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- [00:00]
Narrator/Advertiser
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- [00:56]
Mishke
Hi, you're listening to Meditating with Jan from Toyota. Soften your focus and visualize yourself off roading in a Tacoma. Now engage your senses. What do you hear? A donkey? Because you're driving the kids to a farm sanctuary in a Grand Highlander. Breathe in, breathe out and go from dreaming it to driving it today.
- [01:18]
Narrator/Advertiser
Dealer inventory may vary. See your participating Toyota dealer for details. Event ends March 31st.
- [01:24]
Mishke
Toyota. Let's go places. Okay, we have some test listeners we're working with today. A small group of test listeners we were able to employ. This is going to be all very interesting to me. My name's Mishke. We primarily are going with old discarded crash test dummies from the automotive industry. We're using about half, half a dozen of them today as test listeners. One of the nice things about test listeners is we can monitor them, see how the listening goes, what happens to them while they listen, and how they seem afterward. They don't make formal podcast test listeners. You have to go with testing agents that have been employed in other industries. We went with the automotive industry and again are utilizing old discarded crash test dummies today. Six of them. We named them Tim, Stephen, Robert, Al, Bob and Dennis. They didn't have any women available at all. They told us they never do. Strange. There's a related story in the news involving crash test dummies. The first female crash test dummies ever are going to be used this month. There have never been any female crash test dummies, only male. Going back all the way to the beginning of collision testing. Many find this embarrassing. And indeed, people in the auto industry say it is an embarrassing revelation. They just never went with female crash Test dummies. Not until now. Not until finally there was an outcry. For the first time in history, female crash test dummies will now be placed in vehicles when the vehicles are used in intentional collisions. I don't know how the women feel about that. Some people thought the women were kind of skating by not being forced into the vehicles the men had to endure the impact. Female crash test dummies were nowhere to be found. That's changing. Well, the next frontier in the fight for gender equality, crash test dummies. For decades, government crash tests have relied on male dummies. Even though men and women have different physical builds, the impact of using female crash test dummies could be life saving. Here's NBC's Tom Costello.
- [04:24]
Narrator/Advertiser
Government regulators say gender disparities are unacceptable
- [04:27]
Mishke
and concede the approval process has taken too long. They've completely ignored women. They continue to completely ignore women.
- [04:36]
Chris
Crash test dummies. Over the years, they have helped to make cars SAFER for everyone. But 12 on youn side's Marilyn Moritz says there are some concerns of gender bias, saying they don't really represent half of the drivers on the roads. Women.
- [04:51]
Mishke
Most crash test dummies represent a very specific type of driver, the average adult man.
- [04:57]
Narrator/Advertiser
There are no crash test dummies that represent the average female in our country. And that's despite the fact that women are nearly half the drivers and are more than half the population.
- [05:07]
Mishke
They've completely ignored women. They continue to completely ignore women. It was long believed that women could not be crash test dummies, just like it was believed women couldn't be soldiers in combat. Not true. Women make effective, skillful, even exceptional crash test dummies, according to experts. In fact, some of our best and most accomplished crash test dummies have been female. This crash test dummy I have with me right here on the show has outperformed all other crash test dummies in collisions. Absolutely stellar reports coming out of automobile collision research labs and testing sites in Detroit and elsewhere. So I'll start my questioning, ma', am, by asking, why has it taken so long, do you think, for female crash test dummies to be given their shot? Maybe my question wasn't clear. What's your sense of why it's taken this long for you to get a chance to prove yourself? Hello. Would you answer my question, please? Okay, so we're learning that while females may be allowed to be crash test dummies, they will never again be allowed as guests on this program. Not when their mission seems to be to embarrass me in front of my listening audience. We'll skip the interview. And Gary, please drag her the hell out of here. Put her in the Ford Pinto. I'll move instead to a concern some people are raising having to do with this introduction of female crash test dummies. The issue fraternization. Concerns about fraternization between male and female crash test dummies has the head of the largest collision laboratory in Dearborn, Michigan, saying sexual relationships between crash test dummies have the potential to negatively affect morale, readiness, and good order and discipline during testing weeks. And we strongly discourage it. Nevertheless, the very fact that crash test dummies exist on the edge, never knowing when their last day will come, creates a seize the day mentality that can be difficult to counter with rules and regulations. Carla Wallocksburg is a new crash test dummy assigned to the Dearborn Collision Lab for the Ford Motor Company. She's standing by in Dearborn. Carla, how much interaction is there between the male and female dummies? Oh, come on. You too, Tom. The term dummy should have been the obvious indication they won't be able to
- [08:09]
Chuck/Mike
speak with you at all.
