It’s on Us (Feat: Nedra Glover Tawwab)

Summary

Gettin’ Grown – “It’s on Us” (Feat: Nedra Glover Tawwab) – June 2, 2026

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of Gettin’ Grown, hosts Kia and Jade welcome back renowned therapist and author Nedra Glover Tawwab to the Kitchen Table. Their conversation centers on building healthier relationships, the importance of true connection (versus just contact), and navigating self-care as Black women in adulthood. Nedra shares practical tools from her new book, The Balancing Act, discussing how to find balance between independence and healthy dependence, especially in a society that glorifies hyper-independence. The episode also dives into redefining boundaries, understanding attachment, combating loneliness, and creating intentional connections across family and community.

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Episode Highlights

1. Kitchen Table Catch Up: Black Nostalgia and Sisterhood

[01:11 – 14:24]

• Jade and Kia reminisce about high school talent show moments, graduation celebrations, and iconic Black joy—like the lasting legacy of a girl named Marcia and her olive green Wallabees.
• They highlight the importance of celebrating Black culture, family, and friendships through “loud” support at graduations and group chats obsessing over which shoes to wear—a humorous yet loving reflection on community.

Memorable Quote:

“You know we made graduation so much fun they started trying to minimize fun—‘Don’t dance across that stage!’”
– Kia [05:37]

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2. Real Talk: Life Updates and Emotional Check-ins

[10:09 – 14:44]

• The hosts open up about personal stress, loss, and the difficulty of navigating change—family illness, loss of elders, and the transition of selling a “family hub” home.
• Jade points out the importance of minding her body and listening to signs of stress:

“I know I’m dealing with some…because my cycle came a whole 8 days early. This is how I know my body is holding a lot of things.”
– Jade [12:16]

• The need for intentional Black woman self-care and honest breaks is emphasized, as is the importance of communal healing and rest.

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3. Setting the Stage: Welcoming Nedra Glover Tawwab

[14:44 – 22:36]

• Kia and Jade introduce Nedra as the "boundary baddie extraordinaire," relationship expert, and beloved repeat guest.
• Nedra discusses how tending to her plants and garden helps her ground joy in daily life—a metaphor for nurturing relationships and finding beauty amid chaos.

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4. Conversation Deep Dive: Redefining Connection and Building Healthy Relationships

A. Terms & Labels in the Age of the Internet

[22:36 – 28:55]

• Nedra clarifies common therapy buzzwords—codependency, boundaries, gaslighting, narcissism—and emphasizes the dangers of mislabeling:
  • Labels can be helpful for treatment, but are often used too loosely online, risking misunderstandings and hurt.
  • Instead of fixating on labels, focus on practical behaviors and context.

“Categorizing is not always helpful…when we look at these words, it’s hard to for sure say, ‘yep, that’s depression. Yep, that’s anxiety.’”
– Nedra [24:24]

B. The Spectrum of Dependence & Independence

[30:50 – 32:53]

• Key concept from Nedra’s new book: The balancing act between dependence and independence.
  • Nobody is “fixed” as hyper-independent or codependent—you can change.
  • Healthy adulting means recognizing when and how to lean on others appropriately.
  • “You’re not stuck there…you’re not stuck with an attachment style.”
    – Nedra [30:50]
  • Connection is essential; genuine connection (not just many acquaintances or online friends) prevents loneliness and promotes mental health.

C. Modern Disconnection & Loneliness

[32:53 – 41:10]

• Discussion on how technology, generational differences, and skepticism about safety have made meaningful connection more difficult.
• Both social media and urban living encourage surface-level interaction rather than deep bonds.

“People are becoming more isolated and more individualistic—like, ‘I don’t need people for anything.’”
– Nedra [40:58]

• The importance of reaching out in community, even with “casual” relationships (baristas, neighbors, mail carriers).

D. Why is Connection So Challenging? (Especially for Men)

[44:44 – 55:06]

• Exploration of loneliness, especially for men:
  • Societal scripts about masculinity can hinder vulnerability and emotional support between men.
  • Women often have richer communal networks and can reach deeper emotional intimacy—men may rely solely on their romantic partner for support.
  • Both men and women contribute to this dynamic—women may restrict men to emotional boxes as well.
• Practical advice for building connection: Both parties have to be open to giving and receiving support, sharing vulnerability, and being intentional.

Memorable Moments:

“Relationships, all…healthy relationships will require inconvenience…You have to break a fingernail sometimes or offer some sacrifice.”
– Nedra [59:34]

“You have too many ‘I don’t want to dos’ to want connection.”
– Nedra [60:10]

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5. Attachment, Boundaries, and Social Styles: Breaking Down the Myths

[66:04 – 73:10]

• Nedra gives clinical definitions of introvert, extrovert, and ambivert:
  • It’s about how you recharge, not who you interact with or whether you like people.
  • Introverts may have deep but fewer connections and need solo time to recharge; extroverts thrive on group interactions.
• Many people misattribute social anxiety or lack of connection to introversion instead of recognizing unaddressed needs or skills in forging relationships.
• Accept people’s preferences—don’t take it personally. Adapt and build community based on understanding different needs.

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6. Family, Grief, and the Dynamics of Togetherness

[73:10 – 83:34]

• Jade candidly discusses shifting family dynamics after the loss of an elder, the “family hub,” and how contact does not always mean connection.
• Nedra’s advice: Don’t let perfection or consensus stall gatherings—plan what you can, let whoever can attend show up, and don’t overcomplicate the process.

“The culture has to continue. [When the matriarch passes] she died, but she didn’t take the culture with her.”
– Nedra [82:58]

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7. Key Takeaways from The Balancing Act

[83:47 – 84:32]

• Nedra’s message: Be the change you want in your relationships. Seek out deeper connections yourself; don’t wait for other people to do it for you.

“With relationships, if you want deeper connection, you will have to seek it out. You will have to be willing to connect. You have to sit in some discomfort. And for some of us, that’s so tough...but it’s also very rewarding.”
– Nedra [83:51]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I think sometimes we get so caught up in contact...but contact doesn’t equal connection.” — Jade [75:31]
• “Every relationship you have doesn’t need to be close, but something connective about going to that local coffee shop and Janine is often your cashier…all you need from her is to know when the concerts are coming. That’s your concert connect.” – Nedra [38:05]
• “Healthy relationships will require inconvenience.” – Nedra [58:22]
• “You’re not stuck with an attachment style...You’re not stuck with being codependent. You’re not stuck with being independent.” – Nedra [30:50]
• “We do isolation well, but connection is what really requires effort.” – Kia [59:34]
• “Both introverts and extroverts like people. It’s how you recharge.” – Nedra [66:45]

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Special Segments

Graduation Announcements

[88:12 – 106:26]

• Heartwarming, listener-submitted celebrations of academic achievements—highlighting the “village” that helps Black families thrive.

Black Woman Self-Care Check-In

[106:34 – 115:20]

• Jade and Kia share honest reflections on needing breaks and protecting their time—sometimes even with a “fake out-of-office.”
• Self-care is also found in familial connections (wearing grandma’s shirt, thrifting with children).

Petty Peeves

[116:07 – End]

• Comedic grievances about everyday annoyances, crowdsourced from listeners—reminding everyone it’s okay to vent about the little things.

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Final Thoughts & Resources

• Take Ownership: The path to deeper relationships starts with being intentional and occasionally uncomfortable.
• Small Steps Matter: Connection happens as much through casual “weak ties” as through close friendships.
• Practice Self-Care: Celebrate yourself, draw boundaries, and find joy in everyday life—even in olive green Wallabees and family traditions.

Find Nedra Glover Tawwab online and grab The Balancing Act for practical, culturally-rooted tools on thriving in relationships—without losing yourself.

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Resource Links & Further Learning

• Nedra Glover Tawwab: Instagram, Website
• The Balancing Act: Available wherever books are sold

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For more Black woman self-care, sisterhood, and lessons in adulting, tune in weekly to Gettin’ Grown.

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Summary Prepared by Podcast Summarizer AI | Original episode language and tone preserved | June 2026

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

Wasn't that delicious?

[Jade]

So good.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Your bill, ladies.

[Jade]

I got it. No, I got it.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Seriously, I insist.

[Jade]

I assisted first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly. People with the Wells Fargo active cash credit card prefer to pay because they

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases.

[Jade]

Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

No.

[Jade]

The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.comActiveCash terms apply.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Jade]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Kia]

Came unannounced. This feeling I feel for you. I had to know.

[Jade]

Go on.

[Kia]

Not through your words. But the way that you looked at me Told me Just help how much you really care. So don't you try to hide your feelings. Cause it's so very plain to see. Forever in your eyes. Just let your heart. It's easy. Guide you. Guide you to love Infinity. Forever in your eyes. Forever in your eyes. And then, you know. Saxophone breakdown, that is. Do you know. Wait. Do you know who that is?

[Jade]

I have no idea.

[Kia]

I had a feeling.

[Jade]

I don't know why.

[Kia]

I just know when you.

[Jade]

I'm so sorry.

[Kia]

No, it's not. It's not you. It's me. You know what I'm saying? Because I like a B side, that is Mint conditions.

[Jade]

Oh, yes.

[Kia]

Forever in your eyes. Shout out to Stokely. Yeah. You know I love me some mint condition.

[Jade]

I, I, I too, have a fond appreciation for mint condition. There was this group of guys in high school that used to sing mint condition songs at the assemblies.

[Kia]

I love it. Yes. Very East.

[Jade]

Very black. Very black. Very east side high, Right? Very East High. And I'm trying to think, what was it? They had another big song that was like.

[Kia]

There was pretty brown eyes. You sent me swinging forever. I don't know. Forever in your eyes was a big song.

[Jade]

I just remember some. They sung one song, and there was this one girl who got on stage and, like. And like. I don't know.

[Kia]

Lil Mama?

[Jade]

Huh?

[Kia]

Oh, sorry. Is she Lil Mama? I don't.

[Jade]

It was kind of like that. She kind of just hopped on the stage and sort of made herself the love interest in the performance. And all the teachers. All the teachers were melting down. I'll never forget it. We were just walking on stage and being kind of, you know, sensuous.

[Kia]

And we were all icon.

[Jade]

Exactly. And we were all like screaming and losing it. And all the teachers were like, oh, my God. Like they were just losing.

[Kia]

That girl got up there, said. And Tasha.

[Jade]

Exactly.

[Kia]

Cleveland.

[Jade]

She like, I'll never forget it. She had on some. Some olive green wallabies. I can see Olive screaming.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yes.

[Jade]

Her name was Marcia. I. I mean, she.

[Kia]

I mean, perfect. Oh, it would be a bitch. They Marcia Hoop do some shit like that too.

[Jade]

Oh my God. And all the entire administration within.

[Kia]

That's the era of the video of what I'm saying. That's what I didn't want to say video. Like, she made herself love interest.

[Jade]

Yeah. Because it wasn't. And she did not do anything, like, scandalous. Like, it was not, like, loose.

[Kia]

She said, I'm living out of fantasy.

[Jade]

Like, she was like, bitch, I am me along. And all five of these niggas are

[Kia]

singing to me and they. I'm scre.

[Jade]

And they were right. As soon as.

[Kia]

As soon as she jumped on stage,

[Jade]

they all just like, you know, croo. And I never. She had on a green shirt and some jeans and some olive green wallabies. And I just remember her being a legend in that way.

[Kia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jade]

And it was a m. Think of the name. But it was a mint condition song that they were singing. I was just like, it wasn't. It wasn't.

[Kia]

It wasn't Pretty Brown Eyes.

[Jade]

It might have been.

[Kia]

It might have been Pretty Brown Eyes. Yes.

[Jade]

You know, but.

[Kia]

Sorry. Okay.

[Jade]

I just remember being like. And I was young. I was like in the ninth grade, just all of 12 years old. Like, oh, my God.

[Kia]

Like, just as hilarious.

[Jade]

Losing it and like rushing home to like, tell my grandma and grandma being like, that was completely inappropriate. It was. It was like, remember when they.

[Kia]

You see how we made graduation so much fun that they start trying to minimize fun? They'd be like, don't dance across this stage.

[Jade]

Oh my God. First of all, eighth grade graduation. I thought for sure that they were going to rip my diploma in half. The way that those niggas carried on. There was a.

[Kia]

They canceled ours.

[Jade]

So they. My aunt. My aunt. Shout out to aunt. First of all, Aus. Both of us, we have very. We. We. We are very loud. But so she was in full on, you know, human bullhorn form. But she also. There was a. There was a white family sitting in front of. Of where they were Sitting at the Westchester County Center. And they had one of those air horns. Yeah, Office got that little white boy to do that air horn. And they carried on so bad that the administrator said, y' all are going to have to sit down. We're not calling any more names until you shut up. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm not going to get my diploma because my family. Because my family is carrying on.

[Kia]

Look at them just. Well, y' all better be happy that the graduation didn't allow. Crystal's graduation didn't allow for me to wear the tambourines on my shoes because I was ready in full effect.

[Jade]

I was just telling Crystal I was so mad that I was sick and I missed graduation because, you know that I was going to wear a church hat.

[Kia]

Oh, see, I had tampered.

[Jade]

I planned to wear a church hat.

