E6 - Tell Me Everything

Summary

Podcast Summary: Gardens of Evil: Inside the Zion Society Cult

Episode 6: Tell Me Everything
Host: Aaron Mason (American Nightmares)
Date: March 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this pivotal episode, Aaron Mason unpacks the aftermath of the shocking 1991 police raid on the Zion Society—a cult hidden behind the façade of a tidy suburban neighborhood in Ogden, Utah. The episode explores the hurdles investigators and survivors faced in exposing the cult’s systemic sexual abuse, the psychological conditioning that kept children silent, and the dogged pursuit and eventual arrest of cult leader Arvin Shreve. Through in-depth interviews with survivors and law enforcement, the episode illuminates the courage required to break the cycle of abuse and bring the truth to light.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Raid and Initial Fallout

• Police Action & Media Frenzy
  • On August 2, 1991, Ogden police raided five Zion Society homes, rescuing nine children ([01:10]-[01:20]).
  • The leader, Arvin Shreve, was missing, while neighbors and media speculated about the “tight knit” group ([01:33]-[02:33]).
• Strategy for Arrests
  • Law enforcement focused first on capturing Arvin, the “head of the snake,” delaying the prosecution of other adults for potential plea deals and testimony ([02:35]-[03:55]).
  • Detective Mike King noted the complexities: “We wanted to focus on the head of the snake first...building cases against other members of the group.” ([02:41])

2. Inside the Cult—Impressions and Tactics

• Garden Façade & Cult Playbook
  • Reporter Mike Watkis describes the neighborhood’s surreal beauty, like “the Emerald City” from The Wizard of Oz ([05:11]).
  • He highlights universal cult tactics: isolation, manipulation, and leader worship ([06:31]).

    “You strip it away, it's Koresh, it's Jim Jones, it's separating people from families...all of this is cult 101.” – Mike Watkis ([06:31])

  • The real heroes, Watkis argues, are the women who escape and sound the alarm—emphasizing survivor agency over male “savior” narratives ([07:15]-[08:12]).

3. Coercion and the Silence of Survivors

• Initial Survivor Accounts: Anessa & Carrie

  • Anessa, 11 during the raid, details confusion and the deep “duty” she felt to protect the group, not speak out, and the complexity of her abuse ([12:34]-[16:09]).

    “I didn’t say anything because I was supposed to protect people.” – Anessa ([13:40])

  • Anessa regrets not naming her abusers outside of Arvin, fearing others may have been harmed ([16:09]).
  • Carrie, 15 at the time, describes being rigorously coached on misleading authorities, actively refusing to cooperate ([19:46]-[20:39]).

    “We had these interrogation sessions where they would pretend like they were the interrogator...you would act like you didn’t know what they were talking about...” – Carrie ([19:46])

• Psychological Conditioning

  • Survivors were taught the outside world was evil, and that disclosure equaled betrayal.
  • Carrie discusses the emotional trauma of separation from her mother and systematic emotional abuse ([24:06]-[25:43]).

4. The Children's Justice Center: A New Approach

• A pioneering, child-centered facility enabled safer, more effective interviews ([16:20]-[18:52]).
  • “It was just a safe, private, wonderful place...” ([17:58])

5. Break in the Case: The Hunt for Arvin

• Survivor Revelation—Carrie Was With Arvin
  • Carrie reveals she was with Arvin at a remote location when the raid happened, due to a tip-off ([29:09]-[29:45]).

    “Yeah, I was with him.” – Carrie ([29:09])

• Leak and Evidence Destruction
  • A cult member, recognizing PI Cheryl Naugle from a TV segment, alerted the group, leading to the destruction of evidence before police arrived ([31:01]-[31:41]).

6. Arvin Shreve’s Surrender & Confession

• The Manhunt

  • Arvin turned himself in three days later in Cedar City, Utah ([32:50]-[33:04]).
  • Detectives King and Lucas raced to pick him up, sharing candid moments to build rapport ([33:16]-[40:49]).

• Tactics for Eliciting Confession

  • Detectives leveraged small talk and subtle religious references to coax Arvin into conversation, careful not to violate his right to counsel ([41:10]-[44:37]).
  • Arvin appeared eager to tell “his side,” ultimately waiving his right to an attorney for the sake of a taped confession ([45:36]-[47:01]).

• Content of the Confession

  • Arvin offered manipulative justifications, blaming children for the abuse, and denied coercion ([51:33]-[54:41]).

    “All contact was initiated by the children...The purpose...was not lust...but bonding in the building of a closeness within...an eternal family unit.” – Arvin Shreve ([52:05]-[53:29])

  • He denied any “improper” acts with boys despite evidence to the contrary. Over more than three hours, he confessed to 30 felony sex abuse charges ([55:05]).

• Final Admission

  • When asked about the frequency of abuse:

    “It was a daily thing...If I asked you what you had for breakfast last Thursday, you wouldn't know. You would know you had breakfast, just not what or where.” – Arvin Shreve ([56:44])

7. Ongoing Impact and Survivor Strength

• Survivors like Carrie continue to battle trauma decades later; she discusses reclaiming power and agency through honesty and physical strength ([21:27]-[23:00]).

  “When something is hidden, it gives it power...It took away the power...by talking about it.” – Carrie ([21:27])

• Mike King credits two pivotal figures for the case's success: Erin Anderson, who blew open the investigation, and a yet-introduced 15-year-old survivor whose testimony became central to the trial ([55:31]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Cult’s Methods:

  “Abusers, whether they're cult leaders or bad bosses or abusive boyfriends, they all use the same playbook.” – Mike Watkis ([06:11])

• On Survivor Heroism:

  “The heroes have always been the brave women who get the hell out. And they say hell no. And they've changed history.” – Mike Watkis ([07:15])

• On Psychological Manipulation:

  “We were told the outside world would never understand us and that we had to keep all that stuff private...” – Anessa ([14:43])

• On Power in Disclosure:

  “If people asked, it made them uncomfortable. That's on them...When something is hidden, it gives it power.” – Carrie ([21:17]-[21:27])

• On Arvin’s Justification of Abuse:

  “There was never any element of force, coercion, or persuasion. All contact was initiated by the children...it was not lust...but bonding...” – Arvin Shreve ([53:01])

