Progressive Insurance Announcer (14:02)

this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

Tom Papa (14:23)

I'd also like to hear from you if you ever have a loved one at the Wellshire of Bloomington and Medina, a Memory Care Center. I would like to hear from you if you have used the services of the extraordinary Wellshire, this memory care center that is really revolutionary in this world. They figured out something that wasn't being done everywhere else. They broke up their facility into four households, concentrating on the four stages of memory care and in so doing created a state of the art memory care center that is recognized and admired around the country in the spring, fall and summer. Gardens, beautiful patios in the wintertime, a town square environment with ice cream shops and barber shops and salons and libraries and cinema. It's extraordinary, but have you found it to be? Again, my number 651321, 8949 I'd like to know about your experiences at the Wellshire Memory Care center of Medina and Bloomington. Well, let's stay with the news. Under the headline Just Another Night in Cleveland, Ohio, a man was arrested after he told an officer responding to his call that he could beat him up easily. I repeat, a man was arrested after he told an officer in Cleveland, Ohio, an officer who was responding to the man's call that the man could beat up the officer easily. Last Thursday, police responded to a call from someone who would not give their name but was requesting a welfare check in a unit in an apartment building in Cleveland, Ohio. An officer knocked on the Door of the apartment that was mentioned in the call. Now, inside that apartment was a dog barking, but no one answered that door. After getting no answer, the officer turned around and found a man standing there right behind him. The man said he had called police because he said it was unusual for a dog to be barking in that unit and he was concerned about the female resident living there. The officer explained to the man that there was nothing else that could be done. The man asked if he could kick in the door, and he was told, no, you cannot do that. The officer said, it's not even known if the woman is in the unit. You can't just kick in her door. She could be gone somewhere. That's just her dog barking. We cannot enter her apartment legally. The man insisted on kicking down the door. The officer said, you will go to jail if you do that. At this point, the man asked the officer what exactly the officer wasn't understanding, and he asked if he needed to slap the crap out of him. I'm not kidding. He asked the officer, at this point, do I need to slap the crap out of you? This is a real news story, folks. The man went on to tell the officer that he could easily beat him up. Then he took up a fighting stance. The officer then asked him if he truly wanted to go down this road, and the man responded with this phrase, let's do it. This is all in the report. The officer then called for assistance. Additional police officers arrived, and the man was handcuffed and arrested. What's he thinking on the way down to the police station? What's he thinking that night behind bars? Were I his cellmate that night, I might ask the fella, how would you judge your evening overall tonight? Looking at your evening overall, how would you rate it? No, that's a good question. Let's see, I'd say it got away from me a little bit. I thought I had a pretty good thing going there, But I clearly missed something somewhere. It didn't work out quite as I expected. Yeah, well, let's go through the sequence of events. You heard a dog barking in an apartment and you wanted police to check on the person who rented that apartment, correct? Yeah, that's correct. Okay, good. And the police came and they knocked and no one answered. And they informed you that legally they can't break the door down, right? Yes, yes, that's exactly what happened. And then you asked the cop if he needed you to slap the crap out of him. Yes, yes, that's true. And he then asked you if you really wanted to Go down this road. And you said to him, let's do it. And you were then arrested and you're now in a cell.

Jason (Listener) (19:45)

Yeah.

Tom Papa (19:45)

Yeah, you got it. That's. That's. That's how it went. And actually, as you say it, and I think about it now, I realize I may have got a little sloppy in my thinking. I'm trying to figure out right now, step by step, where I went wrong, because I had the whole evening working out differently as far as how I expected it to go. You know, clearly, I missed something. Right. Right. What did you picture as you followed the steps in your mind? How did you think it would go? Well, that's a good question. I guess I pictured the cop telling me that, yes, I did indeed need to slap the crap out of him, and that I then proceeded to do just that. At which point he reevaluated the law on breaking and entering, and we bashed down the woman's door together. And he thanked me for my persistence. Aha. That's how you thought it was going to go. Okay, I just want to ask one last question. Has anything worked out for you over the years ever? I mean, has anything ever worked out for you in any way at all in this life? That's an excellent question. No, no. Interestingly, nothing has ever worked out at all. Nothing ever? No, no, not at all. I'm always missing some key concept, some important piece of the puzzle. I think I'm considering all the possibilities, but I'm, in fact, always a little off. Like the time I threw a small chunk of granite at the President of the United States. He was visiting our city. I figured if I hit him, I could disappear into the chaos that ensued. And if I missed, I could just say I was throwing a rock the way people throw rocks in ponds or the way kids throw rocks at stop signs. Well, I missed the president by a few inches, and four Secret Service guys jumped me. Mm. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I can see where you missed something there. Yeah, yeah, I did. I did a stretch in a federal pen for that. Then there was the time I heard you could bring a note to a bank and with a note, you could rob it. That all you needed to do was give a note to the teller and you could get the cash. So I gave this teller a note that spelled out my address, and I told her I'd be waiting for the cash to be delivered later that afternoon, and she better not be late with it. More time in a cell, no doubt. Oh, yeah, I did a serious stint there. Yeah, my psychiatrist says I'm not a details guy. I'm more of a big concept person. Mm. Well, I think it's time to go to the listener list and see who we can call.