[Kia]

She was like, they will not let you in. So I just didn't take the chance because I was up there like a single mother. It was just me because it was the middle of the week. And when they held her name, I

[Jade]

swear, I was like. As soon as she sent the announcement, I was like, girl, you know, I'm wearing a church hat. I'm coming to the. To the graduation. I'm wearing my best church hat, okay?

[Kia]

And she was like, the people around me were disgusting. Disgusted. They were disgusted. I'm like, it's a one man bed here.

[Jade]

Mind your business. That's right. I'm going to lose it. Well, that's how we were when you graduated from culinary school. We were all watching on Zoom in our houses, like, yeah, I know.

[Kia]

That's right. Look, niggas better be happy. I didn't walk across the stage, cuz. I thought about it, but I had on a loafer. You did a green one.

[Jade]

I said, oh, yeah, a green one.

[Kia]

Like Marcia.

[Jade]

We had a lottery in the group chat. We was in the group chat trying to figure out which shoe wear. And Fran was like, she's gonna wear those loafers. Yeah.

[Kia]

They were like, it's gonna be a mule. It's gonna be a. I was like, it's gonna be a loaf.

[Jade]

I was. I was like, it's going to be a mule, guys. What?

[Kia]

J3, listen, you.

[Jade]

That.

[Kia]

You would have lost, but it would. It would have been a good bet, though, I'll tell you that. You know what I'm saying? On the mule.

[Jade]

So I know my sister. I'm gonna.

[Kia]

You know what I'm saying? I can't make a decision until it's time to Walk out the door, but it's going. One of those things. Or a sneaker. It's gonna be cool. Oh, no. I do do a cowboy boot as well every now and then. Combat boots.

[Jade]

Every now and again. But it was. It was kind of. It was. It was warm for a boot. It was warm.

[Kia]

It was warm for a boot.

[Jade]

Yeah, it was warm for. It was warmer.

[Kia]

And then, you know, I was like, do I want to be trekking through the city in my clogs? No. So I wore a loafer. It was a safe bet, you know, I was like, it's too fancy for us. Sneaker.

[Jade]

You know, cuz my sister love a low profile sneaker in an interesting colorway. That's j. A Very interesting. And un.

[Kia]

What do they call them? What are them? They're not. Not the as. Even though I do love a aick.

[Jade]

Especially Japanese sneakers.

[Kia]

The tiger ashwagandas is what I call them. Ashwagandhas. I love me a tiger ashwagandha. It's like.

[Jade]

It's like. It's definitely not ashwagandha, but I drink.

[Kia]

I love those sneakers. I always have. I've always loved a good boxing sneaker. Like you said, a good low profile situation. I think it's the Mexican in me. Honestly. That's probably what it is. I played football in another life. Better wear some pumas. It's gonna be exactly. Some Cortez's gonna be some Cortez.

[Jade]

A samba, you know? Yeah, yeah.

[Kia]

I do love a Cortez now. I love a Cortez.

[Jade]

Anyway, how are you doing, sister?

[Kia]

I'm. I'm doing all right. I was running from hither to thither. I've taught today.

[Jade]

All right. And educated me and the kids. Yes.

[Kia]

They're almost done with their podcast. Okay. And you know, just recording and. And know. And we. At the end of school, I always forget what time of year it is. I have to. Down to all the days. I won't have a loan for a few months.

[Jade]

You know, I'm praying for the parents. The parents are all. All of y' all are.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

There's. I don't know, there's like a spirit I think, you know, that everyone's sort of settling in to.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

You know, the season.

[Kia]

Yes. Summer is pawn. And it's already here for some because I have a couple friends that are like. I said something about school and they were like, she's still in school. I was like, yes, May.

[Jade]

Yeah. You know, like, especially like Atlanta and Tennessee. Like them kids been out.

[Kia]

Yeah. They're out, which is crazy to me. But then when they go back to school, I'd be like, damn, they're going

[Jade]

back to school already.

[Kia]

That's crazy. So, you know, we're just winding up for summertime and trying to figure out what we're gonna do and, you know, just trying to keep our heads in, you know, and in. In hell. How you feeling? How. What you got going on?

[Jade]

I'm okay. Since, you know, it's just a heavy season. I think I'm doing okay though. You know, it is heavy grief time. We're coming up on, you know, Brian's anniversary and, you know, we're just sort of moving through still all of the business of, Of. Of DDA and you know, this is just like, you know, the gravity of not having any grandparents is sitting with me. And also in like this transition, we sell in the house. I feel kind of like the family hub is going away.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

And it's just like lots of change going on at work. And, you know, my mom called me yesterday. She's not feeling well. Got some stuff going on. It's just like, I'm okay and I'm doing my best, but I will be alive. I know I'm dealing with some. I know I'm under stress because, you know, tmi, but you know, my cycle came a whole eight days early. So this is how I know my body is holding a lot of things.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

Not to. Not into my uterus, but, you know, just sharing.

[Kia]

I mean, listen, it is whatever we're shedding, you know what I'm saying? And we're gonna talk about it.

[Jade]

So. Yeah.

[Kia]

Oh, yeah. Your body's like, we gotta release something.

[Jade]

Yeah. It's like, what? Like. And I was just like, I felt, I didn't, I didn't feel it. But like, once I realized that's what it was, like, it made sense, you know, So I just have had like, I need a break and I need to figure out how to like, take a real one.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

Because I. I took a fake one today. I talk about that a little bit in my black woman self care. It was not. It was not a real break, but it was a fake one. But I need a. I need to really work in a real one. That's why I was telling you before, like, I want to come to New York. I can use some sister time.

[Kia]

Yeah. Come on.

[Jade]

Yeah, come on.

[Kia]

Yeah, we'll. We will love on you and hug on you and we'll eat food and drink wine and. Yeah, I will take edibles. And I'll roll up and, you know, and mind each other's business and it'll be.

[Jade]

It. It'll be nice.

[Kia]

Yeah. That's what.

[Jade]

It'll be nice.

[Kia]

That's what we're gonna do. Yeah. Well, speaking of minding business.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And setting boundaries and all things.

[Jade]

We all relate.

[Kia]

Relate relational things.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

We have the queen. Oh, yeah. The queen of a relationship existence is what I like to.

[Jade]

Yeah. Help.

[Kia]

I'll remix. Yeah.

[Jade]

All of that.

[Kia]

Boundary. Boundary baddie extraordinaire.

[Jade]

Okay. She's helping us negotiate all of the ways in which we relate to the people that we are called and connected to. We love it.

[Kia]

Yes. And very healthy manners. So you all stay tuned and grab your. Your snacks and your tea and all that good stuff because we about to have a good conversation with return E. Nedra Tawab.

[Jade]

Nedra Glover Toab. We're back to talk about her new book. The last one was about boundaries. This one is about healthy dependence in relationship. How to be in healthy relationship without losing oneself. Very important.

[Kia]

So all you FOMO ass niggas sit down and take part.

[Jade]

No. It's a good conversation, y'. All. It is.

[Kia]

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[Jade]

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[Kia]

don't care about her. Is this the third time that you.

[Jade]

I feel like it is. I feel like we had her. I feel like we've had her on to talk about all the books.

[Kia]

Wow.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Okay. I know it's. I know it's more than once.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Yes. Yeah. That is what I do know.

[Jade]

Welcome back. Welcome back.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Thank you for having me. Yes. Repeat guest. What an honor.

[Kia]

It's an honor for us when you all take your time to come back and sit with us and share your expertise and your energy with our audience because it resonates so much. How have you been since you've been here?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I have been. Well, I wouldn't say nothing new, but a lot of. A lot of growth. My plants are growing. My mind is growing. I've read new books, all the things. So, you know, life is. Life is good. I'm here. I am a plant lady. I am a gardener in my office. I probably have at least 20 plants around my office alone.

[Jade]

Come on. The air quality is probably amazing.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I don't know, because I'm burning candles too, so I might be. I might be canceling it out.

[Jade]

I got it.

[Kia]

It's fine.

[Paramount Plus Announcer]

We're good.

[Kia]

We're good.

[Jade]

Don't hurt nobody.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Plants. And then outdoors, I do some vegetables and I have a little pollination garden. I like to see the Birds and the butterflies, you know, so, yes, I'm

[Jade]

doing all the things so I can

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

bring the beauty right to my yard and be like, there's a red and there's a blue one, so.

[Kia]

Oh, I love that. To bring joy to yourself in these perilous.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah, I'm just gonna sit it and stare at a tree. So we have to do what we can. I'll just, I'll just stare at my little butterfly bush and, you know, try to forget the world.

[Jade]

I love that.

[Kia]

Yeah, that's. That's the best we can do.

[Jade]

Oh, absolutely. Period.

[Kia]

You're like, I can't fully sit on my ass. I gotta do a little bit of

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

something, but if I must get up,

[Kia]

it's gonna be to do that.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

Oh, sis, we should get into the book because you.

[Jade]

Yeah, I'm excited because I think one of the things that I have loved about your content, about your books, is that you have, you have helped us negotiate all of the words that the Internet throws at us.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Right.

[Jade]

So there are lots of things, words that continue to come up ad nausea and. Exactly. And you, you and your content really help to ground us in like actual evidence based definitions, clinical definitions, you know, you know, helping us to make sure that we are operating from a place of understanding. And I think that that is extremely valuable and was just curious just before we get into the specifics of this book, but is that something, Is that intentional in your, in your work? Is that like what you set out to do or is it just a function of. In your work? You have recognized that this is a need.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I think terms matter in terms and in the way of helping us understand who we are, understand other people. And categorizing. Right. Is not always helpful conversationally and it's not necessary for us to change our behavior. And so when we look at a lot of the terminology used on the Internet, codependency and you know, even boundaries or gaslighting and you know, just all of these words, I do wonder how we're using them and if it's actually useful, even with boundaries. You know, when I talk to my clients about boundaries, we don't say like, here's the boundary. You need to say upset. It's like, what do you need to do in this situation? What is the behavior that needs to be different? So in my mind, I know we're talking about boundaries and it might even say, on your treatment plan, we're working on building healthy boundaries. Boundaries at work.

[Jade]

Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

But we're not going to keep saying that B Word. We're going to talk about your boss, what you could do differently, what, what you might request of them. Some. What. We'll. We'll do a lot of other things, but the wording of it, you know, there's so much nuance there that when we look at these words, it's hard to for sure say, yep, that's depression. Yep, that's anxiety. And I think we do see a lot of that on the Internet because it's really easy to look at a listicle or diagnose someone else and say, hey, here's their thing, or here's that thing. When in actuality, we need to think about a fuller picture. Like, you know, what's going on in their environment, what is their evenings like, what are they eating sometimes? Also supportive relationships. Do they have. Is there some history there? Because I guess, you know, when I think about, like, narcissism, most people who experience a narcissist, that person is like that with multiple people. If I only experience it, is it possible that person is being mean? Is it possible that that person is being a jerk? And sometimes in some scenarios, people have other mental health things going on that might mimic some of those behaviors. And so, again, having a full picture around, like, what's happening here now, I've worked with narcissists, and yeah, they exist. They certainly, they certainly exist. But I'm saying that everything isn't that. And so we have to be careful around the labeling, not just with other people, but also with ourselves.

[Jade]

Else.

[Kia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I have a family member who is clinically diagnosed. And when I think about. And then, you know, they have a lot of other behaviors that have come along with that, drug usage and things, you know, things like that to cope. Right. And when I think about a lot of their behaviors within our family and also out in the world, I'm like, like you all use this real loosely because I don't think what it really means, really, really means. You know what I mean? There's a, there's an indifference there that is frightening at times. And I'm like, what your, what your boy is doing over here is not. Yeah, that is not what I've witnessed since 10 years old. So I, I agree with you. And I think. And we talked to Dr. Shantae last week and where she, where she was talking about behaviors. Yeah. And she's like, I like to talk about people's behaviors because we can put these buzzwords on things all day, but the behaviors always show. They always show their ass at One

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

point for therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists, we just have that because it's a certain way you're supposed to work with a person if. Right. So if you have a diagnosis of schizophrenia, there's a certain protocol I need to be mindful of as I'm working with you that isn't meant for, you know, everybody to go around calling somebody schizophrenic because you like, they. The lulu, they schizophrenic. It's like, oh, my gosh, we have.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Now how you working with that person.

[Jade]

Exactly?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You've run wild with the term. You know, so I see it a lot, I think, is, you know, there's a lot of mislabeling. And also it can be very helpful for people learning some things about themselves to go to a mental health space and say, hey, I was looking at this thing online and this is something that I didn't even consider that I could possibly have adhd. And to talk through that with a mental health professional, because it can be insightful to see, like, oh, I didn't realize that's what I was doing. I mean, I, I've, I've done that with medical things. You're watching the news sometimes and you're like, oh, that's what an allergy is. Here it was here I was thinking my lips were itching for no reason.

[Kia]

I know you're like, what was that?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You know, again, you want to get that second opinion and, and, and not be the expert in that scenario. But certainly there is, there is information to be had.

