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- [00:00]
A
Just a heads up to you folks sitting with a notebook and pen, Mishke, the new podcast here in Garage Logic land is now coming out twice a week, Wednesdays and Fridays. If you're in fact scribbling this down, Wednesday is kind of tough to spell. It's not like it sounds. You want to spell it W, E, N, Z, but that of course would be a mistake. Friday is spelled just like it sounds. You're going to be okay there, but Wednesday's a bugaboo. Let me tell you people just a pain in the patootie. Jeez, it's hard.
- [00:35]
I hear that sound once again I'm coming around coming around to do a show Got things I want you to know.
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My name's Mishke.
- [00:50]
B
Hooty, hootie hooty.
- [00:55]
A
I said a hootie hootie hoo.
- [01:03]
One, two, three.
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Coming at you.
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What are you talking about today? Snowmen. Wanna talk about snowmen? You're kidding me. No snowmen.
- [01:24]
Just read a book about snowmen. Turns out they're not real.
- [01:32]
They're.
- [01:35]
They're pretending to be people.
- [01:42]
I just read the History of the Snowman, the Illustrated History of the snowman. And those illustrations are important. They helped me understand the snowman better and the way a little picture book works. Well, with a four year old. I can't read the words, Daddy. That's okay. That's why there are pictures for you. Will that help Mishke when he reads books? Yes, that will help Tommy. The Illustrated History of the Snowman by Bob Eckstein. I think about the snowman a lot. In the winter, I get up and have coffee each day with a snowman. Actually, a group of them. We get together every winter and just talk about, well, our wives.
- [02:24]
It's the snowman time of year. They're gonna be around for a few months. Tip your cap when you see them. You'll pass them. You'll spot them. You'll make them. I hope you make them. It connects us to our ancient ancestors. They were making snowmen eons ago, making them look a lot like the ones we make. Yeah, Neanderthals didn't make the snowmen have protruding foreheads. Nope. They made the same kind of snowmen we make. Round heads, round stomachs, round butts. Snowmen had the whole Kim Kardashian thing going long before Kim. She's got a snowman butt. Look at that gal. I tell you what, she's my pal. She's got a snowman, but one cool, cool kitten. A kitten? I'm Smitten. I'm smitten. Got a snowman butt. My mama baby got a snowman but my mama baby got a snowman but I tell you what, snowman, but. Sorry. Let's get to the book. Bob Eckstein, welcome to the program.
- [03:35]
C
Great to be here.
- [03:37]
A
We are talking as winter hits and we will stumble upon, drive past, run into many a snowman in in the coming months. It is the ubiquitous feature of winter in the north country and a delightful feature, a playful, wondrous, sometimes quirky, sometimes mysterious, sometimes extraordinarily artistic feature of winter.
- [04:04]
C
Who made the first snowman? I'm convinced that goes back to prehistoric times. Prehistoric man made likenesses of himself with any materials available.
- [04:16]
A
You write humans have a common and simple need to imitate what they see and to depict themselves. Making a snowman is the first and probably the last time one will create a life sized human figure.
- [04:36]
C
Snowmen are the first selfies and it's one of the oldest forms of folk art.
- [04:43]
A
Muhammad Ali and Jack Nicholas combined have not graced as many magazine covers as the snowman who's had his face on more postage stamps. You'd be hard pressed to find a celebrity who crosses international boundaries as universally as the snowman. No one is more beloved, more popular. No one has appeared in more movies, been mentioned more often in literature, landed more endorsements, hocking everything from Cadillacs to laundry detergent to tuna casseroles. Arguably, with the exception of religious figures, the snowman is the single most recognized icon in the world. It thrills me of the thousands of day to day activities in our lives. Making snowmen may very well be among the handful, the small handful we still share with our ancestors. It may be one of the only times this winter, if you make a snowman, that you're doing something identical to what was done thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years ago by ancient ancestors covered in hair.
- [05:58]
C
Amen. 7th century northern China. There's writings and religious books that give permission for worshipers to make a snowman. Buddha. I tracked down the earliest physical evidence of a snowman when I went to the Royal Library at the Hague. And eventually I found in the margins of an illuminated manuscript from 1308, an illustration of a snowman. Michelangelo made a snowman on commission once. If you go back in time, it's very much less a children's activity. Before Frosty, you have stories about snowmen that are very adult in nature. He was sometimes used like fables to depict something serious.
- [06:46]
A
Wasn't there a picture from your book of Some movie starlet with a sexualized snowman. Yeah.
- [06:55]
C
There was even snowmen in ole slasher movies from the 1980s.
- [07:00]
A
Well, I wanted to ask you about that. You write in your book that there are 24 movies where with snowmen in the title. Six movies where the snowman is the killer.
- [07:12]
C
You know one thing about the snowman, it shows up in all these places because it's royalty free. And that's the reason why it showed up so much in advertising.
- [07:23]
A
There was no cost to grabbing the snowman. Right.
- [07:27]
C
So it was like sort of a lovable character or sort of an everyday figure we could relate with. Sort of a hapless guy who would be splashed on or knocked over by a kid on a sled. There was that likability. And then in the 11th hour, when Madison Avenue couldn't think of an idea for an ad, just bring the snowman in and he'll hock soup. It was a convenient cheap solution. You could kind of mold the snowman to any personality you want. Very simply, it's very easy to make this kind of pile of snow all of a sudden have a smile.
- [08:06]
A
I was astonished at how many ways the snowman has been used in advertising. Until I went through your book, looking at the different illustrations, seeing all the different ways it was used, I had no idea. It has been a tool in advertising, unlike anything has been a tool. I don't know if there's anything used as much that would be in human form or be anthropomorphized.
