Inside Howie Mandel’s OCD: The Part of His Life Few See

Summary

Podcast Summary: Get to Know OCD

Episode Title: Inside Howie Mandel’s OCD: The Part of His Life Few See
Host: Dr. Patrick McGrath (NOCD Chief Clinical Officer)
Guest: Howie Mandel
Date: December 8, 2025

---

Overview

This episode provides a candid, in-depth look at Howie Mandel’s personal journey with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Hosted by Dr. Patrick McGrath, the conversation explores the complexities, misconceptions, emotional toll, and the often unseen aspects of living with OCD. Mandel offers vulnerable reflections on his life, symptoms, misdiagnoses, family dynamics, and recovery path, emphasizing the importance of advocacy, accurate diagnosis, and accessible treatment. Throughout, the tone is open, at times humorous, yet always earnest.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Howie Mandel’s Personal Experience with OCD

• Loss of Mental Control & Debilitation

  • Howie describes OCD as the “inability to control your mind” and equates the intrusive thoughts to scenes scarier than any horror movie (00:05; 20:55).
  • Repeatedly mentions the paralyzing fear and rituals, impacting daily life and causing him to miss out on normal experiences (19:08).

• Diagnosis: A Moment of Relief

  • Howie recalls being diagnosed in his mid-40s as a pivotal moment, feeling a "huge weight lifted off my shoulder...understanding that, oh, this is a thing" (08:08).
  • Emphasizes misdiagnosis: "Most people who have it don't understand they have it. Most people who have it and go for help are misdiagnosed." (08:44)

• The Impact of Public Misunderstanding

  • Speaks to the misuse of the term OCD (e.g., “I’m a neat freak, too, I have a little bit of OCD”), likening it to saying “I got just a touch of the plague” (13:08).
  • Expresses frustration over his mental health being treated as entertainment on AGT with a hypnotist experience, feeling it was used without understanding the real-life impact (14:54–17:51).

2. Advocacy, Accessibility & NOCD’s Role

• Value of Advocacy

  • Howie receives daily DMs from people seeking help or thanking NOCD for changing their lives. He finds this outreach the most satisfying aspect of his public work (04:01).
  • Proud to be a spokesperson and advocate for NOCD, finding the work deeply fulfilling and life-changing for others.

• The Power & Reach of NOCD

  • Applauds the increased insurance coverage and accessibility for remote treatment, emphasizing, “you have access to an OCD specialist...through your mobile phone” (09:56).
  • Advises listeners: “First plan of attack is find out what it is you’re attacking. And if it’s OCD...NOCD has a tried and proven therapeutic method” (10:15).
  • Acknowledges that there’s no “cure,” but treatment and management can be life-changing (10:35).

3. The Nature of OCD: Misconceptions and the Reality

• Misconceptions and Stigma

  • OCD is "not just about cleaning and organization," but about "intrusive, persistent, and really sticky feelings and thoughts" that can attach to any topic (01:06).
  • The public's misunderstanding leads to sufferers feeling isolated and misunderstood.

• Examples of Intrusive Thoughts

  • Vividly describes common OCD fears—e.g., the compulsion to push someone in front of a train; the panic of not being able to prevent catastrophic, illogical thoughts (21:41).
  • Dr. McGrath and Howie emphasize that the difference between having odd thoughts and OCD is the persistence, intensity, and distress these thoughts cause (20:58; 21:26).

4. Family, Childhood, and Generational Patterns

• Family Impact & Genetics

  • Howie’s daughter Jacqueline also struggles with OCD, and he expresses guilt and wonders about genetic roots: “So that's the gift I gave my firstborn…she’s my hero” (35:36).
  • Discusses diathesis-stress model (genetic predisposition + life stressors) with Dr. McGrath (36:10).

• Growing Up in an “OCD” Household

  • Childhood home heavily sanitized—furniture wrapped in plastic, disinfecting after visitors—a reflection of generational fears (29:49–31:18).
  • Howie’s early obsessive tendencies likely shaped by his mother: “I feel like I was hermetically sealed for the first five years of my life” (30:57).

• Real-life Example: Compulsive Behavior Affecting Parenting

  • Recounts making his 10-year-old daughter and himself fly to Australia in masks and gloves, years before COVID, due to contamination fears (25:41–29:18).
  • Guilt over making family members anxious and his child “not live a normal life.”

5. Substance Use & Coping Mechanisms

• Pandemic Stress

  • Describes the COVID-19 pandemic’s disproportionate impact, leading to near-complete social withdrawal and escalating unhealthy coping—“I started taking gummies...the goal was not to ease my mind, was to blackout” (33:42–34:42).
  • With support from his wife, ceased substance use: “So it’s been about two years since I’ve even had a beer” (35:04).

• Support System as Lifeline

  • Credits his wife Terry for demanding he seek help, providing tough love that started his recovery journey (24:25).

6. Exposure Therapy and the Path to Recovery

• Therapeutic Methods

  • Dr. McGrath discusses exposure therapy—gradual, guided exposure to feared stimuli—as the gold standard for OCD treatment (16:53; 23:02).
  • Mandel affirms: "I'm forced to do things that are, for the most part, uncomfortable. But I understand...It's hard to emerge from a hole that you dig in your...It's like you want to dip your toe into the water. It's cold water." (44:11)

• Coping & Acceptance

  • Both Howie and Dr. McGrath stress that learning “you don’t have to trust everything your brain tells you” is critical (41:11).
  • Howie underscores: “Thinking is not helpful…let’s now cope with the result of whatever that is instead of going down this rabbit hole of thought, which is not real” (41:45).

