MISCHKE: Love, Life, & Murder

Summary

Garage Logic (Gamut Podcast Network)

Episode: MISCHKE: Love, Life, & Murder

Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Tommy Mischke

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Overview

In this episode, Tommy Mischke dives into the peculiarities of human connection, obsession, and the strange distinction between love and limerence, weaving his signature wit and dark humor through segments on relationships, existential quirks, and a shocking true crime story. The show blends musings on modern vocabulary, calls from listeners, and a chilling interview with a real-life murderer. Mischke’s conversational, offbeat style frames a journey from light-hearted wordplay to contemplations of human darkness and mortality, always with an eye to finding the wildly unique in ordinary life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What’s New? The Word “Limerence” ([02:06]–[10:38])

• Mischke’s Curiosity: Tommy opens by reflecting on the thrill of encountering something entirely new—here, the word "limerence," recently discovered despite decades in culture.
• Definition & Cultural Surge:
  • Limerence is defined as intense romantic infatuation and emotional dependence—different from mature, steady love.
  • Mischke humorously ponders why nobody warned him about limerence in his youth, or whether it’s a new generational phenomenon, quipping about fake terms like “Glock Florkin.”
• Memorable Satire: Mischke transforms the topic into a comedic limerick contest and ad spoofs:
  • “Limerence by L’Oreal – for radiant hair, smooth as silk. Limerence: you took that word from an ad, didn’t you, dad?” ([07:57])

Notable Quotes

• Tommy Mischke:
  “When I was growing up, was no one getting limerence? No one talked about limerence, but the term was out there. It's been around since the 70s.” ([04:21])
• On fatherly advice:
  "Had he done that, I think I would have said, what the heck are you talking about, Dad?" ([05:16])

2. Limerence vs. Love: Expert & Satire ([10:38]–[15:50])

• Relationship Expert Segment: Offers practical tips for distinguishing love from limerence, such as checking if one is editing reality to fit fantasy and willing to see “red lights” in a relationship.
• Mischke’s Satirical Role-Play:
  • Tommy adopts a persona comically blind to a partner’s flaws, using exaggerated hypotheticals (“she walks with her feet above the ground...she’s actually a hairstylist at Great Clips with a meth addiction.”) ([12:34])
  • Self-aware parody of ignoring deal-breakers (“she’s polyamorous...I just said, la la la, la la, la, I don’t want to hear that.”) ([13:46])

Notable Quotes

• Relationship Expert:
  "Someone developing limerence is likely to strategically select pieces of information that fits their fantasy...and unconsciously reject all evidence that does not fit." ([11:48])
• Mischke:
  “I know what you’re thinking. Limerence. You’re probably right. But I have asked her to marry me. She said she’d have the team in her bunker get back to me on that.” ([14:57])

3. From Limerence to Murder: The Chilling Turn ([21:00]–[31:12])

• Listener Call: Ryan
  • Mischke jokingly ponders the odds of O.J. Simpson’s innocence, leading to reflections on how one never truly knows anyone.
  • Segues into Mischke’s reflections on interviewing a real-life murderer, emphasizing the ordinariness of the perpetrator.
• Carl’s Story (Murderer Interviewee)
  • Carl gives a first-person account of the planning and execution of a brutal murder during a robbery—a story initially inspired by a scene from “New Jack City.”
  • He details the psychological disconnect, physicality, and aftermath with chilling directness ([28:37]–[34:46]).

Notable Quotes

• Mischke:
  "You could be a murderer, and even if you’re not right now, you could be in the future. It’s just creepy as hell..." ([21:51])
  • "You think you have folks figured out, but we don’t have anyone figured out. Not really. None of us." ([26:36])
• Carl:
  "My co-defendant paused that scene on his VCR and... said, 'Carl, that's how you gotta do it.' Because I really had no idea... I was aiming for his neck... he pleaded with me, 'No, Carl, no.' But at that point... I just felt like I had to continue. It was reported that I stabbed him in excess of 67 times." ([28:37])
• Carl:
  “I felt this—I felt like a physical force grab me by my shoulder and spin me around as if to say, look what you’ve done.” ([32:39])

4. Murder, Media, and Dark Fascinations ([35:02]–[37:56])

• O.J. Simpson & Crime Scene Obsession:
  Mischke and Ryan muse on who might live at the site of the infamous murder now, the peculiar draw of crime scenes, and conspiracy theories (e.g., "We pegged Judge Ito as the murderer," [36:53]).

Notable Quotes

• Mischke:
  "Am I just another one of those people? Needed to be close to the crime. For some reason, some dark part of me needed to feel that radiant heat from the crime scene." ([35:19])
• Ryan:
  "There’s a conspiracy about every major murder, I’m sure, even the one you’re going to commit later in life." ([37:40])

5. The Joys and Ironies of Aging ([41:25]–[51:25])

• Listener Call: Perry (Retired Listener)
  • Mischke discusses the routines of retirement and the search for meaning or magical moments late in life.
  • Perry reminisces about a magical, drunken night in Greece, leading to Mischke’s diatribe against the modern focus on health and moderation.
  • Mischke lampoons contemporary health advice and reflects on mortality’s trade-offs: living longer vs. living fully.

