CRABBY: Kevin Urban’s Paid Leave Nightmare + Weiner Wednesday & Rep. Dave Baker

Summary

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Garage Logic: "CRABBY: Kevin Urban’s Paid Leave Nightmare + Wiener Wednesday & Rep. Dave Baker"

Date: July 29, 2026
Host: Gamut Podcast Network
Guests: Kevin Urban, Rep. Dave Baker

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Episode Overview

This episode of Garage Logic (via the Krabby Coffee Shop segment) weaves together two major threads:

• The escalating sexual harassment scandal in St. Paul involving "good wienering" texts and political intrigue at City Hall.
• A deep, personal look at the failures and real-world heartbreak surrounding Minnesota’s Paid Family Leave program, particularly through the story of Kevin Urban, a resident who’s been failed by the bureaucracy while recovering from a knee injury, followed by legislative insight from Representative Dave Baker.

Mixing local news, investigative banter, and small-town humor, the hosts provide both comic relief and genuine advocacy for Minnesotans caught in dysfunctional systems.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Wiener Wednesday and the St. Paul Scandal

(02:13–21:19)

Background and Quote:

• The hosts dive into the viral story involving St. Paul Police Chief Axel Henry, who filed a sexual harassment complaint against the new mayor over inappropriate messages—including the now-notorious "good wienering" meme.
• Quote:
  “When she wraps you up in her blanket after you give her a good weinering”—accompanied by two laughing emojis.
  — Gabe, quoting from the Alpha News coverage (05:08)

Key Points:

• The phrase and incident are dissected with equal parts humor and disbelief.
• The hosts debate whether there’s more behind Chief Henry’s actions:
  • Political Motivation Theory: Henry (a Carter appointee) might be caught in power plays between the ex-mayor and the current mayor ("her"), implying orchestrated leaks to national outlets.
  • Protecting Officers Theory: Chief Henry is stepping up to protect other officers who may have also been subjected to inappropriate behavior.
• Media dynamics: The story breaking in both Star Tribune and NY Times is viewed as possibly orchestrated for maximum impact.
• The potential fallout: If more allegations surface, there could be calls for the mayor’s resignation, possibly paving the way for Carter’s political return.

Notable Quote:

“Axel’s taking this upon himself, and this is, in the words of one source, very well could be the tip of the iceberg.”
— Jay Coles (12:44)

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2. Minnesota Paid Family Leave Program – A Nightmare in Practice

(22:13–36:00, 37:18–59:48)

Kevin Urban’s Story:

• Guest: Kevin Urban describes his struggles navigating the Paid Family Leave bureaucracy after a knee injury made him unable to work.
• Timeline:
  • Multiple redundant requests for documentation.
  • Long delays for each approval phase; frequent reapplication required any time doctor dates changed.
  • In three months, received only a fraction of expected payments: less than $1,000 (after taxes/insurance), nothing for June and July.
  • Faced mounting bills, nearly lost home and car, forced to use food shelf/freezer donations, and denied aid by other agencies due to outdated income records.
  • After his leave period ended on July 28, had to wait (uncertainly) for any back pay.

Memorable Quotes:

• “I've only had one [creditor] that has pushed my due date back to September... but that's going to run out September. Yeah, come September, that bill is due again.” — Kevin Urban (28:52)
• “It's a daily thing that I'm going through.” — Kevin Urban, on constant creditor calls (32:47)
• “The system has failed you. Correct?”
  “Big time.” — Jay Coles & Kevin Urban (32:57–32:59)
• “We have more applications than we have people working on it. So we'll get to it when they can get to it.” — Kevin Urban relaying the state’s explanation (32:11)

Host Reactions:

• Genuine frustration and empathy from the host panel, who compare the rollout to previous state failures (MNLARS, MNSure).
• Suggestions for GoFundMe or church aid as desperate stopgaps while legislative help is sought.

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3. Legislative & Systemic Analysis with Rep. Dave Baker

(37:18–55:29)

Baker’s Perspective:

• Volume of Problems:
  Baker, on the House Workforce Committee, has heard “more than dozens” of similar troubled cases; program works for some, but many fall through cracks, especially small businesses and employees with time-sensitive needs.

• Systemic Issues:

  • Understaffed processing leads to catastrophic delays, even when eligibility is clear.
  • “It's a $688 million investment,” yet fixes are slow or nonexistent.
  • Employers—especially small/business—were not meaningfully involved in designing the system, leading to major problems when staff take leave (e.g., a small auto shop nearly collapsing when a unique-skilled worker leaves for weeks).

• Equity Problems:

  • Some claimants overpaid (due to calculation on “highest quarter” methodology), others receive nothing for months.
  • Opt-out rules for companies with better in-house leave policies are rigid or impractical.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you're on the program and you get approved, it's actually working pretty well. …But I know there's way too many, and that's a problem.” — Rep. Dave Baker (47:31)
• “It's all part of my concern about Minnesota … Their unemployment rates are going down, ours are going up. And this is very clear that employers are deciding. ‘I don’t know that I want to do this anymore here.’” — Rep. Dave Baker (51:21)
• “I don't see the state Minnesota officials doing that honestly, that they're not fixing those people because those are real stories that aren't getting paid.” — Rep. Dave Baker (47:53)
• “We got to fix this. …This is killing too many businesses and hurting too many people.” — Rep. Dave Baker (55:12)

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4. Listener Emails & Broader Systemic Woes

(56:01–59:48)

• Multiple listeners’ stories mirror Kevin’s: long approvals, no pay, over- or underpayment, and risk of being wrongfully audited.
• Hosts predict eventual tax hikes to fund shortfalls, and note the program, in trying to be universal, creates massive inconsistency and new risks.

Quote:

“We got cases where people are getting overpaid and some people who aren't getting paid at all. ...That can’t be sustainable.” — Jay Coles (58:22)

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Memorable/Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Note| |-----------|----------------|------------------------------| | 05:08 | Gabe (quoting Alpha News) | "When she wraps you up in her blanket after you give her a good weinering." | | 12:44 | Jay Coles | "This is... tip of the iceberg, that there's more to come." | | 24:30–27:46| Kevin Urban | Detailed his months-long struggle to get family leave payments, only receiving a fraction. | | 32:47 | Kevin Urban | “It's a daily thing that I'm going through.” (on constant creditor calls) | | 32:57–32:59| Jay Coles/Kevin | “The system has failed you. Correct?” “Big time.” | | 37:44 | Rep. Baker | “I've heard stories of long delays and appeals even when the employer isn't fighting anything.” | | 47:31 | Rep. Baker | “If you're on the program and you get approved, it's actually working pretty well. ...But I know there's way too many, and that's a problem.” | | 51:21 | Rep. Baker | “It's all part of my concern about Minnesota ... employers are deciding 'I don’t know that I want to do this anymore here.'” | | 55:12 | Rep. Baker | “We got to fix this. This is killing too many businesses and hurting too many people.” | | 58:22 | Jay Coles | “We got cases where people are getting overpaid and some people who aren't getting paid at all. ...That can't be sustainable.” |

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Thematic Summary

• Scandal and Politics: The St. Paul scandal is not just salacious but tangled in political undertones, highlighting how personal scandals can also serve as tools in local power struggles.
• Systemic Bureaucratic Failure: The Paid Family Leave program was designed with good intentions but is failing those most in need due to insufficient staffing, slow bureaucracy, and inflexible rules—often devastating people financially and emotionally.
• Legislative Disconnect: Lawmakers responsible for the program are depicted as resistant to hearing criticism or making needed tweaks, prioritizing political wins over real-world impacts on both businesses and individuals.

