I Confronted Graham Stephan and Jack Selby

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "I Confronted Graham Stephan and Jack Selby"

Podcast: George Kamel Show (Ramsey Network)
Episode Date: June 24, 2026
Guests: Graham Stephan & Jack Selby (Ice Coffee Hour)
Theme: George Kamel interviews popular YouTubers and finance personalities Graham Stephan and Jack Selby, probing their approaches to credit, debt, real estate, crypto, and the culture of money advice—all with humor and candid hot takes.

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Overview

This episode centers around George Kamel’s animated confrontation with Graham Stephan and Jack Selby of Ice Coffee Hour, challenging their financial philosophies, lifestyle choices, and the popular myths in personal finance. The trio dive into real-life experiences with credit scores and debt, the evolving world of crypto and meme coins, the California exodus, the pitfalls of chasing “manosphere” money, and a rapid-fire lightning round on success, spending, and true wealth—all with wit, snark, and plenty of honest debate.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Credit Scores: Pride, Disillusionment & Reality

[02:12-04:40]

• George quizzes Graham and Jack on their current credit scores.
  • Graham: “It’s 843 right now…I've never gotten to 850 before.” [02:24]
  • Jack: “I have, like, 770, which is insane. There is actually no general theme that they follow. It’s very arbitrary.” [03:34]
• Both observe the credit score game is mainly about handling debt, not true wealth.
  • George: “The credit score really is only a measure of how well you’ve handled debt and not actually how well you’re doing financially?” [04:42]
  • Jack: “I would agree.” [04:51]
• Key Insight: High scores reflect debt management, but aren’t necessarily a sign of financial strength.

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2. Debt: Strategies, Risk, and Mindset

[05:39-07:29]

• Jack shares he just took on a $1M business loan, while Graham is planning to borrow against stocks using a complex “box spread” options play.
  • Graham: “You could borrow money against stocks, and then you write it off as a capital loss. So it’s like the step beyond a mortgage.” [05:58]
  • Moments of humor: Graham insists there’s “zero risk” unless the S&P500 “falls 92%.” [07:19]
• George challenges if this is overcomplication for most listeners.
  • “Would you say there is some risk in that, though?” [07:15]

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3. Leaving California & The Real Estate Slog

[07:41-10:58]

• Graham details his frustrations selling LA investment property.
  • “I’m sick and tired of it. It is such a headache.” [08:41]
  • He must spend $70-80K to appeal to owner-occupiers; multifamily sales in LA have slumped.
• On tenants and emotional ties:
  • “Me and him and his family, we get along great. He’s one of the easiest tenants I’ve ever had.” [11:01]

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4. Good Debt vs Bad Debt & The Algorithm Dilemma

[11:07-12:57]

• Good debt is debt that generates more money than it costs.
  • Graham: “Good debt is something that makes you more money than you spend.” [11:15]
  • Question: What if YouTube revenue tanks?
  • Joking solution: “Stripping.” [11:23]
• Grant Cardone’s “get rich quick” idea: become an AI consultant; the group texts Cardone, who gives a playbook for hitting $1M/year by targeting small businesses for AI consulting services. [15:30-16:20]

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5. Crypto, Meme Coins, & Gambling Mentality

[17:37-18:45], [20:10-22:14]

• On crypto:
  • Graham: “To a certain degree…I think bitcoin, ethereum has potential. But meme coins…pump and dumps, basically.” [17:49]
  • Both have around 10-12% of portfolios in crypto.
  • Graham’s legendary Dogecoin-to-Rolex trade: “I bought for 100 bucks. Sold it at 13,000.” [18:36]
• On sports betting & collectibles:
  • Jack: “I sports bet. I think it’s fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget. ... The problem is when you start saying it’s an investment.” [21:14]
  • Graham distinguishes sports betting from card collecting: “Pokemon cards…better than sports betting because…you’re still retaining an asset.” [21:36]
  • Graham’s Pokémon collection: “Now it's probably like $35 grand of Pokemon, but I maybe spent eight.” [22:00]

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6. Manosphere Money & Influencer Bias

[22:14-23:11]

• The group discusses whether Ice Coffee Hour perpetuates the “manosphere” mentality of Lambo-chasing entrepreneurship.
  • Graham: “I promote the most insignificant lifestyle out there…living in half of a duplex and not buying coffee.” [23:03]
  • Jack: “We show the entire world…if we have someone on the right, we follow it up with someone on the left.” [23:22]

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7. Lightning Round – Spending, Success & Subtle Wealth

[23:30-30:33]