• On Frequency of Abuse:

  “It was a daily thing...If I asked you what you had for breakfast last Thursday, you wouldn't know...” – Arvin Shreve ([56:44])

• On the Nature of the Offense:

  “He built this entire religion to satisfy his pedophilia and then convinced others of it to fuel his fantasies and his desires.” – Aaron Mason ([54:41])

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Police Raid & Media Coverage: [01:10]-[02:33]
• Watkis on Cult Psychology & Gendered Narratives: [06:11]-[08:12]
• First Survivor (Anessa) Perspective: [12:34]-[16:09]
• Children’s Justice Center Innovation: [16:20]-[19:46]
• Carrie on Brainwashing & Loyalty: [19:46]-[21:38]
• Trauma and Power (Carrie): [21:17]-[23:00]
• Mother-Daughter Dynamics, Emotional Abuse: [24:06]-[25:43]
• Coaching Children to Lie: [19:46]-[20:48]
• Survivor tip-off & Evidence Destruction: [29:01]-[31:41]
• Arvin’s Surrender & Interrogation: [32:50]-[55:05]
• Arvin’s Confession / Manipulative Testimony: [51:00]-[54:41]
• End Reflection & Next Episode Tease: [55:31]-[56:44]

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Tone & Language

The episode is uncompromising and empathetic, balancing the harrowing realities of abuse with deep respect for the resilience of survivors. Law enforcement voices are methodical and sometimes world-weary, while survivors bring raw honesty. The focus remains survivor-centered, pushing back against sensationalism in favor of nuanced storytelling.

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Conclusion

Episode 6 peels back the façade of a “picture-perfect” community to expose the trauma, complexity, and eventual triumph involved in dismantling the Zion Society. Through firsthand accounts and investigatory insight, listeners gain a comprehensive picture of the barriers to justice, the power dynamics within cults, and the indomitable courage of those who choose to speak the truth.

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If You Need Help

If you or someone you know is experiencing sexual violence, contact RAINN.org or call the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 800-656-HOPE for free, confidential support 24/7.

Transcript

[Aaron Mason]

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[Narrator / Host]

the subject matter in this podcast is difficult, including sexual abuse of adults and children. While the more graphic details will be left out, the specifics can be triggering. Please take care when listening

[Aaron Mason]

Ogden police raided five homes and took nine children into protective custody today after allegations surfaced the children were being abused.

[Narrator / Host]

Minutes after law enforcement raided a number of Zion Society homes on the morning of August 2, 1991, the media descended on the Northwoods subdivision, among them KSL news reporter Larry Lewis.

[Aaron Mason]

Neighbors describe the people on this street as a tight knit group. Some call them polygamists, an accusation they deny. We don't consider ourselves a cult, a church of any kind. According to court records, someone within that very group came forward complaining that the adults were showing children a pornographic videotape. The tape was described as sexually explicit and used as an instructional tool for the children. This morning's search focused on finding that tape and other evidence of child abuse. Police won't say much about the case and won't confirm if they found the alleged tape investigation still ongoing and it

[Narrator / Host]

substantiates the allegations that were made. The cops were tight lipped. They were still in the process of gathering evidence from inside the homes. And with the case being so far cloaked in secrecy, the law enforcement had to be extremely careful about keeping information from getting out that might tip their hand. After all, the man they went in to apprehend the group's leader, Arvin Shreve, was nowhere to be found.

[Aaron Mason]

Police have made no arrests.

[Narrator / Host]

On the day of the raid, Detective Mike King had an arrest warrant for just one person, Arvin.

[Aaron Mason]

We wanted to focus on the head of the snake first and foremost, but we already had been building cases against other members of the group.

[Narrator / Host]

So far there was evidence to support arresting several of the adults in the Zion Society. But in a sensitive case like this, with so many layers and moving pieces and so much at stake. The ramifications of every decision had to be considered.

[Aaron Mason]

You look at a patrol officer who sees a guy inside of a business burglarizing it at 3 o' clock in the morning, it's pretty easy to put the handcuffs on him, take him to jail and charge him with burglary.

[Narrator / Host]

But this case was not so cut and dry.

[Aaron Mason]

For instance, we still questioned how much coercion was occurring in the adult women, even though they were involved in predatory behavior, how much of that was coercive and placed on them because of Arvin.

[Narrator / Host]

There were also prosecutorial strategies to think about.

[Aaron Mason]

If they could take a negotiated plea and offer testimony against Arvin. It proved much more valuable than immediately going in and putting them in the adversarial role of being a defendant right from the start.

[Narrator / Host]

So the pursuit of the other adults would remain on the to do list. Now, in the immediate aftermath of the raid, Mike had two urgent tasks. One was unexpected. He had to find and apprehend the now vanished cult leader. The other was to talk with the children who had been removed that morning from their abusive environments and placed into protective custody. As Mike headed off to where the children were being interviewed, the news media continued to arrive at the once quiet neighborhood of Northwood. One such reporter was Mike Watkis, a broadcast journalist and cult expert who grew up in northern Utah. He worked in local news early in his career and in 1991 was living in New York City producing stories for the popular syndicated show A Current Affair.

[Mike Watkis]

Because of my link to Utah, whenever one of these kind of stories would come up, that was my beat. I got on a plane and, you know, got back to Salt Lake and hooked up with a crew that I knew, and we went up to that neighborhood.

[Narrator / Host]

As he entered the Northwood subdivision, even knowing about some of the rotten things that happened inside of the cult's homes, Watkis said their outsides, those gardens, were breathtaking.

[Mike Watkis]

It really was mind blowing. You know, it was like the wizard of Oz. You were in Kansas at one moment and you turned around a corner and suddenly you're in this. In this cul de sac. And you realized, I'm in the Emerald City. I mean, it really was like from a black and white movie to, you know, full Technicolor.

[Narrator / Host]

But unlike Dorothy and her companions, Watkus and his crew weren't exactly welcomed in.

[Mike Watkis]

As soon as we get there, we're confronted by some male follower. I think it may have been Arvin's son.

[Aaron Mason]

Do you want me to Destroy that camera for you.

[Mike Watkis]

Not very much.

[Aaron Mason]

Then get it out of here.

[Mike Watkis]

So, yeah, that was our greeting.