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Final Takeaway

Blending sharp local reporting with relatable frustration, this episode exposes the gap between idealistic policy and lived experience. Through Kevin Urban’s ordeal and Rep. Baker's insights, the show calls for urgent reforms—reminding listeners that behind every “program” are real people at risk of losing everything.

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Episode Navigation (Timestamps)

| Segment | Timestamps | |-----------------------------------------|-------------------| | Opening & Wiener Wednesday Banter | 02:13–10:00 | | Scandal Dissection & Conspiracy Theories| 10:00–21:19 | | Kevin Urban’s Story (Paid Leave Failure)| 22:13–36:00, 37:18–36:00 | | Rep. Dave Baker Legislative Analysis | 37:18–55:29 | | Listener Emails & Broader Implications | 56:01–59:48 |

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For listeners:
Expect both laughs and outrage as the hosts cut through media cycles and bureaucratic stonewalls to highlight stories that policy makers can’t ignore—especially when they put real Minnesotans in harm’s way.

Transcript

[Jay Coles]

As technology becomes more complex, cyber reality

[Kenny]

dominates the culture and AI becomes an endless, anxious discussion. Simple old human storytelling becomes all the more precious.

[Jay Coles]

And that's what you'll find on the Mishki Podcast. In the end, we're all just people.

[Kenny]

Folks with our brilliance and our absurdities

[Jay Coles]

and stories about people. Well, they never get old. The Mishke Podcast Wherever you get your

[Gabe]

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[Jay Coles]

And a good wienering to you too.

[Gabe]

I In order to celebrate this holiday, I ran to town at 11am I bought a pack of Fun Dogs at the gas station. I think it cost me about a buck fifty. Okay, I cut them up and I put them in my SpaghettiOs. And let me tell you something pal, it was horrible and I'm suffering the effects from it right now.

[Jay Coles]

I was gonna say that doesn't sound like a good wienering if you have

[Gabe]

no, if you don't know. If you're just tuning in and you're wondering what the hell is this meathead talking about? Just look Up Wiener Wednesday St. Paul and you'll Find the funniest story on

[Jay Coles]

the Internet and the phrase good wienering.

[Gabe]

Good wienering. Oh, my God. And you know, it is funny. And let's. Let's start with just backgrounding what the story.

[Jay Coles]

Yes, yes.

[Gabe]

So you go ahead.

[Jay Coles]

Story breaks, and I'm still trying to figure out if it broke from the Star Tribune or the New York Times. It looks like they're simultaneously breaking the story yesterday, right? Yeah, yesterday. So the story Simply is this. St. Paul Police Chief Axel Henry files a sexual harassment lawsuit against the newly elected. Really? Coley.

[Kevin Urban]

Her.

[Jay Coles]

In St. Paul. The newly elected mayor. And you know what? I had the. Does anybody have the quotes in front of him? I had them and I left them in my car.

[Gabe]

You keep talking. I'll find them. They're wonderful.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, yeah. Just read the good wienering. And the reason I'm laughing about that is because some people say, well, sexual harassment's not a funny. We shouldn't be making light of it. Well, Kenny, I had a busy morning talking to cops that I know. Great sources of mine over the years and a couple of former city council members who also. Great sources of mine. And Kenny, I don't know about you, but as soon as you find the weineering quote, I want you to read it.

[Gabe]

The example that I'm on Alpha News here, not the Star Tribune, Alpha News. Happy Wiener Wednesday. Comes from the mayor. Wish I was having a hot dog with you at 6 today. Evidently, that's a thing in the mayor's office. They have hot dogs at 6 on Wednesdays.

[Jay Coles]

Well, it's the sixth floor of the police department. Oh. Oh, okay.

[Gabe]

I didn't know that.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. I'm sorry. So I should help you. Okay. Sixth floor of the police department with. Or is it. Yeah. Cause the mayor's office is on the third floor of City Hall. Sixth floor is PD.

[Gabe]

Okay, so it has nothing to do

[Jay Coles]

with 6pm no, I'm pretty certain I could. I'm 99% sixth floor of the cops, where they have hot dogs on Wednesday.

[Gabe]

Okay.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. So she's talking about the sixth floor at St. Paul PD.

[Gabe]

Here's the payoff.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

When along there's a partially redacted photograph with an accompanying caption that reads, when she wraps you up in her blanket after you give her a good weinering, followed by two laughing emojis. Now, okay, Kenny, I told the guys on gl, I once had a meeting, staff meeting with all the women in my talk where we close the door and for 30 minutes we came up with funny names for Private parts. And I made a list and I wrote them all down. That's the kind of behavior. That's what working in radio is like.

[Jay Coles]

It's a sophisticated place.

[Gabe]

Let me.

[Jay Coles]

That is not high level research.

[Gabe]

I don't want that happening in the mayor's office.

[Jay Coles]

No.

[Gabe]

Or in the police precinct.

[Kenny]

Correct.

[Jay Coles]

Well, okay. In a real world, we all know that exists, though, between mayors and police. And look, here's the thing. You and I had the same reaction when I see good wienering and my colleague Rich Reeve downstairs at Channel 5. I watched his story last night. At 10, he's a year older than me, so he's been doing this for 40 plus years. I guarantee he's never had a story where he had to use the phrase good wienering.

[Gabe]

Back to you.

[Jay Coles]

Back to you. So with that said, my reaction was Axel Henry, Chief of St. Paul PD. 30 year veteran of the force. Practically gonna retire here in a couple years. Not even gonna seek reappointment is what I've been told. Because he'll be 59, he's all tatted up, he's got the sleeve tats, and he's going to the city attorney over good wienering.

[Gabe]

To me, that says there's something else going on.

[Jay Coles]

There you go. So in my travels with the cops that I talked with today and city council members that I talked, These happen to be former city council members, but still all very plugged in. You got. Everybody is kind of speculating, but there's all kinds of forces at play here. Right. All different things happening. And I've been told that Chief Henry's the kind of guy that if he thinks some of his officers have been done wrong and have been put in a situation where they feel like they can't complain about the mayor's conduct, that he would step up and make the complaint on behalf of his officers. Now, I'm told my sources tell me there's several other officers, that the mayor might have said some things that. Or maybe done more than just said some things that she shouldn't have said and.

[Gabe]

Cause I think the sexual nature change.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, allegedly, that's the word. Getting is that it was sexual in nature in terms of probably language. Right. I'm not saying I wouldn't have any idea if there's any actual sex involved, but there's other cops, right. So Chief Henry's stepping up. I'm told that he's gonna fight on their behalf. Because I couldn't figure out how could just a bad joke like that lead to sexual harassment complaint from the chief of police.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

To the city attorney.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

And so the city council. It was interesting talking to, you know, the politicians that I know and the cops that I know. Politicians right away went to. What's the political motivation here?

[Gabe]

Right, that's what I'm thinking. It's a political. Yeah, right, right.

[Jay Coles]

And here's, here's the thought process with that. Axel Henry, appointed by mayor Carter in 2022. He's a Carter guy, right?

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

His wife. Well, Chief Henry calls her his wife. They live together. Okay. Close to Mika. Yeah. So they live together. His wife and Mayor Carter's wife are besties. Real good friends, Real tight.

[Gabe]

Real tight.

[Kevin Urban]

Okay.

[Jay Coles]

A lot of animosity right now between Mayor Carter and Mayor her. Carter doesn't like her at all.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

So now you got this dynamic. Henry is an appointee of Carter. His wife or girlfriend is very close with Mayor Carter's wife.

[Gabe]

Stop a second.

[Jay Coles]

Yep.

[Gabe]

Carter lost to her.

