Super Bowl Week, NBA Trade Deadline, and Back-to-School Players

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul

Episode: Super Bowl Week, NBA Trade Deadline, and Back-to-School Players
Date: February 2, 2026
Host: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into three main stories at the intersection of sports and culture: Super Bowl week and its fresh slate of contenders; the tension and intrigue around the NBA trade deadline; and the new, often controversial phenomenon of NBA players returning to college basketball. Rich Paul and Max Kellerman bring in personal anecdotes, inside perspectives from Rich’s front-row view as a super-agent, spirited debate, and plenty of history to illuminate how these stories reflect wider trends in sports.

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1. Personal Style, Weekend Recaps & Music Industry Shoutouts (01:03–07:13)

• Standing on Business & Fashion:
  The show opens with playful banter about “stand on business” attire—Max in a jacket, Rich repping equestrian-inspired Ralph Lauren.

  • “There’s several ways to bring flair inside of the corporate office. And you don’t always have to have a tie on.” (Rich Paul, 01:50)

• Weekend Highlights:

  • Rich celebrates Cleveland’s Grammy wins, especially Duran Bernard and Alain Marton as hometown successes.
  • Alcaraz’s Australian Open win is briefly celebrated.
  • Max recaps the Ring Magazine Awards (Bud wins Fighter of the Year), and his favorite part—spending time with his daughter on her 11th birthday.

• Music Industry Crossovers:

  • Rich discusses music colleagues like Mike G (UTA), and Bad Bunny’s Album of the Year triumph.
  • Max and Rich reminisce about favorite teachers, sneaker facts (New Balance’s $100 shoe came first), and local high school hangouts in their youth.
  • “You were wrong about something…New Balance did have the first $100 shoe.”—Rich Paul (06:22)

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2. Super Bowl 60: Fresh Narratives (08:12–12:52)

• New Faces, New Stakes:
  Both hosts are excited for a Super Bowl that feels new: Patriots vs. Seahawks, without Belichick or Brady.

  • “It’s all brand new. Love it.” (Max Kellerman, 08:27)

• Key Gameplay Analysis:
  Max highlights a pivotal moment in the NFC Championship: Sam Darnold’s maturity in key game management, and the specter of a late-game interception haunting Seattle again.

• Predictions:

  • Rich leans toward Seattle as the stronger team but expects a close game, emphasizing Patriots’ defense, Drake May’s poise, and Stefon Diggs’ reliability.
  • “I believe in Rabel. Drake May, although he’s young, he’s very poised, very polished. And the Patriots defense are strong, and they got a lot of guys playing with a chip on their shoulder.” (Rich Paul, 11:13)
  • Max notes May’s tactical patience and chain-moving ability.

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3. NBA Trade Deadline: The Business and the Human Side (12:52–28:19)

• What Teams Should Watch:
  Max focuses on the Detroit Pistons as a surprise championship contender if they can add more shooting.

  • “Detroit… might win the championship this year anyway. It’s possible. They’re good, they’re young, they play together.” (Max Kellerman, 13:18)
  • Rich credits coaching: “JB does a hell of a job… They’re passionate about it.” (Rich Paul, 14:17)

• History & Impact of Trades:
  The duo recalls trades that transformed teams—a retroactive reevaluation of Pau Gasol to the Lakers and Rasheed Wallace to the Pistons, with personal anecdotes.

  • Rich shares that trades are often harder on players/families than fans realize: “It’s a tough time, man… you have to uproot your family.” (21:04)
  • They cite the J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert trades to Cleveland as key for title runs and development.

• Agent’s Perspective on Trades:
  Rich gives insight into the role of agents in the process—most deals are known well in advance to help players prepare, but the rare surprise does happen (cites the AD/Luka deal as one exception).

• Tax & Roster Mechanics:
  They break down reasons for deadline moves: escaping luxury-tax “aprons,” collecting draft capital, or making that one piece move in the arms race of the conference.

  • Rich: “It always takes two to tangle. In my position, I’m in the middle of it all, but it’s always a surprise every year.” (25:10)

• Psychology of Contention:
  Max suggests that in a wide-open East, teams can’t get complacent:

  • “It’s always dangerous to think, oh, it don’t matter, we’ll just get back here next year. That doesn’t happen like that.” (Rich Paul, 26:31)

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4. Player Returns to College: Navigating the New Landscape (29:24–41:35)

• Contemporary Debate:
  • The hosts tackle the growing trend of pro players returning to college, spurred by NIL deals.
  • Max: “Who cares if an NBA player goes back to college? …If LeBron James wants to go back to school… Go to college. If you, once you are in college, want to play basketball, why should you not be allowed to play basketball?” (38:53)
• Rich’s Nuanced View:
  While acknowledging that NIL deals have changed incentives, Rich worries about the “ecosystem,” fears of stalling new talent, and the immense peer/family pressure on prospects to go pro too quickly.
  • “The worst thing you can be is athletic because you become so dependent on your athleticism that you don’t learn the other parts of the game.” (Rich Paul, 41:09)
• Developmental Concerns:
  They discuss how, in past decades, longer college stays produced stars and better development, while now the path is more pressure-filled and transactional.
  • Max: “The star system, the American college star-making machine, once upon a time, which with NIL might come back...”
  • NCAA’s diminished “traditional” role, to its new, quasi-professional reality—“It’s no more college basketball. It’s basically semi or pro basketball within a student athlete ecosystem.” (Rich Paul, 32:33)

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5. Marketability, the Future of the NBA, and American Stars (41:35–48:59)

• Who Will Carry the NBA?
  • Max: NBA’s shot to surpass MLB in American popularity depends on marketing an American-born star (like Anthony Edwards) rather than solely on international superstars (e.g., Jokic).
  • “I think in order for that [NBA overtaking MLB] to happen in this country, you have to have an American born player as the face of the league.” (Max Kellerman, 47:43)
  • Rich welcomes the rise of global talent, advocating for developing the U.S. youth system to maintain balance in homegrown stars.

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6. NBA All-Star Discussion: Starters, Snubs & Format Changes (52:38–61:06)

• All-Star Selections:

  • Starters: Luka, Steph, Jokic, Shai, Wemby (West); Giannis, Jalen Brown, Brunson, Cade, Maxey (East).
  • Max and Rich agree on deserving players but debate snubs—Sengun missing out, Kawhi getting edged out for a spot.
    • “Kawhi’s been better than LeBron this year. Like, he should be on the team.” (Max Kellerman, 57:06)

• All-Star Format:

  • Both are open to USA vs. World or a return to East vs. West.
  • Rich: “I’m down to try it. Why not?” (58:39)
  • Max wants a more competitive game, Rich stands by the tradition of All-Star as fun more than fierce competition.

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7. Prize Moments & Quotes

• On trade logistics:
  • “You have to uproot your family... It is a major thing. And for us, it has to be business as usual. And it’s business.” (Rich Paul, 21:04)
• On player development:
  • “The worst thing you can be is athletic because you become so dependent on your athleticism that you don’t learn the other parts of the game.” (Rich Paul, 41:09)
• On All-Star game tradition:
  • “All-Star games have always been played the same way. We have this revisionist history.” (Rich Paul, 60:52)
• On NBA’s chance to surpass MLB:
  • “I think in order for that to happen in this country, you have to have an American born player as the face of the league.” (Max Kellerman, 47:43)

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8. Noteworthy Timestamps

• 01:03 — Personal style, weekend highlights, and Grammy wins
• 08:26 — Super Bowl 60 preview, Patriots vs. Seahawks
• 12:52 — NBA Trade Deadline: team strategies and historical impact
• 21:04 — The human cost of trades for players and families
• 29:24 — College returnees in the NIL era: cultural and competitive factors
• 41:43 — American vs. international stars and the future of NBA popularity
• 52:38 — NBA All-Star debate: snubs, fairness, and potential format tweaks

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Conclusion

Max and Rich wrap their conversation with a look ahead to Super Bowl predictions and a commitment to following the trade deadline’s surprises, emphasizing the ongoing evolution of player agency and the sport’s business landscape. The episode’s exchanges balance analysis, humor, nostalgia, and candor—an invitation for fans to see sports as both spectacle and deeply human endeavor.