- [08:10]
Mishke
Oh, and now you're calling me dumb. I know what crash test dummies do, you twit. I've worked with something similar. You guys may not have heard of this, but we actually have podcast dummies that we test out before putting a live body in front of these microphones here. With podcasting being a relatively new medium in this world, there was a desire to test our equipment with podcast dummies before putting a live human being in this chair. And I'll tell you something, a lot of vitriol was showered on these first podcast testing dummies after they performed in sample shows. This is just some of the abuse they got. I have it here. And by the way, this is important stuff for us to hear and to take note of and to record and use for helping put together future podcasts. Here's some samples of what we heard. Paul Ettinger of Appleton, Wisconsin said, this podcast had no one talking. What the hell is the point of it? It was silence the whole time. Are you purposely screwing with us or what? And this from Nancy Welsh of Rochester, Minnesota. Podcast testing dummies is possibly the worst idea I've ever heard. This is an audio medium. Where the hell was the talking? I couldn't hear a thing. I want to tell you what we learned from putting these dummies in front of the microphone ahead of time. The first lesson in podcasting is you have to develop A thick skin. Humans aren't built to be ridiculed, to be insulted, to be belittled. Best to let the podcast Testing Dummies take the brunt of that head on, as we learn from it. Now, as you overheard moments ago, I wasn't able to converse with Crash Test Dummies as guests on this program. And that's a shame, because it would have been interesting to talk to the very first female Crash Test dummy. The Jackie Robinson of Crash Test Dummies. Or maybe that's not the right analogy. The Amelia Earhart of Crash Test Dummies. Or the Sandra Day o' Connor of Crash Test Dummies. The Sally Ride of Crash Test Dummies would have been interesting to sit down and have a conversation. We've never had a female president, so I can't go with that analogy. Who was the first female governor in America? You're going to be surprised to learn this. The very first female governor would have been the governor of what state? You wouldn't guess Wyoming, would you? Those cowboys put the first female governor in the State House, 1925. Before you make fun of Wyoming, you should probably remember this. They were also the first state to grant women the right to vote way back in 1869. Cut Wyoming some slack. These cowboy states, they can surprise you. Look at Montana. Jeannette Rankin became the first woman to hold federal office in the entire United States. She was elected to the US House of Representatives in 1916. Now while they can brag about that, they never again put another woman in Congress. That was it. Folks in Montana said, we found the one smart woman, she's now dead and we're done with the ladies. Speaking of surprises, let me throw this at you. If I were to say to you, who was the very first female self made millionaire in the history of the United States? Who would you guess? The very first self made female millionaire. Not born into it? No, no. Earned it the hard way. Started with nothing and on her own became a millionaire. I was stunned to learn it was an African American woman, the daughter of slaves, Madam C.J. walker. She created hair products for black women and her business empire grew and grew and grew. She eventually had 25,000 African American women working for her, known as Walker agents. And way back in the early part of the 20th century, she became wildly rich. Must have thrown a fair amount of white guys for a loop seeing her, huh? Here's this black woman millionaire walking around at a time when most American women weren't even able to get a decent job. But back to female Crash Test dummies. I don't know why this story isn't getting more press. There's actually been very little said about it considering it's such a big first. Very few out there are highlighting this story as a sign of advancement for women. You almost wonder if that itself isn't a sign that women haven't advanced all that much at all. No one cares in this male dominated world to highlight a story featuring the success of women in such a big way. Or maybe it's female journalists who are put off by the word dummy and thus don't want to promote this story. Or maybe it's the violence toward women issue which is very prominent in the world these days. These female dummies are being purposely abused in automobile crashes and then objectified as the results are studied. Interestingly, when they tested bungee cords for the first time over steep rocky cliffs, they only used women. They just used women. Hollywood stuntman PK Chemmer says he tried to talk his wife into being a crash test dummy, but she refused. Here's his quote. I told her, honey, you always talk about this world of stuntmen being a prejudiced world. You've been wanting to get into the biz. Why don't you take baby steps? Why don't you start by volunteering as a crash test dummy and see how you like that. See how you fare. Woke up in the morning to divorce papers. Let me tell you something about my wife. I purposely crashed our car with her in it just to get her to see if she would like being a crash test dummy. Visiting her in the hospital after that crash, she told me she did not want to be a crash test dummy. But I think that's only because we had our infant daughter in the car at the time of the crash. That bothered her. But I said to her, what's wrong with making our newborn the first infant crash test dummy? And she's a girl, so that just adds to the glory. We'll get a front page out of this yet. And I mean before our divorce is finalized.
- [14:45]
Chris
Get out of my house.
- [14:47]
Mishke
All right. Get out of my house.
- [14:55]
Chris
All right.
- [14:57]
Mishke
Imagine a senior facility that doesn't try to be everything to all its residents because it's too busy being the absolute world to a very specific group of people. Those dealing with memory care issues. Most senior living centers have a memory care wing. At the Wellshire Memory Care center of Bloomington and Medina, the wing is the entire building. The Wellshire does one thing, and they do it with a level of mastery that's become a national model. They've identified the four distinct stages of memory loss and built four separate dedicated households to meet those needs. Walk through their doors, you'll find a living, breathing town square. Sun drenched gardens, balconies, a classic ice cream parlor, a cinema. You'll hear professional musicians singing. You'll find a library, a barbershop. It's an extraordinary environment built on a simple truth. When you focus on one thing, you have the clarity to do it better than anyone else. The Wellshire Memory Care Center.
- [16:05]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match, limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [16:26]
Mishke
Think of 1963. It was the year America decided they were going to go for it. Really put their nose to the grindstone and try to get to the moon. But at Fury Motors, they decided to do something harder. They decided to make people actually like car dealers. They have a kingdom there in South St. Paul, in Stillwater, offering Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, brand new vehicles. In Waconia, they're a temple to Ford. In Forest Lake, they're high priests of GMC and Buick. But here is the Fury miracle. If you ask me, they don't just sell those new cars, they perform a forensic resurrection on every make and model known to man. Yes, their used cars are the most beautiful used cars you'll ever see. By the time they're done. At Fury, used is just a word in the dictionary that won't apply to your driveway. There's a reason Fury has the highest customer satisfaction rating you'll ever come across. It's because they haven't changed their standards since the year gas was 30 cents a gallon and we were talking about possibly going to the moon. Fury Motors, the legend is real. Well, I think it's time to have a conversation. A man can only talk to himself so long before he needs human contact. So let's spin the big listener wheel and see who we come up with. Ga digga digga digga digga digga digga digga digga digga digga digga digga dig dig. Why, that name there says Chris. When you need a number, just use this. Dial it up and you'll find Chris. Is he home? It's hit and miss. Let's try Chris. Let's try Chris.
- [18:55]
Chris
This is Chris.
- [18:56]
Mishke
Well, Chris.
- [18:58]
Chris
Tommy. What's up, man?
- [19:00]
Mishke
Well, Long time. Wow, man. How long have you been on the old list?
- [19:06]
Chris
Oh, my gosh, I think I got on there. I had to be about seven, eight months ago, I think something like that.
- [19:12]
Mishke
Jumping Jehovah. Wow. It's interesting that your name is Chris. The guy across the street from me just got a big old German shepherd last week. Named him Chris.
- [19:25]
Chris
That seems out of the ordinary, but yeah, for a German shepherd, well, it's
- [19:29]
Mishke
really out of the ordinary because Chris is just what he calls him for short. He named him Chris Rasmussen.
- [19:38]
Chris
He really legitimized him.
