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- [00:10]
A
Hi everybody. I'm absolutely thrilled to be sitting here chatting with a guy that I've had many conversations with over the years, a man named Kevin Wilde. And in a minute I'll let Kevin sort of give you his own long paragraph about who he is and what he does, where he comes from and all of that. But Kevin is one of the huge champions over the years of our work with getting things done and he can tell you a little bit more about that. But delighted to be able to talk with Kevin again. We did a conversation that was an interview on GTD Connect 13 years ago. We just looked it up 2007. And so some things will never change and we can talk about that and some things have probably changed and we can talk about that too. So, Kevin, delighted to have you. Thanks for playing with me today. Let me toss the ball onto your side of the net. So what would you like people to know about Kevin Wilde and your world and who you are, where you came from, what you're doing great.
- [01:16]
B
And again, delighted to reconnect with you formally, obviously the tools and concepts and your material. I visited from time to time. So to be able to remind that yes, there really is a David Allen. It's a good thing you've spawned a generation of great coaches and consultants and those are just lovely people to get to know as well. I had a 34 year corporate career. I've always been fascinated with leaders and how they develop. And I've had a good chance to do that both at General Electric and General Mills at the corporate level. My last role there I was the chief learning officer of General Mills. And for the last five years I've been doing other pursuits. It's not retirement, it's next chapter for me. I'm a fellow at the University of Minnesota in the business school. Teach leadership part time, do research on coachability of leaders, also advise some human capital firms and like going on adventures. So that. That's kind of the short story.
- [02:14]
A
Yeah. And you live on a great little lake. We won't tell anybody where that is. In your game, you also take people on adventures into the Grand Canyon. And you've also won more awards than I could even possibly remember. If you read Kevin's bio. And we'll include a little bit of that probably with this interview. Since you left Mills, I mean the awards you've gotten and the whole idea of organization development and leadership development and training and development. I mean, I know you came from ge, which was quite famous at the time, you know, leaving there in Welsh and So forth and a lot of the forward looking things you did. Actually, Kevin, it might be interesting if you could give me a trajectory of the OD organization, development, training and development, leadership development from the time you were at General Electric. What you learned there, what was unique there, what you brought to General Mills, what you learned there, how that may have transitioned and then, and then where you've gone from there. Now again, that may be the whole interview that we do. There's a lot of story, I'm sure all of that. But can you give us at least a summation or a preview of things to come in terms of what that transition has been like in that world and in that field?
- [03:35]
B
The one warning I'll give you and to the audience as well, is at the bottom of it all. I've had just fascinating opportunities to do work, to be with great leaders over the years, to work with great teams. And whether it's the awards or the great work the companies do, it's just been, wow, how did I ever get involved in that? It's been fabulous at the end, I think in terms of leadership. I am a student of the game, continue to be fascinated, curious about it. What does it mean in our current era? What is still true? What's overblown? Where is it headed? And so I'm just continually just curious. The things I learned, particularly when I was at the corporate training center at the time called Gee Crotonville. The company was really at the top of its game back then. And I had the corporate officers come in to be teachers in the program I had. And that was fun to work with them. And then the last one was Jack Welch. I was, as I proudly tell people, I was Jack Welch's chauffeur because he would helicopter into the training center and security did not like picking him up. So I'd take my little car and I'd go out there and I'd pick up Jack and I would drive him two minutes to the training center. We'd have a couple hours with the class and then I'd drive him back and had some great conversations. But again, it was really Jack and the corporation at its prime. And probably the one or two things that I carried forward from that is the sense of one excellence, that there's something to be as a leader. You're trying to get people to a different place, a better place in the organization. And that notion of excellence is part of it. And that was something that both