A (2:59)

Yeah. Thank you for having me. It's important to me to share my story, so I'm happy to be on here today and talk a little bit more about my life and living with ocd. But, yeah, I'm a professional dancer for an NHL team here in Philadelphia, and I'm also an entrepreneur, so I started a refillable mascara formula while now I was in college and I've been working on it ever since.

B (3:23)

Wow, that's. That's awesome. So it's. It's like a refillable. We think of. Printers are refillable. Now we have refillable mascara. I mean, I. This is. This is genius. On the. By the way, really?

A (3:36)

Yes. Mascara tablets. So it's dissolvable and you just wash and refill your container. Yeah.

B (3:44)

It saves on landfills and product use and things like that, too. Yeah. Oh, well. Well, thank you for doing well for our environment, Paige. I appreciate it. When did you start to experience O C D symptoms? How did it come about in your life? What happened?

A (4:00)

So the earliest memories I have, probably the earliest one where I, like, became aware of what I was doing was not, you know, what everybody else around me was doing, was. I think I was in elementary school. And every day before elementary school, I would grab my hands on the top of the railing at the top of the stairs before I walked down and make sure my fingers, you know, felt just right on the top of the railing before I walked downstairs every day. And I remember my dad telling me he started to notice it. He was like, you got to stop doing that or you're going to try drive yourself a little bit insane. And I was like, maybe something that I'm doing is not normal. But I still didn't really recognize that it was OCD for probably another 18 years. Living with OCD and. Okay, yeah, so it started really young, and I didn't realize that I was. That I had OCD or that's what was happening until I was older and I looked back on it.

B (4:57)

How did you get the official diagnosis of it being OCD then? What. What brought that about?

A (5:02)

So, yeah, all throughout middle school, middle school is when I started to get intrusive thoughts. And that was probably a hard period, one of the hardest periods, because I was, you know, the time in middle school was already difficult in itself. And then dealing with these, like, really awful intrusive thoughts and not being able to share it with anybody because, you know, I was so just taken aback by them. So I just kept it to myself for so many years. And high school, it progressed. The intrusive thoughts progressed. It wasn't until college that I actually saw an ad on my social media page for no cd, and it was a video of somebody describing a relationship. Ocd, intrusive thoughts. And that was the first time that I connected to somebody and was like, oh, my gosh, that is exactly what I've been dealing with my whole life. So, yeah, it wasn't until I was about 22 in college that I got a diagnosis from no CD.

B (6:02)

Okay, well, thank you for using NOCD. We appreciate that and glad that it was there as a service for you. When you're introduced then to exposure and response prevention therapy. What was that like? And had you done therapy prior to that that maybe hadn't been quite as helpful? Because a lot of people before they go to ERP will usually do a more general talk therapy, and they'll learn diaphragmatic breathing and muscle relaxation, and it will just watch OCD get bigger instead of smaller. So was there a history there for you with that also?

A (6:37)

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. I had a bunch of.

B (6:40)

How did I know? Paid. I don't, you know, geez, I've never.

A (6:43)

Heard that that was a lucky guest. Yeah, yeah, it was, you know, just as you described. I went to talk therapy. I knew that something was off, but I don't. None of my talk therapists, you know, said or recognized that it was ocd. And I think a lot of the things I was not comfortable sharing with my ocd, because a lot of the intrusive thoughts are really something that, you know, people feel super overwhelmed and uncomfortable by. So it kind of just passed by. Nobody really caught on to it yet. And when I. I did other, you know, forms, I did EMDR for with my talk therapist before. But I remember the first day that I started no CD treatment. I was terrified, truly terrified. Because when I realized that that's what I had and I did, you know, the consultation, I thought that, like, my whole life, my OCD was like, magical powers. So I thought that it was something that, like, helped me achieve things, you know, in business and in life and all my goals, like, without ocd, I wouldn't have accomplished what I had. So I was like, so scared to lose it. And yeah, the first day I just grind the whole session, but it was like finally, like the grips were so tight, you know, on ocd. And like the first day I just like slightly loosened them and it was terrifying. But a year later, my symptoms are down like 76%.

