OCD Made Me Afraid of the People I Love Most

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Get to Know OCD

Episode: OCD Made Me Afraid of the People I Love Most
Host: Dr. Patrick McGrath & NOCD Team
Guest: Jen Wiles
Date: October 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Jen Wiles, a nurse and mother who shares her personal journey with harm OCD—especially how intrusive thoughts made her fear for those she loved most. Through candid conversation with the NOCD team, Jen discusses the stigma, emotional exhaustion, and path toward specialized OCD treatment that helped her reclaim meaningful moments with her family. The episode also highlights practical aspects of treatment, the importance of community, and addresses common misconceptions about OCD.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jen’s OCD Story: How It Began

• First Symptoms & Escalation ([00:00]–[06:56])
  • Jen recalls her OCD intensifying during a period of high stress in her late twenties: finishing nursing school, getting married, and juggling multiple jobs.
  • She experienced a “random thought one night about just some harm,” which rapidly spiraled into panic attacks, insomnia, and overwhelming anxiety—especially concerning harm coming to loved ones.
  • Quote:

    “It centered around harm and someone that was very important to me, a very important family member. And I had no idea what was happening, not a clue. It went into where I couldn't sleep. I was panicking. Every time I close my eyes, you know, that thought would be there and it just continued... It would pick and choose different people that I cared about.” —Jen Wiles [05:08]

  • Hesitance to search for help due to stigma and fear of being misunderstood or judged, especially since her primary care provider was a close friend.

Stigma and Seeking the Right Help

• Barriers to Treatment ([06:56]–[11:25])
  • Initial attempts at managing her OCD through primary care and nonspecific talk therapy, which provided only limited relief.
  • Strong feelings of shame and secrecy because of intrusive thoughts, especially as a healthcare professional and new mother.
  • Importance of Specialized Care:

    “You wouldn't go to a cardiac doctor for GI problems… You need to go to someone who specializes in your brain, which is an organ.” —Jen Wiles [08:37]

  • Stigma associated with psychiatric treatment, particularly in her upbringing and professional life.

OCD During Pregnancy and Motherhood

• Impact of OCD on Parenting ([11:25]–[12:13])
  • Deep anxieties during and after pregnancy, leading to changes in medication against a backdrop of fear for her children’s safety.
  • Quote:

    “Now, looking back, now that I know more about OCD, I know that it attacks what you care about most… my family definitely is what I care about the most in my whole life.” —Jen Wiles [10:37]

Discovery of ERP and NOCD

• Finding Effective Treatment ([12:13]–[13:44])
  • After years of struggle, Jen found NOCD and began Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), which became pivotal in her recovery.
  • Her first honest disclosure to a therapist via Zoom was marked by intense fear (“Is she going to call CPS?”) but also brought enormous relief and validation.
  • Quote:

    "Once I... knew she could help me... it was a big, big weight to lift off. To know that you find somebody that gets you and that understands." —Jen Wiles [13:38]

The Emotional Toll and the Hidden “Sludge”

• Living with OCD & Emotional Isolation ([14:26]–[17:34])
  • Jen describes balancing outward functionality with an internal “sludge” of anxiety, doubt, and shame that others rarely see.
  • Despite being a productive nurse and mother, she often felt emotionally absent, especially with her kids, and regrets lost moments.
  • Quote:

    "I like to call it a sludge... you have this life on the outside, and then you have this dark interior life... Nobody would know that I am anything but functional." —Jen Wiles [15:41]

The Role of ERP, the NOCD App, and Support

• ERP Tools & Community ([19:25]–[24:13])
  • Jen credits her therapist, the ERP process, and the NOCD app’s features (journaling, SOS button, exposures) for day-to-day support.
  • Finds comfort and accountability in support groups, though mostly listens rather than participates directly.
  • Emphasizes the importance of exposure work and tracking small wins as tangible evidence of progress.
  • On the app:

    “If I’m brave, I can look back at my hard days and realize how far I’ve come... The journaling is great, the exposures are wonderful. I love how you can rate your exposures." —Jen Wiles [22:30]

Differences Before and After Treatment

• Life Changes Through ERP ([24:13]–[31:18])
  • Moving from “shoving everything into a Tupperware cabinet” to feeling like she’s actively organizing and working through her challenges.
  • Celebrates small wins, especially moments of presence with her children, as victories against OCD.
  • Recognizes that harm thoughts target the people she loves most, illustrating how OCD distorts what matters most to sufferers.

Openness and Family Advocacy

• Breaking the Stigma for the Next Generation ([32:37]–[37:55])
  • Jen’s motivation to share her story publicly: to help her children and others avoid isolation and shame.
  • Determined to change the familial script of secrecy around mental health, teaching her kids that it’s okay to talk about anxiety and seek help.
  • Quote:

    "My kids will not know that... They will know that mom struggles, but mom does the best she can. They will know that they are so loved, you know, and they are the best things that ever happened to me." —Jen Wiles [33:21]

Major Misconceptions About OCD

• More Than Handwashing ([37:55]–[39:02])
  • Host and Jen both refute the simplistic view of OCD as just handwashing or checking: “The harm and the taboo thoughts of OCD are actually the most common forms.”
  • The “What if?” nature of OCD is emphasized, with hosts sharing their own therapeutic experiences.
  • Quote (Host):