Notable Quotes

• Mischke:
  "There's a conundrum in life... there's a way to live that's taking care of your health full time. And then there's having magical moments before it's all over, my friend. Before you're a corpse in a cemetery..." ([44:18])
  • “All the wondrous things are bad for you. There’s a way to live to be 90...that’s doing a bunch of things that just plain aren’t no fun. No fun at all.” ([46:35])
• Peer Reflection
  Mischke quips about being named Hortense: “You generally reserve the best name...for that first kid, the name you love more than all others. And this poor woman was given the name Hortense. And I don’t think it’s coincidental that she never married.” ([49:15])

6. On Interviewing the Uniquely Extraordinary ([51:29]–End)

• Sui Generis Appeal:
  Mischke describes his desire to interview those “of their own kind”—people whose life stories truly can’t be categorized, asking listeners to connect him with such individuals.

Notable Quotes

• Mischke:
  “I spent 11 years when I was doing the roadshow looking under rocks, down alleys, behind abandoned buildings, looking for people who I wouldn’t normally come across without someone recommending them to me... wild unusual, different, interesting, eccentric, they’re extraordinary iconoclasts.” ([51:29])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [02:06] Tommy discovers “limerence”—definitions, humor, and comic riffs
• [10:38] Relationship expert explains limerence vs. real love; Mischke's satirical scenarios
• [21:00] Listener Ryan call: The unknowability of people, segue to murder story
• [28:37] First-hand account from Carl, the murderer—details of planning, murder, aftermath
• [35:02] O.J. Simpson speculation, the dark allure of crime scenes
• [41:25] Retired listener Perry: Joys and absurdity of aging, "magical" drunken night in Greece, reflections on health and mortality
• [51:29] Mischke on interviewing original, unique people—call for recommendations

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Memorable Moments

• Comic riffing on “limerence” as a shampoo brand ([07:57]):
  “Limerence by L’Oreal—for radiant hair, smooth as silk. You are worth it.”
• Darkly funny limerick about limerence ([08:30]):
  “A girl, puzzled by his adoration, asked him if this was infatuation... Might limerence be the explanation?”
• Raw true crime revelation ([28:37]):
  Carl’s matter-of-fact delivery about committing murder shocks with its ordinariness and detail.
• Reflection on health vs. enjoyment of vices ([46:04]):
  Mischke lists everything he loves that's "bad" for him—cookies, sitting, tobacco—and rails against a joyless life of abstention.
• Naming and destiny ([49:15]):
  Mischke’s meditations on why anyone would name a child "Hortense" and its impact.

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Show Tone & Language

Mischke’s quirky, rambling, heartfelt and often irreverent tone pervades the episode. From gleeful puns to grim crime tales, the show jumps registers but always circles back to the messy wonder and darkness of real life. He mixes improvisational riffs with honest, vulnerable reflection, keeping listeners off-balance but engaged.

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Final Impression

This episode of Garage Logic journeys from the comic absurdity of modern love to the grim reality of premeditated murder, all under Mischke's unique lens of curiosity and dark whimsy. The result is both thought-provoking and deeply entertaining—a challenge to find sense and magic in the mess, and to seek out the sui generis in everyday life.

Transcript

[Tommy Mischke]

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[Tommy Mischke]

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[Tommy Mischke]

