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- [00:10]
David Allen
Hi, everybody. David Allen here with somebody I'm just meeting on screen right now because I haven't met face to face. But this is one of those wonderfully serendipitous things that happens in the universe out there, which I love. I love. The serendipity of the universe is, you know, God has a GPS program that's just can beat everything. Okay, you now need to meet here. You know, I need to go over here and I got an email from a very close friend of ours who's been a very good friend for decades actually with us, Rick Cantor. And Rick was just in a Nordstrom somewhere in Northern California or wherever, and he said he met, he met this guy. So I'm going to actually read from Rick's email to me. So hang on, Dan.
- [00:54]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, sure.
- [00:55]
David Allen
All right. And Rick said pure serendipity had me meet a brilliant young man in Nordstrom, Dr. Dan Pardee, who has used his PhD to create human OS and he gives the website a total wellness site. He's a handsome, charming father of two young babies who is one of those people you can tell is destined to help humans thrive and will do it effortlessly and with endless charisma. Well, I mean, you know, come on. And you know, my friend Rick does not say things like that lightly. So there's a drum roll, you know. Okay, Dan, I'm blushing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the folks listening to this are, you know, primarily GTD esque people interested in our work, etc. So I'm going to hit the tennis ball over the fence to you and say, okay, what would you like the world listening and watching this to know about Dan Pardee?
- [01:56]
Dan Pardee
Well, first I'll say that serendipity is really a thing. And that meeting with Rick, you know, I went to go pick up some pants and next thing I know I was in a 45 minute conversation with him and we were just so engaged. Wonderful guy. And so it's really great to connect with you, Dave. I have been interested in health my whole life. It's become really a part of my personal mission to see if I can contribute in some meaningful ways. I describe my personal mission as creating high value, low cost tools and strategies that help people perform at their best. And so I been doing a lot of speaking, connecting the relationship between productivity and how you show up, the version of you that shows up every day and your health. And I have in my work in sleep science, my PhD work, and in that I was looking a lot at the connection between if you just miss a little Bit of sleep. How does your brain perform the next day? And how does that change things like executive functioning, information processing, and decision making? And it does so in a very, very interesting way. I love talking about it. But then also years ago, I had done work with Dean Ornish, and we were doing a multifactorial program to help people with prostate cancer. And that made an indelible impression on me. So how can we tie together a bunch of different aspects of lifestyle into something that people can. All the different things that have an effect tie that together to help people affect their pattern of living in a favorable way? And that's my work with human os. And I have been doing this for several years now. And I wake up every day just as motivated as I was the day I started. And so I think I'm doing the right thing.
- [03:49]
David Allen
Yay.
- [03:49]
GTD Connect Moderator
Good for you.
- [03:50]
David Allen
And what got you into sleep? Why?
- [03:56]
Dan Pardee
Speaking of serendipity, I was working for a genomics company that was. Had raised $175 million. And we were doing all this really exciting work mining the human genome, trying to sequence it for the very first time. Early 2000s. Well, that company went out of business.
- [04:15]
David Allen
This is pre 23andMe, right?
- [04:18]
Dan Pardee
Yeah. This is early on, when the human genome hadn't even been sequenced yet. So it was a very exciting time. But the company did go out of business because it was hard to create a business model that was sustainable. All 33 companies in the space at the time went out of business, and all the talent was absorbed into pharma. And that's where I headed. So through a connection, somebody said, well, there's this great company called Orphan Medical. They're making medications for rare disorders, and they're working in narcolepsy right now. And I met the company, I was hired, and I knew nothing about sleep, nothing about narcolepsy or the medication, but I fell in love with it really quickly. Sleep is just the most fascinating window into our world and our body and how it works. And so the hardest decision I'd have to make every year was going to the associated Professional Sleep Society meeting, which is the big sleep meeting in the United States, and then deciding what track to go on. Sleep immunity, sleep in the brain.
- [05:18]
David Allen
And are people falling asleep in these lectures? Sorry, I couldn't. Couldn't resist.
- [05:24]
Dan Pardee
Well, you know Bill Dement, who is considered the godfather of sleep medicine in the United States. He founded the first sleep clinic at Stanford, and he taught the most popular class at Stanford, which is a freshman class on sleep. And he had Half the lights off in the room. And he said, if anybody needs to take a nap or sleep during my class, I'll take it as a compliment that you're listening to the importance of my message.
