Why Nobody Should Complain About the Dodgers—Plus NBA Europe and LeBron's Rings

Summary

Game Over with Max Kellerman & Rich Paul

Why Nobody Should Complain About the Dodgers—Plus NBA Europe and LeBron's Rings

Host: The Ringer
Date: August 3, 2026

Episode Overview

In their 101st episode, Max Kellerman and Rich Paul dive into three major topics in the world of sports and culture:

• The Los Angeles Dodgers’ recent dominance and why criticisms of their spending are misplaced
• The implications of NBA expansion into Europe and what it could mean for the game globally
• The ongoing debate over “ring chasing” in the NBA, especially in relation to LeBron James’ legacy

The episode is interwoven with their trademark humor, insights from Rich Paul’s unique vantage point as a super-agent, and Max’s relentless sports analysis. The duo also touches on shoe culture, generational family dynamics, and the pressures facing today’s young athletes.

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Table of Contents

1. Opening Banter & Pop Culture Talk
2. The Dodgers and MLB Team-Building
3. NBA Europe: Expansion and Its Impact
4. LeBron, “Ring Chasing,” and NBA Player Legacy
5. Shoe Culture & Big Men’s Signature Shoes
6. Family, Generational Change, and Life Lessons
7. Memorable Quotes & Moments
8. Timestamps for Key Segments

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1. Opening Banter & Pop Culture Talk (01:34–05:22)

• Max and Rich joke about Max’s eating habits (Max allegedly ate four fish sandwiches)
• Discussion of LA’s “Daybird”—praised as having the best fish sandwiches in LA
• Brief critiques of movies and TV:
  • Max rates the new “Odyssey” movie a B, Dean gives it a C-
  • “Dark” on Netflix recommended; subtitled German series
• Commentary on how show writing now accommodates distracted, dual-screen viewers:
  • "They're writing for a secondary device because everyone understands the primary device is your phone..." —Max Kellerman [04:58]

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2. The Dodgers and MLB Team-Building (05:50–16:38)

The Dodgers' "Unfair" Advantage

• Max unpacks the outrage about the Dodgers' dominance:
  • Special luxury tax exemption allows them to pay less than their payroll would dictate
  • Huge local TV deal funds their spending
  • Despite financial advantages, credits Dodgers for smart management, not just money

"The Dodgers are smarter than other teams. Their farm system is better than other teams. ...When they see what they want and it's going to be painful for their organization, they got to trade prospects that they don't want to trade...But the Dodgers think they can win."
—Max Kellerman [07:09]

• Examples of Dodgers’ bold moves: trades for Trey Turner, Max Scherzer, Mookie Betts, Shohei Ohtani, and Tarek Skubal
• Max argues other teams (especially the Yankees) lack guts and vision

The Yankees & Other Teams

• Yankees are called out for "competence" but not excellence
• Comparison to shopping for sneakers: Sometimes you end up paying the same for things you don’t want, instead of paying top dollar for the one you do
• Brewers missed opportunity, despite their window to pair Skubal with star pitcher Misorowski

"...Stop bitching about it and go do something about it. Oh, we don't have the money to compete. Yes, you do."
—Max Kellerman [11:42]

Potential MLB Lockout

• Both agree a lockout is probable due to small-market owner frustration
• Baseball’s recent improvements (pitch clock, bigger bases) at risk

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3. NBA Europe: Expansion and Its Impact (17:13–30:54)

European Expansion

• NBA in Europe is happening, with team valuations between $500 million and $1 billion
• London pegged as Europe's Knicks—potential for a $10 billion franchise
• Rich Paul sees expansion as an opportunity for talented players who can't find NBA roster spots

"A lot of guys get kind of boxed out. And so I do think NBA Europe will be great and lucrative. The ability to grow, the awareness of the game..."
—Rich Paul [18:04]

Comparative Analysis: Basketball vs. Soccer

• Basketball hailed as an “evolved” form of soccer; easier global penetration
• Discussion on why soccer hasn’t historically caught on in certain U.S. communities: viewed as an "upper middle class" sport with a lack of relatable role models

Details & Potential Structure

• Possible expansion locations: London, Manchester, Paris, Barcelona, Istanbul, Greece
• Salary cap in NBA Europe expected to be lower initially
• Max and Rich discuss an eventual system with NBA Europe finals and world championships
• Unique pathways for American high school players—potential to start pro careers in Europe

Market & Lifestyle Impact

• London’s sleeper appeal for basketball; parallel drawn to New York fans’ excitement
• Rich: “If I'm a young person and I get to live in one of these cities internationally, what that does for my life experience.” [28:15]

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4. LeBron, "Ring Chasing," and NBA Player Legacy (31:43–63:19)

Social Media and the LeBron Discourse

• Max describes how “ring chasing” narratives dominate his social media reels, criticizes algorithm-driven negativity

What Does "Ring Chasing" Actually Mean?

• Rich dissects LeBron's career in four Hall of Fame-worthy chapters, questioning why the term “ring chasing” would apply to someone with four rings:
  • Cleveland (First stint)
  • Miami
  • Cleveland (Return)
  • Los Angeles

"Ring chasing cannot be aligned with someone that already has rings."
—Rich Paul [41:02]

Comparison with Barkley and Historical Stars

• Max highlights Charles Barkley’s move to Houston as classic “ring chasing” but points out Barkley never had a ring; LeBron already does

Is Going to a “Super Team” the Same?

• Both discuss differences between:
  • LeBron forming Miami’s Big Three (Wade, Bosh)
  • Kevin Durant joining a 73-win Warriors team
• Max: "If you put yourself in a position where you cannot lose...you don't prove the same thing." [58:41]
• Rich counters that “two plus juggernauts” is a standard for every NBA championship team since the 80s; even Bulls and Lakers stacked talent and elite management

LeBron’s Need to Be His Own GM

• Lack of executive/organizational support forced LeBron to play both superstar and architect
• Criticism of LeBron for not sticking it out with one team is compared to outdated societal expectations

"You cannot fault somebody for having the talent level and the production that equals value add anywhere. Anywhere. Don't matter where you play. ...If you just unplug them and place them on the 14 warriors, they win."
—Rich Paul [53:23]

Multiple Viewpoints on Criticism

• Some critics want athletes to “stay in their place”
• Others defend their idols (Kobe, MJ) against LeBron’s GOAT case
• Max: Closest LeBron came to stacking the deck was Miami, but even that team went 2–2 in Finals

Legacy Discussion Wrap-Up

• Max says KD will "never get the same credit" for his Warriors titles as players like Hakeem did for theirs
• Final verdict: For both LeBron and KD, legacy debates will persist, but each made career choices according to personal and competitive needs

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5. Shoe Culture & Big Men’s Signature Shoes (64:18–71:22)

• Max asks if Victor Wembanyama can sell signature shoes despite history of poor big-man sales
• Rich: Only about 10 signature basketball shoes have ever really sold (Jordan, Chuck Taylor, Kyrie, Barkley, KD, Kobe, Penny, LeBron, AI, Ja Morant, possibly LaMelo Ball)
• Basketball shoes today are mostly fashion/lifestyle, not performance-driven
• New Balance cited as now trendy among youth

"Kids don't want to wear basketball shoes. Basketball shoes are no longer a lifestyle shoe."
—Rich Paul [64:51]

• Wemby’s Euro market could boost sales if positioned right

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6. Family, Generational Change, and Life Lessons (72:12–83:08)

• Rich discusses dropping his son off at college—expresses pride and nostalgia
• Both hosts talk about the shift from “18 and out of the house” to kids staying longer with parents, especially in Black communities
• Rich shares that he’s “jealous” his son got to be a kid—unlike his own upbringing
• Max and Rich reflect on their parents’ efforts to show them their roots and expose them to hardship

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7. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “You gotta bring ass to get ass.” —Max Kellerman citing James Toney, on MLB trades [07:05]
• “[The Dodgers] think they can win. They put their money and they put their chips where their mouth are. Right. Like they'll do it.” – Max Kellerman [07:36]
• “I don't mind subtitles, do you?” —Rich Paul [04:55]
• "Basketball is simply an improved version of soccer. It's an evolved version of soccer." —Max Kellerman [19:33]
• “If I'm a high school American kid...Forget nil. I'm going to NBA Europe. Absolutely.” —Rich Paul [26:19]
• "Ring chasing cannot be aligned with someone that already has rings." —Rich Paul [41:02]
• “His floor was Karl Malone at his best.” —Rich Paul on LeBron [43:16]
• “If you have LeBron James and Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh back then, Dean could start at center.” —Max Kellerman [49:56]
• "The worst thing you can do is play house." —Rich Paul [74:42]
• "I'm jealous of my son. ...He actually got the opportunity to be a kid." —Rich Paul [76:34]
• “Uncle Charlie lived. He was 103 years old, man. ...Every single night at 10 o’clock...he’d go to bed.” —Rich Paul [82:31]

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8. Timestamps for Key Segments

• Dodgers & baseball discussion: [05:50]–[16:38]
• MLB lockout/salary cap talk: [13:15]–[14:46]
• NBA Europe expansion: [17:13]–[30:54]
• LeBron, “ring chasing,” and NBA legacy: [31:43]–[63:19]
• Sneaker culture & Wembanyama: [64:18]–[71:22]
• Family & generational reflection: [72:12]–[78:35]
• Old school phone stories/Uncle Charlie: [79:22]–[83:08]

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode exemplifies why Max and Rich have become such strong voices in sports conversation: Max offers sharp, data-driven sports analysis and candid Yankee-fan anguish; Rich Paul mixes business savvy and lived experience as a top agent, unafraid to push back and add real-world color.

Key Takeaways:

• The Dodgers’ success is more about superior management and bold moves than just outspending rivals
• NBA Europe is an imminent, potentially transformative development for global basketball—and could offer new routes for young American and European players
• LeBron’s critics misunderstand modern player agency; “ring chasing” is natural for elite competitors and legacy-building always exists within broader team/organizational dynamics
• Basketball shoes’ market has shifted, but a new European superstar might shake up the signature shoe landscape

Personal stories—about family, growing up, generational trauma, and the value of stability—punctuate the sports content, grounding it in lived reality.

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Contact the Show:
[e-mail] | Call/Text: 424-240-8341

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Listen for:

• Insights on sports business and culture
• Unfiltered takes on legacy debates
• How sports, media, and real life constantly intersect

For timestamped quotes and sharp commentary, this episode is a must for anyone passionate about the business of sports, player legacy, and how the games we love are evolving globally.

