Ep. 364: GTD Office Hour with David Allen

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Getting Things Done Ep. 364

GTD Office Hour with David Allen

Date: May 27, 2026
Host: John Forrester (B), with guest David Allen (A), and discussion participants Clayton (C), Holly (D), “E”, “F”, and Mike.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of the GTD Office Hour centers on informal, in-depth discussion and Q&A on practical aspects of the Getting Things Done (GTD) system. The episode features host John Forrester opening the floor for community discussion, then a special appearance by David Allen, who reflects on the recent 25th anniversary of the GTD book, his 80th birthday, and shares fresh wisdom on email management, dealing with interruptions, digital capture tools, and making self-management work. Listeners share wins and challenges, seeking practical advice for sticking to the core clarifying and organizing stages of GTD—whether solo or with assistants.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Distraction of Driving & Productivity (00:00–02:18)

• The episode begins with reflections on multitasking while driving, referencing past GTD interviews. Participants agree any attempt to “get things done” in the car beyond driving is unwise.
• Quote: “Getting things done shouldn’t happen in the car other than driving.” (B paraphrasing an interview, 00:25)

2. Email Management Epiphanies & Practical Wins (02:39–06:09)

• One participant (“E”) shares a breakthrough after revisiting GTD materials: after years of resisting folder-based email management, they now find action and waiting-for folders reduce overwhelm, liberating them from working inside their inbox.
• Quote: “I can just see it’s going to be better in every possible way... For one thing, I’ll actually be getting things done, which is nice.” (E, 04:20)
• Lesson: The subtle psychological shift from managing email in the inbox to dedicated folders, “tricking myself” into more control, can be transformative—even after a decade of resistance.

3. Clarifying vs. Working Email; The Power of Rigor (06:13–16:03)

• Holly (D) seeks advice on separating clarifying/organizing from actually “working” emails—especially avoiding the urge to skip around.
• She finds working with her executive assistant in focused “clarification” sessions is far more effective, but struggles to replicate the discipline solo.
• Quote: “When I do that with her, so we’re in the room working my email box together, it feels incredible. And when I’m alone... I just get this tension.” (D, 07:36)
• Other participants share techniques:
  • Only seeing one email physically at a time so as not to be tempted to skip ahead.
  • Thinking of the clarifying session as “single-minded focus.”
  • Using physical reminders (moving things off-screen) or systems to promote the “one at a time” process.

4. Solo Clarifying: Building in Accountability and Support (16:03–17:45)

• Discussion on how to internalize the “accountability buddy” effect of working with others, so you can get the benefits when alone.
• Quote: “There’s another quote... it’s a real meeting with a real assistant. And I delegate everything to my assistant, which is me.” (C, 16:07)
• Holly notes how her assistant forces rigor—prodding her with detailed follow-ups—and wants to develop that internal coach for herself.
• Quote: “I need to treat myself like that and do all those things that feel incredible with myself.” (D, 16:44)

5. David Allen Joins: Anniversaries, Community, and Celebration (18:12–21:12)

• David Allen joins, sharing details of his 80th birthday and the 25th anniversary celebration for GTD, which brought together 80+ people from around the globe, including his original editor, Janet Goldstein.
• Quote: “We could have invited about 300 people... We had about 80 plus people. In an elegant hotel in Amsterdam. And it was wonderful.” (A, 18:28)
• Notes Katherine Allen’s logistical prowess in managing the event—applied “natural planning model.”