- [05:49]
David Allen
That's so funny. You know, I read, you know, Tony Schwartz is a friend that. I read Tony's book, you know, a while ago about, you know, his energy work. And he was mentioning, hey, you know, how powerful the power nap was, you know, and, you know, best time to do it the afternoon, etc. And since then, you know, Catherine and I taking power naps whenever we can afford to do that almost every day. You know, that's great. Wonderful. And I sleep as long as I can. That's why, you know, I do my GTD practice the night before is to look at the hard landscape for the next day to see how long I can sleep in the morning. So it's nice to. It's nice. I thought I was just lazy, but now I'm finding out I'm smart. No, that's just a very cool, creative thing to do.
- [06:30]
Dan Pardee
Yeah. Well, you know, you mentioned something that's very. It's actually been a big societal shift, the perception that sleeping long, sleeping in, is laziness. So if you look at, you know, Bill Clinton, for instance, when he was inaugurated, he said, I'm going to stay up day and night working for this country, which was representative of the feeling of the time, which is that if you're serious about your work, you're not going to let sleep stand in the way. And that had a lot to do with the fact that sleep science is really not that old. And in the last 30 years, it's really exploded in popularity. There's a lot more books on it, people speaking about it, and the recognition that we are getting less as a society. It's harder to get sleep for a variety of different reasons, and also that it's sort of the opposite of what was thought of before. If you're a serious professional, you actually get the sleep that you need so that you can perform at your best during the day. So there's a difference now between sort of length of time that you're up versus the quality of time of your awake hours.
- [07:27]
David Allen
Okay, well, let me shift back around to say, your intersection with GTD and our stuff. So just for people listening here, how come we're talking and how come, you know, Rick said, you know, you guys just suddenly talked about, you know, the connection with me and gtd, and that was a big kind of, aha. Serendipitous Aha. That GTD had been important for you. So talk to me, talk to us about your intersection with this work.
- [07:58]
Dan Pardee
Well, I think that I can say in all honesty that there's probably no book that's had a greater impact on my life because I have implemented the principles since learning them every day since that time in the mid 2000s when I was exposed to them for the first time.
- [08:16]
David Allen
How did you get exposed to it? Did you just run across it in the airport?
- [08:20]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, I bought the book. It was upon a recommendation from a friend and I read it again and again and I studied it, took notes. I didn't just comb through it, but it just made so much sense. And since that time, it's so funny. I was the person at work when I was working at the pharmaceutical company that I mentioned that would help people out with their tasks. So I probably had 10 different meetings with different people that I would show them how I would organize my work. And when I started my company, I knew that it was a productivity challenge, essentially. So how are we going to be as productive per person in the company as possible? And implementing those principles has everything to do with what we've been able to achieve so far. Our goal is how can we take our small company of six people, but make it feel like it's a 12 or 18 person company in terms of what we're getting out there? And we all take it very seriously. Yeah.
- [09:28]
David Allen
And so do you do weekly reviews?
- [09:31]
Dan Pardee
We do so on Fridays. So on Monday morning I will review what we had done in the previously weekly review and then I'll look at what's come in over the weekend, do I still agree with my Friday self, and I'll connect with everybody on the team so that they can express their goals for the week. Then what I do is I use a tool called Workflowy. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but it's my favorite productivity tool that I've ever used. And it has everything to do with how simple it is. It's essentially a very fast way to collapse lists. So you can indent lists an infinite amount. And so I will order what I want to do the night before in order of priority, starting with things that I can clear off in less than, usually less than 10 minutes. And then I will kind of get into more of the bigger projects. And what's so nice about that is that, you know, things are moving in and out of list regularly. But even within a day, my organization will change once it confronts the Reality of the world. So whatever comes in reacting to that. Sometimes based off of how I feel or my state, I might have. I might be at that point in my list where I'm meant to write on something scientific, but my brain is not in that state for whatever reason. So then I move to things that I can do with, you know, less brain power in that moment. So I just keep the productivity wheel churning. And I've really coached everybody on my team to try to do the same. And I think the more that you can delineate a big project into those individual steps, somehow your to do list just becomes fun because just checking it all off just feels really good.
- [11:21]
David Allen
And how did people relate to this methodology and your encouragement in whatever form that took for them to play with it in the same way? And do they still. Do they all practice this? Do you guys coach each other? How does that still work as a team?
