CRABBY: A full show with Bob Kroll former president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis

Summary

GARAGE LOGIC “CRABBY” with Bob Kroll (May 20, 2026) Guest: Bob Kroll (Former President, Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis)

---

EPISODE OVERVIEW
This lively, unfiltered episode of Garage Logic’s “Crabby Coffee Shop” brings together hosts Jay Coles and Chris with Bob Kroll — a former president of the Minneapolis Police Officers Federation, retired 2021 — for a sprawling, revealing conversation about policing, city politics, law enforcement culture, the Minneapolis riots, union dynamics, and life in the Twin Cities. Throughout, there’s frank discussion of public perceptions, changing political and policing climates, and Kroll’s deep experience in the heart of tumultuous recent history — topped off with rich banter and Midwest irreverence.

---

KEY DISCUSSION POINTS

1. Getting to Know Bob Kroll: Motorcycles, Family, and Roots

• Kroll’s Motorcycling History (02:26–05:03)

  • Describes his first motorcycle, an '83 Yamaha Maxim 750, later moving to Harleys.
  • Anecdotes about bikes with cohosts, reminiscences about learning to ride and family cop/motorcycle traditions.
  • Quote: “My first motorcycle was a ‘83 Yamaha Maxim 750.” – Bob Kroll (02:40)
  • Current ride: 2014 Harley Electra Glide with 98,000 miles.

• Banter about “Sportster” Harleys (05:03–09:33)

  • Running joke about Sportsters being “girl bikes,” family motorcycle stories.

• Kroll’s Wife, Liz: Straight Arrow, Powerhouse, and Their Contrasts (09:34–12:10, 26:12–28:28 & 32:56–36:22)

  • Liz is described as a hardworking “straight arrow,” very by-the-book and deeply involved in her own professional and creative pursuits.
  • Kroll contrasts his laid-back style and winging-it approach to her meticulous prep.
  • Quote: “I read at about an 8th grade level, she speed reads... she gets 100 tips a day and I get tips a day to give to Liz.” – Bob Kroll (27:05)

---

2. GROWING UP: Midwest Upbringings and Policing

• Blue-Collar Roots and City Changes (11:19–17:34)
  • Anecdotes from Kroll, Chris, and Jay about growing up in Wisconsin/Minnesota, drinking keg beer as teenagers, cop family traditions, and the transformation of their cities.
  • Chris recounts being called a “cop lover” as a reporter, fighting for fair coverage in news stories.
  • Quote: “The pendulum had swung so far the other way.” – Chris (14:34)

---

3. THE POLITICS OF POLICING IN MINNEAPOLIS

• City Council Evolution and Ideological Swings (15:00–21:29)

  • Discussion of political shifts: from a council with “one Republican” to what Kroll calls “complete lunacy” and “socialists.”
  • Nuanced take on council members supportive of police: Vita, Rainville, Palmisano, Pearl Warren.
  • Deep-dive into Minneapolis’ longstanding Rainville/Johnson political family.

• Defunding, Cop City, and Police Training (20:30–23:23)

  • Critique of politics around training centers (“Cop City” nickname).
  • Frustration at inconsistency: desire for both reform and refusal to invest in training.

• Riots and Community Response: Jay Moves Out (22:02–24:08)

  • Jay describes the fear and lawlessness during the 2020 riots, pushing his family to leave Minneapolis.
  • Quote: “We were actually making barricades… ready for it to go down.” – Jay (22:58)

• Third Precinct and Riots Aftermath (23:34–26:46)

  • Kroll, Jay, and Chris discuss the devastation after George Floyd’s death: “almost every building damaged or on fire.”
  • Kroll notes the northside Target was the only one in the U.S. to close due to theft.

---

4. UNION LIFE & MINNEAPOLIS PD: Contracts, Manpower, and Criticism

• Inside the Police Union (39:00–45:22)

  • Kroll explains his job: fiercely defending due process, sticking to the labor agreement, and why the union is always the scapegoat.
  • Quote: “If you gave Bob Kroll a grade for defending cops, if you gave him anything less than an A, you’re not paying attention to what his job is.” – Chris (38:49)
  • Critiques city officials’ complaints about contracts they themselves signed.

• Manpower Crisis and Top-Heavy Leadership (40:21–42:52)

  • Dramatic, persistent drop in officer numbers post-Floyd (~600 active, vs target of 1,200–1,300).
  • Concern about over-promoted admin: “There’s so many commanders I can’t keep track of them, Bob.” – Chris (42:18)

---

5. MEDIA, PERCEPTION, AND NARRATIVE

• Media Relationships, Coverage, and Bias (46:41–48:47, 76:36–77:25)

  • Reflection on declining trust between cops and media.
  • Frustration over “cop lover” labels and race narratives.
  • Jay and Chris critique media and council members for sticking to narratives over facts: “Perception is reality.” (45:26, 92:15)

• Pointergate, Betsy Hodges, and Public Scandals (45:46–47:42)

  • Revisiting the infamous “Pointergate” incident and its distortions in the media.

---

6. POLICING, PROTESTS, AND FEARLESS HONESTY

• George Floyd, Trials, and Systemic Issues (59:42–67:43)

  • Kroll’s controversial position: “Was [Floyd] murdered? Absolutely not. Was it an overdose? Absolutely. Was it a fair trial? No way.” (60:09)
  • Points to juror intimidation, excluded evidence, policy failures in leadership, poor supervision, and decision to let the Third Precinct burn.
  • Powerful claim that the knee hold was in fact a trained technique, contrary to chief testimony.

• Professional Protesters: (70:13–73:51)

  • Kroll alleges many organizers in Twin Cities protests/riots were “on the payroll” and from out of state.
  • Quote: “They are 100% on the payroll, not 100% of the people, but the organizers.” (71:47)
  • Discussion of “mental illness,” “lost souls,” and aging ‘60s/‘70s activists among the protest crowd.

---

7. POLICE MORALE, RETENTION, AND THE CULTURE OF THE FORCE

• Why Work in Minneapolis? (79:19–81:31)

  • Kroll honestly says the only reason to join the MPD now is “the pay is good because there’s nobody working.”
  • Criticizes shift from proactive “crime fighting” to fireman-like response (“they act like firemen; they sit in the barn and respond”).

• Union Leadership, Diversity, and Allegations (51:05–53:11)

  • Kroll dismisses being called racist, citing his strong, diverse support in union elections.
  • Relays story of a Black officer, Mike Griffin, saying: “You talking about Bob Kroll? I love that man.” (53:03)

• Handling Problem Cops (78:31–78:59)

  • Addresses the myth that unions always defend bad officers: “There’s bad journalism, there’s bad everything... but by and large, they’re good guys.” (79:01)

• Praised Approach to Hiring: (79:03–79:19)

  • “Hire for character and train them to what you want… rather than hire for diversity and hope for the best.” – Kroll

---

8. SWAT LIFE, DANGERS, AND LIFE-AND-DEATH MOMENTS

• What SWAT Cops Do When Not Swatting (83:58–86:48)
  • Most serve in regular police roles and only rotate onto high-risk warrant teams a few months a year.
  • “We were doing 700 crack raids a year.” – Kroll (84:09)
  • Kroll describes being shot at three times on entries: “There was a baby next to him in the crib… We had to put our bullets between his knees and his belly button.” (87:42)
  • Acknowledges the adrenaline, camaraderie, and darkness of the job: “If you don’t laugh, you cry, right?” (88:28)

---

9. PUBLIC ATTITUDES, RESPECT, AND THE FUTURE

• Support and Hatred for Police (75:30–77:18, 91:06–91:57)
  • Cops express how hard it is to face public hatred — even in rural Minnesota counties.
  • Jay: “Perception is reality, and narrative is more important than facts.” (92:15)
  • Closing observations that most people quietly support cops, but the “crazies have the loudest voice.”

---

NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• “The pendulum had swung so far the other way.” – Chris (14:34)
• “If you gave Bob Kroll a grade for defending cops, if you gave him anything less than an A, you’re not paying attention to what his job is.” – Chris (38:49)
• “Was he murdered? Absolutely not. Was it an overdose? Absolutely.” – Bob Kroll (60:09)
• “Hire for character and train them… rather than hire for diversity and hope for the best.” – Bob Kroll (79:03)
• “They act like firemen… that’s not police work. You’re not doing the citizens any favor working that way.” – Bob Kroll (81:05)
• “Perception is reality, and narrative is more important than facts.” – Jay Coles (92:15)
• “There’s just such a hatred for them… anyone that would stereotype anyone is wrong. And we get accused of stereotyping all the time. But guess what? They stereotype you guys all the time.” – Bob Kroll (91:06)

---

TIMESTAMP GUIDE TO MAJOR SEGMENTS

| Timestamp | Segment Description | | --------- | ------------------ | | 02:26–05:03 | Motorcycles, first rides, Harley talk | | 09:34–12:10 | Liz Kroll’s personality and their relationship | | 15:00–21:29 | Minneapolis city council changes and politics | | 20:30–23:23 | “Cop city”, police training, city priorities | | 22:02–24:08 | Jay’s firsthand account leaving Minneapolis during riots | | 39:00–45:22 | Union contracts, media perception, and payload of city pay | | 59:42–67:43 | George Floyd’s death, trial, department policy failures | | 70:13–73:51 | “Professional protesters,” mental illness, protest culture | | 79:19–81:31 | Why would anyone work in the MPD today? | | 83:58–86:48 | SWAT stories, being shot at, what the job was “really” like | | 91:06–91:57 | Stereotyping, public perceptions, support for police |

---

THEMES & TONALITY

• Irreverent, candid, occasionally coarse — typical Garage Logic “coffee shop” style.
• Strong nostalgia for “old school” Minneapolis balanced with frustration and resentment over recent events and leadership.
• Critical, sometimes defensive, on union and police issues, but underpinned by pride in law enforcement camaraderie and traditions.

---

RECOMMENDED LISTENING FOR:

• Anyone seeking a “boots-on-the-ground” perspective of Minneapolis policing before, during, and after the George Floyd era.
• Listeners interested in Midwest political history, union dynamics, policing culture, or true crime.
• Those who want to understand why tensions run so high in Twin Cities’ law enforcement — and what old-guard police think about reforms and their future.