• What they refuse to spend money on:
  • Graham: “Coffee. This one was free today.” [23:43]
  • Jack: “Expensive clothes.” [23:43]
• Surprising stuff on recent statements:
  • Jack: “A good thousand bucks at Coachella. Yeah. Easy. That’s fun.” [25:35]
  • Graham: “Maybe a lot of Amazon purchases…probably for the warehouse.” [25:41]
• How to win with money in 2026?
  • Both: “Save.” (Jack adds, “Invest. Just to disagree.”) [26:47]
• Biggest lie about success:
  • Graham: “You’re gonna get it from a single course some dude’s selling.” [27:17]
  • Jack: “That it’s impossible…Success is absolutely possible for literally every single person. It’s hard, but it’s not complicated.” [27:31]
• Tells for being “secretly broke”:
  • Graham: “Head to toe designer clothes—the first thing through my mind is they’re broke.” [27:56]
  • Jack: “I honestly just look at the shoes. If their shoes are kind of battered…” [28:27]
  • Graham: “It’s when they brag…Because the really wealthy people never talk about it.” [29:23]
• Final take on money:
  • Graham: “Money is freedom.” [29:50]
  • Jack: “Money is simple.” [29:59]
  • George: “I just value simplicity and peace over leverage or arbitrage. That’s the truth.” [29:59]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Graham Stephan:

  • “To have a good credit score, you have to pay your debts on time, as agreed, consistently. You miss one payment and your score drops by, like, 30 points.” [05:11]
  • “It would be dumb [to pay cash], because I could borrow right now at like 3.54% after capital losses at 3.54. That’s inflation. It’s free money.” [06:46]
  • “I promote living in half a duplex and not buying coffee to save money.” [23:03]

• Jack Selby:

  • “The thing that I don’t understand about your credit score…it’s very arbitrary how they give you a credit score.” [03:34]
  • “Success is absolutely possible for literally every single person. It’s hard, but it’s not complicated.” [27:31]
  • On his crypto journey: “I sold [Dogecoin] at 13,000, and then bought a Rolex I now call the Dogelex.” [18:43]

• George Kamel:

  • “Would you say there is some risk in that, though?” on box spreads [07:15]
  • “The credit score really is only a measure of how well you’ve handled debt and not actually how well you’re doing financially?” [04:42]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|---------------| | Credit Score Chat | 02:12 – 04:40 | | Debt & Leverage Strategies | 05:39 – 07:29 | | Exiting California & Real Estate Headaches | 07:41 – 10:58 | | Box Spread & AI Consulting (Cardone) | 11:07 – 16:20 | | Crypto, Meme Coins, and Gambling | 17:37 – 22:14 | | “Manosphere” & Influencer Money | 22:14 – 23:11 | | Lightning Round (Spending, Success) | 23:30 – 30:33 |

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Tone & Takeaways

• Candid, irreverent, nerdy with strong snark.
• The episode demystifies common personal finance tropes (credit scores, “good” debt, meme coins as investments, designer wealth signals).
• Both guests encourage calculated risk but also advocate for a straightforward life: “Save, invest, stay frugal, don’t fall for hype.”
• The show closes by poking fun at the complexity of modern financial advice, with George prioritizing peace and simplicity over leveraged complexities.

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For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is a whirlwind of practical honesty, pointed humor, and inside takes on making—and keeping—money in a world full of financial noise and social pressure.

Transcript

[A]

It's been so long since I've seen people into house hacking lately because interest

[B]

rates have gone up so much just doesn't make sense.

[A]

Financially, it's harder right now.

[C]

I sports bet I think it's fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget. My friends do it and I recommend, hey guys, just do it with your entertainment budget. I have no problem with any of that. The problem is when you start saying it's an investment.

[B]

But these guys are out there, these 23 year olds. They all want to be entrepreneurs. They probably watch your channel. Do you think you have perpetuated the manosphere lifestyle?

[C]

I think if you're publicly promoting one agenda, I would rather publicly promote your agenda because I think this goes with the assumption that people are smart enough and disciplined enough to capitalize off this last question.

[B]

Money is. I'm about to sit down with two guys who've made more money talking about money than most people actually working for money. And that's Graham Stephan and Jack Selby. Or as I affectionately call them by their couple name, Grac Stafelby. You know them from Ice Coffee Hour. And today I'm confronting them on credit scores, crypto and California dreams. Getting crushed. And who's bringing you this beautiful conversation? Our friends at Delete, a sponsor of this channel. Let's get to it. Graham, Jack, welcome back.

[A]

Thank you.

[C]

Thank you for having me.

[B]

You guys look good.

[A]

We're tired.

[B]

Yeah. You've been on the road or what?

[C]

No.

[A]

No. You did this so early in the morning.

[B]

It's 9:30.

[A]

It's really 7:30 our. It's 7:24 our time. We have to wake up early, get here before I usually ever wake up.

[B]

Oh, I can't wait for you to have kids. You're screwed, man. That's gonna be brutal.

[A]

I'd be sleeping then.

[B]

Well, you know what? It's not gonna be a sleepy episode. I'm gonna get the energy up here. Richest Iced Coffee Hour guest you've interviewed. I'm guessing it's a billionaire.

[A]

Yes. It would be Michael Saylor.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

I would say Michael Saylor followed by Papa John.

[C]

I mean, Grant Cardone could be in the argument. I'm just saying.

[B]

Could he though?

[C]

Well, we don't know. It's not verified.

[A]

I would say Ramsay.

[B]

Dave Ramsey.

[A]

Wealthier.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than Cardone.

[C]

We don't know this.

[A]

We don't.

[C]

It's just pure speculation.

[B]

Sure. But Grant Cardone could go bankrupt tomorrow. Zero chance of that happening with Dave. So I think that gives Dave a

[C]

point that could Give him a point.

