Untempered Messaging (Feat: Jenan Matari)

Summary

Gettin' Grown – "Untempered Messaging" (Feat: Jenan Matari)

Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Jade & Kia
Guest: Jenan Matari

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Episode Overview

This episode of Gettin' Grown features an insightful and moving conversation with Palestinian-American writer, media strategist, and children's author Jenan Matari. Jade and Kia ("two happy and hard working Black women trying to figure out life as 30-somethings") welcome Jenan to the Kitchen Table to discuss self-care, intergenerational traditions, the role of storytelling in liberation, the power of narrative, and the intersections between Black and Palestinian struggles. The episode resonates with warmth, cultural commentary, and a fierce commitment to solidarity.

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Main Segments & Key Insights

1. Kitchen Table Talk: Holiday Reflections & Resisting the Rush

Timestamps: 08:58–25:49

• Jade & Kia share their Thanksgiving experiences, emphasizing the calm, restorative nature of this year's holiday, and reflect on family, tradition, and reconnecting with their grandmothers through food.
• Cultural Rituals and Cooking: They discuss the significance of "not rushing"—allowing time, attention, and intention in both cooking and life, contrasting modern speed (AI, automation) with the value of slow, deliberate care.
  • “Faster is not always better... you can cook a roast in the microwave if you want. It’ll be cooked, but it won’t be good.” – Kia (14:13)
• Regional differences in Black culture: A lighthearted but real debate about mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving sparks commentary on respect for all regional Black identities.
• Music Commentary: The hosts reminisce about generations rediscovering the “Thong Song,” the legacy of Drew Hill and Sisqo, and how social media revives classic R&B for new audiences.

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2. Introducing Jenan Matari

Timestamps: 28:12–29:18

• Bio: Kia introduces Jenan as an award-winning Palestinian-American writer and media strategist, an advocate for Palestinian liberation, and author of the children’s book Everything Grows in Jido’s Garden.
• Praise for Storytelling: The hosts highlight Jenan's role in preserving and amplifying marginalized narratives, particularly for younger generations.

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3. Jenan Matari: Storytelling as Resistance, Unpacking "Untempered Messaging"

Timestamps: 29:18–88:40

Jenan’s Journey & The Power of Untempered Messaging

• Background: Jenan reflects on moving from confronting Islamophobia to focusing on Palestinian storytelling, tracing her own voice from “fluff” (culture, fashion, beauty) to direct, critical messaging.
• Workplace Censorship: Shares her experience of being tokenized for diversity until speaking on Palestine, when her employers asked her to "temper her messaging."
  • “They don’t even think about the language... Would you temper a bowl of soup you serve to someone? You want to serve somebody lukewarm soup?” – Jade (34:49)
• Liberation Through Not Losing Recipes: The importance of cultural preservation—recipes, stories, and traditions—especially amid attempts to erase or water down narratives.
  • “We talk so often here at Kitchen Table about not losing recipes and the power in narrative.” – Kia (25:20)

The Cost and Empowerment of Speaking Out

• Fear & Growth: Jenan describes the fear of being maligned (“terrorist,” “anti-Semitic”), learning to trust ancestral knowledge and lived experience over external validation.
  • “The more you lean into ancestral knowledge... the less likely you are to fall into this trap of silencing yourself.” – Jenan (37:22)
• Propaganda & Conditioning: Explains how Western media and society persistently invalidate Arab, Muslim, and especially Palestinian voices, likening tactics used on indigenous and Black peoples.

Intersections: Black and Palestinian Solidarity

• Shared Tactics of Oppression: The surveillance and home-seizing tactics used in Palestine are mirrored in Black communities (e.g., legal property theft, police tactics, AI surveillance).
• Amplification and Learning: Jenan credits Black women and the Black community for lessons on owning one’s narrative and the necessity for intersectional activism.

Storytelling for Children: Everything Grows in Jido’s Garden

• Genesis of the Book: Inspired by her grandfather's war-time gardening and her grandmother’s survival story. The process of recording family history becomes a powerful children's book that connects diasporic youth to their roots and resilience.
  • “You know, what it takes to cultivate a garden under these conditions... I hear genius, I hear skill.” – Kia (54:12)
• Child-Focused Narrative: Jenan is committed to making complex, heavy histories accessible for children through rhythm, rhyme, and simple storytelling, resisting anti-intellectual gatekeeping about what children can or cannot handle.
  • “Sometimes I read it and I think, this is so simple, I don’t get the hype.” – Jenan (60:09)
  • “It’s a skill to explain complex things in simple ways—that is brilliance.” – Kia (61:11)

Diaspora, Land, and Identity

• Homecoming: Jenan recounts a brief but transformative return to Palestine just months before the events of October 2023. That trip provided grounding, reconnection, and clarified what she’s fighting for.
  • “It was like a sense of calm... this voice just being like, reminder: this is home.” – Jenan (66:33)
• Third Culture Kids: Explores the layered identity of growing up with the traditions of a lost homeland while navigating American society, and what these blended identities mean for future generations.

Call to Action & Intersectionality

• Concrete Steps: Encourages listeners—especially Palestinians in diaspora—to “flip” one person to being unconditionally pro-Palestinian and to recognize how personal connections can create exponential impact.
  • “If you get one person... and then they teach one person, and they teach one person.” – Jenan (83:35)
• Solidarity Must Be Mutual: Emphasizes the importance of showing up for other marginalized groups, especially Black communities, and recognizing the queer and trans communities at the forefront of activism.

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4. Listener Community Shout-Outs & Giving Back

Timestamps: 92:14–104:21

• Favorite Things: Shout-outs to Dr. Wendy’s new body-care line (EBG15 for 15% off), and Black Girl Hug’s Black-owned conversational card game (code GG for free shipping).
• Giving Back Initiatives: Vanessa, a listener, highlights food insecurity at Roxbury Community College, asking for donations to support their food pantry (see show notes for donation link). Jade also highlights opportunities to support children in Brooklyn shelters.
  • “Even if it’s $5, even if it’s $1... every dollar donated has direct impact.” – Jade (103:51)

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5. Self Care & Joy

Timestamps: 105:15–127:13

• Intentional Unplugging: Kia shares her self-care practice of unplugging from news and social media to binge old sitcoms—re-watching "Who’s the Boss" and reflecting on the progressive narratives and self-care found in nostalgia.
• Black Girl Joy & The Boy Is Mine Tour: Both hosts gush about the powerful, affirming experience attending the Brandy, Monica, and Kelly Rowland "The Boy Is Mine" tour—a celebration of Black womanhood, artistry, and resilience.
  • “That concert was a master class in aging gracefully.” – Kia (115:09)
• Gratitude for Blackness: The segment ends with loving affirmation of Black identity and the joys of community.

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6. Petty Peeves

Timestamps: 135:51–143:45

• Pet Peeves with Love:
  • Jade: Annoys at people not covering their mouths when yawning & Costco’s declining muffin quality.
  • Kia: Dislikes the eye doctor and the pressure to spend Flex Spending Account funds by year-end.
• Playful Banter: The hosts close with their trademark humorous complaints, cultural observations, and a quick-riff connecting ancient T. Rex slander to the modern importance of controlling narrative.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The more you lean into the belief of ancestral knowledge... the less likely you are to silence yourself.” – Jenan Matari (37:22)
• “Storytelling is one of the major tools of resistance.” – Kia (46:13)
• “Get one person in your real life to flip and be 100% pro-Palestine…Each one, teach one.” – Jenan (83:03)
• “There’s a lot more we have in common than we don’t. The propaganda is strong to keep the division at bay.” – Jade (81:31)
• “Sometimes it’s because you’re right where you need to be, for those moments.” – Jade (72:09)
• “Brandy is your favorite singer’s favorite singer.” – Kia (122:18)

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Recurring Themes & Tone

• Warmth & Community: The Kitchen Table is both grounding and evocative, blending humor, music, and sharp cultural analysis.
• Radical Honesty: The hosts and guest are frank, unfiltered, and resist the whitewashing or tempering of their stories.
• Intergenerational Wisdom: There is a consistent emphasis on learning from elders, maintaining traditions, and passing down recipes—literal and metaphorical.
• Solidarity & Intersectionality: The conversation repeatedly returns to the necessity of intersectional organizing and community care.

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Timestamps Quick Guide

• 08:58 – Holidays, family, cooking, slow living
• 24:23 – Guest introduction: Jenan Matari
• 29:18 – Jenan’s journey & professional background
• 35:33 – Standing in one’s voice & identity
• 43:32 – Shared surveillance & oppression tactics
• 53:56 – Children’s book genesis; storytelling for youth
• 66:33 – Returning home to Palestine
• 75:09 – Third culture kids/identity
• 83:00 – Calls for action & mutual solidarity
• 92:14 – Shout-outs (Dr. Wendy, Black Girl Hug, charity)
• 105:15 – Self-care: unplugging, cultural joy
• 115:00 – The Boy Is Mine concert & Black girl pride
• 135:51 – Petty peeves (Costco, FSA, T. Rex jokes)
• 143:45 – Closing gratitude & reminders for self & community care

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Final Takeaways

"Untempered Messaging" is a rich, heartfelt episode that refuses to dilute difficult truths or joyful celebration. It gently but unflinchingly underscores the power of narrative—in the kitchen, on the stage, and in global liberation struggles. Through storytelling, resistance, and shared care, Gettin' Grown champions both the beauty and the urgency of interwoven Black and Palestinian experiences.

To support the topics discussed:

• Check out Jenan’s book, Everything Grows in Jido’s Garden
• Engage in mutual aid for college students experiencing food insecurity (see Roxbury Community College Pantry link)
• Support Dr. Wendy’s body-care line and Black Girl Hug card game
• Learn and donate in solidarity with Palestine, Sudan, and other marginalized communities (links in show notes)

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Listen, learn, and—always—take care of yourself and each other.

Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Jade]

Limu Emu and Doug Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Host 1]

Cut the camera.

[Jade]

They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by.

[Kia]

Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates.

[Jade]

Excludes Massachusetts.

I look in your eyes and I can see.

With love so dangerously.

You'Re not trusting your heart to anyone. Come on, you tell me you're gonna play it smart yeah, we're through before we start.

But I believe that we've only just begun.

[Kia]

Come on.

[Jade]

When it's this good and there's no say no.

I want you so I'm ready to go.

Take it away, sis.

[Kia]

Through the fire to the limit to.

[Jade]

The world.

[Kia]

For a chance to be with you I'd rather risk it all.

[Jade]

To the fire, the water.

Even through the fire.

And then she beginning in the background.

[Janan Matari]

She be like.

[Jade]

Wait, I didn't have my titties in my chin. Now let me restart.

[Kia]

The girls be like, hello, good morning.

[Jade]

Oh, a warm hug.

[Kia]

That right there.

[Jade]

Shaka. She is, boy. She is.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah. Hello.

[Jade]

God's gift. Truly.

[Kia]

Yeah. I mean, that is so classic. Listen, no matter where you are.

Trusting your heart to anyone, like, no, tell.

[Jade]

Me your play it smart. I just love it. I just love it.

Oh, I love it so much. Let me tell you, all of the good music, like the kids, they're. They're renewing everything Noah loves Shaka. And let me tell you, I had to tell xt. Let me tell you what your girl discovered. It has been right. Screaming at the top of wearing it out.

[Kia]

I love it.

[Jade]

Thong song.

[Kia]

You know, all of the children.

[Jade]

Is it something?

[Kia]

I think so.

[Jade]

Okay.

[Kia]

Because I think so. I think there was like a trend or something where someone had remade it or the people were like singing their own versions or arrangements of it. And I mean, there has been a resurgence of the song.

[Jade]

Well, I had to put her on to the greatness that is Drew Hill and Cisco, listen. Because I said, listen. You know what? It had to be tick tock because it was Thanksgiving and Mary and I had to let Noah know she hadn't even gotten to the greatest part of the song.

She hadn't even gotten to the best part. And when we let the song play all the way through and she got to the build up in the.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

She had to. She was like. Oh. And I was like, exactly. Like, let me introduce. I was like, I know what we're listening to when you. And it's time to go back to school. Drew Hill. And so we have. We've been revisiting all the Drew Hill albums.

[Kia]

Oh. First of all, they are very, very much underrated as a group. Tania and I, for a long time. Every time Drew Hill has been in the dmv, me and Tania will get a ticket and we will go because you're going to get some premiere singing sister from the men of Dr. Hill every day.

[Jade]

Jazz.

Nokio and. Oh, hold on, wait, hold on.

[Kia]

They're going to sing.

[Jade]

Wait. Cisco. Nokio. Jazz and Woody. Thank you, Woody. Woody. With an alternating member.

[Kia]

Yeah, there's one or two alternating ones either way.

[Jade]

But those are the original thing. Yeah.

[Kia]

Hello.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And the catalog, you could. There are just some staples and classics within that catalog. I mean, it's a body of work. Right. And most. What?

[Jade]

Oh, I know he's lying.

[Kia]

Oh, my God. So good.

[Jade]

It might seem like I'm hating. Okay. Walk through that door Step 2.

[Kia]

Tell him the way that he builds the song. I mean, there's so many songs that have. Have that build up, you know what I'm saying? And I think that's very classic. That's core. Drew Hill, even score. Cisco.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

One of the things. One of the songs. Cisco. Songs that I don't feel like ever got enough. It's. People never gave it enough.

[Jade]

Incomplete then without you girl, my life is stung.

[Kia]

You can't tell me wasn't balled up in his shoes when he. He st. I mean, the whole thing. He stung with his whole chest.

[Jade]

I just can't stop.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

But I love you much too late. I give anything.

Everything you say that you.

Yes. Oh, God.

[Kia]

I don't want to be a lonely.

[Jade]

Fool I don't want to. You are right. Incomplete does not get enough.

[Kia]

Incomplete I like. I mean, he sung from the top. I mean, at the end without you.

[Jade]

Girl.

My life isn't good.

You know what he did? He balled the feet up and he stretched them out and got on the toes, too, because you can hear it when he. You can hear that. I know we do this every so often, you all. But I just. We feel like Cisco don't get enough.

[Kia]

He doesn't. And that doesn't. I mean, that's just the bottom line. Yeah, yeah, the bottom line. And if y' all might not agree, you don't have to, but I feel like the fact that young people are returning to the glory that is the Thong Song and celebrating it, it's just. It's just proof positive that no matter what, you know who else I think is responsible? Cynthia Erivo did an interview where she was sort of unpacking on the street.

[Jade]

I love those interviews. Yes.

[Kia]

You see what I'm saying? Yes. I think that she was sort of unpacking. She was like, listen to how he's singing about a song. Who sings about a song?

[Jade]

And the kids were like, well, whatever Elphaba says, we're gonna listen.

[Kia]

Exactly, exactly.