Transcript

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com, find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

law

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

this is the story of the

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

One As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

That's why she counts on Grainger to

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters, and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Grainger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one. The earthquake that trashed the whole West Coast. Total destruction.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I just didn't know what would help me next. So I took it all. Even the gun.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It was Time Cello American Afterlife presented by Pair of Thieves, the number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Listen wherever you get your favorite podcasts available now.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Now normally, Kohl's J. Coles formerly of 5 Eyewitness News. I spend a great deal of time researching and doing show prep and getting ready for an interview. A lot of time I. I usually have too many notes and a lot of stuff we can't get to. I've only done one thing today, and I've spent three hours searching the Internet for what kind of motorcycle Bob Coroll drives and I can't find anything.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I could have told you that. I can't give you the specifics. I just know it's a Harley.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Welcome to the Crabby Coffee Shop, Bob.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Thanks for having me, guys.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, we're crabby as usual every day.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Okay, before we get to Jay's Gotcha interview, where he's gonna trap you into a corner and ask you all sorts of embarrassing questions, I want to cover the important stuff. Number one, what was your first motorcycle?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

My first motorcycle was a 83 Yamaha Maxim 750.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Nice.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Sweet. Don't know anything about those.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

That was the bike you kind of learned on and got comfortable on, correct?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yep. Yep. That Was. In fact, it was right up about it on University Avenue, not far from here, really, in St. Paul? What the heck was the name of the place?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Was it down toward the Capitol?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

No, it was just over the other side in St. Paul.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

There.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I cannot even.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You don't mean in Minneapolis, Honda Town?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

No, no, it was.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I can't remember what would be down there.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, it's 1983, you guys. I was at. That's here. I graduated high school, so.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Mine, too. Yeah, that's when I graduated.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

God, I'm older than both of you.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But then I went to a 96 Harley Electric Glide. Yeah. And then my second electric glide was a 01 Harley, okay? And that one had 92,000 miles on it. Determined to break 100. And I started at St. Paul Harley. And after they inspected it, they said, you got to come see this. And I don't know anything. I got an older brother that's a mechanic. So I said, what's up? They go, your swing arm's broken. So I called my brother. I go, what the hell's a swing arm?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Well, he lives life of death is what it is to me.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Because I would have gone, okay.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

No, it is life or death.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Okay?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I would never know.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

He lives right near St. Paul Harley. So he met me there, and they all go, holy shit. Well, basically, it holds your back tire on, okay? And there's two pieces to it, and one was completely cracked all the way through. And they can't repair it, and they cannot. You know, you can't. And he's got. What do you think? If you're going about, you know, 60 on the highway and hit something? I'm thinking back then, how about 80 on the freeway? I would have lost my whole tail end. But anyway, I. I didn't get 100 on that. Sold it to a friend that actually did a great job repairing it. Showed me pictures. They tricked it all out later on, and they still have it running. But now I'm on a 2014 Electric Glide, and I got 98,000 on that.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Oh, nice.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So I'll break a. Hopefully, God willing, I'll break 100 on this one.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

How's it running for you?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Wonderfully.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I don't do a thing to it. I bring it to Harley and let them do it. Yeah, Kenny's a gear.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Does his own.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Is it all tricked out with goodies? Aftermarket goodies?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Not really.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I just saw it in the parking lot. It looks pretty damn cool.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

The one thing I like is a detachable trunk, so it looks like it. You know, it looks like a street glide without tour pack on there.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I was just a little kid when a couple of neighbors, two brothers, started going riding motorcycles out west for the summer. One of them had a 750 Honda that it was a chopper, and the other one had a. What's. What's the Harley girls bike. A Sportster.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Sportster Chopper.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And this was the. This was the AMF years.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, sure.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And they would leave in. They would show up again back home either two days or two weeks or two months later. And the Honda was always pulling the Harley. Always. Every single time. Because it was an amf. And he said they got really good riding together because the Honda brakes were garbage. But the Harley brakes were amazing. So much so that the guy in the back would control on the Harley, would control the brake, but would continually snap the rope. They didn't have a strap. It was a tow rope. By the time they got home, the Harley's front tire would be a foot from the Honda tire, and it was death on wheel.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That looks like something I'd see in Burnett County. I swear to God.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. I started on dirt bikes. And other than a few wayward years on some sport bikes, I pretty much stayed on dirt bikes. I learned. I learned that I cannot be trusted on the highway on a motorcycle. There's something. There's something mentally wrong with me where I cannot take it easy. I can't just ride down the highway. I've got it. We gotta go all the way to the stop and do an 80 and lift the front wheel up and wheelie past guys. I'm one of those. So I have banned myself from riding on the street.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I can't picture you. You pop wheelies going down the highway.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It's remarkably easy and the funnest thing you'll ever do on a motorbike.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I bet they could get my front end up. They. Because I wouldn't try it, but they could get my front end up.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

No way.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

My son. The only thing I know. Well, I know two things about Harley's. They're made in Milwaukee, right outside Milwaukee, where I grew up. Yeah. So everybody had Harley's, right?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

My uncle. I had two uncles who were cops in Racine, and my Uncle Roy was a motorcycle cop. Well, he must have been on the motorcycle detail. I don't know what the hell you call it. Right. He had the leather jacket with the white cop hat. And he would pull up, because it was my mom's brother. He'd pull up to the house in that Harley As a cop with the big motorcycle pants, the big leather Nazi boots. Can we say Nazi boots?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

No, they're not.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, just to give people a visual, you know what I'm saying? Big leather boots up there.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

They're called motorcycles, motorcycle boots.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I know. I just always.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, they started.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

We used to call them Nazi boots. I don't know what to tell you.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They started motors in Minneapolis and then. But, you know, I've always been so endeared to the police or to the police administration. They always let me have whatever assignment I wanted. But I was truly the best quality. Oh, there, he's got his picture up.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

That's my first motorcycle, Bob. An Indian.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, my.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

When Indians were made by some cheap ass company in Italy.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Sweet. They're the go to bikes these days.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

When I was a kid, Hondas looked like that. The little Honda mini bikes.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yep.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Honda mini enduros or something like that. Is that right?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, we call them pit bikes now.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Pit bikes. Okay.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yep, Yep.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But I just remember Uncle Roy pulling up in that Harley and it was the coolest thing. And he had the aviator glasses with the cop hat. And my son, when he got out of the Marines, got a Harley, but it didn't look anything like yours.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It was.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I wish I knew what it was. It wasn't a dirt.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It wasn't an XR dirt tracker style, was it?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It was more. Yeah. It didn't look, you know, like what you have on the back end.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They make them a lot sleeker. It was sleek.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Nothing on it. It was a cool ass Harley.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Wasn't a Sportster. That's a girl bike we were talking about.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It might have been a Sportster. I wish I could call it.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

That's embarrassing.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

My sister bought a Sportster to start off with.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

No.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Okay. And I said, you're gonna grow that in a year. And she did, and she went to a wild glide. But then she.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It wasn't that bad.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Maybe a wide glide or something.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, a really cool bike. And then it got stolen out of his garage.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

My dad did real estate and he had to take a Sportster as commission one year, and I asked him if I could ride it. And my dad had the good sense to tell me, you don't want to be caught dead on a Sportster, so stay on your dirt bike.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Tell my son, don't admit you had a Sportster to anybody.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Apparently, it's a bad thing.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. So do you bring Liz with on any rides or do you.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, I heard her interview with you guys. She's a big talker, you know, you guys need to understand, Liz is about square and straight a person. I mean, I bring the laughter and the entertainment to the family. She's such a straight arrow workaholic when I met her, of course. Oh yeah, she really liked Harleys and she'd get on the back. Now, like I said, I got a detachable tour pack. And the only time she'll get on that is if I had the tour pack on. So it's around her and she feels more protective. Realize this isn't gonna do shit for you, right? You go down, you're going down, right? But it feels better. And then she's got this helmet and the guys call her Kazoo from the Jetsons, you know. Cause I got pictures of her in this ridiculous looking helmet and. But she's got the clothes, you know, she puts. Clothes, clothes, clothes. Oh my. Yeah, she rides a couple times a year, you guys.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's it. She made a show. She was a big biker.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That's what she did when I met her Jay. And then once they get you locked in.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Oh yeah, that's so she's clever.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

She's smarter than most.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Liz is square. She is straight.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Really?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Come on. No way. Come on. You don't like this image I've got?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Like you don't know that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, I knew she was professionally. I never hung out with her socially.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But professionally, as I got to know her a little bit, I was suspected she might be a little more.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

She had narrowed in Worthington. She had keys to the high school because she did the everything there. She was really tied for the number one graduate of that graduating class. She ran the school media program. She was the head of. They got away from. They got away from. Students Against Drunk Driving.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Sad. Sad. Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And they created Students Against Destructive decisions, which was two more Ds. And then Frank Vasilero later named that Safra. Students against anything fun at all. But Liz was ahead of all that.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Super nerd.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

She was ahead of all that. Me, on the other hand, I went to Harding high school in St. Paul. And my keg parties were every Friday night at the top of the world. Bella Creek ski hill. And the cops that went to Harding knew how to get there and take our beer. But we made sure we took the tap every year for the following weekend.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You know, you and I grew up together.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Complete polar opposites.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It was the same for me. Only was out at abandoned farm sites, but it was the same story.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, we used to do it down on Lake Michigan off North beach in Racine. And we were always frustrated, Kenny, because we knew when the cops came, they would. They'd take the beer.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They would always take it. And then I get to be friends later with the cops that took it. Bob Mercado, one of them was St. Paul Cop. And then Tim Jones was another one Nip. Oh, Tim Jones, who was killed in line of duty. But they'd come up, and Mercado would say, you know, take the keg. And it'd be Friday. I'll be thinking to you boys Sunday, when I got the guys that were watching football, because they were drinking our beer.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Watching the Vikings lose.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yes, watching the Vikings lose. Drinking our beer.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean, I hate to admit it, but this is growing up in Wisconsin, but, you know, not. Would we get caught with it on the beach. We'd get caught with it in the backseat of the car to have a couple cases, and they would. We never. They never did anything popular. Then they would take the beer, and they would say, if we see you guys anymore tonight.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And that was it. That's the way it was.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You're coming down with us.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Years later, I met the Minnehaha Tavern having a beer. And Ricardo walks in off duty, and he's. Buy him a beer. Buy him a beer. And, God, buy Bob. When. Lord knows, I had a lot of his beer over the years.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It made me want to be a cop when I was a kid.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, that's why I became one.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. Well, both my uncles were. And, you know, both had fought in the war, and I had three cousins that ended up being cops in Racine. Because they were their dads, right?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Sure.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So I grew up around cops. And I will tell you this. They were more fun. Those were the two most fun uncles of the family. You bet were the cops.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I always had tremendous respect because they were part of my family. And so as you grow up and you get older, and then as I experienced as a reporter coming through the ranks and all the things that were happening in Minneapolis, when I got to know you, I always felt like I used to get called a cop lover a lot and all that kind of stuff with my reporting, and I thought, well, no, maybe I'm just being fair. Nobody was ever trying to. You should be held to a higher standard. I get all that. You carry a gun and a badge. I get it. But it was so far to one side, Bob, as we entered the last two decades, that it got to me to be ridiculous. And I thought, I'm gonna work to make sure There are still other stories on the other side of this because that was never being told.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That's why you were my guy at 5. When I was the Federation president, I had one in every. Had a good guy in each channel that would at least. And we weren't asking to get our side up, but just be fairness, be fair.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Fairness, yeah. And to me, that was super important because the pendulum had swung so far the other way that it was just time to say, well, wait a minute. You gotta balance this out a little bit.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Exactly.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And to this day, I still think the pendulum's too far the other way.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, God, it's terrible.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Could you imagine being. Could you imagine doing what you do when you were Federation president? It was bad enough with that city council. Imagine today's with the socialists on that city council.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They are. It's completely lunacy. It's complete lunacy. It's crazy that over there. I remember, you know, back in. There was only one Republican on the council when I was even a cop.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Danny Scholstad.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Danny Sholstad. And guess what? I got sued one time, and it was a garbage lawsuit. And he calls me, says, how do you feel about this? I said, this is garbage. Fight it. And he goes, well, I'm gonna convince the council that, well, guess what? They were gonna give this kid $160,000. And Denny Schofsett said, nope, convince the council. In a 7 to 6 vote, they fought it. It was Bob Bennett who was notorious for suing cops and made millions and millions and millions. Well, guess what? We spent six weeks in trial, and at the end of it, he got zero. And if the city would fight these

