Loading summary
Transcript92 lines
- [00:00]
A
There was a time in my life where I was convinced in high school that I was going to kill people with my vagina germs. There was a point in my life where I convinced myself I was going to impregnate my mom. Like, all of this stuff sort of was around my sexuality because this was, you know, important to me. And there was a lot of shame and repression around my sexuality. And therefore, you know, a lot of my, like, obsessions and compulsions had centered around, you know, what represented or what was had to do with my sexuality. I joke about these things in my solo show, you know, which is about my journey with ocd, sort of in conjunction with my journey with my queerness and because I think the way to talk about OCD that makes people want to listen and feel comfortable is to be like, this is intense. This is what was on the table. And also I can look back, thankfully where I am right now and laugh a little bit about it.
- [00:52]
B
Foreign. Are you tired of the endless cycle of your obsessions and compulsions? And do you feel like OCD is ruling your life? Well, listen, you don't have to go on like this forever. As a licensed clinical psychologist with 25 years of OCD treatment experience, I know firsthand how debilitating the condition can be. But I also know that it can be managed with the right treatment. This is why I lead a team of top tier clinical experts at nocd. NOCD is an online platform offering specialized, accessible and convenient OCD treatment. To get started with effective treatment for obsessive compulsive disorder, head to nocd.com and book a free call with our team to start your treatment journey today. It's time to live the life you deserve and not the life that OCD wants you to live. And don't forget, select subscribe to our NOCD YouTube channel so you can stay up to date with our latest podcasts and webinars. Now, onto today's episode. Hi everyone and welcome once again to another episode of the get to Know OCD podcast. I'm Dr. Patrick McGrath, the Chief Clinical Officer for NOCD. Today I have Olivia Levine. Hi Olivia, how are you today?
- [02:04]
A
Hey, I'm well. Thanks for having me.
- [02:07]
B
Glad to have you here. You have just come out with a solo show about growing up with OCD called Unstuck and and I would love to talk about that today as we get to know you. But first share a little bit about you and your journey and what led you to coming to the podcast today so that our listeners can know you A little bit better.
- [02:29]
A
Absolutely. A little bit about me. I am an actor, writer, and standup comedian. I'm originally from San Francisco, California, and I have been living in New York for 15 years now. I am also a. I'm a queer woman, so I'm. I identify as very gay. In fact, some people have called me the gayest person they know. Is a huge compliment. And, yeah, I get. In my life. I'm performing and writing all around the city most of my days, but I'm also a big soccer, basketball fan, and I play lots of sports when I can watch lots of sports. And I. In terms of, like, you know, a brief bit about my OCD journey. I was officially diagnosed when I was 17 or 18 years old. It was my freshman year of college after I moved across the country from San Francisco to New York, realized I was gay. Lots of other things going on, you know, so it was a big moment of change that obviously, you know, incited sort of a moment of a, you know, a big OCD spike. And then I kind of started to pursue treatment around that age. And so, yeah, so I. Yeah, I'm.
- [03:47]
B
Shocked because OCD never comes up during a stressor. So that's fascinating.
- [03:53]
A
A very unique story here. Yes.
- [03:55]
B
No one's ever heard this before.
- [03:57]
A
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
- [04:00]
B
No, no, sadly, that is when OCD loves to strike. So how did you manage all of that? You know, changes and moves, what you wanted to do for a living, how feeling sexually, and then suddenly all this doubt that enters your brain all at the same time. That must have been a overwhelming time of life. I would think.
- [04:21]
A
Absolutely. Yeah. Handled it, I would say poorly. But Also, I was 17, 18 years old, so, you know, have a little grace for myself. I think it was. It was incredibly overwhelming. And I didn't really know, like, a. I was like, okay, I'm gay. This is one thing to contend. Contend with, or at the time, maybe I was like, I'm bi. And I was incredibly fixated on this one person. And so there was a lot of, you know, and there was a lot of behaviors around that that were really obsessive. And then at the time, felt embarrassing, but, like, that I couldn't stop them. And I think that created a lot of shame. So I think that was a year of feeling pretty. Just ashamed and out of control. It was scary because I didn't really know what was going on. I think I had a sense, you know, I had a sense from an early age that something was going on. I had. I started therapy when I was 8. Years old, and then was in and out of therapy from that age to, you know, college. When I again started a different, you know, I went to the counseling center, but I never had anyone diagnose me with ocd, like I said. But there was a lot of discussion around, you know, anxiety in general. But I felt scared because I didn't know what to do. I mean, I kind of felt like I was dying every day is what it felt like, because that's what my brain, you know, kind of made me think. And so it took, you know, it took a few months to be like, this is really kind of unmanageable. I went to go see someone at my college, and then they referred me to a cognitive behavioral therapist. And I didn't start doing ERP then, but that was definitely helpful to be diagnosed with OCD and then start to wrap my head around like, oh, this is what's going on.