[Narrator / Host]

Watkus was not intimidated. This wasn't the first abusive cult he'd set his sights on, and it most certainly wouldn't be his last.

[Mike Watkis]

I've been chasing, covering, tracking down, trying to find guys like Arvind Shreve for better part of 45, nearly 50 years.

[Narrator / Host]

When I sat down to interview him, Watkis very quickly mentioned something I think is an important takeaway from this whole story. Abusers, whether they're cult leaders or bad bosses or abusive boyfriends, they all use the same playbook. Arvin, he told me, was nothing special.

[Mike Watkis]

I mean, you strip it away, it's Koresh, it's Jim Jones, it's separating people from families. It's telling them, I am your only way. Anybody else is wrong and evil. You know, all of this is cult 101.

[Narrator / Host]

He said the embellishments will differ from cult leader to cult leader. Arvin had his sweet old man facade and carried out his perversions right under his suburban neighbors noses. Others buy bentleys or orchestrate drug fueled orgies or convince their followers to drink cyanide laced flavor aid. But those provocative details, the ones that often grab our attention, are really just empty calories.

[Mike Watkis]

It's the interesting part, but it does such a great disservice. We tell the stories and I've done this. We tell the stories of Arvind Shreve. And warrant you, these Lauses are just nickel and dime con men. They just all got a shtick going. The stories that are to be told are the always women who get out and start raising hell. A few reporters have told their stories, A few cops have taken their stories seriously. But over the course of time, not nearly enough has been done. But the real heroes in this, it ain't John Wayne riding in and saving the day. That is a false misogynistic narrative of this story. Imposing some, you know, great male figure saving it. You know, there have been a few men who have stepped up. Mike King took it seriously, made a difference. The heroes have always been the brave women who get the hell out. And they say hell no. And they've changed history.

[Narrator / Host]

Women like Erin Anderson, who first brought this case to light by walking into a police station and after at great risk to herself, exposed the horrors occurring inside the Zion society. Erin's aunt Judy, who was relentless in supporting her niece and encouraged her to tell her story. Cheryl Naugle, the private investigator's wife who went undercover into the belly of the Beast to gather evidence that not only got Jeff Peterson's kids out of the cult, but helped open the door for all the other children to be saved from their abusers. And there are more, many you haven't been introduced to yet because so far they've been locked away inside the cult's homes. But now they've been rescued from their captors and can speak to those of us in the outside world. So as we move forward, you'll hear from more of the survivors of the Zion Society, their stories in their words, as the quest for justice and the absent Arvin Shreve continues. I'm Aaron Mason, and this is Gardens of Evil Inside the Zion Society Cult Episode 6 Tell Me Everything.

[Aaron Mason]

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[Narrator / Host]

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[Carrie]

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[Narrator / Host]

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[Carrie]

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[Narrator / Host]

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[Carrie]

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[Narrator / Host]

Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because

[Carrie]

she wasn't able to find adequate care

[Narrator / Host]

for this autistic child.

[Carrie]

So she really needed some help with

[Narrator / Host]

living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help

[Carrie]

support them during this crisis, and we

[Narrator / Host]

raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous

[Carrie]

donations from people who were really moved

[Narrator / Host]

by the situation that this family was struggling with. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform trusted by over 200 million people. Start your GoFundMe today at gofundme.com that's

[Anessa]

gofundme.com gofundme.com this podcast is supported by GoFundMe.

[Narrator / Host]

The children were in protective custody. For now, law enforcement only had a short amount of time to gather as much information as they could about each child's experience in order to use that evidence to charge and arrest their abusers and to keep the kids from going back to them. Remember, in nearly all of these cases, it was their own parents who either committed or facilitated the sexual abuse. But if the kids wouldn't talk, their abusers might escape retribution, perhaps entirely. Meet Anessa, one of the Zion Society children.

[Anessa]

I haven't said anything. I'm not saying anything. And things are a lot worse than anybody knows.

[Narrator / Host]

We spoke in May of 2025. Me in my office in Seattle and Anessa in her home that she shares with her family and and a couple of Great Danes. On the morning of the raid, Anessa was 11 years old. One moment she was asleep in her bed and then in a flash she was shepherded into her living room, then a Child Protective Services van, then driven away to where she and the rest of the children there that morning were to be interviewed.

[Anessa]

And I remember just saying, where are my sisters? Where are my sisters? You know, what are you doing with them? Where are they? I need to know they're safe. I need to know that everybody's okay.

[Narrator / Host]

Anessa was confused and disoriented. As a child of the Zion Society cult, she had been warned something like this might happen. Babylon, the outside world might try to interfere with their way of life. But in the moment, all she felt was her duty.

[Anessa]

I didn't say anything because I was supposed to protect people.

[Narrator / Host]

Anessa's mother and father joined the Zion Society when she was around five years old. She was quickly introduced to Arvin.

[Anessa]

He still tried to do a few things to me, but I was too small at the time. I actually almost cried when it didn't work for me.

[Narrator / Host]

Separated from her parents and apparently of no use to Arvin, Anessa was relocated.

[Anessa]

I was separated into a household that was outside of Arvin's.

[Narrator / Host]

She became one of the spiritual wives in the sister council of another family who lived across the street Caddy Corner from her own parents and younger sisters.

[Anessa]

So I lived with them and the sexual and other abuse. Most of what happened to me was from that family versus from Arvin.

[Narrator / Host]

As 11 year old Anessa sat for questioning. She didn't offer up much information. She did as she had been taught.

[Anessa]

We were told that the outside world would never understand us and that we had to keep that, all that stuff private and we had to protect our leaders because, again, we were being persecuted. It wasn't that anything wrong was going on. They were being persecuted and that we would wind up being saved in the end for being strong.

[Narrator / Host]

Anessa and the other children were scared. They assumed, correctly, that they wouldn't be in protective custody forever. As child and family service workers were figuring out how to get them settled into foster care, their parents were actively trying to get them out. So if you're a kid being questioned, maybe you're thinking, what if I go back home in a day or two and didn't perform like I was told to? That might mean some serious trouble.

[Anessa]

You just have to keep your mouth shut, don't say anything.

