No White Hoochies (Feat: The Hoochie Historian)

Summary

Gettin’ Grown – “No White Hoochies”
Feat. Zorine Truly, The Hoochie Historian (April 28, 2026)

---

Episode Overview

In this episode of Gettin’ Grown, hosts Jade and Kia invite Zorine Truly—the self-proclaimed Hoochie Historian—for a spirited, celebratory, and deeply nuanced discussion on “hoochie culture” and its foundational Black feminine roots. The conversation weaves together cultural reclamation, community healing, and the dynamics of agency, sexuality, and self-expression among Black women, while also addressing heavier themes such as safety, patriarchy, and the ongoing realities of violence against Black women. Throughout, the tone remains joyful and affirming, with genuine laughter, personal anecdotes, and insightful commentary.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. Reflections on Black Women in Music & Media

(02:00–07:29)

• The hosts reminisce about music from the '90s and the influence of icons like Mary J. Blige.
• They touch on the struggles and resilience of women in the industry, discussing themes of loyalty, survival, and trauma.
• Notable quote:

  “There’s a sadness behind the eyes...I think the exhaustion is rooted in just being proximate to this kind of toxicity for so long.”
  — Kia (04:50)

II. Collective Grief, Safety, & Societal Pathologies

(09:19–22:58)

• Kia and Jade process recent news around femicide, especially impacting Black women.
• They contextualize this violence within patriarchy, systemic oppression, and the proliferation of misogynistic “red pill” content.
• Discussed alarming statistics: 299 Black people killed by police vs. 288 Black women killed by partners in 2023.
• Call to name the problem as systemic, not isolated, and create spaces for healing and safety.
• Notable quote:

  “We can’t be the only ones having the conversation if we’re the ones getting killed.”
  — Jade (18:06)

III. Introduction to Hoochie Culture

(27:18–34:41)

• Introducing Zorine Truly: Memphis-born, LA-based digital archivist, and founder of Hoochie Con Festival. She documents and elevates “hoochie culture” through archiving beauty, style, and agency in Black feminine life.
• The hosts gush over finding Zorine’s work online and her documentation of culture for the “Nuance Podcast.”
• On defining “hoochie”:
  • Zorine resists rigid definitions, emphasizing energy, ownership, and community-determined standards:

    “Hoochie culture is defined by ownership…black femininity…womanhood…aesthetics…whatever the fuck we want to define it by.”
    (32:17)

  • Cultural references: “Avon hoochies,” hair, nails, and church beauty standards.

IV. Reclaiming and Expanding Hoochie Identity

(35:57–43:41)

• The term “hoochie” historically pejorative is reclaimed as joyful, expansive, and liberatory.
• Zorine notes how mainstream culture co-opts Black style as “costume” (e.g., “ghetto gold” on Sex and the City) without recognizing or crediting Black origins.
• The loss in translation and erasure of Black creativity in aesthetic trends is critiqued.

V. Power, Sexuality & Subverting Stereotypes

(39:51–42:57)

• Zorine encourages the fullness of Black sexual agency, refusing reductive definitions:

  “There’s power in Black feminine sexuality…Hoochie culture is not solely sexual, but there’s power in it.”
  (40:41)

• She advocates for centering Black joy, pleasure, and multidimensionality.

VI. Challenging Colorism & Beauty Standards

(48:46–52:26)

• Kia shares personal stories of being told dark-skinned women “couldn’t” wear red nails—how hoochie culture refutes these restrictions.
• Zorine highlights the ongoing need for inclusive celebration, recalling how Black women like Whoopi Goldberg and Maya Angelou were maligned but ultimately foundational.

VII. Building Hoochie Con & Archival Practice

(52:31–60:22)

• Hoochie Con: Evolved from Zorine’s archival Instagram project into a real-life festival (rotating cities: LA, Memphis, potentially New Orleans, Atlanta, Detroit)—celebrating Black art, beauty, and entrepreneurship.
• Features include gallery exhibitions, vendor market (press-ons, bundles, food), dance party, and community talk-back.
• Zorine:

  “I found my community…so we get to celebrate.”
  (57:56)

VIII. Owning Self, Finding Community, & Facing Backlash

(63:06–73:32)

• Zorine reflects on her journey from internalizing shame to celebrating her “ghetto”/hoochie identity.
• The affirming moment: seeing Hoochie Con attendees understanding the culture with no need for explanation.
• She discusses the online backlash she received, being grouped with “undeserving” viral figures, and choosing to serve the community who “gets it” over appeasing detractors.
• Notable moment:

  “I realized…none of that means shit to me…That would have broken me before.”
  (72:13)

IX. Naming Black Feminine Agency

(73:32–77:09)

• Kia connects hoochie culture to academic life and the pressure to prove Black womanhood as respectable.
• Both hosts recount refusing to compartmentalize their authentic selves (e.g., wearing “Dr. Robinson” only vs. “Kia”).
• Zorine emphasizes the power of showing up as one’s full self—bonnet, nails, hair, whatever.

X. Hoochie Ancestors and Living Legends

(78:47–83:49)

• The group names “hoochie ancestors” who inspire: Maya Angelou, Eartha Kitt, Ma Rainey, Memphis Minnie, Whitney Houston.
• Living legends: Lunell, Jackée Harry, Lisa Landry, Aretha Franklin.
• Importance of names, honoring unique Black names despite societal pushback.

XI. Sexual Assault Awareness & Hoochie Liberation

(87:31–93:45)

• Zorine powerfully addresses the intersection of hoochie culture and Sexual Assault Awareness Month:
  • Sexual liberation is hard-won, and violence cannot be ignored.
  • Media and society still suggest hoochie self-presentation invites harm—Zorine insists on fighting this narrative.
  • She uses her platform to offset harmful representations and support young girls:

    “I have a responsibility…to remind them that domestic violence, sexual assault…it don’t come with this culture.”

  • She is open about her own survival and the work still needed for true liberation.

XII. Community Connections, Self-Care & Joy Amid Heaviness

(100:01–112:39)

• Hosts and guest reflect on the importance of intentional joy, chosen family, and community connections as self-care strategies.
• They humorously debate beauty products for sensitive skin, share advice, and poke fun at confusing English words (“phthalate”).
• The episode closes on affirmations:
  • Moisturize your mind (mind your business),
  • Drink your water (“keep your insides moisturized”),
  • Moisturize your skin, "your Black will crack if it’s dry and problematic and anti-Black."

XIII. Zorine’s Parting Words

(94:37–98:21, 96:58)

• Zorine encourages listeners to check out hoochicon.com (with hand-printed merch!) and underscores the legitimacy and dynamism of hoochie culture.
• Memorable closer:

  “And don’t forget…there are no white hoochies. I think that’s very important for me to end on.”
  — Zorine Truly (96:58)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “This red pill content on the Internet…this mannish bullshit is out of control.” — Jade (13:07)
• “I love the reclamation—it's not rooted in sexuality, it is about self-expression, doing what we want, and the celebration of our culture.” — Kia (36:56)
• “If you have ever smelled Skin So Soft, then you are part of hoochie culture.” — Zorine (34:26)
• “You can't tell me you going door to door so you can get a pink Cadillac and you not a part of hoochie culture.” — Zorine (34:13)
• “No white hoochies. Mentioned that at the beginning—it's a Black ass culture.” — Zorine (97:18)

---

Key Timestamps

• 02:00–07:29: Music/media reflections on Black women’s resilience
• 09:19–22:58: Collective processing of violences and patriarchy
• 27:18–34:41: Zorine’s intro + hoochie culture defined
• 35:57–43:41: Reclaiming pejorative language + cultural appropriation critique
• 63:06–73:32: Zorine’s journey to authentic selfhood, backlash & community
• 78:47–83:49: Hoochie ancestors and significance of naming/identity
• 87:31–93:45: Addressing Sexual Assault Awareness, safety, and liberation
• 100:01–112:39: Self-care, family, everyday joys, and humorous tangents
• 94:37–98:21: Zorine’s message to listeners + merch plug
• 96:58: “No white hoochies” sign-off

---

Episode Tone & Community Invitation

The discussion is lively, affirming, and deeply rooted in Black womanist joy and survival. The hosts invite listeners to process difficult societal realities collectively, celebrate Black cultural riches, and redefine what liberation and agency look like—one bonafide Hoochie at a time.

Listeners are encouraged to chime in with questions, stories, and connections—because ‘getting grown’ is always a communal practice.

---

Connect with Zorine Truly & Hoochie Con:

• Website: hoochicon.com
• Merch: (Hand-printed, by hoochie. Period.)
• Next Hoochie Con: 2027, location TBA (watch for city announcements)
• Social: Instagram @hoochiehistorian

---

Final Words:
“There are no white hoochies.” — Zorine
“Moisturize your mind and your skin. Mind your business. Your Black will crack if it’s dry and problematic and anti-Black.” — Kia

(For petitions to have the word “phthalate” banned, please apply at the kitchen table.)

Transcript

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema after an initial four month or longer dosing phase. About four in ten people taking Eblis achieved itch relief in clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

Emplis Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis before starting Ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit ebglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone Paying Big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

But that's weird.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail].

