Beach.

[A]

Listen, it was already pretty live, and then all of a sudden, all of a sudden, Luda's up on stage and Fat Joes coming out and.

[B]

Yeah, Luda. And friends.

[A]

And friends. Wyclef.

[B]

Wyclef, Aladdin.

[A]

Hold on. You know what the.

[B]

Jamie Foxx.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Kevin Hart.

[A]

Kevin Hart got his. But let me tell you something. To me, the highlight of that show, and there were a lot, was the fact that Jamie Foxx just starts singing.

[B]

Well, he called him out the crowd,

[A]

but the fact that he's like, he doesn't want. He actually wants to show you what he sounds like.

[B]

Like, Jamie Foxx is the most talented

[A]

maybe person I ever know. Yeah.

[B]

Anytime a man can play Wanda and make a platinum record and win an Oscar for Ray and do stand up

[A]

as well as anyone.

[B]

Stand up.

[A]

So it's sketch comedy, stand up, serious acting, like dramatic acting at the highest level. Music.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's ridiculous. He's the most talented guy in the world.

[B]

He played two songs. Unpredictable.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's his record. Unpredictable is his record. But then Gold digger. And then when I think about Jamie Foxx, sometimes I call Jamie out the blue. The guy knows sports. He talks real sports. He is the most talented person I've ever known.

[A]

Yeah. Or I've even heard of, like, if you think of the most talented people in the world, he's. He's been, like. He's had that crown for, like, decades now. Right. Who else is comparable to him? Even in another era? I mean, there are people, but it's like that. You get someone like that. I don't know. You get someone like that, like, maybe twice in a century, maybe.

[B]

Eddie Murphy did make My Girl Wants to Party all the Time.

[A]

He did. That was a good song, too.

[B]

Great song.

[A]

Yeah. And he played, and he does stand up.

[B]

Eddie Murphy.

[A]

Stand up was the best stand up. Yeah. And Eddie Murphy's a great actor. He's an underrated and great actor.

[B]

He played all the characters in Coming to America. Harlem Knights was great. I mean, Eddie's probably the closest.

[A]

And he did sketch comedy. Kind of. Jamie Foxx is kind of Eddie Murphy 2.0 in a way.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, those two. I mean, yeah, that's. That's elite. Elite Company. But I thought Wycliffe was great. And Luda. One thing I know about Luda, he got so many records that you don't even.

[A]

Oh, it's ridiculous.

[B]

And he's. He has an age one bit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The man looks like a teenager, you know? But. But shout out to Jeff Zelasnik and Mario Carbone, who really rolled out the red carpet for us. We also have to. To. To. To give a shout out to Dan Silman and Steve Ross and. And. And Tom Garfinkel, who really rolled out the red carpet for us. Or the green carpet at the palm club for F1. I mean, listen, you have to show your appreciation. These people. Max, you had a great time.

[A]

I did.

[B]

You had a great outfit, your glasses. I'm like, look at Max. He's Miami Max.

[A]

Miami Max. It's true. I was Miami Max.

[B]

You got a tan. You was on the beach with Dean.

[A]

Dean dragged me out to the beach one day. I was there. I had about 40 minutes because we had. Our schedules were packed, but I got out there for about 40 minutes.

[B]

He dragged you out to the beach. He dragged me out to the beach after a day of meetings?

[A]

Yeah. You just golf all the time? Golf?

[B]

No, I had meetings.

[A]

You didn't have what you're saying golf meetings?

[B]

I had golf meetings, and I also had meetings. Yes.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because I got a lot of work done.

[A]

Because no matter how packed your schedule is, you will find time to play 18 holes.

[B]

Well, I played in the Cadillac Pro Am with Carlos Sands and Braxton Barrios, who was great. I played with Victor Hovland, who was also. These guys were real guys. Real guys.

[A]

And hold on. Your team.

[B]

I played with Rios.

[A]

Hold on. Your team.

[B]

Shot 11 under. We finished 11 under.

[A]

It's pretty good.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Listen, it's so good. I got bit by a lot of bucks. The golf bug is a bug. I'm fine getting bit by.

[A]

Yeah, I don't play like, I'm gonna start to play, I think, but I'm a little bit afraid of, like, being addicted to it. When I was a kid, I got addicted to, like, shooting pool. I got addicted to playing chess. You know what I mean? And golf.

[B]

That's the one game I wish I really learned how to play. We had a chess club at my high school at Benedictine High School, but I didn't play chess, and I didn't play. We had a golf team at my high school. I didn't play golf.

[A]

Our sports teams were nothing but Hunter High School. It's like a specialized high school in New York. What you walk in, you know how you see trophies of athletic achievements. But we had, like, the chess trophy. We had the number one shout out KK Karunja and Jessica Ambatz when I was a kid, seventh grade.

[B]

They sound extremely smart.

[A]

Listen, KK Was a national treasure in Kenya at the time. He was 12. 11 or 12 years old. Had a draw with Kasparov and was the number one one ranked male player in the country under 18. But he was like, 11 or 12. And Jessica? Same thing. She was number one ranked female player in the country under 18 when she was like, 11 or 12. It was stupid.

[B]

I mean, my school was pretty smart. I mean, when I first got. When I first got to Benedictine, I didn't realize that a 90 was a B.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

It is an A minus. No, at my school. No, at my school, a 90 was. Are you sure?

[A]

It's a smart school. It doesn't sound very smart if they don't know that a 90 is an a b plus.

[B]

Actually, it was a b plus. Yeah. 92 was an a minus. Ah, all right.

[A]

Yeah, There you go.

[B]

I mean, that's what it was. So I had to adjust because I'm thinking I'm getting A's and I'm really getting B pluses. That mattered.

[A]

I would have loved to get A's or B pluses. In high school.

[B]

Well, our basketball team had like a 3.67 or 8 Akum. We were really smart. Really smart.

[A]

Yeah. That's the basketball team.

[B]

That was the basketball team. I mean, there were some geniuses just in the school. I can't think of all the names, but they were some geniuses. But anyway, you ready to start the show?

[A]

I'm ready to start the show.

[B]

I'm good.

[A]

Listen, if we get a 90, I hope we get better than the B plus, though.

[B]

That was that greatest.

[A]

We get a 90. That's an A minus today.

[B]

The position I am in today. I would have probably debated that.

[A]

You know, I would have went to. Yes, you would have negotiated.

[B]

I would have negotiated that for sure.

[A]

You would have said negotiating position.

[B]

I would have had to go to. Who was it? Tony Russ back then was the Dina man and Mr. Charles Reynolds was the principal. I had to go have a sit down with those two. And really, it's like if the Lakers

[A]

come to you and say lebron's doing things that no one his age has ever come close to doing. B plus.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I did negotiate the pierogies on, you know, at the food station.

[A]

Oh, you negotiated. You negotiated food?

[B]

Yeah, with coach Al. Coach Al used to make the best little fish sandwiches you have to walk over to the gym to get. Cause he had his own thing going on and he had a bigger business than the actual cafeteria. I had the class he was rolling.

[A]

I had the PS41 sloppy joe day like once a week. That was like the. I think like Adam Sandler had a song about this.

[B]

But there's a place in Phoenix called the arrogant Butcher. Got the best sloppy joe turkey. Sloppy Joe sloppy. Yeah, but now you're making me hungry. Come on, let's start the show.

[A]

Game over is brought to you by fanduel. It's been a wild playoff run, but it's not over yet. And FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make more of all the action to come. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams, players and plays during the NBA post season. Build a same game parlay for a shot at big or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 and over in select states 18 and over in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInElectric.

[B]

I know why you're in A better mood today, Max.

[A]

First of all, we haven't even said it yet. Game over with Max Kellerman and rich Paul.

[B]

Yeah. Gameoverpotify.com we have an email and we have a new call in number for a voicemail.

[A]

We've been getting to emails every show. Voicemail. Check this out. We have not done one yet. Right. Like you might be the first one. 4242-4083-4142-4240, 83, 41. See who gets the first voice.

[B]

41 is a good number for the pick four. I'm gonna play that. 20. 20.

[A]

What? That's just like a gut feeling. You just like the way it falls on the ear.

[B]

Yeah. 83.

[A]

83, 41.

[B]

That's a good number for. I'm telling you, when it come out, when they come out, I'll treat you to what? I don't know. Tell me it won't be a sweater, because that'd be more than what I would win in the lottery. But we'll have a nice meeting.

[A]

We'll have a dinner. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, we have a nice dinner.

[A]

So listen, you said it. Matter of fact, do we have. I'm sure we have the video.

[B]

Which one?

[A]

Where you said the Sixers early in the season, you said when the Sixers are having all kinds of problems with injury, they look dead in the water. The Sixers of the team that you didn't want to see in the first round.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. And the Celtics, by the way, looked like the team that could maybe win the whole thing if Tatum got right.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the Sixers and the Celtics link up in the first round. And the Celtics are home and the Sixers are heading to New York.