[Jade]

Yeah. I think access to information, I think sometimes can speed people along this, this pipeline of like, you know, just because you have access, like I have access to a hammer, don't mean I know how to use it. Right. Just because I can get the word. Just because I, I see a word I've heard other people handle. The word doesn't necessarily, or a concept doesn't necessarily mean that I know what it looks like in practice. So I think that's awesome advice in terms of, like, you know, we're going these. If this information, you know, through our news feeds, just throughout conversation, we're going to come into contact with terms and things that people are saying and talking about their own experiences. And it may not be that we need to start diagnosing ourselves, but to talk about the people who are in charge of our own care, like, you know, using it as a tool for asking questions. And I want to talk about the book. Right. Because I think what you have done with the Balancing act and just throughout your career. Like if we look at your books, they're all about relationships, but I feel like you empower us to negotiate them in a very specific way. And this one deals with understanding connection. Right. And thinking about, you know, the spectrum of dependency or independence and dependency along this continuum and it. About being about finding balance there. Right. Because I think we can often think about the static like I'm hyper independent and that's just it. But there are some relationships where I might not be or some interactions where I might be. So. So it's like having certain behaviors. So tell us a little bit about this work as a continuation or the, or the next phase of conversations that you've been having, you know, with your audience about relationships and the broad way that we can look at them and explore them.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah, well, it's in. It's important for people to know that you are not fixed. Whatever your dependency is, whether you're hyper dependent or hyper independent, you're not stuck there. You're not stuck with an attachment style, you're not stuck with being codependent, you're not stuck with being independent. But I think sometimes. Or hyper independent, but sometimes we feel like that is our identity. Right. And so a part of my work is to highlight. Well, it seems like you do have one relationship where you trust this person. You open up and I wonder if you're overworking that friend because you're not letting anyone else in because you're depending only on this friend. You're not letting any family in, you're not letting any partners in. But you do have one relationship where you are open to people getting to know you and you can ask and receive and all of those great things. So it's in you. How do we develop that skill in other scenarios? But what people will typically say is, in all relationships, I am X, Y, X, Y and Z. Right. I don't talk to women, I can't trust women. I don't do this because blank. And it really gets in the way of us being able to connect and to have those relationships that, that matter to us mentally. Because when we are without that connection, we feel lonely, we have more instances of depression, we have more anxiety around social connection. So it's really important to be able to have some relationships where you can be vulnerable, where you can trust the person and the person can trust you. It may not be every single relationship, but two or more is important. And what we're seeing now is people have all of these ways to socially connect, but they're not deeply connected in those experiences.

[Jade]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kia]

To the point where they can't socialize, they can't hold just a regular conversation, and it's a little frightening.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Oh, what are you saying? In the wild, what are you saying Was people not being able to hold comments.

[Kia]

I'm. You know, we talk about. We talk about, you know, I don't want to do the generational wars because it's not helpful. But also, they're not divorced.

[Jade]

Differences. It's real differences.

[Kia]

It's. It is vast differences. There's. They don't even greet anymore. Like, it's not even. They don't need the young people speaking. Hello. Yeah, hello. How are you? Actually, some of the older people now, too. I've made it. I'm very intentional when I walk down the street to speak to people.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Black people.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

But to see. I'm just gonna be honest. But very intentional about that. And so I know. And a lot of times, you know, you'll see. You'll see our people disarm a little bit, but. All right, you know, the head nod or whatever the case is. But I'm also seeing a lot of people with his heads down. They don't want to make eye contact. Yeah. Like, there's less. We're guarding social interaction.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Like, are they doing something on their phones?

[Kia]

Some are in their phones, and then some are just like, okay, I don't

[Jade]

want to do that. Yeah, yeah, that's. God. I think. I think. I think a lot of people and I think a lot of what's going on in our culture, in our society has put a lot of people on guard. There's not a lot of safety in. Sometimes I'm gonna sound crazy, but talking to strangers doesn't always feel, you know, it feels a little bit more risky than it used to, I think. So in certain spaces, I experience. Because I travel a lot for work, so just, you know, in and out of airports, in and out of hotels, and I think it's regional as well. But there are some spaces where if I'm walking in the airport, you see one. I grew up in a home where you see somebody, you look, you make eye contact, you acknowledge them. Whether you speak, you do the.

[Kia]

At least, you do the head nods.

[Jade]

You make the, like, how you doing? Face, even if you don't actually open your mouth and say it. But I have found that that doesn't happen as much or as frequently as it once did. I do think that phones and devices are a factor, but I. I definitely feel like, you know, you can feel it when somebody like you get this elevator and somebody put their head down. As in, don't talk to me. As in, I don't want to talk to neighbors.

[Kia]

Yeah, yeah. Some of my neighbors, we chat, right. We've been living in the building for a long, so we chat. Some other ones, I. I noticed when we. We got one neighbor, and they scurry every time you hear the door, they're like, you could hear. They'll leave their basket outside the apartment.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Filet worker. And you have to force the kindness on people.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

So it's a hello, regardless. If you looking or not. It's a hello. I want to make you look up. And if you don't look up, that's okay. It's not personal. They're in their phone if they are in that elevator with their head.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You know, we have to disarm people. And I think with this book, one of the things I talk about, we want it to be everybody else's job. We don't want to be the person to have to speak first. We don't want to be the person to have to initiate the planning of an activity with someone. It's like, well, nobody wants to do anything. What have you initiated? What are you encouraging? And so with. With the neighbor, you may have to go over and knock on that door, like, hey, I live across the street, or, hey, I live down the hall. I just want to say hi. And you know, if. If you see me outside, it's okay to wave. I'm friendly, or whatever that conversation is. I have so many wonderful stories about neighbors just for me, being friendly. I became friendly with. With a neighbor once because I was. I was single, and I like to bake cakes. I can't eat a whole cake. So you know what I would do? I would take half to the neighbor. Literally locked, knocked on her door. Hey, I baked a cake. I can't eat the whole thing. Do you want some? That's how our relationship started. And so whenever I would bake a cake, I just take the other half to her house. I could take a few pieces to work for my co workers, but I don't need no whole cake. Yeah, I just want to love it. Yeah. It's like I'm living the world with people. I can't be the only person who likes cake.

[Kia]

That's how I feel. That's why I speak to all of the black people that I see on the street. I'm like, I. We. We're gonna engage with one another, and you don't have to. But I'm going to speak to you because this is what we used to do. I'm gonna do my part. You. You speak about this in the book. Can you talk a little bit from a clinical level on why that is? I mean, obviously, we know our society has formed an energy of independence that's by design, but can you speak also from your experience on why people seem to be more of this way now and don't want to be connected to other humans in that way?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What we're seeing a little more of now is people having particular ways that they want to be treated, addressed, and responded to in relationships. And if it is not that, they discard everything and all or nothing. And so with my clients, very often we are talking about relationships at different levels. Every relationship you have doesn't need to be close, but it is something. Something connective about being able to go to that local coffee shop. And Janine is often your cashier, right? Because she tells you when the concerts are coming, you know, so we don't want to rule her out because she, you know, she's not a close friend or she don't like to do. It don't even matter. All you need from her is to know when the concerts are coming. That's your concert connect. So it's. It's okay to have these relationships at different levels with her friends, with our family. Everybody doesn't need to serve the same purpose in our life. We don't need a one size fits all person. But if you don't show up to something, you do want somebody to say, like, well, where is she?

[Jade]

Where is. Yeah, right.

[Kia]

Is she okay? Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I get a massage once a month by the same person. And when I do not go, I have gotten. We haven't seen you. What was. I was working. I was traveling a lot. I couldn't get here. Please call and check on me, okay?

[Kia]

Just in case.

[Jade]

It feels good, just in case.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

That is a part of being in a community and a collective. Like, when you're not around, you are missed. When you're not available, people are like, what. What happened to her? You don't want to be a person in a world that no one notices. So having those touch points, even something that seems as significant as a male person or the barista or your neighbor or the lady who, you know, walk past your house once a day when she going for a walk, whatever those things are, you know, those connections, they do matter. They do help you to feel seen. It provides some level of regularity. To our lives. And I think we are becoming more, more isolated and more individualistic. Like, I don't need people for anything. Well, who gonna bring your mail? Who gonna make your shirts? Where are you gonna get your groceries from? You do need people, truly, and we have to acknowledge this. We rely on people for everything. But, yeah, we don't want to admit it. It's like, well, I do everything myself. No, you don't. Not possible. Not possible now here in the Americas. You don't. Maybe in some other part, if you're here in the Americas, you're certainly not doing everything yourself. There are a lot of people contributing to, to who you are, and let's, let's, let's recognize that and invest into it.

[Jade]

Right? It's not something that happens accidentally or happens naturally or organic. Well, maybe that's not the way I want to say it, but you do have to be intentional about it. It's not going to happen by itself, so to speak. It's. I think, I think there's so much conversation right now around loneliness, male loneliness. Everybody's lonely. So what, what in your event, from your vantage, like, is there a connection there to this idea of, you know, being intentional about connecting with people and loneliness? This, this broader spectrum of how, how we relate to, you know, it seems very like common sense. There's a lot of things that we probably could point to and say, oh, well, yeah, it doesn't. It's not surprising that we're having these conversations about loneliness. But what would you say, like, how does the loneliness conversation fit here?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

With loneliness, there is a lack of connection that we want, so there's a bit of something missing. There's a void. Whether that is, we can't be honest, people aren't being honest with us. I have no things that people can understand. One of the things that makes us feel really connected is someone being able to relate to what we're saying. Someone being there in our moments of need without having to be there, but really being there because they want to support us. Someone being able to hold what we're discussing. And for many folks, they don't have that even if they have people. There is an absence of being able to show up and need things from other people. There are some people who are the, the, the sole provider of comfort to others. They are the sole provider of respect, you know, taking care of the family, or they are the responsible one or the one who seems to have it all together. It's so interesting. Now we're seeing more and more people who we think are strong quotes. We think they're strong because they can do all these things. They seem successful, blah, blah. And then years later, it's like, I was depressed the whole time. And we're like, yeah, exactly. We don't hold space for people like that. That when a person, you know, comes and they're talking about things, many folks will say, well, you can't have that issue because X, Y, and Z. I just finished reading this book. I think it's called Things we never say. I'm looking for the COVID Things We Never say. And the main character, he is lonely. And part of the reason that he is lonely because he finds out a secret that he can't tell anybody. Whenever he has an. An issue with something, people are like, oh, that's not that bad.

[Jade]

Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Instead of being supportive, loving, kind, they're like, that's not that bad. I have that too. And what we don't realize is even though we experience something the same as some or the same thing as someone else, we don't feel it in our bodies in the same way. We don't respond to it in the same way. So if someone is bringing something to you and, oh, that's not a big deal. I have kids too. Well, mine are stressing me out.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I don't need it. So that adds to the loneliness because this person is saying, I don't even understand what you're talking about. Exactly. We did a lot of that in. In conversations with our loved ones. And it's really unfortunate because all it does is suppress and shuts us down. And so then people are feeling like, well, I don't have anyone to talk to.

[Kia]

It's just. It is dismissive. Right.

[Jade]

Because it's not even judgmental.

[Kia]

Yeah. And judgmental. You're not even acknowledging the experience of this person before you shut it all the way down. Then of course, that. That's going to minimize connection. What is it with the men? I hate to do this, but I. The. The men I'm finding are. Okay, let me. Let me try to get my words together. I find that women, or. Excuse me, the women I know, the black women I know, we are very intentional about connection with one another. Right. In our village, in our community, I'm finding the men a little less so. And I. Maybe it is just the Internet, I don't know, or these different echo chambers, but they are lashing out. It feels as if, because they don't have these meaningful relationships or they're not being intentional with their meaning with their relationships. Right. Like, they know a lot of relationship building.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

This is what I think sometimes. Does relationship building with men collide with masculinity? Like some of the things that women would do to build relationships. Would your masculinity allow you to do some of those same things with your male friends? Or would it be like, I can't do that.

[Kia]

A lot of them know me and my homegirls literally got together and modeled panties. So we go. We put so much shout out to Dr. Wendy. She's coming out with period. Yes. And so we. Everybody represented different and we run it around. I realized I did have an out of body experience, not just them.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What would. What would. Would women say about it?

[Jade]

No, true.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What would women say about it?

[Kia]

Depending upon your background and how you.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

If men got together and was like, yeah, we was just modeling draws. We wanted to see what scams.

[Kia]

Look at you. All your dicks out. Like

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

new man.

[Jade]

Exactly. It's true.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

It's true. So much wrapped up in that. My. I have a friend who is gay and he always says, I'm so happy I'm not heterosexual. Because he gets to be like this version of a man that's he doesn't have to have all the masculinity stuff. He's like, I don't even have to do all that stuff. I'm so happy.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

Which is a boundary. Yeah. There are boundaries and limitations that we. In boxes, we're expected to fit in. That definitely matter now.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Call your friend and tell them you're a upset.

[Kia]

Or the trend online where they were all calling their homeboys and saying, I love you, good night. And then they want to see how the homeboys responded. Yeah.

[Jade]

But also sis, I think so in the book, you talk about. You talk about how connection is often fostered through like curiosity and asking questions. In my experience with some of the male relationships that I have, it takes a special kind of man to let you question them without feeling like you are attacking them or criticizing. Like, there's not a lot of space for that kind of curiosity where we could just like, you know, I could sit up and ask Jay any number of questions at any given time. It's not.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

And she would not think that I have an agenda outside of me. Just wanted to know. But in my.

[Kia]

I'm like, oh, my favorite color.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah.

[Jade]

Cerulean white sex.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I love that she asked me these questions.

[Jade]

Exactly.