[Jay Coles]

Yes.

[Gabe]

Let's just make that clear.

[Jay Coles]

So that's why he doesn't like Mayor her.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

Mayor her ousted him. All right. Sorry. And what's Mayor Carter doing right now? Nothing. Right. He's waiting for the next opportunity.

[Gabe]

The same thing he did when he was running St. Paul. Absolutely nothing. That's a Kenny editorial.

[Jay Coles]

He's waiting for the next opportunity, as they say in politics. Especially in politics. Right, right. So. So, and then add into that mix the former deputy mayor, the number two in charge, Jamie Tincher. So that's Carter's right hand person. And the former city attorney, Lindsey Olson, also very tight with Axel and his wife. And Mayor Carter and his wife. So you've got this axis of power from the Carter administration. You got Mayor Carter, his wife, Chief Henry, his girlfriend, wife and the city attorney and the deputy mayor, all whom do not like May or her. Right. So some of the politicians are like, we're trying to figure out if this is maybe politically motivated. Cause now it's in the New York Times. And they were like, why would the New York Times have it at the same time as the Star Tribune? And I said, I can tell you as a reporter that's orchestrated, without a doubt. This has all been orchestrated. And they picked their media, whichever. They didn't want to do the pioneer press. So they go to the Star Tribune.

[Gabe]

Very curious, isn't it?

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, very curious. And then they want to get to national attention, get. Give it to that New York Times reporter who sort of embedded himself here ever since George Floyd. I can't think of his name.

[Gabe]

We could do 30 minutes on why not the St. Paul paper?

[Jay Coles]

Correct? Yes.

[Gabe]

I mean, that's a big question.

[Jay Coles]

A big question.

[Gabe]

But let's keep going.

[Jay Coles]

So they go, star Tribune, New York Times, simultaneous now. And I said to these city council members, I said, well, my thought as a reporter is they want national embarrassment, national pressure, as well as the local pressure. Don't go to the local paper.

[Gabe]

Go to the Star Tribunes, the Minnesota Star Tribun.

[Jay Coles]

Sorry. Yes, The Minnesota stuff.

[Gabe]

All the way around the state.

[Jay Coles]

All the way around the state, exactly.

[Gabe]

And just to be clear, for people that don't know, it's really hard to get the St. Paul paper a physical copy. I lived in south Minneapolis.

[Jay Coles]

Does it even exist anymore?

[Gabe]

Delivered to my door.

[Jay Coles]

Exactly.

[Gabe]

It was too far away.

[Jay Coles]

Yep.

[Kevin Urban]

So.

[Jay Coles]

So now I'm looking at it as a. As a reporter going, yeah, this has been orchestrated. There's more to come for sure. This is just the first tick, tick to come. Right. And. And the politicians say, so they're of the mindset, they believe there's something politically motivated here, maybe enough pressure to eventually put pressure on her to maybe even resign, maybe opening the door for Mayor Carter to come back in. You know what I'm saying? If there was another election held or whatever, however that process would work. So that's one theory out there from politicians and elected officials that I know. And then the cops. I talked to the cops, and the cops are like, you know, I don't think so. Because Axel's done. He's not gonna. When his term is up in 2028, he's gonna be 59 with 30 years on the force. He's done. He's not gonna do another six years. So he's not worried about getting reappointed, but it might be something to do with the budget. Maybe he's leveraging on some budget things. And then another cop said to me, yeah, but there are other cops connected to this, that these other employees that Axel Henry's talking about speaking on behalf of are actually law enforcement. They're actually St. Paul police officers. So I was able to at least confirm that through my sources that it's the other city employees he's talking about are cops. Right?

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

And that Axel's taking this upon himself, and that this is, in the words of one source, very well could be the tip of the iceberg, that there's more to come. This is the first volley. And that maybe on the back end comes the push for resignation, that there could be more coming out where maybe she did seek sexual favors, maybe she did put sexual pressure on a cop. Maybe she had a relationship with a cop. There's all these things that are in play when you talk to law enforcement. They're less of the mindset that it's politically motivated and more along the lines of this is Chief Henry making the first move on the mayor to help protect his guys and take the lead on it for them? And they said, that's kind of the guy Axel Henry is. That's what he would do. So. And one source said to me, so we just got to wait and see what the next one is and how bad this gets.

[Gabe]

So I'm looking at the Star Tribune online version right now. This piece was written this morning at 10:53. Jeff Day, Liz Sawyer and Josie Albertson Grove. Do you suppose they're possibly sitting on more? Are they waiting for more? How does this process work?

[Jay Coles]

It could be. My guess would be they wouldn't be. If they had stuff, they wouldn't be sitting on it because it's such a fast moving story.

[Gabe]

They'd go.

[Jay Coles]

They'd probably go. Unless they got us dot some I's and cross some T's.

[Gabe]

Another question for you.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

Does she have protection staff and are they St. Paul police officers?

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. Yep. Okay. And a driver. Gotta remember she has a driver.

[Gabe]

Is that also a police officer?

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, that's a cop. And you know, sometimes they rotate in and out. She would have interface with the cops. And the fact that she's referencing the sixth floor and having hot dogs on the sixth floor at St. Paul Police Headquarters tells you she's been over there on the sixth floor having hot dogs on Wednesdays.

[Gabe]

I've known throughout my career Both Minneapolis and St. Paul, cops and troopers. I know a few deputies up here now and the discussion gets. It's we're boys, you know, it's fart jokes and beyond.

[Jay Coles]

It's sophomore.

[Gabe]

So if that in fact is true about her applying pressure, those officers, and this is all pure speculation coming from me.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

All of us must have felt like their jobs were.

[Jay Coles]

Could be in jeopardy. Yeah, Jobs in jeopardy. Or embarrassing if it gets out. You know, it's a whole host of things, but most likely feeling the pressure of, oh, my God, this is the mayor. I can't. If I'm an officer, I can't say anything against the mayor. Therefore, the chief's gonna step in and more will be coming out of this unless she resigns.

[Gabe]

Have you heard any other theories? We've got two working so far.

[Jay Coles]

The two working theories are pretty much. Those are the Two, that Henry's taking the lead on this for his other officers. More is gonna come out of it. It's just the tip of the iceberg and it's not gonna look good for her. And the politicians think, well, maybe there's some political motivation here because he's a Carter guy and there's no love lost and his wife is a Carter guy. So those are the two working theories. There may be something that's in the middle with both of them.

[Gabe]

Kenny, what do you make of his reaction to the press saying, I don't have time to deal with this now, I've got a city to run, blah blah, blah.

[Jay Coles]

That's just a BS line.

[Gabe]

Totally. Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

You can't file a case, you can't

[Gabe]

file a. I respect you, but that line is total.

[Jay Coles]

It's bullshit. And it's coming from his attorney, Chris Mattle, who's a good attorney. Okay, Mattle's a good attorney.

[Gabe]

That makes more sense.

[Jay Coles]

Mattle's just told him, stay out of this, I'm gonna be the mouthpiece. And just. Did you love the way the attorney said it? He just solved four homicides in three days and the chief has got to keep the city. He can't comment on this. Well, he might be complaining with the city attorney.

[Gabe]

Do you know him? I've never met him. Maybe I met him at the fair.

[Jay Coles]

Chief Henry.

