The East Is in the House: Tatum Returning, and Hornets Buzzing

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: "The East Is in the House: Tatum Returning, and Hornets Buzzing"

Host: The Ringer
Date: March 6, 2026

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Episode Overview

On this episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dive deep into NBA storylines with a distinct focus on the Eastern Conference. They provide analysis and banter about Jayson Tatum's imminent return to the Celtics, the surging Charlotte Hornets, and team constructions across the league. They also address mailbag questions, touch on NBA officiating gripes, and even indulge in an extended, energetic foodie conversation reflecting on their favorite (and most underrated) food cities in America. The rapport is casual, often humorous, and full of in-the-know NBA references, making the episode highly accessible and entertaining for basketball fans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Geek Squad Saga & Working Man’s Woes (00:35 - 03:06)

• Max and Rich open with personal banter about Max’s struggles getting home tech help—a relatable window into modern service frustrations.
• Max humorously frames their jobs as “the ultimate hustle”:

  "You got into an industry where you get free ringside seats... get paid a lot of money for doing such a hustle. It’s unbelievable." — Max (02:44)

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2. Final Four, NCAA Talk & Upset Potential (04:45 - 05:36)

• Brief contemplation on the men’s NCAA tournament landscape: likely dominance of top seeds (Arizona, UConn, Michigan, Duke), but always the possibility of an upset.
• Commentary on standout collegiate players and how teams might disrupt chalk outcomes.

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3. Book Excerpt & Ecosystem/Eastern Conference Theme (06:34 - 07:14):

• Rich references an excerpt from his book, centering on the motto "never submit to your surroundings," tying it to the concept of ecosystems in sports and team building.
• Sets up the day's recurring theme: the Eastern Conference taking center stage.

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4. Jayson Tatum’s Return & Celtics Dynamics (07:14 - 18:19)

Discussion Points:

• Opening with the repeated phrase: "When the east is in the house—Oh my God. Danger."
• Tatum’s quote, as reported to his doctors: “I’m not coming back to be a role player” (09:12).
  • Max worries: Does this disrupt Celtics chemistry with Jaylen Brown’s emergent MVP-level status?
  • Rich argues in favor of embracing “whole teams,” challenging why basketball—unlike football—is preoccupied with role disruption at star return.
• Media’s focus on potential tension between Brown and Tatum:

  "It's a little more fraught than it ought to be... especially if you’re Jaylen Brown... Just common sense says that's a lot of ego for two. They’re really two number ones." — Max (13:17)

• Rich on the cost of not being “whole”:

  "If the opportunity cost of us not having a complete team is the championship, why wouldn’t you [try]?" (15:01)

• On the physical challenge for Tatum post-injury and the impressive drive to return so quickly:

  "We just skip over this thing that an Achilles injury is like this thing that you can just have a walk in the park about. That’s a real thing." — Rich (18:06)

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5. Wemby, Jokic, and The Spurs’ Dominance (19:00 - 23:14)

• Spurs beat the Pistons—discussion turns to Wembanyama's rise:
  • Max ponders: Is Wemby or Jokic the league's best player?
  • Both agree Wemby has a skill set like a "three," (small forward), not just a big.

    "Wemby is a wing stretched out, and Wemby is KD stretched out." — Max (20:04)

• Spurs’ depth, development, and future dynasty potential:

  "If this team stays healthy, they will be what people thought OKC were." — Max (23:13)

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6. Building the Pistons: The Missing Piece (24:09 - 29:40)

• Pistons are far ahead of schedule but now require a secondary scorer.
• Max: Who should Detroit target as the complementary piece to Cade?
• Rich prescribes not a specific player but a profile:

  “You target a four-man, a stretch. A versatile 4-man, can switch… [and] get a starting guard to go alongside Cade… or a backup who has the maturity… to come off the bench but finish games.” (25:29)

• Brief candid speculation about Dejounte Murray as a fit.

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7. LeBron’s Next Team & Aging Stars (29:40 - 34:08)

• Max floats the idea that LeBron would be a “perfect fit” for the Pistons:

  “LeBron James on the Pistons would make sense. It would make sense.” (30:45)

• Rich is cagey but agrees LeBron’s IQ/vision is second to none and will preserve his value:

  "The last thing to go is your mind… we know he’s like the Jetsons of IQ and basketball.” (32:06)

• Max praises LeBron’s ability to “summon” peak moves, even in brief bursts as an older player.

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8. Hornets Surge & The Power of Youth and Ecosystem (35:02 - 47:41)

• Hornets’ starting five is 20-2 when together; glowing focus on rookie Con Knippel and his ROTY candidacy.
• Rich credits Charlotte’s management, praises the slow-growth approach over rash free agency moves:

  “I don’t think you force free agency if you're the Charlotte Hornets. I really don’t. I think what you gain in the time of free agency is maturity and development.” (38:48)

• Discussion of team chemistry, player development habits, importance of returning to market early, and the cultural rise of LaMelo Ball as a future face of the league.
• Rich on LaMelo’s unique Gen Z appeal:

  “If you just did the data, he’s going to be way up there in terms of connectivity.” (43:39)

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9. Refereeing Controversy & Max’s “Five Minute Max” (48:52 - 54:46)

• Max vents about a controversial no-call involving SGA and Jalen Brunson in Knicks-OKC game, arguing NBA refs are protecting stars at the expense of integrity:

  “This is a bullshit rule applied in a bullshit way to make sure the refs have enough wiggle room not to hit the league MVP with three fouls in the first quarter… That’s so clearly what happened.” (51:14)

• Admits he’d celebrate if his team benefited, but is frustrated by lack of fair application.

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10. Mailbag Highlights (54:49 - 62:59)

Talent Evaluation

• Rich discusses how often initial reads on prospects pan out:

  “Has there been a few times where you thought a guy with his makeup and skill set… should probably have become a much better player than they became? Yes, of course… Maybe two out of 10 times.” (57:08)

• Jokic cited as a rare, massive overachiever ("I've never seen that before"). (56:44)

Jordan in the Modern NBA

• Max and Rich debate whether MJ could average 40+ points in today's league.
  • Max: "He might have even averaged in the mid-40s."
  • Rich pushes back, citing today's defensive versatility and different mentality but agrees MJ’s efficiency was unmatched.

Most Underrated Food City

• Both name Los Angeles as the most underrated, citing diversity and depth beyond the usual high-end fare:

  “There’s some hole-in-the-wall, Mexican, Greek food truck, sushi spot, no doubt, that you can get that people don’t even know about.” — Max (65:21)

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11. Food, Family & Community Vibes (66:06 - 70:10)

• Rich shares memories of soul food and his mother's and grandmother’s cooking.
• Observes: “I’m soul-fooded out. My grandmother used to make me wash those greens…” (66:41)
• Both reminisce on grandparent-cooked meals and imagine a restaurant run by “aunties” or “grandmas."
• Rich introduces “tender-nism”—viral videos showcasing ultra-tender meat, underscoring community and tradition.

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12. Wrap Up: Weekend Plans & Closing Banter (71:25 - 72:45)

• Max tries to get Rich to the Zuffa boxing fight; Rich's weekend is about golf.
• Casual ribbing: “Let me tell you why I like the challenge… one thing about a driver that slices every time you hit the ball. It’s pretty challenging.” — Rich (71:46)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Never submit to your surroundings." — The day's thematic anchor (06:59)
• Tatum to his doctor: “I’m not coming back to be a role player.” (09:12)
• On basketball’s ecosystem:

  “If the opportunity cost of us not having a complete team is the championship, why wouldn't you [try]?” — Rich (15:01)

• On Wemby’s position:

  “He’s actually a small forward. That’s what’s crazy about it.” — Max (19:39)

• On team chemistry:

  “They’re called the Boston Celtics, not the Boston Browns or the Boston Tatums.” — Rich (14:13)

• On the Hornets’ rise:

  “When you get that first piece of candy, you want more… That’s what winning is.” — Rich (39:33)

• On food and culture:

  “I want just once a week or biweekly I can go to an LA family… to feed you home-cooked food.” — Rich (68:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Tatum’s Return & Celtics Chemistry (07:14–18:19)
• Wemby, Spurs, and The Bigs (19:00–23:14)
• Pistons: The Missing Piece (24:09–29:40)
• LeBron’s Potential Fit (29:40–34:08)
• Hornets Analysis & ROTY Debate (35:02–47:41)
• Max’s Ref Rant (“Five Minute Max”) (48:52–54:46)
• Mailbag: Talent Evaluation, MJ in Today’s League, Food Cities (54:49–66:06)
• Food, Family, and Tender-nism (66:06–70:10)

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Final Impression

This episode blends serious analysis with playful—and occasionally sentimental—banter. Max and Rich consistently bring high-level nuance to basketball talk, traverse into culture, and even connect it to food and family, demonstrating why their dynamic translates so well to podcasting. For NBA fans wanting not only the latest news but also the human and cultural layer underneath, “The East is in the House” is a compelling, wide-ranging listen.