    "The reality... is that is a portion of OCD, but not the most portion. It just happens to be the one that's most portrayed in TVs and movies..." —NOCD Host [37:55]

Advice to Her Children and Listeners

• Wise Words and Hope ([40:14]–[41:27])
  • Jen addresses her children (and those listening) with advice: If this ever affects your life, know that it’s manageable and not a source of shame.
  • Quote:

    "Those moments when you feel like it's the absolute end of the world. It's not. You'll come out on the other side. Just remember your coping skills and that. I'm always here for you, always." —Jen Wiles [41:14]

Reflections on Sharing Her Story

• Vulnerability and Hope for Others ([41:46]–[46:26])
  • Jen acknowledges initial terror and uncertainty about disclosing her mental health struggles, especially as a healthcare professional worried about stigma.
  • She hopes openness encourages others to seek help and shatters the illusion that only “perfect” people are free from mental health challenges.
  • Quote:

    “I'm an award-winning nurse and now people are going to see this side of me and... it's terrifying, you know... but you know, I bet that the majority of people will say, man, I'm kind of like that too.” —Jen Wiles [42:13]

The Critical Importance of Accessibility

• Timely Help Saves Lives ([44:46]–[46:26])
  • Jen contrasts waiting six months for a therapy appointment with instant access through the NOCD platform.
  • Stresses how rapid support can change, or even save, lives.
  • Quote:

    “If I wouldn't have done anything, what kind of destructive behaviors would I have chosen? ...I am so thankful for your services. You know, I've never considered suicide, but I will say that I can see why that would be an option for people that are tortured like this if they don't have the proper help. So I get it. I've been there. But I am so eternally thankful for this option because it, I mean, it saved my life...” —Jen Wiles [45:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You are not OCD. You are not what it tells you. You are actually the complete opposite of what it tells.” —Jen Wiles [00:40] & [32:12]
• “It attacks what you care about most.” —Jen Wiles [10:37]
• “I like to call it a sludge... you have this life on the outside, and then you have this dark interior life... Nobody would know that I am anything but functional.” —Jen Wiles [15:41]
• “My kids will not know that... They will know that mom struggles, but mom does the best she can. They will know that they are so loved.” —Jen Wiles [33:21]
• “It’s not really conquered, it’s just managed. And I am understanding that, you know, this is going to be something that's lifelong. It's going to ebb and flow.” —Jen Wiles [30:45]
• “If I can do this to help one single person, for them to know that they are not alone... then I’ve done my job.” —Jen Wiles [35:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00–04:42| Jen’s early experiences and onset of harm OCD | | 06:56–08:37| The challenge of seeking help and stigma in the medical field | | 10:37–11:25| Impact of OCD on pregnancy and motherhood | | 12:13–13:44| Discovery of ERP and NOCD | | 14:26–17:34| Living with invisible “sludge” and emotional cost | | 19:25–24:13| Effectiveness of ERP, the app, and support groups | | 24:13–31:18| Reflections on progress, small wins, ongoing management | | 32:37–37:55| Motivation to speak publicly and promote family openness | | 37:55–39:02| Addressing OCD misconceptions | | 40:14–41:27| Advice for her children and others | | 41:46–46:26| Vulnerability, community, and the necessity of accessible care|

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Tone and Language

• The tone is conversational, vulnerable, and hopeful, with moments of humor and warmth.
• Language is raw, honest, and supportive, often with emphasis on dismantling stigma and encouraging compassion.

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Summary

This episode provides a brave, nuanced look inside the lived reality of harm OCD, the deep fear it can create around the people sufferers love most, and the shame that so often silences those who experience it. Jen’s journey—from internalizing her distress and fearing judgment, to finding community, specialized care, and—most importantly—her own voice, is both relatable and inspiring. The discussion offers concrete hope: OCD, though never fully “conquered,” can be managed, meaningful moments reclaimed, and a new, honest way of living modeled for future generations.

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If you or someone you know relates to Jen’s story, visit nocd.com for more information and support.

Transcript

[Jen Wiles]

And I had a just random thought one night about just some harm. And it just stuck. And it stuck hard. I had no idea what was happening, not a clue. It went into where I couldn't sleep. I was panicking every time I closed my eyes. This summer I had a really bad spike. Went down the Google rabbit hole. Ended up finding you guys. And this company, I will say, basically saved my life. I still have those. Those days that are really dark, that are really rough. But, you know, being able to. To use the ERP and separate myself from that OCD brain. As I've learned, you are not ocd. You are not what it tells you. You are actually the complete opposite of what it tells.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

Whether you realize it or not, you probably know someone with obsessive Compulsive disorder or maybe you love someone with ocd. And if those two don't fit, you might be the person with obsessive compulsive disorder. Because of this, OCD awareness is so personal for all of us. We hope that raising awareness will bring hope to everyone and their friends and their families who are affected by Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. When we recognize what OCD really is, it offers us a couple of options. We can see the signs in ourselves and others much quicker that can help to end a great deal of suffering. OCD is the world's leading OCD treatment provider and I'm honored to lead a team of licensed clinicians who are specially trained to accurately diagnose OCD and provide the treatment of choice, exposure, exposure and response prevention so that we know that we can give people the lives that they want to live and help them not live the lives that OCD wants them to live. In addition to that, for ocd, it means applying the work that we do to other conditions that often come along with obsessive compulsive disorder, such as body focused repetitive behaviors, tics hoarding, anxiety disorders, mood conditions, trauma, and even body dysmorphic disorder. If any of these are things that are affecting you or your loved ones or family, know that help is available. If you're looking for help, you can check us [e-mail] that's n o c d com. Our goal is simple. To make sure that nothing, not ocd, not stigma, not misconceptions, gets in the way of you living the life you want. You deserve to focus on things that bring you joy and meaning. Helping you is just personal to us.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