[Narrator / Host]

It wasn't until a couple weeks later, after subsequent interviews, that Anessa finally discussed some of the abuse she had experienced, but specifically only the acts committed by Arvin Shreve, which had begun to happen with more regularity as she aged into double digits.

[Anessa]

And the only reason I did that was because they had already told me that other people had already said stuff and, oh, okay, then I might as well tell you what happened.

[Narrator / Host]

When it came to the family that she lived with, the ones responsible for the majority of abuses committed against her, Anessa insisted on protecting them.

[Anessa]

I totally wish that I would have said something at the time. That is the only thing that kind of eats at me because I don't know where they went. I don't know if they hurt anyone else.

[Narrator / Host]

Anessa and the other children were taken to a child advocacy center, or as it's called in Utah, a Children's Justice Center. CJC is a building set aside for doing interviews with kids who are victims of or witnesses to crimes. And it was a brand new concept back in 1991. Here's County Attorney at the time, Reed Richards.

[Aaron Mason]

That was maybe one of the first

[Narrator / Host]

cases we had in a children's justice center in Utah. And it was set up to be able to allow us to interview the

[Detective Dave Lucas]

kids in a place that they'd be comfortable somewhat.

[Narrator / Host]

Up until that point, the legal system was anything but child friendly. In order to see their abusers pay for what they'd done, children were put through a process that more often than not, actually added to the trauma they were already experiencing. These children were having multiple interviews over and over. In different locations. The prosecutor's office, the doctor's office. That is the voice of Joan Hellstrom. They sometimes had to go to very scary environments. The police station, people were coming in, being arrested. Joan Helstrom was our main advocate for

[Detective Dave Lucas]

children at that time, and she took

[Narrator / Host]

charge of making sure that the kids felt comfortable and taking care of any. I think she even made cookies for us. It was kind of supposed to be like a grandma's house originally. Find an old home or something that could be remodeled. So we moved forward, got it decorated.

[Carrie]

Great.

[Narrator / Host]

The interview rooms were age appropriate for the children. I mean, it was just a safe, private, wonderful place. And in 1991, it was the grand opening, and the children's justice center was still in its nascent days, and the Zion society kids were, for lack of a better term, the guinea pigs. Joan and her team would sit with the children and try to be a comfort to them while all of the necessary legal wheels turned. Interviewers, medical examiners, attorneys, and legal advisors could all come to them. It was just incredible how we could take some of these. I don't want to call them victims, but these children and have them tell their stories. And the one thing they'd always say was they could come in to this

[Carrie]

children's justice center, be interviewed and be believed.

[Narrator / Host]

But it was an intense and often difficult opening run with the Zion Society children. You might expect them to be relieved and grateful to be saved from such unconscionable and unrelenting abuse, but they weren't. Like Andrea said in the last episode, it didn't feel like a rescue. It felt like the bad guys had gotten us, had found us out. Many of the children, especially the teenagers, outright refused to cooperate. Not only had they been brainwashed into believing that anyone outside of their group was evil, but they had actually been coached on what to say if ever questioned by law enforcement. This is carrie. She was 15 on the day of the raid.

[Carrie]

We had these interrogation sessions where they would pretend like they were in the interrogator, and they'd be like, well, has anybody ever touched you? And I'd be like, what do you mean? I get hugs all the time. Of course people touch me. You would act like you didn't know what they were talking about when they were asking the question. Right. And we were also told the tactics that they would use and the questions that they would ask, and they were right on, like they knew. And when Mike shows up, in my mind, he was. He was bad, and he wanted to hurt us.

[Narrator / Host]

Mike's strategy was to be invisible. He'd stay back and let the caseworkers create the emotional attachments with the children and start to build trust with them,

[Aaron Mason]

rather than trying to get a child to trust the police officer in uniform that just ripped them from the arms of their parents.

[Carrie]

I was a very stubborn child.

[Narrator / Host]

Carrie is today, as she was then, very intelligent and fiercely determined.

[Carrie]

I think they could have kept me in that center for days without food and without sleep, and I wouldn't have broke.

[Narrator / Host]

That strength of will has served Carrie well in her time since the Zion Society. She decided at 17 that she was tired of making up stories about her past whenever people at school wanted to know where the new girl was from. So from that point on, if anyone asked her any question, no matter what it was, she would tell them the truth.

[Carrie]

And if people asked, it made them uncomfortable.

[Narrator / Host]

That's on them, she said. It was hard at first, but it was important to Carrie that she didn't keep her trauma in the dark.

[Carrie]

I think that when something is hidden, it gives it power. And I think that what happened is it took away the power that it had over me by talking about it.

[Narrator / Host]

But child abuse always leaves scars.

[Carrie]

I have had nightmares ever since I left there. I still have them. They're usually involving Arvin. Sometimes he's chasing me, and I've developed this, like, need to feel and look powerful.

[Narrator / Host]

We'll learn later what life has been like over the last 35 years for many of the Zion Society's survivors. But I want you to hear Kerry's response to her trauma now, because it's visible the moment you meet her.

[Carrie]

Looking strong made me feel safe in the world. And looking intimidating, especially to men, made me feel safe in the world in a way that I never had. And I'm tall as well, so having muscles, having tattoos. And so in my dreams, sometimes Arvin is trying to do something to me that I don't want him to. And I'm afraid. And I stand up to him, and I have a jacket on. I take. And this is so. Sounds so ridiculous, but I take my jacket off so he could see my tattoos. Like, he could see that I. I take back my power. I have power, and I have my own strength. And I'm not gonna take it. I'm not gonna let him abuse me. And, yeah, I still. I still have nightmares, but I've had them my whole life, you know, but in my later, you know, in life, like recently, I'm taking the power back.

[Narrator / Host]

Back at the Children's justice center, everything they asked Carrie about. She denied sexual abuse, sexual activity of any kind, the Sister Councils. She even disavowed the existence of the group itself. According to interview reports, Carrie's sister said Kerry often got phone calls from their mother during this time reminding her not to talk about the things she did. And those calls concluded with a promise to her daughter that we will be together soon. It was a promise that meant a lot to Carrie. Her mother took her and two of her siblings to live in the cult when she was 7. She had to use her words and a severe over attachment to her mom that began when they moved to Northwood and her entire family was taken away from her overnight. That meant her father and three siblings who refused to join the cult and her two brothers who came along but she hardly ever saw because they lived in different houses. Everyone had disappeared. Everyone except her mother.