B (8:18)

I'm so glad you brought that up because there are people who aren't educated about OCD who often say to me, I wish I had a little ocd. It would just help me be better in business, or it would keep my house cleaner or things like that. Now, going from you used to believe that OCD was helpful. What's it like on the other side to see how much OCD actually interfered and got in the way of the things that you thought it was helping you at one point?

A (8:46)

Absolutely. I mean, it was actually protecting me from like, positive experiences and possibilities, you know, like in relationship OCD and in business and, you know, like, career oriented. I was, I cared about these things so much. And my ocd, you know, it was the perfect fertile soil for my OCD to grow because of how much I cared about these things to the point where I would lower my ability to like, fully explore them out of a fear of, you know, like, losing them or what might happen. So, um, I think it didn't let me fully experience and like, kind of like indulge in what I love without this, like, fear and anxiety. Um, and instead it really, like, held me back and tried to keep me safe, quote unquote, when in fact, I really was just like, missing out on opportunities. So, yeah, it's, it's hard to look back on, but I am so incredibly relieved that I made that realization because it literally felt like I was like, like a wave of just relief came over me when I realized that.

B (10:03)

So you weren't successful because of ocd, you were successful despite having ocd?

A (10:08)

Absolutely.

B (10:09)

It was really what it was. Okay, as you were, let's, let's say. So you, you're going to develop this line of mascara, which I think is really cool how you've done it. What, what kind of doubts did ocd. I mean, I, I, if you don't mind getting a little granular in this, but I think it would be interesting for people to really hear this. How did OCD interfere even in that process and put doubts into the whole experience all the way along?

A (10:38)

Yeah, it was definitely a true test. I think it was two things One, entrepreneurship is just all uncertainty, and two, it's something I really loved and cared about. So OCD was having a field day. It was like, this is the perfect place for me to just like insert myself. So in the beginning, when I. And when I started the company and was, you know, starting the formula and really just in the beginning stages, I was not diagnosed, so I didn't know that I had ocd. And it started with things, opportunities. So I was, you know, trying out for a TV show related to my business. And because I cared about it so much, my thoughts and like, compulsions were really getting to me. Like I would let them do anything, you know, like I can. If I'm gonna touch the top of the staircase five times and like walk up and down five times to get on this show, then I'm gonna do it or like to get this deal, you know. So in the beginning, I really just let it totally consume. And when you think about it from an entrepreneurial standpoint, the time that I spent doing those things, I totally could have been actually, you know, progressing more. So that was hard to see. But then it came down to the actual. My product is, you know, it is a clean mascara that goes on your eyes. So the what if intrusive thoughts, real, really, like, and they still, you know, get to me sometimes. Like, what if I, you know, there's something on this brush and someone's going to use it and it's, you know, they're going to die. Like, all these intrusive thoughts. And that one was like, so hard because I was, you know, I was going into this taking a leap of faith and, you know, creating something from scratch that I had never done before. So there was so much room for what if? And yeah, that was probably the scariest part is like my specific product was like going on people's eyes. So again, OCD was. Yeah, right there.

B (12:38)

Yeah, OCD loves to flash lawsuits in front of you or various things like that, doesn't it? People blinded or something like that by. Yeah, it sure loves a worst case scenario in these situations. Absolutely no doubt about it. Yeah. Now you. How about in dancing as OCD played some interference using a football reference, I suppose SOCD run some interference in your dancing life also?

A (13:09)

Yeah, I mean, in my role, you know, as like a pro dancer, there's a lot of interacting with people and with fans and of course my intrusive thoughts will find their way, you know, and especially in a situation where I'm, you know, a representative and I'm trying to, you Know, show what's, you know, the best parts of me and just like, be kind and be inclusive to everyone. So I think that in the communication aspect of it, OCD has definitely found its way to show up. But the positive thing is that in dance itself, in the actual export and performance, it has been like a positive release for me in terms of ocd, because I don't know if it's, you know, my OCD just feels comfortable in it because I know I'm controlling myself. I'm controlling, you know, if I want to do a triple turn, I control that. So, like, there is no external factors. Like, it just has been like a really positive sport for me to get to release. But, yeah, the job itself is definitely got in the way as well.