7. Emotional Vulnerability & Humor as a Shield

• Humor as a Coping Mechanism

  • Howie often uses humor to deal with pain: "The more I hurt, the more scared I am…the more I try to make jokes just to try to create some lightness for myself” (14:46).
  • Notes how people sometimes misinterpret his levity: "It's not a joke” (14:54).

• Memorable, Honest Admissions

  • On intrusive thoughts: “I’ve never seen a horror movie scarier than the stuff that goes through my mind” (00:10; 20:55).
  • On the effect of OCD: “There’s no such thing as a touch. It’s not like a light cold. It is debilitating. It is a monster” (13:08).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

Howie Mandel:

• “I’ve never seen a horror movie scarier than the stuff that goes through my mind.” (00:10, 20:55)
• "Most people who have it don't understand they have it...most people...are misdiagnosed." (08:44)
• “That’s like saying I got just a touch of the plague.” (13:08)
• “I feel like I was hermetically sealed for the first five years of my life.” (30:57)
• "The goal was not to ease my mind, was to blackout." (34:42)
• “There’s no such thing as a touch [of OCD]. It is debilitating. It is a monster.” (13:08)
• "It's hard to imagine that anybody else shares your experience...that you could even articulate to somebody. Here’s what it is. What should I do?" (07:48)
• “I’m forced to do things that are, for the most part, uncomfortable. But I understand…” (44:11)
• “Thinking is not helpful…Let’s now cope with the result of whatever that is instead of going down this rabbit hole of thought, which is not real.” (41:45)
• On advocacy: “This is one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done in my life, because anything...I'm just telling you, this works. This is the answer.” (12:14)

Dr. Patrick McGrath:

• “You don’t have to trust everything your brain tells you. And OCD wants you to believe that everything your brain tells you is true.” (41:11)
• "One of my favorite days of doing therapy, I spent three hours a foot from a train track…telling [a patient] 'push me into every train that comes by.' That’s exposure therapy." (23:02)
• “OCD is one of the top 10 most disabling disorders you could potentially have...” (18:05)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Howie’s initial thoughts and the impact of OCD: 00:00 – 03:09
• NOCD commercial and advocacy: 03:09 – 05:46
• Howie’s diagnosis and relief: 07:48 – 08:53
• Misdiagnosis and access to care: 08:53 – 10:35
• COVID and OCD stress escalation: 10:35 – 12:14; 33:39 – 35:07
• Misconceptions about OCD: 13:08 – 14:54
• AGT hypnotist incident & 'mental health as entertainment': 14:54 – 17:51
• Intrusive thoughts, violence, and fears: 21:26 – 23:46
• Exposure therapy explained: 23:02; 41:45
• Family support and genetics: 24:25 – 25:47; 35:36 – 36:39
• Parenting with OCD / The Australia trip story: 25:41 – 29:18
• Childhood and generational OCD: 29:49 – 33:18
• Howie and Dr. McGrath on reality of OCD thoughts: 39:47 – 41:07
• Encouragement for those struggling & closing remarks: 45:19 – 46:31

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• OCD is far more than an organizational quirk; it is a complex, debilitating, and misunderstood mental illness that can hijack daily life.
• Diagnosis and specialized care are critical—misunderstanding and misdiagnosis are rampant.
• Exposure and response prevention therapy, while challenging, is highly effective.
• Support—family, professional, and community—makes a profound difference.
• There is no quick cure, but with help (like through NOCD), sufferers can regain control and live fulfilling lives.

---

Conclusion

This episode strips away the stereotypes and misconceptions about OCD through the deeply personal and unfiltered lens of Howie Mandel, guided by Dr. McGrath’s clinical knowledge. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and gravitas, it offers insight, hope, and practical encouragement for anyone affected by OCD or supporting someone who is.

For resources and help, listeners are directed to nocd.com.

Transcript

[Howie Mandel]

As somebody who suffers with ocd, it is the.

Inability to control your mind.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

And those OCD suggestions can be dark.

[Howie Mandel]

I've never seen a horror movie scarier than the stuff that goes through my mind. I once got really mad on agt. I was hypnotized. I got into an incredibly relaxed state and he asked me to shake hands with everybody and I did. And then he snapped me out of it. And then when I realized what I had done, I. I got terrified. I got really upset. I also felt like, you know, my personal mental health issue is really not entertainment. I'll never forget when I first got diagnosed in my mid-40s, there was such a huge weight lifted off my shoulder and in this battle that I was fighting alone, understanding that, oh, this is a thing. Not only is this a thing, this is an incredibly prevalent thing. This is an incredibly misunderstood thing. Foreign.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

You've probably heard of ocd, but you.

[NOCD Licensed Clinical Psychologist]

Don'T know that OCD isn't really just about cleaning and organization. It's actually debilitating. It's a condition that causes intrusive, persistent and really sticky feelings and thoughts that can seize on any topic from romantic relationships to illness to spirituality and really anything that matters to you. This can really cause significant anxiety and guilt and shame and discomfort and can make it hard to function in day to day life. If this sounds familiar, know that you're not alone. In fact, 1 in 40 people in the US suffer from obsessive Compulsive Disorder, but help is available. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist with 25 years of OCD treatment experience. So I know that these scary symptoms can be overwhelming, but I also know that they can be managed with the right type of treatment. I lead a team of top tier clinical experts at NOCD who are trained in the effective treatment for Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. NOCD is an online platform offering specialized, accessible and convenient OCD treatment. My team and I have helped people take back their lives from OCD through evidence based therapies that are covered by insurance. To learn more about OCD and to start effective treatment, head to nocd.com that's no c d dot com. You deserve to live the life you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live. And don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel so you can stay up to date on our latest podcasts and webinars. Now, onto today's episode.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Hi everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the chief clinical officer for NOCD here in the Howie Mandel studio.

