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- [00:06]
A
The heart of minimalism is really about asking, what role does simplicity and sacrifice play in my pursuit of the good life? The lie that, hey, you'll be happy and loved if you own a lot of things. That's too direct. You can't state that to people propositionally, but you kind of got to seduce them into believing in those sorts of things subtly. I think at the heart of minimalism, it's really about, are you doing what makes you come alive? Are you doing what gives you joy? Or are you. You living the life that you hate but somebody else loves for you? I think the goal of life is to experience the joy of not just having an impact, but having the kind of impact that makes us indispensable, the kind of impact that nobody else could have had, because we were uniquely designed to express divine brilliance in our own way. When you're gone, the only thing that you can take with you is.
- [01:01]
B
Lets be real. Most of us are coming out of 2025 with more stuff, more stress, and less margin than ever before. So what will it actually take to spend less and get a fresh start with your money in 2026? Well, today I'm joined by someone who's well equipped to answer that question. T.K. coleman. He's one third of the Minimalists and the author of the book Emotional Clutter, and he's joining me on this episode to share tips on ditching both financial and emotional clutter in the new year. He's also going to expose some of the biggest lies consumer culture is telling us these days. So let's get to it. TK it's an honor to finally have you. We've been friends for a long time.
- [01:35]
A
Yes, sir.
- [01:36]
B
And I've been vying to get you on this channel, and we made it happen. Your beard has grown since I last saw you, though.
- [01:41]
A
Yeah, man. What do you think?
- [01:42]
B
I think you're entering. You're like, you passed Denzel. You're entering Morgan Freeman territory. I want you to know that I'm past.
- [01:50]
A
I didn't know I was at Denzel.
- [01:52]
B
Yeah, no, you were there, but you just kept it going. The beard kept getting more wisdom, more white. So now you're in Morgan territory. So I want to ask you this. You were a former financial advisor. We talk a lot about finances on this channel. And then you wrote this book, Emotional Clutter. You're talking about frugality. And, you know, I do that a lot here. You're not the first to do it. And that said, where do you think the line is between Being a minimalist and just being cheap because, like, I, you know, I'm a man of frugality, and so I like to. I'm a minimalist, but really, I have a lot of crap. And you can still be frugal about it.
- [02:26]
A
Right, right. That line is more art than science. Right. Some people are minimalist because they're cheap, and minimalism just provides a great kind of outer trapping for it. You know what I mean? Some people are ocd, and minimalism is an attractive lifestyle for them because it's a way to keep everything really tidy and really simple. So. But, you know, I don't trouble myself over that too much, man. If people want to be cheap, be cheap. Like, I think at the heart of minimalism, it's really about, are you doing what makes you come alive? Are you doing what gives you joy? Or are you living the life that you hate but somebody else loves for you? You know what I mean? So I try not to.
- [03:09]
B
It's a matter of the heart.
- [03:10]
A
That's right, man. That's right.
- [03:12]
B
So you could have a $400,000 car or multiple. You have a garage full of cars, and you still say you could be a minimalist. Still. Is that true?
- [03:18]
A
It would depend on your. Why. You know what I mean? So if you have three cars, I can't know off that information alone. If you're a minimalist, what if you have a family of 10 people, like my wife's family? You know what I mean?
- [03:34]
B
Or what if you're Jay Leno and it's Jay Leno's garage and you got a thousand cars?
- [03:38]
A
So here's another component to that, you know, Like, I like to make the statement that minimalism isn't about scarcity. It's about abundance, healthfully expressed. What's the whole point of minimalism? How might my life be more with less? So the whole purpose of minimalism is to figure out what are those few areas in your life where you just want to go all in. And for everyone, there's some kind of more that they want. I want more time with my family. I want more freedom. Right? I want more time to read, more time to play sports or do the things that I love. And so minimalism is about leveraging simplicity so that you can be available to, like, the kind of abundance that really satisfies you. Not the superficial abundance of, I own a bunch of trinkets now I'm somebody, right? Like, the substantial abundance of, like, man, I've got a whole lot of freedom, a whole lot of creative Energy flowing through my life. And so if you're willing to get rid of just about everything so you can have 50 books or 50 paintbrushes, more power to you. If you like, want to own like 10 different guitars and just nerd out on music all day long, so you choose to go without other things that people think are necessary. More power to you.
