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- [00:11]
A
Hi, everybody. David Allen here with two, I'm assuming, very cool guys. I haven't met you guys face to face, but, you know, we've intersected before, and I was lucky enough to receive an advanced copy of the new book both these guys have just co. Authored. Decision Intelligence Selling. I think I told you guys I was on an endorsement diet. So I get so many requests for endorsements, but this one was particularly unique. So I was willing to give it a very nice endorsement because I think it's a very, very useful concept and certainly useful for our network and actually anybody in life out there who wants to influence anybody else. So let me stop talking and I'm going to hit the tennis ball over the net to you guys to introduce yourselves and, you know, as long or short a paragraph as you want to give about who you are, what you do, and sort of frame the context for people that will be listening to this. So, Roy, let me toss the ball to you. So by the way, folks, this is Roy Whitten and Scott. Roy. Two Roys.
- [01:19]
B
Two Roys.
- [01:20]
C
That's the most confusing part of the whole thing, actually.
- [01:23]
A
So, okay, so Roy, first name Roy.
- [01:28]
B
First name Roy.
- [01:29]
A
Yeah. Let me hit the ball to you.
- [01:31]
B
All right. Well, Scott and I have known each other for over nearly 30 years now. And I actually started my very first job in college was selling door to door for the old Fuller Brush company.
- [01:49]
A
Oh, I did that, too.
- [01:51]
B
You did that, too?
- [01:52]
D
I did.
- [01:53]
A
And I sold Watkins products, too, so. Sorry.
- [01:55]
B
Yeah, well, you know, and. And they. They taught me how to lie for fun and profit, spin stories and talk people into stuff. And then my. And then I went to graduate school. And for the next 10 years, I was a parish priest in the Episcopal Church. And which is another kind of selling, actually trying to sell people to live in a certain way. And following that, when I decided I'd had enough of that and I quit, I started with another business partner, started.
- [02:32]
C
An international.
- [02:34]
B
Human development program. That's what I did for the next 20 years. Trained lots of people and oversaw a sales force which was all volunteer of several thousand people wanting to spread the word about what we were doing. And after that I went and got my doctorate in the field of transformative learning and change. How people change, how organizations, systems change. And so I studied formally for a while, what I'd been doing for 30 years after that, became a consultant. Scott and I were put back together on a project by another consultancy. And then we started this business in 2009. And over that time, and especially as Scott And I started working together, we developed our approach to selling because the old approach that I had first learned with Fuller Brush just didn't actually work, or if it did work, I just didn't feel that great about it. So that'll kind of leave out there for a moment what decision intelligence selling is. But that's me. And at this point, Scott is running our organization as the sole CEO. And I'm back a step into the chief executive coach, coaching the SLT and taking the lead on writing our books. So interesting stage of life for me, and very glad to be working with this. I think it's an amazing man.
- [04:01]
A
Where are you, Roy? Where do you live?
- [04:03]
B
I'm in Sacramento, California, Roy.
- [04:06]
A
Hopefully you're staying nice and safe with.
- [04:08]
B
All the going on in California. It is. It's tough. We've got one fire about 40 miles to the west of us and one about 60 miles to the north, and we're just not going outside. The air is terrible.
- [04:21]
A
Wow. Okay. Well, hopefully by the time people listen or see this, things will have cleared up. So that would be great. Yeah. We send you all the best wishes. Okay. So, Scott, you got the ball.
- [04:35]
B
Okay.