Transcript

[A]

Ugh.

[B]

You said you were over him, but his hoodie's still in your rotation. It's time. Grab your phone, snap a few pics, and sell it on depop. Listed in minutes with no selling fees. And just like that, a guy 500 miles away just paid full price for your closure. And right on cue.

[A]

Hey. Still got my hoodie?

[B]

Nope. But I've got tonight's dinner paid for. Start selling on depop. Where taste recognizes taste list. Now with no selling fees, payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details.

[A]

Happy Friday, Max.

[C]

Yeah. Geek Squad's supposed to show up again today, Rich. That's the third time. Third time they've been scheduled.

[A]

You know what? This is great content that we're missing out on.

[C]

What's that?

[A]

I should have a camera on you when the Geek Squad does not show.

[C]

They showed this time. They rang the bell. Apparently, they had three people in the house. No one heard them ring the bell. Then they call from a number you can't call back to and said, oh, we have to go. And then that's it. Done.

[A]

This is what happens when you're a part of the Cheap Squad.

[C]

How am I the Cheap Squad?

[A]

Because I keep telling you what to do and you refuse to listen.

[C]

I'm not myself walking, you know, I'm not going to the Apple Store. I'm not going to Best Buy. I'm not going to any of those places where you got to stand around half the day.

[A]

You're not having wifi.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

You're not having cable.

[C]

I'll die on that hill. Yeah, I'll die on that hill.

[A]

We'll send somebody else in there to make the.

[C]

That's. I'm gonna have to. Well, let's see if they show up today.

[A]

You know what it's called? Third time improvising.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know, man. They just better show up.

[A]

And you're from a big city.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You grew up having to improvise.

[C]

You know what I don't like, though? The way these companies do it now, it's like. So they put a situation where they mess up and there's no one to talk to. You're talking to someone from another country who's in a phone bank. They have a supervisor who's just gonna tell you the same thing they're gonna tell you. There's no way to get in touch with the people responsible, and that's it.

[A]

What did you think it was gonna be like? Somebody giving you, like, water with lemons?

[C]

But again, that's what I'm saying. Like, for someone who has a little juice or something, it's one thing. How does the working man do it? I don't know how the working man does it. Cause this is work. It's not real work I'm talking about.

[A]

No, it's actually real work. Anytime you have to leave a depot, go to someone's house, you don't know what you're walking into. Because everyone doesn't live the same. You don't know the attitude.

[C]

No, they're doing real work. I'm saying I'm not doing real work.

[A]

Oh, you're saying you're not doing. You've never had a real job before.

[C]

We get paid well and we get to mess around to do it. But the working man who has an actual job, he doesn't even like to go to. It's not a career. If he needs to get wifi or something. What does he do when people miss appointments?

[A]

You're actually one of the smartest people I know. Because you figured it out. You know what you did, right?

[C]

What's that?

[A]

You got into an industry where you get free ringside seats.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You get free courtside seats. You get free access to suite rich sideline cut. Cut. That's actually. And on top of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You get paid a lot of money

[C]

for doing such a hustle. It's unbelievable.

[A]

It's put you up there with the ultimate hustlers of like.

[C]

Let me tell you something. Any kids watching American History.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Kids watching this who are like, man, I wish I could do that. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. It's an unbelievable scam. Really. Like, we talk about sports. We be doing this anyway.

[A]

I mean, we do it all the time. We did it for free.

[C]

Yeah, for free. For like a year and a half.

[A]

Don't tell Spot.

[C]

I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know what? Let's start the show, please.

[C]

You want to do just start like that?

[A]

Yeah. Because I have a feeling that we're going to dilute ourselves and keep talking.

[C]

All right.

[A]

I wish. You know what? I'm going to go and get to Geek Squad, because they will.

[C]

They're supposed to come today. I got everything happening today. I got everyone. I need to set everything up at the house.

[A]

The squad won't be there today.

[C]

Why?

[A]

Because the person that you supposed to have coming today. Yeah. They got up this morning, got a fresh haircut, feeling good. It's gonna be 77 degrees outside.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They're not stopping the idea of coming to your house and do anything with wives.

[C]

You should have heard me on the phone with them. Like, let me tell you something on my show on Friday. I'm gonna buy. You know what I mean? I'm gonna put you talking to you.

[A]

You just said in the geeks. The geek.

[C]

No, it's. I'm talking to someone in Indonesia or wherever they're located or, you know, they're not here. They're not talking.

[A]

The reality of it is you can come over my house and watch whatever.

[C]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go to your house. I have to drive all the way to your house to watch.

[A]

It's all good.

[C]

All right, Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[A]

Game [e-mail]. do we have emails today?

[C]

We got, by the way. Now, see, now that we showed the people, we're actually going to get to them now we're getting.

[A]

Emails are rolling in.

[C]

Yeah, the emails are rolling.

[A]

What about suggestions on if we should do this at the Final Four?

[C]

I don't. I didn't see any of those.

[A]

Okay, well, they're not listening then.

[C]

Yeah, we should do it at the final Four.

[A]

Okay, well then we don't need to suggest it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I think. Don't you think?

[A]

I think so. I mean, I would like to. I mean, I plan to go anyway.

[C]

Plus, the final, the final Four might just be chalked this year. It is hard to think of any of those teams who can be getting bumped.

[A]

What, Arizona, UConn, Michigan, Michigan and Duke. Yeah.

[C]

Texas Tech.

[A]

Well, they lost. They lost. They lost. J.T. toppin. Yeah, but Christian Anderson has been playing really well.

[C]

Anderson has been playing well.

[A]

But you can also get upset.

[C]

Lewis.

[A]

Ish. I don't. I don't think there's always upsets in ncaa. We'll see.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You think four number ones get to the final Four?

[C]

It's a good, good chances here.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Good chances here. They're definitely. Those are the four number ones, though. Yeah.

[A]

Let's see.

[C]

All right, we'll start.

[A]

Show started.

[C]

This episode of Game over is presented to you by Loom. If your organization runs on endless email threads and status meetings, teams feel stuck. Unstuck them with Loom, the AI first video platform by Atlassian. Teams record their screen and share a link so others review on their own time. AI makes recording and editing one click and add summaries, action items and searchable transcripts so everyone gets clarity in minutes, not meetings. Replace unnecessary meetings. Speed up approvals and onboard faster. With Loom, you remove communication friction. It's a team changer. Try loom [e-mail]. Rich. Big news in the NBA tonight. Tatum's return, by the way, before we even get to that. What are you holding over there?

[A]

Well, we said we were gonna start taking out some. Some excerpts of the book, and I found a good one.

[C]

It's like our show bible. This is. Can you show the people? You gotta promote this.

[A]

I am gonna promote it. I'm promoting it.

[C]

This was on the New York Times bestseller list, right?

[A]

Yes, it was. And you were there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

60 Minute Special.

[C]

60 Minutes did a piece on it.

[A]

That's great.

[C]

No, lucky me.

[A]

Lucky me. But I opened it up to chapter 10, and there's. the end, I want to focus on.

[C]

Which is what?

[A]

Which is never submit to your surroundings.

[C]

Never submit to your surroundings.

[A]

Yeah, but I really want to tie that into. Focus on the importance of ecosystem. Really.

[C]

All right, Should. Let's start with Tatum.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

And then we'll get to. We'll get to ecosystems.

[A]

Yeah, no problem.

[C]

By the way, this is the theme all day today. The east is in the house.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

When the east is in the house.

[A]

J ruda, Damages.

[C]

This is Eastern Conference.

[A]

Play that song or. No.

[C]

No, we can't Spotify.

[A]

They got every music catalog in the world.

[C]

Can we hum the song? We can't even hum it.

[A]

You know what?

[C]

But what we can say is, when the east is in the house.

[A]

Oh, my God. Danger. Yeah, but let me tell you something. In the dice house at My Man Winks, what they call that is you just stop the bank. Right? So you know what? They telling us what we can't do? I'll stop the bank. I'll pay the fine. I'll pay the fine.

[C]

Well, we gotta get in touch with J Ru and just see if we can do it.

[A]

Yeah. Hey, J Rue, can we play the record, please? Yeah, we should take him to.

[C]

Dude, you gotta have him in your. There's no Rolodex. That's how old I am. I want to call it a Rolodex. There's no Rolodex anymore. But you have them in your phone. You have to.

[A]

Well, it's not a Rolodex. But you have a Rolex.

[C]

Yes. Yes. You don't have them in your Rolex, though.

[A]

No. Okay.

[C]

Thing is, J Rue hears we want to play a song. It's going to cost. A Rolex is the problem.

[A]

Maybe not. Well, now it would. Your big mouth.

[C]

Cut that out. Edit it out.

[A]

He may not even. He may have just been, like, fans of the show. Like you know what they showing me? Love. Damn, you're really costing us.