[Gabe]

Yeah. I have great respect for this.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. Like the guy, he's straightforward, no nonsense. He's not like real media friendly like some of the previous chiefs that I got to know.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

But straight up guy, you know, tough, hard nosed cop, but a good cop and well respected by the rank and file by the officers. Right. So I don't think he, I am of the mindset. I don't think he did this just solely out of politics. Maybe there's some politics in it. I think it's I'm going to get you before you're going to get me kind of thing. That's what I think it is. And that there's more. Because seriously Kenny, he's the chief of police of a major city. And the phrase a good wienering is going to make you go to the city. Wouldn't you march in as the chief and say to the mayor, look, I know you're my boss, but you can't. Listen, you know, this is, you know, if this gets out it's gonna be weird. You gotta stop with this. You can't. Right.

[Gabe]

Kenny would walk in there and say either make it happen or shut up.

[Jay Coles]

Shut up. Yeah. So here's my thing. So you got a chief who's all tatted up, he's got sleeves, been on the street, well respected. According to his own attorney, just solved three homicides in four days. And he can't handle this directly with the mayor. He's got to go file a city attorney. So there is more. I think it's a combo platter of a little bit of politics and some of the Carter people and the Carter appointees who are all tight, throwing a little bit of a dagger at her because she came out of nowhere to displace him.

[Gabe]

When was he appointed?

[Jay Coles]

So Axel was appointed in 2020. So Carter 21, 2022. So he's up in 2028. I think hers term ends in 2028, but. Because I originally thought, well, maybe he's worried about reappointment. But then the cops I talked to all said, no, no, no, he's not. He ain't gonna go past. He's gonna do the six years. He'll be like 59, 60, right in there with 30 years, he's out. So it can't be that. It's more of the cops think there's more to this and that she might have done something more with these other street cops and Axel stepping in to fire the first lob and that there could be more. And as it trickles out Kenny and gets worse, then they expect on the backside, maybe a push for resignation if it's bad enough. So let's just say it elevates Kenny to the point of whether maybe photos have been sent. I don't know. This again, this is. Nobody knows. I'm not saying that's the case.

[Gabe]

I hate to make this story about me, but my God, this is what makes the job fun, right?

[Jay Coles]

Oh, no, listen, man, as a reporter.

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

Oh, and the reporter, Liz Sawyer, who's a good reporter, as she broke this.

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

I want to. I want to just not just push her down and say, get out of here.

[Gabe]

This is my story.

[Jay Coles]

This is my story now. Damn it, Liz, you did a good job. But. But. But again, immediately I started talking to people this morning after you and I talked. And I could feel myself getting back into that mode of, oh, I gotta learn more, I gotta know more.

[Gabe]

This is the J. Coles. That I used to smoke cigarettes without getting all the. Behind the building, getting all fired up. Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

All fired up over. You know, most people wouldn't give a damn.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

But I'm all fired up. And I'm hearing people would walk by

[Gabe]

us and go, what's with these weirdos? Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. Does Jay really like his job that much? I did on certain days. And like today, what a great day for a podcast.

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

We do a great day for a podcast.

[Gabe]

Yeah. We have a whole different show planned.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Gabe]

And we're gonna do it.

[Jay Coles]

Family leave. You've been wanting to do family leave.

[Gabe]

Let's do that. Let's get to that. Next. We've got a guest. Let's get them lined up. I want to talk about, well, when motorcycle for those of you folks that don't know when motorcycle aficionados hear the name Aprilia come up in nearby conversation, that you automatically stop what you're doing and you try to listen in or even insert themselves into the dialogue. Of course, I'm just referring to myself. That's because Aprilia represents fine tuned Italian motorcycle craftsmanship. Seriously, if you've ever wanted to swing a leg over one or maybe test drive one or even own one, EcoFun Motorsports in Forest Lake, Columbus can hook you up with the Aprilia Motorcycle Demo Day at EcoFun Motorsports from 10am to 4pm next Tuesday. It's August 4th. The Aprilia demo team truck, it's going to be there and you are going to have a chance to examine all the models and take them for a test ride. You're going to find all the info and sign up details@ecofundmotor motorsports.com but wait, there's more. You're gonna love this. All demo riders are going to receive a gift certificate for 500 bucks off a new Aprilia motorcycle. But wait, there's even more. EcoFun providing barbecue and brats for the festivities courtesy of Grundhofers. So you're going to have the intoxicating odor of finely prepared brats and the sweet, sweet sounds of Aprilia motorcycles filling those ear holes. What a fun day. It's Aprilia Demo Day at EcoFund Motorsports in Columbus Forest Lake next Tuesday, August 4th. They're a block west of 35 on Highway 97. Be sure to RSVP your spot right now at EcoFunMotorsports.com all right, we're back.

[Jay Coles]

I told you it was a great day for a podcast. First we got mayor her, now we've got Minnesota paid family leave program. Kenny and I have wanted to talk about this for a while. It's a $600 million taxpayer investment which goes along with employers as well. And joining us right now is Kevin Urban. Kevin lives down near Fairmont. I got that right, right Kevin, you're near Fairmont?

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah, we're living.

[Jay Coles]

Welcome, welcome, Minnesota. So, welcome to news from the Krabby Coffee Shop. Why don't you tell everybody what's happened to you in the last three months? And I'll just preface it this way. You need to have knee surgery, but you can't work until you have the knee. So you were accepted into the Minnesota Paid Family Leave Program. Right. In May. Right. And you had 12 weeks, essentially three months. You had May, June and July. What's happened since you were, I guess, approved for the program? What happened to you?

[Kevin Urban]

Well, once I got approved, I went through my HR department to get the application applied. First of all, I ran into a statement from the state stating I needed more information. I had already sent in docu documentation from the doctors describing my initial injury, which was to my knee, which prevented me from working. Once we got that sent in, we went back to in review status. Then we got another notice for they needed more information, which ended up being a duplicate of what we had just sent in. So I went back into review status again. We did this three times for my initial application, and I finally got approved for it. And by the time I got approved for it, about a month and a week had gone by before I got approved. Then I had to wait for the paycheck for that month. The month of May.

[Jay Coles]

For the month of May.

[Kevin Urban]

So now you're approved to say my injuries. My injury is still continuing.

[Jay Coles]

Right. In essence, Kevin, what you're telling me is a hassle to get approved. You finally get approved. You're approved for May, June and July. You finally get paid in May, but you don't get all of your money in. What happened in May? From paid family leave.

[Kevin Urban]

Initially, I got approved strictly for May because of the doctor paperwork that was sent in. The doctor's dates had me only covered through 27 May. So what ended up happening is I got approved for May, and then I had to go in and reapply for June and July and have the doctors once again reissue the statement, a doctor statement stating I'm still under, you know, disability status. So I had to go through that, got that paperwork filled out, sent that in, and my application was accepted as far as that point, and it was in review.

[Jay Coles]

Okay.

[Kevin Urban]

And the doctors originally had me out through August 8th.

[Jay Coles]

Right.

[Kevin Urban]

But that has changed since my knee surgery has occurred during this time period.

[Jay Coles]

Right.

[Kevin Urban]

My knee surgery is on the third, which is Monday coming up. So they. They adjusted the dates and they. And we sent that in. So here's more paperwork going in. Then the next thing I know, I'm waiting in the review status, and I get this notice from the state of Minnesota stating they need more information. So I went back in and found out it was a date change. My 12 weeks obviously wasn't extended out that far, so I had to readjust my date as far as when the 12 weeks would be up. And originally they gave me July 29th, which is today. So then I went back in and they got it in there, and they said, okay, you're in review. So then I get another notice from them a little bit later. I'm getting more insight.

[Jay Coles]

I'm getting exhausted just listening to this.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah. And you don't. From this end is ridiculous. So I had to go in and I changed the date again. One day. 28th, July 28th. So then I went, got it sent in. It said, your application or your change has been received. I was in review status again. Then I got another notice that for some reason, the July 28th date that I had entered somehow got lost, and I had to reenter it through the July 28th date.