6. Q&A with David Allen: Capturing Interruptions & Digital Tools (22:25–26:00)

• New listener Mike asks David how he currently handles interruptions—especially digital ones (Teams, Slack, etc.).
• David shares his continued preference for physical notepads—even in digital times. When using digital tools, he champions Brain Toss (an Amsterdam-developed app that captures voice, text, or image and sends it to email) so nothing gets lost in a digital black hole.
• Quote: “Anybody who thinks all those channels are going to get rid of email needs to grow up... Email is sufficient, always has been and will be forever.” (A, 23:57)
• David reinforces: capture is non-negotiable. Whatever the channel, everything must be captured, clarified, and organized for real control.
• Quote: “That’s the game, you know, that there is no other game than that in terms of getting control.” (A, 25:42)

7. Ticklers, Checklists, and ‘Enough Triggers’ (26:11–end)

• Clayton asks David about his experience with tickler files (reminders for tasks like “lubricate garage door”)—should everything be on a checklist if it’s only a trigger and not a must-do?
• David’s classic minimalism comes through: he uses the world as his tickler for things like chores. If the garage door squeaks, that’s his reminder. Over-management breeds guilt.
• Quote: “I let the squeaking garage door. Tell me. Ah, I don’t have it on a list. ... It creates guilt if you don’t do it... so give it up.” (A, 26:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On email: “Nothing wrong with tricking yourself. There’s so much of this that’s about learning about ourselves and ways to trick ourselves effectively. Trick doesn’t mean bad. It means finding a way to work with yourself.” (B, 04:59)
• On clarifying rigor: “If I focus on this and complete the clarification, then I don’t have to do that again. It’s done... I used to, when I was in the office I would do that triage in the Starbucks line. ... Waiting for coffee was like the thing.” (C, 08:21 & 11:53)
• On digital “inboxes”: “I just turned 80. I still have to do all this. ... If you’re getting any of that... You have to go through the capture and clarify and organize process. That’s the game.” (A, 25:35)
• On what to put on lists: “There’s nothing wrong with having it on a particular file if you want to. It’s just, it creates guilt if you don’t do it that you don’t need... So give it up.” (A, 27:00)

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Useful Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00–02:18 — Multitasking, attention, and driving
• 02:39–06:09 — “E”’s email win and method switch
• 06:13–16:03 — Clarifying vs. working email; building solo rigor
• 16:03–17:45 — Developing an “inner assistant” or solo accountability
• 18:12–21:12 — David Allen’s birthday & GTD 25th celebration recap
• 22:25–26:00 — David on digital distraction, tools, the non-negotiable capture habit
• 26:11–end — Tickler files, checklists, and letting the world be your trigger

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Conclusion

This episode dives deep into making GTD work in the small moments: managing email flow, developing self-accountability, not over-engineering reminders, and sticking to the basics—capture, clarify, organize—whatever your level. With lively community voices and David Allen’s wisdom, the discussion offers both practical tactics and timeless GTD philosophy for practitioners at every stage.

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If you missed this episode, use this summary to inspire tweaks in your own GTD set-up—especially if you’re wrestling with inbox overload, the lure of multitasking, or looking to make your solo process as powerful as working with a coach.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hi, all, this is John Forrester. I'm here for another GTD office hour. Welcome, everyone. This is an open discussion about anything related to GTD productivity. Very informal, and let's see where it takes us. And before we started the recording part here, we were chatting about how one person was saying he was in the car and would only be listening but not trying to speak or get on video. And I said, stop. Let's wait and hold that for when we can talk about it some more. I mentioned the Teo comporole interview that David did years back where that brain expert said that driving takes too much attention to try to get anything done. He said his quote was, getting things done shouldn't happen in the car other than driving. Then we kind of got onto that topic, and I think it was Clayton who just mentioned that even that he'd heard something. Clayton, would you say that again about just even talking to someone else in the car?

[C]

Having a discussion with the passenger next to you in the car is distracting to a greater level than they thought. Yeah, it's not as bad as being on a phone call with someone else who's not there.

[A]

Yeah, they'll.

[C]

They'll stop talking when there's some kind of urgent thing happening if they notice.

[A]

So. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, well, I've had that happen more than once where I. I get to talking or. Or listening intently to what someone else is saying. I'll get to talking and miss an exit and have to circle back or something like that. We can keep talking about this or anything else. And I especially want to give a chance to anybody who, before we got on here, had anything on a list of agenda items to bring up today because I always like to give positive reinforcement to anybody who had an AT webinar at office hour agenda. Welcome, Holly.

[D]

Good morning.

