Garage Logic – CRABBY COFFEE : TERROR AND TRUE CRIME

Episode Date: December 18, 2025
Hosted by: Gamut Podcast Network

Episode Overview

This episode takes a hard look at current threats from both terrorism and true crime, with a focus on recent breaking news, unsolved crimes, and broader patterns in criminal and extremist behavior. The Garage Logic crew—Jay, Kenny, and guests—welcome former FBI agent and counterterrorism expert Eric O'Neill for a discussion of ongoing manhunts, shifts in terrorism, and cyber vulnerabilities. In the second half, true crime analyst and "Profiling Evil" host Mike King joins to unpack criminal motivations, recent high-profile murder cases, and the art of profiling.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Brown University Shooter Manhunt

(Eric O’Neill, 02:13–10:44)

• Current Status: The latest high-profile mass shooter remains unidentified and at large five days post-incident. A vast interagency manhunt is ongoing.
• Evidence Collection: Authorities are heavily utilizing campus surveillance (800 cameras), cell data, and public tips, but with only a few images of the suspect.
• Suspect Description: "A guy who's heavyset, about five, eight, who walks with a limp and is wearing a mask and a ski cap. So it's very hard to identify that person." (Eric O'Neill, 03:51)
• Challenges: Despite extensive digital evidence, the case is unique in the limited public release of visual material; speculation abounds but authorities remain cautious.
• Comparison: The manhunt and strategy are compared to the recent Charlie Kirk assassination case, highlighting the hope that someone familiar with the suspect will come forward.

2. Motive and Profile Speculation

(Jay & Eric O'Neill, 05:05–06:09)

• Evidence hints at a targeted attack, possibly ideological, but O'Neill is careful: "You can't really say that until you know more about the actual person. And unfortunately, you don't know anything about the person until you identify them." (Eric O'Neill, 05:31)
• Reported Shouts: Some witnesses claim the shooter yelled "Allah Akbar." O'Neill says, "That would be incredibly significant… We've seen a spate of shootings and killings surrounding antisemitism… It has been used as somewhat of a rallying cry for extremists." (06:26)

3. Modern Terror Threats and Preventing Attacks

(Eric O'Neill, 10:44–11:45; 13:19–14:53)

• Recent Plots: The hosts recall the New Orleans New Year’s attack, and a major plot foiled in LA, with O’Neill emphasizing law enforcement’s reliance on human tips and digital surveillance: "Usually you don't tell anybody that it happened … what happens is somebody has a moment of conscience and rats them out." (11:45)
• Global Trends: O’Neill observes an uptick in attacks reminiscent of 2001, attributing it to how “a very big world [has been] made very small” by online radicalization and extremist networking.

4. Online Radicalization and the Dark Web

(14:53–15:55)

• Methods of Communication: Extremists use not only the dark web but also private apps and servers: "You can use, for example, a private discord server and criminals do, cells like Antifa, right, who need to coordinate before they launch a protest. They use these sort of communication models that allow you to delete the server when you're done and then law enforcement can't see it." (Eric O'Neill, 15:02)

5. The Growing Danger of Cyberattacks

(17:47–20:42)

• New Threats: O'Neill warns, "It isn't a kinetic attack as much as a large scale cyber attack and critical infrastructure… Just as vulnerable to that from a foreign threat actor like China and Russia." (Eric O'Neill, 17:47)
• Historical Precedents: Citing Russia’s use of cyberattacks in Ukraine to shut down the power grid pre-invasion: "Operators literally watched as toggles, the mouse moved by itself and toggled power stations from on to off… Under cover of night, the Russians rolled in and never had to fire a shot and grabbed Crimea." (19:05)

6. National Vulnerability and Readiness

(Eric O’Neill, 23:16–24:42)

• US Grid Resilience: Compared to Ukraine, the US’s chaotic grid is both a hindrance and partial safeguard. However, O’Neill notes that targeting nine substations could cripple the system.
• Deterrence Model: Advocates creating "the same system of deterrence we had for the nuclear conflict in a cyber conflict. So be able to say that if you attack us ... that is an act of war and we will retaliate." (23:16)

7. State-Sponsored Threats

(Eric O'Neill, 24:42–25:15)

• On who’s most dangerous: "In terms of sophistication capability, it's definitely China…as far as the ability to launch a large scale cyber attack in terms of just complete erratic irrationality, I think Iran." (24:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Extremist Communication:
  "We're online too much. We don't touch grass enough. That leads to the ability to. To create these extremists."
  — Eric O’Neill, 13:56

• On Preventing Terror Attacks:
  "The majority of these terrorist events are foiled because someone has a conscience...anonymously provide a tip and then, and then get out. And that is one of the number one ways that these things fall apart."
  — Eric O'Neill, 16:46