[Jay Coles]

Okay, so let's cut to the chase then. So I get it. You've got stacks of paperwork that are going back and forth. All right.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

So you eventually get approved for May, June, and July, Correct?

[Kevin Urban]

Well, hopefully the. Yeah, hopefully I'm supposed to be.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, yeah, you're approved for May, June, and July. What happened in May? How much money did you get in May?

[Kenny]

Two weeks worth.

[Jay Coles]

Two weeks worth.

[Kevin Urban]

About three weeks worth of pay in May. I didn't get the full month.

[Jay Coles]

So what'd you get? How much money in May?

[Kevin Urban]

I want to. I want to say about 1800. It was. Well, it was about 1800, but after taxes and then having my insurance pulled out of it through my employer and other arrear fees that were in there from my employer, I barely got anything out of it to. To use towards billing, paying bills and stuff.

[Gabe]

Wow.

[Jay Coles]

So less than.

[Kevin Urban]

Less than $200?

[Jay Coles]

I would say less than a thousand bucks.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

All right, so meanwhile, you're still in pain.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, still in pain. Waiting for his knee surgery. And you cannot work. Right. You can't work while you're waiting.

[Kevin Urban]

I cannot work.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Kevin Urban]

My. My work status is I don't meet the criteria of my. Of my employer to work, so.

[Jay Coles]

So you get a few hundred dollars in May. How much money did you get in. How much money did you get in June?

[Kevin Urban]

Nothing.

[Jay Coles]

Nothing. How much money did you get in July?

[Kevin Urban]

Still waiting. How much money did you get nothing in July. I'm still waiting.

[Jay Coles]

Approved for three months of pay under the Paid Minnesota Family Leave Act. You've only gotten a few hundred dollars in May, nothing in June, and nothing in July. And I'm guessing your bill collectors aren't understanding of that.

[Kevin Urban]

No, I've only had one. That has pushed my due date back to September. They put me to the end of the loan, you know.

[Jay Coles]

Okay. So they just tacked it on the. On the back end.

[Kevin Urban]

They just tacked it on the end. But.

[Jay Coles]

But that's going to run out September. Yeah.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah. Come September, that bill is then due again.

[Jay Coles]

So you've had. You've essentially had no pay. Really? Essentially. For three months?

[Kevin Urban]

No. No.

[Jay Coles]

Wow. How are you making ends meet?

[Kevin Urban]

Trust me, it's. It's been very difficult.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

You have no other choice but to sell stuff. Sell stuff? Family possessions. Unbelievable.

[Kevin Urban]

We've gone through. We've gone through numerous agencies trying to get some assistance. We've been turned down by every single one of them. One thing, you make too much money. Blah, blah, blah. From when I was working. That's what they're basing it on. Or you just don't qualify for our program. One thing or another.

[Jay Coles]

So now, if this ended. If this ended. Kevin, Sorry to interrupt you. You said July 28th, so. That was yesterday.

[Kevin Urban]

That was yesterday.

[Jay Coles]

Okay, so do you have to start this? Hey, somebody else is in there.

[Kevin Urban]

My dog's not happy either.

[Jay Coles]

No, I think that dog just said this is a bunch of bullshit is what that dog said. So help me out then, Kevin. If it ended yesterday, do you have to reapply to get back into the system and be approved again? Or are you out of luck?

[Kevin Urban]

No, as far as family leave goes, my 12 weeks is done. So what I'm.

[Jay Coles]

So you just gotta wait for back. You gotta wait for back pay. Back pay or what?

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah. What's gonna happen is we have an additional. Additional program that. It's like a supplemental, but.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Kevin Urban]

We're not 100% sure that they're gonna kick in to cover the. You know, from here on. But you can't until I get back to work. It's. It's Sedgwick, is there. Is that program.

[Jay Coles]

So. But you. You. You gotta wait then for this back pay to come in, which might not be until who knows when. And in the meantime, you. I'm assuming you've got a mortgage payment.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah, I don't know when I'm going to get this.

[Jay Coles]

And you've got a mortgage and a car and Everything else, right?

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah, you know, electricity, you know, usual stuff. Electricity, city, water, all that stuff. Plus trying to figure out how we're going to get groceries. I'm just thankful my daughter was able to give us part of a. Of a cow that we've got in our freezer. So we've got some meat and stuff, but as far as, like, milk and other supplies.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Kevin Urban]

Right now we've got nothing.

[Jay Coles]

Damn.

[Kevin Urban]

We've got a food shelf of. God forbid I have to use a food shelf, but it's there. Thank God. But.

[Jay Coles]

Well, you shouldn't have to worry about that because we're all paying into this program. Yeah, I mean, I see it on my check. Come on. It's just. It's a $600 million program, you know, reminds me of Min. Lars and Mnsure when those rollouts happen. All kinds of.

[Gabe]

I tried Mnsure and I gave up. After three months, I just gave up and went. Insurance.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

Kevin, what.

[Jay Coles]

What.

[Gabe]

What's your theory as to the incompetence here? What do you suppose is causing this?

[Kevin Urban]

Well, I can only go on what they told me when I called them directly. Their statement, which they've told me over and over and over. And it's been different. People that have taught that I've talked to is we have more applications than we have people working on it. So we'll get to it when they can get to it.

[Gabe]

Meanwhile, they're destroying your life. They're absolutely destroying your life.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah. The stress is pretty high when you're getting calls every day from numerous bill collectors wanting to know when they're gonna get their money.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

Do you feel like this is a

[Kevin Urban]

daily thing that I'm going through?

[Jay Coles]

So this is probably a dumb question, but I don't think it is. I just wanted to hear you say it. The system has failed you. Correct?

[Kevin Urban]

Big time.

[Jay Coles]

Does your employer have any type of paid leave, do you know?

[Kevin Urban]

Well, we've already pretty much gone through that.

[Jay Coles]

So you did what you could do with your company, where you work.

[Kevin Urban]

Yeah. The company will now kick in what they can.

[Jay Coles]

But you were relying on this because the company went as far as it could be, right?

[Kevin Urban]

Yep.

[Jay Coles]

Man. Wow. Well, stay in touch. We're gonna talk to State Representative Dave Baker, who's on the Workforce committee at the Capitol. Labor and Workforce Committee. He's got some thoughts on this and what they need to do to fix it. And I'll stay in touch with you, Kevin, and I'll talk to Representative Baker and see what you should do next. And maybe this is all you can do is just keep asking them when you're gonna get your money. I don't know, but let's stay in touch and let's see if Kenny and Al try to help you. Kenny and I will try to help you. Okay. I'll call Deed. I'll see if Representative Baker can help and see what we can do. All right.

[Kevin Urban]

Thank you, man.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. Well, thanks for taking the time. Thanks for taking the time.

[Gabe]

Hang in there.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah. And hang in there, and we'll stay in touch. All right.

[Gabe]

Surround yourself with families, Jay.

[Jay Coles]

You bet, Kevin. We'll be in touch. We're going to talk to Representative Baker here in a second.

[Gabe]

All right?

[Kevin Urban]

Okay, thank you.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, take care. What a story, Al J.

[Gabe]

That's such a heartbreaker. Wow.

[Jay Coles]

All over a knee. He's got to have his knee fixed and he's going to lose. He told me when I talked to him. We talked at length during the pre interview that come September, Kenny, if this isn't rectified by September, he's worried about losing his car. He's worried about his house. It's serious. For people like Kevin, it's really serious.

[Gabe]

I hate to even bring it up, but Is there a GoFundMe option?

[Kenny]

No.

