The Pats and Seahawks Are Super Bowl Bound, Boxing and UFC Weekend, Plus Media Mayhem

Summary

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Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Episode: The Pats and Seahawks Are Super Bowl Bound, Boxing and UFC Weekend, Plus Media Mayhem

Date: January 26, 2026
Host: The Ringer

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode of "Game Over," Max Kellerman and Rich Paul deliver thoughtful analysis and sharp commentary on the latest sports headlines. They tackle the surprising Super Bowl berth of the Patriots and Seahawks, dissect pivotal NFL playoff moments, reflect on Derrick Rose’s legacy, deep-dive into the evolving nature of sports media, and share firsthand experiences from the Zuffa Boxing and UFC weekend in Vegas. The discussion blends big-picture industry insights with storytelling and some candid, humorous rapport.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Derrick Rose’s Jersey Retirement & Legacy (03:01–07:05)

• Derrick Rose as an Authentic Chicago Icon:
  • Rich Paul praises Rose as "the rose that grew in the concrete in the entire city of Chicago.” (03:11)
  • The conversation reflects on Rose’s impact beyond basketball, noting his perseverance through adversity.
• What Could Have Been:
  • Max: “That’s the twitchiest, fastest basketball player I’ve ever seen...like putting a Mack truck engine in a Ferrari frame.” (04:12)
  • Both reflect on Rose’s early MVP ascent and his resilience reinventing himself after injuries.
• Personal Touch:
  • Rich shares: “I pay for a lot of funerals, bro. Yeah, a lot. And these are, you know, these are kids in a lot of ways.” (05:46)
  • Memorable moment: The co-hosts tie Rose’s journey to broader social realities faced by young athletes from tough backgrounds.

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NFL Playoffs & Super Bowl Analysis

Max’s "Super Bowl was Last Night" Take (07:36–09:00)

• Max boldly tweeted congrats to the Seahawks for "winning Super Bowl 60" after their victory over the Rams, suggesting that was the actual championship matchup (07:32).
• Rich Paul objects: “You cannot look past a football game or any game for that matter. I don’t like that.” (07:48)
• Fun banter about tempting fate in sports, with Rich referencing past upsets like Tyson-Douglas (16:26).

Seahawks vs. Rams: The Real Championship? (08:49–15:15)

• Max calls the Rams-Seahawks NFC Championship the true Super Bowl due to both teams' consistent excellence.
• The conversation pivots to Sam Darnold’s redemption arc (09:29):
  • Rich: “Sam Darnold has made his way into the top 10 quarterbacks...He’s persevered.”
  • Max: “You have to root for the guy...He’s been boom or bust all year.”
• Key Play Highlight (10:36–13:14):
  • Max dissects a pivotal 3rd & 10 where Darnold throws the ball away: “Game manager is a dirty word, but to a lot of people...that was the key moment of the game.” (11:25)
  • The hosts discuss the value of “boring” winning plays and game management, comparing it across football and basketball.

Game Management & Quarterback Comparisons (13:14–14:59)

• Rich and Max weigh in on how elite QBs like Brady and Montana won by avoiding mistakes—"They weren't going to do the stupid thing. They were going to make fewer mistakes than the other guy." (11:46)
• Rich: “What I’m saying is, when ... most people say, ‘oh, he’s a game manager’ they say it with a very negative connotation...But if you are a coach, you want someone in that position to manage the game properly.” (13:09)

AFC Playoffs & Patriots’ Drake May (15:22–20:45)

• Max critiques Sean Payton’s fourth-down decision-making but praises Patriots QB Drake May:
  • “Throughout these playoffs, when it matters most, [May] is playing clutch football and smart...clutch with a K football...and he’s making the smart play too.” (19:08)
  • Rich compares consistent execution in sports to fundamental basketball: "That stuff just wears you down...it really messes with your mindset." (20:45)
• They draw parallels between Tom Brady, Joe Montana, and even Floyd Mayweather: "The reason Floyd always won ... he made fewer mistakes than the other guy." (21:52, Max)

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Sports Media Mayhem (24:02–36:15)

Anatomy of Sports Media (24:02–29:36)

• Types of Media Personalities:
  • Analysts: played & not played, take-artists (e.g., Skip, Stephen A.), and insiders (e.g., Woj, Shams, Shefty).
  • Rich: “Those people ... care most about their credibility more than anything.” (24:45)
  • Max: “There’s the kind of take artist ... and then the athlete ... take informed by experience ... And then you have the insider who’s going to be accurate.” (25:02–26:14)
• Media Aggregation & Misinformation:
  • Rich explains the ‘telephone’ effect: “By the time it gets aggregated, it’s a totally different story.” (28:36)
  • Both advocate for league-verified platforms/individuals to solve the misinformation crisis.
  • Max: “What Elon was doing was completely taking away the idea of verification ... and just turned it into a status symbol.” (30:11)
• Proposal for League-Verified Reporters:
  • Rich: “NBA, NFL, MLB ... should carve out verifying certain platforms, so the viewer or the reader ... knows ... it’s credible.” (29:20)
  • Max: “It gives the league better control of the media, which they like, even if the consumer might not love that part. But ... you’re getting responsible journalism.” (31:33)

Purpose-Driven Media (36:15–37:26)

• Rich: “I’m doing this show because I felt like there was a white space ... to really give insight and education on things that happen in my environment.”
• Max appreciates Rich’s credibility as a source: “I never got burnt. What you told me was always true.” (34:15)
• Both agree on prioritizing elevated, educational content—while keeping the door open to engaging guests and viral moments.

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Zuffa Boxing & UFC Weekend (37:27–45:16)

• Inside Zuffa Boxing’s Launch:
  • Max attended “Zuffa Boxing One” at the Meta Apex in Vegas:
    • “First fight of the night was one of the best prelim fights I’ve ever seen ... adjustments and high speed chess and action.” (38:34)
    • Officiating praised as above board and fair—contrasted with boxing status quo.
  • The vision: “This is where Zuffa Boxing is heading. It’s heading toward selling out the T-Mobile ... being perceived as the major leagues of boxing.” (42:04)
• Boxing’s Big Problem, UFC’s Big Appeal:
  • Rich: “This is the stagnation within the boxing business ... [With Zuffa Boxing] we’re going to address all those things.” (42:27)
  • Max highlights upsets in both UFC and Zuffa Boxing as the core appeal: “The underdog could win and the underdog win. That’s the biggest thing in sports...” (44:29)
• Humorous Moment:
  • Rich, on luxury arena food: “I just want to be able to get that Bronzino from Milos Cage side ... I have to eat light and healthy.” (45:16)

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Other Noteworthy Topics

Dabo Swinney’s NIL “Bar” (46:48–48:05)

• Max and Rich briefly discuss Dabo Swinney’s viral comment:
  • “Taking another offer ... while already on campus ... is like having an affair on your honeymoon.” (47:23)
  • Rich previews a coming deep dive on the state of agent business and NIL dynamics.