[B]

Good to see you here. Are you in Montana? Did I see that correctly?

[D]

I am. I'm from Oregon and was there and then moved here for work four years ago. So I am. I'm in Helena.

[B]

All right, Anybody have a topic you wanted to bring up?

[E]

I'll say one thing. I listened this week to the old CD collection. It's on audible. It's Getting things done with work and life Balance, I think, is the title of it. And listening to David talk about handling of email, using action and waiting for folders. And I've known about this for 10 years, and I've always resisted the urge to manage email that way, thinking I was going to be able to use some sort of app to trigger response on those that has proven a dismal failure for many years. And it occurred to me this week, listening to that, that I can just put them in there and process them from there rather than my inbox and solve a lot of my problems. So I had a bit of an epiphany. So I'll take that win for the week.

[A]

Great.

[B]

We like to hear about wins. And if it only took you 10 years to find a way that works for you, then I say you're a fast learner. Yeah. There are, there are two sort of methods for handling email that way. One is to put them in an action folder and use the email itself as the reminder. The other is to have a list and use the list as your reminder. They both have pluses and minuses. Some people like one and find one or the other fits better. So I take it you've found that the. This new method works better for you, at least so far?

[E]

Yeah. I can just see it's going to be better in every possible way. For the one thing, I'll actually be getting things done, which is nice.

[B]

Yep.

[E]

The other thing is I won't be constantly working out of my inbox. I keep my inbox pretty clean, but nevertheless I feel like I'm always responding from it and that creates a feeling of overwhelm rather than control, which is I can achieve by just simply moving the emails and then processing from there. It's a really subtle and frankly tricking myself method of feeling better, but it works. That's what's important.

[B]

No, no, no, nothing. Nothing wrong with tricking yourself.

[E]

That's right.

[B]

There's so much of this that's about learning about ourselves and ways to trick ourselves effectively. Trick doesn't mean bad. It means finding a way to work with. Work with yourself.

[E]

Yes. I've had a lot of thoughts just in the last couple of days and I'm thinking I've been making this so much more difficult for myself and I. I just suddenly see. It's almost like a see the light moment. Like, oh, that would be so much simpler for me and less stressful. So that's. It's been a really nice couple of days.

[B]

Great, great. Do you have a fairly high email volume?

[C]

Yes.

[E]

Not super huge, but it's dozens or a couple of hundred per day, most of which I don't have to take any action on. But you have to decide not to take any action on them. That's the trickier part.

[A]

So you can't.

[E]

There's just too many of them to keep up with them. At the rate they come in to move them to another system them to the handle them, it just creates so much extra work that it's over. It's overwhelming.

[A]

And.

[E]

And a, and a blocker.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

I have something really similar on my mind. I've been rereading all of the content about clarifying and organizing and that triaging email is not that. And working on distinguishing the times that we're clarifying and organizing from working in our inbox or through our inbox. And I'm looking for a tip around that. Incidentally, after a couple of years of experiments, I've gotten a really solid way of working with my executive assistants on GTD generally and having somebody else work my, my system. And it's incredible. And one thing she does is when we are working in my inbox on clarifying and organizing, we make sure I'm not working the work. And also she's really, really good at the tip that I reread of Meg's, which is, you know, don't skip around. So you must do something with each email, specifically clarifying and not working it before you go to the next one. And when I do that with her, so we're in the room working my email box together, it feels incredible. And when I'm alone, I know that I need to do that and I still skip around. I just get this tension and I am not comfortable and I want the reward and I tell myself that what I'm doing is just two minute rule work and I skip all over the place and don't do much clarifying. I just work my box. So I'm wondering if people have found ways of causing yourself to stick to that one at a time clarifying only approach like ways of convincing yourself in the moment that it's worth it in the end.