Transcript

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Max Kellerman]

Rich, what happened to stand on business Monday?

[Rich Paul]

What do you mean?

[Max Kellerman]

You got me in a jacket and this is really.

[Rich Paul]

Are you kidding me?

[Max Kellerman]

But stand on business, it was always when you either had a tie on or a sport coat or something.

[Rich Paul]

All right, listen, there's several ways to stand on business, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, put me up on this.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying. You don't like the look?

[Max Kellerman]

Looks good.

[Rich Paul]

Love the equestrian for Kaylee. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you did that for Kayleigh?

[Rich Paul]

See?

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, that's very. That's very. Look at me. Same thing. Listen, that's what I did for her too.

[Rich Paul]

Look, I was just gonna say you look great today, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Thank you.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know why you would think I'm not standing on business today.

[Max Kellerman]

Only because I interpreted that as meaning that it's like more business attire. You see what I mean?

[Rich Paul]

See, you've always worked in a corporate setting.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's true, I haven't. I've never really had a real job. I mean I waited tables, I attended.

[Rich Paul]

Bar when I was a. There's several ways to bring flair inside of the corporate office. And you don't always have to have a tie on, you don't always have to have on a button up shirt and you don't always have to have on a blazer. And you can still look very business, professional standing on business, you know.

[Max Kellerman]

So I see equestrian today.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, Ralph. Ralph is going to be equestrian. Just. That's just his thing.

[Max Kellerman]

You have a good weekend?

[Rich Paul]

I had a really good weekend. I'm gonna tell you something. I wanna shout out, I wanna make. Cause you know, Cleveland was in the house in the Grammys, Ohio was fully in the house. You know, Duran Bernard, who went to Glenville, I keep telling you about my community, the Glenville community, just. I mean, it's just talent came from there. Also Alain Marton, okay. Also won a Grammy. I watched the Grammys. I watched, you know, a little basketball. What else? You know, Alcaraz won the Australian Open, which was a tough one for. For Novak, but it's a good weekend and the weather was incredible.

[Max Kellerman]

I wouldn't know.

[Rich Paul]

It's 83 degrees.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me see. I was in New York. It was 2 degrees, not 83. It was 2.

[Rich Paul]

Well, you had to go. How was the party?

[Max Kellerman]

It was. Well, it was the Ring Magazine Awards.

[Rich Paul]

I saw that.

[Max Kellerman]

I hosted.

[Rich Paul]

I saw that.

[Max Kellerman]

And that went well. You know, Bud one Fighter of the Year and he deserved it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But his trainer didn't get Trainer of the Year because that happened a lot of people. There's this fighter, Inoue, the Monster, they call him. Right. Great fighter rampaging through weight classes. And there was a little debate. Should budget Fighter of the Year. Should Inoue. But of course, Bud has to get Fighter of the Year. So I think they give Inoue's trainer Fighter of the Year Trainer of the Year instead of buds, because that way they're at least giving Inoue a nod.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, also, Bad Bunny won album of the Year. He's UTA client. My colleagues. Congratulations to my colleagues there, JBO and Nigel and their team, Tony. And, you know, it's just been great. It's great.

[Max Kellerman]

And my favorite part of the weekend, you're right. Is my daughter Mira turned 11. I got to see her on her birthday. That was the best part.

[Rich Paul]

That was the best part.

[Max Kellerman]

That was easily the best part. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. You know, I have some good colleagues. My guy, Mike G really called me. He was pissed off about all the noise and he put up a nice post about me. So what did he say? It was just nice.

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, what noise?

[Rich Paul]

It was a while ago, but when I was thinking about our music colleagues. Mike G is a big time music agent at uta, so.

[Max Kellerman]

So you mean the noise that come out of this podcast as a reaction to this stuff? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

A lot of times it's not even what you say. It's what I say. But you're sitting next to me and they'll be like, I don't.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, we don't. Yeah, we moved on from that. But I just. I just. It just reminded me of how great people I work with, my colleagues. Right. Just nice people. So Mike G. Mike G. No, Mike G's a. He's a real guy. He's my guy. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Got shouted out. There was a. Mike G. Got shouted out on the Jungle Brothers record in 1988.

[Rich Paul]

The Jungle Brothers.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. True blue Brothers. And I've been to many places you never discover. Yeah. Here you go. Hold on. Were you even born back?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

That's like 88, by the way.

[Rich Paul]

88. 88. I was wearing the. The African medallions.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. I was.

[Rich Paul]

We used to go to a place called Miss O. It was on. It was on Euclid, right there. Euclid. At the bottom of Euclid. And Taylor and I used to go in there. Cause I had a thing. I had the Nike. I had a crew where we would wear certain shoes, you know, back then.

[Max Kellerman]

On certain days.

[Rich Paul]

On certain days, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was. That was my second grade year. Let me see.

[Max Kellerman]

Who.

[Rich Paul]

Let me see. I was in Mr. Kaplan's class my second grade year. Yeah. I had Ms. Golden, Ms. Brister, Mr.

[Max Kellerman]

Kaplan, who was your favorite teacher in elementary school?

[Rich Paul]

Probably. Ms. Golden was my kindergarten teacher. She was my favorite. But all my teachers was great.

[Max Kellerman]

Cause I had a definite favorite in elementary School. Mr. Goldstein, fifth grade. Used to let us push all the desks and chairs, PS41. To the perimeter of the classroom every day. And during. We had 45. And we could pop in a tape. We'd have, like, Run dmc and we could pop and break. Like it was like a party every day for 45 minutes.

[Rich Paul]

And you were wrong about something.

[Max Kellerman]

What's that?

[Rich Paul]

Dean and I fact checked this.

[Max Kellerman]

Go ahead.

[Rich Paul]

New Balance did have the first $100 shoe.

[Max Kellerman]

Really?

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

I should know better than to argue with you about the price of sneakers.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying it's not whether you was wrong or right.

[Max Kellerman]

I just remember my father coming home in the 80s. I was probably in the fifth grade or something like that. And what did I know? New Balance, whatever. We had, like, Roos Kangaroos. Remember that?

[Rich Paul]

Roos. Yeah, Roos Lottos.

[Max Kellerman]

And he came back with New Balances, like the New. And I remember it being, like, expensive. Like 80 bucks or something like that.

[Rich Paul]

Remember, that was the consumer. The target consumer was that executive that ran their exercises was running.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? Right.

[Rich Paul]

And so it was the comfort. It actually made sense.

[Max Kellerman]

It's like Anchorman. There's a new thing called jogging or yogging. I'm not sure how you pronounce it. Yeah, everyone got into it.

[Rich Paul]

That blazer looks as if it costs a lot of money. So I think we might want to pay some bills.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's do it. Okay, Rich, Game over. Max Kellerman. Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Please subscribe and please give comments because we're trying to get better as a team, and Max is on me. Care about your comments, not the, you know, not the BS Comments. I'm talking about people that's actually listening and wanting to.