Anything new that you've been coming across of late? Have you been stumbling upon anything that is utterly new and fresh? What is that? I'd like to hear about that. My name is Mishke. I'm curious to know if you folks have been out in the world and have come upon either through a conversation or something you yourself just stumbled upon, discovered something that is wholly new, just something you've never encountered before, didn't anticipate encountering? Boy, that's when life gets interesting, huh? What is that for you? What have you seen? What have you done what have you encountered? What have you come across? I'd like to know about it. I came across something in the last few days, something I've never come across before and, oh, am I itching to tell you about it. That's what I like about our little time together here, this ability to pass along to you something I've discovered that you may or may not know about. I obviously don't think you know about it or. Or I wouldn't be this excited. So what did I come across? Well, I've been stumbling upon some news stories, some articles, some culture pieces, some various items in the media that mention a word I've never heard before and I've been around a while. Limerance. Now, you could say to yourself, there are probably lots of words out there that many of us haven't come across. But here's the deal. Limerence is all over these days. You can find it everywhere. I'm not kidding. If you spend as much time with the media as I do, limerence is popping up left and right. Once I came upon it, I went looking and I saw it everywhere. It's a very popular term right now, limerence. Do you know this term? It's been around for decades. Decades. I don't know how I missed it. Sure, people are talking about it more now, but it's been around for decades. And why it's popping up so much now is beyond me. I think it has something to do with younger generations who are out there looking for relationships, hoping for love, and instead of love, finding limerence. When you go out looking for love, sometimes, instead you can get limerence. Now, you wanted love, I get it, we all do. But you got limerence. And you're saying, wait a minute, why did I get that? I don't even know what that is. How'd I get it? I hear you. How did you get limerence? And why? When I was growing up, was no one getting limerence. No one talked about limerence, but the term was out there. It's been around since the 70s. Limerence. The story goes, people are out looking to find a partner, a mate, someone to spend the rest of their life with, and they're hoping to fall in love. And instead of falling in love, well, they end up with limerence, which isn't love, apparently. Limerence is this state of intense romantic infatuation, obsession, kind of an emotional dependence characterized by thoughts of idealizing the other person. It differs from mature love, anyway. It's a little bit more unstable. You're not really standing solidly on the ground. You're in la la land a little bit. It's limerence, not love. Well, I never heard this term before this last week. How did I miss it? How did I get into my 60s without having come across it once? I try to keep up, I do. I read books, I read newspapers, magazines. I've been to college. Yes, I went there. And I said, take this head full of mush and get me thinking like a. Like a. Like a podcaster. How is it that after all these years, I can learn of something so fundamental for the first time? The idea that a lot of people claiming to be falling in love out there are in fact not dealing with love at all, they're just dealing with limerence. When I fell in love as a young man, the old man never pulled me aside to say, are you sure it's love, Tommy boy? Might it not be limerence? Had he done that, I think I would have said, what the heck are you talking about, dad? What did you just say? Are you making up a word just to keep me from getting married so that I'll spend more time with you and Ma? Did you just make up a word thinking you could fool me into questioning my entire relationship with my fiance? Hey, dad, maybe I should question you and Mom's relationship, huh? I can make up words too. Are you sure you two were meant to spend your entire lives together? Or might this be that thing that they call. What do they call it? Glock Florkin. Glock Florkin. Which is a relationship intended to last just 30 years and then end, making room for another long term relationship. Glock Florkin is a phenomenon that was first identified by Theodore Glock and Carl Florkin, researchers at the University of Florida. They learned that certain relationships are intended for a long stretch, but not for one's entire life. These relationships are best when kept to a 30 year run, followed by a quick ending and a new relationship that will then be equally intense. Pop, I gotta tell you, I think you and mom are Glock Florkens. I know mom is. She planned on 30 years with you and 30 years with a mailman. Now you hold on a minute there, son. Where the devil are you coming up with this? Well, where are you coming up with limerence? Dad? That sounds pretty out there. I've heard some made up terms in my life, but come on. Limerence. Seriously, that sounds like a new women's hair treatment. Something you use right after shampooing. Limerence by l' Oreal for radiant hair. Smooth as silk. Limerence you took that word from an ad, didn't you, dad? From an ad you saw in Mom's women's magazines? Sure you did. Why don't you just say you don't care for my gal pop? That you were hoping I'd stick around to help you and mom with the lawn mowing and the snow shoveling? Just be straight with me, dad. Don't reach for that limerence crap. Limerence? Is that word supposed to sound so much like limerick? If you recite a lot of limericks, are you in the limerence world? A girl, puzzled by his adoration, asked him if this was infatuation. She said, it sure can't be love, my sweet turtle dove. Might limerence be the explanation? The boy said, that is absurd. No greater insult have I heard. And as his heart sank, he said, well, to be frank, I'm not sure I've ever heard of that word. And the girl, she just had a fit. She said, God, you are such a twit. And as he was reprimanded, she said, to be candid, I've not heard that term either, I admit. And he said, well, that's sure pretty low. Using a word that you don't even know, Are you going to confess or should I just guess? You heard it on Tom Mishke's show. And she said, yeah, I just heard it today. And I was looking for some clever way to employ the new word that I only now heard, and I got a little carried away. I employed it to your dismay, but, hell, it was sure fun to say limerence, Limerence, limerence, limerence. By l', oreal, because you're worth it. You are worth it.

[Relationship Expert]

I wanted to address what the difference is between compatibility versus limerence. Between the feeling of meeting someone who you are super compatible with and excited about versus limerence Territory. You might want to ask yourself, if you know that you are someone who is prone to limerence, to distinguish whether you are just happy about a new relationship or a new prospect, or whether a developing crush is kind of falling into limerence territory.

[Tommy Mischke]

Well, I just met this gal last week, but I'm absolutely smitten. Golly, she's everything I've ever wanted in a woman. I think of her as a kind of. Well, as a kind of princess. No, no. More of a. Of a deity, maybe. I don't know. Maybe something in between. She walks with her feet above the ground, though. I tell you, she is an absolute enchantress. I marvel at her complete absence, flaws, the way her skin seems to Almost shimmer, as if some angelic figure brought her to earth, brought her here to save me. Does this sound strange to you, knowing we just met a few days ago?

[Relationship Expert]

When we first meet someone who we have a romantic interest in, it is of course, natural to fill in a few of the blanks with fantasy and to do a little bit of imagining around what it might look like to be with that person. But when we have a crush on someone, it's often because we don't know that much about them yet and we're thinking about them in a very favorable way. Now, the main difference here is that someone developing limerence is likely to strategically select pieces of information that fits their fantasy around that person and unconsciously reject all evidence that does not fit their fantasy of that person. So question number one. How big is the gap between the way that you think of your relationship in your mind versus the relationship that exists with this person in reality?

[Tommy Mischke]

Well, in my mind, we are soul mates, living as if we share the very same brain, the very same heart. Our thoughts are one, our hearts are one, and our souls. Our souls seem to have been created from the same majestic, divine silk that God used to fashion the first ethereal beings in this universe. As for the reality, well, she's actually a hairstylist at Great Clips with a meth addiction. I stopped by for a haircut on a Saturday afternoon and just thought she had a great ass. Anyway, I asked her out and she said she'd tolerate me as long as her boyfriend was away in the Marines, but as soon as he comes home on leave, I guess I'm out of here.

[Relationship Expert]

Question number two, to ask yourself if you're trying to figure out, is this limerence or is it true love? As you're getting to know someone, particularly in the early stages, ask yourself, am I genuinely open to finding out information about this person that would disqualify them as a good romantic partner for me, or am I kind of putting my blinders on and only seeing what I want to see about this person?