[A]

He's got a point.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, all right, I want to know this. You guys are your credit score guys. I famously don't have one, so I wanted to know, kind of living vicariously through you, what is your credit score currently? Can you pull up the app and find out? How does that work?

[A]

It's 8:43 right now.

[B]

Did you check this morning? Is it like, you have your morning coffee?

[A]

No, I check, like, once a week.

[B]

Okay. It doesn't change.

[A]

No. I have an account with Experian, and

[B]

so it just updates 8:43 and is the highest. Sort of like an 850.

[A]

850. I've never gotten to 850 before.

[B]

Does that make you mad?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Have you called Experian to say, hey, can you bump me seven points? Make me feel really good?

[A]

I should have.

[B]

What does that do for you at this stage of life other than, like, getting good insurance rates?

[A]

I could brag about it on a podcast.

[B]

That's about it.

[A]

That's about it right now.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. But you know what? Ten years ago, it would have given me such low. Like, I don't quite need to borrow money the same way that I used to be able to.

[B]

Did you ever really need to borrow money?

[A]

Yes. Oh, yeah. When I'm buying a duplex and I'm putting 15% down, I'm able to get, like, a 3% mortgage rate fixed for 30 years.

[B]

Could you have paid cash at that point?

[A]

No.

[B]

You didn't have them. This is before.

[A]

This is when you were, like, just starting mid-20s. I couldn't pay, you know. Cause I was buying this place for, like, let's say, 6 to $900,000 and putting money into it. There's no way I had that amount of money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I had 150 I could put down.

[B]

And that got you started?

[A]

That got me started, sure. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. How about you?

[C]

Okay. So I actually didn't even have credit Karma on my phone, so I had to download it real quick. But I have, like, 770, which is insane. It's absolutely insane. The thing that I don't understand about your credit score is, is that there is actually no general theme that they follow. It's very arbitrary how they give you a credit score. Because when I first got my credit cards when I was 18, I had a score of 730 right out the gate, 730. And I have gone up 40 points since getting two mortgages.

[A]

I have eight credit cards.

[C]

Who knows how many I have only ever paid off? I'VE never been late on payments. I didn't even finance a car. I paid cash for my car. I have a perfect credit. In terms of, like, what you're doing,

[B]

you are fiscally responsible.

[C]

I am low utilization. I do everything exactly right. And it's gone up 30 points over 10 years.

[A]

So I'll tell you what's going on with Jack is that he needs more time.

[C]

How do I need more time? It's been 10 years.

[A]

Yeah, because you've opened up new accounts recently, like the mortgage. The mortgage is considered a new account.

[C]

Before the mortgage, I had 770. My credit score does not change. Doesn't.

[A]

When you have more than 10 plus.

[B]

Have you considered that the credit score really is only a measure of how well you've handled debt and not actually how well you're doing financially?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I would agree.

[A]

I mean, that's.

[C]

But I also will say people with higher credit scores probably are better with money. Like, if you were to, like, do a plot chart, generally, like, if your credit score is 500, are you good with money?

[B]

Well, usually if you say someone's bad with money, it means they are in a bunch of consumer debt. Probably missing payments, paying interest.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Like, no savings.

[A]

To have a good credit score, you have to pay your debts on time, as agreed. Consistently. You miss one payment and your score drops by, like, 30 points.

[B]

Too much, too fast. Close. Too many counts too fast. That's a pretty insane.

[A]

That'll be short term, but it'll eventually rebound.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If someone says, I need to build my credit, that usually does not suggest that they're in a good spot financially.

[B]

So it sounds like you're a little bit. I wouldn't say stressed about the credit score, but you're a little miffed that it's not higher than.

[C]

I don't care.

[B]

So at this point in life, are you guys getting more debt for anything? What are you taking on?

[C]

Well, I just took on a million dollar loan. Yeah.

[A]

Jack just borrowed.

[B]

For your primary mortgage?

[C]

No, for business.

[B]

Business, yeah. Okay. This is the Iced Coffee Hour headquarters at this point. Yeah. Okay. And then you have a primary mortgage as well.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. And how about you, Graham?

[A]

Yeah, I'm gonna be taking on some more debt at some point, but I'm not doing it with a mortgage. I'm doing what's called a box spread. So it's an options play where you could borrow money against stocks, and then you write it off as a capital loss. So it's like the step beyond a mortgage.

[B]

So you have let's say a million dollars in stocks. You go to the bank and say, hey, I've got a million in stocks. Can you give me a loan?

[A]

No, this is not a bank. This is not a bank. You do it through your brokerage, and you're able to basically borrow money against your stocks, but it's counted as a capital loss. Because if you buy a primary, you can't deduct the mortgage interest. So if I get a 5% interest rate, I can't deduct that. So when you think of what that's worth after tax, that's like me making 8% to be able to pay 5.

[B]

Couldn't you avoid all of that if you just paid cash?

[A]

That would be dumb, because I could borrow right now at like 3.54% after capital losses at 3.54. That's inflation. It's free money. In fact, I'm actually getting paid to borrow money they're paying me.

[B]

Why wouldn't you do that? Just go all in, put all the chips in? If they're gonna pay you money to

[A]

do this, you could and people do.