NBA All-Star Game Voting (48:05–55:35)

• Player Voting Issues:
  • “Bronny got votes.” (48:16)
  • Rich warns: “Every chance you get in our business to show ... you are actually engaged and you care ... the more equity you can actually gain.” (48:41)
• Wembanyama’s Leadership:
  • Max celebrates Wemby’s commitment: “If the number one signature guy in your sport ... is already playing ... this ought to shame the rest of the league.” (52:40)
  • Rich: “He does it at 7’4” ... I don’t think there’s some people ... who’d say it because it’s a good soundbite. He really believes that.” (53:22)
• Call for Higher Standards:
  • Max: “If this dude fixes the All-Star game, there’s no excuse. The NBA All-Star game should be the best All-Star game. And it’s not.” (55:35)
  • Rich uses Jaylen Brown as another example: “He wants to win. He cares. And we need more of that.” (54:34)

Basketball Position Talk (57:01–59:07)

• Max and Rich discuss the importance of high-IQ play from centers in the NBA, referencing Draymond Green, Giannis, Jokic, Embiid, and others.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 03:11 | “He is the rose that grew in the concrete in the entire city of Chicago.” | Rich Paul | | 04:12 | “That’s the twitchiest, fastest basketball player I’ve ever seen...like putting a Mack truck engine in a Ferrari frame.” | Max Kellerman | | 05:46 | “...when you come from that, like I did, it’s not even about the basketball anymore ... just making it to 16 is like being 50.” | Rich Paul | | 09:29 | “Sam Darnold has made his way into the top 10 quarterbacks...He’s persevered.” | Rich Paul | | 11:25 | “Game manager is a dirty word, but to a lot of people...that was the key moment of the game.” | Max Kellerman | | 21:52 | “The reason Floyd always won is very simple. If you want to boil it down to one thing, is he made fewer mistakes than the other guy.” | Max Kellerman | | 25:34 | “It’s just my thoughts, man. It’s, you know, Jay Z. Just my thoughts.” | Max Kellerman | | 28:36 | “By the time it gets aggregated, it’s a totally different story.” | Rich Paul | | 31:33 | “It gives the league better control of the media, which they like, even if the consumer might not love that part. But ... you’re getting responsible journalism.” | Max Kellerman | | 42:04 | “This is where Zuffa Boxing is heading. It’s heading toward selling out the T-Mobile ... being perceived as the major leagues of boxing.” | Max Kellerman | | 48:41 | “Every chance you get in our business to show ... you are actually engaged and you care ... the more equity you can actually gain.” | Rich Paul | | 52:40 | “If the number one signature guy in your sport ... is already playing ... this ought to shame the rest of the league.” | Max Kellerman | | 54:34 | “He wants to win. He cares. And we need more of that.” | Rich Paul |

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Timestamps—Important Segments

• 03:01–07:05: Derrick Rose retirement & legacy
• 07:36–09:00: Max’s bold Seahawks "championship" take & Rich’s pushback
• 10:36–13:14: Sam Darnold, ‘game manager’ value (key play breakdown)
• 19:08–21:51: Patriots’ Drake May, game management, and the ‘boring wins’ philosophy
• 24:02–29:36: Dissecting the modern sports media landscape
• 30:11–31:33: Twitter, verification, and media credibility
• 37:27–45:16: Zuffa Boxing and UFC weekend—airing new approaches in fight sports
• 48:05–55:35: NBA All-Star game voting, Wemby’s leadership, player responsibility
• 57:01–59:07: Modern NBA center IQ talk

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, candid, and packed with real-world anecdotes.
• Balances professional insight with accessible and often humorous banter.
• Each co-host brings distinct perspectives: Max as the media vet/analyst, Rich as the behind-the-scenes power player.
• Well-attributed, energetic, respectful of differing views.

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Summary

This episode of "Game Over" is a tour de force through the weekend’s biggest sports stories—anchored by the unlikely Super Bowl matchup, deep playoff insights, meaningful discussions on authenticity and adversity, the mechanics (and mayhem) of sports media, and the evolving future of combat sports. Rich Paul and Max Kellerman weave through big ideas and small details with intelligence, humility, and a sharp wit—making it both an insightful and entertaining listen for any sports fan.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Rich Paul]

Experian. All right, Max, one sec. I gotta. Can't put a watch on without the time being right.

[Max Kellerman]

Of course. Got it. Winding the watch. I'm surprised you don't have.

[Rich Paul]

I do, but I'm saying you have a watch winder. Yeah, but the thing is, like, can't get in the habit of wearing a watch just to wear the watches to tell time. Like, because we had the smartphones. I guarantee if you check the watch of most people, the time is wrong.

[Max Kellerman]

Look, don't. You know what I mean by the thing that just kind of moves it around a little bit?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I have it.

[Max Kellerman]

The watch windows.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I have it. I have it.

[Max Kellerman]

But still, I would figure you have a whole room full of watches with the watch.

[Rich Paul]

I don't have that. But I'm just saying, like, I think it's important to get in the habit of that.

[Max Kellerman]

But anyway, remember seeing that 60 Minutes? We watched it together when you were on 60 Minutes.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And didn't they cover LeBron and them giving you that gift? The watch?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

What kind of watch was that?

[Rich Paul]

Oh, that's called the Papa Smurf. Well, the nickname is the Papa Smurf, but it's just a blue ceramic ap. Really nice. Yeah, really nice. Really nice gift.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. It was from my brother. Just make you feel good.

[Rich Paul]

Made me feel great, you know? Made me feel great. They still haven't told me what we were celebrating, but I guess they was just celebrating me in that regard, so. It's good to have that. But, man, east coast is cold.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what, though? That's a lot of snow. You know how happy the kids in New York are right now for not going to school? What, when there was a snowstorm? And not only that, but when they plow the streets, the sidewalks get. If you get a foot of snow, by the time they're done pushing everything to the side, that's five feet of snow on the side. You know what I mean?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Kids are playing in the snow right now?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But for people that's traveling, look, it's shut down. I felt the cold here. That's why I'm like, it's very cold. And I'm getting calls from back home.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, it's how they get a lot of snow in Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

Zero degrees.

[Max Kellerman]

Did they get a lot of snow in Cleveland, though?

[Rich Paul]

They got snow, but for. Yes, they got a lot of snow. But, you know, it's hard to snow when it's also that cold, too. So the snow came prior, I think.

[Max Kellerman]

Duh.

[Rich Paul]

And then it got cold, which is even worse, because then that turns to ice. And so kids are out of school for, like, two, three days.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, God, the happiest kids in the world. There was nothing better than a snow day.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what? It didn't stop the snow.

[Max Kellerman]

Huh?

[Rich Paul]

The rose growing in the concrete. Derrick Rose's jersey was retired. Did you see that?

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

I thought that was great, man. I thought that was great. Let me tell you something. Derrick Rose, first of all, he has the perfect last name. He does, because he is the rose that grew in the concrete in the entire city of Chicago. There's one rose, and his name is Derek. And just how that. I mean, I know how. I mean, I was. I saw Derrick Rose when he was in high school as a kid.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it was legendary.

[Rich Paul]

We used to go watch him play his mom. And it's just something special about the person in Derrick Rose. I understand the basketball player, but his story and what he means to basketball, not just to the city of Chicago, but to the city of Chicago as well. I just think it's hard to duplicate that authenticity. You know, when you talk about just that cloth man, I don't think of.

[Max Kellerman]

Derrick Roses, of what could have been. Like, I don't. His. That's the twitchiest, fastest basketball player I've ever seen. And people talk about Westbrook. Love Westbrook. And there were guys back in the day that had that, you know, electric stuff. But Derrick Rose. And I think of him like. I think I also think of Zion Williamson like this, believe it or not, which is. There are some people whose engines are so powerful that the frame can't. It's gonna break because the engine is too powerful. He was like putting a Mack truck engine in a Ferrari frame. It was like he was so fast. Stop and start down the court. That, of course, something. Some connecting something is gonna break. It's too much.

[Rich Paul]

But see, I think I understand why you look at it like that. And you're right.

[Max Kellerman]

Could you imagine if he stayed healthy.

[Rich Paul]

No. But I don't look at it strictly from a sports perspective because I don't want to diminish the accomplishment at all in no capacity, because what he accomplished, the rising above his environment, not succumbing to his environment, the protection that he had to have in terms of. Not like there was fearful of anything. I'm saying, like everywhere he turned, people are making sure and wanting him to do the right things and what's best for him. You know, the sacrifices that his mom made, the sacrifices that his dad.