- [06:11]
B
Yeah. One of the things we love to talk about is that moment of recognition, right. When you finally have a name for something. How did that, that feel for you to know that you weren't the only person in the world who might be having all of this go on at the same time?
- [06:28]
A
Yeah, I think it felt really affirming because, you know, I, I, in high school, I would say, at least from, in terms of, like, physical compulsions, my. Those were the worst in high school. And I think that created a lot of confusion with my friends because I had a lot of, you know, I guess, kind of typical hand washing stuff. And, like, I was. I was sanitizing my hands a lot, and, you know, my hands were bleeding a lot. I was, like, going to the bathroom a lot. You know, I was just doing these things in high school that people were sort of like, olivia, what's going on? Like, stop. You're. You're weirding us out. And there was no language around that at the time for me to be like, oh, like, I don't feel that I can stop this thing. And I don't really know how to explain that to you. And so I think in high school, my ocd, though, I didn't have the name for it, it just felt really isolating, and it felt like it made people upset with me. You know, I had a lot of checking compulsions, too, when I was younger. So I spent a lot of time running around my house at night, you know, checking things in the kitchen, making sure my dad was breathing all this stuff. So just, it, you know, it caused a lot of disruption. And while people were like, as Gentle as possible. People didn't know how to handle it. And so once I came upon a label, and, you know, I think labels are helpful a lot of the time, then I was able to say, you know, I was able to contextualize that behavior and explain that a bit. And that was very affirming for me.
- [07:56]
B
I'm shocked when you say people told you to stop it, that you didn't just stop it. I don't understand why you weren't able.
- [08:06]
A
So, yeah, obviously that was a hard time.
- [08:10]
B
Yeah, that is difficult, especially for people who don't understand OCD or the folks that all of us know in our lives unfortunately too, who just don't even think that mental health is an issue. You should just tell yourself to not think things and then be able to do so. And, and that can be really difficult. Then when they look at someone suffering and they have a mindset that is totally different and says that you just need to knock it off and you'll be fine.
- [08:37]
A
Totally. Which is why it was like confusing to also go to therapists who were trying to help, you know, but like, didn't also necessarily have the language or the training to be able to approach OCD with the framework that's necessary. So, you know, people are out there trying to help, but like, they didn't know what they were trying to help.
- [08:55]
B
You know, so, yeah, that's always a delicate topic. We talk about it a lot where there's a lot of therapists out there who aren't trained in ocd. So what do they provide you? Coping strategies, you know, do some diaphragmatic breathing, do a lot of muscle relaxation every time you have a thought you don't like, think a thought that you do to counteract it and, and tell families sometimes, well, just let them do the, the checking and then they'll be fine after a while. And all that makes it worse, unfortunately, instead of better. So you're kind of postering for us this idea why evidence based treatment is so very important when we're looking at obsessive compulsive disorder.
- [09:29]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [09:32]
B
You eventually got ERP and what was it like to go from those kinds of treatments you were describing before to now, an evidence based treatment where you had to actually learn how to be with discomfort, be with doubt and uncertainty, and learn to live with it instead of do what you can to try to make it go away?
- [09:53]
A
Yeah, it was awesome. It was also really hard. I think what felt really awesome about it at the beginning was sort of being like, you know, As I think I was going through some worksheet checklist of, like, all the types of OCD or all the manifestations I'd experienced, it was really cool to be like, whoa. Like, there were some things where I was like, oh, I didn't even know that was part of my ocd. Like, you know, so it was, it was really cool to specifically identify, like, oh, yeah, that's a part of it. Or like, oh, other people do that, or just be reminded of sort of all the things that I had done or thought about in my life that other people also do and think about because they have ocd. So, again, like, incredibly affirming. And then I think when it came to actually, you know, doing the exposures and, like, creating my hierarchies like that, it was a lot of hard work. And it was, you know, it was hard to hold myself accountable because it's so much easier to compulse and be like, okay, next time I'll do it, you know, And I, and I still struggle with that, you know, And I've been in and out of erp. There have been. Yeah, where I was in our erp I was like, okay, I'm cool. I'm going to go back to talk therapy for a little, to address some other things. Then I was like, hey, I got to get back there, you know, because it's, it's, it's. It requires a lot of discipline. And I think sometimes it, sometimes it was a little challenging to be like, how hard on myself do I want to be about adhering to the proper way of doing erp? Because then that starts a whole other cycle in my head. So, you know, it was like, it was a, a bit of a battle at first, but then to really sort of confront. Yeah, confront the anxiety. Anxiety head on and be like, I can handle this. Like, once you practice anything, it starts to become habitual and really, like, trusting. That was important.