[Carrie]

And I got super attached to her to the point where I would freak out whenever I couldn't be with her. I had to be with her every second. And I would call her Mommy. And so I would be like, mommy. If I was gonna leave her presence, I'd be like, mommy, I love you. I love you, Mommy. I love you, Mommy. I love you, Mommy. I love you, Mommy. I love you, Mommy. Like, I was so afraid that I wasn't gonna see her again. And so it was like this super bad anxiety every time I wasn't with her.

[Narrator / Host]

One day, after about three years in the group, when Carrie was 10, her mom took her to the house across the street from Arvin's, where a bunch of his wives lived.

[Carrie]

My mom took me there and dropped me off, and she's like, you're gonna live here now? And they had to physically restrain me.

[Narrator / Host]

She knew what this meant. Carrie began screaming and kicking, lashing out any way her little body could to try and stop the one thing she feared more than any other from coming to pass.

[Carrie]

And then I never lived with her again while I was there. And they wouldn't let me see her again until I could show no emotion. And I couldn't call her Mommy anymore. I had to call her Laura. And I couldn't. Couldn't cry. So I don't know how long it was. I think it was months before I could even see her. We were always occupying her time, sewing, cooking, cleaning, gardening. And so if I passed her on the street, she would just nod and smile and say hi to me like I was an acquaintance.

[Narrator / Host]

Carrie remembers exactly how she felt during that time.

[Carrie]

Panic. Sheer panic. I was destroyed emotionally. Like, I was completely abandoned. I Had nobody. And the way that they treated me was super emotionally abusive. And you had. If you didn't do what they wanted, you basically got ignored and not paid attention to. And so it was just a lot of not having people who really seemed like they liked me.

[Narrator / Host]

Carrie didn't say any of that to the people asking questions at the cjc. She dug her heels in, and there her heels were going to stay. But not everyone was defensive or combative. And Mike and his partner, Dave Lucas, began to see a pattern among some who did talk. Here's Detective Lucas.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

A lot of them would tell us things. And the way they said it did make it sound like, oh, these kids have been coached on what to tell us. Because they were all saying basically the same thing.

[Narrator / Host]

Not just similar answers, but in some cases, exactly the same wording. But there were literally thousands of instances of child sexual abuse believed to have taken place in the cult. And with so many occurrences, it's reasonable to think the children could have many similar experiences. So how could you tell the difference between saying the same thing and experiencing the same thing? Things were getting intense and emotions were running high. And the one man Mike King, had the legal authority to apprehend had vanished. Mike thought if he could just find Arvin, then maybe the. The Zion Society, as cults like it often do, would crumble without their profit. Perhaps with Arvin locked away, his consequences would no longer be a threat, and members and ex members would begin to open up about what went on under his leadership without fear of retribution. But the man could be anywhere. And then, three days after the raid, while Mike was watching an interview from a secret room behind a one way mirror, he got an emergency alert on his pager saying to call the county attorney's office. He did. And you're not going to believe what they told him. For nearly 35 years, Arvin's whereabouts on the day of the raid have been unknown. There were theories. Maybe he was hiding in one of the homes that didn't have a search warrant. Maybe he was holed up in this huge reinforced bunker they had in one of the backyards. But no one knew for sure. Not Mike King, not Reed Richards, not any former cop or cult member. No one. So imagine my surprise when, during my interview with Carrie, she told me this.

[Carrie]

Yeah, I was with him.

[Aaron Mason]

What?

[Carrie]

I was with him. Basically. I don't know who did it, but someone had leaked to Carla that there was gonna be a raid.

[Narrator / Host]

It could have been days, it could have been weeks. She can't recall. But at some Point before the raid, a teenage Carrie got into a car with her mom, Arvin, Arvin's lieutenant, Carla, and a woman we'll just call Jane. And the four of them drove two hours south to Mount Pleasant, Utah, to a mobile home owned by Jane's parents.

[Carrie]

And we stayed in that mobile home. That's where we were living. I had a cat, Duchess. That's her name. White Cat. We had this cat in the car on this drive down. And we stayed there until the raid happened. But we were told about it. We saw it on the news. We were also. I think people in the group had called and told us as well that had happened. And then we knew that there was a warrant out for Arvin's arrest, and so he left. I don't know what he did after that.

[Narrator / Host]

Now, who in the cult was where? Gets very complicated in the days surrounding the raid, especially the kids, because many were shipped off to a number of different places in a handful of states all around the country to stay with friends, relatives, what have you. Carrie actually wasn't among the first van full of Zion Society children. She was interviewed, but it was several days after everything went down because she was with Arvin on that actual day. So how did they know the raid was coming? Because most cops didn't even know it was happening until that morning.

[Carrie]

They saw me on the news.

[Narrator / Host]

That is Cheryl Naugle. Cheryl, you'll remember, was the private investigator's wife who went undercover as lingerie buyer Suzanne Behrens. Not long before the raid, the Naugles PI Business was featured in a story on the local news. And someone in the Zion Society was watching. And I guess one of them ran into Arvin and said, suzanne Behrens isn't who she says she is. She's a private investigator.

[Carrie]

So I guess they started burning, shredding,

[Narrator / Host]

getting rid of as fast as they could before they were able to get in.

[Mike Watkis]

Wow.

[Narrator / Host]

Wow. I didn't know that.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Yeah, I didn't know that either.

[Narrator / Host]

Back to our main timeline of events. It had been three days since the raid, Arvin's whereabouts unknown. And Mike King couldn't exactly start a manhunt in the midst of trying to manage all of these interviews at the cjc as one of the only investigators privy to the facts of this case that was heretofore classified. He was one of the only investigators who knew what information they even needed from the kids, who they could only keep in protective custody for a limited amount of time. But then he got that notification from the Weber County Attorney's. Office to call them immediately. It was urgent. So he did. And the receptionist who answered told him that the man he was looking for had just turned himself into in.

[Aaron Mason]

And I remember holding the phone away for a moment and looking at Lucas and saying, we got him.

[Narrator / Host]

Arvin turned himself in and was being held at a police station in a town called cedar city.