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

more, they might win.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They'd never be in this. They'd quit coming to you. And other cities do that. But that was Scholstedt, and he was the last Republican on that coast.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You know, you and I might be the only people who remember Denny Schulstedt these days.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And he was so long, but even then, years later, he was the one. The one.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Not only the last one, but he was the only one. Since 1992, when I got to this town. Bob.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yep.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

He's the only Republican that's been on the city military.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Was Barb a Democrat?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

No.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, I was gonna say Barb Johnson, you know, but the Democrats were different there. I was born and raised a Democrat, and my dad would be a staunch Republican if he were alive today.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Listen, I'm glad you brought that up. My father worked in the foundry in Racine, so he wasn't a cop, but he was a foundry worker. My uncles were all cops. Everybody was. Racine was a labor town. You never spoke a bad word about a union. It was a labor town. It was a Democratic town. And if they were alive today, they would not be able to recognize what's happening.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And that's Barb. We had Barb Johnson. You had Lisa Goodman. For a long time on the council,

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Lisa was considered conservative. She was a Democrat.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yes, they both were, but she was

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

considered conservative at the time. And now when she left, she was a liberal.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You know, when I started, I was on the Federation Board 25 years, and we would screen candidates for all the offices and stuff like that. And Barb and Lisa came in and, you know, that was pretty much a rubber stamp because they were law enforcement backers. And Barb came in and she's. The last time when she lost, she's like, guys, you know, I'm gonna back you, but I can't have your endorsement. I want your backing behind the scenes, but it's gonna hurt me in this city. And that's how far that city has gone. And she was. You know, she just. Her husband was a cop before he became an attorney. And they were just northeast labor people and law and order people, and that's. And Barb's off the council now.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You know the Walt Diedziks of the world.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet. You bet.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I know Minneapolis police has a friend in Latricia Vita.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yes, well. And I was on the board when she first ran for park rep. And Adam Schwerzik, my park rep at the time, said, hey, look into her. And we liked everything you saw us. And she. And we endorsed her for park rep. And then now she's one of the sole supporters, Mike Rainville.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Rainville. Palmisano.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

A little bit, but they're not even to the level that you should be or could be.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But at least with Palmisano, you've got somebody who's reasonable.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, yeah. Sane. Sane. Because that helps if you're on a city council.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And Latricia has told us that the new Ward 5 council person, Pearl Warren. Pearl Warren has a hat on her shirt.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Shoulders. That one, I don't know. But from both sides, Vita is probably the strongest one.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You know?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. And Pearl's right there with her.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Okay. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Because they need that North Siders. And they know what the north side.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Jay. Wasn't it Pearl that called the Violence Interrupters Skittles? Looking like they were Skittles with their funny uniforms.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They're different multi colored T shirts.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Walking around like a bunch of damn Skittles, which I thought was maybe the quote of the month. It was so perfect. And when you start talking about someone like Vita and Rainville. Cause Rainville's right there with Vita, I would say. So you got Rainville, Vita, and you got Pearl Warren. Right. Kenny. And I would still say Paul Masano when push comes to show she's pushing for that $40 million training facility right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

In south Minneapolis.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Linnae's been wanting that for a long time, so she'll get on board with most things. I think she would never have supported defunding the police. So you really have four votes out of 13 that you can count on.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And, you know, Barb Johnson and Rainville are related. Barb was a Rainville.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yep.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So they're, you know, and that was a big, big political, civil service, northeast family.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, look at this. Look at John Darris is their cousin.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So John Darris was on the city council. And then it became Alice Rainville, which is Barb's mom. And then it became Barb.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You're good, Jay. You know your northeast hit history.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But you're right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean, that was one city council seat held by the same family for almost 50 years, right? About 40 years. And then Mike Rainville, who is cousins of Barb, is now on the council, but he's a different seat in northeast. Barb was more north. And so think about that. I mean, that whole family is, for the last 50 to 60 years, has had a big influence. And I still say Barb was the longest serving city council president ever, too.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Sure.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

At 12 years.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Barb. I used to joke with people and tell them, if you want to get something done in Minneapolis, go through Barb Johnson. She's going to get it done.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Speaking of getting things done, if they finance that training center and it goes through and they build it just to spite Chuggy, I would put at the gates cop city. I would lean into that insult. I would absolutely lean into that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I think they're calling it cop city because.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Because it's after something in.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

In Atlanta.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Which was a big problem.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But the Atlanta one was 10 times the size of what they're talking about on the south side of Minneapolis.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Bob, you know, let me get this straight. You don't want your police officers trained.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's the part I don't understand, Kenny.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I don't get that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Me either.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You know, back in the day where the third precinct used to be in the whole torched out building still sits There, right next to there, was the ywca.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

The city could have bought that whole building for a dollar way back in the day and made it police what it is now. They looked at making a training facility, a precinct, all under one roof, and they balked at it and didn't do it.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

What did Rainville told us they were going to do with that, Jay? Didn't I ask Rainville about that?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

About the cop city?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

The. No, the third building.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They're going to make it as a

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

democracy, a democracy center, which I think

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

they're keeping it as a shrine to their. Whatever.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean, I understand what Mike was saying when he joined us. I think it was a democracy center because a lot of their voting stuff is going to be kept there. I understand it that way, but it's going to be more than that. And the reason.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

What could go wrong there? There wouldn't be any.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

So, Bob, the reason I'm remote is I live between Alexandria and Fergus Falls because during the riots, you know, I'd been living in Minneapolis since the early 80s. I had a house on 20th Avenue south and 39th street just south of 38th. So we witnessed the march down 38th. And then after or one night, the city was prepping for really bad riots. And they had meetings in all the little parks throughout the city. And ours was Sibley Park. We lived across from Sibley Park. And they told the residents, go home, draw your shades, get all your. Your grills and your trash and everything in the garage. Don't go outside. And to me and my wife, that's utter bullshit. And to a bunch of my neighbors, the same thing. So we were actually making makeshift barricades so people couldn't go up and down the street. The wife and I sat in lawn chairs in the middle of the alley with, with, with. We were prepared, let me put it that way. We were ready. We were ready for the. To go down.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You were able to defend yourself.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And the helicopters are flying over at that treetop level and you're hearing the gunshots and you're hearing the rioting. And that's when I turned to her and said, are you ready to move? And four months later, we were gone. That's all it took.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, you were not. You were what, about eight. Eight blocks from ground zero there?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah. And. And to make it worse, Bob, I. I go down to Minnehaha and Lake street. Where that target is.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yep.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

We called it the ghetto target. I'm down there the next morning at about 10, and I still have the footage on my phone driving around filming people still going in and out of all the stores with the stuff and then setting up a marketplace out in the parking lot and selling it.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

To sell it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I. It was. It was so disappointing. Driving from the river all the way over to Nicollet and seeing almost every single building damaged or on fire.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And as Bob just said, Kenny, none. None of that had to happen.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I used to work off duty at that Target. Well, there isn't many places you can point in the city where I didn't work off duty.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

We called it the Ghetto Cub and the Ghetto Target. We always went there.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

The Rainbow, all of that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You know, that Cub over on the north side, we had a crew shot at over there about three summers ago. Bullet right to the hood.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Prior to that was a Target, Right?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Is that right?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

On Broadway.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

On Broadway, yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That was a Target prior to that. And it was the only target in the country to ever shut down due to theft. Due to theft.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Geez.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They were just covering a story over there.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

What is the liquor store that Reverend Timothy was talking about on Broadway? And I think Lindale Merwin.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Merwin's Drugstore. Yeah. Al Berryman. That was his gig. Al was my predecessor on the Federation board while between. John Del Monaco.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I was gonna say it was Berryman. When I got here, it was Berryman.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yep.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And then it was Delmonico. Then you.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I just saw Al. He was in town. He lives in Montana now, but he just came into town, and we just got together here last Saturday.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Nice. Yeah, we're in Montana.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

West Missoula. Missoula.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. Sweet.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, for you.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

He was a police legend.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. And I didn't know him that well because I got new. I was new to town.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You ever considered pulling up and moving?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, I would be gone, you guys.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I'd be.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

With this weather right now, we're going into June and it's still freezing. So for the lefties that are all worried about global warming, you know what that comes from? From running our furnaces until June. Right. You know?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yes, yes.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But I would be. I made the mistake of marrying a younger woman.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah. We all feel for you. Yeah, we all feel for you.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And I would be in Florida about seven months out of the year if I could. I'm looking, but we got a seventh grader, and Liz is a workaholic, to put it lightly. That's a huge understatement.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I kept asking her how she's doing, all the stuff she's doing.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Bob. She loves it, you guys, she loves her job, but she takes on the sideline of writing books on doing documentaries. That's over and above Alpha. But she honestly, for the most part she can work from home because she got a studio in there and stuff. But there's people that can work from home where you're like, what are they doing? They're doing gardening or whatever, you know. And there's people that can work from home because they get more done. And let me tell you, Alpha's getting their money's worth out of my wife. She is 8am to 9pm, seven days a week.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I was curious because I asked her, I said between the documentaries, cause I watch what she puts out on a daily basis. I said, how are you? I couldn't figure out how she was finding the time because just to do a documentary of the scope that they're doing is a full time job. That in and of itself is full time.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Correct. And she gets tips and emails. Unfortunately, again, we're polar opposites. I read at about an 8th grade level, she speed reads because she gets 100 tips a day and I get tips a day to give to Liz. And she looks at everything. And social media, she's gotta be on that constant. But no, she literally, she puts in 12 hour days.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