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Baby I see you with me lady I just finished having your baby why'd you have to go go and leave me baby you know I'm about to be Swayze I can't stand Levine Shay Day why'd you have to go? Don't leave me what about you? What about me? What about us? What we going to do? What we going to do? What we going to do? Take it away.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

What we going to do? What we going to do? Oh yay. It's been a long time.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I know. You know I was looking for that song the other day and realized they only have that weird Black Rob remix. Oh, that song. Like, I can't.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Wow.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

They don't have the song. I don't. Weird. Hold on. Let me look again. Let me look. Let me look one more time.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Total.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

What about us?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Why you love me?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Nope. They could. Nope. They have do you think about us? Which is a different song.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

They have Brandy's what about Us? They have Jodeci's what about Us? They only have the Black Rob remix of why that's so fascinating. Why is that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Why such a bad boy choice, isn't it? Please.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

What about Us?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Not you trying to snatch things away from 1997. I didn't even realize what about Us was on this. On the Soul Food soundtrack. It was. It was due to licensing issues and rights management surrounding the soundtrack.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

That's why we didn't get no more have that version.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Huh.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, another faulty deal.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Another saved deal. It's always a faulty deal. It's always a faulty deal with anything with that one involved with it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

My God.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, I just don't know how some folks have gotten out unscathed. I'm just grateful.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Same.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Certain people have a Mary. Although we don't know.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Although we don't know. And. And I would say this. I feel like one day, and I don't know how long from now it will be, but one day I feel like we're going to learn depth

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

of.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Of trauma.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Right.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I don't know how it's going to come out, but I just believe that there is so much there.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And I hope that. I hope that we get to. I just want. I just. I want her to be free in that way, but, you know, that's provided. She wants me too.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Because there's a sadness behind the eyes. Right.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And it's like, I think that is.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I say that with the utmost of love because I love Mary and respect.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes. Yeah. Like, admonition, concern. Because I feel. I feel like that's the heaviness behind some of what we. What we perceive as like, oh, she's over it. She don't want to do this no more. I think the exhaustion is rooted and just being proximate to this kind of toxicity for so long. For so long.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah. But she's also of that generation where, yeah, there's a bit of a skewed I. Ideals around loyalty.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Loyalty.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And so.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, I don't know to what extent she feels that way, but I just feel like, you Know, and again,

[Host 2 (Kia)]

she feels that way.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Right. This is all speculation. She could very well be like.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

She could be like, child girl, stay

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

out of my mind.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Your business. She could absolutely feel that way and

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I be like, notice, I would just stand corrected. Okay.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It was just like, sure, sure. Fair.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Maybe you feel. Maybe you don't feel any, but I.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You don't feel any.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, when you witness so much. We know what we know. You know what I'm saying? Allah moesha. And so you know, when you see that much, there's no way that it does not affect you. Whether you choose to share how that affects you or not. There's no way. That's not what it is particularly. That's just my human experience, you know what I'm saying? But I love Auntie. I love her down. Yeah, you know what? I enjoy her. I respect her. I enjoy her unique vocals, you know what I'm saying? She's got a distinct voice that belongs to nobody else. And I, too, look forward to the Lord.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes. I want the Lord to be released. I feel like there's going to be some liberation in that Lord, not only for her, but for all of us. And, you know, as someone born and raised in White Plains, Westchester County.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Exactly, exactly.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

They're like married icon. You kind of like Mary was the one that made it out of the 914.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Hello. Yeah, she did.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And look.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And do you remember when I think when what's. The 411 came out, she was still in Yonkers very much. And they were like, girl, get out of the hood.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Because they had to drag her out. I mean, kicking and screaming because she wasn't gonna go, but.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And she's still very much a Yonkers girl.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Absolutely.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Through and through. Through and through. Through and through. So. But you know, Auntie, you know, should you ever want to sit with us, we would know that we are. We love you. We love you so much. Immensely.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It's a deep love.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Would love to have a dialogue conversation, you know, but maybe you don't want to sit with me because I'm not one to reserve my thoughts. You know what I mean? And I've been calling whatever you deem your relationship with that part. I've been calling him a demon for. Since. Since I just knew in my spirit

[Host 2 (Kia)]

before Jade is not.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

This is not 90s.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I think you all should know that this is not something that has just started to happen. But since.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So I don't know how well I would be able to shake that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

No, I don't Believe you will be. I really don't.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I don't think it would be productive, unfortunately. You know, and I respectfully. Because I get it. There's certain people. I love them down. I would never speak on them.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes to y', all.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Because it's just. I'm not doing that. So.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, I. I guess. I don't know. I don't. I'm not supporting that man by any. Anyway, not interested in that imagination. But my human experience understands why people. Certain people don't have conversations that maybe should be had because it might be helpful.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I feel like in time. I hope that in time will afford us the right opportunity to really.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Is too fresh, maybe.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah. I think that things need to come and surface when they need to surface. Right. You don't pop the pimple before it's ready. Otherwise it'll leave the scar.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It will bruise.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Scar.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay. So you have to let this thing come to a head when it. When it's supposed to. And I'm of the belief that. Yeah, yeah, we don't want to leave a scar. We want to just. We want the healing to be comprehensive and complete. We cannot. We cannot agitate it. We can't agitate the process.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You're not. You're not wrong about that. How are you today? How are you feeling?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You know, Sister, I am safe. I have what I need. I. I would be lying if. And I'm thinking I wanted to talk to you about this because I feel like I. I'll be lying if I. If I said that I was not feeling the heaviness of the time. In addition to sort of what's going on in the world more broadly. You know, the more recent. It seems like a more recent rise. But I mean, like, the statistics are saying that this is just. Or. Or something that has been happening, but the more recent rise in reported femicide among black women. Yeah, just in this last couple months. Couple weeks. Couple months. It's kind of just getting to a point of like. Like what? Like, it's just get it to a point of like, what is actually happening

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

and in so many different facets. Right. Because, you know, we've seen a boom in. In a reporting of these interracial relationships that are resulting in countless femicides. Also, we have those. Those eight babies and those two women in Shreveport, Louisiana.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It's not. It's unfortunate, unfortunately. It's not limited to interracial dynamics either.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

No, no, no. Not limited to. No.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I'm speaking to the different facets of how we are absorbing this news. And so I was reading about a slew of, of, of interracial femicide, interracial relationship femicides as well as the, the, the, the man in Shreveport who had severe mental health issues as a result of his time served in the, in the military and killed eight children and critically, critically injured two black women. And we still don't have all of the ins and outs of that, but it's just, it's just horrific to see. And I don't understand what this increase. I do understand and I don't understand.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, I was to. I want to have some space for collective processing like here at the kitchen table because I feel like, you know, like you said, I do think that it sort of goes without saying that there is some deep seated pathology like, like even like individual like mental health issues that you know, are sort of underneath all of this. But I feel like. Yeah, you know, we also need to talk about this through the lens of like patriarchy and like systems where there's this norm around like domination and objectification and ownership when it comes to women. And you know, just this a way that, that is sort of playing out when we look at all of the cases, you know, you know, the Nancy Mateer and Dr. Serena Fairfax, like all, all of these are instances where women were operating, you know, as Brittney Cooper made a post earlier today saying, you know, when women operate in their agency to leave relationships that are not serving them, they are met with this violent and fatal response. And like, what is that?

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Right?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Like what, what is that?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Very much so.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

So I just feel like certain things need to be named. I also feel like the way that, that you know, we have seen men respond to these events has sort of been unhealthy and, and, and hurtful.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Well, you know, this, this, this. I know, you know, it's a hot buzzword or whatever the you want to call it, but this red pill content on the Internet, oh for sure. This mannish bullshit is out of control. It's out of control and there are so many weak minded. And I'm not, I'm not going to say all because I know a lot of individuals who don't. But there are some weak minded boys and men who are subscribing to this, to this misogynistic and dangerous rhetoric. It's very dangerous for our youth. You know what I'm saying? We see what it has them doing there. Young boys. Yeah, all over the place. But there's, there's like ample reports out of like Naples Italy, where these boys are running around and they grabbing butts and grabbing crotches and like, you know, it's just, it's, it's provoking a really, really dangerous and nasty mindset that turns into physical action. And we're at the end right now of Sexual Assault Awareness Month. April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. And so I think this is an important conversation to broach, particularly because it needs it. You know, it's not exhaustive.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah. And particularly because May is Mental Health Awareness Month. And so I think that these, these things go hand in hand. But I, I think that this is a broader conversation about patriarchy. And I think that, you know, there are. I'm hope that we can just have some conversation that helps to give us some language for really naming this as a systemic problem, because that is what is what it is. Brittney Cooper posted earlier today a statistic that was kind of chilling. 299 Black people were killed by the cops in 2023. 288 Black women were killed by their ex or current partners also in 2023. So this is couched within, like, we gotta talk about this. Like, it's like we keep having this conversation as if these are individual and isolated issues and not a function of this systemic problem. And so I'm just hopeful that we can find some space to really deal in brass tacks about what is on the table and call things things. That's my hope. And I'm hoping I'm gonna try to reach out and find some people that can come and join us to really have the conversation that gives us awesome language and tools for being aware of what's happening so that we can also arm ourselves and be as safe as possible negotiating this really eerie and unsafe and uncertain time.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And I'm dealing with that. I'm feeling unsafe in a lot of different ways and just trying to, like, find my way through that. And I, I'm still searching for, like, how to find my bearings in all of this. If I'm being completely transparent, I'm still reeling from the news because I feel like in just the last six days, it's been a woman every day.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That's like when you said 288 women in a year, that's, that's like a little over two months where it wasn't happy. That's every day minus two months and some change. That's insane. And, you know, I want to go back. I know I spoke about it. I meant, you know, we, we, we laughed. We also were genuinely perplexed but we spoke a while back about, like, we. Mark Lamont Hill, for example. Right. I'm not holding him responsible, but we spoke about him interviewing Rachel Dolezal and, like, how absolutely not a motherfucking anybody needed that. But when I think about. When I think about rage, bait like that, because that's what it is. And I think I was disappointed because I was like, you're better than that. I think about men like Mark. I think about men like Joel, who we've had on the show before, you know, who these men with voices. And Joel. Joel's in a category where he's like, no, let me talk to my. Let me talk to my fellow black men about how it's okay to tap into your softness and what that can look like and how vulnerability is still strength, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I use Mark as an example because you have the intelligence, you have the knowledge, and you have the voice, and you're in a. You're in a space where also that is necessary, but you have all of these things, and you could use that to speak to fellow black men about issues like this.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

We need that type of allyship. And so there's no time right now. And no, that doesn't mean we can't have light conversations. Obviously, Key and I are trying to balance out having important conversations, culturally important conversations, things that are important to the community, and also balance that with our own mental and emotional health by making sure that we have lightness in between there. So that's not to say that we can't. All of those things can exist. But why are we platforming somebody like this nutty bitch when you could really be having conversations that are necessary and. And. And commissioning to your fellow niggas in a real and honest and true way? And so I think that's where a lot of my frustration stems from, in examples like what I said, because I'm just using that as an example, you know, And I appreciate when I do hear individuals like Deontay Kyle who are willing to talk to other black men and talk to men in general and say, hey, you know, we're talking. They're talking to everybody. They're talking to men, too. And when, like, when they know, hey, we be on some bullshit when we subscribe to these type of ideologies. And so we need more of that. We can't be the only ones having the conversation if we're the ones that are getting killed. Killed. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

So for sure, yeah. I'm hopeful that we can because, I mean, it's a conversation that needs to be had from a lot of different angles and including a lot of different voices. And so, again, this is something that's happening in real time. And, and I think we can try to create space to sort of process this all together because that's what getting grown is all about. But just in the vein of, like, I know I, you know, you. All you asked me was how I was doing, but this is just what's sitting on my heart, in my head right now in a very real way. I'm worried about us.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