[Aaron Mason]

And that was a very exciting moment. But at the same time, you have to think about this fact that as an investigator, it was, now, what are we going to do with him?

[Narrator / Host]

Mike explained the situation to his partner, Dave Lucas.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

I just recall we got in Mike's car as fast as we could, told everybody what we were doing, said, we're going to go down to cedar city and pick him up.

[Narrator / Host]

Cedar city is about 290 miles from Ogden. It's in southwest Utah, not too far from zion national park. The trip from Ogden to cedar city usually takes four hours.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Mike had a little bit of a

[Narrator / Host]

heavy foot, but Mike was determined to do it in less than that. He happened to have a yellow camaro with t tops from his cartel busting undercover task force days.

[Aaron Mason]

I didn't even think to ask Lucas if he wanted to drive one of the busted down city cars to go and get arvin, which would have been a much better idea given the fact there's actually room in the back seat. But I just said, because of the haste of the moment, grab your gear because we're on the road.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

He's probably going close to 100. But he was going pretty fast because we wanted to get down there as fast as we could.

[Narrator / Host]

Soon enough, the two detectives found themselves on the other side of the flashing lights.

[Aaron Mason]

At one point, as we were into rural Utah, we passed a trooper heading the other way, and we saw his lights flip on and the dust coming up as he was trying to get turned around and get in behind us. Dave said something to the effect of, hey, buddy, I think we got a little problem.

[Narrator / Host]

So they radioed the statewide dispatcher to let them know who they were, what they were doing, and that unless there was a particular reason to, they weren't going to be pulling over.

[Aaron Mason]

Then we slowed down just enough that the highway patrolman could pull alongside us just long enough for Dave and me to flash our badges and to see him kind of give us that look of, oh, you've wasted my morning. We continued on, and he became smaller and smaller in our rearview mirror as we raced our way toward cedar city to pick up arvin.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Probably only take us three hours rather than four to get down there in

[Narrator / Host]

that truncated time, the two men came up with a game plan. The first thing to do was cover the basics, make sure Arvin knew he was under arrest, advise him of his rights, and make sure he understood what those rights were. Then the real detective work would begin. Their goal was to get Arvin to confess. It was crucial that every I was dotted and every T crossed, because if Arvin talked but then later claimed he didn't know his rights, anything he said could be thrown out of court.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

But we didn't want to question him there at the jail. I said, let's don't question him there. Let's just get him and go.

[Narrator / Host]

I asked Lucas why? Because the environment, even if you've never been in one, you can imagine police stations and jails are terrible places to hang out and chat. Bare walls, maybe a table and a couple of uncomfortable chairs. Not very conducive to conversation. And they needed Arvin to talk.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We knew that we was going to have Arvin in a car for four hours. You know, he can look out the windows. He can see. It's more of a relaxed environment. If we went to that jail, we and tried to interview him there, odds are he's going to clam up. Why take that chance? Four hours is a long time, and he's going to want to talk. He doesn't want to sit there and be quiet the whole time.

[Narrator / Host]

Mike and Lucas entered the Cedar City police station, where the chief was waiting for them. He quickly ushered them back into one of the holding cells. There, sitting in a chair, was Arvind Shreve.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Looked like a nice old man. If you saw him out on the street, you'd just think he was somebody's grandpa.

[Narrator / Host]

When it comes to interview tactics, Dave Lucas firmly believes that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

If you treat a person nice, nine times out of ten, they'll treat you back the same way. And so that's how I approached Harvin. This is Mike King. I'm David Lucas. We're in law enforcement back up in Ogden City, not yelling at him.

[Narrator / Host]

There were three options for what could happen next.

[Aaron Mason]

One is that Arvin would choose to speak to us, which would be preferred, and that he would give a confession and we would be able to move on and solve this case more quickly. Number two is that he might start talking, but then realize that he's getting on incredibly thin ice and say, hands off. I don't want to go any further. Or third, that he flat out says, I want a lawyer, and I don't want to talk to you guys.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We told him now, Harvin, you're under arrest. Said, you've probably seen this on tv. They'll say you are under arrest and then they give them their Miranda rights. So we gave him his rights and immediately said that he had obtained a lawyer.

[Narrator / Host]

Arvin then invoked his right to an attorney, which means the detectives could no longer ask questions or discuss the case against him in any way whatsoever.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Then we said, okay, no problem. So let's, let's go ahead and get you in the car and take you back up to Ogden.

[Narrator / Host]

It would be extremely uncomfortable and might even cause a 61 year old man like Arvin some injury to ride for four hours in the rear seat of a Camaro with his arms handcuffed behind his back. So to accommodate him, they put a special belt around Arvin's waist that handcuffs can be attached to so he can be cuffed with his hands in front of him, but still not move his arms around. So with his restraints in place, Mike and Lucas led Arvin to the door.

[Aaron Mason]

As we walked out of the jail, we were immediately confronted by a host of photographers. Somehow they had figured out, and I don't know to this day how they figured out that Arvin was detained in the jail there. Sheev walked into the police station and told officers he was a wanted man,

[Narrator / Host]

wanted to find the quickest way back to Ogden.

[Aaron Mason]

And of course we've been in contact with the Ogden Police department.

[Narrator / Host]

They're happy to provide him with that transportation.

[Aaron Mason]

And we realized at that point how big this thing was becoming because you know, when you're in the middle of a case like this, you're not watching the news, you don't, you don't care what's going on on TV because you're just trying to interview children and get evidence in place and everything else.

[Narrator / Host]

They dodged the photogs, got Arvin in the car and headed back out on the highway for the long drive back to Ogden.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We knew we couldn't ask him any questions, so therefore we didn't.

[Aaron Mason]

What you can do though is listen and, and if they provide admissions or utterances that are unsolicited, you can use that and say, I didn't ask him anything, but he said this or that, so you're still able to have conversation.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We kind of talked to him in a way that he would talk as well. You know, he'd say, yeah, I like to do landscaping. And that was his thing. And we're just chit chatting.

[Narrator / Host]

Mike wrote in his Book deceived that Arvin was a bit curt in his conversational contributions. He would occasionally chime in, but it was polite, small talk, energy. The detectives talked about their families. They talked about religion. Lucas told Arvin it seemed like he had a strong belief in God. And Arvin responded that he did.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Both Mike and I says, yeah, we. We do, too.