[B]

Yes, that. That. That series really turned. I went to game three. They lost to Sixers, but they were actually in the game. They should have won that game. That game. Scheiberman had two threes. Garza, I think, had one or two threes, and I think they lost by nine. But the Sixers missed a lot of open shots, had some turnovers, and Embiid did not play that game.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then the next game, Embiid did play, and they lost at home again. And they went back to Boston. Down 3. 1.

[A]

Embiid played, but again, no.

[B]

Embiid played, but he didn't play well.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yes, but then they went on the road to Boston, and he did play well, and Tyrese played well. But I told you. Look, I talked to Tyrese every other day. I know what.

[A]

Me too. Me too.

[B]

I know what. But I Know what he possesses. I know the type of person he is. I know the type of competitor he is. I know the work he puts in, not only during the season, in the summer, and how much he loves the game of basketball and how much he really wants to win. Tyrese is the leader of that team now. He changed the culture around there, and it's. It's. The energy is what he brings to the team.

[A]

This is a big advantage that. A structural. A structural advantage that Clutch Sports has over other agencies, in my view. Not just because I'm. I mean, it's one of the reasons probably I'm working with you. Right.

[B]

Well, I like the sound of this. Keep talking.

[A]

Because you really know basketball. But other people also know basketball. That's one level. Because some people don't. Who are in the business.

[B]

Well, most in our business, they're not.

[A]

But there's a certain level of understanding. Like you could. You could. You could be the president of a team, or you, like, you have a real understanding of the game. I mean, obviously, LeBron's, you know, but then your understanding of who the person is before they ever enter the league, you know them, you know their family, you. A lot of times they've lived with you or something like that. You know what their work ethic is. You know how they treat people like all the kind of. The kind of research that like a GM might do before he signs a guy or the manager or a coach, he'll. He'll go to the parking attendant, talk to him about, like, Buck Showalter talks about this in baseball. You want to find out from the parking attendant, how's this dude? How do you. How's he treat you?

[B]

Right, Exactly.

[A]

All those kind of stuff.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All that kind of stuff that people do by the time a guy's a free agent, because they want to know you knew about that from the start. Right. And you know about him on a personal level, because, again, if, like, someone's living at your house or something like that, you really get to know them. So. So that's like a huge advantage, because how do you really tell at a certain level who's going to be Tyrese Maxey and who's not going to be when they're both fast, they're both talented, they both have skills. But because you're at Clutch, the agency has an advantage because you have a. No one's batting a thousand, but you have a really good understanding of who's willing to take the work home with them. Right?

[B]

Absolutely. And look, in our. In our Business. If you are an agent, in most cases, you are about the transaction. You're about the business of it. So whether you know basketball or not, people don't really push back on that. I actually played the game, been around the game, loved it. Never played at pro level, but just always loved the game. So I do feel like that's an advantage in terms of certain things. But with that being said, in Tyrese's case, do you know, during his draft process, it was Covid, six months he was here. His whole family's. Mom, dad, grandmom. He has these. He has two twin nieces that he loves, like his little sisters, the dog. Everybody was here. I watched this guy every single day, twice a day. Never be late, never complain. Didn't even know they was gonna have a draft, right? Never be late.

[A]

They stayed ready.

[B]

Never complain throughout the process. At that time, you know, they were. The league was allowing teams to do things a little bit different way. It was Covid. People couldn't really fly, whatever, and it was tough to evaluate. Remember, they didn't have a NCAA tournament. So because of that, the teams kept talking to me about, well, Rich, you know, he didn't really shoot the three. Well, I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm watching this guy in the gym every day. He's making 17, 18, 19 threes in a row. 45 minutes into a workout, I'm like, no, that doesn't make sense. So I think Detroit might have had a pick. They took Killian Hayes. I had New Orleans. I'm like, they took. They had 13th pick. They took Kyra pick. Kyra Lewis from Alabama. And that's no offense to these guys.

[A]

No, but that's what I mean. If you don't have the information you have, how would you know that that's the wrong pick?

[B]

I think the Knicks passed on them because they had later picks, but I think they picked somebody else. And I remember calling the Sixers, and I said to them, and this is the thing where he was a guy that you trade up, up to get, right? He really was. He really was, obviously. Yeah. And every team I talked to, I'm telling you. So when. When I called the Sixers and the draft was at, like, 16, and the one thing I said to Tyrese and his family, and I say this to all of them, and. And now, you know, I said, don't worry about what. What draft pick he is. That don't. That don't really matter. Like that. I said, you have to worry about these things. And I Got to quit giving my. My, My things to the public because, you know, all the agencies watch the show and they just steal my stuff and they take it into meetings and whatever. But. So I'm a. Hold some of the cards in.

[A]

In the. In the immortal words of Rakim, my ideas are only for the audience ears to my opponents. It might take years.

[B]

I like that bar. That's a bar, but it's Rakim, so it's understood his bar never closes. But nevertheless. So, Tyrese, when I call Elton brand, it's the 16th pick. And I said, elton, I'm telling you, if you guys pass on this kid, you're going to regret it. They were going to trade the pick. They were. He was like, I think we're going to trade the pick. I said, you better not do that. I'm just telling you because you just understand what's in a kid and now a young man. And I've been with him and watched him grow. And so during his rookie season, it was Covid and. And he wasn't playing. He wasn't playing at all. And they wanted to send him to the G League. So Sam Cassell was on the team. And I called Sam and I said, sam, give me this. What's going on? He said, shit, shit, shit, Rich. I told Doc. I told Doc, I ain't saying, listen, he ain't going down no G League. He going down to G league. Doc said, well, it got to get some reps, isn't it? Sam said, he gets some reps right here. He's. He's beating the guys on the third team.

[A]

Why was he not getting time?

[B]

He was a rookie, right? They wouldn't. You know, they wasn't. And I. I knew what he would look like next to Ben Simmons, because Ben was really a 610 point guard who did not necessarily want to shoot the ball all the time, obviously forever. Yeah, but, you know, he was more of a facilitating. But you put Tyrese next to that, in between Embiid, and now you're able to run Tyrese off those Iverson cuts and things like that. And then when Ben goes to the bench, he now is on the ball.

[A]

I mean, if Simmons back then, people forget how good Simmons was for a minute.

[B]

No, this was.

[A]

If he has Tyrese and Embiid on the board. No, this was.

[B]

No, this was the plan. What are you talking about, Max? This was. I envisioned this. This was the thing. And during that season, remember, Tyrese wasn't playing that well. I mean, Tyrese wasn't playing at all. But couple guys got Covid. They went on the road to Denver. You could look this game up. He had 44.

[A]

Yeah, I remember he had some crazy scoring game.

[B]

Yeah, 44. So he called me after the game and I said, man, that was a hell of a game, Reece. He's like, yeah. I said, well, the good news is we know you can play in the NBA. The bad news is you're not going to play the next 10 games. He's like, what? I'm like, yeah, it's just the way it goes. Like, these guys going to come back and you're not going to be any good.

[A]

Sixers didn't want to be good.

[B]

And he could. No, they were. No, they were actually good.

[A]

Yeah, but they didn't. He was really good.

[B]

He was a rookie, so, you know, he was. I understand, but this is the way.

[A]

At least use him as a six man.

[B]

This is the way sometimes the coaching worked. And so during that same season, they went to. They were going to somewhere. They were going, oh, their G League team had gotten to the, like deep into the playoffs. And again, it came up again. I said, no, can't send them down there. It was. I think it was All Star break or something, but whatever. But they did come around. And the Sixers like, holy shit, Rich. We found a real jewel, not only. Not just in basketball, though, the energy that he brings into that. That practice facility and into the arena. You cannot find a person within the Sixers organization that has one thing negative to say about Tyrese Maxey. I'm talking about there's not one person. So anyway, with that being said, when you add that with people act like Paul George isn't well, you forget about

[A]

him because he's hurt all the time. Right. You know, like he and mba.

[B]

Yeah, but still.

[A]

So let's get into the series. Here's the issue for me, you know, looking at it from a Knicks point of view. The Knicks have a better team than the Sixers. They have a deeper, better roster than the Sixers. And they've been playing more cohesively as a unit throughout the year. Right now, their offensive and defensive efficiency together makes them the most, I believe, at the moment, most efficient team in the playoffs, I want to say. But anyway, they're playing well. They just blew out Atlanta. Remember when they had a couple of close games then? I liked the Knicks in six because every succeeding game, they won by a

[B]

wider and wider margin.

[A]

And the last game was historic. You know, never seen a beat down like that literally ever in the history.

[B]

Relax Max, it's true. I have players on the Hawks nevertheless, so. And they have a good ownership group.

[A]

Okay. But I'm just. As a statement of fact, that was the widest margin, you know, first half and.