[Max Kellerman]

You mean the real fans who are.

[Rich Paul]

Trying to be consistent, build a really great show. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But, Max, I don't care about your comments either today.

[Rich Paul]

I just want to let you know you can't rant crazy today. I gotta be in and out.

[Max Kellerman]

All right?

[Rich Paul]

I have to be in the office.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, listen, I got a show to do after this one.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, well, I'm just letting you know, you don't want that. They should have gave you a Grammy for the best rant of the year.

[Max Kellerman]

Which one?

[Rich Paul]

Max Kellerman. The best rant of the year.

[Max Kellerman]

Which one?

[Rich Paul]

I know.

[Max Kellerman]

I got another one today. I got another rant today.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, God. We'll make it two minutes. Now.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's talk about the super bowl, though, because it's super. You know, we're in the weekend coming up.

[Rich Paul]

They just landed in market.

[Max Kellerman]

I love the fact that, you know, it's new. Everything about this is new. You have the Patriots and the Seahawks. Yeah. They played however many years, 11 years ago, I guess now, but it's completely new. The Patriots are back in the Super Bowl. No Belichick, no Brady. Right. The Seahawks are there with Sam Darnt. Like, it's all new characters, all new legacies about to be created. You know, it's not Mahomes, or in the absence of Mahomes, it's never been Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, but someone like that. Or Joe Burrow or someone like that. It's all brand new. Love it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think it's good for the league. Refreshing to see some new faces in the Super Bowl. But there is history. I would think that it's gonna bring up some bad memories for Seattle fans, obviously. But at the same time, if I had to make my decision today, I still feel like Seattle's probably the stronger team, but I'm not. Listen.

[Max Kellerman]

How about this? Rich? Now, he. As I said after the NFC Championship game, I thought the key play of the game was, like, early in the fourth quarter, third and 10. On it was past midfield, it was the Rams 44. Darnold throws the ball away, and I'm like, ooh, good play. Throw it away. Don't do something stupid. Try to play hero. And turn the ball over right there. Cause that's what I was expecting. Could you imagine if the game comes down to Seattle driving the ball down the field and it ends on a quarterback's interception again?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, could you imagine?

[Max Kellerman]

Because that's. That is not a. That is not a. Like, a totally improbable scenario.

[Rich Paul]

I know, but the. No, I have a lot of. A lot of friends in Seattle, good people up in Seattle. They can't take that.

[Max Kellerman]

But I'm just saying, like, the Patriots have an outstanding defense, and it's been playing really well in these playoffs.

[Rich Paul]

They have no. The Patriots defense is strong.

[Max Kellerman]

Seattle has a quarterback who is prone to throwing interceptions at inopportune times, although he has been very good in these playoffs. I'm just saying, like, it is set up. When I watched the Giants beat the Patriots for the second time in the super bowl, what was crazy about it, it was like, exhausting. Just watching it as a fan is, oh, my God, it's gonna happen again. Almost the exact same way. Right? Like, it's crazy. There was some kid growing up in Boston watching that. Like, there's no way this could be happening again.

[Rich Paul]

But this is why.

[Max Kellerman]

Could you imagine some kid in Seattle who's now like a. Now he's a professional. He was a kid when it had. If there's another interception toward the end of the game and you lose the Patriots, it won't be.

[Rich Paul]

But this is. This. This game will be closer than what it actually seems to be on paper. I think it'll be closer because I believe in Rabel. Drake Mays, although he's young, he's very poised, very polished. And the Patriots defense are strong, and they got a lot of guys playing with a chip on their shoulder. I think I said this, what, a month ago in the playoff game. Stefon Diggs, he's going to come through. He's going to be reliable. When it matters to you.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you called it before. When did you call it? You called it. And Stephon, I forgot when in the playoffs, had a big game.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it was like the second game of the playoffs. But he's going to. He makes. He makes winning catches, you know, moving the chains. Catches, tough catches.

[Max Kellerman]

And Drake May is also that kind. You could say, oh, Drake May's not having a great game. This and that. And then he'll run for a first down, and then he'll make. And then, as I said. I think I said this on the pod. He's the type of dude where it's like, I don't know, second and nine, and he'll take the five or six yard pass that they're going to give him. And now it's third and short. And because of that, you keep moving the chains. He's just like under pressure. He's an under to me, what I see of him so far, and sometimes I'm wrong about this. I thought that would be C.J. stroud. I was wrong. But it seems to me he's the type of dude who makes the. With his legs, with his arm under pressure, makes the right play.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. So. So I think the best part about Super Bowl, I like to watch the whole media. You know, they play back, they're talking about what's coming up. I think my mind will change over the next week or so, but I'm looking forward to the weekend. But Max, also, the trade deadline is nearing.

[Max Kellerman]

You know how I know it's the trade deadline when you're on your phone constantly. Yeah, I have to. You're distracted.

[Rich Paul]

I don't sleep. But here's the thing. I don't think there will be a ton of movement, but still, you know. But I wanted to ask you.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, ask. Yes, ask the trade deadline expert, Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

How important do you think the trade deadline is and who benefits, like, the most?

[Max Kellerman]

I think that. Here's what's crazy to me, okay. I know everyone's looking at the warriors. And what about Giannis? Or the Heat? And what about Giannis? Whatever. I don't think that they're going to win championship either way. The team, to me that's most interesting at the trade deadline is the Detroit Pistons. At least in the East. The Detroit Pistons might. I understand they're young and there's some things they need, so probably not. They might win the championship this year anyway. It's possible. They're good, they're young, they play together. If they get some shooting, if they get a guy who can, other than Cade, who can handle and make plays. But really, to me, some shooting, like the Thunder are obviously vulnerable. Right. William's not having a great year. He's been hurt, this and that in the West. Detroit. And. Because if you can steal one now and you're young and ascending.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. No. And you know, the best thing is they are extremely well coached. JB does a hell of a job. And the thing about JB is he's one of those coaches just like imei, like they're gonna challenge you and you have to be up for that. But they're challenging you because they're not trying to show you up.

[Max Kellerman]

They're trying, you know, trying to make you the best version of them.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And they're just as motivated and wanting to win as you are. Like. Like they're passionate. That's the word I was looking for. They're passionate about it. But the thing for me, man, when I think about the past trades that affected teams, obviously when Gasol came over to the Lakers, which, by the way.

[Max Kellerman]

Originally was framed as Jerry west just hooking the Lakers up from Memphis. Right. Because he was the GM in Memphis. But actually, Mark Gasol turned out to be a multiple time all star.

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely. Also, when Rasheed went to the Pistons, that was.

[Max Kellerman]

I felt so bad for Rick Carlisle because Larry Brown comes in and Rick Carlisle had built that team up right to the precipice of what they were gonna do. And then you kiss Rasheed Wallace into that team. Rich. I was the only person that I know of in the national media. I had a show on Fox SportsNet called iMax. I picked the Pistons and I thought they might sweep over the Lakers. Everyone told me I was crazy.

[Rich Paul]

Because of the names?

[Max Kellerman]

No, because I was watching that Pistons team after.

[Rich Paul]

They're saying because of the names the.

[Max Kellerman]

Other team had, they got Krom alone. He was older. Gary Payton, and Shaq wasn't quite as good as he'd been. But if you just watched the Lakers, they struggled. I think it was a Minnesota team without Sam Cassell maybe. And they had struggled to beat them a little bit. And if you watch Detroit and Indiana in the Eastern Conference finals, everyone back then was saying, oh, it's not good basketball and this and that. I was like, that might be the best defensive series I've ever seen. Oh, yeah, right. So, like, to me, that might have been the finals.