[Narrator / Host]

Both men were members of the LDS Church. That's the same religion that Arvind grew up in and from which he was excommunicated. They knew he considered himself an authority on scripture and church matters and probably wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut if he overheard the two of them waxing philosophical. Mike asked dave, how do you deal with people in your congregation who stop coming to church? And that clearly hit a nerve because Arvin blurted out with great gusto, and you keep trying and hoping. He said, you need to understand where they are. It's like those of us who live by each other in Ogden. We're friends and neighbors who help each other, nothing more. We can't talk to you about this. Mike reminded him, you asked for an attorney. This is a gospel discussion. It doesn't have anything to do with what you charged me with. He argued as he leaned back in his seat, deflated. Detective Lucas decided it was time to change the mood and began to tell Arvin the story of Mike getting pulled over for speeding on their way down to Cedar City.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

And I just laughed. I said, yeah, Arvin, you should have seen it. You know, he's flying down the old interstate, and the police officer pulls up, and he's really got him a good one here. Mike shows him the badge and he goes, oh. And I told Arvin, says, you can't believe it. I said, you know, even police make mistakes. You know, everybody makes mistakes.

[Narrator / Host]

Arvin laughed at the story. Yeah, we all make mistakes, he said through a smile. Lucas turned around to look at him. I don't care who you are, he said, nobody's perfect.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

Well, Arvin then started opening up to us, and he started to tell us some things. And I distinctly remember my going, arvin, you asked for a lawyer. We can't talk to you. And Harmon says, well, I really want to tell you, not thinking about it. He said, oh, man, be careful how you say this next part, Mike. And Mike goes, well, we would like to have you tell us, too. Maybe we ought to call the lawyer and see what he says, see if he'll let you talk to us. And Arvin says, yeah, let's do that.

[Narrator / Host]

A task that Proved to be much more difficult than either of them expected.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We tried to call this attorney, and we couldn't get him. I mean, this guy is ready to talk. I mean, he's ready to bust a bubble, let us out of, we gotta find this lawyer.

[Narrator / Host]

It turned out that finding Arvin ended up being easier than finding Arvin's lawyer. While they kept trying to get him on the phone, Dispatch sent cops to the lawyer's office to see if he was in.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We even had a police officer go over to the lawyer's house and try to get him, but he just was not home.

[Narrator / Host]

So Mike made a call to Weber county attorney Reed Richards.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

And Reed asked Mike, so what have you done? And Mike told him what we tried to do. And Reid says, you know what? If he wants to waive the attorney, you've exhausted everything. Go ahead and do it.

[Narrator / Host]

Arvin Shreve was ready to confess. As they neared Ogden, Detective Lucas notified the dispatcher that they would be arriving shortly and asked that a room in the jail be prepared. The dispatcher told them there was a huge gathering of press outside the building waiting for his arrival. They quickly decided they didn't want to risk escorting Arvin through a phalanx of flashbulbs and shouting reporters. So they called an audible and pulled into the parking lot of the Utah highway patrol in South Ogden, Several miles short of the media frenzy. They had taken a mobile phone with them, A relatively uncommon item in 1991, which Lucas used to call dispatch, so their new location wouldn't be broadcast over frequencies that could be monitored by journalists or inquisitive citizens. Mike then checked in with Arvin and reminded him of the charges he was facing. Are you sure you want to do this? He asked.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

He said, yeah, I want to tell you.

[Narrator / Host]

They had gotten Arvin to let down his guard.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We said, okay, what do you want to tell us? And so he just opened up.

[Narrator / Host]

As they sat in the parking lot waiting for a highway patrol sergeant to arrive, the bright orange sun reflected off the Great Salt Lake to the west as it slowly drifted across the cloudless summer sky down to meet the horizon. The two men mostly just listened as Arvin began to break down the broad strokes of life among his neighborhood group, taking mental notes every now and then, asking for clarification about who in his story was who. Then Lucas proposed an idea.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

You know, Arvin, this is really good, what you're telling us, he says. Yeah, I says, but the judge doesn't want to hear it from Mike or me. He'd rather hear it right from you. He says, yeah. I said, we ought to get a tape recorder and tape record your voice. That way the judge gets to hear it. He says, what do you mean? I said, well, normally we go back, we type everything down, you read it, you sign it. But I says, can you imagine having a tape recording of everything you did? The judge is going to hear that. He's going to go, man, this guy isn't really that bad of a guy. And he said, okay.

[Narrator / Host]

This was a play to Arvin's ego, an offering, albeit a hollow one, to use the full force of his silver tongue to convince people to see things his way. He gets to control the narrative, but truthfully, it was better for the prosecution.

[Aaron Mason]

I think it's probably pretty easy for everybody to understand. If a jury could listen to him saying, I do not want an attorney. I want to tell you guys what what happened, I think you'll understand. Versus me just saying in a report, yeah, he waived his right. I think it's just so much more compelling for a jury to hear him in his own voice with us in the background saying, are you sure you want to do this for that jury? To hear him trying to justify why it was all right and that these little children were promiscuous and really kind of pushing him into having these sexual encounters? All of that is incredibly compelling for a jury.

[Narrator / Host]

I really wish I could play that audio for you, but unfortunately, it's standard practice for that kind of evidence to be destroyed so many years after an investigation ends. Anyway, after a few minutes, the sergeant they were waiting for arrived and he walked everyone into a room in the highway patrol office where they got a tape recorder set up and asked the sergeant to stay with them for a minute so he could be an independent witness to Arvin waiving his right to counsel.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

We turn on the tape recorder and we say, okay, Arvin, go ahead and tell us, you know, what, what you want to explain to the court. And then we just let him talk and of course, we asked questions and he gave a full confession.

[Narrator / Host]

As Arvin spoke, Mike King and Dave Lucas, who were both highly experienced interrogators, utilized every tool in their tool belt against the cult leader. Mike began by constructing a sort of mental lie detector in his head by asking questions he already knew the answers to, and then observing Arvin's non verbal response responses, changes in facial expressions and body language when he was being dishonest, Mike noticed a twitching in Arvin's neck and a subtle shifting of the eyes revealed his discomfort as he answered.