[Jade]

You know, good, because that's.

[Kia]

That's what I'm saying. Everybody's down to the Shiz University, and they say if Elphaba likes the Thong Song, so do we.

[Jade]

But. But, young people, if you may listen to Auntie Jade for just two seconds, all I'm gonna ask you to do is as these songs resurface via social media and whatever else, I need you all to go and listen to the complete song so you can get the full magic of what that really is. That's all I'm saying. So, sister, how was your holiday?

[Kia]

You know, I'm grateful it was still and. And quiet in all the ways that I needed it to be. I had come down with a bit of a code, I think. Just, you know, it was like six or seven consecutive weeks of work, travel, and it felt like my body knew when it was home, and it was just like, yeah, girl, thank through a lot.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And so I had to go work through that and, you know, just sort of still negotiated a lot of change in the family and just needed, you know, especially ahead of Christmas, which tends to be the holiday in my family where people gather. I feel like just leading up to that time where I feel like I'm gonna have to be on and. And negotiating those family dynamics in real time out, appreciative to be in my own home, grateful for space and stillness, and it felt good to cook in my own kitchen and prepare things you know, really, you know, as we always. Every time I cook, particularly around the holidays, it always reconnects me to my grandma and just time spending with her. So it just felt like I was sort of, you know, replenishing myself and ways that I needed to. So it was. I'm. I was grateful for a. Still. Yeah. And slow Thanksgiving. And, you know, how we feel about Thanksgiving. That's sort of that conventional holiday. Thank. You know, we're always. Right.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

We're always grateful. And I'm just sort of especially thinking about all the ways that, you know, who we are in this country.

How. How we have been resilient and resisted and leaning in and taking care of one another. And so I just really was conscious focus on that and grateful for that and grateful that that is a part of who I am. Very naturally.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

It was just celebrated reflecting on that all day. So it was a good. It was a good. An enjoyable time of just sort of reflection and. And taking care of myself, which I. I really very much needed. So I was grateful for it. How about you?

[Jade]

It was good. It was quiet.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

You know, normally I host a lot of people, and this year it was. I think we just had two additional people outside of family. Marion.

Fun fact again. You all can catch Issamar in the Cruising video, d' Angelo's video. She is all right, lady.

But Issamar. Mary came over and we just had. You know, it's just us as a family. You know, I cook everything. I'm gonna cook everything. What did I say?

[Kia]

Every time it's church, whether it's 1, 2, or 15.

[Jade]

Right, exactly. So. So I apply that also to. To. To the November break because, you know, it's. It's all of the foods that I love. And like you said, these are foods that are cultural to us, you know?

[Kia]

Yeah. We grew up.

[Jade]

We grew up like this. I grew up eating dressing a very particular way. I grew up with my greens, you know, a proper way. And this is also the only time of year where we have all of those side dishes and meats and desserts that we want all at once. So it's just.

[Kia]

That's my.

[Jade]

That's why I love.

Was really refreshing because Noah was like, mama, what you making this year? And I said, what. What do I look at the board on the. On the fridge? So. Because I have to write everything out.

[Kia]

So I can see.

[Jade]

And she was like, all the usuals. And I was like, is that okay? Like, do you want something else? And she was like, no, no, no, no. No, I'm. I love when you make the. The regular, and I love that the foods we grow, this is. These are the food she's growing up on. This is the regular for her. You know what I'm saying? She's like, okay, copy, same menu. Because I'm not switching it up, you know, unless maybe we may alternate a meat, but outside of that, I'm not switching it up. Best turkey I ever made, hands down.

[Kia]

I love that. Ever, hands down, I love that. I feel like we're getting better. I told you. I think my grease in my dressing again.

Best greens I've ever made.

[Jade]

Those greens were my life. Yeah, the greens were greening.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

I mean, greens were greening because I let that. I let that stock really go.

[Kia]

Yes.

[Jade]

So.

[Kia]

And I think I took my time and I feel I was telling. Since as we were preparing to record, there was something to it. And this is sort of like, I don't know, maybe because I'm feeling like at work and just sort of like, I think at work I've been resisting. Right. I feel like, especially in sort of where we are headed as. As a field, there's this pressure to sort of prove impact, improve outcomes. Everybody wants, you know, data quickly. We want to be able to measure stuff really quickly. And I'm just like, yeah, faster is not always better. No. Right. And I don't know, I just feel like there's this rush, especially in this wave of AI and automation. Everybody wants to do everything so quickly. And at wristle sounded like my grandma. I just feel like. I feel like you can cook a roast in the microwave if you want to. You could. It'll be cooked, but it won't be good.

[Jade]

It won't be good.

[Kia]

And I just feel like we gotta get back to not rushing.

And letting the. Letting things take time. I told Sis back in the day, you remember your grandma used to cook them grease all day. And it would be like, girl, it don't take all of that. But it do sometimes. Because it was the best grease I've ever made. And I think it was because I took the time. I let that turkey. I let the stock come together for hours. And I cooked the grease low and slow.

[Jade]

Literally all day long, sister.

[Kia]

And they were so tender. And it was like. I mean, the. The turkey necks were falling off the bone.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Kia]

I didn't have to shred. I didn't have to shred nothing. I took the bones out that pot whole. Cause the meat just fell right off. It was so, so good. Like you said, I Grew up like you. You don't know how to. I don't know how to make dressing for one. So I made a big pan addressing, of course I froze half of it and then I, you know, finished, you know, worked on the other half. And it was just literally taking my time. I wasn't rushing. I did not have any set schedule or amazing or time. I just cooked at my leisure and did what felt good. And it really came out the food. It was the best. The best turkey wings I've ever made. The best dressing, best green. And I chose this. I made my sweet potatoes. I did a sule this time. Sweet potato.

[Jade]

When we bonded over the joy of a sweet potato souffle.

[Kia]

Sweet potato sule. Cuz I added a little walnut.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Candy walnut.

[Jade]

I asked, I said, could you add a nut to it? She goes, candied walnuts. And I said, yes, that's how you do it.

I rarely make the souffle, but when I have it, I want it to be proper. Do you hear me? I want those little. I want to taste those little brown sugar morsels. I want to taste the butter in it. Like, I want that little hit of a nut. You gotta have a walnut or a pecan through there. Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I might souffle next year. I might souffle instead of. Yeah, butter.

[Kia]

But it's right, you know, way too much butter. Like more butter than I probably. But it's like, girl, this is what it calls for.

[Jade]

This is a butterfly holiday. If I. And let me tell you, this is the best prep that I've had. I didn't have to go ordering a bunch of stuff at the last minute.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

But the one thing that I did have to replenish was butter twice.

[Kia]

Because you got to use butter in everything.

[Jade]

Everything, everything. You can't skip one. Nobody wants a net zero or zero cow. What?

[Kia]

Like, I don't want that zero trans fat.

[Jade]

I don't want that for the holiday. Work that off afterward, like, but like, work that out with yourself. But eat the butter for the. Eat the butter for the day or the two of leftovers. Enjoy. Butter goes into dressing, Butter goes into yams. Butter goes in the Mac and cheese. Butter goes on the turkey. Butter goes on the ham.

[Kia]

Butter does it. Can't think of something that doesn't go in mashed potato.

[Jade]

I roasted the potatoes for the mashed potatoes this year. I think the only thing I didn't put butter in was the greens. True.

[Kia]

Did you see the debate?

[Jade]

There's.

Did you see that?

[Kia]

There's a debate on the social media, right? Some. What's the young lady Tokyo?

[Jade]

The girl from New Orleans? She said, my best friend.

[Kia]

Yeah. She said, black folks don't eat mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving. Now, I did not grow up eating mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving, but I was not offended to learn that some people do. Right? But this has sparked a very vitriolic debate. Like, the girls are upset. There are some black people. Of course we eat mashed potatoes. And she was like, yeah. Cause y' all got white moms. I mean, it got real. It got. It got real.

[Jade]

Have a African American, very African American mother.

[Kia]

I think. I think what. What I took away from is, as we usually talk about on this show, right? The black diasporic experience. Black culture has. Has dynamics, right? And it's regional, Right. I think there are certain places where black people don't do things, and there are other places where black people do, and that doesn't make something less black or whatever. But it became a very heated debate. It was like the Coke versus Pepsi girls. It was going very strong.

[Jade]

That's a. That's a. Yeah.

[Kia]

You see. Yeah. Black people. That. The black people get real.

[Jade]

When we posted that. When we posted that.

[Janan Matari]

That.

[Jade]

That one post, like, excuse me, I did not grab it. I'm like.

[Kia]

I'm feeling attacked by this Pepsi conversation. I'm like, okay, all right.

[Jade]

First. Well, first and foremost, I'll tell us all Pepsi's on a boycott list. So I'll just tell you that right now. But growing up.

Me drank Pepsi, and.

[Kia]

I don't know what else I'm saying. Like, there's sub home. It's just some homes. And it's nobody's fault, man.

[Jade]

It's like if your grandma likes your own. Mashed potatoes are not a great, like, divider. You know what I mean?

[Kia]

Like, there are different ways that we can make them. Like, I have. I have had terrible mashed potatoes, but I've also had amazing mashed potatoes.

[Jade]

Hello.

[Kia]

So, like, you know.

[Jade]

Makes a fabulous mashed potato.

[Kia]

First of all, I have seen people travel miles and miles to ask Crystal for them damn mashed potatoes.

[Jade]

It's generally those worrisome boys.

[Kia]

But is typically.

[Jade]

It's do usually Drew.

[Kia]

About. Exactly.

[Jade]

Drew is the most vocal to ever come in your house.

[Janan Matari]

I will I.

[Jade]

If I told you all this. Sorry. Drew came in here a couple Thanksgivings ago talking about, you ain't got no bigger plates. I was like, get away from me immediately. And he just. He takes it. He takes it on the chest. So he Laughs and. But he knows.

[Kia]

He knows that he's ridiculous.

[Jade]

He knows he's being worried.

[Kia]

He knows he's being a ridiculous mess. He knows that you ain't got no place. I said me too. Shut up. First off, shut your mouth. Talking to me crazy. Are you out of your mind?

[Jade]

Please. I love Drew. Drew is like a. And he's from. He's from Indiana. So everybody. You know, he is from. Hold on. He's from. Where's he from? He's not from Gary. He's from. He's from Indianapolis. He.

[Janan Matari]

He.

[Jade]

No, he's not from Indianapolis. He's from. What's the other place? Oh, this is gonna bother me. Let's see. Hold on. I know I'm see it. Cities in Indiana. God awful Indiana. Fort Wayne. He's from Fort Wayne.

[Kia]

He is from Fort Wayne.

[Jade]

And make sure you support Drew. Drew is our fearless leader of Broadway Black. So we are talking good. We're talking good about our brother. But yeah, it's. You know, we have. I love that we have these memories and all these things and I love that we create our own traditions.

And I'm just. I'm with it. Like, I don't even care if make green bean casserole on Thanksgiving. Like, if that's your jam, then go.

[Kia]

I don't want that. I'm not going to judge you or your family.

[Jade]

I don't make it for the. I did make it recently though, from scratch.

[Kia]

You. You.

[Jade]

I. I have never wanted to make.

[Kia]

It or have it.

[Janan Matari]

It.

[Jade]

I just.

[Kia]

You like it.

[Jade]

I don't mind it when it's good. I. It's not something that I like, grew up with or.

[Kia]

It does not look appetizing. I've never seen one.

[Jade]

It's awful.

[Kia]

So I've never wanted.

[Jade]

It's a disgusting looking dish. Let's be very clear.

[Kia]

And I remember the commercials. I remember people like. I remember like Campbell Soup used to have a commercial where they used to. And I'd be like, that looks like a God awful, terrible mess. Why would anybody want to eat that?

[Jade]

No, none of that. Look, let me tell you, sister. I made a green bean casserole and used all homemade ingredients minus the crispy onions because I didn't have time to fry onions that night. But I did not do all. Whatever I did, I did not mayonnaise the situation. I created my own bechamel. I made my own. You know, I did. I steamed the green beans.

[Kia]

I would try yours.

[Jade]

Well, I did. I chopped up mushrooms. Exactly.

[Kia]

Yes. And every time I've Seen it. It's not been like, let me get some of that. It's like, okay, no, thank you.

[Jade]

But you know what else is an ugly dish? Dressing.

[Kia]

It is.

[Jade]

I tried to. I tried to film myself making dressing.

[Kia]

Yeah. It's not photographic.

[Jade]

It's just.

[Kia]

It's not photogenic.

It does not look good.

[Jade]

No, it's not photogenic.

[Kia]

That's what I'm saying. That's why we were begging y' all to stop doing your plate pictures. Because, girl, your Thanksgiving food does not look appetizing. While it might taste good, it's very rare, that macaroni and cheese and dressing. Let me show you good on the plate.

[Jade]

Let me show you something rare real fast. Okay. Cuz, you know, I'm horrible at documenting content. You would think I never cooked a thing a day in my life.

[Kia]

J. Like content.

[Jade]

That's exact. Wait, let me show you.

[Kia]

You're about to.

[Jade]

You're about.

[Kia]

I tried.

[Jade]

I was like, I'm gonna try for Thanksgiving. I made one video of the dressing after. Look, hold on. Two videos. Me browning the sausage and the. And the pan of dress. That. That was it. And I was like, oh, I didn't make it. So then the next day, I'm tired. I said, take a picture of your leftovers. Right? Like, so I took a picture of my leftovers still. It does nothing justice. It does nothing justice. It's ugly. Please stop. You're having the same every.

[Kia]

Yeah, we're all having the same thing.

[Jade]

The same thing. The same thing. I need post something else. Tristan. I came home with those big, beautiful greens. You know what Tristan made me do? He said, pose like Josephine Bake. And so that's what I did. I need this kind of creativity with your. With your posts. I don't want. I don't want to see any more of your.

Chuckle.

[Kia]

Okay?

[Janan Matari]

Exactly.

[Jade]

Did it get posted? No, but. But anywho, we are. We have a. An amazing guest for you all.

[Kia]

Oh, yes, we do.

[Jade]

We have an amazing guest. I'm so excited. Excited for this conversation.

[Kia]

And.

[Jade]

And our guest, Janan Matarishi, she is. Oh, she's just everything and in her conviction for home and it. It matches our conviction. And this is why our oppression experiences are important to talk about because they're so interconnected. So you all please tune in for the kitchen table talk where we have a beautiful discussion with Janan about Palestine and the resistance and us as a community and how we can come together and just beautiful storytelling.

[Kia]

You all enjoy powerful storytelling. And we. And I think that's what what one of my key takeaways is like. We talk so often here at Kitchen Table around not losing recipes and the power in narrative and telling our stories and amplifying our stories. And I think Jeanne's work does so beautifully and particularly in ways that engage younger generations. So I just loved it so much and I hope y' all enjoy, enjoy, enjoy because we had a good time at the kitchen table.