Garage Floor Geeks Announcer (22:48)

Foreign.

Voicemail System (23:11)

Welcome to the voicemail.

Kyle (Listener) (23:13)

612-679-1560 is not available.

Voicemail System (23:20)

Please leave your message after the tone.

Tom Papa (23:23)

You guys are kind of tag teaming it there. Male, female, I like that. Is that new? Is it to sort of get that gender balance people have been asking for? It's very interesting to hear the back and forth there. Who decided to take which part? How did you figure that out? I enjoyed it. I like it. I think we need to do more of that across the board. It's like Islands in the Stream with Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton. Or how about Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warrens love Lift us up where we belong. I'm into this male female thing. And with the outgoing message, it's particularly effective.

Voicemail System (24:10)

To listen to your message, press 1. To rerecord your message, press 2. To continue recording your message, press 3. Accept the recording and send as normal. Press 4. Accept the recording and send as urgent. Press 6. Accept the recording and send as private, press 7.

Tom Papa (24:27)

Hey, where'd the fella go?

Voicemail System (24:29)

To listen to your message, press 1.

Tom Papa (24:31)

That lost a little something with the fella.

Voicemail System (24:34)

Not sent to your message, press one.

Tom Papa (24:35)

Hey, I'm talking to you. Could you. Could I say something here? Oh, I see. This is the way we're gonna play it, guys. Away. You feel you can just take over? Listen here, little missy. I want respect. Hey, hey. I get to have my time here, okay?

Voicemail System (24:53)

Goodbye. Thank you for calling. Message sent.

Tom Papa (24:56)

Well, how rude can one person get? Dear Lord, what has happened to our society? I bet the fellow wouldn't have stood for that. Where was he? In the restroom. You just decided you could take over, huh? Well, when he comes back, you're gonna get a little what for, I'll tell you that.

Voicemail System (25:17)

Please speak up. Goodbye.

Tom Papa (25:26)

Well, looking at the old calendar, I can see it's still free brewery. I'm gonna tire of saying free brewery. Of course I am. But just about that time, it'll be March and I can move on right now. Minneapolis St. Paul plumbing, heating and Air. Want you to know it's free brewery. Free brewery means it's the month where you can win a free furnace. How do you win a free furnace and free brewery? You do so by simply getting a $49 furnace. Tune up the thing you should have gotten two months ago, you moron, nitwit, lunkhead, dunderpate. I like calling you names and stuff. I like calling you names and stuff. Stop it. Just stop it. Free Brewery is when you can get a $49 tune up. And by doing so, enter to win a free furnace. No small thing to win Camper Dan. MSP stands for Minneapolis St. Paul Plumbing, Heating and Air. They've been around since 19. No, not 1950. No, no, no. 19. No, not 1929. No, 1918. What? MSP.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (26:44)

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with a name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Pricing coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

Tom Papa (27:06)

As I've been doing ads on this particular program, I've been mentioning wanting to hear from you people. I'd like to hear someone who uses the services of American Pressure, American Pressure of Robbinsdale. The maestros of the pressure washing world. Not just in repair, which they do in their shop in Robbinsdale. Not just in repair, which they do by coming out to you with service vehicles. Not just in parts of which they stock thousands using them here, sending them out around the country, but also in sales, selling the state of the art in pressure washing equipment. Nobody knows this business better because no one's been around as long. They have been around as long as the pressure washer has. The number of times that they're called out to some company where they have a pressure washing set up and American Pressure says this is sort of good, but you guys could be making it so much easier on yourselves by setting it up this way, by using this equipment, by going with this arrangement. We can not only help you with that, we can train you how to use it. Everything could be more efficient here. Your lives would be easier. You'd make more money. It'd be win win across the board. And to do that, all you have to do people is call American Pressure in Robbinsdale. They answer the phone like regular people because they are regular people. They're like you and I, except they know more about this particular industry than anyone. Well, let's spin the big wheel and talk to a listener. Where's the big wheel? There it is. Jason.

Jason (Listener) (29:21)

Tommy.

Tom Papa (29:22)

Jason.

Jason (Listener) (29:24)

Holy moly.

Tom Papa (29:25)

What are the odds of you answering the phone?

Jason (Listener) (29:30)

Pretty good now, right? One out of 10 times.

Tom Papa (29:33)

I think it's been 500 times that I've called you. I actually think you were on the list last March.

Kyle (Listener) (29:41)

Probably.

