MISCHKE: Lavish Lifestyle

Summary

Garage Logic – MISCHKE: Lavish Lifestyle

Gamut Podcast Network | March 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode of Garage Logic, guest-hosted by Tommy Mishke, explores the seductive pursuit of a “lavish lifestyle” through the lens of a recent news story: a DC postal worker convicted of stealing millions to fund high-end indulgences. Mishke uses this case as a jumping-off point to riff on envy, happiness, the illusions of wealth, and the true value of human connection. In classic Mishke style, the episode meanders from somber philosophical musings to quirky interviews, including an illuminating conversation with a successful Minneapolis “gentlemen’s club” performer named Holly. A wild Kennedy-assassination satire and a conversational call with a local listener round out the hour.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Postal Worker and the Desire for a Lavish Lifestyle

[01:30 – 07:30]

• Case Recap: Mishke recounts the story of a DC postal worker who stole over $1.6 million in checks to afford a “lavish lifestyle,” including international travel and luxury clubs.
• Motivation: Mishke highlights the feeling of envy driving the crime—envy for wealthy people seemingly enjoying so much more.
  • Quote: “If I could remove one thing from this world, it would be that sensation we all know so well. That sensation of envy.” – Mishke [06:10]
• Downfall: The postal worker’s fantasy of wealth ends in arrest and the prospect of a “Spartan, maybe… horrific” prison life.

2. Envy as a Human Weakness

[07:30 – 12:00]

• Mishke reflects on the role envy plays in so many crimes and miseries.
• Hypothetical: If envy were removed from the human condition, “how many crimes vanish from that scroll?”
• He identifies envy as a key source of personal and societal discontent.

3. Wealth, Happiness, and Purpose

[12:00 – 17:30]

• Contrasts: Mishke shares his observation that “by and large, the poor guys have been happier than the well-to-do folks” [13:20].
  • He breaks down what doesn’t change when you get rich: sleep, aches and pains, the taste of eggs and bacon with coffee.
  • Wealth may eliminate the need to work, but “without purpose, he flails. We need purpose or we get lost.”
• Purpose and Charity: Poorer people often give time, not money, and this, Mishke muses, is “a higher form of charity… showing a deeper level of care, a deeper level of commitment.” [15:15]
• True Joy: Laughter and camaraderie among friends, simple moments in nature—these, Mishke insists, are the real treasures life offers, often independently of wealth.

4. Epiphanies and the Illusion of Wealth

[17:30 – 23:00]

• Both the rich and poor are capable of small, transcendent moments—admiring sunlight, witnessing beauty, holding a newborn—that cannot be bought.
• Mishke questions if “the real goods cannot be purchased. They’re right outside our front doors. It is life itself, that pulsating mystery.” [20:20]
• For the convicted postal worker, the greatest loss is not money, but freedom itself.

5. The Fantasy of High-End Gentlemen’s Clubs

[24:00 – 41:00]

• Mishke introduces Holly, a top performer at the Seville Club in Minneapolis, to dispel illusions about strip club “lavishness.”
  • Reality Check: The postal worker spent fortunes for fleeting, artificial intimacy.
    – “He had to go home each night realizing he was buying a kind of artificial fondness.” [24:30]
• Holly’s Experience:
  • Clientele (25:24): “Most of the people that come into Seville are more business type people. It’s a classier group…”
  • Nature of Service: Dances are expensive, but many clients simply pay for conversation, advice, or even to be cuddled while they sleep—a far cry from constant sexual intrigue.
    • “I might sit with them and then we start talking. And sometimes I feel like it’s just us two in the room.” – Holly [26:52]
    • “I don’t take my clothes off anymore… I sit and talk all night. I’ve had guests that like to sleep for four or five hours.” – Holly [27:05]
    • “That must be one expensive nap.” – Interviewer [27:54] “Oh yes… $300 an hour.” – Holly [28:12]
  • Emotional Support: Many men bare their souls; some cry about loneliness and unappreciated lives.
    • “Nobody appreciates them… They work really hard and…nobody cares about them.” – Holly [29:03]
  • Sadness & Loneliness: The club is as much a refuge for emotional need as for sexual fantasy.
    • “Strip clubs exist because people are acutely lonesome.” – Interviewer [39:25]
    • “Even when they’re married, they’re lonely.” – Holly [39:32]
  • Boundaries: No sexual touching; sexual fantasy coexists with genuine conversations and friendship.
  • On Romance: Some customers believe they can “save” or date the dancer, but Holly reiterates that it’s her job.
  • Women Clients: The club also serves female customers, some of whom are regulars.

6. The Real Cost and Unexpected Fulfillment

[36:00 – 38:30]

• Holly’s Success: She bought a house and a condo; at 36 is financially set—thanks to smart money management and regulars who trust her.
• Relationships with Clients: Emotional intimacy, supportive advice, yet always transactional. Some clients wish they didn’t have to pay for companionship but can’t stay away.
  • “I just feel like this is all about money…I have to pay you to talk to you.” – Interviewer [37:05]
  • “You choose to come here, and you choose to come back.” – Holly [37:14]
• Holly’s Reflection: She enjoys seeing her regulars and would miss the connections if she left.

7. Societal Satire and Absurdist Detour: JFK Files

[44:17 – 51:43]

• Mishke veers into a satirical “news break” about the supposed final declassification of JFK assassination files.
  • In true Mishke comic style, he claims the newly released files “prove” JFK was assassinated by his own toddler son, John-John, with the help of a Cuban nursemaid—a wild, tongue-in-cheek conspiracy twist.
    • “Our young, dashing leader, JFK… was done in by Little John John. Little John John did it.” – Mishke [45:40]
• This segment functions as an absurd palate cleanser, laced with intentionally over-the-top mock conspiracy language.

