CRABBY: NEW Developments Around MPD Promotions With Former Deputy Chief

Summary

Garage Logic Podcast: "CRABBY: NEW Developments Around MPD Promotions With Former Deputy Chief"

Date: June 3, 2026
Host: Gamut Podcast Network
Notable Guests: Retired Minneapolis Police Deputy Chief Greg Hestness

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the recent turmoil within the Minneapolis Police Department (MPD), centering on investigations, allegations of internal misconduct, and unusual promotion decisions involving top personnel. The hosts break down the abrupt resignation of Chief O’Hara, the controversy surrounding his personal driver, and discuss broader systemic issues with former deputy chief Greg Hestness. Together, they offer a candid, insider look at how MPD’s upper echelons are grappling with discipline, morale, promotions, and ongoing reform under a state consent decree.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chief O’Hara’s Resignation and Related Allegations

[03:39–06:17]

• Chief O’Hara’s sudden resignation caught many by surprise.
• The official reason: O’Hara interfered with an investigation regarding alleged inappropriate sexual interactions with city employees.
• Mayor Jacob Frey issued a letter stating O’Hara violated a direct order not to contact people involved in the investigation:

  "He or someone in his circle [was] texting one of the people in the investigation connected to the investigation… you can't contact the people involved." — A [04:54]

• The actual allegations against O’Hara were "unsubstantiated," but interference with the investigation was proven true.
• The show hosts compare this to situations in other workplaces where management waits for a “fireable offense” after building concerns.

2. The Controversy About O’Hara’s Personal Driver, Officer Ahmed

[09:48–14:32]

• O’Hara uniquely had a personal full-time driver, Officer Abdi Samad "AJ" Ahmed—a rarity among recent MPD chiefs.
• AJ is under two open Internal Affairs (IA) investigations:
  • One relates to a viral incident where he drew a gun on urban explorers while in casual attire.
  • The second is not public; being "relieved of duty" (with pay, under house-arrest-like conditions during scheduled work hours) indicates "extreme allegation of misconduct":

    "If you’re relieved of duty, that...is a strong indication. It’s a very, very serious allegation." — A [14:14]

• The misuse of limited MPD resources—assigning an officer as a personal driver while the department is understaffed—was criticized.

3. Questionable Promotions and Appointments Amid Investigations

[17:07–23:56]

• The conversation turns to the promotions of the mayor’s driver, head of Internal Affairs, and O’Hara’s own driver—despite open Internal Affairs investigations.
• Guest Greg Hestness confirms this is highly unusual and not standard practice:

  "Members of our team just didn’t get complaints. I hadn’t seen anything like this before." — Greg Hestness [28:36]

• Normally, promotions are put "on hold" until the resolution of open IA complaints.

  "You just can’t get a promotion while the investigation is still going. That’s how you understand it?" — A [22:09]

4. Possible Motivations & Implications for Department Morale

[23:56–28:29]

• Speculation about why individuals with ongoing misconduct complaints are getting plum assignments like driving for the chief or the mayor.
• Suggestion: Such assignments may be used to "park" troubled officers away from street duty, though this could hurt overall morale.

  "If you’ve got open IA’s, you should not get a promotion until those are closed...what does that say to the others and what does it do to morale?" — A [28:07]

5. Ongoing Culture & Historical Comparisons within MPD

[28:29–39:49]

• Episodes of previous leadership (e.g., Tony Bouza's era) are recalled for context, noting how unusual current events are compared to previous decades.
• Hestness recalls a time when political favoritism and "pounding lawn signs" led to promotions—a practice thought to be eradicated.

6. Outlook for Interim Chief & Departmental Future

[34:20–38:54]

• Acting/interim leadership: Bill Peterson named interim chief.
• Both hosts and Hestness express respect and confidence in Peterson, noting broad support among active and retired officers:

  "The retired MPD Facebook group with all the old retired crabby cops. Love the guy. They think, you know, they just have a ton of respect." — Greg Hestness [35:15]

• Skepticism remains about how much difference even good leadership can make under the current city council.

7. Systemic Reform and the Consent Decree

[61:31–64:33]

• Discussion of MPD’s state-level consent decree issued by the Minnesota Department of Human Rights, after federal oversight was discontinued.
• ALIFA ("Effective Law Enforcement For All") is the external group overseeing the department’s compliance.
• Anonymous surveys sent out by ALIFA to gauge officer wellness and experience may not be so anonymous, raising further trust issues.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Interfering with the Investigation:

  "If you're the chief of police, you cannot ... interfere with any investigation. It's a credibility thing, and you gotta go." — A [05:31]

• On Officer Relief of Duty:

  "If you’re relieved of duty, that … is a strong indication. It’s a very, very serious allegation that we don’t still know what it is." — A [14:14]

• On MPD Culture vs. St. Paul:

  "St. Paul has had a pretty good track record. It’s always from within...Why doesn’t Minneapolis just move in that direction?" — A [41:04]

• On Morale and Promotions:

  "If they had some open IAs and they still got promoted...that’s bad for morale." — Greg Hestness [28:07]

• On State Consent Decree:

  "This court enforceable agreement requires the city and MPD to adopt broad transformational changes." — B [63:26]

• On Transparency and Trust:

  "It was supposed to be anonymous...if it’s this secure that I can get it and send it to Jay Coles...how anonymous is it?” — A [62:30]

• On Political Appointments in the Past:

  "There was a time when Minneapolis officers would pound lawn signs for candidates. Is that true? … 'Yep.'" — A & C [44:27–44:37]

• Department Moto Humor:

  "Minimal effort, maximum glory." — B [59:59]

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Important Timestamps

• Chief O’Hara coverup/investigation explained: [03:39–06:17]
• O’Hara’s personal driver, gun incident, and leave explained: [09:48–14:47]
• IA open cases and unusual promotions broken down: [17:07–23:56]
• Greg Hestness on morale and culture: [28:29–33:25]
• Discussion of interim chief Bill Peterson: [34:20–38:54]
• State consent decree and anonymous survey controversy: [61:31–64:33]

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Language and Tone

The hosts maintain Garage Logic’s characteristic irreverence, skepticism, and camaraderie throughout, mixing gallows humor with pointed, detailed analysis. They don’t shy from naming names (when appropriate), devote real attention to policy mechanics, and frequently highlight the absurdities borne from bureaucratic or political mishandling. The episode is a mix of news-breaking, insider commentary, and classic “Crabby Coffee Shop” banter.

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Conclusion

This jam-packed episode offers a granular, unvarnished look into recent MPD leadership shakeups, disciplinary procedure inconsistencies, and why these issues matter for department integrity and morale. The guest’s institutional memory sets today’s headlines against four decades of department culture—helping listeners understand why the latest news might be more troubling than Minneapolis politics’ usual churn. A must-listen for anyone following Twin Cities public safety or city government.

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For more, listen to full episodes at garagelogix.com, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[A]

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Garagelogic isn't just another podcast. It's a trusted voice with a loyal audience.

[A]

Every day, listeners tune in and pay

[B]

attention to the businesses we feature. When you advertise with garagelogic, you're putting your brand in front of people who listen and act. We're number one in Anguilla and we'll make your business number one with G Ellers. Here's what one of our clients had to say.