[Rich Paul]

And then Tayshawn had a hell of a play.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, my. And then you had a team that was routinely holding other teams under 70 points. Like, that was the best defensive team maybe in the history of America.

[Rich Paul]

I was at that finals, but.

[Max Kellerman]

But I felt bad for Rick Carlile because you get them there, then another coach comes in, and then they give them Rasheed Wallace and then they run the team. That was a great Detroit team anyway.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, they went to what, five straight Eastern Conference finals, I think.

[Max Kellerman]

Was it five?

[Rich Paul]

Five or six? Yeah. Really?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

They went.

[Max Kellerman]

I wasn't even aware it was that many.

[Rich Paul]

I think so. Because Joe D. I remember that because Joe D. Had said something to me one time after I said this before, and this. What? It just played in my mind. This was before I was even in this position. But he said to me, basically, Rich, no matter how good you are, no matter how great of a season you have, you always have to get better, come back better. That always stuck with.

[Max Kellerman]

And he's a hell of a gm.

[Rich Paul]

As a team, we always have to get better.

[Max Kellerman]

So any dynasty, when you look at any dynasty, they're always doing that. They're like, oh, wow, they, they just won and they added him.

[Rich Paul]

We forgot another one. Detroit. Mark Aguire.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh my God.

[Rich Paul]

That changed the whole. Normally, normally, when you normally trades mid season don't lead to championship. We're naming some that did or at least get into the finals to play for a championship. A underrated one. Was Junior and Shump going to. Going to Cleveland?

[Max Kellerman]

No, that I. I was so. You know, it always sounds condescending or patronizing when someone in the media says they're proud of a player. Right? But that's how I felt about Junior because he became the best perimeter defender on the team. Like he was. It's not just the shooting and the fact that he's athletic. He would take tough defensive assignments.

[Rich Paul]

I'm telling you something. Junior was such a underrated player talent wise. You can't name a lot of people more talented than jr.

[Max Kellerman]

The only thing he was missing if JR had elite handles.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, no. You crazy? JR can handle the rock.

[Max Kellerman]

I know, but I'm saying elite handles. He had everything else on offense.

[Rich Paul]

First of all, he's six, seven. He can handle. Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

You just gave him an extra interest.

[Rich Paul]

Six, six, six, seven.

[Max Kellerman]

J.R. smith, six foot five.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, I'm saying he's six seven.

[Max Kellerman]

It just from where you and I are looking, it looks like six foot six. Okay, fair point.

[Rich Paul]

Let's just land on six. Six.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, fine.

[Rich Paul]

He could handle it and he could really shoot the lights out. And no one was more upset than me when they passed on him during his draft year. Remember I think the Cavs in that year took Luke Jackson.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, I'll take your word for it.

[Rich Paul]

And I just always thought that he would play well next to. And I remember seeing him. This was before Kiff was even kith we was at atrium and I remember seeing him and I said something to J. R this before I even represented him too. I said I had known him forever. And I said something to J.R. i said J. R. I said, I see you in Cleveland. And he was like, huh? And I basically told him he was getting traded to Cleveland before the trade happened. And so when he came, we laughed about it, but it Was. It was. It was great. But that was a.

[Max Kellerman]

That was another to feel extra good for you. A guy from the area links up with LeBron, you're. You go back to Cleveland like a guy who. You had your winds up back in Cleveland and then you win one of the all time. Like it's in the. That championship in 16 is in the running for greatest comeback in the history of sports.

[Rich Paul]

He really changed the perception around on him. And he's. And he. He. He got paid more money.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it was with JR Why he got underrated because his highlight reel was so spectacular that when people saw that and then compared it to the level of player he was in the NBA, there was a mismatch. They're like, his level should be higher based on what we can see him do.

[Rich Paul]

But that also.

[Max Kellerman]

But then that narrative gets stuck. And so when he actually fulfills a lot of the stuff you would want to see from that guy, it gets lost because they're already. They're stuck in that like. Cause I don't know. It was a good number of years where it was like, man, these two things aren't matching.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that also comes with style of playing opportunity too. But it worked out. Got two rings.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rich Paul]

But when I think about the trade deadline, as much as I'm in this trade things, I think for the people to understand what these guys actually go through. It's a tough time, man.

[Max Kellerman]

You mean as human beings?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's just a tough time because people always say, well, they make all this money, it shouldn't matter. But it does matter because you have to uproot your family.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

You may have kids in schools. Who knows what you had to go through to get them in those schools. You know, your wife is settled and it's hard enough as it is.

[Max Kellerman]

Dude, I move coast to coast, get in and out of schools, depending on the time of year get, you know, like all that stuff. It's a major thing.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's a.

[Max Kellerman]

Kids crying, they don't want to leave.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. They have their friends. It is a major thing. And for us, it has to be business as usual. And it's business. And especially if the team drafted you and you've been there for a while. Trey's has always been seen as a negative thing, but it is business. And sometimes, at least you can go.

[Max Kellerman]

To your family when someone else has. They choose to leave another city for an opportunity or something, at least the player can go to their family and be like, I got traded nothing. You could tell the Kids, I don't control this.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's true.

[Max Kellerman]

I got traded. I'm getting drafted. I don't have control of that.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. And look, trades are positive in a lot of ways, given the fact that sometimes the player needs a new opportunity and sometimes the team is not positioned to give you another bite of the apple as it pertains to. From a contract perspective and things like that. And so I always think about the element of the human element.

[Max Kellerman]

What was the toughest one you've experienced where you had to tell a guy, you gotta go. You have to pick up and leave. You just got traded. Maybe like a family situation where they were finally close to their mom in the same town or, like, you know, I'm sure there have been instances where it's like, man, I'm not gonna. This is gonna not be fun to tell this guy this.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Can you say a name or no?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, I haven't had. I haven't had a ton of guys get traded, and I didn't know. The only one was the obvious, which was last year.

[Max Kellerman]

In other words, you're part of the process of trading them.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

So it's something that you talk about with the client, and that's.

[Rich Paul]

And normally, yeah, you get way out in front. Like, this year, I'm way out in front of things. I've been out in front for, like, a month.

[Max Kellerman]

I mean, the AD Luka thing seemed to come out of the blue.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I just said that. That was what I just said. Besides last year, the obvious. But that's the only one ever that I didn't.

[Max Kellerman]

And you can understand why they would want to keep that one.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, no, 100%, but that's what I'm saying. I don't take those things personal as business.

[Max Kellerman]

But that reminds me about something about the deadline. What? The Mavericks are super interesting at the deadline. Oh, super interesting. Because, Rich. Yes. If you're the Mavericks, it makes sense to move on from ad. However, They just need a little luck with health. Just imagine if AD and Kyrie are healthy next year. That's all it takes. They could easily run the table. That could easily happen if you had Cooper flagg in his second year. Kyrie and AD healthy. Let's say Kyrie and AD are 75% of their best, with Cooper Flag a little better than he is now. That's the nucleus of a team that could win the whole thing.

[Rich Paul]

No, I think that's what makes, you know, all these decisions at this point in the season, very tough. I think when you look at rosters and you see guys that regardless what anybody else has to think about them, how am I going to replace that guy? Becomes the question to you internally. And during this time, what happens is teams sit down, they're in these rooms for two, three hours really talking about all different type of scenarios, you know, the trade deadline bring forth opportunity for guys to get up under or get out of a deep tax position, as well as.