8. Listener Call: “Two J’s”

[53:46 – 60:40]

• In a throwback to his talk radio days, Mishke calls a listener, “Two J’s.”
  • They banter about nicknames, curling, betting at the horse track, and the culture of certain leisure activities.
  • Philosophy of Gambling: Mishke recalls advice from writer Charles Bukowski:
    • “When you lose… ask yourself, had you gone to a restaurant instead… You went to have fun and it cost you some money. But sometimes… you win and go home with more money.” [56:03]
  • On Sales: Two J’s mentions his work in CPG/grocery sales; Mishke compliments his sincerity and authenticity.
• Mishke reflects on the randomness and joy of conversations with everyday people, echoing the episode’s theme that human connection is more valuable than moneyed pursuits.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “If I could remove one thing from this world, it would be… envy.” — Mishke [06:10]
• “By and large, the poor guys have been happier than the well-to-do folks. That was insight number one for me.” — Mishke [13:20]
• “We need purpose or we get lost.” — Mishke [14:10]
• “These little epiphanies… will mess with their whole notion of chasing dollar bills…” — Mishke [22:05]
• “He had to go home each night realizing he was buying a kind of artificial fondness.” — Mishke [24:30]
• “Most of the people that come into Seville are more business type people… It’s a classier group.” — Holly [25:24]
• “All he wanted to do was hug… I love this guy, though. He was the sweetest guy ever.” — Holly, on her favorite client [35:18]
• “Strip clubs exist because people are acutely lonesome.” — Interviewer [39:25]
• “Our young dashing leader, JFK… was done in by Little John John… This one is going to take a while to get over, folks.” — Mishke, in full satire [45:40]
• “I actually do think you have a secret gift, and I think it’s sincerity.” — Mishke to Two J’s [59:55]

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Tone and Style

• Conversational, deeply personal, funny, philosophical
• Mishke’s signature blend of dry wit, poignant observation, and unpredictability pervades the entire episode.
• The use of quirky listener interaction and off-the-wall satire provides comic relief and surprise.

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Segment Timestamps

• [00:00 – 07:30] – Case of the Envious Postal Worker / Reflections on Envy
• [07:30 – 17:30] – The Trap of the Lavish Dream / Finding Purpose and Real Joy
• [17:30 – 23:00] – Epiphanies, Freedom, and What Really Matters
• [24:00 – 41:00] – Interview with Holly: Truths of High-End Strip Clubs
• [44:17 – 51:43] – Satirical JFK Conspiracy
• [53:46 – 60:40] – Random Listener Call with “Two J’s”

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Conclusion

“Be careful what you wish for.” Mishke’s episode is ultimately a meditation on the seductive illusions of wealth, the simplicity of true happiness, and the irreplaceable treasure of real, unbought connection. Through stories, satire, and candid interviews, the episode dismantles the myth of the “lavish lifestyle"—concluding that the magic of life is in its moments, not its money.

Transcript

[Mishke]