Transcript

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[Max Kellerman]

somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister, ones who always show up to the first to rise, the last to leave, they always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.

[Rich Paul]

Max.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You lied to our viewers about. You had four fish sandwiches since I last talked to you. Four.

[Max Kellerman]

I knew this was going to come up.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just, I. I just witnessed four.

[Max Kellerman]

Three and a half.

[Rich Paul]

No, I just witnessed you eat two and. And you had two chicken. Chicken.

[Max Kellerman]

No, wait, wait. I had one and a half today because I had one and then Dean was like, you want to split one?

[Rich Paul]

But you had two and a half with Dean.

[Max Kellerman]

I had two with Dean and then two. Two of those big chicken strips. Yo, tell me, tell me you just had that. I knew this was gonna. That's the only thing I had to eat yesterday. All I'm saying is two fish sandwiches.

[Rich Paul]

The last show we had, you talked about this imaginary diet.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm like, what are you talking about?

[Rich Paul]

I've never seen you not eat over indulged. Yeah, it's like you take provisions to like provisions. Plus, it wasn't even like, it wasn't even noon, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

It was noon. Stop.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not judging you.

[Max Kellerman]

Hold on. We didn't meet up there till 12:30. We probably weren't eating before, like 12:45. One. Okay, I had one and a half fish sandwiches. Now they're fried. They're big fish sandwiches.

[Rich Paul]

Shout out to Daybird. The best fish sandwiches in all of la.

[Max Kellerman]

It's the best. It's one of the best I ever had in my life. It's one of the best fish sandwiches I ever had in my life.

[Rich Paul]

It's really good. Yeah, but between that and the.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you think of the nuggets? You had the chicken nuggets? It's like. By the way, it sounds like we're doing a commercial. They're not paying us for this.

[Rich Paul]

No, they're not paying us for it. But I just, I'm just saying, between that and the Odyssey, you've been, you've been cooking.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you mean, the Odyssey? What'd I do with the.

[Rich Paul]

No, you rushed to go and see the Odyssey. You was there for three hours.

[Max Kellerman]

I went to see the Odyssey because you were gonna see. And I thought we could, we could talk about it on the show.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm going to wait to watch it at home.

[Max Kellerman]

I have a whole thing, I have a whole movie review on it.

[Rich Paul]

Well, just, just, just remember it.

[Max Kellerman]

Dean gave it a C minus. I give it a B.

[Rich Paul]

Well, I, I, I'll give it my own grade. I'll watch it.

[Max Kellerman]

A lot of bad exposition at the end. A lot of bad speechifying by.

[Rich Paul]

I will say, you know, there's disus and there's some there. There's some. I can't wait for Mob Land to come back out. Did you watch Mobland?

[Max Kellerman]

Which one was mob?

[Rich Paul]

Okay, you have to watch it.

[Max Kellerman]

Wait, which one was Mob Land? Oh, you guys told me to watch it. And I think I couldn't get it because I didn't subscribe to some service that I wasn't going to subscribe to just to watch that one movie. It's only on. I forgot where I was or I was. You know, by the way, life is so much harder. The way they have everything set up. I can't remember 15,000 passwords that they then say, there's a data leak, you gotta change the password.

[Rich Paul]

Only watch the shows on Netflix. But what we should do is we should go back and watch the House of Cards.

[Max Kellerman]

I've seen.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but let's watch it again.

[Max Kellerman]

I've seen House of Cards up till halfway through the third season. I stopped watching it. Why? Because it didn't. It fell apart. I disagree. It tumbled like a house of cards. But I'll tell you what, the first season or two are pretty good.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I'll go back and watch it.

[Max Kellerman]

Dark is the best show I've seen in a while. Dark on Netflix. You can watch it. German show. You got to watch it with the

[Rich Paul]

subtitles.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Dark.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Or you can just change it to English. They'll dub it, you know, but it was really good. Dark was really.

[Rich Paul]

I don't mind subtitles, do you? I don't mind subtitles.

[Max Kellerman]

No. Except nowadays with the phones, like. No. You know how they write for shows now? They call them. They're writing for a secondary device because everyone understands the primary device is your phone and you're kind of paying half attention to the show. So they have to, like, every now and then they have to stop and kind of like some character has to stay very clearly. What happened. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It's very interesting.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

All right.

[Max Kellerman]

You ready to talk sports?

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Do it.

[Max Kellerman]

Game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul.

[Rich Paul]

Game [e-mail]. this is our 101st show, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

101.

[Rich Paul]

Congratulations again.

[Max Kellerman]

Congratulations. Mazel tov.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

You should have. You should have been dressed like a dalmatian today,

[Max Kellerman]

Rich. Your wheelhouse baseball. There's a big trade that just went down. Okay, how about business? Does that wake you up? Business. There we go. Everyone's complaining about the Dodgers right now.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Why?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, because. So the reporting is that. And what I vaguely remembered this when this went down, when Frank McCourt owned the team and then he had a divorce and there was a bankruptcy proceeding, all this kind of stuff. The Dodgers got a special exemption from the luxury tax, essentially where they are paying. They should be paying tax at a rate of close to 100 million a year based on their payroll. And they pay something like 20 million a year. Okay. Because major league baseball didn't want one of their blue chip franchises to stink for 20 years. Right. But what happened was the Dodgers then signed an enormous local TV rights deal which is much higher than people thought it would be. So they have this big. So they pay less tax on a bigger deal than anyone else has. They have this huge financial advantage that everyone's crying about. But that is. It Isit helps them because they can push their chips into the middle of the table at times. And even if the deal doesn't work out perfectly, they can absorb that hit. Whereas another franchise, like they signed a guy, Kyle Tucker, looked like a blue chip corner outfielder. I wanted the Yankees to get him. He's having so far, we're not all the way done. A bad season by his standards. And another team who spent all that money on Kyle Tucker would be stuck right now. But the Dodgers can absorb that and still make another big deal. So that helps them, there's no question. But that is not why they're as good as they. It makes them better, but it's not why they are such a well run franchise. Just because they have this monetary advantage, financial advantage. The Dodgers are smarter than other teams. Their farm system is better than other teams. And their philosophy, you could see it rich, not just with free agents, with trades they've made. As the great James Toney said, one of the all time great fighters, you gotta bring ass to get ass. And the Dodgers, that's what he said. And the Dodgers, when they see what they want and it's going to be painful for their organization, they got to trade prospects that they don't want to trade. Maybe it's just a short term rental because it's after the, you know, it's at the trade deadline and they're going to be free agents and they're not going to re sign with the Dodgers. But the Dodgers think they can win. They put their money and they put their chips where their mouth are. Right. Like they'll do it. So when several years ago, Trey Turner and Max Scherzer were available. Blue chip, rich blue chip, not bargain hunting. You're not in the Filene's basement rack looking for something that's off season. You're going to Rodeo Drive and this thing just came out and you're paying top dollar because everyone wants it, right? With prospects. Now this is not free agency. They're not spending money. They traded the prospects for Trey Turner and Max Scherzer. And Scherzer left right after the very next season. They didn't keep them long term.

[Rich Paul]

When Mookie Betts, did they win the World Series?

[Max Kellerman]

Did they win the World Series that year? They've won three recently and I'm forgetting what year that was. They made a.

[Rich Paul]

But they, yeah, they were aggressive. Yeah, they went for it.

[Max Kellerman]

Mookie Betts, an all time great player in his prime. The Dodgers didn't buy Mookie Betts. They traded for him. Good prospects that the Red Sox wanted got Mookie Betts. And yes, they then signed Lynn. Shohei Ohtani with all the money he's getting. He deferred so much of that money because he wanted to play for the Dodgers. Shohei, in adjusted dollars makes about a little under 30 a year. A lot of teams could afford that if they would have structured the deal the way the Dodgers did with Shohei. If Shohei wanted to play for their organization.

[Rich Paul]

Do you think Shohei would have got as much as he did had he not wanted to defer a lot of it.

[Max Kellerman]

No, the actual number. But the Dodgers did not make the top offer. Or I'm sure, for example, the Yankees, if they were serious, if Shohei wanted to play for them in adjusted dollars, could have made a very competitive offer, probably beating the Dodgers. The Yankees are scared. Their GM is competent, but not great. Right? Just competent. And the Yankees are basically uncompetitive in a real way because they want to be good, but they're content with being good enough. And so a guy like Shohei, that

[Rich Paul]

doesn't seem like the Yankees DNA.

[Max Kellerman]

And yet, well, I mean, Steinbrenner is a horribly overrated owner. The George Steinbrenner. The late, great George Steinbrenner who did a lot of good things in the 70s, but was a disaster in the 1980s. Like one of the. Really, the decisions he made were just awful in the 1980s. And the only reason the Yankees got great in the late 90s, because Steinbrenner was kicked out of baseball so he couldn't meddle and mess up the team. His son is okay. He's pretty good. He's like, you know, a run of the mill kind of big market owner. He's not especially competitive. Brian Cashman is a competent gm. The Yankees don't ever stink. That's good. It's hard to do that even with a lot of money. But they're not the judge. They're not now in the 21st century, 25 years into it. They're not the premium baseball brand in terms of who you're expecting to win all the time. That's the Dodgers. Now, Tarek Skubal, the reason I'm bringing all this up was available for a trade. The Dodgers landed him.

[Rich Paul]

Sign that.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, they might not resign him, but they're the team that landed him.

[Rich Paul]

But they want to win this year again.

[Max Kellerman]

And everyone's crying, you know, these other teams, including my beloved Yankees, stop bitching about it and go do something about it. Oh, we don't have the money to compete. Yes, you do. You don't have to outspend the Dodgers to compete with them or beat them. You could have traded enough prospects for Scubal if you thought Skuba was a good idea. Another guy, Freddie Freeman, was available. Middle of a Hall of Fame career. He was going to cost you a lot of money. Not the biggest contract in the sport. Nothing the Yankees couldn't spend. But the Yankees, well, we could get Paul Goldschmidt for this and this guy for. And they got three or four different guys whose total value doesn't equal Freddie Freeman's and they wound up paying. You know, it's like when, like, I'll bring it back to close because you're, you're into like, you know, like, if you think of kicks, right? If that's the pair of kicks that you want, but oh, man, that's expensive.

[Rich Paul]

I'll get. You got to pay more for them. If I want them, I'm overpaying.