- [11:42]
B
Yeah. And ERP did not harm you, it appears.
- [11:47]
A
No, not at all. No. I am, I am very, very okay.
- [11:52]
B
Always the biggest fear. And I see a lot of people starting, they're like, well, will. Will you make me do something that's bad or awful, horrible? And the answer is no. I mean, we, that's, that's terrible ideas for therapy that we would have people do things that would put them in danger or suffer or something like that. I, I, I just believe this OCD is the thing that makes you suffer, not the therapy.
- [12:14]
A
Oh, totally. And I mean, I think when I started erp, it was very like, you know, I started with things that were very comfortable and worked my way up to things that were less comfortable. It always felt very safe, I think. Yeah, like I said, it's. It's just hard. You. You have to, like, hold yourself accountable and really want to things to be different. And some days I was like, I don't want to work this hard. And some days I was like, yeah, I really want to work this hard because this sucks and I'd rather not have to deal with my ocd.
- [12:40]
B
Yeah.
- [12:41]
A
Yeah.
- [12:42]
B
So I. I just want to go back a little bit more and as much detail as you're willing to say, of course, but all those things happening at that time, right, where you're thinking about what you want to do, you have ideas about sexual orientation and feelings that are going on in your body and. And it's puberty at the. The end. It's a transition time, you know, all of these things happening. How did you think about where to start on everything? Because when you have that much coming at you at one time, it. Where do you even begin? And. And how. How did you choose that?
- [13:22]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think I started the gay stuff felt pretty big because it was kind of all I was thinking about.
- [13:30]
B
All the stuff. Yeah. Y.
- [13:35]
A
No. You know, and this touches definitely a little bit on my show too, but, like, sure. That was a big realization to have because a lot of my earlier years, a lot of my OCD centered, honestly, like around my vagina and fear. There was a lot of like, fear that I was going to like, kill people with my vagina germs. Fear that I was going to infect people with some deadly disease. You know, there was a lot of, like, kind of harm, some stuff mixed with over response, you know, with responsibility stuff and all of that. Center. There was a time in my life where I was convinced in high school that I was going to kill people with my vagina germs. And so every time I went to the bathroom, like, and I wiped, I thought I was getting like dangerous germs on my hands. And the waistband, pants. So I wouldn't actually lift up my pants. Like normally I would put my. I would put my hands, like inside the waistband so the germs remained contained in my mind.
- [14:36]
B
Yes, yes.
- [14:37]
A
I always carried Purell. So I was like purelling my hands and the waistband of my pants every time I went to the bathroom, which was obviously incredibly exhausting. So there was a lot of stuff about, like, sort of containing these germs that came from my vagina. There was a point in my life where I convinced myself I was going to impregnate my mom. Like, all of this stuff sort of was around like, yeah, my vagina and my sexuality. And so it took me obviously years to realize there was a specific focus on this because this was, you know, important to me and I was. And there was a lot of shame and repression around my sexuality. And therefore, you know, a lot of my, like, obsessions and compulsions had centered around, you know, what represented or what was. Had to do with my sexuality. And so, you know, a big part of my journey has been coming into my queerness, embracing my queerness. And that allowed a lot of my, like, kind of obsessions around my vagina and my. And my cleanliness and all this stuff to, like, resolve because I was a lot more comfortable with who I was. So, yeah, when I think, like, the queer part of my journey really went hand in hand with kind of like starting to address my ocd. So, yeah, I kind of like started there and it. And it took a while, but, you know, it was really important to kind of interrogate that and then start to look back and be like, oh, wow. So many of my obsessions and compulsions were around sexuality stuff and was I going to kill people or was I going to hurt people or was I abnormal, whatever?