[A]

Hey, it's Pete Arnold from Hire it Pro. And I've used garagelogic to promote my business for years and I have seen great results and new clients for my

[B]

services from the Glers audience. I recommend it to any business looking for new customers.

[A]

G l ers are pretty awesome.

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You just gotta ask for an introduction. You just heard how garagelogic delivers results for our advertising partners. Now it's your turn. Reach our engaged audience of g allers and grow your business by contacting account executive mark [e-mail] that's mark.ellisbi.com Put your message where it belongs, right in the ears of listeners who trust garagelogic. Well, the Minneapolis Police Department is the gift that keeps on giving if you're in our line of work, isn't it, Jay?

[A]

Yeah, there's the wells never dry.

[B]

We had a banger of a show last weekend and turns out a lot of people downloaded it. A lot of people watched it on YouTube. Some of my. One of my arch enemies even promoted it. I was surprised by that. And thank you arch enemy. I appreciate it. Good for that didn't mention my name. Mentioned your name. Didn't mention the show, but still provided a link. That's all I care about.

[A]

Oh, that's as long as people are watching or listening. Right.

[B]

And. Yeah, exactly. And then there's other people around town that are taking credit for breaking the story, even though they have nothing to do with news. But they're saying, oh, yeah, I had that. I had that two months ago. You. You had what two months ago? And who did you announce it to?

[A]

Yeah. What are they talking about? Are they talking about the stuff about the chief's driver?

[B]

Yeah, the chief. And the chief's preferences. Off duty preferences.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

So we're going to have. Excuse me. We're going to have a guest on today, Retired Minneapolis police Deputy Chief Greg Hestness coming up in a few minutes. But I thought before we get to him, let's just background everybody on what went down last weekend and what we learned off the air and all the stuff that you had been sitting on for years, but because you're a journalist, you didn't release any of it, starting with Chief o'.

[C]

Hare.

[B]

Just it was a surprise to a lot of people that he stepped down. The mayor, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry sent a letter and Jay, the letter and everything was related to. And help me out here if it sounds like I'm struggling to the chief interfering with an investigation. Right.

[A]

That's the allegation.

[B]

Well, so it was a cover up type of situation.

[A]

Yeah. Or at least an attempt to cover up because. So I guess it's not even an allegation anymore. According to the mayor, it was proven to be true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There was an investigation into alleged sex sexual inner interactions between Chief o' Hara and more than one city employee.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Unnamed. Right, Right.

[B]

And as far as we know, one we know for sure was a female. Rumor has it that the other one. Also a female.

[A]

Yeah, I.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

No, I can speak to one. I can tell you for sure. One is definitely a woman. The other one I can't speak to with any confirmation. However. Then what happened in the middle of that, Kenny? Somewhere along the line, o' Hara was ordered not to talk to city employees about the investigation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what he violated. And he was apparently he or someone in his circle texting one of the people in the investigation connected to the investigation. So that's a big no. No, you can't contact the people that are involved in the investigation. And then b, supposedly on the same phone he was talking about the investigation with other city employees.

[B]

So including Go ahead. I'm sorry, I should have cut you off.

[A]

So that would be the intersection where they would say, oh, that's an interference with the investigation. Doesn't mean what he was being investigated for was found to be true.

[C]

Right.

[A]

They said that was unsubstantiated. However, in the middle of all this, if you're the chief of police, you cannot. It's like, everybody would understand. Right, Kenny, we don't have to explain why chief of police cannot interfere with any type of investigation. It's a credibility thing, and you gotta go.

[B]

I don't know if this is a good comparison, but in my life in radio, I've noticed that some employees have fallen out of favor with management, and management is just waiting for them to F up. And when they finally do, that employee isn't there for five minutes and they're escorted. It's like, you finally screwed up. You're gone. That's what this kind of reminds me of. They have all these allegations, but they couldn't prove anything. And finally the chief did this and is like, oh, that's enough. See ya.

[A]

And I'm glad you used that analogy. Getting back to what reporters have to deal with. Same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're hearing enough. I told you last week, I started hearing about things about Chief o' Hare within his first month or two on the job.

[B]

Oh, right, right. I was gonna make reference to that. Did you talk. Did we talk about on the air or off the air? The letter you received. Because I'm asking you on the air now, because evidently the mayor of Minneapolis received the same letter.

[A]

Yes. I wasn't the only one who received this letter. I was the. I don't. I'm pretty sure I was the only one in our newsroom to get. Looks like it went to individual reporters and, you know, radio, newspaper, tv, as well as to all the city council members and the mayor. So I had the same letter that everybody else had, and it was just.

[B]

Was it anonymous, Jake?

[A]

Yeah. The return address only said Newark City hall, which is Newark, New Jersey.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it outlined all kinds of allegations about Chief o'. Hara. Now, some of it that was in there I could say was true. Some of the stuff he'd been disciplined before in New York was public record. But there was a lot of salacious stuff in there that you can't touch it because you can't prove any of it. And same thing to what you just said. Employers wait around, so they get something that's actionable and they finally fire someone. Same with a reporter. You can't sometimes report everything, you know, because you don't have the documentation or somebody on the record. But you wait for that opportunity where they finally screw up. And now you're like, okay, I can talk a little bit more, at least a little more freely about some of this stuff. And that's kind of where. Where it's at.

[B]

So we're going to just. You know what, we're going to dance around this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm not going to say what the allegations are. Most people have been going around on the Internet taking credit for knowing this, and then they gleefully publish it or talk about it because the chief's a public figure, you know, and you can do that. I don't want to go up and talk to the lawyers.

[A]

No.

[B]

For anything.

[A]

So stick to what you know that you can prove.

[B]

All these people like to claim that they know the sword details of his off duty life. And we have a photo that's been published of the chief and his wife that should disprove all these allegations. Go ahead, Gabe, put that photo up.

[A]

I've seen that photo before.

[B]

Okay, I think we've. I think we've seen enough. So that's a happily married couple.

[A]

Hey, you know the couple that stays in the weight room together. Stays together.

[B]

It's bigger than my thigh and I'm a lard ass.

[A]

Listen, I got bird legs. They're bigger than. One arm is bigger than both of my thighs pinned together. That's awful, Kenny. That's awful.

[B]

So we didn't actually say anything. We just provided you with proof that he's happily married.

[A]

Happily married. Now, I can tell you, though, she never moved to Minneapolis with their children. She did stay in Newark, New Jersey.

[B]

You know, there's a happy marriage is a couple that it's half a coffee. First of all, you sleep in separate beds. The only thing better than separate beds is separate bedrooms. The only thing better than separate bedrooms, Separate residences. That's the happiest married couple you'll ever find. Okay, let's move on. Let's move on. I just want to.

[A]

There's so much truth behind that, it's incredible.

[B]

Oh, yeah. The other thing I want to talk about. And I was surprised to learn that the chief had a personal driver. Yeah, I was surprised to find it out, Officer. Abdi Samad Ahmed. Or are they calling him A.J.

[A]

his nickname's AJ, right? Yeah, somebody called him A.J.

[B]

so how did he become his driver? Can you talk about that?