It's what we do. Hi everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of the get to Know ocd podcast. We're so happy to have you here with us today. As always, if you're interested in watching other episodes of the podcast, you can get them on our NOCD YouTube channel or get them wherever you subscribe to your favorite podcast provider. And if you're looking for help for OCD, check us [e-mail] that's n o c d dot com. Today we have Jen Wiles with us.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

Hi, Jen, how are you?

[Jen Wiles]

Good morning. I'm, I'm good. I'm nervous, but I'm here. I'm happy.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Oh, we only take non nervous people to the podcast, Jen, so we'll have to do this again sometime. All right, well, well, welcome. We're happy to have you here. And you reached out wanting to chat about opening up about your OCD and treatment and, and so we're thrilled to have you here to chat and thank you for sharing your story because it is fun, of course, when we have people here who are famous and who talk about all the cool stuff they're doing and how they've lived with OCD and everything. But that's one side of it. Yeah. I think what's also incredibly awesome and relatable is the day to day folks who have OCD who come in and say, listen, I may not be famous, I may not be on TV or radio, but OCD affects my life too. And so the fact that you reached out and wanted to talk about that and be open about it, I commend you. Thank you very much.

[Jen Wiles]

Thank you so much. Thank you. Yes, I'm happy to be here.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

So why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, what is your OCD story? How did it start and how did it end up to a point where you decided it was time to get some treatment for it?

[Jen Wiles]

Sure. So my story kind of culminated. I think I had little quirks, you know, growing up and into early adulthood. Nothing that ever hindered my life per se. But then when I was, I had a very stressful time in my life when I was about 28, 29, I had a lot of things going on. I was getting married, I was finishing nursing school, working a part time job, working a full time job, redoing the house. Just a lot of stress at once and I think it just kind of broke me. And I had a just random thought one night about just some harm and it just stuck. And it stuck hard and then I just spiraled, I guess mentally, just trying to diminish that thought and get rid of it. It Centered around harm and someone that was very important to me, a very important family member. And I had no idea what was happening, not a clue. It went into where I couldn't sleep. I was panicking. Every time I close my eyes, you know, that thought would be there and it just continued and continued and it would, it would pick and choose different people that I cared about. I ended up googling just, you know, I was even scared to google my symptoms because I was terrified that, you know, somebody would see what I was googling. And here I am finishing nursing school and, you know, it was just, it was terrible. And so I ended up piecing together little pieces and parts of, you know, what was going on and learned that, you know, OCD was probably what I had and looked more into the harm part of it and ended up, you know, kind of just self diagnosing for a little bit. And I went to my primary doctor, just spoke of anxiety. My primary doctor is a very close friend. So I obviously didn't want to let them in on a crack or flaw in my life.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

You know, you don't want to tell your friend about all the harm you were thinking of causing.

[Jen Wiles]

No. And you want to be, you know, you want to be this upstanding citizen and you don't want anybody to know that, you know, you're not. And so I got on a low dose medication and I mean, I think it helped a little bit. But I did reach out to just some general talk therapy. I did that for years. It helped, but it wasn't OCD specific at all. It was just basically just talking to a friend. I mean, it did help, but it was nothing. It didn't deep dive into anything that needed taking care of. And then a couple years after we got married, I got pregnant with my daughter and under my OB's, you know, care and my, my general doctor, we weaned off of my medication for, I think it. The whole time. I don't think I took anything with my daughter. I was terrified because I was just under the guise that if I took anything, I would harm my kid. Even though, you know, all these doctors were telling me it was fine. I wouldn't even drink diet pop. I mean, I was just, you know, hi, ocd. Welcome to being pregnant with ocd.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jen Wiles]

And so I did end up seeing a psychiatrist. And once I got past the stigma of that, and I would like to point out that I think it's extremely important to go to someone that specializes in what's wrong. So I have a lot of people that with myself being a nurse, I have a lot of people that come to me. I work in the mental health field, and I. For a long time, I was ashamed, and I. There was such a stigma with going to see a psychiatrist. I mean, you know, and you wouldn't go to a cardiac doctor for GI problems, you know, like you would. You. You need to go to someone who specializes in your brain, which is an organ. And so I ended up going to the psychiatrist, and he did diagnose me with ocd. I had some. Some panic issues with that as well. But looking back now, I think the panic is from the untreated ocd, because I got into such a deep spiral. And so then I had my daughter. Things got rough again. I ended up going back on some medication. I went on a quite a high dose, actually, because I. I didn't reach out to my psychiatrist. I just specifically went to my ob and they put me on quite a heavy dose because, you know, to the ob, it's anxiety and it's postpartum. And. Yeah, I never really told anybody that I was diagnosed with ocd. You know, it was. At that point, it was. I was. I was scared, I was embarrassed. You know, I mean. And so they put me on a pretty heavy dose of medication. I was really sleepy all the time. It wasn't the right med. My thoughts were rough with my. With my babies. They were rough. And now, looking back, now that I know more about ocd, I know that it attacks what you care about most. And, you know, my family definitely is what I care about the most in my whole life, you know, and so after I had my daughter, I went back to my psychiatrist, and I was not on the right medication. So he changed it for me. And then, let's see, probably three years after that, I mean, I struggled. It's always there. It's always in the background. Some days it's more sitting in the, you know, the passenger seat. Some days it's driving, some days it's in the trunk, I guess, you know, but it's. It's kind of always with me. And when I was. I got pregnant with my son, and I knew, you know, right away I didn't want to feel like how I felt with, you know, my daughter. So I worked with my OB and my psych, and we got my meds fixed and ended up, you know, I think. I think towards the end of my. My third trimester, I was able to go off of it for a while under his recommendation. And then as soon as I delivered, I went back on. So.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Okay.