[B]

Why don't you, then?

[A]

Cause I don't need to on that. But if I'm buying a primary, I'm not gonna be selling out of stocks to do that.

[B]

Okay. Would you say there is some risk in that, though?

[A]

No.

[B]

Zero risk?

[C]

No.

[A]

The only risk. I calculated this the other day, actually. If the s and P500 falls 92%, I risk a capital call. But as long as he has some.

[B]

That's like Great Depression levels.

[A]

Yes. As long as it doesn't fall 92%, I'm fine.

[B]

It has been about 100 years since the Great Depression. I think we're due. Would you agree?

[A]

Yeah, but even then it fell 89%, so I should be.

[B]

Okay, well, let's talk about this. You famously left California, quote, unquote. You had a bunch of real estate there and you said, I am done. Sick of it. I'm sick of the bureaucracy, the insanity. I'm selling off the properties. I'm not gonna be your real estate guru anymore. I'm just gonna be a little stock boy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What happened?

[A]

People have heard this story so often,

[B]

I think not my audience tired of it. Trust me. They don't watch your content.

[A]

Yeah, I think we have a huge overlap. You don't think so?

[B]

I think they know of you, but I don't know that they're watching all of your videos and watching all of my videos. It's simply too much. It's Too much nerdery. I mean, you're already starting to look like me. In fact, I have a jacket very similar to that. Where'd you get that?

[A]

Do you like this?

[C]

Yeah, it's, it's.

[A]

It's mine.

[B]

Is it?

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

Where's that from?

[A]

No, it doesn't matter.

[B]

That looks just like the jacket I had in my wardrobe out here.

[C]

No.

[B]

Did you grab that on the way in?

[A]

No. So in terms of the properties though.

[C]

Yeah, that looks great. I like that. That looks great. I'm gonna have to buy that.

[A]

Let's talk about the properties. I'm sick and tired of it. It is such a headache. And so I'm prepping them now to sell. But even now, prepping to sell is its own headache because LA Multifamily is taking a huge hit, so investors are not buying it. So my only chance selling these for top dollar is to appeal to an owner user. But to appeal to an owner user, I have to go through. I'm spending probably 70 to 80 thousand dollars this month.

[B]

On what?

[A]

Fixing them up. I'm redoing floors, windows, paint, landscape. There's so much like stuff I'm doing to make it look nice.

[B]

Did it already need that when you bought it and you just neglected it?

[A]

No, it's just.

[B]

So the tenants destroyed it?

[A]

It's different.

[C]

No, no, no.

[A]

It's different when you're doing a rental versus an owner. An owner user wants the place to be perfect. Move in, ready. If you're selling to an investor, they're gonna come in, they're gonna do their own things. Every investor's gonna be unique in terms of what they wanna do to it. But my chance of selling this is hoping that someone wants to live in one of the units and rent out the others to cover their cost.

[B]

Isn't that the cool thing to do right now, to house hack? Yeah.

[A]

It's been so long.

[B]

That's all I see on TikTok.

[A]

It's been so long since I've seen people into house hacking lately because interest rates have gone up so much.

[B]

It just doesn't make sense financially.

[A]

It's harder right now and it's really only specific to certain locations. Like Vegas. We don't have duplexes and triplexes. All single family.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

LA is a lot of duplexes, triplexes.

[B]

Do you think you could take a loss on some of these if they're hard to sell?

[A]

No, no, I'm not gonna take a loss.

[B]

Okay. They've appreciated enough that they're like, yeah,

[A]

I mean, I bought them in like 2016, 17.

[B]

Are they paid off now?

[A]

No, no, no. I got 30 year mortgages on them at like 3 something percent. 3.375%.

[B]

Are they just sitting right now or they have tenants still.

[A]

One of them is completely empty, which means I could sell it for a premium and then I have another one with a tenant.

[B]

It's kind of awkward to do all the renovations while the tenant's living there, isn't it?

[A]

No. I gave him an offer for a buyout and we just couldn't come to an agreement on a price because I look at like, okay, what am I going to pay for a buyout versus what is the ROI of then selling it empty and was at a price where it just. It didn't make sense. And the tenants had been there a long time. I really like these people a lot too. And so I have a feeling, you know, they're just gonna stay.

[B]

Now you're emotionally invested, you're like, well, we're friends now.

[A]

We are, yeah. Me and him and his family, we get along great. He's one of the easiest tenants I've ever had.

[B]

How about this one? You interviewed Simon Squibb. You were asked about good debt versus bad debt, and you said, quote, I have a lot of good debt, and good debt is something that makes you more money than you spend. Correct. Is that true?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What happens if YouTube changes the algorithm? Iced Coffee Hour. Income gets cut in half.

[A]

Stripping.

[B]

That's what you would turn to.

[C]

What I would. No, that's what he would turn to. I think that he.

[A]

Oh, no, I was talking about Jack.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think he was all talking about he was our best ticket. I actually disagree.

[C]

I think brand would attract a larger audience.

[B]

You're more of a brand manager. You saw more behind the scenes guy.

[C]

You saw him with the denim before this. I'm telling you, there was something there. Funny.