[Jade]

Yes, enjoy.

[Kia]

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[Kia]

Welcome back everyone. We are very excited. Per usual, we are joined at the Kitchen Table this week with an amazing guest I have the privilege of introducing to some and presenting to others. Jannat Matari, an award winning Palestinian American writer, media strategist and author whose work amplifies voices often silenced in mainstream narratives. As a journalist and a storyteller, Jenan weaves the global struggles of indigenous peoples into her advocacy for Palestinian liberation. Janan's work challenges colonial frameworks, uplifts marginalized communities, and advocates for equity, justice and justice across culture. Her first children's book, Everything Grows in Jidot's Garden, is a heartwarming bridge that merges the power of storytelling with the urgency of resistance. Janan lives in exile with her family on the ancestral lands of the Lenape people and I believe Everything Grows in Jido's Garden is her very first book. So we're very excited to welcome Jenan to the Kitchen table for an awesome conversation. Welcome, Jenan.

[Janan Matari]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Jade]

Oh, we're so happy to have you. We had us a little breakfast.

Pre recording, which is really nice because I think it's, it's a nice grounding period, right, to be able to share a meal and I was able to share with Janan that I was introduced to you. Janan, October after October 7, 2023. That's when I first met you. That's when I know a lot of my community first met you. But you've been, you've been doing this liberation work for some time. But introduce us to Janan, pre. For those of us who didn't know you, pre, October 7, 2023, talk to us about where you were, how your journey started, etc. Etc.

[Janan Matari]

Wow, what a question.

[Jade]

Loaded question.

[Janan Matari]

Died. Okay.

[Kia]

Real.

[Janan Matari]

I do feel like I have lived, lived so many lives since October two years ago. I was doing this type of work, you know, my, my education background, I have a degree in journalism and social psychology. I have been writing publicly for, you know, over 10 years.

And my work was really centered more so on the Muslim identity. That was really like the first rise of the Trump era and having to combat a lot of Islamophobia, just kind of felt like the urgency was more on the Muslim side of things.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Janan Matari]

And so, you know, I had always been writing about community issues. It was less tackling stereotypes of outside community members on the Muslim community and more tackling issues within the Muslim Community itself, and kind of starting conversations about things that were too taboo, specifically, you know, for Muslim women to talk about. So that was a lot of what, you know, I was focused on. And in 2021, I had shifted to more of a Palestinian storytelling type of narrative because it was the first time that I had seen social media really being used to educate people on Palestine. And I realized that I had more things to say about it. If you don't remember, you know, what happened in 2021. There was a village called Sheikh Jarrah, which is something that is still being assaulted heavily today by Israeli settlers. It was circulating in the news because of Palestinian writers and influencers on the ground in Palestine. Like using Instagram Live to literally show people their house being stolen in real time by a settler came from Brooklyn. No offense.

[Jade]

Oh, no, none taken. That's that. Listen, I'm over here, okay?

[Janan Matari]

And. And so I. I just kind of found myself, like, joining in on the conversation from the Diaspora perspective and being able to, like, teach people for the first time that this is what happened to my grandfather's house in 1948. And so the stories just kind of kept coming, and from there, you know, I was at a. I was at a PR agency job that really loved the fact that I was not a white woman. I mean, you see what I look like. You see the way that I speak. Like, I am. I am a brown woman, but I don't look that way. To be the most diverse person on the team is like a really.

[Jade]

So.

[Janan Matari]

But, like, I was the. A key diversity voice for the agency. I, you know, I was there during the rise of blm, and I wrote their Black Lives Matter statement for the company. I was bringing in Muslim and brown and queer accounts for them. They were using my Instagram, which was much smaller then, but, like, slowly growing. And the writings that I, you know, had published on my Muslim identity, they were using it to bring in diverse clients. I was winning awards for the agency because of the campaigns that we were running, and everything was great until it was time for me to talk about Palestine on my platform. And so there was a, you know, back and forth of, let me help you craft your messaging. As a white woman who knows nothing about Palestine, let me help you. Like, can we temper your messaging a little bit? And so I realized, you know, in that moment, I had a lot to say that I wasn't comfortable suppressing anymore in order to, like, keep a steady paycheck. And I decided to leave and start my own agency, but also really focus on my Writing about Palestine specifically, I didn't want any censorship to be involved. I didn't want to worry about a paycheck. I didn't want to worry about pissing off a boss. I wanted it to be on my own time, my own terms. And from there, I really started the. The shift in my. In my content to be more Palestine focused. But it was still like, fluff, you know, like, it was education, but it wasn't like hardcore education now a lot of culture. It was a lot of, you know, fashion and beauty and sharing the. The good parts about what it means to hold the Palestinian identity without really ruffling any feathers.

That seem to be hitting me in the face.

[Jade]

They don't even think about the language that they use. Can we temper your message? Would you temper a bowl of soup that you serve to somebody? You want to serve somebody some lukewarm soup? Like, would you temper somebody's tea when you serve it to them? I don't serve me no tempered coffee in the morning. That's gonna piss me off. You know what I mean? So, like, you want to temper my message? Do you even think about what you say when you say it? You don't.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, it was a very interesting conversation. And, like, because in the same breath it was. I don't know anything about what you're talking about, and I'm gonna stay neutral, but let me help you craft your messaging, because I can tell your story better than you can. Even though I don't know anything about your story.

[Kia]

I think, you know, what. What I'm hearing and what I feel like I'm resonating with is, like, you know, I think there comes a time in all of our lives, particularly as women of color, where we sort of step into our own analysis and apply our own lenses and critiques and interrogations of systems and structures. And so, particularly when you said, you know, transitioning from topics that were more fluff and being more critical, talk a little bit about what sort of standing in that identity has been. Been like for you. Is it scary? Is it empowering? Is it, you know, like, for Janan, the woman, how has it felt to sort of reclaim this. This, you know, find your voice and. And claim it and use it in this way.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, sorry. If you saw my screen shaking, that was my.

[Jade]

I'm don't real over here, girl.

[Kia]

Please live your life where. Yeah, reality podcasting. We are. We are not.

[Janan Matari]

I mean, it was scary in the beginning. It was definitely scary. And I.

I think that fear is really centered around other people's perspective of me. And, like, I grew up dealing with bullies at every stage in my life. And so, like, I did care about what people thought about me. That was important. I also grew up in a community that is, like, obsessed with the phrase what will. What will people say? You know?

[Kia]

Yeah, yeah, relatable.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, that was exactly. That was weird. That seems to only be a.

Yeah.

[Jade]

No, we deal with it too.

[Janan Matari]

Much.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

And so once I got through that, like, not caring what people have to say and really trusting that I. I just know what I know. Like, the more you lean into the belief of ancestral knowledge, the more you lean into the belief of, like, lived experiences and indigenous storytelling and record keeping as, like, a valid form of receiving and sharing information, the less likely you are to fall into this trap of silencing yourself because you're afraid of what somebody else is going to say.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

And it's. It comes in steps. Right. Like, it's something you have to kind of get over. And gradually when you start talking about Palestine, the worst thing somebody could say is call you a terrorist or call you a terrorist sympathizer. And then once you're like, no, I know that this is. And I'm not saying this, then like, the thing that is like, the worst thing somebody could call you is anti Semitic. And then when you're like, no, no.

[Jade]

I know, I'm not that.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah. So it's this gradual progression of, like, all of these terrible things that people can call you, including, you know, inter community stuff like, yeah, for sure.

We're not. Palestinians are not a monolith. We don't all agree and each other really terrible things. And so those were also things that, like, I had to get over. Right. Yeah. And so once you get to that point where you, like, genuinely just don't care and you believe in your message enough and the importance of it, that fear just kind of seems silly.

[Jade]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're absolutely. And you know what's so interesting, especially with the Palestinian movement specifically, you know, we're black girls. We've always been black or we've been. We're very, very black culturally, and it's very comfortable for us. That's where we've always set. And you know, people say ignorant things in the world all the time. Right. And that's on a scale depending upon your experience. And we could combat that with you. You don't know what the. You're talking about. I did not deal with.

True dissension from other people until I started speaking on the Palestinian movement, which I found to be very interesting. Why do you think that is? Why do you think people are so comfortable dismissing you all's narrative and experiences?

[Janan Matari]

I think.

I think a lot of it has to do with conditioning. Like, I just finally, after a year, just finished writing a book that's coming out in fall of 2026.

[Kia]

Nice.

[Jade]

Congratulations.

[Janan Matari]

I co authored it with my best friend who's also a big Palestinian voice, Alana Hadid. It's for middle school aged kids and it's meant to be like a Palestine 101 book. And a large of the book talks about the conditioning of the general public, by media, by entertainment and just by like society in general, in the west, right. Wherever that stays.

To see Arabs, specifically Palestinians and specifically indigenous voices as not valid. And like cycle of propaganda that there's these tactics that are, they just recycle. See, the same type of tactics that were used by early colonists and settlers here on Turtle island about the way that they demonize native men. They, they called them things like savage, barbaric, which are things that are being said about Palestinian men. Same thing was said about black men.

They made the white woman victim, you know, identity. That not only justified slavery, then justified segregation. They said it was good for society. You hear them talking about Palestine, the apartheid wall being good for, you know, Western society, for it, to protect Western civilization. It's not that bad. There are people who like it, they prefer it this way. It's all recycled content that they have used throughout time in order to further the, you know, the, the colonial expansion of these empires that are just designed to like systematically oppress all of us in the same way. And so when you start making those connections, you're gonna get like the people in power and, and the people that they've been able to brainwash calling you crazy, like trying to make you seem like you're, you know, not mentally well for being able to connect the dots like this.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Janan Matari]

So, and all of that, right, like I veered a little bit off the topic, sorry, but.

[Jade]

Oh, you're good. Please.

[Janan Matari]

All of that is how they have been able to, to get people to discount or completely disregard the Palestinian narrative in something like the fight for a free Palestine. Hear them talking about us, we're never included in the conversation. You know, there's anti Arab propaganda that started in the, the 80s in this country that led up into the Gulf War that demonized, you know, Arabs, that made people, you know, reconsider their relationships with Arabs in their neighborhood, in their communities, that made them afraid of us, that all set the tone leading up to propaganda that we heard immediately after 911 that dignized Muslims and Arabs, that manufactured consent for things like the Iraq War, the invasion of Afghanistan killed millions of people. And it's connected to the things that you're reading today in mainstream media about Palestine.

[Jade]

Yeah, it is. It is all connected. We speak about that often, actually, even in terms of occupation and surveillance used. You know, oftentimes the same surveillance is used in Palestine that's used in New Orleans for AI facial recognition so that they can capture people who are committing crimes. You know what crimes.

[Kia]

So allegedly.

[Jade]

Yeah, yeah, right. Well, let's make sure we throw those up. You know what I mean? And even the training of the police officers, you know, is. Is happening by the idf. And you can see the tactics, you can see the shared tactics. As you were talking about.

Israeli settlers earlier. I just was watching. Excuse me, I just was watching how they are literally taking black people's homes in bed sty right now.

[Kia]

They are going around the mid Atlantic. Yeah, this happening in Maryland. It's happening. It's happening in Virginia. It's happening in West Virginia. I'm sorry I cut you off. I'm just.

[Jade]

Oh, no, you're fine.

[Kia]

No, I just saw that.

[Jade]

Please put me on. I didn't know that.

[Kia]

No, it's happening up and down there, especially, you know, as a homeowner. And just I think it's a good sort of pause for the cause. I think all of us need to pay closer attention to our deeds. There are people who are coming in and nefariously, you know, illegally assuming with.

[Jade]

The backing of the cops too.

[Kia]

Excuse me, assuming ownership of property and seizing and people have. Are like, you know, just pay, pay attention. Keep up with your property taxes, pay attention to your mortgage statements. Give the folks a call, make sure. Ask to see your documents, to see them in writing because this is something that is absolutely happening. It's a tactic and. And information is power. I'm sorry since I cut you off, but keep going.

[Jade]

No, that it was all to this point, actually you did. This is. You just interjected with more information that's necessary because I didn't realize. And that's good information for people to check their deeds because they. And this has all been. Because Israel has been able to do this all up and through Palestine with nobody checking them. There's been no checks and balances. Is. And it's just disgusting. And. And when we talk about the quote unquote, Greater Israel and I don't want to make it. I Don't. This, this conversation is not about them, but when we talk about the quote, unquote, greater Israel and what their plans are, we've got to pay attention to the minutiae of how that slowly expands out because it happens quicker than you realize it does.

[Kia]

But Janan.

[Jade]

Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, sister.

[Kia]

I was going to say to your, to, to that end, I think, you know, building off of what Janan was saying, I am particularly inspired by your work in the form of.

Just that there's a power in narrative. Right. You were talking about how the power infrastructure leverages a narrative to control.

To sustain the current power dynamic and keep from shifting that from dominant, dominant voices to those identities that have been historically marginalized and underserved and harmed. I feel like this is also one of the major tools of resistance that I am.

Inspired by when thinking about your work, particularly as an educator. I work in education and I think a lot about how.

The aim is to keep us as ignorant as possible and misinformed as possible and in the dark as possible. And so I'm just thinking about this alongside with the rise of anti intellectualism, the dismantling of structured education, the changing of what is taught in classrooms, I think it's pretty powerful that you are in your book books and your work targets younger audiences. So wanted to, to talk to you about that choice because I think one, one might argue, and I think it has been leveraged, you know, by the right, that you know, that these messages are not safe for children or they are harmful to children or children can't handle this kind of discourse and conversation. And we know that to be, you know, a lie. But, you know, just, just, just talk to us a little bit about why you have chosen to, to, to this particular audience as a target for a lot of the work that you've been putting out recently.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, we were actually just talking earlier. Just yesterday I got canceled again from a story time that I was supposed to do virtually for the Los Angeles Public Library.

[Jade]

Y' all hear that? The Los Angeles Public Library. Say their names so that they, they can be held accountable. Excuse me. Go ahead.

[Janan Matari]

It's important to recognize the danger of that happening at a place like a library versus a for profit bookstore, which I've dealt with before and you know, it is whatever. But a library is supposed to be a public place of access to all to like kind of cut that off for children at such an early age. Just proves how important early childhood education is on, you know, indigenous stories and stories about Palestinians and it's funny. I actually, I never intended on entering, like, the children's literature space. I recognize the importance of it. I didn't truly understand.

The void that there was in children's literature until I had kids. But this story that I, you know, the Everything grows in Jinda's garden. It came from a larger interview that I did with my maternal grandparents, just as a way to record our family history. If you have elders that are still around, I highly suggest just sending them down and nothing formal. Just get their stories and just ask them questions. You don't have to have a list of questions ready.

