Ep. 334: Working with People Who Don't GTD

Episode Overview

Podcast: Getting Things Done
Episode: Ep. 334: Working with People Who Don't GTD
Host: John Forrester
Guests/Participants: Thais Codinho, Mark (project manager/Scrum master), Carrie, Joseph, others
Date: October 29, 2025

This episode of the Getting Things Done podcast centers on the perennial challenge of applying GTD principles in environments where others aren’t familiar with the methodology, particularly in the workplace. Listeners share their experiences and ask for advice on influencing teams, balancing GTD with real-world challenges (like retirement or career transitions), and implementing personal productivity strategies in less-than-ideal circumstances.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Influencing Others to Use GTD in the Workplace

[04:21–11:04]

Mark’s Situation: Mark, a Scrum master, is trying to subtly introduce and integrate GTD principles into a large, established organization where he's not in a formal leadership role.
- He observes that most colleagues write annual goals and shelve them until year-end, rarely keeping actionable steps in focus.
- He's interested in fostering better adoption without being overly “preachy” or directive.
Host’s Advice:
- Lead by Example: The most sustainable way to influence is to “demonstrate relaxed productivity” and let people notice the resulting calm and effectiveness.
  - Quote (John Forrester, 06:53):
    “If other people see you demonstrating relaxed productivity, they're going to say, ‘What's your secret?’”
- Identify Pain Points: Thais suggests starting with people's challenges, asking open questions in 1-to-1s such as “What’s overwhelming you right now?” as an entry point for GTD concepts.
  - Quote (Thais Codinho, 09:29):
    “Making those questions, you can introduce small GTD practices to help them to ease those burdens. You don't have to teach the full methodology all at once.”
Carrie’s Perspective: As a newer adopter, Carrie notes the value in normalizing the struggle and the need for “brain space” among knowledge workers. She wonders if many people simply don’t realize how much hidden cognitive load they’re carrying.

2. Challenges in Nonprofit/Non-Hierarchical Environments

[12:30–22:14]

Mark reflects on the cultural differences in a nonprofit church organization (vs. his prior work in banking), noting a reduced focus on strict accountability or financial performance.
- Mistakes are sometimes met with a casual “my bad” rather than serious consequences—a big shift for him.
He hopes to leave a legacy by helping colleagues “at least be aware” of GTD principles before he retires.
Host’s Observations:
- Even in retirement, many find GTD as useful as ever; projects and organization continue in a non-job context.
- Influence is often greater than assumed: “I suspect that you've had more influence than you're giving yourself credit for...”

3. GTD as a Personal and Interpersonal Life Skill

[17:37–19:10]

Carrie’s Reflection: GTD is a “life skill,” not just a productivity tool. As people internalize GTD and model its benefits, a ripple effect can foster better functioning within teams and organizations.
- Quote (Carrie, 19:07): “I feel like it’s a life. Life skill. Like a life. A human skill.”
Governance and Authority: John explores whether Mark’s difficulties are less about his influence skills, and more about the structure (or lack thereof) within his organization.

4. Practical GTD Strategies for Team Engagement

[09:29–10:23, summary]

Start with simple interventions—help colleagues capture their “open loops” (things on their mind), clarify next actions, and gradually introduce GTD tools where they solve immediate problems.
Maintain balance: personalize introductions and be mindful of organizational culture or readiness.

5. Evangelizing GTD and Dealing With Resistance

[23:51–24:38]

Joseph describes the “evangelist’s dilemma”: excitement leads to sharing with many, but few people adopt GTD completely, if at all.
- Quote (Joseph, 23:51):
  “I’ll tell, you know, 50 people about it, and, like, one person will be interested, and even that one person will only, like, do half of it...”
The group agrees it’s common for productivity “evangelism” to fall flat if people aren’t yet ready for a change or don’t see the relevance.