[Max Kellerman]

Poop dream type stuff. Yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Because the thing about that is when you come from that, like I did, it's not even about the basketball anymore, you know, because we grew up in an environment where, you know, just making it to 16 is like being 50, you know? You know, like. And it's just. I pay for a lot of funerals, bro. Yeah, a lot. And these are, you know, these are kids in a lot of ways. And so I don't want to ever want to diminish that, but I understand.

[Max Kellerman]

When you get to be as good as that. When he won the MVP, he was like 12 years old, right? Like, he wins the NBA at MVP in his early, early twenties, and all of a sudden the Bulls post Michael Jordan are good again and they have a chance and they have a future. Then the injury happens. But then actually, if you look at how he reinvented himself coming back, he became a valuable NBA player after the injuries, he started to shoot it better. He was good. Like, his teammates loved him.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. No one ever not loved Derrick Rose.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

But just that humility that he comes with. And it's great to see him now. I mean, I watched it. I watched. It was great. I think that was pretty cool to see that number one. That will be pretty cool for me to see that number one in your life.

[Max Kellerman]

You ready to talk some football?

[Rich Paul]

Yes. But here's what I want to tell you. The show today, we rolling, right?

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Paul]

You have two weeks, two and a half weeks to make your super bowl pick. Start thinking about it now because it takes you so long. You got Seahawks.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

That was great. See what I did to you right there? I forced you.

[Max Kellerman]

Look up my Twitter from last night.

[Rich Paul]

You tweeted last night?

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

I congratulated the Seahawks on winning Super Bowl 60 because the super bowl was played last night between the Rams and the Seahawks.

[Rich Paul]

I don't like that.

[Max Kellerman]

Came over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

I don't like that.

[Max Kellerman]

Max, you want to ask him to subscribe or not?

[Rich Paul]

Please continue to subscribe. Yes, but I don't like that. Max. You cannot. You cannot look past a football game or any game for that matter. I don't like that.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's start the show. Game over is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com gameover to get started. 21 and over in present in select states or 18 and over in present in D.C. kentucky, Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut. It's not even rich that I'm saying that. Oh, the Seahawks definitely be the Patriots. It's before the championship games.

[Rich Paul]

You thought that was the best team.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought the two best teams are in the nfc. In fact, the two best teams all year have played nothing but classic games. That was the third one. Rams and Seahawks. Right. One of them started incredible, the Rams, and trended down a little, and the other trended up all season.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Look, no one expected the Patriots to be there. Right?

[Max Kellerman]

Not the beginning.

[Rich Paul]

I think people would have said Mahomes would be there, Allen would be there, Jackson would be there. No one thought that the Patriots would.

[Max Kellerman]

I think Jackson and Allen are never there. Same draft class as Sam Darnold. He's in the Super Bowl. Not Baker Mayfield, not Josh Allen, not Lamar Jackson.

[Rich Paul]

But you know what? You got to tip your hat to Sam Darnold because I think Sam Darnold has made his way into the top 10 quarterbacks, maybe even top eight, the way he's playing. But I'm going to say top 10. I'm going to say top 10. I know it's debatable. But he's persevered.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

He's been on several different teams.

[Max Kellerman]

This is fifth team.

[Rich Paul]

Right. And he's persevered. And he's done it in a manner in which you just have to root for the guy.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to root for the guy. What I saw last night. Here's what's crazy. If you take all the incredible moments from last night, there were a lot of great moments. You know, you have Puka's catch at the end of the game and was he out of bounds or not? No, there was Cups catch and did the. The ground hit, you know, force the fumble or debatable calls? Yeah, there were. And there were interesting plays and there were big plays. And Witherspoon came through at the end of the game when devonte had run some crisp routes and beaten them a couple times and all this kind of stuff, right? The number and Darnold, who's been boom or bust all year, like, Stafford's just been great all year. Darnold. It's like, wow, great game. Damn, what happened? Wow, great game. Damn, what happened?

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

The most significant play in that game to me was in the fourth quarter. It was early in the fourth quarter and it was third and 10. And I want to say they were on the Rams 44, right? They're in enemy territory. You're past midfield, and Donald threw the ball away. And I thought, yep, that's right. Instead of trying to make something happen where I'm thinking, I'm watching the game, I'm like, here's where it happens, right? Darnold will try to do too much, make a mistake. He'll give Stafford chances, and he just. Instead of turning it over, okay, so now you're gonna punt. And I actually think that was the key moment of the game because it showed. You know, game manager is a dirty word, but to a lot of people.

[Rich Paul]

You use that word a lot. I told you that. It's disrespectful.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it's an important component of quarterbacking. Like, Darnold can do all the athletic things you want him to do. The question is, can he manage the game? Who are the two greatest quarterbacks of all time? Tom Brady. Who would you say is the other one? Because I got a definite pick for that.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, it's between Tom Brady and probably Joe Montana.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, Joe Montana. And the thing about Brady and Montana, not only were they going to make the most important plays when you needed it most, they weren't going to do the stupid thing. They weren't going to try to play the hero and then make a mistake. They were going to make fewer mistakes than the other guy.

[Rich Paul]

That's interesting. Where do you have Elway in that?

[Max Kellerman]

Not on that level. Like, Elway is great. Elway is like, you know, he's in a tier with Favre and.

[Rich Paul]

Well, he was on that level when he beat my Browns, so I don't know what I mean.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, he had once they gave him pd, you know.

[Rich Paul]

No, this is way before that. I'm talking 87, 88.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm talking about he was always a great quarterback, but when he became a Super bowl winner is when they gave him a running game. But Elway is incredible. He could carry a team, of course. But is he as good as Montana or as great as Montana or Brady? No. Elway was more of a. More of a hero ball guy than those guys were. He was athletically more gifted than them, too. But my only point bringing up Radio Montana is it is not an insult to say that game management is part of the greatest quarterbacks ever. And what Sam Darnold showed me, I think I was like, maybe. I don't remember how much time was left. It was early in the fourth quarter, third and ten. Throw it away. Don't worry about this. And live to play another, you know, another set of down.

[Rich Paul]

That's smart football. But what I'm saying is, when you say. When most people say, oh, he's a game manager, they say it with a.

[Max Kellerman]

Very negative connotation because it indicates he's not doing enough to actually put them over the top.

[Rich Paul]

But if you are a coach, you want someone in that position to manage the game properly because it's time and scores. You gotta value possessions. And it's the same thing in basketball. The issue we have in basketball today is there's very few game managers. People play the first. First the fourth quarter like they play the first quarter. And that is. Leads to very, like, negative results as it pertains to a game. And they play a game seven like they play a game eight of a series, like they play a game seven of a season.

[Max Kellerman]

They can do all the spectacular things, but now you gotta do the boring things.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And the boring things are, boys, is what wins. It's what wins. Yes, it's what I'm just telling you, that was the key play of the game.

[Rich Paul]

But I also. Go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I was just saying he's, you know, going in my analysis of the game was that logic says Seattle should win. They have the better secondary, they have the better special teams, and that's actually what won the game in the end. And then the only question would be, could McVay and Stafford overcome that? But if Darnold is going to play well, when Darnold plays well, the Seahawks all year have been the best team in the league and they won.

[Rich Paul]

I think McVay and Stafford are probably the best one, two punch in the NFL. Ooh.

[Max Kellerman]

Who's better if Mahomes and Reed? If Mahomes is healthy, I'll take Mahomes and Reed.

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Oof. You Might be right. It's between them and Mahomes and Reed.

[Rich Paul]

It's pretty good. It's pretty good.

[Max Kellerman]

Yep.

[Rich Paul]

But yesterday it's McVay. And not to discredit any of the other players, I'm saying it's McVay and Stafford, obviously, but then every side of the ball, both sides of the ball in Seattle play well.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Every time the Rams had. The Seahawks had an answer. The defense came up with big stops, big plays. And so I agree with. Most people are saying that was probably what the super bowl should have looked like. But I also disagree because they're in the NFC and no, we have another game to play. So I disagree with that. And the AFC game was really good.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's talk. I love those kind of games. You know what? It turns out I love element games. As long as I don't like to be in the elements. I like it 70 and sunny, like here in LA. But I like to watch other people on TV playing the elements.