No, you took, you took the, you took it the, the feeling right away from me because that the, the killing of those eight children and, and those two women in critical condition is really sitting so deeply on my spirit. Like, it's been sitting on my spirit all day.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Me too.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, and I just, I, yeah, I'm feeling, I'm feeling the heaviness as well. So I'm grateful that you said it. I'm grateful that we're in a space where we can have honest conversation. Conversation about it. And I do agree with you that this can be an expansive conversation around awareness, around protection, etc. Etc. You know, so we are just praying for everybody, you know what I mean?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Often and out loud we can do right now. Yeah, yeah, it is.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Out loud.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Often out loud all day long. Because. Yeah. And I mean, I want. I, I am hopeful that these kinds of horrific things and, and I hate to say this because I'm not saying that I'm advocating that these things happen or continue to happen, but I, I'm hopeful that at least these kinds of horrific instances will wake us up to the realities that, that, you know, of all the ways that these things are existing and contributing and building upon each other and like, because all this boils up, it comes to a head, seeds get planted and eventually there is fruit.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You know, and so it takes time. It takes time. It's not one and done in any, in any way or stretch of the imagination. So, you know that I'm hopeful that we can continue to create space to have the conversations that start to unpack these things. That's the only way we're going to be able to, to work through it is if we name it and face it and like, try to wrap our heads and hearts around it so that we know how to move differently.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Absolutely.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And in ways that keep us safe, to keep our kids safe and keep even our partners safe. You know what I'm saying this is not. We joke all the time, but I mean, this is not coming from a place of hate or indifference to black men. This is, this is the plea. It's grounded in love and really wanted to understand, like, why what is going on?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You go read some bell hooks or something. Like, I just, I, we. I just need y' all to tap into, you know, your hearts. I need you to tap into your humanity. I need you to tap into, you know, your daughterhood or whatever the is your motivation. Tap the into. I, I pray that it is just simple humanity. But my God, if you've got to dig deep, nigga, then do so.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Wow. But no, all, all of that and we'll continue to talk through it. So if you, if you all are also sitting with the weight of what we're walking through, you're not alone. Let us know if there are things that you want us to sort of unpack and talk through as it relates to this matter or other matters. You know, the, the kitchen table is always a one. It's always one where, you know, Jade and I are not dominating the conversation. We very much want our community to, to join us and talk through it with us. So y' all know how to. To express, you know, in the comments via email. Let us know, Chime in. This is something we gotta figure out together.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah. A community processing. Maybe we'll have a community processing episode with you all's thoughts. So we would love to hear from you. Hello. At getting grown. Co you switching gears? Attend. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm here. You know.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay. We're doing the best we can. Yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

All. Everything you said, everything that was said. So my God, today we do have a good kitchen table though.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

With one of my favorite follows on the Internet. I am really excited because we're getting ready to talk to the hoochie historian, which I think is such a fitting way to also close out sexual awareness. Sexual Assault Awareness month. There are, you know, intersections and also celebrations within the conversation. So please stay tuned for the kitchen table. Sit with us, go grab yourself a little wine or whatever it is you need to do, and let's go talk to Zorine.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Let's do it.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with Epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about four in 10 people taking Eglis achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

Empclus Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Epglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to Epglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis. Before starting ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit eglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You trying to be more intentional about what you wear on a day to day? Quint's got you. They've got pieces that feel easy, comfortable and still put together. Quince uses premium materials like 100% European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim. Their lightweight linen pants, dresses and tops start at $30 and are effortless, breathable and easy to wear on repeat. You can mix and match with the best of them. Okay everything at quintess price 50 to 80% less than similar brands and they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, not brand markup. Now y' all know I love sharing my latest Quince finds and I think I just found my favorite pants for the season. The Bella Stretch Wide leg jeans. First of all I am a child of the seventies in my mind and the way these are high waisted but hug the hips really makes you feel very walona, you know, a la good times. They're also organic cotton and they feel really good. They're very soft like I would wear them on the plane. Good. And you know I don't believe in jeans on a flight. Oh and I got them in Coffee Bean brown. I am the after party. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to Quince.com grown for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com grown for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com grown

[Host 2 (Kia)]

welcome back to the Kitchen Table. And I am excited because we are continuing our tradition of having the best guest ever. And I've been looking forward to this conversation for a very long time because I am a big fan of this young lady and her work. I would love to welcome our guest, Zorine Truly, AKA the Hoochie Historian, to the Kitchen table. Zorreen is a digital archivist and Hoochie Con Festival founder, building community around elevating hoochie culture. Zareen is based in la, but born in Memphis, one of our favorite cities. And she's a historian who documents everything from our name, style, iconic romances, to our community gossip and moments that move the culture. Her work is rooted in archiving and creating space for the multitude of who we are through beauty, style and exercising agency. Everybody welcome Zorine AKA the Hoochie Historian, to the Kitchen Table. Hey, Zorine.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Hey.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Oh, welcome. We're so excited to have you.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Thank you for having me.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

No, it's our honor. It is our pleasure. I think I found you on the Internet during the pandemic, probably. Maybe the pandemic.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And that's like. That was like, I was so. The pandemic is when I was like, you know what? Nobody's listening to my podcast because people are very much living in a. In a different kind. It was like social media, what people wanted to see you and I have been doing a podcast called the Nuance Podcast for two and a half years before Nuance. Remember when Nuance was a boom, people was like, yeah, Who folded

[Host 2 (Kia)]

ahead of the time.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay, I. Where you find me? Was it Tik Tok?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

No, Instagram. You know, I'm a old. I'm a. Yeah, I'm. I'm a old. So I. I don't Tik Tok much.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Me too.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

No, I'm like, I was born a

[Host 2 (Kia)]

lot for auntie to come.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah, I was born. It's so I. I will make a video once every six months and post it on there.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Can be a lot. Yeah, it can. The young folks, it's a lot. But you gotta get. You gotta get to old beach Tick Tock. Like, you gotta really. But now things are changing. Okay, there. I'm actually done posting on Tick Tock.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

They have now they've made it where when you post a video, they allow AI remixing.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I'm sorry, what? Like off rip.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Like, you can't opt out. You can opt at all I have a hundred parts of hoochie history.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Oh, yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Over 100. I have over. I believe it's like 400 videos on that platform. So you have to go do each video and opt out. That's the kind of games they playing around now.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I hate it.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I hate it.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I hate it. Well, speaking of hoochie history.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

This is so exciting, because hoochie is such a. First of all, it's one of my favorite words. It always has been. And, you know, it's such a. It's such a us word. It's such a cultural word. And so I would love for you to, like, just start us off on your journey. Journey. How you got started in this work and define what a hoochie is for us.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay. So first of all, I always say, let's not get too deep into the definition and more so lean towards who the hoochies are, the energy.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Then we can define them. Right. Because think a lot about, like, the punk movement. Right. Or things like rock and roll. Like, I use the Rock and Roll hall of Fame as a good example, because in the beginning, it was very strict on what they considered what was rock and roll and who deserved to be in that hall of fame. And it's a lot like hoochie culture, where the people are the determining factor of the definition.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I get real weird about it because I never want to say, oh, she has the nails. A hoochie has the hair. Hoochie has this, this, and this. Because sometimes hoochie don't have it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right, Right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It's a cultural thing. I would say hoochie culture is defined by ownership. Hoochie culture is defined by black femininity. It's defined by womanhood. It's defined by aesthetics, is defined by whatever the fuck. We want to define it by those that are involved in the culture. We get to point that out. I always think about when we were kids, and maybe you don't have this experience, but, you know, you might put on a little shout dress, little shout shows, and look at you. What are you doing with them Gucci clothes on?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And it was never. It wasn't in malice. So I think that for black women, hoochie culture is defined by the trends that we've started, the artwork, the beauty culture of it. The hair culture of it is so much. And it's forever, like, blooming and changing. And the way I got into hoochie culture, I was born into it, thank God.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay. Come on.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I can remember hearing the word hoochie all the time coming up. Right. But it was always derogatory. It was like you didn't want to be a hoochie or like, when we was with our aunties, with our cousins and stuff, they wasn't necessarily downing hoochi culture, but hoochi was defined by what you were wearing.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Strictly. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And that always made me curious about it. And not only curious, I was seeing my aunts and my cousins and my mom with the hair, with the nails, the.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

The.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

The lipstick, the lip glosses, the. The Avon hoochies. Okay. Because you can't tell me you going doe to dough so you can get a pink Cadillac and you not a part of hoochie cult.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Something. If you never. If you have ever spelled, like, skin so soft, then you are a part of hoochie culture.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

You are part of culture. And then it's also, you know, it's everywhere. It's in church culture.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Everybody wants to look like the first lady. She's. She's the beauty standard within the church. Right. Who. Whose hat could be the tallest?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

The.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

The hats are a reflection of the hairstyles. If you look at the. The hu. Styles, the beehives and the French rolls, those. Those dial back to those hats, you know what I'm saying? The outlandish colors and everything. So it was always all around me, but I hadn't yet figured out the word for it. Yeah, sushi was always. You know, that word was always around us. So I started to do more research on, like, okay, this is mentioned so much in popular culture, but what are they getting? Like, where's the. What are we crediting them for?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Only sexual things. Only, you know, the negativity. But we can also point out and say, hey, this person is a hoochie. But. But how do we define it? So that's kind of what got me started, is just like giving honor and credit to the women that I look up to.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Absolutely.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah. I love the reframe. I love the reclaiming. To me, it's like a reclamation of a word that some. Many have leveraged in a way that is pejorative. Right. But it is much more about what I feel I have found so relatable and so enlightening and illuminating. Why I love your content so much is that it. It demonstrates it. Right. It's not just a bunch of words, but you use images and callbacks.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Throughout history to actually show us what the characteristics and traits of this culture are in real time and all the ways that it show up. And most of them I will say, are not sexual in nature. It is much more about. It is about self expression. It is about, you know, doing what

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

we want and celebration of our culture.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah. It's setting the trends and doing things that, you know, that we create. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and that's the trend, the trend setting aspect. The way we dress. And not every hoochie dress is the

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

same way, but the way we dress.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right. How, like how we put it on. And there's resistance in that. There is like power in that.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

So much power in that power. Because like even down to the way that we walk with a switch switching

[Host 2 (Kia)]

and not on purpose, like, no, we don't.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And it's. And then it even comes down to a language. We speak a different language. And I thought that it was unfair that black feminine culture was just one thing. When you see something, oh, that's what black girls were. Oh, that's black. That's not enough. That's not enough. Other cultures get the opportunity to have these subcultures that are celebrated and credited, but we don't. Absolutely everything has to be either black or white. And it's not.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Or credited in a derogatory wake. Because you made a recent post actually with a Sex in the City image and it was Sarah Jessica Parker. Oh. Cuz it, it, it really irritated my spirit.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, and she said in the clip, you know, they were like, you wear gold. And she was like, yeah, I wear ghetto gold for fun. Or essentially alluding to it as a costume, which so many others have viewed our culture, especially our feminine culture as a costume, you know what I'm saying? And are just now getting to a place where they're like, oh, I want the ghetto girl nails. Or I want, you know, a neck tat like now it's cute, right?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Or and now they call it a different thing.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Exactly, exactly that. So, yeah, that's why I wanted to hear your definition of, of a hoochie with you doing this work. Because like Kia said, said it's not rooted in a sexual nature. Even though the origins of the word.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Sure.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