[A]

That wasn't even my jacket.

[C]

That was a no.

[A]

Jack was the one that commented how feminine it looked.

[B]

Is it feminine or denim? I think he was projecting because he's never felt comfortable in a denim jacket.

[C]

Someone was taking footage back there. Show the footage right now.

[B]

Don't tell me what to do. You asked Grant Cardone on Iced Coffee Hour what he would go into today if he wanted to get rich quick. His answer? I would become an AI consultant. I'd make a million dollars in year one.

[A]

The thing is, I. Yeah, you believe it? I believe if he was an AI consultant, he would make so much more than that the thing is, with Grant, he's naturally charismatic. He's a good salesperson. He could sell anything.

[B]

Even if it was a terrible product, he could sell it.

[A]

I don't think. I don't think AI consulting is a terrible product.

[B]

No, no, no. AI consulting is. That's a. There's a market for that.

[A]

There's a huge market for that.

[B]

But this idea that, like, anybody you know, he was kind of saying, hey, anybody, if you just go be an AI consultant, you'll make a million dollars.

[A]

I think anyone has the potential to learn and build a business around that.

[B]

But how many people are actually doing it? Cause I've seen not just him, but other people are like, oh, just become a consultant and just 10x someone's business, and boom, you got a million bucks.

[A]

How would you do it?

[B]

Not by promising. I'm gonna 10x your business.

[C]

I could ask Grant Cardone right now.

[B]

I would use my current skillset to find work that I could do that is scalable.

[A]

If you want to. You want me to call Grant Cardone?

[B]

What are you gonna say?

[C]

I'm gonna say, how exactly would you make a million dollars your first year being an AI consultant? Do you want me to.

[B]

Yeah, let's do it.

[A]

Let's see if he picks up.

[B]

He's not picking up. He's probably blocked your number at this point.

[C]

Grant Cardone woke me up with a call three weeks ago.

[B]

What did he say?

[C]

He was asking about YouTube strategy. He called me. I didn't answer, and he called me again an hour later, and he woke me up, and I answered, well, did

[B]

you tell him, you're right to be a YouTube consultant?

[A]

It's a million dollars a year.

[C]

All right, here we go.

[B]

You don't work for free. He wouldn't either. Your call has been full.

[A]

Text him.

[B]

Text him, say, hey, I'm on a podcast right now.

[A]

I'm on a podcast.

[B]

We desperately want to know how you would make a million dollars as an AI consultant in year one.

[C]

Let me just do this.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Hey, Grant, I'm on a podcast right now, and they brought up you saying you would make a million dollars your first year being an AI consultant.

[A]

And.

[C]

And I thought it'd be really interesting to call you and get exactly how you do that. Also totally find an answer. If you could just text me a response. How you would make a million dollars your first year doing that. That would be incredible. Content.

[B]

Shout out also. Love you so much.

[C]

There we go.

[A]

Cool.

[C]

Now he's heard your voice.

[B]

I was hoping to sneak that in there. You did. Oh, that was a voice memo. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was a voice to text. I take it back.

[C]

Voice memo.

[B]

I wanted him to think you ended the text with lovely self.

[A]

Now it's you, now it's me.

[B]

Let's take a quick break to talk about some real financial drama. Your overpriced phone bill. But you can avoid that drama with Boost Mobile, a sponsor of today's video. You'll pay just $25 a month forever on their unlimited plan. No contracts, no hidden fees, no nonsense. You bring your unlocked phone, keep your number and enjoy unlimited wireless. Because who wants to limit their wireless? Nobody. So switching is simple. Just go to boostmobile.com Ramsey and then you know they'll take it from there. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost unlimited Plan. Talking money with Jack and Graham. Mostly fun. Having your personal data being bought, sold and traded. Mostly not so fun. And that's why I use Delete me as sponsor of today's video. They go out and remove your personal info from hundreds of data broker sites. The ones that are selling your email, your phone number, your address, your family's information, basically your entire digital life. And the best part, they do all the work for you behind the scenes all year long and send you a report showing you what they removed, where and how much time they've saved you. So start protecting yourself today. Take control of your digital Privacy and get 20% off their annual plans by going to JoinDeleteMe.com George, let's get back to the conversation, shall we?

[C]

Grant Cardone texted back immediately. Mind you, he said yes. Here's the exact thing that I would do. I would target small business owners, plumbers, contractors, H vac, chiropractors, dentists, et cetera. I would become an expert in one area systems accounting for sales response, marketing card dealers. I would install AI to resolve that problem. I would charge 6 to 8k a month. 10 clients, 8k a month. $1 million a year. There are 32 million small businesses in America. They can't afford to hire one person or two people or three people or four people. They're running their businesses. They have their problems or hands full with problems. I think he voice to texted this. Talking on AI I see impossible for the small business center. I'm sorry, he got his hands full. He had hired one person at 6, $8,000 a month. Doesn't have the HR, doesn't have the reach, doesn't know where to start, doesn't want to learn it. I'M not gonna lie to you.

[B]

Got it. Yeah.

[C]

That sounded like string of consciousness right there.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, but I get his point. You're gonna go to, like, these sort of, like, businesses that are not that sexy with people who do not want to understand AI, but see the value in it to offload and sort of lower their expenses and.