- [08:34]
C
You and me could try to think of a list, but we might wind up with the snowman at the end on top of the list of how frequent it was used.
- [08:43]
A
The reason Frosty the Snowman was written, it was a pure money grab. Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer had become a hit for Gene Autry. And a lot of people in the music money making business said, you've got to be kidding me. We've been working on all these different songs and that's the one that's getting a guy rich. Okay, hold on. There's gotta be another holiday theme we can play with. Well, not only was there, but Frosty the Snowman was the perfect thing to use because everybody could relate. It was both holiday and not holiday. Christmas and not Christmas, winter and fun. And it proved to be every bit the big money maker. About four years difference with those two songs.
- [09:36]
C
Yeah. And then after that they tried to cash in again with Peter Cottontail. I mean, I feel like if we let them, there would have been songs about Halloween and Someone must have stopped him and said enough already.
- [09:49]
A
Well. Or the culture changed in a way that kids didn't find that stuff as appealing. If you tried to make a kid song about a Thanksgiving turkey right now, it's not gonna sell.
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C
Unless it was rap song.
- [10:04]
A
Turkey wrap, turkey wrap. That works. Because there's sort of a sandwich feel to that anyway. And then you got the leftover thing going. You could call the song a turkey rap and it could be a song that was left over from the holiday. I'm working on it right now.
- [10:17]
C
Turkey Ra is not that bad.
- [10:19]
A
I'm working on it right now. The mind's going, I can do two things at once.
- [10:38]
Tom the turkey, he took a beating. A family of four, it was Tom. They were eating teeth in his side, teeth in his gut. But they did not cook him well. And I tell you what, Tom jumped up screamin', he jumped up steamin' Swearin to all that he was gonna get even he would teach them all that a turkey has rights with each of them he would be turnin out the lights hey. One by one he got them in their beds. A beak through the heart, a beak through the head. The moral of the story is obvious. Son makes sure sure your Thanksgiving turkey is well done.
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Well done, Tom.
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Well done, Tom. Oh welly, welly well done, Tom. You got sister, mother, father and son.
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Your eyeballs have been talking, they've been whispering. They've been saying, please, please, new frames. Come on. Yes. Your eyes are tired of the drab, the dull, the boring. They're staging a silent little internal rebellion. It's something I like to call the eye pocalypse. But fear not, citizens. There's a sanctuary. A brightly lit haven of visual liberation. I speak, of course, of Spectacle Shop. Voted best eyewear shop in Minnesota five years in a row by readers of the Star Tribune. When the great vision wars of 2025 struck, only one place held the key to ultimate ocular dominance. Spectacle Shop. They have four convenient Twin Cities locations. From the weirdest frame to the wonkiest prescription. They'll handle your eyeball needs with surgical precision and artistic flair. Their spectacle Shop. Stop letting your glasses be an accessory. Make them a statement. Make them a weapon. Make them a glorious spectacle. Spectacle Shop.
- [12:46]
D
For a limited time, you can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get 35 bucks off of Aura's best selling carver mat frames named number one by wire cutter, all you have to do is use the promo code GL at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code GL. This deal is exclusive to listeners and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. It can wrap togetherness, but you can't frame it. Or a frames.
- [13:24]
A
Hi there. You driving? Is the car you're driving a lie? Because if you didn't get it from Fury Motors, you're just driving a placeholder. Fury partners you with your best pal. That's what your vehicle becomes. Your best pal. Explain that to your spouse. They sell new cars more reliable than any spouse. And they sell used cars that will make you forget they're used. Can you say that about your spouse? Why do you keep comparing the cars to their spouse? Back off. You're not the boss of me. Since 63, Fury has been the gravitational center of Minnesota car buying. South St. Paul Stillwater. You'll also find him in Waconia Forest Lake. Four different portals to driving happiness. Four reasons your old car is suddenly trembling with fear Right now. Start driving a Fury vehicle. Go to furymotors.com Ride to Infinity and beyond.
- [14:31]
When Frosty came out as a song, what year was that?
- [14:34]
C
19, 20? 54?
- [14:37]
A
Wasn't Autry's Rudolph a 40s song?
- [14:40]
C
I'm gonna look it up as we.
- [14:41]
A
I think. I think Autry did Rudolph the Red Nosed reindeer in the 40s, and then four years later, frosty comes along. You cannot overstate what happened in the 50s with Frosty, with snowmen, with advertising, with television shows more so in the 60s continuing into the 70s. I mean, right now, every day of the week, you can go to ebay and find close to 40,000 items with a snowman theme. 40,000 items for sale, and there'll be 40,000 tomorrow and 40,000 the next day and they'll be different.
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C
I have 800 items in my attic.
- [15:21]
A
Why are they in your attic? When you collect something, you should get them out in your living room or dining room or somewhere you can see them. Your study.
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C
We did do that, and it overtook the house. There was no more living space.
- [15:33]
A
When you look at your book, you can understand how you could have so many artifacts. In fact, I don't think there's anything you could collect that you could come up with as many of as snowmen themed items. I really don't know what to make of it. I closed your book after finishing it, saying, my God, has anything ever taken over a culture more dominantly? Maybe Marilyn Monroe for a stretch there. By the way. Has anybody ever really played up more of the feminine qualities of this snow person? Always seems to be quite masculine.
- [16:10]
C
To me, the most important snow person ever was a female. Done during the French Revolution in 1871 in Paris, when a troop of french soldiers, who happened to be the leading artists of the country, were put together, had made this beautiful sculpture which became a war rally for that war. It's called la resistance, and it's a beautiful nude woman leaning against a cannon. And also, the world's largest snowman ever is a snow woman that was made up in Bethel, Maine.