[Tommy Mischke]

Well, she told me she's polyamorous and that most men she dates need to know that there will be a lot of people coming and going in the old bedroom. And I just said, la, la, la, la, la. I don't want to hear that. You know what I'm saying? Regardless, she said, not one of those lovers coming and going is going to achieve the level of status that she reserves for her Labrador, Big Bill. She says all her love interests must respect that her passion for her dog comes first. I told her I'm just going to pretend she didn't say that or that she said it. But she said it in German and I didn't understand it. What do you think?

[Relationship Expert]

There is this staying in reality and noticing green lights while paying equal attention to red and yellow lights.

[Tommy Mischke]

Well, the one red light that I keep seeing is the one signaling we're in the red light district, which is her neighborhood. The green light is the one she flips on above her bedroom door when some romantic partner is finished and a new one can be allowed in.

[Relationship Expert]

Third question to ask yourself if you're trying to root out whether this is limerence or love, am I aware of potential problems as well as non delusional means of solving those problems?

[Tommy Mischke]

Well, yeah, there are potential problems. I'm allergic to dogs. But I thought one way to address that would be to meditate and visualize her dog turning into a taxidermied wall hanging. She wouldn't have to know how it happened. We also have the issue of her demanding I wear full body latex on Weird Wednesday. I was gonna see if I could just get away with a V neck sweater and khakis, but that might be a stretch with this one. I know. I know what you're thinking. Limerence. You're probably right. But I have asked her to marry me. She said she'd have the team in her bunker. Get back to me on that. Maybe by the weekend. They're doing war games all this week at Kink Fest. Do you know about that?

[Relationship Expert]

Limerence, Limerence, Limerence, limerence, limerence, limerence. Territory.

[Tommy Mischke]

You ever have that experience where you buy a car and you're driving home and it just feels icky? Not the car. What feels icky is the people you dealt with. There were just some weird things going on there. The sales guy was smarmy. He sent you to his manager. That felt weird. During the paperwork process, something was wonky. There was something oily about the crew. Sure, the car's the car, but you don't feel like ever dealing with them again. That's what I mean when I say feel good about where you buy your next automobile. When I'm doing Fury Motors ads, after you buy a car from Fury, you not only feel good about the car you got because they made sure to get you the right car, the right car for what you needed, what you wanted. They really asked a lot of questions. And before they recommended one of their cars. More than that, though, they seem to be buying a car with you as if they were buying it Themselves for themselves. Fury Motors stop into one of their four locations.

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[Tommy Mischke]

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[Listener Ryan]

Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. The person you're trying to reach is not available. At the tone, please record your message.

[Tommy Mischke]

What kind of a voice is that? I don't know that I've heard that exact voice before in an outgoing message. It's rather androgynous. I don't know if I'm talking to a man or a woman, and I'd like to know before I go any further. What's your name? Terry. That doesn't clear it up at all. Say something again. I want to get a handle on whether you're male or female. I don't know why. I just feel it would help me picking the right tone before I go further. Say something.

[Listener Ryan]

The person you're trying to reach is not available.

[Tommy Mischke]

Oh, God. I can't figure it out. You say Your name's Terry. All right, one more time. Give me something.

[Listener Ryan]

Your call has been forwarded to voicemail.

[Tommy Mischke]

One more time.

[Listener Ryan]

Voicemail.

[Tommy Mischke]

One more time.

[Listener Ryan]

Voicemail. Hello?

[Tommy Mischke]

Well, Ryan.

[Listener Ryan]

Yes, sir?

[Tommy Mischke]

What are the odds?

[Listener Ryan]

1 in 10,000.

[Tommy Mischke]

Aren't you gonna ask me? The odds of what? I mean, the odds that O.J. was innocent.

[Listener Ryan]

I have no answer to that.

[Tommy Mischke]

What if, just between you and me, what if he was innocent? They seem to have given up on going after anyone else. But what if. What if he was innocent? And here's my case for his innocence. Are you ready? He was a football player for years, and then an announcer and an actor. Does that sound like a murderer to you?

[Listener Ryan]

You know, it kind of does.

[Tommy Mischke]

That's the thing about murderers. So often after the murder, people make a statement like this. Just goes to show you, you never really know anybody. Truly not really.

[Listener Ryan]

I think you're right.

[Tommy Mischke]

Which leads me to believe you could be a murderer. And even if you're not, right now, you could be in the future. And it's just creepy as hell to me that I'm talking to a guy who could kill someone. And I'm thinking, cold blood. I don't even think it's going to be a crime of passion. I think you're going to plan it out over weeks and you're going to go through it as if you were born to do this. It's just going to leave me feeling so badly about our call now and about the fact that you're one of my listeners.

[Listener Ryan]

I don't even know where to go with that.

[Tommy Mischke]

But you're not denying the possibility, are you?

[Listener Ryan]

I would like to think I would come up with a much better solution.

[Tommy Mischke]

We all like to think that. We all like to think that. All of us do. Yeah, I get it. You want to think well of yourself and I want to think well of you. I'm not going to be able to on this call, however. Do you know I interviewed a fellow who murdered somebody. One time I interviewed a guy who murdered somebody. And it's strange to talk to a guy who has murdered someone. And I mean, he murdered this person in cold blood. It was not a crime of passion, it was planned. And what's so horrific about it? As if you need anything more horrific. This was a friend of his. The guy worked at one of these check cashing operations, you know, these little outlets where you can bring a check and get it cashed. I never understand quite what's going on there, do you?