- [19:39]
Mishke
But he calls him in at night and you see this big old wolf looking thing come running down the block. He doesn't keep them in the yard. He's all over the neighborhood. But he calls him in at dusk and you hear that Chris. Chris Rasmussen. And of course, all we can think of is how many different yards has he pooped in. Oh, the poor people will find out about that the following day because he's a big dog. And I find myself wondering if some people will react the way old Gary did. When I was growing up, Gary was our neighbor. He was a truck driver, over the road, trucker. And when our dog, who also had the run of the neighborhood, as all dogs did back then, they did, he particularly enjoyed crapping in Gary's yard. Gary's was his favorite yard, so he loved turning Gary's entire piece of property into a toilet. And back then, you know, you'd put up with a little of that. You don't put up with any of it anymore, but Gary would put up with a little of that, as people had to back then because we didn't know what to compare it to. We didn't know there were ever gonna be days like today. But Gary got fed up because I'm telling you, our dog only liked his yard. And one day we were getting ready to head out to the lake. Beautiful summer day, Friday afternoon, and we headed out to the station wagon, the old Chevy Capri station wagon. And by golly, the entire windshield was covered with dog crap. Oh, my gosh, I remember saying to the old man, what's that on the windshield, dad? Mother was commenting on the awful smell and whether we'd be dealing with that all the way to the cabin. And Pop was wondering whether he should stop by and maybe visit with Gary before we head out of town. Gary, I'm sure, was looking through his window, watching dad clean it. And the eight kids were in the car just asking mom to please roll up the windows. We, of Course didn't have air conditioning, so ordinarily we'd want those windows down. But on this 89 degree day, we wanted them up as high as they could go. We were willing to cook just to not have to smell that windshield after that. I can't recall what the new plan was with our dog. Pop said, is there any way at all you guys could steer that dog down to Dan and Carol's property? They're often gone during the summer. Where do you live?
- [22:01]
Chris
I'm in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
- [22:03]
Mishke
You're the first fella I've called since starting this show with that as his port of call.
- [22:10]
Chris
Belly of the beast here, Green Bay. You know, packers and everything.
- [22:14]
Mishke
So how'd you end up there?
- [22:16]
Chris
I took a promotion. I was in Milwaukee for 15 years and I said, there's a position open in Green Bay at the air traffic control tower. So I took it and I've been here for over 10 years now.
- [22:28]
Mishke
The idea of a Green Bay air traffic control guy just screams SNL bit. I have you in your chair and your chair looks a lot like a La Z. Boy. Sure, you can see some planes out there, but you're not even looking at them. I don't know what you're doing, but it involves beer. And those planes out that window are hitting each other and wings are falling off and people are screaming. And you're just easy going. Green Bay air traffic controller guy, you got chips and cheese and you're enjoying a cold one. You say to yourself, come on, these people are licensed pilots. They know if they see a plane out the window, they should move to the left or right. Do I gotta babysit these people? Look at the freeways. Everybody's doing just fine. There's. And they didn't have half the training these pilots had.
- [23:17]
Chuck/Mike
Right.
- [23:18]
Mishke
Is it called the Lombardy airport?
- [23:21]
Chris
No, it's Austin Straubel, a World War I hero, I think.
- [23:25]
Mishke
And it's an international airport.
- [23:28]
Chris
That's what they say. There's not a whole lot of international stuff going on there. But every once in a while they'll fly to Mexico or something.
- [23:35]
Mishke
Is it about the most laid back airport in America when it comes to the needs of air traffic control? Is it sort of like being a weatherman in San Diego?
- [23:44]
Chris
Right. There's only a handful of us here, you know, so it's people who've been here a long time like it. The new people just want to pass through and go on to bigger and better things. So the kids don't want to stay here. The young Guys, they want to move on to Florida or California or Chicago or something like that. Make the big dollars. Big dollars mean a lot to people.
- [24:03]
Mishke
When they're looking at you and your feet are up and you got your beer in your hand, and you're telling some plane, do what you got to do. Get back to me on where you landed, do they ever look at you and say, you know, he's got something going there?
- [24:15]
Chris
No, they just say, I want to move to San Diego. They don't want the winter here. They don't want low pay. They don't want either of those things.
- [24:23]
Mishke
Cold weather, low pay. What's not to like? You're in Green Bay, for God's sakes. What do the people of Green Bay, Wisconsin, think of their world? We're one to remove completely the Green Bay Packers.
- [24:39]
Chris
Oh, my gosh. There wouldn't be any reason for the airport or most of the other things that are here, because the Green Bay packers are the number one industry, so they're the reason for Green Bay.
- [24:52]
Mishke
Imagine, momentarily this autumn, a local version of a Pearl harbor day. It's a Japanese zero, just one flying over, and. And it takes out Lambeau and the entire team. They're all killed, and the stadium is vaporized. And the headlines in the paper the next day don't say, day of tragedy. It's actually blank. The paper's blank. Nobody knew what to write. They were actually so horrified by what they witnessed, they didn't put anything out. The paper was just blank. It arrived at the door, everybody picked it up, but nothing was there. And everybody said, something's wrong. What is it, Connie? Look at the paper. There's nothing written. Nothing. Surely there's something in the sports pages. No, that's especially blank. And then it would hit him. No, no, it can't be. You don't suppose. And they get in their car and they drive, and there everybody is just gathered around this crater. I don't know why the Japanese would be bombing Lambo.
- [25:59]
Chris
It's more of a religion up here than any place in the country. I think the packers rule almost like a church.
- [26:06]
Mishke
And is it true that they don't have a beard on Jesus in the churches where you see the crucifix because Lombardi didn't have a beard.
- [26:16]
Chris
I've never heard that, but it would not surprise me. I never heard that before.
- [26:21]
Mishke
Yeah, I heard that. Crucifixes that you find in churches. You won't see the beard on Jesus because Lombardi never had a beard and didn't like beards.
- [26:33]
Chris
Okay. If Green Bay was a religion, I guess Lombardi would be the Pope. It is a fascinating look at football culture because I can bike right by the old Vince Lombardi's house. It's a very unassuming house in the middle of a working class neighborhood. You know, those guys weren't big shots, just a standard looking house.
- [26:52]
Mishke
Are there people genuflecting around it or are there people hanging out looking in the windows? Anything going on there?
- [26:58]
Chris
There's a marker somewhere and it says, this is Vince Lombardi's house. But there's no. I don't think you can tour it or anything like that. I think somebody lives there.
- [27:07]
Mishke
Have you ever seen a plane crash?
- [27:10]
Chris
No, I've never even been close. There's been planes that have skidded off ends of runways.
