Jade (0:58)

Visit T mobile dot com. Howdy, partner. Next time you get chicken at McDonald's, you won't have to choose between the creamy flavors of ranch and the tangy kick of buffalo any longer. This time, enjoy all the flavors you love all at once. Try new creamy and tangy buffalo ranch sauce. And participate in McDonald's for a limited time.

Jasmine Imani (1:27)

Mind.

Jade (1:29)

Know your deepest feelings. I want to make it right for you, baby show me Let me share the mystery oh, come on, come on, come on, come on Listen to your heart tonight Come on, come on tonight make it all right Come on, come on, tonight I know a melody we could sing together. I got the secret key to you, baby let's make music. Sorry, I. You know, I don't take this.

Kia (2:31)

It don't take much.

Jade (2:32)

It don't.

Kia (2:32)

It don't take much.

Jade (2:33)

It don't. Praise the Lord.

Kia (2:36)

Prank him.

Jade (2:38)

Wait. Can I share a fun fact that I learned? I learned. I. I believe I learned this from our dear, dear friends to the show Chuck and Claude on okay, We Sound Crazy podcast, but I can't remember Anyway, James Ingram was not supposed to be on the Secret Garden. Do you know who was supposed to do his verse?

Kia (3:04)

I do not.

Jade (3:06)

Steven Hardaway was supposed to be on the Secret Garden. And at the last minute, they Couldn't reach Stevie. And if you all I know Kia did watch the We Are the World documentary. You already know that. It is no surprise that somebody couldn't get in touch with Stevie in the time of cell phones not being prevalent and they had to call James Ingram at the last minute. And then James Ingram came in and busted the verse down. One take, I believe.

Kia (3:36)

And I mean easy one and done.

Jade (3:39)

Listen, you know how I feel about Stevie, sister. But Stevie was not supposed to be on the Secret Garden.

Kia (3:47)

You know, it was supposed it. You know, it worked out the way.

Jade (3:49)

It needed to probably.

Kia (3:51)

That's not that, you know, sometime got to just let things unfold the way that they do. Yeah. Cuz sometimes it's just for the best.

Jade (3:59)

Yeah. Everything's not for everybody. Even your favorites. Correct. Even your favorites.

Kia (4:05)

Correct. Correct. Correct.

Jade (4:07)

How you doing?

Kia (4:07)

Maybe Stevie knew that, which was why.

Jade (4:09)

I know he felt in here.

Kia (4:11)

You know, he was like, I don't know about that.

Jade (4:15)

Sing about Jungle Feed.

Kia (4:18)

Exactly. I'm hanging in there.

Jade (4:21)

I'm, you know, doing what I gotta do. Listen, I'm safe and I have what.

Kia (4:25)

I need and that's all I got. How are you doing?

Jade (4:29)

You know, about the same. I think that's where we all are in figuring out the best that we got to do. I'm supposed to go see my. My kids this weekend in Cleveland. And you know, I. I'm like, okay. I'm not really super excited about going to the airport during this, you know, engaging in all of these things. And I got put that to the side for the sake of my dear bbs. But yeah, I'm. You know, there's so much happening and it's influencing us so much that I feel like if I don't take.

Kia (5:06)

So many ways.

Jasmine Imani (5:07)

Right.

Jade (5:08)

Yeah. In so many. I gotta take some kind of control in. In. In some way. Because this is. It's starting to feel real wonky. You know what I mean?

Jasmine Imani (5:19)

Same.

Kia (5:20)

Same. And I am looking forward to getting on the other side of this. It's like the end of year sort of sprint at work.

Jade (5:29)

Yeah.

Kia (5:30)

And really just like pushing to close things out. And you know, things are just really feeling full. Like I feel really like heavy. So. And just from. From every vantage, like physically, mentally, emotionally, I'm just feeling like burdened.

Jade (5:46)

Yeah.

Kia (5:46)

And I'm hoping that I can. And I know. But I'll honestly say that I feel weird complaining. I know that there are so many people in the world.

Jade (5:54)

Absolutely.

Kia (5:55)

Who are negotiating all manner of hardship and heaviness and difficulty and so I'm cognizant of sort of what, you know, others are holding and just sort of trying to move through as best I can. I feel like that's all we can do.

Jade (6:10)

Absolutely.

Kia (6:11)

In these ghetto times. I am also having to travel this week and, you know, the thing about it is, you know, shout out to all government employees, including air traffic controllers and TSA folk who are continuing to show up and keep the world running despite not getting what they earn.

Jade (6:33)

Yeah.

Kia (6:33)

And I feel like that helps me to sort of remain grounded even when, you know, dealing with sort of the frustrations and just difficulties and sometimes discomforts of. Of sort of traveling.

Jade (6:49)

Yes.

Kia (6:50)

You know, I'm just trying to stay present in that. Trying to extend kindness and gratitude and appreciation to everyone that I meet because everyone's handling heavy and hard things.

Jade (7:01)

Yes, everyone.

Kia (7:02)

Everybody is having to figure all of this out.

Jade (7:06)

Absolutely. Like negotiating in so many different ways. We know that there is a loss of. Of SNAP benefits right now, which is cruel within itself, and it's especially cruel again during this holiday season when oftentimes this is people's opportunity to gather with their loved ones and so forth. And so, you know, we. We want to extend love there. But also I want to make a call that if there are organizations, leaders of organizations, different ones that are listening to this, please, I'm asking you to reach out to. To us at hello, Getting grown. Co. I would love for Kia and I to figure out some way to amplify how to assist our community. When we talk about community, we have to figure out how to actually be hands on within that. So I am petitioning you all, please, as I am also doing my own research to figure out how getting grown can assist during this time. You know, listen, I'm struggling too. You know what I'm saying? But, like, community is what is. Is really what's going to hold us together. And so we want to figure out how we can actually do that. So I ask you all to please reach out. If you have any resources or ways that we can partner or be, we would. We would absolutely love to do that. I also, you know, as we recorded last week, we recorded on election day, so we hadn't gotten any results as we were recording, but I have to shout out New York City for doing what needed to be done.

Kia (8:35)

The United States of New York.

Jade (8:38)

United States. We want to thank you for boroughs.

Kia (8:40)

The United States of New York.

Jade (8:43)

Exactly. Okay, I know everybody else is listening to this. Like, please shut the fuck up. You all are insufferable.

Kia (8:49)

I Know, think about it. And I'm not even there. I mean, the people hate me.

Jade (8:56)

Nah.

Jasmine Imani (8:56)

But whatever.

Kia (8:57)

Because I'm down here in the dmv. I'm down here in the DMV making all this noise like I had anything.

Jade (9:04)

To do with it.

Kia (9:04)

You're like, I'm down here. Damn right.

Jade (9:07)

You God damn right, my city. Listen, okay, I'm from Dynasty. Let me tell you something, sister. One of the greatest joys was. Good morning. Of what they were like, this is everybody who's scared. The young lady. This is what they scared about. What's going to happen with the trains going. Sound like with my Doni in office. And they're like, alhamdulillah, you know, inshah. We make it to the next stop, I die. I'm like, yes, this is what I love it. Bisan calls it the Gaza Effect. And I love that. Right. Because it is people mobilizing against fascism, against. Against all of the, the, the. The terror that these governments reign all over us as a people. And it really shows us that when we mobilize the way that we need to, we. The power that we need to hold. And I want to shout out Zoran Mamdani for being a human being. You know what I'm saying? I'm not expecting the world from him.

Kia (10:09)

And holding it down. No, no, no. He's a person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, this is. He is one person doing his part, and that means we all got to do ours as well. And so I think the collective action. I'm seeing this as a demonstration of what happens when collective action takes place.

Jade (10:28)

Yes.

Kia (10:28)

It wasn't just him. Everybody came and came together and did what needed to be done. So I'm hoping that we can keep the same energy moving forward. I hope that this demonstrates to people that, you know, that this, this is a part of the work and this is what we gotta sort of push through and do. And, and yeah, I think this is just where we are also, you know, I feel. I feel another point of pride because, you know, Mamdani is a millennial.

Jade (10:56)

Also that. Also that.

Kia (10:58)

And so I feel like we as a generation, you know, I think this is a call to action, for us to stand up and take our place.

Jade (11:08)

Yeah.

Kia (11:08)

And, you know, I'm grateful for him as a possibility model, and I'm excited about what he will. Hopeful that this will sort of usher in a wave of young leaders.

Jade (11:21)

Yes.

Kia (11:22)

Younger leaders. Younger, yeah. Who are willing to do what is necessary to sort of move us forward as A nation. So shout out to. To New York, Shout out to Virginia, lots of Jersey, California.

Jade (11:34)

Progress absolutely made. Detroit, all of Michigan. Like, shout out to you. All across the nation.

Kia (11:42)

We're doing the work.

Jade (11:44)

Who deserves shout outs? The rest of you. The seventh hell, the rest of you.

Kia (11:49)

We're not talking to you.

Jade (11:50)

We're not Middle Earth head there expeditiously.

Kia (11:53)

You shouldn't even be over here, honestly.

Jade (11:56)

And by over. You want to know the truth? And by over here, I mean, I.

Kia (12:03)

Digress, child, but we will. We will carry on. We will push on. We will push through.

Jade (12:10)

Yeah. Yeah, we will.

Kia (12:12)

And continue on in taking care of ourselves and one another. Yes, we all. We got. That's what it's to be.

Jade (12:19)

That's really it. That's really it. So I wanted to make sure we shouted out Mom, Donnie, and shouted out us as a people who are fed up and ready to try to figure out how we can take control of the things that we can take control of. You know what I mean? In the face of extreme adversity and challenge. We also have to shout out our sister, Crystal Jean, as you all are listening to this.

Kia (12:42)

Oh, she's gonna be my. I know that's wrong. Oh, okay.

Jade (12:45)

You know what? Pause. We'll wait.

Kia (12:46)

It's okay. It's okay. Well, you'll hear her again.

Jade (12:49)

Yes, you'll hear it again. Well, we want to shout out our sister, Crystal G. This is the big day. More to come in a later segment.

Kia (12:54)

The big day. That's.

Jade (12:58)

I love it. I love it.

Kia (12:59)

It's a big day.

Jade (13:01)

Yeah, we'll hold that for the. I know that's right. I think that is very appropriate. And I'm trying to think, is there anything else? Yeah, I think that's it. I think that's it for the intro we have.

Jasmine Imani (13:15)

Let's do it.

Kia (13:16)

We're excited. We're having a wonderful guest at the kitchen table. We'll be talking about just sort of. Just sort of understanding, entrepreneurship, curiosity, and, you know, pivoting.

Jade (13:29)

And pivoting.

Kia (13:30)

You know, we are living in an age where, you know, it's all about the pivot.