6. Making Space for Reflection vs. Just Doing

[24:38–32:13]

Joseph is attempting a career change while working full-time and balancing family demands—leading to “squeezed” time for reviews and higher-horizon reflection. He sometimes skips annual or monthly reviews to focus on immediate tasks.
- Host and Thais Suggest:
  - Continually capture everything—career change generates a lot of mental noise.
  - Use the Horizons of Focus to make sure that immediate steps are in alignment with long-term values and goals.
    - Quote (Thais, 27:03):
      “When you think about your career, it often requires big-picture thinking. So the model of horizontal focus can help you align your next steps with your long-term vision.”
  - If a review task keeps coming up in your mind—even if you think it’s not crucial—there’s likely “something to look at.”
    - Quote (John, 31:39):
      “Even if it doesn’t create any value other than it gets it off your mind, you’ll have saved [mental energy]...”
Discussion about balancing over-planning vs. action (“my professional weekly review takes me three hours...”). Finding the right balance is key—and culturally, some environments frown on being “over-organized.”

7. Storing and Processing Mind Maps

[35:12–39:19]

Carrie, a new practitioner, asks about handling mind maps: How do you organize and retrieve a growing collection of mind maps generated as part of organizing thoughts?
Advice from John:
- Treat mind maps as meeting notes: after mapping, “process” them—extract next actions, mark as projects if appropriate, file mind map in meaningful locations (possibly with project support materials).
  - Quote (John, 37:50):
    “If you had a meeting with yourself... and you took meeting notes as a mind map... we process those as if they landed in our inbox.”
- "Organized means things are where they have meaning for you." A mind map about a topic belongs wherever materials for that topic live—not necessarily lumped with all mind maps.
Carrie’s Insight: “I haven’t finished the thinking on the mind maps. I think I’m done after I’ve mind mapped, but I need to then look at the mind map and say, are there any additional actions, next actions based on this mind map?” (38:23)

8. Living the GTD Lifecycle

[39:19–end]

GTDer’s Journey: All users go through cycles in their practice: initial inspiration, integrating practices, plateauing, revisiting resources, and rediscovering new insights.
Revisiting materials (like the GTD Connect library or Getting Things Done) often yields fresh, applicable discoveries aligned with one's current context.
- Quote (John, 39:19):
  “Many people have read Getting Things Done, you know, more than three or four times, and every time they read it, they get something new out of it.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Lead by Example (John, 06:53):
“If other people see you demonstrating relaxed productivity, they're going to say, ‘What's your secret?’”
Start Small (Thais, 09:29):
“You can introduce small GTD practices to help them ease those burdens. You don’t have to teach the full methodology all at once.”
The Evangelist’s Dilemma (Joseph, 23:51):
“I’ll tell, you know, 50 people about it, and, like, one person will be interested, and even that one person will only, like, do half of it...”
GTD as a Life Skill (Carrie, 19:07):
“I feel like it’s a life. Life skill. Like a life. A human skill.”
The Mind Keeps Bringing It Up (John, 31:47):
“People are often surprised when we say if your mind brings it up, there's something about it that you need to pay more appropriate attention to... there’s a reason your mind, which is very smart and creative, is still latching onto that.”
Organizing Mind Maps (John, 37:50):
“If you had a meeting with yourself... and you took meeting notes as a mind map... we process those as if they landed in our inbox.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

04:21 – 05:35: Mark introduces his challenge about influencing team GTD adoption
06:53 – 09:29: Host’s and Thais’ strategies: leading by example, targeting pain points
10:58 – 12:21: Carrie’s perspective on cognitive burden and “brain space”
14:56 – 16:58: Relevance of GTD for retirement and beyond
17:07 – 19:07: “GTD is a life skill”—Carrie’s reflections on ripple effects
24:38 – 31:47: Joseph’s struggle with review time vs. action; advice from John and Thais
35:12 – 38:37: Handling an ever-growing collection of mind maps; extracting value and organizing
39:19 – End: GTD Connect is a goldmine—users go through cycles as their practice evolves

Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is warm, informal, supportive, and practical—reflecting the GTD ethos of continuous improvement and generous peer learning. The host ensures participants feel heard and valued, and there’s a pervasive sense that personal productivity is a journey best shared.

Final Thoughts

This episode reassures both new and veteran GTDers that:

You can’t force productivity skills on others—change begins with your own example.
Small GTD interventions are often more effective than grand transformations.
Personal productivity practices like GTD remain relevant—whether at work, during retirement, or through big life changes.
Be patient with yourself and others; everyone is at a different point in the journey.
The GTD library and community are rich resources—revisiting them can rekindle energy and insight.

Listeners leave with concrete strategies for “working with people who don't GTD,” as well as affirmation that leading by example and incremental change are powerful tools.