[Jen Wiles]

And that really helped me. That really helped me through that postpartum period. And I did, I did breastfeed both my kids. And I was terrified of that because I was terrified that I would hurt them through my, you know, through doing that. But I followed my doctor's advice and my kids are fantastic and smart and strong and they're. They're the best two things that have ever happened to me.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

So.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah. And then after my postpartum journey, I think I did okay for, I would say maybe four or five years this summer. I had a really bad spike, went down the Google rabbit hole again, ended up finding you guys. And this, this company, I will say, basically saved my life, so. And that's where I'm at.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

That's awesome. I've been thrilled that you found evidence based treatment. That's great.

[Jen Wiles]

Without a doubt. And the way this is set up and how it has helped me is beyond words.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

What was it like to finally talk to someone about what was really going on and finally be honest about.

[Jen Wiles]

Right. So, I mean, I remember the day that I. I scheduled the zoom call and it was in between. It was on my lunch break and I was terrified. I was in a really dark place. I was deep inside of a spiral. And when you're, you know, people that are watching this know when you're in that spiral, you're in that spiral and that's the only thing that you can focus on and your logical brain is not firing, it's not online, and you are offline for the time. And I mean, I was, I was terrified to tell her. I was worried about, you know, what she would say, how she would think, you know, is she going to call cps? Are my kids going to be gone when I get home? You know, I was just in a really bad place. But I mean, once I. I spent a few minutes with her and I knew that she was the right one, so it didn't take long at all. And. And I knew she could help me. And. And yeah, I was just. It was a big, big weight to lift it off. To know that you find somebody that gets you and that understands.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

That's awesome.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

For years, then you have this anxiety, this suffering, this I can't tell anyone, this shame, this guilt, embarrassment, this torture for sure that will resonate with so many people listening to this. And now that you've come out kind of on the other side of that, what would you say to people? And this is, this is normally when I'm ending, I'm like, what's your advice? But I think. I think I want to talk about this today more so than I normally do, you know, did you need to suffer that long?

[Jen Wiles]

I mean, looking back, I wish I would have found this option earlier when I was doing my googling and research and stuff. I mean, I just never found this. I don't know how long your company's been. How long have you guys been going?

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Well, we've been doing the teletherapy for five years, but the app stood around for quite a while.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I just didn't find it. God, I wish I would have found it sooner. Like I said, talk therapy. I've been in counseling since I've been a kid. I have a lot of generational trauma, so to speak, and, and I think it, you know, that that was part of it too. I think it all builds up and, you know, it just takes one, one thing sometimes to, to make it crack. But the talk therapy worked to help with just the base anxiety, but to get into the ocd. Yeah, I wish I would have found this a lot sooner, for sure.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And you're almost living a dual life, right? You've got your life where you're at work, you're with the family, and then you have this dark interior life.

[Jen Wiles]

I like to call it a sludge.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

It kind of sludge. Thank you. Yeah. Okay, so let's use sludge. Yeah, you've got this sludge that you're trudging through also that nobody else knows about.

[Jen Wiles]

Nobody.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And you're, you know, you have the face of, oh, I'm here and I'm at work and I'm with my kids and I'm at the correct school meetings and that I have.

[Jen Wiles]

I've never missed a day of work because of it. I have never been to, you know, a hospital. I've never been to an ER for it. I have suffered through it. I've taken a medication like an anxiety medic, like a quick acting anxiety med. I've probably taken that twice in my life. Nobody would know that I am anything but functional.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. And did you feel functional?

[Jen Wiles]

I mean, to a point where I get everything done? Yeah. I mean, my eyes are dotted, my T's are crossed, and my kids are very taken care of and, and I'm very productive. But inside it's a whole different story.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And could you really enjoy anything or was there always this thing? Yes, you got everything done and commend you for that. But on the emotion side, how.

[Jen Wiles]

How was it just a tornado, nightmare Inside a lot of the time. I think it. And I know, I don't think, I know it stole a lot from me as far as being with. Present with my kids, and I have a, I have a hard time. You know, it's a regret of mine, but I know I, I couldn't, it's nothing that I could choose differently. I did the best I could. I do the best I can.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jen Wiles]

But it does, it does steal a lot of moments for me. So there's a lot of anger with that.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

No doubt. Right. I mean, how do you, how you balance the two worlds, I think is something that so many people struggle with because they have this sludge, as you say, on the inside, and they have this life on the outside, and they have to figure out how to get through all of this.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And be able to function.