Jason (Listener) (29:43)

Probably.

Tom Papa (29:44)

Why are you answering today? What happened? Did you have some sort of a religious conversion? Did something happen in your life to change you profoundly?

Jason (Listener) (29:54)

You know what it is with a couple school aged kids volunteering at school writing for a newspaper. It's been busy around here.

Tom Papa (30:02)

Well, I'm going to forgive you right away now that you've said you write for a newspaper. I give special dispensation to anyone who still in this day and age writes for a dear newspaper. Our dying, dying glory in this country. The disappearing newspaper. By God, I grew up in a newspaper family, I wrote for newspapers and I watched them slowly die while we're still alive. Which one?

Jason (Listener) (30:32)

Sun Newspapers, Sun, Current, Sun, Taylor, Bloomington, St. Louis Park, Richfield.

Tom Papa (30:37)

They've made a few overtures to my family's newspaper. They've tried to buy it. Oh but of course, you know how it goes. That old son wants to come along and get it for 27 cents and turn it into a little shopper. A little shopper?

Jason (Listener) (30:53)

That's pretty accurate. I'm a sports reporter so I'm actually right now I'm watching the US Canada gold medal game on the TV and trying to catch up on some writing.

Tom Papa (31:04)

Were you somebody as a kid who wanted to write for newspapers?

Jason (Listener) (31:08)

Yeah, yeah I was. Actually I delivered the Sun Currents on, not on my bicycle but run along the houses and deliver the paper. And my godfather wrote for the St. Philpiner Press, covered the north stars from the 70s until they left in the early 90s.

Tom Papa (31:24)

You know when I was a little kid speaking of the North Stars, I'd get on a city bus by myself, a bad pair of jean cut off shorts, black socks and Keds tennis shoes and I'd head out to the Met by myself with my glove to watch a Twins game. And fortunately it was dork city out there back then. This would have been the early 70s if there weren't kids like me sitting around. There were 57 year old men with the same shorts, black socks and stupid leather mittens waiting for a foul ball, watching a team that was never any good. And then every now and then some wealthy pals of mine would get tickets to a North Stars game from their parents and we'd be given a ride out to the North Stars game in the parents Mark four. Yeah. All my friends who were the offspring of wealthy parents, their parents drove around in something called a Mark 4. I just remember thinking that's when I'll know I'll have made it when I can get one of these Mark fours and. And we'd go out to a North Stars game. And I'd walk in and there were guys in suits. Where were the dorks? There were women beautifully dressed with their men watching the game. It wasn't like today. People didn't wear the colors or jerseys. Men were dressed like this was a big night out. And the women were dressed like they thought they were going dancing. And the feeling was radically different. And I never understood because a hockey player was just a goony, toothless thug. That's a little harsh, but. And yet it was like I was at the opera or something. I never understood what was going on at the Met in Bloomington. For the North Stars. Not the Met, for the Twins. The Metropolitan Sports Center.

Jason (Listener) (33:16)

Met Center. Yeah, Met Center.

Kyle (Listener) (33:18)

Met Center.

Tom Papa (33:19)

They would have something called the Blue Line Club. My buddies and I would sneak up into the Blue Line Club. Now that was for the real fancy folks. That was for the fanciest of the fanciest. And I thought, well, I thought I'd go up there and see some sort of Roman orgy. I'm not kidding. I didn't know where the elites went privately. I already saw what they looked like in the public area. I just thought there was some strange little world they went to where all the rules were loosened. But the Blue Line Club would be up these stairs and we all would want to get up there and just see what the hell these guys do. That was back when I had all these ideas of adulthood being ushered into some strange, magical world where everything would be bizarre and different because so many years they said, you know, you can't get into this bar till you're that age. Can't watch this movie until you're this age. And there was always a sense that something was waiting that was going to be really powerful, something I wasn't allowed to see. And as a 14 year old, did

Jason (Listener) (34:20)

you get into that Blue Line Club?

Tom Papa (34:21)

I did. And I didn't see Caligula. I saw a couple of drunk guys talking to Halsey Hall. By the way, do you ever remember when the Met Stadium, the Twins stadium, when they had pantyhose day?

Jason (Listener) (34:41)

No. I was. I was born in 81.

Tom Papa (34:44)

I used to wish the 70s never happened. I was embarrassed about the 70s and I had no interest in revisiting the 70s or talking about it. I found it an embarrassing stretch of time. The older I get, the better it looks on every level. Not haircuts, not clothes, necessarily. In freedom, in weirdness, in. In music, in culture, in a carefree quality. We were released from the 60s and all the hell of 68, the hell of Vietnam. And we weren't yet into those crass, cynical 80s. We were riding this wave for a while. There's sort of a devil may care attitude. Whatever rules there were from the 50s were long gone now. And whatever new horrors were coming, AIDS and everything else was still in the offing. So the older I get, the more I like to look back. And that's when I spent a lot of time at Northstar's games and Twins games and every now and then, Vikings games. The only way I was allowed into Vikings games, I had to become a Sims Security guy.