[A]

Well, the best I know is that o' Hara simply handpicked him that's who we wanted. I'd heard some other things about him that I can't really prove, but that's who o' Hara wanted. And interestingly enough, I've talked to so many officers since our story aired or our podcast aired last Wednesday. I got here in 92 when John Locks was the chief. So that's 30 plus years. And I walked through every chief with every officer that I talked to and none of them could remember any of the chiefs having a driver. One thought maybe Harto might have had a part time driver for certain events kind of thing, but never a full time driver. Right. And so that was unique. That surprised me. And then, then I started to hear that the driver either lived with him in the condo complex in Minneapolis, like as a roommate, or had his own place in the same condo complex as the chief. It was one of the two. Which led us to the video we showed last week of the driver, AJ Officer Ahmed. I forgot his last name off the top of my head right now when he pulled out a gun on some urban explorers on the top of that condo unit in his sweatshirt, flip flops and T shirt, it was not. It was such a strange video. And I do know, and I can tell you this, I've confirmed through sources who have like, you know, firsthand knowledge of this, he is. There still is an open internal affairs investigation into that incident.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[A]

So, yeah, he became the driver simply because that's Oharis. That's who I wanted, but it was highly unusual. You know, you might understand it. Kenny, let's say he comes from Newark, right. And he's new to the town and he's trying to figure out his way around and learn his way around, maybe have a driver for a couple of months.

[B]

That makes perfect sense too.

[A]

Yeah, that would make sense, but in

[B]

this case, especially when you have to be to a crime scene right now.

[A]

Yes. Or just to learn the neighborhoods and who's who in the neighborhood, all that kind. But after that and when. And the reason I bring this up, because all the cops that I've been talking to have said the same thing. When you're down 3, 400 officers, every officer counts. So why chew up even one? As the driver of the chief, does that really, really necessary? Which is a fair question. Right. I'm surprised nobody ever on the city council. Nobody ever. I don't think anybody ever really challenged

[B]

him about that, but I wonder if they even knew. So o', Hara, as he was packing up his bags, Officer Ahmed was relieved of police duties. Now, a Lot of. I've seen. I shouldn't say a lot. I've seen a few people saying that he was laid off or he was fired.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Relieved of duty. Rod is not being fired. You are just taking. You're pulled off the line. Yep. You get to stay home.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Watch daytime TV and get paid for it. And they're doing that while he is under investigation.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Maybe for the incident you mentioned on the rooftop. Maybe for other things.

[A]

This. He's got two open investigations right now. I know. One is for the rooftop thing. The. This one must be different. I can only. Here's why. I can tell you it must be different, Kenny. With the union contract. So the union contract, the MPD union contract with the city lists when you're relieved of duty. It lists the reason as extreme. And that's the word. Not my word. But in the contract, extreme allegation of misconduct. That's where relief of duty, being relieved of duty comes in. Okay, so it's different than personal leave. It's different than all these things that you might be seeing on the Internet right now. Yeah, it's a little bit different in that it's taken to the. Doesn't mean it's true, Kenny. Doesn't mean that the investigation is over and something bad was found. It simply means the allegation is extreme. Therefore, he is now relieved of duty with pay. And that means whatever his schedule is. And they generally schedule these guys and gals between Monday through Friday, 9 to 5. Right. That they just move their schedule to something dayside and normal. They have to be in their house at all times. Oh, and there will be phone calls to make sure they're at their house at all times. Only during their shift. Just during their shift.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

And you better be there if they drop by and pay you a visit. And if you're not, then it's actionable and you can be fired. Right. They start the termination process. So it's kind of like house arrest for your shift and you don't have your gun anymore. It's kind of.

[B]

It's your relief duty shut in like me. I would love that. Sorry. Can't leave the house.

[A]

All the Mac and cheese and wieners you want. So it is a more serious step based on the allegation. In other words, you know, if you're accused of slapping somebody's cell phone out of their hand in public, you're not going to get relieved of duty. Right. You know, that kind of thing. But if you're relieved of duty, that I'm Told by multiple sources. That's a strong indication. It's a very, very serious allegation that we don't still know what it is.

[B]

Let's take a quick break and bring our guest in here and we'll be off to the races.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[B]

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[A]

lucky to be joined by Greg Hestnas, former MPD Minneapolis Police Deputy Chief. Of course, Kenny Olson's here. Chief, you got to hear us talk a little bit about. We set the show up with a little bit about what we talked about with o' Hara last week. And then I found out some other things about his driver, the mayor's driver, the head of Internal affairs, that we wanted to bring you in on this discussion to talk about how these things work and why things happen the way they do within mpd. So thanks for taking the time. We do appreciate it because I know you're busy. But first and foremost, Greg, I want to share this with you. As I told you on the phone, you. You have the chief's driver, Ahmed, with two open internal affairs investigations. Important to note. Those two came after he received the appointment and the promotion to drive the chief. Important to note. There. The mayor's driver, Ibrahim Jadal. He's got six open internal affairs investigations. Greg. Those six came after he was appointed or. Excuse me, prior to being appointed or promoted to be the mayor's driver. So that's prior to driving for the mayor, he had six investigations. And then the head of Internal Affairs, Commander Yolanda Wilkes, two open investigations, internal affairs investigations on her.

[B]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You gotta say that again, because what you just said didn't make any sense at all.

[A]

No, it didn't.

[B]

Slow it down for Kenny's brain.

[A]

That's why we're gonna bring Greg, and he'll help us understand how all this works. So the head of Internal Affairs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is Commander Yolanda Wilkes.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Prior to being appointed the head of Internal affairs, she had two open internal affairs investigations on her. And I can tell you.

[B]

Have they been resolved?

[A]

No. And I can tell you, I found out from sources, both are serious matters. They're not something lightweight. And however it was they were, she had those open investigations, yet still got promoted by Chief o' Hara to be the head of Internal Affairs. So Chief o' Hara promoted the mayor's driver with open investigations. He promoted the head of Internal affairs with open investigations, and now we've learned that his own driver has been relieved of duty. So, Chief, how does that happen? And your tenure of 30 years at MPD, did you ever see anything like that? And for the public. Why should the public care about something like that? How is it that you can get promotions when you have open internal affairs investigations? How is that possible?

[C]

Well, first of all, I was with Minneapolis for 28 years, and then I was the chief at the U12, so I got to be 40.

[A]

40? Yeah. I knew it was about 30 with MPD, though.

[C]

40 years, five days to be exact.

[A]

But who's counting?

[C]

Like, we're disgusting. I mean, a lot of this is just plain unusual to have members of the command team garnering so many IA complaints. Now, as we discussed, I think we really should know the nature of. And hopefully we will. As we discussed with o', Hara, with unusual things like the surge, I mean, you could count on one side of the equation complaining that he didn't intervene and arrest ICE agents, and the other side complaining that he was too involved helping him, you know, So, I mean, either side's going to lodge complaints, so. Because he did rack up a grain of salt, you know exactly what. What they're about.

[A]

Yeah, but because he had 30 of them at one point.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, those are big, big events, and I'd like to sort out how many of them had to do with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

So, Jay, it sounds like you go back a little more and a little more intimately with this chief's history than I do. But. So, I mean, it's not all that obviously.

[A]

No, but. But how. But he.

[C]

But.

[A]

But chief. He.

[C]

He.

[A]

As o' Hara was chief, he gave promotions to two, you know, the mayor's driver and the head of IA While. While they had open investigations. I mean, that is unusual, because I can tell you this. I've talked to you six current and former MPD officers, seven, including you, and the other six, have all said, yeah, if you have an open internal affairs investigation and you're up for promotion, you're put on hold until that IA investigation is done. So they thought it was not just unusual, they thought it was irregular.