She told me she goes, you know that nice cityscape behind me in the screen when she does her thing, when she's doing Liz Collins reports, it's in my house.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, that's the good thing. Well, and really that you, you guys know better than anybody, it beats sitting in traffic an hour each way when you can do it just as well at home and allow you that, that time to do other things more important. And with her, like I said, there's, there's, there's people that you wouldn't want work at home for one minute and there's others. I mean, I'm lucky if she'll come down to the man cave for an hour before we go to bed at night. Yeah, that's I believe, workaholic.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I believe moving out of the city and then occasionally visiting like the last two days, I have solved the problem. I know what's wrong with the Twin Cities. There's too damn many of you, for God's sake. Some of you need to move. Don't come up here though.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, no, I'd be gone. I would be gone at least half the year. But I always say to her, I go, do we live in Minnesota for the climate, for the politics,

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

for the

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

taxes or for our winning pro Sports teams. Why do we stay here?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

How do you fight that?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right? We're staying here. Why? And I love to ride motorcycles. Every year we take a trip trip, guys and I, and we'll go. There's not many states I haven't hit yet that I got the pin map down. And we always know when we get home to Minnesota because. Just because the roads are shit. We pay the highest taxes in the country and have literally the worst roads I've ever ridden on. I mean, I've ridden in Missouri from top to bottom. And you don't hit a bump, right? You don't hit a bump.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Missouri's a wonderful state.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Beautiful state.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Especially when you get down in southern Missouri. What's your favorite mountain pass to ride?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I've done a lot of them, though.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I don't know. Smokies, that one through Red Cloud up into Yellowstone.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That was great. We did that a couple years ago. You know, there, the weather can be iffy.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean, the Tetons are the coolest mountain range in the country.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

So that grade, though, both up and down, it doesn't matter which room you go on the Teton. Oh, when you start smelling your brakes and you start getting soft, it's a

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

little, you know, unnerving when you're going down and there's. You're looking. Looking down over the shoulder and. Yeah. On a bike.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Jay, let's take a quick break here. I want to talk about. Yeah, I want to talk about my experience this week at Schoonover Auto Body Shop and Auto Care. So amazing. They did so much work to my truck, and they promised me on Monday morning when I. When I dropped it off that I would get it back end of the day Tuesday. And sure enough, they did. And it was really fun sitting in their lobby on Tuesday hearing the interactions between the customers and Nikki at the front desk. Or Quinn, one of the service techs, or Matthew, a service guy, too. Really interesting. And everybody says the same thing. Thank you so much. I love you guys. That's because Schoonovers is the best in the metro. They will figure out all of your needs. They can attend to all of your vehicle needs. They can all be met at Schoonovers. I'm talking bodywork, engine work, tires, glass, maintenance, detailing. Oh, my God, the detailing. That truck came back looking brand new. And if you go to Schoonovers for body repair after a crash, those repairs are guaranteed for as long as you own that vehicle and they deal with your insurance company, which is absolutely wonderful. All you have to do is say, I got in a crash and bringing schoonovers and they do the rest. The fourth generation of schoonovers already working in that shop. A family business going way back. If you need anything at all for your vehicle, stop in and meet that team. You will be impressed. There at 1060 County Road in Shoreview. And they're on the web.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It's a world of artificial intelligence, of

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

limited character tweets, of mini clips on TikTok. My name's Mishke, and the Mishke podcast

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

offers something wholly different.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

The lost art of simple human storytelling.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Whether humorous tales, absurd narratives, or real

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

drama, telling stories is my stock in trade.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

So escape to the very human Mishke podcast.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Wherever you get your podcasts this summer, don't squeeze in. Spread out. Find homes big enough for your whole guest list on VRBO. That's vacation rentals done right. Book your stay now.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Schoonoverbodyworks.com let's just watch these two.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It's theater in here, Kenny. It's absolute theater in here.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, Jay, you tend to do a better off. Will you just talk about everything on the air that you talk about off the air?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It's me. It was me talking, he says. So I'm going to tell this on the air because he.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

He says, I can't believe that Liz is such a straight arrow. And I said, oh, God, Jay, you don't know the half of it is. So we were a couple years ago, we were at Candace Owens show and she has it out of Nashville. And I love Nashville. I've been down there with the boys and the bikes, which was one hell of a lot more fun than being there with my wife.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You like it if she can listen to this?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

If I had to pick one state, by the way, to move to, it would be Tennessee.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It's wonderful. It's great. And what I want to do down there is go to a football game in the afternoon and then bar hop my way up to hockey arena, go to a hockey game at night.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Oh, it'd be fun.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But Nashville's terrific, man.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They bring us down there. It's great. You know, I love Nashville. And we, the day before, we're there and we get in, it's late afternoon. We go. We're sitting on Jason Aldean's rooftop with the spot, the corner down there. My favorite bar is Jason Aldean's and Old Red and John Rich's Place and Kid Rock. All right. In the same area. But we're having a. I'm having a time of my life, listening to great music. Rooftop, beautiful day, having a couple beers and it's like eight o'. Clock. And she's. We got to go back to the room. And I go, for what? She's. We got to prepare for tomorrow. I go, you don't even know what the hell she's going to ask you. How are you going to prepare? You're going to study notes. We're on. I go, what is wrong with you? And then even today, you guys, she's going, she starts on me yesterday. What are you going to do? Do you have your talking points down? Like. Well, I didn't know what they're going to talk. We're going to talk when we get there. And she's fun. You got to have a, a rehearsal and. Oh my God, I, I. What are you gonna say? Don't get nothing that can, you know, get us in sued. Get, get, get me sued or I gotta, I gotta, you know, say anything and get a suit. Don't threat, don't threaten anybody. Don't threaten anybody.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You can threaten Kenny and Jay, but nobody else.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And oh, Liz, come on, man.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I had no idea.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, my God. She's like, go over. We. And then one more thing. She, we. We went up to a Brander Lakes College. We had a, A asked to speak up there as some students and stuff in an event just, just in the past year. It was, it was us two and, and Booker Hodges, the chief of Bloomington panel. So great guy. Well, they said, we want to have the other side. I said, well, that's great. You're going to, you're not going to get it out of Booker.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

No. Right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So I don't. Because they thought he's the chief and I'm a union guy. We're not going to see it through the same lens.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Booker looks at the camera and says, I will catch you. You are doomed.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And then pull the picture up and Go. You should have never come to you.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I'm gonna find you.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, it's my kind of cop, man. I want that out of a cop again.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

We're going up to this thing and we each had, like, I think it was 20 minutes to open up. Yeah. And she's like, okay, I got my PowerPoint ready, and I've got my. She goes, I want to hear you rehearse with me. What? You're going to go. And I said, I've been going to say shit with you. I'm going to go up there and I'm going to do like I always do. Wing it.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Right? Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I don't ever prepare. I don't do nothing. And I. I said, I'm not.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That ain't me.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So we get up there and sure, we had 20 minutes. And they. They were. They said they wanted to adhere right to the time.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, Liz opened up and she talked for 35 minutes. And I. So I said, well, my wife was concerned about what I was going to say, so I have five minutes, and here. And now I've started and I'm done. And I looked at her and I go. And I. And then I.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's kidding.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So I went right to. I went to write to 19 minutes and 32 seconds. And I said, without any preparation. How's that?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Nice.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

When Trump came to town, I did opening remarks for him when he was running for reelection. And that day I spent probably four hours scratching out, no scratching. Going, what am I going to do here as a nervous wreck for. I'm usually not nervous for this stuff, but it's. And I was the president, and I'm a nervous wreck. And I walked into the Target center and there was the fullest I've ever seen. It was the crazy. If I've ever. I've ever seen. And I've been in Target center, obviously, a number of times. Yeah. I walked in, looking at that crowd and took those notes I had through crumpled up and threw it away, and I winged it.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And it was probably better than what you had in the notes.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I can't wait to see her the next time I see her. Hey, why don't you live a little bit, Liz?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Come on.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Is that what President Trump does, too? It seems to me that he just likes to go up there and wing it.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Hit. He. And they try to keep him on script, but, you know, he's got the thing right there, the teleprompter, and he goes off. He goes off again, you can tell, which is why he goes so long.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And it's so funny when he's trolling people and they bite on that hook. They bite real hard. And I'm sitting there laughing, and then they get mad, and then I'm laughing at them because they don't realize they're hanging on a hook. You've been trolled. You bit on the hook. Hook. And now you look like the dummy.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yep.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

He does it masterfully. He just trolls everybody. When he said Gulf of America, he never was serious about that. He never was. He was never serious about Canada being the 51st state.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But he knew it would get him going, and it got him going.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Amps him up.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And you notice they don't talk about it anymore. I mean, it's just. They just jump from one thing to another. President. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Was it for you? Was there a moment? Because in all seriousness, when we were talking a little bit before we started, I experienced some of it, but not to the degree you did about the. You know, first of all, we were both. You were the most hated man in America. I might have been. Second, for a little while.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well. And a lot of it stems from opening remarks at Trump. He called us on stage. We had a big welcome thing. But that's what there. That's where I began to be the villain. And then prior to that, I was outspoken for cops. When they were.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Correct.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, and I tried explaining to people, Bob, that as the union president, it's his job to defend cops. Due process is all part of this.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Exactly.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You can't. In fact, if you gave Bob Kroll a grade for defending cops, if you gave him anything less than an A, you're not paying attention to what his job is. Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Enforce the labor agreement.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Enforce the labor agreement. That's not something you people forget. When the city council's complaining about this 30 million, $40 million facility, the training facility. I told Kenny they were the ones who wanted to defend the police and they wanted better training and better reform. Then they go to do something like that. Well, we can't spend 40 million on reform and the training. Right. It's always this contradiction about what they expect and want from you guys.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well. And they've got the 40 million put away because they've been running with half the police department. They haven't been forever.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And then they started complaining about the overtime during Operation Metro Surge again. What do you want if you have a police force? That's according to Rondo Chief arredondo. He wanted 1200 by 2025 or something. Like that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And I specifically remember he wanted, and this was in the honeymoon stage when Rondo took over. First of all, the Federation endorsed Fry behind the scenes with the agreement, he would quietly Give us 100% more.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Never. We got like single digits.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You never got anywhere near the hundred.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But then Rondo in the honeymoon stage, we're hovering right around 900.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And he said, I want 400 more over a five year period to be where we need to be by national standards.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And so by today's standards we should be at 12 to 1300.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet. You bet. Well there he want, he wanted to go to 1300 back then.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

400 on top of the 900, 1300 just to be normal. And now the numbers are 600 not even.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean that's five that's puffed up