[Kia]

Just talk. Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

And you'll be so surprised at the things that they're willing to, to share if they understand that the receiving party is, like, really there to just listen and not interrogate and, you know, not, you're not there with an ultimatum or with, you know, a larger purpose. You just really just want to hear about their lives.

And I, I, I did that because my grandparents, I'm so grateful that they're still around. I have little kids and I know that they're not going to be here forever. And so I wanted to be able to one day sit my kids down with hours and hours of footage of our family story. Just say, watch it from the people who experienced it, because nobody tell a story like the person who lived it.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Janan Matari]

There's always a piece missing. There's always a feeling that's missing, vibe that's not there when it's being retold. And so I just wanted to give that gift to my kids. And in this process, I learned about my grandfather's connection to gardening. And it's something that I grew up watching him do. Never understood it. I talk about all the time how I was raised as, like, the typical American kid. I watched this old man break his back over this garden for, like, fruits and vegetables that you could literally go to the grocery store and buy.

Are you wasting your time? And so I.

In that moment. And this was pre October 2023. So this was like a long, a long time in the works.

He's telling me about how he learned to garden from his father, my great grandfather, who was a landscaper in Palestine, pre neckba. So pre 1948. Yeah. And I was like, okay, cool. Now I get it. There's, like a sweet connection to you and your dad and the garden. And I understand. And then later on in the interview, I'm getting a story from my grandmother, and she's telling me about the time that they survived something called Black September In Jordan, which was a civil war happening between Palestinians and Jordanians in Jordan. And you could not leave your house without getting shot. In the crossfires of this war, like, people literally die. My husband has family members that like literally died praying in their house because a stray bullet through an open window. So she had my mother and my mom's sibling at the time. They were very little. She said she couldn't go to the grocery store. Like they didn't know what, like they couldn't, they couldn't leave for anything. Not water, not gas, not nothing. And so being a young mom, I was like, well, how did you. The first thing I thought was, how did you feed, feed your kids? And she tells me that in the courtyard of their home in Jordan. So I don't know if you know, like the.

The architecture of homes in like the eastern world are very centered around things like courtyards and open sunlight.

[Jade]

Yes. Beautiful foyers. And I was like, it's so grand. Yes.

[Janan Matari]

In their home, you know, surrounded by these four concrete walls, my grandfather was keeping a garden, a fruit and vegetable garden. And that was what they lived off of until war ended. And so that was my moment of like, okay, now I understand there's that sweet connection reminding you of your dad, but also it's survival. Yeah. Or I even understood, you know, Palestine truly from the indigenous lens of like, like stewards of land and.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

Connections. And then like the, the, the lifeline that our land is for us as a people. And I, you know, I'm a long form writer. I, I'm very dramatic in my writing. I was like, okay, this is going to be like a really amazing love story centered around this man in his garden. And for weeks I was just like months actually, I was sitting on the story, couldn't figure out what with it. I knew what the core of it was, but I was like, I just can't figure out how to build something around it that, like, for people, you know. And I'm telling this to my husband's best friend who's visiting us from Colorado at the time. And he's like, as you're saying this, I actually am envisioning this really vibrant garden. And so I think it would be great that if you could find an illustrator to turn this into a kids book. And they literally just. Out the garden. Yeah, yeah. So that was my, that was my switch where I was like, okay.

[Kia]

I love that for so many reasons. Right. Because I hear such complexity in the story. Right. And I, and I am just like right now, given the attack on narrative and on.

I see it as, like, the scholarly contributions of black and brown people, Brown people, like.

To your. What we were talking about before around this narrative, around barbarism and everyone saying that we are savage and unlearned and uneducated and, you know, not, you know, what it takes to, like, you know, cultivate a garden under these conditions. I hear genius. I hear skill, genius, genius. I hear, you know what I'm saying?

[Jade]

Art.

[Janan Matari]

Art.

[Kia]

I hear scholarship. And it's important for kids to know that they have that in them already. They don't have to go out to any other formal, quote, formal educational system to get that. But that is in your bloodline already. And.

It is a. But, you know, like you said, it's a love story. It's a, It's a story of, of.

[Jade]

Intellect and, and, and resistance.

[Kia]

And there's just so many beautiful things in. And it's your family history. It's not contrived. It's not imagined. It's not, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, you know, I, I think that that is, that's the resistance that I feel like that resonates with me so much right now is remembering that we have what we need. We've been, you know what I'm saying? Surviving is a part of our DNA.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

It's already in there. I'm sorry. I got excited. It just.

[Janan Matari]

I love hearing that. I love hearing everybody's takeaway from. Yeah, it's so different for. Depending on who's reading it. And I, I, I was talking at a event in Chicago, and I was saying how it's so, so interesting. People, like, people will literally send me, like, pictures of their children. I have no idea who they are, but I'll get, like, dm. People's kids, like, reading the book, and they're so excited, but there isn't a kid cute enough in this world to compete with the pictures I get of people's grandparents reading.

[Jade]

Grandparents do something for me.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

I got this really sweet photo of. She's actually a soccer player on the Palestinian women's national soccer team. Sent me a picture of her grandparents, like, in their tomato orchard, like, peeking out with the book in their.

[Kia]

Stop. Stop. That's like, it's so. It is so.

[Jade]

Because that makes it worth it.

[Kia]

There's like, this. I've been doing a lot of work on, like, epistemic justice, so thinking about, like, ways of knowing and ways of making meaning. And, you know, the, the white folk will have you believe that they, like, there's only one way to do that. Do that. I even, I, you know, like, as I was preparing my dinner last week, I was thinking about, wow, my grandmother was a scholar, she was an engineer. Like, all the things that she was able to do, you know, like what it takes to sort of prepare a.

[Jade]

Meal and serve a community.

[Kia]

Like that's a body of work.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

And that's a skill that people can go and get formally trained to do. But that is something that was passed down through your lineage. And I think, think that that's amazing if we think about that. Like, you know, that's not, that's, we don't have to subscribe to any other way of knowing or what qualifies as knowledge or any of that, because that is already in inherent to who we are as a people. And the way that, you know, children's books are, are literally a gateway to that. That's how we open doors to those kind of possibilities. So I, I, I get that from hearing about your book and the story of its, of its con. Conception. And I, I'm just really inspired by it.

[Jade]

Thank you very much.

[Janan Matari]

So it's so important to nurture that skill in children, like that inherent ability to survive and to create and sustain life. Like there's a reason why they're are killing and targeting.

[Kia]

Absolutely.

[Jade]

For sure.

[Janan Matari]

Like, you have people who are literally able to feed people through, like they are finding ways to grow life out of concrete.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

And it's threatening, it's, it's to power. And yeah, I did, I did like a ton of market research on my own kids. I don't know the ethics behind that.

[Jade]

We all fall short somewhere.

[Kia]

They're yours. They're yours. So you're also biased to their care. You're like, you know what I'm saying? You're also attentive to what they need. So reading a lot of reading, finding.

[Janan Matari]

Out what kept their attention, what didn't keep their attention. I was very intentional about the, the, the rhyming in the. It's a very simple, you know, story. And I realized that they were re like, I could read a book like a really shitty Dr. Seuss book with words that don't even exist. And I, I six times and they would never break focus. But I tried to read these beautiful Palestinian children's books that were a little bit for an older age, but like such important stories. And I would, you know, I would hit one word that they didn't understand and it was like the eyes just glossed over. I was like.

Sweet rhymey it's gotta have rhythm. It's gotta be really colorful. And. And it was very, like, through the editing process, they brought on this incredible poetry editor who sent back the first draft. And it was, like, the most, like, eloquent. Yeah. Like. And. And I. I cried. I, like, sent it back, and I was like, this is too pretty. I can't have.

[Jade]

What are you talking about?

[Janan Matari]

Kid is gonna ask me for 10 minutes what this word means. I can't. Like, it can't be in the book.

[Jade]

It has to be simple.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah. So it's. It's very. Like, sometimes I. I read it. Now that I've read it, like, a hundred times. Like, this really is just so simple. I don't get the hype.

[Kia]

But that's a skill. That's a skill.

[Jade]

You know how hard it is to.

[Kia]

Explain complex things in simple ways like that. That is a skill. That's a real.

[Janan Matari]

Like.

[Kia]

That's. That's not. That's no B.S. like, it takes.

[Jade]

This morning. Yeah. We're walking, and Noah's like, mama, what's radiology? What's a radiology center? And I was like, you know, it's where they, like. You know, I start trying to get into the explanation, and I'm. I'm fumbling myself. I'm like, I know what it is. I don't know how to explain this to her, so. Same thing.

[Kia]

Yeah. One of my. I remember, like, it was undergrad, maybe, like, freshman or sophomore year. I had a professor who would say, like. He would say, like, Occam's Razor. And he would say, like, listen, the smartest people, like, you know, people. Y' all think that people who use flowery language and big words are smart. No.

[Jade]

Like, TI does that.

[Kia]

The smartest people are the people who are able to distill complicated things in very simple language. Language like that. That's the. That's literally the definition of brilliance.

So I. You know, I don't. I don't want to glaze over that. Like, I'm sure it did take a long time, but that's why I feel like people who write for children, like, we ought to give them more grace, more. You know, we should. They speak their names a lot more. And, you know, there's a lot. And because this. It's important for them to understand that complexity is.

[Janan Matari]

Is.

[Kia]

Is a thing. But you don't want to present it to them in a way that in, like, you know, shuts them down. Like you said, like, you'll lose somebody really quick. Like, I don't know what that means? I'm checked out.

[Jade]

Yeah. Especially in this day and age where our attention spans are already being attacked.

[Kia]

Precisely.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

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[Jade]

You've shared some beautiful footage, Jeannan, of going back home.

And I saw your pictures of the very last time that you were able to go back.

And I would love for you to share some of those, those beautiful aspects of what you took away from your visit back home. Because we, we talk about the, and it's important to talk about the genocide. It's happening. It's very real. Despite the ceasefire, we know that the attacks are still, still imminent. But I would love for you to also share some of the beautiful aspects of, of going back to your land and visiting your land and what you took away from that.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, that's, that was a like life altering trip for me. That actually wasn't supposed to happen.

So my husband was born and raised in Jordan and.

We'Ve been married for eight years now. But his family was not able to get visas to come to our wedding. So our family is like his immediate family on his dad's side. And like my family never actually really got to like, like meet.

So in 2023 we had had two kids and we decided that we were going to take one big family trip so that his dad's family could meet my family, my parents, my brothers and they could meet our kids for the first time. And it was a two week trip. I like teased the idea of going to Palestine with my husband and he was like, I really don't want to go, but not for the reason that you think. Like, I don't want to rush this trip in Jordan, but I, I also don't want to rush this trip in Palestine. I think we should plan like a trip and just be there. I was like, okay, deal. And then one day we went to the Dead Sea. During this trip in Jordan, if you know anything about like, geo, you know, geography, the Dead Sea on the Jordanian side is literally just looking at Palestine. So you're like this water. I'm staring at Palestine and I'm like looking at my husband, distraught. Like, I have to just, I have to just for.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

My family was talking about this express visa that, you know, you could buy and it would be a really quick trip in and out. And it was during the time of that visa program, which is actually terrible, you know, with the US and Israel where they were trying to figure out if you could like get a visa on the spot or not require visa for like travel between the US and Israel. So it was something that still to this day is very discriminatory against Palestinians. Not everybody can do it. We got lucky and we decided to take a 24 hour trip.

Between, like actual travel, you know, through and back into the border and getting to the old city of Jerusalem. I think I was there for less than eight hours.

Prior to all of this. I was like, very, very excited to go to Jordan and just be in, you know, West Asia.

[Jade]

Yeah, same, same. I know. I'm like, it's not.

Because the Middle east of where, you know what I mean?

[Janan Matari]

I was very excited to be back in, in West Asia. I had been struggling a lot here with, you know, postpartum loss of friendships, just early mother identity stuff. And I really, I couldn't like ground myself here. And I was like, I just, I don't think we belong here. And I, I'm excited to go back, be around our people and, you know, be close to our land. It's not Palestine, but still be close and we can make life work there. And I remember just being disappointed when we got to Jordan, which is, you know, it's, it was home for my mom's family after the Nakba. It was home for my husband's family after the Nakba. It's still home to so much of our family. Mom has a childhood there. Like, it's still, it's still so important. It's such a beautiful place to be and I love being there with our family and being immersed in the culture, but it still just didn't feel like home and I couldn't understand why. And so feeling that after, like going into that trip, just kind of being desperate for it to feel that way, I was, I was like, okay, maybe I Just kind of have to suck it up and like, make home here, the States. And then we went to Palestine. And like, the minute that I got out of that van, I, like, I just smelled the air. There was this feeling in my body that just. It was like a sense of calm. And it was like this voice just being like, just a reminder, like, this is home. This is where no other place that feels like it or might like, look similar to it or speak a certain language that's similar to, like, nowhere else is going to feel this way except here on this land. And I think if it wasn't for that trip, there were also so many things that happened while I was there. I, you know, here I've been gluten free for six years because mess with the food. Yeah, I went there and I was like, eating everything, like all of the. I had missed out on like, tradition crab. I was like, fine. No, no, like, reactions.

[Kia]

Nice.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, I just, I was comfortable. I was safe here. You know, I told you, I'm an anxious mom. I'm consistently like, like a hawk on my kids over there. I was like, letting them run throughout Al Aqsa compound. Like, you know, behind me, they were to the side. And I was like, it's good. We're, you know, we're surrounded by our people. Like, I have no, I have no fears about their safety. I saw their smiles, like, just, you know, innately become bigger and, and more natural.

There was just a series of things that happened. Like, you know, my cousin who I ended up helping evacuate out of Gaza in February of 2024. She happened to be in the old city that day. I hadn't seen her in 18 years, and that was like, I saw her in 18 years. We just happened to be there on the same day.

[Kia]

Wow.

[Janan Matari]

Initially, to try and surprise my best friend from home who had moved to Palestine after getting married. She was pregnant and she was two weeks away from her due date. I had this whole, like, plan of surprising her husband, bringing her to a coffee shop, and me surprising her. And. And like, as you were crossing the border, he was like, just kidding. She's in labor. She went into labor two weeks early Stop. Before I left, I was able to, like, surprise her in the hospital. Hospital.

[Kia]

Nice, Nice.

[Janan Matari]

Like all of these just seemingly divine events, like, happening at the same time. I don't know that my voice would be as determined or as, like, unwavering as it is right now if not for those eight hours back home. I believe that the land called me back that day and made sure That I experienced the magic of what it means to be Palestinian in Palestine and then sent me back home two months before. Hit the fan for us. And it was like, okay, now that.

[Jade]

You know, this was two months before.