- [04:45]
B
So you're saying I can keep the Precious Moments collection? I've been working on it too long. Sunk cost fallacy. At this point.
- [04:51]
A
I don't know, man. I don't know. You might need to let it go.
- [04:53]
B
I'm not backing down. They're too cute. Well, let's talk about emotional clutter. What's the tie between financial clutter and emotional clutter? Because we know that money is inherently emotional.
- [05:05]
A
That's right. It's inherently emotional and relational. Right. All money problems are relationship problems at the level of cause and effect. Because if you have a money problem, then there is a relationship with someone, whether that be a customer, a business partner, a mentor, that can help you solve that problem. And at the level of effect, if you have a money problem, there are people in your life, you know, that are being weighed down or negatively impacted by that money problem or perhaps not being served well because of that money problem. So financial clutter is all about relationships. But then once you get into relationships, it's inescapable. We're going to have to deal with the psychological component too. Right. We have feelings about ourselves when we don't have money. There's a particular way we feel about ourselves when we do have money. I remember back in the day, man, I was driving this beat down car and I was living in la, single, and I'm driving and this car just kind of like starts to putt, putt, putt, putt, putt, putt, putt. And I knew what it was. Cause it had done this all the time. You know, there are certain things you gotta do to get those little hoopties going. You gotta hit it twice this way, then you gotta kick it this way, then, you know, fill it up with a little bit of oil. And I had to do that. And it happened right in front of this cafe. And there are these like beautiful women sitting at a table, eating at the cafe. And here I am just sitting, feeling like some loser. Cause I'm dealing with my car. That's emotional clutter, man. Why did I feel like a loser? Why did it bother me that I'm having this problem in front of these people? There are some stories that I Picked up somewhere along the way. Right. And we all have stories that we tell ourselves. We all have emotions that we feel when we're not able to have what we want, when we're not able to successfully make what we want. And so emotional clutter is about helping people unpack that baggage that come from the stories they tell themselves when they're not getting the results they want. And that's about money and everything else. Yeah.
- [07:05]
B
I got a solution for you, though. I try to only break down in front of ugly people. Solves a lot of problems for me.
- [07:10]
A
Or just not break down.
- [07:12]
B
That's ideal, too. So what are some of the biggest lies that consumer culture tells us about happiness? Because we see this a lot. Well, if I just made more, If I just had more. If I had this job, there's always a thing on the other side that's being sold to us or a lie that we inherently believe.
- [07:30]
A
Yeah. So in order to tell a good lie, you can't be too obvious. Right. Even if the lie is what people want to hear. If I tell you, hey, George, guess what, man? I just bought a lottery ticket. It's a $50 million ticket, and it's actually a winning ticket, and I'm just gonna give it to you. I mean, hey, you'd love to hear that, but you're not gonna believe that. That's too direct. Right? So lies have to be more subtle. The lie that, hey, you'll be happy in love if you own a lot of things, that's too direct. You can't state that to people propositionally, but you kind of gotta seduce them into believing in those sorts of things subtly. So you start with more feasible lies. One of those is, hey, even if you don't need it, even if you don't want it, you kind of have to, because everybody else is doing it. And it's a practical necessity just to be a player in the game at this point. It's sort of like, why do you have to be on Instagram? Why do you have to be on Facebook? Why do you have to be on. On TikTok or any of these social media sites? You may not want to be on there, but you kind of got to. Right. And so once we convince you that you have to play the game and we get you involved, well, now that you're inside the arena, we can sell you as many concessions as we want, because the steps to get you there is a lot shorter. So I think that's one of the most fundamental lies that we tell. One of the Most fundamental consumeristic lies, which is you have to have certain things in order to be a player in the game. Because it's a basic part of functioning in society, which is why now we have like 12, 13 year olds all having smartphones. There was a time not very long ago where when parents were addressing that, in theory, they were like, yeah, I don't think I want my kid having a smartphone at this or that age. But now so many have changed their minds. Why? Not necessarily because their philosophical opinions about the smartphone has changed, but because they've been convinced that you kind of have to. I don't want my kid to be the only one that doesn't have a phone and. And can't do that.