At 5 Eyewitness News. You told us that fraud and wasted money are important to you, and that's why we're going after it. I'm Kevin Doran, and every day, 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS is following the money in your neighborhood, asking the tough questions, looking out for you, and uncovering fraud with your tax dollars. We're listening, and we're working hard to protect your money. Watch and see the difference on 5 Eyewitness News. Mishke here, joining the GL world to pitch my new podcast, which now comes out twice a week, Wednesdays and Fridays. The show features an extraordinary array of exotic circus performers, forgotten Hollywood starlets, reclusive Fortune 500 CEOs, professional taxidermists. Wait a minute. That's a different promo. Where's the promo for G elers? Here it is. Let's try this again. Mishke here pitching my new podcast. We're out of time. Could I do it again? Coming to ya from the bleak, barren inner city tarmac of University Avenue. From the mother ship, Hubbard Broadcasting. Legendary Hubbard Broadcasting. My name is Mishke. You're ding. Flipping what you call your eyefalutin hidey. Hideyoski. To each and every one of you out there. Where with this show, Misko, who knows? You don't need a weatherman to see which way the show flows. Here goes. A Washington, D.C. postal worker was found guilty this week of stealing more than $1.6 million worth of U.S. treasury and private party checks from the mail to fund a lavish lifestyle. Postal workers generally are not afforded a lavish lifestyle. So this guy went out and found his way to one, albeit illegally. The guy was an employee with the D.C. postal Service, a working man putting in his time in a civil service job, going through life, keeping his head down. Every now and then, looking at the wealthy from a distance, wondering, why do they get to have that? And here I am stuck in in this rut. Why? God. But he saw a chance to be somebody different. He deposited altered stolen checks into his bank account. And he was living high off the hog for a while. Lord, he was. But bank surveillance footage eventually caught up with him. He was shown on camera making deposits and withdrawals of these funds. He used the proceeds from his scheme, it says here, to fund a lavish lifestyle that included international travel, stays at luxury hotels, and purchases at gentlemen's clubs. High end gentlemen's clubs. You know what those are? A jury this week found him guilty of conspiracy to commit theft of mail and bank fraud. The maximum penalty, 30 years in prison. Now, I've taken a look at some of the prison options awaiting this fella. And the lavish lifestyle part, well, that's gonna be coming to an end. Based on my observations. The lifestyle where he's going could have a one word description. It just wouldn't be lavish. Spartan, maybe. Raw? Horrific. Yes, horrific. He's traded a lavish lifestyle for a horrific one. What lifestyle did he have before the lavish lifestyle? A lifestyle of envy, mostly. And therein lies the problem. If I could remove one thing from this world, it would be that sensation we all know so well. That sensation of envy. Longing for what we don't have. Longing for what we don't have and someone else does. Lord, if that ain't what does us in so much of the time. Imagine the world's crime report for this week. Imagine it right now. Every crime committed in the world over the last week. You got that in your head. Imagine the long scroll, okay? From the smallest incident of shoplifting to the greatest war crime. And tell me, what does that scroll shrink to if we remove that human sensation of envy? How many crimes vanish from that scroll if we yank envy from the picture? This guy was working for the post office. And that doesn't bring with it much in the way of what you call lavish. And he knew there were other guys out there living well, guys enjoying a very lavish lifestyle. They were in fancy hotels. That's the first thing that got to him. They were traveling and staying in fancy hotels. That image alone ate away at him. And. And they had money to go to gentlemen's clubs. High end gentlemen's clubs. Spending wildly on women lap dances, no doubt. Meanwhile, our man had trouble getting a date. It's a lot of work. It's quite an effort sometimes. He got a date every now and then. But it was hard. It ain't as much work when you have money. He thought, God, this isn't fair. What did you do to me? Lord? He saw a way out. Sure he did. He came up with a scheme. Have you ever come up with a scheme? And now because of that scheme, he'll be in that far less lavish world with that lone, exposed open toilet in that tiny cell with a roommate named Ox. It's a great tumble off that cliff of lavish. A tumble from lavish past good enough down to horrific. Horrific. It's interesting. I've learned a little secret about all this stuff. I really have. I've learned a secret about all of this. I'm never one to claim to have any great insight to pass along to the world, but I have learned a Little secret that has really helped me with this envy business. Here's the thing. I know rich guys. I've been able in my life to hang out with rich guys. And, and I know poor guys. I've spent a fair amount of time with poor guys as well. And by and large the poor guys have been happier then the well to do folks. That was insight number one for me in this world. Holy smokes. Who saw that coming? Boy, was that a wake up call. That shocked me. What was that all about? I wondered. What are the poor guys doing being happier than the rich guys? Something's all cattywampus here. I couldn't figure it out for a while. I had my theories, but we'll get to all that later. The important thing here is the rich guys were generally not as happy, not as satisfied, not as content. Almost across the board. You think when you get rich everything's going to change. But let me tell you what doesn't change. And the list is long. It's really, really, really long. What doesn't change is you still sleep for eight hours in a bed with a pillow. You don't escape that. So a third of your life is suddenly identical. Identical to less affluent folks. You just got rich and a third of your life is no different. Wait a minute. What? Number two. You wake up and may or may not feel great. If you're old, you probably have stiffness, aches, pains, just like the less affluent. So far there isn't much that's different, but we'll keep going. You're able to afford a great breakfast when you're rich. But guys who don't have a lot of dough rarely complain about their breakfasts. The eggs and the bacon taste just fine. In fact, more than fine. They're good. So is the coffee. Okay, so we're now well into the morning and nothing is really different. But the rich guy doesn't have to work. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. But without purpose, he flails. He flails. We need purpose. We need purpose or we get lost. We need a reason to get up in the morning. The less affluent person working to get the money together to support his family is operating with purpose. And it's dramatically helping his sense of well being. Versus purposeless rich guy. Now purposeless rich guy realizes this is a bit of a problem. He needs purpose and he wants to feel good about himself. And one day he, he gives a bunch of money to some charity and suddenly does feel better about himself. Less affluent guy is stuck just helping his buddy Move on the weekend, lifting boxes, hauling out garbage. But less affluent guy gave his time, which is generally considered by the great spiritual sages of our time, to be a higher form of giving than giving money, a higher form of charity, giving time. Unlike money you see, which can be replenished, time is finite. It's quite a thing to give away. It's irreplaceable. Giving time signifies a deliberate choice to dedicate a portion of your limited existence to assist someone else, showing a deeper level of care, deeper level of commitment. This is well studied in certain circles. Offering time often involves direct interaction, creating a more meaningful connection between the giver and the receiver. It's personal, and it enriches one's existence. Here's the real kicker. One of the things the less well to do guy likes to do is laugh. And his friends are good at making him laugh. He's been pals with them forever, and they're very close. And there are days when the joy they feel laughing and telling stories together is such that life almost can't get any better. Maybe they're enjoying a beer. Maybe they're in the shade near a river, watching a purple and orange evening sky. But life in that moment feels kind of perfect. And money did not buy that experience. Living dead. And in their laughter, their deep laughter, there's a kind of freedom, an inexplicable release of all cares, a kind of ecstasy. Maybe the wealthy guy has those friends as well. He might. And then again, he might have spent so much time working at the wealth game that interpersonal relationships didn't end up being as strong. Relationships take time and effort. Sometimes in life you have to make choices between going for the dough with all the time that demands and going for the deeper relationships. The wealthy have made choices that aren't always going to be the ones they'll celebrate most on their deathbed. But there's more. One day, both the wealthy man and the less affluent fellow will have certain and rather sudden epiphanies, if you will. Those epiphanies will come at random times in a day or week. The sun will deliver light in a certain way to a line of trees along a boulevard. And they will both momentarily hold their breath. It'll take their breath away briefly, before they have time to think. They will have this palpable thrill looking at this light. It will be so beautiful. But that ecstatic sensation will not last, because their thoughts will fill in that space and ruin it after a minute or so. But for a time, they will have realized how strangely wondrous the world is. How, how magical. All caused by the way the sunlight hit those trees along that boulevard. They ask themselves, have they been too busy to see it regularly? To see it week in and week out? They start to wonder. Maybe their epiphany comes when pulling over to the side of the road to watch the flight of an eagle. Maybe once again in the light, the way the light hits those white feathers, the grace of that flight. They'll forget about everything for a little while and life will just seem like a dream they were thrown into a wonderful dream. Maybe their epiphany will be a vista where the sunrise will be coming up over a small town. Maybe they're looking over the rooftops as that light comes up in the morning. Maybe there will be almost a religious sensation accompanying that vista, something sacred about the whole scene, something wonderfully, beautifully mysterious. These little epiphanies will happen more and more as they get older. And it'll make them wonder whether or not all the real majesty of life isn't sitting there available to one and all each and every day, that the real goods cannot be purchased. They're right outside our front doors. It is life itself, that pulsating mystery. Maybe less affluent guy will watch his child being born and he'll think, when will it get better than this? Maybe wealthy guy will be with his wife one night in the throes of intimacy and think to himself, wow, this feels like when we were young and first dating and had nothing and life was perfect. Life was perfect because we were in bed together and nothing else really mattered. And really nothing the wealthy guy ever did in life topped that sensation. These epiphanies with these guys will mess with their whole idea of envy. It will mess with their heads, mess with their whole notion of chasing dollar bills, mess with their sense of what the whole big ball game is all about. Now it's too late for our postal worker. He went for something he thought was the Holy Grail. And not only wasn't it the Holy Grail, it cost him dearly. Cause the envy he will now feel in prison is a very hard one to get rid of. He will be envying the free. He will be envying those who know freedom itself. Just that sense of freedom, of walking where one wants to walk. Turning corners at will. Walking down streets a person feels like walking down. Finding wooded areas to explore. Watching wild rivers that just capture our imaginations. Deciding to take a drive, maybe to the ocean. These are the treasures laid out for one and all. This is our birthright. And in prison, our guy will know none of it. All because of Envy, that nasty, nasty thing that. That I wish was never invented. The devil himself must have created that one. Envy. Few things do us in with more surgical precision than that. I'll be right back with a twist on this postal workers story. A twist you don't see coming right after this. There are reasons to call my personal injury attorneys, Bradshaw and Bryant, and this is not one of them. A man in New York just sued a social media company after he walked straight into a street sign while distracted looking at his phone. He claimed the phone app that he was using had a bad design to it. Thus it was dangerous and that's why he walked into the street sign. That man is a ninny, Hammer. He's a mutton head. He's an adult brained klutz with retread for gray matter. Now if you think you were honestly, truly, actually injured by some careless, reckless soul out there, that's when you contact Bradshaw and Bryant. They have been taking care of the injured for years and years, getting them the financial compensation to get them back on their feet. People out there can be callous, but you can square things with superheroes by your side. Bradshaw and Bryant, they seek justice for the injured and they get it. Learn more at Minnesota Personal Injury.com. If you ask me, the saddest part of this entire story involving the postal worker is that the guy committed these crimes with his eyes on being able to enjoy high end fancy gentlemen's clubs. The wealthy guy can pay women at the high end gentlemen's clubs to make em feel good. This postal worker, it says here, blew a ton of cash at high end gentlemen's clubs, but he had to go home each night realizing he was buying a kind of artificial fondness. Less affluent fella had to find his intimacy the old fashioned way through actual courtship. That's harder. The payoff is greater though. The rich guy can't even be sure the woman who eventually becomes his spouse or love interest really cares for him versus just being hungry for the lifestyle that this relationship bought her. Tough to know a person's intentions when they gravitate to you after learning you have a lot of dough. Less affluent guy doesn't have to worry about all that. Our postal worker wanted high end gentlemen's clubs. Dear God, if our man only knew about these joints. I could have saved him so much trouble. I could have told him about the Seville in downtown Minneapolis. You know about the Seville? What a wake up call that would have been for our man. That's not what he imagined when he was stealing those checks. He had it all wrong. I spent some time with one of the top high end strippers at the Seville, asking her all about that world. I wanted to know what goes on in there. What goes on in the super expensive high end gentleman's clubs where they say if a woman isn't a 10, she. She cannot be hired? Where they say only the best of the best can work there because the clientele is the wealthiest of the wealthy. It's a hard gig to get, she told me, but oh, who was it? Lucrative. 300 bucks an hour plus tips. And the tips were lavish. Absolutely lavish. Inside those walls, women were walking up to these high rollers, asking if they would like a dance. Would you like a dance? And everything would come off but a skimpy bottom. Other women work in the VIP room upstairs for 300 bucks an hour. Were spending loads of time with a single guy. Drinks flowing, tips piling up. Our man, the postal worker, wanted to be incredibly wealthy so he could head to places like the Seville in downtown Minneapolis to live it up with beautiful women. Beautiful women. I remember talking to Holly. She was the queen of the Seville. Extraordinarily gorgeous. Began working there at 26 years of age. And by 36, when I sat down with her, she had purchased a beautiful home in the western suburbs, right on a lake. I visited her there. The place was astounding. And she also owned a condo down in Florida. All from what she took in at the Seville. Before going to the Seville. What was she doing? A secretary for health partners. Broke. Living the grind. Our man, the postal worker, wanted to be incredibly wealthy so he could head to places like the Seville and live it up with people like Holly. When I interviewed Holly, she told me she never had to work another day in her life. At 36 years of age, she was set. Never had to work again. She had managed her money well. The men at the Seville over those 10 years had rained down cash all over Holly. Suitcases full of it. Gifted her with jewelry, expensive jewelry. Holly was a star at the Seville. And here's the strange thing. By the time I was interviewing her, the men had grown to love her so much, she didn't even need to take her clothes off anymore. The needy men who came in with their thick wallets wanted her ear. They probably all wanted her heart as well. But they were not going to get that. Yeah, she no longer really needed to take her clothes off anymore. Because the men she dealt with were mostly sad, wealthy, troubled souls who needed far more than a beautiful, well toned nude body. They needed something else. They were lonely. They needed advice. They needed a hug. They needed to find a way to learn to be with a woman again after spending too much time with money and attracting the kind of women who didn't much care for them beyond their money. The men had all gotten rich, but at what cost? They were messed up. And Holly was now their confidant. A sultry, sexy therapist. 36 years old and thinking of quitting altogether, but still going in once a week to put in her hours and cater to those who loved her. So mostly up in the VIP room, where the rule remained the no sexual touching, but where Holly could spend hours with these guys. Hours.