- [16:47]
A
To be honest, I make snowmen every year, and I would gladly make a snow woman. There's only two reasons I don't do it. Number one, it's a hassle. Making the breasts, that's my number one reason. It's a hassle and they fall off. And when they fall off, the guys in the neighborhood make the sick jokes. Number two, the reason I don't do it is just making a female snow person gets people coming out going, what kind of a sick pervert are you? They already ascribe nefarious thoughts to me for even making a woman. It almost takes us in blow up doll country. So I've just stuck with a snowman just to avoid problems in the neighborhood.
- [17:26]
C
Problems in the neighborhood. You could just do it. Sundress on the snowman.
- [17:32]
A
I think a lot of people would expect mishke to put a sundress on his snowman and on his sasquatch. By the way, one of the number one reasons why people believe the Patterson film from 1967 showing Bigfoot. One of the number one reasons they think that's authentic is bigfoot has breasts. In the patterson film, what guys would get together and create a costume with breasts if they wanted to do a bigfoot gag, no one would get a costume with breasts. Who even makes a costume with breasts for a big ape? So you can see why a lot of snowmen don't have breasts.
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C
Um, I'm speechless.
- [18:11]
A
In advertising, the snowman hawked everything from soup to soap, from insurance to asbestos. The ultimate pitch man, the snowman was without peer, perched on top of advertisers a list. Advertisers. Oatmeal tractors, Cadillacs, children's clothes. This is because ad agencies found the snowman so easy to work with, so easy to tie into just about anything. Any cold weather product at all. You could use a snowman. Anything white, you could use a snowman. The snowman was used for shovels, for antifreeze, for Insulation for winter shoes. With the snowman you write, you were starting with a clean slate. It's a PR person's dream, a totally pliable public image to suit any account. You want your clothes clean and white. White. Like a snowman selling cigarettes. The snowman exudes cool and fresh air, even when he's smoking two packs a day. And unlike Santa, the snowman had conveniently distanced itself from any denomination, broadening the demographics, making him the sensible choice. Selling flour, selling cream of wheat, Ivory soap, Colgate refrigerators, even. You write cocaine. Was the snowman really used to sell cocaine?
- [19:34]
C
Yeah, in the inner cities. They printed the snowman on T shirts and different swag that you would see in stores. And that was a symbolism for coke. I want to thank you for reading that passage of the book. It's bringing back some memories.
- [19:50]
A
Here's straight from your book, too. See if this brings back some memories. How should a mother and daughter broach the uncomfortable subject of tampon use? Well, in 1949, Kotex decided throw a snowman into the mix to break the ice. Whole lot better than having dad there. The snowman provides a feeling of family closeness.
- [20:13]
C
I don't take drugs, but it sounds like I was on them when I wrote that.
- [20:16]
A
I almost didn't believe you there. That they brought in a snowman to sell Kotex. I almost didn't believe you there. So I did look it up. I went looking for it. I can't find any ad on YouTube. But then we're going back to the late 40s. Maybe they wouldn't have it. Did you really stumble upon an ad? And how was the snowman helping with the mom and the daughter there? I'm just trying to figure out the snowman's role.
- [20:39]
C
The snowman was used to add levity to any unusual situation.
- [20:45]
A
I know it adds levity to a lot of situations, but how is it adding levity to this situation? There's mom, there's daughter. They're talking about tampons. And the snowman appears seemingly out of nowhere. And he says, what does. What helps out in what way?
- [20:58]
C
I have to say, the ad, first of all, is real. It really does happen. And the snowman does appear in tampon commercials, as well as bad breath and gas commercials and all these other unpleasant hygiene situations. But it does get us talking, Right? We're talking about it now. So it did work.
- [21:16]
A
Yeah, but Hitler would have got us talking. I mean, anything weird would have got us talking. It's weird that a snowman's in a Tampon commercial. And Hitler wouldn't have belonged there either, but it would have got us talking. Hitler should have been used in a bad breath commercial. Do you got Hitler breath?
- [21:32]
C
You got me speechless again.
- [21:34]
A
The Snowman's ad accounts quadrupled around 1934. The phenomenal success of the Snowman as a pitch man can be traced back to the end of Prohibition. Right after that, all of a sudden, the liquor companies are grabbing him. You got beer companies grabbing them, you got whiskey companies grabbing them. It was around this time you write that the Snowman established his reputation as a fun drunk. He was a pickled skirt chasin under the table, lush. In various postcards and various illustrations, a disproportionate amount of holiday greeting cards show the Snowman cavorting with women, drinking with minors. I missed the whole Snowman as a drunk period. I never heard of this, this wonderful era in Americ where the snowman was constantly plastered.
- [22:25]
C
I call it the Dean Martin years.
- [22:27]
A
You refer to the Snowman as almost a Forrest Gump like character. Why do you say that?
- [22:35]
C
Because everything that took place, the drinking, smoking trends, different things that happen in our society are reflected in the Snowman. Like in Forrest Gump where he went through all these times and any benchmark of a moment there is a snowman. He showed up in war pictures and Citizen Kane. In that movie he had a knack for showing up like a frozen Forrest Gump at these key moments. Everything is so disjointed today. None of us share the same experiences. The Frosty the Snowman show was popular because it only aired once a year. And collectively, people watched it in front of the set so that you don't miss it. The problem now with any type of iconic holiday special or anything like that is that we could watch it anytime we want. You and me could watch a DVD of something in July. It kind of ruins its specialness.