[Kia]

I was like, God, she wants to know. Might meet intimately.

[Jade]

Right. With friendships and like relationships. Romantic like instances.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

It.

[Jade]

It gets to a point where it's like, why you ask me all these questions? It's like, well, I, I really just wanted to know.

[Kia]

Like, I'm trying to know you, like, what's your problem? And then you don't want to know no more.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

So it just creates a dynamic.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yes. And I think.

[Jade]

No, go ahead.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Men want connection. I think the road to getting there is just a little tougher. Their relationships are about sports. It's about the, the accomplishments I have, the possessions I own, the, the skills that I could do, I could kick higher. You know, I ran 10 laps, you ran five. Like, you know, those sort of things. But they have the same emotional needs that we have. I think sometimes there is just this barrier. And if the man himself doesn't have the barrier, do the, the men in his circle, what happens when he tries to break up things? Because there are men who are emotionally attuned and they want to talk about.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You know, like, my mom has cancer. I want to talk to my homeboys about that. And they, homeboys don't want to talk about that. They don't wanna, they don't want to sit there and support you and listen to this sad stuff during the playoffs. You know, they might. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. We take a shot and chill out.

[Kia]

Yeah, I'm getting, I'm getting money right now. I don't have time for that. It's true.

[Jade]

Listen, when you have had the privilege of being black for as long as I have, you know full well and have a lot of firsthand experience getting to know and love every aspect of your blackness and all the things that made you you. And it can be a journey because a lot of the things that are made in the world of hair and beauty are not necessarily made for us. And so a lot of us have had to learn to love our hair. And it's been a trial and error process. Right. But now that I feel like I found my rhythm. Oh, honey, we're only up from here. And recently basking lather has been a huge part of that process. I know that I'm a fine haired girly and have to be very careful about how I keep my hair moisturized because things can tend to weigh it down. And so I have really been enjoying the baskin leather hydrating mist. Not only is it a detangling spray, I like to use it as a moisturizer because it refreshes my hair as moisture without weighing it down because oils can do that as a fine hair, girly. So I've been enjoying that as well as the hair Elixir, which is the strengthening hair oil that also is not super greasy. Baskin Lather is hair care that started with family love. When a dermatologist misdiagnosed CEO Shayna's younger sister and said her hair may never grow back, the family took things into their own hands. Shana and her mother researched and formulated their own scalp and hair oil to stimulate growth and retain length. Today, her hair is down to her hips. Baskin Lather's Hydrating Hair Mask combines aloe vera and avocado oil to reduce frizz, treat dryness, detangle and redefine curls and their stimulating scalp and hair Bomb nourishes and hydrates hair from the inside out with 100% natural ingredients that can penetrate hair strands without clogging pores. When used regularly. Users have seen results in about 3 months. Explore Viral bestsellers and products of healthier hair for all types from Bask and Lather. Go to Baskin Leather and use the code grown for 20 off. That's 20 off at baskinlather co.com code

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[Jade]

What?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yes.

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[Jade]

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[Kia]

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[Kia]

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[Kia]

And also to your earlier point Netrail. I have a homegirl who. Her husband, he's been lonely for all intents and purposes, for some years now. Right. He lost his mother, all these things, and then some of his friendships just waned a little bit. And she told him, she was like, you know, I'm witnessing that. You need to reach out to these friends. Right. Because when you do and you all connect, it's beautiful. And he's intentionally been calling and setting time with these, with these friends, and they are spending intimate time together. And she's like, see, you were the problem in this particular situation. And so, yes, I think you're absolutely correct. I think a lot of this comes from the way that we also show up in relationship, in society, etc. Etc. And they're not always fought. They don't always have the environment that's fostered.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

For a health, for a healthy relationship in that way.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah. And, and I, and I don't think it's just on, man. I think, you know, as I pointed out earlier, women contribute to it as well. We have a lot of boxes for them that, that women, we just don't have those for ourselves. We can, you know, there's this, you know, I have slept in the bed as a grown woman with other women just on trips like, oh, we can sleep in the bed. And it's not a thing. I, I don't think men are necessarily doing that.

[Kia]

That, you know, it's like, yeah, not, not, not, not. But the majority, I don't think it's

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

like, oh, yeah, me and him, we can. And I'm not saying it has to be that. Right. But I'm just saying there's a level of intimacy that women can get to. And, and I, I find what happens, particularly with couples, is for that man, that woman is that emotional support. It's not, it's not. His homeboys is not, you know, other folks. It becomes the, the responsibility of the woman in that relationship to be that emotional support while she is also needing emotional support. And, you know, women, truly, they probably get it other places, but sometimes they don't or Sometimes they're overburdened, particularly if you're not offering any support back. Right. Because if you want to be listened to and you can't listen. Right. Yeah. You want to lay your burdens down on me and I give you a burning you like, you got it. Whoa.

[Jade]

Exactly.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

It's not the information I gave you.

[Jade]

Exactly, exactly.

[Kia]

You're like, hold on, this is not a two way street.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I'm gonna need a two hour conversation like I just gave you.

[Jade]

Exactly. And you do have to say that sometimes, like, you know, you have to articulate. I've experienced that. Like I said, Jay knows this story, but like, I have had a guy I was dating get upset or sort of bring it to me, like, you know, you're not in a relationship with me, you in a relationship with Toya. And it's like, well, yes, Toya and I are best friends. And so I'm in, like, you know. Yeah. Feeling like that jealousy, you know what I'm saying? And so that opened up the opportunity for me to say, because I have tried to connect with you in this way and this is how you responded. And so in the same ways that I was supportive to you, I did not get that reciprocated. And so there are other spaces where I can go and get that. And so that's, you know, like, you know, just really having that conversation and be open about it. But if we don't. Because you could see in his face, like, when I said it, he thought that he was hurting my feelings. Right. Like I was going to be so like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. And it was like, no, you're right. You're right. I am in a relationship and I'm trying to build a relationship with you, but this is. These are the barriers that I have had. And so I am grateful for the space and the language to sort of articulate it and the nod that it's, you know, you can't be mind readers in this work. It definitely takes you opening up and saying, like, okay, well, yeah. And no. And every relationship has to have that kind of transparency.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And relationships, all, you know, healthy relationships will require inconvenience.

[Jade]

Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You're. They're gonna want something when you are like, dang, this is not the right time, and you're gonna want something from them. So this idea that, oh, you can share with me, but when it's time for me to share with you, you opt out. It's like, no, yeah, this is a part of being in a relationship. Whether that's a partner or a friend that we have to show up even when it's not good timing. I've gotten a 2am phone call. Like, girl, can you come pick me up? Wait, what time is it? Oh, you can't wait till seven?

[Jade]

I guess she really needs it.

[Kia]

It's two o'.

[Jade]

Clock.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

Are you scared?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What is going on? What's happening?

[Jade]

An emergency.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Are you saying.

[Jade]

Do you need me to call again?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Emergency or little.

[Kia]

Look, Ned, I'd be like, you want me to come from Brooklyn? Harlem. Oh, wow.

[Jade]

Okay.

[Kia]

Okay, girl. Sometimes. All right, you're right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

It's not like, oh, because I need this in the future. It's like, no, I love this person. I want to make sure they're safe. And I'm up out of my sleep.

[Kia]

It's.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

It's. It's. It's a part of the relationship. And what, what we're doing a little bit of now is. It's not convenient. I don't want to help my friends move. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do this. And it's like, you have too many. I don't want to dos. To want connection you have. You have to break a fingernail and do X, Y and z sometimes or offer some sacrifice. And. And you can't always sit in. In the convenience of. This is what works for me. Like, this is what's supportive to my lifestyle. I don't love to go out in the evenings, but every now and then, if somebody's like, you want to grab dinner? I'm not gonna have a 100 of the time rule.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I have to be flexible with their schedule. I can't have that friend. Am I telling them, hey, you got to take a day off work for us to get together?

[Kia]

They're like, nedra, I don't want to go out. I'm not.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

There's some flexibility required. So it's getting into these experiences sometimes and being like, okay, this was cool. I don't have to do it again outside of doing it with you. But, yeah, this was fine. You know, this was a lovely way to spend your birthday. We ain't doing this on my birthday.

[Jade]

Yeah, right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Was fun for you.

[Kia]

Yes. And I. And I was happy to come out of my shell to celebrate in the ways that you need. Okay, so hyper independence then. Okay. Because we celebrate. We do independence, like the, the culture. We as a, as a society.

[Jade]

Especially for black. Yes.

[Kia]

It's. Yeah. To the way it can be detrimental to our. Well, oftentimes, what would you say to somebody who puts that label on themselves and also was never modeled, it was never modeled for them. How to show up in relationship, but they want to be in relationship. What would you say to somebody like,

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

you have to break your code of conduct and literally flip your life upside down. Sitting at discomfort. Start asking for things, start allowing people to help you and not completely get rid of this idea of independence. Independence is not bad. Being able to do things yourself is not bad. But not letting anyone help you, not telling people what your needs are, that is the part of it where the lines get blurred and eventually those folks break even. If you like to be the planner, planning 100% of the time becomes problematic. Even if you are excellent at cooking, having all the gatherings at your house and the responsibility of all the food all, all the time does get a little stressful. So being able to sit back and sit down and allow other people to do things is really important. They, they may not do it like you now. This is the really hard part. They are not going to do it exactly like you. Go ahead, put that hair all over that face.

[Jade]

Yeah, we need to hear it.

[Kia]

I don't want you to bring your dishes. We need to hear it.

[Jade]

Yes, exactly.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

So, you know, holiday and you know what I did? I assigned dishes to the people who cook each thing well. So I said, so and so. Bring banana pudding. So and so. Bring peach cobbler. So and so. Bring Caesar salad. I have a friend that makes a good dress. So and so bring this. So and so. Bring that. And they were laughing. They were like, I, you just assigned us stuff. I said, based on your skill level. You know, I've had, you know, yeah, you need to just have this on your counter at all times. Ready? Like, ready to go.

[Kia]

Okay. Okay.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

They were talking to you when they said peach cobbler.

[Jade]

Okay. So, yeah, it's true.

[Kia]

You are the peace cobbler lady.

[Jade]

Yes. But, yeah, we're gonna have a good time.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

It's not necessary. You don't even, you know, I, I, we want to be the master of everything. I could bake. I could, I can cook. I can make soups. I can make salads. You just need to make about five things. Well, and be known for those.

[Kia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You don't have to make everything good. You know, we don't even like restaurants like that. We like niche restaurants. We want to go to Italian restaurant. If I go to an Italian restaurant and they had Asian food on the menu. No, thank you. No, thank you.

[Kia]

Oh, I'M talking. I'm like, what is this, Cheesecake Factory? Get it out of here.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I want an expert may feel. Okay.

[Jade]

Correct.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I like that.

[Jade]

It's true.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And so we're overworking our people by saying you have to figure out how to do everything well, build a house, make the food, plan a vacation, listen to people. Just. We just dump it so much and we allow it. And then we take on the identity of, I'm a type A. I'm a. I'm the person that's responsible for everybody, come to me for everything. And then there's a crash.

[Kia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade]

I think additionally, I'm trying to think where I want to go, because I have two questions I want to ask right now. So what I'll say first before we get to my second question. In the book, you also unpack attachment styles, and you also very, very clearly help us to sort of think about the distinctions between introversion and extroversion and even what it means to be an ambivert. Right. These are words that we hear on the Internet a lot. And I think I can be. I'm guilty. There are a lot of times where I will name my introversion as a excuse or reason for why I behaved in a certain way. So can you help us to think about, like, and make clear, like, what it really means to be extroverted versus introverted versus, you know, having being an ambivert and how that plays into how we relate and connect to people?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah. So what? From what I see on the Internet, the way that introversion is described, it is someone who doesn't like to be around people ever. That is not what an introvert is. Introvert do like people. They can be social is more about how do you recharge. So after a long day, do you call somebody on the way home or do you sit in the car in silence or listen to the radio or something? That's. That's more of a tendency around, like, how I recharge. Like, how do I, you know, or how much alone time do I. Do I need or desire? Like, that's, that's introversion and extrovert. It doesn't mean you don't like people.

[Jade]

Right, Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And so, and, and we confuse it with shyness.

[Jade]

Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Extroverts can be shy. They could be, I fear, public speaking, but they don't mind, you know, talking in a group of 20 at a party or something, or being the center of attention. But they may not want to speak publicly. So it's, it's, it's really about, like, how do I recharge? Is it with people or without people? How much much alone time do I need or require for myself? But both of those introverts, extroverts, they like people. It's not like I don't like people. So it's not this thing we sell online. Like, all the people around, I hate them because I'm an introvert. It's like, well, I don't even have a title for that.

[Kia]

No, you're an. I do.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Because. Introvert.

[Kia]

Is that a social anxiety?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You know, I'm sorry, Social anxiety, but also is. You know, introverts have a tendency to maybe have a smaller group of friends. They have very deeply connected relationships.