[NOCD Licensed Clinical Psychologist]

Hi, Howie.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

How are you today?

[Howie Mandel]

I'm actually doing okay. I'm doing okay. And that's really good.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

You're good with that?

[Howie Mandel]

I'm good with doing okay, yeah. Because it could be worse. It has been worse, you know, but the struggle's worth it and I'm content.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Awesome. The first thing I wanted to talk about today was the commercial, the NOCD commercial that has been out there and the advocacy for OCD that you've done and how recognizable OCD is becoming to people. So wonder what your thoughts are about it.

[Howie Mandel]

Well, my thoughts are.

We were talking before we went on the air and I was saying that out of everything that I do and I think I'm fairly visible, I get the biggest satisfaction and most outreach. I showed you my DMs on my Instagram and you know, I don't really watch television, so too much and I'm really busy, so I didn't realize, I don't know how frequently that commercial is played or even.

How much it's seen on social media or wherever it's seen. I don't think a day goes by when I don't get a couple of DMs referring to that commercial and either mostly saying tell me more or telling me how wonderful NOCD has been for their life or it has been the answer that they have been looking for forever. So you don't get, you get people saying, I saw you on tv, it was funny, or I saw you in a commercial and that was good. But no cd more than anything, thing, because I think it's one of the biggest.

Underserved issues in our world today. And underserved, misunderstood and incredibly important and paramount for it to be understood and taken care of. And we don't, we don't. As a society, I don't think we still have the capacity to understand how important mental health is. And I believe that mental health outweighs even physical health because I believe that we can somewhat control our physical health and well being with healthy mental capabilities. And I believe that people who are under incredible duress, stress and.

You know, mental turmoil will and do become physically ill.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right. And we've even seen, there's studies been being done now with insurance companies where people who are getting their mental health addressed are actually going to doctors less for physical things because let's say it was health anxiety and they would run to the doctor right away to have something checked. And once they know that, wait, maybe this is part of ocd. Maybe this is something that I can manage without needing that assurance that OCD would like you to get that you actually can manage the physical things better through better mental health.

[Howie Mandel]

Well, I didn't make up the saying, but mind over matter, it really makes sense, you know, and the truth is, as somebody who suffers with ocd, it is the.

Inability to control your mind. You lose control of your mind and. Which is, you know, incredibly debilitating when you have any assemblance of intelligence so that you understand and you're aware of these thoughts, these rituals that are making no sense.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right.

[Howie Mandel]

You know, ignorance is bliss. But to know that exactly what's happening and not being able to control it and not being able to move forward and just having your life shut down in those moments of extreme attacks or the darkest, deepest part of what OCD can be to somebody.

Is horrifying. And that's why I'm so excited to even be. Have any association with no cd, because no CD now gives. And I've learned through you and this company how prevalent this is. You know, the truth of the matter is, and I think this goes for anybody suffering any mental health issue, because it's. It's in here, it's in you. It's hard to imagine that anybody else.

Shares your experience. Right. That anybody else even would understand your experience or that you could even articulate to somebody. Here's what it is. What should I do? You know, And I'll never forget when I first got diagnosed in my mid-40s, even.

Being.

Diagnosed and given a title like there was such a huge weight lifted off my shoulder, instead of just being, you know, in this battle that I was fighting alone, understanding that, oh, this is a thing, this is a thing, and there are some answers. And then learning when I partnered with nocd, that not only is this a thing, this is an incredibly prevalent thing, this is an incredibly misunderstood thing. So most people who have it don't understand. They have it. Most people who have it and go for help are misdiagnosed. Many, many times. There are the stats. You know, the stats. I don't know them. Yeah.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

I mean, even our CEO Steven, who had six misdiagnoses before finally getting diagnosed with ocd, okay?

[Howie Mandel]

So. So that. Therein lies my point. So you're misdiagnosed, and then even being diagnosed, not having.

The knowledge or the wherewithal to figure out where do I go and what kind of help should I get? So to platform like nocd, where.

If nothing else, if nothing else, if you think that this might be an issue that you're experiencing or you believe that somebody you love or care for or work with or are aware of might have this issue. Everybody can access it.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah.

[Howie Mandel]

And now as it, as the longer I've been with it, the more your safety net of insurance companies cover, covering it has expanded, expanded, expanded. Because I think people are now learning this is an issue that we should cover and it'll save us money in the long run.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Sure.

[Howie Mandel]

So I don't care where you are, how rural rural you are, you have access to an OCD specialist, a real live in person OCD specialist through your mobile phone. So you can access that and if nothing else, if nothing else.

Be diagnosed. So the first, the first plan of attack is find out what it is you're attacking. And if it is ocd, they NOCD has a tried and proven therapeutic method.

To help you cope. There is not a cure. I always say that to people, you know, there's not a cure. It's not like they're gonna hand you a pill and you're never gonna feel this again. You know, I continuously battle, but the battle is worth it. There are ebbs and flows to how my life and maybe it's. I'm not an expert, so I don't know. You're the expert. But sometimes the external.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

World, OCD loves a stressor.