- [11:40]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, I think that, you know, what I've noticed is that for everybody on a team, there's a moment where you recognize the power of that type of system for yourself versus, okay, this is how we're doing it. And this is just our process to. Okay, this is a really beneficial thing. And it's amazing how I've seen over time people that I've worked with, people can drift away from the system and then getting them back into it is refreshing and feels really good again. And so it can take a couple of attempts to get this system really locked in, but then I think people become lifetime advocates of it because there's really no better system than I've identified. You know, everything is now, next, someday, and it just works. So we use workflowy sort of for our personal tasks and then something called asana, which is better for our team tasks. And the combination of both, you know, we've, you know, I think one thing that I've realized is that it's good to be somewhat flexible with your system. So when our team was smaller, everybody just maintaining team tasks and email was the thing to do. As we've grown a little bit, then having, you know, implementing Asana again, where people can see, visibly see the. Each other's tasks, we do that in a very specific way too. We only put tasks that we're actually working on into that system so that it doesn't get cluttered with too much things to look at.
- [13:11]
David Allen
Yeah, you know, I've run across that. That issue with Azana and, and any kind of a group thing it's called, you have to. You have to have a pretty Rigorous agreement about the heuristic of how you work it, what goes on it, at what level of granularity. And everybody has to play like a CRM, you know, if you don't, you know, then the system doesn't work. There's no system.
- [13:33]
Dan Pardee
Right.
- [13:34]
David Allen
It's not really an intact system. So I'd be curious how you matured yourself into something that worked that way.
- [13:42]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, well, what we're working with now is we have a project called Sprint. Sprint can contain really anything that you're working on, and it's what we're trying to achieve in the next month or so. But we also try to limit the amount of tasks in that project per person to about five or 10. So you have an idea of what you're working on now those are then ordered in terms of priority from top to bottom. And then you might have a few things that you might be working on next. Because oftentimes so many projects, you know, you work on a little bit at a time, you come to an impasse where you need other person's input or for whatever reason you need to put that down for a moment and then you know, what is the things that you want to work on next. But having that clarity sort of pre cogitated for you by you think is I think that people trying to decide what to do is probably one of the biggest productivity impediments that there is. And so consciously taking the time to structure what you want to work on is a hugely beneficial thing.
- [14:45]
David Allen
Yeah, very cool. So let me take another tack here. For 35 years, I've always hoped, wished, wondered whether somebody would show up and say, David, you know, let's just wire people's brains up to whatever machinery is the current best machinery to see what's going on in your head and do a before mind sweep and after mine sweep view. And nobody has ever done that yet. So Dan, come on, help me out with your scientific approach. I would think somebody, I mean, you seem to have at least an anecdotal relationship between GTD and productivity and health.
- [15:32]
Dan Pardee
Yes.
- [15:34]
David Allen
Where are the. How can we get some better data about any of this?
- [15:38]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, well, that's actually really. I've never thought about that. But you know, as I alluded to earlier, a lot of what we do is talking about another aspect of productivity, which is how do you put your mind in an, in an optimal state so that you're showing up as your best self day after day. And only rarely do I go into some of the ways to then harness that good Mental energy and level of arousal into what are some productivity tactics that we have. But we try to focus a lot more on how do you get your body to be that high functioning machine day in and day out. But if you're ready to go and you don't have organization to your system, then you know all that energy is going to be wasted. So yeah, I think that that would be very doable and it could have everything to do with the way that you could do it is just look to see a task organization and task completion within a group of people. So you know, you could do some research with like let's say an asana and see how many things are being clicked off in two different groups at the same company. One that's using gtd, one that's not. And I think I know who would win.
- [16:49]
David Allen
Yeah, the problem is we could never do an AB split. We've tried for years to try to can we have somebody doesn't know anything about GTD versus a group that does and see and compare the results. But you know, once you learn this stuff, you can't help but share it with anybody. And they're also, there are so many other variables that are going to affect people's productivity. But in any case anyway, that was just sort of a dream I thought I'd throw out to you since you're you sitting on that edge of the productivity game as well as the scientific side of how well our brain functions, you know.