Jade (13:34)

Yes.

Kia (13:35)

In these days.

Jade (13:36)

Yes.

Kia (13:36)

Got to be. We got to be light on our feet and ready to. To be agile.

Jasmine Imani (13:42)

Yes.

Kia (13:42)

And willing to move. And ready to move at any given moment. So we're talking about that with our good sister and friend to the show, Jasmine. Imani, won't you join us at the kitchen table?

Jade (13:53)

Yes. And before we move on to Jasmine, I also have to shout out real quick, sis, our Guest from last week, Ms. Michaela Angela Davis.

Kia (14:03)

Yes.

Jade (14:04)

I hope you all thoroughly enjoyed that episode. I know I did. I know, I know I did. And I look forward to continuing our conversation.

Kia (14:12)

I know I.

Jade (14:13)

Exactly. So I look forward to us continuing our conversation with a legend. But, but let's get into this good conversation with a, a legend in, in the making, you know what I'm saying? Somebody who has been working behind the scenes for years now and is going to show us how to kind of just pivot our mentality a little bit if we are leaning into the world of entrepreneurship. So we'll see you all at the kitchen table. Howdy, partner. Next time you get chicken at McDonald's, you won't have to choose between the creamy flavors of ranch and the tangy kick of buffalo any longer. This time, enjoy all the flavors you love all at once. Try new creamy and tangy buffalo ranch sauce and participate in McDonald's for a limited time. Welcome, welcome, welcome back everybody to the kitchen table. Per usual, you know, we are just, we have the, the best collection of black women around us here at Getting Grown, do we not? I almost feel, I feel a little greedy sometimes because of all of the amazing, amazing visitors that we've had and the network of people that we have. And today is no different. Okay. Jasmine Imani is joining us here at the kitchen table. Jasmine Imani is a seasoned entrepreneur and strategic consultant working at the intersection of beauty operations and artist centered business. She's the founder and CEO of Imani Imani Studio, a flagship lash and brow destination at WSA here in New York. Rooted in care and editorial precision, her studio offers an alternative to traditional beauty models. One that emphasizes long term transformation over aesthetics alone. Alongside her career in beauty, Jasmine serves as Chief operating officer at New Crits, an artist led platform for critique, mentorship and professional development. She guides program strategy, manages artist partnerships and keeps the engine running across all parts of the organization. Through her consulting practice, Jasmine works with creative founders and teams to untangle complexity and build systems that actually work. Welcome to the kitchen table. Jasmine Imani.

Kia (16:29)

Welcome, welcome.

Jasmine Imani (16:32)

What an intro. But thank you, thank you.

Jade (16:35)

You know, all of all of our guests say that and I have the same thought every time. I'm like d. I mean, do y' all know what you do? Everybody has the same reaction to hearing it though. And like, you know, in this, in this way, which is such a testament to all of the amazing black women that we've had and you this week. So how are you, Jasmine?

Jasmine Imani (16:58)

I'm good, I'm Excited to be here. Honored.

Jade (17:02)

We're honored to have you. So, ladies and gentlemen, everybody in between, gentlemen, Jasmine. Outside of everything she does, which we're getting ready to get into, Jasmine also assisted Kia and I on our tour this summer by literally hopping behind a merch table. Okay, this is what we're talking about when we talk about our community. Jasmine came in and said, give me the systems. I've got it. And she literally handled the whole merch table in Chicago. So if you were in Chicago, you had the honor and the privilege of meeting Ms. Jasmine Imani. Jasmine, talk to us first about, like, how you got started in your journey. Talk to us about the start of your story.

Jasmine Imani (17:39)

Oh, the start of my story is probably, like, elementary school of, like, yard sales and, like, making bracelets and selling them outside or orchestrating the yard sale for the block. Um, I don't know. I grew up in a entrepreneurial household. My mom was a publicist in Hollywood, and she basically ran the office out of her house. I've been put to work since probably, like, 10 when I was faxing, stuffing press releases, answering the phone. Yeah, you name it, I did it because I was the assistant. So I kind of grew up in that environment from outside of that. Right outside of high school, I started a company with my stepbrother, and it was like an online software computer. We were basically bundling computer software back in the day. Eventually became illegal, but we did it before it was. But my brother was, like, a baby genius, and he figured out this loophole, and he was selling software on ebay, and we had a whole big business going on. He started it straight out of high school. I came in to run those books in customer service and operations. So it really started from there. From there. That lasted about three to four years. We did a good three mil in six months, like, we were doing business.

Jade (19:20)

Wait, hold on. Okay, pause, wait, hold on. Pause, pause, pause, pause. Y', all, first of all, if you are not watching the visual of this, Kia's face alone, why 3 million dollar business in high school.

Jasmine Imani (19:35)

Right out of high school.

Kia (19:36)

Yeah.

Jade (19:36)

Right out of high school.

Jasmine Imani (19:37)

I had to be in, like, I had to be 20. He had to be 18. Yeah.

Jade (19:43)

That's incredible.

Jasmine Imani (19:44)

Yeah.

Jade (19:46)

We needed to take a pause there for a second. Please keep going.

Jasmine Imani (19:51)

Yeah, from there, I've been creating things. I had another online business called Graffiti Pink. Back in the day, it was an online lingerie store. From there, I became a buyer, a head women's buyer at a company called Karma Loop for those who remember streetwear. Destination based in Boston. I did that for a good four years. Head Woman Spy. I started there when there was 50 people. By the time I left, we had 300 people. From there I went on to Forever 21 as their creative director for web. I did that for a year. Then I got knocked up, had my little baby.

Jade (20:33)

They won't let me out. Okay.

Jasmine Imani (20:37)

And decided I wanted an east coast baby. So I moved to New York from there and took two years off raise my little one, which was glorious.

Jade (20:47)

Wow. What a diverse range of, of background.

Kia (20:53)

It's really dope. I think a lot of times when we are thinking about journeys and especially career professional trajectories, people often tend to think pretty linearly. And what I enjoy about getting to know and sort of exploring your, your story is that you've been pretty open to, you know, you're ideas kind of person and you know how to execute. And you. There's, there's a, a throughway and a flow. Did you sort of plan to sort of jump around in the ways that you've jumped around or did it just sort of happen organically?

Jasmine Imani (21:27)

I think it's all been pretty organic. I always say I've been curious and so I've always led with curiosity and I've always. I think a big mantra for me from like 18 to probably till I had my job was just like jump off the mountain. Like just do it.

Kia (21:47)

Yeah, yeah.

Jasmine Imani (21:48)

And I always have. So that's always kind of carried me through to the next thing. And also I believe I get bored. Not in a way that I get distracted, but in a way that I like to keep challenging myself.

Kia (22:02)

I know growing up in an entrepreneurial family that probably feels pretty normal to you, but have you ever dealt with fear or have you ever been like afraid of the next big thing or did it just like, was it just like if it we ball the whole time?

Jasmine Imani (22:19)

I think so. My mom is probably the first real entrepreneur. And my mom was kind of like the black sheep of the family, the weird one, always doing things different. She's the one who like was in Chicago and was like, I'm going to LA and I'm staying here and I'm working in Hollywood and all that was very unnormal in our family. So seeing her probably be the wild child, it let me understand how freedom was possible and like kind of testing the norm with things. I think that definitely was ingrained in me. Even though she thought I was a square, she thought so. Like, I think I was wild in the way I moved in My career and I took a lot of. I did a lot of things within my career that she's even been shocked about. And that's how I kind of expressed it. Jumping from the next thing to the next thing, but always making sure it was a big thing and the right thing. I think there's a certain way to prepare for those kind of jumps as well. I didn't just jump without knowing, like, what's next or in case I do fall, do I have backup? I always try to prepare myself just a little so there can be a little bit of ease about doing something so drastic, but also being very in tuned when it's time to leave and knowing like, if I don't leave, like, it might kill me anyways from the inside.

Jade (23:50)

That's. That was, that was kind of where I wanted to go. First of all, I was thinking the same thing you were thinking, Kia, because so many of us are conditioned to be scared to make moves like that. And, and it's just because we, the stability is what we have needed, like, as a people. Right. So when we find something, we're like, this is safe. This is going to take care of me. So I think it's such a blessing and a gift that your mom gave you, that sense of freedom in that way. And I know you talked about your boredom and like feeling it, but how do you really know when it's time to pivot in those careers, especially with the diversity in which you've pivoted?

Jasmine Imani (24:30)

I think there's a certain sense of realizing you're kind of pushing against a wave or maybe even pushing against like, what's next. In a sense, I'm just, I'm very. I try to stay in tune from inside of what's going on and how I'm feeling. And I often notice it'll come down to, like, health and like, not feeling good in my body. I'll keep the patterns of my day to day and realize, like, I feel like I'm struggling and that usually means something else is for me around the corner and like, I got to make that jump.

Jade (25:09)

I think so many of us are not taught to listen to that little belly, you know what I mean?

Kia (25:14)

Yeah, I think it is, you know, sort of. I think you've trained yourself or taught yourself how to trust that inner voice, as Jade was saying, but also to trust it, which I feel like is another skill on top of that. And so especially now, right, given in this climate where people like us are under attack in a lot of sort of conventional fields and Are feeling. Feeling even more unsure or unstable? Wondering just from your vantage, what advice do you have for people who may be dealing with that dis. Ease inside and feeling like there may be something else. But given sort of where we are, like sociopolitically and culturally are feeling. Feeling fear? Are there like small. Is there a baby steps that we can take? What. What would advice would you. Is it, you know, how do you learn to trust that feeling and move within it?

Jasmine Imani (26:25)

Yeah.

Kia (26:26)

Especially in a time. In a time like this.

Jasmine Imani (26:29)

Yeah. I definitely have to give my mother credit for raising me in a very free household. So in that sense, I was always kind of left to figure it out in a good way where she didn't really put a lot of her beliefs and values on me, but she showed them to me and she always let me know I was kind of free to choose and free to be and free to go as long as I wasn't like hurting anyone or hurting myself. She really did give me a lot of freedom. When I look back, I'm like, that's wild how much freedom I have. So I think with that freedom came a lot of self discovery for myself. And so, I mean, if anything, I feel like I tell a lot of people that, you know, no one has the answers but you. So you really got to get to know you and you really got to develop relationship with self. Because everything you need to know or everything you need to feel, only you can do that. No one can come in and do that for you. And I just think, especially right now, we have so much distraction going on. And it's not distraction from one problem to the next or distract anything else. It's really distracting us from ourselves. It can be a hard task to like, be quiet with yourself. So I think that itself is like a practice and understanding that a lot of us, especially I'll speak for black women, we have all the power. We have the power to tune in and to listen. There's a voice inside of there that's yours, and you need to like, tune into that and get rid of all distractions, anything that's blocking that. I'm very clear about my boundaries with everything from food to people to where I'm sitting to the street I'm walking down. I'm very clear about, like, where my energy is going as a protection. And it really does serve me in a sense that I'm able to tune back in and listen to those little things or even hear really the universe, God, the divine talking back to me, whether it be through signs, whether it be through someone saying something to me. When we get kind of quiet, we can kind of hear God just talking right back to us.