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

and they got 70 plus CSOs. Community service officers are counting. And guess what? You're paying them.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They don't count.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

No. And you're paying them to go to school and whatnot.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I'll never forget it because I was tipped off. Maybe we might have been from you for all I know is that Rondo was going to make this push for the extra 400 to get to see. He wanted to get to 12 or 1300 eventually. And so I approached him in the hallway when he was walking down the hallway with Fry. And to Rondo's credit, he sat there and gave me the interview. And I distinctly remember that because it was pre George Floyd. And the reason I remembered it was because he was nice enough to give me the interview and confirm that he wanted to get to 12 or 1300. And now I think back to that interview and the story I did, Bob, because if they say we're down 300 from where we should have been when we had 888, when we had almost 900. And in my head I keep thinking, no, no, no. If you go back to what Rondo wanted to do, there are actually about six or seven hundred cops down from where they should be and nobody, I don't know, we've talked about it on this show. I don't know how many people have pointed that out elsewhere in the media. I'm sure Liz has reported on it. But it's not down 300. No, it's not even close, Bob.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It's half. And I mean the numbers themselves, the overhead they have is crazy. Now I had a career where you had a chief of police, three deputy chiefs, five precinct commanders and two captains and the rest were lieutenant sergeants and Officers. Now you've got a commissioner of public safety, a chief of police. That was for 900 cops back then.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Now you got a commissioner of public safety, chief of police, two assistant chiefs, five deputy chiefs, 20 appointed commanders.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

There's so many commanders, I can't keep track of them, Bob.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And there's about 250 cops in the street.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yep, that's right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And that's, you know, and they're kind of hamstrung because percentage wise, contractually, when I was there, we used to have work out of class grievances. This guy's doing sergeant's work. It's investigations, blah, blah. So we put in a ratio and basically 4.5% of the authorized or actual strength. Whatever's higher has to be lieutenants. And that same formula, only 23.25 for Sergeants. So they're still hamstrung off their authorized numbers.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Got it.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So many of these are brass. There's literally one for one supervision for officers, numbers wise. That's insane. It's insane.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's insane. And here's the other thing. Crazy thing about that city council. Kenny and I talked about it last time. So they're. They're. They're moaning about this standby pay, right?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Overtime and standby pay.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Overtime and standby pay, yeah. And we did a whole show, almost a whole show on it. I think it was Chug Tai and a couple of other of the socialists who said so they're there to do. They're getting paid to do nothing. Right? Well, which is not entirely true, but

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

yeah, they were acting obtuse, Jay. They knew the answer, but they were acting.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It was such a mischaracterization of what standby means. Right, but think of this, Kenny. To Bob's point, when there's a union contract, Bob's job as the union president is to enforce the contract, right? To make sure the contract is upheld and defend cops even there. You know, I'm not gonna put words in your mouth. I'm sure there were some cops you might not even wanted to defend. But you had to do it. You had to do it. And okay, so now they're upset with the standby stuff and the overtime stuff, but it's in the contract that that city council agreed to.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Exactly.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They don't even know what's in the contract that they agreed to, Bob.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And, you know, they wanted to make me the devil. I negotiated eight labor agreements over my 25 years on the board. It never had to go to arbitration. They were all signed off and agreed upon. So they put in their tweaks. We put in our tweaks. We mutually agreed. This is your contract. It was your working document. We may have known it better because the administration kept changing and we had a lot of stability on the federation.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's part of the strategy.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And so how is it they can be so evacuous to not understand that what they were complaining about on the dais at that city council meeting was something they had already agreed to.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Correct. Or their predecessors.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Or their predecessors. But when's the last contract, though? Last contract was two years ago.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I'm trying to think now if they are. You know, I've been gone over five years now. It's tough to. I started.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I think the last contract was two, maybe three years ago.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I think they're coming. This is probably in their final year.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, I think so.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They're going to start again.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So most of those council members were there for that vote on that contract, and now they're bitching about it. And as a reporter, I would have loved to have been reported. I'm not doing it anymore. I would have loved to gone up to him after the city councilman and go with a camera going, but you signed off on this contract, and now you have a problem with it. But nobody does that anymore. Nobody holds them to anything.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So, you know, they just let them

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

get away with that bs.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And, of course, perception is reality. So their supporters, when they hear them say that, they buy it, cheer them on.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And they're a bunch of idiots.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Idiots. But he. He. Had you mentioned Nakima Levy Armstrong.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

What's her name now? She was Nika Levy Pounds back in the day. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Now she Armstrong.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

We nicknamed her Many Pounds.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Right. Well, she.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Was you fired?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

She wanted me.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh. She sued me afterwards, a whole editorial

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

in the Star Tribune about why I should be fighting.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I was like, man, was that

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

for that pointer thing, Jay?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, Pointer gate. Pointer gate, yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Where you didn't theorize at all.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

No.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You just reported. All you did was report.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And they said Delmonaco fed me the story. The former union boss at the time. And Delmonaco did not give me any story. He called me the day before, I think, or the day of the story was gonna air. John calls me and he goes, hey, are you gonna air that thing on. You know, everybody hated Mayor Betsy because she's an idiot. Right. And worst mayor in the history of Minneapolis.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I agree.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Not even close.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

So dumb. It's painful. It's embarrassing.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And so Delmonico calls me and Says, I hear what you're working on. And I said, yeah, I didn't think it was. I thought it was a story. I didn't think it was a huge story by any stretch.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I kind of chuckled at it a little bit because Hodges is that stupid to let that guy do. He was doing. People made fun of me as a white guy afraid of gangs. But he was doing the Stick Up Boys thing. He was.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It was what it was. He didn't misreport anything. No, exactly.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And he was trying to. He does it three times trying to get her to do the Stick Up Boys thing because they were a violent gang. Kenny, I know all about him. And he. And he was a Glock boy, which was not even a real gang. So he was trying to up his credibility. And Delmonico calls me, goes, I want in. I want to give a sound bite. You got room for a sound bite?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Really? Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So I said, sure, John. If you want in, I'll come up.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So it made it look like you two were in cahoots.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So then Del Monaco had one sound bite in the story, and they said Del Monaco planted it. It was all the union. Del Monaco was racist. I was his little racist puppy. On and on and on and on. And so.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

But you know what really pissed me off after that? Mr. Hubbard was giving some sort of journalism speech at the U of M. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

He was over at Augsburg.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Augsburg. He was over at Augsburg and end getting shouted down by these complete morons who should have just as well be yelling, I'm really stupid. I'm the dumbest ass in town. It was so stupid. Well, Ken, Mr. Hubbard dealt with him.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

He. At one point, the guy was. Some guy in the crowd was yelling, j. Coles is a racist who needs to be fired. Yeah. And Mr. Hubbard stopped and said, what'd you just say? And he said, jay Coles is a racist and it needs to be fired. And he goes. He goes, j. Cole's a racist. That's ridiculous. Next question. Next question. I love Mr. Holmes for that, but it's still that way to this day. Six, seven, eight, nine years later, whatever the hell it is, where everything is about race with that city council. And even if you have a legitimate concern about something or a legitimate criticism, it does not matter if you're a middle aged white guy, say it. You're doomed. You're doomed.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

They never let the facts get in the way of their narrative.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. It's all about the narrative.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

What were the years you were Union president again?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

15 to 2121.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So right before 22. So you would have had. So you'd have been what, Rondo? No, you'd have been Harto, Chief Harto. Yeah, Harto, then Rondo.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It was Harto. But see, I was vice. It runs together because I was vice president for nine, 10 years prior and I was a director for nine or 10 prior to that. But yeah, I made it. I was elected president under Harto and then Rondo. Maybe don't. Maybe a little bit under Dolan, but I don't think so. Nah, maybe if you were under Dolan

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

it would have been maybe the last year under Dolan.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

You weren't McManus. McManus. You would have been on the board.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, I was on the board with McManus. I was vice president under McManus who was.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

There was only one Chief. Harto didn't like me toward the end.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Harto didn't like any heterosexual, heterosexual white males.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, it was weird. She started out okay with me. By the end, Bob, she did not like me. But who was the guy from New York he did not like?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That was Olsen. Olsen, he didn't like me either. That's.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, he was an outsider from New York who just didn't.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Now McManus came from D.C. yes, but he was.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I kind of liked McManus.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

McManus was, I, I can say now was a good out of all of them. He was a real cop.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yes, I would agree with that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

He was a real cop. He and I got along well and did a lot and solved a lot of grievances. Well behind the scenes, you know, he'd win some, I lose somebody else. The joke. I always used to say, hey, why don't we have a deal where we can do like three strikes a year? The administration fires three cops and the Federation has no right to grieve it. I go the department be so much better. Like you said earlier, sometimes you gotta deal with people that are nothing but trouble.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Nothing but trouble. But it was your job.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But you have to.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And here's the other thing, Kenny, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know if you had a unanimous vote from your membership, but it was close, wasn't it?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, from as president of the union, I In the president role. Yes, I won hand. It was an election and I mean it was, but it was a. I was handily.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It was, it was like a landslide.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And then a guy ran against me the next time and I ran, I one handedly in fact, my third term as president, the Guy that ran against me nominated me and I was white balloted, so he was on the board.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So wait, wait, I didn't understand. So he ran against you, but nominated.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

So I ran against Del Monaco. I was his VP for years and I. And this, we had a succession plan and then all of a sudden John wasn't gonna leave, so push came to shove so I ran against John and we were good friends. I mean for years and years. And you talk about biking. We went to Sturgis together. I mean we did a lot of stuff together, but he had a job lined up and then another job lined up, gonna leave, gonna retire. And in my opinion and others that he, he wasn't working very hard for us anymore. The fight was gone and you're just coasting. Oh, like I ran against Sean and I won handily. And then Corey Fitch, who was the secretary on the board, he ran against me and I won. And then the next year around we thought, how's this going to go now that we in a battle? And no, we had to sit down and come together. Came to the conclusion he nominated me for my third term. Interesting, because I was white balloted then.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I think what's important to note about that, Kenny, and for the listeners to understand is if you were such this racist, sexist white guy running the union, how could you get 90% vote of the membership which is made up of Asians, Hispanics, blacks, gays, straights?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Correct.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So how does a racist.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It's funny because you get elected like that. Mike Griffin, a black officer who had been in trouble a number of times and I actually really went to the wall for him and I actually got called out by a lot of people by backing him so much and, and he had some old white lady come up to him once. And I just feel so terrible for you. You gotta work for that racist Crow guy. He goes, you talking about Bob Crow? He goes, I love that man.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, I tried to explain to people there's no way he's getting 90% of the union vote if he's what you say he is. It didn't make any sense.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Do you bother to defend yourself against those allegations, Bob, or did you just let them have their peace?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, it, now I'm much easier going, but that was a problem. You know, you talk about John Thompson, we haven't talked. I knew he came up in Liz's