[B]

Yeah, but that don't mean you have

[A]

to shine a light on it. Okay, so. So the point is though, when you look at the series, who has the best player in the series? Sixers.

[B]

Six years.

[A]

Who has the second best player in the series? Sixers. Maxi, who has the third best player,

[B]

Best player when fully healthy is Embiid.

[A]

Right? Yeah, yeah, but. Right, but he's been healthy recently.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Okay, so last week, Right. This is, this is why, like let's wait and see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the Knicks then have Brunson and Cat, which is probably three. But close to Brunson and Cat is Paul George when fully healthy. And then, and then. Who did I say was the key player in that first round for the Sixers was Edgecomb. If Edgecomb became developed before our eyes because he has all this potential, he had a good rookie season. If he develops before our eyes into takes the next step in these playoffs, oh my God. Now you got four guys in your starting five with elite talent. See, like you can have elite skill like Jalen Brunson has. He's elite skill. But when you have the skill combined with elite talent, meaning how fast are you going, how high are you jumping, how quick are your reflexes, how long are your arms? That kind of stuff, like the physical talent, it's rough. And the Sixers, when you look at four guys in their starting five, their talent is pitched so high. Right. So the whole thing with them is health. If they can stay healthy, it's going

[B]

to be tough to beat. It's going to be a tough series. Both teams have two when healthy, two perennial all stars, right. Brunson and Towns. Maxine Embiid when healthy. So they may cancel each other out.

[A]

Paul George, when he's healthy, was a perennial all star.

[B]

I think Paul George is the key to this series for the Sixers because Paul George, at 6:9 is such a skilled basketball player. See, people forget. It's not like you can say, oh yeah, Paul George, he had injuries, et cetera. He missed 25 games this year because of whatever. But when you talk about his skill

[A]

set, both ends,

[B]

pound for pound.

[A]

His skill set, yeah, he's a truly great two way player.

[B]

If you had to make up a player and gave them everything that they should have as a player, like create a player, you might be creating Paul

[A]

Jordan what you said about Scotty Pippen applies to Paul Jordan. Yes. Every team is looking for seven of those guys.

[B]

Yeah, his. Paul. Paul George handles better than Scottie Pippen's.

[A]

And he's taller.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Paul George is six nine.

[A]

Right. Pippen was six' seven.

[B]

So if Paul George can come into the series with the mentality that, hey, this series. Because each series, you have to exploit the mismatch in each series. And I think this series for Paul, I'm not saying it's a mismatch because. Because the Knicks have great defenders, but Paul George could be the X factor in this series for the six.

[A]

There's a lot of. There are a lot of topics in this series, including like Paul George's mentality. He was not going to be the best player on a championship team, by the way. That was not obvious in the beginning. As he's coming up, you're like, can he be the best player in a championship team?

[B]

That Pacers team they had was really good. They just ran into the heat. If it wasn't for the heat, they.

[A]

That team goes to this. I don't know. I don't know if Paul George was ever cut out to be the number one on a championship team. However, you thought he could be the two on a champion.

[B]

Let me ask you a question, because people say this all the time about being the number one on a championship team. How about just being a championship team who Was the number one on the Detroit Pistons in 2004?

[A]

That. Okay, but that's the exception that proves the rule.

[B]

But no, it's the exception that is,

[A]

it's the exception if they're 10 team. If a 10 year run you have one year like that. It's the exception that proves the rule. This is the exception. Like, you're right. That's the perfect example. Because kind of Rip Hamilton at times was the most dangerous school.

[B]

You can't pick it.

[A]

But no, you could. You could say who the Alpha was on that team. Chauncey.

[B]

Chauncey. Because he's the point guard. But what I'm telling you is.

[A]

And he was that dude.

[B]

Yeah, but sometimes Ben was the Alpha. Yes. Because you're looking at scoring. I'm talking about.

[A]

No, no, Ben, Listen, listen. Ben Wallace was defensively a problem, but you would never say he was the best player on the team.

[B]

Best player in Alpha is two different things.

[A]

Okay, all right. He captained the defense. You want to say greatest defensive team of all time. He was the captain of the defense. Maybe.

[B]

No, I'm saying in a Game. Ben Wallace could literally turn the entire game around to where he shuts a guy down from scoring. He blocks three, four shots in a row, misses a couple rebounds. Yeah, but still, here's the thing, Max. I was there. I was just with Rip Hamilton the other night.

[A]

We talked about this in 2004, and this is on tape. There was one person in the national media who picked the Pistons to win. But not only did I pick them to win, I picked them to sweep the Lakers. And it wound up a gentleman's sweep. And the reason I did was out of that Pacers series, where everyone was dissing the Eastern Conference, I was thinking, has everyone lost their minds? That's the best defensive series, seven games I've ever seen. Both teams.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the Pistons came out the winner. And then I saw that sloppy basketball in the Western Conference. No one's playing defense. I'm like, you're not going to win with that.

[B]

All I'm saying, Max, is I understand how great that Pistol team was. But again, you just reminded me of something I have to shout out. Rip. We just saw Rip in Miami. Yeah, we had some great. I hadn't seen him. It was so great to see him. One of my favorite, favorite people, because I told you I could go to Rip's house. He's not even there. My man Haney was with him.

[A]

Family must have a golf simulator.

[B]

No, this is no Rip. He's playing golf now. I'm talking about. This is back in 2004, 2005.

[A]

Something with golf.

[B]

This is back by this. This is before Rip got traded to the Pistons, by the way. But anyway, it was so good to see Rip and Henny and my man Tonio, the Cuban cigar smoker from D.C. but hold on.

[A]

Let's get back.

[B]

Let's get back to that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I just want to make sure I

[A]

did that about the Pistons also, is sometimes you can get a team like everyone. We didn't mention Rasheed Wallace or Tayshon Prince, where everyone in the fight. It's perfect. Right? And. And you just catch lightning in a bottle.

[B]

Don't you think more teams should approach building a team?

[A]

Well, in a way, why not? Because if a team like that happens once every 20 years, and the other 19 years, you have LeBron James or Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or Shaquille, and sometimes both of two of those guys. Dwayne Wade and LeBron James.

[B]

Right. Here's a problem.

[A]

I have Scotty Pippen, Shaq and Kobe.

[B]

Yes, but here's.

[A]

Then try to do that.

[B]

No, but Here's a problem I have with this, and this is where no one thinks about these things. Things those guys you just named are an anomaly.

[A]

Yeah. Hard to get those guys.

[B]

Yes. The problem we have is we try to make every team have one of those guys.

[A]

Okay, but wait.

[B]

Just build the team. Build the team.

[A]

We can. I want to stay on the. On the Sixers right now because my point about Paul George is at first, could he be the best player on a championship team? No, probably not. Then it was, could he be the second best player on a championship team? And that looked likely. Yes, he could. But what happened?

[B]

The number one best player, I don't

[A]

think, when he was young. In retrospect, I don't think either one of those things are true. Because some guys, Some guys offensive games are like, Paul George's offensive game is best when he's in the flow of the action, not when you have to design plays for him. But he's perfectly used on a perfect team. He's actually the third option because. And that's what he is on the Sixers.

[B]

Paul George is your third option, but this is what mean you're 73 and 9.

[A]

Rich. This is what I'm saying about the Sixers team. The reason, like, Paul George had a good game, good shooting game, too. And there have been too many playoff games where his level drops off a little bit in the playoffs, like in a big game. And that's because I think as it's like Iggy.

[B]

Well, you gotta.

[A]

Iggy was. Once upon a time, he. He's the number one option. No, he's. Iggy was best as, like the fourth option on a team. Well, in my opinion, he's a Hall of Fame player. But. But ideally, the way his game is, Paul George, when he doesn't have the pressure of carrying the scoring load or being the second option and he can just play basketball. He's deadly.

[B]

You talking about two different players? See, I'm thinking about the Paul George that I saw on the Indiana Pacers. That guy is not a third option.

[A]

Well, if he was, you'd win the championship, right? Yeah.

[B]

So if you want to say that debt today is Paul George's. Whatever.

[A]

But he goes from there. He goes from there to the Clippers. And now they have Kawhi, who we saw as a number one on a championship team. And now Paul George is expected to be a number two. It didn't work. Even when they were healthy, Luka ran up. Luka blew him out.

[B]

Did they have both in that series?

[A]

Yes. Yes. This Is what I'm saying. When you look at the Sixers team, they have a. Can Embiid be the best player? Championship team? Yes. Can Maxi be the second best player? Yes. Can Paul George be the third best player?

[B]

Maxi's the first best player.

[A]

If everyone's. If everyone's healthy.

[B]

No, no. Let's get this straight. This is. No, this is not Mr. Bias. Tyrese Maxey is the best player on the Philadelphia 76, arguably. There's no argue. We saw it in Boston. We just saw it. So this is Michael Price's son who's the best player on the 76ers. He'll tell you. Kids don't lie. So he'll tell you.