[C]

You're gonna have to put me up on this business thing.

[A]

I know. You never had to sneak snacks into the movie the way you're acting. What? Not the way you're acting, Rich.

[C]

My father taught me how to walk backwards into movie theaters. And it works. Back then they were called blockbusters. Back then. Empire Strikes Back or something would come out, right. Sold out. You can't get in. You wait until everyone's walking out and you walk with the crowd backwards into the movie theater. And it works.

[A]

I think he just wanted to see if you were like, what they call it when it's like, counterclockwise. He wanted to see if your equilibrium was.

[C]

Oh, I see. I see.

[A]

He tricked you to think it was about the movie.

[C]

You know, whose equilibrium has to be on Rich Tatum coming back is. Listen, what do you. Okay. He has said the quote is going around. Apparently he said this to his doctor. I'm not coming back to be a role player. Right. That makes me a little bit nervous.

[A]

No, actually, that's a pretty dope bar.

[C]

Okay. Why?

[A]

I'm just saying I like the bar, but I'm not. I'm not. I'm not going to buy into that. I. You want to know what you think or you want to know?

[C]

I want to know what you think.

[A]

What I think is what I think. Coming off the fact what Kevin Durant said the other day, right. He talked about. Not the second apron stuff, but he talked about parody in the NBA. Okay, so there's parody in the NBA, meaning that we think that anybody could win a championship. Right? There's no. There may be a slightly favored team,

[C]

but I count four in the West. And how many in the East?

[A]

Austin, maybe six people. New York, six teams can get out to East.

[C]

Cleveland, Detroit, Detroit, Atlanta, the whole Charlotte, we have to get to. And by the way, Atlanta's a good pull, too.

[A]

Even if they can't win it all,

[C]

they could bump something they could play. Spoiler.

[A]

We didn't say the Sixers healthy seven seven. So this is what I'm saying.

[C]

It's the whole conference in terms of the playoffs.

[A]

You can never count the Heat to beat you in a series.

[C]

Heat ain't getting out of the East.

[A]

Yeah, but they could upset.

[C]

They could upset one of the other teams.

[A]

Yeah, they could spoil your vacation plans for sure. What I'm saying is, when you have that. All I know is I want to be whole.

[C]

Right?

[A]

I want to be whole. I want to have as Many players on my team that you have to game plan for. And when you have an all NBA, all first team, all NBA first team player coming back, whether that's 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, 110%, that person you have to game plan for. Because when you talk about parity, you talk about matchups, you talk about the league today and how hard it is to win a championship. You cannot punt on a season, half a season.

[C]

Except listen, Rich, if the doctor says listen, more rest is not going to, is not going to do anything in terms of the potential for catastrophic injury. He is where he is, he's good to go. If that's where they are, then definitely you're right, he needs to come back. But my point is this. Is there a scenario where I could see Tatum and the Celtics winning the chip this year? Yeah, but that has to be played just right. Like Jalen Brown has been an MVP level player all season and they're winning when they were last playing together, Tatum was one and Brown was one. A right, like there was. And now all of a sudden, how does that work? I even think about mj. When he came back, the only time MJ didn't win the championship in under seven games, when he played with another all star was, well, this first year, Pippen was an all star. He got the migraine. But the only other time was when he came back almost at the exact same part of the season, right? 22, 23 games left, he didn't have his legs. They got bumped by the Magic. But this is more complicated because it wasn't like, well, who's the number one, Pippen or Jordan? But now it really is like, how does this work with Jaylen Brown and Tatum?

[A]

But see, Max, this is the issue with basketball, in my opinion, versus football. If a top receiver was coming back, no one would say anything about this, right?

[C]

True.

[A]

Because you need them. If a top running back was coming back, a tight end, offensive tackle, no one would say anything. Why is it in basketball we. We ask these guys to go out and win a championship, right, As a team, but then when they have the ability to actually be a complete team, we're like, maybe not because you don't want to mess up somebody's individual.

[C]

I'll tell you why in this case. I'll tell you why in this case. Because if you are in this business and you are more in it than I am, you're closer to all the action than I am. But even from where I sit, you hear things. And in terms of the feeling I get about what's going on there and how these guys feel about each other and everything. It's a little more fraught than it ought to be considering they've been to a million conference, you know, championships together and won a championship together. Right. So especially if you're Jaylen Brown and he's got to be feeling himself right now, given the way he's played. It's just like, even if you hadn't heard anything, common sense says that's a lot of ego for two. They're really two number ones.

[A]

I think that's being unfair to both guys. First of all, they're called the Boston Celtics, not the Boston Browns or the Boston Tatums.

[C]

So I think you just hit on it. Are they the Boston Browns or the Boston Tatums?

[A]

No, but I'm just saying it's like, listen, because here's what's going to happen. I know, I've been there. I've been to damn near every finals over the last 20 years. I've been.

[C]

I think we met at a finals.

[A]

Yes. So at the end of the day, here's what happens when you don't have a complete team. You get a good coach on the other side that you're playing. And you know what? We're going to blitz this person every time. We're going to trap this person every time. We're going to make somebody else beat us every time.

[C]

Yeah. The Detroit Pistons right now.

[A]

Yeah. So at the end of the day, if. If the opportunity cost of us not having a complete team is the championship, why wouldn't you.

[C]

You have to try. I'm not saying you shouldn't.

[D]

You're going to do it.

[A]

Good for them.

[C]

I'm curious to see how it works out. And then finally, the reason.

[A]

Yeah, but we shouldn't sell. My thing is the problem I have is again, I guess I'm like 1 18th of media in some sort. Would that be 1?

[C]

18?

[A]

What you mean 1. I'm doing a show.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Oh, you mean in terms of your overall business?

[A]

No, I'm just saying in terms of me now speaking about the game.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. You're in the media with the platform.

[A]

Why is it that anybody that has an education or an experience or an expertise in the sport, why aren't we pushing in a different manner to really embrace the fact that, hey, no, this is great, guys. We should be pushing that. I see a lot of platforms is like the opposite thing, and it's just not great.

[C]

I think it's more. First of all, I See what you're mean? Yes. If I'm a Celtics fan, I'm psyched that Tatum's coming back. I hate the Celtics because I'm from New York, but. And then nla. So you. I doubly hate the Celtics. However, as a basketball fan, you can see what it is. And as a Celtics fan, I'd be psyched. Even if I were a Celtics fan though, I would wonder. I brought up MJ coming back almost at the same point, like 20 something games left in the year. The real thing was he didn't have his basketball legs. I don't care how you're working out if you're not playing every night, the basketball legs are something different. So I'm also curious to see what that looks like. Right. Like what? And here's the other thing, Rich. You want to spin it in a positive way and because from your side of the industry, you see. Hear a lot of negative stuff in the media and I think in your position and a lot of people outside

[A]

of the industry, I bought my side. I actually paid the geek squad so I can watch the shows in the morning.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I hear it. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so there's a sense that like, hey, let's be more positive. Here's something positive because Tatum probably doesn't have his legs underneath him fully to the extent that Brown does. Maybe that naturally helps things because in terms of the minutes he can play at what level of intensity and everything, it naturally lends itself to Brown doing a little bit more as he's been doing all season.

[A]

How much, how much better is it to have 70 to 80% of the, of a first team all NBA perennial all star champion that shoots 40% from three. And that is 610 and can play

[C]

some defense too, by the way.

[A]

Yeah, like I'm just, I'm.

[C]

Of course it should make them better.

[A]

And what's the record of the Boston Celtics right now?

[C]

Good. They're. What are they? The three?

[A]

They have any losses?

[C]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

How many?

[C]

I don't know how many off the top of my head, but they got.

[A]

Okay, but. Right. So that means that, that they're not

[C]

undefeated this year at this point in the season.

[A]

We can move. But the east is in the house.

[C]

Oh my God.

[A]

East is in the house.

[C]

So, so let's. But here, look, in this case, here's the other thing.

[A]

I'm happy to listen. We just skip over this thing that an Achilles injury is like this thing that you can just have a walk in the park about. That's a real thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it happened on a big stage in a key moment. And to have the mindset and the drive and the willingness to attack this injury. KD was out two years and be ready right now. That's impressive.

[D]

They say you should learn something new every day. Like how you should only drink Jagermeister at 0 degrees Fahrenheit, ice cold, like those frozen cavemen they find. Which makes you wonder, what would a caveman think of Jagermeister? Well, if you served it warm, he'd probably throw it in your face, say, unga bunga, and storm off. And nobody wants that. So drink it cold or not at all. Jagermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jagermeister Liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume. Imported by Mast. Jagermeister U.S. white Plains, New York.

[C]

So spurs beat the Pistons. More east is in the house. Well, why is the east in the house? The spurs won that game. Wemby had 38 and 16. Oh, Wemby's great. We all know that.

[A]

You know, and Fox played well.