[Janan Matari]

Two months before.

[Jade]

Yeah. Wow. Wow.

[Janan Matari]

August 9, 2023.

[Jade]

You know, it's so interesting how timing works.

We talk often. Also, we share resources from Sarah. She's BS on blast online about Sudan. And Sarah, she's been here. She's the most beautiful spirit. She sent me this vial of Sudanese perfume. And her. This was from her brother's wedding. And her father, right when the war started, this iteration.

Her family, her mother sent her father and was like, you need to get a bunch of our stuff. And they were able to. To salvage just a few things. And she sent me a little vial of some of the Sudanese perfume they were able to salvage. And I. I just. There's something to these messages about really listening when you are called for something. You know, I know oftentimes we are taught if you have to fight too hard, then that means that maybe you should release it. But I think there's a beautiful fine line there, because sometimes it is because you are right where you need to be, and you are supposed to be there for those moments. So the fact that that was two months beforehand.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Jade]

And it was only eight hours. And in anybody else's mind, it wouldn't have been worth it.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Jade]

You had. You got all the grounding that you needed in that time. And that also shows you the power. Power of. Of your land, of your people and your spirit and the connection there as well. So I just wanted to ask you about that. I thought. Yeah, I didn't even realize the timing of that.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah. And I will say, after, you know, two years of, like, really just being in this space, like, hardcore, the way that I am now, the amount of Palestinians in the diaspora, that. That also went back a month or 2 before 2023, after not being there for almost 20 years also. And, like, understanding Diaspora's role in Palestinian education and the way that we've been able to, like, bridge this gap between.

And work with one another. Right. Like, there are stories that we have to cover in diaspora that they can't do it in Palestine. So. And we are, like, looking to them for the source of information, and then we turn it into digestible content for people to learn. Like, that is our job. And I remember, you know, I'm working with a film crew on a documentary called Seeds for Liberation, and they had three Palestinians in that film. Talk about how they went back to Palestine for the first time in over a decade, and had they not done that, they would not have had the strength in their voice and in their messaging that they do today without that trip. And it was just like a moment of like, okay, this. It's, you know, like sometimes you're like, yeah, the land called me back. No, like the land like literally called all of us back to show us what we were fighting for, to figure out a way to like, really tether us to home so that we can go back and do the work.

[Jade]

Like, absolutely.

[Janan Matari]

And yeah.

[Jade]

And amplify that. Especially because they are actively trying to take this over. And we see how they love to twist the narrative of all of us, of all marginalized communities. They love to twist the narratives to fit whatever it is that that works for their agenda. And so it is important that you all did this. You have to take this, this. Because if there's nobody there to preserve that information and preserve that grounding feeling, it. It gets lost in translation, you know, it gets lost in history. As you were talking about your family, cuz my aunt who I was talking to you about earlier, she also was raised in Jordan. She's from Ramala, but she had to move to Jordan because of the Nakba.

Talk to us about third culture kids. Kids, what that means, what it is, how, how you are a third culture kid, how that has impacted your experience. Talk to us about third culture kids.

[Janan Matari]

That's so interesting you asked that because I haven't talked about that in almost 10 years. Like, that's a very specific identity that I used to really, like, focus on. And I, I have like. I was literally thinking about it like yesterday where I was like, oh, you.

[Jade]

Know, I have spirit.

[Kia]

In a while.

[Janan Matari]

But it's becoming very, you know, like, over the last couple of days, it's become a very, like, prominent presence in my life and understanding of what it means to specifically be a Palestinian American that I know. So many people who were born and raised here decided to now move back to Palestine and are having a little bit of a hard time because they are recognizing the difference in like, Palestinian American culture versus Palestinian culture in Palestine versus American culture here. Right. Like, the concept of a third culture kid is somebody who was raised with the same cultural traditions and upbringing as people in their ancestral homeland, but raised removed from that homeland in a culture that is like, vastly different than what their ancestors were used to and accustomed to. And like, in that effort to assimilate into the place that you're physically in now, Right. Like, so as a Palestinian American assimilating to American civilization, society, while also trying to grasp and, and hang on to Palestinian culture from afar, you end up developing like this little mini culture in itself. And that's the third culture that, you know, people, people call it. And it, it, it's a weird, it's a weird thing to like, I can imagine remember, like, you know, you grow up always kind of knowing that you're different here, not really fitting in, not really understanding why. And then you go back home and you're like, you feel a little bit more comfortable, but still not 100%. And then you just kind of are stuck in this, you know, mid center of okay, well where actually do I belong and where am I going to feel entirely complete and does this place even exist?

And yeah, I've been thinking a lot, a lot about that.

[Jade]

You're still working it out?

[Janan Matari]

I think so. I think I'm, I think I'm accepting that we're all kind of creating our own community. Yeah. Third culture. Right. Part of the reason why I thought about it was I was wondering if there's anybody out there who has yet to research like the next generation of third culture kids and misleading return to older traditions and you know, this return to indigeneity. Right. Like so many Palestinians, so many people, not just Palestinians, so many people who are in this third culture diaspora, they have lost so much about like of their culture, of their traditions.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

You see people like going back to Italy after their families have been here for a hundred years, they're like moved here for a better life. Now I'm moving back there for a better life. Like, like what is the next generation going to like, are they going to gravitate more to, towards old school tradition, towards culture or and like totally reject whatever they were trying to assimilate to or like is there this continuation of that third culture feeling that's just going to be generational for us now?

[Jade]

I think that's, I think that's, it's always going to be a thing. Right. Because people migrate. People are put out of their spaces and people migrate, but they take pieces of their culture with and they adopt others. I've got Nigerian friends and Ghanaian friends and Jamaican, British, Brooklyn friends. I'm like, what the you got going on? You know, it's like, but it's beautiful because it creates, it creates almost a whole nother culture.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

And I think that's, I think that's actually gorgeous. Exactly. Four culture children.

[Kia]

I think, like, just if you're interested There's a. There are a lot. There are lots of black education scholars who have written about this.

Discussing sort of the experiences of black immigrant students across, like, the P20 pipeline. So from K12 all the way through college, and this concept of, like, you know, race, ethnicity, nativity, like, Nate, like, you're aware, you feel native and like, the collision and intersections of all of these things. And I feel like a lot of that work has happened thinking about, you know, students, children within the. The U.S. but I really love your. The, you know, the. The added layer of folks who are returning or. Or going back, whether. Whether for just vacation or, you know, just being submerged within. Within that. Within that culture. You know, I've had lots of friends who are, you know, and it's. It is kind of popular now, but, you know, a lot of folks are going back to Ghana for New Year's and others, you know, and, you know, just coming back and processing that experience. My friend was telling me, you know, seeing free black children. I was thinking about that when you were talking about how you let your kids run free in Palestine. She was like, you know, we don't know. Like, we've never seen free black kids in the United States. But when you go to other places and see children run around without that fear of literal, you know, you know, all. All of the things that we're afraid of here, they don't exist over there. So I.

[Jade]

Because, you know, Noah keep asking to ride the goddamn bus, and I'm like, girl, no, I will drive you every day.

[Kia]

Exactly. But I mean, it just. I think. I think there are. I think what you are. There's. There's lot. A lot there. And I think it's not an accident that you're thinking about it, because I feel like there's more to be amplified and elevated about that conversation. Right. And so is what it. What. How all of these things are situated as different layers and dimensions of all the things that makes your culture yours.

[Jade]

And connects and connects all of the kids who have these same experiences across cultures, because, again.

They think they are the most powerful and you all are not the most powerful. And if we are able to find all of the ways that. That our oppression has. Is linked, you know, and we are able to band together in that way, that's how we. That's how we fight. That's how we. But we have. We have to really come together in that way. But the propaganda is strong to keep the division at bay. You know what I mean? They want to keep the division there, and we have so much more in common than we don't.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

So much more in common than we don't.

[Kia]

More writing. More writing. More conversation. More. More. I'm excited. I think, you know, this space, kitchen table getting grown has become a lab of sorts, where I feel like we take ideas and are able to discuss them.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And I think it expands all of our awareness and understanding and knowledge about. About. It adds more depth to sort of our understanding in all the ways that we need right now.

[Jade]

Please.

[Kia]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jade]

Keep doing the work, please.

[Janan Matari]

Thank you.

[Jade]

Janelle, do you have anything you want to share with the audience? Is there anything you want to put out there?

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

That maybe we have not asked you. Please. This is. This is your opportunity.

[Janan Matari]

Oh, I know.

[Jade]

I put you on the spot.

[Janan Matari]

I just have, like, a typical call to action that, like, I always add, but I do have, like, a message to add.

[Jade]

Please.

[Janan Matari]

And the. The call to action is always like, get one person in your real life to. To flip and be, like, 100% pro Palestine. That means getting involved in boycotting, protesting, not questioning the right to, you know, armed resistance, Everything that it means to. To be for a free Palestine. It's so hard because we're all really, you know, like, heads down in our virtual spaces. We have to make this change in our waking life.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Janan Matari]

And so if you get one per. Like, it's so hard to get one person. I've only done this with a handful of people that I have known for 30 years. You know, one person is all it takes. And then they teach one person, and they teach one person.

[Kia]

Each one. Teach one. Yeah. Okay.

[Jade]

I went to the. I go to the. To the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Detention center in Cleveland, Ohio, a few times a year with. With an organization, and I do cooking classes, and they put together all these amazing workshops for the kids. And so I did some podcasting classes with them, and I do some cooking classes, and in the podcast class, I introduced them to Cereal Season 3. 3, which was specifically about the Cuyahoga county juvenile justice system in general. Right. And the nepotism within that and the ways that that has continued the oppression against us as a people. Specifically in Cleveland, though, And the boys did not know.

Half the dos and the cos as well, because they'll sit in. In the classes and listen in. They had no clue about their own justice system and how. How nefarious it is that it has not. It is now being studied elsewhere. And that is when I was like, what do you all know about Palestine? And of course, they don't know anything. They know nothing. So we were able to talk about the connection of their own oppression, of their own experiences, and how that ties into the. Into the greater conversation. And so I'm with you on that, that we have to find ways to continue to amplify and share, and we find, again, a lot more in common so that we can continue to share these. Spread these narratives for sure. Truthful narratives, not what the y' all are doing.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah, exactly. That leads me into my, My, like, message. And this is more like me talking to the Palestinian community. And it's a reminder of, like, our work has. Has to be intersectional. And there I have learned so much, mainly from black women, of how to be strong in the things that I say and how I advocate and demanding that I take the mic when it's time to talk about Palestine. And we have to. We have to put more effort into showing up for people who show up for us and the people who have taught us how to. How to fight this. Now, again, in this book, we have a section on black Palestinian solidarity and the work that the Palestinian American community learned from through black scholars, black activists. I just always take a moment when I feel appropriate to remind my own community that we need to show up for the people who are show up for us. And it's not a give or take thing. Right. Like, it's not they for us, it's. We just have to show up. But, like, specifically when it comes to the black community, what they have done for Palestine and the way that they have allowed us to also center our fight in the fight for black liberation and, and freedom in this country, it's so important that we continue to do this work together. Absolutely. So just, just I hope that, you know, I hope that we continue to step it up and, and do it for as much as I'm fighting and we're all fighting for our home in Palestine and to, you know, a lot of us want to return there. There is so much work that needs to be done here for American citizens who have been. I don't like using the term victims, but they have been victims.

[Jade]

Disenfranchised.

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kia]

Harmed.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah. Oppressive systems, for sure. Are all being used on us at home. And so that recognition always needs to be at the forefront. And there's always more work that we can do.

[Jade]

Absolutely. Violence across the board, but also resistance across the board. And that's for every community. That's for the gay community, that's for the trans community, that's for the black community, Palestinian community. Indigenous community. We have to, we got to amplify everybody and it can't be contingent upon like, oh well, they don't say nothing about me, so I can't say that's not how that works. That's not how we're going to come to freedom.

[Janan Matari]

Like even, like you mentioned, the queer community, like they are on the forefront of everybody. Like their bodies are at the front of every process. And our community needs to do better at showing up for them. Not because they do this for us.

[Jade]

Because this is, because this is humans.

[Kia]

Because this is what is what is to be done.

[Janan Matari]

Intersection than whatever you're fighting for.

[Kia]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Jade]

And you're not wrong. The majority of the, of, of. I hate the word activists, but the majority of the vocal people that I see or I follow or are the most vocal are of the queer community and the trans community, you know, so.

[Janan Matari]

Does that recognize like that shared struggle? There's recognition that we are all fighting.

[Kia]

The same system, the global enterprise of oppression. Right.

[Jade]

And what requires it.

[Kia]

Yeah, it requires us all to, to come together. And I think the division is intentional. Right. I think we have to, we remember, we have to, we have to resist that too. Any, anything that is leveraged to divide us in attempt to conquer us is also something we got to be alert and defensive by. Alert to and defensive against. So thank you for saying that. Thank you for your, your, your voice, your advocacy, your partnership, your platform, all the ways in which you have been leading the, the charge in this work and helping us to be informed and aware so that we might leverage our voices and our platforms similarly and join in the fight with you. We appreciate all the ways in which your work inspires and truly quips and advocates for all of us. So thank you for being here. It's been a pleasure to get to know you. Thank you.

[Jade]

And please tell the people where to find you. Even though we'll have everything in the description box, but please tell them everywhere they can find you in your work.

[Janan Matari]

I'm on Instagram.

Anywhere you can find a social platform. My handle is some variation of at Janet Janan Matari. I also website where you know my, my tour dates for book stuff and, and updates.

Are, are all there. Janan matari.com and I also have a substack that I don't actually use but if I get shut down somewhere it'll.

[Jade]

Be over there as well. Oh and tell your parents I said they've done a beautiful job. Your brother is also incredible. So I, I know that they are really proud to have you on you all as their kids in the work that you're doing. So tell them they've done a beautiful job, truly.

[Janan Matari]

Thank you so much.

[Kia]

Thank you, guys.

[Jade]

All right, you all, we'll see you for the next segment.

[Janan Matari]

Thank you.

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[Jade]

Welcome to Walgreens.

[Kia]

Looking for a holiday gift?

[Host 1]

Sort of.

[Jade]

My cousin Freddie showed up to surprise us.

[Janan Matari]

Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise.

[Jade]

Exactly. So now I have to get him a gift, but I haven't gotten my bonus yet. So if we can make it something really nice but also not break the.

[Kia]

Bank, that'd be perfect.

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[Jade]

Okay, everybody. Okay. Like so much to share this episode. First of all, how beautiful was that kitchen table?

[Kia]

Super good.

[Jade]

So, so amazing. So amazing.

[Kia]

Amazing.

[Jade]

We really do have the best guests and, you know, just the best women in our communities. People, People. I will say people, but.