[A]

So before we get to maybe what the Celtics should do after that series, this opens up. Speaking of Michael, this opens. And Philly fans, this opens up a can of worms. What just happened in these playoffs. And remember when we were sitting there in Miami and the Nuggets were down six points with a minute 50 to go? Something like that. And I said, okay, these guys, the script isn't written. These players write their own script. If you're Jokic and people are saying you're top 10 all time, you cannot lose a series to a team without their best player.

[B]

It can't happen, right?

[A]

So down two possessions with almost two minutes left. That's not insurmountable.

[B]

It can't happen for certain people.

[A]

This is what I'm saying.

[B]

No one's talking about that right now. Go do it. No media outlets talking about.

[A]

If we are a media outlet, we're talking about it right now. This is what I'm saying. Go do it. Jokic didn't get it done. Jokic's offense is on the topmost tier. He's not Michael Jordan. Everyone, like, calm down. He's not LeBron James. LeBron's very best. Everyone calm down. But he's up there on one side of the ball. But when you talk about the top 10 greatest players of all time, what happened to Jokic, it's not allowed to happen in the first round when the other team's superstar goes down. The reason I bring that up is to say, remember when I said Embiid is one of those? We don't think of it the same way because we think of acute injury like Derek Rose or Grant Hill, the what could have beens, right? Embiid is one of those guys. But because there's no one acute injury, it's a bunch of different pretty big injuries. He's not thought of the Same way. But if he. And I don't. I'm not saying this is likely to happen. If the Sixers team can stay healthy through this Knicks series, even. Here's his chance. No one else writes the script. These guys write their own script.

[B]

I can't.

[A]

Head to head. He's beaten Jokic. Hard to imagine him getting shut down by Gobert right in a series. But Jokic has a chip and Embi doesn't.

[C]

And.

[A]

No excuses. You're crude. Up right now. Go do it.

[B]

But MB's only been wealthy for a week, max.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

And he just. And did you see the play the other night? The worst play in basketball. Tyrese's guard and Jalen Brown. Jalen Brown makes a move, the same move that he's talking about on the stream right now that. That he felt like he was. He was, you know, targeted for calling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Tyrese is kind of.

[A]

Jalen Brown was streaming after the game, talking about.

[B]

Everybody does use that move and beat flies. But Tyrese kind of falls back and he falls right into the leg of Embiid. Of all people. That's the worst play in basketball. I hate that play. But nevertheless, we can't put that on Embiid this series or this year, because he's not. He's only been healthy for a week.

[A]

Rich, in the end, there are a million different experiences and reasons. Injury, teammates, coaches, situations, other players in the league. In the end, if you play in the league for 15 years and you come up empty handed in terms of winning a championship. But what I'm saying is because of the fact that he is injury prone, even the reason he went third overall is because coming into the league, he had an injury or else he'd have been first overall.

[B]

Wow. I wish the Cavs would have taken him.

[A]

The point is, of your windows, if you're Embiid, are fleeting. They're small and they're going to close quickly here. I know. Look, health has been a big thing. All these. All these playoffs, as it normally is. But even it seems to me bigger so far. Aunt Edwards, Luca, kd. Right there's huge. So I understand that health is a thing. I'm saying right now. They're healthy right now and they have the better top end talent in this series. If they can. It's a big if. But if they can remain healthy, they have to beat the. If you're Embiid, you gotta beat the next.

[B]

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is. What you're saying is. Here's an opportunity for you to win. Go and win. Great. But also what I'm saying is he's been only healthy for a week.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

So, yeah, you want to go and win, but it's unlikely. Healthy for a week, Rich.

[A]

It's unlikely. It was also unlikely that, that LeBron James won in 16 against that. Against that Golden State team. That was unlikely. You have to. It was unlikely that Muhammad Ali could beat George Foreman or Sonny Liston. The reason people remember, it was unlikely. Very unlikely. He was a huge underdog when he won the title.

[B]

Why? Because he was older?

[A]

No, when he was young, Sonny Liston was the original Mike Tyson. He was killing everybody. And he and Ali was. He came in Cassius Clay, an 8 to 1 underdog. Liston was supposed to knock him out in place the first. First round when he won the title originally.

[B]

I believe that. Yeah.

[A]

And Liston, Sonny Liston.

[B]

And I wasn't even born.

[A]

Sonny Liston was, if you had to say, the most intimidating athletes any sport who ever lived. Sonny Liston might be number one. Any sport. He had the whole sports world shook. John Kennedy, the President didn't want Floyd Patterson to even give Liston the title shot because he was the thumb breaker for the mob, basically. They didn't want a dude like that as heavyweight champ. Like it was like that. He had the presidential. Everyone was shook of Sonny Liston. But the reason you know Muhammad Ali's name is because you got to do that. You got to go beat Sonny Liston, you got to beat George Foreman, you got to do the impossible. You got to LeBron James, you got to beat the 73 win team. Right? You still know LeBron James name, but he's not thought of quite in the same way if he doesn't do the impossible. So. So here's a little window. This is what I'm saying. It is unlikely. On the other hand, it's very possible because they have the high end talent. If Embiid wants to ever be in conversations with guys like Jokic who want a chip, you got to go do it.

[B]

Let's be honest, Max, the Sixers are overachieving right now. They're overachieving.

[A]

Just said Embiid, Maxey, Paul George and Edgecombe.

[B]

But they're overachieving. First of all, Edge Coleman is a

[A]

rookie, but he's developing before our eyes. And he was the third best rookie in the league this year.

[B]

But you can't expedite that.

[A]

And the other two guys aren't in the playoffs anymore.

[B]

Fair. But they're overachieving this year at the beginning of the season, no one had

[A]

the Sixers because no one assumed health. Based on the histories, I'm saying lightning in a bottle. Here's your window. You're healthy right now.

[B]

I understand. No, I'm all for you what you're saying, but I just like to keep

[A]

things in perspective for those who find what I'm saying overly reductive. Right? Oh, you're just me. It's not a one on one sport. You can't just make it about championships. It's not a one on one sport. You can't just make it about championships. At this level. I will absolutely make it about championships.

[B]

Many people figure it out that a team sport is a number one is a is a is an individual sport. But in but the everyone's take is from an individual sport perspective from if

[A]

you're a great quarterback and you have had bites at the apple, of course it's ultimate team sport is football. So many moving parts. But if you're a great quarterback and you've been on a bunch of playoff teams, right. Even playoff teams that have advanced, meaning you're good enough. Stop. If you're a great quarterback, win one now they're exception to the rule. Jim Kelly, right. Exception to the rule. He's obviously as great as some other quarterbacks who've won. Dan Marino here and there. There are guys like that. But there's also a reason that Dan Marino does not get mentioned with Tom Brady and Joe Montana, even though talent wise above those guys. Got to win one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Got to win at least one.

[B]

All right. But the problem I got with that is again, it's a team sport.

[A]

Game over is brought to you by FanDuel, and FanDuel is giving you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long with more ways to build and more value every time you play. You can stack your picks your way for every game, every matchup and every moment. From spreads to player points to threes and more. Build it all into one same game parlay and go for bigger payouts. So if you're betting same game parlays this NBA postseason, bet them on FanDuel. More options, better payouts. All NBA playoffs long. Head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. FanDuel official partner of the NBA play your game 21 and over. Select states 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic this episode is brought to

[B]

you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced wi, fi, phone, tv, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business so visit spectrum.com business to learn more Restrictions apply Services not available in

[A]

all areas can LeBron James and the Lakers do the impossible and upset a team that has taken them to the woodshed in the regular season and is the defending champions and right now looks next to unbeatable? Even without J Dub, it won't be easy.

[B]

But again, just like the last series, I find it funny they playing back all the people on these shows that said, oh, they got no chance, they're going to get swept weapon this and that.

[A]

I thought so until KD got hurt. I was like, well that's a wrap.

[B]

I also said to you that he always plays better with less. Remember I said that on the show, 100%. Not that I predicted him to win the series, but I said there's a chance. When you in these type of situations, the role players have to play this type of role.

[A]

LeBron's issue has never been if you wanted to pick one player who ever lived who could take four guys from the Y and and get to the finals, it's LeBron James. The issue for LeBron has been when he's more crude up now the expectations are you actually get over the top. He hasn't always done that. Right. But he's always been able to take just a bunch of other guys who are just guys and get to the

[B]

final 10 out of 23 years.

[A]

Yes. Nuts.

[B]

And that's. And it's not like he had a whip in terms of front office decisions, trade deadline, acquisitions, free. Like.