- [04:36]
C
The other Roy. Yeah. Scott. Roy. There you go. Yeah. Roy and I met in 1986, in August of 1986, be exact, where I took the program that he and his business partner were putting on in Knoxville, Tennessee, which is where one of my homes is. I'm actually in London, England, right now. That's where my other house is. My wife is English, and she refuses to move to the colonies. And so anyway, we keep two households. But I met Roy, and, you know, I'd been in sales my life after college, or basically starting in college, selling books door to door with the Southwestern company, which is a revered sort of really good, solid direct sales company that actually trains people well and is actually ethical. And so it's one of America's oldest companies. And I was very fortunate that I was trained by such great people. But I met Roy, and then when I met him, I was about 29, I think, and it was just. I was going through the difficulties as a sales manager of managing. I had a team of about 130 people or something like that, and managing salespeople's ups and downs, their attitudinal sort of swamping that happened from time to time, all based on their sales or their experience. One day they'd be up, the next day be down, the next day up, next day down. And it was really difficult as a sales manager. And so I Went to the seminar Roy put on and I learned all about attitude and how to manage attitude. And it was like I felt like I had the holy grail sales management given to me. And I took that and then I went into business. Went into my business and then I took it into the insurance business and then actually really cashed in on the capabilities that we had learned from Roy and his business partner about how to work with people, how to bring the best out, how to get them to produce consistently. So from that time, you know, I've been involved as CEO of a number of organizations. I was lucky enough to be a co founder of an insurance company that now is worth about 2 billion assets. Unfortunately, I'm not a stockholder anymore, but that company's done quite well. And about 12 years ago, 13 years ago, Roy and I looked at each other after being working together for a couple of years under another consultancy, and we said, you know, why don't we go back into business together? Or why don't we go into business together, I should say. And so we spent a year putting our company together and we decided to become a sales consultancy. We're a change consultancy, but focusing on sales because in 2010, 2009, that's what people needed at that point because the global financial crisis. So anyway, we're sales consultants and you know, We've executed about 350 projects around the world in about 45 countries, and we now have about 50 consultants working with us. And so that's, that's our story.
- [07:26]
A
Okay. Now they're probably going to be people listening or watching this podcast. We're doing this interview that are on a huge wide spectrum of experience with selling. So we brought, you know, certainly in my network of licensees, there's some pretty sophisticated folks out there that have been around the game for a long time and doing very well in terms of what they do. And on the other end of the spectrum would be people who go, you know, come on, you, you guys make fun of it in the book. Everybody does. You know, the sales. Oh, God, that's, that's the guys in the white puck shoes and the, you know, the used car salespeople and the Fuller Brush guy knocking.
- [08:08]
D
Brush guys knock, right?
- [08:10]
A
Or me. When I sold Watkins products, my entry in the door was they had a spot remover that I could actually put ink on my white shirt, take the spot remover, put it on there and it disappeared. Oh, my God, I. So many sticks of spot remover. I bet you did. Sorry, I don't want to. I Don't want to get into my story more yours, but so we're gonna have this range of people there. So one of you pick up the ball and say, how would you address the larger context of where selling has been and what you think is unique and needed in that game? I also, by the way, think it's really cool that you guys wrote that. You. A lot of your work is with socially conscious businesses and people. So, you know, that's another conversation we can get into. What do you mean by that? How do you determine that? What are your standards about what that is? But obviously, there's a lot about caring, you know, that goes on, you know, in your model and in the process that I think is an important take on what you guys do. So that's a vague intro to you guys talk to the folks out there about selling.
- [09:33]
B
Well, Scott, why don't I pick up the first question and then let you take the lead on the socially conscious, since you're the one that led us into that.
- [09:40]
C
Sure.
- [09:42]
B
I think what I'd say to all of your folks listening to this, especially those who are new to selling, but also those who've had a lot of experience, like Scott and I have, is I would say, take a moment and really dig deep and see what you really think selling is.
- [10:02]
D
Really.
- [10:03]
B
And one way we do this in the training is we just ask the question, who's proud to be called a salesperson? You know, you go out to bar, you go to a party, and somebody says, what do you do? Who says, I'm in sales. And the truth is that it's what we found working around the world, both in the developing world and in the commercial sector, that everybody thinks selling, when you really scratch them deep enough, selling is about pitching, persuading, and pressuring to get people to buy. You can spin a story like I was taught to spin and put ink on your shirt and a spot remover to capture people's attention. The way I sold fuller brushes, you remember that. That little aerosol you do one squirt of. I was told to put that on the table and not say anything about it until they asked all of this manipulative stuff. And most people think that's what selling is. And anybody who really has a heart or a conscience or actually cares for other people just never feels comfortable doing it. And so what? We. It took us a while to work out of that, frankly, for ourselves, and we had to lose a couple of really big contracts that were on the table in order to have us sit back and Say how do we really want to sell? How do we sell in a way that's aligned with who we are as human beings? And that's when we came up with decision intelligence selling. So DQ shorthand for decision intelligence, like iq, intellectual intelligence, EQ, emotional intelligence. We coined the term decision intelligence to refer to the commitment you make in selling that your job is not to pitch and persuade and talk the other person into buying something, but your commitment becomes how can I improve? How can their decision intelligence, their ability to make the best possible decision for their business, even if today it means they don't buy what I'm selling? And when you commit yourself to that and you build a system and a structure and a set of skills and manage your attitude around doing that, promoting your client or your customer's DQ and raising it, you start selling in a way that you're proud of and that actually is far more effective than the old way.