- [16:13]
B
So, yeah, I remember a conversation with someone once who had a similar thing where he was afraid germs from his genitals would get people sick and potentially kill them. And I remember this conversation asking about, you know, do you wear underwear? And who does the laundry? And when he said, is his parents do the laundry? And I said, so your. Your underwear touches your genitals and your parents could touch your lunch? And his reply was, yeah, but they know that. So if they get sick from that, it's their fault. But if I touch something and they don't know it and they get sick, then it's my fault. Now always use that as an example and you probably understand that of. That's OCD logic right there, right? To just where it goes.
- [16:56]
A
Yeah, absolutely, totally. And I would like, hi. Like, I. I would actually hide my clothes from my parents sometimes, right? I'd keep track and I'd be like, I've worn that pair of pants. Like, my dad can't do the. My dad can't do the laundry, right? Because that pair of pants is probably an infected pair that'll kill him. So, yeah, yeah. So logical.
- [17:17]
B
So, so logical. And how does it feel now to look back at the deadly vagina Idea. And, you know, and I don't say that as a joke. You. You know, that as we do. But, you know, looking back at it now, is it like, wow, where was I going with that?
- [17:36]
A
Right?
- [17:36]
B
Yeah, yeah, totally.
- [17:37]
A
I mean, it's. I have a lot of empathy for little me. It was like a horrible way to feel and it was so tiring. But, yeah, of course, I look back and I'm like. I mean, I joke about these things in my solo show, you know, which is about my journey with ocd, sort of in conjunction with my journey with my queerness and. Because the. I think the way to talk about OCD that makes people want to listen and feel comfortable is to be like, this is intense. This is what was on the table. And also I can look back, thankfully, where I am right now and laugh a little bit about it because it is funny. It's good material. You know, when you think you're going to make your mom pregnant or kill your dad with your vagina, like, so, yes, I have a sense of humor about it all, because I must. It's great material. And I recognize not everyone is in that place, of course, where it's funny and that is absolutely real. But for me, where I am, it's very important to have a sense of humor about it.
- [18:32]
B
Yeah, yeah. We've had Bridget McGuire on here, who's a comedian. She has a show, Ballet Flats for Dinner, where she talks about her OCD as well. So it's always fun to have comedians come on and talk about this because they. You show the polar opposites of what life is like, being just consumed and controlled and living in fear to. Now I'm on the other side. It could be like, oh, ocd. We are going to make so much fun of you right now and pull the rug out from under you that you will have no control over this at all. Yeah.
- [19:05]
A
Yes, yes, exactly. No, no. That's kind of my favorite part about it. And. And, you know, I again feel incredibly grateful that I could do that because at the time it was. It was hard. I kept a lot of secrets because, you know, if my friends didn't understand why I was, like, using hand sanitizer on my hands all the time and why my, you know, hands were bleeding, then they. I didn't feel like they were going to understand me explaining to them, well, I'm afraid I'm going to kill people with my vagina, you know, so, like, yeah, I kept a lot of secrets.
- [19:35]
B
Yeah. OCD is so secretive, right? Because it's like this Special club that only you and OCD are in and no one else can know about it. And if you do tell them, then that they're going to die or something terrible will happen to them? If.
- [19:49]
A
Absolutely, yes, right, exactly.
- [19:51]
B
You. You have to protect them, but you can't tell them why or how or something like that. Especially in kids as adults, you know, you don't see that as much. But in kids, that is just that little secretive thing of, I'm so scared to tell you why I have to do this. And there's a lot of shame, too, right? I mean, how much? How. Let's talk about that for a moment. Because a lot of times people think of OCD as anxiety and discomfort, but there's guilt and there's shame and there's disgust that comes along it too. How much did those other emotions also play a role in your life?