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

thing, but I just watched that clip before we started from your front yard. My God, I can't believe that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

With him I sat on panels in the Community with him. I was always in my role as a federation president and even as a vp if they wanted me to go to some. I sat next in a. In a community room next to the third Precinct. Not in the precinct, but the building next, with Thompson on a panel and let citizens come in and ask us, because guess what? I like making them look stupid in front of their own audience. And he wasn't too tough to outwit. But we had a working relationship to the point of six months prior to him protesting at my house before the COVID lockdown and things like that. I ran in. I came out of the loom after having lunch with some business owners down in Minneapolis. Yeah. Owned by Tim Mahoney.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

He's got a loon over and he's

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

got one here, but yeah, Tim's a great guy. I had lunch there and I come walking out and Thompson is across the street with his wife. And he comes running across the street. Hi, Officer Crow. How are you? I want to introduce you to my wife. You know, that's. Oh, God, yes. It was such a poser, such a fraud. So he came over. Hi, how are you? All this. And then he's on my front yard doing this garbage.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Breaking a pinata.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right, right. And it's. But. And the Democrats didn't condemn him for it.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

No.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But we haven't seen him since then.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

On gl, we kind of accuse those kind of people of trying to profit from the race war, basically.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah. Where they're just trying to drum this up for their own.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

There's no racism. They don't have a job.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, he's got enough problems as his one son killed those five Somali people in the car crash and he tried to blame it on his brother.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yes.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Okay, we have a piece of audio. I want to take a break here, but we have a fun piece of audio with John Thompson. And I want to talk to you about Warner Stock. But when we get back, I'll have Chris play it for you. I don't know if you've noticed, but everybody's gone fishing, and that's okay. But when you get sick of that rig that you're in, keep in mind Warner Stock in New Richmond, Wisconsin, and Skeeter Boats still offering early season rebates right now. Not only can you find your new [e-mail], you also have your pick of new Alumacraft and Premier Pontoons, just to name a few. They have quite the lineup. And if you want to upgrade that current fishing boat or pontoon they'll take your trade in and they'll even purchase used fishing boats up to 15 years old. We're talking four generations of family running Warner stock in New Richmond, Wisconsin. So they are committed to an amazing experience for you and your family. And they do it all. Sales, service, storage, all your boating needs. They can do repairs, engine swaps, electronic equipment installation, trailer stocks, you name it. All of your needs met right there at Warner's dock. We know it's expensive, and they certainly do. And we can trust Warner stock to take care of every step along the way and keep us on the water all season long. They're right there in New Richmond. And on the Web, Warner Corners, doc.com. chris, do you have that audio?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Not only. Kenny, do I have the audio. I am ready for you, sir.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Okay, I'll. If you're rolling, I'll just pick it up, sir. Okay, Bob. We play this every opportunity we can get on. On Garage Logic. I believe this was a recording and it might be fake. And I don't care if it's fake, because it's awesome.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Not only is it not fake, it was submitted by a mole inside of the Capitol. That. That is a fan of the show.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Were they doing a roll call, Chris, or was it a vote?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yes, they were doing roll call. And this was back a couple years ago when they were still allowed to vote, working from outside of the Capitol.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Listen to this. Bob

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Morrison.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Morrison, aye.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Morrison, aye.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Mortensen.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Mortensen. No.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Mortenson. No. Sandell. Sandell I. Sandell, I. Thompson. Thompson, I. Thompson, I Mecklin.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I don't. I don't care if somebody made that in their studio or if it was real. It's my favorite piece of audio ever that tells the whole story, so I should apologize.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They were voting, but some of them were voting on this particular bill. It was a roll call vote. Roll call vote that they were. Some were voting on remotely. I don't even care if it's fake. Yeah, no, it doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter, Genius. Either way. Let's hear one more time. Morrison. Morrison, I Morrison, I. Mortenson.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Mortenson. No.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Mortenson. No. Sandell, I. Sandell, I. Thompson.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Thompson, I. Thompson, I. I picture him running.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Oh, shit, that's so good. Well, it kind of sums it up, doesn't it?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, you know, insult the injury. He got elected in my old neighborhood, east side of St. Paul.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's your old neighborhood.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I didn't know he's at Johnson area. I should say Lower east side. I Knew he was Upper east side, but nonetheless, to see him get elected there and back in my day, he wouldn't have got elected there.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I'm curious, how is it in Minneapolis and you didn't become a St. Paul cop? How did that happen? Right? I mean, what east side got, how long he got?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, background investigation.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I knew you too well from the east side. We can't have him.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But no, actually, I was on both hiring lists on Minneapolis, and I would have had to leave eight weeks into the academy. And I had a cadre officer by the name of Tim Pearl that said, I know some of you are on that St. Paul hiring list, and if you take my training, I will hunt you down and kill you. And if you go to St. Paul, I said you can take my name off that list.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Take it off.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I didn't want to repeat the academy again.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Anyway, I got you. Well, I couldn't figure how an east side St. Paul guy ended up with Minneapolis cop, but. Makes sense.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

So we had Rainville on. Was it last week?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Was it last week?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Maybe it was longer than that. And he used the phrase. He referred to George Floyd as being murdered. And I don't think I forwarded any of the emails to you, Jay, but we got called on the carpet for allowing Rainville to say that Michael was

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

on and said that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And we've had a number of Minneapolis officials on and they've said that they use the word murder.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Murdered.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And I just wondered kind of what you thought about that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, my. Well.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, I think I know why Mike has to say what he has to say, but go ahead.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You know, you got to look at the evidence by Liz's book. They're lying. The media, the left, and the death of George Floyd. But, you know, you know, and I don't have. Was he murdered? Absolutely not. Was it an overdose? Absolutely. Was it a fair trial? No way. That thing should have been held up in the northern tip of Minnesota in some court to make people. I mean, there was no way that there wasn't jury intimidation or a possibility of you had the wrong people get on the jury. We go on. This could be a whole show. But could have things been handled better, much better that day? And I mean, and a lot of it goes back to Harto's stupid policies that have continued to be regurgitated. Pinning the supervisors down on nonsense office work, you know, evaluations and metrics of your people. And all the street bosses are tied to their computers inside there when they should be in patrol cars outside Overseeing this stuff. And that was the case in there. The street sergeant of that was in the precinct when it happened. And it used to be your sergeants were out there on patrol watching what the officers were doing, saying, hey, don't do this. That very intersection. I was a patrol sergeant in third precinct. My favorite precinct was third as a patrol officer and a patrol sergeant there. But that very intersection, I had an off duty cop working at cup foods. I had an off duty cop working at Super America, working off duty for the stores. There was a shooting that occurred outside. These two leave their off duty jobs in uniform, get involved, have a shootout with the suspect. I was the first car into the scene. As a sergeant, I wrote help take the guy into custody. Wrote those two officers up for awards. But you're there, right? And the garbage policies that a new administration comes in and doesn't say, this is a waste of time, we're not doing that anymore. Get the cops out on patrol have never changed and they've only gotten worse and worse and worse and worse. But they're against any. And the guys I really felt bad for were those two brand new cops. Oh yeah. Lane and King.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Lane and King.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They were right. They were right off. They just graduated off FTO and Lane

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

jumped in the ambulance, tried to help save his life.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah. All it took for someone is like, get him. And Liz goes, how would you have done that? And I said, for starters, all this resistance and stuff at the beginning, I said, he would have been ripped down. It would have looked like for the first 20 seconds, but they would only got their phones up for 10 seconds. He would have been in handcuffs and he would have been down in jail and down and done and not any of this. Let them out of the squad car. But that was just an experience. I always say I would have thrown in the back of the squad and raced 10 blocks north to Abbott Northwestern at 28th in Chicago and let them dive an overdose there if they couldn't bring them back. Because that's what it was.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

The documentary that Liz was involved with, I learned so much. And number one, the knee thing that if I remember right, some assistant chief. What's that gal's name?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Katie Blackwell.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

She testified that that was not an official maneuver or taught when in fact it was. Right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They have photos. Photos of her doing it.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

And then the second part of that is I believe there was. Now, you might have to correct me on this, but it's my memory that there's body cam footage from an officer from a different angle that clearly shows that the knee was not on the neck. But the, and I might be wrong here. That footage was not allowed in court. It was not allowed.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

No. There were so many decisions there to not allow things in. And moreover, they pulled those three pages of the training manual offline afterwards, which showed putting the, I did the training, putting the knee on the neck. And the reason it was not allowed in was because they said they had no proof that Chauvin signed in and participated in that training. And I'm going, I don't know. That was the reason. That was the reason the judge wouldn't allow. Well, guess who has custody of the training records. The police administration. If they're going to pull three pages of the policy offline, you don't think they're going to pull the attendance sheet out before they turn it over. Right. So there's that. And I said, I can guarantee you he was there because guess what? If he missed training, he would have been in internal Affairs.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

For missing the training. And where were you?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It was mandatory.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That never happened. Yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Another thing that stuck out there was. Is it correct that the fire department responding went to the wrong address?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yes. There was trouble in communication. There was a communications person that was too busy snitching off what the cops were doing and not paying attention to location. There was some, some of that in there. They went to the wrong location. The, the people intervening the, or interfering there. One of them was a firefighter. I would have said, well, if you're a Minneapolis fire, jump on and start CPR right now. There's just so many things that could,

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

it was, it was a.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Done differently. Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Who? Yeah, my, I, I, I actually was given her name before it was public and was able to track her down. I wanted to talk to her and get an interview to get her side of it, and she declined. Yeah. And the one thing I wanted to ask her if I would have gotten a chance was if you're in that situation as a firefighter, wouldn't it just

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

be jump in, jump?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean, I thought that would have been the obvious question to ask.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I never got to ask it because the way the training is, the paramedics are trained, highest level, obviously, and then fire and then police. So I was doing cpr. An infant one time. I just got there and the firefighter came in and ripped and ripped the baby right out of my arm. They're better, they're better at it.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I gotta ask you, since third Precinct, you mentioned third precinct was your favorite precinct to work in. Right.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Hands down.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Watching it burn. What was that like for you?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It was rough. I got calls from my buddies that said, God save this precinct. How can. That was.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You know.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, we had a. We had a nickname in that area. They called us the third Precinct Cowboys. But we were cocky. But guess what? There was. We worked hard and we played hard, and there was a lot of, oh,

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

my God, you guys were awesome. When I was living there and I saw two cops sitting in a car, just relaxing or doing paperwork, I would roll right up on them and start telling them all the shit that's going down in the park. To get up to Sibley right now, there's a bunch of kids up there shouting the fuck bomb. And you got to make it stop. They just laugh at.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It's not Sibley anymore, is it?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