[C]

To me, the question is, is Wemby or Jokic the best player in the game? The funny thing is, I said the other day, this is the first time in 20 years that two bigs are the top two players in the game, right? Probably.

[A]

Oh, it's not Giannis.

[C]

Was this.

[A]

You know, consider Giannis.

[C]

Not quite. But. But that's. That's getting to what I'm talking about, though.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Wemby's.

[A]

Wemby's really a three skill set wise, for sure.

[C]

He's actually a small forward. That's what's crazy about it. He's not a. You know, like, when you think of matches, I remember when Porzingis came in the league, he's a rookie and he's matched up against Kevin Love, supposedly at the 4. And it's like, well, this is unfair right away. Right?

[A]

Like, the difference is. Wemby skill set actually is a three is of what a wing would definitely have because he could put the ball on the floor.

[C]

KD is a wing stretched out, and Wemby is KD stretched out.

[A]

Yeah. He's like double RL versus, like quadruple rl. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Cinco rl.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. No, listen, I. I said this to you. I said, listen, when you. When you watch him warm up.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For a guy to shoot the ball, as one of the better shooters in the world myself, for a guy to shoot the ball, the way he does the rotation, how the ball Comes off of his fingertips. And the way he puts the ball on the floor.

[C]

Yep. Do you know the way he can get his shot off the bounce?

[A]

For him to dribble the ball, it has to come back to his hand. Taller than me.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And I'm 62 taller than me.

[C]

So when you think you're an NBA 6, too.

[A]

Here you go, Max. You know what? We're just going to get some tape and just. We have to get the mute button for you. You're costing me a lot of money today.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And it's going. Michael Price is in the house. And yesterday's price won't be today's price, I can guarantee you that. So

[C]

I've said on this show, the spurs, to me, are the favorites to win the whole thing. Yes, you have, because they have dominated.

[A]

Well, no, you picked the Pistons first.

[C]

No, no, I said I was this close to picking the Pistons.

[A]

You.

[C]

You said the Pistons need a number two scorer. And. And I said, well, let's see. And then I said, okay. The next day I was like, okay, you're right. I give up ideas fast. If I see evidence, you know, if

[A]

I'm like that, they just need like a. You know, Arthur Treacher should be one of my favorite restaurants. They need, like, the fish and chips, but with, like, extra fries.

[C]

Okay, I want to get to that. I mean, I wanted to talk a little bit about whatever. Like, the spurs dominate okc. They beat everybody on the road. They're the best team in.

[A]

The thing about the spurs, when they lost in Detroit, it was Vassell Champagne. They had pretty good games, but Fox and Wemby didn't have that good of a game.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Just yesterday, actually, Wemby had 38 and 16. I think De' Aaron had what, 29.

[C]

The fact that they have guys like Vascella and Champagne, you don't even think about those guys. When you think about. I mean, you think about them. When you think about the spurs and the nucleus and going forward, what that is.

[A]

You.

[C]

You don't even think about two guys like that, and they're both excellent and can beat you.

[A]

Well, here's what I think about. One was a regular season game style of play. The other one was a playoff game style of play. And in the playoffs, when you have two guys that you can put in pick and roll actions and force your defense to move, it actually makes. You have to make a choice. So actually we stay home with the shooters and. Or we try to, you know, stop these guys.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

If you have depth, the Way the Spurs have depth, you can only hope that the guys that are open don't play well.

[C]

The scary thing is Rich, if they get it done this year, which I'd make them the odds on favorite, if they get it done this year, it's

[A]

more land to build on.

[C]

You know how much Cassell and Harper are going to get better. Like if this team stays healthy, they will be what people thought OKC were.

[A]

Well, the scary thing about that is the sooner you can see your young guys developed, the more you're able to game plan strategically and. Cause what happens is when a team rush in free agency, you tend to

[C]

overpay like I wanted them to do for Giannis. Hey, trade either Castle or Harper and

[A]

maybe tend to stunt the growth of the plan that you had in place. When you can have young guys that you drafted, they develop, they plan well. Carter Bryant's a sleeper on that team.

[C]

If they can steal one this year ahead of schedule. So. All right, so I want to get to the Pistons because this was under the heading when the east is in the house. So you didn't say it. I said when the east is in the house.

[A]

Oh my God.

[C]

Danger. So thank you. So sorry. But you. I was this close to taking the Pistons to do what the spurs are actually probably going to do and steal one before their time. Right. You said they don't have a secondary score. Once you. If they deny Cade the ball, if they just focus on Cade, it's going to be a problem. You were right. Next day I came and said, okay, you're right. When I saw what the spurs did to them and it's pretty clear. So my question to you is this.

[A]

But that means not happy days in Detroit. It just means you.

[C]

No doubt. But my question to you, they're way ahead of schedule.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

What is the piece that. Let's just assume for a second Detroit's a tough out, but they will go out.

[A]

You said who is.

[C]

I'm saying, yeah. Who's the piece that if assuming Detroit doesn't win at all this year, I think it's a safe assumption. Who's the piece that you would target if you're Detroit in the off season to take that next step? When I look around and say you need to bring in a secondary scorer, that's a lot. To be the second best player probably on a or scorer on a championship team, that's a lot. It's not easy to find and it's expensive. Who do you target?

[A]

That is a very good question. I don't Know the who just yet, but I do know the what.

[C]

Okay, what?

[A]

I think you target a four man, a stretch.

[C]

A guy who can stretch the floor.

[A]

A versatile 4.4meaning can stretch, can post pretty good from the 3.

[C]

A versatile 4 man can switch and all this kind of stuff.

[A]

Okay, but I think you get a two for one in this.

[C]

All right.

[A]

A versatile four man. And then you either get. See, championship teams are so vital when you got guys that are willing to buy into the role. You can get a starting guard to go alongside of Cade.

[C]

Cade. A two guard.

[A]

Not to no offenses, whoever they already have, or keep the starting lineup exactly how it is and get a backup guard who's actually a starter but has the, has the maturity and the understanding that for this team I'm actually going to come off the bench to start games, but I'm going to finish games.

[C]

A six man, two guard.

[A]

Yeah. Or one. Two.

[C]

Why one?

[A]

Because what happens is Cade is so good that you can move him over to the three.

[C]

Yes, because he's big.

[A]

Yeah, but he's. But he's also.

[C]

Yeah, he's kind of like Jalen Rose that way where he's a 6 foot 7 plus point guard. And Jalen was great in the playoffs when they play him off, but they play him at the 3 and he gave you 20 something.

[A]

But, but, but in the playoffs what happens is, especially at the end of games, you need multiple playmakers.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But you also need the other pieces. So you may not start the game like that. The best example I can give you this was Ginobili.

[C]

There ain't no man who Ginobili uses.

[A]

I know, but I'm just saying it's the back.

[C]

Okay, so let's think about this. Who is a backup point guard who would accept the role as a starting point guard? Okay. A starting point guard level player who can play, make and score and all that stuff. Who would accept the role as a six man but knowing he would start at the point or on the team at the end of a game.

[A]

Who is that? Well, who is that?

[C]

What I like about that is he comes cheaper. Right. So he's more acquirable.

[A]

Well, not that cheap, but cheaper than.

[C]

But cheaper than a max.

[A]

But what I'm saying is we don't know if he'll start or come off the bench. The difference is if he's a starting caliber player who, if JB asks him to come off the bench, is not going to pout.

[C]

So not gonna just be the NBA.

[A]

I don't know. I don't Know the who.

[C]

I'm just.

[A]

I'm just telling you what I've been around. What I know it takes to actually

[C]

win a player on a team that would give him up, meaning a team that's not really in contention and they

[A]

may already have him because, listen, the

[C]

young kid, Dejounte Murray.

[A]

Well, now, wait a minute.

[C]

Now.

[A]

Now you. I mean, I can't speak on that, but that's a hell of a. I.

[C]

Okay, okay. I love the idea of. That's a. What I love about that. There's an acquirable player. Not going to break the bank. Not going to be cheap, but not going to break the bank. Not going to break the bank. That's starting guard in terms of, like, what you need to send to get him. Not going to break the bank to what you have to pay him. He's not cheap, but. Okay, you bring him in. He's the type of player you would think would accept the role because he's a high IQ player. He does a lot of things well. He came up in a system that teaches people the right way. But even if you added Dejounte Murray to the Pistons next year, that forward you're talking about has to be like, the talent has to be pitched high for the number two scorer on the team. Now you need a four that you're talking about to be a great player, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And how do you acquire that?

[A]

For clarity? I'm not speaking on the whole. I'm just speaking on the. What? Okay, a four and a guard that can either start and play alongside or is a starting caliber guy, but for the sake of the team.

[C]

Rich. Completely, completely separate subject. Okay, okay, we're done with that subject. And now I want to bring up a completely separate subject that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Okay, Rich. I know where LeBron James should play next year.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

I have a thought about where he could possibly fit in.