[Listener Ryan]

Big rip offs. Why not go to a bank Maybe

[Tommy Mischke]

because the bank would never cash that check. Which makes you wonder about the check the way I wonder about your morals. Forget about why there are check cashing places. The fact is, this guy was working at a check cashing place in Minneapolis, and this fella who I interviewed planned to not only go rob him, but to kill him first. Planned it with another guy. It was the other guy's idea. But he talked this person I interviewed into joining him and talked him into being the one to actually handle the murder. The guy whose idea it was was going to grab the money. But the guy I interviewed was supposed to be the guy who killed this person in cold blood. With a knife. With a knife. This person I interviewed had never committed any serious crime in his life. There was nothing about him that said he should be capable of murder. He was a successful artist. He had art of his in national magazines. He had done several covers for City Pages, the alternative news and arts publication in the Twin Cities. He was estranged from his wife, but he had a son, a little boy. He had picked up a drug habit, and he owed some tax money that he hadn't paid. So he was having some financial troubles, and the IRS was coming after him. Okay, I can see coming up possibly with a way to get some money real quickly, maybe robbing someone, but this was a planned murder. The guy who came up with the idea said, we gotta kill him. We can't just get the money. He'll know us. He'll see us. He knows who we are. We have to kill him. And he said to the guy I interviewed, you gotta do it. And they watched some Wesley Snipes movie ahead of time, and it showed a guy killing someone, slitting his throat. And the guy whose idea it was to do this crime said, that's the way you got to do it. That's the way you got to kill this guy. And they drove over there and they murdered him. I was interviewing this guy after he got out of prison. So he served time, Stillwater Prison, did all his time there, got out on parole, and I interviewed him. And I only interviewed him because another fella I had interviewed had told me about this guy. And I said, well, what's so special about this guy? And he said, well, there are some hotshots in Hollywood, some celebrities who are buying this guy's art, paying big bucks to buy this guy's art. And he's a murderer in a cell in Stillwater, getting out soon. And people from Hollywood fly in, visit him, buy his art. I said, really? Okay, I'd like to visit with this guy, find out what this is all about. And we talked about his life. But when we got to the part where this guy committed the murder, I just had shivers. I had shivers. Hair on the back of my neck stood up. And I thought to myself, am I right now in danger? There's a feeling, funny feeling, when you're talking to someone who has murdered someone, that once they've crossed that line, anything's possible. I had those thoughts to start out.

[Listener Ryan]

With a knife. That's a brutal way to start your career.

[Tommy Mischke]

As brutal as it gets. If you could have heard how this guy's entire life went, nothing, absolutely nothing, would have got you thinking this was even possible, that he could be capable of anything close to this. Which again, got me thinking that you don't know anybody and you don't know what it is that can lead people to do something like this. You think you have folks figured out, but we don't have anyone figured out. Not really. None of us. Carl, the gentleman I interviewed, put on a pair of sunglasses. He didn't want his emotions to be read. And he went in and he had the knife in his pocket. And apparently they used to stop by and visit this guy routinely and just sit around, talk, listen to music. So it was a real comfortable environment and he was allowed in, but he wasn't his usual jovial self. And the guy inside this check cashing operation picked up on that, that there was something off about Carl. And the guy who planned the crime, who came up with the crime, signaled to Carl, come on, get on with it. Now's the time. Get him. While you do that, I'll get the money. And even interviewing him, I couldn't believe he was going to do it. I knew he had committed the crime. This was already at the end of his prison sentence. But even hearing the story, I said to myself, you're not actually going to do this, are you? You're not actually going to follow through with this. And again, he did. And he did so in a way that was just as brutal as anything you'll ever hear. And you have to say to yourself, if that's in that guy, if somewhere in that body, that soul, that heart was that crime, then that's got to be in darn near everyone, because nothing about it up till then made sense. Nothing. Very successful man in this world, Very well liked man, known by a lot of people, very friendly guy.

[Carl (Murderer Interviewee)]

We were sitting at his home watching New Jack City, and there's a scene where Wesley Snipes, the Star of the movie comes up behind someone and just slices his throat and the guy just falls over. My co defendant paused that scene on his VCR and then rewound it and played it again. And then he paused it again. He said, carl, that's how you gotta do it. Because I really had no idea. I'm just a ball of nerves inside because I know what we're there for and I've never done anything like this. At one point, my victim got up to put on some music. He gave me that look like, carl, you're not as talkative and joking and so forth. Why aren't you your normal usual self? I was wearing sunglasses. I had a friend who coached tennis and. And he said he wore sunglasses because he didn't want his opponent to see his eyes. He wanted to be as much like a machine as he could be. I couldn't let him see whatever emotion I might have been going through. And I was thinking that the neck would be like my target. He's leaning into the CD player and about to put in a cd. And my co defendant, he's making motions like, what are you waiting for? I had the knife in my pocket and when I actually lunged at him, I was aiming for his neck. And that was the first puncture wound side of his neck. And then right away, I think he knew what was happening. And he said, he pleaded with me. No, Carl, no. But at that point, I mean, that's the worst I'd ever done with anybody. And I just felt like I had to continue. It was reported that I stabbed him in excess of 67 times. I remember replaying that scene in the movie. Well, people don't just fall over and die, they fight for their lives.

[Tommy Mischke]

And is your memory that it took that many to get him to where he was no longer fighting for his life?