[Max Kellerman]

So you wind up trying to approximate them by getting, well, I'll get this and I'll get this. You wind up spending the same amount of money on three different pairs of kicks you really didn't want.

[Rich Paul]

Just get ones you want.

[Max Kellerman]

Get the ones you wanted. But you have to have the guts to pull the trigger on the thing you actually want when the cost is painful. So the Yankees just made a trade for a good hitter from Washington who can play a little first base, little second base, not a really good defender because they didn't have to trade much for him while the Dodgers landed Skubal. Right.

[Rich Paul]

So it's just a safe play from the Yankees. You're saying the Dodgers are being ultra aggressive. All this sounds like a lockout.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you're right. It's going to be a lockout.

[Rich Paul]

That's what it sounds like.

[Max Kellerman]

It's going to be a lockout. Because the dumber owners are not as smart as the Dodger owners. It's not just the financial advantage. And this is what happens in sports is what happened to the Lakers.

[Rich Paul]

It was a bad time for a lockout for baseball coming off that World Series from last year.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. When things were hot.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, man.

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, the year before when the Dodgers beat the hell out of the Yankees, still New York and la, and then you have Toronto in la. You got two countries involved and they're big markets. Baseball could be. And baseball's on the uptick.

[Rich Paul]

Right. It just seemed like a bad time. They fixed some things. The pitch count, the clock, games were

[Max Kellerman]

being played faster, more stolen bases, enlarged the bases.

[Rich Paul]

But like All Star Weekend was pretty, pretty strong.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Tough time.

[Max Kellerman]

You're right. What do you think? So, like, so it leads to, it leads to the idea of a salary cap in sports, which I don't love. I, I don't, I don't love a salary cap.

[Rich Paul]

Well, coming from a. I mean, the, the, where I sit, we're hard cap. So I just.

[Max Kellerman]

Is it. Has the hard cap made the NBA better?

[Rich Paul]

Worse? No, not really. I, I mean, I don't know. Sometimes you can't. We're freshly into this thing, so sometimes you can't tell the impact just yet, but as of now, no. Has it made it a little annoying? Very much so, yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm a Yankees fan, Die hard. And the Dodgers are kicking the Yankees ass right now. And I'm not complaining about it, but I'm upset that my team is run by dumber people than the people who run the Dodgers. They are smarter, they are better at their jobs. They're dumber than the Dodgers. Cashman and Steinbrenner are competent. I'm not saying they are competent at their jobs, but as a Yankees fan, you expect the best, not merely competence. Whereas the Dodgers are more competitive, smarter, have better manipulated the financial system richer, like they're everything you want the ownership of your team to be. And that's why the Yankees are losing their place in the sports hierarchy in terms of like, the brand that you associate with. You know, the Yankees spent most of the 20th century as the number one team in all of sports.

[Rich Paul]

You should call the Yankees hotline and complain.

[Max Kellerman]

21st century, not as much.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying you should call now. I'll get the number for you in 2009. We're not going back there, Max.

[Max Kellerman]

To the middle of the table. They signed Mark Teixeira and Cece Sabathia when they were the blue chip of the blue chip and they won the World Series.

[Rich Paul]

They won the World Series.

[Max Kellerman]

The Dodgers do that every year. They make the trade, they trade the prospect. These other teams who are like, why would the Milwaukee brewers not trade for Skubal right now? They haven't been in the World Series since 1982. They have the most phenomenal pitcher in baseball, Misorowski, who's incredible. And they put Skubal with Misarowski. Maybe they could win the World Series. They didn't get it done. If I was a Brewers fan, I wouldn't be mad at the Dodgers. Dodgers didn't just pay scubal, they just made a better trade. I'd be mad at the brewers if I was a Brewers fan.

[Rich Paul]

All right.

[Max Kellerman]

Anyway, yeah, we can move on now.

[Rich Paul]

It's a lot of time on baseball. Lockouts coming.

[Max Kellerman]

Lockouts coming.

[Rich Paul]

100%.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

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[Max Kellerman]

A tech billionaire rich is in talks to buy a London team in the NBA's European expansion.

[Rich Paul]

Smart man.

[Max Kellerman]

What have you heard about the NBA in Europe?

[Rich Paul]

That the NBA is going to Europe. That's it. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Klutch isn't gonna have a team. You're not buying a.

[Rich Paul]

The rules don't allow that, Max. But no, what I've heard is there will be several teams in Europe. Obviously they're trying to figure out, I think the. Think the value of each team is now being valued at somewhere between 500 million and a billion dollars.

[Max Kellerman]

Sounds like a deal actually right now, doesn't it?

[Rich Paul]

Especially for. I think the London team is probably equivalent to the New York Knicks.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. That's a $10 billion franchise, potentially.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I do. The reason.

[Max Kellerman]

Let's put a few dollars together. I'd like to make a bid on a.

[Rich Paul]

The reason why I like it is because, you know, there's a lot of guys that are currently not in the NBA that are professional players, high level professional players, but it's just not enough roster spots. It's not enough opportunity and things of that nature. So a lot of guys get kind of boxed out. And so I do think NBA Europe will be great and lucrative. The ability to grow, the awareness of the game. I think, you know, young people will. Now you're able to start from a team's origin and its existence from a fan base perspective.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, you can get in on the ground floor as a fan. Look, is there going to be an expansion draft? Like each team can only protect so many of their players and the rest can be.

[Rich Paul]

They haven't briefed us on anything like that. I think they'll. The salary cap would be lower. I don't think you'll see guys making 60, $70 million over there, but you could maybe. The max salary would be maybe 10, I imagine.

[Max Kellerman]

See, the other thing about the NBA, and this is something, you're right, 500 million to a billion for a London franchise is like the best deal in business right now. The thing about the NBA, wherever soccer has roots, which is basically global. Yeah, it's global, but wherever you go. And soccer, they're crazy about soccer. Basketball will eventually take over 100%.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Because basketball is simply an improved version of soccer. It's an evolved version of soccer. So if it's basically the same sport, one with the feet, one with the hands, if people are crazy about soccer in England. The NBA's a no brainer.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, well, people are crazy about soccer everywhere.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, not in the United States really,

[Rich Paul]

but we as Americans think that United States is everywhere. It's not.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but. Right, but what I'm saying is harder for soccer to penetrate the US Market. Of course, yes, because it already has the NBA than for the NBA to penetrate a market that already has soccer.

[Rich Paul]

But that's not why, Max. That's not the only reason why. And by the way, soccer is ripe for the awareness of strategy or the awareness game to be positioned. The reason why I can speak for the kids in my community, we didn't play soccer. One, we thought it was kind of like a upper middle class type of sport, a rich sport. That's number one. The second thing is we didn't have any examples of success. That was a soccer. Like if we could have saw what we saw with the boxer or with the football player, basketball player, you know, when Mike Tyson drove his Porsche down to Forest hill pool in 1988, you know, you want to be a boxer. Or when you know, whether it was Charles Oakley, you know, or anybody from in Cleveland that we were able to see successfully. And then, you know, you saw watch basketball games, you saw magic and Bird and Jordan, so on and so forth. It made you want to play those sports. The primary sports was basketball, football and baseball. But when you really think about it, you don't need much to play soccer. You don't even need shoes, you don't even need a net. You could just draw a thing on the brick wall and that could be the goal. And there's a lot of. We talked about this before. A lot of kids are playing a sport and it's like trying to force a shoe on. Right. I'm five nine, I play basketball thinking I'll be an NBA player. The reality was I was never going to be an NBA player.

[Max Kellerman]

But soccer doesn't select out for size.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly. So but I didn't know I. Soccer wasn't even on my radar.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. So soccer will get in this country as it expands, it'll get more regular sized humans playing it.

[Rich Paul]

I did like the Cleveland will go

[Max Kellerman]

to basketball and football, but just because

[Rich Paul]

I like their logo. I thought it was cool too.

[Max Kellerman]

What you're saying obviously is true, but it's also that like baseball is hard to expand at a certain point once it enters. You know, before there was like football and basketball were really big in this country. Baseball's running unopposed. But once like football and basketball are Both the next evolution of soccer, football is intelligent design. Deans of the Ivy League school said, no one's watching these soccer matches. Let's change the rules to make it more consumer friendly. And they essentially invented what we know as modern football in this country. So that's actually people sitting down, smart people going, let's make this better. That's why you have the NFL. Basketball is kind of the natural evolution of soccer. It's like monkey to man. You're just creating a better sport. They're basically the same. But basketball's an improvement on soccer.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, there's a very. But there's a goal.

[Max Kellerman]

There's no goaltender. The goal is in the air. It's satisfying even to bounce the ball. Right. It's a small. You don't need as much space for it, et cetera, et cetera. It's more athletic.

[Rich Paul]

But Max, again, just talking about NBA Europe, the thing, I love the idea of it and I think where they put in the teams at will be pretty cool from a global awareness perspective.

[Max Kellerman]

So where are they putting them?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know all the locations, but I do know London. I think Manchester was one. I think Paris was another one.

[Max Kellerman]

Are NBA teams going to go over there to play these games?

[Rich Paul]

I mean, I imagine you're going to have. They already do it. You go to Abu Dhabi, you go to London games, you, you know, we played in China for several years. Mexico City, you play. So I imagine so.

[Max Kellerman]

But the advantage there is. It's more like, like here. Just because there's a team in Canada, it's never really USA versus Canada. A couple teams in Canada. It there one team in Canada? Well, in the NBA. And baseball. Well, yeah, that's true. Baseball doesn't have the Expos anymore, right?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. So it's Vancouver. It used to have Toronto.

[Max Kellerman]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

But you had the Expos and you had.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but now it's one. You're right. But Europe, because it's, you know, these, these, these nation states, they're not just states like under a federal government like us, they're each individual nation states. The rivalries are ratcheted up. So if you have Paris versus London.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

And Spain has a team and this is Barcelona.

[Rich Paul]

If you have a team, you're playing

[Max Kellerman]

on nationalism too, in a way. You're not here.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it's, you know, I don't know. Do you put a team in Greece? But here's the slippery slope with all of that. We know our international players don't really want to play in America. You know, they Would much rather play closer to home.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

So the slippery slope with that is fast forward. If Paris has a team and Wemby's coming out, does Wemby want to play in America? Do we want to play in Paris?

[Max Kellerman]

So then the Paris team will get strong.

[Rich Paul]

But not necessarily because it's a. Because NBA Europe and the NBA are two different things. So.