- [27:15]
Mishke
Well, that's beer. But do you ever have a situation where you say, you know, because I just caught this right here, right here, right now, I prevented something awful from happening.
- [27:27]
Chris
I've never been in such a position where I could say my very action saved lives. Very boring job.
- [27:34]
Mishke
Most of the time it almost sounds like you're not needed.
- [27:38]
Chris
If you look at the radar screen and there's like six or seven aircraft coming around. They do need you.
- [27:43]
Mishke
So there have been six or seven planes coming in and they need you. So I'm going to go back to what I said earlier. If you were to crouch back down in that La Z Boy with your Miller Light and just let things happen, wouldn't chaos ensue?
- [27:59]
Chris
It absolutely would.
- [28:01]
Mishke
That is my point. That's why I'm saying you do things if you weren't doing them in that moment. Tragedy.
- [28:08]
Chris
Tragedy, yep. On a daily basis, yes. They could not function without us there.
- [28:13]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah.
- [28:13]
Mishke
That is not boring. Do people working the emergency room say, Well, a couple people came in after a car accident, but otherwise it was kind of boring here. We saved those lives. But no, you gotta give yourself credit here. Sure, it's Green Bay, and worst case scenario, those planes that do crash are just hauling beer. You're still saving a pilot and co pilot.
- [28:34]
Chuck/Mike
Yes, absolutely.
- [28:35]
Chris
I never, never thought of it quite like that. But yes, you're absolutely right.
- [28:39]
Mishke
Well, that's great. Are you married?
- [28:42]
Chris
Never married.
- [28:43]
Mishke
Never married, never did. How old are you?
- [28:46]
Chris
Like my brother, 58 now. I just had my birthday two days ago or something like that.
- [28:52]
Mishke
You're 58 years old, you've never married, you're going to ride it out solo all the way to the end?
- [28:58]
Chris
I think that would be a safe bet. Yeah.
- [29:01]
Mishke
And has that worked out okay for you?
- [29:03]
Chris
There's some things I could have done differently. There's some good women that were in my life, but it just. Either I was a jerk or it just didn't work out.
- [29:12]
Mishke
Is there a lament for a certain one that got away?
- [29:16]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah. Yeah.
- [29:17]
Mishke
Where did she end up?
- [29:19]
Chris
Mississippi somewhere. She got out of. She got out of the frozen north,
- [29:23]
Mishke
headed down to Mississippi, where it is flat and it is hot and there is not a lot going on. That's the poorest state we have out of the 50.
- [29:33]
Chris
Yeah.
- [29:34]
Mishke
Looked better than Green Bay. That is an indictment of Green Bay, Wisconsin. That endless flat land. Some crossroads where she sits in the summer at 110 degrees, wondering if this is where her life ends. Hopefully. She plays a musical instrument. People are often surprised to learn that there have been more Grammy Award winners from the state of Mississippi than from all the other states in the US Combined.
- [30:03]
Chris
That is an amazing fact.
- [30:04]
Mishke
It's some birthright. You're born and you're handed something. A fiddle, a banjo, a guitar, a harp, something. And there's a porch there where someone's playing something. And you better play along or at least sing or write something. Scribble out some notes. Hum, damn it. Whistle. That's Mississippi. You got the Mississippi Delta, which, of course, is a place where so much of the great music was born that this country produced. And all you have to do is head up north on that Delta, Delta till you get to Memphis, the top of the Mississippi Delta. Then you have these other influences, gospel coming in. And from the east of Tennessee, you got the mountain music coming and swirling together, and, my God. Memphis, Tennessee. I mean, you want to talk music? What town is mentioned in more songs than any town in the United States? Memphis, Tennessee.
- [30:58]
Chris
Okay.
- [30:59]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah.
- [31:01]
Chris
Impressive facts.
- [31:02]
Mishke
Well, I'll tell you, I'm gonna let you go. I've sure appreciated visiting with you.
- [31:07]
Chris
Oh, thank you for the call, Tommy. Maybe I'll see you at your cabin someday.
- [31:11]
Mishke
Wait, where are you talking?
- [31:13]
Chris
I'm Ray and Claire's kid. Jeanette's sister's kid.
- [31:21]
Mishke
You're Lonnie's kid?
- [31:24]
Chris
Yes. She hated going by that, but.
- [31:26]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah.
- [31:27]
Mishke
Oh, my God.
- [31:28]
Chris
I was going to remind you of all the mean things you used to do to me at the.
- [31:32]
Chuck/Mike
At the lake. Boy, you.
- [31:33]
Chris
You used to have a streak of mischievous.
- [31:37]
Mishke
I can't remember. Those days are a blur.
- [31:39]
Chris
We were in the rowboat and we were down by the lagoon. It was just you and I. And there was an Indian. And there was an Indian. And sitting out there and he was like, in his canoe and he had, like, a cloak around him and he was smoking. Just chilling. And you, you. You know, I didn't know nothing about Indians. And you said, be real quiet. If he sees us, he'll kill you. Or something like that. And you were just. You just wove a tale of evil and mayhem. And I remember I rammed the boat ashore and I jumped out of the boat and I started running. I remember you were laughing, saying, chris, get back in the boat. I was crying, oh, my gosh.
- [32:17]
Mishke
I think it's absolutely hilarious that I went this long talking to you without knowing you're my cousin. All I have is a first name. I've got nothing but a list of first names here. And I didn't recognize your voice. It's been too long since you've. No, of course not. Spoken.
- [32:32]
Chris
Yeah, we haven't spoken in a long, long time. I remember you and your brother Jerry and all the hijinks that would go on. Oh, man, so much fun.
- [32:41]
Mishke
Well, all my best to your family. Great visiting with you, Chris.
- [32:45]
Chris
Thank you very much, Tommy.
- [32:45]
Chuck/Mike
I loved it.
- [32:46]
Chris
Thanks for the call.
- [32:47]
Mishke
Yeah. I hope to see you soon. You be well, okay?
- [32:49]
Chris
You too.