[Max Kellerman]

Which is a big deal now with the aprons.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. As well as the second apron. And you know, some teams are looking to accumulate draft capital, you know, by taking on salary, some teams are looking to shed salary. And like you said, there's teams that's looking at their roster and they're saying, man, we're still really strong. We just need to make a few changes here and there. But that's easier said than done. And you see all this fantasy basketball online and things of that nature, well, why we can't just do this, why we can't just do that? And it always takes two to tangle. And so in my position, I'm in the middle of it all, but it's always a surprise every year. I don't know, even though it seems loud this year in retrospect, but I'm not sure it would be as loud as it probably seems.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what? Now that we're talking about it some more, two things. One, if you're in the Eastern Conference, if you're a team in the Eastern Conference with a chance, you're looking at going, man, this is gettable right now. And so part of it could be an arms race psychologically where like if you do game theory on it, if you're the Knicks or the, or the Celtics or whoever, and you're looking around, you go, they might make a move. And if they even get 5% better, that really hurts us. Maybe we need to preemptively get 10% better so we're still ahead of them.

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's again, being in that position, it's always, it's always dangerous to think, oh, it don't matter, we'll just get back here next year. Like that doesn't happen like that. It's so hard to get back to that point. Being able to contend. You can't take it for granted. Even if you won a championship last year, you cannot take it for granted. But it'll be interesting. It'll be an interesting place.

[Max Kellerman]

Another one for you early on in this show's history. We're still early on, but I'm talking about our first show or two or three. I was sitting here and I said, I talking about the Rockets. And I said, if only Van Vliet was playing, like by the playoffs or something like that. And you were like, who says he's not? I said, well, everything I'm reading. And you called him on the show and got him on the line. Right. And all you guys were saying was, oh, he's rehabbing hard and all that stuff. Trade deadlines coming up. If the Rockets were to have Van Vliet not just for the playoffs, but with a little Runway for the players, you gotta get your basketball legs. Yeah, they could run the table. But Rich, if the case is looking like I don't think that might not happen, then I would say they could use a playmaking guard, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I think every team could use a playmaking guard. But I understand what you're saying in that situation, a combo guard at least. Yeah, but only they know how it's looking. Right. In terms of timeline. So do you know you can make.

[Max Kellerman]

A decision between you and me?

[Rich Paul]

I do know. Yeah, I know.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm gonna do the Larry David to you now. Like when he looks at the plays of music.

[Rich Paul]

These next couple days, it will be omerta.

[Max Kellerman]

Ah, I gotcha.

[Rich Paul]

Code of silence Next couple days.

[Max Kellerman]

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[Rich Paul]

Have you been up to speed on? There's been a lot of college conversations from the coaches. These kids going back. Oh, have you seen the latest?

[Max Kellerman]

Matter of fact, they have it right here. You mean Amari Bailey?

[Rich Paul]

That's once in there. Oh, yeah, I did see that one. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Because let me just tell you I'll tell you one thing. Who cares if an NBA player goes back to.

[Rich Paul]

To college?

[Max Kellerman]

I wouldn't have cared 20 years ago. I don't care now. Great. Go back to college if you have eligibility to play. Play in college.

[Rich Paul]

What is that?

[Max Kellerman]

Why is everyone bent that rich people get in a habit of the world is a certain way, and when it changes, they don't. Let Saturday Night Live used to have a skit called Grumpy Old man with Dana Carvey. Okay? And he was just complaining about the world. And the one that killed me was when he would say, like, I don't like. It was always, I don't like things now compared to the way they used to be.

[Rich Paul]

This is gon. This is going to be a hot topic for me.

[Max Kellerman]

I got to take this. Check it out. And the one that cracked me up was, he was talking about the mic. He goes, microwave ovens. Now you can bake a potato in, like, a few minutes. He goes, in my day, if you wanted to bake a potato, you'd have to take the day off of work. Right? Like, sometimes things get better or they change. It's okay, so let Amari Bailey go back to college. Let him play in college. Who cares? Like, why does anyone care?

[Rich Paul]

You know, Max, I'm kind of torn with this situation here for a couple reasons. One part of me thinks it's bad for the ecosystem. It's hard enough where you have freshmen are no longer high school, seniors are no longer being recruited the way they once were.

[Max Kellerman]

We could see the horse even before you did that. We saw the fresh sweater. It's okay.

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no, that's okay, Max. But this is a hot topic for me. Very hot topic for me. The second part is.

[Max Kellerman]

Why is it bad for the ecosystem?

[Rich Paul]

Well, because in theory, you would say once a guy has made a decision to leave school to turn pro, that's the decision they made. You shouldn't be able to go back.

[Max Kellerman]

Right, but that's what I'm asking. After being says who?

[Rich Paul]

Why not says the way the system was set up, you declare for the draft so you actually lose eligibility.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, I mean, but I'm trying to think of the logic in that. So on the one hand, they can say, underneath it all, this is really a farm system for the pros. Okay. I mean, in baseball, you can get bused down to the farm. It's okay. You still be major, go back to the majors, back and forth. The other is, it's unfair to the student athletes who are developing and having this experience. As college players to then have to play against a more seasoned professional. But let's be honest about college basketball. Division 1 college basketball, it's semi pro already. Yeah, but let's be honest.

[Rich Paul]

But those are old rules. Today it's semi pro because of the transaction of payment. Like there's no more college basketball. It's basically semi or pro basketball within a student athlete ecosystem. That's what I'm saying.

[Max Kellerman]

So the logic isn't there to keep it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. But the part that I'm torn about is I don't think players, especially if you're not to the level that we all know makes you a for sure NBA star or just a certified, you know, you're gonna for sure be drafted. You're gonna get, you know, multiple years contracted and things of that nature.

[Max Kellerman]

Financial security and all this, or somewhat.

[Rich Paul]

Cause look, no matter what round you go in, contracts are two years. There's two years guaranteed in the first round. Then the next two years is a team option. So you still have to prove yourself no matter what. But the point that makes me a little torn is the personal side of it. Even with this young man. I know him, know him well, Amar. Yeah. And there's so much pressure on these young kids as they decide to leave school and why they're leaving school. Being ranked is such an issue Coming out in high school. And now I make it to the All American team, and now there's a pressure on me to follow exactly what happened with those before. There's a want there. And so you just think, like, oh, it's going to happen for me too. And then you end up being in this position to where now I have to make a decision. I've declared for the draft, and everyone around me is telling me how great I am. And despite a lot of the signs, I'm ignoring those signs. So I declare and I get in this position to where I'm working out. And in my mind, I crushed the workout, right? No one was there. It's not on tv. We can't evaluate it. You said you crushed it. I can evaluate it. Cause I can hear right from the team. But even then, if you give that information, it may go through one ear and out the other. Maybe it doesn't. But now you get in the situation on draft night, and it's the second day of draft night of the draft week, and these kids have to make a choice. They have to make a choice. Do you want to hear your name called or do you want to Go undrafted. And so what happens is once you start getting to the mid-30s, all the way to the back end of the draft, it becomes just that because now you're more than likely going to be on what they call a two way contract. And so that in itself is extremely difficult for you. To be converted from a two way player to a standard contract is a very difficult thing to do. One, you have to get the opportunity. Two, you have to produce while having that opportunity. Three, it has to be available for the roster spot. There's so many different things that come into play. But keep in mind there's been a peer pressure, there's been, you know, a conversation, there's been a process of, you know, I've met with every agent to talk to and there's been.