[C]

Yeah, well, it certainly be some adding some work. I mean, if somebody has an allegation, they're next up on the promotional. It's usually rule of three. So they're one of the next three coming up for promotion. If it turned out to be an unfounded allegation, you wouldn't want to hold somebody's future back because of that. But you want to hold it. You probably want to hold the position.

[A]

Right? That's what I'm saying. Hold the position. That's usually what happens is what I've been told is the position is held and you can't get the promotion. Doesn't mean you won't get the promotion. You just can't get it while the investigation is still going. That's how you understand it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No, I mean, that makes perfect sense.

[A]

So here's another situation where Chief o' Hara kind of went outside the bounds a little bit, if you will. Right. In fairness, his driver got the two open investigations after he was promoted, but the mayor's driver and the head of IA had those open investigations, yet still got promoted, which doesn't seem to be how it's normally done. And I gotta believe. I gotta also believe, Greg, what does that say to those who are sitting waiting in line on the promotion list who don't get a chance to do it because these guys got appointed before their cases were closed? You know, what does it do to morale.

[C]

So are you referring to an actual promotion? Civil service? Increase in rank?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Not just an assignment to become the mayor's driver. Anybody. There's no. No more money or anything in that.

[A]

No. Here's what. Here's how it was told to me, Greg.

[C]

Opportunities.

[A]

Here's how it was told to me. Promotion's probably not the right word. You're correct. It was. Here's how it was explained to me. Those are two kind of plum assignments that if you get them, you know, you're off the street. They're kind of good. Really. Plum assignments. And if you're the driver for the chief and the driver for the mayor, when there's another promotion and you're up for it, you're gonna get it, so. Yes, but the other. The other example, the head of internal Affairs, Yolanda Wilkes. Commander Wilkes. That's different. That was a promotion to commander while she had open investigations.

[C]

If you remember. You remember Bernard Kerik out in New York City? Well, he went down in disgrace, but he was a commissioner, and prior to that he was the mayor's driver, so.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Interesting. I could. Could the thinking Jay and chief with the mayor's driver here in the Metro. Could that just be a matter of putting him somewhere where he won't do any further damage, or is that an absurd question?

[A]

No, it's fair. I mean, I guess you don't know what I guess. Unless you knew something about his background that determined he wasn't quite up to snuff, then maybe that is a safe place for him to be driving the mayor.

[B]

But, I mean, here's the. You know, we don't want you on the street anymore, so here's a promotion.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

That doesn't make sense in my mind.

[A]

No. And that could very well be what it is.

[B]

Kenny's not.

[A]

Well, I don't think we'll ever know. But what does it do, Greg?

[C]

That would surprise me. But it's. It is true when, you know, people maybe garner too many complaints or whatever. I mean, that they. They have been parked on occasion, you know, try to find somewhere where they're not going to cause harm.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Like the auto desk, you know, or some. I don't know what even. What jobs they have anymore. Property and evidence or, you know, something where they. And. But in this day and age, you know, as. As thin as the Minneapolis Blue Line is, you wouldn't want to park too many people if they're fit for duty and you're not concerned about their behavior. So it's probably a High Bar to take people off the street right now. Took detectives out of their assignments because they need the patrol.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yep. So it could be, you know, six open investigations for the mayor's driver. Let's put him in the mayor's car and have him drive the mayor around, because right now we've got too many IA complaints. It could be. Could it be something like that, Greg?

[C]

Unless something's changed. The mayor typically gets a lot of say about who his driver is going to be. His report to the chief, and, you know, he's going to say, I want that individual. Charlie Adams was Mayor Sells Belton's driver. Mike Kirchen was Ortiz driver. I'm not sure what happened after that, but.

[A]

Well, we had. You had. Was it. Who was Fry's driver before Ibrahim? Can't think of his name now. Blackie Blackwell. Can't think of his first name. But anyhow, did you know him?

[C]

It would be Steve Blackwell.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's it. Blackie. I always called him Blackie. His nickname was Blackie. You guys all have nicknames? You guys all have nicknames. That's what you go by.

[C]

Steve Black. Oh. Katie Blackwell's spouse, you know.

[A]

Oh, I did not know that.

[C]

Yeah, the. The true. Who was then.

[A]

I don't think that was the same Blackwell, but anywho.

[C]

Okay, so maybe not Steve.

[B]

He is. He's now working in Pine County. The deputy chief in Pine County.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The former driver for Fry.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, there you go. Yeah, there you go. I didn't know that. I didn't know he was married to Katie.

[B]

But he didn't do anything wrong. We're just using him as an example. Correct.

[A]

He got. Something happened to him legally. I can't remember what it was.

[B]

We don't need to drag him into this.

[A]

No, he left on his own, I believe.

[B]

Let's leave him alone.

[A]

But this whole notion, Greg, that again, as it was explained to me, if you've got open ias, you should not get a promotion until those are closed. Does that. If that happens, let's just say with Commander Wilkes, for example, she had open investigations, I'm told. Still got promoted to commander because she wasn't commander at the time. What does that say to the others and what does it do to morale? How does that affect the others involved?

[C]

Well, I mean, you know, the officers generally know a lot about the candidates, and so that would be one factor, you know, if they had some open IAs and they still got promoted. But, you know, there's people that say you had been the mayor's driver and otherwise. You didn't have a good reputation for your, for your work. That's bad for morale. So.

[A]

Yeah. When I told you this stuff last night, what was your reaction? Were you surprised or what was your reaction to it all?

[C]

When we talked, I was. And I met as. As in the chief's office for nine years. Started with locks, and then mostly under Bob Olson, and I was the 5th Precinct inspector under locks, and members of our team just didn't get complaints. I hadn't seen anything like this before.

[A]

Well, that's another thing I wanted to ask you about. Back in 2023, Kenny and I talked about this last week. I did a story. I had three complaints leaked to me on o', Hara, and I started hearing things about him. Two, three months into the job, and this was only nine months in, he already had three complaints, Greg. And three of them, you know, all three of them were serious. They weren't light complaints. And I just thought it was very odd. I couldn't remember a time where chiefs were getting internal affairs complaints because, number one, they're not on the street on a daily basis. That's the first and foremost. Right? So to you too, this seems very odd, that you've got a chief with complaints and you've got commanders with complaints, Head of Internal affairs with complaints, the mayor's driver, the chief's driver, all have complaints that are open and that, like you said, that's the upper echelon. People close to the chief and the mayor just seems odd. Is that. How would you describe it? Just odd or how do you, how do you explain it?

[C]

I don't know. I mean, the atmosphere, I, I, you know, what, the culture. I don't know what you would say. The only one I can remember, and you might go back with this was Tony Boza.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Got suspended for a day for saying that. Something about Walter Dietzik being somebody in drag. Mayor Fraser suspended him. Suspended him for a day. And Bose, he's right. I accept my suspension.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The mayor said, that's funny. Take a day off.

[A]

That is funny for those who don't, who aren't old timers like Greg and I. Walt Diedzik was a city council member at the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a retired police officer, right?

[B]

I think so, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So he went after that.

[B]

Boza came to us from New York.

[C]

New York.