But I think even the origins of the word can be reclaimed.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Because it comes from hoochie coochie. You doing that coochie coochie.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, exactly. Hoochie coochie. Dancing the hoochie coochie man. It is, it's. It's the definition of cool.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It's when you hear Muddy Waters, I'm the hoochie coochie man. You like? Oh, yeah, he's that.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

He attracts. Yeah. You know, he. He. And then when you think about the blues legends of hoochie culture, it's the exact same thing. It's braggadocious.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And it is sexual in nature. And I always challenge people because it's not all about the sex. But guess what? It is also about the sex.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I think that is fine. It's when they minimize it to just

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

a sexual relationship, that part. And.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And thinking about it in a reductive way.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It's not the reductive way. Right, Exactly. Where it'. It's kind of like I feel like I'm always fighting to make people understand that it's okay for black women to be solely sexual. Hoochie culture is not solely sexual. It's not completely rooted in sexuality. But that there's power in blacks. Feminine sexuality. Absolutely.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Absolutely.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

But to talk about the sex in

[Host 2 (Kia)]

the city,

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

which I want to go back to. The sexual. I want to go back to that, too, as well.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I think a lot of people forget recent history. We're not making this stuff up. Y' all were hypercritical. You've made our culture a joke. It's funny to you as a person outside of the culture. Call somebody boo. Call somebody like that. That. That's. That's tongue in cheek for you. That's funny to. To call your. To name your dog Darius, to name your dog Lemontre, to like. For us, that's a part of our culture. So, yeah, if we do that, if we call him Bark Terrius, that's funny. Right? But that's a call back to. Y' all have a. Y' all think that everything we do, instead of it being artistic and important and a part of history and worth noting. It's a. It's a joke to you.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It's a joke. You mock it.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

You always. I. I just. It bothers me. And that's why I always post that, because we look at Carrie Bradshaw as the glamour girl, or they do.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

A lot of people do. Right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And I love Sex in the City, but it also is a reminder of recent history that just wearing gold for black people.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

A name plate. A name plate.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And she had door knocking earrings. Y' all remember that? Yeah, she wore those carry earrings for two seasons.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I hate it.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

For two seasons she wore that. And then it's like, okay, fast forward to today. They're wearing the door knocking earrings. They're. They're approaching the beauty practices like our aunts, like us, like our cousins, like we did in eighth grade, you know? And then it's being. Oh, those are Mark Jacob nails.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Girl, don't get me.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Hello.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

What are we doing? Somebody needs to say something.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

The bonnets. The bonnets are sending me to a place. I thought, I want y' all to know. The bonnets are really my 13th reason.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Plane.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I was on the plane two weeks ago. No, actually, since we was going to Atlanta just this past weekend, I'm sitting in D.C. waiting to board my plane to Atlanta. This little. This little teenage white girl, she couldn't have been no more than 15 years old, getting online in to board the plane with her parents. And she got on a mint green bonnet, and she probably had to match her, like, dirt dark to match her Dartmouth sweatshirt. Like, she had, like, a Dartmouth, like, hoodie, and she had this mint green bonnet. And I was just like, yo, they

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

need to wear it. They get to flaunt. It's never a question of how were you raised. Where you come from are you put together? And that's why I love hoochie culture. Because hoochie culture says, I don't give a right. Whatever you think I am, it doesn't matter, because I'm rooted in who I actually am. Damn. I can be a graduate. I could have a master's degree. I could be a doctor. And I can wear a bonnet. Or I can wear long nails. I can have red lipstick. I. I can. I can have a bbl. I can change my body the way I want to. I can keep it the same. I can wear makeup. I can. Everything that you want to be is inside of hoochie culture. And that's why. Absolutely. Come on over to hoochie culture. You want somebody, like, dancing in the video?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Seriously. I think about it. I think one of the first posts that I saw from you, this probably was years ago. You did a carousel of Jackie Harry as Sandra Clark on 227.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Sandra.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Exactly. Mary.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Mary.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It stopped me in my tracks because as someone who watched and watched 227 Fan Club, my favorite shows ever. I remember being a young girl and watching 227 same and being completely enamored with Sandra Clark. Like, the character of Sandra Clark. And not because of. I loved her confidence. I love her it factor. I love that she owned who she was. She was never afraid to talk to anybody. And she dressed like, like, no matter what. I mean, I mean, and I'm like, even in her, like, house clothes, her bathrobe, it was always, always right, always. You know, the face was always beat. The nails was always done. And it was just A. A confidence that she exuded. And to me, when I think about understanding and thinking about womanhood, I remember being a little girl and aspiring to that. And I remember because she always wore red nail polish. Right. And I know that that is something classic. And, and I remember this was. I remember being in my like as a little girl and growing up in your church. Like, I remember not being allowed to wear red nail polish. It being very like frowned upon. And it was fast.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah, it was fast.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Young girls. And so then I just sort of. Sort of like. And because I also remember this is this. I don't know what triggered this, but I also remember feeling like I, I could not wear red nail polish because I was dark skinned. I don't know exactly where that message originated, but I, that didn't come out of nowhere.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, that was a thing for a very long time telling darker skinned people and especially darker skinned women that they could not wear light colors. They could wear red lipstick and red nails.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

What are we talking about exactly?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And I remember there was a guy, I remember a guy, I was maybe in my early 20s and he said it, he said, like I said, you know, I kind of want to try red nail polish just because I've been getting my nails done since prom. I got my nails done for prom and ain't look back so. But these nails have been the same nails I love. Quite literally for 30 some years. I've been wearing my nails long and I just feel like this is how my nails grow. I don't recognize my hands without nails. I struggle very much in Covid because I could not get them done. But I remember like I will always wear, even when I would get my designs, I would really do neutral colors. And I remember wanting red nail polish so bad. And I said something, I wasn't really dating this guy. I might have been talking to him and I mentioned that I wanted red nails. And he was like, you can't. And because he said it, I went and got it. Right. Because he said it, I went and got it. And it changed my life because it was like, I love them, they look so good. And he, when I, when I came home with them, he was like, oh, oh, I'm into it. And I was like, now you into it? Exactly. But I just remember that and Sandra Clark like inspiring that in me. And it just, just really opened up my eyes to all the ways that the programming and the socialization had warped my thinking.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And so I really appreciate within your content. Like that's how I feel like there's so much of it that is, like, liberatory because it does, like, re. It forces us to question the mental models that we have been steeped in all of our lives and really say, well, why is that? Like, what is that about? Like, who said that and why? And is that something that you intended to do from the outset?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Is.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Is it. Has it always been about challenging? Yeah. Or is it just, like, you know, by virtue of walking fully in the framework? Is it just happened?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Or was it an intention, Everything with intention. I noticed that when I first started talking a lot about hoochie culture, a lot of the people that would come up were all, like, thin, light skinned. Like, it was very. Like they were trying to bring that beauty standard into hoochie culture, and this ain't that. And that's why. Okay, so, you know, I have the hoochie historian page and Hoochie Khan.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And a lot of how I feel about beauty standards and beauty practices is shown on the hoochie con page because it's a archival, so you see all types of people. But for the hoochie historian, that's me. So I get an opportunity to say, hey, y' all, remember when we came up and they was calling Whoopi, they was calling Wesley, they was calling all these people unattractive.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Because they were dark skinned, which is ridiculous. Not anything. And not for nothing, I think it's important to understand where we have actually evolved from, because it was not that long ago. They do. You know, they do the thing. They do this thing with black history where it's like, once we get to a certain spot, then we're supposed to forget everything that brought us here.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

It was so long ago. But it wasn't.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It was so long ago. Like, you remember when this man told you, you. You could not wear a red lipstick or. Or red nails? I remember when my mama told me I couldn't wear an ankle bracelet, because if you wear an ankle bracelet, you got to have something to go with it. Hello. You know, there were these things, you know, I got a lot to go with it. Now, now, hold on. Let me show you this icloud. But no, I just. I feel like it's so important to call it out and to celebrate black womanhood in every shade and every size.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And, you know, they. They have tried to make you feel corny for being, you know, inclusive, you know, but it's like, I'm not including nobody that ain't foundational to culture. They look, we look. I. You know, who I. I go to all the time and think about is Maya Angelou because she would come with a nasty slick back, a little worn out red lip, baby. Like she been drinking coffee all day and nothing else. A little flouncing blouse and red lip. And come. She would come as she is.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes, yes.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And was respected and renowned, you know, and. And I. I always felt like it's important to really give credit to the foundation of the culture. And the foundation of the culture is not always going to look like Halle Berry and Babs. It's just not. It's just not true. It's just not. It's not. It's not real. When we talk about we. The blueprint, that includes everybody.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Because we all built this.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Absolutely.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah. So I hope that answered the question.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Absolutely.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So many.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So many answers, so many questions, so much conversation. I want to get a little bit into Hoochie Con, actually.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I want you to talk to us about your. Your archival process. What Hoochie Khan is, how that's different from the Hoochie historian. I know you mentioned that it is archive archiving, but can you go a little bit deeper into what Hoochie Con is and what. How your process has been in building that?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah. Okay. So Hoochie Khan is my baby. Hoochie Con is. It started off as just an online archival space where I would collect all these photos that were important to me. Like, I just had all of this in my phone. Like, I would see the PCJ box and be like, that means something to me.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