• On Grid Attack Consequences:
  "If you don't have lights and power or water and you can't remove wastewater, people get sick, people die, you got nothing."
  — Eric O'Neill, 17:47

• On Profiling Evil Podcast:
  "We look at criminal cases a little different perspective. I try not to get into the sensationalism and talk more about the criminal behavior, the motivation for victim selection."
  — Mike King, 29:22

Segment 2: True Crime, Motives, and Cold Cases (with Mike King)

(29:02–56:11)

1. Criminal Profiling and the Pursuit of "Evil"

(Mike King, 30:04–32:01)

• Motivations: Most criminals seek the same needs (power, control, acceptance) as anyone else—but pursue them "illegitimately."
• Serial Killer Mindset: "It's more about legacy, and it's more about being the best serial killer out there or the best mass murderer out there." (Mike King, 32:01)

2. Intersection of Identity, Mental Health, and Crime

(32:52–34:39)

• Manifestos and Regret: Discussing a local shooting where the perpetrator wrote a remorseful, advisory manifesto before the crime, underscoring the complexity of motivation and mental health.

3. Investigating Victim Selection over Perpetrator Identity

(Mike King, 34:39–35:50)

"The first question is the who done it? And in reality, what we ought to be asking is, who's the victim? And why did they end up being a victim?" (Mike King, 34:39)

4. Can We Prevent Such Crimes?

(36:07–37:03)

• Acknowledgment that while "red flags" are often present, people frequently ignore them—whether due to denial, confusion, or simple optimism.

5. Cold Cases & Lingering Mysteries

(Jay, Mike King, et al., 38:19–46:16)

• Stories That Haunt: Mike King is most haunted by the Summer Wells disappearance, illustrating the delicate balance between following facts and speculation (38:56–40:59).
• Minnesota Unsolved Cases: Discussion of cases like Jacob Wetterling and Jodi Huisentruit, with input from Eric O'Neill on recent developments.
• Personal Impact: Jay shares the mysterious disappearance of his great-grandfather in 1968 and his urge to investigate with Mike’s encouragement: "What's the worst that happens? You end up right where you are now. And the best might be that you actually go back and you solve an old mystery." (Mike King, 46:16)

6. Profiling Notorious Criminals: Utah’s Most Infamous Cases

(48:00–53:15)

• On the Lafferty Brothers: Mike King shares about his correspondence with Dan Lafferty, infamous for the religion-motivated murders chronicled in “Under the Banner of Heaven”—including receiving prison art referencing Lafferty’s “revelations.”
• The Mark Hofmann Bombings: Host and guest recount covering Salt Lake’s infamous forger and bomber and their personal professional intersections.
• Hi-Fi Murders: King recounts filming a visit with the detective who led the case into the infamous torture/murder case in Ogden, Utah (55:14).

7. New Podcast and Book Announcements

(Mike King, 53:15–55:05)

• Mike teases an upcoming docuseries and podcast, “Gardens of Evil: Inside the Zion Society Cult” (launching February 2026), and details other projects relating to historic Utah cults and abuses.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Brown University Shooter Investigation: 02:13–10:44
• Recent Foiled Terror Plots & Extremist Radicalization: 10:44–16:28
• Cyberattack Risks—The New Terror Frontier: 17:47–24:42
• State Cyber Threat Levels (China, Iran, Russia): 24:42–25:19
• Profiling Evil and True Crime Analysis (segment 2): 29:22–56:11
• Profiling Summer Wells, Wetterling, Huisentruit Cases: 38:56–43:35
• Discussion of the Lafferty Brothers/Hofmann/Ogden Crimes in Utah: 48:00–55:14
• Upcoming “Gardens of Evil” Podcast: 54:00–55:05

Original Tone and Notable Interactions

• Conversational, direct, sometimes irreverent and world-weary; lots of gallows humor.
• Multiple overlapping anecdotes and freewheeling exchanges, with serious moments often diffused by wry asides ("I'm hoarding toilet paper myself," Kenny, 22:42).
• The hosts frequently pivot from deep analysis to personal reminiscence, blurring the line between professional investigation and the trials of local living.

Final Words & Resource Links

Both Eric O’Neill and Mike King wrap up by plugging their latest works:

• Eric O’Neill’s book: "Spies, Lies and Cybercrime" – a compelling, story-driven look inside modern cyber threats.
• Mike King’s show/podcast: "Profiling Evil" (on Gamut and YouTube), and the upcoming “Gardens of Evil: Inside the Zion Society Cult”.

This episode offers a broad, nuanced look at both immediate and systemic criminal threats, from lone shooters to hostile nation-states, always returning to the messy, human factors that underlie evil—and our attempts to stop it.