- [20:21]
A
Oh, huge. Huge. I had so much guilt all the time. I would confess everything. Like, I remember I was like in a seventh grade trip, field trip, overnight, and I like, played spin the bottle with these guys. And then I literally sprinted off the bus on the way back and told my dad immediately, and he just laughed, you know, like, I was always confessing people, and people were like, olivia, why are you so. Sprinting off a bus telling your dad you made out with boys? He didn't care. He was sweet. People would get around. Oh, Olivia, you know, so I was just constantly confessing everything I did to my parents, everything I did, you know, I didn't do anything wrong. But at the time, I felt like I was doing so many things wrong. I think there were things I didn't do because of shame. And, you know, like, I think a lot of my friends when I was younger, in high school were drinking earlier on, and I wasn't because I was just so. Like, there was so much guilt around everything especially. Yeah. Being anything but, like, perfect, you know, a lot of perfectionism for me. And so, yeah, the guilt was just really, really big. Like a general fear of being a bad person was sort of all pervasive for me when I was younger. And, you know, still. Still seeps in now, but I'm pretty sure I'm not. So. Yeah. And I think the shame, like you said, so much shame, just so much shame around. I mean, so again, I can get into a little bit of my show, but my show starts. This was. This was pretty much the first really big moment with my OCD, actually was. I was like 13 years old, I think, and when I was about. From maybe 11 to 13 or 12. To 13. I was masturbating in public spaces in a concealed manner. And I was doing this, and I didn't think anything of it. And then one night I was, I. I did that, and suddenly it hit me, like, oh, wait, maybe this is not something you should be doing. And that, like, led to an enormous, like, OCD spike. Like, basically I was like, oh, you're actually the worst person in the world. Like, I spent three months just trying to, like, justify why it was okay, kind of to the point of convincing myself it had never happened. So that was like a three month period where I convinced myself that, like, I was a pedophile, that I had sexually assaulted people. So that was probably like, when I was 13 years old, like, my worst kind of like, spirally spiky moment where I kind of spent like three months almost, like, not talking much. Actually. I'm an incredibly social person, but because I was just, like, ruminating so much and I was like, mentally compulsing so much, and so, like, I spent years. Even after kind of some of that idea that I was a horrible person faded. Like, there was a lot of, like, self castigation. Like, I didn't allow myself to masturbate for years. I still kind of thought that I would never be able to be, like, a fully good person because of what I had done. And so, yeah, that was a time in my life, like high school especially, where I felt like I was just, like, really gross and bad. And that, of course, again, I think intersected with my sexuality in many ways too, because the. The day I realized or decided that I was bad for doing this was because I was masturbating, like, while my friend was asleep next to me. And I think that brought up a lot of fear around, like, sexuality stuff. So anyway, my. My show starts that way, which is always a shock.
- [24:08]
B
Start off with a bang. That's what I say, you know, I.
- [24:10]
A
Mean, why not just our person? Honestly loved that because it was a fun show to pitch to. People got the attention.
- [24:16]
B
It's like, whoa, where do we go from there? Yeah.
- [24:19]
A
Yes. And, you know, for many years I was, like, afraid to say, say that out loud. And now, like, I'm saying that on the podcast, you know, so it's become pretty easy for me to talk about.
- [24:28]
B
And again, look at the power that takes away from ocd, which held you in such shame and such guilt for so long. And now you're like, hey, ocd, I'm doing this on stage now.
- [24:38]
A
Yeah, I'm talking About it. Everyone. Yeah.
- [24:41]
B
So let's talk about the show where, you know, why the show, first of all, why. Why go on stage and talk about this secretive OCD thing and what. What have you gotten out of doing it? Also, you know, how has it just made things in your life, hopefully better by having really done this, confronted this, and bringing this to the forefront for people to really see.
- [25:05]
A
Yeah. I started writing this show in 2018 when I was in a relationship that was, like, just very triggering for my ocd. And a lot of stuff was coming up around, like, fearing that she was dying when she wasn't responding. And I would sort of, like, absolutely have, like, meltdowns where I couldn't control my anxiety. And I started to be like, I need to write some of this down. I. A, I knew I wanted to write a solo show. B, I was like, I need to channel this anxiety in some other way. I don't think I had been. I still hadn't been to erp Actually, this was right before I started erp.
- [25:47]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [25:48]
A
And, yeah, so I was. Yeah, I just, like, needed a way to kind of, like, deal with things that was different. And so I just started writing down how I was feeling in these moments where my OCD felt really bad. And then I kind of took those moments and I wrote. When I really committed to writing the show, I wrote it like a chronology of how my OCD had affected me. And then I started to input jokes. So it's like a sort of half stand up, half storytelling with definitely some heavier moments. But I think I really wanted people to understand what OCD is because I think it's no secret that, like, OCD is pretty widely misunderstood and often just, like, represented on either, like, misrepresented or represented on such a surface level. And I think I felt I had a story that was funny and that was also really engaging and informative. And I wanted to. I wanted people to understand what OCD was in a different way. And I think I've helped people to understand it differently through this show, which feels really cool.
- [27:00]
B
Yeah.
- [27:01]
A
You know? Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:03]
B
So OCD isn't just hand washing is what you're telling us. That's something.