[Gabe]

What can we do?

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, there would be. There would be. I don't. I've never set up a GoFundMe, but

[Gabe]

I don't know anything about them. I know I've sent money to them.

[Jay Coles]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, you know what? I will research that with the people in the newsroom because we have a way of connecting with the GoFundMe people because we always. Whenever we put a GoFundMe on the air, we want to make sure it's real.

[Kenny]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

And there's a process, but Kevin and his wife would be good candidates because through no fault of their own, they're sitting there.

[Gabe]

Church.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, they. And there's a church. Yeah, that's a great idea.

[Gabe]

I hope a church is listening and can step in and help out.

[Jay Coles]

Great idea.

[Gabe]

You know, give them God. They need five to ten grand right now, today, if they could get that.

[Jay Coles]

He said it's September. He said by mid September, I'm looking like I could lose my car. On and on. So horrible stuff, but yeah.

[Gabe]

All right, let's. Let's take a quick break here and keep going here. I want to tell you a little bit of a story. For the want of a fuse, a boat went adrift. A buddy actually told me this story about an incident last weekend on a lake here in Minnesota. He's adrift out in the middle of the lake. He made a call to a friend, got a tow to a nearby marina and the problem was solved by a $3 fuse in a matter of minutes. Now, if this had happened to another guy I know and work with, he would have traded that boat in for a brand new boat without even wondering why it quit. It quit and it's out of here. I'm done with it. You know, the guy that, the guy that fixed it, he'd also do the same thing, but he'd fix it first and then trade it in. And I know he'd run it over to Warner stock in New Richmond, Wisconsin. They're on the web. Warnerstock.com check it out. They still have a huge selection of Premier and Bentley pontoons on sale. It's a massive selection, both pontoons and fishing boats and all the accessories. If you need or want a new boat, this is the time. Warner stock carries Alumacraft boats with your choice of power plants. Suzuki, Yamaha, Mercury, all of them quality cylinders. And Warner's loves trades. They even have even if they have a blown fuse, they can handle that. They have a big service department. But it also means they have a full selection of used fishing boats and pontoons in stock right now. They do it all over in New Richmond. Sales, service, storage, pontoons, boats, docks, lift. Warner stock in New Richmond, the place for all of your boating needs. Check out the inventory Warner stock dot com.

[Jay Coles]

So you just heard that tough story from Kevin Urban down in near Fairmont, Minnesota where he's up against it and creditors are lining up and he hasn't even had the surgery he needs. Joining us now, state representative Dave Baker, who's very well versed in what's going on with this program. And Dave, let's start there. That was a heartbreaking story we just heard from Kevin. But you're telling Kenny and I, you've heard how many dozens of stories similar to his?

[Kenny]

Oh, it's more than dozens. I've heard stories of long delays and appeals even when the employer isn't fighting anything. It's a matter of the things are getting wound up at the state level because people aren't getting the same answers for the same situations because everything is different. There's nothing that is the same about one employer, one industry. And that's what makes this program so problematic. So I have helped dozens of people get their relief or their finally, when I go to the top director of this program, they will finally do something because I think the chairman of the of the committee that oversees this. They don't want to. They don't want to disappoint me and others, but they'll make things happen then. So I'm hoping that I can help this gentleman. I didn't. You know, I'm looking forward to hearing his story, but I've heard so many sad ones where they're off work, they don't have any income coming in. And this is. This is not a program that's working flawlessly like the state wants you to believe it is.

[Jay Coles]

And it's $600 million as the investment, correct? That's the initial investment.

[Kenny]

$688 million to be exact.

[Jay Coles]

688.

[Kenny]

So that was what was sent through in the. In the DSA or the DFL trifecta here a couple years ago. It's big money.

[Kevin Urban]

So

[Jay Coles]

every time we go through a big change in a program, I think of Mnlars and Mnsure. We have big government rollouts like this. There seems to be problems. This isn't quite the same as Mnlars and Mnsure, is it? I mean, that was computer crashing. Is there any difference between these, Dave, or are they all the same?

[Kenny]

No, there's a difference here, I think, Jay. I think the system, the applications have generally worked much better than what Minlars and Mnsure did. I want to not just throw mud in order to throw mud. That's not what I'm going to do. But it is working for many. What it's not working for and where I'm having such heartburn about it is when I'm talking to the small employers who actually have to fund half of this thing. I'm talking to school administrators at have no way to backfill these people that are gone longer and longer than what they are expecting. Even through all of the agreements that collective bargainings and unions have had over the years. This is tipping the workforce absenteeism out the door. And that is where businesses who are the ones who have to hold the jobs and who are paying half the program, they were never really consulted in a meaningful way when they were building this program up, when they just wanted to offer a program that is helping families with bonding time and medical stuff. I mean, the program generally sounds wonderful. It is. I mean, who doesn't want this? But the reality is not everybody can be the medtronics and the 3Ms. And the best Buys that have these large benefits already. It doesn't work for all businesses. And I've got my own stories for people that are not making it work on a Business level, which is jeopardizing the rest of the whole company when they don't have a certain couple of people there that are out on paid family leave that is much longer than the company can handle.

[Gabe]

Representative the reason why we became interested in this topic is because we received an email from a business owner, M.J. who had a wonderful short term disability program in their business already, much better than the states. They had to take the states program. They qualify under state rules as a small business, less than 30 employees. But since they pay their employer employees so much, the state calls them a large business which somehow affects the payout amount. So we've got that going. An employee has an accident, ends up in the hospital, comes out of the stupor, you know, a few days, three days, four days after the accident and finds out he has to get involved with this Minnesota paid leave thing. And you can guess what happened. Delay after delay after delay. He's penalized for not signing up beforehand. Well, he was in an accident. How do you sign up for this when you're, you know, in a crash or something horrible happens and you're stuck in the hospital, no access to a computer. And so it took a long length of time to determine his benefit amounts and it just drug on and on and on. And meanwhile he wasn't getting any money. And the same thing that happened to our previous guest. Bills stack up, the state gives excuse after excuse and there's just no end in sight for it. Meanwhile, if the company he worked for didn't have to do this paid leave thing with the state, he would have been cared for by the company with their previous policies.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, because she said, she told us they had a plan that was as good, if not better in the states.

[Gabe]

Better than.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, how does something like that, how do you address that, you know?

[Kenny]

Well again, there might have been some little glitch if you didn't match it up exactly with what the state plan was. There were a lot of companies that actually were very close, but there was a couple little things that they just didn't match it. So they had to match the state completely. Doesn't matter if they gave them full pay for eight weeks or 10 weeks, they had to have the ability to be gone for 20 weeks up to 20 weeks. And so that is the problem that a lot of folks, they didn't have that extra eight week kicker. They didn't have some other little things. But so many companies knew how to build this because they would rather pay their employees 100% off for eight weeks for baby time or whatever for medical. But the state said no, no, no, you got to have at least to do 12 weeks at this part to have it off. And there was no equivalent manner to kind of balance it all out. That was one of the changes we wanted to do in the legislation. When we tried to offer some private options, some opt ins, just we wanted to make it so that it could work for a lot of those right now that were really close that had already been offering it to those people. Give them that, give them that grace to have that kind of, that grandfathered in because they were future thinking this is what they were wanting to do, this is what the state wants. I know the state had to do it all the same, no matter what. And it threw so many companies into sort of a disarray when they have to redo their whole benefit set because of this massive program that is a socialized insurance. It's just, it doesn't fit everybody. But the state didn't want to hear the right side of this thing.

[Jay Coles]

I didn't understand that. So if you had a company like MJ's, like what Kenny just read and you were already doing it and doing it better, you had no option to keep that. You couldn't opt out of the state program, you were forced into the state program.