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Influencing Others to Use GTD in the Workplace

[04:21–11:04]

Mark’s Situation: Mark, a Scrum master, is trying to subtly introduce and integrate GTD principles into a large, established organization where he's not in a formal leadership role.
- He observes that most colleagues write annual goals and shelve them until year-end, rarely keeping actionable steps in focus.
- He's interested in fostering better adoption without being overly “preachy” or directive.
Host’s Advice:
- Lead by Example: The most sustainable way to influence is to “demonstrate relaxed productivity” and let people notice the resulting calm and effectiveness.
  - Quote (John Forrester, 06:53):
    “If other people see you demonstrating relaxed productivity, they're going to say, ‘What's your secret?’”
- Identify Pain Points: Thais suggests starting with people's challenges, asking open questions in 1-to-1s such as “What’s overwhelming you right now?” as an entry point for GTD concepts.
  - Quote (Thais Codinho, 09:29):
    “Making those questions, you can introduce small GTD practices to help them to ease those burdens. You don't have to teach the full methodology all at once.”
Carrie’s Perspective: As a newer adopter, Carrie notes the value in normalizing the struggle and the need for “brain space” among knowledge workers. She wonders if many people simply don’t realize how much hidden cognitive load they’re carrying.

2. Challenges in Nonprofit/Non-Hierarchical Environments

[12:30–22:14]

Mark reflects on the cultural differences in a nonprofit church organization (vs. his prior work in banking), noting a reduced focus on strict accountability or financial performance.
- Mistakes are sometimes met with a casual “my bad” rather than serious consequences—a big shift for him.
He hopes to leave a legacy by helping colleagues “at least be aware” of GTD principles before he retires.
Host’s Observations:
- Even in retirement, many find GTD as useful as ever; projects and organization continue in a non-job context.
- Influence is often greater than assumed: “I suspect that you've had more influence than you're giving yourself credit for...”

3. GTD as a Personal and Interpersonal Life Skill

[17:37–19:10]

Carrie’s Reflection: GTD is a “life skill,” not just a productivity tool. As people internalize GTD and model its benefits, a ripple effect can foster better functioning within teams and organizations.
- Quote (Carrie, 19:07): “I feel like it’s a life. Life skill. Like a life. A human skill.”
Governance and Authority: John explores whether Mark’s difficulties are less about his influence skills, and more about the structure (or lack thereof) within his organization.

4. Practical GTD Strategies for Team Engagement

[09:29–10:23, summary]

Start with simple interventions—help colleagues capture their “open loops” (things on their mind), clarify next actions, and gradually introduce GTD tools where they solve immediate problems.
Maintain balance: personalize introductions and be mindful of organizational culture or readiness.

5. Evangelizing GTD and Dealing With Resistance

[23:51–24:38]

Joseph describes the “evangelist’s dilemma”: excitement leads to sharing with many, but few people adopt GTD completely, if at all.
- Quote (Joseph, 23:51):
  “I’ll tell, you know, 50 people about it, and, like, one person will be interested, and even that one person will only, like, do half of it...”
The group agrees it’s common for productivity “evangelism” to fall flat if people aren’t yet ready for a change or don’t see the relevance.

6. Making Space for Reflection vs. Just Doing

[24:38–32:13]

Joseph is attempting a career change while working full-time and balancing family demands—leading to “squeezed” time for reviews and higher-horizon reflection. He sometimes skips annual or monthly reviews to focus on immediate tasks.
- Host and Thais Suggest:
  - Continually capture everything—career change generates a lot of mental noise.
  - Use the Horizons of Focus to make sure that immediate steps are in alignment with long-term values and goals.
    - Quote (Thais, 27:03):
      “When you think about your career, it often requires big-picture thinking. So the model of horizontal focus can help you align your next steps with your long-term vision.”
  - If a review task keeps coming up in your mind—even if you think it’s not crucial—there’s likely “something to look at.”
    - Quote (John, 31:39):
      “Even if it doesn’t create any value other than it gets it off your mind, you’ll have saved [mental energy]...”
Discussion about balancing over-planning vs. action (“my professional weekly review takes me three hours...”). Finding the right balance is key—and culturally, some environments frown on being “over-organized.”