[A]

You and everybody. You know what's crazy about all that? You know, this person know. Everyone knows. The reality of it is nobody actually knows.

[C]

I know. I have a really good idea.

[A]

You have a good idea?

[C]

I have a good idea. Because I'm looking. I'm thinking about a team that could use what LeBron James does to put them over at the top and win a championship. Well, if he plays. I'm thinking about a team that is really just. If they acquire a guard who could play as a six man or a starter, and they needed a four who could stretch the floor, play with a high iq and do all the things they need him to do and maybe take over a game. If they need him to take over a game. LeBron James on the Pistons would make sense. It would make sense.

[A]

Max, I'm going to be a great teammate to you. I am going to listen to your crazy, crazy, crazy ideas.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I'm going to put all the onus on you when you name these players.

[C]

If only I knew someone who knew LeBron James. Get that.

[A]

And these crazy ideas that you have. All I would tell you is there seems to be a lot of chatter about things that even I don't know about. I can't tell you what's going. Probably because he hasn't decided what's not going to happen. But what I will tell you is, man, every night I'm enjoying the games.

[C]

Rich, the pass, they brought it up on the broadcast and they lost to the Nuggets, but they were getting beaten up by the Nuggets, and it didn't. And at Denver, a tough place to play. They were a couple missed key shots away from maybe taking that game to overtime. The way the flow was going late in the game, LeBron James in the third quarter, third or fourth quarter, early in the fourth or late in the third, there were multiple possessions, I want to say three in a row, that reminded you of how great he was. Like, I love when older players play like they used to. They can't do it as long as sustained for a whole game, both ends. But he had three consecutive possessions with, like, genius level LeBron James passes, assists, that brought them back into the game.

[A]

Well, I would say that's the thing. Like, when guys get older, you have to evaluate the parts of their game that actually gets older as well. And depending on what they're dependent of, does the age actually affect that? Now most people will say, what's the first thing to go? Athleticism. Right, Right. We know that's the first thing to go. You're not gonna be athletic forever, but the last thing to go is your mind. If you have an iq. And we know he's like the Jetsons of IQ and basketball. Alien, you know, Martians. You say the Martian come down the.

[C]

Yeah, the death beams, pointed Earth. Bring us to. I used to say, bring us to your greatest athlete. You'll take him to LeBron James. Bring us to your smartest basketball player. It's either LeBron or Jokic or one or two other guys.

[A]

I've never been concerned about him aging in terms of actual number of years of aging. Because at the worst Case scenario, he's going to be one of the smartest players, if not the smartest player on the floor. And what makes him that is he split second. Split second. Like, he sees things where he'll get out, he'll run out really fast and know that's going to make the defense react, and you pass it to him, and then, boom, before the ball even gets to his hands. Great. He's passing it. Like last night, there was a play where Rui was behind. He was actually behind running on the. On the. On the.

[C]

Yeah, that was. That was in one of the three systems. Yeah. Dimes.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that was. That was wild.

[C]

You got something important going on over there?

[A]

Yeah, I don't know.

[C]

Just tell him I think he should go to the Pistons.

[A]

No, no, no.

[C]

There's more Easters in the house.

[A]

And there is more Easters in the house.

[C]

There is more Easters in the house, no question. By the way, I'll say something while we're doing that, before we get to the Easters in the house. Since JJ got in Luka's face, I gotta say, I know he got another Tech last night, and I get it. I get it. And, like, now it's catching up to him. Right? Like your reputation catches up to you and he's paying for it. Luka has been a little more willing to play in a better way, and I think that helps LeBron and the whole team. When Luka is not monopolizing the ball, things loosen up a little bit, and I see a trend in that direction. In spite of the Tech last night.

[A]

Max, I've asked you to have patience.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't have no patience. No. You just won't. You don't have any patience. And the reality of it is, there's. There's, you know, there's growth with all of us. Right. So sometimes you have to allow things to just settle in a little bit. Things tend to work themselves.

[C]

Three quarters done with the season. They should be kind of. All right, look, the Hornets, when the east is in the house, don't listen.

[A]

I'm so.

[C]

You know, I teed it up for you. It's like.

[A]

I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, let's hit it again. Hit it one more time.

[C]

When the east is in the house.

[A]

Oh, my God. Danger. You know what? I like that, but I think you're setting me up for, like, a publishing pay or something like that.

[C]

No, we could say it. We just can't, like, hum it. We can't.

[A]

You can hummus it.

[C]

You know, like, you know, like this used to happen on the radio. You couldn't use the word super bowl in a promotion or something. Like something wild. You literally can't say the word. I'd say like super spoon, fantastic bowl that you could say. But you couldn't say super bowl on a radio ad.

[A]

It was doing chili bowls.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a bad haircut.

[C]

Yeah. All right, so Hornets beat the Celtics. Their starting lineup when they have their best five guys on the floor is now I got it right here in huge bold print. Tom Hagen, 20 and 2.

[A]

That's their record.

[C]

22 with their best five on the floor. So a couple of questions for you. Con Knippel, rookie of the year.

[A]

I'm not. I think this is the. This is the closest it's been to a co Rookie of the year probably since it actually happened. With who? Grant and Jason Kidd. Yeah, I'm going to remain there. I'm not. I'm not ready to say yes just yet. But he's de. If he got it, I would not be surprised.

[C]

Yeah, Cooper flag, I think is going to be the better player. He has missed more games this year and his team is not playing as well as Khan's and Khan is a two way player also. But I never thought I would say that, that Cooper flag wouldn't be rookie of the year. But it's so close.

[A]

There's also a higher expectation coming in as a number one pick that we have to take into consideration. Yeah, it comes with a lot. And going into the environment that he

[C]

went into and Khan's in a better. On a better team. Let's be honest. 20 and 2.

[A]

Well, today they are. Yes.

[C]

All right. What's the biggest free agency need for Charlotte, do you think?

[A]

Well, before that, listen, I have to give my guy, Rick Snarl and Gabe, Jeff Peterson, Charles Lee. You have to give those guys. I mean, I'm happy for them because you buy a team, you have all these ideas, you try to make the right moves, you try to support people. I think Miles Bridges is the oldest tenured guy there from being originally drafted by the Hornets and to now see them being able to play some meaningful basketball, it's great for the NBA. So let me just say that. But to answer your question, what free agency moves? Yeah. See, this is where you want to drive the car too fast, Max.

[C]

Okay. I like driving fast.

[A]

You shouldn't.

[C]

Why?

[A]

How about your life, first of all? But.

[C]

Okay, you have to be in a car where if you're in an accident, it's the Other person who has the problem, I think. But I think you got to go.

[A]

I mean, you drive a Tonka truck.

[C]

It drives me crazy. Let me tell you something. It drives me crazy. The left lane is for passing, Rich. It's for passing. If you're not passing a car, get out of the left lane. That's my message to everyone in la.

[A]

Well, the bigger issue with that is you have to actually read the driving book before you take the test.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Yeah. I went to Sears and I just kind of like, you know, so if it's New Orleans shrimp basket, you want

[C]

to do a get rich quick on this because you're saying that they don't. That. That. That they. That. Forget about free agency.

[A]

No. Yeah, because here's the thing. I don't think. Yeah, I will allow you to get some richness here. I don't think you force free agency if you. The Charlotte Hornets. I really don't. I think what you gain in the time of free agency is maturity and development. And let me tell you why you got this young core. They're starting to jail. They're starting to play well. They're starting to play right, which is even more important. They're starting to play hard every night on both ends of the floor. The taste of winning is almost like what I wish never happened to me because I had cavities in every tooth in my mouth because I ate every piece of candy in my daughter's store.

[C]

But when you get that first piece

[A]

of candy, you want more and more. That's what winning is. So we're starting to see them going on the road and beating Boston. Not just beating them handily, beating them. That matters, Right? So now it's about, okay, how are we maturing? And when I say maturing, I'm not talking about you going from wearing sneakers to hard bottom shoes as a man. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is you mature in terms of how you're approaching the game. What's now more important to you, how you're spending your summers. Is there a group chat with the team? Are you getting together at some point in the summer to spend time with one another? And then one key element I think people and the viewers may not know about and understand is when you have training camp, right? This is not like going to college and you have a grad assistant on your floor and there's a. There's a curfew in the NBA. It's all on you. It's on you. So if Training camp starts Sept. 28. The team can ask you to come back into market, meaning come back into the city that you play in. Because most guys don't live there all year round. They can ask you. They can't make you do anything. So you could decide, I'm coming back two hours before training camp starts. I wouldn't advise that, but you can decide that. But for the guys that come in. And I get it, you got your summer. I would say no later than Labor Day. Get Labor Day weekend out the way after that. If you're serious about this. And you. And, you know, for the older guys, not so much. But when you're trying to really get there and take some strides that week, everybody's back in market. Unless you have something specifically personal. Maybe you got.

[C]

They shouldn't have to be told to come back. They should want to come back.