[Carl (Murderer Interviewee)]

There was no one wound that was fatal. He subsequently died of blood loss because he was punctured so many times and he was struggling. So his heart is pumping and he's losing blood and there's blood all over the place. The knife slipped through my hands and I got cut. So now my DNA is on the scene. At that point, my co defendant went to the business of collecting money. And at one point I remember him standing over me and I'm standing over my victim and I see that he's got a box in his hand with cash and he's telling me, you gotta finish him, you gotta finish him. It was so alien to me to do that. And then he asked me for my keys. So that he could bring the car around to the end of the building, end of the strip mall. And I said, I don't know. I dropped them in the process of struggling with my victim. And he found the keys, made his way out the back door. And I remember after he left the building, I was there alone with the victim. And the back door is wide open. The floor is covered in blood. I'm covered in blood. I'm exhausted. It seemed like an eternity when it was happening, but I know it wasn't but a short time. And I left him on the floor, laying on his left side, pretty much in a fetal position. His knees were bent, and he was in a fetal position on his left side. And I made my way to exit through the back door. And I felt this. I felt like a physical force grab me by my shoulder and spin me around as if to say, look what you've done. And I remember standing in that doorway, and I could hear his last breath amplified. It felt amplified in that room, like someone had plugged him into an amplifier and turned up the volume. When I did leave a standard to the far end of that strip mall, managed to get home covered in blood. I showered. It was getting to a point where I had to go and pick up my son from daycare. He certainly didn't deserve to grow up without a father, but that was his reality, just like prison was mine.

[Tommy Mischke]

I didn't know we'd go down this road.

[Listener Ryan]

I certainly didn't either. Interesting you brought up OJ to start with, because I am visiting family in Los Angeles, so I'm probably not far from where O.J. was doing his famous white Bronco run.

[Tommy Mischke]

You might be close to the crime scene itself.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

That's possible.

[Tommy Mischke]

875 South Bundy Drive, Brentwood. There it will be. I wonder who lives today in 875 S Bundy Dr, Brentwood.

[Listener Ryan]

I wonder if anyone lives there.

[Tommy Mischke]

Let's see. The townhouse has since been remodeled and the address has been changed to avoid the stigma. So they changed it, and then they tell you what they changed it to. So it's now 879South Bundy, and it was sold in 2006 for 1.72 million and remains a private residence. Who lives there? Who lives at 879 South Bundy? And how often do they walk outside the door and go to the spot where she breathed her last and say to themselves, what kind of sick individuals would feel the need to buy this place, of all places? What's wrong with me? What is wrong with me? Am I just another one of those people? Needed to be close to the crime. For some reason, some dark part of me needed to feel that radiant heat from the crime scene. Maybe I had OJ's football card when I was a kid, from his days with the Buffalo bills. Good old 32, maybe. I'm struggling with the fact that he had that in him. And if he had that in him, what do I have in me? And I come out every night and stand here and I look up at the stars and I say, is that darkness in me? Is it God? Is it?

[Listener Ryan]

Or maybe if OJ was actually innocent, this is the guy that did it.

[Tommy Mischke]

They say they always return to the scene of the crime. You just nailed it. Whoever bought that and changed the address is the killer.

[Listener Ryan]

There you go.

[Tommy Mischke]

And OJ swore he'd spend the rest of his days trying to find the real killer. But he didn't put a lot of effort into chasing after that guy. I'm wondering why. No, he put in so little effort. That's what really threw me. I kept saying to my wife, he's on the golf course again. I will say that in my family, we pegged Judge Ito as the murderer. He just seemed to be a little too fair minded for our tastes. As he handled that trial, I'd turn periodically to an uncle or an aunt, and I'd say, that guy looked guilty to you. And they'd say, I think he could still see blood under his fingernails if you look closely. No, I think Judge Ito did it. And I'm not alone. You can look that up on the Internet. A lot of people think he did it. Just like people think Jackie Onassis killed jfk.

[Listener Ryan]

There's a conspiracy about every major murder,

[Tommy Mischke]

I'm sure, even the one you're going to commit later in life. All we know is right now, you don't see that in you. And so it's going to be a shocker both to you and your family, but not to me. I saw it the first time you answered the phone. I said, what is going on here? What are these weird vibes I'm getting off this guy? Well, on that note, I'll let you go.

[Listener Ryan]

All right, great talking to you.

[Carl (Murderer Interviewee)]

Bye.

[Tommy Mischke]

Bye. A fellow owns a business. He's in his 50s, thinking about retirement, in his mid-60s, thinks he's got everything the way it should be. But he puts in a call to Josh. Arnold talks to Josh for 50 minutes. Afterward, he realizes, Wait a minute. He said three things that were important that I'm glad I heard another five things. He said I already knew, but those three things matter, and they're gonna make a difference and they're gonna make life a lot easier for me at retirement. I am damn glad I made that call and it didn't cost me a penny. It's an extraordinary service Josh is offering. 50 minutes on the phone, free of charge. 952-925. 5608.

Investment services offered by Josh Arnold, investment consultant, LLC. A security and investment advisor. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All investments involve risk. Tommy Mischke is a paid endorser.

[MacKenzie (GoFundMe Organizer)]

My name is MacKenzie and I started to go fund me for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.

[Relationship Expert]

GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising

[Tommy Mischke]

platform, trusted by over 200 million people.