Jack and the corporation at the time really imbued in me. And it carried on leaders, teaching leaders. One of the things I do as a professor at the university is I start my leadership course with a quiz and I say, what is the most important thing for a leader to do? Number one, most important thing. And in my mind it is your number one job is to develop other leaders. And that is something I picked up during that area. And then I carry on. So in other words, leaders teacher in one way or another, because otherwise, if you are just creating followers, it's short term. And so this notion about how to be authentic, how to bring your values, but how to bring the best out of others so they can discover where they want to go as leaders and whatever that means to them. So I picked that up. The fun of General Mills was a chance to build the organization. And we grew tremendously, doubled in size at one point, took things international. And I think there was a chance that. All right, so what of my early lessons still apply? And then what do I need to leave at the door? Six Sigma? And what do I need to invent or amplify that the place has? And early in that time, that's when we got involved in GTD that we had a bit of a learning institute. I wanted to take it to a new place and I encountered your team and your material at that time. And that just fits so well in where we're heading as an organization. And I can tell that story in a second because it was kind of fun. On how it all started. I'll leave this. We can come back to it. Is one thing I did in the talent management field is I was responsible for the care and feeding of the top 500 leaders worldwide, all officers, all directors. And so we would do annual reviews and who's great and where are they going? And I was noticing that in addition to all the success we had, we had failures, but we never talked about them. So I started doing an informal tracking about over time, who was great but not so much anymore. And at one point I brought into the CEO and the senior team a derailment study. So These are the 93 leaders that we loved that had great talents but got over their head and we let them go. Let's study that so we can avoid it in the future as well as the success thing. So that's been something I've been studying. And again, that's what has gotten me currently into what I call coachability.
- [07:34]
A
I have to stop you there.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah.
- [07:37]
A
What happened to ge?
- [07:39]
B
Well, I'll let the Wall Street Journal analysts finally end that one. I think as I Watched it all sort of just fall apart. It was very humbling because you think, hey, I'm part of a great place. We're on the winning team. It's always going to be a winning team. We're going to have the legacy. And I think what you'll learn is how temporary things are. And I really think now is that, yep, Google, Facebook, you name it, Amazon, everyone's going to have their time. But that doesn't guarantee it lasts forever. There are great lessons learned, there's magic that happens during the time, but there are no guarantees.
- [08:18]
A
So that would be especially since you and I are talking in 2020 right now in case this interview has a little bit of an evergreenness to it. And you know, 2020 is throwing a lot of curves at a lot of people that thought they were stable. Change things a lot, I think for a lot of people. But so back to your point. So, yeah, so they got smug or complacent or self satisfied or whatever. Didn't keep an edge. I guess that was still needed.
- [08:56]
B
Yeah. And that, that became the research I'm now currently doing and what I call coachability. Because what I found was I went back and I looked at their personnel records, interviewed people, what happened, because these were really talented people. And you know, for that segment, what I found was on their last 360 of record, they were rated 30% lower on one question compared to their peers. Does this leader seek and respond to feedback? In other words, are you always trying to get better and are you open to hearing it and do you look for it? And that has just led me on. Now my current research on it's fascinating. We looked at 50,000 leaders in another data set and we found is it naturally happens to all of us that once you get over the age of 30 or you advance in your career, you're interested in getting input on, hey, can I be better? Just naturally declines. And so the cause I'm in right now is, well, we got to bring it back. How do you get back? Maybe not necessarily to avoid derailment, but how do you keep that edge on your own learning? And I think in 2020, the edge on learning is now amplified by. It is crazy. There are more things out of control than we care to admit. I think we've nearly worn out the word agile. But yes, now we really know what agile is. And David, as we're talking today, I mean, I couldn't place a bet on where we're going to be in six months.