- [27:06]
A
No, it is. No, I'm just kidding. Yes. Yes, exactly. I wanted people to be like, beyond the hand washing and the, you know, organizing pens, because that's what people think OCD is. I want them to really understand, like, these are the thoughts that are going through my mind and these are the things that I'm doing because of it. And I Think people have been so receptive to that and been like, wow, now I understand my sister better. Or, you know, now I understood what you were going through in high school. And like, my parents have a much better understanding of what I was going through because of it. And I think, like, in general, you know, the show's about ocd, but it's also about. It's about being yourself and being honest. And, like, I think it's created a sense of commute. I think it's helped people feel less alone in general, whether that it be because of mental health stuff. And I'm being so upfront about my own. Whether it's because I'm upfront about all of the masturbation stuff and the sexuality, people will come up to me after for various reasons and be like, I. I was doing that too when I was younger. Or they'll be like, I think I have ocd, or my brother does have ocd, or just like, hey, thanks for being so open. Like, that is so brave. You know, I. I think I give people. I show people how open you can be. And. And that that doesn't, in fact, lead to exile and isolation, but it leads to, you know, community and conversation and understanding. So, yeah, that's the primary takeaway, I think, for a lot of people and for me is just like, it helps people and that's important.
- [28:37]
B
I love that. And I have found that on the flip side, as a therapist, being very open and very real about things going on in my own life has also, I think, helped me to make better relationships with the people that I'm working with. I'm not some stand back, standoffish, you don't get to know about me person. I like to be open. I like to let people know what's happening. I like to make jokes, too. And, you know, we. We laugh in our therapy sessions all the time and have fun. And I find that that is so helpful because people really feel like they're talking to a real person and not just paying for this service for an hour from. From a robotic kind of experience.
- [29:18]
A
Right.
- [29:18]
B
I love that.
- [29:20]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's the best. And so I think this, yeah, this show has meant, like, so much to me, and I think. I think it's meant something to some other people. I've had a lot of people from OCD support groups come, but a lot of therapists come, so that's cool. It's cool to be like, wow, people are hearing about this and they're interested.
- [29:37]
B
Where is the show? When do you do it. You know what, Tell us about that.
- [29:40]
A
Yeah, so it just actually I finished a three week long run at a place called Soho Playhouse in New York, and I still sort of like sporadically will probably keep doing it. There might be another life. I've kind of been performing this for like five years. So when there's, you know, this was kind of like the big culmination, but they're, you know, there's, there's talk about a potential other life for it. So I'll, I'll, I'll keep everybody posted. But yeah, and you know, and I'll probably continue to bring it back as I feel, you know, as I feel like I want to or that the people need it or whatever.
- [30:11]
B
But yeah, yeah, I've, I've had the opportunity on some other OCD shows to even go up on stage afterwards and do like a Q and A with the person and the audience. It's been really fun. So if you're in the Midwest, let me know. I would love to partner with someone. That would be so much fun.
- [30:28]
A
If anyone wants me to bring it anywhere, I will, I will go there. So, yeah.
- [30:36]
B
Now there's the comedy piece, but, you know, you're, you do acting. There's writing, there's producing, there's directing, there's all these things that get involved, of course, in show business. And so how does OCD play a role in all of those different areas? Right. And how does it try to be like, oh, we can screw with Olivia today, like this?
- [30:58]
A
Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think honestly my OCD affects my writing so much and has my entire, like. I think I'm still on a journey with realizing the sort of interaction between my creativity and my ocd, specifically when it comes to the writing component. You know, I was, from a young age, I was, you know, there's so, so much like perfectionism to the point where my parents were like, maybe we need to send you to a school where there are like, great no grades and just like, you know, just like picking flowers because I was so intense.
- [31:35]
B
But then you'd have to pick the best flowers of everybody. Yes, exactly.
- [31:40]
A
You know, and I think when I was younger there was a lot of fear, you know, of missing anything when I was writing about something, of missing a piece of information, excluding anything, not the whole picture. And I would sort of like excessive. I would write answers to the point of like, you know, I'd write a four page answer and my teacher would be like, just write a paragraph. Like, seriously, just write a paragraph. I don't want you to write all this. And I'd still write so much. This is like so much fear of, like leaving something out. And then as I started to get a bit older, I think I started to become way more avoidant because I, like, actually in college, I, like, didn't really go to the library at all. I had a really hard time using sources because I had this fear that if I engaged with sources, there would never be an end to the information I could find and the process would just never stop. And so I would try and limit the content and the sources I engaged with because I was so afraid of this never ending process of writing this paper. And yeah, I had no understanding sort of of what was going on at the time, except that I was just like, I didn't understand that that was a form of avoidance.