[Max Kellerman]

But it's okay. There's just global. You know, increasingly competition is global, but

[Rich Paul]

the finances are different. At least to start out. The NBA is way down the road in terms of its existence and the footing and the foundation. It's very, you know, stern. Where NBA Europe would just be the soft bottoms NBA Europe have on soft bottom shoes.

[Max Kellerman]

But eventually, when it gets more mature.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, that can be years from now, though.

[Max Kellerman]

But 15 years from now, you can have not just the finals, but NBA Europe. Finals, NBA Finals. And then you have a world championship. Actually a championship of the world.

[Rich Paul]

Here's the thing about it. That's pretty.

[Max Kellerman]

It's bonanza.

[Rich Paul]

Here's the thing about it. It's pretty exciting. And hopefully. And again, I haven't had these conversations, but hopefully you have the international rules. And if you do, that means a high school American kid can go right to NBA Europe and play. And if I'm a high school American kid, when you talk about just awareness, global awareness, being able to really build cartel market, that's now that is.

[Max Kellerman]

So you'll wind up with clients probably that you advise you should go. 1000% market.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, forget nil. I'm going to NBA Europe. Absolutely. Yeah. 1,000%. Why would.

[Max Kellerman]

That's exciting.

[Rich Paul]

Because by the way, the way the shoe deals work, you have a North American budget and then you have an international budget. If I'm a real. If I'm not able to compete at a level in the NBA in America, but I can go over there as a. What would be a college freshman. But I'm fresh out of high school and I'm able to really have a real opportunity and build right there. I may build right there and stay there.

[Max Kellerman]

You know how like basketball players, they. They're using their hands, not their feet, but they have shoe deals. Wonder if there could be like glove deals for soccer players. Can't use your hands, get a glove deal. Isn't that the equivalent no deal?

[Rich Paul]

No. If you're a go. If you're a goalie, you can probably have that. But just think about.

[Max Kellerman]

I wonder, do goalies have glove deals?

[Rich Paul]

I imagine they do. Yeah. But just. But just. I mean. Or maybe whatever. Whatever the shoe company is of your team. Sponsored. You probably have to wear those gloves. But I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. But. But I do. The. The future is bright with NBA Europe. I think it could be a lot of cool things, but those franchises are very, very, very valuable to me. Now, they may be a little overpriced right now to some people's.

[Max Kellerman]

Half a billion for a London franchise. Where the country is. First of all, they're obsessed with soccer. But secondly, there are a lot of British fans who are interested in basketball.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, there's.

[Max Kellerman]

You saw it with the Knicks. A lot of British fans were like, were super interested in what's going on with the Knicks.

[Rich Paul]

19 million fans that aren't being been their appetites isn't being fed.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to wake up at weird times to see the game.

[Rich Paul]

So imagine that. And here's the other thing. If I'm a young person and I get to live in one of these cities internationally, what that does for my life experience.

[Max Kellerman]

Kobe Bryant.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly. But now. But I'm making the real money, different money and I'm hopping over to. I mean, no offense, but I'm not. I'm not going to a hookah lounge and I'm going to Croatia. I'm going to Istanbul. I'm going to Barcelona, Madrid, Mallorca. I'm going to those places. I'm going to Greece and it's a

[Max Kellerman]

hop, skip and a jump for the weekend.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

We got in Europe. Going there is like flying from New York to la.

[Rich Paul]

Absolutely.

[Max Kellerman]

Not even flying. It's New York to Chicago.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, I'm going there first.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes. Dean, we have a question in the front row.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Should the NBA go to Europe before the NFL? Who really deserves it? Who has the bigger market space?

[Rich Paul]

I think the NBA should.

[Max Kellerman]

Before the NFL.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. I think there's more. There's going to be more of a natural appetite for basketball globally than football.

[Rich Paul]

Now the NFL is doing a great job of going to Europe and they're sprinkling.

[Max Kellerman]

But football's a hard game to understand. Yes. The rules are what's called Byzantine. They're. There's a lot of them. They're complex. They get very specific to all these specific circumstances. Whereas basketball, if you know soccer and you watch basketball, you know what you're watching more or less and vice versa. There's a goal. There's a bunch of guys on each team. You're trying to get the ball and the goal.

[Rich Paul]

Max. Do you know if I was an NBA Europe Player. How I would dress. It's going to be unbelievable how you dress. Oh, my God. I mean, I would go crazy.

[Max Kellerman]

Why? Especially if it was NBA Europe.

[Rich Paul]

It just gives you a dip in London. It just gives you a. I'm going on

[Max Kellerman]

a hype and a monocle.

[Rich Paul]

No, it just gives you a different vibe. You know, the seasons, it's. I mean, you're going on Seville Row. I went there one time to get stitched up. It's great. I could just sit in there and watch the Taylor do his custom shoes, everything. Oh, man, Galleries.

[Max Kellerman]

You knew someone with some juice. England, you could really have a good time over there.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, you can catch the train to Paris. I mean, listen, I think it's great. So I'm excited about it and I'm. The thing I'm most excited for, though, Max, is some of these young players that are really trending in the right direction but can't get an opportunity in the NBA to have an opportunity there.

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[Max Kellerman]

If only you had a platform where you could address everyone talking about LeBron ring chasing.

[Rich Paul]

Can you think of good thing? I do.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Oh, you do?

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you think about all this? People saying ring Jason.

[Rich Paul]

Who is people? It's all over. You gotta get specific. We talked about this before. Who is people?

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, here's the honest story. I get a lot of my information nowadays scrolling through reels. Right?

[Rich Paul]

Okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Like in terms of. In terms of the media I'm consuming. So some of it's coming from reputable places. It could be coming from ESPN or Fox or whatever, you know, like whoever. Some of it's coming from popular podcasts. Some of it's coming from, like, fans who get. Who Wind up with, you know, who wind up with accounts. Who People like on social media that get popular because they have interesting things to say or they have a good way of presenting it. I can't always tell you like the who, but I know on my reels, look, it's everywhere, right? LeBron's ring chasing, right?

[Rich Paul]

I think it's somewhere in the algorithm somebody said, hey, if you speak negatively about LeBron, people are going to pay attention to you. I think that somewhere is in the manual of social media, somewhere for people. But criticism or critique is always welcome. But there's another level. But in addition to that, I also think, like, just in life in general, and I spoke about this before, I don't know how you def. Defining ring chasing, okay? Because first of all, he has four rings, right? However many gold medals and all the records in the NBA. So I don't know what ring chasing does for him in this regard. Like, if you want to. If you're saying he's ring chasing with a negative connotation, there's nothing else. LeBron has had 1, 2, 3, 4. He's had four careers in one, right? So if you just take his first seven years in Cleveland, he's arguably a Hall of Famer. Seven years. First seven years. If you take the four years in Miami and the four years in. If you just take the four years in Miami, he's also a Hall of Famer.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree. Although not technically because you need more years, but.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, yeah, but body of work. He's a Hall of Famer. Then if you take the four years in Cleveland, he's a Hall of Famer again, right? And if you take the eight years in la, he's also a Hall of Famer because in his eight years in la, he has one championship, went to the Western Conference finals, had some good seasons, whatever, but has the same as many championships as Giannis, as Joker, as Shay, as Jayson Tatum and Jalen Brown, as.

[Max Kellerman]

And spent roughly the same number of years as the best player in the game as them, even in la.

[Rich Paul]

So I think, you know, you see peers, they have a list and they may leave them off purposely because for whatever reason, and that's just their opinion. What list? Top five. All, like, they're all time list. But everyone's, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I do agree with that. Like, you can't get mad at somebody for having their opinion.

[Max Kellerman]

I disagree. It should just be whatever I say.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, fine. But I'm saying you're talking about top five players of all Time. No, you have.

[Max Kellerman]

There's no real list that doesn't have LeBron in the top.

[Rich Paul]

We understand that, but it's still their opinion, no problem. But then you get to a whole nother space.

[Max Kellerman]

So you. There's no real list that I'm trying to think. Could you possibly put together a list

[Rich Paul]

in no position that doesn't have LeBron

[Max Kellerman]

in the top three?

[Rich Paul]

No, I don't see it.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't. Not if you want to be taken seriously.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

I mean, look, that's why you can't.

[Max Kellerman]

You could say, oh, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. But if you want to be taken seriously, you can't have LeBron not in the top.

[Rich Paul]

But that's why you can't take it seriously. Serious. Which I don't. The other thing is, I would say in terms of ring chasing, now, getting back to the ring chasing piece of it, I just try to identify what. What do you mean by that? Because if you're saying, if you're punishing him or critiquing him for wanting to be competitive and having a real chance of winning, then that actually says a lot about you, because what else you supposed to do, right? The man's. He's. He's. He's playing on a minimum contract. He wants to win now. When he. Now.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, he wants to play basketball.

[Rich Paul]

But here's what I'm saying.

[Max Kellerman]

When you.

[Rich Paul]

You know, and it doesn't guarantee you a championship, but what I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. Because when he opts out and then opts back in for the same money for letting and allow you to do same thing Draymond just did, allow the team to say, hey, let's see. What. What could take place. If nothing can't take place, then I'll pay for my same money. Or I was always. I've been very out front with him that I don't think you should ever take a penny less. I didn't think he should have took a penny less when he went to Miami the first time. No chance.

[Max Kellerman]

The haircut.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. No. So that's just me, though, for a number of different reasons. But at the end of the day, the ring chasing piece, again, it just confuses me because.

[Max Kellerman]

Okay, look, look, he has rings. Here's the ring chasing. And the funny thing is, and now people are finally putting reels out about this, about Barkley. But I've always thought this.

[Rich Paul]

I give Barkley.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no, wait. Charles Barkley hadn't won a championship. He's one of the best players in the league. He was barely like he was. He was in a group with Magic and Bird, but he hadn't won a championship. Magic, Bird, Isaiah and Barkley and. And Hakeem were all like. There was Jordan and then there was that tier of guys who were all. You could rank them. Probably it was Bird and Magic and Hakeem a little bit above Barkley and Isaiah. But Barkley really was like one of those guys.

[Rich Paul]

He was a real guy.

[Max Kellerman]

But he was the only one who didn't have a ring. Like Carl Malone was not in that group. Barkley was. And so Barkley had, toward the end of his career, got himself out of Philly and went to.

[Rich Paul]

That wasn't towards the end.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, no, no, but it was. Okay, fine.

[Rich Paul]

That wasn't towards the end.

[Max Kellerman]

Not toward the end.