- [10:23]
A
Yeah, well, interesting. It is interesting to notice Some of the silver lining in some of the clouds and the fact that people are not going to be taking a lot of things for granted that they used to and that it's a much more of a global interconnected world than we realize. And also, you know, Kevin, I'd be interested in your take on the transition that's been happening forever, not forever, you know, for the last 30 years. Anyway, the number I read a statistic, don't know where it came from and I'll get the number wrong, but it was something about by 2050, 50% of the US workforce will be self employed. Basically people are going to have to manage themselves, you know, as organizations have gotten flattened and as you know, you know, as I, you know, most people, many people listening this, know that I'm, you know, I have a self organized organization. We adopted Holocracy. But that's a trend, the trend of a flat organization where people have to manage themselves. You know, back to some of our conversation about GPD and organizational culture. The necessity for people to be able to be their own executive no matter where they are in the organization. The difference between my first edition of Getting Things Done was really targeted to the fast track professional because they were the ones hitting with being hit with the tsunami of all the stuff and all that whatever and the hungriest to stay on top of their game and so forth. What changed was not the methodology, what changed was the audience. In 2001, maybe 10% of the organization needed GTD. In 2015, 95% of the organization needs it. Because you know, leaders don't have the time to handhold to your point. They need to build people that don't need to have their handheld about being a leader but know how to do that. So talk, talk about that does that. I'll just poke at you at that, at that topic. You know, in terms of the transitions we've seen, you know, in terms of the culture. Has there been a change then, therefore in leadership coaching, leadership direction, leadership training, leadership education, given those kinds of trends that are going on?
- [12:41]
B
Yeah, I mean the big one right now is I just find when there's so much unknown and so much challenge that some people get stuck and then there's talent you never realize suddenly just blossoms. And I saw it with mergers and acquisitions. I saw it with new products that worked, that failed, that. Wow. And the one thing that I now share with my classes and coaching is the notion of a leadership hat that. It's a long story, I won't get into it. That notion about, you know, there are times when we put on the formal hat as leader. I'm the formal leader. How do you play that well? How do you get ready for it? But there's times when no one in the room is the leader, and someone's got to step up. And that notion about when do you need to pick up and wear that leadership hat? And I think whether it's for yourself or whether the challenges we're currently getting into to notion that there isn't just this notion of there's a formal leader, not a leader, it's more of. It's a very fluid concept. There are times, but how do you understand yourself well enough that you know when to bring what I call those leadership skills to life? And again, very much connected to gtd. Yeah. Can I tell my GTD story, by the way?
- [13:56]
A
Please do. Oh, come on.
- [13:57]
B
I got a connection. So, you know, back in the early General Mills days, I got a learning institute. I had a team, all of that. And I had one of my directors. We were doing these weekly updates. And he was creative, he was smart, he was great. Collaborative, not organized. And so every week was like, doing a weekly review, let's say. And all of a sudden, guy got his act together. And after two of these new reviews with him, I said, I stopped the meeting. I said, wait a minute, something has changed. What's going on here? He said, I read this book. I got to see this book. And it was your getting things done book. Of course I got it, and I read it, and I liked it, etc. And then about a week later, I had a request that one of our creative officers was really disorganized and really needed to get his act together. So I looked at the back of your book, and I just called your firm and I said, you guys do coaching? I said, sure. So brought a coach in that leader got better. His neighbor literally in the office next to him, said, I want some of that, too. So we had coaching and finally said, timeout. Not everyone's going to get a David Allen coach here. So I called up a guy, said, do you have any, like, systematic training? And that's when we started to do the training. And I just kind of put it in the instant. I said, all right, we got this thing getting things done. We're going to bring in some of the experts. You want it? Here it is. And we had the first class. Well over 100 people show up. And then we did it again and another hundred, and it just. And it was all levels. And one thing I'd say about that story is how much GTD has range because it wasn't just a lower level manager or a director. I had a president of a division go through it.
- [15:43]
A
Was that the division, by the way? Because I remember I did one of the or two of those trainings. There was a new division there that had a bunch of young turks that were hot and heavy to take advantage of all this stuff. And you know, they were your real high pots, but a high pot as a whole division. Am I remembering that correctly?
