Podcast Summary: Get to Know OCD – "The Film That Captures How OCD Really Looks"

Host: Dr. Patrick McGrath (Chief Clinical Officer, NOCD)
Guest: Sam Sapawi (Film Producer, Director of For All I Know)
Date: February 19, 2026

Overview

This episode centers on the short film For All I Know, an innovative portrayal of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) by filmmaker and advocate Sam Sapawi. Dr. Patrick McGrath and Sam discuss the film's genesis, its aim to authentically depict the internal struggles of those living with OCD, and the broader effort to destigmatize this misunderstood condition. They delve into key film scenes, highlight the importance of accurate mental health representation, and reflect on the impact such portrayal has on audiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Motivation Behind the Film

• Personal Connection:
  • Sam, diagnosed with OCD at age 12, explains the drive to use storytelling for both self-expression and social impact.
  • "If there's a way for me to make an impact in the OCD community, I'm going to use my skill set... to kinda help change the narrative." (Sam Sapawi, 01:46)
• A New Lens on OCD:
  • Existing films focus on compulsions; For All I Know prioritizes internal experiences—intrusive thoughts, uncertainty, and emotional distress.

2. Portraying the Inner Experience of OCD

• Externalizing Intrusive Thoughts:
  • The film puts viewers "inside [the character’s] head," letting them see and hear intrusive thoughts as people with OCD experience them.
  • "It feels like the only way to truly communicate the horrific struggle that happens within a person's mind who lives with OCD." (Sam Sapawi, 04:14)
• Goal for OCD and Non-OCD Audiences:
  • Non-OCD viewers can better understand the genuine terror of intrusive thoughts.
  • For those with OCD, the film provides solidarity: "I'm not alone."

3. The Significance of the Title: For All I Know

• Embodying Uncertainty:
  • The title reflects OCD’s pursuit of certainty and the challenge of living with doubt.
  • "For all I know, this could be true. For all I know, that could be true... nothing we know is certain." (Sam Sapawi, 06:04)
• ERP and Uncertainty:
  • Title connects to Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), treatment rooted in embracing uncertainty.

4. Authenticity in Performance

• Actor Preparation:
  • Actress Rachel Alec immersed herself in lived experiences, displaying both the intellectual and emotional components of OCD.
  • "She internalized... reading stories of those living with OCD, but then not intellectualizing it too much." (Sam Sapawi, 09:14)
• Conveying Agony Over ‘Quirks’:
  • The film moves past stereotypes or 'quirkiness' and highlights the agony and grief of OCD.

5. Exploring Key Scenes from the Film

a) The Battle with Intrusive Thoughts (Pharmacy Scene)

• [14:17-16:32]
• Sandra, the pharmacist, grapples with unbidden violent thoughts:
  • "I'm really not a bad person. I just have bad thoughts... You can't tell me you haven't thought about pushing someone in front of the A train..." (Sandra, film character, 14:17)
• Host Reflection:
  • The struggle is between being "a bad person" and having bad thoughts—central to many with OCD.
  • Sam notes: "OCD loves that gray area... a question that doesn't have an answer that's very clear." (17:21)
• Values & Shame:
  • Sandra's intrusive thoughts attack her values: being caring and responsible.

b) Catastrophizing & Compulsions

• Obsessive doubts drive her to repeatedly redo tasks (e.g., repackaging medication)—common OCD behaviors.

c) The 'Am I a Bad Person?' Spiral

• [21:37-24:15]
• A passing thought (pushing someone) triggers an internal crisis; Sandra can't be certain she isn't bad.
  • "Am I a bad person? I guess I can't be certain." (Sandra, 21:50)
• Therapeutic Observation:
  • Dr. McGrath: "OCD will want to know all the answers... and give you a final grade of 'did you pass?' as being a good person." (23:32)

d) Parental OCD: The Fear of Harming a Child

• [28:54-33:07]
• A pivotal scene: Sandra avoids holding her baby out of fear she might harm her, despite desperately wanting to connect.
  • "I don't know what I'm capable of doing, Thomas. I don't... I don't know what I'll do to her." (Sandra, 29:21)
• Misunderstood Experience:
  • Dr. McGrath shares clinical anecdotes: Parents may avoid contact with their children for months due to intrusive harm fears, not lack of love.
  • Sam: "You can see it... how terrorized she is of herself, with the hope of protecting that baby." (33:20)

6. Debunking Stigma and 'Just Stop Thinking That'

• Not a Volitional Choice:
  • Telling someone with OCD to "just stop thinking that" is dismissive and futile.
  • "You can't tell someone to stop thinking of something... even someone not living with OCD." (Sam, 27:16)
  • OCD thoughts are intrusive, unwanted, and sticky.

7. Impact and Reception of the Film

• Audience Reactions:
  • Screened at the Cleveland International Film Festival (and others), For All I Know has drawn praise from viewers who saw their own or loved ones' experiences reflected.
  • Winning festival awards is "in service of getting the film more eyeballs because we need to change the narrative around OCD." (Sam, 37:59)

8. Calling Out Media and Language Stigma

• Problematic Casual Usage:
  • Both note the frustration at OCD being trivialized in media (e.g., "obsessive camping disorder" shirts), reinforcing misconceptions.
  • "Nobody celebrates having OCD... what might seem like a passing remark... to someone else means the world." (Sam, 39:31)

9. Message of Hope and Recovery

• Key Takeaways for Viewers:
  • OCD is treatable.
  • "You're not your thoughts... The content is just noise. It doesn't define you." (Sam, 41:06)
  • Recovery means accepting uncertainty and choosing to live anyway.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Externalizing Intrusive Thoughts:
  "The only way to do that is to actually externalize those intrusive thoughts so those not living with OCD can feel the same terror..." — Sam Sapawi [04:14]

• On the Core Struggle:
  "Am I a bad person? I guess I can't be certain." — Sandra (character), [21:50]

• On Treatment Realities:
  "The goal is you can learn to handle the discomfort. And that's what ERP does." — Dr. Patrick McGrath paraphrased by Sam Sapawi [41:06]

• On the Impact of Stigma:
  "Nobody celebrates having OCD... what might seem like a passing remark to you, to someone else means the world." — Sam Sapawi [39:31]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Guest Introduction & Film Motivation: 00:47–03:36
• Externalizing Intrusive Thoughts: 03:36–05:53
• Significance of the Film Title: 05:53–07:39
• Casting and Portraying Authentic OCD: 08:04–13:41
• Pharmacy Intrusive Thoughts Scene: 14:17–18:44
• Discussion on 'Am I a Bad Person?': 21:37–24:15
• Parental OCD Scene: 28:54–33:07
• Audience Impact and Film Festivals: 36:01–38:32
• Media Stigma and Trivialization: 38:32–40:25
• Sam's Closing Words and Hope: 40:43–42:25

Final Thoughts & Where to Watch

• Watch For All I Know:
  • Available on Healthline’s YouTube channel and Healthline.com.
• Message for Those with OCD:
  • OCD is treatable–you are not your thoughts, and recovery is possible through acceptance and evidence-based treatment like ERP.
• Call to Action:
  • Amplifying accurate depictions and discussions is essential for changing public understanding and reducing stigma.

Relevant Quote to Close:
"Be better to yourself than your OCD ever would be." — Dr. Patrick McGrath [42:48]

This episode is a must-listen for those wanting a compassionate, realistic insight into OCD and the powerful ways storytelling can drive empathy and social change.