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah. Covid was not fun.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

No.

[Howie Mandel]

For somebody who was, you know, might.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Have been a rough time of your life, I'm thinking, yeah, I thought I.

[Howie Mandel]

Was going to die. I was sure I was going to die. I am actually.

I went a little nuts. We can go into that a little bit. But I. And a lot of people did. And it wasn't just my problem. A lot of people's lives were turned upside down. I've turned my life upside down. When things are going great because of ocd, through no control of my own. But my mind does that to me. But there are answers and there's a lifeline and there's like a life preserver that can be taught tossed to you. And that's why this is something I'm not only spokesperson for, but I'm an advocate of. And I can't tell you how many people you asked about the ad, how many people come up to me not only DMing me on my Instagram, but come up to me every day and say, you have no idea. You know, this saved my life, this saved my kid's life. Or thank you. You know, I saw the commercial and my daughter is now Excelling or I've seen. And there's, you know, I'm just goofy Howie, who is a silly comedian who hosts some game shows and done some other goofy things. And this is one of the most fulfilling things I've ever done in my life, because anything. And I'm not doing anything. I'm just telling you, this works. This is the answer. Or this can be the answer, because maybe the answer is not ocd, but, you know, I would, at least if you think you have that. And that's the bigger problem. The bigger problem is, and we've talked about this endlessly, I don't think it's so prevalent yet. Not known. You know, people use ocd, I use the term persnickety or neat. Oh, I'm a neat freak, too. I've got a little bit of that ocd. That's like saying I got just a touch of the plague. Yeah, you know, I got a little bit of that plague, too.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

You.

[Howie Mandel]

I know what it's like. No, you don't. If you have ocd, you don't get a little bit of it. There's no such thing as a touch. It's not like a light cold. It is debilitating. It is a monster. And if you. So that. The fact that people don't understand it means not only do they not understand it within themselves, but they're not going to understand it or be able to identify it when it's happening around them. And that was my whole life. My whole life. I don't have a GED because of it. Because.

The need to.

Act on rituals, the need to not be able to hear through the dark noise and repetitive thoughts that were in my head didn't allow me to focus in school. So I don't. I don't have a ged. I didn't have all my friends. You know, my best friend who runs one of the biggest production companies here, went to law school and like anybody I knew, was thriving. I was 17 and, you know, thrown out of not only school, but my whole. Any possibility for what I didn't have much of one of a social circle. It was. It's. It's hard. You know, I tell. Because I'm a comedian, it's sometimes difficult because I think people misinterpret the lightness that I bring to. You know, my sense of humor is my panacea. Also, the more I hurt, the more scared I am, the more fearful, the more the tougher things are. The more I try to make jokes just to.

Try to see the Light to try to create some lightness for myself. But other people interpret that like it is a joke, but it's not a joke.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right.

[Howie Mandel]

You know, and I once got really mad on AGT because they brought a hypnotist on. I didn't think that was funny. I didn't think that was good. I didn't think that was amazing. And I got really upset with the production, too.

I was hypnotized, right? And.

He hypnotized me. And then.

He said he was a hypnotist. They asked for volunteers from the judge's desk. He asked me to come up. I'll always, you know, I would never say no to somebody. I want them to win. I want everybody to leave in a better place than they come. And, you know, I thought, oh, I've been to a hypnotist show. I've never been hypnotized. But, you know, maybe he's gonna. I'll turn into a chicken, or I'll. He'll say, oh, you're in a bank robbery now. I did not know and didn't ask ahead of time what he would do. For those that haven't been hypnotized or don't believe in hypnosis, I will tell you that I think if you really don't want to be hypnotized, you wouldn't be hypnotized. I was okay with being hypnotized. I thought, he'll make me do, you know, bizarre things. So I was okay and open to it, and I think I let him hypnotize me. And he did hypnotize me. And here's how I describe it to people so that they know it's real. It's kind of like, you know, maybe this is a bad analogy. You can answer to this. But if you went to a party and had a couple of glasses of wine, and you'd be okay with some stuff you wouldn't be okay with if you didn't have.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Your inhibitions are down, right?

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah. And you're in a very relaxed state. It feels okay. So I got into an incredibly relaxed state, and he asked me to shake hands with everybody, and I did. And then when he snapped me out of it, I got triggered to go, look what I did, like in the. I don't shake hands now, and I do the fist bump, because I know that I could shake your hands. And probably. If we were doing exposure therapy right now, you'd probably make me shake your hand.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

I'd ask you. I wouldn't make you. But I.

[Howie Mandel]

But that's part of the therapy. You would do that, and then you would be here to talk me through the other side so that I don't get triggered into this dark wormhole that could send me into the bathroom to scald my hand for the next three hours and not be able to do anything else.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right. That's the response. Prevention.

[Howie Mandel]

The truth of the matter is that he did that, and then he snapped me out of it. And then when I realized what I had done, and now I'm sitting on the set, I couldn't go wash my hands, and I had shaken. I touched everybody, and everybody thought it was funny, and it was a great thing. And I was like. I got terrified. I got really upset.

I also felt like, you know, my personal mental health issue is really not entertainment. You know, I just thought I was kind of irresponsible. But.