Women. I'm always going to shout out women more.

Even Tristan be like. So I'm like, no, I deal with you.

[Kia]

But very specifically.

[Jade]

Very, very specifically. But.

[Kia]

In.

[Jade]

In honoring every body. You know what I mean? Because we do know that we have a community of all humans in general. And obviously we love and respect every human experience.

Yes, we had our favorite things episode last, but we didn't get to get to everybody. And pardon us, okay, if we did not get to you. We've got many years to come, so you may start sending it to us. Hellotngrown.com but this particular week, you know, there was a comment we got from someone that said, I would love to make the favorite things listen list next year. And we wait, Miss Girl, we're not waiting until next year. So shout out to Dr. Wendy, one of our most recurring guests on the Show. We love Dr. Wendy. Also our guest from Chicago Live Show, Dr. Wendy. We've been waiting for her to let us know it was ready to go. Has. Has. Has started a brand new, okay, the everybody brand Body with an eye. And then the everybody brand. You can get.

Everybody'S skin, which features an amazing moisturizing safe balm for you to use on your bits, okay? And your bits and bops. And so this bomb, she gifted us a. A bomb.

[Kia]

Oh my God. It's moisturizing that you can use everywhere, darling.

[Jade]

Everywhere.

[Kia]

You know, especially in these winter months, okay. Things can get a little dry. This, this will help.

[Jade]

Especially this one.

[Kia]

Hello. I thought it was just me and I thought it was because I had spent some time, you know, in very dry climates like, like Phoenix or Denver. I feel like I'm still very. But even now that I've been home for a couple weeks, I still feel.

[Jade]

Parched in the skin.

[Janan Matari]

You.

[Jade]

You see me aquafor down all day.

[Kia]

Like listen long with the, with the lift and I'm just.

[Jade]

Goddamn this Mormon cup.

[Janan Matari]

Exactly.

[Kia]

Just checking my elbows constantly because I just feel dry. But no, this body balm.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Is amazing. Also did a little perusing down to the site. The boxers are available. I'm excited about trying those everybody boxes. Yes. And I also picked up an African net sponge because she is selling.

[Jade]

And remember, a lot of people are selling faux African sponges out there that don't have the proper elasticity and stretch. No. Dr. Wendy has been so intentional about every detail of this brand down to the chemistry of the items that she is selling. Remember, there are people out here selling things for your bits and your bots that are not good for you. And you've heard Dr. Wendy on here tell us what is good for us.

[Janan Matari]

We.

[Jade]

What is not good for us. You've heard the way that she speaks and I love how she approached her. Her products with such intention as well. And she did not want to release them until they were all the way. Right. So go down to every body brand, Body with an Eye, every body brand and you can use code EBG15, okay? To get 15% off. There is no deadline as of right now, so you can go right now to eat to everybody brand.com Again, body with an I and use code E, B as in boy, GG. 15 to get your 15 off. And we'll have all of that in the description box, so make sure you check that out as well. She also has mirrors, so we can all pull them out and look at our vaginas. So I'm waiting for her to hire me because I'm going to. To do a reenactment of the scene from Fried Green Tomatoes. So you all just wait for that collaboration. Dr. Wendy doesn't know it's happening yet, but it's. Yeah, go check out the Everybody brand. We are so grateful to you, Dr. Wendy, for always showing up and informing us. And we're so grateful to you for offering and our community, 15% off so that everybody can partake in these amazing products. The Everybody Bomb. Excuse me. The Everywhere Bomb helps restore balance and strengthen the skin's natural barrier, leaving it soft, hydrated, and resilient. It's made for real life, whether you're healing, recovering, or simply marinating or. Excuse me. Marinating. Marinating and maintaining healthy skin every day. So shout out to Dr. Wendy. We love you, Dr. Wendy. We're so, so proud of you. And this is incredible. This. And look at you with your clavicle out and in these pictures.

All right, she said, I'm a model. Okay, next. Remember a few weeks back, we played a card game, and, you know, we love a game here, getting grown every now and again when we need to decompress. So we played. We played Black Girl Hug Hug, which was such a thoughtful game that asked beautiful questions and allowed Kia and I to really explore different conversation and aspects of one another. And, you know, that's what we love to do. Well, shout out to Black Girl Hug. Okay. Because they extended us a offer just for you all so you can get your own set so you all can visit Black girl hug through the 15th of December. And the code is Gigi. That's it. Very simple. Gigi forgetting grown for free shipping on everything. All right? So, yeah, and make sure you all follow her as well so you can see all of the different deals and specials that she's running. And to support a black woman out here doing a beautiful thing. Yes, Yes. I love that. So we wanted to make sure we got those shout outs in now. We have a listener letter together. It, too.

[Kia]

All right, let's do it.

[Jade]

I will say before we shout out the listener letter, shout out to you, Joseph. Joseph is one of our longtime, loyal, getting grown listeners.

[Kia]

Thank you, Joseph. Thank you, Joseph. Keep. Okay.

[Jade]

They constantly send us beautiful emails letting us know what's. I love an update. I love, like, I love a conversational email. And Joseph is. Is. Is beautiful about doing that. And shared with us all of the pictures when they went to the Teacher Moses concert from the Teacher Moses meet and greet. And I said, you know what? That deserves a space on this episode because we love Teacher Moses, we love Joseph, and we wanted to give a shout out. So shout out to you, Joseph. I hope you got your life at the Teacher Moses show.

[Kia]

Yeah, it looks like you did.

[Jade]

It looks like you did. Okay, y' all look good out here. And now we'll get to our listener letters it. So this is near and dear to our hearts. It's the holiday season. We know what the government. The government is out here on all the time. And so shout out to our listener Vanessa, who sent us an email. Hi, Dr. Kia and Chef Jade. I hope you're both doing well. I want to start with gratitude. Your podcast has become such a meaningful part of my week. Thank you, Vanessa. I've been listening since episode one, and I have a long standing appreciation for your willingness to grow in public. Public. Our shared, shared journey through podcast has been a source of inspiration for me. Your dedication and hard work in creating these episodes challenged me, uplift me and bring community into my life, even if I'm listening solo in my car or at home. I was. Thank you, Chicago show. Thank you, Vanessa. I was at the Chicago show and I was geeked to meet you both. I may have even stuttered, but that's neither here nor there. I stutter all the time. I probably stuttered 25 times through this episode.

[Kia]

Yeah, I've heard you stutter.

[Janan Matari]

Literally.

[Jade]

I mentioned that I am employed by Roxbury Community College, a which is the neighborhood of Boston where Jade's dad grew up. It is. I even think I gave you the pen I was writing with. I love that. In this week's episode, you mentioned your desire to support the less fortunate, and I wanted to bring your attention to our campaign to combat food insecurity for students at our school. Because your show means so much to me, I wanted to share something very personal and ask for your help in a way that would mean the world. Your support could help us reach more students and families, providing them with the ability and dignity they deserve. Your potential support can make a significant difference in their lives. There is a food pantry at my job, Rocks Box Rox Box, that is doing critical work. Rocksbox is offering dignity, connection and stability to community college students and their struggling families. It takes $12,500 to purchase another enough food to stock the pantry, cover operational costs, and feed families each month. The pantry operates on a volunteer basis and every dollar donated goes directly to supporting these families. And so we'll have the link to Rocksbox in the description box. Rocksbox is facing increased demand. My colleagues have mentioned servicing 80 to 100 students during pantry hours. And every dollar donated has direct impact. And so we wanted to make sure that we put out this call to action to encourage you all, if you have the means, Even if it's $5, even if it's $1, to donate to the rocks box donation page again listed in our description box. And, and Vanessa says if you're open to learning more, I'm happy to connect you with their director or send additional material from our development office to explain how donations are used, who they serve in their long term goals. Thank you so much for considering this. Your support can make a significant difference in the lives of our students and their families. We are happy, we are happy. We are more than very happy, more than grateful to actually be able to have a platform like this to make these types of shout outs. And while we're here, there is, there is a, a shelter in Brownsville here in Brooklyn. I will also have the Amazon wish list. This link here, this is directly going to the children of the families that are located in the shelter. The shelter doesn't have a name because it was formerly a hotel, but that is how they are operating and how they are moving right now. And this is all vetted through a dear friend of mine who is helping through her school for this organization. And so I will have that link also listed in the description box.

And you have up until Christmas, but obviously the sooner the better to purchase these children just some toys so that they can enjoy their holiday like everyone else. So thank you all. Thank you, Vanessa. Thank you to all of our listeners who continue to bring this awareness to us so that we can use this platform to make sure that we're amplifying these messages as much as possible.

[Kia]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

We'll definitely make sure that all of that.

All of that gets to our description box so that you guys can support these very worthwhile causes. I'm definitely going to make it my business to support in all the ways that I can, so shout out to y'.

[Jade]

All.

[Kia]

And I, like Jay said, just want to echo how much gratitude I have in my heart that we have been able to cultivate a space where we can keep each other Informed of ways out we might actually work, walk out that community that we talk about so much. Right. So it's more than that. We don't just talk about it, but we actually, you know, also provide opportunities and access for people who want to engage and actually offer their support. And, you know, like Vanessa said, there's nothing that's too small. No, no, that. You know what I'm saying? Like, especially now, there's nothing that's too small of a donation. Yeah. So hopefully. Hopefully we all can come together and. And have. Make a difference for sure.

[Jade]

Absolutely. All right, let's move on to this self care. All right.

[Janan Matari]

I deserve.

[Kia]

All right, y'.

[Janan Matari]

All.

[Kia]

And so my self care this week is very basic, but it was something that was very helpful to me. Like I said, my. My time off last week was still.

In the ways that I needed it to be. And I was very intentional about unplugging. Right. I was talking to our sister, Franiqua, because Franiqua is always the constant inspiration. But one of the ways that she really inspires me is that Franiqua has very serious tech boundaries.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

So, like, it's very much like, if you don't catch her, when you catch her, she'll get back to you. And that's in it. And I love that because it's never like. It's never like, oh, man, friend didn't get back to me. It's just like, she'll get back to me when she. When she can.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And I. I feel like that is healing the. The parts of me that always gets anxious around, you know, not. Not being responsive or. So a part of my unplugging was from everything, particularly the news, the news feeds, the news cycles, all the things. And I did a deep dive. I went back and I binged watched an entire series. Oh. And it was a good one, Sis. I don't know if you remember, but I went back on Hulu and watched all episodes of who's the Boss and got my life.

[Jade]

Stop.

[Kia]

So good now. And another thing that I feel like it's been good for me to go back and watch these things as an adult or as an adult, as my mama said. You are an adult, but add. An adult add, Right?

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

So I feel like I don't even remember it. I don't remember it. But. But, you know, who's the Boss was very much that late 80s, early 90s time we were talking about at the start of the show. But it was one of the more.

[Jade]

Progressive sitcoms, which is really Fascinating. Cause Tony Danza is a Trumper.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

But you know, in that the lead character, Angela Bauer, was a single mom. Her and her partner divorced basically because she wanted a career and she did not want to be a dutiful housewife life. She wanted a career and she could sustain herself. And so for a while, her and her, her partner did the long distance thing, but they came back and had amicable conversation about how them being in the marriage didn't work for them and they decided to split. It was very, it was not contentious. It was very much like they mutually made a decision to go their separate ways and why. And so there were some things, you know, it was the 80s, the early 90s, so there were some things that did not entirely age well. Right. But it was, you know, I think that's not uncommon when you go back to some of these older shows. But by and large, I really did enjoy, you know, some how that, how they handled some of the. More, you know, some of the political aspects of the storyline. And it was really like refreshing to go back and watch and it was really kind of funny, you know, things that I probably wouldn't pay attention to in my childhood. I kind of got got as an adult watching. And you know, finally and most frivolously, Angela Bauer really could dress her ass off. Who knew that Angela Bauer was wearing like, I mean, the highest of fashions of the 80s and 90s. I mean. Yeah, I mean, I mean, like, I mean, YSL jackets, all the amazing frames, shoulder pads. It was, you know, those A line skirts and cinch waist. I got into Angeles fashion quite a bit.

[Jade]

Okay.

[Kia]

And I, it was really just a joy. I got a lot of inspiration. Like, I think I can pull something like that off today.

[Jade]

So it like, you know, and I always enjoy Angela. Angela Bauer and things.

[Kia]

Yes. Judith Light. And so I, I really thought.

[Jade]

I'm sorry. Yeah, you're right. Judith Light. I'm so sorry.

[Kia]

No, yeah, I knew you're talking about. But, but yeah, it, it is. It was really good. And to see who they had. There was a Ray Charles episode. Okay.

[Jade]

Like, there was just.

[Kia]

There was a lot of.

[Jade]

She was an advertising exec.

[Kia]

It was. And she started her own agency. And how progressive it was for the time for her to have a male housekeeper. So you got to see some gender dynamics play out. Him being the only man in more conventional women's spaces and vice versa. And this whole dynamic of their sort of like budding romantic relationship, even in all of this, this, you know, given the unconventional nature of their working relationship. So it was just, like. It was just interesting. It was a really good escape for. I was just, like, locked in my house reliving that time, and I really just enjoyed it. It was like quality time on my couch watching who's the Boss? Eating good food. And it felt like, you know, that nostalgic hug that I needed for the holiday or that holiday season, like, you know, for that day. And I literally watched it. So I. I feel like it might be expiring on Hulu soon, but I really hope that another network picks it up if it's not available already somewhere else. But if y' all can watch who's the Boss, I think it's a good time. I liked it.

[Jade]

You want to know what's so interesting? As I was looking up some things about it, you know. You know, Alyssa Milano and Tony Danza are pretty close, and we all know still. Yeah, apparently. Well, last that was reported, I guess. But Alyssa Milano has.

Been very vocal in many different political stances, like, on the right side of things.

[Kia]

Yes.

[Janan Matari]

She.

[Jade]

With. With. With AIDS awareness. Shout out. We just. And remember. Remember World AIDS Day.

[Kia]

Just World AIDS Day.

[Jade]

World AIDS Day just passed. And this is the first year since 1988 the government has not acknowledged it. No. Surprise, surprise. But she's been vocal about that.

Trying to reduce the influence of the nra, all of them. She was part of a demonstration outside the White House. She called for a ceasefire. Like, I'm just surprised.

[Kia]

I'm just.

[Jade]

I didn't know any of this.

[Kia]

There were a lot of things given, and it was just. It was more progressive than I thought.

[Jade]

It was.