- [32:54]
B
Sure.
- [32:56]
A
And that was really hard. Like, writing was very, very painful. And so cool that now I, like, do that professionally. Yeah, sure. Yeah.
- [33:06]
B
And so hardest thing of my life. Let's do this.
- [33:09]
A
Right, Right. What could I, how can I. As challenging as possible. Yeah, that's totally my vibe sometimes. But yeah, you know, and so as I've started to write, you know, as a, as, as I became more creative and a professional and, you know, I've written short films. I had a short film go to Tribeca, which was very exciting. I wrote this show. I write comedy for my comedy shows, like, kind of figuring out what works and in terms of just like, Olivia, let yourself write and be creative and not feel like you're policing so much of the process. Like, that's a constant exploration and things I'm trying to find strategies for all the time, especially because, you know, I have, like, and I don't know if this is some form of sort of like, you know, perfectionism meets responsibility, ocd, but like, and I have a huge fear of misrepresenting anything or any kind of inaccuracy in my writing. And so a lot of the time I'll have to push past that and be like, you can go back. And even writing my show, I was like, how many times have I gone through my show to make sure that, like, I'm not in any way misrepresenting ocd. And so it's like, yeah, I, I, it's incredibly challenging to engage with my writing. And I'm always kind of trying to push myself differently because different things tend to come up the more I do it.
- [34:39]
B
Yeah, I thought if, if OCD had a theme song, it would be from the Greatest Showman Never Enough?
- [34:44]
A
Yeah.
- [34:47]
B
Just never enough for me. You know, I need to. Just a little more research, but I. But I have to watch my sources as I research this too.
- [34:56]
A
It's just exactly right. And then it's like, now I'm not actually not going to do any of it or engage with any of it because all of this is too overwhelming to even contend with, you know, and it's like, don't do that well.
- [35:06]
B
And that brings up what I also wanted to ask. Was there ever a flip side where procrastination then comes in because it's just easier to not do it than it is to have to do it and then research it and think about it and all those things?
- [35:19]
A
Totally. Yeah. College was a huge time of procrastination. Even high school, actually. There was a lot of, like, waiting to the last minute to do my homework. I think eventually what I realized was I cared. I would. I would wait. I would wait and then realize I didn't do as good of a job as I wanted to. And then, of course, you know, the flip side of that was like. Or like the fear in the moment was again, like, I'll never stop. I'll never be able to stop because there's always going to be too much to cover. But it's sort of like I have had to train myself out of that fear and out of the procrastination because I do care. I want to do a good job job, you know, and so sort of holding that reality and then also being like. But a good job doesn't have to be perfect. And a good job can look like something that you. It can look like something different from what you once thought it was, is again, a constant sort of negotiation and a journey. But the procrastination stuff, I've definitely moved past that a little bit because I'm also like, Olivia, if you've chosen to be a professional writer, like, you gotta enjoy it. That's ostensibly why you're doing it. And so right now, yeah, what I tend to struggle with a lot is, like, I do a lot of thinking about when and what I'm going to write, and then sort of reviewing, like, reviewing, like, my schedule and my plan for that. And I'll find myself getting stuck in that cycle of like, oh, no, you'll do it at this time. Oh, you'll do it at this time. Oh, no, maybe you want to do the other project. And right now then I'm sort of like, you know what? That's not doing anything. Either do the writing or don't do it right now, but you're not going to spend time thinking about it. So, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at.
- [37:01]
B
I'm assuming there's a lot of stories written. There's a lot more stories up there in the noggin of yours rolling around. How do you decide which ones go where and when you're ready to reveal one of them? Because some might still feel a little too personal at this point, but in a year from now, you might be ready. So what. What is your process for really making those decisions about when to reveal what to people?