- [12:40]
C
And it's more enjoyable for that matter. I mean, you know, this is the one of the things, you know Roy, when you're mentioning about how sales a lot of times people, you know, have to do things in order to make the sale. But there's also a pressure that salespeople feel. You know, they're on a target typically or they're on a direct commission and they're, they oftentimes feel pressure, especially you know, not just self imposed about wanting to sell, needing to sell, needing to make an income, but also from the outside, from management, from the uppers and the finance department, whatever it is, of saying, look, you got a target, if you don't hit the target, then you're going to be on a personal improvement plan, yada, yada yada, all that stuff. And so selling has always been, it's been something that, where people have felt a lot of pressure and I in particular, when I was on the pad, so to speak, used to really internalize that pressure quite a bit. And it was very difficult every day to get out there and give it my best until I got going each day and then, okay, all right, everything's fine and I can make my first sale. And that was great. And so I think one of the things I loved about Deque, when we developed it was that selling lost that fear, that feeling of pressure on me because when I was putting myself in the situation of making sure that I'm helping clients make the very best possible decision by defining what the problems are that they have and really digging deep into those problems so far so that they, that people don't Even, you know, they didn't have a full appreciation of the problems or the extent of the problems they had, or even the root causes of those problems. And when we start doing that with clients, and all of a sudden they really begin appreciating the conversation. And then when you then take another step and actually, you know, cost the problem, you figure out what is the range or the estimate of what it's costing them to have that problem. If they don't solve it, you know, then, you know, really the trend is there's not a pressure that I feel, and it's not a pressure that a client feels. It's just really, you know, discussing a business case, really deciding, you know, what is really important to them, et cetera. And then if you have a solution that fits, and there you go, you know. So for me, it's learning how to sell in a way where I don't feel that pressure that I have to sell a certain number of products or a certain person on a product.
- [14:51]
B
I'm sure. If I could say one more thing on that, David, just to build on that slightly for your listeners, that great selling is actually like great coaching. You know, you don't. When you're coaching, you don't roll in and just say, here's the GTD system and what you're supposed to do with it. What you do is you take time and say, what is the problem you're trying to solve here? Are you overloaded with information? Do you lose your sense of priorities? Do things disappear on you and you don't know where they are? You know, you find out what the issues are and then help go solve them. That's what a good coach does, and that's what people know how to do. Selling is exactly the same way. And once you get hold of that as a coach, you could relax, as Scott said, and really go about the job of helping your person make a good decision as to whether to buy your services or not. Because it's a whole different way of going about it.
- [15:47]
A
Yeah.
- [15:47]
B
Over to you.
- [15:48]
A
Yeah.
- [15:48]
B
Yeah.
- [15:49]
A
You know, over all the years, you know, consultative selling, spin, selling all that stuff as it got more sophisticated out there. But that, in a sense, you're tasking people to be business consultants, really, or inviting them to step up to that plate. Correct. So I would assume that you're trying to sell people that there's a process that you go through or that you would recommend that people go through so that they know how to ask the right questions, how to actually stop and listen. One of the Toughest things in the world is actually sit there and not say anything.
- [16:32]
C
Yeah, well, it's like, it's like a lot of salespeople ask questions to lead clients along a path, you know, to get to the yes response. Right. And we believe, yeah, we believe exactly the opposite is you put the topic on the table and let the client talk about what they want to talk about and follow the client because it's their problem. And then, and then literally by playing back to them what they're saying, then they begin thinking much more deeply about that problem.
- [16:58]
A
Well, interesting. I mean, as I was reading your book by the way, it sort of brought back and reminded me of my 35 years in this business of essentially, you know, primarily in the corporate training world and talking to, you know, to everybody from Clos, chief learning officers all the way down to or all the way through to training and development people and HR people or whatever. And so much of the time we had to just educate them about what their strategies needed to be. They said, oh, I have a box to check called time management or whatever. And then we had to sort of lead them to the discussion of, yeah, well, what strategies, how would this serve your business if you did this? And most of them were not even ready for that discussion. They were sophisticated enough in their business. They were just trying to check boxes and be okay for whoever they were serving or whoever was looking at their job. But you were really challenging people to be much more self contained in terms of their own awareness of the business. So speak to that.