[Kenny]

You could opt out of the state program but you had to get a third party or another insurance that would have to at least equal it.

[Jay Coles]

Oh, I got you.

[Kenny]

So you didn't have to go through the state program.

[Jay Coles]

Okay, gotcha.

[Kenny]

You had to have an offering. And some companies just, they were either too expensive to do it, they just thought, no, we can't do this. But again, the state should have recognized and we fought for this to give those employers who were, who were forward thinking, family thinking, who could have afforded to do this, they should have allowed them some grace, some ability to take it in. Because you know what's going to happen to those companies that had a program. If there's other programs that are better out there and they're going to lose somebody because of that competitive nature, what do you think the company's going to do? Yeah, they're going to change their policy to be competitive. That's what they've been doing the whole time. But it didn't work that way. And the problem is again, when you're an employer, you don't want to lose any good people. You're going to find ways of keeping them happy.

[Jay Coles]

Is the cost going to go up? Inevitably and if so, how long before

[Kenny]

it goes up, there's no way that the cost is not going to go up. I think in the next year, even or two, you may not see an increase this short term because the state of Minnesota is part of that $688 million they set aside to build it up. 500 million of that guys was set aside for the initial claims. So they put so much taxpayer money in the front end of this thing, they've got a lot of cushion to sort of say, okay, where's this going to kind of balance all out here in the next year or two with the premiums that are coming in, first quarter, second quarter, what's going out, they can kind of let this thing kind of play out. My guess is we won't see the commissioner attempt an increase for sure this year because of political reasons. But I mean, a year from now, I think you're going to probably see, okay, we're going to have to go up and do this here again. They put so much up front, they've given themselves some cushion to kind of see how this thing works for the next couple years.

[Jay Coles]

So wait till after the election.

[Kenny]

Yeah, you'll see a lot more in 2027 once the election is done. What is the actuarial cost going to do here? Because also a lot of people are getting overpaid. They were supposed to get between 67 and maybe up to 90% if you're a small income taker. What's happening, though, is because of the way they compute it, if you, they go back in the last four quarters of your earnings, if you had a high income in one of those quarters, that is your income for the entire year. Let's say you're a server and you make a lot of tips in the summer. Let's say you're an executive and you get a big bonus at the end of the year. Your highest quarter is going to maintain that, that rate. So you're going to get paid based on that highest quarter, and that is increasing the cost of the program, depleting the reserves. And people are loving the money, the extra money. That's fine. They're getting more closer to 90 to 95 to 98% of their pay. When we were sold, it was only supposed to be partial pay, but many, many, many times it is not.

[Jay Coles]

So, Dave, Dave, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gabe]

You're right. I know what you're about to ask.

[Jay Coles]

Some are getting overpaid and others aren't getting paid anything.

[Gabe]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kenny]

Correct. Right. Yeah. I mean, if you're on the program and you get approved, it's actually working pretty well. I don't know what the percentage is that is like your previous guest. I don't know that, but I know there's way too many. And that's a problem that has to be addressed, honestly. And I don't see the state Minnesota officials doing that honestly, that they're not fixing those people because those are real stories that aren't getting paid.

[Gabe]

How'd this come about, Dave? I know Ruth Richardson was the Chief author in 23, and then Cedric Fraser did an update in 24, but was there a big hue and cry for years and years about this? I don't remember how and why this came about.

[Kenny]

So I've been there for around 12 years. And I know that many years this has been thrown around. It's an idea, it's a concept. And when you have a balanced government, you've got Republicans in charge of one House and Democrats the other one, it all kind of balances it out. But the crazy stuff doesn't really get through because you just can't get there. But when they took over the trifecta in 23 and 24, so they had had a couple hearings on this before. This was Senator Mann's, I think, college theory paper or something. She had written this big thing. So I, you know, Senator Mann has a lot of fingerprints on this as well, along with Richardson when she was there. But again, the people that were there in the House anyway with, with Representative Richardson at the time, then Frazier kind of picked it up when she retired or resigned. She had very little interest to listening to a lot of people like businesses. I would go up to her where I was in the minority, I begged her to look at the real issues of small business. How about these folks with collective bargaining? We can't do this at this way. She just, they had very little interest of listening to our friends at the chamber, our friends with business. It was just. I've never felt so detached from reality because I was trying to share what it's like to be a business owner, how we try to do our very best with our company employees. But not every company is the same. And so there's seasonal businesses. There is manufacturing that needs to have people on the lines. There's teachers. And again, when you start looking at the details, I think it overwhelms them. And many of the DFL members that I've been working for, even since it's passed, when we need to make some small changes and tweaks to this, they don't want to touch it. They don't want to. They don't want to disrupt what, their moment of glory, their chalice, their. Oh, my God. They think this is the greatest piece of legislation that they've ever written ever. And they do not want to touch it. So, again, it's great if you got it, but if you don't have a job to come back to, this program is not going to work.

[Jay Coles]

Right.

[Gabe]

So many things happened during that stretch, that era that it was like they won the lottery and they just went on a drunken spending speed. We've talked about the weed, and I know we're way off topic with weed, but. So they legalized weed. Great. They did absolutely everything wrong. Everything wrong. They screwed it up so bad that.

[Jay Coles]

Well, and here, here's what's crazy, too. Kenny, sorry to interrupt you, but so to Dave's point, okay, so you love the program, right? This is their baby. But you can to not acknowledge the problems that a guy like Kevin Urban, my guest, is having. Yes, that's the part I don't understand.

[Gabe]

They don't even want to hear about.

[Jay Coles]

Don't want to even hear about it. That's, that's. Meanwhile, that's where you wag a finger.

[Gabe]

Dave, Our, our, our guest was fighting back tears. I mean, his life is being ruined, and we're trying to figure out how we can help him, you know, and I don't have any clues at a GoFundMe. Is it a church? What is it? How do we help Kevin? How do we help all of those people that are living this, that same nasty reality right now?

[Kenny]

The best thing I can do is I take it right to the very top and I start demanding answers. And usually when you start doing that at my level, you shouldn't. But it shouldn't matter who you know, it shouldn't matter who makes that call. It should just make sure that these people are taken care of. And if there's a problem, they should have been knowing this before they went on leave or something else should have happened. They should not be ruined because of this. Yeah, but his story is something that I really do want to hear. But, but again, this is just. It's all part of my concern about Minnesota and where we're at with being this upper Midwest economic engine with all of our headquarter companies. Do you know how much we are hurting now, five years after the last five years and how we're not recovering like the neighboring states are? Their unemployment rates are going down, Ours are going up. And this is Very clear that employers are deciding. I don't know that I want to do this anymore here. And again, until we get serious about where is the heart of this program, it's with an employer. It's not with the state of Minnesota. They're administrating it. If the employers don't want to do this anymore and don't do it here and they start solely going away, our listeners here have to understand we have to care about what the employers think and what they need to make sure that they're successful. And I just want to tell really quick story. I was just this morning at an auto body shop here in Wilmer. He told me about paid family. His thing, one of his. The only painter he has. It's a 10 employee shop. His only painter is good painter. High high paid painter was out for 12 weeks because he was took his baby from 25 and he could take it in 26. So he left for 12 weeks because he could. So he couldn't have anybody painting cars. The other folks work on other issues and dings or whatever. So he lost his painter. So the owner was a painter. So he was working nights and weekends to just keep up. And when you lose a quality person, a very specific talent like that in a small shop, that employer can't have any income. So all those other employees were at risk. If he didn't know how to paint the owner, what would he have done?