- [23:35]
A
Yeah. I will say this, though. There is no replacement for the Snowman. There's no high tech replacement, there's no Internet replacement. It still is the same as with our prehistoric ancestors. You go outside, the stuff that has fallen is sticky this time, not powder. You right away are thinking, this is the snowfall where I should make one. And there is no alternative to that moment in this high tech, industrialized world. It's the same thing it's always been with your hands. You start molding this stuff and you decide yourself what it's going to look like. And when you're done, you, if you've put it in your front yard, People driving by will see it, maybe admire it, maybe smile as they pass it, maybe say, that guy really knew what he was doing. Or, look at that goofball. Look how he dressed that thing up. Look at how big he made it. There's no substitute for those experiences. There's a staying power to the snowman. Decade after decade, century after century.
- [24:38]
C
One obstacle I see, though, is children wearing mittens not being able to operate their iPhones. Could we get them away from their iPhone long enough to go out with gloves and not being able to handle their iPhones. You know what I mean? It's sort of a thing that. I'm being serious. I don't know if kids can embrace a tactile activity like making a snowman.
- [25:03]
A
They can if we allow them to bring their little smartphone with them to the snowman experience. And here's how you do that. I learned in your book. There are, count them, 90,000 YouTube videos right now that are just on how to build a snowman. 90,000 YouTube videos for something that you shouldn't need to be taught. My God, Neanderthals were making them. But there are 90,000, not 3,90,000 YouTube videos on how to build a snowman. If you tell the kids that they could spend all day in the yard looking at the thousands of different options and the different ways they could build one. How to build a snowman. Yay. Okay, so the first step is to pack a snowball, and then you'll roll it to make it into a big snowball.
- [26:00]
C
And every way is fine, but as long as they're not buying it, they're not buying a kit. I mean, if you're making a snowman, there's no wrong way of making it.
- [26:09]
A
You can make a hermaphrodite. The neighbors are going to talk. Let them. Hey, in your book, you know what makes an appearance? A snowman. From my neck of the woods right here, the North St. Paul snowman. Largest stucco snowman in the world. Cool. Yep. A couple of categories we've missed. War. Somehow you tie the snowman into war. I believe it gets a whole chapter.
- [26:38]
C
I have found in my research an abundance of war photographs of people posing with a snowman they made. It might be because an activity like that bonded them together. It brought the soldiers together a bit, doing something that's, you know, light. And that might be the reason, you.
- [27:03]
A
Know, where the snowman could have made an appearance. And I'm quite serious here. Battle of the Bulge. That was one seriously cold winter battle that went on for quite a Long time. There could have been ways to incorporate the snowmen. Maybe if you're down to just a few guys, you make some snowmen and convince the Nazis you've got more personnel than you actually have. Dress them up in some of the discarded uniforms of the dead soldiers. I'm just throwing it out there.
- [27:30]
C
I think the first couple of snowmen ever made in this country were soldiers during the massacre of 1690. There were two guards who were outside the gate and they were supposed to guard the gate because they couldn't close the gates. They were frozen open because of a blizzard. The gates to Fort Schenectady were permanently open during this blizzard. But the two guys there heard the party going on in the pub that existed inside that, that fort. So they left their post and made two snowmen in their place instead. These two snowmen greeted 210 French Indian soldiers who had been marching for four days through slush from Montreal. And they came into that fort and attacked the town of Schenectady.
- [28:26]
A
I saw something. This is wildly disconnected from what you just described. I saw something in your book where a Winston cigarette was being sold using a snowman. And there was a man and a woman, good looking man, good looking woman. And the snowman was saying to the couple, it's not how long you make it, it's how you make it long.
- [28:52]
C
Okay, I'm going to just take you away from where you're going there. And Ed, I think that these cigarette manufacturers were trying to tackle the problem of how to repair the image of smoking being dark. And so they were always thinking of a way of adding a snowman to make it feel like it's like cool, refreshing, just like that brand of cigarettes.
- [29:20]
D
Cool.
- [29:21]
A
I got the feeling that it was maybe the beginning of getting the kids interested in it the same way that Camel, that goofy cartoon Camel was used. But I'll tell you something, I don't think that message was very kid friendly. It's not how long you make it, it's how you make it long. How did that get past the censors?
- [29:39]
C
Yeah, everything was different back then.
- [29:41]
A
It's an absolutely extraordinary book. The Illustrated History of the Snowman. Bob Eckstein, the author, New York Times best selling author and snowman expert. This isn't the only work of art you've been responsible for. What else do you have out there that you want people to know about?
- [30:01]
C
Well, thanks. I have a couple of books, footnotes, from the most fascinating museums, museums all around North America. And I was just trying to raise awareness for this thing we kind of take for granted, museums that are not doing so great since COVID and trying to encourage people that we have these great institutions out there, right there near us, where we could see everything we've accomplished. They reflect everything we've done in art and other achievements. And then I'm also talking about another new book I have called Inspired by Cats. And it's a collection of portraits I did of the world's greatest writers who have been inspired by their pet cat. And there's a lot of writers out there who consider their cat their museum. And I share amusing stories about how they've been great companions, how they've done all this great work thanks to this little cat.
- [31:00]
A
I one time interviewed a war correspondent, a hardened war correspondent who had been in the thick of it all over the world. And I kept hearing the sounds of cats in the background. At one point I interrupted. I said, how many cats do you have? He said, I have nine. I said, why do you have nine cats? He says, that way there's always one that's awake.
- [31:22]
C
I think over six cats are crazy.
- [31:24]
A
Hey. I had a neighbor come to me and I had to sign a petition allowing her to have six cats more than the city allowed. So she had to get signatures from the neighbors.
- [31:37]
C
Where is she now?
- [31:38]
A
She was actually killed by the cats. They took her out in one crazy evening. All of them had rabies? Yep.