Jason (Listener) (35:57)

Then you had to work for it.

Tom Papa (35:59)

It was a scam. And I've always wanted to track this guy down. But a buddy of mine contacted me and said, Sims Security has asked me to get some guys. And I said, well, do we get paid? No, but you get to watch the game free. And of course, for me, just seeing the Vikings was good enough. So I said, okay. Well, he got a bunch of us to do it. And we'd have these long raincoats on with SIM security on the back. And then we had, like, a policeman's hat. This was in my teens. And we were guiding people to their seats and lining the field after a game to keep people from charging the field and stuff like that. I learned later. This guy took all our money. They paid him with the idea that he'd get it to all of us. And he said to us, oh, it's just a deal where you get to see the game free. He owes me a ton of money. He still lives in St. Paul. The only reason I haven't really gone after him hard is I feel a little bad for him. He went bald at 26, and I've always felt bad about that. I mean, 46, fine. But it was a little early, and once I saw that, I said, well, God got even. So what else is new?

Kyle (Listener) (37:16)

Not much.

Tom Papa (37:17)

How old are your kids?

Jason (Listener) (37:19)

I've got an 8th grader daughter who plays, plays hockey and soccer and is in the Boy Scouts and is in.

Tom Papa (37:26)

Now, wait a minute. They call it the Boy Scouts?

Jason (Listener) (37:30)

Well, they call it Scouting now.

Tom Papa (37:32)

Okay, good. I mean, what a ridiculous thing. Want to be in the Boy Scouts? We're not going to change the name. We're going to make you feel as uncomfortable as we possibly can. Okay, so they don't call it the Boy Scouts?

Jason (Listener) (37:43)

Nope. They call it Scouting. And it's a bunch of her friends and friends from Girl Scouts from elementary school that stay together. They're part of a troop and it's an all girls troop and they do camping and, you know, all the good stuff.

Tom Papa (37:55)

Does she love it?

Jason (Listener) (37:56)

Absolutely loves it.

Tom Papa (37:57)

How old is she?

Jason (Listener) (37:59)

Just turned 14 now.

Tom Papa (38:01)

I've heard stories. Never had a daughter myself, but I've heard stories. And you can verify them or not. I've heard stories that when girls get into junior high, well, it can get a little rough in a way that it doesn't necessarily get rough for the fellas. I'm not sure what it is, but things can get clicky and things can get snippy and sometimes things can get kind of cruel.

Jason (Listener) (38:28)

Oh, yeah.

Voicemail System (38:28)

Little.

Jason (Listener) (38:29)

Real, real life, you know, tough love kind of thing.

Tom Papa (38:31)

You're calling it tough love? That's what it's called now. What happens in junior high? Social media. Bullying. Tough love.

Jason (Listener) (38:41)

Not tough love, more bullying. There's always new friends coming in and other friends leaving.

Tom Papa (38:46)

And the other friends aren't just leaving, they're getting kicked out, aren't they?

Jason (Listener) (38:50)

I don't think so.

Tom Papa (38:52)

You haven't witnessed a lot of this, her coming home in tears or learning.

Jason (Listener) (38:55)

Not really.

Tom Papa (38:56)

Okay, maybe most of the time it's

Jason (Listener) (38:58)

after school from choir practice or she's

Tom Papa (39:02)

also in choir practice. You know what I wanted when I was in school back then?

Jason (Listener) (39:07)

What's that?

Tom Papa (39:10)

Freedom. To quote Mel Gibson from Braveheart, I wanted freedom. Freedom. I didn't want an adult telling me what to do. The idea that after school, after you have been there for hours with an adult telling you what to do, that you would then join something where another adult would tell you what to do. My God, why not just take me to North Korea and hand me to them? They could put me in a basement and just spend hours torturing me. I just can't believe how many kids like that.

Jason (Listener) (39:47)

Yeah, the times have certainly changed.

Tom Papa (39:50)

But back to you and your children. So what do you have besides the daughter who's the overachiever?

Kyle (Listener) (39:55)

Third grader.

Jason (Listener) (39:56)

Son.

Tom Papa (39:57)

Third grade. I'd pay money for that kid. I'd buy him from you just for a couple years. Because that age is heaven.

Jason (Listener) (40:03)

He's a great kid.

Tom Papa (40:04)

He doesn't even know that third grade is heaven. You cannot know heaven without knowing hell. You have to see the other side. And then of course, it'll be too late when he sees that. And third grade will be gone. Long gone. Long gone. I wish there was a way we could pull him into the future, have him just be an adult somewhere and get him racing back to third grade. So when you first contacted the show, was there any. Anything at all you wanted to ask me.