Jade (28:54)

What are. To that point, what are some of your practices? Because you, you're so, you're so busy and you're so busy with so many amazing things. I know that personally and you all heard the bio. What are some of the practices that you are very intentional about with yourself when. When you're listening to yourself, but what are some of those physical, tangible things that you do that have helped you to be quiet and sit with self to really listen?

Jasmine Imani (29:25)

I would say they change a lot. I'm a very seasonal person. I try to flow with the seasons and how I'm feeling. So I try to make nothing like a rule. But I do try to stay consistent. So I give myself like quarters to really give myself some consistency to see if it's something I'm taking to the next quarter. So I tell a lot of people, like, take things in bite sizes, like smaller sizes, so you can not overwhelm yourself. I think we're very much in a culture of overwhelm with news, with practices, with beauty, with routines. So it's really figuring out, you know, what works for you and your schedule and assessing that. I've had some great business coaches in the one practice that is consistent with any business coach I get and I love is when we go through my schedule, when we discuss what are the things that energize me and what are the things that deplete me. So figuring out how to address your schedule in that way or how to address your life in that way, and making sure you are including those things that bring you joy, the things that energize you or what time of the day or what season are you most active? Really learning my only my own body pattern and like my energy flow really, really helps. Especially as a mother. We have to give ourselves so much grace and understanding about our time. I think anyone does. So really I say the first step is assessing, like what's draining you. Next step is like, what energizes you? How is. How am I putting that into my schedule? What is the practice that I need to do? And just I tell everybody, stay so fucking. Excuse me, I'm cursing, please.

Jade (31:17)

Do you know where you are? We at the club. You can say whatever you want.

Jasmine Imani (31:23)

Love it. I tell everybody to remain very curious, like, ask the questions, Ask the questions to yourself. If you know someone to talk to, ask them the questions. Everything comes beautiful when you are like, just very curious. About what serves you, what's helping you, what's hurting you. Asking yourself those questions and being open for those answers to kind of roll on into you.

Jade (31:51)

That must be a theme right now because I was just talking to Noah on the way to school the other day about staying curious, just in the sense of like her work. But I'm like, this is how you enjoy the work that you're doing. You have to, you have to be curious about it. You have to be curious about every facet of what makes it what it is. If I'm watching something, me and XD were watching Prison Brides the other day or 90 Day Fiance, one of them, and they went to, to Tasmania. I think we started looking at. He was eating kangaroo meat and I was like, wait, where do kangaroos come from? Like, what dinosaurs do they descend from? I know kids about to be like, please, with these dinosaurs.

Kia (32:32)

I wonder where everything comes from, the dinosaurs. I am like all the way back to dinosaurs. It's always the point of origin.

Jade (32:40)

It really is. I'm telling you, God created Adam, Eve and dinosaurs. So I have always, kid, that is the start of all things. So, but it's, it's that. And then I'm like, okay, let's watch documentaries on kangaroos. And I realize I want to learn all these things about kangaroos. I know nothing about kangaroos. And I'm giving her that as an example of how she can really be curious and, and enjoy what it is that she's delving herself into. So I love that you said that if you were to give some tips to somebody who wants to pivot and they're feeling dissatisfied, they're asking themselves those questions that you were just, that you were just saying that you ask yourself, how would you tell them to start to prepare that pivot in, in, in that next move, Especially if they don't know what that next move is going to be.

Jasmine Imani (33:29)

I always, I mean, for me, my North Star, when I'm ready to pivot, is kind of setting myself up. So I say, collect your fuck you money. So when you have that money set aside, it really does root you in a groundedness of like, well, I have nothing to lose. And I think it, it gives you a certain confidence to move swiftly and to move when you need to move. When you feel like something to fall back on, it might be a month, it might be three months, it might be the year. But when you hit your goal of what you think that is, it does energize you to move on to the next thing. With confidence. And you want to move through these phases with a certain confidence and a certain knowing that you know what you're doing regardless of anything you're hearing around you or what you're feeling right now. It's good to have that. So number one is your fucking money. That's been since I was like 18.

Jade (34:34)

Okay.

Kia (34:35)

We stand making like informed leaps, right. And sort of like prepared, like take the leap but have your parachute. Right. Don't just be out here just, just going like willy nilly. I love the, the preparation. I think a lot of times what can be challenging in a pivot is that you have a lot of us have like several different passions. Right. And how do you sort of distinguish between I'm really into this or is this a potential direction for me? So like, you know, are all passions or all areas of interest? Because I really do like. Jade, think that your advice around staying curious is very timely. Right. I'm reading a, reading a book and you know, connected to some work that I'm doing at work and you know, the author said the quickest way to stay stagnant is to think you know, everything. So just like remaining curious. Absolutely. Having your fuck you money and being prepared. Absolutely. But what about the girls who have 19 ideas? What about the ADHD of it all who are interested in 39 things and are trying to figure out how do you, how do you identify what area to pursue?

Jasmine Imani (35:55)

That's like, I tell people they need to test everything. So if you're really passionate about something and you want to, when you want it to produce income, like prove yourself. Prove it to yourself. What, what is that thing you're doing? Can you start? You know, we hear this all the time. Someone makes something, they start off as a farmer's market, they reach a certain amount of sales. Okay. Now they put it online. So now they built the website. Once they build a website, set another goal. Can you hit this amount to eventually? It's like, what can replace your salary or replace your cost of living? You know, you have to keep testing models to see in order if this is something you should be leaping towards. I know tons of ladies who've worked a full time job and their side job of their passion project and eventually that project. That's a fantastic thing to do. But also I'm the crazy girl who's like, even if it's not replacing your full income yet, if you're just like, I need to get out of here so I can go ahead and fully put full energy into that. If you feel Comfortable doing that. You should do that as well. I don't think there's a right or a wrong. No one can set, like, what your limit should be before you leave, but you should do it. Like, what's making you curious, what's making you wake up in the morning and, like, want to do that. And if you really want to do that, what other energy can you put into that? What are you building as you're going along with putting away money to the side to know you're good, it really has to be something within you that, like, keeps you going, that keeps, like, that energy going, that knowing going. Because I believe, like, once you've locked into something that's like, you're waking up in the morning, you want to do it, you're always thinking about it. You're entering your flow for that. That's the, like, that's the beginnings of something. If you have a lot of curiosity, a lot of questions, you're trying to figure out how it's done, and you're moving with speed with that, with, like, that kind of curiosity, that really means there's something there that you need to go down that path. I think a lot of people stay at positions in jobs. One of the biggest thing when I left my last kind of like nine to five thing was I wasn't learning anything anymore. So if you're somewhere and you're not learning and you're. You're basically becoming stagnant. If you're somewhere and you're realizing you're not learning, you're not getting a new skill. A wonderful thing I've heard people say is, like, you should be looking at your job like a learning experience. All my jobs have taught me things. Anytime I went into someone else's office or building, it's because I wanted to learn about that and I wanted to know how they did that. Any corporate job I've ever worked at, I have learned everything I needed to know to get to the next step of running my own things.

Jade (39:11)

That's how you use things to your advantage. That is, that's how you use those spaces to your advantage. You hear that some of you young girlies who were getting mad at Tabitha Brown when she told you you need.

Jasmine Imani (39:21)

To work.

Jade (39:24)

Pursuing your passion.

Jasmine Imani (39:25)

Let me tell you something.

Jade (39:26)

She can tell you to quit.

Jasmine Imani (39:27)

Yeah. You have to change that mindset and think, I'm getting paid to learn. You can go to college and pay them, or you can go get a job and get paid to learn.

Jade (39:38)

Yeah. No, yeah.

Kia (39:40)

Ideally you'll do both.

Jade (39:43)

Yeah, exactly. All of it provides a level of education. So I love that.

Commercial Announcer (39:53)

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Jasmine Imani (40:01)

Hi.

Jade (40:02)

Hey.

Commercial Announcer (40:02)

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Jasmine Imani (40:19)

Wow.

Commercial Announcer (40:19)

Hurry in for Black Friday happening now at the Home Depot.

Jade (40:23)

As the air turns crispy, you know that breathe deep and go apple picking crispy. And the holidays are drawing closer, comfort really becomes the best gift of all. I mean, listen, the temperatures are going down, but our ages are going up. And honestly, nothing replaces comfort at a certain level in your life. Quinn's delivers layers that last. Sweaters, outerwear, everyday essentials that feel luxurious, look timeless, and make holiday dressing and gifting effortless. Who doesn't want effortless these days? Who doesn't need effortless? Quince has it all. 50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear. Denim that never goes out of style and down outerwear built to take on the season. And you all know what the season is. Okay? When it gets brick outside, when the hawk comes out. My bestie, she's been vying for a new soup pot. My cousin's been talking about a new winter coat, and I needed some tops. Quince didn't disappoint in any of those categories. Do you hear me? Okay, I got a fire stainless steel pop for her and for myself, I'm really digging their poplin crop long sleeve shirts. So I got them in both colors. The crop's not OD either. You know, at this juncture in my life, I wasn't going for, like, business in the collar and discotheque in the belly. You feel me? My belly is not trying to go public this season. But the crop was just enough crop to give it a little interesting flair to your classic poplin. And I really appreciate it. And let me tell you, don't sleep on the pieces you really want. There was a trench coat I was eyeing that is no longer available. And while there are multiple really, really cute variations like this stretch crepe trench coat and espresso, all right, I'm telling you, there's still other options. It taught me a lesson, all right? Get what you need when you see it in the size when it's there, because it's not like there's 2,000 of them available. Make sure that you are intentional about your pieces when you really want your pieces because they might not be there tomorrow. Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and last from Quince, perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quince.com grown for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's all year and unheard of. Now available in Canada too. All right, go ahead. Canada. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com grown to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com grown. And I love in all of these pivots too, you have your, you said you have a business coach. So you're not just taking these leaps blindly and you do a little bit of coaching yourself. Actually, I can attest to that. Jasmine is helping me to line up all of my jade of all jades things. So as I am very quiet online, I am trying to get things together behind the scenes. And you've really offered some really useful questions just to start off with. We started off with questions which speaks to everything that you've just said because these are things that literally nobody else can answer but you.

Jasmine Imani (43:39)

Yeah.