[Relationship Expert]

Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

[Tommy Mischke]

North American banking company could grow into something enormous if it wanted to. They don't want to. They have six Twin Cities locations. That's it. And they like it. Because the people who started this bank, they had a theory that the best banking relationship is one where your banker actually knows you, knows your business, knows your neighborhood, knows the area, knows the community and can say yes to a loan because they understand context, not just credit scores. The giant national banks are very good at being giant North American banking company isn't trying to compete with that. They're competing for something different. Your trust. The kind of relationship where you actually look forward to walking into your bank because it feels like banks used to feel it's still there. Folks, you just gotta move from your big giant soulless bank to over to North American banking Company member fdic Equal housing lender.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Good afternoon.

[Tommy Mischke]

Hello there, Perry. Tommy, what am I catching you doing?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Catching up on some email and relaxing at home.

[Tommy Mischke]

Have you and I ever spoken?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

A long time ago. Back in the Don Vogel days.

[Tommy Mischke]

Oh, God. You're not gonna sit there relaxing at home, catching up on emails and tell me you recall a phone conversation from the Vogel days?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

It was hard to forget.

[Tommy Mischke]

What do you do with your life, Perry?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Now that I'm retired, You waste it some days. But most days I just do whatever I want.

[Tommy Mischke]

So you get up in the morning, sort of like a 12 year old kid on a Saturday, and you just do whatever the hell you want to do?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mischke]

So say it is a Saturday and you're waking up and you know the world's your oyster. Give me a sense of what the day might look like.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Well, if it's Saturday, what does it

[Tommy Mischke]

matter to you what day it is?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Every day's a Saturday.

[Tommy Mischke]

Exactly. So don't bring up Saturday. I brought up Saturday. You don't bring up Saturday.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

I've found that my full time occupation is now taking care of my health and trying to visit our grandchildren as much as possible.

[Tommy Mischke]

What a nightmare existence. You mean to tell me that's all I got to look forward to? Taking care of my health full time and going back to kids? After having already raised kids, I have to go back into that world. Unless you took care of everything, everything you wanted to and needed to in the years leading up till now, you have a very few short years left to take care of the things you never got to. And those things are not your health and your grandkids. There was plenty you missed in those decades, plenty you would have attended to, but there wasn't time. Now the sands in the hourglass are falling fast. What do you want to do with this life of yours?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Travel. We've been doing a fair amount of traveling.

[Tommy Mischke]

And where have you gone?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Greece.

[Tommy Mischke]

What was the most magical moment in that whole trip?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Drinking too much rocky in a Bayside restaurant. So when you finish drinking, instead of ouzo, which you get more on the mainland, in Crete, they serve you home brew called Rocky. And the more you drink, the more they bring you. And so that was a memorable night. We had lots of laughter and telling stories with the locals, and it was a very memorable evening.

[Tommy Mischke]

And remember, I said magical. So not just memorable, magical. Think for a moment about what's going on here. You went to Greece, this famous ancient old world, not a place you're probably ever going to get to again. That was probably your one and only trip. And the most magical night was a night when you got drunk.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

True.

[Tommy Mischke]

Let's think about this. Sometimes it's important to pass this along to the temperance movement folks out there. These are the people out there trying to get the world to stop drinking because drinking is bad for you. All the doctors now say it's not drink in moderation, it's stop altogether. Now you're reporting not only not stopping, but skipping over moderation and having a magical, magical time. Inebriated. We need to look at this and here's why. There's a conundrum in life. There's a real conundrum in this world. There's a way to live that's taking care of your health full time. And then there's having magical moments before it's all over, my friend. Before you're a corpse in a cemetery, in the dark underground, rotting. Now there are people out there would say if you're going to take care of your health full time and live a long life, you don't want to have those magical moments. No, no. Have those boring, mundane, blase moments that'll keep you around to 90 years of age. What a racket.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

It is a racket.

[Tommy Mischke]

Let me tell you what I like to do. I like to sit. Sitting, I'm told, is the new smoking. I like sitting a whole bunch. I sit when I read. I sit when I have a glass of wine. I sit when I play piano. I sit when I visit with people. I like sitting. Apparently I'm killing myself. Here's something else I like. I like cookies. I really like cookies. You like cookies?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Yeah, I enjoy cookies.

[Tommy Mischke]

Yeah, I do too. I like cookies. They're bad for you. I also like to drink. I like alcohol. I enjoy a drink. And I actually like to have a couple of them sometimes. And sometimes I go for the full on magical moment. Now, what else do I like? Tobacco. Do I smoke every day? No, every now and then. I like to have a cigar though. That's bad for you. Probably give you lip cancer. What else do I like? All the things that are bad for you is what I like. All the horrible things the devil may have made this earth, we don't know. He created a world where all the wondrous things are bad for you. There's a way to live. To be 90 and just keel over one day having lived a long, healthy life and that's doing a bunch of things that just plain aren't no fun. No fun at all.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

That doesn't sound very enjoyable.

[Tommy Mischke]

Nope. I could go to a baseball game and have a lemonade. Wouldn't enjoy it. Nope. But when I sit at a ball game and I take one count em, one sip of beer. One sip of beer, one Sip, one sip, one sip, one sip, one sip in the sunshine, instantly, I am happy. Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to be happy, said Ben Franklin. Where did he get that? Must have had some kind of mystical experience. Did he meditate? I don't know. Was he in church? One day, but he got that message somehow. He wouldn't make it up. He was an honorable man.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Did he do yoga?

[Tommy Mischke]

You know, I don't think Ben even knew what yoga was. I don't even think he stretched, really. I don't think people stretched back then. They didn't understand stretching. I think they got up in the morning, said to themselves, I have absolutely no idea what makes for a long, healthy life. We have no information on that at all. So let's wing it, boys. Ready? On three. One, two, three. What prompted mom and dad to name you Perry?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

They actually had some close friends who had named their son Perry, and they liked the name. So being the firstborn, I received the same name as their friend's oldest son.