[Jade]

Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Because they don't. They may not gravitate towards as many people, and their connections may be a little. I don't want to say more solid, because extroverts have solid relationships as well. But extroverts can have a hundred friends, right? Because everybody they friend, they want to be around the people, no matter what they do is like, they can do even more people. And then the omnivert is like, right in the middle. That is me. And I will say, once I had kids, I started to tend a little bit more towards introversion because my energy level is like, you know what? I can't. My energy is gone just from saying, get in the bed. Like, I have. I don't want to talk to anybody else because people don't necessarily energize me. I love talking to people. I'm very social. Like, in a social environment, I'm like, lit. I love it. However, I like my alone time. I love my quiet time. So I'm, you know, I'm. I'm kind of in the center of that. Like, I really like people. And also I. I didn't mind them six feet of distance. It's like I needed. I needed that little space when we had to do it.

[Jade]

So, yeah.

[Kia]

Oh, I loved it. I think it's necessary once a year for. For all of the world I've been talking about. I was like, did y' all hear the birds? They were chirping at 3:45am because they ate, y'. All. I loved lockdown. Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And what typically happens is the introvert and the extrovert get together. You notice this struggle of b, come outside. I want to go outside. You know, like, that whole thing, you know, it's really about accepting where people are is not personal at all. You know, I. When I'm. When I'm working with People who are introverts or extroverts. Like I have a client who I'm thinking of who's an extrovert who thought it was a lovely idea to work from home. And I'm like, this will not work for you.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You are the person who go past people cubicle and just be chatting.

[Kia]

Oh, the annoying one. The one good morning seven times.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You're like, you gotta be out, you know, so. Working from home.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And it depends on your level of extroversion because maybe there are some things that you do outside the house that fulfills that extroversion need. But if you, if work is at home and you don't have anything to do after, you're going to go into a depression because you're not able to be with the people you're going against.

[Kia]

You're going against your spirit, which is.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You're going against your spirit, which is to socialize. So even if it's going to a coffee show, so we work through things, go to a coffee shop, go to a co working space, have some meetings where. Or some situations where your friends come over and y' all work together. Like those sorts of of things also don't work out at home. Go get a gym membership, get out there. You, you like that, you know, banter with people and that connection where some people are like, I ain't got to talk to them people. You're not one of those folks. And that's okay. There nothing wrong with that. We have to recognize who we are and not allow it to be a limitation in our relationships with people.

[Jade]

For sure. For sure. And it's good to have that, like to know that. I think, I think that in my friend group, I think most of us are introverts. We are social. If I think about my best friend, like Toya is a social, a sociable introvert. I'm a shy one.

[Kia]

Yes.

[Jade]

Right. So we'll be in the same space and we'll work that space completely differently. Like she will. But you know, when I'm coming, comfortable, when I feel safe, when I am around my people, like I'm a yappa with the best of them. A yappa, yap, yap. But in new spaces and around new people, it takes me a little while to come out of that. Out of that space. And it also takes me a long time to recover, like afterwards. Right. So I'm not the person. I'm gonna need some alone time to get myself back. Right. After being amongst a lot of strangers. And when we go on trips and Stuff it's good to know, like, you know, like we'll be in the same space but not talking to each other. Like, these are my people. We are all here and we're all together. And I know if I need Jay, I could call her. But we don't got to be sitting right here and talking.

[Kia]

No, I'm happy to go to my room. It's no problem.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And I love you just the same.

[Jade]

I'm exactly to go to my room.

[Kia]

Yeah. I love going to my room at the end of the night. And I love my girls.

[Jade]

Oh, I love.

[Kia]

And we're on vacation. Patient. And we'll see each other in the morning. And that's wonderful.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

I think I've always been introvert, but I'm. Yeah, I like to be at home. I really like to be at home in my space. If my child gets sick or my husband calls out of work, it irritates me because y' all have. This is my time. I don't have to. I don't have to talk to nobody if I'm not recording. I don't have to engage with anybody. I enjoy my space, but I like talking to people out in the world. I just don't need to bring all of them with me. So I. That's a beautiful. I never really thought about it that way. You had one more question, sis, and then I know we got to wrap up.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah.

[Jade]

I was going to say we were talking about as we. I was supposed to start here, but I got wrapped up. I have really valued the balancing act and this kind of double barreled. Right. Because I feel like I like to ask people, when we have them on specifically around a book, is there a specific way that we should read it? Right. So is it like a book that we read cover to cover or is it more of a reference where we can jump around? I asked that because I'm negotiating a season in my family life, Right. Where I think that our culture. I'm learning a lot about our family culture as it is evolving. And I know that we are a family that is largely connected, largely in contact, but I'm recognizing that we're not really deeply connected in a lot of ways. And so I have been really using this book as a reference for helping me negotiate some of that. And I wasn't sure if that was the right way to do it. Like, you know, when I am experiencing something, I have had a conversation. I will go and read the Hyper Independence, Hyper Independence chapter and be like, okay. And then I might, you know, Jump around. So is there a right way that we should handle the balance in that or a way that maybe not right? Or do you. Is there a suggested way that we can use the book?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I would say use it as you need. When I'm reading non or. Yeah. Non fiction books, I jump around. Sometimes I just look at the, the. The title and I'm like, this is the chapter that I. That I need today. And depending on the book, I might read it cover to cover. So it's, it's really based on what you need.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And I want you to. To not read it because I gotta finish it. You know, there's no rule.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Saying you have to read the book cover to cover. You read what you need. I love what you said about lots of contact but not as much connection. Because that is the confusion sometimes that we have in relationships. If I talk to this person all the time or if I see them all the time, we're close and we're seeing this more. So with parent child relationships. Like, parents may want a lot of contact and their kid is like, I don't want to talk to you that much because I'm not getting that nothing out of it.

[Jade]

Right.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

And so you have more kids saying there's no emotional connection and a parent is like, what, I talk to you every day. But that contact doesn't equal connection. Yeah.

[Jade]

A lot of our conversation is transactional. It is about a specific thing we need to discuss, but there's not a lot of space. And I'm glad that you said that from a parent child perspective, because I used to say. I say all the time. But when growing up, my relationship with my mom was very much about business. It was like I felt like I was her staff, my brother was her son. Like, you know, there was. She did not have a lot of nurturing, oh, hey, how you doing? What's going on in your life? Conversations. With me, it was more so like, here are the things that I need you to do today. And you know, at the time in which with I need. With which I need you to do them within. And then when I was about 33, she called one day and was like, what's up? And I was like, do you have the wrong number? Because we, we've never had.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What are you talking about?

[Jade]

We had never. What are you talking about? Like you asking me questions about me. And so we had to build that muscle. And that's taken time, but I think it took her a long time to see that. Even though we spent a great deal of Time together, you still don't know a lot about me and I don't know a lot about you. And so we didn't have to work through, like, what that meant and come to our own. But as we are in this season, with my family, particularly around a loss of like a patriarch, it's clear that we come together and we have our traditions of when we usually see each other and people play their roles and their parts. But now that those dynamics are changing, it doesn't feel like we have there. There are points of connection.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What, what do you think would make you all feel more connected?

[Jade]

A lot of things, but the first thing that comes to mind is a language and an ability to sort of communicate across difference. I think there's a. There's a real, like, I. We. Let's say you and me have a conversation. Nedra and I say, let's go to lunch. And we say, okay, we agree, we gonna go to lunch. And you say, I can only do Thursday. And I say, I can only do Friday. So it would be like, oh, well, we tried. Like, it's like, it's not like we are, you know, there's not a lot of, like, you know, well, I experience

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Thursday or Friday to make it work.

[Jade]

I'm saying that there's not a lot of. I mean, I could. And I feel like I have been trying to break that, but that seems to be the pattern. When I think about sort of the norms or sort of like the family's culture about a thing. It's like, oh, well, we were supposed to do this, or we had agreed to do this and it didn't work out.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

There's not a lot of tries full of flexible people. Because the thing about families is these people operate in the world as functioning human beings outside your family. At work, they can't be like, well, I only could do it every Friday. They just do it. They know how to figure things out. But there is something about the dynamic and the culture where it's like, oh, I have options. And actually this is a part of the world too. You don't have options. You think you do. So we are doing such and such on such and such day. Whoever can come, please be there.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Instead of what works for everybody. I think with, with adult relationships, period, we try to get this consensus of stuff. And. And you're talking to adults who are already over functioning. They have other things to do. They taking care of their parents. They had kids, they gotta walk to the train station. I don't know, stuff. They got stuff going on and you give them more options. Do you want to do a Wednesday essay on Saturday at 12 o'? Clock? We are gathering.

[Kia]

You can make it.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Whoever can gather.

[Jade]

I think we lost. Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

At the gathering.

[Jade]

We lost the decision maker. I think the person who made those decisions is the person we lost. And now I think that. I think we're at a point where we're trying to figure out who's going

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

to take the role because you're noticing it as a. As an issue and you don't have to do it regularly and. Yeah, once a year. You could say self. Once a year. I'm going to plan X, Y and Z. That way that box is. Is checked. We've had our family time.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Don't give people all of these. Y' all want to do it on the 7th or whoever can come. We'll get there.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah, that's good.

[Jade]

I'm glad that you said that. I don't have to do it all the time. That's when I was like, what? I don't need another job.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You don't do a poll of what day dates work for everybody.

[Jade]

He sure don't.

[Kia]

You are right about that. And you know who especially doesn't do that? Beyonce. She doesn't care what's clearly

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

pandemic. She don't care something. She don't care about your body.

[Jade]

You don't. No, she does not.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

The dates.

[Jade]

Yep, that's correct. She said, I'm glad you prepare these

[Kia]

landfills are buying silver to wear.

[Jade]

Be like Beyonce. I could do that. These are the days. And I'm glad, like you said, be like Beyonce. Because she don't do it. She do it when she wants it. She don't. There's no pressure that I have to do this every year. Once a year. I'mma do it when I get ready. That's what I needed. Because I think I'm also like, I don't need another job having to do this for everyone all the time.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Don't make one. This is when we. I am planning something annually. Whatever your date and time is, send a message to the people. Whoever can get there will get there. You don't have to figure out what works best for everybody. You don't have to sync up calendars, make it really easy for yourself. People can move their schedules around to accommodate stuff when they have notice.

[Kia]

It's true. It's true.

[Jade]

And when they want and when they

[Kia]

can't, it's okay as well. And when they miss.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yeah, it's. It's okay. I, I had a birthday party and my cousin, he's a firefighter, he came in his uniform, he said I had to work today, cuz. But I just wanted to stop by and say hi.

[Kia]

Yeah. And that's enough. That's my. Listen, all my cousins do asphalt. So when I go to Cleveland, it's a bunch of blue collar in their dicky suits and they come through and it's nice to give them a hug and to see their face and to move on about our business, you know what I mean? Because I don't get to see them. Them often. And yeah, you take that pressure off of yourself and let somebody else take a piece of it. And if they don't, then it's that once a year.

[Jade]

Yeah, then it's once a year.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

But you can only do what you can. And I think unfortunately, when that person in the family passes away, we over complicate what future gatherings will look like because it's not exactly like the past gatherings. Like it. This ain't the same no more because Grandma. Not here. Grandma would have. Well, the culture has to continue.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

She died. She didn't take the culture with her.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

So we have to, we have to reconnect. We have to realign. We have to think of new ways to do the same thing. It's not going to be at her house, but it will be at a house. This is the way we'll, we'll do it this year. And, and maybe you aren't the person who's doing all of the things, but I can do one thing. That's what I can commit to. To make sure that my. This is important to me. To make sure that my family gathers. This is the one thing that I will do.

[Kia]

I would be responsible. Yeah. If you want. If. What would you tell the listeners? If there's one thing you want them to take away besides to buy the balancing act, what would you want them to take away from reading the balancing

[Jade]

act for reference,

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

you have to be the change, you know, and I think that's the hardest part. We want everybody else to. If they would just call me. If they would just ask for less. If they would, if they would, if they would. And you are the person who was called to be the controller of your life. You are in the driver's seat. And, and with relationships, if you want deeper connection, you will have to seek it out. You will have to be willing to connect. You have to sit in some discomfort. And for some of us, for some of us, that's so tough. That's so tough. I get it. It's really hard. But it is also very rewarding.

[Kia]

It is. It's like learning how to drive. Right? Because a lot of people have never learned how to drive. We ain't got to take your car all the time. You know what I'm saying? Like, you don't have to be the master driver, but you gotta drive sometime. You gotta, you know, we gotta take turns with this. I think that's a beautiful takeaway. Will you come back again? I feel like we have so much more to discuss.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yes.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Please have me again. Yeah, we would.

[Kia]

We will have you anytime that you are available for us. We want you all to make sure you check out the description box box where you get the link to all things Nedra, including a link to purchase the balancing act. If you're looking for ways for deeper connection within your own personal life and how to balance those, you really tell. You really help people. Nedra, you give beautiful tools on just how to kind of exist like in relationship with regular, regular relationships. You're like show. If you show up like this, you can get this thing. And I love that your tools are so, so clear. They're so clear and they're so helpful

[Jade]

because people relationship with others and relationship with ourselves. I'm sorry.

[Kia]

No, no, no. Very much that. Yeah, very much that.

[Jade]

I, I'm. We appreciate all the ways that you help us. Like I said earlier, this has been a reference and I've been, it's been helpful and sort of helping me find the language that I need to have to negotiate some of the relationship dynamics in my own life. So we just appreciate you for coming to the kitchen table again and for just all the ways in which you help us help ourselves be whole in these crazy times.