Jade (43:40)

And that is, that's what I'm noticing the theme is from you, this whole conversation thus far is that you have people that you can rely on. You have your community, you have your network. But there are things that you have to be able to answer for yourself, and not a single other soul is going to be able to do that for you. So we really appreciate that particular aspect of it. What do you think the differences between, like, mentorship and consulting? Is consulting something that you're looking to do with all of this expertise? Take it away.

Jasmine Imani (44:11)

So mentorship is something I think in the past couple of decades, it's, it's kind of evolved into what is mentorship. I've heard a lot of mentor types talk about how their mentees need to, like, come at them differently. Time is different. The time they spent with their mentees is different. It's definitely not the same energy as when I was growing up and I was told to find the mentor. And I think as we evolve, also what a mentor is, has evolved. I've definitely been a mentor to many, but not in the same capacity of, like, old school mentorship. Like, people have come in different areas of my life and asked for help. And, you know, by the end of it, they were like, you were my mentor and I didn't even realize it. So it's like a Evolution of that. I know growing up, I always thought I needed to find a mentor. And actually, I spoke to intuitive in my early 20s, and I remember I was crying. I was like, I can't find the right mentor. No one's, like, consistent with me. And she was like, baby girl, you have mentors everywhere. You have the Internet. Like, choose your people and follow their career. You can read their articles, you can listen to them. And, like, my mind opened up in a different way where I was like, oh, my God, I've been blocking myself. Like a mentor. You and you not know who they are, but you can be following their path, you could be reading their books, you can be studying them and what they did in order to help give you a little direction and mapping. I definitely think coaching is a little different than mentorship. I think they definitely can be combined. But when you get a coach, they're holding you accountable. One thing I've done in the past couple years is, like, I find the athlete journey kind of like, I'm curious about that. Like, their endurance, their work ethic, the way they have to push beyond themselves to get to the next. Even though we look at them as already great, they are constantly challenging themselves to be greater in a way. And so with that, I take that into, like, the mental game of things. And I just think, like, a coach is needed for anyone building anything. You're not meant to do things alone. And you sometimes might think that, like, that means you need a partner or you need a team. And sometimes it just, you, you are the one who has to make the decisions. You are the one that needs to stretch your capacity in the sense. And a coach will help get you there. I'd like to call a coach, like a business therapist.

Jade (47:00)

Oh, I like that.

Jasmine Imani (47:01)

So I like that. It's wonderful to have someone to touch base with on a weekly or even monthly to check in about, like, where you're at. What are you trying to build? Can we break down the steps of how you're trying to get there? Where can we adjust? Are you, like, overwhelming yourself? I think as black women, we do a lot of burning out, and we do a lot of functioning burning out. So a lot of us don't even realize that we're burnt out because we know how to keep moving. So that needs to be adjusted. And sometimes you need someone tapping you on your shoulder to kind of let you know, like, no, it's not time to rest so you can get back to full capacity. Or, like, let's rework things in a different way. I love business coaches. I've. I've had three of them in my journey, and I try to switch it up from here to there, just like you would a therapist. Sometimes coaches do different things. Everyone has a different working style. But I highly recommend for anyone who's running their own business, building something, you get to a certain point where you feel like exhaustion's coming or you're already there, it usually means it's time for a business coach.

Jade (48:20)

Do you feel like business coaches have been. Do you. Do you recommend that to entrepreneurs in their. In their. In their work and in their fields? Do you recommend a business coach as a part of the success of making sure that your. Your business stays grounded and helping you to see things from different angles and perspectives?

Jasmine Imani (48:41)

Definitely. I think it's just like, you know, we hear it all the time now. Everyone needs a therapist. And if you have a business, everyone needs a business coach, even if you do have a partner. I know tons of partnerships. They have business coaches. I have someone I'm speaking to now. They're getting ready to set up a business with a partner. And I suggest that you should get a business coach to help, like, work out who's doing what and how you guys set up the business. There's always someone who kind of knows more or who's been there and done that, So a coach in that way can get you there quicker instead of sometimes having to figure out things. I definitely believe that it's okay to fail and to try again, but sometimes if you get a coach, it can probably get you there a little quicker.

Jade (49:39)

Go ahead, sis.

Kia (49:40)

No, I was just gonna ask, you know, how do you identify a business coach if someone is looking to find one is there? It's. How do you go about finding one if that's. If you're feeling like you might benefit from those services.

Jasmine Imani (49:57)

For me personally, I like to ask around. I love a good recommendation. I think the coaching realm has had its boom. So there's a lot out there, but there's also a lot of noise at times as well. So I really like a recommendation from another business owner who has worked with that coach. That usually helps me off that. I'm big on recommendations from people I know or friend of a friend knowing someone. So I usually ask around and I usually. If there's somewhere to post, I'll post about it every time. That has worked a lot of times. Actually, my last business coach, I was just following her on Instagram for a while, probably a whole year before I decided, like, you know what? I want to meet with her, because I saw the way she was flowing online and in the advice she was giving, and I was like, she's so on point with what she. She's talking about. I really want to speak with her.

Jade (50:53)

How do you. Speaking of on point, how do you kind of identify if a business coach is a legit and also for you, because, like you said, there's so much noise. So what's the best way of like, deciphering if a person is just, you know, like, you know what? I'm good. I'm just. I'm just putting my services out. Like, how do you not identify that? Because you already know.

Jasmine Imani (51:17)

Yeah. You know, this is when I really do. Go back to knowing yourself, because it's definitely a vibe check. Like, is this someone you can communicate with? Do you feel open with this person on top of what is their resume? What were they doing before? All my coaches have come from working in corporate and entrepreneurship entrepreneurs. At some point, they might have even been entrepreneurs themselves. So I like them to have that experience because I feel like they can connect on a deeper level of, like, understanding, you know, what I went through. You also want a coach who listens and is curious about you. I think that's a big one. I've met with people and they haven't been curious enough about me, and they've entered in kind of like a coach of like, I'm gonna tell you what you need to do and how to do it. And a lot of times I have to come back and be like, I've done that and I've been there. That's already happened. Yeah, right. You came into the room without asking anything about me. I think that's a big red flag. They need to get to know you and understand you pretty quickly so you guys can get to work on, like, what's needed. But I do, especially with black women, I think sometimes there's this glaze over people where they underestimate what we've done and where we've been. I've experienced it my whole career. I don't think you should ever enter situations with people like that. There's like. There's no room for that.

Jade (52:59)

No, you ain't wrong about that. What? Okay, so now let's pivot into where you are now because you are in the lash care world and of it in a way that I had never experienced before. This is not extensions. Jasmine is taking care of the health of your lashes. Okay. The health of them. So let's talk about how, first of all, where were you, right before you went to school, you went to. To BS Esthetician, right?

Jasmine Imani (53:30)

Yeah. Yeah. You have to be an esthetician, at least in New York, to be touching on people's bodies.

Jade (53:36)

Thank God.

Kia (53:37)

Yes, yes, yes, correct.

Jasmine Imani (53:40)

So after my. After my child and I decided to go back to work, I did get back into fashion. And I was a creative director at a licensed denim license company, big company here in New York. And I. I felt the joy draining out of my body. And I was basically teaching my boss a lot of things and I wasn't learning anything. So at that point, I knew a switch up was coming in, like, complete transparency. It took me a whole year to sit still to figure out what was next. I remember the exact day I knew I had to go. And I made myself open to understanding what was going to come next. And it was, I want to say, exactly a year. I was sitting at my desk and I just came from a lash appointment. And I was just like, that's so much joy in, like, leaving this space, closing my eyes, having someone touch my body and work on me. And I wake up and I feel beautiful. I feel good. I feel energized. I was like, how can I do something like that? Like, my mind switched into service. I'd never worked a service job in that capacity. Like, I never got the joy of, like, being a bartender or a waitress. I think those are, like, the jobs you need to have to know people.

Jade (54:59)

I agree. Bias, but I agree.

Jasmine Imani (55:02)

I don't think anybody would have ever thought I would get into service, but I loved a beauty treatment. This is right before the beauty boom. And I realized every time I would go into a lash or brow space, it felt like, you know, very factory or it was very high end. There was nothing in between. And to me personally, everything. The lash environment was a little corny. So I was like, where's the middle ground for this? Where is the bringing, like, essence of somewhere you would want to be in, somewhere you wanted to sit in, but also someone guiding you. You kind of like a doctor's office, but with your lashes in your brows. So with that, I left my job and I went to esthetician school, knocked that out. And I, as soon as I got out, I just started the business, built the website, started seeing the people, and, like, reaching out to people.

Kia (56:01)

Give us a breakdown of the timeline. So you said it was a year. You were sitting at your desk and it was a year. So walk us through, like, how much time did you sort of take to sort of build up, build up your money, decide what you were going to do. Like, because I think a lot of times, and, you know, it's dope to hear your story, but a lot of times people just sort of hear that outside of the context of, like, a real timeline, like, do I need to save my money for three months?

Jasmine Imani (56:33)

Months?

Kia (56:33)

Do I need to save my money for six months?

Jasmine Imani (56:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kia (56:36)

Like, how did. How. Yeah. How did you find the school? How did you, you know, just curious about. For your. For your process.

Commercial Announcer (56:41)

Yeah.

Jade (56:42)

Oh, yeah. Break down our process. Even your ruminating because you came from the appointment.

Jasmine Imani (56:47)

Yeah.

Jade (56:47)

So, like, in between that time. Yeah. Give us your whole tell. Paint us a picture.

Kia (56:52)

Yeah.

Jasmine Imani (56:53)

It was. To me, it happened really quick, but it was a year of sitting still. So in that year, the day I was like, I need to get out of here, like, this isn't serving me in any way. I think I started saving a little bit out of my paycheck just from there. I don't think I had a goal yet, but I knew I needed a cushion. I also had a partner at the time, so I felt like I would be okay. And I just had a baby, so I knew I was gonna be okay. But it was still a savings that I wanted to put away for myself as well to figure out.

Kia (57:26)

Got it.

Jasmine Imani (57:26)

You know, it hits the fan. Do we have backup? I was just raised like that. So after that, in the process of actually sitting still. I shouldn't say I was sitting still. I was moving. I started consulting. I took on a few clients on the side at my job. I was working another job, basically because my job was easy at that point. Like I said, I was teaching my boss I could do what I was doing. And then I had the. The rest of. Rest of the day. So I started taking on clients. I think. I know, I know. I started a social media management company with another girl that lasted about three months.

Jade (58:06)

Okay.