You know, they did it. And he. Maybe it's not his fault. The production company should have been more cognizant of what mental health is. But that also speaks to what we just spoke about. This is everybody has a little ocd.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

You know, and at some point, the World Health organization has said OCD is one of the top 10 most disabling disorders you could potentially have because of the fact that you logically know versus what you emotionally know. And you can logically say what you just said, I'll likely be fine. But that emotional fire, that fight, flight, or freeze response that kicks off in your brain is overwhelming.

[Howie Mandel]

That's what makes it more painful. The saying ignorance is bliss rings true. If you don't know something, you're blissful. But if you do know, if you say, I'm having.

A weird, impossible thought or need to do something, and I understand that, I don't need to do this, and then you can't stop yourself from doing it or thinking it, and you go.

That'S a ridiculous thought. I don't need to. It's ridiculous. I've already washed my hands.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah.

[Howie Mandel]

I've had soap. I sang Happy Birthday twice. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah.

[Howie Mandel]

And then I go back to the sink and I make the water hotter and I sing Happy Birthday three times. Oh, I'm good. I'm good. That's ridiculous. I went back twice. I'm back a third time, and I can't stop myself. And I miss an appointment, and I miss something with my family, and I miss a flight. It's not because I'm oblivious. No, it's. And I'm. I'm hyper. Aware. Being hyper aware and not being able to. I've made myself bleed just because I want to. Just, you know, I don't know how to stop these intrusive.

Debilitating, ridiculous needs and thoughts.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah. And.

I think for some people, they'll just look at you and think, well, just stop it. I sometimes use an example when I'm working with an audience that doesn't really get it. I'll start talking about lice, and I'll do that for a minute or two. And then eventually you just see the hands go up and the scratching of the heads and people starting to do this. And I point out to the audience, look at how many of you right now are scratching. You probably don't have lice. I've just talked about it, and that's enough to start to create sensation. So to me, that example just shows the power of the mind and what it can do to the body, to the emotions that you start to feel, things that are.

[Howie Mandel]

It's called the power of suggestion. The point is that if you have no power and your mind is making its own suggestions without your control, that's where it's the suggestions that we can't stop.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

And those OCD suggestions can be dark horror movies.

[Howie Mandel]

I've never seen a horror movie scarier than the stuff that goes through my mind.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah. And that sometimes keeps people away from treatment because they're afraid if I tell somebody else some of these things, they might call the police on me. They might put me in a room and lock the door with a straight jacket on. Just worst case scenarios. I've had people who've told me that they should be on death row because they once thought, I wish that person wasn't alive anymore. And they equate themselves to be a serial killer just for that thought, because that's the emotional reaction.

[Howie Mandel]

But even the way you're describing it, I don't think that anybody who had that thought had that thought. Just that fleeting thought. No, I think that this is where you got to explain it, that they could be standing beside somebody on a subway platform.

[NOCD Licensed Clinical Psychologist]

Right.

[Howie Mandel]

And you're looking at that person and you go, I'm going to. I'm gonna push that person in front of me, that stranger. I'm pushing them on the track. When the train comes, I'm gonna push that. No, that's, that's ridiculous. I'm gonna. No, I swear, when the train comes, I'm gonna. I, I, I feel my whole body tingling. I'm gonna push that. I'm gonna kill that person. I'm gonna kill that person. I can't stop myself from thinking this. I don't know. The train's coming in a minute. I know I'm gonna kill that person. I'm gonna kill that person. I'm gonna kill that person. Yeah, I'm going to kill that person. I can't. This is ridiculous. I'm not a killer. I'm going to kill that person. I'm going to kill that. And that's. That's what happens. And then they go. And then, you know, you know intellectually. And this is probably what a real serial killer goes through. So I must be that, right? I have to be that. Because they couldn't control themselves. So why does somebody go and kill 29 people? This is what goes on. This is what's going on in my head. And I can't stop it. And I know it's wrong and I know I would never. I've never done anything like that before. And there's no reason for me to do it. But my body's taking over. My mind is taking over now. I'm going to kill somebody. And it's the fear of that's what you're going to do. You don't know that you won't do it right. You can't be sure you won't do it right. And that, that drives people somewhat insane.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

One of my favorite days of doing therapy, I spent three hours afoot from a train track with someone behind me, having them think about with their hands on my shoulder, my hands behind my back, telling them push me into every train that comes by.

[Howie Mandel]

I wow. Yeah.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

One of the best days of therapy I ever did. I loved it. I had so much fun. Loved it. I did. Because I could experience them start to challenge that. And here was a person who had stopped living their life for six months, wouldn't even go places because they didn't even want to go near a train track because what if they did that? And the next day they called their school and they re enrolled in classes and they went back to school the following three weeks later when the semester started again. That's what I love about doing the work.

[Howie Mandel]

That's exposure therapy for those that don't know. Yes.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Now we didn't. I don't force anybody to do anything. I would never make you shake my hand.

[Howie Mandel]

Thank you. Look at this.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Someone's calling.

[Howie Mandel]

It's my wife.

I'm gonna tell her that I'm. I'm in a therapy session right now.

Thank you. She goes, I won't disturb you. You need it. That's what she said. She knows me. She's the one that made me. You know, I was not. You were talking about that. It's my wife, Terry, I've been married to for 46 years now.

I was at adamant about not.

Seeking help, and she said, if you don't go get an answer right now. There was no. No CD at the time. If you don't get an answer right now, I'm going to take the kids and I'm going to leave. So her ultimatum, her, you know, tough love is the reason that I found my pathway to no cd.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

That's awesome.