My hair never came out like that ever. And then I would like connect dots to different things where I would be like, wait, was that Latoya Lucket on the COVID of the PCJ box? And then it would just be like this rolling thing. And I had. I was like, I gotta share this. So I started sharing online on ignorance all the photos that I would find. I would, you know, spend time watching Hair Wars. I would look at, you know, all the hair magazines. I started to be a collector of black men's magazines, like the Pictorial magazine because I thought we uplift all the sexually liberated women except for the black ones. So I was like. Then I found out, you know, Pictorial magazine had collecting cards. You know, like they like baseball cards, but they butt ass naked. Love it. I will show you when I can show you. I have some. And I think that's so cool too, because it's like, it's giving a name to the women who are brave enough to say, this is my Body. I. I really know you want this. Buy this magazine. When I show you these pictures, you're gonna be like, okay.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I'm so excited.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, they're great. So what I end up doing was I started doing the archival work online. It got rough because I would really pour my heart into these photos and really have, like, these little essays under. And then people just started copying and pasting my essays and taking the pictures. So I had to figure out a way to kind of balance my ideas with also sharing the archival work. And that's how hoochiecon came about, because I was like, what if I did a festival where it was like, you know, all black? You know, we celebrate in hoochie culture. So that's where it came from. It came from the archival. And now it is a festival that I do do every other year where we celebrate black art. Only black artists allowed, period. So we have the gallery portion where we have a collection of black art. I also do a dance party. We have a talk back where we just, like, have actual conversation with the community about what it is to be a hoochie. What hoochie culture really is, is a vendor market with all black vendors. Absolutely amazing, because a lot of it is. Goes back to hoochie culture, where we have people who are selling press songs. We had somebody selling bundles. Yes. You know, pineapple juice. You know, like, things to make you feel good, look good. And then, you know, we had, like, food trucks and. And things like that. So it's come together in a. That I just. I'm not gonna say I never expected, but I was just so happy to find my community, like I found my community. So we get to celebrate.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

When is the next.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

The next hoochie con is next year.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

2027.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I'm looking around.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

2023 was in LA, and then 2025 was in Memphis. Right. So are we shopping for a new city location?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

We shopping for a new.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay, okay.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

New Orleans. Been tapping me on the shoulder.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay, I see that.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I see that.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Atlanta.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I see Atlanta.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Detroit, obviously, for obvious reasons, those girls are like, yes. Oh, my God. Detroit. Like, yes. The hair, the nail, the furs, the. Everything, just luxury. And a couple of the girls been hitting me up, like, come to Miami. Me immediately come to Miami. So I'm just.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I'm.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That's the sad. Go ahead into the sad music.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I'm doing my research. I'm figuring out where. Where it's going to be most. Except I've had the Oakland Grills, the Oakland Hoochie's been hit me up too.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay. I can see. See, I said everything. Everything appealed except the Miami. I don't know. Yeah, you know, not. I'm not the Miami Hoochie. No shade to you all.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

All.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know what I mean? It's just, it's not my go to like when you listed all these other locations. That's the beautiful thing I love too about the way that you highlight the culture is it is all aspects across the. Across the gambit of the diaspora of us as black women. Right. And I love how we come from different regions that are known for different things, but also there are so many features and facets that tie us together as well. And so I love, I love how you celebrate that and I love how how you speak about this in such a celebratory way. I'm ready for the next hoochie con. Personally.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Same. Let me know.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I'm tired already, child. We just be wearing a hoo. Down to the. What you said though about like this connecting point that we all have, that's my favorite part. Because when we come together, we get an opportunity like, like our hoochie ancestors did when they came for. From you know, Arkansas, Memphis, Chicago. All of us came together for these hair shows for Freaknik. Like people do not. I feel like people do not understand how monumental Freaknik was for black fashion. Like the girls do not get. They don't get it. They do not get it.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

It's a blueprint.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

That's what I want Hoochie be. I want Hoochie Khan to be that. I want it to. To be long lasting and something that people say, oh, I saw this hairstyle at Hoochie Khan and I gotta try. You know, I saw these nail. I. I want Hoochie Khan to be. You know what Freaknik started off as?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I love that. Yeah, I do love that.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I think not what it turned into.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Right. Let's make a distinction.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Hello.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema. After an initial four month or longer dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

MGLIS Liber Kizumab LBKZ A 250ml the milligram per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older. Who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglass before starting ebglis. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit eglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. With Plan B Emergency contraception, we're in control of our future. It's backup birth control you take after unprotected sex that helps prevent pregnancy before it starts. It works by temporarily delaying ovulation and it won't impact your future fertility. Plan B is available in all 50 US states at all major retailers near you with no ID, prescription or age requirement needed. Together we got this. Follow plan B on InstaAnB. One step to learn more Use as

[Ryan Reynolds]

directed Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee full [e-mail]

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I love that you are building and creating spaces to that celebrate you know all of the different dynamic ways that this culture exists and I think think you know like you said there's so many lessons that you know hoochie culture can teach us. Yeah and I'm curious about you know have you ever thought about what younger you Cuz I don't know I feel like younger you is in there somewhere and how like in what ways is this work in service of her?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Oh younger Sorene this is first of all young me thinks that this mate is cool as hell. Yeah just like everything that the younger me has always been more refined and more more confident and able to really express. Yes, the younger me was and still is, but was a girl from the hood who got a lot of opportunities that the people around me did not get. But it put me in a place where I was constantly trying to assimilate and to be accepted and even not just within, like, other cultures, but within my own. When I went off to college, I was getting called ghetto. I was getting called stupid because of the way that I spoke. Or, you know, maybe I, you know, wasn't as. As textbook savvy or I didn't. I couldn't find the right words. But I was always smart. I was always articulate in a way that if you were really listening.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

So the younger me is so proud that I have been able to find a balance of who I am and who I want to be. And. And I'm just. I. I can't say enough how proud I am of myself, because the moment I stepped into who I really am, I found a community.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, exactly.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I found a community of people who felt the same way, who were. Who felt, you know, that there was honor in being called ghetto, that there was something special about hoochie culture and something special about all of us not being a monolith and all of us not being classy. And, you know, we have to, you know, make sure we forward, facial posture.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And what is classy, honestly? Because when I think about, even to your point, like, us not being a monolith. One of my favorite hoochies, which is going to be one of my next questions to you, is one of my dear friends, Chanel.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I call her Chanel Yair. And Chanel is one of the most. She is probably. We call. Also call her Barbie. She is the most fabulous known to man. She's always going, you go over her house, she's going to put together a cocktail and some beautiful glassware. She's going to make a charcuterie board. She has a. An extender for your blunt to put in there. So it's like. Would love her. You will love Chanel. Chanel is every. Every bit of fabulous to me. And Chanel's favorite drink is Alize. It's her favorite drink in the world. She loves what color the. The classic passion fruit. She likes the passion fruit.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

She class.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

She's classy.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

She's a classy. She keep it in the fridge.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Is she from the hood? But she is.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

She is.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Literally, when I think when somebody says who's the most classy and most fashionable fabulous, you know, Chanel's. Who comes to my mind. And so I love that we're not a monolith, and I love that words and descriptors that, that are not necessarily applied to us and, and the ways that they are to other people actually can be. And you can still have that, that light of ghetto around you, and you can still be classy, and you can still be all of these things and be celebrated in that way. So, so that's why we love the work that you're doing.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

What, what, what was the moment? Because you just spoke a little bit about it, but what was the moment that really, that really, like, brought you to, like, all right, I'm fullness in who I am. Right, because you felt dimmed at other points in your life. So what was it that really made you say, you know what, Fuck all that. I'm going to be this. I've been called ghetto now. I'm celebrate. I, I celebrate that term. What was it that brought you to that place?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

The moment that brought me to that place. You know, that's kind of hard to pinpoint, but I would say the moment that I realized that everything was kind of falling into place and I looked around, I was like, okay, like, I can breathe. Like, people under, they get it.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Wow.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I would say the first hoochie con, which was pretty recent. I would say that when I looked around and I saw that, I didn't have to explain the importance of curved nails. I didn't have to explain the importance of if I, if I have my whole ass out, then I still get to decide if it's yes or no. I didn't have to explain. I didn't have to go down my resume. I always felt like I had to, I had something to prove to people. And in that moment, I wasn't, I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was just celebrating who I am and celebrating the people who were like me. And in that moment, I, I, I felt I knew where I was going. And I, I didn't know where it was going to take me, but I knew where I was going because it was authentic to who I am. I didn't have to, like, try. I didn't have to go overboard. The only thing I had to do was put in the work to honor the people that, people that I care about and the people that inspire me. So it was, it was like, it was perfect because it was like, I'm pouring into this and it's pouring back into me.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And, and that feeling, you know, you know, as a black woman, a Lot of times, we don't get that feeling into work. We pour into our. Create our creative endeavors. We pour into these things, and then we. We exhaust at the end of the day. And sometimes nobody sees it, nobody understands it, but to look around and it's a bunch of black women having a good time, dancing to music, look on the walls, and it's artists and, you know, the. The media's coming out and they're saying, oh, look at what this is. That. That really. That really put me in my place face. And even the backlash after the first Uchi Con, it made me look at myself like, do you. Do you. Do you care about the people who don't get it, or are you doing it for.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

For the people who do? Yeah, that put me in my place

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

because I was like, I was. Baby. I was getting called everything but a child. I was getting. They had. They had. They had videos about how me and Sexy Red.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Wait, they put you in the same category?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

They put me in the same category. There were videos that were, man. I mean, 100k views on videos. This was before my social media had even, like, went up a little bit. I. I really had to sit with that. I had to be like, okay, but,

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

yeah, so somebody who is. Who celebrates MAGA and all of the values that go against who we are as a people gets put in the same category as somebody who is doing niche but very important work to amplify a certain. A particular aspect of our culture.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, they were ready. I'm not a Reddit girl. There was Reddit threads about me over there on Twitter. They were saying that. That, you know, they were doing research on me. They were like, oh, only thing I see is that her brother p. Like, they were bringing up, you know, the murder of my brother. They were. It was so sorry.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

People are awful.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It was crazy. But again, it put me in my place. I realized, like, none of that means

[Host 2 (Kia)]

to me exactly right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Whereas the younger me or the. The one before I stepped into who I am into and really learn from hoochie culture, that would have broke me. That would have hurt me in a

[Host 2 (Kia)]

way that I. Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I might have never, ever done this again. I might have never done. Never done an interview. Never done. So that I would say that is the. The time that I really stepped into. Like, I'm sorry, truly. Like, what are you talking?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Confirmation? It was a confirmation.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, it was confirmation.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I think that to me, that is sort of what embodies the whole idea. And just talking to you, this conversation has been so, like, it resonates so much with me because I feel like if we are to think about what it really means, the whole culture, what it represents, sense it is. It is us deciding who we are. Yeah. Versus subscribing to what other people say, what other people, who other people have told us that we are, and the many, many, many different ways that black women have made that decision or how that decision is expressed.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yep.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And I think that that is, you know, you. Not only to be celebrated. I think it's core. Because, you know, even listening to you, that is when the lights came on, that's when you step out of. Of this space. I've been thinking a lot about this in my own sort of personal work. Well, even, like, when I think about who I want to be as an academic, you're trained to, like, the whole point is about proving your expertise.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You build this body of. You build this body of knowledge and skill in one specific area, and you spend the whole breadth of your life and career proving to other people that you know what you're talking about. And then you get on the other side, and it's like, but I know what I'm talking about, and I don't have. I don't need you to. To validate that anymore. I'm ready to actually do the things that I know. Right. And so, like, I think moving from this space of proving to this space of. Well, I know. Of knowing.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Right.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Of knowing and existing in like. And when I think about all the ways that we've talked about black women doing that is we decide what we want to wear, how we want to dress.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