[Jen Wiles]

Right.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And of course, with, you know, the, the diagnostic manual, and I'm sure you've looked at this, I think gives an incomplete definition of OCD because it talks about anxiety or discomfort, but it's also shame and guilt and disgust and all these other emotions. What were some of just the driving, terrible feelings that you were going through in that sludge of, of emotion?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, gosh. I mean, looking back now, I would say fear, self doubt. I think my, my confidence levels have a lot to do with that. I don't, I don't think a lot of times that I'm good enough, and I think that might come from, you know, childhood and, and things like that. But just, just the doubt, you know, the what ifs. I know we're, you know, that, that's like the big poster child of OCD is what if? You know, and, and that boils down to doubt. I mean, it's, it's doubt, fear, and lack of self confidence. I feel like those are my big major.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jen Wiles]

Triggers.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

How do you deal with those now?

[Jen Wiles]

I mean, my, my therapist is just phenomenal. She's like one of the best human beings I've ever met. So you guys are, you guys are so lucky to have her.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Awesome. Awesome.

[Jen Wiles]

And she, she has, I mean, she's really given me some tips and tricks. The app helps phenomenally. I'm on it all the time to do my exposures. That helps a lot. I, I, I just have to accept that the maybe, maybe not. That's, that's one of my exposures that I do. Maybe, maybe yes, maybe no, and just, you know, let it go. Because nobody can ever be 100% certain with any of those things, you know, fear, doubt, self Confidence, I mean. Yeah. So you just. I mean, I just do the best I can. I know. I. I'm a great mom and I have great kids, and I have people tell me that all the time, and. And I do the best I can for them, you know, and just day by day.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

As an avid user of the app, then what. What do you really get out of it? What do you enjoy? Because I. I realize. I don't know that I've asked anyone that question now. You know, maybe. Maybe that'd be a good idea to just throw that out. But as someone who's really enjoying the app, what. How do you use it and what do you get from it as a way to help encourage other people to maybe get it downloaded and start to use?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, yeah, for sure. So, like, I have to watch because I have to. I have to keep a good balance because sometimes I can be to where I use it as a compulsion, right where I get on. And I am checking the message board to see. To make myself feel better. You know, I have to watch because a lot of the times I am. And I'm sorry to my therapist, I bugger all the time in the messages, but I'm. I'm looking a lot for messages and reassurance, which I know is a. A big. You know, that's a big no for that. So. And sometimes she'll tell me that she makes me wait on purpose.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. Right back.

[Jen Wiles]

So that I can kind of work my way through the sludge.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jen Wiles]

And it does work. It does work. But for the. The most of the time, I. I love the. The accessibility of the SOS Button. I've used that quite a few times, and I'll just kind of sit with it and listen, and it'll get me through those really sticky moments. I love the journaling portion of it. I journal. You can kind of tell when I'm having good and bad days because I'll journal a lot on my bad days and maybe just once every other day if things are going good. And sometimes if I'm really brave, I can look back at my hard days and look at my journal entries on my hard days and realize how far I've come if I'm. If I'm brave. The. Yeah, the journaling is great. The exposures are wonderful. I love how you can rate your exposures. One of my big exposures and fears right now is just being. Just being out with my kids and worrying about, you know, panic and. And having a big spin out, I guess, you know, and so I will If I'm driving with my kids, I'll start my app. I will go to my exposure and I will start it and I will say how I'm feeling. I'll rate my, my feelings, you know, and then I will, once I get to my destination, I can finish it. And I just, I feel accomplished when I do my exposures. And even though some days I feel like I'm just thick in it and, you know, it's not helping, I can look back and definitely see that it's helped so that I love that aspect of it.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

That's great.

[Jen Wiles]

And then, yeah, the accessibility of the zoom is fantastic because I can be anywhere and do that. I don't have to schedule in person to where I have to rearrange my whole schedule, my work, picking up the kids. I mean, the accessibility of the zoom is fantastic. So, yeah, it's a great, it's just fantastic. Really, really life changing for ocd.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And sometimes people wonder in person versus virtual, how has the virtual experience been from a therapeutic point of view for you?

[Jen Wiles]

I mean, I've done both. If I could be in person with mine, I would love it because I would give her the biggest hug ever. I would love to just, just thank her for every second she's helped me. But I mean, the zoom is, the zoom is great because I, like I said, I can anywhere. I'm, I travel as a nurse, so I'm all over the place and if I can catch a minute after work or before work or you know, on my lunch break, it's just, it just works perfectly.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

So looking at your life pre and post, finding ERP for ocd, what are some of the major differences that you've experienced?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, man. I mean, pretty. I just kind of pushed it under the rug and kind of, I guess like, you know, your Tupperware closet or your Tupperware cabinet where you shove everything in the Tupperware cabinet. You just close the door and just hope that it stays in. Yeah, some days it stayed in, some days it didn't. Now I kind of feel like I'm organizing my, my, you know, my, my cabinet. So it's just, you know, those exposures really help me feel accomplished. I'm proud of myself when I do those things and I can look back and, and see, you know, what I've done for the day. And even if it's a tiny win, I mean, even the other day on the message board, it was a something with just tell me your wins for the day. And it was, it was great to go through there and see everybody's little tiny wins, even if they were just minuscule, you know? And it was like, I like looking back at things like that. So the ERP is just. It's really a game changer for ocd.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

That's cool. What are some of your wins?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, man, just. My. My biggest wins are just being with my kids, being present with my kids. I have a lot of, I guess, harm OCD thoughts, and they kind of. They kind of just hang. Hang with my kids. They hang with my, you know, my husband, I love you. But, you know, they. Like I said, it focuses on. It tries to get who you care about. It doesn't matter, you know?