B (14:19)

So you get treatment. What is it like to look back on your old life pre ERP in comparison to today? I'm sure parts of it are hard to recognize or even. Maybe even sometimes people tell me about mourning, you know, how much time they lost in that situation too. How do you kind of deal with or reconcile those. Those things?

A (14:47)

Yeah, I, you know, I feel that same kind of fear looking back on it, because I recognize the possibility of me never scrolling past the no CD video and never getting the treatment. So there's like a fear of, oh, my gosh, I could have wasted more time. And not wasted, you know, I don't think any time is wasted, but I could have spent more time being, you know, shackled by this disorder. And I am just so grateful that I stopped when I did. I think it was so incredibly hard. And the treatment, oh, my gosh, was, you know, really just an emotional process. But looking back, I'm just. I feel relieved and lucky that I finally, after 24 years, got a hold of it.

B (15:38)

The treatment. Let's talk about that. Because sometimes people are afraid to do erp and I'm assuming there was some fear in you even starting ERP because we're asking you to give up the thing that's the most comfortable thing in the world to you, which are those safety behaviors, those compulsions. What is it like to stick a toe in the water of not doing a compulsion and just feeling the feelings that you have instead of trying to do something to make them go away right away.

A (16:09)

Well, I'm really glad you asked this because I, along with ocd, also have dissociative identity disorder, so coping mechanism for my anxiety. And when my OCD becomes like super overwhelming, I dissociate and just like completely disconnect from reality and I think that that was more prominent before I realized I had ocd. Not feeling anything, getting so overworked up, you know, of all these things, all these thoughts that were ruminating in my head and then just, like, not feeling anything at all. So for the first time, I remember I had my first session, and there was just a bag of. You know, I think it was like cat food on the floor that I didn't get a chance to put away yet. And I just stared at it for, you know, however long that session was and just allowed myself to experience the. The feelings. And I've never felt so much in, you know, the years prior because I just actually let myself feel it, and it just, like, come out. And so it was pretty liberating, as terrifying as it was. You know, I was crying, but it was a liberating feeling that, you know, we get so overworked by OCD that we forget to feel. You know, we don't actually remember what it feels.

B (17:28)

Yeah.

A (17:28)

And. And so, yeah, I'm looking back at it now as liberating and just like a waterfall of emotions.

B (17:38)

Yeah, I like that. Because OCD says we can only feel a very narrow range. We have to feel okay all of the time, which nobody feels okay all of the time. Right. I mean, there's. There's things that happen in our lives that are just difficult, or there's death. There's, you know, my. My car won't start today frustration. There's. Why did I get a flat tire? You know, whatever it might be. And OCD can really send that message out to people like, oh, we shouldn't be feeling this. This is too much. Right. You need to go back to this certain place, and here's the quickest way to do it. Just do this compulsion, and everything will be wonderful and fine, which is a lie because it lasts for about 4 milliseconds. And then you have to start the process over again, Right?

A (18:24)

Yeah, absolutely.

B (18:27)

Now that you face feelings, what's it like to live in a world where you feel things? Which may sound like a weird question to some people, but, I mean, I think you get what I'm saying, right?

A (18:41)

Yeah, I do. Absolutely. And honestly, it's an overwhelming question to really conceptualize. There's still times where I begin to feel, and my OCD will question everything about the feeling. So now that I'm starting to experience, you know, I might feel upset at somebody and the thoughts, you know, come through, and they ask me, you know, like a billion questions. You're going to hurt their feelings. Is this the right thing to do? Do you actually feel upset, or do you just feel, you know, all the questions and doubts in the world? Um, so I'm still getting used to letting myself fully feel without, you know, the questions are always going to be there. It's just about how I kind of navigate them. And that's the whole, you know, experience in my OCD journey and overcoming it. You know, I definitely think it's a. It's a more colorful place, being able to feel now and really just experience that I am a lot more emotional, but in a good way. You know, I cry at, like, funny videos on the Internet, and I cry at happy and sad videos on the Internet. But the difference now is I allow myself to watch those videos. Two years ago, I would have seen a sad video and scrolled away immediately out of fear that that was going to happen to me directly after watching the video. So I get to experience what life is about, which is feeling and emotions, and I don't. I don't stop myself from those opportunities.