Jason (Listener) (40:30)

Where do you get your inspiration for writing? I guess, where do you look to when you don't have an idea of something to write about? What do you do?

Tom Papa (40:37)

I've never struggled with inspiration. There was an old man in my neighborhood when I was growing up. He used to build grandfather clocks. He used to sit in his garage working on them. And I'd go visit him and he'd say, there's so much to learn, see and do, so much to experience in this world. How on earth, with the short amount of time we're given, how on earth can anyone ever be bored or be lost and unable to think of something to occupy their attention or their imagination? Or ever sit around wondering what they should do with their time? I often think of the world that way. Now, when it comes to things like ideas, there's too much to talk about. There's too much. There's more than we'll ever be able to get to. Too many books to read, too many people to meet, too many subjects to explore, too many countries to visit. It's too much. Life is too much.

Jason (Listener) (41:36)

Yeah. How do you narrow that dot though?

Tom Papa (41:38)

Accept that you won't get to it all and grab what you can.

Jason (Listener) (41:42)

That's true, yeah. I mean, I try to explain that to my kids when they're saying that they're bored. And I said, can't be bored, can't be bored. It's too much to do.

Tom Papa (41:51)

I mean, if you walk into an orchard, do you say, well, how do you know what to grab an apple, a pear, an orange? You just start grabbing. Do they report to you they're bored?

Jason (Listener) (42:01)

Oh yeah.

Tom Papa (42:03)

I don't want to make this sound like it's a real recommendation, but you might just say, go out and break some garage windows. That's what I used to do. We did a lot of things that were intended to get us chased by the St. Paul Police Department.

Jason (Listener) (42:18)

Did they chase you?

Tom Papa (42:19)

Oh yeah, and they sometimes caught me. I was arrested the first time in sixth grade. But I always thought, you know, these guys are getting paid to do something. It's not like they're chasing us and not getting money for it. And we're not dangerous criminals. I gotta figure this is, this is what they're paid to do. It's like going to a barber and getting your hair cut. And we knew em all, we knew all the cops and they knew us and it was great. What's your wife do?

Jason (Listener) (42:44)

She's a physical therapist.

Tom Papa (42:46)

Of course she is. I bet she's A reader, too?

Jason (Listener) (42:50)

Oh, big time.

Tom Papa (42:51)

I knew it.

Jason (Listener) (42:52)

Way more than me.

Tom Papa (42:53)

Yep, I could tell. I knew it. Tell her to read the book. Agent Zoe, British woman, wrote it, and it's about one of the more extraordinary women I have ever encountered in my entire life.

Jason (Listener) (43:05)

Who is the. Who's the author?

Tom Papa (43:06)

Claire Mulley. Her name is Claire Mulley. She's a historian, biographer, broadcaster, great writer, and she discovered the life of this woman who lived to 100 in Poland. Just won't find many like her. By the way, Agent Zo never got bored. Well, what do you do for hobbies?

Jason (Listener) (43:27)

Photography? Running, biking, camping, I guess.

Tom Papa (43:32)

Sounds like one of those match.com sites. Those are exactly what would be there. I like running, biking, camping, walks in the park. No one ever has anything weird in those. I know, because if you put something weird, you won't get a match. But people are weird. Why don't we put our weirdnesses in those things? You should say something. Everybody should say something weird about themselves. Always to make you seem human. You have a weird thing you do. Go ahead and say it.

Jason (Listener) (43:58)

Who knows?

Tom Papa (43:59)

Nobody knows who you are. You're just a first name on this show. Nobody knows you.

Jason (Listener) (44:03)

I don't know. How about can't take a right. Right turn at a stoplight. Got to take a left turn?

Tom Papa (44:11)

I don't know. What

Jason (Listener) (44:15)

is that bizarre enough?

Tom Papa (44:16)

I don't know. Well, of course it is. Wait a minute. Stop the presses. You can't take a right turn at a stoplight.

Jason (Listener) (44:22)

Yeah, if I'm by myself in the car. Can't take a right turn. Gotta take a left turn.

Tom Papa (44:27)

By golly, thank you for that candor. That's beautiful. That's better than anything I could have thought of. And the fact that it's real, that's tremendous. You just made my day. I like you so much better now. You seem like a real person to me. All of a sudden. I like myself better. Wow. This has been a magical moment. I don't want to even analyze that because I fear if I ask a lot of questions, all of a sudden it'll be understandable. I don't want it to be understandable. I want to just leave it there. Does your wife like that quality about you?

Jason (Listener) (45:03)

No, but she's. She's never in the car when I have to.

Tom Papa (45:06)

Oh, that's right. It's when you're alone. It's when you're alone. Yeah.

Jason (Listener) (45:08)

Yeah.