[Rich Paul]

But Houston was towards the end.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. Phoenix, he was still the great Charles Barton.

[Rich Paul]

He was mvp, but he was still

[Max Kellerman]

very good when he got himself out of Phoenix and wound up. Because I said out of Philly, but he wound up eventually on Houston and he wound up on Houston right after they won the championship.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, that was.

[Max Kellerman]

He was joining a Hakeem Clyde team. He was joining five slammer jama.

[Rich Paul]

As you know, in the pros, I'm a maybe fly slammer walker.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

It wasn't no fi. Slam jama.

[Max Kellerman]

No, not jama. But the point was they were. They were champions. Right. Like he was trying to. And the thinking at the time was, look, Houston had just gone back to back. Now MJ came back and Houston loaded it up to the sky.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Couldn't get over mj. So Barkley's.

[Rich Paul]

They didn't have the play against the Bulls. They didn't make it.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. They didn't even make it that far. So Barkley, who is one of my all time. I think Barkley is the best person in media, period. Like myself and everybody included. He's the guy. He's the most entertaining conference, had the best signature shoe. Like he. Barkley's incredible. But about this he's being hypocritical because when he has said it, because he did the exact same thing. Now, was he ring chasing? Yes, of course he was. He wanted to win more rings.

[Rich Paul]

But he didn't have a ring.

[Max Kellerman]

He didn't have a ring?

[Commercial Announcer]

No.

[Rich Paul]

He didn't want to win WAR rings.

[Max Kellerman]

He would have went a ring. But here's the thing about LeBron. Do I think he's ring chasing? Yes, I do. That doesn't mean he gave himself. He didn't Join the Knicks or the Spurs. Right. Because then you could say he's kind of doing what KD did in Golden State, which I think.

[Rich Paul]

I don't care what he did, but

[Max Kellerman]

to me, that's a step too far. If you join a team where once you join, there's no chance they can lose. That's not the same.

[Rich Paul]

That's not necessarily true. He's 41 years old. You could say that if he was 26.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm talking about K.D. now. I'm talking about KD now.

[Rich Paul]

We're not talking about KD now.

[Max Kellerman]

But what I'm saying is, if you do that, using KD as an example, where if you add you to a situation, no one in the world would pick against you, like LeBron back then had Kyrie and Kevin Love, and we all knew he had no shot against that team. 73 wins. You barely scraped by those guys. You add KD, it's over. That's not what LeBron is doing here. I'm making a distinction between those two things. Yes, but he loves playing basketball still. Obviously, he loves playing basketball. What's he supposed to do? Once you stop, it's over forever. You don't want to stop. So should he put himself in a situation where he has no chance to win a championship? No. So.

[Rich Paul]

But ring chasing can't. Ring chasing cannot be aligned with someone that already has rings.

[Max Kellerman]

I disagree. How? Because how you chasing. The point I'm trying to make, Maybe I'm not making it well, but the point I'm trying to make is LeBron loves playing basketball. He. If you love playing basketball, you would like to compete for a championship. You don't want to be in a situation where no matter what you do, you can't win a champion.

[Rich Paul]

So you, Shaq, said it best. You're continuing to be on a quest for more rings. That's the difference between a chase and a quest. Continuous.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you're saying. Because when you say ring chasing, just

[Rich Paul]

like you said, I'm chasing money and I'm a billionaire already, what you mean.

[Max Kellerman]

But are you saying. Because when people say ring chasing, it suggests you're stacking the deck in an unfair way.

[Rich Paul]

Well, how could it be unfair when no one was talking about the Philadelphia 76ers? Nobody. There was nobody talking about the Philadelphia 6.

[Max Kellerman]

What I'm saying is, I think there should be. I think it's. I think technically you are ring chasing. But why wouldn't you. I'm not. But everyone's chasing a ring.

[Rich Paul]

Like, why would you pushing Back on somebody saying that he's ring chasing or if. Or the fact that if he was ring chasing. What I'm pushing back on is the connotation that they say it with. It would be a difference if he didn't have a ring. Not two, not three, not four, but just one. Okay. And by the way, I don't fault anybody. Whether it was T. Mac when he was in San Antonio, whether it was Gary Payton when he went to the Heat, whether it was Charles Barkley. I wish Grant Hill had a ring. I like to see the legends of the game who gave everything to the game win a ring.

[Max Kellerman]

But it's different with LeBron, Rich. And this is to his credit. When Karl Malone went to the Lakers, he was still a good player, but he was no longer a great player. LeBron is still a great player.

[Rich Paul]

So.

[Max Kellerman]

So that. So that he's not. Gary Payton was no longer a great player. He's still a good player.

[Rich Paul]

Gary Payton was pretty good on the Heat.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, he was good on the Heat, but he wasn't Gary Payton from.

[Rich Paul]

No, of course not. Who is?

[Max Kellerman]

So LeBron is falling from a greater height than those guys on his way down. He's. He's better than they were on their way down.

[Rich Paul]

I always said his floor was Karl Malone at his best.

[Max Kellerman]

So it feels different because he's not like, hey, I'm going to join a team as a role player who might help you get over the top. He's joining a team as a giant piece of what makes that team good. Right? Like, that's to his credit. He is, what I'm saying is not his floor.

[Rich Paul]

But if he. What I would always say, if he wanted to just take all the sizzle out of his basketball game and just played a very simple pick and roll, pick and pop. I was like, that's going to be Karl Malone.

[Max Kellerman]

Let me tell you something. LeBron James, this past year in the playoffs, so, like, when he needed to be at his best, was better than Karl Malone ever was a day in his life in the NBA this past year.

[Rich Paul]

But we're saying the same thing, and that's respectful.

[Max Kellerman]

And Karl Malone was way up there. But LeBron is still really. So what I'm saying is, Rich, it is a testament to his own greatness that it's not really possible. So I'll give you an example from boxing, okay. How it's kind of unfair, but it's still true. Tyson Fury used to be the heavyweight champion of the world. He knows himself really well. He knows that he is not the kind of guy who's going to get out of bed and train every day unless he has a fight scheduled. Right. Very few Kobe Bryants in the world who will do that no matter what. So knowing that, he's like, I need a little in between fight. I'm not trying to lose, I just need to a fight to stay active with. So he takes a fight who's like 46 years old and he puts it off TV. He's like, I'm not trying to sell this to you as a big event. I just need a deadline to help me get out of bed and get to the gym so I could stay sharp. And then he gets criticized for fighting this old guy and not even putting it on tv. In other words, he's trying to do the right thing by himself, be responsible for himself. But because he's such a giant character, there's no way to do it without. Without like kind of pissing people off. I'll give you another one. Oleksandr Usyk is the heavyweight champion of the world, but he knows he's past his prime and he's like, he's. What he's saying is, look, I still wanna fight and I wanna make big events with older guys from my era, but I'm the heavyweight champion, but I'll give up all my belts, let other people. Let other people fight for belts and stuff. I just wanna pursue my career. And people are like, you can't really do that because you're the champ, you've never lost. So whoever you fight, that's really for the title. LeBron is kind of in that position where he's. His impact, his effect on things is so large that even when he's doing right by himself, it's still having a giant effect on the league. And people saying ring chasing are commenting on that. Really?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, look, that's. Again, the ring chasing piece again is. I'm not upset, I don't get upset. Anyway, if they want to say that, fine, but I just kind of disagree with the connotation because what else are you supposed to do in life?

[Max Kellerman]

Every player in the league should be chasing a ring every year.

[Rich Paul]

Of course. But again, chasing when I already have is a different thing. But do I want more rings? Do I want to win? Yes. The rings come with the win. Because it's either going to be ring chasing or it's the other thing. The other thing of. Well, if you ask somebody, well, why do you not consider LeBron this way? Oh, well, you know, it's because he always switched teams. What?

[Max Kellerman]

I don't understand that criticism.

[Rich Paul]

Me either. But this is what people talk about. Not that. What do you mean?

[Max Kellerman]

He always, I think the closest he came.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, he didn't stay on one team like this person. They also have different names on their birth certificates. Who cares?

[Max Kellerman]

The closest thing LeBron ever did to being anti competitive was the Heat situation. Because even though they didn't win all four, but at the time, two of the best four players in the world in their primes getting together on the same team and adding another high level all stars to a Pat Riley team, it rubbed people the wrong way. And when they said not two, not three, not four, what it was reflecting was the confidence they felt by all being together. And the rest of the league felt the same way. Like how are you going to beat them?

[Rich Paul]

How was that different between Boston Celtics confidence when they got Ray Allen and Kevin Eagle?

[Max Kellerman]

Because those three guys weren't as good as the other three. What Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce are have less value on a basketball court combined than LeBron James, Dwyane Wade in their primes and Chris Bosh. Yeah, but you got, and by the way, not that close, but you got

[Rich Paul]

one heavy, heavy head. One.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, I can't say. Hold on, hold on. Let me just say.

[Rich Paul]

I was going to say if you

[Max Kellerman]

have Kevin Garnett as your centerpiece, you can't ever say it's not close because Garnett was an all time great. However, Garnett may be a tick past his prime. All three of those guys may be a tick past their primes.

[Rich Paul]

Let me ask you another question. Can you name a championship team that did not have somewhere between two plus really, really, really juggernaut of talents on the team dating back to the 80s? Start with the Boston Celtics,

[Max Kellerman]

Bird and McHale and Parish and Dennis Johnson and. Yeah, But Bird and McHale were the two big Lakers. Lakers had three. Right. When James Worthy came around, as you know, Byron Scott, they had a lot of good players.

[Rich Paul]

But you said juggernauts.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Let's go to the Pistons.

[Max Kellerman]

When they acquired Aguirre especially that was like oof.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, now let's go to the Bulls,

[Max Kellerman]

Jordan and Pippen and later they got Robin. Horace Grant was a really good player earlier on.

[Rich Paul]

You just gonna forget Tony Kukoch.

[Max Kellerman]

Tony Kukoch later on. Sure. But again you're saying juggernaut players.

[Rich Paul]

No, I'm saying two plus. I said two, two plus all.

[Max Kellerman]

There's no such thing.

[Rich Paul]

However,

[Max Kellerman]

usually it's not. It's not two of the best five players in the world at their best.

[Rich Paul]

Let me ask you this question.

[Max Kellerman]

Usually, sometimes it is, who was the

[Rich Paul]

start and center for the Miami Heat when they won their first championship?