[A]

You want to come back. You in there early. It's the sign.

[C]

Everyone can relate to this. Sometimes they're in. There's some year in school where you like, your friends are all in the same class or whatever, and you. Or something's going on and you get up, you throw your clothes on, you run to school. You know, like there people can relate to that.

[A]

And I think. And what happens with that is, you know, guys just start playing a better brand of basketball. You start to watch film together. You start to stay after practice and work on things. No, look, if they set the. Set the screen this way, this how I want you to set the screen. Like. And when you think about the pieces they have. Yes. They drafted well, right? Then you have Miles, who, if Miles could have a Aaron Gordon like effect on a really good team, playing that dunker spot. He's. He's strong, he's athletic. He's come from Michigan State, which Tom is old. You. You cannot pass. You gotta play the right way. He also grew up playing, you know, for the family. He's a Flintstone. He came from Flint. So we know what's there from a basketball perspective. And so you have that. And he don't have an ego, so he's not trying to be the guy every night. But then you have guys like Canople. You have the other kid, James, that came from Duke. You pick a stud in Brandon Miller, who's a stud, right? And then you have a guy in Lamelo who. It's so interesting when we talk about the community of who could be the future faces of the league. We didn't mention Lamelo. But let me tell you something. If you just breaking down data this is just all based upon data. We always talk about the league wanting to get younger and having to attract younger viewership. Well, you know who's par for the course? My golf reference. Yeah, for that.

[C]

I didn't think it was a boxing reference. Yes, I understand.

[A]

Yeah. Is Lamelo.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if you. If you just opened up a mall, empty mall. Right. And you gave all these players, you know, a retail door, and you just allow.

[C]

Where the kids going. Come on.

[A]

Yeah, they're going to Lamello.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

No, if and why do you think? It's just because, like, they grew up, you know, all these kids today, they're not like, we had 3, 5 and 7 and channel 8 or 11. 11, yeah, whatever. I had 3, 5 and 8 in Cleveland. 19. You had whatever.

[C]

2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13.

[A]

Point being, they didn't have that. They had Facebook, they had Instagram, they had YouTube, you know, streaming. Influencing video games. You can stream and play the video game. They grew up. He had a series on Facebook. Right. Then you have style of play. So there's a relatability, there's a connectivity that comes to that. If we just did the data, he's going to be way up there in terms of connectivity. But what's missing has always been that platform in key moments to where there's a difference between hitting a game winner on a Tuesday night against the Milwaukee Bucks. But your record is like 8 and 29 versus. We're in the first round of the playoffs. We're playing well. I hit that step back. It's just different.

[C]

You know what's funny about that, Rich? I heard Frank Isola and Scal, they got a Scalabrini, have a radio show. I think it was Frank. I apologize. If it was someone else. I'm pretty sure it was. Who was like, they were talking about how they're winning now and how the kids connect to exactly what you're saying to Lamelo. I think it was Frank who said, we'll see now that they're winning, if they still like them. There's something about counterculture or youth culture or, you know, where when you start to win, you have success and the mainstream puts their arms around something. It's like they go the other way all of a sudden. They don't like it anymore because they lose control of it.

[A]

Yes, that is true, but I don't think that'll happen in this case, especially if you. Because what happens? So that's step one, but then step two of that is proper brand partners, proper brand strategy and execution. Right. Storytelling, all those things. But when you think about it, if you had to, because the game is there, right? It just hadn't been able to play meaningful. And it's getting better, right? And now the team is winning and all these things start to line up, and you just really have to really lock in and buy into that. So I would add him to that community with Tyrese Max hostile because

[C]

Knipple's getting the credit for turning that thing around because they suck. Then Canipple shows up, he's the rookie of the year, and now they're good.

[A]

Let me tell you something. The world would be a much better place if people didn't care so much about who got the credit.

[C]

But I'm saying to be the face of the league, you got to be getting the credit. That's why that's making it a little tough for Lamelo right now.

[A]

But he will. He will. Because it's one thing to have.

[C]

You gotta be the best player on the team. You have to be perceived as the best player on the team.

[A]

He is perceived as that. He is.

[C]

I don't know if that's gonna.

[A]

When the new baby is brought home into the family, they always get more attention to start. That's just how it works.

[C]

Dependent. But that baby's Michael Jackson. Then it turns out Jermaine and Tito,

[A]

it's like, well, Michael Jackson got more attention as that didn't matter. But what I'm saying to you is there's one thing to get credit. There's having connectivity.

[C]

Yeah, I know. It's a good point.

[A]

Compounds. I'm just telling you.

[C]

All right.

[E]

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[C]

Close your eyes.

[A]

Exhale.

[C]

Feel your body relax, and let go

[A]

of whatever you're carrying today.

[E]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[B]

And breathe.

[E]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts com today to save on your first order.

[C]

1-800-contacts. I got a five minute max.

[A]

I thought you had three five minute maxes within this show.

[C]

Ridiculous.

[A]

That's absurd. You had a 15 minute max.

[C]

That's absurd. Okay, so I'm supporting, so here it is.

[A]

But what is the five minute max?

[C]

This is something, Rich, that's been bothering me for a couple days now. And I, when it happened I thought the timing is such that I won't do it on the show.

[A]

I know you're not.

[C]

Because. Because. Because by then there'll be stuff intervening and there'll be other stuff to talk about. But it stuck with me.

[A]

He can't turn it loose.

[C]

Before I even say what it is, let me just say I know how it's going to be received. I'm being a homer. I know that it's, you know, for various reasons people are gonna think that I'm full of shit, but it's bothering me. And Rich, I think it's bigger than

[A]

just I heard in your voice when

[C]

we talked on the phone. So the Knicks are hot. They beat the spurs at home. They go on the road and beat the Raptors. And now they're hosting the defending champion OKC Thunder at the Garden. The Thunder have sga. They're not at full strength, but there is something closer to it. The Knicks have been playing a league best defense for a while now. And I know, I know Jalen Brunson gets all the same calls he gets when it's really a charge. He gets the fat, he gets the foul called on the other guy. I get it. He foul hunts. I get it. I get it. I also get that you can't say it comes down to this possession I'm about to mention because the Knicks had a real good chance to tie the game at the end with with a 3 anunoby at Brunson and then an OBI that good looks. They just didn't hit it. They lose the game. I'm not complaining about the loss. There was something so brazen about the way the refs swallowed their whistle or even worse, blew the whistle and at first charged Brunson with a blocking foul on sga. And then later upon review, it's like a no call. But the brazenness of that is bothering me two days later. And I'll tell you why. And I know they came out with an explanation with cockamamie rule about how. Well if it's. You're over here. No, no, stop. Everyone knows in the NBA it's just like the gather step bullshit, which is just an excuse to allow players to travel. It's bullshit. This is a bullshit bullshit rule applied in a bullshit way to make sure that the refs have enough wiggle room that they don't hit the league MVP with three fouls in the first quarter. Because then he's not playing for half the game. That's so clearly what happened. I don't care what rule you cite and how you're interpreting. If he's. If the defensive player establishes position and is not moving and it's one Mississippi, two Mississippi, I mean, you know, come on. And the offensive player puts his shoulder down and bangs into him. That's an offense, a charge. It's an offensive foul, obviously.

[A]

Duh.

[C]

It's just like this. It's just like the gather step rule where guys are now summing somehow. It's just. It's first of all bad logic. They can somehow take five steps. No, you can't under any circumstances take five steps. They do it all the time. No, you can't under any circumstances put your shoulder down and when a guy is established defensive position and charge into his chest and have it called against the other guy. Okay, fine, you can. Upon review, it's not. But what bothers me about it, Rich, is it is done simply to keep the league MVP in the game. The reigning MVP in the game. That's the only reason they do it. Under any other circumstance, in any era, under any rules, that's a foul. So if SGA has three fouls in the first quarter, tough shit.

[A]

Go sit.

[C]

That's my five minute max.

[A]

I knew you were going there. Yeah, once I. Once I realized you were still upset after three days later.

[C]

Very upset. Not cause it was the Knicks. Not cause it was the Knicks.

[A]

I think you were more upset that Shay was very fly walking in the tunnel.

[C]

You like that outfit?

[A]

I would play the fur, man, I listen.

[C]

The fur was hot to death. But that's the. But I mean that in two ways. I heard it was 50 degrees.

[A]

I wouldn't care if it was.

[C]

I want to say Alan Hahn reported it was 50 degrees in New York. It's got the wit, the arc.

[A]

When it's about the look, the weather don't matter, man.

[C]

That's only when I do it on this show, not when he does it. When I do it it's okay. But when he does it, it's ridiculous.

[A]

But my rebuttal to this is if that was in favor of your team, would you be as upset?