[Rich Paul]

Obviously, I'm feeling the arctic blast. So, yeah, I had to come and represent.

[Max Kellerman]

I could see that the Patriots, Patriots fans are mad at me now because I tweeted that, which is good.

[Rich Paul]

I missed it.

[Max Kellerman]

I tweeted, Congratulations, Super Bowl 60 on the win.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that's.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm not saying they're going to beat the Patriots. I take that for granted. I'm saying this was the Super Bowl. This was the Super Bowl.

[Rich Paul]

That's a very risky tweet, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you remember?

[Rich Paul]

Because if for whatever reason, the Patriots actually come through and win.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Every once in a while, a Detroit.

[Rich Paul]

Team drawing egg on you, it's like an egg McMuffin on your face.

[Max Kellerman]

A Detroit team can upset the west, but usually Spurs, Lakers, winner of that series, was going to win the championship. Right. You know, Jack and Kobe, there's Duncan and, you know, Ginobili and these guys. And whoever wins, that's gonna win the title. You know, usually.

[Rich Paul]

Listen, we also thought Mike Tyson was gonna beat Buster Douglas. Yeah, yeah. Things happen in sports. That's all I'm saying. I just let the game be played out.

[Max Kellerman]

Two things about that game, okay. One, Sean Payton. I love Sean Payton. I have what Sean Payton has forgotten about football. Needless to say, I will never know. He knows, like, he is a football guy. What he's done to that organization's crazy. He got there, it was a mess, and you turn around and they're in the AFC Championship game. That's why I was really surprised when he decided to go for it on fourth down. Early in the game. And Rich, let me just tell you my philosophy on going for it on fourth down. I think you should almost always do it. And the reason for that is I think coaches for so long have been afraid of the negative outcome. What happens if we don't make it, that they, that they're willing to sacrifice 25% of their possessions. You're constantly punting on third on fourth down because you know it's three and long. Okay, well, now you only have 75% of the possessions. You should have had to get it done, try to use more of your. So I'm, I'm in favor of going for it. However, you're playing a team with a very hot defense throughout these playoffs. You're with your backup quarterback. And more than that, you know the weather report like you know what's coming. Remember, Romo kept talking about it throughout the game. He's like, folks, I know what it looks like at home. Trust me, it's much worse here. Right? And you know it was coming. Sean Payton off the Bill Parcells tree. You're not going to take those points in that situation. I was shocked he didn't kick the field goal. And in retrospect, it was a mistake.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, Hindsight is always 2020, I agree. But I imagine. Well, I don't imagine that's who Sean Payton has always been. Right. But there is something called a circumstantial game plan. So because of circumstances like you said, backup quarterback climate, probably, probably rather be a little bit more poised and press.

[Max Kellerman]

But they're in overtime right now.

[Rich Paul]

If he kicks the field goal, I understand, but you. Look, we can all be sitting here and saying, oh, that was a great play call. Because remember the week before, I had just said, you asked me, I said, I'm picking Sean Payton as the most important person in the game. And he called a hell of a game. So you have to live and die with those decisions.

[Max Kellerman]

So that's the first thing, the Peyton of it. I gotta say this about the Patriots, though. Drake May, when I just talked about game managing, right? We know that certain quarterbacks can make great plays. Drake May is capable of making great plays with his arm and with his legs. We already know that part. The splash plays, right? The stuff that you say the point guards can all do, but can they manage the game in the fourth quarter in the playoffs? Drake May, throughout these playoffs, when it matters most, is playing clutch football and smart. What kind of football? Clutch with a K football. I like that. And it's not just that he's picking up the first down with his legs. It's the kind of plays where. And this is throughout the playoffs. Maybe it's second and seven and he completes the pass and now it's third and two. You know, it's like a manageable third. He's making those kind of plays consistently throughout. I don't know if that exact scenario has even occurred, but like those kind of plays consistently throughout the fourth quarter of close games. He's. And then he's making the smart play, too. He's game managing. And the great. The best game managers. Yes. Doesn't mean they can't make splash plays. They make the throw with the game on the line, with the money on the line, they'll run for the first down and they won't make the mistake. I thought if you switch quarterbacks last night, the Broncos win. You know, even if, even if Drake May is not able to get those when they went for it on fourth down and still like, oh, Sean Payton should have kicked the field goal. I still think the Broncos win if they have Drake May because of his.

[Rich Paul]

Ability to just execute consistently and keep it simple.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. And also. And then also do what he has to do when he has to do it.

[Rich Paul]

You know, that kind of reminds me of. I think that stuff just wears you down. Like that consistency, making the right play not being too risky. When I was young, we were playing AAU ball and there was a team in Indiana called Bloomington, and when they came out, they had the red and white pants like the actual. Like the Hoosiers. But when you played this team, they would pass the ball like 10 times before, and you're just so worn down. And it really, psychologically, it really messes with your mindset because, you know, you're used to playing just a erratic style of basketball for the most part, especially when you young kids. But they were like executing pass cut, screen pass cut. And you would say that's a boring way because there's no one on one ISO anything. And they would win. Right.

[Max Kellerman]

Like Tom Brady or Joe Montana or by the way. And then when you have to make the shot, when Tom Brady had to make the throw, when Joe Montana had to make the throw, they did that. But Floyd Mayweather's a perfect example.

[Rich Paul]

I was thinking about Floyd.

[Max Kellerman]

The reason Floyd always won is very simple. If you want to boil it down to one thing, is he made fewer mistakes than the other guy.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

If he was a quarterback, he took less risks, though. He did. But if he's a quarterback, he's not Turning the ball over ever.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

His touchdown to interception ratio. I mean, sometimes you turn the ball over, but is lower than. Is higher than anyone else's. Right. And that's. I got. I hate it. I hate. I really hate the fact that the Patriots have a quarterback like this right now, because I hate the Patriots. But they have a guy with greatness in them. That's greatness on the field, you know.

[Rich Paul]

But that goes back to our point. Boring wins. Yeah. Because within the boring comes execution. Right. You know, everything that's fundamental you do, whether it's basketball. I remember to box out. I remember to, you know, cut properly and turn my head properly, you know, rotate properly. All those things that seem to be boring. The little details of the game actually leads to wins and big wins in this case because they're on their way to the Super Bowl. We were just talking about all the things that were being aggregated in the media and things that come up, like we do all the time when we're talking. And I was just like, it's such a. Such a mayhem in the media space because you have to decipher what is actually the truth versus trolling. Right. And when you think about the media, at least in my perspective, like in my seat, when I do have my representation hat on, I have a great relationship with media. Like, you have to build that relationship with media for several things. Whether they're reporting on an injury, whether they're reporting on a trade. Just things you hear around the league. There's different conversations you have with different media personalities or whatnot. But there's several layers of media. Right. You have analysts. So the analysts. Would you consider yourself an analyst when you were on.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Right. But you never played.

[Max Kellerman]

No.

[Rich Paul]

So you have the analysts that never played.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

But then you have the analysts that actually played and the analysts that never played. They have to go about their job a different way because you actually. Well, you probably didn't. But most try to find insightful details within stories and situations so that when they get up on the podium, they're speaking from the truth. For the analysts that actually play, their credibility is coming from the fact that most people think, oh, you should know, because they played right. Then you have the reporter, insider, journalist type of analyst. And those people, male or female, in most cases, they care most about their credibility more than anything. I'm telling you.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, these people need to get it right.

[Rich Paul]

Insiders, they. No, no, not need. They have to get it right. So they may.

[Max Kellerman]

That's what need is.