[A]

Well, when you look a lot, people

[B]

put a lot on going to Miami.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I saw somebody talking about it the other day, it's like, oh, well, when he decided to go to Miami, he only decided to go to Miami because he didn't feel as if he would get the right pieces around him where he was at. So what? Because, because there's a, you're in a lose, lose situation that way and this is how people trap things. Oh, he went to Miami. So he, he, he, he stacked the deck. Yeah, he sold out. He stacked the deck. Well, not really because especially back then, if you had three max players, which all three of them took less. Mike Miller was, I think Mike Miller was getting 9 million that year. And then from there, everyone else, especially at that time, is basically on a minimum.

[A]

Minimum.

[B]

Yeah. So there's a very scarce. You're very. That team is top heavy. But it's scarcity in terms of depth. So when I see a lot of people talk about these things, it's like,

[A]

well, but that's what I mean, Rich, in the end, you're right. I mean, but if he does. But people are not going to look that closely at the game.

[B]

I know. Because they don't want to. But here's my. Here's also.

[A]

Just get it done.

[B]

Yeah, but here's what I'm trying to tell you. Yeah, you could take that perspective, which is fine. But here's the other thing. The other thing is, this is why you in the. Lose, lose. The other thing is. Oh, you know what? No, we think you should stay where you at and don't get to players,

[A]

take what you get and be happy.

[B]

And then we're going to say, oh, you couldn't get it.

[A]

No, no, no, no, never mind that.

[B]

No, right. Yeah, but go ahead.

[A]

Okay, so first of all, the first time in 07, that's to LeBron's credit, they had zero chance of winning.

[B]

And I saw Bruce Bourne.

[A]

Let's just count them up.

[B]

Talking on the show. I'm like, man, what.

[A]

But hold on, Rich, there are. There are. There are 07. Forget it. Two of the finals against the warriors, who had won 73 games and then dropped Kevin Durant in his prime.

[B]

You know, I don't get it.

[A]

So that's. Hold on. That's three that you cannot count against LeBron. He just gets credit for those. So, however, the first one and the fourth one in Miami, you could say you had chances to win, you didn't win.

[B]

It's okay.

[A]

You don't have to win the championship every single time again. But that's two. And those were the two that you could say could have won those.

[B]

Well, the first year, when Kyrie and Kev goes down. 20. 15.

[A]

Excuse me, 15 to his credit. In fact, when I think of 15, I don't even think about the fact that the warriors wound up winning. I thought about the fact that LeBron was so clearly the best player in the world by the time that series MVP on the losing team, even though they didn't give it to him, but they did, because giving it to Iggy was really giving it to LeBron. They were saying, we're not going to give it to a player on the losing team. We'll give it to the guy who guarded him.

[B]

Yes. All I'm saying is you.

[A]

So that's four. You can't blame him.

[B]

Right, But I'm not even. And again, I don't want to be biased to LeBron because as you. We talk, you, you know, I call it down the middle in a lot of. Lot of cases. Yeah.

[A]

But very pro LeBron for obvious reasons.

[B]

I am pro LeBron. Yeah, of course. But. But man. But I also know what it takes and what it takes to actually win. So. But anyway, what you.

[A]

So what? So can they possibly win? You can they? Can they. Luca comes back at some point in the series, can they be down two games to one and then Luca comes back and they catch lightning in a

[B]

bottle, in my opinion. I think the Lakers have always struggled with the speed of a game. When a team plays fast, the slower the pace, the better chance they have, in my opinion.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now in this case, for obvious reasons,

[A]

they don't have great athletes and they're old.

[B]

Yeah. In this case, this is a very young team. Championship team. Pardon? Confident team plays well gelled. With a guy like Shay who's putting pressure on you, getting, you know, getting to his step back, getting to his mid range. The biggest thing about OKC to me is they have all guys. When I talk about effort and energy, they bring effort and energy every night with skill set and talent that's tough to beat.

[A]

Think about Shay and maybe I've been doing them a disservice. When you see a guy, the reason that there's a generation who grew up with Kobe who incorrectly thinks of him as the greatest player ever, because he's directly comparable to Mike and he loses the comparison in every way. Like he loses that, but it's. He makes it close, but he loses decisively is because Kobe could do the impossible. Kobe could somehow hit a shot. There's no way anyone could. How did he do that? Right. So that guy registers in your mind in a certain way. Whereas Shay just makes the game easy. He doesn't do things that you go, oh my God, how did he do that? He's just like an efficient machine. So his talent does not jump at you like Kobe. And he doesn't have the wow factor as Kobe, but when you look down, his team won and he was. And he scored an incredibly efficient 33 points and he played defense in the whole thing. And a guy like that running a machine like OKC is tough to beat.

[B]

Yeah. When you think about this, just think about the build of the team. Caruso, Dort, Cason, Wallace.

[A]

Right.

[B]

If, if. If we were looking at okc, like the type of dogs that people have Caruso and Casey Wallace endured. You know, I want to build a team of dogs. Me?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

If I'm, if I'm putting my GM hat on.

[A]

I like where this is going. Tell me the breeds.

[B]

I want to build a team of dogs. So Caruso, Wallace and Dort. These are pit bulls? Yeah, they're pit bulls. Right. Then I have Shea Shay is my Westminster. What would he be? A Doberman.

[A]

Doberman, you think? Yeah, just, you know, I would say he has to be a highly intelligent dog.

[B]

Okay, what's the most intelligent dog?

[A]

That dog won't be big and strong enough.

[B]

Enough.

[A]

Well, like a Jack Russell Terry or something.

[B]

I don't think we could say. Not that, but I would just say, you know, looks great, long arms, can go. Can get to spots, shoots the three. Well, finished at the rim. Well, let's just say he's a prize winning Doberman.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Then I have my Great Dane in check.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's my Great Dane. Okay. Okay. Then I bring guys like Wiggins and, and, and, and what's my other guy?

[A]

So you're talking about, like Australian Ridgebacks?

[B]

Isaiah Joe. Just the shooters. Isaiah.

[A]

I thought Wiggins. I thought you meant athletic dude.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, just Isaiah Joe Wiggins. These guys are like boxers.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

Right. They come in. Whatever, dude. And then.

[A]

Yeah, Isaiah Joe. Isaiah Joe just hit that shot.

[B]

I mean, the other, the other J Dub who's not playing, so he's injured. He would be my Rottweiler. Beautiful Rottweiler. And then, you know who's my dog that just. It's that dog in the yard. And he's just Scrappy the mutt. Well, I won't call him a mutt

[A]

for the sake of guard dog.

[B]

I'm talking about people. But I'm saying outside dog. He's just a dog. He's just a dog.

[A]

Junkyard dog.

[B]

And he'll bite his owner. He'll bite the mailman. He'll bite kids get off the school bus, he'll buy anybody. Don't matter. That to me is the other Williams, Jalen Williams. Because he's. He shoots threes, he makes the hustle, plays, et cetera.

[A]

So Jalen Williams be the leading scorer on a lot of teams.

[B]

Yeah, you have to have a. No, the other Jalen Williams. I'm saying the one big Jalen Williams. Big Jalen Williams.

[A]

Oh, you were saying the injured Jalen Williams is your rottweiler.

[B]

Rottweiler. Beautiful Rottweiler. The other Jalen Williams is just my. He's going to bite the person who feeds him. I'm biting you. I'm biting the kids. Get off the bus. I'm biting the mailman. The mail lady.

[A]

This is the guy who makes the mailman nervous.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's no leash. There's no. You know, I grew up in the neighborhood where there's a fence, but you might as well not have a fence because there's no gate on the fence, so you could just walk through. And the dog is in the yard with no leash. So he comes and goes as he, as he. As he pleases. So you got to have a team of. Of makeup of dogs. Like that's how I would look at it.

[A]

And what do the Lakers have?

[B]

Well, I don't want to get into all of that. What I'm saying is. What I'm saying is that's just a tough thing. So now just name the whole team

[A]

of fighting Dogs this series. They have any fighting Dogs.

[B]

Well, this series is where I believe Luka's going to really be missed because when you think about that ball press pressure that OKC can place is different now. And, and don't get me wrong, Houston did a really good job with I'm. I'm in. And also Tar Eason at times putting the ball pressure there.

[A]

But man, but the Lakers, the Lakers, if they can. Can they steal one of the first three games? Can they do that and then. And then you get Luka back.

[B]

Yes, that. That would. You would need to prolong the series to hope that you have.

[A]

You know what the problem is, Rich? This is what's going to hurt the Lakers. Unless there's. I'm not wishing this into existence, obviously knock wood. But injuries have played a huge factor in these playoffs. If there's a key injury on okc, maybe barring that, if the Lakers could steal one of the first three games, Luka comes back. I'm saying they're losing that first game for sure that Luca comes back because

[B]

chemistry just been out big a piece

[A]

just to slide in and everyone's got to figure things out. At best they can win the second game. Luka comes back. Now they're down three games to two.

[B]

Here's what I will say.

[A]

And they have to win on the road again.