[C]

And I'm gonna be completely honest. I completely agree with him. Yeah. Like, I think that there is actually so much money to be made there.

[B]

Why are you doing it?

[C]

Cause I'm doing the iced coffee hour and I like pickleball.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, a million bucks doing AI consulting. AK a month from going.

[A]

The thing is, Jack can make 20,000amonth doing social media consulting.

[B]

So he does this as basically a ministry for you. Mm. He does this because you need it. Yes. For survival. This is all you have in life outside of a wife and a cat

[A]

and an aquarium, two cats and a dog.

[B]

Oh, wow. You got a lot going on.

[C]

It's a zoo.

[B]

You tried to set Jack up on a blind date. Who responded to that?

[A]

We got how many hundreds of responses?

[B]

But you haven't found love yet? No one of interest? Nobody in the pipeline currently?

[C]

No.

[B]

Does Macy have any single friends?

[A]

No, we got like a very similar group of friends. So everyone I know, bunch of dudes

[B]

is what I'm hearing.

[A]

It's mostly finance dudes.

[B]

That's terrible. You guys also had the dogecoin millionaire on your show. Do you guys still think that meme coins, or even just mainstream crypto, is anyone's path to wealth today?

[A]

To a certain degree. I think bitcoin ethereum has potential. I would say probably more so bitcoin. But meme coins are always gonna be there, and there are always going to be these spikes up and just pump and dumps, basically.

[B]

Would you consider that essentially gambling at this stage?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, yeah. For meme coins. Yes, absolutely.

[B]

How much crypto do you guys currently have? 12% of your portfolio. I mean, that's seven figures if you

[A]

do the napkin math.

[B]

Yeah, that's the only math I do. Yeah, I'm a napkin guy.

[C]

Probably like 10%.

[B]

Wow. Okay. You feel good about that? How's it been doing for you?

[C]

I'm probably break even.

[B]

Okay, I'm up today.

[A]

Bitcoin's up 3%.

[C]

Oh, is it? So maybe I'm up. I don't really know.

[B]

Well, you. I heard you talk about this a few years back that you sold your dogecoin you bought for 100 bucks. Sold it at 13,000.

[C]

Yeah, 1313 and a half.

[B]

And then you bought a Rolex that you now call the Dogelex.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Do you still have it?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Why aren't you wearing it?

[C]

I honestly forgot to bring a watch

[B]

on the whole trip.

[C]

On the whole trip? Yeah. I'm not a big watch guy, if I'm being honest.

[B]

What are you? Would you consider yourself a big white pickleball guy?

[A]

Look at his socks.

[C]

This is.

[A]

I like pickleball.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, this is.

[B]

Did you get a pickleball court installed on the new compound?

[C]

It's so expensive.

[A]

How much is it?

[C]

They're quoting me like 80 grand. No, but I also have to retain a wall. I have to do all this other work if I want to build a pickleball court.

[A]

Cause you have to level. What about the driveway? Just do it on the drive.

[C]

I'm going to change concrete. That is perfectly.

[B]

Who gets to design as this?

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Is this 5050 partnership? No, I bought it.

[A]

Jackpot.

[B]

Oh, this is all you?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you can do whatever you want to the car.

[C]

I can do whatever I want.

[A]

But I would just take the driveway in the side and just put a net there and just play right there.

[B]

Have you thought about doing a GoFundMe with the iced coffee hour audience and they can all come play pickleball? Am I the only one coming up with these ideas?

[C]

That's a really good idea, actually. I haven't even thought about that.

[A]

It could be like a membership.

[C]

The point being, it's really expensive to build a pickleball court. I would love to.

[B]

You need 80 people to give you 1000 do for exclusive access. They can schedule a time to come play with or without you.

[A]

That actually would be a good. Yeah.

[C]

DM me on Instagram if you're interested.

[B]

And if this works, I get 10%.

[C]

Deal.

[B]

Okay. I had Dr. Arthur Brooks on my show. Have you guys had him on? No. He's fantastic.

[A]

We want to.

[B]

He's brilliant. He talked about this doom loop, which is like the cycle of addiction that keeps you stuck and miserable. Like, you do the thing and then you feel terrible about the things. You need more of the thing. And I want to talk about that as it relates to personal finances, especially as we see a lot of young men out there who are facing gambling addiction. Sports betting, prediction markets. Now we got Pokemon cards and sports cards. Would you bucket all of that into this sort of addictive cycle?

[A]

No Pokemon cards.

[B]

Have you not seen people line up to just rip a pack up and see if there's something in it? Oh, is that not?

[A]

That's what I used to do when I was 8 years old. I had so much fun doing that.

[B]

And that 8 year old is still living inside of you. That degenerate gambler, eight year old hoping to get the car.

[A]

No, I don't think you could quite put Pokemon in the same category as like sports betting.

[B]

Which one's dumber?

[A]

Sports betting.

[B]

So to all the people out there who sports bet, saying the Pokemon guy saying my thing is dumb, what's your retort?

[A]

They're wrong.

[B]

You're saying just no, I see them both as the lottery.