[Kia]

Like, there were many instances of just women standing in their agency and autonomy and their decision making, and that was not something that was common for the time that this show was out. So watching shows like this and Designing Women, it's interesting to sort of see that dynamic and then, like, think about it within the context that we are currently negotiating. And I don't know, as a lifelong sort of TV head, couch potato, it's really big. I enjoy going back and watching these older shows now.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Because I think it makes for some rich conversation. And, you know, to our conversation back. You know, going back to our conversation with Janan, like, there's a lot of power in narrative, and there's a lot of ways that a television show can expose a. A listener or some, you know, someone watching like that. I think that's why there is so much effort to censor and limit, because entertainment and the way that these platforms Are leveraged. Can be political in the best ways. Yes. And so I just. I don't know. It was, it was a. It was a deep dive for me. That felt good and so I just wanted to share that that was my self care.

[Janan Matari]

I love.

[Jade]

You know, I love a revisit. I. I recently revisited Steve Harvey show.

[Kia]

Oh. Now that I feel. Yes.

[Jade]

That. Okay.

[Kia]

I'll add that to my list as well.

[Jade]

Many funny moments. And also I told XD it's. It's highly problematic in the sense where it's very. It's very fat phobic. So there's a lot of. Oh yes, there's a lot of fat folks. So that's. That's something you just want to go into it knowing think.

But I do appreciate and that. And listen, we're gonna encounter problematic narratives in. In a rewatch of everything that we grew up in.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

The awareness or many things was just not there or it was growing. You know what I mean? So, yeah, you know, go into it with that lens. But if, you know, if that's what you choose.

[Kia]

But no, if I found. I found it to be a really good use of my time and a great way to escape the chaos of the current moment. Yeah.

[Jade]

Sometimes.

You know.

[Kia]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jade]

There's nothing wrong with an unplug. Oh, I can't wait. And I'm waiting, you know, because we didn't get a new episode of Matlock for the. For. For Thanksgiving.

[Kia]

I'm all caught up on our sale.

[Janan Matari]

I didn't.

[Jade]

We didn't get a new Elspeth. We didn't get to do Matlock last week. So I'm waiting this week for my shows to come back.

[Kia]

I too am very much like, hello, don't play in my face.

[Jade]

What we did get. What we did get, the both of us, was a chance to attend the Boy Is Mine tour.

I didn't think it would be right for us to not discuss.

A little bit of this experience together since you finally were able to go. And.

[Kia]

And oh my God.

[Jade]

The only thing I'mma tell you all black in every life. I just. Black in every life. I don't want to be anything else.

[Kia]

Can I just say. And I said this on. On social media after the concert, Black Woman. I feel like that concert was just a master class in aging gracefully.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

I think all of the people like, I think they. But I am encouraged because I feel like there is such a regal.

Authentic.

Power.

[Jade]

Yep.

[Kia]

And. And I mean there is. There is. It's just everybody in that. It was Captivating. Right. And I feel like for just a moment that we were. For those. Those couple of hours that we were together in the arena, it really felt like we were literally shielded from the outside world in a way. We were able to go back, literally relive and think about the times and the places and the moments and the memories and the laughs that all sort of are embodied in this music that raised us.

And see women who are every bit of, you know, 40 plus, looking amazing, moving. I mean, it was the artistry, and it was. It was elevated. It was age appropriate. It was. It was inspiring. It was so.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Good. I mean, it was just. I was gagged on every level. It was not one of those concerts where you. To me. It was not one of those concerts where you hold up the phone and record. You have to be present.

[Jade]

Present.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

It's so funny you say that, because I tried a few times to. And I. And I would just put the phone down. I was like, you know what?

[Kia]

I wanna.

[Jade]

For what? For what? I want to be here.

[Kia]

I want to be here. I want to be here for as long as I can, and I want to be able to recall what it felt like to be here.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

I don't want to miss any. Any detail, any nuance.

[Jade]

No.

[Kia]

Because there was. Was some powerful. Again, it was the visuals, the visual arrangement. Yeah.

[Jade]

It was a production.

[Kia]

Top tier.

[Jade]

It was a production. And you can tell if they put a lot into prepping for this.

[Kia]

Yes.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And everybody's. Everybody's sound and character was equally reflected. It didn't feel like it was all of one and not the other or vice versa. Like, everybody that got just. Enough.

[Janan Matari]

Enough. Yes.

[Kia]

Like, Kelly set. Amaz. Kelly set was a full concert, and then we got another full concert from Brandy and another full concert from Monica, and then we got. They got to sing together.

[Jade]

Did you. Were you there before Kelly, or.

[Kia]

No, I was there. I was there from the beginning.

[Jade]

I saw. Okay, you saw.

[Kia]

Did you guys have my. Y' all got money long.

[Jade]

We got money. We had money. Okay.

[Kia]

I had Maya.

[Jade]

Okay.

[Kia]

So, you know, I. I, too. I stand corrected. Not that I. Not that I ever doubted Maya. I never doubted her. I've always loved her. I think that she's stunning and gorgeous and amazing, and I really like her songs. But when you. I had never seen her live, but it was. It was like, you know, you forget. Like, I like this song. Like, you know, she had the jam, she had her hits.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Kia]

And I. I've always felt like, you know, Maya was just out there having a good time. That's what I love so much about it.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Janan Matari]

Yes.

[Jade]

And Maya minds her business.

[Kia]

Yes.

[Jade]

Huh?

[Kia]

Yes. I thought the same of Kelly. I felt like Kelly was having a blast. I felt it.

[Jade]

Kelly was having a good time.

[Kia]

Kelly was having a good ass.

[Jade]

And let me tell you something.

[Kia]

She was. Wanted us to have a good ass time with her.

[Jade]

Absolutely. She was just happy to be there. And I told xd, one of the. One of my favorite elements from her particular performance was the fact that I watched her Bob. Sweat out in real time.

[Kia]

In real time. You saw it swelling up.

[Jade]

I was watching it because it. I said, this is refreshing. Exactly.

[Kia]

She's like, what wig.

[Jade]

Y' all gonna get these roots and.

[Kia]

And it's going to be just fine.

[Jade]

It gave me. It made my heart so warm. Now, who did you all get? Did who. What. What special guest came out for the DC show? Because here I. I. Who I did forget to mention initially was Brandy brought out. She brought out Tyrese's nutty ass and. And he was dressed like a Nigerian uncle with his white loafers and his tunic talk.

[Kia]

We didn't get. We didn't have any of that. There were no special guests.

[Jade]

We didn't.

[Kia]

Surprises. No.

[Jade]

And it was.

[Kia]

It was just fine. It was. I was not. I didn't feel like we. Like or anything.

[Jade]

No.

[Janan Matari]

We got.

[Jade]

We got Tyrese.

[Kia]

I know. She brought out Missy.

[Jade]

We got Sierra.

[Kia]

Okay, good.

[Jade]

Yeah, Good, good, good. We got Max B. I think I told you that, huh?

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

All right. Max B. Came out with his little uncle belly, and I just was tickled. I was tickled pink. And I was so happy to see him free, but tickled pink. And then I. We got. We got.

Fabulous.

[Kia]

Oh, good.

[Jade]

Yeah. You know. Right? I. That's literally always my. It's always like, oh, you know, because Lo was my album. And then, you know, I. The. The reality sets in of the person that he is. You know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, this is an abusive.

[Kia]

Very torn.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Kia]

You know, it's like, okay, yeah, okay, good. Yeah, okay. But I don't. I have the same reaction.

[Jade]

It's like, yeah. Because I forget for a hot second until I don't. You know what I mean? So. But, you know, we had more people.

[Kia]

Like, we had, like, cool audience members there. Like, you know, Michelle Williams was there. Michelle Obama was there. Okay. You know. Yeah.

[Jade]

Y' all did have Michelle Obama. That's right.

[Kia]

Those. You know, those kinds of things. We didn't get any special, like, musical Guests.

[Jade]

Okay. That's, I mean, it's not necessary.

[Kia]

Yeah, it was. No, it was totally. And I just feel like I, I love that we got to see.

Brandy and Monica's individual star quality. You know, I've always said that comparing them is like apples and oranges, right?

[Jade]

Yes, very much so.

[Kia]

It's a different musical experience. Both are equally amazing.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

Right. Because I, I, I feel like I love how poise. Like, like Monica is a showman. Like, you know, she, she captivates the stage. She brings you with her and she, you know, she, it's masterful how she sort of like, you know, executes. Whereas Brandy's vocal, what it's like, first.

[Jade]

Of all, her arrangements, I, I, and I love the husk of her grown woman voice with the airiness of how she sings.

[Kia]

And she makes the best choices.

[Jade]

She really does.

[Kia]

And I think, I don't remember who I've heard say it, but I feel like it was Jasmine Sullivan. But somebody, somebody said that Brandy is your, your favorite singer's favorite singer.

[Jade]

That's what that is what they say. That's what they say. Yeah. Because all the singers, they emulate her runs they give her. And it's singers from Jasmine Sullivan to John Legend and Orange who literally study the way that Brandy arranges the layering of her vocals, the way that her mind works. Y'. All. What's that girl's name on it? What's her name on Wicked? This Alpha. Cynthia. And no, no. Elphaba. And, and what's the other one? What's her name? What's her character? Kristen Chenoweth. Glenda.

Your Glenda also.

Pays great homage to.

[Kia]

Brandy as she very well should. I think what we. I will always. The choices. Like it. You don't hear that kind of, of ingenuity in singing.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Anymore.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

And what I love, I think Jasmine Sullivan is probably the closest that we have to it now of that, of this generation. But I think what, but what I love is that these songs. We're listening. Sitting there listening to angel in Disguise, I'm like, this song is 30 years old. Brandy is singing it like it came out yesterday.

[Jade]

Sister. Because it could have new. It could have.

[Kia]

Exactly. It sounds new because of what she is able to do with it. But it's the, but she still maintains the classic sound that makes, that feels familiar. Like, I grew up listening to this.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

And it would Esche just, it was.

[Jade]

Just because, you know, I was, I was, I, I wanted, I obviously wanted to see the whole show, but I was waiting Specifically for Full Moon and Angel in Disguise. Specifically. Those two songs from Brandy were what. What I needed to see. And she delivered both of them, so.

It was fabulous.

[Kia]

All the albums, let me tell you. When I lost. Lost my, my. When she did Brokenhearted.

[Jade]

Oh, oh, also, I forgot to. You know what? That's right up there with angel in Disguise and Full Moon.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah. Broken Heart.

[Jade]

What?

[Kia]

Real Otherworld.

Very much so here.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

If I had it, I would go go see that show again and again.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

If I could, you know, book me a flight and go. I would go watch that show again. If I could.

[Jade]

I would.

[Kia]

I promise.

[Jade]

I just appreciate. I, I appreciate, I appreciate the work and the intention that they put into producing the show. You could tell it was not half assed. And I'm just really. Yeah, I'm really grateful that I got to be a part. It definitely is one of those that you can see more than once, personally.

[Kia]

Absolutely. Absolutely. Without. Without question. So I would say, I would tell everybody if there's still time, and if this, if the tour is coming to a city near you, you haven't seen it, you will not regret it. Please get yourself there.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Is worth every penny.

[Jade]

I pray that they're able to extend it and take it over to Europe.

[Kia]

I, I wanted. I, I, I would pray for a residency.

[Jade]

Yeah. Also that actually, that would be actually a really awesome residency. Residency. Because they can do so much with it. They can have different guests. Like, they can do so much with that residency. Honestly.

[Kia]

So much.

[Jade]

I could see that as a residency. You're absolutely correct.

[Kia]

That's my, that's my vote. That's my prayer.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Okay. That's what I will put out there as a, as a real desire for me. I see it as a residency, and I don't think anybody deserves it more than Brandy and Monica.

[Jade]

No, I agree with you. And as I was also reflecting on it, I was like, you know, I, I've been to a lot of shows and I've seen a lot of artists more than once. Right. Like, I think Busta Rhymes is. He's probably right. I've seen him so many times. Jay Z so many times. Kanye so many times. I never saw Brandy or Monica. And I realized that Brandy has performance anxiety right from this.

[Kia]

And you can see her personality. Yes. And to me, it endeared me to her in a way. It really made a lot of things make sense. And that's why I feel like it also gave me get. To me, it was like, I like how they take care of each other. I think Monica took care of Brandy.

[Jade]

In a way that she's. That, you know, this is not 1998 anymore. Like, I'm a grown woman and.

[Kia]

Exactly.

[Jade]

You know, and I love. I like girls. Girl, girls, girls. You know? You know, I really. It just. That was one of those nights where it's like, man, I love being a black girl, man.

[Kia]

Oh, I love being a black girl. And so grateful.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Like, and every. And I wouldn't want to. Want to be nothing else.

[Jade]

Nothing else. Nothing else. Yeah.

[Kia]

Wouldn't ever want to be anything else. And I also really love that it was a opportunity and I love how they're leveraging this tour to reclaim the narrative. They're really being very honest and transparency about how the industry set them and pit them against each other. Yes, everybody bought into it, but that was never what they wanted.

[Jade]

No. No, it wasn't. And Monica has, like, you know, I think there's a lot of things. Right. Shout out to the hoochie historian. She's one of my favorites to follow.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

She did put up a. A post today where I was like, listen, there's the validation. There's valid things there. Because I am waiting for. For the documentary. The strange thing about the Norwoods, I think is what she said it should.

[Kia]

Be because now something terribly wrong because.

[Jade]

We have got to investigate Sonia. And XD is not. He's like, nope. We are holding Willie Ray Senior right up. Cuz something is miss with those two.

[Kia]

Because both of them kids is not right.

[Jade]

No, they not. No, exact. Sister, sister, sister.

[Kia]

And I say that with love.

[Jade]

No. Very much so. No.

[Kia]

We know what's up. Y' all heard me. I stand for Brandi.

[Jade]

Absolutely.

[Kia]

You know what I'm saying? Like, if it. It is that. I mean, deep love and connection. Like, Brandi is a vocalist that you study.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Brandy is like. You know what I'm saying? Like, I. I burned. I burned through three of them never say never CDs. I mean, literally burned through them.

[Jade]

Listen.

[Kia]

Because. And it still goes. It still goes front, like, you know what I'm saying? When you go through my top artists on Spotify. Brandy, number one.

[Jade]

Not.

[Kia]

Not it still.

[Janan Matari]

Yeah.

[Jade]

No, and. And rightfully so. Totally understand.

[Kia]

But I'm saying that with love. I'm saying that as someone who has a love for Brandy, something is not right.

[Jade]

Yeah. Something is a. Something is a miss. And I. And I really strongly believe that it is due to Sonia, that wig and. And Willie Ray Senior as well.

[Kia]

We can play.

[Jade]

I'm doing a plug. I'm doing a plug in. Okay, there we go.

[Kia]

99.

[Jade]

I just, just learned what happened with Ray J over Thanksgiving. And I said, I just learned that too, sis. And I said, that's troublesome. That's troubling to my.

[Kia]

But there's something wrong there. It's something.

[Jade]

Yeah. The whole thing, the whole situation is very un.