[Max Kellerman]

And what do you mean by peer pressure?

[Rich Paul]

Well, the peers, once you're a ranked player, especially highly ranked, and you go to this high school, you, McDonald's all American, your peers are those that done the same thing prior to you and have taken the step and the ones that's in your draft class as well.

[Max Kellerman]

So you feel competitive with them or it's just kind of social pressure because that's what everyone's doing.

[Rich Paul]

It's always competitive, but it's also social pressure. Yeah, absolutely. And so, and then, not to mention the family dynamic of it, your family has planned on things. They've planned on buying houses and cars and taking trips and all these. It's a lot of pressure on these guys and stuff, right?

[Max Kellerman]

The whole family's like, we finally made it.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly.

[Max Kellerman]

After this many generations of going through the shit, we have finally made it.

[Rich Paul]

And the people around you think the same. They don't know from the outside. They just hear your name called and think, oh, this person's rich. They don't know the, the, the, the details within so going. And, and here's the other thing. The certain kids that's trying to go back now, they didn't necessarily get to take advantage of nil the way kids are now. These numbers wasn't as high as they were.

[Max Kellerman]

There might be more money. One of the reasons I think there.

[Rich Paul]

Might be there is more for a lot of.

[Max Kellerman]

One of the reasons the women's game has exploded is because the WNBA as a business is not as lucrative for a lot of female players as nil deals are in college. And as a result, the incentive is to stay in college so they not only develop as players, but the American public is now familiar with a lot of female stars, right? So it was always the reverse for men, because there's no money in college and a lot in the NBA. But now that's. You're saying that there's a class of player for whom nil in college will be better than going to the NBA.

[Rich Paul]

Look, people will be like, well, rich, you've been in a situation, you can't call it a kettle black. I'm not. I've been in a situation to where I've sat with the family and I said to them, listen, I don't think you should leave school. I think that if you. If it's not a for sure, then give yourself another opportunity. You have four chances, maybe five, six. If you know, Covid year, give yourself a chance. Especially now, you can be paid. But some of these decisions was made prior to the nil being at the height that it is now. So I understand that. So I'm torn because of that reason.

[Max Kellerman]

Did Amari have a standard contract?

[Rich Paul]

I'm not sure. I didn't represent him. I'm not sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Maybe if. If they really. If people really. I don't care. I think. I don't care if It's. If. If LeBron James wants to go back to school.

[Rich Paul]

Now wait a minute.

[Max Kellerman]

If he. If someone wants to go to college, think about it rationally. If they want to go to college, go to college. It's America. No one's stopping you. Go to college. If you, once you are in college, want to play basketball, why should you not be allowed to play basketball?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but every college coach would disagree with you. Well, not every. The cop. Most would probably disagree with you here. But for the sake. Because we have to move on. I'm just saying. It's just.

[Max Kellerman]

What I'm saying about Amar is maybe if you want to put a rule in place to preserve the ecosystem, maybe you can have a rule where if you are signed to a standard contract for X number of years, you are no longer eligible to go back to college.

[Rich Paul]

I like that.

[Max Kellerman]

But if you don't have that and you're just playing on some, you know, two ways or whatever, you can go back.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. And also I think there's a world where you can probably place. You can only have one of these guys per team. Like for the international players, you can only have two Americans on a team.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

So in this case, because you're a.

[Max Kellerman]

Little bit of a ringer, you could.

[Rich Paul]

Only have one of these guys because look, at the end of the day, all these young men. And again, I've dealt with it and I've had to Be in a position where I ask a kid, hey, do you want your name called? Want to hear your name? What's more important to you? Hearing your name called or, you know, just. Or guaranteed money? Right. Because sometimes it's better to go undrafted. That way you can pick where you want to be. It's a better opportunity. You can look at the roster, all those things, and really try to give yourself a better chance. But there's still this idea. I went 37 or I went 42. Hell, Jokic was 46 or 47. Ginobili was 47.

[Max Kellerman]

Didn't used to be that way, by the way.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

If you got an Anthony Mason, you were amazed. And nowadays, best player went in the second round.

[Rich Paul]

Fred was undrafted. So we see these things turn. But again, I also, just to close the loop on it, at the end of the day, it's about development. These kids aren't developed. And when you're athletic, it makes it even worse. The worst thing you can be is athletic because you become so dependent on of your athleticism that you don't learn the other parts of the game.

[Max Kellerman]

The curse of the gifted. It's in all walks of life.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. And so that. So as you're climbing that mountain and that tipping point, you know, it just hurts these guys. And now I don't know how to play without the ball. I don't know how to identify a role, to embrace that role, which is then going to lead to me having a better production and probably a better positioning, then that leads to me to actually get paid.

[Max Kellerman]

Jonathan Kaminga.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, you don't know those things. And so it's tough on them. And so we have to figure something out. And so I'm torn with that.

[Max Kellerman]

But you know what? This leads right into something I want to talk about, because the star system, the American college star making machine, once upon a time, which with nil might come back. Look at the pressure. An NBA player thinks there's more money in college. It's an incentive to go to college. And we see college programs that have several, have multiple. Maybe no one's gonna be a number one draft pick, but they might have several rotation pieces in the NBA and maybe a couple other good players gonna go to Europe. Those teams that stay together to learn how to play do well in the tournament. Right. So now there are more incentives maybe to stay in college longer. And what that does the college, American college basketball, the NCAA basketball through the tournament primarily creates stars. And why am I bringing that up, Rich? Because it occurred to me the other day that you know, the NFL is king. NFL is the most trusted entertainment brand maybe in the world in the sense that you have been conditioned to know that when you turn on an NFL game you're going to get a very good product. Right. Everyone knows this. Everyone. It's in fact NFL games, the super bowl for example, is probably the last shared experience in American life. Right. Years ago you could sit down and you're getting a trade deadline.

[Rich Paul]

Text. No, no, no, I'm okay, I'm listening.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, and I want to see what the text is.

[Rich Paul]

No, it's nothing, go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

Uh huh. Years ago. I'll wait for you to text. We just want a few names. We just need a few names. No, years ago American stars came out of the college basketball system. Right.

[Rich Paul]

Why?

[Max Kellerman]

And they were. Because they stayed in for three, four years and you know who they were, et cetera.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah. Duncan stayed and because of the Georgetown guys would stay because of what you said.

[Max Kellerman]

They were more finished products by the time they got to the league. So we also had better players relative to. That was one of the reasons we had better players relative to the last.

[Rich Paul]

Rest of the world before you. This is going to help your take. AAU was not.

[Max Kellerman]

It went sideways.

[Rich Paul]

The prioritized place to play basketball, high school basketball was. And you know what happens in high school basketball? You practice more than you play. That allowed you to be better developed. That's just what it was.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So we have a series of factors.

[Rich Paul]

Nowadays these kids play so many games and they practice. How could I possibly develop when we're practicing one day a week and then we play six games a day?

[Max Kellerman]

And you're talking about.

[Rich Paul]

That doesn't even make sense.

[Max Kellerman]

You're talking about guys who might wind up role players. I'm talking about Anthony Edwards. If Anthony Edwards went to North Carolina with Dean Smith, you know some of that and stayed for four years, he would certainly be a much better player. And he's already a fantastic player.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know how much better you can get.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, well my point is that's one, the other influence with foreign born players in the NBA is that they're just the world caught up. It's a very popular game, it exports very well. It's similar to soccer in terms of the. How you understand what it is. It's easy to comprehend. If you already play soccer, you kind of know how to play basketball. It's just with your hands, not your feet.