B (20:25)

You mentioned a few times, relationship ocd. And that is one of the newer kind of, you know, ways that we were really looking at OCD in terms of subtypes and probably still one of the more difficult ones to describe to folks, because there is just so many ways that it can happen. Right. It could be a partner, it could be parents, it could be a friendship, it could be teammates. It could be all of these things. What were, for you, some of the ways that relationship OCD showed up and how is it different now when there are struggles in relationships now that you've had treatment?

A (21:06)

Yeah, I mean, this is something that I definitely want to talk about, and I don't think I. You know, it's not something I normally would just go out and share with anybody, but it's important because seeing a video about it is what really made me realize that's what I was experiencing. And I think when I really. So I've been with my boyfriend for about five years now, and, you know, about two years into the relationship, I think I was so overcome with the possibility of the relationship ending or all these intrusive thoughts, you know, him dying, the relationship ending. Then the ruminating questions came in. You know, is this right? Am I, you know, is this what I'm supposed to be doing? Is this really, really what I want? All of these emotions? And before I was diagnosed with ocd, that was very real to me because I thought, sure, I wouldn't be thinking this if I didn't feel this way, you know, if I wasn't actually questioning the relationship, I wouldn't be thinking this. And so I actually acted on it and was like, I'm sorry. I'm just having these thoughts that are way too overpowering, and I wouldn't be having them if they didn't mean something. Right. And so about a year later, I started, you know, going through OCD treatment and realizing all of those questions. And it honestly broke my heart that all of those questions just came from my ocd, because, you know, it was. It wasn't just affecting me at that point. It was affecting somebody else. And. And thank God he, you know, knows and is very understanding and we're still together. But I had this, like, awakening, like, OCD attaches to the things you love the most, and the most intrusive thoughts, the most questions came around him. So when I released that and was like, just let yourself feel it. Like, just let yourself love him, but let yourself also, you know, not be sure about the future. And that was the most, like, liberating thing that happened, I think, in the treatment. One of them. There's a bunch of different subcategories, but, yeah, it was definitely. That was the most disguised ocd. The tapping, the numbers, the counting, the just. Right. Those were things I kind of recognized that was totally, totally disguised. It got me.

B (23:40)

Yeah. And I think part of the disguise is the way OCD is portrayed. Right. You don't see people just in their head on tv. You see them tapping, you see them touching things, you see them washing their hands. You don't see a lot of people just doing this.

A (23:55)

Right.

B (23:57)

You know that that's not great television by any means. Right. So no one portrays that. So then people with OCD who haven't really been diagnosed yet and aren't as familiar don't understand that that's part of the condition, and that's the way that it can come about. Right?

A (24:13)

Yeah. Yeah, that's the scariest part, or at least it was for me. And so this is honestly why I came on here today, because these are the silent battles that people with OCD fight. And, you know, I do have a platform that doesn't really talk about ocd, but after finishing the treatment, I felt like, you know, my journey for ocd, I may be an OCD conqueror and I may have graduated, but the journey's not done here. You know, no CD saved, like, my life just from seeing a video. And I just know how important that is to me now to get the word out there whether I have to be the one to share all my intrusive thoughts or not. I'll do it, you know.

B (25:02)

Yeah. And I love that, too, because everybody who does it helps to break down the stigma more and more. Right. I mean, some. Some people may see, oh, here's a successful entrepreneur, and look at her. She's dancing with a pro team. She's doing. She must have everything together, and everything must just be, you know, unicorns and rainbows all the time. And you're like, no, yeah, that's not the case. Yeah.

A (25:28)

Yeah. Not up here. Not up here.

B (25:33)

Yeah. But again, I'm thankful always when anybody takes that step. You know, one of my favorite phrases is you have to be afraid first in order to be brave. And you're showing bravery today, which I really appreciate by coming out and talking to people about what's going on and how your life has been improved because of good treatment for ocd. Right. And if. If that's the message we can continue to get out, that this is a terrible condition but a treatable condition at the same time, then that's what we want to keep doing. So that's really, really awesome.