- [37:26]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting in terms of. I think I'm going to answer that in two parts. One, at this point, there are sort of not many stories that I'm unwilling to tell. Okay. And so I think, like, when it, like, I'm pretty much an open book, and I really think I did sort of pendulum from that time in high school where I was so ashamed of everything that was happening to, like, I will tell you anything and everything. But in terms of, like, choosing what stories go down on the page in general, I do think that's, again, something that interacts a bit interestingly, sort of with my OCD or just obsessionality in general, which is sort of like, I can get so you know, almost fixated or caught up with one story in a moment and then kind of easily abandon it. And that could be a, you know, many. Due to many factors, but I'm kind of trying to. I'm playing around a lot with my writing process right now because I'll tend to work on many stories at a time and worry that I can't choose. And. And what I've learned over time is the choice kind of naturally comes to me, whether it be or maybe doesn't come to me, but like, a project picks me no matter what. So whether it's. I'm working on a couple of things and one someone else is more interested in, then I roll with that, you know, or like. So, again, I'm trying to trust a little bit more that, like, I might have a lot of ideas and projects that I'm working on, and I'm allowed to work on a few things and kind of. There will always sort of be a more natural course when it comes to what is going to take. What is going to take, you know, what is going to be my priority in a moment. So definitely trying to incorporate trust into my process a lot more, which is always challenging, but important.
- [39:11]
B
Yeah, OCD loves trust, right?
- [39:13]
A
Of course. Exactly.
- [39:18]
B
Are there areas then that you really look forward to now? Because sometimes I think OCD can remove your joy and looking forward to the future because all you see is there's just going to be more compulsions. What, on the flip side of things now, are you excited about and look forward to. To doing in the future that maybe even a few years ago you were like, I don't know if I could ever go there.
- [39:44]
A
Yeah. Oh, that's. That's really interesting. I think that, honestly, like, my relationship to sexuality and sex, like, continues to evolve because there was so much shame around that for so many years. I think, like, there's still some residual stuff there where I've, like, limited myself or decided certain things are okay or not okay in the realm of, like, even just having sex or. Or thinking about sex that now I'm sort of like, nothing's. I mean, beyond things that are literally illegal or make up comfortable, of course, like, nothing is. Things aren't just okay or not okay. And you can explore what you like and what makes you happy. You know, I spent so much time worrying about infecting people or that I was dirty. It's just like, that continues to be a realm that I explore with a lot more joy and curiosity than I used to. And that feels exciting and, like, it's been a long journey because, again, I think there are some times where I'm like, I don't realize something has to do with my OCD until a bit later. You know, sometimes I think it. The sex stuff, it had to do just with the queerness or it had to do with whatever partners I was with. And so it's always interesting to have, like, a little bit of distance and a little perspective and be like, oh, that might have had to do with some of the OCD stuff. And this is how I can sort of address it going forward. So, yeah, I think I have, and I do have exciting around my writing a lot more and making that a joyful. Making those processes joyful. And also, especially because I do think my show has resonated with a lot of people and people responded really well. Like, you know, I am a big reassurance seeker, and I. That's also been a big part of my journey with OCD and not needing that. But of course, sometimes having external validation of, like, your stuff's good and it's resonating is nice. So it's like, having that as a motivator and being like, oh, maybe I'm an okay writer, it makes me feel a little bit More like I can explore this and play around as opposed to like thinking of it as this scary thing where I'm going to have to deal with like, oh, am I going to say something wrong or am I going to mislead someone or am I going to get canceled because I've said something? You know, that's a lot less a part of my process now and that's exciting for me.
- [42:11]
B
Awesome. Well, I'm excited for you and your future and hope that we could share that stage idea one day. I think that that would be. Yeah, I'd love that to be able to be do that with you and, and help again, educate more people like we always try to do here through the podcast. So thank you for being with us today, Olivia. Where can people find you and info about you and all that? Where, where should they go?
- [42:34]
A
Totally. Well, I'm always. I'm a big Instagrammer, so @olivia levine19 is my Instagram, where I'm always sort of advertising my comedy shows and whenever I'm doing my show unstuck. And then olivia-levine.com is my website, which also stays pretty up to date and kind of has more of my work on it. Yeah, those are the two primary ways to find me.
- [42:56]
B
Olivia Levine, thank you so much for being here today and for your work in the OCD community. Anything to help reduce stigma is appreciated and you are on some of the forefront of doing that and I really appreciate it personally and professionally. So thank you.
- [43:11]
A
Thank you for having me. It's a bit. Definitely a big honor to be here and yeah. Because I know the work that you guys, you guys do some really cool stuff and I'm just glad to have been asked on the podcast.
- [43:22]
B
Awesome. And thank all of you for watching the get to Know OCD podcast. If you're looking for help for OCD or related conditions, check us out@nocd.com that's nocd.com and if you like the podcast well, you can subscribe to the NOCD YouTube channel where you will get lots of content and education about ocd, including the podcast. Or you could subscribe wherever you get your favorite favorite podcast as well. Until next time, be better to yourself than your OCD ever has been. We'll see you soon.