[Holly]

Most of the people that come into Seville are more business type people. It's a classier group. People that have been to clubs before, so they respect the girls. We have a lot of women that come into the Seville.

[Interviewer]

What's going on there with women at a club like that?

[Holly]

There are the women that come in just to have a good time. They're with their friends and it's funny and it's fun and they're just joking around and having a good time. I did have regular females that would come in to see me. They were lesbians. They just wanted to talk and hang out and have a good time. And they sit in like lower chairs. You give them dances. Very strict rules, no touching. Some girls are stage girls. They enjoy stage. They look forward to getting to go on stage. I like one on one. I like talking to people. I like getting to know them. You go up to the guests and you talk to any guest that you want. If you don't feel comfortable with somebody, you can get up and walk to the next table. And then we have a VIP section which is more of an hourly type thing. So people can pay you $300 an hour to go to sit in the VIP. They can get dances the whole time. They can talk. I think I'm good at helping people to feel comfortable. I like eye contact. I like making them feel like there's nobody else in the room. It's just us. And then after I do the dance, I might sit with them and then we start talking. And sometimes I feel like it's just us two in the room and I feel like they feel that way too.

[Interviewer]

You said you've gotten to the point with these guys where your clothes are on most of the time?

[Holly]

Oh, yeah, I sit with them. I don't take my clothes off anymore and I put my feet up and we sit and talk all night. I've had guests that like to sleep for four or five hours.

[Interviewer]

Sleep?

[Holly]

Oh yeah, I'm just sitting right next to him. Well, he kind of sits back and lays back against the couch and I kind of lay next to him and he puts his head on me and he goes to sleep. He puts his feet up on the table and he said that it's hard for him to sleep when it's quiet and he likes all the noise, like it helps him to sleep and he just feels comfortable he has someone to cuddle with. He's not married. I've been there from 7 to 3 o' clock in the morning.