A (26:12)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm. I'm glad that there's a platform, and I'm really grateful for what you all are doing. And, yeah, I mean, it's treatable, but it's, you know, it's going to be there and it's going to be hard, and it's going to. The fear of overcoming it is just as strong as the fear of it itself. But I don't know, I kind of relate it to my business, because starting something that had never been started before, you know, like, taking that blind leap. I always say, like, my eyes are closed and there's fog in front of me, and I'm just, like, waving my arm in front of the fog to try to figure out what's next. And I think that actually helped me. Going through something as, like, unknown as that also helped me recognize OCD and how beautiful going into the unknown can be, you know, not knowing what's next in your journey. So that's been something I appreciate a lot more after learning more about OCD and how it affects me.

B (27:08)

Be ready now, because people are going to contact you and say, I have ocd, too, and that's going to happen. So that's the cool part of it, is you've now put yourself out there into a community of amazing people who want to connect and share stories and build people up, which is. Which is great.

A (27:28)

I'm ready for the conversation. Yeah, yeah, I'm happy, yeah. Happy to chat with anyone.

B (27:35)

You didn't have to do this today. Right? You said a little bit there about that watching that video, though, and just changed your life. And you want to do that. I sure. Leading up to all of that, though, there were still sometimes even two minutes before you get on this camera. You're thinking, am I really doing this? You know, so how do you. How do you feel now that you've. You've talked about it and, you know, we've. We've been discussing it. What's it like to be open about?

A (28:03)

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question because for so many years of my life, I was. I didn't tell anybody, um, about anything I was experiencing. And I. That actually reminds me of a story when I was. I remember I was sitting in a car and my sister called me. And I remember I couldn't do something. I couldn't get out of the car for like a couple of seconds or else she was going to die in my head. And she asked me why I couldn't get out of the car. I said, I can't tell you, but I just can't. And she said, that's concerning. And from then that point on, I was like, I can't say anything to anybody about this. This has to live inside my brain because it's not normal and I don't. And I'm afraid of it, you know, and if other people hear it, they're going to be afraid of me. Over the last year, my family and friends have really. I've opened up to them a lot more about my OCD and truly what I experience. And it's been a. It's been a liberating experience, especially around people that love you and, you know, care for you and support you. Being able to share what has been going on gives it less power. And so coming on here today was even scary for me because I've never publicly talked about having ocd, and I plan to from today on, but I.

B (29:26)

Welcome to your coming out party.

A (29:30)

I have ocd.

B (29:31)

I forgot the cake. I apologize.

A (29:33)

We're the balloons.

B (29:34)

I'll send one to the house.

A (29:35)

Thank you. That's what it feels like. And it honestly does feel like a celebration, you know, getting to this point of being able to talk about it, because I know how to, you know, not control it, but I know what it is and it doesn't have so much power over me. So, yeah, coming on today is liberating as well.

B (29:56)

I love what you just said there that the goal of OCD therapy, which I think at times is also frustrating for people at first, is many people come in going, I want these thoughts to go away. I never want to have them again. I want to be in total control of this. And when I say to people, that's not our goal. Our goal is you're going to learn to live with this. Because as of yet, we haven't figured out how to have people stop having thoughts. No one has actually gotten to the point where we can just say, stop it, and you'll be like, oh, okay, there we go. I'll never think that again. Was that hard at first to kind of wrap your mind around this idea that your goal isn't to make this go away, it is to learn to live with us?

A (30:38)

Yeah, it was. Honestly, I would be lying if I wasn't bummed out that I couldn't just, you know, wake up and do this checklist. And it was going to be gone forever. It was a bummer. And there are some moments where I'm like, man, you know, it just. For lack of better terms, it just sucks sometimes. And, yeah, that's. But going through the process, going through, you know, the exposure, therapy, realizing. Starting to see the actual progress. And then I remember one day looking back at the beginning of my treatment, and suddenly I. The first thing that went away was, like, touching. Touching it for outcomes. That was the first thing that I realized I hadn't done in, like, weeks. And so when I looked at that, and I remember all the times that those things. Thoughts came up and I just let them pass, and I just didn't. I just didn't act on it. That's when I was like, okay, this is worth it. I'm glad I'm here. I'm glad I stuck through. I never wanted to show up in the beginning, if I'm being totally honest, but I'm so grateful that I did. So grateful.