- [31:45]
C
I thought so.
- [31:45]
A
Well, I've enjoyed our time together. I wish you all the best. Certainly have a delightful holiday season.
- [31:51]
C
I just enjoy the fact that I had a good laugh with you. If we didn't record this, I wouldn't consider it any less.
- [31:58]
A
Oh, well, that's very kind of you to say. I love that. That's a delightful comment.
- [32:03]
C
Thanks so much. I really enjoyed this.
- [32:05]
A
I did as well. Bye.
- [32:06]
B
Bye.
- [32:12]
A
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- [33:25]
D
We'll get to some national, international stuff in a minute. Before we do, I got to tell you about something, Boy, I just. I love it. We've had it in my house now for, I think, about three months, and it makes a great Christmas gift. You might be one of those people you put off your Christmas shopping to the last minute, end up maybe buying a gift card. Well, this year, I can take care of that issue for you. Get yourself an aura frame. My wife and I took our favorite photos and videos, loaded them all into the new aura frame. Right now, that's about 750 items. And I guarantee we're gonna have a lot of new pictures to add once this Christmas season is over. And it's really, really easy to use.
- [34:03]
A
John, can you download them from your phone?
- [34:06]
D
Just from your phone? Exactly. So I have. I had all those pictures on my phone. I got the aura frame, and I just started hitting boom, boom, boom, after. All you have to do is download the aura app and connect it to WI Fi and start adding pictures. It's really easy to use. Chris, if I may use your favorite word. It literally took just a couple of minutes to set it up.
- [34:27]
A
I know someone that just recently purchased.
- [34:29]
B
This, and that person is so thrilled and really thinks that that person has.
- [34:35]
A
Has cheated Christmas because it's such a wonderful gift that there's. There's no more worry. I've taken care of it. Yes.
- [34:44]
B
I didn't name you, but okay.
- [34:46]
D
The other thing is, it's. You know, we've all had picture frames in the past, and they're kind of weird. Cloudy, not great. This is. It looks like the actual photos in front of you. The screen is gorgeous. It's perfect. It's easy to do for a limited time. You can save on the perfect gift by visiting auraframes.com to get 35 bucks off of Aura's best, bestselling carver mat frames named number one by wire cutter. All you have to do is use the promo code GL at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code GL. This deal is exclusive to listeners, and frames sell out fast, so order yours now to get it in time for the holidays. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. You can wrap togetherness, but you can't frame it. Aura frames.
- [35:37]
A
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- [36:51]
Should we spin the listener loop? Make a call to some complete stranger? I never think stranger danger when I'm making these calls, do you?
- [37:05]
Let's spin the big Wheel, see where we end up.
- [37:13]
Whoa, that's a long ways away.
- [37:17]
That's the other side of the country right there. Jumping Jehovah. All right.
- [37:42]
Hello, Andy?
- [37:45]
B
Yeah, is this Mr. Tommy Mischke?
- [37:48]
A
Are you talking to me on a speakerphone?
- [37:52]
B
Is that less than agreeable? Because we can potentially figure out how to change that.
- [37:56]
A
It's a nightmare.
- [38:00]
B
Tommy Mischke.
- [38:02]
A
Way better. What am I catching you doing?
- [38:05]
B
I was en route to driving my 15 year old son to his voice lessons. He's a musician and a singer and an actor, so we're trying to give him all the tools he can get.
- [38:15]
A
How is his voice?
- [38:17]
B
He's pretty amazing, let me tell you. When he first got into theater and singing and stuff, I thought to myself, because we had gone through soccer and T ball and it's not always the easiest thing to watch, not too good at it. And I was worried that this might go the same way. But every single time that I've watched him perform, I have just been delighted. I've been fully tickled. I never cease to be amused and amazed.
- [38:41]
A
What does he like about it?
- [38:43]
B
That's a great question. I don't know.
- [38:45]
A
I was in a play one time when I was 14 years old, school play. And I remember realizing instantly the two reasons I liked it. It was just so obvious what was appealing about it, why it was so wonderful. Number one, I got to pretend, an intentional act of pretending for a prolonged period of time. My favorite thing to do when I was a kid was pretend. Pretend to be an army man, pretend to be a major league ball player. Pretending was my favorite thing. And so this was an arranged bit of pretending that the adults put together and said, would you like to pretend? I said, I love pretending. What am I pretending to be now? In this play, I was pretending to be a Revolutionary War soldier, American Revolution. Second thing was, I got a hell of a lot of attention. There was a lot of attention showered on me. Other students, it seemed to be a big deal to them, and I wasn't the star. I thought, well, this is a great gig. You pretend and people pay a lot of attention to you. Now that's pretty much the story today in Hollywood. Big time pretending going on, and, boy, do those guys get adoration.
- [40:06]
What did you do with your life?
- [40:08]
B
I don't know if you remember back when Brown Institute was over there on East Lake street, but I went there for radio and television broadcasting when I was in high school. I would stay up late and listen to you on the radio. And eventually I went to school for broadcasting. And then I found music people who were in bands, and I just fell in love with, like, punk music and the ethos of that type of music and the community involved. And I went on the road and I toured with a bunch of bands, and I did that for several years. And then I moved to Florida, where I met my wife and started a family. And now I work for the government here in Gainesville, Florida. Work for the city. I'm part of the public works team, and my wife and I are in the process with some good friends and neighbors, of starting a band. We're kind of a bluegrass band, and we do that a few times a week. I might suggest to them that we cover one of your songs. With your permission.
- [41:03]
A
I'd be honored.
- [41:04]
B
Oh, that'd be amazing. I think about the song from the Whistle Stop album you did. Thoughts Rose high above those crazy mountains and I swear they touched the sky. I think about that song a lot. So thank you so much for doing that one, for doing all of them, really.