[Interviewer]

The majority of this time he's sleeping the whole time. What are you doing?

[Holly]

Sometimes I fall asleep. Sometimes I just sit and hang out.

[Interviewer]

And when the guy wakes up, rested, feeling good, ready to move on. That must be one expensive nap.

[Holly]

Oh yes, it's very expensive. And can you give us a sense.

[Interviewer]

Of how expensive that nap was?

[Holly]

$300 an hour. And sometimes he'll have me bring a friend over and he'll pay the other girl to cuddle up too. He's had three, four, five girls all cuddled together while he sleeps. Like talking. Like a slumber party almost. But he's sleeping.

[Mishke]

Wow.

[Holly]

And it's gonna sound crazy, but he's not the only one.

[Mishke]

What did you think was going on in those gentlemen's clubs? I had different ideas myself, I'll tell you that. But this wasn't the half of it. Holly told me about men coming in just to. Just to open up to her, just to bare their souls, just to pour out their emotions.

[Interviewer]

Do you have guys who start crying when they talk to you?

[Holly]

Oh yeah.

[Interviewer]

What are they talking about at that point?

[Holly]

Nobody appreciates them. They work really hard and they try to take care of everybody, provide for everybody. And nobody cares about them, nobody loves them, nobody treats them with respect.

[Interviewer]

You must, after a while, say, boy, men put up a hell of a facade. At least these high buck businessmen who seem to have the world by the tail.

[Holly]

Oh, definitely. I think some of the people that come to see me are some of the strongest people. I feel privileged that they feel comfortable enough to let out some of the things that they wouldn't tell anybody else or that they just need to get out.

[Interviewer]

Strongest people. In what way?

[Holly]

They have very powerful jobs, they work really hard, they are really big in their community. I have one guy, he's a lawyer and every girl hated him because he's not very nice. And it's insult after insult, and I give it right back to him. That's been our relationship. We argue, we say bad things about each other. He gives me money, and he walks out one day. He comes in and he's telling me about this case that he had, and he's telling me that he lost the case. And I'm like, that's because you suck as a lawyer. And I look at him and he's crying. I was just kidding. You really don't suck as a lawyer. That's just how we've always. And he's like, no, I know. I know. That's how. Not tonight, please. Just not tonight. It took me by surprise. I never, ever would have thought this guy even had feelings.

[Interviewer]

So this gig has evolved into some new thing.

[Holly]

When I go there, I feel like it's a movie. It's a fantasy world. Guys get to sit there, and they get to be who they want to be, say what they want to say. Maybe at home, their wife is mean to them. Their boss is mean to them. We have a lot of that.

[Interviewer]

When you say you treat it like a movie. So you're walking onto a set.

[Holly]

Yes. And you never know what character you're gonna play tonight.

[Interviewer]

Based on everything I've heard so far, a lot of these guys, when they're with you, are perhaps not acting for the first time in their day.

[Holly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

A lot of guys walking in the door have been acting all day and are acting as they stroll through the.

[Mishke]

Door and are acting as they sit.

[Interviewer]

At the table and impress their friends. The whole thing's an actual perhaps right up until they get to know and spend time with you. You, meanwhile, have times, based on what you said earlier, where you are completely 100% yourself, not acting at all. And also times when you're 100% acting.

[Holly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Reality and fantasy. It is phoniness and real human intimacy.

[Holly]

Yes. For some reason, I've always been the one to attract the very strange people. For instance, this guy from India comes in, and he looks me up and down and says, you're too nice. And I was like, well, how do you know? And then he's like, I'll give you a chance. Let's go upstairs. We go upstairs, and he says, order me a shot. Strong. So I was like, okay, I want to get him a patron. He says, before you feed it to me, I want you to spit in it. Spit in the shot. I want you to slap me. Slap me across the face. I'm like, now I want you to kick me. Can you kick me.

[Interviewer]

Do you think in general, these guys never figured out how to really be with women?

[Holly]

Yes, I completely believe that. They even ask, I don't know how to talk to women. I don't know what to say and I get really nervous. And they'll ask how they can do it, what approaches, what's okay to say to a girl, what's not. And that's what I think they also like about coming there is if they went to a bar and said it, some lady is gonna be like, forget you, walk away, slap them, whatever. But for us, we're like, no, no, no, don't say that. That's not a good way to start and help them out.

[Interviewer]

There's a lot of sadness in this.

[Holly]

Oh, there is? Yeah.

[Mishke]

So, postal worker, be careful what you wish for. That lavish lifestyle, visiting high bucked gentlemen's clubs like the Seville, was that what you were hoping for when committing those crimes? That level of pitiful misery? How about just going down to the pickleball court and asking out the woman sitting alone with her gym bag? Worst she can say is no, thank you. But you might find out she's lonely too and wants to go have lunch. She'll keep her clothes on, you'll keep your clothes on and you'll just talk. A lot like life at the Seville, actually, minus the $300 an hour fee.

[Holly]

Nice to meet you.

[Mishke]

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[Holly]

My very favorite story. I had A guy who was in his late 80s that was coming to see me, and he was. His wife passed away. He had no children, not very much family. He had a niece that kind of helped him out. That's about it. And he would come in, and all he wanted to do was hug. We would talk a little bit, and then he'd be like, okay, well, instead of a dance, can I get a hug? And so we would hug sometimes for a half hour. An hour. I love this guy, though. He was the sweetest guy ever. I ended up going to visit him after he got sick at hospice. And I was there the day before he passed away. I went to his funeral. I met his niece and his family.

[Interviewer]

You've made enough money where you never have to work again. And you work once a week, even though you don't have to. Because.

[Holly]

Because I've had the same people coming to see me, and I look forward to seeing them as much as they look forward to seeing me. And I wouldn't want to just walk away from them.

[Interviewer]

So this is. So you have these people. You really would miss them if you walked away from them. You enjoy being with them. You enjoy talking to them. And they're going to pay an extraordinary amount of money for that.

[Holly]

You have to pay 300 an hour.