Jasmine Imani (58:08)

One of my friends started a meditation company he wanted to bring into corporate spaces. So I started consulting them on how to start the company, getting design, put in marketing for them, figuring out, like, setting them up, what the flow should be as they launch this business. I think those are the only two clients I took on. And then at some point, when I realized how much I enjoyed my lash appointments that day, I came back from that appointment a year later, I had a complete download. And the download was this beautiful space that I wanted to sit in and do lashes. And I just thought my first brain was like, oh, I'll do this on the weekends. So then we hit the research. And as I researched, I was like, you need to be a licensed esthetician, but I'll go to school after work or on the weekends. Then I had to remember I had a child.

Jade (59:02)

So I know we. We forget oftentimes.

Jasmine Imani (59:06)

Yes. So once I realized that was not happening, and I researched, you know, what it takes to go to esthetician school? The cost, the time, how many hours did I have to put in? How long would it take? It was like, you could go part time, I believe, for a year, or you can knock it out in four months. And I was like, you know what? I just need to knock this out. So I had a conversation with my partner and was like, I need four months to go to esthetician school and get this license, and I'm going to launch this business. And we agreed, and that's what I did. I quit my job. I want to say maybe, like, the next two weeks. I gave them the month notice, and I went and met with. I went to Aveda in Soho. I went to meet with them and asked them, like, what was the process? What was the cost? What was the payment plan? And I enrolled on the spot, knowing I needed to go to all beauty schools, essentially teach you the same thing. How to pass the test, how to not pass disease. The thing I liked about Aveda, they had a level of holistic beauty to it, where you got to learn about essential oils. I was like, that's a plus for me. I grew up in a household with essential oils. Let's do that. So I. I signed up with them. I went to school for the four months. And let me say, having the privilege of going back to school in any capacity is a blessing. I enjoyed myself.

Jade (60:27)

It is.

Jasmine Imani (60:28)

Oh, my.

Jade (60:28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's different when you go back as an adult, right?

Jasmine Imani (60:32)

It's so different. It's so different.

Kia (60:34)

It is.

Jasmine Imani (60:35)

I went to. After high school, I went to Fidham, the Fashion Institute in Los Angeles. And it was fun, but it was a struggle because I went, I think three weeks after I graduated high school, I hopped into the Fashion Institute. So I really didn't give myself a break. So going back to school on that capacity of, like, having the time and the space and being around mostly younger women in that space was just such a lovely experience. Learning about people's bodies, touching people, how to properly touch people. While I was there, seeing how outdated a lot of books are still and how outdated practices are, unfortunately, which also brought more curiosity for me. There's a lot of white space here. And a lot of improvement and a lot of help that needs to be given. And that's another thought and process in my future as well when it comes to beauty. But going through that was magical. As soon as I got out of school. No, actually, while I was in school, I was building out my business plan. And when I say business plan plan, some people hear business plan and it feels overwhelming. This was a business plan for me, so it was something I could look at and build as I was. These ideas were downloading in my head. It really helped. It really set a foundation for me on what I wanted, why I wanted it, how I wanted to serve other people. And then I'm a very visual person, so I love a mood board. I love to, like, think of what would the photo shoot look like. All those things are things I tell people. If you're building some kind of brand, you should start with that also, because it's something you will consistently go back to to keep you encouraged, to keep you motivated. Think of it as, like your personal guide on what you're doing while why you're doing it and how you're going to do it. Even if it doesn't have numbers or projections involved. It's just something everyone should do when you're building out something.

Jade (62:44)

So absolutely.

Jasmine Imani (62:45)

Once I had that going and I knew, like, what it was going to be as soon as I graduated, I was contacting friends, contacting all my friends in beauty. I was letting them know what I was doing and I was telling them, let me do a treatment on you. And to me it was nothing but, like, doing it over and over and over, over and over again. I did go to LA to train for lash extensions, lash lifting, eventually for brows. I did training, so I took all the classes I could. And then I had to work on actual bodies. When it comes to beauty, everybody is so different from one another. So it really just takes time and experience and, like, failure sometimes to figure it out. But once again, remaining very curious about, like, what works, what doesn't work, why doesn't it work. And it was something I was so curious and fascinated about. It kind of snowballed into its own thing. I had friends who would send me influencers. I eventually, in my first year, I had a handful of, like, celebrities. And it was just something that grew into something very quickly before the pandemic.

Jade (63:58)

Hit, which I'm sure was a confirmation that this is what you were supposed to be doing.

Jasmine Imani (64:04)

Yes, exactly.

Commercial Announcer (64:12)

Black Friday is happening now at the Home Depot, which means it's time to get your home ready for all your holiday moments and traditions.

Jasmine Imani (64:20)

Hi.

Jade (64:21)

Hey.

Commercial Announcer (64:21)

Right now you can bring bring home holiday magic with our wide assortment of dazzling pre lit trees under $99. Spend more time creating memories and less time assembling with quick connect technology that makes it easy to set up your new tree in a few clicks.

Jasmine Imani (64:38)

Wow.

Commercial Announcer (64:39)

Hurry in for Black Friday. Happening now at the Home Depot.

Jade (64:42)

20Th Century Studios presents the upcoming comedy Ella McKay from Academy Award winning writer director James L. Brooks. Emma Mackey plays Ella McKay, an idealistic young woman who juggles her family and work life in a story about the people you love and how to survive them. Featuring an all star cast including Emma Mackey, Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack loudon. Kumail Nanjani, Iowa. Debery. Julie Kavner. With Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. Ella McKay. In theaters December 12th.

Kia (65:16)

You said, you said a lot. So thank you for, for sharing that because I think a lot of times we like you get, we get caught up in the sort of benchmarks but you know.

Jasmine Imani (65:27)

Yeah.

Kia (65:28)

The muddy middle, messy middle of it all is a lot, that process where a lot of all of the sort of learning is sort of cultivated. I want to go back. So I think, you know, both you and Jade, I think, I think so. The, the literature is very, the research is very clear around sort of that conventional college going age being a myth. Right? Not necessarily a myth but, but the truth of the matter is a lot of us don't ne. Don't always enjoy our immediate post secondary education experiences because we don't know who we are yet. So the beauty about going quote unquote back to school is that you have a little bit more clarity and intention and we, you have a lot of more motivation when you're clear on what, you know, what you want to do. So much of sort of that conventional college age going is just figuring it out and sometimes you figure it out in the journey, but a lot of times you don't. So. So yeah, I'm grateful, you know, because I think the lesson there is to give people permission to sort of go.

Jasmine Imani (66:31)

Back.

Kia (66:33)

And not feel like it's too late to.

Jade (66:36)

Yeah.

Kia (66:37)

To have that, that aspect of the journey. You also said something about failure being a part of the process and I think that is.

Jade (66:44)

Yes.

Kia (66:45)

That is like super key. Can you say, can you say more about, about that so much. So much of us are hyper focused on wins.

Jade (66:57)

Yes.

Kia (66:57)

And so frustrated by failure that we stop. So.

Jasmine Imani (67:03)

So talk to us a little bit.

Kia (67:04)

About the failure piece and push, pushing through that.

Jasmine Imani (67:08)

Yeah. Yeah. If you don't. If you don't fail, you're not gonna win. Like, it's just point blank. You don't get to success without failure. Like, it's. It's right, it's been proven, it's been shown. So it's about how you get up and when you get up and what you do after you get up. Because it's a process. Anything you do is a beautiful process to it. You know, at the end of the day, it really is a mindset to me. It's a mindset of, are you willing to hurt yourself and then put those pieces back together, crumble again, Put those pieces back together. And in that process, do you realize how much you've grown and all that you learned from that cracking, from that breaking apart what went wrong? And did you kind of optimize that because of that? Anything you decide to build is never going to be like, off that. Just the biggest success you can have a. Like a hit. But what do you do after that hit? You see a lot of things hit strong and then they disappear. It's something in the back didn't like, pick themselves back up after there was a failure after that. So all that is a process. I think it's a beautiful process, and I think it's a mindset shift that you have to have. It's. At some point you have to start enjoying that in a way. And it's wild to think about, how can I enjoy getting my feelings hurt? And it really is a mind shift of going, this is the process. And it hurts. But it hurts really good at times to know, like, all right, shit went to, like, up in flames, but, like, there's ashes. What are you doing with that? Like, what's the next molding for that? And that's when it. When I said, I've been on a journey of, like, learning about the athlete. If you watch a lot of those stories, you realize that you. You get to see behind the curtain. A lot of people don't look behind a curtain. And it blows my mind. And that's where the curiosity needs to come in. Yes, that thing looks bright and beautiful, but look behind the curtain. How did that get here? What was taken to get here? The one thing I do. Not one thing, but one of the big things. I really do enjoy the transparency on social media. And so, like, if you're gonna put yourself on social media, follow those things. Follow those things. You want to know about, like, change your algorithm in a sense, because there's a lot of founders, owners, entrepreneurs, lot of information, them telling the utmost truth. We are in an era of truth. We are living in a time of truth. It's there if you speak it. And like the way people are breaking down their stories and really breaking down how they build things. You'll see all the failures that came before they even got to that thing. And it's usually a lot of failure before you get to that thing where you look at and go like, oh, they've made it.

Jade (70:16)

Absolutely.

Jasmine Imani (70:17)

It's a lot of work to be done.

Jade (70:20)

And I love the point about things burning down to the ground and like sifting through the ashes because the other side to that is when things burn to the ground, that gives you a brand new plot to work with as well, you know what I mean? And you figure out how the fire started and how you want to rebuild more for it wherever you are in that point in life, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I think I want to want a ranch style home now as opposed to a two story or a multi family. I have this plot here that I can use. So I love, I love that aspect of it. And I, I think like Kia said, all through this conversation, the theme has been curiosity, asking yourself questions, intentionality with those questions that you ask yourself and also kind of throwing that fear out the window. And I think so many of us are so afraid to fail. We're so afraid to fail because we've been conditioned that failure is failure.

Jasmine Imani (71:15)

Yes.

Jade (71:15)

And that's it.

Kia (71:16)

Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. Building on that says I think failure. Yes. But also like sometimes when you try things, you got to look stupid. And I think being, being comfortable in that space of looking stupid. And I think, I think, you know, God is dealing with me in this in a lot of ways. And it is, it is. I think it goes back to sort of, you know, healing from perfectionism, you know, trying to embrace radical self acceptance, working through some of the sort of ways in which I've been socialized to just not give myself a lot of grace and you know, being, you know, the gifted and talented kids, right. Are going through it right now. We got a little stuff, we got a little stuff community on the interwebs where we are processing it and dealing with our ADHD diagnoses and all the life. But I think, I mean I'm seeing it in such small ways, but like it also translates to bigger things. So like, you know, I'm managing a team at work now, which is dope, but it's stretching me in a lot of ways and I think What I'm realizing is, you know, I have gotten to be a lot comfortable, a lot more comfortable sort of trying things in front of other people. I'm very, very much accustomed to sort of like going in my own little lab in my own little desk and workshopping things there. So if I get it wrong, don't nobody know about it. But when you're leading a group of people, you gotta fail out loud and fail in front of an audience sometimes. And that takes a muscle even all the way to the gym when I'm like, you know, I'm taking step classes, I'm trying to do things, and I want to get better at it. And I think I'm also realizing that a part of getting better at a thing means you got to give yourself permission to suck at it first. So there's. There's so much. There's so much. And I have so much dissonance there because there's such a. A part of me that wants to be good at things and I don't. I don't. You know what I'm saying? And so, like, it's literally having to train that part of the. Of me to feel safe enough to, you know, come outside, like, to feel safe.