- [41:19]
A
Now, is this just coincidence? Did you not hear the last program?
- [41:25]
B
I did not, no, not yet. I've been kind of on holiday break and spending time with family, and I haven't really been listening to podcasts or radio or otherwise over the last two weeks.
- [41:34]
A
Out of all the songs that I've put out, you just brought up a song that I played on the last show.
- [41:41]
B
You're kidding. I'm gonna have to go back and listen for sure now. I'm back to work tomorrow, and I will listen to it for sure.
- [41:46]
A
And you want to cover that song?
- [41:49]
B
I would love to, yeah. I mean, obviously, if you wouldn't object.
- [41:53]
A
Well, not only wouldn't I object, I'd want to hear your take on it. One of the more delightful experiences I've had in life is hearing someone take one of my songs and do something with it and then being able to listen to it later from a strange distance. It's fresh, in a way. And you're hearing it almost as though you were just spinning the dial on the radio and coming across a song. Whereas when you work on a song, write a song, play it a lot, you no longer have that distance or perspective. You can't even hear it. It's hard to even like it anymore, frankly. You spend so much time with it. No matter what you did with a song, if I got it sent in an MP3 in an email, I'd probably pour myself a drink, sit out on the porch, put my feet up, and hit play with wonder.
- [42:44]
B
That's wonderful. Well, you're making a good case. I have to argue it with the rest of the people in the band, but I think we could probably convince them to do it and we'll send you something.
- [42:52]
A
So you were a punk guy, but if you sit down with people right now and say, let's play some music. You want to play bluegrass?
- [43:01]
B
Yeah. My one friend down here loves playing guitar, and he kind of fell in love with billy strings music, and he decided he wanted to start playing Billy string style or doc Watson or these old bluegrass guys. And my wife is in a band called Whiskey and Company, and they've been a band for 20, 30 years. And he called and asked if we would sing while he played guitars. And then I said, well, I've got a neighbor who plays guitar as well. We could add some texture. And then I know somebody who plays bass. So now all of a sudden, we're growing into a bigger beast, which has been just really fun to watch this thing grow. And I think the most fun that I'm having with them is we're collaboratively writing new songs.
- [43:42]
A
Have you written a song?
- [43:44]
B
I have, actually. I wrote it several years ago. I was in a different, louder kind of punk band with some friends, and it never got released. We never finished it. And so I brought it back up with this band, and we're working on it. It's called Paso, and it's named after a friend of mine who tragically passed away in one of the skyways in downtown Minneapolis.
- [44:07]
A
One of your friends died tragically in a skyway.
- [44:11]
B
He had made a string of poor choices for quite a while and ended up taking his own life downtown in a skyway? Yeah. What I was told there's like a Salvation army or some sort of homeless shelter. He had tried to get in there and couldn't get in. And he just sort of took shelter in a cold January night in the skyway just to be out of the elements. And that was where his earthly life ended.
- [44:39]
A
I just am so curious. How does one end a life in a skyway?
- [44:44]
B
He had some sort of gun and shot himself.
- [44:48]
A
What an extraordinarily unusual place to do that. That I believe has never been done before.
- [44:55]
B
He did a lot of things that had never been done before. So I wouldn't put him past him to make a first with that too.
- [45:01]
A
And you wrote a song about him?
- [45:04]
B
Well, the song is what I imagined that experience and kind of what I hoped that experience was like. The lyrics are if I can remember them off the top of my head without looking. I only hope that you found peace hidden above the cold wet streets that someone came and held your hand Softly whispered in your ear Held you close and dried your tears. It was just me imagining that some sort of higher power or something was there to comfort him.
- [45:31]
A
This is another coincidence. The last show also featured stories from people who had near death experiences and what happened after they died. If your friend had anything close to the experiences these people reported. Your friend had a lovely ride.
- [45:49]
B
What a coincidence that it's a topic that you touched recently. I can't wait to tune in on that one.
- [45:53]
A
It's intriguing to me that it was a punk song and it fits neatly into this new bluegrass mold.
- [46:03]
B
I'm fortunate that the friends who I play music with are super talented and you give them a little morsel of something and they're able to just turn it into just something completely different and amazing. So I'm not a very good musician. I dabble in guitar. I like singing, but I just sort of ripped out some real raw guitar notes and they turned it into what I think is something real beautiful. Once it's ready, I'd be honored to share it with you.
- [46:29]
A
Yeah, I'd like to hear it. Do you ever find yourself now driving down the road and just cranking some punk rock song as loud as you can in your car?
- [46:38]
B
If we're being honest I did that for a lot of years, for a long time. And I'm almost 50 now. And I've had a realization that I think a lot of the music that I love so much, I loved because of the community and because of the people that I knew who were involved with it. And if I take myself out of that community, I don't like the music as much. I listen to a lot of jazz music now, and country. Well, really, a lot of everything. I know a lot of people say that, but I just find music the meaning of life. I try to listen to as much different stuff as I can, but unfortunately, punk and metal don't come up on my playlist very much.
- [47:15]
A
I find myself wondering if somewhere in this world, some senior high rise, some assisted living facility, I wonder if there's an old person, maybe in his 80s, who was really into the punk scene in the 70s, still cranking it pretty loud and being chastised by some of the other residents. Could it be that there's someone in their 80s just blasting that?
- [47:50]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely. There has to be. In fact, I would argue that there's older people that are. Some of the original punk rockers are still out there making the music.
- [47:57]
A
You know, I'm pretty sure they all died.
- [48:01]
B
Well, I think that was the path for many of them. You know, that lifestyle isn't always conducive to longevity.