- [09:23]
B
You don't want to be odd man out. You don't want to be swimming upstream. You're right. It feels like it's less about happiness now and it's more about, well, you just need this. It's a quality of life issue now. If you don't have a smartphone and a reliable car and you own a home, well, your life just. You're behind.
- [09:38]
A
That's right.
- [09:39]
B
That's another lie that we're told.
- [09:40]
A
And the notion that you need this at a certain level actually is true. Right? But maybe the lie is, don't worry about it too much, because since you need it, just focus on that and you don't have to worry about this totally destroying you and your family.
- [09:56]
B
Well, you have this quote from the book Emotional Clutter. The goal of life isn't to conform to whatever society defines in your generation as normal. What is the goal of life then? If there's no race to be run and I can't beat someone else, why run the marathon?
- [10:11]
A
There is a race to be run and there is someone that you can beat in this race, but it has nothing to do with anybody else. It has everything to do with you. Right? You think about people who play sports at the highest level there gets. There gets a point where they're competing with themselves. Right? Michael Jordan is competing with himself. That's the highest level of competition. Because you can actually be very lazy when you're better than everyone else. People who have a hard time pushing themselves and practicing a lot are usually the people that can just get away with it because they're so naturally talented. They can just get up out of bed and still be better than everyone else. People like that don't fulfill their potential. It's the people who say, you know what? I have a obligation. I have a sense of moral duty. You know, like, I've got to be better than myself. I got to know that I'm living up to something that is higher than my current level of performance. And so, you know, I think of the words of Catherine Siena, become who God created you to be, and you will set the whole world on fire. I think the goal of life is to experience the joy of not just having an impact, but having the kind of impact that makes us indispensable. The kind of impact that nobody else could have had, because we were uniquely designed to express divine brilliance in our own way.
- [11:28]
B
So this feels like almost soulmate territory. When you talk about kind of the goal of life, you gotta figure out what you were crafted to be, become who God made you to be. It feels like too much pressure on the average person to be like, well, well, I didn't know I was supposed to be an electrical engineer at this company. How do you sort of navigate that as a 18 year old, 25 year old? Cause I just stumbled into all this. I had no strategery behind it. So what do you tell that young person out there who's like, sounds great, TK you say it and it sounds cool.
- [11:59]
A
What do I do next that's so good? Because the tendency is to think about becoming who you're born to be in terms of a specific job, right? And to reduce the whole of your life to that. Oh, my purpose in life, the thing that I was created to be, was to be an electrical engineer. Oh, my gosh. Not only is that a ton of pressure, but what a terrible life, because that means everything that goes on in your experience that has nothing to do with making you a better electrical engineer gets to be meaningless. What about your best friend when you were 8 years old? You know, do you have to now figure out a way to narrate your life story such that he contributed you to you being a better engineer? Or do you get to say my meaning? And my purpose is something that can be manifested in every aspect of how I live. So I think purpose is less about a particular preoccupation and it's more about who you are as a person. It's about your character. It's about your way. Finding your purpose is about finding your rhythm. There's a particular rhythm of being a particular way that you are. And you could have a million different jobs. You know, there's a possible universe where maybe we don't have the technology that allows you to do this, but you could still be George. And the qualities that you use in this show and in the kind of work you do, if life saw fit to have you be a plumber or a football coach, you would still be you impacting people in a way that's unique to you.
- [13:23]
B
I appreciate that. But we all know I don't have a good plumber's crack. It's not there. It's not there.
- [13:28]
A
But you could do the football coaching.
- [13:30]
B
Now, that I could do.
- [13:32]
A
I could be.
- [13:33]
B
Who's the guy from the Miami Dolphins? Nobody knows sports in here.
- [13:38]
A
Nobody.
- [13:39]
B
Lots of people want a fresh start with the new year. It feels like this blank slate. People are excited. Maybe there's some shame and guilt that they're carrying in of like, well, you're just gonna screw it up again. I know how you are with New Year's. But right now, people are building their identity on stuff, status. The next goal, will I make it? Will I fail? What are the consequences of that?