[Howie Mandel]

So that's who just called.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Love to her.

[Howie Mandel]

Yes. Do you want me to text her right now? Love to you.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

The doctor.

[Howie Mandel]

Love to you from. No.

You don't cap them. No caps. Okay.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

It's like Les Nessman reading the banner WK.

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah, but you know what she said Love to you from Nakda. That's what she's saying right now.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Well, that's lovely.

[Howie Mandel]

Love how he says, nocta loves me.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

We have some pictures of you, I believe, from various points of your life that I think we're gonna pull up and take a look at and maybe talk about that phase of your life and what OCD was doing there.

[Howie Mandel]

So this is my daughter, Riley. This is my youngest daughter, now has her own child.

But.

We were taking a family trip to Australia.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Okay.

[Howie Mandel]

And she ended up on the day that we were taking the flight, and there was like. It was extended family, so there was probably about 25 of us going to Australia. On the day that she.

That we were leaving, she came down with a bit of a flu and a cold. And our extended family is my wife's family. So it was her parents, her sister, her brother, their kids and everything. So they weren't going to cancel because she had a. So she asked me to stay and take care of Riley, and I was going to meet them in three or four days. So, you know, leave the obsessive compulsive guy with the sick child. You have to realize that we lived in a house. I've talked about this many, many times, but we lived in a house where I built. I told the contractor it was a guest house. It wasn't a guest house. It was a house with. God forbid one of my children should cough. I moved into that house, but here I am. It's my child. And I gotta tell you that I spent. You can't tell, but my. My head and my face are raw because any minute That I wasn't with her. I was standing in a scalding shower. This is right before I got diagnosed.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Okay.

[Howie Mandel]

So. And she was actually better. And this is a 13 hour flight. I wore a mask. She wore a mask. This has nothing to do with COVID No. This is. She looks about 10 there. She's 33. This is 23. Three years ago. Maybe it was a. Right before I got diagnosed. This was the. Because I think my wife was angry at me for making my 10 year old daughter fly for 13 hours with a mask on. There was no reason for her to be wearing a mask. No reason for me to be wearing a mask. She had a little cold. I stayed for three days. It cleared up. And then I put her on a 13 hour flight with me. I was wearing the mask. I slept with the mask in the house. I wore rubber gloves in the house.

I'm trying to see what is on the. What's on the armrest there. Can you see what's on the armrest?

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

It looks like one of those tissue packets.

[Howie Mandel]

Tissue packets. I was wiping everything. Everything. It's like 13 hours of cleaning and rubbing and doing everything. She says. You're making the kids nuts.

I think I made her. Not even. She wasn't allowed to face me. I gave her pillow so she would turn the other way. I mean, it's horrible. I feel this kind of stuff makes me feel guilty and people made fun of me. But it was. I was. I don't know, I was living in. I would imagine the way people felt when they lived during the plague.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Sure.

[Howie Mandel]

You know. And this is with my own child who had a cold two days before. This is a 13 hour flight. She's not. There's nothing to point out. I'm not pointing anything out. I think somebody took a picture of us. I don't know.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Or you're directing her to keep facing that way.

[Howie Mandel]

Keep facing that way and you can talk to me facing that way. Don't look at me. Wear the mask. Look, tissues are out. I'm sure there's some antibacterial things stuffed in my seat. I've had like 38 showers. Probably that day. It's horrible. Not a fun. Traveling should be fun. Does that kid look like she's having fun?

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

No.

[Howie Mandel]

Look at her eyes. It's just misery. I feel bad. I feel bad. She's not raising her child the way I am. She knew and that's it. And I think if anything that came out of it. Her kid's allowed to pick things up from the ground. And live a normal life, which I understand I would still have a problem with that. That's me.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Let's take a look at another one and see what else we have.

[Howie Mandel]

That's me as a child. Look at. See, I think it was informed. Not that, you know, I talked about what triggered my ocd, but my. I don't know that my mother had ocd. I think her mother.

That may have informed what I got afraid of. Everything was always wrapped in plastic. Can you see the chair is always wrapped in plastic.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Okay.

[Howie Mandel]

She put plastic. If she put. She put plastic down, then she put me down. Or if somebody came in when I was that age and I remember this, if they would touch the side of the. I remember really clearly my crib. If somebody touched the side of the crib, you know, they'd come on and look at the baby.

My mother would keep me away from the side of the crib. They'd leave. And then she. I don't think it was Lysol, but whatever it was, she put a disinfectant. She would rub down the side of the crib so that I wouldn't touch where they touched. I feel like I was hermetically sealed for the first five years of my life.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Travolta Boy in the Bubble.

[Howie Mandel]

Boy in the Bubble, which I saw as a. Wow, that's like seeing a kid go to Disneyland. Why can't I live in a bubble? I saw that movie thinking, this is not terrible. This is. This is my dream.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah. Right, right.

That's interesting.

[Howie Mandel]

I mean, that's not a joke. That's. No, that's really plastic.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Yeah.

[Howie Mandel]

I mean, I don't remember that day, but I remember in the house, her. Everything wrapped in plastic.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Are there still points of view, even today that think not a bad idea? Or are you.

[Howie Mandel]

Well, you know, here's the thing. Here's the thing. And maybe you could correct me if I'm wrong. You know, when you have these.

Thoughts.

Or these images, you can make sense of it.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Sure.