Tom Papa (45:08)

Oh. Some of the best weirdnesses are when we're alone. Man, oh, man. Well, we're not gonna top this moment. We're not gonna beat this moment. This is where the call has to end. It's not gonna get better. Thank you for talking to me.

Kyle (Listener) (45:25)

Thanks a lot.

Tom Papa (45:26)

All right, so long. Talk.

Jason (Listener) (45:27)

Twitter.

Kyle (Listener) (45:29)

Foreign.

Tom Papa (45:34)

You. You who thinks you know everything about your money. Where to invest it, how to invest it, what to do with your IRA, your 401k. You who think you're pretty cool. Well, you ought to spend 50 minutes on the phone with Josh Arnold free of charge, to find out all that you don't know. Because you don't know what you don't know. And you don't know what you could be doing for yourself. And you don't know how your money could be working harder for you, how you could be growing that savings, setting yourself up beautifully for retirement. Josh Arnold has helped thousands over the years. He's been at this over four decades, and no one's better. But you won't know that till you call him. Free of charge. 50 minutes. 952-925-5608.

Garage Floor Geeks Announcer (46:31)

Investment services offered by Josh Arnold Investment Consultant, LLC. A security and investment advisor. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All investments involve risk. Tommy Miske is a paid endorser.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (46:42)

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Pricing coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.

Sleep Number Announcer (47:03)

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Tom Papa (47:40)

Let's spin the big wheel again, shall we? We're gonna call. Wonderful Kyle. He's the one, the only one that we adore. That's right. When the mamoon shines over the cacao shed, he'll be sitting by the ki ki ki kitchen door. Chuck.

Kyle (Listener) (48:28)

Mishky.

Tom Papa (48:30)

Kyle.

Kyle (Listener) (48:32)

Finally connected.

Tom Papa (48:33)

How long you been on the old listener list?

Kyle (Listener) (48:36)

Probably since pretty close to your first episode.

Tom Papa (48:39)

That's how long you've been on There. That is a hell of a wait. You are a patient man.

Kyle (Listener) (48:45)

You know, it's been an ordeal. I mean, I don't know how I did it. A lot of prayer.

Tom Papa (48:50)

Wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm the patient one. I'm the one who has made call after call, after call, after call, after call, after call, after call, after call, after call, after call, after call, after call after call. I'm the patient one. I never gave up.

Kyle (Listener) (49:09)

I didn't pick up the other ones because I didn't know that. Didn't recognize the number.

Tom Papa (49:15)

Exactly. But is that on me? Or is it your lack of curiosity? Remember the days when the phone rang and nobody knew who it was? All my life, from birth until adulthood, I never knew who was calling. And you answered the phone because it's a surprise. It's a magical moment. Wonder who this is. But you don't answer your phone because it might be someone you don't want to talk to.

Kyle (Listener) (49:41)

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I suppose.

Tom Papa (49:44)

Let's have a little test run here. Imagine you've called me and I'm hearing the phone ring, and you're the kind of person I don't want to talk to. The kind of call I wouldn't want to receive. You be that. And I'm going to answer the phone. So right now there's a ring brrring. And I'm happy to see the phone ringing because calls are like a box of chocolates. Hello.

Kyle (Listener) (50:10)

Your car insurance is about to expire, and we're offering you 50% off of our scammy insurance if you sign up with us today.

Tom Papa (50:20)

That's wonderful. And may I pass along to you that I'm currently wearing my grandmother's undergarments?

Jason (Listener) (50:27)

Okay.

Kyle (Listener) (50:27)

Thank you for sharing that. So, a bra and panties?

Tom Papa (50:33)

What kind of a sick freak wants to know what my grandma's undergarments are? What the hell is wrong with you, you twisted monster?

Kyle (Listener) (50:44)

Yeah, you're a monster.

Tom Papa (50:47)

You're a sick, twisted monster. Does your mother know you're calling people asking about their grandmother's undergarments?

Kyle (Listener) (50:53)

She will now if she listens to your podcast. I think you called her a couple of months.

Tom Papa (50:58)

Yeah, I know what she wears, by the way. I told me it's really cool. It's not the goofy stuff that a lot of elderly women wear, by the way. That's all we talked about.

Kyle (Listener) (51:08)

Okay.

Tom Papa (51:09)

I talked to your mother.

Kyle (Listener) (51:11)

Yeah? Yeah. She likes to talk to people. So I asked her if she would want to be on your call list. And you called her mother and she didn't think that the conversation went so well. I don't know if it actually aired.

Tom Papa (51:24)

I can't think of not using a call.

Kyle (Listener) (51:27)

Oh, okay. Well, then it's out there and I have to find it.

Tom Papa (51:30)

Sometimes when I'm talking to women, they don't think it goes very well because I don't give them as hard of a time as I do. Guys, I don't know what that is.

Kyle (Listener) (51:41)

I think you did give her a hard time because she just moved into a senior living place after they just sold their house of 52 years. And you were telling her that a senior living place is discriminatory towards young people.