[Rich Paul]

But yes, well, need.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Yeah, well, so let me get to. So when you say analyst, you're like, there's the kind of take artist, right. Like there's. There's a Skip or someone like that who has a take about something, right?

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's a form that. I mean, there's several of them.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, of course. And I'm actually one of those guys. Like, I have a take of that and then. Or Bill Simmons.

[Rich Paul]

But see, your take, you don't care if your take is real or not real or you just, you just have a take on it.

[Max Kellerman]

It's my thoughts.

[Rich Paul]

It's your thoughts.

[Max Kellerman]

Just my thoughts.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

It's just my thoughts, man. It's, you know, Jay Z. Just my thoughts.

[Rich Paul]

You just throw stuff out there.

[Max Kellerman]

Blueprint.

[Rich Paul]

Right.

[Max Kellerman]

And then there's that former athlete who's also giving you just their thoughts, but their thoughts. You come to the table believing. So the people like me or Bill or Skip or whoever or Stephen A. Or whoever, you come to the table saying, I think that this person usually has a pretty good. An interesting take on things.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

And then the athlete, you're like, they have an interesting take that is informed by experience.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

So I find that valuable. Then you have the insider who's. Who's like, they're going to be accurate with their reporting, with their information.

[Rich Paul]

They're going to have information. They're going to be able to pull out information that you wouldn't know on the surface.

[Max Kellerman]

So you get, you get, you get information.

[Rich Paul]

It's a little bit more depth to.

[Max Kellerman]

It that's credible that, you know, you go. You take it to the bank.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Shams would be the leader in that. Prior to that, it was Woj, like, he's going to have. And then there's Shefty in football and Rappaport in football. They're going to have some.

[Max Kellerman]

Our guy, Jordan Schultz will have good info.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, look, Chris Haynes, there's several guys right across the sports. What's our guy in baseball?

[Max Kellerman]

Which Kirkjin or Passin? Oh, Jeff Passin.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he has everything. Passing everything. Everything. If I wanna know something about baseball, I'm listening to Jeff.

[Max Kellerman]

Pass it. If you get the info from Passin, take it to the real.

[Rich Paul]

Take it to the bank. So those are the take it to the bank guys. You have some take it to the bank guys, but then you also have some guys you think can actually take it to the bank. But the check's gonna bounce.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So, yeah, and those people are just trying to be first and they're not as Professional.

[Rich Paul]

And then you have like the talking heads or the pundits, which, you know, we see a lot of these platforms pop up, and then you just have the tell them why you mad type of platforms.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So tell them why you're mad. What is that?

[Rich Paul]

It's just a platform where I think it's just like you just saying things just to get aggregated. I think it's all people. But yeah, there's. So you're saying obviously, athletes are gonna ex. Athletes are gonna get the most. What? I would say they're gonna get the most looks.

[Max Kellerman]

But when you say tell them why you mad, you mean those are people that could be guys like me or could be a former athlete or could be whomever. But they're doing things intentionally to get aggregated.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's just a negative connotation about everything to get aggregated. Because that's the thing, the aggregations of it all is what changes things. It's like playing that game in school. If I tell you something, if I say something to Max, then Max says something to John, telephone John, say something to Jesse, and Jesse says something to Dean. By the time it gets to Liv, it's gonna be totally different than what it was. Just between you and I.

[Max Kellerman]

LeBron actually likes Austin Reeves. And by the time it gets there, the white elephant has no shoes.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not speaking about them.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm saying something like that.

[Rich Paul]

In general, when you talk about certain things that a reporter may put out, there it goes from what the reporter said. And then by the time it gets aggregated, it's a totally different story.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

It's just a totally different story. So where do you actually find the truth versus trolling? And that's within the mayhem. And so I think. I think that there should be. From the leagues, the league should spend a lot of time.

[Max Kellerman]

NBA, NFL, mlb, nhlbga. Okay.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. They should carve out verifying certain platforms. So the viewer or the reader.

[Max Kellerman]

Platforms or individuals.

[Rich Paul]

Individuals, I'll say individuals. But. But a little bit of both. Because you can have a. You should be able to have a rich platform.

[Max Kellerman]

That's because. Because this is what Elon did on Twitter when he ruined it.

[Rich Paul]

He.

[Max Kellerman]

He buys it. And then there was verification based on making sure that people understood that whoever's account it was was authentically theirs and there couldn't be imitations of them. The whole point in verification is it was identification. You needed credibility and it's credibility.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Then he comes along and says, oh, it's also prestige. You can buy prestige. And an advantage by paying my company something. But then that it's not at all about verification.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, well, that helped. That helped the self esteem of the person.

[Max Kellerman]

The consumer.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, the consumer.

[Max Kellerman]

Because it became prestigious to have a blue check.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. But it hurt the credibility of.

[Max Kellerman]

Of course it defeats. It undermines the purpose of. It's idiotic. Like you have to be such an idiot not to see that what Elon was doing was completely taking away the idea of verification, but at that very moment and just turned it to a.

[Rich Paul]

Status symbol at that very moment, the leagues. Because at that very moment the league should have been able to carve out. But no, something different for platforms and journalists to say, okay, yes, he's doing that, but this is an NBA verified reporter.

[Max Kellerman]

I love that. I love that platform. Rich. That's so good. Because first of all, the leagues should love this because it actually gives them a little more control over the media because they would be thinking they're gonna have to play nice with us or at least implicitly or at least, at least behave responsibly. Right.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

The leagues could abuse that power and make, oh, we're only gonna give verification to people who treat us well. But if they do that responsibly. And you'd have to figure out how to like put a safeguard in so that they couldn't just do it to control the media. But if they do, as long as you behave responsibly, you can be verified by the league.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Amazing. It does give the league better control of the media, which they like, even if the consumer might not love that part. But it also means that when you see this is coming from a verified NBA account, you know, it's not going to be B.S. they're going to have the real info.

[Rich Paul]

Now that doesn't mean that that account has to say everything to your liking.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

It just can't be so outlandish to where.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, the danger would be that the.

[Rich Paul]

League or there's no substance to it at all because there's some fantasy basketball situations that you have to play hypotheticals that you know, obviously I've been down that road.

[Max Kellerman]

But how do you put safeguards in to make sure the league doesn't just hand it out to those who will cover them favorably.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I don't get paid the big bucks for that. That's for them to get paid the big bucks for. But someone else. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's more helpful than hurtful. I agree in that regard.

[Max Kellerman]

I think, listen, it's okay. The Consumer will know, okay, if that's a verified account, that there may be some pressure not to cover the league unfavorably. That's always been the case with all, quote, unquote, legitimate media through the years. Right. They get press passes, they have a certain relationship with the league. But the main thing is the consumer will know they're not getting bullshit from this. They're getting the responsible journalism.

[Rich Paul]

And I think it cleans it up a little bit too. Because, look, if you have a platform and you're utilizing it the right way, where you have a show, you gotta decide what you're doing it for. If I'm doing it for, like, for this, people say, well, why are you doing this show? I'm doing this show because I felt like there was a white space from someone in my position to really give insight and education on things that happen in my environment. In addition to being able to talk sports, Max is my man. You got Spotify, Netflix, the Ringer, all those things pushed to the table. I want to make that bet. Right? That's great for me. I've been on several different platforms throughout. It's something that I like to do, no problem. And I'm gonna do it as responsible as I can or as responsibly as I can. But then there's platforms. It's just like, okay, let's just get in the living room and let's just talk about things. And if you have those hours to waste in your day, great. I don't have those hours to waste my day. I have to be building something towards. It has to have some type of.

[Max Kellerman]

And that's the reason I also wanted to do this is because not just the relationship that we have, but the fact that. The fact that through the years when you have been a source for me, I never got burnt. What you told me was always true. I was never spun in a way where afterwards I'm like, well, Rich told me half the truth to get me to message for him on TV and use me as a useful idiot, right? Which a lot of people in the media are positioned that way by different sources. So I thought doing a show with Rich, he's credible. That's one of the reasons I could do this.