- [17:25]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny too, when I, when I think about it, I think that modern health is actually in large part an organizational challenge too. So if you have good organizational skills, if you think about trying to affect your pattern of living, that is going to be things like prioritization, figuring out timing of your day, sharpening the saw and trying to increase your capacity for better self care. A lot of it comes down to managing the project of you, your body and then figuring out even the things that matter to you most so that you stay focused and don't let other things distract you from that. And you know, for me I feel like the perspective of long term health consequences we know from a behavioral perspective, while we all care about them, they're pretty poor at actually motivating us to do things in that minute, in that moment today. And we call that delayed discounting. So you discount the future aspect of something for an immediate reward. And so the more that you can tether how you're performing within a day to your health. If I, for example, if I have this smoothie or I do some exercise, I'm going to perform better at that meeting today. I'm going to write a better email. I'm going to make myself better at my day and my day easier for me. Then there are a lot more triggers to get you to do those things now. And so you end up with this circular energy that has immediate feedback. And that I think might be the secret sauce of being healthy today because we all have so much time pressure. And so that mental tether of taking care of myself is taking care of my work is sort of like the sleep analogy that we're talking about earlier. Instead of putting that stuff off because you're serious about business, you're actually embracing it and engaging with it because you're serious about your work.
- [19:21]
GTD Connect Moderator
Yeah.
- [19:21]
David Allen
I mean, it's fascinating, all the new work. I mean, Charles Duhig, you know, the power of habit, BJ Foggs, you know, tiny habits, you know, all that's great stuff, you know, and you know, like now, just because, you know, BJ's sort of encouragement, you know, before I take a shower, I try to do some level of anaerobic activity, you know.
- [19:42]
Dan Pardee
Yeah.
- [19:42]
David Allen
So in order to deserve my shower, I have to go do some deep dip push ups.
- [19:48]
Dan Pardee
Yeah.
- [19:49]
David Allen
In order to do that. And you know, and that started to happen and you know, behind me I keep, you know, my, the vitamins and things I should be taking that are right in front of my face. If they weren't there, I would ignore them like crazy. So it's really a lot about what do you put in front of the door?
- [20:04]
Dan Pardee
Yes.
- [20:07]
David Allen
So you don't forget it when you walk out of the house. So the same idea of structuring your life in those sorts of ways.
- [20:16]
Dan Pardee
Ambient signal. And going back to the productivity list, I will print out my main tasks every week so that those are visible without me having to go and find them. I just can't help but run into them because they're in a place where I can see them. And so what do you do?
- [20:34]
David Allen
What do you do with the paper? Do you put that in front of you? Do you, do you, do you stick it on your screen? What do you do with that to make that visible to you?
- [20:42]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, I keep it in my office, but it's a place where I always see it so that just, I happen to, I will happen to look at it I don't know how many times a week, just because it's in my environment. And so that has been something that has also been helpful too, because it's also easy to get pulled into the importance of a task that might not be higher priority than something else. And so to constantly be referencing these are the things that we're trying to get done in this quarter, I then get to say, okay, yes, this is important, I do want to do it, but does it actually align with the bigger objectives for what we're working on?
- [21:17]
David Allen
I love the fact that you create a physical object. I know a lot of high tech people that are going back to paper planners, especially the ADD or ADHD type, because there are too many clicks. You know, you get too bored trying to get into the computer to try to find that stuff. And it takes a lot of discipline. If you, if you're a GT deer and you're all your stuff is digital, God, you know, I've had two Thunderbolt screens, you know, on my desk at a time. And even that real estate wasn't enough, wasn't as good as a physical paper planner simply because that gave me the physical sort of reference point of the relationship of all of these different things to each other. I don't think there's, you know, at some point, at some point, it's actually several years ago, I don't know where it is now, but HP was actually coming up with a, with a digital paper that essentially was like a mylar screen that was, that functioned like paper. I said, so if you could have a planner that was just full of Mylar screens and then, so you could then add stuff to it or input stuff, whatever, but you could still have that physical, physicality and visibility of that stuff in front of you. I don't think there's any substitute for that.