- [14:02]
A
It's demoralizing. You can't fool yourself, not for too long. And even when you fool yourself intellectually, there's a part of you that knows you're lying to yourself. So when you're orienting your goals around stuff that you don't really care about, you're going to feel that on the inside. There's so much more to selling your soul than doing something you don't want to do for money. Sometimes we sell our souls in the form of just doing things that have nothing to do with our own sense of aliveness. Sometimes we sell our souls by just, like, doing what makes us comfortable. And sometimes we pick goals that make us comfortable. But you've got to pick something that challenges you. You've got to pick something that fires you up. You've got to pick something that produces a certain sort of feeling in you that makes you say, yeah, this is worth being disciplined for. And I think it's so important to start ridiculously small. Sometimes we feel that in order to honor a goal that we have, we've gotta choose, like, a really flattering way to approach it. And I think that's a way to psych yourself out, to lose trust in yourself. You set yourself up for failure. I think that's at the heart of a lot of broken New Year's resolution promises. I would suggest if people have got some kind of habit they wanna, you know, create in their lives, some goal they want to achieve, ask yourself, like, hey, what's something I can consistently do even on my worst day of the week? And start there. Because when you're doing something, you can always do more if you're in the middle of doing it. But you're going to need those days where you can easily talk yourself into doing something. And you can be like, you know what? This is a day from hell. But I can still show up and do that small little thing. That's key.
- [15:44]
B
All right, we'll get back to the conversation in just a second, but let's talk about minimalism with your clothes. You wish you just had one pair of joggers to rule them all. I got you. It's from our friends at Cozy Earth. And their bamboo joggers are my go to. When I get home, I ditch the jeans and I slide into these joggers and my life changes instantly. These joggers are so soft, they'll make you excited to do laundry just so you can wear them again. And their everywhere pant, well, that's the one pant you need for everything from going to work to going to bed. You're gonna wanna wear them everywhere. Big brain thinking. And best of all, Cozy Earth is giving my audience up to 20% off. So just head to cozyearth.com george. Use promo code george@ch or click the link in the description below. All right, back to the conversation. So you talk a lot about saying no. That's a path to simplicity. What can people spend money on that actually does lead to genuine joy or happiness?
- [16:36]
A
Experiences. Money is a powerful facilitator of experiences that can lead to interesting discoveries. Discoveries that help you see the world differently. Discoveries that increase you and self respect and in health. So things like travel is very good. Or even just creating experiences with friends. You know, it takes money to go to a botanical garden, but that's an experience which once consumed, still lives inside of you in a way that's different from, you know, maybe just spending it on a souvenir.
- [17:12]
B
Yeah, that lasts longer. And you're usually doing that experience with people that you love.
- [17:16]
A
That's right.
- [17:17]
B
Or people you hate. And then you have a trauma bond of some sort.
- [17:19]
A
I guess that's exactly right. I also encourage people to spend money as an investment in resources that stoke the flames of their curiosity. You know, so watching interesting plays or films, you know, going to art galleries, going to museums, consuming interesting art, going to see live music or spending money on music lessons, learning how to play an instrument. We need to sort of get away from this consumeristic idea that nothing is worth doing unless I can justify it in terms of profitability. Who cares if you can't be a professional pianist or a professional guitarist? Just take the lessons anyway, because that makes you a better human being. That gives you a kind of joy that you won't get from anything else. I encourage people to spend money on books and on good literature because those are things that allow you to tap into the wisdom of other minds and live different lives and travel in time.
- [18:13]
B
So would it be a wise question to ask, what is the ROI of this thing that I'm gonna spend my time or money on or give attention to?