- [48:08]
A
Who's the oldest punk rocker alive today? Iggy Pop is still alive. James Osterberg.
- [48:15]
B
Heck, yeah. He's definitely one of the older ones. He's definitely blasting it.
- [48:19]
A
1947, the year he was born.
- [48:23]
B
Keith Morris has got to be getting up there. He was in Black Flag and the Circle Jerks.
- [48:29]
A
I'm struggling with the fact that there was a band called the Circle Jerks.
- [48:33]
B
The Circle Jerks had an album called Group Sex. And I used to work for the Minnesota Twins in their ticket and information line, which was underneath the field in the basement of the Metrodome. And we were all given cubicles, and on the cubicles were pins like, who's pitching on what day, you know, what the lineup is, what ticket prices are. So if you called and you had a question about the Twins, ideally somebody sitting there would have the answer posted on their wall and you'd be able to help people out. Well, I was working on a particular weekend, which was the Kirby Puckett weekend when he retired. And Kirby Puckett, I think, was the vice president of the Twins at the time. And I met him a handful of times, and he was always very kind to me. But Bob Costas this particular weekend was hosting the whole weekend. And I came into work wearing. I used to have two green mohawks and a whole tackle box of piercings in my face. And I, on this particular day, was wearing my circle jerks group sex T shirt. And I went down to the stairwell to go to the cafeteria, and there was three or four large gentlemen blocking the the stairwell. I couldn't get down, and in the middle was a little short guy. And I said, excuse me a few times, and finally they let me through. I went and got my food and had the same experience on the way up. They wouldn't get out of the way, and I said, excuse me a few times. And the little guy in the middle kept staring at me like I was insane. Turns out I come into work a couple of days later, and I am told by the supervisor that all the ticket and information line folks at the Minnesota Twins now have to wear uniforms. And you have to purchase a Twins jersey as your uniform because somebody. And I'm not pointing fingers, he stared right at me, was wearing a circle jerks group sex shirt. And it really offended Bob Costas.
- [50:17]
A
You ticked off Bob Costas, and now.
- [50:20]
B
All the Twins employees have to wear uniforms.
- [50:23]
A
That's sort of a badge of honor.
- [50:27]
You were really bothered by that T shirt, huh, Bob?
- [50:30]
B
Yeah, I think there are times when you need to be more aware.
- [50:34]
A
Well, he says you were looking at him like he was insane.
- [50:37]
B
He should have backed off.
- [50:38]
A
Well, you weren't getting out of his way on the stairwell.
- [50:41]
B
He had a bit of a chip on his shoulder.
- [50:43]
A
What did you want to see done to the young man?
- [50:46]
B
Hasn't he been punished?
- [50:47]
A
Yes, he has. It's embarrassing. Because of him, everybody has to wear a uniform now.
- [50:52]
B
I can't remember ever taking it personally.
- [51:00]
A
Your estimated wait time is approximately 57 minutes. Please press 3 to hear the menu options again. That's the sound that perfectly defines modern banking. You call a big national bank about a loan, you end up talking to someone who's never even heard of your time zone. You ask a simple question, you get 37 pages of corporate jargon. They might have branches in all 50 states, but they understand nothing about here. Right here, your community. Switch to North American Banking Company. A community bank that understands you. North American Banking Company has six convenient Twin Cities locations. They believe when your banker is your neighbor, your loan gets approved faster, your mortgage makes more sense. Your money questions are answered by someone who actually gets what you're talking about. North American Banking Company is as sophisticated as the Big guys as secure, just as technologically advanced. They just want the human brought back into banking. It used to be there. Tired of feeling like your bank treats you like a stranger? Choose the bank that knows you as a neighbor. Choose North American Banking Company. North American Banking Company Member fdic. Equal housing lender. Josh Arnold has over four four decades of staring down recessions, bull markets. He's the most experienced investment advisor you're ever going to run into. He's who you want to be talking to about your money. He's advised on mutual funds, retirement plans, the whole chaotic carnival. He's done it all. He's shown people the path to security. You ought to call Josh Arnold right now because you don't get a measly 5 minutes for nothing or 10 minutes for nothing. You get 48 minutes on the phone with them for nothing. You can hang up, no obligation, disappear, never talk to him again. But 48 minutes on the phone with Josh Arnold could change your life. Stop trusting your future to a nervous kid with a spreadsheet, a guy named Lenny. Get four decades of wisdom from Josh. Stop waiting. Start dialing 952-925-5608. Investment services offered by Josh Arnold Investment Consultant, LLC. A security and investment advisor. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. All investments involve risk. Tommy Mischke is a paid endorser.
- [53:29]
Now. You're one of the few guys. You're one of the few guys who texted me, letting me know you were open to being called, who added a last name. Am I pronouncing it right if I say switch? Schwick, the ch at the end, you don't make that because I liked schwich, as in tertin smokers would rather fight than switch. Are you familiar at all with the old territan cigarettes advertising campaign?
- [53:59]
B
I am not, no.
- [54:01]
A
Very unusual. The ads that would run would feature someone with a black eye, someone who had been popped, and they'd have their tertin smoke, and they'd be looking at the camera and saying, we territin smokers would rather fight than switch. The idea seemed to be that someone was trying to get them to smoke another cigarette. A Winston, a Marlboro, I don't know. And they said, no, I'd rather not. Somehow we're supposed to believe that person said, you know them fighting words. If you're not going to smoke, Winston, come outside. And they put up their dukes and they fought it out. And the tartan guy got a black eye out of the deal and he said, I don't care. I'm still smoking. Tarantin.
- [54:44]
B
Us Tarrington smokers would rather fight than switch.