No, now it's the 40th Street Park.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, 40th Street Park.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Sibley was so evil.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

The high school name went. The park name went the whole. The whole night.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You know, that, that's. And I get down to Minneapolis, still doing security stuff here and there. But I sit and I look at the other day, I was downtown and I'm looking at these skyscrapers, and I'm going, you know, do you think that the founding fathers of this city that built these skyscrapers from grand ground up, really had envisioned a city council that's in charge of this city like this right now? And knowing that they were just toxic masculinity and disposable heterosexual white males? Honestly, it's like you just. Can you erase history?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's what they want to do, you

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

know, and the same thing with these parks, Calhoun and Sibley. Come on, give me a break.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Would you know, I've always wanted to know the answer, and I've gotten many different answers in the end. To let the third Precinct burn. Fry or Rondo, who makes that call? It's gotta be Fry, correct?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

As a mayor, I don't even know. But remember, well, supposedly the National Guard was calling. They made that decision. Jay. We were sitting down at a board meeting that Thursday at 2 o' clock for a board meeting, and Rich Walker comes in. He's still on the board now, but he was on my board that and assigned a third Precinct. And we had already got the word. I go, rich, skip the board meeting. Go get your stuff out of third Precinct. They're giving it away tonight. That was knowledge throughout the day. And then they deny it. Wow. And I'm like. When I sat down and my board's telling me, go, you're not serious. We're not giving nothing away. And they're like, no, no, no serious. And Cheryl, who's my VP now, she's the president. She's going, no, Rich. And I go, I can't believe this is happening. Happening. But precautionary. Rich, go clean your locker out just in case too. Because they're having everybody get their personal stuff out. This is 2pm on that Thursday they held the National Guard back. There's no way. If you would have given me and my old third Precinct middle watch there and let give me full authority were in my SWAT roll of 4th. I can assure you that place would not have burnt down and not been given. It would have not been given out. There may have been some casualties, but it would have not been given up. No. And it shouldn't have been and should never not. No.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I truth ever come out? Will people ever change their mind?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Liz wrote about it, did a documentary about it. But I mean, you know, it's disappointing to hear Michael Rainville sit in your show and say murder. It's like, come on, this was the biggest fraud.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I don't think he has any choice. He has to. Well, otherwise they're going to come after.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Part of it is the politics of it. As a city council council member.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

True kiss of death for getting reelected, I would assume.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And in the court of law, which Mike is a city council member has to recognize.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, that's what it is there. I mean it's not a fair trial by any way shape or form narrative

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

over facts and reality.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I was surprised when they decided to let the third Precinct go. I never ever thought that, that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That they would give up a police

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

compound for any reason. Any piece of police property. I was surprised. I don't know if surprise is the right word. I would not have been surprised. I guess is the way to put it. Had a cop lost his life, his or her life there.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They were very lucky because they were

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

lucky to get out when they.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Oh, you bet.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I have friends that were.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I've been told stories that I couldn't

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

report on on the way out that

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

they were almost not making it out.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet. You bet.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Bob, what about the notion of professional protesters agitators?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, complete pay. Look, look out at no further than recent the Whipple Building. Those people are not out there out there. And we, and I do, you know, I do some security stuff here and there and so I was close to that. They would have never seen me out there. But we do executive protection things that kind of of stuff. These people are out there talking about where they're staying. We got a deal on an apartment here. We got a deal at a hotel here. We're at an Airbnb here. They are 100% on the payroll, not 100% of the people, but the organizers, the ones in charge, the ones that lead the operation.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2020. Potential savings will vary.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Come from all over the country. They're on the payroll. They openly talk about where they're living, what they're getting paid.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That's the interesting. What you just said is what I was going to add to the conversation. Not all of them are paid. That's not true. Some are, yes. Some of the organizers, yes. And they will openly talk about, talk

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

about where they're staying, a good deal and whatnot.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And then if you were to say that, that or report it, you'd be in all kinds of trouble.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They're openly admitting they're coming in here. I admit it. So I don't understand what which is which.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I don't take the long way home from work and I would end up on Minnehaha Parkway and between Hiawatha and 28th. It was like, have you ever been to West Yellowstone during the season and you see license plates from every single state? That's what it was. It was all these outstate vehicles parked along the park Parkway. It was crazy.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

There's that. And then the other subgroups of that are your 60s and 70s hippies that never ever got out of mom's basement and they're still smoking their dope and this is part of their continuation of their worthless life. And. Cause they're out there. There's that group and then there's just your other lost souls or mentally ill individuals. That. That is their sense of belonging. They've never played team sports. They've never had any kind of camaraderie. They've got Absolutely nothing going on.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

This is their teen now.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

This is. Yeah. This is their cause and their sense of belonging. I'm like, are you kidding me? It's 20. I don't, I wouldn't even go snowmobiling today and have a few beers with the guys on sleds. I wouldn't even leave the house in front of the fire. What are you doing standing out here? I mean, I'm getting paid well to be here and I don't even want to be here. Correct.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I, I saw a lot of gray beards like me from the 60s and 70s. I grew up in the 70s as a teenager and I remember thinking to myself, they're my age. What are they doing out there? If there was a cause I believed in, I wouldn't. In 20 below box.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Exactly. That's the thing. But that is these people, there's a lot of mental illness involved. And this is their self worth and sense of belonging. And certainly the big thing, they don't have to go to work. Right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Apparently a few of them had time on that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Am I off time? I'm not doing anything like that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

No, no.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I want to go have our governor during that time. I was stunned to find later that his daughter was tweeting and on social, giving away secrets that she had learned from her dad, like the National Guard isn't going to be called tonight, et cetera, et cetera. And then I don't know how much longer after this all went down where Gwen, his wife. Wife. Said she opened the windows because she loved the smell of the burning buildings and tires.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

The tires burning.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That actually came from my interview with her.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

That was you?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, I did a sit down with her, like a long form piece, about three minutes. Like, what was it like in the governor's mansion for the family?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You got her to say that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So I didn't.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I will kiss you on the mouth the next time I see you.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, it was funny because that was done in the summer. And she, during the interview, she. I said, what was it like? And she gave up the. You know, I could smile. And then that clip started showing up all across the country in social media. I had friends in other states saying, is that the back of your bald head? Is she talking to you? And I said, yeah. I did an interview with her when

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

she said our town burned down, Lake street burned down. And it made her happy.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, well, she was just, wow. I don't know how happy she was, but I know what you're saying it was, and it was an interesting quote from her. I never thought it would ever end up being what it was on social media. But. Yeah, that was actually from my interview. Yeah, that was from my interview with her. Yep. Crazy.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It's the same out here, Bob. I'm in Douglas county and I've run into a bunch of deputies and talked to them, and they feel the same thing the Minneapolis guys feel. There was a period where I was doing the cops a favor at the local convenience store. And I told the employees, you cannot tell any note, don't tell any troopers, any deputies, any police officers where this came from. Well, one of them being a, you know, a cop, got it out of them, found my phone number, called me, started talking to me and was almost in tears because of the way I appreciated them and how most of the local records residents hate them in Douglas County. In Douglas bleeping County.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I'm surprised by that.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, so was I.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, well, like I said, I came from family members being cops. I've known cops my whole professional career. And I tried telling people, look, they're no different than any other part of the segment of society. You got bad journalists, you got bad lawyers, you got bad. There's going to be bad cops. It's. But 90% or great.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

My cousin is a cop, and he's a cop because he loves helping people.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yes, 100%. 100%. It's just. Again, that's why right around. I'll be honest with you, shortly after my whole thing with being called racist and my life threatened and my family's life threatened and my job threatened, I consciously made an effort. I said to myself, I'm gonna find stories. I'm damned if I'm gonna. Now the pendulum swung too far. Defund police, hate police. And I really tried to present the other side as best I could because I just thought it was so wrong what was happening. And it still continues today.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

It's still, and it seems like certain news outlets, Star Tribune, are more than happy to go along with that.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

It.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, there are some that do. And I, when I started as a reporter in 1981, Kenny, the relationship with media and the cops was so much different than it is. I mean, you know, I wouldn't say we were friends, we didn't hang out socially or anything, but professionally it was a friendship, if you will, and a trust level. And then, you know, 30, 40 years later, toward the end of my career, I couldn't believe. I couldn't believe I. I just. I would tell people who gave me griefs call me a cop lover. This that and the other. And they said things about you and I and whatever. And I just said, you know, I said, I'll tell you what, then, if you feel that strongly, don't call 911 ever again.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, I would say, Bob, I would say things to Jay like when we'd be out back smoking. So Jay, is Bob a good kisser? Just to give him shit. Is there anything that you want to talk about here before we wrap up? Anything that you wish you could get out there?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Oh, God, Bob.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Probably too much. We don't have enough time to get all that out.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, you know, you get it. You get into the, the job and Floyd thing or the trial and all. I mean that's, that's a whole other show in of itself.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Oh, it is.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Like you mentioned, you know, they, you never heard about the, the cases that we didn't file grievances on of cops.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That we're doing stuff wrong that we said. And I have to call them in and go, listen, you're going to lose your job and we're not going to be able to save it. And here's why, here's why those conversations happen. But they would have you think that we went to the wall for everybody, for everybody. And, and you know, you come from the human race and you hit it. There's bad journalism, there's bad everything. You name a thing in the career where they're perfect.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Doctors, lawyers, priests.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Okay, I have a question.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

By and large, but by and large, they're good guys. And I've always said you should do so much work on the front end, on the quality people you hire, hire for character and train them to what you want them to be 100% rather than hire for diversity and hope for the best.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Why would would a current police officer in a media market. Rochester, Mankato, St. Cloud. Why would that officer want to come work for the Minneapolis Police Department? Tell me the good points.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, the same way I did and one of the reasons that I decided to stay with Minneapolis when I was hired, them coming to St. Paul, there's just more opportunity if you really want to do crime fight police work, the inner city is where it's at. There's more opportunities and I had a very blessed career. I mean before union stuff, most of my time union stuff was on the side. And I had great assignments, I had great partners. I was taken under the wing by legend cops right away. I was on the fast track for hanging around the good guys, getting good off duty jobs, getting involved in the Federation. Got on SWAT right away. I was on 15 years. I worked with some of the best people you'd ever meet. I was very blessed. But I had opportunities to work undercover. I had opportunities to get on because I was. I was on the vice squad. I was swat. There's that aspect. But knowing what I know about Minneapolis PD now and what they're allowed to do, I wouldn't say the only good part is the pay is good because there's nobody working. They mandate overtime. They had mandated double time. And I'm going, if I would have brought double time up at the contract negotiations table, I would have got laughed out of the room. It's not even a labor agreement. They force it on them now. So the good part about coming to Minneapolis is the money is there because they're extremely short. The bad part is the cops aren't doing anything and no one wants to go to work and do nothing. And the reason they're not doing nothing is they're told not to. I mean, you used to have to put statistics up. You wanted to be that guy on the bulletin board every month that had the highest felony arrests and the highest self initiated activity and these kind of things.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