[Kia]

Okay, good morning but thank you again and make sure again you all check out the description box. You can get links to all to all of the reads and all of the info and we'll see you for the next segment.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Thank you.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Paramount Plus Announcer]

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[Jade]

What? Yes.

[Paramount Plus Announcer]

With all new episodes of Tyler Perry's divorce system.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

You've always liked a little drama, plus

[Paramount Plus Announcer]

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[Jade]

Now I will control an Empire original

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[Kia]

Just make sure we protect each other.

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And live sports like ufc.

[Kia]

Welcome to the history books.

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New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount. Subscribe now.

[Kia]

All right, we're back in our favorite season in between spring and summer graduation. All right, I'm going to start off our very first letter. Hey, chef Jade and Dr. Kia. I've been listening to Getting Grown for the longest. Thank you ladies for creating and staying consistent with this podcast. Oh, thank you. Thank you for recognizing that. Okay. Tis Tis not easy to stay consistent

[Jade]

in anything we are doing.

[Kia]

Hello. Are we not like Jade? I love to cook. And Kia, you are my fellow church kid and sister in Christ.

[Jade]

Oh, hey. Hallelujah and praise the Lord.

[Kia]

Okay. Amen. Amen. Y' all are truly my friends in my head. Now to these grats. Congrats to my older my older sister, Monica for obtaining her master's degree in Ed leadership, all while being a middle school teacher o ghetto and a single mother of two. She started this journey a decade ago and finally put her fears aside and closed the chapter. I know none of it has been easy, especially navigating being a mom to two teenagers. But she persevered and walked across the stage on May 2nd.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

Next are two of my babies. I'm a proud and present aunt and while I have no children of my own, I have seven nephews and nieces. I do my best to Help my sisters with their kids because it truly does take a village.

[Jade]

Amen.

[Kia]

Amen for you. Those kids swear I'm the rich auntie and I hope to one day have the money that they think I do.

[Jade]

I know that's right.

[Kia]

Hello. Okay, okay. Because my niece will not stop asking me for Roblox. It's like, until then, I'm gonna do the best I can with what I got. Word to Mariah. Congratulations to my oldest nephew, Mason, my sister Monica's son, who graduated high school on May 22. His senior year has been nothing short of challenging, but thank God he made it. And he managed to become a state champion basketball player in the process. Come on. Weapons form. But they do not prosper. I know that's right. Lord, we thank you. Prayerfully, we will be celebrating another graduation for him in two more years. From community college, then on to university.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Let me tell you something that makes me so happy. I love that trajectory. I love how that's going. Y' all are gonna save a coin. All right. And last but certainly not least, my smart and sassy six year old niece, Alex, who we affectionately call Toot. Y' all so black. Our Covid baby is graduating from kindergarten and too excited to go to first. First grade. She's definitely a scholar in the making and an all around good time. I can't wait to see exactly who she becomes in the future. Thank you for taking the time to acknowledge their accomplishments. Lots of love, bk. Oh, thank you for writing in bk. Congratulations, Monica, Mason and two.

[Jade]

Come on. Mason got on his space gray. His. His wolf gray. Let me come.

[Kia]

Oh, way down.

[Jade]

To the graduation.

[Kia]

Oh, look at everybody. Black people in purple. I mean, it's just.

[Jade]

Don't we love Mason?

[Kia]

Clearly handsome. Everybody here is gorgeous. Looking beautiful. I love to see you look at two.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

All a family of grods.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

I love it.

[Jade]

I love it. All right.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

The next announcement reads. Hi, chef Jade and Dr. Takia. Thank y' all for holding this space for us to write in and congratulate our ourselves as well as others. I am finally riding in after being too chick and procrastinating when I graduated with my doctorate. What? An infectious diseases in 2021. And you. 2021.

[Kia]

21, girl. Five years ago, girl. Zero excuses. Dr. Joy would tell me my approach is unhealthy. And I. I love you, Dr. Joy, but I don't care right now. What's wrong with you? Why would you write it?

[Jade]

2021. No. She says, Two years ago, I decided to leave my postdoctoral Fellowship on the east coast and move to the Midwest to go back to school for counseling psychology. I'm so happy to share that on June 26, I will be graduating with my masters to therapize the humans. And I will be certified. A certified addictions counselor. I'm so excited to do this work and care for people in this way. Now the problem is telling myself I do not need another doctorate. Hello. Clearly, I'm trying to avoid working because Tis quite ghetto. Agree.

[Kia]

Anywho, it is.

[Jade]

I also would like to congratulate everyone who is graduating this year. We did it. Joe. Thank you for reading my announcement. And thank you for all the work y' all put into getting grown. Y' all have really curated a beautiful space where people can feel seen and celebrated. Thank you. I wish you both peace and many blessings. And that is from Dr. Kierra Hardy.

[Kia]

Kiara Hardy, PhD. First of all, 2021. A doctorate in infectious diseases and in host defense in.

[Jade]

In the COVID In the COVID What?

[Kia]

And you just right in the thick of it. You share like what? Kiara. Running. Kierra, I'm so sorry for calling you out, your name and all matters of things, but we irritated with you. We're proud of you. We're irritated with you.

[Jade]

We family. So we can tell you that you know better than that.

[Kia]

Kiara, girl, what we was going to do was read anybody else who's listening to this and you're feeling the same way. Take heed.

[Jade]

That's right. Don't get cut.

[Kia]

Kiara went through that, so hopefully you

[Jade]

ain't got to go through. That's right.

[Kia]

You know what I'm saying?

[Jade]

Congratulations, Kiara.

[Kia]

Congratulations. Get on out here, Dr. Kiara.

[Jade]

Exactly. You doing the Lord's work therapy. Yeah.

[Kia]

You are therapizing and infectious diseases

[Jade]

your skill set now more than ever weekend. Hello.

[Kia]

A multifaceted queen. Take Beyonce out the l' Oreal commercial.

[Jade]

Put her in Queen bitch.

[Kia]

Talk about because you're worth it.

[Jade]

Because you're worth it.

[Kia]

Yo, that cracked me up. Oh, they used to irritate me on those commercials with that. With that. It was the African American. Native American Creole. I was like, please shut the.

[Jade]

Please. L', Oreal, please.

[Kia]

Oh, my God. Okay. All right, all right. I'm back to.

[Jade]

Okay. We're working.

[Kia]

Hello, Joseph. Joseph. Is Joseph okay to the show? All right. I love it.

[Jade]

Hey, Joseph.

[Kia]

Hello, GG team.

[Jade]

Hey.

[Kia]

I hope you all are having a great day. I hope you are, too, Joseph. I have two graduations to announce. These two babies were born three months apart when I was in my early 20s. 20s, and I still remember the feelings of being a part of both of these villages. One baby had a mysterious illness that the doctors gave up on. The other was the first baby his parents had ever had. So it took a lot of effort from both camps to keep them alive and thriving. I was happy to be apart. Tired but happy. Mini bottles, diapers, taekwondo belt test. And years later, they're graduating from high school. I love it. Holly's going to Lander University to major in early childhood education. And my nephew Ben has a non profit named Kosat that focuses on sustainability. He spoke at a youth summit at the UN headquarters. So I'll attach that video. Thank y' all for giving us this space to celebrate our babies together. I'm so very proud of them all. With much joy. Joseph. Joseph, thank you so much for writing.

[Jade]

Congratulations.

[Kia]

Oh, congratulations. Oh, okay.

[Jade]

Come on, we got a whole video here.

[Kia]

Okay. Holly and Ben.

[Jade]

And Ben.

[Kia]

I love it. Okay, we're gonna watch this post haste.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

Thank you for watching this post haste. Joe. Joseph, thank you so much for writing in.

[Jade]

Yes. Our next is from another friend to the show, Dr. Felicia Commodore.

[Kia]

Yes, Dr. Felicia.

[Jade]

Hi, Jaden. Kia. Hey, girl. I hope this email finds you safe and well. I wanted to send a quick shout out to Dr. Leona McGowan, who graduated with her PhD in higher education from Old Dominion University this spring. Dr. McGowan's dissertation was entitled A Phenomenological Study of the Lived Mentoring Experiences of Black Women faculty at public HBCUs. As her co chair, I have had the honor of watching Leona grow from a student to a scholar. Her journey as a young mother with a GED to now holding a PhD and being faculty herself is inspiring and reminds me why our work as black women in the academy still matters. She is amazing and I can't wait to see what life has in store for her. Also, congrats to my cousin, Maya Commodore, who graduated with a master's in the study of law from the University of Georgia School of Law. Your big cousin is super proud. Thank you, Jade and Kia for continuing to give us a space every week, if only for a bit, to find respite, joy and relief from the madness that is this world. If ever you doubt if you are doing something to help your community, please know that you are and we are grateful. Love y', all, felicia. Thank you, Dr. Commodore.

[Kia]

Thank you, Dr. Commodore. Congratulations, Dr. McGowan.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

And also Maya.

[Jade]

Thanks, guys.

[Kia]

I love it. I love that. Congratulations, you all. And Felicia, you always. You always the Biggest support.

[Jade]

We love you.

[Kia]

We love us some feet. All right. Hi, Dr. Takiya and Chef Jade. I don't know why I said that like that. I know you didn't write that like that. I'm sorry. I'm a long time listener who looks forward to hearing you guys perspective on so many things every week. You guys are such a model for true friendship, and I truly look forward to hearing from you, you, from you guys. Each and every week, I want to give a shout out to our little kindergarten graduate, our daughter, Corinne. Yes. Okay, I said it right. She is a blessing to me, my wife and her two brothers. Our eldest child has been homeschooled for years, and this year was our daughter's first year. She did so well with the transition. Dad and mom are so proud of you, Corey. You're such an intelligent, funny, strong willed and friendly little girl who's got to go far. I'd also have to shout out my beautiful wife, dez, who is the primary teacher for Corinne and our eldest son. I know it's hard juggling so much, but you are appreciated for what you do in and outside of homeschooling. Thanks. And that's from Jason. A Jason. Recognize your queen? Look, I can. Look at this. Okay. This is a stinkle butt.

[Jade]

Cute face.

[Kia]

Do you hear me?

[Jade]

I love.

[Kia]

Yes. Okay. His personality and that smile. Look at this beautiful family.

[Jade]

I love Korean.

[Kia]

Beautiful family.

[Jade]

The homeschool teacher.

[Kia]

Mama, does you look like my cousin Jade. Yes. There's another Jade, less chaotic. She's in the Bronx. But yes. Shout out. Shout out to you, Corinne. And shout out to you, dez. And thank you you for writing in Jason.

[Jade]

Yes, thank you. And thank you for sharing this picture.

[Kia]

Y' all better blow this picture up. I want it on a mantle. Okay.

[Jade]

This child needs to be on Abbot elementary or something.

[Kia]

She does.

[Jade]

I love it.

[Kia]

I love this picture.

[Jade]

It's so good.

[Kia]

And I love little girl, a little black children in white. It's just so. They're just so cute. Okay. All right. Right, let's lock in. Oh, wait, no, that's you, actually. Okay.

[Jade]

Yeah. Wait, am I reading the right one?

[Narrator/Announcer]

Hold on.

[Jade]

Let me see. Oh, yeah. Oh, not.

[Kia]

You wrote two versions.

[Jade]

I mean, an abridged version. I'm gonna go ahead and read the long one because we got a little time. Come on. You better send us a truncated version. But no, I appreciate you. I've been listening to getting grown since 2019, and the graduation announcements always broke my heart a little bit.

[Narrator/Announcer]

It.

[Jade]

I've been trying to get my bachelor's degree since 2006 and haven't even taken much time off. It's just been a lot of failure and me straight up not doing the work because I felt inexplicably blocked so often I would do all the reading and none of the assignments. When I was about 21, I was diagnosed with severe ADHD. I tried five different medications and none worked. I kept enrolling in school trying to do the work and did not immediately get emotionally overwhelmed. My dad's last piece of life advice to me before he passed 10 years ago was persist. He said no matter what happens, keep trying if you want to accomplish something. So I kept persisting with school. I finally broke through last year and was able to complete assignments at the last minute only to learn half of the assignments couldn't be turned in late even though I had ADHD accommodations. I got kicked out of school and they told me I couldn't even apply again for another year. I wanted to give up but I pushed and applied for several easy to get in schools. I got rejected from all but one. A few said it was because I was on academic probation. With my last school rejection was redirection because the school that accepted me was perfect for me. It has eight week semesters which made everything so much easier for me because I'm only energetic at the start of the semester and at the end. Failing at school has been extra hard for me because I truly love to learn. I just hate the way schools are set up. But either way, after 20 years of trying, I finally done it and I'm graduating with my BS in Business Administration and although I'm extremely nervous about it, I'm inspired enough to try to pursue a Master's degree in English and an entry level job in publishing. Next. Thank you for helping motivate me with the graduation announcements because even though they broke my heart a little bit, that heartbreak regularly illuminated how badly I wanted to keep trying. Thank you Kia and Jay for recognizing these accomplishments. I know I speak on behalf of so many when I say we truly appreciate y' all and what you do for our community. Lastly, can you sing it? And grown love to one of my best friends who also loves the show. My friend Bri who is one of the world's best people, lost her mother on Mother's Day. Wow. After being a full time caregiver for almost three years. Sending love to you both for your recent losses as well. Thank you for everything. I've attached pics of the cap I made inspired by my dad's Advice. And that is from Hillary.