- [22:34]
Dan Pardee
Now there's been some very interesting work that shows that writing handwriting is actually a better way to remember than simply typing. I tend to be a mostly digital type of guy, but I recognize, you know, it's sort of the, it speaks to the insidious nature of doing work within the modern world. Look at email. Within your email, at any moment you could be getting a extraordinarily important client message or the next message could be an advertisement for some boots that, you know, you might want to get. And there's 75% off and you got to get it now. And so it's the interweaving of our things that we need for productivity with the endless possibility for distraction. There's a concept of task switching which is moving your attention from one point of focus to another and then back. And the more tired that a mind is, the harder it'll be to move from the thing you're working on to the distraction and back. And if you think about what that modern culture is, if you email notifications, hallway conversations, meetings, you know, when you move from a point of focus to a distraction and back, you know, it's. If you have a tired mind, that can lead to what's called switching costs, which is a very. It takes a long time for you to actually get back into your focus. And so one thing related to sleep is if you are not getting the type of sleep that you need, it can take 25 minutes on average to move from a point of focus to a distraction and back. And I think that that can lead to a state of a lot of friction and dissatisfaction with your work. You get to the end of the day and you're thinking, I didn't, I didn't accomplish anything with my day. It felt like a waste. In those moments I found that the more aggressive I am attending to my list with that is gtd, then that actually helpful is very, very helpful. When my mind is not as sharp as it can be. It happens to all of us. So you really. I think modern productivity is really a combination of the idealized organizational system and the idealized sort of pattern of living so that you have the mental energy to move things in a frictionless way. But if I'm tired and like for example, in the afternoon, it tends to be a period of low productivity because we have a dip in our alertness drive. That's why it's a great time for a nap. Then that's the time where I'll go for a walk, listen to podcasts, do organizational tasks. I anticipate that that moment of less than ideal focus. And I then choose tasks that are appropriate for that state. And that's actually can be hard to do, but it's part of that relationship with yourself and with your work that ends up helping you click more things off, check more things off the list by the end of the day.
- [25:27]
David Allen
Okay, I couldn't agree more. Obviously, given all of our work and what GTD is about. And let me poke at you with a contrarian point of view.
- [25:38]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, right.
- [25:39]
David Allen
That says variety is a whole lot of what creates relaxation. See, the most information rich place in the world is nature because of the variety of it. There's so many horizons, there's so many things to look at. There's so many things. If you want to go crazy, put yourself in a room with no input. It's called sensory deprivation. That's a great way to drive you crazy. So we love actually multiple levels of input. So in a way, you know, when I watch kids, you know, thumbing away on their phones and doing all this other stuff I got, you know, it's kind of like because they're not out in nature, but it's their version of it, the version of multiple horizons of things. So on sale and you know, a.
- [26:21]
GTD Connect Moderator
Client that's going to give you a.
- [26:22]
David Allen
Lot of money, you know, as email. In a way there is a relaxation about those multiple horizons that we have that we can range in. I think it has a lot to do with what state of mind are you in? Is that the kind of game you want to be playing right now versus I need to get real work done. So push back to me on that or at least comment on that.
- [26:46]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, so there has been, interestingly there's work that if you're working in a busy cafe, you might be more productive than you would be if you were sitting in a quiet room by yourself. And somehow that stimuli improves cortical arousal, brain awakening. Essentially you can have a greater level of focus in that moment. If you think about what focus is and if you think about adhd, attention deficit kids that have kids and adults that have adhd, they have a hard time focusing on what's in front of them. And part of the reason why is that they are a tired mind will take in too much of that stimuli that is in the perceptual field. So you're perceiving all of it, but you're having a hard time filtering. A more energetic mind can actually harness that diversity and hone it into the stable attention on one thing. And stable is important. If you're tired, you can focus, but you just can't focus for very long. Your mind will constantly be jumping. And there are things called pre potent automatic responses where you're responding to things in your environment without even trying. It's just you're reacting to it. And that has everything to do with your that tired brain not being able to then filter and focus. So it is conditional still. And I think then there's also individual. You know, some people like a busy cafe more than they do a quiet library and vice versa. So it's sort of what you feel relaxed and comfortable in and what where you've oftentimes have done good work previously and you're like, okay, I'm in my happy space, let me get to work now. So yeah, it has a lot to do. Your individual characteristics, previous experience, but also state will largely determine and then also Focus and clarity of what you're working on.
- [28:45]
David Allen
Right. So a Saturday morning at Starbucks, when you've just gotten up and you've had your own thing and then you go out to a Starbucks, you're kind of in a morning state of mind and that's where you do your weekly review and. Yeah. And that's highly productive.
- [29:00]
Dan Pardee
Yeah.
- [29:00]
David Allen
Sometimes for me on a plane, you know, I like that time sometimes to do that kind of organizational rethink of my world because I still have the stimulus of things around me, but I can hold it back, you know, it's only random. It doesn't show up at me, doesn't force me to have to have to think about all that stuff. So, given this topic, I'm fascinated because I'm sure much of the audience listening to this right now is relating to both of these. Wow. I need a stimulating environment or I need a quiet environment. Does it have more to do with personality style, personality framework of all the different personality things, or more about how much sleep you got, sleep you had and what time of day it is?