The self initiated stuff is gone pretty much now.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They act like firemen. They sit in the barn and respond and they respond and most of the time the suspects are gone. They make a report. That's not police work. And you're not doing the citizens any favor working that way. But you can't blame the guys because you go to the wrong call, you're going to be put in prison or fired. So there's that. St. Paul's still got a good thing going. I said, if you want to be an inner city cop now come to St. Paul.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

He's got a great chief over there.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

The thing about St. Paul that they have never had an exterior chief all inside. And there is so much in the family there. It's family tradition. You've got dads and uncles and cops. Dads and uncles that are cops and grandpas that are cops. There's a lot of family tradition in St. Paul and that brings history with it. And leadership. Leadership seems to get along with management, gets along with the union much better, I think.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I mean, look at Ryan and Jones. Killed in action on the same day. Day with. Yeah, I think Laser was the dog's name.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yes.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Both had dads.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

On the force.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

St. Paul did something. I was listening on the scanner during the rioting and St. Paul police did something. And I think I heard the chief actually Come on. And he made his officers. I heard him tell his officers, when somebody says something threatening to you or vile, tell the dispatcher. So it was aired. So we heard the police officers repeating. And often you could hear them in the background being yelled at, but they would repeat word for word, I guess for the permanent record, Bob, what. How they were being treated, huh?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, with body cameras now, most of that's captured anyway.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

But was Minneapolis. I don't remember was Minneapolis. What's it. Was I listening to the two way on that or were they already encrypted?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They just recently went.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They were encrypted now, but.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

But okay, just recently.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Bob Fletcher in Ramsey county is not encrypted live on patrol.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, Bob's never a camera or microphone. He doesn't like. I love. I love Fletch.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Way back with Fletcher, when he was a St. Paul cop. I've known him that long.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

When you're in our business, we love Fletch.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You want to talk workaholic?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Oh, yeah. He was running for reelection.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I know. I was listening to him one night, he's on to one or two in the morning and I'm coming out of Walgreens and he stops me, he sees it's me. So I, I go, do you ever rest? I said, listen to you on the last night on your show when you're out here at 8 in the morning. Oh, I'm just going to get Chris breakfast. His wife, you know, I'm like, I have one.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I have one. One last question. I should save it off for off the air because it's not important, but I've wondered my whole life, what do SWAT guys do when they're not swatting? Seriously, are they in a patrol car or do they have other duties?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I was just gonna say they're drinking beer and chasing women.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Donuts and coffee. Beer.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

No, the way Minneapolis worked and it's way different now in that they send drones in ahead.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Because before.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

But I mean, I was. I got on SWAT right away when I had two years on, yet I have two years. So I got on the team in 91 and we were doing, you know, 700 crack raids a year. A year. Then, you know, so. But how it is, how it was then, you know, you try out, you get on the team. And your team are comprised of your specialty units. You know, your entry, your gas delivery, communications, snipers. But two months a year you were detailed, detailed to the high risk warrant team. And no matter what team you were on, you know, you bid for the year. So you would have a sergeant and five or six officers on an entry team. And all they did back then were the high risk entries. So most of them predominantly drug raids. But you do them for your murder suspects, your robbery suspects, those types of things too.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And I'm going to interrupt you right there.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Plan the raid and then execute it and go to the next one.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

When Kenny said wow, to 700 in a year.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Is because we don't cover all the successful stuff that goes on. I would never have guessed 700 in a year. But I know it's more busy than people realize. But that doesn't get a lot of coverage, Kenny, because they're doing it and executing it correctly.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They're not doing the volume.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

I'm glad I asked. My whole life I've thought the way all the SWAT guys are playing football and pool, sitting around looking at girly magazines and just waiting for the next

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

call that month you're detailed to the team and as the office officers. Yeah. If you weren't running point and going on the recon with the sergeant to look at the house you're gonna hit, that was more deep. But yeah. The other guys are in the precinct hanging around on their cell phones or catching up with whatever they're lift. They're working out. They did have downtime between raids and that's how.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

But how many times did you get shot at, by the way?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Twice on that.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

On the SWAT team.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

How many times? How many in all your years, how many times were you shot at?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Just those two on entries. There was the third time we didn't. I take it back three times. We shot back twice. I was shot at three times on entries. Only one time we did not shoot back.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Got it, Got it. So, but because the reason I ask is because I try to explain to people also when they criticize cops and don't like the cops and defund the cops, this, that and the other. My first thing is don't call 911 then ever again. Don't call. If you don't like them, don't call them. And then I also tell them how come you're not the one strapping on a kevlar, strapping on a gun every single day, walking out the door to face what they face. Why aren't you doing it? Oh, because you want someone else to do it.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Right, right.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

So that's why I was asking, how

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

many times did you do it?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, just three times in my career.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

The one was a record though. I mean the guy pointed at this is 96. It was my, my fourth time as a. Fourth day as a team leader. You do one month of training with a sergeant. This is my fourth day as a sergeant. And we hit the door and the guy's got a shotgun pointed at us and we shoot. Well, the outside perimeter team thought our bullets went through. They thought they were getting shot at. And it went back and forth until I called for a ceasefire. And it was horrible. But it was friendly fireback. Bad guy. We hit him right away.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Right, but you're getting friendly fire from the outside.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And they shouldn't have been shooting in the house and wasn't SWAT guys, that's. That did the perimeter. It was exterior units that did that. So there was one and then another one. A guy shot right past our head and pulled a woman over him in bed. And there was a baby next to him in the crib. And see, these are the things, people. We had to put our bullets between his knees and his belly button, if

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

you know what I mean.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, because he had her over the top.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Perfect.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And then another time, he ripped just one round off of us and ran in the basement, hid the gun.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

So, yeah, I, I've told many guests this before from Minneapolis, but before they went encrypted, I used to listen to the scanner and I would hear some of the calls that they would assign these officers to. And I would just sit here and go, don't, go, don't. Do not go to that call. Nothing good is going to happen there.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, you know, and it's, it's important to point out because people don't realize what you guys are up against.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

They don't realize it was fun time. You know, the camaraderie on SWAT was to none. And then particularly if you're a third precinct guy. And on swat, yeah, double fold. But it was, it was a lot of fun not getting shot at. But it's something you look back at football, no?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Well, you can look back and laugh, but if you don't laugh, you cry, right?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah, it's exactly right. Well, this has been good.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Thanks.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Well, we love the cops. When I lived in the third, we loved you guys. Occasionally one would. I'd be working out in my garage and one would stop in the alley and talk to me. And I said, do me a favor, turn on your lights, okay? Let's freak the neighbors out.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Well, you know, another thing people should do. They don't if they do them anymore, Bob, is to ride along once, go. Go spend a Friday night with a

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

guy not doing that no, I've done

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

it on many occasions. And it is eye opening. I bet what they go through. One thing that also struck me too, Bob, late in later years, after things started to change and the attitude towards police, I'll never forget, I was sent over to the north side for a fire. House fire. Pretty good house fire. Two homes are being evacuated. A lot of people at risk. We were going to another story. They diverted us. Go check this out and see how bad it is. Because two homes are being evacuated. One's fully engulfed, the other one's starting. I get there, there's a perimeter set up. And it got so bad toward the firefighters. The neighbors were picking on the firefighters. My guess is there was stuff in that house that they didn't want anybody to see or know about.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That's probably a good guess, but top.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Oh, wait, Jay. So the theory is they wanted it to burn so the evidence couldn't be found.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

There you go. Oh, wow. That's what they think. So it got real intense as I'm sitting there with a camera guy and I happen to be at one of the checkpoints, if we want to call it a checkpoint. I don't know how you would define it.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And there's two Minneapolis cops. And some of the Minneapolis cops knew who I was, even if I might not know who they were. Sometimes they say, hey, Jay, how you doing? I go, hey. I didn't know who they were, but apparently I had a good reputation among some cops. Apparently. Anyhow, there were a couple cops and they said, hi, and we chatt. And as I was getting ready to leave, I said, why are you here, by the way? And then they told me why. Because the firefighters were being threatened. They were here to protect them. All of a sudden, before I could get to the news vehicle, those cops, the two cops I had just been talking to, were approached by four people, I'm assuming connected to the house that was burning. Berating the cops, every name Effenheimer. This. I couldn't believe what was being said to them. And it was up close and personal. Cops kept thinking. And the guys turned around and walked away eventually. And I said, how do you guys do this?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And it never used to be that way. It never used to be that camera, too. But now they don't even know. There's just such a hatred for them and they don't know what they're doing. And I always say, you know, anyone that would stereotype anyone is wrong.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Correct. Okay, yes.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

And we get accused of stereotyping all the time. But guess What?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

They stereotype you guys all the time.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

All the time. Well, look no further than Floyd.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Incident. Incident?

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah, that Shavan was in prison. These guys weren't on the scene. They had nothing to do with it. But because they're wearing that same uniform, they're for a game for you to throw shit at guilty. Yep.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And on that day, it was, the cops are there to protect the doggone firefighters. And then they're getting grief from the neighborhood in the worst possible way. And I. And the cops kept their wits about them, never got upset, handled it perfectly, and everything was fine. But I could not believe what they had to put up with.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

When people see that. Because I see that all the time. Footage. You know, when you're watching a riot situation, are there people out there that see that and think, yeah, good for that guy? He's yelling at that cop. Because when I see that, I think, what did you. Oh, my God, you're so dumb.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

You're just. You're just an idiot.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I think the majority of people think like we do because we're not out there yelling at the cops. Right.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

And. But where do we go to speak up? I mean.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Right?

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

It's always the crazies that have the loudest voice. There are some that are saying, yeah, good for. For you. But I think they're in the minority.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Perception is reality, and narrative is more important than facts. Thanks, Bob.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

Yeah.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

That was fun for having me, guys.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

That was fun. That was good.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

I'll probably get in trouble from the wife when I get home.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

I can't wait to talk to her. I can't wait to talk to her.

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Thank you for Reavers. Filling in for. I've already forgot his name. Gabriel.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

He's in something like that, isn't he?

[Jay Coles (Host/Interviewer)]

Thank you, Bob. You're welcome. Thanks for listening to the Krabby Coffee.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

You bet.

[Chris (Co-host/Interviewer)]

We'll see you later.

[Bob Crow (Former Minneapolis Police Union President)]

Crabby coffee. We weren't too.