[Kia]

Oh, Hillary. Come on with the crack. Come on with the tiara and the yes. Innovation.

[Jade]

You did persist and I want to tell you that I'm proud of you. I also want to commend you for sharing your story because I'm sure that you are not the only person who has had to continue to keep showing up even when things didn't go according to plan. So please know that from the bottom of our hearts, we couldn't be more proud of you. We are so, so grateful for you and all the ways you stuck with it and saw yourself through your goals. And I hope you feel as accomplished and loved as you are. Sending you prayers as you mourn your dad. We're also sending.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

Breathe all of the love and. And comfort and prayer and support as well. Thank you, Hillary.

[Kia]

Yeah. I hope both of you listen you after a chance, a 20 year.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Feat and breathe. You know being a full time caretaker is also.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

That is not easy. I hope the both of you are able to take a little bit of time, please into yourselves, please. You know what I'm saying? And just leveling yourselves because you most certainly deserve it. And I hope you are celebrating yourself like nobody's business because that is beautiful.

[Jade]

We celebrate you.

[Kia]

Beautiful. We absolutely celebrate you. Thank you and so much love to you, Brie.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Our last letter of this episode says. Greetings pun. The salutations, Dr. Tequila. It is with great pleasure to announce that my niece, Trinity Johnson has graduated high school school from William H. Turner Tech School in Miami, Florida. That's right. I almost had to pull up on two wheels about my niece with a teacher that was doing the most to not only her, but other students as well. Just say the word. Okay. We had to let the district know. Not this one. Because we have a village that does not play. My sister passed in 2013, the same week my grandpa passed. So sorry. He passed that Monday and my sister passed that Friday. Wow. My mama has done her big one with. With taking over grad guardianship and making sure she made it. Her neck looking a little heavy with. With all the things she was in the dual enrollment program and we'll be headed to college soon for informational technology.

[Jade]

I love it.

[Kia]

And that is from Daisy. Oh, look at you, Trinity. Come on, Trinity. Yeah. Neck was real heavy. Honey.

[Jade]

Medals. And.

[Kia]

And first of all, is this your mother in these fly ass jeans? Jeans.

[Jade]

She better with it. Okay.

[Kia]

Poo. Yes. Trinity. You better be decorated. I love it.

[Jade]

And all of the metals.

[Kia]

Okay. All of the things A decorated queens. Oh, thank you to all of our graduates. Okay, well, going in, if you wanted to be shouted out, all you do is write in. Anyway, back to what I was saying. Yeah, shout out to all the graduates and everybody who wrote in this week. You all really make this time of year so special for Kia and I. We really, really you, you thank us, but we thank you. We couldn't do this if y' all didn't send your stuff in, Kiara, so make sure you all continue to do [e-mail]. it really makes our hearts warm to read you all's announcements.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

We're so proud of each and every one of you.

[Jade]

Yes. You ready to head on into the self care system?

[Kia]

Let's run.

[Jade]

All right.

[Kia]

I deserve.

[Jade]

So my self care. I actually have a bit of a double whammy. Okay. So as I said, work is very intense. It's a very heavy time. Not like, you know, the thing about travel and meetings is that, you know, the travel and the meeting sort of come back to back and then you're still expected to sort of do your work. And this has been a constant struggle for me because it's like, if I meet all day, when am I supposed to do my job? Yesterday I had about, I'm not exaggerating, I had 10 meetings. I was literally in this seat from 10am to 5:30pm like, with no breaks, like just back to back to back to back. And I was so spent at the end of it all that I was supposed to remember I was telling you since I had originally planned to take some time off, but we have lots of things going on, especially now. So, like, you know, I might need to postpone that a little bit given all the deadlines. So I had had dates on my calendar for this week, like on hold, but I told them, I said, leave. I'm. I'm gonna work. I need some admin day. I need some days where I'm not disturbed by any meetings. And so I told, I said, make everybody else think that I'm out of office. Okay. Don't take the out of office down. So I had like a fake out of office day, but it was really just a day where I was just able to sit here and do my work. And it really was glorious. Like I was able to listen to my music and, and move through my task and to dos. I was able to sort of take my time. I stayed. I stayed up a little later last night and made like a plan and then I was able to kind of let Myself sleep in and get rest so that I could have be fueled and energized to really just attack and move through some of the things I had to do today. And I was able to do that. And I felt really good. And it was like, maybe I'll do this more often. I think I'll just have. I'll just have to sort of. And maybe I won't have to lie and say I'm out of office, but these will be like no meeting days and I will have to hold a hard boundary.

[Kia]

Yeah. Because what the. Like, if I'm. When do you all expect me to do the job?

[Jade]

It's outrageous.

[Kia]

No. And that needs to be said.

[Jade]

It does.

[Kia]

Because then what you're not going to do is be talking. Talking about, oh, she out of the office again. No, I'm trying to do my job.

[Jade]

I need to do it. When am I going to do it? There's no time time if I'm talking

[Kia]

to you and doing all your ice breakers.

[Jade]

Exactly. All of this meeting and talking and jibbing and jabbing like, girl, hush. And just let us get to it.

[Kia]

I love that you said that you took the reins on that, though.

[Jade]

Yeah, I was just like, you know what? I'm gonna, you know, if I don't do it, it's not gonna get done and I just gotta do it. I also want to say that I have been really enjoying sharing and reflecting on my sub stack and I wanted to shout out someone who left me a very, like a comment that made my day. And as I shared, there was just. I've been dealing with a lot, like lots going on at work, lots going on with family. And I really have been enjoying sort of reconnecting. Remember when we made our commitments at the start of May, I said that I was going to really use my writing and reflecting to really sort of process through all of the things and it really has been a very helpful space for me. And I wanted to give a shout out to. Hold on. I took a screenshot of it because I didn't want to forget, but I wanted to give a shout out to Keita Shea for her comment on my last post on sub stack about that. Cheyenne, Brian, y' all gonna have to check that out, y', all. Because, you know, I had just, you know, yeah, that lady been playing on my top and I was trying to mind my business. I really was.

[Kia]

I don't know anything about her. And I said, good. Everything I've heard, I just. I'm like, I just stray further.

[Jade]

Anyway, continue Very good. I don't want to read the comment because. But I. But it was a very kind comment, and I just want to thank Keshe and all the people who have been engaging on my substack, the Spiral Notebook. I really am enjoying that space and what it is becoming, and I just want to appreciate y' all for joining me on the journey.

[Kia]

I love that. I love that.

[Jade]

I love you guys.

[Kia]

Oh, I love that so much. I love that that's bringing you joy. Right. Because you deserve little pockets of it, man.

[Jade]

Oh. And it's helping me because it's giving me a space to sort of reflect, and I love that this ref. This is a space that. That all the parts of who I am sort of converge. Right. So like, the trained academic, the, you know, the beauty enthusiast, the couch potato who likes to watch the programs. Okay.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

You know, the. The inner church mother who is now sort of reimagining and reforming some of the convention and has an interrogation and analysis of, like, conventional church practice. But it's really, you know, just. Just, you know, all of these. These spaces, it's just a place for my thoughts to get out of my head and into the air. And it's. And, you know, I was struggling as to whether or not people would really give a crap about that, but you guys do, and that has been very, very, very. It's been affirming, and I appreciate it, so thank you, guys.

[Kia]

Yeah, I love that. I love that self care this week. Week, huh? Tough titty. You know what I wore? This is my grandmother's shirt.

[Jade]

Oh, yay.

[Kia]

That's my self care this week. Come on. I wore my grandmother's shirt today out of the house, and we went about. About the streets. She rode the bus, you know, lots of festivities, so. So, yeah, that's my self care this week. I just kind of tapped into some ancestral energy.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Yes.

[Kia]

And put on my Mimi shirt.

[Jade]

Of course. I think that's great. You know, I got some grandma's sweatshirts and things, and I have her bathroom, and I love to put on her house coat. I love to put on grandma's house code and just be shuffling around the house. Absolutely.

[Kia]

And also, like, where do they get these. These things? Like, I know I have my own house, but I'm like, you all had a different kind.

[Jade]

There was like, I don't know where she got. But it's like the real one. It's a real household. I live for it.

[Kia]

That's. I need you to look at the brand.

[Jade]

I will.

[Kia]

I need you to See, I need you to.

[Jade]

I'm a report back. I'm a report back.

[Kia]

Yes. Also, I don't know if I told you you this. I can't remember. I went thrifting with Noah. Did I tell you all about that?

[Jade]

Oh, no. Well, we talked. We chatted about it briefly, but I don't think you've shared it with us. No.

[Kia]

Okay. So, you know, I was like, we need to do something. You know, we had the holiday. I forgot it was a holiday. And so I was like, you know, we're not going to be in the house. But the weather wasn't super nice. So I was like, you want to go thrifting? Because I realized she likes thrifting. Drifting now. And, you know, that's my gym. She was like, yeah. And we went. And we went to multiple little shops and that. Mama, is this cute? Is this cute? How would you think about it? It was. We had a good time. We had a really, really good time. And I got a good vintage trench coat.

[Jade]

I said I was gonna ask you because you've been looking for one.

[Kia]

You know, I have been, but, you know, I've been looking for one that. Like a good one that I. I found myself a good. I think it's a London fog, but I need to check. But it a good.

[Jade]

You've been talking about that.

[Kia]

Yes, I did, sister. I've been on the hunt, like, y', all. I've been on the hunt for a minute, and I'm did not want to buy one new. I wanted to find a vintage one that was like, of you, you know, the quality.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

So I found. I found a really good one. And I was like, this is an accomplishment. So that's my other self. Care. Very good shopping with Noah. We're in a new little era. We love it. You know what I'm saying? She was like, can I buy a tube top? I was like, yeah, you can get a tube. And so she got a tube top and we, you know, we thrifted. And it's like we're finding our. Our good little place, like, now that we're in this section of life. And I love it.

[Jade]

I love that you guys are still doing things together. That's critical.

[Kia]

Yeah. Super important.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Excellent.

[Jade]

Happy.

[Kia]

All right, let's go get negative and close this out.

[Jade]

Very good.

[Kia]

Good.

[Paramount Plus Announcer]

Paramount plus is now the home of all your BET favorites.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

What? Yes.

[Paramount Plus Announcer]

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Now I will control an empire.

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[Kia]

Just make sure we protect each other.

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And live sports like ufc.

[Kia]

Welcome to the history books.

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New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount Plus. Subscribe now.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Country, Country.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Petty, petty, petty. All the same to me playing Jane Spaghetti.

[Kia]

All right, it's time for the petty penny thieves. This is not petty.

[Jade]

It's not.

[Kia]

It's not petty because it is lives. So let me. Allow me to explain.

[Jade]

Fair.

[Kia]

So I told you we took that ditch day the other weekend, went to the beach and as we're waiting on the platform for the train, you know, a train comes on the other side and all of a sudden a pops out the top of the tree just like boop. Like a jack in the box. And starts running on top of the train. And then another pops up the top.

[Jade]

What is going on?

[Kia]

And they start running behind the other. And I was like. So of course everybody on the platform is like, wait, did I just. I was like popping up the top of the train and they go flying, running down the train. Because obviously the train is an outdoor train right now. But I said, you know, I do understand that we were a little more reckless when we were younger. Right. There were things that we didn't take into account. I remember when I started driving in college, I sped in unnecessary ways, you know what I'm saying? And you know, I have most certainly taken and have the Ford train from Utica all the way to Kingsbridge at 4:30 in the morning, you know what I'm saying, and got off and walked.

[Jade]

I mean, we made wayward decisions down

[Kia]

the hill, past Sedgwick.

[Jade]

My God, did some.

[Kia]

I have walked the city at hours.

[Jade]

I have no business seemly things sit and reflect.

[Kia]

Did I have homegirls who used to meet off of. Of MySpace and Black Planet MySpace.

[Jade]

Black Planet. Mi gente girl.

[Kia]

Okay, girl. Because they had little motels in the Bronx. Anyway, so, anyway, so I say all that to say, have we been reckless before? Yes.

[Jade]

Yes. Yes.

[Kia]

Also to our. To. To our young people, our youth, them who are listening to this. Your life is fragile.

[Jade]

Very.

[Kia]

All right? And while I personally believe you'll get several of them, you only get this one. One right here. Right here, right now.

[Jade]

Mercy.

[Kia]

So I need you to be grateful for it. And I need you to just be a little bit more discerning just a little bit in the actions, in the things that you do.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

And I don't think it's necessary.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

For you to pop your black ass up out the top of the train and go running down the top of the tree. What happens if the hits something on the tracks and it stops suddenly and you go flying like a rag doll?

[Jade]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kia]

Your mother's crying like, come on, man. It's not necessary. Go get your whimsy somewhere else. You know what I'm saying?

[Jade]

Yeah. We're. There's just. There's so much inherent risk in just being. It feels like. Why would you want to also add to that risk by doing dangerous things on purpose? I just.

[Kia]

We are finding another way to thrill.

[Jade]

There's got to be.

[Kia]

I don't even. I'm not judging. Thrill seeking. I understand some need it. Yeah.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

But find another way to do it.

[Jade]

Y' all can go to an escape room or something. Something like, okay, can we go to this.

[Kia]

We not looking for that code. Go bungee jump. Something where they got professionals that can set you up with.

[Jade]

Go down to the Sky Zone.