[C]

Well, I've got a, a idea in my head that if I focus on this and complete the clarification, then I don't have to do that again. It's done where if I avoid doing it, it's still there and I've taken time to avoid doing it. So the what, what I came across was a post by Frank, Frank Sopper, about watching David. One of his close associates early on was trained in GTD and watched David process the inbox. And he talked, he said that he just stood there and watched him and he would take one off the top of the stack and he would work it until it's done. He didn't go like grab something else or do something else. He just stuck with it. And then went to the next one sometimes for a couple of days after coming back somewhere and didn't stop from taking care of that clarification. So that image is kind of in my mind of just that single minded focus of don't even I. My inbox is above me so I can't see what's on top. So when I take something out of it, that's the only thing I see on my desk. So those things help me. Not that I'm successful 99 of the time, it's about 50% right now, but, but, but it still got me to 50% instead of, you know, jumping around all the time.

[D]

That's so inspiring. I mean I can envision that and the, the relief it produces is incredible. Do you, do you do what Jeremy does with email? So if you're doing that one at a time only clarifying of email, do you then put it in an action folder or are you then documenting in a different system what it is you've decided the email needs?

[C]

I do triage first. I go through and is it actionable? Do I think it's actionable or do I need more time to decide if it's actionable? And I put it in the clarify context which is just folder and email. And when I get finished clarifying those items, I put a task, I put a reminder in my list manager and I move it to Action support. So all the, all the, all the emails that I have that are, that I've acted on are in action support at least for a period of time. So that's, that's what I do. So I go through them all and there's nothing, there's no fires and so the ones that, so when I'm back in a, in a place where I can actually clarify then I start clarifying them. So but if I have to do it in the moment, then I do it in the moment. I used to, when I was, when I was in the office I would do that triage in the Starbucks line. To just clean every morning. You know, waiting for coffee was like the thing. So we had a Starbucks in the building. So that would, made it a little easier.

[D]

That's awesome. And it, I love that like context when I'm in the Starbucks line. Here's what I'm doing and it is this and it isn't that.

[E]

To clarify a little bit with my email, what I've started doing this week is when I've got emails in my inbox, I'm basically applying a two minute rule roughly and I'M either addressing them immediately, forwarding to somebody else and putting it in and waiting for and what's left over goes into my action folder. So I'm not saying I'm not really clarifying exactly what's to happen with that email that I have to take action on later, but it's in the right place where when I look at it I can decide what to do do it and it just takes me 20 minutes instead of two.

[D]

So once it goes into the folder and it's time to act on it, you find that you can act on it right there without doing some clarifying and noting somewhere else what that is.

[E]

Yes, and I feel like I find that that's what I have to do just due to the volume on any of the ones where the action is that I have to ask somebody something or clarify something, then I've taken the action to actually ask the person and put it in the waiting floor. Because we in the company we work and we basically communicate via email. So I can just send the email with the very crystal. I'll summarize exactly what's below and say this is what I need to know. And then it's waiting for and I usually get a response within a day or two and it's result. But anything where the action is just I have to do something, I roughly know what that is when I put it in the folder and I just know it's going to take me a half an hour to do it or something like that. I have to run some reports, compile them and to email them back or something like that.

[D]

Nice.

[E]

It's kind of fuzzy so it's. Unless I were to just do it one by one, it's hard to describe.

[B]

Ollie, was, was that helpful for what you were asking? I think I heard at least two questions in what you were asking. Are, is one of them still an open question?

[D]

Yeah, I, well I heard fun thoughts about triage and then also about clarifying and then also about doing some two minute work that we can do during clarifying and then, you know, picking it up and working the things with just enough direction to our future self about how to do that. So the thing I want to do next with that is I want to admit to myself when I'm triaging that I'm not clarifying. When I clarify I want to be rigorous about one at a time and not skipping around and then I want to have enough notes when I pick it up and work it that I am doing no clarifying and I know I can Because I can do it when we're together. And when we're together, I'm forced to do only one and I'm pushed. Okay, well, you know, you say you're gonna send a report. When you pick this up, do you have everything you need to send that report? Is there anything I need to pull for you? Do you need to talk to anybody first? Is that really the only thing you need to do? Do you need time block to do it? When do you have to do it by? How long are you gonna need? When should I make sure you're done by? And I love how I feel when I do that. And so I think picturing the way the two of you do it and picturing me doing that solo sometimes is exciting. There's a lot of hope there.