How we want to show up, how we want to see speak. And when I think about growing up, coming up, people would tell me, remember I had a supervisor that said, oh, well, when you come to work, I want Dr. Robinson. I don't want Kia. Kia. I know Kia wears her nails long, and she got short hair, and she is Dr. Robinson.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And I had to make that clear to her. Like, I remember I had to say that I do not separate the two. I am Kia. If I wear Jordan Gardens and. And Yankee fitted and these long nails, I'm still the brilliant scholar that is published.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Hello.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And every bit of Dr. Robinson. Like, those things don't separate for me. And I'm not gonna wear a boxy suit to your conference, girl.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Because that's not who I am. Okay. I'm gonna get every bit of this leather pencil skirt if that's what I so choose.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

But you know what I'm saying, honey?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You know what I'm saying?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

That was very much a part of me sort of stepping into, like, who I want to be. Like, I didn't want to be no square academic because that's not who I am. That's not why I did it.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Right.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Like, you know, I didn't go to school to turn into nobody else.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

No, that's a word. Because coming from where I came from, it was like, okay, you know, I. I did everything academically that I felt I needed to do to have this validation. And then, you know, I. So I majored in. In art and fine art, a minor in African American studies. And, you know, I traveled to Italy and Paris and performed there and. But when I came home, if I'm wearing a bonnet now, I'm. I don't know anything. I'm not worried. I'm not smart. I'm not like, I'm all these negative things based on what I'm wearing. And the most powerful thing is to flip that on his head is to show up the doctor with the long acrylic.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes. Colorful hair and whatever.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

And the colorful hair and the silk shirts and the whatever. You what? However you want to present yourself, it is enough. And for black women, it's so hard for us. So hard.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

We don't have a lot of models for it.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

No.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You know, I think. But that's why I think what you do, this archival work is so critical because it is the fact, like, if we think about Flo Jo, everyone thought that she was nuts, but she. She was an Olympian and how long her nails were. Had nothing to.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

With. Do.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Do with all them gold medals.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Girl, listen, you got to sing it over. I'm watching Survivor right now. And Sere. Is Seriza a vet? Honey, she's a. She's been around for 20 plus years. Black woman from New Jersey. And I was laughing because I said, siree better get on here and be out in the wilderness with her eyelashes done before she comes on this show. I said, mama went and got her lashes done and said, okay, now I'm going on survival.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay. You know what I mean?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

We do get to show up however we want to. I. I actually have one more question as it pertains to something you just mentioned. Sis, we are. We're just contending with so much. We're continuing with so much these days, from little ones to. To us. And everybody feels the. The pressure of this world. You know what I mean? Mean? So that's also why what you're doing is so important because I have an almost 13 year old, you know, daughter, you know what I'm saying? That's a black girl who's coming up in a, in a world that still continues to show that they don't want her here as, you know, as all of us, you know what I mean? And so what you're doing is so, so important. And thank you. I want to close, I, I personally want to close out by asking, asking you, in you doing this work,

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

who

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

have you found some of your dearest and closest ancestors to be? Or, or, or you know, some of our, our ancestors. Our ancestor hoochies of the, of the times of the past.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Like Maya Angelou, you mentioned.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, definitely Maya. I love my. I feel like a lot of people talk about her original work, but a lot of her original work was to uplift authors of the past, blues artists. So always Maya, always Maya. Eartha Kid has always been in the roster because just to imagine the time that she was coming up in and being able to, you know, be sexy and be fun and be free. You know, I always think about in my head, compromise. I fall in love with a man and I have to compromise. Like I live by that because that's something to live by with everything that you do. Not just in love, but in relation to everything. I also, I love my Rainey, Memphis Minnie. Oh, there's so many. Whitney

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Houston, no business.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yes. I feel like she was so misunderstood and faced, and faced a lot when it comes to like beauty standards when it comes to black music. Just the thought of her, you know, having to prove her blackness in, in a lot of ways and then becoming too black.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Right when she was already very black.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Let's be clear, it did not make sense. And her journey has always, you know, inspired me.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah. So much of her pain I felt like was rooted in them trying to make her something she was not.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Not allowing her to be on every side.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

So many people pulling at her, you know, telling her, well, you can't be gay, you can't be. You can't be this, you can't do that. And you know her, she's a example of like when you let a black girl or a black woman be exactly who they want to be, they will flourish. But when you, when you take that away, it never turns out good. Who else? I like to also think about like my ancestors, like people always think about, like your ancestors are like in this far off place. But a lot of my living ancestor hoochie ancestors, I am upset. I Love, Lunel.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Lunel is one of my top five favorite.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I love Lun.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Oh, you just touched my heart with your fingertip.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Ah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I love it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Lunel. Absolutely. But I. You. You said that it made me think of some more, too.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yes, of course. We love some more to our conversation earlier.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Jack A. Because Jack A in 227. Jack A. And the women of Brewster place Jack A in Sister. Sister Lisa Landry don't get enough love for me personally.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Free Lisa

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

for her humor.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

For her. Like Lisa Lander does not get enough as a black TV mom. Truly person. Jack deserves all the flowers, all of

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

them, to force people to say your name. Correct. Jack, that is. That's already power.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Hello.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You talked about that. That. That's also a core to a lot of your content about, like, black girls with different. Different names.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I mean, it just resonates with me because people love to tell you, like, you know what I'm saying? The fact that that's a thing. It took me a long time. You know, I lived most of my life letting people say that, say my name how they wanted to. And you have to, like, get up. It's like, actually, you're hanging on that. Why?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

A little too hard.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It's really not.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Oh, cry. I love that. And this person. And I feel like there's so much power in it. Right? There's so much power. And call me by my name. You can't. You cannot say. It makes no sense. I shouldn't have to shorten my name. Yes. I shouldn't.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Figure it out if Savannah got three names in one name. Okay, don't tell me you all can say Savannah. You don't say Savannah. You don't do all of that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Like, my mama used to say that when I was a little girl and I, because I was going to Catholic school and being othered because my name was hard to say according to the white folks. And I would tell my mama that I wanted to change it or it was too hard to correct it. And my mom told me when I was like nine years old, they could say Tchaikovsky.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I don't want to hear it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, I don't want to hear it. They can say all that other stuff that they say. Girl, they can say they can say your name. Hello. They just don't want to.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

They just don't. They just don't want to. What a huge, passive aggressive way to down a little black girl spirit than to tell them your name is spelled wrong.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, girl, write a book who you are, please.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

We will be here for five hours.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Listen, girl, listen here.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Forever. Because. Yeah, but society.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah. That's one of my favorites.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Jackie is. She's that girl forever. That girl. I love to hear her stories. Aretha Franklin is my guiding light, honey. That is my guiding light. That is my sister. When I say when I'm putting a little something on the altar, I'm like,

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

yeah, you better put a red pup on there for your mean ass sister.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay? Imagine killing you in death. Like I'm in my casket, eating you hoes up. Everybody that's here are better dressed, first of all.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

With my feet crossed.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

With my feet crossed.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Okay.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I do keep the spirit of Aretha, because I do take my purse with me everywhere and I wear out everywhere.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Better not put that purse on the ground.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You don't put. Never ever. Never ever.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I was on Live this week, and somebody said, what are your thoughts about Aretha sending Jill Scott to go get them glizzies? I said, well, I would have went and got them, too.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I went and got them, too. Hello. Whatever.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You wasn't going to go get them.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It's a. I mean, it's Aretha. Like, she is.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I would have been down to the

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

corner store getting them glizzy.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

She told. When Jill Scott told that story, I was like. Like, I wish it was me. Because, like, if Aretha was. And Aretha was also an archivist, because if you notice in all of her photos, Mama is holding a camera. She always had the. The digital handheld. She always had. She. I would love to see the photos

[Host 2 (Kia)]

that Aretha had in.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

In the. In the bank. I also love Aretha as one. The. Of. Of the hoochie ancestors because she went through so much and she was open about it, you know?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Like, she was upfront with the pain that she had to endure. She was upfront about the. The relationship violence that she experienced. And that's, you know, that's something that we've kind of went backwards on.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes, yes. And it's so important that you're saying that, because we were talking about it at the top of the episode. Episode that we're closing out. This is April and. Which is the closeout right now of Sexual Assault Awareness Month. And so I wanted to also ask you, how do you feel about the interest and the importance of talking about Sexual Assault Awareness Month with the intersection of the hoochie culture.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Let me get a little water on that one.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah, yeah, no, I understand. I do understand.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I think that it's so important and necessary to have conversations around, you know, domestic Violence and sexual assault when we're talking about sexual liberation. Because a lot of times we think about sexual liberation and it's all fun. You know, we get to sleep with who we want to kiss, who we want to do what we want to identify how we like, and we love that part of it. But the reality is that a lot of people paid the price for that and continue to pay the price for our freedoms. And a lot of the times we have been brainwashed, like we have been for, you know, centuries in terms of the beauty standard. We also have been brainwashed into believing that a lot of what we receive as far as domestic violence and sexual assault thought that we have brought that on ourselves in some way. And especially when it comes to the hoochies that I. I actually recently posted something in honor of sexual assault survivors. And the first photo is a photo by Polo Silk. Hey, Polo. He is a. A photographer who captured the club life in New Orleans from the early 80s to present day. And the picture is a girl. She turned around. She got their booty out. I'm talking about Bell. Okay. I love it. Oh, nasty turnaround. And at the bottom, I put no means no, no matter what I'm wearing. But there was conversation about that. Oh, this first picture was wild. Oh, God, this first photo. I don't know about that. You got to be safe. That's asking. So we're still there.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah, yeah. There's still so much.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

We're still there. So I feel like there is still work to do. Who am I not to use my platform and as a survivor myself, to use my platform to say, no, we're moving back. And it's crazy to me that we're moving backwards in so many.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

We were just talking about that, too.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Were you ready?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

To us. Because we were just talking about that too.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Rapidly devolving.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yes.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

It's.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

It scares me for. For our little girls, for our little boys, for our thems and days, for everybody. Because I remember the culture of when I was young coming up, being convinced that if you dress this way or that way, then you are. Should expect this. And if you already in the bed, then you got to keep going. But if you had too much to drink, it's your fault because you weren't, you know, that sort of thinking mean, I thought we had moved past.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You would think.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

You would think that. And with the popularization of, like, this influencer culture, where in some ways I love that, you know, regular degular folk get this type of platform and attention. But then a Lot of the negativity is platformed and it's very dangerous for the people who are on their phones. The young folks who are seeing the popularity of There is a, a girl right now on Tik Tok that baby. And let me say this, y', all, I call the CPS on folk.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay, I know that's right. I know that's right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I'm a reporter.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Hello,

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I'm scrolling on my phone and I see you doing something. Let me. Hello? Yeah, I don't know.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I'm calling the lady, calling the people her screen.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

But I noticed that there is like a whole category like this culture of like bad parenting that's popularized. Oh, you know, we got the. Oh yeah, we have. I won't name their names, but there are these influencers whose whole stick is that they're open with, with the bad things that they do, whether they're surviving domestic violence and you know, that relationship is popularized.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

What?