Jasmine Imani (73:39)

Yeah, right.

Kia (73:40)

Sort of say that out loud. It's literally that. That small.

Jasmine Imani (73:45)

Small.

Kia (73:45)

I'm literally seeing picturing like a third grade year, a third grade Takia. And I'm telling her, it's okay to get that wrong out loud. It's okay. You didn't know and now you know and it's okay. But I. I love that. I love that vulnerability is coming back in style. I think we are getting away, like you said on social media from everything being so curated, everything being so perfect, and people are telling the truth in a way that we've been waiting for. So just adding, like, you know, you know, I love that you talked about practicing and getting things wrong and make. Making mistakes being, you know, central to the work and central to. To doing it right. Because we don't talk about that nearly enough.

Jasmine Imani (74:34)

No, we don't. We don't. We need, especially as black women, like, we. We need permission from ourselves. Like, yes, we just need permission for ourselves. We are creators. We are creators. And yes, a lot has been put around us to, like, mute that.

Jade (74:56)

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of times, while also having a lot put on us as well, which is a crazy ju. But please, the cost.

Kia (75:05)

The costs are higher when we fail. And I think that's what my problem exactly. The costs are high. People can fail all the time. You know, white folks get to make mistakes out loud. It doesn't cost them their livelihood.

Jasmine Imani (75:17)

Hello? Yes.

Jade (75:19)

Yes.

Kia (75:19)

So there's literal fear in my body that I gotta work through sometimes. And to be okay with that to. And. Because the truth is like, the. The. That's another way that the playing field is not level for us. And that's just. I feel like we want. I want to name that, because if there's anybody else out there dealing with actual anxiety in your body about getting something wrong, the stakes are higher for us a lot. A lot of times. So that anxiety is. Is not you being dramatic. It's a real thing.

Jade (75:53)

Yeah, it's a real thing. And I love the useful tools you've offered Jasmine, throughout this conversation to help combat that very real thing. Right. You have offered some. Some. Some. Some really key tools to. Just, like you said, giving yourself permission to feel the things that you need to feel. How does this. Does this work for me? Does this not work for me? Setting your boundaries and, like you said, trying things. Yeah, I'm gonna try this. If it doesn't work, I'm gonna move on to the next thing. So I think those. Those keys there have been. They've been so important throughout this conversation because they're going to give somebody a necessary boost who is moving out of their face. Fear not. And that's not a slight to them. That is by design. So I love that you're finding ways to break those barriers, especially for black women in business. You know, we're not going to let you go without giving us some lash tips. You have given us some key business tools and. But you cannot leave us without giving. You know, this is a. This is a audience of black women and more. And I just. I. We would all love some lash tips.

Kia (77:06)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jade (77:07)

If you have any, you would love to offer.

Jasmine Imani (77:09)

Let's see.

Kia (77:10)

Generally speaking.

Jasmine Imani (77:12)

Yeah.

Kia (77:12)

Oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no, I was gonna say, generally speaking, general health of lashes speaking. Right. You know, I think. Yeah, always. And, you know, so I feel like now we all are at the age where we are trying to preserve and sustain. Okay. So. So that. That I want you to sort of, you know, put that in your hat. But I'm also. Please, about. Okay, let me see how I want to say this, because I don't want to offend nobody. Amen. So this is the thing.

Jade (77:42)

Not just saying I would. I'm curious.

Jasmine Imani (77:46)

I'm so curious.

Kia (77:48)

It's the thing. It's the thing.

Jasmine Imani (77:49)

That's the thing.

Kia (77:50)

I'm fearful of The. For the young girlies out here because, you know.

Jade (77:55)

Oh. With the frontal lashes.

Kia (77:57)

Well, similar to the same way that I feel like millennials. Okay. There are some millennials who have.

Jade (78:03)

With the eyebrows.

Kia (78:04)

Who have tortured the eyebrow. Okay. And now we are in our 30s and 40s, and we are suffering the repercussions of torturing our.

Jade (78:13)

Everybody is like this.

Kia (78:16)

So I think. I think where we are now is some of our younger nieces and nephews and baby sisters, okay? We are putting some major pressure on our lashes. Okay?

Jasmine Imani (78:28)

In our.

Jade (78:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Y' all are gluing notebooks to your eyelids every day to go to ninth grade. And I'm talking. I don't. Please, Jasmine.

Kia (78:42)

So like your professional advisement, not only for us in our age, but also for those of us who are in community with young women who we want to help.

Jasmine Imani (78:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kia (78:53)

And we are fearful. We see their lashes kickball, changing out of their eyes right now. Just leaping and jumping out of their business.

Jasmine Imani (79:08)

Alone. I leave the youth alone. Try, fail and try again. So let them.

Kia (79:18)

Okay, okay. Let them do. I mean, torture their lashes.

Jade (79:24)

Oh, my. Okay. All right.

Kia (79:26)

Y' all heard here.

Jasmine Imani (79:29)

Eyebrows. We tortured our eyebrows. We did.

Jade (79:32)

We did.

Kia (79:34)

We did.

Jade (79:34)

Which is why we trying to help them not to lose their whole existence of eyelashes.

Kia (79:40)

They're not gonna have.

Jade (79:41)

You're not gonna have no eyelashes.

Kia (79:44)

Bald headed eyeballs.

Jasmine Imani (79:45)

Yeah, go ahead.

Jade (79:46)

Bald headed eyeballs. And this is coming from somebody with hooded eyes. So. Yes. Jasmine, I'm so sorry. Please give us. Please help us to help ourselves and others with some eyelash care.

Jasmine Imani (80:00)

They're simple things. Very simple things. I tell all my clients, no waterproof mascara. Never use waterproof mascara. It dehydrates your lash. It strips the lash, the hair.

Jade (80:13)

Jasmine told me. Remember when I came and told you I went to my eyelash tech and she told me it looks like somebody hacked your eyelashes. Ladies and gentlemen, Jasmine. Imani.

Kia (80:26)

Wow.

Jade (80:28)

So.

Kia (80:30)

So this is the thing.

Jade (80:31)

Yes.

Kia (80:31)

I don't.

Jasmine Imani (80:32)

I don't.

Kia (80:32)

I. I mean, just as a makeup girly, I don't often prefer it. I feel like the formula, it doesn't do what I needed to do. So I typically stay away from it. But talk to us why it's not good. Talk about why it's not good for the actual health of the lash. Because I don't think that's something that a lot of people.

Jasmine Imani (80:49)

Because to make it waterproof for it to stick on, it has to dehydrate the hair. So when you're dehydrating Your lash hair, it's more prone to be stripped. It's more prone to sleep slowly, trip, chip off. I've seen it 100 or one times and it makes it. When your lashes are dry, they're easier to fall out. Basically, when you're sleeping on them, they're chipping away. It's dehydrating. You want moisture in your lashes just like you need in your hair. It's like same chemistry going on.

Jade (81:20)

Okay. Okay, good. So what mascara do you recommend?

Jasmine Imani (81:26)

My top choices are a clean mascara. I think mascara formulas just got good probably like five years ago. So you have like. Okay, a say Beauty. A Westman Atelier, Tower 28. There's a handful of them on the market where they're nice and clean. They remove very nicely. You don't need to scrub your eyes down. Which brings me to the next one. You shouldn't be putting your skin care on your lashes or your brows. You want to avoid that because what's in your skin care may also be dehydrating your hair. It's meant for your skin. I tell people to use oil cleansers if they're going to use it on their eyes or on their hair. Oil cleansers are more hydrating. It's much better. I love a micellular water to remove eye makeup. That's the way to go. The other number one tool, the two number one tools is waterproof mascara lash curlers. Lash curlers are the devil. They shouldn't have been invented.

Kia (82:29)

They hurt. I don't even. I don't feel like. I've always felt like I've just. Maybe I don't have enough. Maybe I don't have enough lashes for that because I just feel like it takes my whole eyeball. It's inside.

Jade (82:40)

Yeah, it's.

Kia (82:41)

It hurts.

Jade (82:41)

Not many things give me anxiety, but eyelash curlers have always given me anxiety. Watching girls clamping their eye. Yeah.

Jasmine Imani (82:51)

Yep.

Jade (82:51)

Oh, the pumping. The pumping is bad for your mascara, right?

Jasmine Imani (82:55)

The pumping.

Jade (82:57)

Pumping your.

Kia (82:58)

Oh, like putting it in.

Jasmine Imani (83:03)

Okay, this is something. It's funny. I was just talking to my marketing coordinator. Mascara. You shouldn't have your mascara longer than like three months. So a lot of people aren't throwing out their mascara bottles like.

Jade (83:16)

No.

Jasmine Imani (83:17)

Once it hits that three month mark, if you knew what was in there, you would not want it near your eyes. Bacteria has now developed in there. You don't want that mascara anymore. Okay.

Jade (83:29)

Okay.

Kia (83:29)

Yeah.

Jade (83:32)

Okay. All right.

Jasmine Imani (83:35)

No longer than three months for me has always been. I like to buy the small size of mascaras, and I usually get through.

Kia (83:43)

And then I move on to another.

Jasmine Imani (83:44)

Yes. I use the little trial size because 1. The consistency has definitely, definitely changed after those months. But also, it's just. It's no longer. It's filled with germs. Throw it out. You don't want that.

Jade (83:57)

Okay. Travel size. Okay. Well, you gotta go, girl, because this is a mess. Down.

Kia (84:05)

I very rarely wear mascara. Honestly, when I put on makeup, I just put on a lash and let that be. And let that be what it is.

Jasmine Imani (84:16)

Yes.

Kia (84:16)

Right. And so, yeah, on a day like today where I am, you know, just working and I'm at my desk with the fresh face, after I've done my skin care, I just let the lashes be what they are.

Jasmine Imani (84:27)

Yeah, I do.

Kia (84:28)

I do. I do. Sometimes. Very rarely. Sometimes I only will bear mascara, like, on the bottom. But that's not often. That's really. If I want to give, like, some.

Jade (84:38)

And I Twiggy Fair.