[Howie Mandel]

And that's how your intellect kind of. Otherwise you would just. I don't think the right word is insanity. But I feel like I'm always on. I was always on the brink of insanity. And even if it does make sense, you know, people are out all day sitting on a bus or sitting in a cab or you don't know what they're sitting on, or they've. You know, they put their feet up on the chair. There's always a reason where there could be some real icky stuff around or even what we were just talking about in the subway, I see that this was her first baby, 1955.

You want life to be germ free. At that time, polio was the rage. And I know. And family members had it and got it. And that was before the polio vaccine. So you can see how a young mother in her 20s with her first baby would be scared to kind of let this precious little being touch anything. Yeah.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Going on what you said, sometimes I've said OCD makes the outlandish seem very reasonable.

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right.

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah. Well, OCD.

Is outlandish.

Your intellect takes the outlandish and has to make it reasonable for you to survive. Right. Because as soon as there's no reason for it. That's why.

People who don't get help.

If you can't make it reasonable, then.

People have taken really drastic turns.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Did it ever. As much as you're willing to talk about it, but did it ever get to that point? I mean, people turn to substances. People have suicidal thoughts with ocd, all of that.

[Howie Mandel]

Yes, yes.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Okay.

[Howie Mandel]

Both. The last thing was substances. Even now that I'm taking care of the. I'm. As I talk to you right now, I'm sober. And during.

COVID I was so going down a rabbit hole. Really so much. So hard. So hard. Talk to my. I was getting really good treatment. And then what. What happened was I started taking gummies to get more sleep because at night when there was nothing going on, I would just lay awake and obsess.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Especially for someone so busy as you to have to then go to nothing.

[Howie Mandel]

So that I'm doing nothing. And the news and what was going on. So I started taking gummies, and then I took two gummies, and then I took two gummies and smoked some. And then I took two gummies and smoked some and took a couple of shots of alcohol during the day. And then I just didn't stop until.

What I was going for. The goal was not to ease my mind, was to black out. So I would just drink and smoke and take pot until I couldn't see anymore. My wife found me on the floor and just said, you can't do this anymore. So I've stopped. So it's been about two years since I've even had a beer.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Congrats.

[Howie Mandel]

Yeah, thanks.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

There's one more picture I think we have.

[Howie Mandel]

Okay. That's my lovely daughter Jacqueline, who I do my podcast with.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

She is lovely. I got a chance to meet her. Yes.

[Howie Mandel]

She's a wonderful young lady who also has debilitating OCD Been diagnosed and gets help. And, you know, and I have an incredible amount of guilt. I don't know that much about ocd. Just know how I do it. But is it genetic?

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

There is a genetic component, yes.

[Howie Mandel]

So that's the gift I gave my firstborn. That's my firstborn. And, you know, she struggles, but we. We get through it together, you know, and she has a. It's. It's really tough, you know, and she's the mother of two and a wife and a podcaster, and she was a teacher for 10 years and retired from that. And she's my hero, you know, that kid is amazing.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Here's what we know on the genetic side for you is there's something we call diathesis stress, meaning we have genetic predispositions, but you have to have stressors too. So it's a mix. You may have a high genetic predisposition, but never a stressor to kick it off. You may have a low genetic predisposition, but a huge stressor, and it kicks off, and everybody else is kind of somewhere in the middle. So it's not a 100% on either side.

[Howie Mandel]

I've talked about this before, but also.

It doesn't help. I talked about it. This wouldn't be the first time talked about, but her child is in remission, but he had leukemia, and then he ended up having a bone marrow transplant, but he's still.

Immune compromised. So here we are, us two OCD sufferers, worried about a third party. Who's our little baby, her little baby. We're not allowed to really go anywhere publicly. It's kind of sad because we didn't make it public. She just talked about it recently. But.

People are really mean and really tough. And even on our. On our podcast, sometimes somebody would come in and they'd say they have a little bit of a cold, and they would come in. You know, people show up with a cold. That's normal. She'd be wearing a mask, or she would leave the room, and it became political. And people call her, you know, horrible names and don't know. She's just trying to protect her child. And so.

You know, life's a struggle, I think, for everybody. And I'm so proud of her, and I'm so proud of. She's an amazing, amazing human being.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

As you look at, you know, your daughter, your grandson. Thank you for being open about that. That's gotta be one of the most difficult things in the world for you, knowing how much you feel about contamination and germs and being now Very related and close to and connected to someone who's immunocompromised.

[Howie Mandel]

But you learn things that you never thought. You know, it's the doctors. Like I'm not trying to besmirch any business. But he's not allowed to get soft, soft serve ice cream. Do you know that?

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

No.

[Howie Mandel]

The bacteria that grows on a, in a soft serve is not. If you have no immune system whatsoever, you can't fight that bacteria. Wow. Okay, now I don't want to know that.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right.

[Howie Mandel]

Or he can't, he can't have fountain drinks. Also the bacteria that grows on those fountains.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

We.

[Howie Mandel]

When you're somewhat healthy, you fight. Our bodies are filled with, I think we are bacteria. We are, you know, so. But somebody who's totally compromised can't do that. So he has to drink, you know, his sodas out of bottles. He has to not have soft serve ice cream. You know, we don't stay in hotels when we go with him. Or we have to get something that's on the bottom floor with its own entrance because he can't be around people. So. And two kind of.