[Max Kellerman]

That's a great question. I mean, Bosh was their stretch four. Oh, it was Haslam.

[Rich Paul]

Nope.

[Max Kellerman]

Who was starting.

[Rich Paul]

He might have started later on, but they had all type of. They couldn't figure it out. They had Joel Anthony, who was an undersized big. They had Eric Dampier, who was at the end of his career. Respectfully, Birdman.

[Max Kellerman]

Respectfully. If you have LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh back then, Dean could start at center. You're going to win a lot of games.

[Rich Paul]

But that's coming from somebody that don't play basketball. That's not true. Do you know how hard it is? Especially back then? And I'm not making an excuse for the Heat, but you can't you. If. If I'm an athlete and I'm drafted to a team, I cannot make the team and play the game. I have to lean on somebody.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Michael Jordan didn't have to worry about who came in his locker room because Jerry Krause was a hell of a general manager.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

Right. Magic Johnson didn't have to worry. You know why? Because Jerry west was a hell of an executive. Tim Duncan did not have to worry.

[Max Kellerman]

The argument you're making is R.C.

[Rich Paul]

buford was a hell of a executive.

[Max Kellerman]

Argument you're making is the argument that I have often made defending LeBron.

[Rich Paul]

I'm not defending.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm just talking about from this criticism, which is the closest he ever came to being anti competitive was what I said is forming the Big Three in Miami. However, to be fair, anytime you look at a championship winner in the NBA, almost without exception, when you look at the roster, it looks like an unfair roster. So you're right. Ultimately, what they created in Miami looks a lot like most championship teams. But it was not an especially impossible to beat championship team. And the proof is out of four years, they won.

[Rich Paul]

But you would have said the same thing had he chose to go to the Bulls. When you go back to those teams that you're talking about when you executive, talent and coach. Who was the coach for the Celtics teams when they won?

[Max Kellerman]

What's his name? Casey Jones.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. Who was the coach for the Lakers?

[Max Kellerman]

Pat Riley.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. What about the Bulls? Phil Jackson.

[Max Kellerman]

Phil Jackson.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. Right. When the Bull. When it was Bulls got a break.

[Max Kellerman]

You had me thinking of executives. I wanted to say Red Auerbach.

[Rich Paul]

And it was Jerry Krause.

[Max Kellerman]

And Jerry Krause.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. It was Casey Jones. It was Pat Riley And Jerry West.

[Max Kellerman]

And Phil Jackson.

[Rich Paul]

And Phil Jackson. It was. I don't know who the. Who the Rockets was, but they had Rudy Tomjanovich. I don't know who their. Who their executive was. I don't. I don't remember.

[Max Kellerman]

Me neither.

[Rich Paul]

But then you go back to Jerry west again and. And Phil Jackson. So in LeBron's case, and no offense to any of his executives and coaches,

[Max Kellerman]

but, like, they didn't have that in Cleveland.

[Rich Paul]

Well, Paul Silas didn't. Didn't. He didn't get a long enough tenure.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Right.

[Rich Paul]

Paul Silas. Paul Silas was a hell of a coach for. For. For LeBron. He just didn't have the talent, but he was a hell of a coach for LeBron.

[Max Kellerman]

Here's the thing, Rich. I agree with what you're saying. I think this is all correct. Like, in the end, you can have. I think there are arguments on different sides of it, but then there's a winning argument. I think you're making the winning argument.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but I'm not just speaking for LeBron.

[Max Kellerman]

No, no. You're saying just generally. No, no athletes, period. What is inescapable is LeBron had to be, in a way, because he didn't have that, his own gm. And so. But with that comes. When you combine those two things together, the player and the talent, evaluator, slash, gm, there comes criticism with it, and that's unavoidable.

[Rich Paul]

Yes, but here's what I'm saying. Forget the criticism. Criticism comes with anything, with life. That's fine. They talked about Jesus. What I'm telling you is, at the end of the day, you cannot fault somebody for having the talent level and the production that equals value add anywhere. Anywhere. Don't matter where you play. Anywhere. If you just unplug them and place them on the 14 warriors, they win. Unplug them and place them on. Clearly, the James Harden Rockets, they also win. Unplug them and place them on.

[Max Kellerman]

If you put LeBron James on a very good team now, they're a great team, right? Of course.

[Rich Paul]

Place them on the Indiana Pacers with Paul George and Roy Hibbert. They win.

[Max Kellerman]

Yes, yes. So everywhere you name, they get at least one championship.

[Rich Paul]

So what I'm trying to explain to you is when you're saying he never became the gm, that wasn't the case.

[Max Kellerman]

No. His own gm.

[Rich Paul]

Exactly. Because I have other things on the line. I have a signature shoe, I have brand partners, I have My goals I set for myself and wanting to win. Because if I just sit here and sit in it. Here's the other thing, people.

[Max Kellerman]

So wait. The argument you're really making is LeBron, with a good GM, is going to have at least as many rings as he has right now. The fact that he wasn't in the same position as Jordan or Magic or Bird means that he had to be his own GM to find the place where he could be competitive. And it's not his fault that he is so good that anywhere he goes that looks competitive will start to feel unfair to people because he turns them into a championship roster.

[Rich Paul]

And.

[Max Kellerman]

And every championship roster, when you analyze it, looks unfair on paper. That's how they won the championship.

[Rich Paul]

Because the other thing is people will say, oh, well, you know, he didn't sit through the rough times. What you're talking about. There were seven years.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, right.

[Rich Paul]

What do you mean, didn't sit through the rough times? Last time I checked, if you were born and you lived in the projects, the first moment you had to move, you moved.

[Max Kellerman]

I would say this. I would say some of the criticism is not monolithic. It's not like all coming from one place or one kind of person. No, some of it comes from the kind of person who thinks an athlete should stay in their place. Right. And you have to suffer through a bad GM and you just say, you know, shut up and dribble type stuff. Right.

[Rich Paul]

Okay. Part of that is you're hitting the nail on the head. Max, you're cooking. Go ahead.

[Max Kellerman]

You know, part of that. That's one group. But that's not the only group.

[Rich Paul]

I agree.

[Max Kellerman]

There are other groups of people who want to defend the. Their idols. Right. If they grew up with loving Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan or Larry Bird or Magic Johnson, LeBron doesn't belong to them the same way. So. So. But his success, they feel, is a kind of an attack on their guy. So that's part of where the criticism is.

[Rich Paul]

But I grew up watching Michael Jordan. I didn't grow up watching LeBron. I was a grown man.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, but you're in. Fully in business with LeBron.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Of course.

[Rich Paul]

But what I'm saying is I grew up watching the greats way before LeBron was ever even considered.

[Max Kellerman]

No, but what I'm saying is this is where the criticism is coming from. But I think, Rich, there's also. So I agree with that. But I do think there is also just legitimate. I don't know if you wanna call it criticism analysis. I like that part saying like, and I don't feel this is the case in Cleveland, and I didn't feel it was the case in LA at all. But even getting AD there, you have to play with somebody. You don't. No one does it all by themselves. The closest he has come to it, which I don't think was over the line. I thought KD on the warriors was over the line in terms of being anti competitive. But the closest LeBron has come to it is the Miami situation. If you go back and really think about Dwyane Wade, had had the best finals of anyone between, like Michael Jordan

[Rich Paul]

four years prior at True.

[Max Kellerman]

But he was still a great player and like one of the three or four best in the game. And LeBron was probably already the best in the game. At worst, the second or third, but probably the best. And those two are on the same team. And they brought in Bosh. That's the closest he has walked up to the point where you go, come on, dude, you're stacking the deck in an unfair way. What I will say is it turned out it was not in an unfair way. And the spurs knocked them out twice.

[Rich Paul]

So let me ask.

[Max Kellerman]

You have to be really, really good to win a championship.

[Rich Paul]

No, the spurs beat him once. Dallas.

[Max Kellerman]

Dallas, right. Dallas beat him.

[Rich Paul]

But let me ask you this question. If I'm a music, a musician, right? I'm an artist. I'm making an album. I need producers and I want features.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

How do I approach making my album? I'm a very. I'm the best guy in the game. I'm the best artist in the game, I'm the best rapper, whatever you want to call it. How do I approach making my album?

[Max Kellerman]

You want to work with the best people?

[Rich Paul]

Okay, we can move on.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't think it's that easy. I don't think it's that simple. From a team's point of view, that is true. From a player's point of view, part of what you're demonstrating. And I don't think this applies to LeBron. And by the way, KD is one of my favorite players, but I do think it applies to him. In the case of the warriors, from the player's point of view, if you put yourself in a position where you cannot lose, we already know you're a great player. That's impossible. We already know you're a great player. That's why. And we know you're one of the most excellent players who's ever lived. That's why we're interested in seeing what you do. If you go to one of the most excellent teams ever already and you're one of the most excellent players ever and the moment you join that team, not a person in the world will pick against you. You don't prove the same thing by winning a championship and you don't prove the same thing.

[Rich Paul]

But that's impossible, Max, because no one said it about Kobe and Shaq. When they added Gary Payton and Karl Malone.

[Max Kellerman]

They did. I didn't think they were going to win. Gary Payton and Karl Malone weren't what they. I picked the Detroit Pistons to sweep them.

[Rich Paul]

Most people thought they were going to win based upon the names on the back of the jerseys. And that was not true.

[Max Kellerman]

But that's a difference between that and what KD did in Golden State. Those weren't names on the back of the jerseys. Those guys were in their primes. They just won 73 games.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, and kudos to KD. He made the choice he want to make. Like you looking at it because it's sports and that's your opinion. But at the end of the day, again, you can say you don't like it, but you can't knock it.

[Max Kellerman]

I thought kd, Look, I'm not saying other people don't have a legitimate point of view here. I think KD was very bold, showed a lot of guts when he left and went to the Nets because he went to basically a jinxed franchise in New York and tried to do what LeBron did in Miami. It didn't work out, but I thought that showed real competitiveness. Attempt something big that wasn't guaranteed.

[Rich Paul]

What allowed that? What allowed that big attempt?

[Max Kellerman]

The fact that he's a free agent?

[Rich Paul]

No. The fact that he was a two time champion?

[Max Kellerman]

Well, no. He could have done whatever he wanted if he's a free agent, whether or not he's a champion.

[Rich Paul]

But he was a two time champion. So even if he fails.