[Tommy Mischke]

Do you think when parents name the firstborn that they're generally going with their favorite name, the name they love above all all other names? It's their firstborn, so they're picking their favorite name. They don't know how many more kids they're going to have. But let's use this great name that we love on this first child. Do you think that's very common?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

I think so.

[Tommy Mischke]

I think that as well, which is why I struggle with the fact that my grandmother, my mother's mother, gave to her firstborn the name Hortense.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

What?

[Tommy Mischke]

My mother's oldest sister, the firstborn in that family, was given the name Hortense. Again, you generally reserve the best name going for that first kid, the name that you love more than all others. And this poor woman was given the name Hortense. And I don't think it's coincidental that she never married.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Tough one to recover from. Did she have a nickname? Horticultural.

[Tommy Mischke]

I was young when my grandmother died. I didn't get a chance to ask her. I would have liked to have asked her. I never met my grandfather. He was dead before I was born, so I couldn't ask him either. But I would love to know the reasoning because I also have been convinced that your favorite name is the one you give the firstborn.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Yeah.

[Tommy Mischke]

You also have to keep in mind they're looking at a beautiful little baby. So you're looking at this baby, cute, beautiful, little pink and white child, and you're going with this name that sounds like it potentially could have been the name of Himmler's Rottweiler. Did they say, oh, it looks like a Hortense. Look, it looks like a Hortense. It's got a contusion and a horn. And what is that bubbling out of the side of the head? I struggle with it and I'm never going to get my answer. Everyone in the family is dead now. My grandmother had 10 kids and my mom was the last one to go. She's gone. They're all gone.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

It will be a mystery wrapped in

[Tommy Mischke]

an enigma, surrounded by a puzzle. Well, I appreciate visiting with you. I'm glad you answered the phone. I was just randomly calling folks from the listener list, thought I'd see if you were around. Sounds like you're going to be around

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

plenty because I'm taking care of my health.

[Tommy Mischke]

Taking care of your health and catching up on emails. Do you have another trip planned?

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

To Guatemala.

[Tommy Mischke]

Guatemala. I wonder what the magical moment is going to be from that trip.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

I'll send you a picture.

[Tommy Mischke]

Don't send it till you sober up. You might end up sending it to the wrong person. Good talking to you, Perry.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Yeah, likewise. Take care.

[Tommy Mischke]

Bye Bye.

[Perry (Retired Listener)]

Foreign.

[Tommy Mischke]

The extraordinary thing about Alzheimer's and dementia is that it doesn't just take one person down. Caretakers feel tremendous fatigue, get worn out. Worn down, it gets to be sometimes too much. You're no longer family. You don't feel like family anyway. You feel like a nurse, like a home health aide. And you used to feel more like family. What happens when people go to the Wellshire is all that care gets put on the shoulders of the people at the Wellshire and you get to be family again. You're free to be that loving presence. That's what you want to be and that's what they need, the professional care. The Wellshire can take care of the deep love. You handle that. The Wellshire. I have not had a book author on the program for a while and the reasons for that are, number one, I'm very picky. I have to enjoy the book thoroughly before I ever want to talk to someone about it. And number two, in a couple of instances, the book didn't arrive. The publishing company screwed up. They said it was coming. It never came. Interviews had to be cancelled because the book wasn't here. I need time to read it. There have been some screw ups on the publisher's part. Much of that is being remedied, but it has gotten me to thinking about interviews in general. There is a Latin term, you may know it sui generis. It means of its own kind, something that possesses such distinct, unparalleled characteristics that it belongs in a class by itself cannot easily be categorized, cannot be compared to something else wholly unique. Over the years, I have periodically mentioned to listeners that if you know someone in your world, in your sphere who carries that quality, that quality of sui generis, a person possessing such distinct, unparalleled characteristics that he or she actually belongs in a category all by themselves. They're wildly unusual, different, interesting, eccentric, they're extraordinary iconoclasts. There's just some qualities about them that you have just never heard of or seen in anyone else, or the story they tell, that they have to tell is simply unlike anything you've ever heard of or encountered. If someone like that comes to mind, please alert me. You know the phone number 651-321-8949 or you can email me mishkebardradio.com but I spent 11 years when I was doing the roadshow looking under rocks, down alleys, behind abandoned buildings, looking for people who I wouldn't normally come across without someone recommending them to me, hearing about them and mentioning them. That's what the roadshow was. Here at Hubbard Broadcasting, it's quite easy to get a hold of a publisher, have a book sent, read the book, enjoy the book, contact the author. But that's just one kind of interview. There's also the conversations that happen with people out there who I don't know, I've not heard about them. Now the bar is high. I don't want to do a typical interview with someone who did something that, while it may be kind of extraordinary, many, many others have done the same thing. I'm looking for qualities that make people one of a kind. If you don't know anyone like that, I understand. It would be tricky for me if someone were asking me this question, but if you do know someone, by all means, let me know. 651-321-8949 or mishkebardradio.com also I want to remind you, if you'd like to be on the listener list, text me and let me know you're open to being called. It is a male dominated list, my friends, so I take particular interest in learning that a woman out there is open to a phone call. Again, 651-321-8949 thank you all for listening. It's delightful hanging out with you and I will talk to you again next time.