- [16:06]
B
Well, we had a couple of them there. We had both the president of the big snacks division, which is impressive. Like, hey, even at this level, I still want to learn. Learn and grow, if you will, coachable. But we also had sort of the small, nimble, let's go into new areas. And at the time it was called seventh Continent, I think eighth Continent. Eighth Continent. And they created products and they still have this great venture lab that they have there. That's where you get sort of the. I call them the oddballs. You don't quite fit into the corporate structure, but we love having creative people. So back to the range, we had both the corporate suits that wanted to get better organized or their teams. And then we had the real creative people said, I'm attracted to this. There's something about this that works for me. And so it stuck. And that was probably. I've seen a lot of, whether it's a leadership fad or corporate culture, things kind of come and go and someone gets excited and then down the road it just fades. This thing sticks. And I'm always fascinated with concepts that are both useful to time but somehow get ingrained. And at the time I was there, this GTD got ingrained with the place.
- [17:21]
A
So let me poke at you again and say if you were in a long elevator ride with some senior executives in other companies, that said, by the way, I heard this thing about gtd. What is this? Why should I be interested in it? What would you tell them you had to make a if you had to? Not so much bottom line it. But if you had to story it about how this work affects potentially a corporate culture, what would you say?
- [18:01]
B
Yeah, I can start there again. I've not been on an elevator in a while, nor have you. In fact, I wondered, will the day come we'll be back in elevators. But for the time, what I would say is, number one, let's face the reality about what we're asking our people to do. There's more coming at them than ever before. Whether it's information or challenges or things that aren't working or bright new ideas. And I think it's important to start equipping them or helping them on the journey on how do I get done what I want to get done? But how do I play a role and be the kind of contributor I want to be? And we're finding GTD offers tools, methodologies, mindsets that are both evergreen topics that we need to be reminded of and get back to and kind of a fresh cut on things and people can find their own way into. All right, how do I bring my best self to what's going on and feel good about progress I'm making?
- [19:00]
A
I don't know how that fits Kevin, at this point, and it fits. I don't know if you remember this story, but you gave me a story I've used for many times about what seemed to have solidified the value of GTD in your culture, where you had two people who met each other because they were transitioning jobs. The person, they didn't know each other, one person was handing off the job to somebody else. They both pulled out their lists. They both had, you know, they were both GTD ers. So it, you know, something that oftentimes is totally ambiguous and incomplete and weird and cracks, you know, happen, you know, in transitions. This was fast, it was nimble, it was. It was seamless. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- [19:45]
B
It's a story. That's a story. It just bubbled it back to the what's going on here? When it was sort of the hot phenomena at the beginning was people started getting that, I'm seeing extra value of this. And again, everyone had their own, you know, take on. Here's how I'm going to use it. So it wasn't cookie cutter at all, to your point. It was kind of a freedom within a framework, but it was a mindset. It was a set of tools. It was a way to take it and, you know, back. I always tell people the way I teach is like, okay, so what do you want your leadership legacy to be? And having had my retirement party and corporate life, I got to hear, you know, the good and the bad at the time. But my team at the retirement party said Kevin was renowned for two questions. Anytime we'd get in a meeting or something was going on. And, you know, one was, you know, what's the problem we're trying to solve here? That was always one of my questions that goes back to my GE days. But the other one is, all right, so now we're done with that. What is the next step? And so there's. There's just certain phrases and certain mindsets and certain techniques that just sticks with you. My inbox right over here is still as sacred as it was in my corporate life. Like, everything goes in there. If it doesn't go in there, it doesn't count. And I've got that both physically and also digitally. So it sticks. It sticks.
- [21:05]
A
Very cool. What surprised you in your teaching now? The. The people you are teaching. What's different? What's new? What are you getting? Situations or questions or things you never had before or problems or issues or challenges that are new? Or is it really all the same old, same old, same old, just a different dressing?