[C]

That's the thing. I Acknowledge. I giggle with glee like a schoolgirl. Right. If my team gets a little cheating call, I find it hilarious. And normally I would also find that hilarious. I'm reacting to the fact mainly Rich, the brazenness. The reason that it was called that way. If it was. If he already had a. Whatever. It's the middle of the game, whatever. But the fact that no doubt they want. I mean, and why? Because I don't think the refs have enough. I don't think the refs are considering that. It seems to me. Here's a conspiracy theory, Rich. If I was running a league and I did, and there was an issue with players sitting out and there was an issue with players sitting out, et cetera, et cetera, I might make it known that I want my star players to play in games as much as possible. Like, it just seems. I can't think of another explanation. Everyone who ever lived can see that and see it was a foul except the people officiating.

[A]

So let me ask. We've seen this several times. I've been on the other end of it, you know, not as a fan, but with a lot on the line. It happens, man. Refs miss calls. It happens. I don't like. Sometimes they go your way. Sometimes.

[C]

You ready to do some emails?

[A]

Let's do some. Yeah.

[C]

Josh asks is a question for you.

[A]

Where's Josh from? I don't know. They should start state.

[C]

All right.

[A]

Can you start stating where you're from?

[C]

Yeah, let's start finding out where. We're all over the country. All over the world.

[A]

All over the world. I want to know where our fans.

[C]

Josh asks questions for question for Rich. When you were discussing Jonathan Kaminga, you mentioned that you could tell within the first five minutes of watching a player whether they have star potential or they're more of a role player. By the way, I get this, Rich, because I could do the same. I could do the same thing in boxing. But here's the. Here's the next part of it where I think to myself, have I evaluated box well, here, I'll read it. Have there been times when you initially thought a player wouldn't become a star, but they eventually proved you wrong? On the flip side of them, players you were convinced would become stars, but things didn't end up working that way? I could tell you in boxing, that does happen to me. Usually I'm right. Sometimes I'm like, oh, that guy surprised me.

[A]

Yeah. Well, Josh, Max was discussing the young man. I was giving him perspective, as I always do, because he's off a lot of times, but that's okay. That's our relationship. He does that for me in boxing. It's all good. But. Yeah. Quite naturally, you know, I think. Yes. You look at players, I can tell if. If I think a player is going to become a really good player. When you say superstar, we have to really be. Be.

[C]

You know, there's one that jumps to mind in terms of superstar, Right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously you see the qualities within the guys, but we're talking about just talent. Yes. I think there's a lot goes into becoming that superstar, but. Yes, there's.

[C]

When you saw Jokic in the draft, he went in the middle of the second round and he's one of the best players ever, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But you. That was a big. I mean, that was Jokic becoming who he became. Became is like. That's just. I've never seen that before, you know.

[C]

Right.

[A]

In my life.

[C]

It's. No, it never happened.

[A]

No. I've never seen that before.

[C]

Anthony Mason and guys like that went in the second round, became good players. But. But, like, you go. You go in the second round, you're one of the best players we've ever seen.

[A]

But has there been a few times where you. Where you thought a guy with its makeup and its skill set and its talent level should probably have become a much better player than they became?

[C]

And what about that?

[A]

Yes, of course. Now, does that happen nine out of 10 times? No. Maybe two out of 10 times.

[C]

Can you think of a player who became much more. Or no, you don't want to talk down a player. I get it. But. So this all starts off with.

[A]

But I've also seen the other way. No, I've seen it the other way. See, we base a lot on where guys drive drafted, Right?

[C]

Sure.

[A]

So if Jokic was drafted at number one, you wouldn't have that conversation. Right.

[C]

So it's all because where they're drafted reflects what people thought at the time.

[A]

Yeah, but just I always say people are making basketball decisions, not robots. Right. So sometimes you get it wrong. Michael Jordan went three. Yep.

[C]

It's true. Although the famous. Who was it who called Bobby Knight out of Portland? Right. Who do we. Who do we draft? Oh, Jordan. Well, we need a center. Draft Jordan, Play him at center.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, look, KD went to right.

[C]

Right. Andrew writes, I don't see the argument for Jordan averaging 40 in today's league. People say Katie is the best scorer of all time. Regardless if you agree or not, hard say Jordan would play in the Same error and average 10 points more. Okay, I want to point something out, Andrew, about a logical fallacy or just the premise I want, and this is important for people making arguments and analyzing things. Think about the. What you're saying carefully. People say KD is the best scorer of all time. That doesn't make it true. It's just an assertion. And even if you're the most efficient scorer ever, that doesn't necessarily make you the most prolific scorer ever. What I would say is there are plenty of players nowadays who average over 30 points a game. They're not KD, but they average over 30. Like Luka, for example. James Harden at 35 points a game. If you think that either one of those guys are comparable to Michael Jordan as scorers, especially if he were taking 8 or 10 or 12 threes a game. So the question is not, can I find a player who's considered really good who doesn't do that? The question is, are there examples of players who come close to it? The answer is yes. Russell Westbrook averaged a triple double over three seasons with a ton of points. MJ was 32, 8 and 8. Not shooting the 3. But the more he shot the 3, the better he shot it.

[A]

Yeah, look, I think again, I was one who pushed back on that as well, but. But it's not just because of. It's definitely not because I didn't think he could score more points in today's league. That's not what it is. But when you look at the other side of the ball, when you look at the makeup of these guys, there's a way more versatile 6, 7, 6, 8, 8, 6, 9, 6, 10 guys in today's game.

[C]

But let me ask you something about that.

[A]

Will they be willing to. Will they be willing to have the mentality of, I come to destroy you night in and night out, with the money that guys are making, with the trinkets that they now have, with all the resources that you now have. I just saw the young man, Christian Braun, say about nil, if I would have got a million dollars at Kansas, I wouldn't be in the NBA.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So there is a lot of layers here to.

[C]

But I don't think it's that complicated, Rich, there. The question is, are there guys who exist who average in the mid-30s with a lot of rebounds and assists? The answer is yes, they exist today.

[A]

I think they did it different, though. You named Luca and you named James Harden. Right. But they did it with a handle. They did it.

[C]

Jordan had a handle. Yes, he did. He didn't come in the league with a great handle. By the end, he had a great handle.

[A]

MJ did not focus on handling the

[C]

ball because he didn't need to dribble

[A]

it a lot to get his shot three times. He was precise with his quick first step. He had one of the most beautiful jump shots you can have to go along with athleticism.

[C]

And when he was young, he was the most athletic guy.

[A]

But here's the thing. What's very underrated.

[C]

And by the way, wait real quick. Back then, his own center was clogging the lane and the other guy's center could sit and wait for him.

[A]

I'm not arguing against. I'm just.

[C]

I might have underdid it when I said 40.

[A]

I'm giving now. Here you go.

[C]

It might have been mid-40s.

[A]

Always have to take something and then just, just, just jump off.

[C]

No, but what I'm saying is when you hear old timers say will would have done this, this guy would have done that, I'm not talking crazy. This is not like me talking wild about something. I'm saying, look, I'm being precise. He averaged. There were seasons where he averaged 35 and better. Two seasons were averaged 35 and better. Multiple seasons in the 30s. One season when he played point guard. 32, 8 and 8. When you adjust for era and the fact that the more he shot the three, the better he shot it. I find it difficult. Okay, when I said average a triple double, maybe it's. Maybe it's because rebounds are down. Maybe it's eight rebounds and nine assists. Whatever. Maybe. But it's. But it's 40 points with the other stuff bringing it close to a triple double.

[A]

I just think it's much harder in terms of the makeup of today's player and also the schemes. Just a lot of different things. But again, that's for another day because we can sit here forever. But what I will say is there's a lot more to it than just scoring the ball in today's game. For you to get to 40 points a night because you know, you have other players on the team.

[C]

So does Harden, so does Luka.

[A]

Yeah, but it's different.

[C]

They're in the mid-30s.

[A]

The other thing I was going to say is having athleticism and a jump shot is like a surf and turf. Yeah. Because most times, like you don't. You don't have. It's either or. Either steak or the lobster.

[C]

But then there's also killer mentality where. Well, that's unlike Kobe. And this is what Separates MJ from Kobe. MJ was not trying to show you the bag every time. He was the most efficient, precise. Let me do the least to get the most.

[A]

This is what we talk about when we talk about Shea. Simplicity. The game of basketball was not made to have all of this. Clogging of the moves. No, it was made to. It's like playing chess. You're just trying to gain an advantage, and once you gain an advantage, you exploit it. So if I get my shoulder past you, if I can create space, if my strength is getting to my jump shot, I just need a little bit of space. If you talk to the best, like Ray Allen. Right. Ray Allen don't need to do any. He don't even need to have his. All he need is his shoulders square to the basket.

[C]

It's a wrap.

[A]

That is it. His legs could be one in Milwaukee and one in Seattle. He just needs his shoulder square. Square and be able to follow through. At nine times out of 10, the ball is going in the hole. He told me.

[C]

Or like 44.2 times out of 10 if it's from 3 or whatever it was. Exactly. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. So that's all I'm saying.