- [18:12]
B
Yeah, well, it's Most people, most CEOs, most managing directors, or most social entrepreneurs, we work with a lot of them in the developing world. Like any of us running a business, hats off to you. I mean it's one of the hardest things in the world to do, is really run a successful business and one that really promotes the well being of everybody involved instead of just trying to make a short term profit. It's a very hard thing to do. And most people trying to do it are the ones with their nose pressed up against the tree trying to find the forest. And they need somebody from the outside who's not just showing up, trying to pitch something to them, but who's willing to help take the time for the peel them off the tree and help them see the forest that they're in. And there is a structure to that. Scott spoke to the first two points of it, which is first, as a salesperson you just need to discipline yourself to back off your pitching and spend the first part of your time helping them articulate what are the actual problems they're trying to solve. And as you said, David, help educate them about the business they're in. You know, have you thought about this? And what's your issue with that and what have you tried before and what got in the way of it working so that you really help them raise their dq? First of all, my gosh, I've got these eight problems to solve, and of those, here's the top three. Then the second thing you make them do before you ever talk to them about really what you've got to offer, because you don't know yet if it's going to fit, is you say, what is the price you're paying for leaving those problems unsolved? That's the question that no salesperson, no salesperson, hardly any salespeople ever ask. And very few customers really have calculated. And once they understand, my gosh, I've got these issues now I understand them and I'm paying a price here, then the question is, is the price high enough that we should talk about a solution? So then the third step is, if you've got a solution that will really solve their problems, you offer it. And then the fourth step is you help them calculate an estimated value as to what that solution could bring them. And at that point, their ability to make a good decision is fully developed, and they will either make it and be committed to it and be a great client or customer, or it'll become obvious somewhere along that process that this isn't right for them right now. So there is a structure to it that you need to learn. And as Scott was saying, one of the critical pieces to put the structure into play is you've got to manage your own attitude so you can stay relaxed, you can stay open, you can listen even if your manager is banging on you about meeting your quarterly quota and your quarterly target, you've got to manage your own state of mind so that you can sell in this way.
- [21:26]
C
This was to your point, David, about, you know, having the patience to listen, you know, when you ask a question and somebody you know, or having the patience to ask the questions. And oftentimes salespeople will hear the answer they want or need to hear, and then that triggers them into a pitch, you see. And so it requires discipline. I mean, it's sort of like, in a way, it's sort of like the system that you have with getting things done. It's like there is a system, and it takes discipline to do that system. It's not hard it's just the challenge is to stay disciplined, you know, and using the various tools you've got in order to establish the very next step and what you're going to do next, etc. You know, I mean, it's very, very, you know, you have applied a science to, you know, what you do in organizing and getting people to get things done. And we've done the same thing with sales as we've applied a framework and a science that it just requires then the discipline to follow that science.
- [22:19]
A
And so let's go to my sort of question number two. Socially conscious organizations, and you guys obviously are doing a lot of work in a lot of places that very much need the ability to do better what they're doing, if they're helping people, if they're improving the world, everybody who's working to improve the world would love to improve it better and easier and not burn out in the process, etc, etc. So frame for me how you guys then see social consciousness and socially consciousness organization.
- [22:52]
C
Well, how we got into this is before Roy and I actually got together as in partnership. I did a volunteer assignment with an organization called Voluntary Service Overseas here in London, in England, I should say, which is where they sent me off to Cambodia for six months as a business executive who was going to help an organization there to learn how to do business better because they were non profit organization and they were just sort of dabbling in what they were looking at as far as sort of incomes and generating livelihoods for very poor people in developing countries. I tell you, I met a guy there named Mike Roberts who is the country director for an organization called International Development Enterprises out of Denver, Colorado. And he's the guy who helped me make the connection between what I knew how to do as far as selling and filling needs, etc. And running a business, etc. And what had happened in philanthropy, international development, over the past, or basically the past 15, 20 years now, but back then it was just a few years into it and Mike helped me understand that what I knew about selling and sales, management and business, et cetera, was the very thing that was needed now, because instead of giving things away to poor people, they wanted to set up products and services that the poor could actually afford and pay for. Because the theory is if they pay for it, then they'll use it, you say, and so you don't give a toilet to somebody, you have somebody pay a discounted rate or a lower