- [21:32]
B
Yeah, yeah. I think it's always a mixture of background. I'm a student of the game. I'm both, you know, recognizing, okay, this is still valuable. It might need new language or new approaches. And then what. What's sort of the new thing? I think among the things that have my attention with this next generation of leaders at all levels is the notion about, I just don't want to advance. I want to do good. And I think do good starts with my set of values, what's important to me, and then do I. Do I work at a place or contribute to a team where I can be authentic and I can connect in with that and make a difference? Whether it's a difference to, you know, obviously, the corporate bottom line, but in your career. But no, this is a place where the community is better, the world's better, because I'm with this team and we're doing important work. And so that notion of purpose becomes important. The current conversations we're having on social justice are important. And I think, how does one navigate through that as a leader is. I think we're in the early stages of that one, for example, but I think there's more of a yearning to not just advance, not just, you know, hit the big goal, but also, are you living the life you want to live?
- [22:50]
A
And is that, you know, people then, you know, attribute that to the millennials and the new generation of whatever. But do you see that across generational now?
- [22:59]
B
I do.
- [23:00]
A
Or just really I do.
- [23:02]
B
And again, back to the, you know, the couple programs I plug into. One is more of a five to seven years into a career graduate degree. The other one is the high potential, very much like the GE course I taught. This was the. It's the executive mba, and those are people well into their careers, you know, aiming for what the Top is. Or do I want that? And the language is a little different, but it's. It's there. So back to, you know, what's. What's new? I think that's got more of an emphasis. And back to this agility. I think we're finally getting to a new level. What does agility really mean? Whether it's flat organizations, whether it's what I like calling. I do some work for the. What's called the Institute for Corporate Productivity. And they've got this great model of a talent ecosystem. And I think in the old days it was you had employees and then you had suppliers. That's it. And I think nowadays it's very fluid. It's very agile. We might have people on payroll as employees, if you will, 401k or some social benefit there that happens from the company. But we've got a variety of other talent in an ecosystem, and I think that is intriguing. And everyone is a leader. Everyone is an independent contractor. But that notion about if I'm trying to assemble, you know, the talent to get a job done, it doesn't necessarily mean it's someone who is held captive in the job in the corporation anymore. I'm putting. It's like a Hollywood movie, right? Here's the movie we want to produce. By the way, I've got a PhD student I know that is actually doing research on what are the employment trends in that field. It's fascinating. It's like, that's where we're all headed. How do we get the hairdressers and how do we get the cinematographers and how do we get the scriptwriters and here come the actors and how do we all come together and bring our best and create something great and then off to the next thing.
- [24:59]
A
I've always been fascinated, whenever you see movie credits, about casting. Casting director. I mean, that's like. That's gotta be like, what you're talking about. And so there's gotta be a casting director role now, you know, okay, which subcontractor do we use, you know, for this? How do we keep ourselves lean and mean and agile, you know, so that we don't have, you know, lifetime employees that we're dedicated to or have to be doing all that and stay.
- [25:29]
B
And what is. What does it mean? What does it mean to first define the work in such a way that you can tap into this again, the talent ecosystem? It's not like, I've got a job or I've got an outsource. Like, no, no, go to what? So I think it's not just casting director. I think it's a role of defining the work differently than we used to. So that's a trend. What the David and Allen Corporation is you've defined the work differently and therefore you can tap into a much richer ecosystem. The other thing I'm reminded of is one of the courses for my more early career people is the notion about when you transition to middle management beyond one of the transitions you gotta make both mindset and living your calendar is it's not just what you know anymore, it's what your network knows. And I think the same thing applies. It's not just the work you can do, it's the work your ecosystem can do, your talent ecosystem do that's gonna matter. So how do you both make the time for that? But, you know, be the great casting director and bringing that mindset to bear as you move forward.
- [26:36]
A
Yay. So you sort of tapped onto the topic, but let me poke at you to the future. Where are you going to be? What are you going to be teaching next year or two years from now?
- [26:53]
B
So the first question.
- [26:56]
A
Well, we're going.