[Interviewer]

If I'm a guy coming in and paying that money, there has to be some point at which I say to myself, and they all must have said, this boy, I really feel a connection with her. She really listens well. We have this great time. She seems to like me, but I pay for it all.

[Holly]

Oh, yeah?

[Interviewer]

What do they say?

[Holly]

They'll say, I just feel like this is all about money. I have to pay you to talk to you. And I say, you came here, you met me at my job doing this, and you chose to come here, and you choose to come back.

[Interviewer]

Does that response bother any of them?

[Holly]

I have had people be like, I just can't afford this. I'm not coming to see you anymore. And I say, okay, I respect that. I understand. I wouldn't want you to come in and spend money that you don't have. Maybe a couple weeks later, I get a phone call, okay, so when do you work?

[Interviewer]

Do you think there are guys coming in there who have a great relationship with a girlfriend or wife?

[Holly]

Yes, I do.

[Interviewer]

How's that work?

[Holly]

I've had guys that will. They'll tell their wives, sometimes they'll bring their wives, sometimes you'll get to meet the wife. They just feel like it's an escape and to keep that good relationship, they need an outlet. And so they come in, they have fun. And I mean, I had a guy that came in and he. All he did was talk about this girl. He was in love with her. I never danced for him, but he would just pay me to sit and talk. And he's in love with this girl. He brought the ring in that he was gonna propose to her with and showed it to me. And he's like, do you think she'll like it? I think it was just a place for him to get feedb and make sure that he was doing the right things.

[Interviewer]

Are there guys who really think they have a shot with you?

[Holly]

Yes. Every night.

[Interviewer]

Every night?

[Holly]

Yes. I want to take you away from this place, and I'm going to take care of you. You'll never have to work again.

[Two J's]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

What has gone on in their life that they think that's going to work?

[Holly]

My favorite are when you sit by a guy and he's maybe attractive, and you say, would you like a dance? And they're like, you should be paying me to dance for me.

[Interviewer]

I think it's important to a lot of these guys that the women in this place are attracted to them. Yes. They're taking their money. But you also kind of dig me, don't you? I mean, clearly you must.

[Holly]

Yes. I will tell guys they're making a mistake by coming in there to meet the girl. Because when a girl is there, it's work mode. I'm here to make money. This is my job. And so these guys that think that they're gonna get a date from that.

[Interviewer]

No, Ed, want you to comment on this one. Strip clubs exist because people are acutely lonesome.

[Holly]

Yes. For sure. Even when they're married, they're lonely. If they have a bad marriage, we serve food. And I've had guys that want to come in and just have dinner, and they've explained to me, do you know how hard it is going to a restaurant and sitting by yourself and eating? And everybody's sitting there and talking with whoever they're there with, and you're just sitting there all by yourself.

[Interviewer]

Men wander into strip clubs not to cheat on their spouses. Statistically, cheating happens in the mainstream workplace. Thousands of men have affairs with co workers, secretaries, assistants. Men don't wander into strip clubs to cheat on their spouses. They come in to nurse a beer and pay a person to listen to them. A woman who does not require anything from them emotionally.

[Holly]

I agree, and I don't. I've been approached by A lot of men to cheat on their wife, but I think it ends up being a safe place, because we're not gonna meet you outside of the club. We're not. So you can have the fantasy. Maybe one day it's gonna happen and we're gonna be together. But it's your fantasy. I mean, I tried to play on there. Really? Would you really want to do that to your wife? Would you be able to go home and look at her in the face after you did that? And they're like, yes.

[Interviewer]

You have this sort of a best friend kind of quality with these guys in terms of how you're advising them, and yet you are in a highly sexually charged environment. Can you help me reconcile those two things? What parts? The sexual part. Because this is a place where sex is in the air. Sexual desire is in the air.

[Holly]

Mm. The desire is there for sure. With every person that I met, I have danced for them, and it did start out that way. They looked at me. They liked the way that I looked. And then they got to know me, and then we're, like, buddies and friends, and we can talk. A lot of the guys that I have will want me to get other girls to come dance for us.

[Interviewer]

It's no longer appropriate to have you dancing for them. It's too weird.

[Holly]

Yeah. They'll be like, you know, I think you're beautiful, and I really like. But we should have that girl come.

[Interviewer]

Over because she can just represent that image of a woman. You've become too much of a real person.

[Holly]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Is there any part of the sexual desire part that bothers you? Any of it?

[Holly]

No, it doesn't bother me. I mean, the only time that it bothers me is when somebody is really pursuing, trying to cheat on their wife.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But if you take that out of it, if you just realize that what these guys are thinking when you're dancing for them is clearly having you.

[Holly]

Yeah, it doesn't bother me at all.

[Interviewer]

Do you like it?

[Holly]

I like it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is it so much of a job with you that it literally doesn't matter if the guy is attractive or unattractive?

[Holly]

Oh, yeah. It doesn't matter.

[Interviewer]

Literally doesn't.

[Holly]

No. People are, like, surprised. There are some guys that will come in that girls won't dance for. They think they're gross or whatever. Doesn't bother me at all. They're a human being. I like them.

[Interviewer]

Was there ever a time early on when you said to yourself, I'm surprised at how well I took to this. This is not what I would have Expected to be the thing I really fell in love with. This is really surprising to me, how this played out.

[Holly]

I think it actually surprised more of my family than it did me.

[Interviewer]

Well, we haven't even talked about that.

[Holly]

I have always been the shy, quiet girl. The shy, good, quiet girl that did what I was supposed to. Family reunions. I would sit and sit with the adults, and everybody was shocked. No way. I never would have guessed her to do this. Mom's reaction at first, she was pretty mad at me, and she was like, I can't believe that you would do this. And she took it as I was gonna get into drugs. She thought that I was trying to break up people's marriages. After a while, I would tell her the stories. I'd tell her what's going on, and she actually became kind of interested. She'd be like, so, what happened tonight? Tell me all about it. She saw that I wasn't taking a bad path with it, which some girls do. I think the funniest thing, though, was maybe a couple years ago, I went to my reunion, and my. My grandma's sister was there, and she said, are you still doing that stripping thing? I'm kind of surprised. Wouldn't those men want to look at younger girls than you? Wow.