rate so that they then are invested in it. And so that's how we Got into it and I designed a program there in farming called Farm Business Advisor program, which basically they said it was like Avon ladies selling seeds to older farmers. Okay? Going door to door and selling seeds. And then the growing advice of how to grow more than just rice. You could grow beans, or you could grow chilies or different things that would then give you additional income. And so that developed into a program. It went on to win a big prestigious award put on by Nestle Corporation. And all of a sudden our phone started ringing in the developing world. So then we got in from farming into sanitation and then water purification and then solar lighting and then clean cookstoves. And, you know, and we just kept saying yes to it, you know, Meanwhile, we've got our commercial business back in London, in Europe and working in the United States somewhat. And, you know, Roy and I are looking at each other going, well, which would you rather do? You know? And so you want to make these rich companies richer or do you want to. And so we rode both horses for a while and just really emphasize more in the developing world. And lo and behold, we happen to be an organization that was sort of like in the right place at the right time for the need that was there. It just completely perchance, really, and we've developed ourselves into the lead firm in the developing world, meaning places in Africa and Asia, southern Asia, et cetera, where do gooding organizations that are in all different sorts of products and services like agriculture, education, water, sanitation, you know, you name it. Need help in developing sales strategy, sales recruiting, how do you compensate people, et cetera, et cetera. And then how do you sell and how do you sell, very importantly, in an ethical way, that will also change behavior because if you just sort of show up and sort of pitch the product, you know, here, buy the phone. This is a really good phone. It's pretty. It does all this. Then what ends up happening is people stop using it because they don't really understand why it's so good or why it's so important. So the type of selling that we taught in the commercial world in London, which is complex selling, deep listing, etc. Just happens to be the kind of selling that actually changes behavior and causes people not just to buy quickly, but to buy in deeply and actually use it. So that's how we got into it. And we love doing that part of our work. We're sort of rebalancing now. We're also working commercial world and, you know, certainly in the developing world. And there's really not that much difference between the two, quite frankly, both are, you know, adequately needed, you know, or, you know, inadequately served, let's put it that way, by what we do. So.
- [27:09]
A
Yeah, well, cool. Well, I hate to put you in that category, but sort of Robin Hood, let's go get the rich guys and, you know, and you know, make good money that they love to pay us and then let's take it and then help the folks that don't quite have those kind of resources.
- [27:25]
C
Yeah, I mean, we charge for our services in the developing world. I mean, we scale it according to, you know, the people that we're selling to. Obviously the commercial world, there's more money to be able to do it, so we scale it accordingly and. But we still are a profit oriented company. We just have to put in a lot more days, a lot more time. And our consultants know that our consultants aren't part of our team because they want to get rich. They, they're part of our team because they want to make a difference.
- [27:51]
B
I think what's also true in the commercial sector is, I mean, this sort of wanting to do well, to do well by doing good is something that's been slowly developing in the last 25, 30 years and has really found its full flower in these social entrepreneurs. And you know, Scott speaks regularly for us at Stanford and Harvard and places like Wharton, Yale, mit, places like that. In the business schools. They have got classes on social entrepreneurship. And in a way, the commercial world is just catching up to that. The Business roundtable, the top 180 CEOs in America that every August turn out some statement about the shape that business is in and where it's going. In August of 2019, they came out and said, short term profitability is no longer going to be the driving force in our companies. The driving forces will be five, in this order. The first is the well being of our clients and customers, then our employees, then our suppliers, then the communities in which we serve. And the fifth priority will be long term profitability for shareholders. Short term profitability didn't even make the list and that was news for about a day and a half and then it disappeared. And I think nobody kind of knew it was like a great idea and its time has come, but nobody kind of knows how to do it. And the reason that we wrote this book and that you generously endorsed, which we're very grateful for, is because people need to know, how do you shape a business to do that around those priorities and the way you shape it is by first looking at how you're selling because if you really want to see what your priorities are as a company, you look at how you're selling, what you're offering. That's where the rubber meets the road. And if you can transform that, then the whole business follows. And so we're really looking for people who think like us. We know they think like us. As social entrepreneurs, we have hundreds of people that we know like that, that we're working with. We're also looking for the commercial guys who are directors of sales managers of a division they've got control over who are saying, I want my people to sell like that. Those are the people we've worked with in the commercial world. And they can impact a lot of people in a hurry when they go after that.