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. I did an interview once with someone, and she said, I come down every morning and I see my dog, and my OCD says, maybe you want to stab your dog. And she just picks up her dog and hugs her dog and says, I must love you so much if my OCD wants you dead every day. And that's. And that's how she just answers. And OCD gets foiled again by that whole thing.

[Jen Wiles]

Yes, it does. It does. And a little side note, I forgot to say, I really enjoy the support groups.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Oh, good.

[Jen Wiles]

That kind of. That kind of went off. I'll go on. Off on a little tangent on that, but that you're. The humor that you just used made me think of the support group last night. I think it was whatever was on Sunday nights, but the whole. It was like the Taboo OCD thoughts support group.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

The one. Tracy.

[Jen Wiles]

Yes. And she's wonderful. I. That was the first time I've ever been around her. And the way she uses humor really, like, changed my. Changed my thought process on that. And, you know, we were laughing, and I thought, wow, this is. This is a whole different way to look at it, you know, with the humor. So that helped quite a bit last night. And then the support groups with the app are just fantastic because it gives me something to look forward to. I can put it on mute and just do my dishes and listen to others that are like me. I've never spoken out in a support group. I just always listen. But it's. It's just really nice to. To know that there's so many other people like us because it can make you feel so isolated, you know, and that you're the only person in the world with this, when in reality, it's. It's. You're not. You're not.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

So sometimes as a therapist, you know, I can tell people. They tell me something. They look at Me, like, waiting for the shock on my face. And I say, you're about the 7,000th person who's told me that.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

What do you mean?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, my God. And that's how, you know, you found. Found a good one, is when they just know. But a lot of back to my wins. A lot of my wins are just, I guess, just focused around my kids. I try to give them the best life, you know, My husband and I try to give him the best life that we can. A lot of things, you know, that I didn't get to do growing up. Sports and. And trips, and. I mean. I mean, we just do everything that we can do. And sometimes the wins. Most of the wins are just, you know, being present with them, enjoying the moment with them, seeing life through their eyes and just keeping OCD in that closet back there, you know?

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's really. It's got a. Tell me what you think of this. But I would think it's gotta be nice even to look forward to doing things now versus probably dreading.

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

How is this gonna get ruined by OCD or something?

[Jen Wiles]

Sure, sure. And, I mean, nowadays, I find that now that I've, you know, had the. The therapy and doing the erp, I've found that I can recognize that I have, you know, like, my logical brain and then I have my OCD brain. And I'm. I'm finding that when I get, like, compounding stressors. Last week, I had a terrible week. Everything just was going wrong. I just had to stop at a car accident, and that was traumatic, and everything was just piling up, you know, and my therapist, Angie, talks about, you know, keeping the cork floating. You know, you want to let that cork kind of float. And I had stressors on top of stressors on top of stressors last week. And I knew it was coming. I did the best I could, but it still. It came. Came at me probably Thursday, Friday, Saturday, it led up a little bit Sunday. But it was so. I still have those. Those days that are really dark, that are really rough, but, you know, being able to use the ERP and separate myself from that OCD brain. And when I'm in that logical brain moment, like, I'm so thankful for my life. I'm so thankful for my kids. I'm so thankful for my family. I'm so thankful for the sun. Like, when I'm in that. That brain, and I'm just. It's me. And OCD is not attached to me at that moment in time. Those Those moments are priceless. Priceless.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. That's awesome.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah. But I mean, I also have, like, on the app, I have conqueror behind.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

My name, so congratulations on that. That's wonderful.

[Jen Wiles]

Thank you. But I will. I will be the first to tell people that it's not really conquered, it's just managed. And I am understanding that, you know, this is going to be something that's lifelong. It's going to ebb and flow. You know, I'm going to have. I'm going to have rough days where I, you know, can't see the end and can't wait till I can go to bed and close my eyes and restart the day. But I also, you know, realize that they're not going to last. And I've been here before, so.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. And for us, that.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

That conqueror, you know, what.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

What that really means is that you've taken a significant bite out of the influence of OCD on your life. You're right. It. It doesn't mean you don't have it. Right. But you are starting to really live the life that you want to live and not the life that OCD wants you to live. And that's what we're talking about with that. And we know that OCD is a chronic condition, which is why you can see your NOCD therapist for years. Right. And in a maintenance level, just to be able to make sure that now and then you have a session just to check in and make sure you're using the skills that you've learned. And if there's a flare up, you can schedule more sessions if you need to, to help. And you've got the messaging and you've got the app and you've got the sos. We've. We've tried to make that full package available to everybody so that OCD takes a backseat in your life.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah. And it's so important. It's so important because you are like, as I've learned, you are not ocd. You are not what it tells you. You are actually the complete opposite of what it tells you. You know, you. You. Those thoughts are not you. You know, they're so not you.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

You know, you didn't have to come on here and start talking about this and telling your story, and it sounds like you've been rather private about it up until now.