[Rich Paul]

No. You do.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but the point is it's the same sport, just reinterpreted I totally disagree. There's a big difference between for example soccer and baseball. Two different sports, Soccer and basketball. Put it this way, on the evolutionary tree they broke off from each other sooner than sooner.

[Rich Paul]

When you don't use your hands and the other one, you only use your hands.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. But there's a, there's one ball, there's a goal, you're trying to get the ball, the basketball and no, that is, that is the difference. Ok. My point is that the rest of the world also got better. The upshot is we don't have like the best player in the game is no longer American. The next best player in the game, meaning the guy who's likely to take the crown is not American. That doesn't help in America, it helps worldwide. But I think and you could have a foreign born player who's extremely popular. Shohei Ohtani. But I think that intuitively people believe and I think probably correctly that an American born player is easier to market to in the United States than a foreign born player. Steph Curry, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, et cetera. My point is this. The NFL is king. Mlb, the size of the economy has always been second. And then the NBA, even though the NBA had more cultural relevancy, right. But rich because of these new TV contracts, the size of the economies of baseball and basketball are the same. MLB and NBA are neck and neck in terms of the size of the economies. You could even argue that because the NBA has more cultural relevance and youth market that it's ahead of baseball. But it's close. And then there's way up here, there's the NFL. I'm saying this, the NBA has a chance right now. And maybe kids going back to school helps or just the lure to stay in school will help. It has a chance to replace baseball definitively as the second biggest sport in the country behind the NFL. But I don't think it's gonna happen if someone like Ant Edwards doesn't become the face of the league. I think in order for that to happen in this country, you have to have an American born player as the face of the league. I'm not talking about worldwide, I'm talking about popularity and size of the NBA economy in the United States of America.

[Rich Paul]

I think that's a good point. Two things I would take on that before we get to our rundown. I would say I don't see it as a negative that these international players have rose to the, to the place that they are in terms of being positioned as the best players in the league.

[Max Kellerman]

Me neither.

[Rich Paul]

I think that's a sign of our game growing. And we want a global game. That's the whole goal. We want a global game. Just like when I talk to my colleagues that are soccer agents and I'm saying, and obviously I'm looking at the numbers and I'm saying, wait a minute, but they have seven leagues to benefit from. We have one, they have seven leagues to benefit from. So having those opportunities to grow our game is important. Now what you're getting back to in terms of the American players, to be.

[Max Kellerman]

Clear, I'm not making a value judgment whether it's good or bad. I'm simply talking objectively about the position and popularity of sports in this country. Like NFL, NBA, mlb, neck and neck. NBA has a chance to ensconce itself firmly as the second biggest sport in.

[Rich Paul]

The last point I'll make is it starts with our youth. We have to have a re. We gotta turn the soil over. We gotta revisit re, fertilize the soil in our in our youth game and youth sports. And it's going to start.

[Max Kellerman]

There's only someone will come along and fix youth sports in this country.

[Rich Paul]

Just hold on.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

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[Max Kellerman]

You speak of the rundown. I think this is. I think the rundown is all NBA today.

[Rich Paul]

Really?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, I think it's NBA today. I know it's like super bowl week. We're talking a lot of basketball. We'll. We'll. We'll hit more football throughout the week.

[Rich Paul]

Wait, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You don't. Well, I don't want to get you off on a boxing tangent because you already tried to hate on my sweater. Your name would be Max to hater Kellerman as a boxer. It's okay.

[Max Kellerman]

I didn't hate on it.

[Rich Paul]

It's okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Show. I'm just saying stand on business. I just thought it was business attire. I like the sweater.

[Rich Paul]

It's okay. It's no problem. Here's what I'll say.

[Max Kellerman]

But the guy divorce right here.

[Rich Paul]

The guy knocked the guy's.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you're talking about Jarell Big Baby Miller.

[Rich Paul]

Now, come on.

[Max Kellerman]

Toupee knocked off.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what? I like his. He played it cool. He won the fight and he was still like, you know what it is what it is like. He made fun of it. He said he was a comedian.

[Max Kellerman]

Jerrel Miller, he should have been a big deal. Great personality, talent, the whole thing. He just does not. He has not been in the best shape his whole career. The whole thing. I already yelled at him about that. He's a. He's a really good personality.

[Rich Paul]

But he won.

[Max Kellerman]

He got his toupee knocked off his head.

[Rich Paul]

That was hilarious.

[Max Kellerman]

That was hilarious.

[Rich Paul]

I think he did it on purpose.

[Max Kellerman]

Did you see the Shakur Teo fight?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, my God. That was no Shakur is Shakur pound for pound.

[Max Kellerman]

He might like he's in getting there.

[Rich Paul]

Top four.

[Max Kellerman]

Crawford supposedly retired. We'll see. Yeah, right. And then Shakur is right there with anyone else.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Usyk is the heavyweight champ. He's a great.

[Rich Paul]

I like the move by but make him pay you to come out of retirement a lot of money.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's okay. What's our rundown.

[Max Kellerman]

All stars. NBA All Star. Let's start right there. The starters Were named. It is Luca, Steph, Jokic, Shai and Wemby.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I think.

[Max Kellerman]

I think we picked those Giannis. Jalen Brown deserves it. Brunson, Cade and Maxey. Maxey's an All Star starter.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. He is well deserving.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Here's where it gets a little dicey, though. Reserves, Anthony Edwards. For the West, Jamal Murray.

[Rich Paul]

Well deserved.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. We sure. Chet Holmgren. I mean, Jamal Murray's had a great year.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, number one in the West.

[Max Kellerman]

Kevin Durant, of course.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Devin Booker.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Danny Avija. Right. I would never pronounce his name right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Avia. Avia. And Avi is good Israeli. Right. Like, you know, he's a good player. LeBron James. His name I pronounce right. No. Here's another name I'll butcher. And not only that, I keep hearing it pronounced different ways. On tv. They call him Sengun. Right, but is it.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Or Sengun. But is it. But I've heard you say. What have you. I. I hear people in the NBA call them.

[Rich Paul]

Is it Segun?

[Max Kellerman]

Sengun.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Are we saying Sengun?

[Rich Paul]

Or you could always just say a hell of a player.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that. Who's the best player on the Houston Rockets?

[Rich Paul]

Who's the best player on the Houston Rockets? I mean, the obvious choice would be Kevin Durant.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Are we sure about that right now, though?

[Rich Paul]

I'm not getting into that, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just saying.

[Rich Paul]

You want to get into that?

[Max Kellerman]

I love kd. And you know what? Push come to shove, I agree with you. I would say if I have to take some. Okay. I'm just saying I have to stop and think about it.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But Sengun is really, really good. How is he not on the All Star team?

[Rich Paul]

Well, here's the thing. This is a lose, lose. You can't win this argument. We can name guys.

[Max Kellerman]

I think I would take over him.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but you could also name six other guys that's not on the All Star team that probably have done on both the east and the west that have done a really good job this year. They're trying to do it different. You have to have the world participants as well as, you know, Changun qualifies. Agreed. Look, I don't have no argument about him. Like, he's a hell of a player.

[Max Kellerman]

But I might. I would think about him versus Jamal Murray, Chet Holmgren. Chet Holmgren and Devin Booker.

[Rich Paul]

But there's several guys. You have no Kawhi.

[Max Kellerman]

It used to be so easy in the old days.

[Rich Paul]

Nah, but it's Larry.