- [30:41]
C
In fact, they're people that we featured in the book with Mark Campbell, Mark Jopling, Colton, annette, Greg Friedman, etc. Real stories of real people who took a courageous stand and said, I want my people to sell differently. I don't want my people to be just great or good cooks. I want them to be master chefs. I want them to be really good at not just following a recipe, but I want them to be excellent at what they do. With this move that we see happening in the marketplace nowadays with more interest in what if we did pay more attention to our clients, to our actual workers within our business, to the environment, to the community, to our vendors, look more for Win Win. I mean, there's that energy out there right now. And that's one of the reasons why we wrote Decision Intelligence, is because we want to find our way back into these organizations that really do want to change and deliver that. Of course, the biggest fear, David, is that, wow, if we do that, then our short term profits are going to plummet or decrease. What our experience has been is nothing is further from the truth. Actually, we find that companies begin selling better. They sell more frequently, they close more deals, they close larger deals, they close them in shorter periods of time, their pipelines stop kind of slowing down and instead they start speeding up. And it's all in the process of not just selling a great product, but it's about selling in a great way the product that you have. You sell it in a way that that's what distinguishes you and differentiates you from everyone else in the marketplace, you know, who's just pitching and trying to persuade people to buy. Instead, you show up wanting to listen. You want to listen, you want to explore, and you want to spend some time to understand the client. And once you do that, then people really, really See that you're operating in a different way and that really takes the competition off the marketplace and it puts you squarely in the lead position with enough deals that it really makes a huge difference.
- [32:47]
A
Well, you're, you're putting, you know, you've put a real concept on, you know, what to me, you know, really builds, you know, successful long term, and that's trusted relationships.
- [33:02]
B
Yeah.
- [33:03]
A
And so, you know, you're not gonna, you're not gonna ultimately buy from somebody you don't trust. And ultimately you find somebody that you trust and have a relationship with them. You'll buy everything they're selling.
- [33:15]
B
If you don't buy it today, you'll buy it tomorrow, and you'll refer people who are like you to them, and you won't trust people who are ultimately just trying to twist your arm to buy something.
- [33:28]
A
Well, it's an interesting spin or an interesting dynamic that you really indicated that the bellwether of a company's DNA sales. It's an interesting idea. I never really thought about it that way, but I, you know, you're really right because those are the, those are the troops that are out there essentially communicating whatever the DNA of the company is by the nature of their relationships, by the nature of how they do what they do. So a real tactical question. What do you do? Do you coach sales managers on a different compensation model?
- [34:11]
B
Depends on what's appropriate for their business.
- [34:28]
D
I'd like to give a short message to those of you who've been participating and playing with GTD Connect for a while and sort of remind you that all of us with this GTD methodology and this set of practices go through cycles. You know, I still go through cycles myself initially. There's kind of the inspiration and there's a lot of material to ingest and to get familiar with. And so people oftentimes, when they first come onto Connect, are just potentially overwhelmed by how much information there is. In a way, it's just a huge library where we've been able to archive so much different information from so many different perspectives and people and points of view and so understood that it's like walking into a library, oh, gee, where do I start? So that's oftentimes the initial phase of this, and many people after a year or two, you know, probably get on some level or some platform where they go, well, I kind of got it now. I've got my system set up and everything's fine and I'm fine tuning. And you may find yourself at that point also finding yourself saying, gee, I'm now becoming a resource of this methodology for people around me, you know, people asking me for assistance and help in this. And we've seen in the forums a number of people now sharing ideas about how to get your teams more involved or families more involved with this information. So some of that information is in there as well. But I think you'll find yourself going through cycles of this, and you may find that much like if you've ever read a software manual. I remember when I read, when I learned Microsoft Word to begin with, for instance, I read the manual, wow, this is really cool. And I started to use the tool and didn't need the manual anymore. As a matter of fact, a good example of that right here, the manual for this camera that's taking this picture right now. Initially, I read this, got it all set up. That's really cool.
- [36:12]
C
Cool.
- [36:12]
D
And that's really fine. And so pretty much everything was under cruise control. I didn't need to go back to my library to make this really work. And then of course, as I started to get more sophisticated in terms of the stuff I wanted to do, got more inspired about some things I saw other people are doing. I go, how do I do that? Went back to the manual, oh, God, I didn't realize I could do that. I didn't realize I could do that. I remember at least two or three iterations of going back to Microsoft Word back in the day, in the days when there actually was a manual for that, as opposed to just all online and realizing, oh, my God, I didn't realize that, oh, I could do that now. I could do that now. And I think that's what you might find with Connect too, is that it's a gold mine of stuff. Well, many people have read getting things done, you know, more than three or four times, and every time they read it, they get something new out of it. So I think you may find Connect the same way and probably even easier because, hey, it doesn't take much to just click on, surf around, see what my be new or what might be of interest to you, and pay attention. You know, there's more than meets the eye in there.