[A]

So Boza. This is right before I got here. I didn't get here until 92. So Boza actually went after. He went after Walter, Greg. He went after Walter Yeah, well, there

[B]

was a big deal. I. I remember when Bozo was chief and he claimed we didn't have a gang problem.

[A]

Right.

[B]

When we did.

[C]

That was when he first got here.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And then they had the murder of Christine Kreitz.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

By the bloods out behind the Nick Lieutenant Center.

[B]

Was he the chief when the pizza. When the Pizza Shack. It was Jerry Hoff, right?

[A]

Yeah. Hoff got executed at Pizza Shack.

[B]

Who was chief then?

[A]

I was gonna say locks. John Locks.

[C]

Probably John. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because after locks, it was Olsen.

[C]

For four of my years in the chief's office, I was deputy chief of services, which meant I was the one who went to council most often. You know, I go to agenda setting and whatever they needed. We. I'd either present or get somebody to present it. Walter Deedzik, on occasion he just say, well, in constant say, you know what's going to do? You gotta fire all the deputy chiefs. I'm standing there. And then he told me afterwards. I didn't mean you.

[A]

I didn't mean you.

[B]

Not you.

[A]

I missed the wall. I miss the wall. D6 of the world on the city council. I really do.

[C]

Father too, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

I knew Carrie. Yep. Yep.

[C]

And she was a good person.

[A]

So. You know, Greg, as we look at this in its totality, right, everything that's gone on with o', Hara, you know, as I said to you on the phone last night, he's done some good things. The thing with o', Hara, it's not like it's all been bad, but it just seems like he couldn't get out of his own way. And there were other promotions, Greg, that I've been told about that I didn't have time to get into because I've been talking to people since last Thursday. It seems like on and off about this. It just seemed like he was building a circle around himself and giving promotions to people and putting them around himself in a way to kind of. I don't know if protect is the right word, but a lot of them had some issues with IA investigations, and yet they were still promoted and brought into his inner circle. That's probably, as a former deputy chief, not the right way to go, is it?

[C]

No. And, you know, I don't know what his experience was like in Newark. As you and I talked about last night. There's something about the east Coast.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, that Bernard Carrick being the mayor's driver and becoming the commissioner, that sort of thing. So it probably was a piece of that, you know, they're allowed to, you know, build their own team, you know, unfortunately, probably protect them from their own behaviors on occasion, too.

[A]

So I just found out also today that another deputy chief, Mark Montgomery. So he was commander, now he's deputy chief. He just took leave. I just. Out of the blue. It was unexpected. I don't know. Have you heard anything about that? I hadn't heard anything about that. But apparently there's another deputy chief who's now on paid leave, like maybe personal leave or something like that. But he's gone for now.

[B]

So what can you two guys tell me about Bill Peterson, who's serving as interim chief right now?

[A]

My personal experience with Inspector Peterson is great. I think he's a great guy. I think it's a great choice. Straight up guy, as you saw in the news conference, he said, look, I'm not even interested in the chief's job, which I think was very telling. You know, he's not doing this to get the job.

[B]

So what did he come out of?

[A]

Jay first downtown.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he's got a lot of respect from the people. What do you think, Greg?

[C]

Well, absolutely. I have heard nothing bad about the guy. We didn't cry for that long. I've gone 23 years and he's been there 30, I guess. So we didn't have a lot of contact. Very positive. As I was telling you last night, the. The retired MPD Facebook group with all the old retired crabby cops. Love the guy. They think, you know, they just have a ton of respect.

[B]

Oh, good.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I discount a lot of what they say, but I think that's legitimate.

[A]

I think it's legit, too. As a reporter, you get a good feel for who's, you know, and you talk to a lot of cops. As a reporter, and my experiences were great. The cops seem to love them. I think he'd be a great choice to be chief, to be quite honest with you. But he doesn't want it. And I don't know if they would let him do his job. He'd be a great chief, but when you've got the city council with half of them sometimes or more, voting with the socialist bloc, no matter how good Peterson is, he's gonna. I don't know if he could do what he wants to do with the council the way it is. What do you think?

[C]

It's going to be a long four years with this makeup of the council. We did a little better. We went one or two more reasonable people on the council this time than before, so at least they don't have a veto proof majority anymore, but.

[A]

Correct. The veto proof is really important.

[C]

I've said long. What can you think what kind of chief did confirm?

[A]

Well, you were on the committee that helped select o', Hara, right?

[C]

I did, yep.

[A]

What was it in that?

[C]

Interviewed six, and he was by far the best of the six.

[A]

Yeah. You got your vote. I know that.

[C]

There's one question, you know, of all the problems, MPD has certainly morale has been one for quite some time now. And one of the questions we asked was specifically about morale. And there was another question where you could have gotten into morale, et cetera. And there was a woman who was probably the lead candidate. Up until we interviewed o' Hara and we got to that question about morale. She had nothing to talk about herself. She hadn't thought about what it's like to be a leader, what it's like to come into a new department that's morale problems, how to approach it. And o' Hara took that head on.

[A]

Did o' Hara also because he came from Newark, which was under a consent decree, the Newark Police Department was the fact that o' Hara had experience with consent decrees and the feds looking over your shoulder. I know you can't speak for the whole committee that picked o', Hara, but from your perspective, did that play a role? And you're thinking, hey, he's come from a department that's experienced this. Did that also give him a little bit of an advantage or did that not play into it?

[C]

Well, yes, and it sounded like. It sounded like they were pretty successful, not only getting it done, but building community support. So

[A]

what do you think they should do with the next one? Outside or inside mpd?

[C]

I think you need to bring in. Trying to be diplomatic. I think you bring in the best candidates and interview them all, you know, and if you think an internal person rises to the top, then go with

[A]

that, you know, because St. Paul only hires internal outsiders.

[C]

I think, you know, I think Bozo was the right guy at the right time. I know. It was just incredible how much he was hated by the rank and file because he was a pretty slack disciplinarian. And I don't know if they knew that or not, but. And he has some, you know, I mean, we. I was telling Jay last night, my first five years in the department, five police chiefs, it was. It was insane.

[A]

From 75 to 80. Kenny, he said there were five chiefs. I was, wow.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, well, they changed the charter. It was before that. It was strictly at will and very political. And they Changed the charter to give the chief a three year contract. So at least you had, you know, a little. You could get rid of them, but you had to buy them out if you. If you didn't get rid of them for cause. So. Well, that explains exactly what RT tried to do with Bob Wilson. He wanted him to leave. And, you know, Bob had done a good job. He clad us out of Murderapolis, and, you know, we did a variety of year after year improvements of things, and RT just wanted to leave. And he said, I got a contract, buy me out, and that that was it, the way they wanted to go.

[A]

But I didn't realize it was.

[C]

Bob was good. McManus was brief.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's kind of where we leave off with outsiders.

[A]

You know, I've worked with all of them. I thought I liked all of them. I like Dolan a lot. I thought Dolan was fine. I mean, I don't know what the rank and file. I can't remember. It's been so long ago. I can't remember when each chief comes and goes with the rank and file thought. But, you know, St. Paul, you know, let me ask you this, Greg.

[C]

I was a finalist in that one with Tim and.

[A]

Oh, you were? I didn't know that.

[C]

Actually. I'd been. Yeah, yeah. And I'd been Tim's supervisor when I was in D.C. and then he was a North side inspector when I left. We were on the SWAT team together for years.