- [18:21]
A
So there's a quote I love from James P. Carse in a book called Finite and Infinite Games. A vision of play, of life as play and possibility. And he says, the first rule of play is that he who must play, cannot play. Play cannot come from a place of I gotta do this obligation. Yeah. And it can't come from a place of like, if I do this, it's gonna make me more money. It's gotta come from a place of that pure positive energy of being human. When we were kids and we play hide and seek, we weren't trying to make more money. We weren't infatuated with roi. We were just trying to have fun. And that's an important part of our humanity. Some of the greatest discoveries and most interesting stories come from that part of ourselves that isn't doing something because we have to do it or because we see it as a means to an end. There is such a thing as an intrinsic good. And these kinds of things that I'm talking about, they are intrinsic goods. Money is the means to an end. Money is not an intrinsic good. You can't put your money under a fire and turn it into something that you can eat. You can't do anything with it until you give it away so that you can get something else. And so these types of experiences that I'm talking about, yes, they can make you better, they can improve your relationships. But even apart from that, they're just intrinsic goods, man. Listen to music because that's what humans do.
- [19:45]
B
Music is a good one. What are you listening to these days? Can you give us a taste?
- [19:50]
A
Yeah, man. So I'm listening to a lot of McCoy Tyner. He was a jazz pianist that John Coltrane played with almost exclusively for like a six year period. And this guy's got a massive catalog, like 30 albums deep. So I'm so stressed out trying to.
- [20:08]
B
Get into it all. Are you a vinyl guy? Is that part of a minimalist experience? Is not having access to all of it all at once?
- [20:15]
A
I like vinyl. I don't own vinyl. I listen digitally.
- [20:18]
B
Oh, Cause it's more stuff. What a conundrum.
- [20:20]
A
Yeah, what a conundrum. Yeah. But you know what? There's an interesting little book right now called the Revenge of Analog. And it's talking about how there is kind of this return to the earthiness of things. And people want paperbacks and hardcovers now. People want records or even CDs. They want something that they can touch. And this is a very important movement to me because I don't believe that minimalism is an anti thing philosophy. I don't believe that it's intrinsically good to digitize everything. I think things matter. I think from a religious point of view, the incarnation represents the aim to sanctify matter, to redeem matter. All the good that we do, all the evil that we do, we do it through these bodies. We do it with things. And I think there's some good in recognizing the beauty of things and finding them in their proper place. So minimalism isn't about being anti thing. It's about appreciating things by getting all the silly self defeating stories out of the way so that we can see it for what it really is. Yeah.
- [21:30]
B
I'm guessing you believe in the mantra of you can't take it with you. But what if I have it on my icloud drive? I subscribe to the terabyte, so I got a lot of stuff. I can take it with me in a sense, you know. What about digital clutter?
- [21:43]
A
Like if they put your mind on.
- [21:44]
B
Well, you know, the idea of having to go into my desktop folder and have to like declutter that, it stresses me out.
- [21:50]
A
Yeah.
- [21:51]
B
So like, what do you do with the digital clutter in our lives?
- [21:54]
A
Completely random. But did you know in high school I was in the play you can't take it with you. Have you ever seen that play?
- [22:00]
B
No.
- [22:02]
A
Centers around a Russian family. And I was the grandfather of a Russian family. This was like back in the day. I mean, you see this gray on my beard? This was back in the day, man. So this was like revolutionary stuff. My high school drama teacher was a boss. She cast me in that role as a Russian grandpa. As a Russian grandpa. Because she was like, this dude is just bringing the heat on this role and I'm giving it to him. Cause he's that good. You do an accent that sounds like I'm bragging now.
- [22:32]
B
No, I don't think anyone thinks you're bragging from a high school play.
- [22:35]
A
Okay, thank you.
- [22:37]
B
No one's impressed if I say that.
- [22:38]
A
And if I was and if I was. We can certainly see now.
- [22:42]
B
If you were a big time actor today, I'd say, wow. Yeah. You have the right to brag, but you were not cast in a future role after that. So what does that say about your acting abilities? I don't know. What I want to know is, did you do an accent? And looking back, do you regret that it could be considered a hate crime today? I broke T.K. i broke him. Somebody switch out his batteries. You got a USB C back there? Is that how you charge up? You're probably solar. That's more minimalist, I guess. Less cables. Less cables.
- [23:18]
A
You can't take it with you.
- [23:21]
B
If I were a rich man.
- [23:22]
A
So you're saying you can take it with you because you could put it on the cloud?
- [23:25]
B
Yeah, I don't know. It feels like.
- [23:27]
A
But isn't it about you?