[B]

Here's what I will say to close the game in the event, if I'm the Lakers, this is my mentality going in first and foremost. I'm not going in with the mindset that we cannot win this series or we cannot win a game in this series. That has to be your first checkpoint. Because mentally if you go into a series and you already think that we can't win, then that's just what it is. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, I know for sure we cannot turn the ball over. At the rate we turn the ball over against Houston, we just can't do it. Can't have 20 turnovers, okay, that's number two and then number three. We got to make shots. We got to make shots. We gotta control pace because pace is very important. And look, OKC don't really have any holes, but wherever they do have holes at, we have to try to exploit that to give ourselves a chance.

[A]

What you're really saying is that's how you steal one game?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Kennard and Marcus Smart and Austin Reeves and all these guys are hot from outside and the Lakers get one, that could easily happen. And if they get one and Luka can come back, say by game three, and if they could be down three, I'm saying this, if they're down three games to two heading into game six

[B]

at home, they could make it interesting.

[A]

They. It would require a major injury on okc.

[B]

Well, we don't want that.

[A]

I know, but I'm just saying, like if something were to happen to Shea or to Chet. No, yeah, no, maybe they would have.

[B]

No, we don't, we don't want that.

[A]

I think there's no like speaking it into existence. I'm not saying like analyzing what could possibly.

[B]

But you just go out and you make it a very competitive people. Just. Look, no one's going to pick the Lakers to win this. No one picked them to win the Rockets.

[A]

The first fight I ever did for HBO was Mayweather, Gatti, okay? And I was at. Bob Costas asked me how could Gatti win the fight. And the best thing I could come up with for the broadcast was Mayweather had bad hands. He used to hurt his hands. And if Floyd was hitting Gatti so much that he broke both of his hands, which could happen because I'd seen him fight one handed before. Gatti could win the fight. Barring that, there was literally no way Gatti could win.

[B]

But here's what I ask you. Do you have any expectation of the Lakers winning at all?

[A]

Not as currently constituted. No.

[B]

You didn't with the Rocket series or you don't now.

[A]

Right, But KD got hurt. That's why I'm saying. Well, once KD got hurt, I thought, oh, wait a Minute. Now the Lakers have the best player in the series.

[B]

KD didn't play Game one.

[A]

Yeah, but going into the series, I didn't think they were going to. But when KD got hurt, I changed my tune.

[B]

Okay? Yeah, I'm not.

[A]

I'm not saying that's why I'm saying that's the only path I can see.

[B]

Yeah, it's not a negative thing. I'm just asking because obviously no one's going to pick the Lakers to win.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So basically, the Lakers are playing with house money.

[A]

House money. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. No one's expecting to win. The difference between this series and last series is had the Rockets came back from three one, they. They would have made it about LeBron, right? Yes. They would have made everyone.

[A]

I think LeBron gets credit for this. I think he absolutely gets credit for this.

[B]

Yeah, they would have made it about LeBron. The reason why you don't hear a lot of conversation about Jokic is because I don't believe people. People are happy to see Jokic lose.

[A]

I agree with that. Right. Because they came out defensively, preemptively, saying, oh, anyone who says blah, blah, blah about Jokic, it's like, hold on, calm down. You think people like me are going to say, oh, well, I guess I can't say anything.

[B]

Get the fuck.

[A]

Let's look Jokic, if you are one of the very greatest players who ever lived, what just happened can't happen.

[B]

Not allowed to happen. Right. But when LeBron loses, people are happy to see him lose.

[A]

There's something about that, especially his peers,

[B]

guys that played in the league that have platforms today for different reasons, it's extra. They are happy to see him lose for whatever reason. I don't know. I mean, I don't know, but that's just how I feel. And I think it's true from a media perspective. And we talked about this the other day when I said that you shouldn't be able to talk, 99.9%, blah, blah, blah. What I really meant by that is the media critics, they could. Look, critique is good in sports. Of course you should be able to critique. If an agenda comes with your critique, then we have to remove your critique. Your critique, your critique isn't accepted. But from a media perspective, these people are just doing their jobs.

[A]

You have former players need to be better than the player they're criticizing. Well, the only person they do. Everyone go running to Michael Jordan to talk about LeBron. No one else would be allowed to talk about LeBron. That was my point.

[B]

But some Players. Yes. Because some players. I see the extra sauce.

[A]

Yeah. I talk about this with people who always argue LeBron over MJ in the media. I can see for whom it is an emotional issue they need.

[B]

Yeah, but we have the tapes.

[A]

I can see like, Kobe stands, LeBron stands. I can see who needs their hero of their formative years to be the goat. And that's why they construct those arguments. But what you're saying about LeBron is a lot of the haters are contemporary players of his who were jealous of the. Were envious of the media attention that he got. Would that be fair?

[B]

It's deeper than that.

[A]

Deeper.

[B]

Yeah. But.

[A]

So let's get.

[B]

They're happy to see him lose.

[A]

What's deeper?

[B]

I just think that in our community, it makes you feel better when someone else has a thing of detriment placed upon them because of what you. You lack and what you always wanted. So that's something you're born. That's the DNA of our communities. Like, we're born into that.

[A]

This is a phenomenon you see in American history, rich with. Like you would see.

[B]

And an athlete is not an exception.

[A]

So at a certain point in American history, you would see much more kind of progressive views on race from the Irish in Ireland versus the Irish Americans. Right? You go back 100 years because the Irish Americans were severely discriminated against. You would have signs in stores that said, nina, no Irish need apply. Don't even apply for the job. Right? And then you got a certain vitriol from those Irish Americans who were discriminated against. Who you think would feel a kinship, for example, with African Americans. Right. With black Americans, because of how they're just. But it was the opposite. A lot of the time. It was. They became some of the most kind of viciously racist because there's the natural human phenomenon where a human being doesn't want to feel like they are on the bottom of the bottom rung, that there's something beneath them. Because if you can't climb up or you're prevented from climbing up, at least if you can put something below you, you're not on the bottom.

[B]

That.

[A]

That's. That's human.

[B]

And I want to be clear. Like, I'm not. I'm not saying that Nobody's above critique. LeBron's not. I'm not. Nobody is above critique. But I'm telling you, it's a deeper thing, and I feel the effects of it because I've had NBA current players and former players involve themselves in. In a recruiting process with a kid that's not their son and purposely push a kid to a different agency because of their disdain for LeBron. And I'm his guy, so I know what happens and what's to be true. So that's when I.

[A]

Someone else's success makes you feel bad about you because it places.

[B]

You know, that's just been it for. We have to. And that's the thing. We have to overcome so much to be successful. And success isn't just from a financial perspective, just to be positioned to where you can always be in position. That is the true success. Being positioned to a point to where you always be in position is success. To me, the financial part of it comes with the positioning. If I'm not in position, then there's no. Then there's no gain. There's no monetary gain for me. If I'm not in position, well, haterism

[A]

is based on some kind of insecurity or some kind of sense that you've underachieved or what you don't have makes you feel bad about you. And so if you can't climb up, you bring everyone down. By the way, it's basically Russia's world strategy right now. You don't have let's bring everyone else down. We can't come up.

[B]

When you use the term hater, Max, in our community, that lets them off the hook, right? Because that term is like, oh, you just a hater. To me, that lets them off the hook. It's deeper than that. And I see it. I feel it. I've been felt. You gotta remember, this is what I always try to tell people. We have the tapes. Not only do we have the tape, I didn't watch it. I was there. Me and Rip was just talking about this in my. And he was like. I'm like, rip, do people forget that? That I was there? Like, I was literally. It wasn't like I was looking out of my project window. I was there. So it's a deeper thing. We can get into it another time because I know you're dapper today. I know you have to do a ribbon cutting, but. But. But nevertheless. So I just feel like even in this series, whatever happens, even though you're saying they playing with the house, people will find a way for it to be a negative thing for us.

[A]

Look, we live in a big world with social media. We have a variety of opinions, but

[B]

he's not above critique.

[A]

We can focus on the negative opinions, Rich, but I dismiss those. If you are focusing on a negative opinion of a 41 year old who just beat a team that was favored to beat them in the playoffs without the two other best players on the team, largely. I mean, Austin Reeves came back at the end. It's ridiculous. LeBron just gets credit for what he accomplishes now. You don't take credit away from what he does at 49.

[B]

I don't think he needs any more credit at this point. He don't need any more credit.

[A]

What about Kevin Durant? Where's Kevin Durant in all this? Because a report came out that his burner account hurt team chemistry. And by the way, easy to believe, because when those reports came out, the first thing I'm thinking is, man, I hope that's not true. But it's not like he hasn't had burner accounts in the past. And he's ripping teammates. I was thinking, oh, this ain't good. And then you wonder why KD has gone from team to team to team. And given the fact that in a vacuum, if you don't even think about how it actually played out, if you just took a player and said, like, KD should be the greatest player of all time. He's not, but he should be. In fact, I would say after LeBron at the position, it's Larry Bird. And then you could talk about kd. Because the only time KD has won a championship is when he was parachuted.