[C]

None of it is investing, right? And then if it's not investing, what is it? You could just call it your entertainment expense. Some of it. Like for example, if you sports bet, that's truly gambling, right? I sports bet. I think it's fun, but I just do it with my entertainment budget. My friends do it and I recommend, hey guys, just do it with your entertainment budget. I have no problem with any of that. The problem is when you start saying it's an investment. And Pokemon cards, I would say is better than sports betting because you're buying something that doesn't necessarily, it's not consumable, it doesn't go away. Sports betting, you put $100, goes down to zero. Pokemon cards. You spend $100 on Pokemon card, maybe it depreciates 10%, 20% and maybe it goes up. So like you're still retaining an asset.

[B]

How much Pokemon cards do you have right now? What's the total value?

[A]

Dude, the value went up. My gosh, now it's probably like 35 grand a Pokemon, but I maybe spent eight.

[B]

Why don't you loan Jack half the pickleball court money by selling a Pokemon card? That could really.

[A]

I could do a box spread.

[B]

Well, I was recently in Beverly Hills on Rodeo Drive asking people, are you rich? And I talked to a bunch of 23 year old guys whose sole goal in life was to make a million dollars a month, drive Lamborghinis and live this sort of manosphere lifestyle.

[A]

Rodeo Drive is not rich.

[B]

I will agree with you.

[A]

Those people, if the people walking Rodeo Dr. Are all tourists, the really wealthy people do not shop at Rodeo Drive. They go to Century City Mall and they go into these like little boutique shops there. Okay, yeah, Rodeo Drive is just for marketing. That's all it is.

[B]

It's just a big billboard, basically. But these guys are out there, these 23 year olds, they all want to be entrepreneurs. They probably watch your channel. Do you think you have Perpetuated the manosphere lifestyle of I'm young, I want to be rich by the time I'm 25. No.

[A]

Gosh, I promote the most insignificant lifestyle out there of, like, living in the half of a duplex and, like, not buying coffee to save money.

[B]

Well, you personally are frugal, tightwad. But the people you have on iced coffee hour, like the Justin Wallers, for example, that's what people.

[A]

But then we also have a Bill Perkins right afterwards who's.

[B]

Or a George Camel.

[A]

Or a George Camel who's poor compared to show. We show the entire world. If we have someone on the right, we follow it up with someone on the left.

[B]

All right, we're gonna wrap with a lightning round. This is just a fill in the blank. So I'm gonna start with Graham. Then we'll go to Jack with his answer. The thing I refuse to spend money on is coffee. This one was free today.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

All right, Jack. The thing I refuse to spend money on is expensive clothes. Expensive clothes. What defines expensive?

[C]

For a shirt, let's say $100. For a jacket, A few hundred dollars.

[B]

That's the limit? Or is that like, that's expensive to you? Therefore, I'm not gonna do it.

[C]

That is expensive to me. Well, I may in some strange world. Let's say I'm, like, in Italy with my family, and I'm like, well, I can buy this random Italian sweater. I can only get here. Okay, yeah, I'll assign more budget to this. But I generally don't buy expenses. I just shop everything.

[B]

Costco or you get it for free. Yeah, I wish you could do hand me downs, but you guys are different sizes. That would have been nice. Could split a wardrobe. One thing that would surprise people about my last bank statement is neither of

[C]

us probably look at our bank statements.

[B]

I do, but you know what? Transactions have occurred in the last month. What would the thing be like? Man, if someone saw this, they'd be like, jack, what the heck was this about?

[C]

I could not tell you how much money $150 on. I could not tell you how much I have on my amex right now. I could not tell you I would pass. 3000 bucks is what my is the

[B]

balance on the Amex.

[C]

You want to look?

[B]

I'm not even looking. I feel dirty. Just logging into the Amex. Go for it. Okay, you got 1800 on the business gold. 370 on the platinum. 400,000 Membership Rewards points. Lord only knows what that means. Okay, how do I look at, like. Oh, okay. Business Gold shows the transaction. Chipotle coffee. Pho flower child. That's a good spot. In n out. More pho cleaners. More flower child. We're eating good, we're eating clean. I like that. Pest control. That ain't cheap. Coachella, Coachella. Coachella. Coachella. Coachella. Coachella. Coachella. Coachella. Holy Coachella. Batman.

[C]

I was buying. I went with, like, other, like, YouTubers.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And so I was buying a lot.

[B]

A good thousand bucks at Coachella. Yeah. Easy. That's fun. All right. That is surprising.

[A]

Nothing on mine, I would say. The only thing is maybe a lot of Amazon purchases.

[B]

That's normal. Is that mostly from AC or for you?

[A]

I would say most of them. Probably for the warehouse.

[B]

Oh, for the biz?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's all just, like, random.

[B]

What was this for the biz?

[C]

What is this? What is this?

[B]

I do air quotes sometimes. Why do you say I like to

[A]

make it business in air quotes?

[B]

Yeah. Well, is it a business? We don't know. Is it a shell company?

[C]

Oh, yeah, the business.

[B]

Is it a shell company?

[C]

No, it's a real company.

[B]

Everything's a write off if you're buying

[C]

stuff for the warehouse. Yes, yes.