- [32:50]
Mishke
Bye. Bye. Well, that's the damnedest thing. That's the first time I stumbled upon an actual relative. See you at the cabin, he says. And I'm thinking, why would I be seeing you there? I hope if he does get up to the cabin, that Indian's still around. Most big national banks out there are run by an algorithm these days. An algorithm in a skyscraper three time zones away. How cozy. To them, you aren't a neighbor, people, you're a number. You're a risk profile. A series of data points flickering on a cold LED screen. What happened to the neighborhood bank? It's still here, folks. It's known as North American Banking Company. The guy who started it, his dad was a banker. His grandpa was a banker. His great grandfather was a banker. And they all loved that neighborhood banking feel. They have six locations across the Twin Cities in six neighborhoods. When you walk in for a home loan, they don't start by opening a spreadsheet. They start with a conversation, with a handshake. Because a number on a page can't tell anything about your character. A computer can't see your work ethic. Come see North American Banking Company Member, fdic. Equal Housing Lender.
- [34:23]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Pricing coverage match, limited by state law. Not available in all states. When you run a business, there are a lot of boxes to check.
- [34:47]
Mishke
Let's see. Payroll, check. Inventory, check. Insurance. Ugh.
- [34:52]
Narrator/Advertiser
Well, good things. Simply Business makes getting small business insurance fast and easy. Just answer a few questions, review your quotes and get covered in under 10 minutes, all online. It's that simple. Check insurance. Off your list@simplybusiness.com.
- [35:29]
Chris
612-819-0801 is not available.
- [35:38]
Mishke
There's something about your voice that I like. The way you say those numbers. And it is the way you say them, not the numbers themselves. I just like the way you voice those numbers. It intrigues me. You intrigue me, the way you speak. Give me some more numbers. Doesn't matter. What numbers? Any numbers.
- [36:04]
Chris
One. Two. One.
- [36:06]
Mishke
Yes.
- [36:07]
Chris
Eight. One.
- [36:08]
Mishke
Yes. Nice one.
- [36:10]
Chris
Eight.
- [36:12]
Mishke
Very good. Do you have a significant other in your life? Someone you can call from time to time, late night and just recite numbers? Do they ever ask that? Are you ever in a romantic situation where someone says to you, how many fingers am I holding up, sweetheart? Now, how many? What are the odds of you and me spending a little time together?
- [36:43]
Chris
Zero.
- [36:45]
Mishke
All right, well, let's try someone else. No, I don't want to spin the big wheel. Where are the darts? Get the darts. I'm tossing them at the names on the wall. Let's see who we got. I didn't hit anything. Try again. Ha, ha. Chuck. Nailed you. Let's call Chuck.
- [37:29]
Chuck/Mike
Hello, this is Chuck.
- [37:30]
Mishke
Well, hello, Chuck.
- [37:33]
Chuck/Mike
Oh, boy.
- [37:35]
Mishke
Oh, boy is right. You must have thought to yourself, should I take this call or should I pass this time around?
- [37:49]
Chuck/Mike
I looked at it, but you cannot answer.
- [37:52]
Mishke
So you were forced to by circumstances, but not by your heart, not by your true desire. More out of guilt?
- [38:00]
Chuck/Mike
A little bit.
- [38:01]
Mishke
You're not filling me with great confidence right now. And of course, the tone in your voice when you recognize that it was me spoke volumes. I don't know what I can do to deliver the kind of call that will make you feel grateful. I did dial you up today. I fear regret is gonna follow you the rest of your days. You know, Chuck, I've often wanted to ask someone with your name and this goes back decades. What's the difference, do you think, ultimately, between a guy who calls himself Chuck and one who calls himself Charles?
- [38:35]
Chuck/Mike
A good, distinguished gentleman. It's called Charles. And if you go the Charlie or Chuck route, you get a little slack.
- [38:42]
Mishke
You know, I notice you didn't go the Charlie route. Is there a big difference between a Charlie and a Chuck? I will say Charlie sounds a little more friendly. Chuck sounds like he could be friendly or he could be a bit curt, maybe even a bit dismissive. Sort of the way I thought you'd be when you started this call. I didn't have high expectations. And right now I'm thinking we can still salvage it, but I'm not sure. What do you think is the difference between a Charlie and a Chuck?
- [39:10]
Chuck/Mike
I'd say most people think I'm a good time Chuck.
- [39:13]
Mishke
They say you do become your name. They say names are so critically important because the name you give a child, the child will become that name. Where someone years down the road will say, that's a Nancy. There's no two ways about it. That is a Nancy. You wouldn't give her any other name. Look at that. Is she a Nancy or what? So there are guys saying that about you, but I'm not sure I know when they say, is that a Chuck? That is a Chuck. Now, if they said you're a Charlie, but you went with Chuck, and I'm just. It's throwing me a little Chuck. There's a finality to that name, Chuck. What do you do with your life?
- [39:51]
Chuck/Mike
I'm in the water and sewer business for a city.
- [39:55]
Mishke
So you're the municipal water and sewer guy?
- [39:59]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah.
- [40:00]
Mishke
I've never spoken to a municipal water and sewer guy. The sewer part of it, of course, is going to be what intrigues me. I understand water, but the sewer intrigues me. Do you actually get to get inside the sewers?
- [40:14]
Chuck/Mike
Every now and again. You see many interesting things. I'll tell you that.
- [40:18]
Mishke
What's interesting, for instance, a lot of telephones. Meaning they were flushed down the toilet?
- [40:25]
Chris
Yeah.
- [40:26]
Mishke
Why would you flush a cell phone down the toilet? I get the cell phone falling into the toilet. But why would you then flush it?
- [40:33]
Chuck/Mike
I don't know.
- [40:34]
Mishke
I'm not comfortable with the road we're going down. But the only reason you flush that toilet is because you didn't look down in there to see the phone in the toilet. And here's what I want to say about that. That means you used the toilet. And after you were finished using the toilet, you didn't look into the toilet. Now that's a kind of person. I don't know. That would be a different breed. I'm not saying we have to look. I'm saying it's natural Curiosity from the earliest days to look briefly before flushing. I think I'm on solid ground here. But there might be people out there who refuse to look, actually cannot look. And I've never thought about that till right now. The fact that cell phones are being routinely flushed tells me people are not looking. They do not want to see what they did, what they allowed to happen there. They don't want to know. They want to go through their life blissfully unaware that their body could possibly be involved in anything remotely resembling that. And they race out of the restrooms, and every one of those cell phones represents another one of those people who don't look. They just don't look. And you know who I think is their hero? You know who I think is their leader? He's gone now. God rest his soul. B.B. king. Do you know why I say B.B. king?