[Aaron Mason]

And in Arvin's case, after going through all of this, of having him talk about his first kiss and how it felt to fall in love and what his children were like and all these beautiful flower and puppy dog moments, I then said, have you ever had experiences with sex workers? And his response was immediately, well, absolutely not.

[Narrator / Host]

But Mike knew something about Arvin that Arvin didn't know. He knew Mike had checked his background and knew about his arrest for an encounter with a sex worker years earlier.

[Aaron Mason]

And I said, I know you're lying about that, because I have that arrest record in my hands. And at that point, I leaned back and I said, the choice is yours. Because frankly, Arvin, I don't care if you die in prison or if I'm able to go to the judge and say you really were repentant and trying to tell the truth. It's up to you.

[Narrator / Host]

Both detectives took turns asking Arvin about his beliefs and his community. And Arvin responded with different degrees of deception. They weren't a church. He wasn't a prophet. He even claimed he didn't know his neighbors all that well and pretended to struggle with names. While Mike would express a little bit of saltiness at Arvin's lies, Lucas doubled down on the sweet. He reiterated that what they wanted to do here was give him a chance to explain himself and show the judge who he really was by taking responsibility for his actions.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

I had told him, I says, you gotta remember some of those things that you did isn't really conducive to being proper. In order for us to get a warrant, you must have done something that was not right.

[Narrator / Host]

He didn't use strong wording like illegal and against the law, opting instead for softer phrases like improper and not right.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

You gotta watch the wording as you're talking to people, because if you say the wrong word, boom. They can clam up so fast.

[Narrator / Host]

Then they dropped the bomb. For this next bit, I'm going to read directly from Mike King's book, An Investigative Memoir of the Zion Society Cult. It was time to begin interrogating Arvin on the charges of child sexual abuse. I reached into my briefcase, pulled out a stack of file folders, and placed them on the table. Arvin, we have been very busy over the last few days interviewing the children from your neighborhood, and I want you to know that we have overwhelming evidence against you enough to put you in prison for the rest of your life. I paused and watched him closely. Lucas said, what we're trying to do here, Arvin, is give You a chance to show the judge who you really are. Now is the time to tell the truth. We both stopped talking and waited. Then it happened. In his holier than thou demeanor, Arvin began. My understanding of the offense you are charging me with is that of illegal sexual conduct with children. May I emphasize from the beginning that there was never any element of force, coercion, or persuasion. All contact was initiated by the children in a very natural and casual manner. The purpose of such contact was not lust or sexual gratification, but bonding in the building of a closeness within what was perceived as an eternal family unit. I realized that such is outside the norm of society's accepted standards. I realize also that due to the tendency that some in society have to abuse children or use them for personal gratification, that laws must be formed to protect children from such behavior. However my actions are perceived, I recognize that I am subject to such laws.

[Detective Dave Lucas]

I helped him understand that you can't break the laws of the land and not have to pay a penalty. He kind of understood that. Yeah, you're. You're probably right. I. I shouldn't have done it.

[Aaron Mason]

Part of me hoped that he might drop his head in shame and say, I'm sorry I did this. But the. The person that I had studied for a month now, at this time, I did not expect him to do anything

[Narrator / Host]

different than he did during his entire interrogation. At no point did Arvin take any responsibility for his actions or admit that he was doing anything wrong. Mike and Lucas went through every accusation from each child one by one. After hearing each name and the details of their assaults, Arvin blamed the child every single time. According to Mike's book, Arvin said one child in particular acted, quote, risky, and after detailing his assault on the girl, claimed that it was only bonding and said she, quote, seemed to encourage the contact.

[Aaron Mason]

He built this entire religion to satisfy his pedophilia and then convinced others of it to fuel his fantasies and his desires. And to me, it was a perfect way to end the interview by realizing that the spots on this leopard are not changing.

[Narrator / Host]

Disgusted and exhausted, the detectives wrapped up the interrogation. Although Arvin would never admit to any assaults on boys, and there were several on young boys, after more than three hours, he confessed to 30 felony sex abuse charges. It was midnight when they left the highway patrol office and drove the last few miles of the day's journey to Ogden. Even at that late hour, there was a mob of media ready to greet them, Shouting and taking photos. They ushered Arvin into the building and booked him into jail. There was still a lot of work to do if they wanted to keep him there. But would any of his victims speak out against him and the other abusers in the cult? Mike told me there are two people without whom there would not have been a case against the Zion Society. One is Aaron Anderson, whose confession blew the doors open and kick started the whole investigation. The other you'll meet in the next episode, a 15 year old girl who stood up in front of her tormentors and whose testimony became the heart of the entire case. As Mike swung close the steel bars on Arvin's cell, he asked one final question. Arvin how often did these kinds of things happen? His answer gave the seasoned officer chills. It was a daily thing, he said flatly. If I asked you what you had for breakfast last Thursday, you wouldn't know. You would know you had breakfast, just not what or where. If you or someone you know is experiencing sexual violence, contact the Rape, Abuse and Incest national [e-mail] that's R A I N N. O R G. Or call the National Sexual assault hotline at 800-656-HOPE. Both services are free, confidential and available 247 gardens of inside the Zion Society Cult was written, narrated and audio produced by me, Aaron Mason. Original music by Alison Layton Brown. No generative AI was used in the writing or production of this podcast. My sincere thanks to the entire Gardens of Evil editorial team. Your feedback was invaluable. Gardens of Evil is based on the book An Investigative Memoir of the Zion Society Cult by Michael R. King, available at profilingevil.com on Amazon or IngramSpark. Mike donates all of his proceeds from the book and this podcast to fund child advocacy efforts and criminal justice scholarships. Check out Mike's podcast Profiling Evil, where he explores unsolved criminal cases from around the world and dives deep into the minds of predators. Find profiling evil on YouTube or wherever you get podcasts executive producers John Goforth and Jeremy Seinen. Gardens of Evil is a production of the Gamut Podcast network. You compare prices when shopping for flights, hotels, cars. So why not small business insurance? At Simply Business, we'll show you policies that fit your business and a range of prices to help you save. Who knew buying insurance could be so simple? Visit simplybusiness.com for your free quote today. If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place. From H vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more, and all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win.

[Aaron Mason]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit granger.com or just stop

[Narrator / Host]

by Granger for the ones who get it done.