[Mishke]

Thank you. Wow. Well, I'm feeling like making some phone calls, talking to the people. I need to have an unpredictable part of this hour. Something I don't see coming has to be a wild card for it to feel right. Give me something I don't know I'm gonna hear. Before I do make the phone calls, though, I do want to mention Executive Order 14176. Been waiting a long time for Executive Order 14176. Title of that order. Declassification of assassination records. Yeah. Executive Order 14176, signed by the President of the United States. The final release of all government secrets relating to the 1963 assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy. The National Archives released them this week. Countless pages of records and photographs, motion pictures, sound recordings, artifacts, documents. And now we know. Now we know why these files were hidden, kept away from the public for so long, buried in vaults that no one could get at. Now we know. Now we know. And the revelations, well, they're shocking. JFK's assassination, it turns out, was not Oswald. It is crystal clear now. It's over. It's out. Cat's out of the bag. Oswald had nothing to do with it. He was a patsy, just like he argued. But it is one thing to learn, as we are learning, that Oswald was not the culprit. It's quite another thing to learn who was. America wasn't ready for this revelation back in 1963. It's understandable why this had to be kept from the public for so long. Even I would have argued for these files to be hidden away. I'm serious. The United States population 1963 would have been shattered. Shattered beyond belief to learn the truth of what happened that sunny afternoon in Dallas. I actually question now whether we, the population of America in 2025, should be allowed to know. But too late. Files are out, They've been released. We know we can't unknow it. And in no conspiracy book, and I've read a ton in none of them, did I ever read of this as even being a possibility. What we know now, of all the different ways the assassination might have gone, including CIA involvement, Mafia involvement, Russian involvement, Cuban involvement. I just never imagined anyone offering this possibility. But now it's no longer even in the category of possibility. It has moved front and center as the truth. The truth that's been kept away from us for decades. The top secret files just released to the American public make it clear that John F. Kennedy was assassinated by. I can't even say it. Our young dashing leader, JFK are vibrant Commander in Chief was done in by Little John John Little John John did it. Which just makes a person sick. Especially when thinking about that Life magazine cover with the cute little kid saluting his daddy's casket. You phony little fraud. Phony little toddler. You should have been spanked that afternoon at the very least. And you had us all fooled with your manufactured sweet innocence. I should have been suspicious from the get go. We all should have been. Think about it. No one ever bothered to ask where John John was on November 22, 1963. How did we miss that? Walk the streets of America today. Ask people. Ask anyone. Do you know where Jon Jon was on November 22, 1963? Not one person will be able to give you an answer. Not one. He was in Dallas with his nursemaid, who, you guessed it happened to be Cuban. She had lost her father in the Bay of Pigs and had been seething ever since. John John loved her. Loved her more than his own mother. For it was the nursemaid who cared for him daily. She had changed his diapers as an infant, wiped his runny nose as a toddler. And she had told him over and over and over again the story of the Bay of Pigs. How JFK had failed to provide air support for the invading soldiers Making it a slaughter. John John burned with rage. His father had been a coward. Now, Jon Jon did not say the words quite like that. He was three. He said them in a cute little kid voice. You know, mispronouncing words and just talking in a sweet high pitched little kid voice. Very cute, but still with all the rage a three year old could muster. They say the number one reason these files have been released now is that Jon Jon is deceased. Thus we avoid a trial. Everything can come out now. The nursemaid too passed away four years ago. She left a note which was found buried in the files describing how she had held Jon Jon up in the air over the top of the fence near the grassy knoll area, telling him to aim just like they had practiced in the rose garden. She said he was awkward and clumsy and distracted, but he more than made up for that with his burning rage. This one is going to take a while to get over, folks. This one is gonna be a toughie. America is not what we thought. Well, let's go to the phone.

[Two J's]

Hi, I am a Google assistant recording this call for the person you are trying to reach. Before I try to connect to you, can I ask what you're calling about? Hello? Hi, you can ask who I'm speaking to. Okay, one last thing before I transfer you. Can I ask who I'm speaking to? Okay, let me try to get the person you're trying to reach on the line. Sorry, but they're not able to take the call. I already shared our conversation. But if you'd like to add anything else, please feel free to do so now. Okay, got it. Have a great day.

[Mishke]

What the hell was that? I mean, forget about what I did. I'm talking about what that guy was doing. I mean, what's that all about? I've never encountered that in a phone call. Now granted, he's never encountered what I did in a phone call either. But again, forget about that momentarily. What was that? Is that a new way of calling? You get a built in secretary somehow with some special phone. What was that? I've not come across that before. Well, I wanted something unpredictable in the show. That's a new experience for me. And again, I'm sure a new experience for him.

[Two J's]

This is two J's.

[Mishke]

Two J's?

[Two J's]

Mishke. What's going on?

[Mishke]

They call them the two J's.

[Two J's]

Not J.J. that's too common of a name. Gotta change it up.

[Mishke]

And do you think that that's a moniker that fits you? If I were to run into you on the Street. Would you come across to me as A2J's type of A guy? Because there's a whole image in my head surrounding that name.

[Two J's]

Probably not.

[Mishke]

I don't think you would. Because the name that I'm getting right now, just from the short time we've had together, is not the two Js. The name I'm getting is Craig. C R A, I, G. That's not your real name, by any chance, is it? Craig?

[Two J's]

That is not, but pretty close.

[Mishke]

Yeah. That's how you're coming across two Js. Almost sounds like somewhere in life you decided you needed a whole new image, an image makeover. You started with the two Js, and maybe you stopped there. Maybe there was more to do and you didn't bother. What do you do?

[Two J's]

Two Js hang out at the curling club here in St. Paul. That's a big thing. And the other thing is hang out at the horse track.

[Mishke]

So you hang out at a curling club? Hopefully not near the children or at the horse track.

[Two J's]

That's right.

[Mishke]

And at the horse track, when you hang out there, who are you annoying? I mean, what are you doing?

[Two J's]

Probably the jockeys.

[Mishke]

You like the jockeys, huh? The briefs or. What do you mean by that?

[Two J's]

They're not giving me the insight of what horses are going to win. That race.

[Mishke]

You bet on the horses, how do you fare?

[Two J's]

Pretty good. Some good years. You have some so so years.

[Mishke]

But when you add it all together, it's mostly a loss, isn't it?