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yes. Oh, it's a huge thing. There's, there's a young lady, she's actually from my hometown. She's popular right now. Her 12 year old daughter ran away a couple days ago and she, she went live to tell everybody. Oh yeah, she ran away and the police on the way. And then when the police came, she's live, live with the police and telling her, let me go report this so I can lay back down. That like, so when I, when I see things like that, I know that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Lord have mercy.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

I know I have a, a reaction where it's like, I have to do this, I have to try to offset, you know, because there, there are young girls in my inbox. Oh my God. I had never heard of hoochi culture before. You know, my mom let me send this message, like I have a responsibility, responsibility to them to remind them that domestic violence, sexual assault, all of that, it don't come with this culture. Yeah, the baby boys, the, the, all of that. The happy ending after being hit, after being. That's not what this is. That's not what this is. So that's why I feel like it's so important to offset that because, because what else would I do with my platform?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Right, right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Thank you so much.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Listen, we, and we could go on for. Because I, I wanted to know, I would, I wanted to go lighter and ask you your favorite hoochie theme songs and talk about your hoochie outfit. But I think this warrants us to have a second conversation. You have to come back.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah, you have to come back. And we just have to, to do Some hoochie trivia.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Trivia next time. That's what we're doing. Oh, I'm creating a whole game. You all wait on it. So is there anything you want to share with the audience before you go? As it pertains to your work, as it pertains to any messages you want out there, is there anything you want to leave. Leave the audience with

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

one. I would love for everybody to go to hoochicon.com. check me out. I have merch.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yeah. Everything is hand printed. By who? She. I also.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

No, that's right.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay. I also just. You know what? I just want to say thank you. I want to say thank you to my community. Thank you for having me. Thank you for, you know, understanding that this is a legitimate culture and it's important and that we deserve to be credited. And, you know, I. I just. All the positivity, it just uplifts me and it keeps me going. So I'm just very appreciative.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You're doing amazing things, and we're. We're grateful for the work that you do. We're grateful for the way that you. You showcase and highlight us in such beautiful ways. And I'm excited to see all of the things that come from the hoochie historian and from Hoochie Khan. I can't wait to attend my first hoochie con. I know will be in the building, so.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Period.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And you have to come back before

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

then for us to do some hoochie trivia.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Yes. I'm gonna. I do have some events coming up. I will be announcing them on hoochicon.com. we're going to have a trivia show, so get ready. You better get your bl and yeah. Is coming next year, so.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

We are so grateful for you and all the ways that you celebrate and showcase and honor and educate the world about who we are.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You said that you were proud of little Zorine. I'm proud of little Zorine and Gron Zorine.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I'm so grateful for you being here. And, you know, we. Not just blowing smoke like, I think, you know, I speak for myself and Jay when we say that what you're doing is amazing work that's necessary and important, especially in this time where the world feels so unsafe for us as black women. So you welcome at the kitchen table anytime you want to be there.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Thank you so much. And don't forget that there are no white hoochies. I think that's very important for me to end on.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I'm so sorry, no, that is literally no that that stamp the end of this conversation.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh my God.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Actually sister, I want to call that. Yeah, can you call that the episode no White Hoochies.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Hey, no white hoochies. Mention that at the beginning when we talked about the definition that it is a black yes culture, but it's not only founded by black women, it is

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

only hello, ain't no white studs, ain't no white hoochies. And with that being said,

[Host 2 (Kia)]

No white hoochie.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You all make sure you check out the description description box where you can find all things hoochie historian Hoochie Khan. We will have all of that linked so you can check out Zorine and every facet and please go support again. Zorine's one of my favorite, favorite, favorite creators on the Internet and so I'm just excited for all of the black women who who tap into our community to come be a part and so thank you so much Zorine and make sure that you all stay tuned for the next segment. It.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Eczema is unpredictable, but you can flare less with ebglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema after an initial four month or longer dosing phase. About four in ten people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

Hempglus Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you are allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Eglis before starting ebglis. Tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit eglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this. But anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistants assist assistance. Switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full [e-mail].

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Oh, it's time for the self care and I think my self care this week. So you know, we, we don't go out to eat as a family as much as we as maybe as much as I thought we did. So we said we wanted to say at least once or twice a month to go out to eat as a family.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I love that.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So we went out to eat for Korean barbecue.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh yum.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

With the broccoli. With the broccoli. You remember the broccoli?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I do.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Oh, two orders.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Delicious. Delicious.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

But we went off a Korean barbecue and had you know, the Korean carbonara and, and, and did all the grilled meats and the banchan and all of those things.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yum, yum, yum.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And but it was ultimately it was a, it was just a good time. Like Noah is at a really fun age. She's really, really, really enjoyable to engage with. Like we laughed, we, we, you know, fussed because I was teaching her sign language, the Alphabet, inside language and here come Tristan talking about that's not how you do X. I said.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Show me, show me how to do it.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Since I was 5 years old,

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

you

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

had to Google to try to prove me wrong.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Please. Yeah, yeah.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So yeah. But, but no, we ended up having a really nice time and I was like, you know, we need to do, we definitely need to be like way more intentional about this. At least once a month, you know, expend now in these day, in this day and time as I will get to in my petty PV in a second are much. You know what I'm saying? The tariffs are high, the prices, everything

[Host 2 (Kia)]

is high as hell.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Too damn high. Rent's too damn high. So this is not the petty pe J. So I say all that to say it was lovely spending time with my family and I definitely am excited to do more of that over the summer. Summer we're supposed to do another family road trip.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah, yeah, it's good. I like my little trio.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I love that, I love that. I love that. It's a good reminder to not let the heaviness of all the things that are happening take you out of your

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

consume all of you. Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You have to schedule like joy and connection and do so on purpose. I love that you are even thinking about summer plans. I looked up last week and was like, man, I need to plan a vacation this year. I don't have one on the books as of yet. I know. And I need to do something about that. I really do. I really do. And so that's a good reminder. My self care is kind of twofold. I've been thinking a lot about chosen family. I actually writing up something that I'm gonna post on the Spiral Notebook this week.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes. I love it. I'm coming through with my PA markets.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes. And so because I really feel like I'm thinking about family as a concept in a, in a much more expansive way. When I think about the time that we spent in Atlanta a couple of weeks ago. But also just like I have a friend that I was talking to over the weekend processing something. She's raising teenagers. She said, I feel like when I. And I'm. We should connect her. I'mma connect her to you. Because she was like, she was like, I'm raising these teenagers. I felt like when I was, when my kids were small, everybody had all this advice. Now I got these little people in my house and they are their personalities, they're doing whatever they want. I'm trying to figure out who they are and how to manage all of the ways in which they are testing boundaries and making decisions and getting in trouble. And I feel like don't nobody got no more advice. So telling me how to manage these little, you know, many adults in my house who think they grown but are still very much children. And so, you know, just talking to her about that, you know, really felt like even though you know this, as I'm was talking to her, I'm just like, listen to me like, you know, I'm an auntie. I'm. I'm an auntie and I'm sitting with my sister in processing and you know, what the hell is wrong with these kids? Right?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah. At that point it's these, you know what I'm saying?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

But I sit and I think about, you know, what that used to look like for my mom and, and it looks different for me. But it is no less a thing, right? It is no less, it is no less a thing. It is very much a thing. And so being open to thinking about there's always all These, this, this research and bodies of work that talk about like fictive kinship, particularly in collectivistic societies like us from the diaspora. You know, black folks have been choosing family for ages. But you know, it shows up differently in every generation. Every cultural moment has a different way of manifesting and expressing that. And so I'm, I feel like I'm just living that in a new way now, particularly as my own family dynamics change. And so it's just been a lot of reflection and thinking in that, in that way and so meaningfully connected with my chosen family was something I've been intentional about this week. And I think that that's very much a part of my self care helping me to remember that I'm not out here by myself and, and you know, it's just, it's just good for me to keep in that practice and keep in that state of mind.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And yeah, so that's my, that's my self care thinking about and connecting with my community on purpose. I also jumped on live and played in my makeup for a couple with Instagram on Saturday, which was also a good time. We talked all about all the things and sort of caught up. I also, you know the Sephora had their annual sale was wrapping up. Yes, they did. I was sharing some of, some of the things that I picked up. It was a good time. I'm gonna download the live. I was just telling Jade if I could figure, if auntie can figure out how to do it. Okay, I'm gonna put it, I'm gonna put it on the, I'm gonna put down to the Patreon if the girls want to catch catch up. But yeah, we had a good time and I'm gonna try to do that more of that because that's one of the ways that I play and decompress and just have some creative outlet. So yeah, that was, that was me and self care this week.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I love that I would also. I have a, a commit. I have a question for the sensitive skin girlies. How do you all feel about the bare minerals? Ah, what do you all think about that? Because I told you recently I got the, the clean. A couple of clean products but I don't have a powder. I don't have any sort of. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's very bare bones over here.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

So I had, I had a bare minerals loose powder back in the day. I did like a, it was, listen,

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

they've been around for a minute, right?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It was like a mineral smell, like a powder. That you would use to set and I had no complaints. I, I mean I, I do want the sensitive skin girls to chime in, but yeah, I think all the girls, if you're out there and you're using any kind of clean makeup like you know, jump in the chat and let us know what your favorite brands are, what your favorite products are.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Hip, your girl, you know, you know to, to tea. Like, you know, I don't know if I'm your auntie, your cousin, your sister. I don't, I don't know in what bracket you. Yeah, but your knee side. You could be. I could be.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I know, right.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

But just let me know what you all are using as your little setting situations. You know what I'm saying? Your little products you're using. I like what I've used so far and so you know, I think it's just giving me a nice light. But I said, you know, a little, a little something to pull everything together will not hurt anything. I just want to make sure that it's something that's not going to irritate.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I also feel like since you should look into Dermablend. Dermablend is formulated by dermatologists. They have an excellent. I use their loose setting powder. I have the translucent one and the warm saffron which my. But, but I, but I do feel like they. I just did a quick Google and they are considered clean and safe.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