[Jen Wiles]

Absolutely.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Why the change? What. What's the. What's the impetus of all of this for you?

[Jen Wiles]

So I am doing this, and I will try to keep my emotions here. That's so I.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

You could be emotions. We're good.

[Jen Wiles]

Okay. So I am doing this for my kids. So if. I mean, no one wants to sit and talk and, you know, sit with your kids and tell them that this is what your thoughts are. You know, kids aren't. Kids aren't going to understand that. You know, adults don't understand that. You know, when I was growing up, we had a lot of anxiety, and there's a lot of mental health issues in my family. And it was never talked about. It was always brushed under the rug. People cried behind closed doors. You know, people were hospitalized and nobody talked about it. And to this day, I mean, you know, my family members, they. Nobody wants to talk about it. You know, it's just something that we don't talk about. I was raised in a pretty strict Catholic household, and if something was wrong or bothering me, we were told to pray about it. And it was never discussed. And my kids will not. My kids will not know that. Okay? They will know that mom struggles, but mom does the best she can. They will know that they are so loved, you know, and they are the best things that ever happened to me. I'm thankful for them every single day. My daughter knows. She can tell. Tell me. She'll ask me, mom, what's your level today? What number are you today? And she goes, she goes, mom, you got this. You know, And I was having a rough day. I was having a rough week. And I put lunches in my kids or lunches. I put notes in my kids lunch boxes and I got one in mine. And my daughter was telling me that basically what I tell them, you know, that, that it's okay to not be okay. And you get to come home and we get to be a family and be together. And, you know, they listen. Even when you think they're not listening, they listen and, you know, they know that I have anxiety. I really, I haven't really tipped on the OCD part yet because they're little. They're not going to understand that yet. Yeah, but I do, you know, I do know that it can be, you know, have some genetic components. I know I have some people in my family that have. Definitely have some OCD tendencies. They. They won't do anything about it, but I mean, that's just how they live their life. But we're not going to do that in this house. So we talk about things every day. Every day we go, we go through our day and say, you know, give me something good about your day. Tell me something bad about your day. You know, how are you feeling? It's okay. To have anxiety, that's part of life, you know, let's talk about it. Let's, let's figure out what we can do to make it better. So if I can do this, and not just even my kids, like, if I can do this to help one single person, for them to know that they are not alone and that you can be the most professional, well put together person, you know, and you can have this, this sludge inside that, that just overtakes your logical brain on some days, most days, and that you can do this. You are not what OCD tells you. And OCD is not just washing your hands. I've had a lot of people, you know, if we get to talking about ocd, the first thing is they're like, well, you know, isn't that just where you wash your hands all the time and you like line things up and I'm, you know, I want, I want to scream to them from the rooftop that, yeah, you know, that is not, it's one component, but it's, that's just not, not it, you know, And I, I think the more awareness that we can, can bring to this, I think, I mean, if it can just help one single person, you know, through that dark time where they're spiraling and they, they feel like they're just panic, you know, they, they can't get out of that, that panic spiral, then I've done my job. And if my kids can look back at this one day and, and you know, they, they can watch, you know, mom open up and, and you know, just know that they were loved. And this is how I helped myself. You know, I, I don't drink. I don't, you know, I don't have any like, self destructive behaviors. You know, I do the, the best I can, you know, with my, the journaling and, and I, you know, I've started another app where I do like, meditation recommended by my counselor. And I'm doing, I'm going to do it the right way instead of how things were when I was little. So, yeah, it's for my kids and, and to help just that one, one single person out there that I know is like me.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. One of the, one of the things you said and I want to pick up on is the idea that a lot of people think that OCD is either washing your hands or straightening things. And the reality of it is, is that is a portion of ocd, but not the most portion. It just happens to be the one that's most portrayed in TVs and movies. And things of that nature, the harm and the taboo thoughts of OCD are actually the most common forms of ocd. And so when people hear that, they're often surprised because they just have this notion from television that it is just washing your hands and checking locks and stoves. I cannot tell you how many times back when I was doing this live, I spent standing at train tracks with people behind me thinking about pushing me under the train or at the top of stairs with people with their hands on my shoulders, contemplating pushing me down the stairs and. And all of these things. And I'm. I'm still here proving my point, which is OCD is a what if disorder, right? It's.

[Jen Wiles]

It's correct.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And yet those what ifs can feel so. So real to people.

[Jen Wiles]

So real. So real.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Everyone will ask me, why does. Why does it feel so real? And my reply is very simple. And that is because it has to. If it didn't feel real, I don't have a job. Right. Because you would just be able to go, oh, well, that was that.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah. So, I mean, it'd be like, well, you don't need to talk to me if that's the case. Right.