- [42:08]
Chuck/Mike
I do not.
- [42:10]
Mishke
Any ideas? He has a song, and the chorus is, better not look down if you want to keep on flying Better not look back or you might just wind up crying. BB Was one of those guys. He probably lost a dozen cell phones. Well, what else happens in the sewer?
- [42:35]
Chuck/Mike
Mostly it's just your common sewer. Backups from folks flushing things they shouldn't be. Nothing too major.
- [42:44]
Mishke
Do you have a favorite word
- [42:49]
Chuck/Mike
I like to say? Very good or what fun?
- [42:56]
Mishke
If you had asked me to guess, I don't think I would have ever arrived at those. Very good. And what fun. I would not have arrived at those words.
- [43:05]
Chuck/Mike
Penultimate. That's a smart one.
- [43:09]
Mishke
Cacophony is one I like to use.
- [43:11]
Chuck/Mike
How about hullabaloo?
- [43:13]
Mishke
There's a delightful word, hullabaloo.
- [43:16]
Chuck/Mike
A lot of days at work, it seems like a hullabaloo.
- [43:19]
Mishke
Have you ever found yourself wondering what you sound like to people from other countries? It's hard for us to get a sense of what we sound like because you'd have to hear the way you talk as gibberish. Because they're just hearing gibberish if they don't speak English. And I want to know what our gibberish sounds like. If I hear a German guy talking, I don't speak German, but if I attempted to, after listening to him, I would say, verstoenze getten zitriofen. He got leben. But what if you asked a German guy who didn't know English to pretend he knows English? What would he sound like? I've always wanted to know that.
- [43:56]
Chuck/Mike
That is very interesting. I think when I am out of the country, most people think I'm from Canada.
- [44:01]
Mishke
That was At a ball game out in San Francisco last summer where someone said to me, you Canadian?
- [44:06]
Chuck/Mike
You ever tell somebody you're from Baja Canada? That's what they call Minnesota. Like Baja Mexico, but we're Baja Canada.
- [44:13]
Mishke
Baja Canada. Well, I'll tell you, anytime anybody has asked me if I'm Canadian, it's always been okay by me. I've had nothing but great experiences up there. The people have been extraordinary. You know that the majority of the Canadian population exists south of northern Minnesota, right? The majority of Canada's population lives below northern Minnesota.
- [44:38]
Chuck/Mike
How does that work?
- [44:39]
Mishke
Look at a map sometime. The northern parts of Canada are not the populated parts. And the deep south of Canada is often south of portions of the United States. The real populated areas of Canada are south of northern Minnesota.
- [44:54]
Chuck/Mike
I get what you mean, because it's got those dips to it. Yeah, I was thinking you were just feeding me a line.
- [44:59]
Mishke
That's why when I run into certain Canadians who brag about their winter as being quite a bit more harsh, I say, let's first determine where you live, pal. I don't think it's more harsh than Ely, Minnesota. Based on where you live. Looking at this map right here, I'd say you're south of the good folks of Ely. Yeah, those Canadians aren't idiots. They went south, all of them, as far south as they could. You get up north, you get into native country, and that's a whole different world. Are you married?
- [45:26]
Chuck/Mike
I was once, but I am not anymore.
- [45:28]
Mishke
Do you date?
- [45:30]
Chuck/Mike
I've got a lovely girlfriend. We've been together for a long time.
- [45:33]
Mishke
Was she married before?
- [45:35]
Chuck/Mike
No, she was not.
- [45:37]
Mishke
How old was she when you two first started dating?
- [45:40]
Chuck/Mike
41.
- [45:42]
Mishke
Another woman who was finding the field out there void of decent guys.
- [45:49]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah.
- [45:49]
Mishke
Another woman resigning to the idea of spending the rest of her life alone at 40 years of age. She had found nobody worth marrying.
- [45:58]
Chuck/Mike
I think she had somebody, but it
- [46:00]
Mishke
went south because he was a lout. He was a loser. He was a no good knucklehead, nitwit, moon calf, lame brain. Didn't she occasionally say to you, it's rough out there for a girl like me?
- [46:15]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah, it is.
- [46:16]
Mishke
What's happened? Was it always this way with the fellas?
- [46:21]
Chuck/Mike
No, not a lot of folks are getting married anymore. It seems like.
- [46:24]
Mishke
I just fear if I went out there with a microphone and went talking to young guys, I'd say something like, hey, got a girlfriend? And they'd say, no, no, no, no, I'm into porn.
- [46:41]
Chuck/Mike
Honestly, the Internet have not done a Lot of good for relationships, I think. You got your AI buddy who needs a girlfriend anymore.
- [46:50]
Mishke
And as this AI becomes more and more sophisticated. Where will we be in 10 years? Will it be the case that there won't be any guy any of us know who's actually with a real woman? What is the future going to look like, Chuck? What are we facing in a few years? Are you ready for it?
- [47:13]
Chuck/Mike
Well, I think I am. Just because I'm a little older. So I've kind of established meeting a human.
- [47:21]
Mishke
You know the advantage you have going into the future? If it really gets bad, you're a sewer guy. When it gets too bad out there, that sewer is waiting. And you understand those places? I don't know anything about them. I don't know where I can go. I don't know how to access any of that stuff. You probably understand all of it. There's an underground world you're familiar with and can escape to. I'll never know. Do you ever say to your gal, if things go south, this is where I want you to meet me? And you have this intersection, maybe under a manhole cover. And she knows how to get there. And you've got your go bag. Do you have anything like that?
- [47:56]
Chuck/Mike
I don't yet.
- [47:57]
Mishke
I better let you go. I know you got stuff to do. I appreciate you bothering to talk to me. I know it was a coin flip. I'm glad it landed on tails. Tails never fails. And I don't think this call did mischie.
- [48:09]
Chuck/Mike
On the day of the 23rd of March, 2026. You've made it. Great. And I appreciate you calling me.
- [48:15]
Mishke
That's wonderful to hear. Thank you so much, Chuck. Good talking to you. Hope to talk to you again sometime.
- [48:20]
Chuck/Mike
Take care.