[Jay Coles]

So you're telling me the whole revenue stop. Yeah, I was going to say literally, Dave, that whole business could have collapsed because of the one guy being gone

[Kenny]

because of one painter. That they have to rely on that one person who's an expert. And you don't go out and find an auto painter sitting on the street. They're just not there.

[Gabe]

No, they take that level of skill. Takes years and years and years to reach that level.

[Kenny]

Well Dave, again, nothing against the employee that took the time off. They were eligible to do that. But it doesn't work for the business.

[Jay Coles]

What I'll do is I'll get you. His name is Kevin Urban. I'll get you his contact information and I'll let Kevin know that you're going to call him and see if I told Kevin, Kenny and I. Yeah, Kenny and I said well we'll try to see if we can help you. Because he said by mid, mid September, if it's not fixed by mid September, he's really in a bad.

[Gabe]

But he's. He's not the only one. There's a long list.

[Jay Coles]

Long list. But we can only help one at a time. Right. So we'll help. We'll start with helping Kevin and we'll go from there. We'll just follow Kevin's story and see what happens.

[Kenny]

This program is affecting. It's a shockwave to the whole economic system in Minnesota. That is not a good balance. Even the esst, the Earn Sick and Safe Time has become a very highly abused program in a lot of industries like especially the part time workers where high school kids are going to call in if they've got six, seven hours built up because of the hours they worked. They're not using it because they're sick. They're using it because they can just call their employer. I'm not coming in. It gives the employer no power to say no, Johnny, you can't do. We gotta work on Friday night here. And you can't go to the football game. He's claiming he's sick. But they're not sick because they see it on Facebook. They're not sick.

[Jay Coles]

Correct.

[Kenny]

So there's not. We got a problem here in Minnesota about respecting our employees.

[Gabe]

We predicted this and unfortunately it's come true.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah, Dave, thanks for the time.

[Kenny]

Anytime. This is a big important issue. We got to fix this. We got it. It's not going to get repealed in the future. No matter who wins this election. We have to fix this. We have to right size it to the right businesses. But this is killing too many businesses and hurting too many people.

[Jay Coles]

Well, good chat with you again. Good seeing you again. Glad you're doing well.

[Kenny]

Take care, guys. Thank you.

[Jay Coles]

See you, Dave. Wow, Good day for a podcast. I told you there's some more good information right there from Dave.

[Gabe]

I was not ready for this. I was ready for MJ's story. I knew about that. Found that frustrating. Did receive another email from someone that doesn't want me to name that person, but same situation, good paying job and just everything about the state screwed that situation up for that person.

[Jay Coles]

Well, I had an email from Kevin and I had an email from another person who chose not to. It's difficult for them to go public. Yeah, yeah, And I get it. You know, it's a lot of private information that you're sharing. Insensitive. But Kenny was almost the same deal as Kevin's where they were approved but weren't getting the checks, the money. And so they were at wit's end because they were like, look, I've been approved but I'm not getting my money. I'm behind on my rent, I'm behind on My mortgage and the state just kept saying it's coming, it's coming, we're behind, but it's gonna. Well, that doesn't. Well, how can you approve it? But if you can approve it, I don't understand how you can't write the check. I don't care.

[Gabe]

But I want to read this to you and I'm going to have to clean it up as we go because I really don't want to identify this person or the jobs that this person has. Please don't use my name or the jobs. I ran into a big issue with the leave program submitted on April 9 for a May 11 surgery and was out until June 1. I worked two jobs. One a well paying job for a big company and a part time job for another big company. And I work two jobs, one is full time from home and two nights every Saturday, every weekend for the other one. The person got two payments on May 30, another one on June 3. The issue was they took the data from the four full time job that she was not taking time away from. They instead of the part time job which the person was taking away from.

[Kevin Urban]

Okay.

[Gabe]

Called him twice during the second call. Was told that they have an overpayment and underpayment tracker. They said they will be sending me a letter on how much to repay if needed. I just don't want to be audited and or accused of fraud. My application specifically stated which job I was taking leave from. I also wonder if anyone else is honest enough to call and state that they got paid incorrectly.

[Jay Coles]

Incorrectly.

[Gabe]

Yeah. Wow.

[Kevin Urban]

So.

[Gabe]

And like the, the representative just said, just said you get judged on your highest paying. Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

Highest quarter.

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

Highest pay during the quarter, whichever quarter that is. And that's why I said that's why when you said I already know what you're going to ask. I literally wanted to make sure I understood what Dave was saying because yeah, we got cases where people are getting overpaid and some people who aren't getting paid at all. So like Dave said, they gotta fix it. That can't. That would not be sustainable. I can tell you that right now. If you're overpaying some people and not paying others. Not sustainable. I'm gonna go out on a limb. Even Gabe agrees and they're gonna raise our taxes to support this. Like Dave said, after the election they'll and increased cost. Now we can't pull the plug. We have something more fun to talk about when you come back. It's so depressing.

[Gabe]

It's so Frustrating living in this state

[Jay Coles]

because it's well intentioned. I get it. But once again, just like when Minlars rolled out and Mnsure rolled out, you knew when this rolled out.

[Gabe]

And the minimum wage. Minimum wage. A lot of these companies, they can't afford to pay minimum wage.

[Jay Coles]

No, it's all tied together. And Holy man. But you know, kudos to Kevin to come on and tell us his story. You know, I mean, that's, you know, I don't know if I'd want the world to know I was in that kind of world of hurt. Maybe I would because it was the state doing it to me. But I don't know, I just felt bad for the guy and I'm glad Representative Baker's going. You know what? Dave's gonna help. Dave will help get him his check.

[Gabe]

And then what about the other 10,000 people?

[Jay Coles]

If they come, if they come on our show, we'll help them.

[Gabe]

Can you imagine being Dave walking around Wilmer, going into the coffee shop and getting, getting this. You listen here. I voted for you. Us just. He's just getting the business everywhere he goes.

[Jay Coles]

Yeah.

[Gabe]

And then if it's from the opposite side of the aisle, why are you, blah, blah, you hate human being.

[Jay Coles]

Can't win.

[Gabe]

Yeah.

[Jay Coles]

And I've known Dave, gosh, he's been there 12 years. So I've known him 12 years now because I got to know him. He had a very sad story where his son died of an overdose of fentanyl. And Dave's been on the forefront of doing a lot of great work with fentanyl at the Capitol. And that's how I got to know him. So I'm not surprised when he said, give me that guy's name, I'll go help figure it out and go to the top and get him his check. If Dave says he's going to do something like that, he'll do it. I love lawmakers like Dave, Representative Baker, because, you know, yeah, we like to poke fun at the legislature. It gives us good topics.

[Gabe]

Right.

[Jay Coles]

But there's a lot of guys like Dave up there doing the right thing and trying, you know, so kudos to Dave for willing to step in. Right. We'll see how it goes. We'll give the listeners an update. Kenny, we'll get Kevin his money.

[Gabe]

Boy, I sure hope so.

[Jay Coles]

We'll get him his money.

[Gabe]

I sure hope so. Thank you to our guests, thank you to Kevin and Dave, and thank you to Gabe and thank you, Jay Coles, and thank you. Most of all, thanks for listening to

[Jay Coles]

the Krabby Coffee Shop on a hard Wiener Wednesday.

[Gabe]

Smash that, like, button. Is that what I'm supposed to say? Yeah. Subscribe.

[Jay Coles]

I don't know.

[Gabe]

It's something.

[Jay Coles]

Every time I ask, you tell me. It's everywhere.

[Gabe]

Don't just sit there. Do something.

[Jay Coles]

Help us keep our jobs. See you. Bye.