[C]

Yeah, you're doing it with a, with a built in coach.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

When the two of you together, it's like having a coach in the room. There's a, there's another quote that comes from that. Put it on the weekly review. It's a real meeting with a real assistant. And I delegate everything to my assistant, which is me.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm very clear about what they need to do, specific tasks to accomplish, and I, I can review the following week. So it's. So you're treating it like your assistant is still there.

[D]

Yeah, you're right. And that's so much fun. And I guess I just, when she's there, it forces me. She's. She's helping me triage, she's helping me do two minute rules. Like she is helping me delegate to her by assigning very clear things. She has all of my agendas up right that second, and she's actively putting things on them. She's helping me clarify. She's setting the time to do the work and making sure I'll be ready for it when I get there. But yeah, you're right. I, that's. I need to treat myself like that and do all those things that feel incredible with myself. And there's a verbal piece too. Like I, when I hear myself say that out loud, I can't, you know, cheat on it. And she'll push back if I am, which is lovely.

[B]

Yeah, she's been sort of functioning like an accountability buddy for you there. And if you could develop some version of that when you're by yourself, it might, might be good. I got messages while, while you were talking from a couple of people who are trying to get on the thing, and I think we got at least two of them on now. Welcome, Ariadne. And there's this other person who just joined named David Allen. Welcome, David.

[E]

Hello.

[A]

Hi, everybody. Happy to be here. Yeah.

[B]

David, I, I haven't heard much yet about your birthday and 25th anniversary celebration of your book. Can you fill us in on any of the inside scoop on that that just happened?

[A]

Well, we're just. Katherine and I are just about recouping from. From that. You know, we could have invited about 300 people to it. It turned out that. That we had to draw the line somewhere. We had about 80 plus people. Wow. In an elegant hotel in Amsterdam. And it was wonderful. We had a great internationally known jazz pianist provide background music. Mike Del Ferro with the bass player next to him and fabulous food from the hotel and, and all kinds of people that just wanted to meet each other. Just. We had, we had a lot of. It was kind of a combination of the neighbors we've had for the 12 years we've been here in Amsterdam that were just so lovely. And the rest were mostly people from our GTD network connections.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

From Norway and Estonia and Slovenia and UK and Denmark and, And France and, you know, so it was a very international group of people.

[B]

The way I understood it, this was a combination of a celebration of your 80th birthday and the 25th anniversary of the initial public publication of Getting Things Done.

[A]

Yes. And we were joined with my editor of that first edition, Janet Goldstein, who was there with her. Oh, wow. So that was extraordinary and wonderful. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. Haven't heard her name in a while.

[D]

That's amazing. Happy birthday. You say you could have invited 300 people. I'm sure there's 300, 000 people that have been impacted by your 80th and 25 year.

[A]

I guess. But then we couldn't afford a place to hold all those people.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that would be kind of like another summit, but.

[A]

Yeah. Ah, wow.

[B]

Well, good. And I understand now why you're saying it's taken you a few days to recover from. From that. Just recovering from the planning for an event like that.

[A]

Oh, yeah, for sure. And hats off to Catherine to. You know, and she, as you know, she's the queen of logistics and. Oh, yeah, you know, managed a whole lot of that.

[B]

I can imagine that a couple of versions of the natural planning model came out during the last year as you were thinking about this.

[A]

Sure. Yeah. No kidding.

[B]

We've been talking about a few things, including.

[A]

Hold on, I have. I have my little puppy here. She's been clamming on me for some reason. I Don't know why, because she just ate. Phoebe, you just ate. You know, Yay. Say hello to all the people. Yay.

[B]

Oh, David's got Phoebe. Holly, what's your dog's name?

[D]

This is Brutus and he's incredible.

[A]

Yeah, Clayton. And Clayton, who's your dog?

[C]

Rosie. She's. It's short for Testarossa. She's so fast.