[Two J's]

I won a big tournament a few years ago.

[Mishke]

Tournament? Tournament. What are you riding the horses?

[Two J's]

I did that a few times, but I found out that that's illegal.

[Mishke]

You can't just run out on the track and jump on them. Yeah, you don't want to do that. I've done that. Let me tell you, prison is no fun. Your roommate is a guy named Ox. And there's just the one toilet.

[Two J's]

What have you learned about riding horses?

[Mishke]

The sport of kings? I've learned quite a bit about it. I learned everything I need to know about horse racing from Charles Bukowski. You know Bukowski?

[Two J's]

How you doing, Matt?

[Mishke]

Well, I ran into him out in California at the tracks years ago, and he gave me all sorts of insight. But the biggest insight he gave me was this. He said, when you lose, and you will lose, Misko, when you lose, ask yourself, had you gone to a restaurant instead, had you gone to a bar instead, had you gone to a play, a movie instead, would you expect to get into your car afterwards with more Money. No, you would not. You went to have fun and it cost you some money. This was fun and it cost you some money. But sometimes it doesn't. Every now and then you win and you go home with more money. That's why it's better than the restaurant, the movie, the play, the bar. That's what Bukowski told me.

[Two J's]

Couldn't agree more. That's exactly it.

[Mishke]

But he did also warn me about hanging around curling clubs. He says that's gonna get you on some sort of predator list.

[Two J's]

Yeah, you know, there's some unique characters there. You don't grow up wishing you play. You just kinda fall into it.

[Mishke]

Curling is all the way at the bottom in the world for most popular sports. Curling is the last. I mean, there are some stragglers below that, but there are too few participating for it to even make the list. But curling is at the bottom. And why do you think that is? Why do you think curling isn't as popular as, oh, I don't know, the NFL?

[Two J's]

Probably because, you know, everyone can't handle that. It's part of the culture to have a drink, you know, while you're playing and after the game as well.

[Mishke]

Well, that's also rugby. And rugby is way, way higher than curling.

[Two J's]

Where would you put soccer on that list? That would be towards the bottom.

[Mishke]

No, no, Way, way up. Worldwide. Way near the top. No, I think the problem.

[Two J's]

Really?

[Mishke]

Yeah. Where you been, pal? Soccer's huge on this planet. But let me ask you this. Don't you think the problem might be the stupid little bro sweeping and pushing on that ice, back and forth with the thing? What kind of a sport is that? Looks like you're trying to get a stain out of something. That's what it is. Moving that thing back and forth.

[Two J's]

Makes sense.

[Mishke]

Can I tell you the other problem with the sport? And this was a marketing disaster. Who the hell named it? Fire that guy. Curling sounds like a competition between your mother and her aunt on a Sunday morning before church. What the hell's that? It should have been called something like ice shuffleboard. Shuffle ice or ice board or it should have been called. That's what it should have been called. It should have been called. Imagine if a sport were called that. You know how many guys out there want to play a sport called.

[Two J's]

I think it would get a lot more attention. I think you're right.

[Mishke]

I tell you. Two Jays, I've enjoyed talking to you. What do you do for a living?

[Two J's]

2J'S work in CPG industry. I sell grocery products.

[Mishke]

Wait a minute. I don't understand that industry. How does that work?

[Two J's]

Somebody manufactures a product and they go to your favorite grocery retailer and you sell it to them, and then they sell it to you.

[Mishke]

So you have to impress people. You have to come in to a store and really get someone excited.

[Two J's]

That is right at the headquarter level.

[Mishke]

So give me your last pitch. The last time you had to pitch something to someone, I'm the corporate guy. You give me your pitch.

[Two J's]

I don't know if I can give away my secrets right now about that. You know, if I do that, then, you know, someone could take my secrets and use it against me here.

[Mishke]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the odds that you have an approach that someone's going to steal our slim.

[Two J's]

Maybe that's the secret sauce. Maybe that everyone has the same approach and everybody is doing the same thing. And then when somebody does something different.

[Mishke]

I actually do think you have a secret gift, and I think it's sincerity. I think you're just a straight shooting, decent soul.

[Two J's]

I've been told I'm very authentic and very monotone.

[Mishke]

You mean after you make your sales pitch, they say, you know, I just got to tell you, you're very straightforward, and you're also monotone as hell.

[Two J's]

That's right. I'm not a used car salesman coming in here trying to pull a fast one over you.

[Mishke]

Well, I expect to call you again sometime. I'm glad you offered yourself as someone I could call. I think that's a real gift that you gave the program, and I'm grateful.

[Two J's]

Anytime. I'll be around.

[Mishke]

Take care, two jays.

[Two J's]

Thanks, Mishke.

[Mishke]

This is the magic of it, people. I'm a happier man for making that call. I didn't see that guy coming. He was just another guy who offered his name. He made the list, the callers list. For those of you who don't know. I think it was the first show I let people know I wanted to have a list of listeners I could call randomly. And many, many people have contacted me, Texting me at 651321, 8949. That's 651321, 8949. They've texted me and they've said, hey, I'll be on the caller list. And I add them to my little phone book here. Then I just randomly call people. It was my way of getting around this whole crazy thing with podcasting where you don't have callers. Nuts to that noise. I said, who cares who made the call? The only thing I changed is the two seconds between me answering and saying hello or them answering and saying hello. Otherwise, it's the same thing. It's just a conversation and an unpredictable one. I don't know where we're going with it. I didn't know when I was in talk radio where the calls would go. I certainly didn't want him to go where the callers wanted him to go. No, no, no, no, no. I wanted to steer him someplace else, someplace none of us saw coming. That was the joy. The two Js didn't want to be J.J. that's too common. He's the two Js, and he will always be that. I don't need a new moniker for that guy. Two J's works just fine. That's going to about do it for this show, folks. Another week, another program. I'll be back in a week to do it all over again. Show comes out Friday night. A weekend show. Coming home from work on a Friday, you know, 6 o' clock that show's gonna post. There's that weekend. Find a spot during that relaxing stretch to take in an hour of mishko. There are worse ways to spend your time. You ever experienced Rolfing? You ever paid someone to go all Rolfing on you? That costs you money. And it's way, way harder on you than what I just put you through. And I'm free. Until next time. So long.