Tom Papa (51:56)

I was probably also telling her that it was a hellhole. The idea being that a bunch of old people gathering with no children around, you might as well hurl me off the Sears Tower. Yeah.

Kyle (Listener) (52:08)

I don't know how they do it.

Tom Papa (52:09)

You know what you got to do with people like that? And I'm sorry, you got to get a bunch of teenage kids to show up and break their windows. You gotta have some vandalism. Then they can get caught and they can do restitution. They have to go and apologize to the elderly people, and the elderly people can meet them and say, you're really a nice boy. Why do you throw rocks at windows? I don't know. I'm just bored. Okay, well, let's. Let's find something that we can do together. Do you like cribbage? I'm sorry the call didn't go better with her, but my guess is I enjoyed it, too.

Kyle (Listener) (52:36)

That was her perception. Yeah, I would imagine it went fine.

Tom Papa (52:40)

Might it have been a call where she spent a lot of time talking about her worries about you? I think I recall her worrying about you.

Kyle (Listener) (52:47)

I think she. Yeah, she did mention that. And then she felt bad that she was. That she shared maybe more than she should have.

Tom Papa (52:55)

Yes. It's all coming back to me now. She was a little worried about you.

Kyle (Listener) (52:59)

Yeah, she should. I mean, I've been in rough shape.

Tom Papa (53:03)

How rough?

Kyle (Listener) (53:04)

Two years of really bad depression and pretty serious anxiety. And it's just every day was miserable. It's been a slog, but I think I'm coming out on the other side of it. I feel like I'm coming back online and.

Tom Papa (53:19)

Was there any particular trauma associated with it or don't you know what rhyme or reason is behind it?

Kyle (Listener) (53:27)

Nothing external triggered it. I went to South Africa for a couple of weeks with a friend, and I came back. What started out as just like what I thought Was jet lag turned into weird helplessness. And then I went really into a hellish place with, like, paranoia and delusion. Like, that's the only time in my life I've ever experienced borderline psychosis or something like that. And that abated. But then I couldn't climb out of just a really tortured type of anguish.

Tom Papa (54:02)

How long did that last?

Kyle (Listener) (54:04)

Two years of just. If you were to ask me how I was in those two years, the answer would have been, I'm very depressed.

Tom Papa (54:14)

In those two years, were you able to work?

Kyle (Listener) (54:18)

Yes. Work was my salvation. In fact, I became kind of a workaholic. I work in a restaurant. I'm a server. And I just picked up every possible shift I could. Social, it's active. It's. I'm serving.

Tom Papa (54:30)

It's really fascinating because you really realize the role of thoughts there. Your thoughts are different at work. You're not able to ruminate, and all of a sudden you're dramatically better. And then when you're back in rumination, you're back in the hole. But you still can't manage that on your own. You still can't say, well, okay, I'll just change my thoughts.

Kyle (Listener) (54:51)

I've tried a lot of different things over the years. In fact, one of the times he called me, I remember picking up the phone. I didn't answer because I was getting a transcranial magnet stimulation. I tried that.

Tom Papa (55:03)

Transcranial magnetic stimulation. I want to do that right now. I may be out of line, but if that could be one of the offerings in the midway at the fair this summer. Imagine it. You pass the freak show and you get to transcranial magnetic stimulation.

Kyle (Listener) (55:21)

It didn't do much for me. It works for some people, I guess.

Tom Papa (55:24)

I think I tried three dozen treatments, none of which worked. That's almost a practical joke at that point. Right?

Kyle (Listener) (55:36)

And you got to keep trying because maybe the next thing will be the thing.

Tom Papa (55:40)

To this day, I can't really tell you what worked. If someone were to ask me what I tell people is this. Anytime I'm asked, I say, you're standing there right now in front of me, a healthy human being. What have you done to feel good? And their answer should be if they're honest. All sorts of things are working together. More things than we even know work together to make us a healthy human being. So when I got. Well, my guess is several things came together to make it happen. But I'll never know because I never truly knew what caused it in the first place.

Kyle (Listener) (56:19)

Yeah, I completely identify with that. And it's by the grace of God that I'm feeling better these days. I mean, I have developed some new healthy habits that seem to be working for me. But I really appreciate how open you were about your depression. One of the reasons you're one of my heroes, you really shared your journey with people.

Tom Papa (56:43)

I thought of it as getting hit by a bus. I routinely referred to it as getting hit by a bus. Life was going along swimmingly. Everything was delightful. I loved my radio job. I had a couple of boys at home. I was married. I was in my 30s. The world was my oyster. I had tons of buddies. And then.

Kyle (Listener) (57:05)

Unbelievable.