[C]

All right. Ryan says hi. Max and Rich. I spent my first years driving home from high school listening to Max and Marcellus on the radio. What? So here in la, what I remember most are the food conversations. Question for you both. What's the most underrated Food City in the country? Underrated Food City.

[A]

Now people going to get mad at me because they going to think I'm a homer. But it's la.

[C]

I agree.

[A]

Because I'll tell you why it's la.

[C]

I agree with this.

[A]

You don't. I never heard people say I'm coming to LA for food. That's not what they come to.

[C]

LA might be. LA might be the best Food City City in the. Might be. Listen, I'm sure New York doesn't agree. I'm sure New Yorking in the background. Yeah.

[A]

Dean thinks he's like Chef Boyardeen. He's like Chef Boy Ardine. He thinks. But. But here's what I'll say. He's like if yelp had a VVIP. He's in it.

[C]

Got it.

[A]

Yeah. 100. They sent him all type of stuff. Yup. Hat.

[C]

Why don't you. I never heard about this.

[A]

Yeah. But what I'll tell you is I think it's because of the mixture of cultures.

[C]

No doubt.

[A]

And it's such a big city. And by the way, I don't think it's the high, high end restaurant, Michelin Star. That's not what I'm talking about. There's some hole in the wall, Mexican,

[C]

Greek food truck, sushi spot, no doubt that you can get that people don't even know about.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. By the way. Cause New York has the reputation. Yes, right. There's some.

[A]

New York has great restaurants.

[C]

There's no question by reputation. People don't know about LA's food scene, but you're right on. Whatever, Whatever. Your, whatever your wallet. Right. Like whatever level you want to spend that. Whatever kind. Now the Italian food and the Chinese food, you'll find good stuff, but it's not going to be as good as in New York. But the Mexican food, the Japanese food, there's like, and, and, and you find every kind of cuisine.

[A]

I gotta find me an auntie here in la. I'm gonna go in my auntie, Auntie's kitchen and get the real throw down. Yeah, that's what I want. I gotta find.

[C]

There's a guy, there's someone who opened a restaurant. I forgot what the name of the restaurant is. I want to say it is in New York where he gets people's grandmothers to come in.

[A]

That's what I want.

[C]

A granddad. And on a different night, you go in and you get a certain grandmother's menu.

[A]

Yeah, man, I want that smoked turkey. I want the smoked turkey in those greens. I want those yams.

[C]

I want the knisher.

[A]

And I'm not a real. By the way, I'm not a. I'm not a soul food guy.

[C]

So I'm just, I'm an every kind of food guy.

[A]

No, I'm not a soul. I listen, people used to talk about, we eat soul food on Sunday. We ate soul food every day. Okay, I don't want no more soul food. But what I'm saying is.

[C]

You soul fooded out.

[A]

I'm soul fooded out. My grandmother used to make me wash those greens. You have to drain them.

[C]

It's a lot of work chilling.

[A]

Oh, you got to go to the house.

[C]

Which.

[A]

Yeah, it's pts. What did you call it?

[C]

Ptsd.

[A]

Ptsd, yes. But I do like veg, so I like a yam. I like my greens. But then I like to mix it with something different, but just to be able to. That's why I miss my mother so much. I can call my mom. I'm coming in from anywhere, Ma. I got a taste for chili. You want turkey chili, boy? You want. Yeah, turkey chili, Ma. Or I want Spaghetti or some fish. Just.

[C]

It's just that I miss my grandma. My barber. Yiddish for granted.

[A]

I know. My sister gonna call me.

[C]

Used to make knisha cluck. Rich knishes. Small knishes. Right. The little ones, though, you know, Ever have a knish at like a hot dog stand or something? Like a big potato thing with the. With the dough around it, you know? What, knishes?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, but they have the. She made little ones just for Max. Yeah, just for me. Little with peppery potato in it. Oh, my God, it's the best thing ever.

[A]

Did you put it in your pocket with like, no paper towel?

[C]

No, they could. You wouldn't work in a pocket, but yeah.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Oh, no, no.

[A]

But no. Like, I need to find an aunt or grandpa. Somebody can. Can I get an LA family to adopt me?

[C]

Yeah. And to feed you home cooked food.

[A]

Yeah, I want just once a week or bi weekly I can go to. But clean though, because I like a clean diet.

[C]

Should we just bite that guy's idea and open a restaurant where it's like grandmothers cooking. But we won't do grandmothers, we'll do aunties.

[A]

If you were gonna do that, I would suggest you don't say it on Spotify. Netflix.

[C]

Cut that part out.

[A]

This guy. You know what, we have to end the show on that.

[C]

No, but it doesn't matter because if you have a platform, then the appeal of it is the fact that these dudes are doing it.

[A]

And shout out to my guy, walter Johnson, tendonism. You know, I've been following that. He can't. Did I tell you about tendonism before?

[C]

No. Walter Johnson was the all time strikeout leader.

[A]

No, but this guy, this guy had. He went viral for tenderness. And he would do the thing, and he was just showing the tenderness of the rib, whatever the case. And it went viral and it created this phenomenon and some things happened, but he got support. We're supporting him. But I. Yeah.

[C]

By the way, I just wanted to show him some more. Explain that because I'm sitting here next to you. I don't know what your. What words. I know each word you're saying, but I don't know what it means altogether.

[A]

So when you, like my grandmother could literally get up, go to work. Ruth Martin, she would go to work and she would tell you before you went to school, do not touch that stove.

[C]

Right.

[A]

She had a short rib in there.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And it's just at the right temperature and it's simmering.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

When she gets off of work at 4:30 she come home, change into her stove.

[C]

Been doing that all day.

[A]

Oprah's on. She get a drink of water. She'd be doing that all day. Now she has the, you know, the potatoes around or whatever. And when she take it out, that it is perfect. But it's. They call it tender. It's tender. So now the. This is going to be a pause, but we're talking about food here.

[C]

I got it.

[A]

So the meat just falls.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Right. And

[C]

we're like, you know, every dude is really a 10 year old chef. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm trying to. I'm trying to put Max up on the game.

[C]

I'm listening.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So here for it.

[A]

So that's what they call.

[C]

Not here for that, but yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's what they call the food being tender, of course. Okay. And seasoned to perfection, et cetera. This guy then created the term tender nism.

[C]

Tender nism, yes.

[A]

And so what he would show you is he would show you how tender the food was, and it would just fall and he would just throw it down. He would get up and he would have this reaction. He's like, that's tenderness.

[C]

Can I tell you what a.

[A]

And it just went every. What's that, boy?

[C]

I am at heart, right. There's a fat guy and like a real obese guy inside me trying to get out.

[A]

We should bring him on the show.

[C]

There's a dude on who like pops up on reels. British guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

With three dogs. Right. And he feeds them like raw food, like with the bones in them and everything, which is safe if their bones aren't cooked. And I don't know his name, but. But I. I can watch these dogs eat. Eat like raw chicken and stuff. It makes me hungry.

[A]

By the way, having a pet.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is an Expensive. Expensive.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially when you get into those type of things.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know, certain organic this.

[C]

And you know, people go overboard with that nowadays. But I can't stop watching these reels.

[A]

Blah, blah, blah. So. So no. So I just wanted to show him some love, but that's it. Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[A]

All good.

[C]

All right. So what you got for the weekend?

[A]

Well.

[C]

Oh, wait, I know what you got for the weekend.

[A]

You don't know what I have for the weekend.

[C]

I do know what you have for the weekend.

[A]

What is it?

[C]

You going to Vegas?

[A]

No, I'm not.

[C]

Oh. Plans got changed.

[A]

I'm playing golf. I am playing golf.

[C]

You got a problem.

[A]

Duh.

[C]

Yeah, you got a problem. You're a straight addict.

[A]

Let me tell you why I like the challenge to mine. And one thing about a driver that slices every time you hit the ball. It's pretty challenging.

[C]

I see.

[A]

But that's okay.

[C]

It's an addictive sport. Listen, people get addicted to golf, no question.

[A]

I'm growing my golf Rolodex.

[C]

I'm ready to get you tickets to the fight on Sunday. You know, cruiserweight championship of the world, Zufa's first Zufa boxing's first championship, Jai opetaia, who's the cruiserweight champ recognized, is fighting for the first ever Zufa belt, Zufa four, Sunday night on Paramount.

[A]

I'm still waiting on you to get me in the business of Zufa, but the only person I'm going to be fighting is that six Iron Titleist.

[C]

All right, I'll tell them. No tickets for Rich.

[A]

Yeah, that's okay.

[C]

Thought we were going. I thought we were going out on Saturday night. The whole thing.

[A]

Oh, no. I'll be watching YouTube channels in golf and basketball.

[C]

Well, have fun.

[A]

Yeah, I will. Looking forward to it.

[C]

See you on Monday.

[A]

See you on Monday.