[Rich Paul]

Right. And the part about me doing the show was because there's so much non credible sources, so many non credible sources out there, and a guy in my position where I'm being teamed up on by every agency out there and they have their, you know, people putting things out there when, you know what, okay, great, Then I'll just create my own platform. That way I'll be able to. You'll be able to hear it from the horse's mouth. So that was part of the reason also.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, it's like a. So to not be like click, clickbait, basically.

[Rich Paul]

No, I don't want to be clickbait. I think there's some things you're going to say and topics that you're going to talk about that will go viral. But for me and Game over, we always talked about it being insightful, educational. We want the listener to come, but we can't be a vitamin. We can't just only talk about these things. There's other topics that we can talk about as well. But I always wanted to be elevated. And by the way, not even making it just about me. Once we started having guests, if they were willing to come on, I would give other people, quote, unquote, agents of platform if they want to come on and talk. They don't have to be necessarily within my company and talk about several different great whomever.

[Max Kellerman]

If I have anyone in mind, let's shout them out.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I'm not gonna do all that right now, but you're all welcome. This is like Frank White. They're all welcome. Everyone's welcome. Because I think that we get so used to things being the way they was or only having to stay a specific way, and I just don't agree with that. So I think there's a world where you can do this and do it the right way. Now they have to have a different relationship with their clients. And we're going to talk about this on Wednesday when I talk about the state of the agent business to give some insight. But that's for them. I know the relationship I have with mine. I can't dictate that.

[Max Kellerman]

So listen, it's undoubtedly in your best business interest to have a pod because even as you're being honest, you can still choose what topics to talk about. You're obviously not gonna damage any of your clients by doing anything because you are the CEO of that business. It is also. This is not the only thing I do either. And I also use this to promote the stuff that I like. For example, the Zufa boxing stuff.

[Rich Paul]

No, it's great.

[Max Kellerman]

No, I'm gonna tell you about the Zufa boxing experience. This last weekend I was in Vegas.

[Rich Paul]

How was that?

[Max Kellerman]

First of all, for me, it was amazing. First of all. So we're doing Zufa boxing one, right? This is the first ever. It's like going to UFC 1, that's pretty cool. And I ordered UFC. I think it was one, it was one or two when it was on pay per view, because it was like who wins? The karate body guy or the judo guy, Jiu jitsu guy, the kung fu guy? And there was an answer. It was Brazilian jiu jitsu wins. And then ground and pound came out of that. Cause American wrestlers learned if I could stay out of submission holds and kind of give this guy elbows and stuff, I could.

[Rich Paul]

This guy in Florida, they used to fight in the backyard. What was his name?

[Max Kellerman]

He was Kimbo Slice.

[Rich Paul]

Kimbo Slice, Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But this predates. This is like, you know, this is going back to Hoist Gracie and Shamrock and these guys, right?

[Rich Paul]

Early on, you know what year I was born, right? So you start going into these, we're.

[Max Kellerman]

Up to UFC 324. So we just did it, so. Or they just did it. So that was 324 years ago. No, it's not one, it's 324 years ago. The UFC won. But so anyway, so we're doing Zufa Boxing one and it's at the meta apex in Vegas. UFC Arena. I don't know, it seats a couple hundred people. It's intimate kind of thing and it's small. And no one's heard about the fighters on the card really. Like unless you're a hardcore boxing fan, even some of them you wouldn't know. And I'm looking around, we had some good fights. Like, good, like first fight of the night was one of the best prelim fights I've ever seen. Because you like first fight of the card fights. Because the first, when you get that first fight of the card. Let's say there are 10 fights on a fight card. When you go to the fights, the first one is either a hot prospect in against a guy who has no chance, he beats the hell out of him, takes them out early, or if it's a great action fight, it's. Cause neither guy really knows what they're doing. They're young fighters and they, you know, in any sport, offense comes first, right? You just kind of throw the offense at each other or whatever. And so this was neither of those. This was two undefeated fighters early in their careers with deep amateur backgrounds boxing. Like they fought a six rounder. I wish it was for 10 rounds. Troy Nash and Jacob Ramos, these two dudes were like high level. If you took their names away and told me it was a title fight and here's the first six rounds of the title fight, I Might believe you. It was like fought on that level, adjustments and high speed chess and action and shifts in momentum, the whole thing. So like right away the card was good, but also the judges got it right. Like in every fight there was a war to start. The main portion of the card, like the on Paramount plus and it was Cain Sandoval who was the favorite against Julian Hammerhands. Rodriguez, right, Hammerhands came in almost two to one favorite, but he wins. He's landing all the best punches, the whole thing. But you're so used to judges favoring the favored guy because they view him as the one the promoter wants to win and giving points for aggression, even if it's not effective aggression, right. That as I'm watching the fight I'm like, they're gonna give this to Sandoval. They're gonna of course rip off Rodriguez. And not only did they give it to Rodriguez, they gave it to him wide like they didn't. It was an actual unofficial judge who's excellent. Skipper Kelp had it wide for Rodriguez, cuz he knows what he's looking at and so did all the judges. The refs called a knockdown in the main event against Callum Walsh, the quote unquote, who would be in another promotion, the house. And it was kind of a BS knockdown, but technically it was a knockdown cause he got pulled, but he also got hit as his glove touched the canvas. That's technically a knockdown. The ref called it. Where a lot of times if the house fighter, they look the other way on that. So the officiating was all above the boards. The fights were really good. But the big thing to me, Rich was told you it was at the meta apex. It's a small arena, right? It's intimate the next night. And this is Zufa boxing when we're just starting this thing the next night. I go to UFC 324, sold out at T Mobile. I don't know, 15, 20,000 people there, whatever it is.

[Rich Paul]

T Mobile's a decent sized arena.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, the energy's crazy. Robert Kraft is cage side, all this stuff, Theo Vaughn, a whole bunch of people or cageside. And I'm looking around and I'm thinking this is where it's heading, you know what I mean? Like just when we start the pod, we start it in one way and we know we have an idea.

[Rich Paul]

You're saying this is where Zufa's heading?

[Max Kellerman]

This is where Zufa Boxing is heading. It's heading toward selling out the T Mobile. It being perceived as like The UFC is perceived as the major leagues of mma, and at least that's the hope. That's where it's heading. And to be a part of something from the ground floor when, you know, people have a plan and it's people who have done it before. So I was, yeah, I think it's.

[Rich Paul]

The evolution of boxing, and I think Dana and his team being able to identify that, okay, this is boxing. This is what boxing has always been. This is where it's at. These are the things within boxing that are headaches for not only for the business, but also for the boxers. Right. And this is the stagnation within the boxing business that won't allow it to explode. Because every time you think boxing is going to explode, whether it's selfishness, whether it's lack thereof, business acumen, or everything put together, it pushes it back down. But what it sounds like to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not educated on the Zufa, but what it sounds like to me is Zufa saying, okay, we're going to take everything that people have somewhat an issue with, that's whether it's borderline or not, whether it's perceived to be bad optics or whatever. And we're gonna address those things. No question, we're gonna address all those things. There's not gonna be this perception that, oh, just because I'm the champ with the most to lose, even if I lost, I won because I'm the bigger purse guy, they're taking all that away.

[Max Kellerman]

And also, when you go to the arena, Rich, like the thing about the purse, as I go to 234, the main event, Patty Pimblett lost to, you know, Paddy the baddie loses to Gaddy. Yeah. Not only is this dude a really good fighter and really tough, but hard not to root for him. And Justin Gaethje, who's also like one of my all time favorite MMA fighters, Rich, when I tell you they put on a classic, this was Banette. This fight was crazy. Pimblett should have been out in the second round. The fact that he went the distance in a tough fight. But that's the point about the ufc. The guys are evenly matched. You know, it's going to be a show. All those people in that arena are the underdog could win and the underdog win.