Kia (84:41)

So I feel, you know, you got to get the. The technique is also a big thing. You got to do that. Right. Otherwise, yeah, you'll be out here like Tammy F. Baker. So spider girl. So to. In the same way. In the same way that there are clean mascaras, are there lash adhesives that we might stay away from?

Jasmine Imani (85:03)

I haven't done enough research on that. It's not my journey right now.

Jade (85:10)

Like, I don't put lashes on, so I don't. And I love that you answered that honestly, because people. People will throw anything out there. So we need people who are like. They're like, no, I actually. That's not my expertise. And then my last question. In the care of eyelashes serums.

Jasmine Imani (85:25)

Oh, yeah.

Jade (85:26)

How do you feel about serums? Growth serums?

Jasmine Imani (85:30)

So I'm. I'm the girl. I'm a libra. I like balance. You can give me chemicals, and you can give me natural. You probably need both. It's always a combo. Just because it's a chemical doesn't mean it's destroying your body. So research a lash serum that really works for you. There's a lot of lash serums now that have a balance of some really good things in there to balance out the stuff you don't want a lot of. Look for a lash serum that doesn't have, like, just pure junk in it that you don't recognize anything in it, because your last serum should also be conditioning. I love a lash serum. I tell my clients to go ahead for it, but with the lash serum, I tell them to use either coconut oil or castor oil on their lashes, very little, just so you can feel it and tap on your lashes at night. I've had clients who've grown out their lashes just from using castor oil and some from just using coconut oil. Because the thing is, their lashes were probably just dehydrated, so they were never getting to their full length. And they were chipping off or breaking off because they were dehydrated. The last thing which shouldn't be missed is sleeping on your back is very key for everything. Your lash hair, your brow hair, your hair, your face. If you can train yourself to sleep on your back, even your organs, even your insides. Appreciate it.

Jade (86:58)

Sister, you're talking to two. Two asses, okay? You got two asses for ho ghost here. And sleeping on back is so difficult for us in our.

Jasmine Imani (87:15)

There's pillows. So many different kind of pillows. You're right there.

Kia (87:20)

I hear you right.

Jade (87:21)

You're not wrong. You're right. I gotta find the right pillows for under these knees. I gotta find the right combination of things so I can start. Because you're not wrong. I sleep on my side. Sides.

Jasmine Imani (87:32)

Yeah. Yeah.

Jade (87:32)

So I don't know what that does, but sleeping on your back is very good. I'm so glad I don't have the big titties that will, you know. I'm so sorry for my girls. Who do.

Kia (87:41)

I know, I know. Wow.

Jade (87:43)

Okay, hydration. Do you have a serum that you recommend? Do you have a serum actually? Do you.

Jasmine Imani (87:50)

No.

Jade (87:50)

Do you have a line? Okay, all right. Okay.

Kia (87:53)

But do you have one you recommend right now?

Jasmine Imani (87:56)

I love the Barbaletta. Barbaletta Lash serum is what I sell here at the studio. And I've grown out many of my clients lashes with that. So the goal is you want your lashes to grow out to the point where you don't feel like you need extensions. There's nothing wrong with extensions if they're being done right. Like extensions should be for special occasion, for vacation or. Many of my clients, when we even get to that point, they don't even want extensions because their own lashes are, like booming and they don't feel like they need anything else. I have nothing against falsies, lash extensions. I'm always like, do what feels good as long as it's not harming you and the health of your lashes. So when you find any kind of lash artist, brow artist, is there a level of care to it? I tell everybody that with anything you do on your body, your skin, your hair person, your nail person, if they're not giving you after Care before care or telling you about the health, about the things on your body you need to reconsider? Why are they touching your body? What has been the growth that's happened with that person since you've been seeing them?

Jade (89:12)

The way you speak about lashes and what you're doing now is really a testament to you pivoting in a direction that was really for you and I. I really appreciate you coming and sharing with us, like, all of the different ways that you've been so intentional in those pivots. I think they'll be so helpful because like Kia said earlier, there's so many of us with so many different interests.

Jasmine Imani (89:37)

Yeah.

Jade (89:37)

And there's nothing wrong with having so many different ones. But I think we get overwhelmed. Like, we get overwhelmed in the, in the processes of how to move, moving, how to figure out if this is even for us. Is this the hobby? Is this going to be the thing? So we're so grateful that you came and shared time about how you think about things. I think it's going to be helpful to so many entrepreneurs out there. Before we close out what's next for Jazzy Money, since. Since we have. You have had a whole trajectory, what's next? Do you have anything on the horizon? Is that. Do you feel like you're really settled now in this space? Like, what's next for you?

Jasmine Imani (90:15)

So I myself have 101 passions as well right now. I really am. I'm back and sitting still. I'm running this business and I'm going to take on a few clients for consulting. Consulting, something just that brings me joy. If it's a woman, especially a woman of color, I love helping them get that clarity they need. So I think for now I'm going to take on a few clients and I am truly sitting around and list listening for my next move. Whether it's the evolution of this business or if this business evolves into the next thing. And of course, I'm also building new crits right now as well. So I'm someone who likes to put my hands in many pots in order for me to like, stay in my flow. If it's bringing me joy, I know it's taking me to the next thing. So I like other people to get in that rhythm as well as much as they can and start enjoying that fear or that feeling of getting uncomfortable. Like, I truly enjoy getting uncomfortable with certain areas of my life.

Jade (91:24)

I think that's so timely right now too, as funding is being lost in so many areas and, you know, people are not they're not making as much monetarily off of those things. It really gives us an opportunity to. To go back to the basics and figure out, like you said, how much joy are we pulling from this thing? Is it my time to really focus on the actual art of what I'm doing or whatever that thing is? And so thank you so much. Jazz. We're gonna make sure that we put your links in the description box so everybody can access your. Your business expertise. But also, if you are local to the New York City area, I can attest to Jaz is the best person who has ever laid hands on my face, so especially my eyeballs. So you all, you know, get with the winning team and book yourself an appointment, especially before they fill up. Keita, did you have anything you want to close out with?

Kia (92:20)

Yeah, I just wanted to echo my thanks for you being here. I think it's such a timely conversation. It's just awesome to sit with the, you know, successful woman and learn of your journey. Thank you for sharing all your insights and experiences and expertise with the kitchen table. You're welcome back anytime, anytime. And we just really appreciate you for being a part of our community. So thank you for being here.

Jade (92:46)

Absolutely.

Jasmine Imani (92:46)

Can I say I appreciate you both. And I also want to say to your community, I think we're in the era of creators, and people often think that's just influencers, but as women, as men, as people of color, we need to understand we're all creators, so creating is anything you are putting your energy to. And I do believe we are moving into the era of the creator. A lot of us will have our own domain on what we do and how we do it. So tune in as much as you can and just, like, get very curious. I know it's a very scary, great time. I have a lot of friends who are trying to figure out what's next or have been laid off. But I personally am very excited for all of you. I truly, truly am.

Jade (93:34)

And what's going to come of that. I think that's the perfect way to close this. I'm not. I offer nothing else because I think. I don't think we need to close out with anything else. Make sure you all check out all of what Jazzy Money is doing in the description box. We have links to article. Y' all need to check out her cut article with all of the different beauty tips and things that she uses. And, Jasmine, we're so grateful for you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We'll see you all for the next segment.

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Jasmine Imani (94:14)

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Jade (94:15)

Hey.

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Jasmine Imani (94:32)

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Kia (94:45)

It's time for. I know that's right.

Jasmine Imani (94:47)

I know that's right.

Jade (94:50)

Yes.

Kia (94:50)

We're doing a collective. I Know that's right. This week, we're doing a collective because it is a big day. Big deal, a big burn.

Jade (95:03)

Sorry.

Kia (95:04)

We are excited. Ladies and gentlemen, Sadie, all family, all friends, all people. We are celebrating our dearest sister, Crystal Jean, because it is time. Crystal's couch is available for all of our listening pleasure everywhere. You get your podcast and we, for one, are super excited. You're very proud of our sister and, and just excited for this new journey, this new sort of, this new iteration, this new chapter of what you know, of creativity and just community and collective impact that our sister is leading. And we just can't be any more proud of you than we are. Krystal G. This is gonna be so major.

Jade (95:52)

Absolutely.

Kia (95:53)

We're so grateful for you. We're so proud of all the work that you have done, and we're so excited about all the ways that God is gonna move. It's gonna be big. Absolutely proud of you.

Jade (96:03)

We love you.

Jasmine Imani (96:03)

You.

Kia (96:04)

Y' all listen to, y' all listen.

Jade (96:06)

To Crystal's couch calling all couch potatoes, shout out to Dustin. That was an incredible period group name. Yeah. Yeah, you guys are gonna get a lot. I'm a couch potato and I'm a couch.

Kia (96:18)

Yeah.

Jade (96:19)

We're so proud of you. You've. You've. You've really been very. Which is so on theme with this con, with this episode in general, right from our kitchen table to everything. You've been very transparent about your journey the entire time you've been taking it. And it's lovely to see how these things come to metastasize. You know what I'm saying? Watch them. Watch them grow and become what they are. And to watch somebody's journey and then to see the growth is something extra special. And so we send so much love. We know big nerves come along with launching, launching new things, especially when it's something that you care about very deeply about. So we're just really excited to. To See you really stepping into your space and all that that's going to come from that. So we wanted to give a big, giant shout out, and I know that's right. To our sister.

Kia (97:11)

Yeah.

Jade (97:11)

Yes. Crystal's couch is on your airwaves now. Make sure you go check it out. Like, subscribe, comment, all that, all of those things. And do the same for getting grown.

Kia (97:22)

All of those.

Jade (97:23)

Sorry. Just have to, you know.

Kia (97:24)

That's right.

Jade (97:24)

You know, across the board. We must.

Kia (97:27)

So natural.

Jade (97:28)

But yeah.

Kia (97:29)

And run our sister's numbers. Super excited. Yeah, run them up. Y' all know what to do. I'm proud of Chrystal. The both end of it all. It is the season, you know, just like. Like we were just talking about the kitchen table. Not even just pivoting, but expanding. Right. You know, you, You're. We're allowed to have multiple passions, multiple interests, multiple projects. This is the year of growth and getting bigger. And I'm excited, I'm inspired. I can't wait for all the things that Jade is working on and I'm working on, like, it's, it's, it's. It's going up. We're going and we're go.

Jade (98:02)

We are spending up and out. Okay. Period fat on you hoes. All right, so with that fat. I love it. It's a great word. It's a real word. Okay. And it's a positive word. With that being said, let's get negative head to the petty peeps.

Kia (98:21)

Let's do it, do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Jasmine Imani (98:24)

Country. Petty, petty, petty.

Kia (98:25)

All the same to me playing James Spaghetti.