[A]

So I didn't know that.

[C]

And actually, when I had. I had my big interview with the community, it was up at the park board, and they're probably 12 or 15 people asking us questions. And really, at the end, they said, anything you'd like to add? I don't know how many interviews you guys have had, but, you know, sometimes you walk away thinking, why did I say that? Or why didn't I say this?

[B]

That's every day of my life, Craig.

[C]

That was one where I did a good. I felt good about my interview. But at the end, I just said, you know, we kind of got beat up with McManus. If. If you wanted to select him, I wouldn't have any problem with that. You know, and it.

[A]

Let me ask you this.

[C]

They recommended him to the mayor.

[A]

Let me ask you this. St. Paul has had a pretty good track record. It's always from within. Even their command staff, always from within. Right. Why doesn't Minneapolis just move in that direction and just do what St. Paul has done? Why not? Why is it so different? I don't get it?

[C]

Yeah, Good question. Well, you know, when I went to the uni, I always knew people in St Paul, but when I went to the university, I also joined Ramsey Chiefs. So, you know, I had a lot more interaction. We had a campus on that side of the river, so more interaction with St. Paul. Then I actually joined the Latino Peace Officers association for a few years. And that was mainly St. Paul based. Some Minneapolis, mostly St. Paul. And one of the guys asked me if I was going to apply. One of the times I said, they never pick somebody outside of St. Paul guys. So that's a no.

[A]

Right. They don't.

[C]

You know, they pick. If you look at it, they pick them. They do three, two, three year terms and they're done.

[A]

Right. It's usually six years, every single one of them.

[C]

Yep, yep. And you know, it's. But six years is probably not a bad process.

[A]

Right? That's a good run. Six to eight, because that can be a draining job and you want fresh. Six years is a good. It gives you long enough to establish what you want to establish and you're not there too long to become stale. Right.

[C]

You know, and I got to know him well enough that I. The phrase, well, it's not the St. Paul way, you know, when you do certain things. Right.

[A]

Why doesn't Minneapolis. But why does it. Here's what I don't get, though, Greg. Why doesn't Minneapolis look at that model and replicate it?

[B]

Because you can't. You can't invent that out of whole cloth, Jay. That has to be natural.

[A]

You're probably right.

[B]

It's got to be kind of grassroots is the wrong way to put it.

[A]

Organic or whatever they call it.

[B]

Organic is the word I'm looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

You just can't make it.

[C]

I'll say this too, even though. Well, on the different side, I don't know what it is now, but Minneapolis hit. Minneapolis. St. Paul had about the same property crime rate. Minneapolis, violent crime was always like two and a half times. It's different in some ways, that's true.

[A]

There is more violent crime in Minneapolis.

[C]

They didn't have that many more officers that were truly St. Paul residents that grew up there than Minneapolis. Yeah, but they just.

[A]

But their command staff by the community

[C]

in response. I mean, they treated it like this. Our community. You know, I knew one person who lived in Stillwater, Sergeant St. Paul, and she was just beloved, you know, as a member of the community. So, yeah, I mean, over my career, you know, when they really started moving out of the city, they used to have a lot more influence when they. You know, they would. One of my first coaches, Tommy Doyle, came to work one day when he was coaching me. He gave me a rubber mallet and I said, what's that? He said, that's your promotion kit for pounding lawn signs. Because that's the way it used to be. Go out and pound lawn signs for a council member in power. They call the chief and take care of you. Wait, that was a battle.

[A]

Wait. Great, great, great. Can we. So there was a time when Minneapolis officers would pound lawn signs for candidates. Is that true?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

That's the best breaking news I've heard.

[C]

That's fun. Breaking news. Or whatever the good person was back in the day.

[A]

Could you imagine?

[C]

That's why we have five police chiefs, too, right? Five police chiefs.

[B]

Hey, can you imagine now a cop.

[C]

Oh, Greg.

[B]

Can you imagine now a cop being told, hey, go pound somebody signs for Chuggy.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Yeah. No, they're gonna tell you what to pound. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Hey, let's get back to Minneapolis.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you guys think? So Katie Blackwell will go back to her job, right?

[A]

I don't know. There's. Now there's a 5th Precinct inspector already there. I don't know what'll. Maybe she'll stay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm wondering about her future deputy chief until the new chief gets. I suppose. Yes. But she can't go back to fifth Precinct, right?

[B]

Wouldn't, in theory, the new chief take a look at her history and go, I'm gonna reassign you.

[A]

She hasn't really been found guilty of anything. You know, the perjury stuff was all allegations, right?

[B]

That's what I'm referring to.

[A]

Yeah, but there was allegations. Nothing concrete.

[B]

She is not loved among the staff or the. Among the police officers. I got a correspondence going with a current Minneapolis police officer who does not want his name on this program, and he says she has. The police officers have no confidence in her.

[A]

Is that right? I've not heard that about her. I've heard, you know, it's kind of split those who like her and those who don't like her, but.

[B]

And you know about the 14 officers, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. With the perjury thing.

[A]

The perjury thing. But again, nothing was proven, just allegations. And so I've talked to some officers who like her, Kenny. Some who don't. And you gotta remember, too. And Greg can probably speak to this, maybe when you're a deputy chief and she's an assistant chief. So she's above a Deputy chief. Probably gonna piss some people off, Right? If you gotta be the boss and call.

[B]

Isn't that what they say? You're not doing your job unless you do.

[A]

Yeah. Greg, what do you know about Katie? I wouldn't know well enough to be able to speak to her, to be honest with you. What do you hear?

[C]

My experience was. My experience was good. I mean, when I. I left. So I left the university in 2015. That was after 12 years there. And so I had some inter. I think she had training at the time.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And so we had some interaction with her. It was positive. And.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, when I've needed anything since, you know, either when I was at the university or now that I'm John Q. Citizen. I told Jay this. I write a little bit for a publication called the Minneapolis Times.

[A]

Yeah. Kenny reads Minneapolis Times.

[B]

I read it every day. Every day. It's a great source of material.

[C]

Occasionally I'd have to call an active duty person and get the straight scoop on something before I wrote and. Okay. He was helpful to me in that respect.

[A]

Yeah. I've heard various things about her, so I don't know.

[C]

At some point, o' Hara quit returning my calls and I think after an article I wrote, so I didn't want

[A]

to bring that up unless you did, but he got mad at you for something. I don't know what it was, but who.

[B]

I missed the name.

[C]

O'. Hara.

[B]

Oh, o'. Hara.

[A]

He said he used to text o' Hara on a regular basis. Then all of a sudden, out of the blue, o' Hara stopped texting him. And he thinks it might have been something he wrote in the Minneapolis.

[B]

He did that with. Didn't he also do that with cco, either tv, radio.

[A]

Yeah, he suspended there.

[B]

Ghosted him.

[A]

Suspended their relationship or however they wanted to phrase it. Something like that. Would Katie state. She would. So she's. She's assistant Chief, not deputy Chief. But she would stay in that position I'm assuming until the next person comes in. Right.

[C]

They changed the ranks since I was there. Chiefs, Yep.

[A]

And that's higher than deputy chief. Yeah.

[C]

There are. No, I don't think they have captains and lieutenants. I think they're commanders.

[A]

Commanders, Yes.