[B]

Is he 5 minute max onto a team?

[A]

No, I don't need to. Do I have a five minute max. We can save it because I know we're heavy. But where he's parachuted onto a team that just won 73 games and barely lost the finals, it's the only championships he ever won. He won two. Do you think the Rockets move on

[B]

from KD in this offseason? No. No, I don't think so. I mean, look, when you make a decision like the decision that was made, that decision is made because in your mind, you feel like this places us in the Western Conference finals or the finals, so you're expediting the championship journey, or you believe that this will place us right there. That's the only way. You trade a Dillon Brooks and a Jalen Green, two young guys, to already go with your young core and. And you anchored by a Fred Van

[A]

Fleet, who was unfortunately hurt or may have been very different.

[B]

Greatly missed this year, obviously, but that's the only way you would do that. And I think that because you made that move, it'll be very hard for you to get off of him this summer. But it's not impossible. You could, because part of it is, part of running an organization is being able to look at something and say, you know what?

[A]

Cut my losses. Yeah, here's the thing about KD Rich. If it was, if it was his burner, right then to me, I would like to see some accountability from him. Just KD come out and say, listen, I should not have done that. Right? I think whatever it did to the team, whether we would have won or not, it probably didn't help. I shouldn't have done it. Da da da da. If he did that, I think. I think it would help whatever situation he ever goes to. Now, if it was his burner, if

[B]

it wasn't, I don't know. I don't. I don't know the truth behind that, but

[A]

this episode's brought to you by McDonald's level up your day with the under $3 menu at McDonald's. A sausage McMuffin for just a dollar fifty and when it's time for lunch, grab a McDouble. Only two hundred and fifty McValue makes sure you can power up without losing too many coins. $1.50 sausage McMuffin or 250 McDouble. Now that's a legendary drop. Get even more value with McValue only at McDonald's. I get to do this because I'm doing a McDonald's read, but a bup buh buh. How do I do? Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery.

[C]

Snoring, Gasping during sleep? Feeling fatigued Ask your doctor about Zepbound Tirzepatide, the first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea in adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15mg injection. Zepbound contains Tirzepatide and should not be used with other Tirzepatide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing pregnant, plan to be or taking birth control pills. Taking zetbound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor, call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbound.lilly.com do you think less of

[A]

the Cavs and the Pistons because they needed seven games to get out of the first round?

[B]

No. No. What do you mean, think less? It's a seven game series because the series. Only seven games.

[A]

About their chances going forward. Like had the Cavs. Had. Had the Cavs won in five games. We might be higher on them right now.

[B]

Yeah, that's why bettors lose all the money. Listen, this is a great series for a number of different reasons. Both owners are Michigan guys, Tom Gorris and Dan Gilbert. No one has done more for Detroit, the city of Detroit, than Dan Gilbert. He just happens to own the cast, right?

[A]

Especially when he chased LeBron out of town. That was wonders for Detroit. Listen, when he chased him out of Cleveland.

[B]

Listen, Dan's a great owner, a great family. I miss my guy Nick Gilbert, who was great. And Grant's doing.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's. That's.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's my guy.

[A]

That's tough.

[B]

So. But no one does more for the city of Detroit than Dan Gilbert, the

[A]

great city of Detroit. The great city of Detroit, who everyone said during the financial crisis, you should bail out Wall street, but don't bail out Detroit because da, da, da. And actually the first place to pay back the money was Detroit. Wall street got bailed out and as usual, didn't do shit about it afterward. Detroit paid it back.

[B]

Yeah, right. And so look. And so Tom's from Michigan as well. Tom Goris. These two teams are as evenly matched as you can possibly be. Even though you would think, oh, the Cavs have more names. I like the physical toughness of, of the Pistons. And I also like J.B. bickerstaff, who's done a great job there having them number one in the East. You would say that. You know, this is one of those series, man, where I talk about team and you talk about people trying to make people into these guys that have done well before. In this series, I'm playing through Evan

[A]

Mobley since you mentioned Mobley, and I'll do a five minute max on him maybe on Wednesday. But since you mentioned Mobley a year ago, it looked like he was on his way to becoming Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan. And I don't mean this as a. I don't mean this as a thing to say. He's not doing well because Chris Bosh is a Hall of Famer and a great two way player. But at one point I was looking, I was like, can he be Tim Duncan? And now I'm wondering, can he be Chris Bosh? And again, nothing to take away. I think Bosh would tell you he's not Tim Duncan. Right. So there's a. There's a range there. And. And I'm now off of, hey, Mobley could be Tim Duncan. I don't see that in his future. I could see Bosch in his future.

[B]

Well, here's what I would say to that. I would say the NBA is all about opportunity. And it's not just starting for a team. It's, am I placed in the right position on the floor? Am I being played through at times? Am I being developed properly? Are the right pieces being added around to where we're playing, a style of play that is conducive to my game and how I would add value? So in Moby's case, I think his ceiling is through the roof in terms of talent and skill set and all of that.

[A]

But I bring up Duncan versus Bosh because again, I mean, you beat him up. But Duncan could. Can Duncan be the best player on a championship team? Yes, he could be the best player on a dynasty. Can Bosh be the best player in a championship team? No, he could be.

[B]

He never got the opportunity.

[A]

But that's because it's. You can't really build a champion, championship team. In order to build a championship team where Bosh is your best player, you need to be the 04 pistons.

[B]

It looked like it. And yes, it looked like it's super hard to do.

[A]

Much more likely that he could be the second or third best.

[B]

No, this is the reason why I always said max, and I've been saying this for 10 years now. Big threes don't work to me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because you spend all your cap space on that third player and you miss out on depth. I always like big two in depth.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And.

[A]

But your definition of a big three, which I think is the best one I've heard is where essentially all three of those players could be a 1 or a 1A on a championship team.

[B]

Bosh, that's a real big three.

[A]

Right. So they really have not existed. The closest thing is an old Kareem Magic and Worthy.

[B]

But here's the thing. If you have three number ones, they can't be similar. They have to be balance. Like I thought the closest that could have been to that would have been if Kyrie came to LA and you had Kyrie, LeBron and A.D. yeah, that was the probably most perfect balance you can get and ones.

[A]

But I don't think Kyrie is. I think Kyrie is a two on a championship.

[B]

Damn. Lie.

[A]

You think? When has Kyrie ever been a one on a championship?

[B]

Yeah, because he's always played with. No, because he played next to LeBron James.

[A]

What I'm saying is, in other words, if you're Kyrie, it takes a LeBron James to get you to a championship.

[B]

No, but what I'm saying is, if

[A]

it's a five, I'm not dissing Kyrie.

[B]

He's just showing. No, it's five for on the team. What I'm saying is any one of those guys could bring you home in a championship game.

[A]

Yes. Oh, Kyrie in the clutch.

[B]

This is my point. So the best balance for that would be at the one, at the three and at the five.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Finishing games. All right. Right. Okay.

[A]

You're saying Mobley could be a number one on a championship team is what you're saying.

[B]

No, what I'm saying is you don't

[A]

puts him above Bosh.

[B]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying we yet to see if he could or can't because Mobley is on a team where he's the ball doesn't like. They're not playing through him. You don't see him. Tim Duncan was at the pinch post where he played and you throw it to him there you had Tony Parker

[A]

and now he's making decisions. And David Robinson saw Tim Duncan as a rookie, said, we're running through him.

[B]

Right. If you played through Mobley in that

[A]

capacity, you could maybe win.

[B]

And he's going to have 20, he's going to have 25 and 12 every night.

[A]

Okay. All right, well, I'll save the rest for the five minute max on Wednesday. Love Cade. You know, the Pistons are a player short, at least. Cade is great. The player and a half.

[B]

I agree, but trades is doing a great job. That's not a knock to the Pistons again. When you have the season that they had and you get to the trade deadline, it's a tricky thing because if. Do we make a trade? Do we not make a trade? Do we see what happens in the summertime? I'm just always of the. Of the. I'm just always of the mind that you don't. You don't punt on the season. Not that they're punting on the season.

[A]

I'm just saying you had a chance to go for jugular.

[B]

Yeah, I'd rather just try to win it now.

[A]

So Rudy Gobert did the best job you could possibly do on Jokic. Yes, he did such. You know, I talked about, like, Terence Crawford fought Errol Spence a couple years ago, three, four years ago this point. And I said Crawford beat the legacy out of him almost. Right. Like, you know, people don't even remember how great Spence was because of how Crawford beat him. Gobert just played kind of part of the legacy out of. Out of Jokic just now. Can he do anything like that to Wemby?

[B]

The interesting thing is, look, these guys know each other very well. They're both French.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

They both played on the French national team. I'm sure they. They are very close friends.

[A]

Nevertheless, there is no surrender in either guy.