- [54:48]
A
Join me. Unswitchable smoke. Tarryton Tarrington smokers would rather fight than switch.
- [54:57]
Cigarette ads used to have quite the effect on me as a kid. They were on television. I remember one guy, he was an old gold filter smoker and he was an independent guy with an independent mind. That's what they said about him. He had his own plane and he flew into the bush country. I remember the ad. And he got out of his plane and there was a song that was playing at the time saying he's an independent guy with an independent mind A mind of his own he's an independent guy he likes to set his own kind of stuff Style doesn't care what's in or new Chooses things to suit his taste Couldn't care what others do he's an old gold filters man.
- [55:46]
C
Just.
- [55:46]
A
An ordinary guy with an independent mind A mind of his own he's an old gold filters man and boy did I want want to be an old gold filter man. My brother would give me a note and send me down to the bar to get him some smokes. I'd have to give 50 cents to the bartender and he'd go over to the machine, get a pack of smokes, hand it to me, and then I was supposed to head back and give it to my brother. Sometimes I'd sneak a couple. I'd tell him that was the cost of sending me down there. And boy, there was nothing like the feeling of walking around my neighborhood at 12 years of age with a cigarette, smoking it or pretending to. I actually didn't inhale because I couldn't do it without gagging. But just the act of bringing the cigarette to my mouth and blowing smoke out of my mouth. I couldn't tell the difference between me and an 18 year old. I was 18 in my mind and I assumed other people were looking at me and saying, look at that cool 18 year old guy's got to be at least 18. Look at that guy right there. I bet he's a interesting cool guy to hang with. Meanwhile, what they were actually saying is, what a dork.
- [56:58]
B
I noticed something a few years back. I'm a big baseball fan, going to baseball games. All the advertisements used to be for cigarettes and alcohol and now they're all for cancer doctors.
- [57:08]
A
What is happening that's really depressing that you'd see ads for cancer doctors.
- [57:13]
B
Maybe it's a Florida thing. You go to the Rays game and they post a lot of billboards. In the outfield for cancer doctors.
- [57:20]
A
Pick me, pick me. I'm a good cancer doctor. No, I'm better over here.
- [57:24]
B
They got to get their name out there.
- [57:25]
A
Most of my people go five years. I don't think these other guys. Patients make it five. Mine do five years.
- [57:33]
B
I'd rather get punched in the face than change. Doctor.
- [57:38]
A
You need a name for your band.
- [57:41]
B
We are currently working on it. We had a spreadsheet with about 50 or 60 names on it, and I made a ranking system and a scoring system. We had a few of them that we liked. One of them was friends and neighbors because literally the people in our band are all of my neighbors or we're all neighbors.
- [57:57]
A
That's the kind of name Mr. Rogers would come up with for his band. A former punk rock guy comes up with a band named friends and neighbors.
- [58:08]
B
And then I'm a big Mary oliver fan, and I wanted it to be called soft animals.
- [58:13]
A
Soft animals. That's actually a disturbing name. I don't know if you're a little kid cuddling with a teddy bear or if you're going around pressing on creatures to see what they feel like.
- [58:26]
B
I took it from the Mary Oliver poem the wild geese, where she says, you do not have to be good. You do not have to walk for a thousand miles on your hands and knees, repenting. You must only let the soft animal of your body love what it loves.
- [58:39]
A
The soft animal of your body.
- [58:42]
B
But I think you're right. That one probably didn't make the cut because out of context, it might give people a weird impression.
- [58:48]
A
I think you got to put a little punk back into the name. Maybe Mary Oliver's illegitimate son.
- [58:55]
B
I'm going to send it over to the band and we'll send you a copy of our first record, Mary oliver's illegitimate son. I'm actually into that.
- [59:06]
A
I know it beats soft animal. Say we just asked AI to come up with a band name. Give me a band name no one else in the world has. That would sound really cool for a Florida bluegrass band. Here is a unique band name that combines the classic sound of bluegrass with a distinct Florida flavor, and which I am confident no one else is currently using. The Cypress keys Revival. The Cypress keys revival.
- [59:34]
B
That's actually pretty good. I actually kind of like it.
- [59:37]
A
Yeah. No one else has it. The Cypress keys revival.
- [59:41]
B
Oh, I appreciate that. The main guitar player in my band and I last year, two years ago, we hiked through the everglades in the state park called big cypress. We hiked for 30 miles in like knee high water for two days, two and a half days.
- [59:57]
A
Listen to AI's idea of why this is a good name. It evokes the swampy deep south imagery of Florida's interior, grounding the band in a natural southern setting suitable for bluegrass. It suggests the energetic, spiritual and traditional nature of the music. Blends the rustic woods feel with the unique beach island identity of Florida, making it distinct from traditional Appalachian bluegrass names.
- [60:26]
B
I like it. I think it's good. I just got to convince four other people the same.
- [60:30]
A
It's going to be tough. You might want to just stay with Mary Oliver's illegitimate son. Well, send me your music if you ever are able to. And if you ever record thoughts of you, I'd sure love to hear it.
- [60:43]
B
Absolutely will do that. And thanks for that permission. We'll share it with you for sure if we get it done.
- [60:48]
A
Great visiting with you. Glad I got a hold of you. Hope to talk to you again sometime.
- [60:53]
B
Yeah, Mischie, thank you so much. And listen, thank you so much for all your years of service to broadcast and entertainment and education and all the wonderful things you do. You make a weird old do like me feel a little bit more at home every time I hear you. So thank you so much.
- [61:08]
A
That's very nice to hear. Thank you for saying that.
- [61:10]
B
All right, sir, I appreciate you so long now. All right, take care.