[C]

A lieutenant's a commander now, so they're appointed in at will position. So the only thing she owns is whatever permanent rank she had, whatever civil service rank she had. Why do you think that's not the same?

[A]

Let me interrupt you. Why do you think she was appointed acting chief. Right. And then they went with Inspector Peterson as Interim chief. And somebody asked me, what was the difference? And I don't know. Does acting mean something different than interim? And why was that move made? Do you have any idea?

[C]

It does. It does. I mentioned Bob Olson. He traveled a lot. He was the president of years. And so I was acting chief many, many times over nine years. Just. He'd be away and out of town.

[A]

Okay, so you're like a stand in.

[C]

This was okay, all of them. You had a vacancy for the chief and somebody had stepped in. You hadn't had a chance to give a lot of thought to who you would got it, be interim. And so.

[A]

So it wasn't like Katie had done.

[C]

Took a few days to think about it.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Probably got some advice and landed on Billy Peters.

[A]

That makes sense. Because I couldn't understand the difference. And I was wondering if acting was just how you described an interim, was something a little more permanent, even though it's not permanent. And I just didn't think Katie had done something wrong within four days to all of a sudden get removed as acting chief. So that kind of explains it. You know,

[C]

with my luck, I always said I was the. I was the. I was the acting chief of sensitive racial matters. Every time you go to town, something bad would happen that, you know, I'm holding the camera for some reasons.

[B]

I have one more thing before we go. Not serious in matter, but I hope it'll make you happy. While you were the chief of the U of M, I was a victim of. Okay, I wasn't the victim. That's the wrong way of putting it. I was doing 47 miles per hour on University Avenue, which was a 30 mile an hour zone. One of your officers pointed at me as I'm blasting down University, pulled me over, and that's the fastest police stop I've ever been involved with. I had a speeding ticket in under one minute. He walked up to my window. He said, give me your license. You were going 47. Less than a minute later, he returned to my truck, handed me that ticket. That's the last time that I sped on University Avenue. I learned my lesson that day. It was right in front of the post office

[C]

compared to my days of rating tickets with carbon copies and whatnot. They swipe your license plate, your license, print it out. They don't write out the tag. And it's.

[B]

I didn't. I didn't even have time to go. But wait, wait. Wait a minute. No. I had the ticket in my hand and I was on my way before I knew what hit me.

[A]

That's what I wanted to ask you. What lie were you about to tell?

[B]

Oh, I have a whole list. You know, I'm pregnant or she's pregnant or I'm bleeding. You know, I had all the usual excuses.

[C]

Here's one for you, Jay. I had an officer rating tags, you know, a little bit done. Stanley Hubbard calls the president, complains about it.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. You broke up a little bit. You had an officer doing what? Now

[C]

he's writing. He's doing radar down University Avenue.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Stanley Hubbard called the president and complained about that.

[B]

Okay. That's why he is the best boss in the whole world. He has always got our backs. He's always got our backs.

[A]

When you say called the president, what do you mean? He called the president?

[B]

The president of the University of Minnesota.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, yeah, that would be.

[B]

Yeah, he goes right to the top. He doesn't hang out with this small friends.

[C]

He does a lot for the university.

[B]

Sure he does.

[A]

Yeah, there's a. There's a journalism school over there. Yeah, yeah. Named Hubbard Hubbard School of Journalism. That's a funny story. So Mr. Hubbard is a great boss because of course he didn't help you out fast enough, did he, Kenny?

[B]

You know, I should have told the officer I'm one of the. Of Mr. Hubbard's children. He'll call the children, but you know what I mean.

[A]

He'll call the big dog on you. That's awesome. Well, thanks, Greg. That was pretty good. Good story. Appreciate it.

[C]

Okay, gentlemen. Well, thanks for the time and.

[A]

Well, thank you.

[C]

Okay. Shop. Is that your.

[A]

Oh, yeah. News from the Crabby. I'm sorry I never told you the name of News from the Crabby Coffee Shop. Kenny's been doing it for a while. Yeah. So I'll send you the link so you can never miss us now. What's that?

[C]

I told Jay that I have a couple friends with podcast. The one you might be interested in locally is better. Minneapolis guy named Terry White does it. Done all the interviews, all the politicians and just civic issues. Oh, really? One today about the dysfunction in the council again.

[A]

Well, we've done that story. Kenny and I have actually done that story, too. Yeah, we've done that story.

[B]

They're a wonder source of material.

[A]

I was going to say they. With the city council, Greg. We always have programming.

[C]

All right, Greg.

[B]

Thank you, Greg.

[A]

Thanks so much. Appreciate it. As always,

[C]

like talking. Good to meet you, Kenny. Have a good day, sir.

[B]

All right, thank you.

[A]

Take care, Greg.

[B]

All right, Jay, we're going to come back here and I want to I think we broke some news there, and I want to come back and talk about that. But first, asking the listeners, at least the boating listeners, are you satisfied with that current boat or pontoon? Look me in the eye. Tell me you're satisfied. If not, you can find your new boat right@warner's dock.com. they're over in Wisconsin. And you've got your pick of brands. Alumacraft boats, Premier pontoons, skeeter boats. Nine brands in all and maybe more. Everybody knows I'm bad at counting, so I could be wrong. I do know, though, if you want to upgrade your current fishing boat or pontoon, Warner stock will take your trade. They're even purchasing used boats and pontoons up to 15 years old. And they had nine brands of boats and pontoons, plus, oh, docks, lifts. They all. They are called Warner stock, after all. From sales to service storage, they. That's the place to go for all your boating needs. Outboard repairs, electronic equipment, trailer service. They are committed to keeping you on the water and happy. They're right there in New Richmond, Wisconsin. Warner stock and on the Web, warnerstock.com. all right, Jay, how many store. How. How many. How much news did we just break today?

[A]

Well, we broke the fact that the driver. The driver of o' Hare is relieved of duty.

[B]

The mayor, I think that was. That was. Well, that was already known.

[A]

Some of the. I don't know if anybody reported relieved of duty. Most were saying leave like he was, which is accurate. But getting more specific was really important on that one because it indicates extreme. An extreme complaint. And then we. The mayor's driver with six. Six open complaints.

[B]

Have you had a chance to ask the mayor about that? How's your relationship with him?

[A]

Oh, I have a good relationship with Mayor Fry. And he would probably, you know, defend it and say, hey, you know, none of them have been satisfied. You know, none of them have been finish. The point that everybody was making to me that are current officers and former officers, Kenny was generally speaking, you're not gonna get a plum assignment like that if you have an open IA it was more directed at Oharas decision to allow that to happen than Mayor Frye, quite honestly.

[B]

Gotcha.

[A]

And so that's what I was trying to get Greg to speak to is you wouldn't get that. And he finally admitted it. You wouldn't get that kind of a plum. Even though it's not technically a promotion, it's a plum assignment. And as it was put to me by more than one officer, if you're the driver of the mayor driver of the chief. If you're up for the next promotion, you're gon. So you want. It's a gig you'd want to get, so. And then what else was. Oh, the other one was the head of IA. The head of IA's got your.

[B]

Say this for me one more time, because this really doesn't make sense.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

The head of Internal affairs has two open Internal affairs investigations? Yes. Why doesn't she just find herself innocent?