[Kia]

And addiction is a real thing. And y' all like to play. Enjoy.

[Jade]

Y' all like to play.

[Kia]

This is very serious.

[Jade]

And I, you know, you all have heard me say on multiple occasions, Ray J is one of the best things to ever happen to television. And I don't divert from that. But also, that young man is unwell.

[Kia]

Something is not right.

[Jade]

And. And we need. We need. We need to get to the bottom of all of this.

[Kia]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. We gotta do it. We gotta do it. I'm gonna ask you this, and then.

[Jade]

We can go to the petty P. Yes, ma'.

[Kia]

Am. Maybe we could talk about it the next time we record. Now, are you going to watch.

[Jade]

50S.

[Kia]

Latest documentary down to the Netflix.

[Jade]

Okay, so listen here.

All right?

XD remind. He said it again today. Recording, he goes, you called Puffy a murderer on the very first episode of Two Guys and a Girl that we ever, ever recorded.

12 years ago. 12 years ago. And let me tell you, that was not the start of my campaign. I don't know. That was just the first time I had a microphone to my mouth about it.

[Kia]

That's correct.

[Jade]

I. Okay, the question. Am I gonna watch it? Probably, yeah. Because I wasn't gonna watch any of the docs.

[Kia]

I haven't watched it yet, but I don't.

[Jade]

It has to be done well, because I'm gonna tell you all, problematic as he may be.

I must. I must applaud Curtis Jackson.

[Kia]

Gotta give him his grace.

[Jade]

For his stick to itiveness.

[Kia]

Tenacious.

[Jade]

Okay, Because y' all know when I have beef. It's a short list, but it's potent, right? The people that I've told you all about, they are here to stay. It's strong. I already I told. I pray to. To God and said, God, if I see this T. Fontaine in these streets.

[Janan Matari]

I busting them kneecaps out.

[Kia]

Hear me?

[Jade]

Okay? God said, say less. You'll never see that again. But you know, he.

[Kia]

He works that way. He like copy. Don't say less. Don't.

[Jade]

You told me what you. Listen, you used to tell your parents what you was about.

[Kia]

I.

[Jade]

So if you telling me, I just gotta make it.

[Kia]

You know what? That's that I knew That I didn't KN that copy. You even got to tell me. I've been knew. I knew that.

[Jade]

But Curtis, Curtis said I hate this with my whole ass and I'm going to, I'm going to play the longest game.

[Janan Matari]

I'm sorry.

[Jade]

So it's not funny. It's not funny. But it's also, it's, it's just, I, I, I applaud. I applaud. Yes, I'm going to watch is something to be studied.

[Kia]

I think it is. And I want to make sure because.

[Jade]

That'S another one who's fully unwell. Let's be clear.

[Kia]

Yes, I want to watch it in a space and time where I have no other distractions and I can sit.

[Jade]

And literally take it in. Because I'm gonna have to pause. I'm gonna have. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I'm gonna have to take a minute. But I do, I do, I am gonna watch it because again, this, this feud between 50 and, and puff started because of, because 50 had a diss track or a verse on a, on a diss track or whatever you want to call it, where he called out Puffy being an alleged murderer.

Of, of Biggie and like this whole narrative of my best friend, my best friend, my best friend.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

And so, you know, there are things in there that are to be noted that show the, the, the, the nefarious nature that he has, such as making this man's family in a state pay for his own funeral while being out here spreading the gospel that that is his very best friend on the entire planet. Or even there's been interviews and interviews respons surfacing where let's be clear, we know people always come out the woodworks and they love to say so. But also a lot of these things are valid because he was a menacing person who used to threaten people. And so now things are being said about, you know, Biggie was not supposed to be, he was supposed to be going to London and Puff is the one who held him there and so forth and so on. So yeah, I'm gonna watch it because I feel vindicated and also.

And you know, and I'm nosy, you know, and you know, this is a huge part of our growing up and our culture. And so I'm, I'm not gonna lie and say I'm not gonna watch it. I don't know when, but I'm going to watch it. And again, I'm also, I'm just impressed. I'm impressed. I like, I, I'm like God, let me hold a grudge like that.

[Kia]

Oh, 50 is a master class in and sustaining a beef.

[Jade]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Kia]

I mean, at no expense. You know what I'm saying? I mean, he'll. He'll go through. I mean, spare. He'll. He'll spare no expense is what I meant to say.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Like, it's like, you know, this is. It's really something. And so we'll. We'll reconvene after you watch it. After I watch it. Maybe we'll chat about it. Maybe we'll discuss. Yeah, but I was curious. I just was curious if you were going to get into it.

[Jade]

I think. I think we. I think we should. And maybe, Maybe. Maybe we discuss.

[Kia]

Yeah.

[Jade]

On Patreon.

[Kia]

Perf McGurve, you want to do the petty peas? Yeah.

[Jade]

Let's move on to these petty peeves. We're giving y' all a very long episode.

[Kia]

Come on. And I know because we missed one. So this is. Y' all gotta double makeup.

[Jade]

Yeah. And the holidays coming. So, you know, but.

[Kia]

All right.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Jade]

Let's move on to these petty peeves.

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[Jade]

Oh, buen noche. It's time for the petty peeves. And I'm ready to be particularly petty. I've got two. All right, first one. Just a quick question. When did y' all stop covering your mouths in public? When you yawned. Yawn. I was taught.

[Kia]

Oh, my gosh. Yawns.

[Jade]

To cover my mouth when I yawn. If I'm in public. No, no one wants to see the caverns about.

[Kia]

We don't need to see your tonsils or your feelings. That's nothing.

[Jade]

The little dangly. We don't want to look at all of that like your silver teeth.

[Kia]

To Yourself.

[Janan Matari]

That's true.

[Jade]

Yeah. Like, cover your mouth, then you're breathing all your breath. Breath.

My second petty beef.

Costco. I love you all. I love you deep down to the sea. Costco is really part of my family.

[Kia]

Yeah. And they on the right side.

[Jade]

And they on the right side of things. You all stood where you needed to stand when everybody else was on business. Flimsy, okay? Flimsy. That's why you. Anyway.

But Costco, girl, y' all did something to those muffins, okay? The muffins are different. They're smaller and they're dry. And I don't know if they changed. Who's making the muffins? The recipe.

But the muffins are not muffining like they once did. They are. They are. Are disappointing. And so. And let me tell you something. Don't sleep on Costco's little bakery, okay? Their sheet cakes, their.

Ciabatta bread there.

Shot Costco she cake will suffice for any birthday. Anything deserved to be tasty.

[Kia]

Any occasion, okay? Like graduation, baby shower. Let's do. Just run down and get cake.

[Jade]

You get you. And it's. And it's inexpensive. It does the job when you need to cut a bunch of. A bunch of slices of cake. A Costco she cake will do you right every time. Throw some berries on the side and get.

[Kia]

Never let you down.

[Jade]

But I don't know what the y' all did.

To the muffins, but they are not good anymore. They also got rid of their recycle bags. Bags. Oh. Noah went with me to Costco. It was a hellish experience. She wanted something every five minutes. And then she condemned me for wanting something every five minutes. I was like, oh, a soft serve maker. She was like, no, mama.

[Kia]

So.

[Jade]

But then this goes against two hot dogs. Y' all also bring the Italian sausage back.

[Kia]

That's true. That is. That I can get.

[Jade]

Besides, why'd y' all get rid of the Italian sausage with the peppers and onions?

[Kia]

We don't talk enough about how Costco, you know, you can get you some eats down to the Costco, too, right?

[Jade]

I used to be busy on that Italian sausage with those peppers.

[Kia]

I mean, sausage and peppers.

[Jade]

Okay. A little bit of relish, a little bit of mustard.

[Kia]

Never miss Pepsi.

[Jade]

Not anymore.

[Kia]

Boycott.

[Jade]

But at the time, I would have me a cold Pepsi and an Italian sausage, and it was everything that I needed in life. So, Costco, I need you to go back to the natural order of things, okay?

[Kia]

I don't know why they like to change stuff. When did Nobody ask them to change nothing. Yeah.

[Jade]

Take that chicken bake back. Give me my Italian sausage. Give me my Italian sausage. So that's it for my petty, please. That's it.

[Kia]

Some things don't need to be new.

[Jade]

No. Restore the natural order of things. We used to be a proper country.

What's your petty peeve this week?

[Kia]

Oh, gosh.

I have to go to the eye doctor tomorrow. Yeah. So I hate that for me. I'm sorry, I hate, hate the eye.

[Jade]

Doctor like some people hate the dentist.

[Kia]

Really?

[Jade]

What is it?

[Kia]

How do you, it is, it, it is, it challenges. I, I, like, I, I can't see and I shame myself for it. Like, you know, it challenges the perfectionist because I can't see. I get it wrong.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

Can you see?

[Jade]

You see right there. You just did it.

[Kia]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jade]

You did not get it wrong. You don't control your eyes.

[Kia]

That's what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm, I'm sharing, hearing the dysfunction. I'm working through it. So I'm just saying, okay, okay. I don't like to go to the eye doctor, and I know that I'm going to have to go then, and, and so I'm just trying to prepare myself for that. But I just, I think more broadly, my petty peeve is, why don't they allow us? I, I, I'm very, you know, I'm looking at my Flex spending account and you know the pressure that comes every year where you got to spin your joint down. It's my money.

[Janan Matari]

Money.

[Kia]

Like, I just thought, why don't they let us roll it over?

[Jade]

J.G. wentworth. Like, what's your problems?

[Kia]

What's the problem? It's my money. What you mean I can't take it into 2020?

[Jade]

I need to look at that. Now, that's on your insurance, right?

[Kia]

Yes. It's nonsensical. It would be different if it was some other somebody else's money that I was using. But this is my money. This is money y' all took out of my check. So I ought to be able to, to spend it at my leisure.

[Jade]

This is what you took out of my husband's check. And so I should be able to spend it at my leisure.

[Janan Matari]

That's right.

[Kia]

Period.

[Jade]

Oh, man.

[Kia]

So I hate that. So that's just, and I, I mean, I'm sure, you know, just, I just feel like it points to how flawed the health care system is and how everything is all messed up because it's just like, what do you mean? It's my money. It's mine. It's not. How are you going to tell me how you gonna put me on the time clock to spend the money that's mine?

[Jade]

I'm telling you, this scam. This is a scam. Free my Luigi. Thank you.

[Kia]

He about to get free. He about to get on.

[Jade]

Was reading through. I was reading through the docket, honey.

[Kia]

Okay?

[Jade]

I was reading through and they were like, first and foremost, the cops who detained him and pulled up on him in the Pennsylvania. Like, there's many things here. Okay? Release the Epstein file. Let me stop.

All of it. Honestly, I can't wait for the great reckoning, the great unfolding. Like, I'm just like, I'm ready for the earth to open up and just be like, all right, swallow. Like, I'm just ready. Like, come on, get them. Get them. Dinosaurs, all right. Ice age.

[Kia]

They coming back.

[Jade]

Are they trying to bring dinosaurs back? The woolly mammoth? Yeah, I'm dead ass. They are they trying to bring the woolly mammoth back. They found some. Anyway, thank you for listening to this episode of Getting Grown, because you know, I will. You know, I'll start going.

[Kia]

Don't get J activated.

[Jade]

Don't get me started on the dinosaurs, all right? The ones in government and the ones from prehistoric times. Neither one.

[Kia]

Both.

[Jade]

Okay, Both. All right. One evil one. I don't know. But, you know, the T. Rex might have had a bad narrative. They might. You know, I feel like his enemies were the ones who told. Told his personality might have been a gentle giant.

[Kia]

T. Rex is like, oh, you see how they put me in it? I. I wasn't even on.

[Jade]

Like, I was just born with these claws. I can't do nothing about that.

[Kia]

How much did I really get into.

[Jade]

With these little itty bitty hands? What with these itty bitty hairs and these short, like, I try my. Get out of here. I want I should write a story about the misunderstood T. Rex.

[Kia]

T. Rex over here. Like, you see. You see how rumors get started? You see, I've been over here minding my business with my hands in my pocket pockets, villainizing me for billions of years, telling the whole world that I was destroying everything. And all I've ever done is mind my business.

[Jade]

I'm tell you who. I'm telling y' all the real problems with the philosophers, okay? Those were the real. Anyway, again, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Getting Grown. We are so grateful for you all. You made it all the way to the end. This is a great super size episode with an incredible guest. Thank you, Janan, for coming. Oh, yes. Huh.

[Kia]

We had. We also needed to tell y' all that the Engram merch shop is open and there's some exclusive. If you are a member of our Patreon, you might also want to pay attention to what's going on over there because there's something special. Just a page.

[Jade]

Okay. Check out the page.

[Kia]

Okay.

[Jade]

Check out the site. Make sure you check out all the links in the description box. Get you. Get your b. All the babies in your life. A copy of everything grows into those garden. Make sure you all are checking out all of the links for, for, for the different initiatives that we've. That we've shouted out. For how we can help those within our community as well and how you can continue to support the people of Palestine, people of Sudan and so forth and so on. So thank you all for, for tuning in with us every single week. We are looking forward to this holiday break coming up. All right. But don't worry, we still have things coming for you all, so make sure you stick right beside us. We love you very much. And sis, take them out and tell them what to do.

[Kia]

Thank y' all so much for everything. We're super grateful for. You make sure that you're taking care of yourself.

First and foremost by attending to your mental health. Unplugging, moisturizing your mind. And you do that by minding your business. Okay. Worrying about yourself.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

Checking in with yourself. Putting on your. Putting on your breathing apparatus before you try to help somebody else. That's how you keep yourself.

[Jade]

Exactly.

[Kia]

Okay. Don't let them get nothing on you. And second, you want to make sure that you're moisturizing your insides. We talked about how dry it is outside and just everywhere we have to keep our bodies moisturized. And that's. You do that by drinking as much water as you can every day.

[Jade]

Yes.

[Kia]

And finally, you want to moisturize your skin because it's your largest organ.

[Jade]

Yeah.

[Kia]

Okay. It's how you make sure that you get. You stay tight and supple and aging like black people out here because you're black. Crack will crack if it's dry. Now, don't say we didn't tell you.

[Jade]

We told you.

[Janan Matari]

Ta ta.

[Kia]

Take care, y'. All. Bye.

No matter what's on your plate or your mind, this holiday season, the UPS store wants to help with our pack and ship guarantee. We're helping gifts arrive safely to guarantee more. They know me so well.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Picture perfect gift.

[Kia]

We're helping guarantee more smiles with our Pack and Ship guarantee. If we pack it and ship it, we guarantee it, your items arrive safe or your money back. Stop by your local the UPS Store for holiday help shipping holiday gifts. Visit theupsstore.com guarantee for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details.