[Max Kellerman]

Guys are better Magic Johnson.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but guys are better. Guys are better. And you also.

[Max Kellerman]

Just the names.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, in the old days, I think you had at least two more roster spots. I think on the All Star team, I think you had at least one or two more roster spots. And basically each team got one All Star.

[Max Kellerman]

Pretty much each team, which resulted sometimes in some stuff that was like, come on.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not just saying. But you knew that each team's gonna get one All Star. And then I think there was two more roster spots. And so, like, the top team may get two.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. See, I think that's what's happening. They look at the Rockets, they look at the Thunder, and they go, we're gonna take two from the Thunder. Right. So Chet's on the team and Sengun isn't.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But Detroit got two as well. I mean, when you. The number one team in the east or the West, I think that's deserving. Shit. There's been times where people got four. I'm just saying, like, there's people that you. Look. Brandon Ingram didn't make it. His. He had really good numbers in the East. Could have made it.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Kawhi didn't make it. He's averaging 27.

[Max Kellerman]

That I want to talk about.

[Rich Paul]

50, 40, 94.

[Max Kellerman]

That I want to talk about Kawhi. Because there's an obvious comparison. If you want to have LeBron James on the All Star team over Kawhi Leonard, I'm all for having LeBron on the team. Not just because you're sitting here.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

But because, first of all, he's still really good. And second of all, it's LeBron James. If memory serves, Pete Rose was making All Star teams with no power, hitting.270. Because it's Pete Rose. Right. It's LeBron James. Do a. Do a special commissioner's appointment. LeBron James put him on the team. Not instead of Kawhi.

[Rich Paul]

I don't agree with that. Not no commissioner's appointment.

[Max Kellerman]

He.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

Kawhi's been better than LeBron this year. Like, he should be on the team. Right. I mean, he.

[Rich Paul]

I have no, listen, I love Kawhi Leonard. I think he. He had a hell of a season. So this is what I'm saying. As. How do you win? There's so many.

[Max Kellerman]

You take the right guys.

[Rich Paul]

This is the embarrassment of riches.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You know, there's so many guys that are qualified to be on the All Star team, and everybody can't make it.

[Max Kellerman]

I think Chet Holmgren will be better than Sengun in the. Not Too distant future. I don't think that day is today. And I think. I think Sengun should have gone instead of Chet. And I think that LeBron should be on the team, but it cannot be at Kawhi's expense this season. Kawhi should be on the team. So there you are.

[Rich Paul]

Why would you say it's at his expense? I mean, there's so many.

[Max Kellerman]

Because I'm taking similar positions. Right. Like you have a wing and you have like a. A stretch four type.

[Rich Paul]

I have no argument. I think Kawhi's numbers says he's an all Star.

[Max Kellerman]

Right? All right. Well, that was easier than I thought. Can we get a headline from out of someone rich? Paul says Kawhi should have gone over LeBron.

[Rich Paul]

No, that this is a very high level show. Insights and education. From my perspective. You can give the hot takes.

[Max Kellerman]

We could do that thing. Who was it? Conan. Where we just have. We freeze a picture of you and then you make. And then you just have someone else come out. They cut out the mouth. They have someone else come out and say, I should go over LeBron.

[Rich Paul]

Let's get to this deadline and then I'll have a little.

[Max Kellerman]

You like the USA versus the world format and the All Star game? Does it make you care about it?

[Rich Paul]

I'm down to try it. I'm down to try it. Why not?

[Max Kellerman]

I just don't like that everything has to be complicated. Eight versus eight, take the world. I love the idea of USA versus the world. Full teams. Just do full teams and play a competitive game. Why is it so hard for the NBA? Just play a competitive game.

[Rich Paul]

Hey, there'll be no NBA bashing on this show, man.

[Max Kellerman]

It's not bashing. I love the NBA, but it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean. Just take it as it is. You try to implement. I think, I think it's like America rich. Love it or leave it. Make it better.

[Rich Paul]

You're trying to improve every which way. Let's see how it works out. If it's not, look, I'm all for going back to the original format. Meaning, hey, you pick. Give us 12 or 14 roster spots for All Star pick. You know the All Stars, east versus West. I like our uniforms. East versus west and not challenged, but because they don't need to be challenged. But you have the conversation with the players and say, listen, this is one of two of our biggest assets. All Star free agency at All Star. If you guys don't invest in it, we're going to continue to lose viewership. We're going to continue to lose sponsorship and you know, I shouldn't have to incentivize you for you to show how much you care about this weekend. Like, let's show how much we care about it. Let's embrace it. All things All Star.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, that's a great speech, but it's not gonna work.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I'm just saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Unless you actually incentivize.

[Rich Paul]

But that's not true. That's not true.

[Max Kellerman]

It seems to work. In the mid season tournament, they gave him a half a million each.

[Rich Paul]

All Star has always been the same. You know how many All Stars I've been to? A lot.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Before.

[Rich Paul]

Before LeBron was in the league, I was going to All Star games.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

And it's always been the same. Before that I watched all the all star games in 1992. When. Or what's that year when Magic in Orlando, when Magic shot, hit the threes over, they was taking turns. It was mj, it was Isaiah, et cetera. All Star games have always been played the same way. We have this revisionist history.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, no, it's not that.

[Rich Paul]

Four hard quarters.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I'm not, I'm not. You're right. It's always the same thing. They mess until the fourth quarter.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

What I'm saying is we could do better than that. We could have a competitive game. I like USA versus the world, east versus West. Play a game.

[Rich Paul]

I like the east versus West. I'm not, you know, I want to try this. Let's see how it works out. I'm supportive of that. But also I believe in our players and I believe that we can talk to our players and say, and when I say our, I'm not talking about players that are represent. I'm talking about all the players in the league that become All Stars. I believe in our union and I believe in the league and have a real conversation and say, hey, listen, this is what it's going to be like.

[Max Kellerman]

In real life though. It doesn't matter what kind of speech Adrian gives.

[Rich Paul]

Hockey, not a speech.

[Max Kellerman]

He's not going to speak Clubber Lang, you know, like not in real life.

[Rich Paul]

But here's what I'm saying. It's not a speech. And this is the problem. This is the problem. It goes back to youth sports. There's a world where you can sit down and hold people accountable. It's just a conversation. And you know what? If, if, if, if it's like a. It's like a track record. When the police pull you over for speeding, if you don't have a resume of speeding. They normally let you go, give you a warning.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, that explains a few things.

[Rich Paul]

We got it on tape. If you want to dog, if you want to lollygag through. Okay, we understand that. So now when it comes down to the voting, going back to the voting systems, which also need to be changed from all NBA to and other votes, it's just a conversation, I believe.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it's just.

[Rich Paul]

We're adults, man. You can have a conversation, but in.

[Max Kellerman]

Terms of really changing it, Rich, just give the winning team a half a million a pop like they did the tournament. It worked.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, man, listen.

[Max Kellerman]

Should we not make our predictions for the super bowl until Friday?

[Rich Paul]

No, let's wait till Friday.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay. Well, Seattle's gonna win. Yes, we'll wait till Friday.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, perfect. Wait till Friday.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over. Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. He's getting info on the trade deadline right now. You didn't say please subscribe.

[Rich Paul]

No. Oh, yes. Sorry, but I got to stay locked in.

[Max Kellerman]

Who's getting traded?

[Rich Paul]

Nobody's getting traded.

[Max Kellerman]

You'll find out on Wednesday.

[Rich Paul]

But yes, not only do you subscribe, but give us insights. Thank you.

[Max Kellerman]

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