- [23:28]
B
I can hide more stuff because it's not. Because it's not physical stuff anymore.
- [23:32]
A
Yeah. Well, it's funny. I mean, that certainly is a benefit, right? But one of the quote unquote benefits of physical stuff is that it requires you to be honest. Because, you know, you can't ignore the boxes. You gotta walk around them. They're kind of imposing. And, you know, your space is finite, and so you only have a limited amount of room. Once we digitize everything, it allows us to just kind of be a little more loose and casual and not think as critically about what we're taking on. And even though you're sweeping things under a digital rug, it's creating for a lot of people, a lot of information anxiety. Where now, because people own thousands of books on their Kindle, they can't make a simple decision about what they want to read. That's not a problem for all of us. I have a Kindle. I have a lot of books on there. I have no problem deciding what to read. But a lot of the clients I talk to, they have these kinds of issues. And much of this comes from a sense of this intangible overwhelm from not being digitally managed. Well, I mean, Cal Newport wrote an entire book about this concept on digital minimalism. But, man, I would say you still can't take it with you. Because the whole idea is that when you're gone, the only thing that you can take with you is the character that you've developed while you were here. So virtue, that's the true and timeless treasure. So this is why something like your mom saying, I'm not gonna buy you that T shirt, and you get a job and you mow the lawn. And you work really hard for it for, like, four months. And then you get that T shirt and you just cherish it and you value it. This is why those experiences matter, because it's not about the T shirt. It's about what you had to go through to get there. It's about how you had to develop. It's about the sense of gratitude you have for things. That's the kind of stuff that makes things valuable. That kid loves that T shirt because he had to work for it. And it represents for him his power to create, his ability to be patient. It's always that way. There are no sentimental items. There are only sentimental people. Anytime we think an item is valuable, it's because we've imbued it with meaning through some kind of story. But the real value is in our virtue. It's in our character.
- [25:40]
B
Oh, that's good.
- [25:41]
A
Yeah.
- [25:41]
B
You're a devout Catholic. Can I say that out loud?
- [25:45]
A
Well, if you can't, I guess I would no longer be a devout.
- [25:48]
B
I wouldn't say devout. I would say a secret Catholic. But you have a video on YouTube that has, like, 700,000 views of, like, a rosary testimony, right?
- [25:57]
A
Yeah, that's right.
- [25:58]
B
So I thought it'd be fun to play a little game. You don't get to talk about this with a lot of people. So I'm gonna be your priest, and you're gonna do a little confessional.
- [26:06]
A
Okay.
- [26:07]
B
Is that fair? Do you trust me?
- [26:08]
A
I trust you.
- [26:09]
B
I don't know the role of the priest in that. If it's just to, like, hear you out and be like, all right, you're good. Is that how it works? They don't give you, like, life advice, right?
- [26:17]
A
Sometimes they do, yeah.
- [26:18]
B
Okay. I'm happy to do that, too. But let's play a little game. You confess. What's something that you purchased recently that was amiss, that you're like, I thought this was going to do something for me. I ended up returning it, throwing it away, giving it away to a fault.
- [26:34]
A
I just buy books. You've known me for years. You see me, I can't dress. Nobody's ever confused me for having style.
- [26:41]
B
Well, it's an easy outfit now. You know, no offense, but the closet is not the most exciting.
- [26:49]
A
Right. But I'm taking advantage of that. Right. I don't like to think about it. I don't like to buy things. And so people just. They overlook it. They go, oh, this guy's a minimalist bomb. So it's okay that he's Dressed like that, Right?
- [27:00]
B
Yeah. Well, it's in the contract, I imagine, too, that you have to get rid of all non black clothing. Cause we're in mourning of losing all of our stuff.
- [27:09]
A
Exactly.
- [27:10]
B
Okay.
- [27:11]
A
So, like, man, I just buy, like, books and I.
- [27:14]
B
Physical books.
- [27:14]
A
Yeah.
- [27:15]
B
Okay.
- [27:15]
A
Yeah, I buy digital books, too. I'm not an either or guy. But I don't miss. I don't miss because I don't read to become smart. I don't read what the world says I should read. I read what interests me. I go, oh, that sounds like a fascinating story. Oh, that book promises to make me think in a new direction. And I always get something good out of it, man.