They're a clean makeup brand.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Focusing on their dermatologist tested formulas that are free of parabens, phthalates and triclosan. Yeah, they're vegan, cruelty free, fragrance free and non comedogenic safer sensitive skin type of time.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That is. And that's why the Danessa Myricks also is not bothering me because she is also considered clean, cruelty free and vegan. I don't know what that means chemically.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Same. I too, I'm in the dark. I'm not, I'm not in the know as it relates to that. But yeah, I would try them there. You can get that at Ulta. You can also order it down to the Amazon. But Derma Blend, it's a, you can get the translucent one. That's a very fine powder. You just put a little of that. That will absolutely set your face see.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And that's fine with me because you know, I don't want to play with. Play around with colors on the Internet, so. Oh, she does okay. Her, her products are free of Paris ribbons, fertilates and comments.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I didn't even. I skipped right over It Because I didn't even want to try.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Damn if you don't know how the am I supposed to. That's what I'm saying, girl.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I didn't even. It's day late. Okay. So Google says it's. It's what they thalate T H A L A T.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So the ph is silent.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Phthalate. It's actually phthalate.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You know, that's why English is stupid. You know what?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I'm gonna see you my friend Toy shout out to toysi Toy sent me Instagram reel of someone teaching English and it was like showing all the ways that the English language doesn't make any sense. Right?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Exactly.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes, exactly. Video is so good because it just demonstrates how we are all being gaslit by the English language every single day.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And anybody who is learning English is the prime example for why this shit is nonsensical.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yes. Which is because we. Yes.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

We're Germanic language. Which.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, girl. If the it was. The examples were like. If the past tense of freeze is froze, what's the past tense of sneeze? And so the girl was like snow.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

She was like, no.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

So it's like all those examples of things that don't add up. Right. Don't make sense at all. I sneezed. I sn.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

You didn't. You sneezed.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And that's why the English language is gaslight. I will find that link I'm send to you because it's so good. It's like six different examples. And like the guy asked the question every time you say okay, it's like, okay, if the past tense of may make is made, what's the past tense of take? And she was like, tade. He was like, no, it's took. So I was like, I'm a so fit. It's like girl. But yeah, it's called. I just. I went to Google and you can pronounce it and Sally is. I guess the ph is talent. Silent phalle is how you pronounce that. P H T H A L A T S is pronounced phthalate. So it's free of phthalates. Suffix parabens. Look at this. I love that the kitchen table is a learning system.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

It is what it is. I still think that's an errant ph. It not be there. I don't like it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It's. It's un. It's completely extraneous. Unnecessary. Why?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

It really is.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Why is it there? Is what is what I want to know.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Very annoying. Well, speaking of annoying, I guess we should just go to the petty peeves.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, I might make phthalate my petty pee, but go ahead, Auntie Country. Petty, petty, petty.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

All the same to me. Playing Jane Spaghetti.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

All right, it's time for the petty peeves.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Let's get.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I spoke on it earlier, but I must go into a little bit of detail. So after we went out to eat, I said I need to stop by the store and the closest one was Whole Foods. So I gotta stop by the store, pick up a couple things for dinner tomorrow. And I was like, we might as well just get, you know, if no one needs something for lunch, whatever for dinner. We got the smallest basket, right? The small little handheld one. But there's on wills.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I know where this is going.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Yes. A pack of chicken that I don't think was a full pound, right? One very small, like a pound of beef empanada from the. From the ready made. Because I was like, I'mma pop those right in the toaster oven. That's I what. What she's taking for lunch tomorrow. A bag of coffee beans, some cilantro and some Thai chilies. 100%. I believe it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I believe it. I got one better for you, sis. I went to the Giant. Ran in the Giant yesterday after the gym. I also had a handheld basket and no meat. There was not one. There was no meat, there was no produce. I think I got like toothpaste, batteries, like that kind of shit. Like. Like garbage. Like garbage bags, you know, I mean handheld. It wasn't even heavy. Like literally. I think the Receipt had like seven or eight items. Again, $110.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That is like. So we were walking out of the store and I don't know if it was Tristan or Noah who was carrying the bag. And you know Whole Foods has the little hand sandals, is the small shopping bag. So they're carrying it. And I said, well, where's the other bag? And they were like, the bag. And I said, that has every. Oh, and some eggs. I said, that has everything. They said, this is everything. I said that girl.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I went.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

It's always some butter. That was insane.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I went into CVS of the day and you know how it's like they just had the leftover Easter cake candy and the worst.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

The worst holiday candy.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Really, Really a terrible selection. Like not. But you know, just. So I was over there, just over there looking. I didn't get any, but just was looking. Cuz I saw that it was on sale and you know, cuz I like candy. I'm trying to. I'm trying to make better Choices. So again, I want to. To go on record say that I did not buy any, but, you know, the regular bag of jelly beans that we've been getting for Easter for centuries. And you thinking, okay, the jelly beans. And again, they're on sale because this is after the holiday. So I'm thinking, what? Them jelly beans got to be a dollar.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

What?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

The jelly beans was $4 US best currency. $4 for a package of the deep assortment.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

The one that got the popcorn.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

What is it? Brock's? The regular Brock. Since I was, you know, knee high, too. Listen, I'm telling you this. The regular Easter basket jelly beans that we've been eating all our lives was $4 a bag.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

The nasty ones. Wow.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I say, man, yo, this is getting out of hand.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I need to go look at the price of peeps, because.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, yes. And you know, me and my mom like peeps. We do like them. I know that many people.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Y' all enjoy Peeps.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, people are. I know it's very offensive. It's very polarizing. Like the candy corn. But that is. That is one thing that Rhonda and I would bond over. And, you know, we didn't have a

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

lot of little candy corn. Sweet. Candle wax.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah. I mean, I like marshmallows. So it was like, oh, this is just the marshmallow. Okay. All right.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

But I hate.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, but, you know, it's like my mom knew that. It was like we were the only ones in the house who really ate them. So it's like my mom was like, I bought us some Peeps. And I was like, oh, you did?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That was like, y' all stay.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Yeah, that was like our little thing. But the peeps are probably six bucks now. There's no way that they're not a thousand dollars.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

If peeps have gone up, they've got to have. I'm revolting.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

No, because everything has going up. I'm gonna.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Cuz nobody wants Peeps but you and Rhonda.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Nobody. Like, that's probably fair.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Just like, I ain't never seen a Buy a Cadbury Egg, but somehow they still around.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I have never.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I never seen a Buy a Cadbury Egg.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I would love to know which black people are buying them.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Oh, my God. Let's.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Wait, this can't be right. I'm on Walmart. Oh, this is five. This is a. Oh, this is five. In each, a pack of three. $10 for three packs of peeps. So that would be what, how many $10? 925.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That's insulting.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

So that's like three. That's like $3 per pack of peeps.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That's insulting and disgusting.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

$9.99.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

$10.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

15 each eat for 15 peeps is running about $10 for 15 peeps.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I'm upset. I think we just need to close this out because, I mean. Wait, you didn't even do a pet peeve. I'm so sorry.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I think I am going to stick with daylights being my. I'm going to stick with daylights. The way that word just came and got me. I'm going to say daylights is where.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I love how you skipped over it. And I just walked right into the fucking.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Whoa.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I'm not going to say that. Cause I was like, girl, girl. I'm not gonna be stuttering over that word in this microphone. Hello. I'm not gonna play myself shameless. And then I went ahead and said something else wrong. But I saw th la and said, nope, I'm not doing. I'm not even gonna do it. I'm not even gonna try my. I'm not gonna try my hand with that. But I. I'm gonna Google it. He's like, put that.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

And I think that is absolutely a very valid petty peeve because. Fuck that. That word.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Stupid word.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Cuz.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Why would you do that to me? Why?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Here come all the scientists. Here they come.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Oh, the chemist. The chemist is finished.

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

Actually.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

The ph is the shortener for the table of the.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Look at these dummies. They don't know anything. And that's fine. And that's fine.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

One of us is a doctor. She didn't know. I feel nothing. I feel nothing about your shame.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Me having a PhD means that I know a lot about a very specific thing.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Most of the rest of that other stuff. And I love that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

A very cursory understanding. Okay, Well, I found.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

I find both of us to read books. And also neither one of us knew that. So. Yes, that word.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Period. Because also, we know how consonants and vowels work. Right? There are rules.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

And those. Those words break all the rules.

[Zorine Truly (Hoochie Historian)]

Okay?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

You don't just get to do what you want to do. Do.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Okay. It was pharmacy. You know what I mean?

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Hello.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

They're not. What is this? What is this? I don't like it.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

Every other word that starts with the ph starts with a like phone. Hello. What are we saying?

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

There's something that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It's got to be what it is.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Th is just.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

We got to say for.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

That's what it is now.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

It's got to be late. I mean, we've just got to put our foot down.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

Still stupid, but it's very dumb. Makes more sense than just not saying it at all. But thank you so much to Zori. The hoochie has stored.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

I have learned so much for coming through.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

So much and in, you know, such a necessary genre of us as a people because we are not a monolith at all. And I love our, I love respect to our deep cultural references. You know what I mean? So this is. We're so grateful that you came with us at the kitchen table. Absolutely. And Sister, oh, don't forget to subscribe to the Patreon if you want to support this show, please. You know what I'm saying? That is the best way to do so. You can also like and subscribe on YouTube. You can rate us five stars on Apple Podcast or wherever you're listening, whatever platform you're listening. All of those are also very helpful to the show. Don't forget to send your honesty box questions and all of your thoughts. So we want to hear your thoughts to hello Getting grown co and Sister. Take them out and tell us what

[Host 2 (Kia)]

to do for sure. Make sure that you are moisturizing your mind by attending to the business that it's yours and yours alone. Okay? You want to mind your business in this dancery as often as as you possibly can. You also want to drink just as much water as your body can sustain because that is how you keep your insides moisturized. Okay? Your insides are just as much as your just as important as your outsides. And your outsides are critical because you've got to keep your skin moisturized because your black will crack if it's dry and problematic and anti black. Bye.

[Host 1 (Auntie)]

All of that, all of that.

[Host 2 (Kia)]

All of that. Does your day move faster than you can keep up with new Gatorade lower sugar?

[Pharmaceutical Announcer]

My family and I can stay at

[Host 2 (Kia)]

the top of our game. No artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors. 75% less sugar and all the electrolytes of regular Gatorade now available nationwide.