[B]

No. And. And I. And I saw. I saw. I saw where Gobert said something about Wimby, that, that Wimby asked him what's the. What type of filters do you have in your house from your water? And he was saying how, like, Wimy's minds work. So these guys spend a lot of time together. Yeah. I'm sure they battled in practice, so there's a lot of familiarity there. I don't think there's no such thing as, like, shutting down Wimby.

[A]

Even if you do on the other end, he's going to. Wimy's going to change the game on the other end.

[B]

Anybody knows his tendencies.

[A]

It's go.

[B]

Anybody and go.

[A]

A little physically stronger.

[B]

And Gobert's naturally a defensive guy. Naturally. But Wemby's Wemby.

[A]

So could you imagine if you made Gobert a better defensive player and then made him one of the best offensive players in the league and then made him. And then made him five inches taller.

[B]

Yeah. Then you have Wemby.

[A]

Wemby is telling everyone Wemby's the best player in basketball. By the way, Wemby's the best player in basketball by quite a bit. I think he's decisively and easily the best player.

[B]

Let's let him Win first, Max.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. All right, look, emails. I want to.

[B]

Yeah, because you got to get to a ribbon.

[A]

Yeah, I got to get to a ribbon cutting. By the way, you want to leave a voicemail? You want me the first one. 4242-408341-44240.

[B]

If you want to win some money in the lottery, play 8, 3, 41 in the pick four. He loves those $10 straight $10 box.

[A]

Max. You love a semantic debate. I do. And I would suggest. Don't be anti semantic. I nothing. I think MJ and LeBron are both the greatest of all time, but of different things. MJ's the GOAT player for all the reasons everybody knows. LeBron has had and is having unquestionably the goat basketball career, the longevity. There might never be a better pure basketball player than mj, but there will certainly not be a greater NBA career than LeBron's absent substantial medical advances. Dave in New Jersey. What Dave is pointing out, Bum Rich, is something that Bill James, who wrote a lot about baseball and then was hired by the Red Sox front office. You know, the analytics revolution in sports basically started with Bill James. He wrote. I read this when I was 13 years old. Right. This book was a bar mitzvah present that I got from someone. And this really opened my eyes. He was ranking the greatest players of all time, but he came up with two separate lists, and it made sense. He had the peak list and the career list because there's two different things. And that's what Dave is talking about. Who do you like at their peak? Who do you like for their career? Yeah, it's a good. You know, that's a good point.

[B]

Yeah. But I'm tired of the debate. Okay. You're going to never go away. It'll never go away. But the only thing I want to see now is LeBron and Michael sit down and talk about basketball and their careers and their challenges, and we talk about mind the game. That's really minding the game. All this other nonsense. I want to hear from these two guys, preferably. I would love for this to be a public thing.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure they. I'm sure there's eventually going to be a Michael Jordan interviewing LeBron or vice versa.

[B]

But if it's not a public thing, then I just hope I'm invited to the dinner.

[A]

Right, right. I'm sure you will be. You want to read the next one?

[B]

Sure. Gentlemen. Max, you are absolutely 100 correct about your best of the best conversation. Now, wait a Minute.

[A]

Well, let's see what he has to say.

[B]

This is a. Your comparisons with Jordan LeBron. Oh, my goodness. And then Magic and Bird.

[A]

He said Jordan LeBron Level 1, and

[B]

then Magic and Bird Level 2, along with Dunk and Kareem are completely accurate. You just wanted me to read this because he's giving you props for your. Oh, my goodness.

[A]

It's the first time I'm seeing this.

[B]

No one from the top two levels lose that T Wolves game. Even though I'm not the biggest Kobe fan. Kobe wins that game.

[A]

Of course he does.

[B]

Kareem Curry, Shaq Hakeem, Bill Russell, case for tiptoe. Level tip top level. Tip top level. Sorry. Win that game. That game. 10 out of 10 times a top two level all time player wins games against teams that are missing their star player and two other best guards. The elite of elite players, those at the highest two tiers, find a way to win in those situations. Top 10 is top 10 for a reason. That requires a great show.

[A]

Yeah. That requires no further like.

[B]

No, there's nothing to talk about there.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

The only thing I'm upset about or knowing about is that was all about Max and your genius.

[A]

Yes. Well, here's one for you. Okay, Rich, which LeBron do you believe was better between 2013 or 2018? I personally believe 13's the best player ever. 18 was elite, but supporting cast was nowhere near as good, so numbers were obviously deflated. 13 Bron arguably was also the defensive player of the year that season and extremely efficient on offense. Says Jalen the.

[B]

I will say this, the 13 LeBron was extremely, extremely superb because he trimmed all the fat. He trimmed all the fat. LeBron's a showman at heart. That's what he is.

[A]

He's pure basketball machine.

[B]

He trimmed all the fat. So when a guy is dialed in like that and he's trimming the fat, he was precise. Precision is such an important thing when you're talking about the game of basketball and how you approach it. Precision. So he was but 18, in my opinion. He was just having so much fun and he had came back from 31 already. He was a determined to get back. I mean, he went to four straight finals again. He went to eight straight finals for four straight, then four straight again that 18 year. Obviously Kyrie wasn't with the team anymore and they went through a couple changes, which is very hard to do. And they had a trade at the deadline, I think brought in somebody. I don't know if it was George Hill or somebody like that. I think the 18 year was different, man, because I think they were like the fourth or fifth seed, I think maybe the fourth seed. And to get to the finals that

[A]

year, and also the numbers he put up throughout the playoffs were obstacles.

[B]

That was one of his most impressive playoff seasons that I've ever seen.

[A]

It was one of the great playoff runs of all time.

[B]

Of all time. And they should have won that game. I think he had 51, 8 and 8.

[A]

I told you. I put out a tweet at the time because KD put up some ridiculous numbers, of course. Like, he's on a floor with Stephen Clay. Of course he's going to put. You can't leave those guys alone, right?

[B]

So.

[A]

But I put up his numbers that night, kd, I think when they closed him out, and then I put up like seven other games whose numbers were at least as good as that night. But I didn't identify who put them all up. And I wrote, the first one is KD tonight. The next seven are LeBron. Throughout these playoffs, he was absurd. But, Rich, the answer is very clear. 13. LeBron. And it's easy. This is what happens with MJ too easy. When they're like, MJ on the first three Pete or the second three Pete. Well, in the second three Pete, he was more of a complete stop. The first three peat MJ was easily and by far better than the second three peat mj. And the second three peat, MJ is the greatest player of all time. If not for the first three peat, mj, when the dude is young and athletic and already has championship experience, that was LeBron in 13. LeBron in 13 was one of the greatest defensive players I have ever seen.

[B]

Is that the year he should have won Defensive Player of the Year?

[A]

He was the closest thing I saw to Dennis Rodman as a defender that year. He could legit guard all five positions. He did it every night. He was impossible on offense. That's the best. LeBron.

[B]

He was possessed. He was possessed. He was possessed. Yes. So, okay, yes, 13. I agree.

[A]

13.

[B]

13. It was 13. 13. Okay, so who do you have in these series coming up? Who do you think wins game games One tonight.

[A]

We're going to get into all this on Wednesday, Rich.

[B]

No, the games are coming up.

[A]

Game one. The Knicks will win game one at home.

[B]

Okay, and who else plays tonight? Spurs.

[A]

Yeah, T. Wilson. Spurs. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Well, spurs are going to crush the T. Wolves.

[B]

So you got the spurs winning tonight.

[A]

I don't even like Spur. Like Spurs. T. Wolves Is a series where it's like, all right, if you want to watch one team steamroll another team.

[B]

No. You underestimate teams too much.

[A]

Yes. Oh, I'm underestimating the t wolves right now.

[B]

You shouldn't do that.

[A]

No, Ant. No, no.

[B]

And could come back to series.

[A]

Yeah. Like by game three. I think.

[B]

I think it's going to be a tougher series than you think.

[A]

Okay. I think it'll be a less tough series than I even think.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is that possible? Well, all right, listen, I will see you on Wednesday.

[B]

Yeah. See you on Wednesday.

[A]

Yeah. Game [e-mail] game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. I'm going to shout it out one more time. Hold on. Because you could be the lucky person who has the first ever voicemail on this show. 4242-4083-4120-4083, 41.

[B]

And you can also win a vacation if.

[A]

Did I say 20, 40. 240. 248,341. Yeah.

[B]

If you play that 83, 41 to pick four.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You can go on a nice vacation.

[A]

Feeling about 8,341 value, I guarantee you.

[B]

Somebody call in and say, rich, I played that number.

[A]

I got a ribbon cutting to go.

[B]

Okay, let's go.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Am I going with you? No.

[A]

You're welcome.

[B]

Okay, let's go.

[A]

21 and over in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat and connect Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-8-7000, 867.

[B]

The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com We've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure. Right now. Get up to 45% off site wide. Plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply.

[A]

You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's Omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome, Columbia. Engineered for whatever.