- [27:37]
B
So, like, so no regrets for you?
- [27:41]
A
No, not at the level of buying things.
- [27:43]
B
Okay.
- [27:43]
A
I mean, I've got regrets about life choices, but in terms of buying things. Like some movies, some books are better than others, some T shirts last longer than others. But like, no, I don't experience regret when it comes to buying. Yeah, that's just not.
- [27:57]
B
You never go a little risky with the Trader Joe's, you know, seasonal item and go, well, that was a miss.
- [28:03]
A
No, man, it's truly perfect America. I can't think of anything like that. I mean, what does that look like for you?
- [28:09]
B
Like, you know, the things I buy, then I didn't use them and I said I would use them. And then there's the guilt of like, well, you did this last time. Why'd you buy a bag of spinach knowing full well you didn't know what you were gonna do with that bag of spinach?
- [28:20]
A
Yeah, I mean, so I just thought.
- [28:22]
B
I should get spinach.
- [28:23]
A
I've had moments where maybe I bought too much more than I could consume. Right. Like, and you have to just sort of get better at that. So it's like, oh, I bought a bunch of bananas. Cause I thought I was just gonna be crushing it on my fruit eating. And it turns out that this forced me to see myself more honestly, which is like, yeah, I don't eat as much as I eat as much of a.
- [28:45]
B
You're not a banana, man.
- [28:46]
A
Yeah, yeah, I'm not as much of a banana, man, as I thought I would be. Which is bananas when you think about it. But, yeah, man. But even then, it's just like, all right, okay. Buy less next time.
- [28:56]
B
So if I walked in your house, what would be a surprising thing? I'm like, oh, okay. As a minimalist, I'm surprised that you have XYZ in your house.
- [29:05]
A
I don't know.
- [29:06]
B
Or that you spent this much money on a thing. Is there something that you're like, no, this was worth it. You would defend it, defend your honor if I walked in your house right now?
- [29:16]
A
I don't think there's anything. I think there are things that will surprise you, but I don't think there's anything you look at and go, oh, that surprises me that a minimalist would have that.
- [29:25]
B
In the spirit of minimalism, give me one good reason to read your book. Just one. I have my reasons. I want you to give me your reason.
- [29:33]
A
Yeah. My book will help you develop a harmonious relationship with the entire emotional spectrum, and it'll help you let go of a way of thinking that might cause you to interpret unpleasant emotional experiences as if they are your enemy. You know, I really cut to the core of this idea that, like, feeling sad, feeling depressed, feeling anxious, feeling jealous, feeling all of these emotions that no one wants to brag about feeling is an indicator that something is wrong with you. I think it's like the different types of friends that we have. You know, imagine that, you know you're sick and you need to do a checkup. Or imagine that, you know your car is making a funny noise. Or imagine that your door was left open and you've got a buddy in your life who tells you about that. It doesn't make you go, yay. You don't have the same reaction that you have when your buddy cracks a joke. But some of our friends are really funny and they're good at making us laugh. And then some of our friends aren't funny at all, but they tell us things that even if they're unpleasant, we need to hear. And our feelings are like that. But they're all our friends. And as I say in the book, when you resent your feelings, you resist the wisdom that they're there to provide.
- [30:59]
B
That's good.
- [31:00]
A
Have you not watched the rosary video?
- [31:03]
B
I haven't. I'm scared it'll convert me.
- [31:05]
A
As a matter of principle, I'm scared.
- [31:06]
B
It'Ll convert me as an Arabic Baptist. You know, I can't be swayed.
- [31:10]
A
Wait, what did you say? A what?
- [31:11]
B
Arabic Baptist.
- [31:12]
A
I never heard Arabic Baptist.
- [31:14]
B
We're a small but mighty people.
- [31:16]
A
Is the Arabic an actual denominational qualifier?
- [31:19]
B
Yes.
- [31:20]
A
Or is that really.
- [31:21]
B
You can Google it. Arabic Evangelical Baptist.