Tom Papa (57:07)

Another thing I used to say, if I didn't use the bus analogy, was I used to say, it feels like some little man, a very little man, ran through the hallways of my brain, pulling out cords, yanking cords, unplugging things. And then slowly, over time, those things got plugged back in again. I don't know if you're aware of this, but with a lot of my relatives who, by the way, hid their depression, I learned only after I got it. Little letters in the mail, little cards, little phone calls. Sh. I had it, too. They all said the same thing. They said, eventually you get old and it goes away. Let me tell you my view of depression. So I've mentioned on the show before that there was a war on cancer declared in the early 70s, and in 2026, we still have cancer. Why is that? Cancer isn't one thing. There's all sorts of different kinds of cancer. Well, there's all sorts of different kinds of depression. It's got the one name, but it's a mistake to think of it as one illness. There's so many different versions, and it's

Kyle (Listener) (58:17)

not a great name for it. Actually, William Styron kind of writes about that. He's like a. Depression is like a small dip. It doesn't capture the gravity of how bad it can be.

Tom Papa (58:26)

Did he happen to offer an alternative?

Kyle (Listener) (58:30)

He might have used the word brainstorm.

Tom Papa (58:33)

Brainstorm is another ride at the midway I'm going on. We can use names like that that make it attractive. I had one relative tell me one time, this old guy in central Minnesota. He said, I was hospitalized. I said, so you had depression? He said, no, it was farm worries. Farm worries. Maybe we should call it that instead of depression. Then another old Irish guy in my neighborhood, wonderful guy, ran this little hardware store. He pulled me aside one day. Oh, I had it terrible, Tom. Terrible, terrible. In the old country. Depression. Oh, no, no. Nerves. Nerves, yeah.

Kyle (Listener) (59:17)

It's interesting how people think about it and talk about it and relate to it in their own lives.

Tom Papa (59:23)

I had a quadriplegic call me up one time. He was told I was depressed and he wanted to cheer me up. And the way he wanted to cheer me up was to say, I'm not depressed and I'm a quadriplegic. What's your problem? I said to him, it's not like that. This isn't something I could just magically get rid of with your phone call. That was again, the 90s, when people didn't really understand it as well. I don't know if you would have people do that now. Hey, Calling to cheer you up. Can't move anything below my neck. Couldn't be better. What's your problem? Are you still in the restaurant business?

Kyle (Listener) (60:00)

I am. I'll be heading to work here soon.

Tom Papa (60:03)

Okay. Well, I've really enjoyed visiting with you.

Kyle (Listener) (60:06)

I've been hoping for this conversation for a while. And I mean, so many people shower you with praise and it's so well deserved. And I could effusively gush, gush about how much value you've added to my life. And you know who got me started listening to you is Mike Gunther.

Tom Papa (60:23)

Oh, good old Mike Gunther. Gunther. I haven't thought about him in a while, but what a lovely man.

Kyle (Listener) (60:29)

He's a lovely man. I'll be seeing him on Friday for a show where I work and looking forward to seeing him, but yeah, we went to high school together and he was listening to you in the Vogel days, and it was a little before

Tom Papa (60:42)

my time, but I haven't seen him in years. One of my favorite people. Just delightfully quirky in all the best ways.

Kyle (Listener) (60:50)

Yeah, he's a very special human being. And, yeah, one reason I'm grateful for him is introducing me to you 30 years ago.

Tom Papa (60:58)

Does he play around town anymore?

Kyle (Listener) (61:01)

You know, not as often. He's a working man and a father.

Tom Papa (61:06)

Yeah.

Kyle (Listener) (61:07)

Although he did tell me he's taking classes at the U right now.

Tom Papa (61:11)

I would love to know in what subject. I could guess.

Kyle (Listener) (61:14)

He told me he was writing a paper on Jewish humor.

Tom Papa (61:18)

So, no, he's not Jewish, is he?

Kyle (Listener) (61:21)

No, I am. But yeah, he's not.

Tom Papa (61:23)

I would say as someone who is interested in humor, if you're going to study some ethnic group, that's the direction you want to. God knows some great humor came from that direction. Lord have mercy. Where would we be without Jews when it comes to humor? My God, we owe them.

Kyle (Listener) (61:40)

Yes, you do. We're a funny group.

Tom Papa (61:43)

And I don't fully, fully understand that. Unless humor is born out of suffering, then, of course, it makes great sense. But I think there's more to it than that, because in Judaism, there's also an emphasis on education. And I think somewhere it's the mix of those two.

Kyle (Listener) (62:01)

Well, we'll have to read Mike's paper.

Tom Papa (62:02)

Yeah. I'm glad he's doing that. Say hello to him for me. And it was wonderful hanging out with you.

Kyle (Listener) (62:09)

Yeah. Call again.

Tom Papa (62:10)

I will.

Kyle (Listener) (62:10)

Okay.

Tom Papa (62:11)

Bye. Bye.