- [29:48]
Dan Pardee
Yeah, well, it's funny because, you know, I actually, one of my productivity apps on my computer is called Noisio and it plays cafe noise in the background.
- [30:03]
David Allen
There's.
- [30:06]
Dan Pardee
I never get more work done with the sound of people around me, but I can't hear any individual conversation. The worst is if you can overhear one, two people talking. Right.
- [30:16]
David Allen
That's why somebody on a phone is much more distracting than two people talking to each other in the next table.
- [30:21]
Dan Pardee
Yes.
- [30:22]
David Allen
You keep wanting to say, well, what's the other. What's going on on the other side of that? It's fascinating.
- [30:27]
Dan Pardee
Yes, for sure. Yeah. So I think, what are my spaces? What are my productivity spaces and where do I go to get work done? That has been. And that can be a cafe, the library, your back office, whatever it is, and of course, work. But having those spaces where you go and it's, you know, that this is your moment to get a lot of work done can be something where you entrain your brain for, ah, this is my productivity space. And that can be, I think, a really good thing too. I personally like to mix up where I'm working within my day. And some of that has to do with getting walks and physical activity in my day. Some of it has to do with the change of environment. But I know that a great period of productivity for me is between 4 and 7 at night. And usually that'll be me walking from where, you know, my work over to a Library, sitting down and writing. And I know by that point of the day I've checked off a lot of email, I've checked in with my team, and I can just sit and focus and there's less distraction coming in. And so I, I look forward to that time every day now. And that's my place for doing the work.
- [31:38]
David Allen
So what advice would you give our listening audience about what we've just been talking about?
- [31:45]
Dan Pardee
I would say identify your spaces, you know, what are your places for productivity and have those clear in your mind so that if you know you need to go do your weekly review, you know where you can go. One of your, one of your options related to clarity. I think I go to bed before every night.
- [32:11]
GTD Connect Moderator
I'd like to give a short message to those of you who've been participating and playing with GTD Connect for a while and sort of remind you that all of us with this GTD methodology and this set of practices go through cycles. You know, I still go through cycles myself initially. There's kind of the inspiration and there's a lot of material to ingest and to get familiar with. And so people oftentimes, when they first come onto Connect, are just potentially overwhelmed by how much information there is. In a way, it's just a huge library where we've been able to archive so much different information from so many different perspectives and people and points of view and so understood that it's like walking into a library, oh, gee, where do I start? So that's oftentimes the initial phase of this, and many people after a year or two probably get on some level or some plateau where they go, well, I kind of got it now, I've got my system set up and everything's fine and I'm fine tuning. And you may find yourself at that point also finding yourself saying, gee, I'm now becoming a resource of this methodology for people around me, people asking me for assistance and helping this. And we've seen in the forums a number of people now sharing ideas about how to get your teams more involved or families more involved with this information. So some of that information is in there as well. But I think you'll find yourself going through cycles of this and you may find that much like if you've ever read a software manual. I remember when I read when I learned Microsoft Word to begin with, for instance, and I read the manual, wow, this is really cool. And I started to use the tool and didn't need the manual anymore. As a matter of fact, a good example of that Right here, the manual for this camera that's taking this picture right now. Initially, I read this, got it all set up. That's really cool. And that's really fine. And so pretty much everything was onto cruise control. I didn't need to go back to my library to make this really work. Then, of course, as I started to get more sophisticated in terms of the stuff I wanted to do, got more inspired about some things I saw other people are doing. I go, how do I do that? Went back to the manual. Oh, God, I didn't realize I could do that. I didn't realize I could do that. And I remember at least two or three iterations of going back to Microsoft Word back in the. In the days when there actually was a manual for that, as opposed to just all online and realizing, oh, my God, I didn't realize that. Oh, I could do that now. I could do that now. And I think that's what you might find with Connect, too, is that it's a gold mine of stuff many people have read getting things done more than three or four times, and every time they read it, they get something new out of it. So I think you may find Connect the same way and probably even easier, because, hey, it doesn't take much to just click on, surf around, see what might be new or what might be of interest to you, and pay attention. There's more than meets the eye in there.