- [26:57]
B
To be back in person. I mean, I've told the university, I said I'm doing everything virtual and I'm working really hard at making great human connections and learning happen through this virtual world. And there's both a little downside, but there's a big upside. And I think down the road, one of the questions that got to be that will need to be settled is how do we make learning in the flow of life both amplifying and using the digital tools that we all have, but knowing, no, no, this is when the tribe needs to come together, we need to get together. You know, back to the. Talking about some of the adventures I do. I've got a special trip I take with friends every year and new friends crossing the Grand Canyon and put our backpacks on and we do all of it in a day. You cannot do that through YouTube. You cannot do that through LinkedIn learning. You've got to get in there and experience it. And I think those things are refreshing for the soul. I think it is the human connection that online technology can apply. Yet on the other hand, what we're doing right now, David, we're kind of working halfway across the world together. And I think we're all getting good at that and we're going to get better at it. One of the. I'll leave you with this on this one. So one of the things I did the other day is I was trying to teach how leaders need to stop and reflect, and it's the hardest thing for my executive MBAs to do. They're great at other parts of what I call coachability. But when it comes to, okay, think about the feedback you've got. Think about the connections you want to make. No, no, no. I need to get back to work. And so what I did in my online training, and this is Synchronous, so we're all doing the zoom thing is I put them all into breakout rooms of one. I gave everyone their own breakout room. I said, I'm going to give you four minutes here. I want you to sit and think about these three questions, and I want you to type in the answers, and then we're going to come back together. And that worked. It's like, yeah, I think you can do things like that. Other things like, no, I think down the road, we're gonna have to find ways to get back together as we continue to advance the digital connections that we have. I hope that's an answer, but it's like, I'm more fascinated.
- [29:08]
A
No, no, no. It's great. And I totally agree. Interestingly, I'm dealing with the number of doctors in my ecosystem now that are getting used to telemedicine because we couldn't actually go into the office. And one of them, a dermatologist, got some skin stuff. He said, look, you got to talk.
- [29:31]
B
You got.
- [29:31]
A
Have to. You have to be with the person, touch them, be there. If you're a dermatologist, come on. That skin stuff, that's like. That's, like, real there. He said. But big surprise to him was actually how effective he could be, even with virtual, you know, connection all online, you know, on the phone with people and learning how to think that way and learning how to think through that process.
- [29:53]
B
So back to.
- [29:55]
A
It does require a different kind of a mindset that needs to get used to that. I would assume.
- [30:00]
B
One of the things. Back to your question about what's changed and what's different is in the early days of gtd, it was like, what notebook are you using? Right? And I still have your wallet, by the way. I have to admit, I don't take notes as much anymore as I used to, but it's more of the gear that gets you excited. But back then, it was like, is there any software? Will we ever have any software to use gtd? And now it's like, the technology is there. And whether it's these conference things or disseminating learning, man, it is there. It can only get better and we're all forced into getting used. The intersection that I find, speaking of the future is what is an office? We will redefine that. What is a classroom? We will redefine that. I can't imagine we're gonna go back to everyone, you know, commuting to a place to be together every day.
- [31:01]
A
How many office buildings are going to turn into apartments.
- [31:04]
B
Yeah. And so back to the. Where things are going to evolve and how do you take advantage of the opportunities, but people will still feel a need to come together. So how do you both deliver the digital version of that, given all the great technology we've got? By the way, there is something that happens. When we were learning GTD in the old days at General Mills, we were in a conference room and there was something about being in the room not just with the instructor and the material, but with each other. There was a kinetic energy there that it's hard to replicate that on the other hand, what was hard to replicate back then was when do you need a dose of gtd? Like why can't assemble a classroom at a moment's notice, guys? Well, now we can. Now we can through all the great tools you've got and the coaching you've got, etc. So you can get, you can get the big chunk or you can get just bite size. So how do we make all that work?