[Rich Paul]

That's the biggest thing in sports when the underdog can win, especially in fighting. But here's the thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Can I tell you something before you tell me that?

[Commercial Announcer]

Sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Ten fights on the Canelo Crawford card. Right. That was Zufa boxing's real first card. Even though it wasn't Zufa one. They promoted it. Ten fights on the card, including Canelo Crawford, the favorite one, six. Then there were three wins for the underdog and a draw. That's when Dana says that's pretty good. When Dana says 50, 50, 60, 40 fights, that's 60, 40.

[Rich Paul]

That's 60, 40. That's pretty good.

[Max Kellerman]

60% of the time the favorite one.

[Rich Paul]

Can we take game over behind the scenes of Zufa? Yeah, we should do that. And then I want to speak to Dana. Actually, I might text him because one thing we should add to Zufa. This is where I'm trying to earn my stripes.

[Max Kellerman]

Go ahead.

[Rich Paul]

I just want to be able to get that Bronzino from Milos Cage side with the capers. Like we should be able to elevate the cause. It's not like UFC where it's. Well, it could be a little.

[Max Kellerman]

They have some food in the sweets and stuff.

[Rich Paul]

Put like a windshield up to where nothing, you know, and I could just sit there.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't know if it's a Branzino kind of crowd.

[Rich Paul]

I'm talking about me. I'm not talking about. I have to eat light and healthy.

[Max Kellerman]

So your contribution boxing will be.

[Rich Paul]

Or listen, there's several restaurants you can have. Yes, but I just chose the Milos. But there could be other ones, right? I like Wing Lee out of the way, which is great from a listen.

[Max Kellerman]

I never thought they'd have like high end sushi at Yankee Stadium, you know.

[Rich Paul]

Well, they should.

[Max Kellerman]

I know they like.

[Rich Paul]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Because, you know, it adds to it. I think it's gonna be a great product. But yes, let's do it behind the scenes there.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

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[Rich Paul]

And it works.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

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[Max Kellerman]

Dabo Sweeney had a bar. Ooh, you sent me the link to the press conference.

[Rich Paul]

Dabo was in his bag. He was.

[Max Kellerman]

He said. Dabo Sweeney said like Taking another offer for a kid. And he was really more critical of other coaches than he was of the kids committing one place and then taking a better offer. He said taking a better offer when you're already on campus attending classes, accepting deals is like cheating on your honeymoon or having an affair on your honeymoon.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that was a bar. I mean, look, listen, we're going to get into this on Wednesday because I'm going to give a whole. I might need my whiteboard back for the state of the agent business. And I'm going to talk about nil agents. I'm going to talk about our business and where it's at and things that you go through and how things is positioned to hold nine. But being on the representation side, I understood Dabo and his discourse for what took place.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, he wasn't too happy about it.

[Rich Paul]

But for the sake of us, and I know you got to do. I just want to get to it. We'll do it on Wednesday.

[Max Kellerman]

What about the players all star voting situation?

[Rich Paul]

We have to change that.

[Max Kellerman]

Not taking it seriously.

[Rich Paul]

Well, here's the issue.

[Max Kellerman]

Bronny got votes.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, like. But that happens. That's been happening for so long. But the issue is it's a very slippery slope for the players to play with, because every chance you get in our business to show that, one, you are actually engaged and you care, and then two, that you're gonna take something serious, the more. The more equity you can actually gain.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Right. In the minds of the league. Because if every time you do something and it's perceived as you're not taking it serious, then when you really start asking for things that are serious, you're not going to be believed. And so it's like, which way do you want to have it? And so I would.

[Max Kellerman]

In other words, when they're negotiating the next collective bargaining agreement, if it's like, you guys don't take this seriously, then you lose credibility in a negotiation.

[Rich Paul]

But my thing is, why won't you take it serious? Because the moment we have to do a better job of getting the players to understand that. I know you don't necessarily feel as if you are a partner, but you still have to position yourself and conduct yourself as if you are a partner.

[Max Kellerman]

Isn't the revenue split 50, 50. What is it right now?

[Rich Paul]

It's not 50, 50.

[Max Kellerman]

What is it? It's close to it.

[Rich Paul]

No, it's not. It's close. Close enough.

[Max Kellerman]

60, 40, 55.

[Rich Paul]

It's not 60 40. It's probably.

[Max Kellerman]

It's lower than 60 40.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Right now.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's basically 50 50.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but yes, yes, but 5050 is 50 50. But, but there's 5050 in terms of BRI and it's 5050 in terms of decision making.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm saying if you're within. I'm not saying these aren't huge. These every percentage point represents a huge amount of money. I get it. But if you're, if you're talking about a revenue split where the players are getting like over 40% of the revenue, closer to 50 than 40, that's almost.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, fair. I'm not just talking about wiggle room there, but I'm saying, see that's the thing. It shouldn't always have to be about revenue in order to get your attention because that's how they trick you in a lot of ways. Right? Like for example, if there's a report just say such and such signed a max contract and you like yeah, it came out in the media, it said it was a max deal. But then when you actually get the contract, the last year is non guaranteed. Well, it's not a max contract or there's several different things within the language of it that's not necessarily max like and so if we keep allowing ourselves to be position where you're only moving for what you individually have to gain, then that's an easy target for. That's how you, from a Ponzi scheme perspective, that's how you set up the big one. Right, right. In most cases. So what I'm saying is, okay, if the players aren't going to take, if the players aren't going to take it serious, the players aren't going to take it serious. We have to come up with a different format for, for, for player voting because again like we'll give the players.

[Max Kellerman]

A vote, you know, and look, we're.

[Rich Paul]

Not give the players a vote and but you, but it's hard to do that because if you don't give a player a vote then they complain. But when you give the players a.

[Max Kellerman]

Vote, so let them complain.

[Rich Paul]

They don't take it serious.

[Max Kellerman]

You know who doesn't complain about the All Star Game? Victor Wembanyama. I want to push the great players of this sport to play in the All Star Game just as hard as I will. We'll see how it goes. But if they don't play hard, I'll do it without them. This is coming from a guy. This is coming from a guy whose physiology, right? Because he's seven foot seven And a half feet tall makes him, one would think, more injury prone, like more prone to a catastrophic career altering injury. This is a guy who, who has not made his fortune yet. Right. He hasn't gotten to that supermax deal yet. This is a guy who. But you know, like he of all people coming out and saying, this ought to shame the rest of the league and the play. Like if the number one signature guy in your sport right now, which, let's face it, in many respects it's already Wemby. He's already the guy people want to come see and he's already playing.

[Rich Paul]

About him having the ability to be the face of the league.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Ridiculously high level. If this dude is like. Because he's coming across. I said this on the party thing. KD comes across as a baller all day. Right. Wembanyama comes across as a fan of the NBA like the way a kid is a fan. The way a kid would say, hey, if I could grow up and play in the NBA, you know, I wouldn't be cynical and jaded. I would want to give it. He comes across as that guy when.

[Rich Paul]

Benyama, in addition to. And he's not the only one that dives on the floor for loose balls as a, as a star player. But he does it at 7 4, right. I've seen him do that. I've seen him get kind of nicked up and banged up.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't want to see him diving on no floor for no loose ball.

[Rich Paul]

I know.

[Max Kellerman]

Let someone else.