- [31:25]
A
Really? So what will be the difference between, like, an Arabic Baptist and just the.
- [31:29]
B
A normal Baptist and more hummus? That's mostly it in the language. I mean, that's a qualifier. The sermons are in Arabic, so don't show up like, whoa, whoa, what's going on?
- [31:44]
A
Can you understand Arabic?
- [31:45]
B
I do, but not the sermons, because it's a formal version of Arabic that is not the conversational version.
- [31:51]
A
Every church service.
- [31:52]
B
But what they do is they got a guy in the back, Bashir, my guy, and he's translating in English the whole time. So you got your headphones on to hear the translation. So if you're ever in West Roxbury, Massachusetts, roll up to the Arabic Evangelical Baptist Church.
- [32:06]
A
Man, I have to. If you want a good word, check that out. It's interesting. Like, having services in different languages. So I haven't experienced that with the homily. So, you know, there's the Latin mass, and there's also. There are, like, 21 different rites in the Catholic Church, and there's a church in LA that it's the Maronite rite. And so a lot of the chanting, a lot of the prayers, it's in Aramaic. The homily is in English. But, man, there's something special about having something going on. Maybe not all the time, but some of the time that's just a little bit above that intellect.
- [32:44]
B
Well, I'll be honest, I feel a little closer to God when I hear it in Arabic, because I'm like, this is a little closer to the original tongue. You know, I watch Passion of the Christ. I go, I know a few of those words.
- [32:53]
A
Yeah, yeah. And it's also a direct encounter with some kind of transcendence. Right. It's you knowing that something is going on. You don't fully understand it. And it's beautiful to understand, but it's also beautiful to engage what you don't understand.
- [33:06]
B
That's lovely.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah.
- [33:08]
B
TK always enjoy hanging out with you. Wanna make sure everyone checks out all of your work, so we'll link that in the description. Check out the minimalist podcast, his book, Emotional Clutter, which, by the way, is free.
- [33:17]
A
Yes, sir.
- [33:18]
B
So you got nothing to lose. Now, if you wanna purchase the audiobook and support TK's family, you go ahead and do that.
- [33:23]
A
The audiobook, by the way, if I can make a little pitch for it, is it involves a conversation between Josh and I at every point of intersection. You know, like between the chapters.
- [33:34]
B
It's a little bonus.
- [33:36]
A
Yeah. So I kind of add context, tell personal stories. Josh will ask me questions and give his two cents. So in the audiobook, it's not just me reading it, it's me reading it, pausing, and having a conversation with Josh about it. Wow. Yeah. And by the way, if you're not gonna watch my rosary video. Just click on it and just get a view. Let it run, man.
- [33:56]
B
Yeah, get an extra view on that.
- [33:57]
A
Come on, man, give me the view.
- [33:58]
B
I'll do that for you.
- [33:59]
A
That's what I do for this show.
- [34:00]
B
Well, I'll tell you this, it's an honor talking with you. And the only reason I ever wish to die is that in hopes that you would do the eulogy. So we have it on video now that you agreed to that.
- [34:11]
A
I'll have the Morgan Freeman voice down.
- [34:14]
B
By then, hopefully you'll be old enough that people think I got Morgan Freeman. You know, my Arabic Baptist family will be like, oh my gosh, he knew Morgan. I love it. Well, good to hang out with you, man.
- [34:26]
A
Likewise, brother.
- [34:27]
B
Subscribe if you want more of this. T.K. coleman, ladies and gentlemen.
- [34:30]
A
Appreciate you.
- [34:31]
B
Huge thanks to T.K. for joining me today. If you want to check out his book, Emotional Clutter, I'll drop a link to that in the description. And yes, it's available as an audiobook. And if you want some more tips on decluttering your life and practicing minimalism, I recently interviewed another third of the minimalists, Joshua Fields Milburn. Three names, not very minimalist. Joshua. Why doesn't he just go by J?
- [34:51]
A
All right.
- [34:51]
B
It's a little more casual, more minimalist, and a lot more mysterious. You can click here to check it out next or use the link in the description. That's it for today. Be sure to hit subscribe on this channel to get more content like this. Hit like on this video. Leave a comment with something you learned. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.