- [31:57]
A
Yay, Kevin. This has been fun. Lovely to tap in and catch up with you, you know, in your thinking and what's been going on. What, what? Let me, let me give you one of those. Okay. You're gonna, you're in your, your, your own breakout room now for 60 seconds. What advice would you give people listening to this? Some of whom are old time gtders? They get it. They're, you know, they're, you know, they're the grandfathers of, you know, of. Someone described GTD as lean for the brain. I mean, these guys are clear, but they're always. But they're still into self learning and then new people of mine. Gtd. Wait a minute, what's that? I've heard about that or whatever. But generally speaking, what would you, what advice would you give people in terms of managing themselves going forward in the world these days? If you, if you had to, if you had to pick something to say or two or three things, what would it be?
- [32:54]
B
I think it would start with that notion about take a pause from time to time, sometimes big chunks, sometimes small chunks, and remind yourself of your purpose. What am I here for? What am I trying to do what would make it a good day for me, for others, and then be more intentional about how you want to show up that day. One thing I assign in my classes is the very first homework is define your legacy, what you want to be known for after your next job, not your current job, but your next job. What do you want people to say about you? And not just something trite, but can you get really clear and meaningful. And then having put that together, how do you remind yourself of that? And then how do you engage the world and your calendar and the people you're with for that? How do I want to show up today is a great question. At the beginning of the day and at the end of the day, how did I do? What did I learn? What's next?
- [33:49]
A
Very cool. By the way, I'm going to retrace back a bit of a thought about reflection. We've got a really great champion of our stuff and one of the major 250,000 person global corporations, head of executive development. And one of the things he said was the biggest lack of the 5,000 executives he was accountable for was reflection. And so he had learned the weekly review. As a matter of fact, he actually started staying home on Fridays to do his weekly review, which was given the culture he was in, that which was radical and out of his comfort zone, but realized that was absolutely critical. And then that was the major need. And I still think that's the biggest need. And you've just addressed it at least certainly at a personal level. Any other thoughts about that?
- [34:35]
B
Well, as I've been studying coachability, by the way, just come back to my hobby topic right now. There's essentially given the research I've done, do you value it, do you see seek it, do you reflect on it? And then if it's valuable to you, what do you act on? And those are all the different dimensions. When I've seen leaders that are really good on the reflection, part of that it tends to break my personality. And what I generally say, if you want to up your game, if you are an extrovert, the way you're going to reflect is you're going to talk to someone else. So how do you schedule and encounter more meaningful dialogues with your trusted advisors and your friends? I mean, let's face it, I'm talking to David Allen, man, I'm going to have a great day. This is going to go really well. So how do you both assemble and connect with those folks? If that's where your reflection comes from, let's have A reflective conversation. If you're an introvert, that's like, okay, so got your journal, taking notes. Do you build a routine in where you ask yourself three questions every day and you write it down? The famous Bill Gates story that back when he was the CEO of Microsoft, he would take two weeks every year and he would go off to his cabin alone to catch up on his journals and do some thinking. And I thought was hilarious. He didn't take any technology with him back then. But it's. How do you disengage so you can come back and engage?
- [35:55]
A
Better point. Kevin, thank you so much. By the way, anybody who's been watching or listening to this that might be interested in poking at you further or finding more details about what you're doing or what you know, could they get in touch with you and if that's okay, what's the best way for them to do that?
- [36:16]
B
Sure. Happy to, and thank you for that. So first of all, you can track me down on LinkedIn. Also, I do have a website where I just put everything out there. I've learned on coachability and it is TheCoachableLeader.com all one word. TheCoachableLeader.com if you want to do an email, just start it with Kevin K E V I n@the CoachableLeader.com Very cool.
- [36:42]
A
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And let's not wait another 13 years before we have a conversation. What do you say? Okay.
- [36:49]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely. Looking forward to where you and the place is going next. But know that the work that you've done and all the leaders that we've passed, the GTD thing has really benefited from. So for you and the team, keep up the great work. Thank you.
- [37:04]
A
Thanks, Kevin.