B (31:51)

Yeah. And. And sometimes people are what I call like a 51. 49. 49 of me wants to get better, but 51% of me wants to stay the same. And sometimes it's just literally a 2% adjustment just to move that. And that's what you need. As long as there's a little bit more of you pushing to get better than there is to not, you can still come to treatment. Even though 49% of you does not want you to, as long as 51% of you does. You. You're. You're going to be able to make some of the moves that you want to make.

A (32:18)

Yeah. And it turns into a snowball effect. I think I might have, you know, been that percentage when I started because, as I mentioned earlier, my magical thinking, you know, thought that my OCD was my superpower. So there was a huge part of me that was afraid to let it go and see what would happen if I did. But once I started to see the progress, I think the percentage switched over the meter, and then it just snowballed. And I was, you know, ready to tackle it and show up to these, you know, treatments and sessions, ready to let it go. And I was, you know, actively talking about it more in my outside life. And it really did just snowball to go from the first session of me just crying for, you know, 45 minutes to an hour straight to the last session of just talking about life and saying, you know, I'm glad we did this, and looking back on all the things and not having any, you know, things to work through. So. Yeah.

B (33:19)

So you can be confident now that your sister is alive, not because of how you got out of the car, is what you're telling us. And hi to your sister, by the way. So. Hello. Yeah. But.

A (33:31)

Yeah, isn't it.

B (33:33)

I. Funny is a weird word for it, this, but isn't it kind of funny to look back and think that you used to think that, boy, if I get out of this car the wrong way, my sister won't be alive by the end of the day. I mean, isn't there just. It's probably hard to, some ways put yourself back into that mindset again. In some ways, right?

A (33:50)

It is, yeah. I mean, it's really overwhelming. And I think part of me.

B (33:56)

The.

A (33:59)

Part of me that, you know, talked myself through when I. I think my dad caught onto it, and he was the one that was like, I promise you, if you don't do it, you know, it's not going to affect. And he was trying to explain it to me, but I still. We didn't know that it was OCD at that point. We just thought. My brain just thought that way. But, yeah, I do feel bad for that version of myself because she really, really, really believed it. And that was like, the end all, be all. That was it. So I was saving lives left and right, according to myself.

B (34:33)

Yeah. I've even met with people with OCD who are still kind of in it, who become frustrated with everyone else that they're not happy that they've done all this work to save everybody's life. Like, aren't you thrilled that I didn't get out of the car. You're only alive because I got out of the car the right way and not the wrong way.

A (34:50)

Yes, that is. I mean, I get it. That's why I'm, like, smiling, because I. I get that. But, yeah, it's such a. It's. The brain is so intricate, and it really knows how to play tricks on you. But I think since it played tricks on me negatively, now I'm learning how to play tricks on me. Optimistic. In an optimistic way. And, you know, really focus on the positives and change my mindset. And so even aside from ocd, I think the, you know, sessions that I've done have helped my mindset as a whole picture in my life.

B (35:26)

That. That's great too, because, yeah, we can work on other things too. We don't just work on ocd, obviously. There's other things that are going on in people's lives that we can help them with too. So that's wonderful.

A (35:36)

Yeah. Yeah. I did a PTSD treatment as well with no cd.

B (35:40)

Oh, great.

A (35:41)

Yes.

B (35:42)

How did that go?

A (35:44)

Yeah, that was. It was definitely eye opening. I realized that when you go through something traumatic, you're OCD again, finds a way to tell you, if you follow me and you listen to me, it's not gonna happen again, you know, so they went hand in hand, and I didn't realize how much trauma was. The traumas that I went through were really, like, still with me. I just kind of pushed them down and suppressed them and suppressed them. So when they came out and we started doing the treatment and I realized how much they affected me, I was kind of shocked, honestly. So, yeah, that was a shocking realization. But again, something that OCD connected right onto, and I'm glad that I am on the other side of it.

B (36:33)

I will always say that OCD is so opportunistic if it thinks that it can convince you somehow that doing a compulsion will prevent something from happening, even if it's been a traumatic experience. Be like, oh, you know, if that happened once, it could happen again. But I've got the solution to make sure it never does. Just do these compulsions and you'll be safe. And you're like, oh, yeah, sure, that sounds great. I'd never like to go through that again. Right. And so you can see why the buy in happens so much for people who've been through a really difficult situation. When OCD jumps onto the bandwagon.