[Jen Wiles]

And I. I often. I often. I'm so jealous of people that. That don't have, you know, my brain. I often ask my husband, what's it feel like to just be you? And just, you know, he's just. He's happy all the time and nothing bothers him. And, you know, I just. He can slam a Mountain Dew and go to bed and it's like, what. What's it like to be you? Just. Just for one day? I would just love to know what it's like to be like that.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

As you.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Think about this, and I liked what you said about leaving something for your children. I'll often ask at the end here for people to describe.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

What piece of.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Advice you want to give to listeners. But I'm going to change that for you. What's the piece of advice you want to leave for your children?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, goodness. That, you know, if. If the day comes where this, you know, affects your life, I hope that it doesn't. But if it does, I hope they can look back and, you know, see that. That mom did the best she could. There's no shame in it. I hope I'm. I hope I'm around long enough to help them through it, but just that. That you can do it with the right tools and it's just something that you. It's just another facet of your Personality, like, it's just something that you can learn to live with, you can learn to manage. It's not the end of the world. Those moments when you feel like it's the absolute end of the world. It's not. You'll come out on the other side. Just remember your coping skills and that. I'm, I'm always, I'm always here for you, always.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Then I'm going to do one more piece that I don't normally do in any interviews, but I'll do a little PS version here. So this was the first time you were really open and talking about OCD and everything. I'm going to bet there was a range of emotions prior to joining on this call today and.

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, man, yes, absolutely.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Doubt, regret. Why did I, why did I reach out for this?

[Jen Wiles]

I was shaking when I was brushing my teeth this morning.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Well, you got an extra good brush then. Is this.

[Jen Wiles]

I did, yes, I did.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

That's, that's, but you, you came through, you did it. Wonderful job. How does it feel on the back end to now talk about this?

[Jen Wiles]

I mean, the world's going to know. And I did tell a couple people, you know, that I was doing this and I told him that, you know, when I see the final version, I'll, I think I'll have to get to the next level of brave to kind of let people watch it. Because for a while leading up to this I was, I was terrified. You know, I'm a nurse, you know, I take care of people. I, I'm an award winning nurse and now people are going to see this side of me and, you know, what are they going to think? You know, am I going to be judged? Are people going to worry about, you know, leaving their kids alone with me? You know, I just, it's just, you know, it's terrifying, you know, when, when in reality it's the complete opposite. Like I was telling my, my therapist the other day, like, if I find a spider in the house or a flower fly, like, I cup it and I let it go, like, so that's such, and that's who I am.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Sure.

[Jen Wiles]

But to have this facet is like, you know, if you don't understand, I mean, you'll, you'll be judged, you know.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jen Wiles]

So, but yeah, there was a range of emotions coming to do this, definitely. And I, I, I've been, I, it started with dread. What did I do? Oh my gosh, what are people going to think? Um, but you know, I bet that the majority of people will say, man, I'm Kind of like that too. Like, I, I, I know somebody that's like that or, you know, I'm, I think you'd be surprised how many people, you know that, that struggle with one, one thing or another. And I just wish that we could be more open about it. You know, I just, I just wish that, that we had like bubbles on top of our head that gave our little, our bio so we could look and say, hey, there's, there's an ocd. There's a fellow OCD person. High five. You know, you got this, you know.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And the thing that I love about it too is I help it continues to let people know that we are a multifaceted person. Right. You can be an award winning, successful nurse and still struggle with something, right?

[Jen Wiles]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Let's not assume that everybody, every day has it all together and let's take time to check in with everybody and just make sure that we're doing well mentally and physically, not just.

[Jen Wiles]

Absolutely, absolutely. And I also, this is like a little tangent, but like, when I, when I were to go to talk therapy back, like in the summer, it took six months before they called me back to try to get, to get in to talk to somebody. So that's another good thing about the app is that you can get right in. So that's, that's, that, that in itself is priceless.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah.

[Jen Wiles]

I mean, because I called in May and they just called me back in September to get an appointment. So if I would have, you know, if I wouldn't have done anything, what kind of destructive behaviors would I have chosen?

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Yeah, yeah, so that's great. So you had reached out to someone and they waited six months to call you back, but with the app, we got you in probably within a week or so.

[Jen Wiles]

Yeah, it was within, within days I got in with you guys. So, yeah, that's, that in itself is priceless. And I will say, you know, just to finish this, that I am just so thankful for this app. I am so thankful for your services. You know, I've never considered suicide, but I will say that I can see why that would be an option for people that are tortured like this if they don't have the proper help. So I get it. I've been there. But I am so eternally thankful for this option because it, I mean, it saved my life. It, you know, not in a literal sense, but it saved my life by, you know, slowly giving me my life back.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

So that's awesome. Well, I couldn't think of a better way to end and just to say thank you for, for being you and your bravery for being here today and your openness. And I know it will influence a lot of people. So I really appreciate it so much.

[Jen Wiles]

I appreciate it. Thank you.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

Awesome.

[NOCD Host - Clinical Director]

All right, everyone, another great episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. Thanks, Jen, for being here today. It was amazing.

[NOCD Host - Podcast Moderator]

And thank all of you for watching. If you like the get to Know OCD podcast, you can go to our NOCD YouTube channel and subscribe. Or you can get it where you get your favorite podcasts. And if you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions like body focused repetitive behaviors like hair pulling or skin picking, and we do work with tics and hoarding and anxiety and mood concerns and trauma, reach out to [e-mail] that's n o c d com. We'll see you again soon for another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. And remember, be better to yourself than your OCD ever will be. Thanks. We'll see you soon.