[Max Kellerman]

Rich, what I just said was, I'm not saying that other points of view other than my own aren't legitimate. I see the point where you say, look, if everyone's saying the guy never won a championship so he's not considered, at least with Magic and Burden, those guys, but talent wise, you can see he belongs there. He put that to bed by winning championships and then he struck out and tried to do it another way. Right. I understand that there's some wisdom in that. In the long run he may have made the right decision because the details will get lost over time.

[Rich Paul]

He definitely made the right decision for himself.

[Max Kellerman]

I don't think so. I don't think so.

[Rich Paul]

Wow.

[Max Kellerman]

He's a champion because he didn't prove by going to Golden State anything about being a champion.

[Rich Paul]

But prove to who?

[Max Kellerman]

To me or people like me who are thinking clearly about it?

[Rich Paul]

He don't owe you anything. He don't have to prove anything to you. Zero.

[Max Kellerman]

But I believe this is the way some people will always view it. And for good reason. I don't think. In other words, I think there is a truth to the matter.

[Rich Paul]

Okay, but let me ask you this question. When Kevin Durant goes into the hall of Fame, what would it say? Two time champion and gold medalist.

[Max Kellerman]

Sure.

[Rich Paul]

And, and, and, and, and so. And none of you don't have a vote, so it don't matter.

[Max Kellerman]

But I think that history. So here's what's interesting to me. History was not going to record him where he should have been recorded, which is higher than would have been otherwise without a champion. That is true. But I think history will still not record him where he should have been because of the way he got his championships. And my question is this. And this is why. I don't know what to make of it all, really. In the end, the reason he won't get the same credit for those two championships that like Hakeem would get for the two he won in Houston, even though I think KD is a greater player or a better player, is because I still don't know, based on his career, if he could do the thing that champions prove, which is our teams are about as good as each other's teams when you get to the finals. But my team has me. And therefore, because my team has me, we won. LeBron has proven that. Kobe has proven that. MJ has proven that. Bird has proven that. Magic has proven that. I don't think KD has proven that. Even though he was the best player on the team.

[Rich Paul]

Of course he proved it.

[Max Kellerman]

Those were not equal teams. Rich, did LeBron have a shot? He had Kyrie and Kevin Love. Did he have a shot against that Golden State team? Was there a way in hell you could beat that Golden State team? There was not a chance.

[Rich Paul]

I disagree with that.

[Max Kellerman]

Really? LeBron had a chance to win that. I thought LeBron should have been the MVP the first time they played. I thought he had the best series on either team. They got beaten in five games.

[Rich Paul]

Them people put their pants on just like you do as a man.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, let's move on. We're not going to agree with this. This episode is brought to you by Netflix the MLB at Field of Dreams returns Bryce Harper and the Philadelphia Phillies face Byron Buxton and the Minnesota Twins at the iconic Field of Dreams ballpark. The field is calling. Watch the MLB at Field of Dreams game live on Netflix. Thursday, August 13th at 7:30pm Eastern, 4:30pm Pacific. Did you see Wemby's signature shoe?

[Rich Paul]

No, I didn't.

[Max Kellerman]

So big men have had trouble trying to sell signature shoes. Can Wemby do it?

[Rich Paul]

That's always been the case. It depends on. It depends on price point. It depends on silhouette. It depends on storytelling. Look, I imagine.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you think a giant could sell shoes?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, it just depends. Again, it depends on. First of all, let's just be frank. Basketball shoes are not it today.

[Max Kellerman]

Right?

[Rich Paul]

Kids don't want to wear basketball shoes. Basketball shoes are no longer a lifestyle shoe. When we were growing up, when signature shoes were in their heyday, especially from a basketball perspective, the Barkleys. And by the way, there's only been a few ever, ever less than 10 signature basketball shoes that's actually sold.

[Max Kellerman]

Chuck Taylor's.

[Rich Paul]

Well, okay.

[Max Kellerman]

Jordans.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Kyrie's. Barkleys.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

KD's.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

Kobe's.

[Rich Paul]

Yes. Once he got to Nike, who am I missing?

[Max Kellerman]

Pennies, yes.

[Rich Paul]

LeBron's.

[Max Kellerman]

LeBron's, yes.

[Rich Paul]

AI, yes.

[Max Kellerman]

We're up to nine, and then the

[Rich Paul]

last one, you can bunch a bunch of. You can put a bunch of people in there. The thing about it is when people say, okay, I have a signature shoe. Great.

[Commercial Announcer]

How.

[Rich Paul]

How many? Silhouette. How many? First of all, you have the silhouette. How many colorways do you have? I got four colorways. Okay. How many units are they making of each colorway? Are they making 2,000 units, 500 units, 25,000 units. How many? That matters, right? Some guys got 27 colorways. I know for a fact, I've been in several meetings, especially for us with LJ, where he had 28 colorways at a $260 price point. What that means is you only have

[Max Kellerman]

to sell one shoe for each colorway and make a fortune.

[Rich Paul]

What that means is for. But for. The way you have to think about it is for a mom, for a mom with two boys, growing boys, to walk into a store and buy two pair of shoes, that's 520 plus the T shirt, something else. So that's a different dynamic. Now, if your price point is drinking

[Max Kellerman]

a tent that month, I mean, if

[Rich Paul]

your price point is $110 or $120, and it's, oh, we forgot John Morant. And. And he's more current now, but. And it's. And it's the dope silhouette and it's the dope colorways, which they call it energy colorways today that kids really gravitate to. I think Lamelo Ball also moves pretty decent units as well. He will now colors, price point, etc. So. But back when we were growing up, it was different, right? You had Mike, you had Barkley, you had Penny. Penny didn't have a Penny didn't have as many, but he had enough.

[Max Kellerman]

But also Penny getting hurt messed that up.

[Rich Paul]

But that's what I'm saying. Penny had some really dope ones. He probably had one that wasn't as cool, but was still dope. Pippen, Right. The ones that were supposed to be kgs was great. Chris Weber actually had one of the first $160 shoe price point shoes and then he went away for whatever reason. But I say all that to say the basketball shoe was not the basketball shoe of choice to play basketball in. That basketball shoe was a lifestyle shoe. You went to church, you went skating, you went to school, you went to the movies, you went to Geogre or Cedar Point. That was the shoe, right? And so today that's not the shoe.

[Max Kellerman]

Kids, what do you think's replaced it?

[Rich Paul]

Comfort. New balance for sure.

[Max Kellerman]

Running shoe. Where once upon a time, they're really walking shoes, but they're.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, but also comfort. Like when I did the 550 for New Balance, that's actually a low top basketball shoe. The 650 to James Worthy is the high top. The reason why I did that shoe was because of the nostalgia of it. Now, Teddy Aod, he also did it, which really sparked it. And then I did mine and it did really well. But I did it from a nostalgia perspective.

[Max Kellerman]

Are kids doing like. I don't know the answer to this. I know there's a trend like my daughters, like basically ugly old man shoes, if they're the right ones, are kind of stylish now. But like it is much more comfortable if I'm packing to go somewhere. It's much more comfortable to put on a running shoe or a walking shoe. But is that just cause we're old?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. No, that's the way it is today. Today you want cool and comfort, right? You don't want heavy, bulky, hard to

[Max Kellerman]

put on at all. Get those Barkleys on. You need three people to help you put them on.

[Rich Paul]

But back in the day. But back in the day, everything was simplified, right? And we followed trends. So you had Nautica, Tommy Polo, you Had Jordans, Barkleys, Griffeys, Dion's, etc. Many people don't know this, but actually New Balance was the first hundred dollar price point.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, we had, we did a show on this. Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

So going back to Wimby, can he sell shoes? Yeah, I think he can. He also has a different market. He's from Paris, so he's going to have supporters. It depends on where they sell ballet slippers. It depends on where they are marketing him most, where they're putting, where they're seeding the product and things of that nature. I think he'll have the support from

[Max Kellerman]

as long as he doesn't bump into Brunson. He'll be walking home barefooted. Brunson to take them right off the Texas region.

[Rich Paul]

And believe it or not, opposing players actually sell shoes in New York. LeBron used to do a New York shoe all the time.

[Max Kellerman]

Jordans were the most popular shoe in New York.

[Rich Paul]

The big apples, the TV taxis. You know, he debuted the, the, the graffitis in New York, I think before.

[Max Kellerman]

If you're a Knicks fan back then, what are you going to put on the Chris Childs? Well, it's also MJ's coming to town,

[Rich Paul]

but even currently right now, like it's, it'll be hard for anybody on the Knicks to sell his signature shoe. I don't think he would want that. I, I think he's, he's, he's, he's under a different umbrella, but it would still be.

[Max Kellerman]

Speaking of Brunson, did you see the video of him at Jaylen Brown's or he's staring. It's Donovan Mitchell's wedding. So all the basketball players there, a lot of guys and Brunson staring at Jaylen Brown, supposedly his camera. I thought it was AI when I first saw it. Like, I thought it was a.

[Rich Paul]

We don't know if he was staring at Jalen Brown. I saw that video.

[Max Kellerman]

What'd you think?

[Rich Paul]

I don't know if he was staring at Jayden Brown. Jalen Brunson not thinking about. No. People make something out of nothing on social media all the time. I don't think that. I think they were all having a good time at Donovan Mitchell's wedding. Congrats to Donovan. I don't think he was staring at Jaylen Brown. And if he was, so be it. They'll see each other. They got four times to see each other during the course of a season and maybe even in the playoffs.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, one thing I'll say, win or lose and whatever, Jaylen Whatever Jaylen Brown does, Brunson's going to get his. He's gonna. He's gonna get his every time.

[Rich Paul]

That goes without saying.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, listen, you and I are. Have some family vacation time coming.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, we do. We have some family vacation time. I'm excited. Yeah. Dropped my son off at college. Excited about that. Pretty cool thing. Looking forward to it.

[Max Kellerman]

You excited about it?

[Rich Paul]

He is.

[Max Kellerman]

That's the main thing. He is psyched where you're going.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he is excited about it. I think, you know, I think he's gonna. He's gonna be a different guy in six months in a good way.

[Max Kellerman]

Is he on financial aid or. You got that taken care of?

[Rich Paul]

Got that. You got that, Max. I'm working hard to be able to keep up, I'll tell you that much. I tell you what kids are. Kids are. That whole idea of. First of all, I never want to. My kids can live in my house for. I mean, as long as they have a job, for as long as they want to, I don't want. But when I was growing up, you always thought you turned 18, you had

[Max Kellerman]

to, and then you're out in the world.