[Kia]

Go sky.

[Jade]

Be sky. Exactly. Skydiving place.

[Kia]

Go simulate yourself in that wind Tuttle thing. That's what we need.

[Jade]

That's what we do.

[Kia]

But like. Like that. Like, look, can we not.

[Jade]

Yeah, Auntie. Auntie is asking you to please, okay? Because we have.

[Kia]

If I had a bad heart, it might have gone out on me watching your black ass pop up at the top of that train. And that's manslaughter.

[Jade]

Yeah. Our nerves are chewed up. Please give us a break. Give us a break.

[Kia]

And yourself and your. Whoever raised you, just chill out.

[Jade]

Absolutely. So I told Jay that I was struggling to settle on a petty peeve. I just felt like I was overwhelmed and struggling for inspiration. So I asked the Internet to. To. To share what was getting on Yalls nerves and got such an overwhelming response in about 20 minutes that Jade and I have. It's like, we got a lot to be mad about, don't we? All right, so I'm going to read one or two of these, but I've actually. Actually going to save them. And Jade and I have decided I'm going to let these roll all night. And Jade and I have decided that we're going to have a pet episode because we have not done that in some time. And we're going to call in some of the champions of petty to join us at the kitchen table to just walk through some of these things, but for the sake of arguments that I'll just pick one randomly. And because the people have. I had. The people have spoken. And I asked on threads and on Instagram and I mean, the people. Some very petty Someone said, when y' all be at the grocery store and you don't put the divider down in between the orders. That gets on. That gets on.

[Kia]

That's why I gotta do it.

[Jade]

Yeah, that's. I mean, because I don't work here. Hello. Someone said, I'm just looking for one. Because someone said, I hate seeing somebody under furl their tongue.

[Kia]

Okay, that's funny.

[Jade]

It's funny because it said, like she said, if. She said. I guess if someone's like, eating. Eating something off of a fork. Oh, yes. Seeing someone unfurl their tongue to eat off of their fork or something. Yes. Like with you, your tongue should not be hanging or projecting out of your mouth. That is.

[Kia]

Do not roll that out.

[Jade]

We don't want it. You roll that furrow unfurling.

[Kia]

Oh, is that a chameleon?

[Jade]

That's from. It's just me D on threads, girl. And she prefaced that this is extremely petty. Okay. And we stand in agreement with you seeing someone unfurl their tongue to eat food off of their fork or spoon. Yo.

[Kia]

That is.

[Jade]

Okay. Keep that tongue. I mean, keep it wound up in your mouth because we don't want to be a part of the unraveling. You letting your tongue down like Rapunzel. And we don't need it.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Okay.

[Jade]

We don't need it. Ooh.

[Kia]

That is the pettiest peeve in the history.

[Jade]

Oh, it's so good. It's so good. It's so good. We have lots of have the people have. They are.

[Kia]

I can't wait.

[Jade]

The pale people at work. Ali, Ali, underscore say. Ali underscore say. Says the pale people at work who cut the donuts and leave half if you don't come and get the rest of this donut.

[Kia]

I have a counter, though.

[Jade]

I have a counter girls that do a quarter. Now you cutting up the half. And girl, what I. As long as you do it right, like, make sure don't. Yeah.

[Kia]

Because sometimes you want to taste multiple donuts.

[Jade]

A proper donut. You know what I'm saying? It needs to be a.

[Kia]

But I also don't believe of in doing that in a. In a public setting. And work is a public setting. So there are caveats.

[Jade]

But if you are. It's like, if it's just us, like, let's say if six of us decided we're going to share some donuts and do we all know exactly. You know what I'm saying?

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

We're not talking about, like, municipal donuts. Nuts. Down to the wet room.

[Kia]

No No, I don't like democratic food settings.

[Jade]

Yeah. Because I don't know. I don't know if you cut this properly or if you held it with your finger and cut. You know what I'm saying?

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

You see what I'm saying?

[Kia]

It's too free in here. And I don't like that. You know, I get real.

[Jade]

I don't know the conditions under which the cutting took place. You see? And so I have questions. I cannot. And I cannot ingest this into my body, having not known if you have done the proper prop. Follow the proper procedures. You see?

[Kia]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jade]

So, yeah, we're going to get into the video.

[Kia]

I believe in. That. I get. Because I get hateful and irrational when it comes to food. And that's. And like I said, in a very. In a. In a politically, you know, problematic way.

[Jade]

And so I feel like I've shared.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I have.

[Jade]

I have. I have potluck, ptsd. As I. My very first job, I saw someone dip into the punch bowl with their hand, and there was a band aid on that thumb.

[Kia]

Did I have to tell you about. Oh, go ahead.

[Jade]

No, I was gonna say my. My. This is when I was working for Barbara Jones Jones. I feel like I've shared Barbara Jones Jones. Yeah. So one thing about Barbara Jones Jones, though, that grandmother came up out of her, and she let that person. Now, you know better than that. Now, what is it now? Can't nobody have no more punch because your finger with that nasty bandaid. Oh. She gave the person a good tongue lashing. She said what we all wanted to say.

[Kia]

Good.

[Jade]

So, you know, we were able to, you know, make sure that that was rectified immediately. But I did see it, and I. I was. I just remember gasping like there was a ladle, but he took a cup and just dipped down in there. I said, that is. There's a band aid on that thumb. That band aid went into the two

[Kia]

things dirtier than a used band aid.

[Jade]

That band aid was in the punch, y'. All. That band aid was in the punch. Don't nobody drink moisture.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

Old.

[Kia]

Dirty.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Old.

[Jade]

Old dirty bandaid.

[Kia]

Where it's all gray on the edges.

[Jade]

Yes, yes. Awful.

[Kia]

That means you ain't let that. You let that incision breathe.

[Jade]

No, that means you had it on for about a day and a half.

[Kia]

You know, you got that white ring around your finger and your skin be

[Jade]

all clammy and wet. Please.

[Kia]

That is so disgusting. That's disgusting.

[Jade]

But, yeah, we're gonna talk petty. We're gonna do it really soon.

[Kia]

Yeah. Thank you, everyone. Absolutely.

[Jade]

Thank you. For everyone who has engaged, we will have plenty of things to talk about.

[Kia]

I'm going to postal and I encourage you all. Yeah, sending them. I encourage you to all you misophonia people. Oh, go away. Because I don't got time for it. My cousin the other day, when I was eating with my cousin because she has it real bad. And so at one point in the. I forget how we got to it or. Or whatever. And I was like, yo, when I was eating, I was trying to be like. And she was like, no, I saw you. She was like, I could still hear you chewing your food. And I was like, no, seriously. She was like, I got a little

[Jade]

touch of it myself.

[Kia]

I said, I don't know what else I can do. Like, I don't chew loud. She's like, no, you don't chew loud. She said, it's me, it's me.

[Jade]

But that's what I'm saying. Like, when you have it, you can hear it. You know that you can sell when someone is trying not to. But I don't want to hear nobody's mouth sounds. I can't take it. I can't take it. I told you how I'd be ready. My mother slurps her tea and it makes me quite literally want to harm her physically. Yeah, I can't take it.

[Kia]

Oh, my God. You know what? Okay, you want to talk about a petty pee? When I was growing up, when my mother would sneeze, it would drive me crazy.

[Jade]

No, no, I got.

[Kia]

Because we be from another room and you hear her and it'd be like. And I'm like, why does it sound like that? I would get. Get so mad. I would get so mad at the way she.

[Jade]

My mom. My mom. Now this is pet. Might be pettier than that because when my mom chews, even she does not chew with her mouth open. But when she chews, I can hear her back teeth coming together. It's like this, like. And I cannot take it. I can't.

[Kia]

I'm trying to. Like, what kind of back teeth?

[Jade]

Your mother, I feel like she must have all her wisdom. She's never gotten rid of them. I don't feel like you could hear. You can hear it. And it's not that. Because in the front, it's the back

[Kia]

teeth removal is a scam. If it's. If it's not bothering you, I'm telling you, it's a money grab.

[Jade]

Fair. I would say my were impact. Well, one of them was so impacted, they didn't they didn't. They said, girl, we can't bother that. That's way down there. It's never coming up. But the other ones they were for. Because I had had braces and they said if they come up, they gonna make all the braces. You know, all the braces is gonna go crazy. So I feel like there was a rationale for me, but I hear you. I. I don't think I, I understand. People just want to snatch all four of them and if they not bothering nobody.

[Kia]

They tried to take my wisdom teeth a while back and I was like, like, but why? What's to give me the reason? And they were like, because you need to get them removed. I said, for what? They're not shifting anything and they don't bother me. And they could not give me a medical reason why these need to come out of the, out of my mouth. And so guess where they remain. Clearly where they are right now. Pardon me head.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

I love it.

[Jade]

And that is this week's episode of Getting Grown.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

We.

[Kia]

Yes.

[Jade]

Love you guys so much and big, big thanks to Doc To. I'm about to call her doctor. I'm sorry, but you know, might as well

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

look.

[Kia]

We about to give out the. We about to give out them doctorates honoraries.

[Jade]

Okay?

[Kia]

Have you seen that shit go around. Around that Christian fake university?

[Jade]

First of all, that's what I'm saying. And I, you know, me and Felicia had a conversation about this because honorary doctorates are not new and in most conventional universities they. There is a. A committee of trained doctors that come together to select someone and they select someone who's been doing work in a particular area. The issue is these non accredited, you know, jack leg schools to be popping up out of nowhere. You know what I'm saying?

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Rhymes.

[Jade]

Mr. Rhymes. God, girl, don't get me started. Please don't get me started. Don't get me fired up now. Don't get me fired up because I

[Kia]

don't like we were closing this up.

[Jade]

I don't want to like how did

[Kia]

my name get mixed up in.

[Jade]

So listen. But that's what it really is now. The, the institution of the honorary doctor is not something that, you know, is questionable. I think, I think the. Yeah, we've. We're having the wrong conversation. It beat. It beat other each schools. It be someone who decides that they gonna just start a school.

[Kia]

ITT Tech.

[Jade]

You know, just. I'mma start. I'mma start the, you know, Jay's Institute of Fronto Learning.

[Kia]

Like yeah, grab a university Honors Paul Wall with a doctorate.

[Jade]

And you just decide at my college commencement I'm going to give

[Kia]

what.

[Jade]

Okay. And so then. And then it be that those people start calling, because conventionally, most. In most instances, people who get an honorary doctorate don't start calling themselves doctor.

[Kia]

But.

[Jade]

Right. Times have changed.

[Kia]

You know who did. You know who did.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

You know, too.

[Jade]

I digress.

[Kia]

Either way, we were closing this show. We were on a whole.

[Jade]

Child. You see how I got. I got just. Just that quick.

[Kia]

Your butt cheeks. See,

[Jade]

y' all like to. Y' all like to worry my patient.

[Kia]

No, I want to talk about this more because I have thoughts and questions. We should.

[Jade]

We should have that conversation because it's worth having. And I think that there's some learning opportunities for. For all of us, for many of us that we can take a letter. Dig. So, yeah. So I was saying thank you to Nedra. Thank you to everyone who submitted a graduation announcement. As Jay said, you can continue to do so by sending your announcement to hellotngrown.co. and yeah, we'll be back next week to talk all things petty. In the meantime, y' all make sure that you are moisturizing your mind by attending to the business that is yours and yours alone. Okay? Mind your business. Read a book. Read a book.

[Kia]

That's it.

[Jade]

Worry about yourself. Worry about yourself. Go outside, touch some grass, let the sun hit your face a little bit, and just worry about the things that concern you. Also, you want to make sure that you are hydrating. Okay. Drink is just as much water as your body can sustain every day. Okay. And finally, you want to keep your skin moisturized. Critical, because your black will crack if it's dry.

[Kia]

If it's dry.

[Jade]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Kia]

Bye, guys. Yeah. Because we could do a petty peeve episode.

[Jade]

We can. I think this might mean. Oh, we might do that next time. We don't have a episode for next week. You want to do a petty peeve episode?

[Kia]

Let's do a petty beef episode.

[Jade]

We should invite Destiny, the. The reigning king of all pettiness. Yes.

[Kia]

And you know, that has been. He's like, y' all never have me again.

[Jade]

Oh, we gotta have him.

[Kia]

Cause you hate men. And I was like, I do hate men.

[Jade]

He sounds just like him. Okay, I'm gonna call him myself. I'mma call him myself. I'mma call him myself tomorrow. And you know what? His. His ass probably not even gonna answer the goddamn phone, but I' ma call it.

[Kia]

But, sister, no, he probably. He. I bet you he will. And when you invite him, he come see Kia that's why I love you, cuz you invited me. Jade's nasty ass doesn't invite me.

[Jade]

That is good to me.

[Kia]

You can keep that in Ty. I don't.

[Jade]

You can. Prime day is June 23rd through the 26th.

[Kia]

These deals are so appealing, like portable steamers for steaming.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Whoa.

[Jade]

Did I just sing soprano? I think I'm breaking into so epic

[Kia]

deals on air fryers, vacuums and skincare,

[Jade]

I can't stop singing shop. Epic deals this prime day, June 23rd through the 26th.

[Kia]

Ooh, I think that's it.

[Nedra Glover Tawwab]

Nope, there's more luggage.

[Jade]

Smart glasses.