[A]

Well, here's what I found out about that. I should have added this and asked Greg about this. I can't believe I forgot to ask him. So what's important about that, Kenny, according to my sources, is she had those before she was promoted to commander of Internal Affairs. So how. As it's always worked at mpd, you're not supposed to get a promotion if you've got. You gotta wait your turn. You gotta wait till those complaints are done. So o' Hara went around that and appointed her head of ia, while she's got two complaints. So I said to a couple of sources, how do you investigate yourself? What happens? Well, come to find out if that does happen, if you're the head of IAEA and let's say there's a complaint against you after you become. Then it's the chief. The chief picks who are the investigators. So if o' Hara appointed her or promoted her to commander, now he picks who investigates her. Well, you know, come on. They're not going to pick somebody that's going to find her. Find it substantiated. You saw Greg shaking his head when he said, well, it's unusual. Greg kind of held back a little bit. He said more on the phone last night, but he said, well, it's kind of unusual. Well, no unusual. No, Greg, it's bad.

[B]

How many police officers, current and retired, have you talked to off the record?

[A]

Since Thursday?

[B]

Since last Thursday?

[A]

Yeah, since. So it aired Wednesday was Thursday. Started getting the calls and the texts. I would say I think it's seven, including Greg, because I did talk to Greg, obviously, on the record.

[B]

How many contacted you?

[A]

So let me. All of them.

[B]

All of them got a hold of you?

[A]

All of them contacted me. So I'm gonna. I'll do it real quick. I'm not gonna. Just give me a second.

[B]

No names.

[A]

No names. I'm just gonna go.

[B]

You ran on the fingers.

[A]

Oh, okay. Seven. And then Greg. So eight. Eight. Current and former.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And all said the same thing about this situation with the head of Internal affairs.

[B]

And they had really? You asked some of them to come on with us?

[A]

Yes, I did. And for various reasons, those who are retired couldn't, because I can't say where they are now. But because of where they are now, they couldn't. And of course those who are working at mpd, they can't. If they on, they'll get disciplined.

[B]

I'm worried that you have broken our motto. What's our motto?

[A]

Minimal effort, maximum glory.

[B]

You worked your ass off yesterday.

[A]

Yeah, since Thursday, Friday and yesterday and today more than usual, and even the week of o'. Hara. But that then plays into the next weeks when we don't have as big a news breaking. Then we do a little more memg, a little more minimal effort, maximum glory. And I couldn't ignore those calls, Kenny. Like I said, they called me. And then of course I did follow up calls because they were feeding me really good information. Oh, another thing I wanted to tell you. I forgot about this, Kenny. So one of them. Okay, so the name. Get a load of this. This is a good way to end. So the name of the group, the company, the organization that is overseeing the consent decree. You know, the Minnesota Department of Human Rights has a consent decree with Minneapolis. And Minneapolis PD has to conform to this consent decree, which is simply a judge has said, okay, this is. How do I explain it? They come up with an agreement on how they're gonna reform the department between the Minnesota Department of Human Rights and npd. They said, here are the things we need to improve. We agree on this. The judge looks at it. Judge says, okay, I like it. That's the consent decree. It's a judge's court order that MPD has to do these things to be compliant with the Minnesota Department of Human Rights. So it's a big deal. There's a group called alifa, and that's an acronym for something, Kenny. But anyhow, ALEFA is now the go between with Human Rights in Minneapolis to get this thing done. Right.

[B]

ALEFA is effective law enforcement for all.

[A]

There you go. I gotta start getting a computer at my fingertips like you. So they're the group that's overseeing this. All right? So just keep that in mind. So ALIFA sends out two. I gotta call this up. So bear with me. I'm sorry. So ALIFA sends out to its members, the members of mpd, including higher ups, they send out a survey. It's called MPD Officer Experience and Wellness Survey. And it's supposed to be anonymous, okay?

[B]

Yeah, no, it's not. They all was never anonymous.

[A]

It's supposed to be anonymous. And so. And now this is supposed to be just with mpd. Like nobody else is supposed to get their fingers on this. It's supposed to be secure, right? Because if it's gonna be anonymous, Kenny, it's gotta be secure. Guess who's got a copy of it?

[B]

J. Cole?

[A]

I do. I got it sent to me.

[B]

And they go, how many people sent it to you? Like 20 people.

[A]

No, it was just one officer. And this officer goes, so, oh, is it really anonymous? Cause if it's this secure that I can get it and send it to Jay Coles. And. And the questions are strange in that the reason they're strange like, okay, here's question one. My fellow officers treat me with respect. Strongly agree, disagree. Da da, da da. My supervisors treat me the same. It goes on and on. And then there's one in here that talks about, is there racism in the department? Well, strongly agree, disagree. Well, what does that mean? Like racist? Against.

[B]

Define it.

[A]

Define it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. But the reason the officer sent it to me was to say, oh, this. They want me to believe this is anonymous and that I'm going to be protected if I answer this honestly and I can get my hands on it and send it to a reporter like you. And now I'm sitting here with it on my phone.

[B]

I want to read a definition of this so we clear everything up about this. The Minnesota Department of Human Rights legally enforces a sweeping court approved settlement agreement targeting race based policing and systematic reform within the Minneapolis police department. Just MPD. While the separate federal US DOJ decree was dismissed by a judge in 2025, the state settlement remains fully active and legally binding. The background. It was signed in March 2023 following a state investigation. This court enforceable agreement requires the city and MPD to adopt broad transformational changes.

[A]

Correct. And I've covered a lot of that. It's a big deal. And usually it's a federal consent decree, but because there was a state one and a federal one, the judge said, well, we can't have them overlap. So they got rid of the federal one and they just went with the state one. And that group is a LEAFA that's in charge. And they sent out this survey that's supposedly secure and Kenny and Jay have a copy of it.

[B]

No, no, no, no. Kenny's innocent.

[A]

Well, we can't get any trouble.

[B]

Jay has the coffee. Kenny doesn't have it. Kenny doesn't want it. You're not allowed to send it to

[A]

the Krabby Coffee Shop has got it. How about that. I thought that was funny. And I wanted to add that at the end of the show because it wasn't really Jermaine o' Hara or anything. It was an officer saying to me, you want to know how screwed up things are? We can't even get this right. We can't even keep this secure and anonymous. If I can send it to you.

[B]

Let's send out props before we go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just want to say hi to all the men and women of the Minneapolis Police Department that are now listening to the crap.

[A]

Yeah, right. I think we got a few now.

[B]

Hi, guys. It's fun having you aboard. Good luck.

[A]

We appreciate your.

[B]

Head down.

[A]

We appreciate you.

[B]

Yeah, I think we're done here.

[A]

Yes, we are. That was fun.

[B]

All right. Thank you. Thank you, Gabe. Thank you, Jay. And thank you for listening to.

[A]

Hey, Kenny.

[C]

Yeah?

[A]

Where can they find the Krabby Coffee Shop?

[B]

YouTube.

[A]

People are asking me all the time how.

[B]

Garagelogix.com? youTube.

[A]

There we go. Garage.

[B]

Google it.

[A]

Instagram X, Instagram x, Google Online. What about if. What if somebody wants to just listen to the podcast? Where do they go to listen to? Just the podcast, not the video.

[C]

Spotify, Apple, podcasts, Amazon.

[B]

Like follow, smash some button.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

We need our job.

[B]

So help us do something.

[A]

Thanks. Bye. Yeah, I guess.