[A]

Yeah, we bought these little things to boost a cabinet off of the floor, and we got one and a half inch little spacers. So that was like the last charge from Amazon. That's a business expense.

[C]

Right. When I went to Coachella, I went with people that source our brand deals and another ex guest on the iced coffee hour.

[B]

Business trip.

[C]

Right off. Yeah.

[B]

So irs, if you're watching. He's good. Yeah, he's good. I'm good people. All right, how about this one? People will win with money in 2026 if they save. Save. That's simple.

[C]

I would agree with that.

[A]

Save.

[B]

People come in with money in 2026 if they save.

[C]

Invest. Just to disagree.

[B]

Okay, perfect. The biggest lie about success is why

[A]

you giving me hard questions?

[C]

It's impossible.

[B]

I gave you soft tosses all day. We talked box spreads. I really. I let you do what you wanted.

[C]

Success today.

[B]

What really grinds your gears when you see it online and someone's going, well, this is the way, I guess.

[A]

I don't like when people sell these course systems. I mean, it's just to me it seems a little like.

[B]

So the biggest lie about success is that you're gonna get it from a single course. Some dude selling.

[A]

Probably. Probably. If I was to say something.

[B]

Okay, if you were to say something, which he didn't, but he would have said, jack the Biggest lie about success

[C]

is I would say that it's impossible. Cause a lot of people just don't think that there's light at the end of the tunnel. They think that all these people online, they're just all lying to me. They just want me to buy their stuff. It's like some people do, some people don't. But like, success is absolutely possible for literally every single person. It's really not that complicated. It's hard, but it's not complicated. Love it.

[B]

Someone is definitely secretly broke. If they.

[A]

Usually it's when I see someone wearing like head to toe designer clothes, the first thing through my mind is they're broke.

[B]

It's. They're fake rich, trying to look like they're successful.

[A]

Every really wealthy person I've seen, you have no idea. They all are. Like, they look like Jack. Yeah.

[B]

All of the successful people you've ever met look like Jack. White, tall, moderately handsome.

[A]

Let's not go that far.

[B]

Non designer logos.

[A]

Non designer logos.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. How about you, Jack? Someone is definitely secretly broke if they.

[C]

This is really. I honestly just look at the shoes.

[B]

It's all about the shoe game.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll look at the shoes.

[B]

So what tells you someone secretly broke when you look at their shoes?

[C]

Well, I guess it's not really secretly, but like, if their shoes are kind of battered.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

I've never.

[B]

Battered shoe equals prolation.

[C]

Yeah, I would. I mean, even though I will occasionally wear battered shoes, I just think that that's something that's a little bit less loud are the shoes that you're wearing. So, like, if your shoes are in good shape, then you're probably like. And this is like. I can't say this in a dogmatic way. Like, it's not everyone that has battered shoes. But, you know, I was at the blackjack table recently. I won $500.

[B]

Congrats.

[C]

Thank you very much.

[A]

It was in price.

[C]

I only wagered 200. It was. And there was a gentleman next to me and he was betting a lot of money. I was like, wow, I wonder if this person. I looked down and his shoes were battered. And I thought, wow, I want this guy to win, you know.

[B]

So you really feel for him? You have pity on him?

[C]

I didn't pity, but yeah, I wanted him to win.

[A]

I got a good answer. It's when they brag.

[B]

Oh, always.

[A]

Every person is like, oh, yeah, I did this. And I did this. I'm like, no, I don't believe any of it. Because the really successful wealthy people, they never Talk about it. Even when you ask, they tend to really like nothing.

[B]

Approved.

[A]

It's not that big of a deal. Oh no, this thing is fine.

[B]

All right, last question. Money is freedom. Took your answer. Were you going to say freedom too?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, disagree with him then you

[A]

could say expensive from the heart.

[C]

I say simple.

[B]

Money is simple.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's good. Yeah. I mean I'm just the complicated justification. And if I leverage this and move it over here and write this off and do the spread here and do the option that hurts my brain. I just think I'm not smart enough and I just value simplicity and peace over leverage or arbitrage. That's the truth.

[C]

I agree with you and I think if you're publicly promoting one agenda, I would rather publicly promote your agenda than publicly promote a box spread because I think this goes with the assumption that people are smart enough and disciplined enough to capitalize off this.

[B]

But new Ramsey personality Jack Selby guess is having the ring.

[C]

But big data would suggest that people aren't. People are very irresponsible, that people are less intelligent, less disciplined than that. And so what is a more productive thing to promote? Probably the thing that has a lower risk of failure which would be George's. However, if you're giving one on one advice or advice to a very specific

[B]

community, if Graham's talking to a gram, we're talking box spreads. But now some 23 year old is googling box spreads.

[C]

But it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing to talk about online. It's just what's a better to like a very broad audience. Probably yours has a lower risk of failure.

[B]

I think that's a perfect ending. I win. You guys lose. Thanks for being here. Big thanks to Jack and Graham for paying us a visit today. If you enjoyed this episode, you're gonna love this next one where Jack and Graham and I got out of the studio and hit the road for an episode of Millionaires and Cars Getting coffee. Click here to watch it next or use the link in the description. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.