OCD people that we are. And that is. And that's one of many triggers. People know me as a germaphobe, but that's not my whole thing. Isn't that. Or is it hers? But this is making. This has made us a little more hypersensitive and hypersensitivity is not incredibly healthy for our ocd. So it's tough.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Has there also ever been an emotional contamination for you? Like if you say someone you didn't like sat in that chair, would you ever feel like you don't want to sit in there because you might take on some of the. Their essence or something like that? Because that's another way that I see contamination happen in people.

[Howie Mandel]

I. That's not my thing.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

That's not.

[Howie Mandel]

No. A lot of really negative, sometimes violent thoughts. But I understand now that that's. And even if I say to you I'm not going to act on it, you know, and I know that and I've never acted on them. It's when you're in the midst of them, it's hard to kind of delineate between these thoughts because.

Everybody'S thoughts, that's how reality happens. It starts with thought. You make that happen. So where is that line dropped between this ridiculous thought you're having? How do you just not turn the wheel?

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right. I joke that if I walk down the stairs with anyone, I'm going to think about pushing them down the stairs. Because I've treated so many people who are afraid of. What if I push you down the stairs? And I've stood on so many stairs with people behind me telling them to push me down the stairs, that I can't do it anymore without having that image or that thought or that urgent.

[Howie Mandel]

You didn't help yourself. You helped a lot of other people. But maybe you screwed yourself.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

I might have, but I like it in the sense that people start to learn. You don't have to trust everything your brain tells you. And OCD wants you to believe that everything your brain tells you is true. And that's one thing that I like about treatment, is you don't have to believe it all to be true.

[Howie Mandel]

I'm an advocate, even though this is not the way my brain overworks.

Not for positive. But I'm the one that says.

Well, Nike has said it, but just do it. I believe that our instinct is wonderful. We should just do things, not push somebody down the stairs. But I think that we all have a tendency, even if you don't have ocd, to overthink. Yeah. Overthinking is a place. It's a. I don't know why. It's kind of this greased wheel in your head that it's really easy to have good thoughts, bad thoughts, overthinking. It's just thinking is not helpful. I don't know that it's helpful. I don't think we should think. I don't think we should. I think we should do. I think we need to do. And that's exposure therapy. Just do it. Don't think about what could happen. Don't. Let's just cope with it, you know, and let's see how. When something happens or when you're exposed to something or when something. I mean, that's basically. I'm not a therapist, but. But let's now cope with the result of whatever that is instead of going down this rabbit hole of thought, which is not real. That's a thought. Only deal with the reality.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

And there are always those. Worst case scenario, what if thoughts. No one's ocd. Thoughts that I've met so far have been. And it's gonna be great.

[Howie Mandel]

That'd be great. Ocd. I've written it. If that was ocd, I want more.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right, right. But I've not seen it.

[Howie Mandel]

That would be mo cd. I need mo cdcd. Not no cd. Not no cd. Give me mo cd.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Before we go, I think about people that I still. When I do webinars or who Write to me, who are still, to this day, post Covid, stuck in their apartment, stuck in their room. And you talked about how rough that was, but you still emerged. What helped you to come back out into the world and to emerge? You're not wearing a mask now. You don't have gloves on.

[Howie Mandel]

No, but I'm forced to. I'm lucky that I am surrounded by people who kind of understand this issue, really legitimately understand this issue and care about me and will help me, help me cope. So I feel like I've got this support system professionally and emotionally. I'm also.

Just by virtue of what I do for a living and how I need to provide and the bills that I have to pay. I'm forced to do things that are, for the most part, uncomfortable. But I understand that it's hard to emerge from a hole that you dig in your. It's kind of like. I think that when people are stuck in their place and they were there for two years, it's like you want to dip your toe into the water. It's cold water. It's hard to jump right in. It really is. You want to get used to it. You want to splash a little bit. I think if you've been locked away in your apartment for two years or you've been working, a lot of people are working remotely. They're not even around people. They're not around. You know, I'm going. As I talk to you, I'm going to New York, to my. I haven't been in New York. My wife hasn't been to New York in about four years, and she was in Covid. She's nervous about being around that many people. You know, she goes. You know, you go on the stage and you stand on the stage, and even if there's a few thousand people there, you're, you know, 50ft from anybody. You're really alone in a room of a few thousand.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Right.

[Howie Mandel]

If I want to go watch you, I got to go stand in that room of a few thousand. I'm not. I don't know if I'm comfortable with that. And that's. She doesn't have ocd. Right? Right. But I'm just saying I'm watching somebody who has a health, sound mind even emerging from whatever change is pivoting. Change is hard for every one of us. So. But I think that if you are suffering out there, the one message I have for anybody, it never hurts to try. No CD is the answer. No CD will give you an answer. What you do with that answer is then next your step. No CD may tell you you don't have ocd. You know, and that's good, too. That's even better. No CD may tell you you have OCD or somebody you love has ocd, and they'll give you an answer for that, too. And it's the most accessible help there is for this incredibly prevalent problem.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Well, thank you for the work you've done with us. We appreciate it and it means so much to us.

[Howie Mandel]

It means more to me than it does to you. I'm telling you, as somebody who suffers each and every day, it means the world to me. So thank you for just existing.

[Dr. Patrick McGrath]

Awesome. And thank all of you for watching the get to Know OCD Podcast. If you need help for OCD or other related conditions, check us [e-mail] that's n o c d.com, and if you're looking to watch more episodes of the get to Know OCD Podcast, you can subscribe to the NOCD YouTube channel. Remember, our goal is this. We want you to live the life you want to live and not the life OCD wants you to live. Thanks for listening.