[Rich Paul]

I thought that, you know, when I look back on that, that was one of the worst things ever. That was one of the worst things ever. For that reason. That's. Yeah. Especially in the black community. That's a team. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

But I'll say this. It used to be that way across the board. 18, you go off to college, you get a job, whatever. Certainly by 21. Right. 30 is the new 21. Most kids, they go off to college, they come back and live at home for a little while.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I just think that that's, you know, that's a terrible thing. Like, I understand wanting to have your own place. I had my own place when I was 18. I bought my first house when I was 19 or 20. Close to 20, whatever it was. But you're too young. Even at that still. It don't matter if I had my own. You're still too young. I think there's a world where you have any ability to still pitch in. Right. And I think most people do it because you're trying to be grown too fast.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you want that independence at that age.

[Rich Paul]

But do you really?

[Max Kellerman]

By the way, you're right. Are you still. Listen, your executive functioning, like the part of your brain that makes decisions while you're 18. 19 is still not fully formed.

[Rich Paul]

No.

[Max Kellerman]

And it's literally physically not fully formed. That's why teenagers make bad decisions.

[Rich Paul]

Here's the danger in that. When you make those type of decisions, what it forces you to do is expedite your maturation process. Right. And then now you end up playing house, and that's the worst thing you can do.

[Max Kellerman]

What do you mean by playing house?

[Rich Paul]

You have a girl. Y' all not married. Y' all don't have no plans. She don't have a career. You don't have.

[Max Kellerman]

All of a sudden, there's a kid

[Rich Paul]

involved and you playing house.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

The worst thing you can do is play house. But.

[Max Kellerman]

But while you're playing house, that's that kid's actual life.

[Rich Paul]

Of course.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. But it also stunts your growth because now you know where you. Yeah. Where you can't just walk away from the situation. You have to, you know, and. And everything changes in that matter. So.

[Max Kellerman]

So you're hoping the kids all come back after college.

[Rich Paul]

Oh, during college? Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, you mean like on winter break and stuff like that?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, winter break or. Look, come back after college. If you don't. If you're trying to still figure it out. Yeah. You know, you have a job.

[Max Kellerman]

I'm so conflicted. I don't have any kids in college yet, but I got one who's going through a senior year of high school. I'm so conflicted about that because on the one hand, I would love for them to come back after college, college, and live with me some more. I'm not ready. It happened too fast. I'm not ready. You know, I'm not ready. But on the other hand, if they don't, it means that they're independent, making their way in the world.

[Rich Paul]

Not necessarily. You still going to be paying?

[Max Kellerman]

Not worried about that so much.

[Rich Paul]

I'm just saying. So it's not independent,

[Max Kellerman]

right? Well, I mean, it depends if, like, maybe you are paying, maybe you aren't.

[Rich Paul]

No, you could be paying.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, right. I'll be paying no matter what.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Of course.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. That's the way it works. That's what we signed up for.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rich Paul]

Which you love it. You love to be able to do it. But at the same time, I just think they get so much from still being in the house.

[Max Kellerman]

I agree.

[Rich Paul]

And, you know, when you. If you.

[Max Kellerman]

I think I'll get more than them. Man, it's so nice when you have to me, when you're that age where your kids. I saw this reel. I probably mentioned it on the show. I think it was. Was it Bob or Dave from who. I think it was Odenkirk, who was asked by someone what's the. Are you jealous of anyone? And he said, I'm jealous of anyone with kids in the house of a certain age. Man, that hit me hard.

[Rich Paul]

I'm jealous of my son. I'm jealous of my oldest son. And I tell him this all the time. I'm jealous of him because he actually got the opportunity to be a kid.

[Max Kellerman]

And you didn't.

[Rich Paul]

I did not.

[Max Kellerman]

Right. I did. I got this opportunity to be a kid.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. I mean, I did kid things while also doing adult things. If you read the book. You understand what I'm saying?

[Sponsor Announcer]

Sure, sure.

[Rich Paul]

But. But no, and. And I. I'm. I'm so proud of him being able to just be a kid, not rush things. I look at it and. And I. Every time I used to take him to school or whatever, I used to always tell him, like, richie, I'm. I'm. I'm jealous of your life, man. I really am, because.

[Max Kellerman]

What did he tell you?

[Rich Paul]

He just laughs about it. You know, he's quiet. He just laughs about it. But I. I don't know if he understands exactly what I'm saying because he didn't get to see my life at his age.

[Max Kellerman]

You ever take him to, like, the old neighborhood and stuff like that?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, he's been here. When his grandmother was alive, you know, she piled all the grandkids up in the car, and she. She got, like, a car fits four people. She got 14 people in there.

[Max Kellerman]

My dad used to take us up to the Bronx to show us in the South Bronx, his neighborhood, rich. It looked like Beirut.

[Rich Paul]

100% burn down to the ground.

[Max Kellerman]

Like, who the hell could grow up here? Vacant lots, Cars. Like a bomb went off in them.

[Rich Paul]

My man Glenn March, a really good friend of mine, has become like a brother to me, his older brother. Like, he's from the Bronx. He really built a great business, and we golf together. It's great. But he's from the Bronx. Like, from the Bronx Bronx.

[Max Kellerman]

See, I was born there, but I'm not from there.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

That's why I'm from. The reason I ask if you take Richie there is because I'm not from. I didn't grow up that way. Yeah. But my father made sure that I knew where he had come from and what he had to go through.

[Rich Paul]

So.

[Max Kellerman]

You know what I mean?

[Rich Paul]

You have more. No. Yeah. No, Richie. I mean, look, Richie, you know, he understands. You know, obviously, I have two boys, but him being the. The older, he understands, he has a pretty good balance. But I'm excited for him to go to College. I really. That's awesome.

[Max Kellerman]

All right, game over with Max Kellerman and Rich Paul. Game over at Spotify.com 424-240-8341.

[Rich Paul]

Yes.

[Max Kellerman]

When we get back from vacation, we need to get into some emails and voicemails while we're gone.

[Rich Paul]

What we need is we need a phone right here.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Oh, interesting. And what are we gonna do with this phone? Like a rotary phone, an old phone

[Rich Paul]

to call the number and we pick it up.

[Max Kellerman]

Do you know in New York when they came out with this area codes? Because it used to be just no area codes.

[Rich Paul]

Used to be the number. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Then the boroughs. There's so many boroughs.

[Rich Paul]

Well, if you were calling from another state, you had to.

[Max Kellerman]

But in New York, no matter where you call, there's no area code. You don't have to dial 2, 1. Then all of a sudden I forgot, like in the 80s at some point, 7, 1 8. And then this and that in the

[Rich Paul]

90s on a rotary.

[Max Kellerman]

On a rotary. School.

[Rich Paul]

I know my grandmother had.

[Max Kellerman]

Hold on, Rich. If it was 718 and we had a little phone in the kitchen, it's like almost like a payphone. And if you, if you messed up one number, if you finger hang up, start on the eighth or ninth number and you got to do that whole thing again.

[Rich Paul]

Well, the worst thing for me was, you know, I grew up with my Uncle Charlie, my grandmother, and they mom. So the average age in the house is 65. You can't be using a rotary phone after 6 o'. Clock. So I'm trying to close the door, but, you know, the rooms are so close together. It's a little, you know, upstairs. And the worst thing that would happen to me, I would be on the phone, you know, I'm talking to a lady and I'm talking. My Uncle Charlie, pick up that phone, ask me time to hang the phone up. I'm like, oh, my. This is crazy. I'm like, come on, man. Come on. Uncle Charlie. But he was an ex veteran and he. Military rules, by the way. Uncle Charlie. And I'm gonna say this before we go. When you talk about. Just when you wonder where I get to, like wake up with no alarm or just everything. So precise. Uncle Charlie, every Tuesday, one day out the week, would see his girlfriend. Only one day. He shaved, put a white shirt on. Jeans, shoes, not sneakers. Shoes like what you have on. Top hat if it's cold, overcoat. He had a sky blue Ford Tempo. You can eat off of it. Brand new. You can eat off of it. When he comes back on the Wednesday, as he's going out the door on a Tuesday, my grandmother give him the grocery list. She always wrote the list on the back of an envelope because we didn't buy that many groceries. So when he come home on Wednesday, he would have the groceries. That was their deal. And at 10 o' clock at night, he went to bed every night. Every single night at 10 o', clock, he wore a pant. He wore a knee high over his head and a little tie at the top. And he'd sit there and watch the game. And I used to sometimes sit on the steps and watch it with him. I don't care what the score is, Max, if that game's going to overtime. He had a little clock right here by the. By the stand.

[Max Kellerman]

He's cutting it off.

[Rich Paul]

If that clock.

[Max Kellerman]

Uncle Charlie, you're bugging. No, we know. We're fighting. Nope. If that.

[Rich Paul]

Max, if that clock gets to 10

[Max Kellerman]

o', clock, you cuts it off, lamp

[Rich Paul]

out, TV off upstairs. Come on, Uncle Charlie, I can, I can count on one hand how many times I. I had to ask him, like, please, can we just watch the over. But it was less than 5, I'm telling you right now.

[Max Kellerman]

Well, you were in Cleveland in those years.

[Rich Paul]

What years?

[Max Kellerman]

These are not the Mark Price years, are they?

[Rich Paul]

Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Yeah. Okay, so you actually had a little squad here.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah, this was. This was. I lived there from 1991-99, so I was 11. Yeah, I was 11. Yeah. But again, I couldn't argue with him at the end of the day. And Uncle Charlie lived. He was 103 years old, man.

[Max Kellerman]

What?

[Rich Paul]

We're going to bed at 10.

[Max Kellerman]

103.

[Rich Paul]

103 years old.

[Max Kellerman]

Not worth it. It's not worth it. Going to bed at 10 sharp. Not worth it.

[Rich Paul]

My grandmother was 95 and their mom was 95.

[Max Kellerman]

Damn, you got some longevity.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. 103 years old. And Grandma B, Grandma B, right now is 104. 104 right now. Yeah.

[Max Kellerman]

Grandma who? Grandma B. Grandma B. Congratulations, Grandma B.

[Rich Paul]

True player. Dressed to the nines. That's one thing about my grandmother is all of them, they get dressed to the nines. So many hats, man. They have more hats than Mike the Hatter. Still going strong. Still going strong, man.

[Max Kellerman]

All right.

[Rich Paul]

Yeah. All right.

[Max Kellerman]

All right. See you after the game.

[Sponsor Announcer]

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[Rich Paul]

Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Max Kellerman]

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