- [48:24]
Mishke
I want you people to do me a favor. If you need a plumber, if you need an air conditioning person, if you need a furnace or boiler guy, I want you to call the place where my lifelong pal has been working forever. St. Paul, Minneapolis Plumbing, heating and air. This is my oldest friend in the world. We've been buddies since we were seven. First guy I ever invited to my very first birthday party when I was a kid. And he's a Minneapolis, St. Paul plumbing, heating and air guy. And he's the salt of the earth. And whenever you call these guys for whatever you need, I want you to mention this show, It Matters. Let them know where you learn about them. They're offering a $49 furnace tune up right now. A wonderful thing to do at the end of a winter to keep Your furnace in tip top shape for next fall. And just by getting that $49 furnace tune up, you qualify for a drawing where you could win a brand new Weber grill from Fratelloni's.
- [49:18]
Narrator/Advertiser
Running a business means checking a lot of boxes.
- [49:21]
Mishke
Let's see. Payroll, check. Inventory, check. Insurance.
- [49:25]
Narrator/Advertiser
Ah, good things. Simply Business makes getting small business insurance fast and easy. Check insurance off your list@simplybusiness.comt wear.
- [49:34]
Mishke
Let them know you heard about MSP on Mishke's show. I want my pal to call me and tell me that. Minneapolis St. Paul Plumbing, heating and air.
- [49:59]
Chuck/Mike
Is this Mishki?
- [50:01]
Mishke
Mike.
- [50:04]
Chuck/Mike
Hi, Misky.
- [50:05]
Mishke
Hi, Mike.
- [50:07]
Chris
Hello.
- [50:08]
Mishke
Where'd you get a name like that? Where the hell's a name like that come from, Mike? It's such a funny sound when it comes out of my mouth. Mike, what are you doing? Mike?
- [50:18]
Chuck/Mike
I am working today.
- [50:20]
Mishke
I'm gonna guess what you do for a living. Surface pollution control engineer for three.
- [50:25]
Chuck/Mike
Mmm, no.
- [50:27]
Mishke
What is it?
- [50:28]
Chuck/Mike
I do it work for an online company that helps students grade school through high school.
- [50:35]
Mishke
Are online companies real? Yeah. How does one know that anything's real online? You know what I'm saying? Well, we're gonna jettison right out of your work life and straight into your personal life. Are you with a significant other?
- [50:51]
Chuck/Mike
Indeed I am. She's the one that gave you my number and told you to call me.
- [50:55]
Mishke
Oh, she volunteered your number. Did she give me her own?
- [50:58]
Chuck/Mike
No, she didn't.
- [50:59]
Mishke
Well, that two bit, no good. Second rate. What the hell is that? Here I am longing for women to be added to the listener list. It's 97.4% men, and she calls up to give your number to me. Not her own, right? Let's say I was talking to her. What's her first name?
- [51:20]
Chuck/Mike
Susan.
- [51:21]
Mishke
Susan. Hi, it's Mishke calling. Are you married?
- [51:24]
Chuck/Mike
Yes, Mishke, I am married to the most wonderful man in the world.
- [51:27]
Mishke
Tell me about him.
- [51:28]
Chuck/Mike
Does special favorites with me all the time. Surprises me. Makes me laugh. All that good stuff.
- [51:33]
Mishke
Where'd you meet?
- [51:34]
Chuck/Mike
We were friends of friends for a long time. And then after my husband, me got divorced, you know, one thing led to another, and now we are very happily married.
- [51:50]
Mishke
What did you see in him when you first met him?
- [51:52]
Chuck/Mike
He was just a nice guy.
- [51:54]
Chris
Good friend.
- [51:55]
Mishke
Is it that rough out there? Is it that bad that just a nice guy's enough? Now, I wanted you to say he made me laugh. I need a man who can make me laugh. Or you could be more cold about it and say, you know he had the kind of money that I knew would provide a comfortable life for me.
- [52:15]
Chuck/Mike
That part is not correct, Mickey.
- [52:17]
Mishke
Okay, then maybe it would have been. He reminded me of my daddy.
- [52:22]
Chuck/Mike
Uh, I don't think that would be it either.
- [52:24]
Mishke
Well, maybe we'll go this direction. He was a bad boy. And I've always been attracted to the dark side.
- [52:30]
Chuck/Mike
Not really.
- [52:31]
Mishke
God, I'd like to call her and find out what the devil she saw in you. What's she doing right now?
- [52:35]
Chuck/Mike
You know what? She would love to talk to you. We are big fans of yours going way, way back. And your road show was one of our favorite things to listen to as we were, as we're driving around or out camping or what have you. Loved it.
- [52:48]
Mishke
I'm glad.
- [52:49]
Chuck/Mike
Thank you for the years of entertainment.
- [52:50]
Mishke
I'm glad you brought up the Roadshow. I want to make an announcement regarding the roadshow. Not that it matters to that many people out there, but as of April 1, the roadshow will no longer be accessible. I've been paying to keep it up month after month, even though there's no revenue coming from it anymore. You know, I've moved on to this job and so there's no income from the Roadshow. So I've been paying month after month to leave it up, just as a favor to those people who maybe need to get caught up or want to hear all of them, but haven't had time to get to them all. But it's been over a year now, and I don't want to pay for it anymore when there's no money being drawn from it. So as of April 1st, I'm no longer going to pay to keep it online, which means it will disappear. The reason I'm making this announcement is there is a feature with each of those road shows where one can download them. If there's one you see and looks interesting and you want to download it to listen to five years from now, download it. But otherwise they're all going to be gone. It's just time to move on. And I'm at peace with them all disappearing. Much like my radio career came and went. Think of all those shows at KSTP that are gone. I'm used to the idea. I'm used to the idea of audio coming along and disappearing. It's okay that it won't be accessible anymore. One day the sun will burn out. None of this will be accessible anymore. So let's make peace with it. The shows that you didn't hear well, how great were they? Not that great were they horrible. No, but is it important for you to fit them in before your death? No. They will be there till the 1st of April and then adios to those programs. Now back to you and your wife. How long you been together?
- [54:41]
Chuck/Mike
14 years.
- [54:42]
Mishke
Do you have any children?
- [54:44]
Chuck/Mike
No children.
- [54:45]
Mishke
And you're never going to have any?
- [54:47]
Chuck/Mike
No.