A (37:04)

Yeah. I mean, people. It strikes when people are at their lowest and they're the most Vulnerable. And I think that happens a lot in life. And it's unfortunate that, you know, when we do feel the most unsafe, we're willing to take anything, any help. And even if our brain is positioning it and disguising it, it's very great at disguising. I will say.

B (37:29)

Yeah, there's people watching this right now who are at that 5149. Let's go back to that. And 51 are still iffy about treatment. What do you think you could offer to them that might help? Switch that 2% to take the risk.

A (37:46)

Yeah, I. I am standing here as someone who doesn't abide to my OCD anymore, and it has not changed my life negatively in any way. I'm still doing the things that I accomplished despite of OCD that my OCD once told me were its accomplishments and not my own. And so the little teeter, you know, taking that leap, it. You know, you feel butterflies in your stomach, but I just pictured it as really like squeezing onto sand. You know, when you're squeezing onto it and it's just mushing through your hands, just relax. Just let it go. You're actually hurting yourself more by holding onto the grips. The sooner that you start now as well, the more life that you get to enjoy feeling things and experiencing them without as much fear. And I'm grateful for every day that I got back. It feels like if I waited, if I never. If I let my brain tell me, you know, that 51 won and I'm not showing up to my session again, and I'm gonna ghost. No, see, the. I wouldn't be here today in this position. And who knows how long it would have taken me to get that time back.

B (39:02)

So, yeah, I like your grip, too, because I go back to what you said your first memories were gripping. The handrail grip has played a role in your life in some way. Right. And how you've thought about the world and what you've really gripped onto and now just being able to let things go, I think is kind of your transformation of if you've. You've decided to let certain things go and now really live your life without holding on to things that were holding you back.

A (39:32)

Yeah. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And I'm glad you brought that up because that is my youngest OCD memory. So that is nice for me to, you know, full circle to think about how I spent my whole life squeezing onto the unknown and squeezing onto. Trying to control it. And it's going to happen either way. You know, how I See, it now is I'm going to get from this point in my life to this point in my life regardless. Either way, I have a choice to get there in a relaxed, positive, and optimistic way, or I have a choice to get there in a terrified, anxious, and, you know, just controlled way that is not fun to experience. So realizing that I have a choice, oh, my gosh, I could experience life. I'm going to get there either way. Why not choose the route where I can just enjoy the feelings, enjoy the ups and downs, enjoy crying when I'm sad, and enjoy, you know, doubting, but also experiencing just as. As the brain does.

B (40:35)

I'd also like to choose the. The enjoyable route as well, if I could with. That sounds much, much more pleasant, right? Than the other route. Paige, where can people find you and all of your wonderful work and products and everything like that? Where. Where should they go?

A (40:53)

So you can go to @paigediangelo on Instagram, which is P A I G E D E A N G E L O. And it's the same on TikTok, paige.d'. Angelo. And on there, you can find, you know, all of my work. My company is Air Cosmetics, and you'll see all the, you know, behind the scenes of just my life with OCD now on there. So feel free to reach out. I'm always happy to chat and talk a little bit more about this.

B (41:23)

Awesome. Well, Paige, it's been a joy to speak to you today. Thank you so much for being very open about your story and really, hopefully inspiring people to see that there's a life with OCD that you can have. And, and, and I love your idea of when you let go of gripping onto it, you can still have the life that you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live and do very well with it.

A (41:49)

Well, thank you for having me. I'm happy that it feels like an accomplishment in itself, you know, being able to talk about it from what it seems like the other side. So thanks for doing this. Thanks for the amazing, you know, platform that you help create. Great. And, yeah, happy to be here.

B (42:07)

Awesome. Well, best of luck and go team. Hopefully you guys maybe look at a big game again this year, so we'll see what happens. That would be awesome.

A (42:17)

Yes. Thank you so much.

B (42:20)

Awesome. Well, thank you and everyone, thank you for watching another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. Paige d' Angelo was here today. We've got more guests coming, and if you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions, Check us out@nocd.com. that's nocd.com. and remember, you can live the life that you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live. Until next time, be nicer to yourself than your OCD is. We'll see you later.