7. Storing and Processing Mind Maps

[35:12–39:19]

Carrie, a new practitioner, asks about handling mind maps: How do you organize and retrieve a growing collection of mind maps generated as part of organizing thoughts?
Advice from John:
- Treat mind maps as meeting notes: after mapping, “process” them—extract next actions, mark as projects if appropriate, file mind map in meaningful locations (possibly with project support materials).
  - Quote (John, 37:50):
    “If you had a meeting with yourself... and you took meeting notes as a mind map... we process those as if they landed in our inbox.”
- "Organized means things are where they have meaning for you." A mind map about a topic belongs wherever materials for that topic live—not necessarily lumped with all mind maps.
Carrie’s Insight: “I haven’t finished the thinking on the mind maps. I think I’m done after I’ve mind mapped, but I need to then look at the mind map and say, are there any additional actions, next actions based on this mind map?” (38:23)

8. Living the GTD Lifecycle

[39:19–end]

GTDer’s Journey: All users go through cycles in their practice: initial inspiration, integrating practices, plateauing, revisiting resources, and rediscovering new insights.
Revisiting materials (like the GTD Connect library or Getting Things Done) often yields fresh, applicable discoveries aligned with one's current context.
- Quote (John, 39:19):
  “Many people have read Getting Things Done, you know, more than three or four times, and every time they read it, they get something new out of it.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Lead by Example (John, 06:53):
“If other people see you demonstrating relaxed productivity, they're going to say, ‘What's your secret?’”
Start Small (Thais, 09:29):
“You can introduce small GTD practices to help them ease those burdens. You don’t have to teach the full methodology all at once.”
The Evangelist’s Dilemma (Joseph, 23:51):
“I’ll tell, you know, 50 people about it, and, like, one person will be interested, and even that one person will only, like, do half of it...”
GTD as a Life Skill (Carrie, 19:07):
“I feel like it’s a life. Life skill. Like a life. A human skill.”
The Mind Keeps Bringing It Up (John, 31:47):
“People are often surprised when we say if your mind brings it up, there's something about it that you need to pay more appropriate attention to... there’s a reason your mind, which is very smart and creative, is still latching onto that.”
Organizing Mind Maps (John, 37:50):
“If you had a meeting with yourself... and you took meeting notes as a mind map... we process those as if they landed in our inbox.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

04:21 – 05:35: Mark introduces his challenge about influencing team GTD adoption
06:53 – 09:29: Host’s and Thais’ strategies: leading by example, targeting pain points
10:58 – 12:21: Carrie’s perspective on cognitive burden and “brain space”
14:56 – 16:58: Relevance of GTD for retirement and beyond
17:07 – 19:07: “GTD is a life skill”—Carrie’s reflections on ripple effects
24:38 – 31:47: Joseph’s struggle with review time vs. action; advice from John and Thais
35:12 – 38:37: Handling an ever-growing collection of mind maps; extracting value and organizing
39:19 – End: GTD Connect is a goldmine—users go through cycles as their practice evolves

Tone & Atmosphere

Final Thoughts

This episode reassures both new and veteran GTDers that:

You can’t force productivity skills on others—change begins with your own example.
Small GTD interventions are often more effective than grand transformations.
Personal productivity practices like GTD remain relevant—whether at work, during retirement, or through big life changes.
Be patient with yourself and others; everyone is at a different point in the journey.
The GTD library and community are rich resources—revisiting them can rekindle energy and insight.

Listeners leave with concrete strategies for “working with people who don't GTD,” as well as affirmation that leading by example and incremental change are powerful tools.

wavePod

Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Influencing Others to Use GTD in the Workplace

2. Challenges in Nonprofit/Non-Hierarchical Environments

3. GTD as a Personal and Interpersonal Life Skill

4. Practical GTD Strategies for Team Engagement

5. Evangelizing GTD and Dealing With Resistance

6. Making Space for Reflection vs. Just Doing

7. Storing and Processing Mind Maps

8. Living the GTD Lifecycle

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Atmosphere

Final Thoughts

Transcript

Summary

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Influencing Others to Use GTD in the Workplace

2. Challenges in Nonprofit/Non-Hierarchical Environments

3. GTD as a Personal and Interpersonal Life Skill

4. Practical GTD Strategies for Team Engagement

5. Evangelizing GTD and Dealing With Resistance

6. Making Space for Reflection vs. Just Doing

7. Storing and Processing Mind Maps

8. Living the GTD Lifecycle

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Important Segments

Tone & Atmosphere

Final Thoughts