- [54:48]
Mishke
Did you make that decision before going down the aisle?
- [54:51]
Chuck/Mike
I was previously married, and by the time we got married, we were, like, in our late 40s, so it was just not gonna happen.
- [55:02]
Mishke
When she met you, you were married.
- [55:05]
Chuck/Mike
Correct.
- [55:06]
Mishke
Did you get divorced so you could be with her?
- [55:09]
Chuck/Mike
No.
- [55:09]
Mishke
When you met her and you were married, did you say, by golly, I might have married the wrong gal? The one right there is the one I should have been heading down the aisle with.
- [55:19]
Chuck/Mike
I would say I was attracted to her and really enjoyed the time when we were all together as friends.
- [55:24]
Mishke
That's an interesting little threading of the needle there. I was attracted to her. I enjoyed the time we were together. Attracted has this quality that says, I want a little more than I'm getting.
- [55:38]
Chuck/Mike
I.
- [55:39]
Mishke
Was she married?
- [55:40]
Chuck/Mike
No, she was not.
- [55:41]
Mishke
So she's this single woman. You're married, you're attracted to her, and you're saying, but I'm married. I need to get those thoughts out of my head.
- [55:51]
Chuck/Mike
Yes.
- [55:51]
Mishke
Were you successful chasing them away? And how many drinks would it take? Now I want you to get back into the skin of Susan. I'm asking Susan. When you saw this fella married, did you say to yourself, boy, I wish he were single?
- [56:06]
Chuck/Mike
No. I thought he was a very nice guy, but I didn't have any designs on him at that time.
- [56:11]
Mishke
Nice guy is not nearly as interesting as finding him attractive.
- [56:17]
Chris
Right.
- [56:18]
Mishke
So it sounded like you maybe were a little more into her than she was into you.
- [56:22]
Chuck/Mike
Possibly, yeah.
- [56:24]
Mishke
Interesting. So did you make the first move when you were free?
- [56:28]
Chuck/Mike
Yes.
- [56:29]
Mishke
Was it four minutes after the signing of the divorce or ten? Or how long? She waited? A long time for marriage number one. Are you sure she hadn't found someone along the line that she had wanted more than you?
- [56:41]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah. She just never thought she was gonna get married.
- [56:44]
Mishke
There are some wastelands out there when it comes to guys. I mean, it sounds tougher and tougher to find a decent guy. That's the sense I'm getting. I'm hearing a lot of that and very little of it's hard to find a good woman. Mostly what I'm hearing is it's hard to find a decent guy. You know what's getting the blame?
- [57:03]
Chuck/Mike
The Internet.
- [57:04]
Mishke
The manosphere.
- [57:06]
Chuck/Mike
The manosphere? What the heck is that?
- [57:07]
Mishke
You don't know what the manosphere is? No, the manosphere is what you can find if you spend any time on social media. It's the modern world of young guys. Something happened along the way, and they're just lost. They're lost in their search for masculinity. They're lost in their search for meaning. They're lost in understanding how to be around a woman. They're just lost somewhere. Something happened to the young men out there. I feel for them and I fear for them. And my compassion is really for the young women out there who I think should maybe do some traveling overseas, see what else is out there. Do you ever have one of these things where you have this magical moment in a day where you're just unbelievably happy and you're hanging out together and you're both just thrilled, but what you're doing is really kind of silly, and you couldn't really explain to people why you're so happy doing this, but you are. And it's just something you kind of keep to the two of you.
- [58:15]
Chuck/Mike
Oh, Misky. I have those all the time. I wonder what's wrong with me sometimes. As a matter of fact, this last Sunday, it was a day at home, and we were just cleaning the kitchen, putting stuff away, reorganizing pots and pans, and I was thinking to myself, I am just so happy right now.
- [58:30]
Mishke
It is strange, isn't it, when you're about as happy as you can be and nothing really that extraordinary is happening. It's just life itself. But you're sort of at the end of the road. You're there. You've reached the summit. There is no book you could write talking people into this as the experience that would most give their life meaning. And yet there it is right there. That's a toughie. I think one day somebody should write a book called I Don't get it, but this is Fun. Or it could be called Finding Meaning in the Meaningless. Or it could be called why the Best Time of My Life Was Doing Dishes Late Night with My Wife. I don't know. What did you want to be when you were a kid? Major league baseball player just like every other kid.
- [59:22]
Chuck/Mike
No, no. Never really wanted to be any kind of a sports.
- [59:26]
Mishke
You were a theater kid?
- [59:28]
Chuck/Mike
It wasn't really theater, but music and played in a band, that kind of stuff.
- [59:32]
Mishke
You played in a band? What'd you play?
- [59:35]
Chuck/Mike
Guitar.
- [59:35]
Mishke
Do you still.
- [59:36]
Chuck/Mike
Yeah, my high school buddies and I are still in a band.
- [59:41]
Mishke
If I was talking to Susan right now, she would say, the first thing I liked about him was he was a musician. I watched him play guitar, and I got powerfully turned on. That's what she would say. You wrote her a little song. Admit it.
- [59:55]
Chuck/Mike
I have written her several songs. Probably eight or so.
- [60:00]
Mishke
Really? Boy, I bet if I heard all eight in a row, I'd get a pretty good picture of this galaxy. It'd be great if, during an interview, she could say to the guy, you know, rather than continue this interrogation, why don't I just have my husband play the eight songs he wrote about me, and you decide if you want a gal like that working here or not. Mike, get in here and play those eight songs for this bozo. Sorry to call you that, sir, but your questions are getting to me. Mike, bring your guitar. Mike's gonna play. No, no, no. Put that pen and paper away. Mike, sing for him. Tell him about me. Anyway, I'll let you go.
- [60:33]
Chuck/Mike
Misky, thank you for calling me. It has been a pleasure talking to you. I hope I get to talk to you again sometime. And thanks for the years of entertainment.
- [60:40]
Mishke
Thanks for saying that, Mike. I hope I get to talk to you again as well. And if she feels like it, have your wife text the show and throw her number on the list.
- [60:48]
Chuck/Mike
Will do.
- [60:49]
Mishke
All right, sir.
- [60:50]
Chuck/Mike
All right. Have a good one.
- [60:51]
Mishke
Thank you. So long.