Jade (98:27)

It's time for the petty peeves. And I am ready this week. And, you know, I may be. I may be, you know, approaching my AARP era or it. It shows you the way that things go quickly in society and. And, you know, sometimes we just realize that we are somewhere else. So I go, you know, I told you all last week that I'm doing all the appointments and getting all the things taken care of for myself and the family. So we all went for our, you know, optometry appointments, and we have to take Noah to a specialist. So, you know, the. The. They give me. The optometrist gives me a specialist. I call to schedule an appointment. The phone rings and rings, and then a. A voicemail picks up, but it is first the disclaimer that this is a Google voice number.

Kia (99:30)

Oh.

Jade (99:30)

So I was like, well, what the. Is this a real. But then the voicemail comes in. And no, this is the, this is the, this is the office that should.

Kia (99:38)

Not, that should not annoy.

Jade (99:39)

Oh wait.

Kia (99:40)

But it does.

Jade (99:40)

Oh, it gets worse, sister. Oh my God. So then I go on the website. You have to schedule a 10 minute phone consultation. I just wanted to ask some general insurance questions before I scheduled the appointment. You have to go online to schedule a phone call and you have to put in a credit card because it is a free 10 minute consultation but you have to put in a credit card in the event that you missed a phone call or whatever the case is. Missed appointment. Right. So 25 fee if you miss it, which I understand people's time. But why do I have to get online to schedule a phone call to ask if you all accept this insurance? And what we look at, what are we looking at copay wise? Like why are we. Why irritated And I felt, I felt, I felt away in that moment. I felt like I, I was like I'm feeling behind. Is this a normal thing? I feel like this is where we are moving in society and I don't appreciate it. I don't like it. We already saw as we've started calling these companies and they've got scripts and AI reps and things like that, you all are a taking jobs away from human beings, which oftentimes I'm not blaming this office, right. This office may be taking all the budget cuts that they need to take to make sure that they can keep running. But I hate that this is where society has gone, where it is removing people, it is taking jobs away and it is taking away a real person to person connection without all of this rigamarole in between. So needless to say, it took me, you know, a couple of hours to schedule that because I was protesting about the credit card. But then I said, well this is your child's eye Jade. Like get off your Iowa. But I just, I had to note that it worked.

Kia (101:34)

Yes, it's the principle, but we need this. Yes, yes, yes, it's the principle.

Jade (101:40)

But also we have got to do like what I hate this is where we are. But that's my petty pee. What's your petty peeve to sweet?

Kia (101:47)

I think similarly I too would just sort of echo that it should not take. Take as much to speak to a human being as y' all know. As I said, this is the sort of we're in the thick of the travel sprint q4 work travel before the holidays is in full spring, full swing. And you know, I, I'll be zipping back and forth across the country now that we are in this government shut down and all the major airlines are literally decreasing the number of flights by 10%. It's a matter of safety.

Jasmine Imani (102:25)

Yes.

Kia (102:26)

And so I understand we're trying to be patient, trying as best we can to be patient, but it is challenging when you're trying to rebook and deal with other, you know, this is rebooking issues on top of the regular day to day customer service, customer interfacing needs of these major airlines and major sort of, you know, corporations and also customer service entities. It is so challenging. You have to go through so much to speak to a person. And I mean, what you're yelling representative in the phone or typing it in the app, you just want to talk to a human being.

Jade (103:05)

Yes.

Kia (103:06)

And all of the chat bots are really not as helpful as everyone thinks. And I know for some things, like for some very straightforward things, you know, you want to check the status of something, it can give you a report out, okay, cool, fine. But when you are negotiating like rebooking a flight or doing something, you need to speak to someone who is an actual living being, like a living breathing person. I don't care how efficiently you think you have trained the chatbot. The chatbot is not going to know how to navigate these extenuating circumstances for God.

Jade (103:41)

And this is where I'm irritated with the airlines themselves, right? Because I understand the government shut down the government employees. This is out of, this is out of their control. But the airlines, you all have money. You all have money upon money upon my especially because now you all have gotten into this day and age of overselling seats and like that, that when we are already you now. And they're also reporting, sister, that they have been understaffed for much longer than this shutdown has been happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

Kia (104:14)

I mean this, what you're saying is this is brought to me, what I am, lord, is sort of taking away from all of this, is sort of recognizing the larger breakdown and some of the fundamental limitations of some of our systems that have been running, you know, underneath, you know, underneath the airline transportation and the Department of Transportation from the government are some antiquated, outdated, ineffective systems that no longer meet the current needs of our society. And I think, you know, as someone who thinks very intentionally about sort of broad scale systemic reform, there's lots of things that I pay attention to that probably the average person does not. But I think underneath all that, yes, airlines have money, they're definitely generating revenue, but for so long they have relied on government subsidies or the government paying for things that the government is not paying for that they're not positioned to sort of reallocate those, those funds in real time. And so I think we're dealing with this in the number, the, the implications of this. Yeah, it's a trickle down are far reaching domino effect in a lot of different ways. And unfortunately it is impacting our day to day lives and it's only going to get stickier from here. Jay was just talking about to me about my plans for Thanksgiving. I'm still trying to figure that out because you know what, what does it make sense to do? I don't know. I'm still work, working that out with my family. I don't know if I even want to get into the Russian roulette of trying to get on the airplane during this holiday time.

Jade (105:47)

No, I understand.

Kia (105:48)

I mean it's just, and that's not, you know, y' all know I would give anything to spend the time with my family. But I mean, is it worth it? If I'm not going to spend most of that time with my family, I'm going to spend most of that time in the airport with. Right. So we got to figure that out and work through that. But no, I think that's really what it is. My millennial angst is very much right now grounded in the fact that I want to engage with human beings as it relates to my customer service.

Jade (106:16)

I really.

Kia (106:17)

I don't care about your chat bots. I don't care about your AI. I do not. I do not care. I do not.

Jade (106:23)

I don't.

Kia (106:24)

I don't care.

Jade (106:24)

My mother used to be. I don't care. She used to be a representative for airline, a customer service rep. She had to take her ass into a call center and sit down like a hundred other people and answer people's questions. And I really want that again. Oh, you know what that also does? Provides jobs.

Kia (106:42)

Yeah, yeah. And the efficiency. I just feel like, like I don't, I feel like. And this is something that I'm sort of working through in all a couple different areas in my life. I feel like leadership and the higher ups and the people. Absolutely. Who are distanced from that on the ground customer interface aspects of their work, I feel like they are totally missing. Absolutely that. The, the reality. I think, you know, people think about things and think about efficiencies, but I feel like if we pay attention, the data is showing that it's not more efficient. It's not.

Jade (107:17)

Well, the problem is that like you said, they're detached and removed from even the processes that it takes to get to these different steps. Right. So they make decisions when they don't even have the same circumstances or experiences that we have to face. You're making large decisions for people that you don't live like. And that is how. Is clearly what's happening across the board. You know what I mean?

Kia (107:41)

That's. That's literally what's happening across the board. And a lot of these decisions are being made by sales reps and people who don't have the lived actual experience about what it's like to negotiate these services or if they do this in a very superficial way. And so that, that's even outside of any analysis of sort of privilege and power and what that means for black and brown folks. But that's another conversation for another.

Jade (108:05)

I know we have to. That might have to be a whole kitchen table because what the fuck? Anyway. Holy God. Thank you all so much.

Kia (108:13)

So. Yes, yes, absolutely. Here's. We appreciate you all for listening. Thank you for indulging our millennial angst and petty P for this week. Thanks again to Jasmine Imani for joining us at the kitchen table for an awesome conversation. And big, big shout out to y' all for keeping it locked every. We here every week on Getting Grown. We don't take it for granted. I've been actually, I got a real cool message from. I'm gonna, I'm gonna feature her in our Favorite Things episode, which is coming up soon. Black Owned Business. A young lady, her name is Jasmine. She has a jewelry company. And, you know, she, we were engaging a little bit in the DMs and she was like, you know, I used to listen to Getting Grown back in the day. I really love y'. All. And I was like, wow. People like, I still, you know, that don't get old.

Jade (108:59)

Not at all.

Kia (109:00)

You know, encountering, encountering people who I think are dope that having interacted with us and around the kitchen table at any point, that's something that's very, like, I'm very appreciative of.

Jade (109:12)

Yes.

Kia (109:12)

And we really, really wanted to just shout out, shout, shout y' all out for. And so listen, lock back in with us. This is another way that we are, you know, community is not something that's going out of style. I think now more than ever we need to have these kind of conversations and create these, these spaces. And Jade and I are working with our team, we're working really hard around expanding all the ways that we can Engage. With y' all moving into next year, we're excited. Like you said, we getting fat. We getting big. Hello.

Jade (109:40)

And again, in the.

Kia (109:41)

We're expensive.

Jade (109:42)

This is a good thing in the best. Okay. You know, it's more to love. So make sure you all lock. Yes. Lock back in with getting grown. Check out the Patreon. That's the best.

Kia (109:53)

Check out on YouTube.

Jade (109:54)

Check us out on YouTube. Tik Tok. Okay. You don't stop.

Jasmine Imani (109:58)

Make sure you.

Jade (110:00)

Okay. Your aunties is on the clock app. So make sure you check us out there. Continue to like, rate and subscribe. We're so grateful for you all. We're so grateful for this community. We got to keep it going, sis. Take them out. Give them the mantra. Tell them what to do.

Kia (110:14)

Absolutely. Make sure that y'.

Jasmine Imani (110:15)

All.

Kia (110:16)

Moisturizing your mind, keeping your thoughts well maintained by minding your business. Focus on yourself. Jasmine said your creativity is connected.

Jade (110:25)

Okay.

Kia (110:26)

Curiosity and also your capacity to listen. Spend time with your stillness. With yourself.

Jade (110:30)

Yes.

Kia (110:31)

Don't. Don't you know that you know, eliminate.

Jade (110:34)

The noise around how you found out?

Kia (110:37)

Period.

Jade (110:37)

You know what I'm saying?

Kia (110:38)

That's it. Period. And so make sure that you're doing it. Make sure that you're doing that every day. Make sure that you're also investing the health of your body by drinking as much water as your body can sustain every single day.

Jade (110:50)

Get your Mormon cups. Mine.

Kia (110:53)

That's it. And finally, you want to moisturize your.

Jade (110:57)

Skin and your lashes and your lashes.

Kia (111:01)

Because your black will crack and your lashes will fall right out your head.

Jade (111:05)

If they are broken like your permed edges. That's not speaking for my high horse. I've been there. You all take care of.

Kia (111:14)

Hold on.

Jade (111:15)

Holding on. Bye, you all. Love y'. All.

Jasmine Imani (111:33)

Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because MultiCare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier.

Jade (111:45)

That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering.

Jasmine Imani (111:49)

With local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@mycare.org.