[B]

Yeah. I was just telling somebody by email before we started here that sometimes people's family members and pets wander through on these office hour discussions. So, yes, this is special because David's on here. So anybody who's got something that you want to ask, bring up or whatever, push past anything like nervousness or surprise, just push past. Use this guy while you got him here.

[E]

Sure.

[A]

Available. If anybody wants to ask me anything,

[F]

I'll throw my hand up.

[A]

Go for it.

[F]

Clayton.

[C]

You haven't spoken yet. Mike, go ahead.

[B]

All right.

[F]

You know, I was actually just, first time here, new member, going through some of the content and I was actually just last night watching a video, David, of how you were managing your inbox at your desk and how what happens with interruptions and how you kind of logged something like kind of wrote a note immediately put it back in the inbox. And I was just kind of curious. Evidently there was a little bit of time on that video and a more digital application. How do you deal with or what would you recommend in context of dealing with interruptions on a day to day basis? And how do you kind of keep that fluid inbox in that fashion? Or do you still actually still rely on pen and paper in that context?

[A]

Depends. Depends on what it is. I mean, I still have my trusted high tech tool right here, which is always there when I'm on any call like this or anything, because oftentimes things show up and I just make a little note here. And that usually doesn't stay very long. By the end of the day it'll get torn off and processed, et cetera. So it depends. Interruption. Well, I don't, I don't get a lot of interruptions these days other than a little dog.

[B]

Yeah.

[F]

Yeah, I guess I was liking the example into like, you know, teams or slack messages. And you've got the virtual, I go

[A]

screw all that stuff to begin with. Yeah. It's like I don't need any more channels. You know, email is sufficient, always has been and will be forever. Anybody who thinks all those channels are going to get rid of email needs to grow up. Yeah. You know, so. And you know, where whatever, you know, and I have A great little piece of software on my iPad and my iPhone called Brain Toss 2 GPD, or here in Amsterdam, developed it. Because if I happen to be, you know, later at night when I'm sitting with my iPad doing, you know, either playing games or reading stuff or doing whatever I do on my iPad at night and something comes in or an idea comes in, I just click Brain Toss. And I can do voice, I can do text, I can do camera, whatever on it, and it goes right to my email as opposed to the black hole of my digital tool. So that's, you know, I still. Look, I just turned 80. I still have to do all this. That you have to do, you know, come on. I, I, I don't have the volume or channels. Well, I certainly don't have a volume that I used to, given my lifestyle and where I am right now, but I still have to, I still have to do all that. How can you not, if you're getting any of that? As long as you want to be, you know, connected and open to the universe and, you know, whatever it has to serve you or, you know, distract you or whatever, I just still have to go, no, that's trash, though. That's a good thing. No. Well, maybe. What did you think about that? Let me see. And I still have to go through the capture and, and, and clarify and organize, process that, that, that's, that's, that's the game. That's the game, you know, that there is no other game than that in terms of getting control. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

Thanks for the pov.

[B]

And, Clayton, you, you were wrestling with Mike a moment ago about who's going to go first. What do you have to say?

[C]

Well, I, I'm, I have a problem right now with. I've put a bunch of ticklers, electronic ticklers, and they kind of come up randomly every day for things like lubricate the garage door or like, just random stuff. And, and I, I thought I would set up some checklists so that I, it would be a day when I knew I could do them, but I didn't know if there was any, any other thoughts you might have about how. Because they're. My ticklers are just things I want to see, I don't necessarily have to do them, but some of them I do. So they're, it's kind of like there's two different meanings to what a tickler is. So it's, it's that I'm confused about it.

[A]

I'm, I'm not confused about any of that. I let the squeaking garage door. Tell me. Ah, I don't have it on a list. It's like dishes in the sink. I don't have, you know, wash dishes. I just go, hey, dishes in the sink. So that's a sufficient trigger. So, you know, I don't need lists for all the kind of stuff that I'll assume life will let me know, you know, in some appropriate way. There's nothing wrong with having it on a particular file if you want to. It's just. It creates guilt if you don't do it that you. That you don't need, you know, so give it up.