[Rich Paul]

Mitch probably doesn't either, but he does because he loves the game. And I don't think he's. I think what he said is authentic. I don't think there's some people that you would be like, oh, he's saying that because it's a good soundbite. Like, I believe he really believes that and he's going to show that and his appreciation. But again, when you talk about international versus domestic, and I know that's been a conversation for a while, as much as it's about that, but it's also what's within. Like, how much do you care? And when you talk about winning championships as a star player, the most important thing that you have to have on your team when trying to vie for winning championships is your other teammates have to care for just as much as you do. And you know, we've seen throughout our league some star players care, some don't. And hopefully it's trending towards like, what Jaylen Brown is doing. What Jaylen Brown is doing. Like it or not, and I don't know why you wouldn't like it. He's showing every night that he actually cares.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. You could understand that the Celtics kind of thought, okay, this is in our year, right? Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

No, he's not.

[Max Kellerman]

Injuries and everything.

[Rich Paul]

And this is not even about a. You know, I don't want to make an excuse about a chip on his shoulder or anything like that. That's just who he is. He wants to win. He cares. And we need more of that. The more of that we can have, the better brand of basketball we would have. And I say this all the time. The NBA is the best league in the business. The NBA is the best league in the business.

[Max Kellerman]

Listen, when Wembanyama says stuff like that, like, I'm gonna. I hope everyone's playing as hard in the All Star game as I am, then it's not just that he could become the face of the league. It's that you're rooting for him to become the face of the league.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

He's very good at basket.

[Rich Paul]

He's going to carry it with care.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Say what you want. And being a fan is having an opinion you should be able to like or actually not like. Whoever you want to not like. But that person, one thing you can't hate on is their care, you know? And so I think kudos to Wemby for.

[Max Kellerman]

If this dude fixes the All Star game, There's no excuse. The NBA All Star game should have the. Should be the best All Star game. And it's not. It's not even good.

[Rich Paul]

But not only just the all star game, because I've watched a ton of different. I just. A ton of different all star games. I just watched the all Star Game that was in D.C. in 01. And I remember where I was sitting at that game. I was sitting in row five, in between the baskets when they were going back and forth with Marvin Hills.

[Max Kellerman]

I believe I was at that All Star game.

[Rich Paul]

I was at that all Star game.

[Max Kellerman]

I was in D.C. i was in D.C. doing around the horn.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And that was Jordan's, I guess, last one, right?

[Rich Paul]

No, no, no. Jordan's last one was the all Star game in Atlanta.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay.

[Rich Paul]

That was 03.

[Max Kellerman]

Still. I believe I was at 01 was.

[Rich Paul]

D.C. 02 was Philly. 03 was Atlanta.

[Max Kellerman]

I think it was in 01.

[Rich Paul]

I don't remember definitely being there because I went to a party at Ananda Lewis. Had a party, May she rest in peace. Had a party at. Damn. What was it called? It was Called Zanzibar back then. I think it was on the water. I think that became H2O, if I'm not mistaken. But I've been moving around a long time, Max. But yeah, I was at that All Star game for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

The fact that I can't remember means.

[Rich Paul]

Either, but I can.

[Max Kellerman]

I wasn't there or, man, I'm getting old.

[Rich Paul]

But that's okay, because Wednesday we have a big show to do.

[Max Kellerman]

We do.

[Rich Paul]

Good topic. I gotta go home and really prep.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's see what happens in sports between now and Wednesday.

[Rich Paul]

Well, some good NBA games coming up. I watched. You know what I watched? It was some pretty good games. I watched Mavs, Lakers. That was a game of rollercoaster game. But when LJ went to the five spot, it changed things. And that's a whole other thing. Like the five position in our league has to come with iq, man. Like you. Like the five position is just as important as the quarterback position.

[Max Kellerman]

Why can't LJ play the five? I mean, he's a little undersized, but he's 260.

[Rich Paul]

No, but when you go small. But if you go. If you go to the winning lineup on every team, Draymond was at the five.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure, absolutely.

[Rich Paul]

I think on the Cavs, that was the best.

[Max Kellerman]

Their death lineup was draymond at the 5.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. On the Cavs, Mobley would be at the 5. On the Bucks, Giannis would be at the 5. You know, obviously, Joker's Joker, and Embiid is Embiid. But outside of that, you know, when you talk about the five, man, look, if Jayson Tatum was healthy, they could put him at health.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, the center in basketball is like the center in football in the sense that it is a high IQ position.

[Rich Paul]

It's a high IQ position. And if you don't have that, you're going to be. It's just tough. Look, that's why Sam went and got Hardenstein. Like Hardenstein at that position. He's high iq.

[Max Kellerman]

The Knicks did not want to lose Hartenstein. They just couldn't afford him.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, make that little floater. So I watched the Sixers and the Knicks, which was the Knicks fans travel so crazy. It was confusing because it was a Sixers home game, but the Knicks fans were.

[Max Kellerman]

That's a short.

[Rich Paul]

That's a train ride away for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

I'll say this, but the regular season.

[Rich Paul]

Game, as cold as it was for them to still just come out on the road, it's not like they were going to, you know, to the Garden.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but It's.

[Rich Paul]

They went to the Garden.

[Max Kellerman]

Actually, once you get to the Garden, you go down into Penn Station, hop on a train. It's almost like you're going to the Garden. You're there in 90 minutes. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

An hour 15, whatever it is.

[Max Kellerman]

Not even 90. Yeah. If you're on the Acela, you're there in our. They come around, they give you a thing of orange juice.

[Rich Paul]

I've taken that train ride.

[Max Kellerman]

By the time you're done, you're there.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

When I was a kid, because I was signed to Rough House Records and I was getting to Philly.

[Rich Paul]

Rough House.

[Max Kellerman]

Rough House.

[Rich Paul]

Why do I remember that Rough House?

[Max Kellerman]

Because that was Cypress Hill, Kris Kross, Joe the Butcher and them. To get to Philly from New York, and I couldn't afford the Acela, so you had to go New Jersey Transit. Transit.

[Commercial Announcer 2]

Three times.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, if you can get the Acela, great. But if not, just make a couple stops.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, unless it's the holiday schedule.

[Rich Paul]

They all got to stop in Wilmington.

[Max Kellerman]

Unless it's the holiday schedule and you didn't realize that it's the middle of the night and there's no connection. You gotta sleep on the bench. I got caught out there.

[Rich Paul]

Never been that route, but yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

No. So Wednesday, let's do a good show. I'm proud of you today, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Why is that?

[Rich Paul]

Because your takes was not as long as they normally would be. You got a. I almost came and cut you off for a split second there when you got into the whole Zupa UFC thing.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me put you. Let me.

[Rich Paul]

But I understand why. Listen, I get it. I'm just saying we're all good.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Because little do you know, behind the scenes, I'm getting the tape made to show. Timing of your tape.

[Max Kellerman]

Same. Do you know what the time turned out to be when we were arguing about it? What, Jesse, what was the time?

[Rich Paul]

12:04 or 1203.

[Max Kellerman]

We were talked for the exact same amount of time within four seconds.

[Rich Paul]

But for some reason, yours just seemed like.

[Max Kellerman]

Because I put twice as much information into every sentence. Yeah, because you're trying to make the.

[Rich Paul]

Point and show how much smarter you are than me. And people don't believe that.

[Max Kellerman]

Why does it everyone I work with. I'm not trying to show anything. It's just who I am.

[Rich Paul]

I said on the first show, you are a very smart guy.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, I mean, if I'm so much smarter than you, how come you're richer than me and you're 10 years younger?

[Rich Paul]

Well, that's just my government name.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Paul]

I don't know about that.

[Max Kellerman]

Wednesday, Wednesday. Max Kellerman, Rich Paul. Game over.

[Rich Paul]

Please leave us details in the comments. And we gotta think about what guests. It's time to have guests on. They said we can have guests on now, so we got. Please help us understand.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Who do you want to see? Who do you want to see?

[Rich Paul]

Who do you guys want to see?

[Max Kellerman]

We're going to start having guests.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I know. I want to see, but I won't reveal it. Yeah, but I know.

[Max Kellerman]

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[Commercial Announcer]

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