Ep. 367: The Origins of GTD

Summary

Podcast Summary: Getting Things Done – Ep. 367: The Origins of GTD

Date: June 17, 2026
Host: GTD® (David Allen)
Guests: Russell, Dean Acheson

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Main Theme

This episode dives into the early roots and DNA of the Getting Things Done (GTD) methodology. In a reflective roundtable, host David Allen gathers two long-time collaborators, Russell and Dean Acheson, to trace how GTD evolved from their personal journeys, early workshops, and insights into human productivity. Listeners get an inside look at the formative experiences and key concepts that defined GTD, filled with stories, memorable quotes, and practical wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Beginnings & Personal Transformation

• David Allen recounts his path:

  • Took his first “Insight Seminar: The Awakening Heart” in 1978, leading to his collaboration with Russell ([00:11]).
  • “I sort of publish this as kind of a capstone… I wanted to bring two of the guys together that were critical in the development of GTD.” – David ([00:11])
  • The focus was not just on strategy or processes, but deep personal change. Early seminars included concepts like “agreements” and “completion cycles” ([01:14]).

• Russell on the purpose of 'awakening':

  • The goal was not just transformation in appearance, but an authentic awakening of self:
    • “We were looking at letting go of who we are, so who we are can stand forward. That's awakening, not change.” – Russell ([01:46])

2. Influence of Organizational Consulting

• Entry into corporate world:

  • In the 70s–80s, organizational development focused less on strategy, more on honesty and real human connections.
  • “HR and OD… saying, we don't need another strategic plan. We need people to be honest and loving and share and be real people with each other.” – David ([02:53])

• Self-discovery leads to GTD:

  • After 35 jobs, David embraced consulting, seeking models that created lasting improvement.
  • Worked with Dean Acheson, who introduced him to the “mind sweep” and identifying “next actions” – now core GTD tools ([04:10]).

3. The Origin of Key GTD Practices

• Dean Acheson shares roots of the “Mind Sweep” ([06:22]):

  • Realized most people can’t focus on long-term goals because they’re caught up surviving the day.
  • “My goal is just to get through the day. So that's what led to, okay, we gotta figure out where these people's attention's at. So we collect it all together, and then we collect all the stuff out of the brain and all the things you're planning to do… That's really where it started, right there.” – Dean ([06:22])

• Practical application for clarity:

  • The act of listing everything weighing on the mind and breaking it down into clear, tangible next steps; “just that first process solved 90% of the presenting issues for a lot of people” – David ([08:58])

4. Evolution & Measurable Impact

• From insight to measurable improvements ([09:50]):

  • Russell describes the early “PEP” (Personal Efficiency and Productivity) training.
  • Studies inside aerospace industries showed that simply writing down a next action increased throughput by over 20%:
    • “Just write it down, figure out a next step, track it. Duh.” – Russell ([09:50])

• GTD’s Philosophy on Commitments:

  • The importance of recognizing and renegotiating commitments:
    • “The prices you pay automatically for breaking agreements… Trust diminishes instantly. A whole lot of what GTD started to be… was just focusing on agreements.” – David ([10:57])

5. Moving Beyond Traditional Time Management

• Limitations of old productivity systems:
  • Dean critiques “ABC” prioritization, noting that re-sorting and re-evaluating constantly drains energy and focus ([13:30]).
  • The hallmark of GTD is making decisions, not trying to do everything:
    • “You either do stuff or you don’t do it… If you can make that decision, you then you can have your mind like water.” – Dean ([13:30])

6. Freedom, Lists, and Letting Go

• David on the paradox of lists and freedom:

  • “A lot of things I do in my life were never on any list, but I was free to do them because of the list.” ([14:52])
  • Naps and breaks aren’t scheduled; they’re enabled by having clarity through lists.

• Dean uses metaphor of 'Hoarders':

  • People often cling to plans as their “future,” accumulating mental clutter. True freedom means being able to let go and create a better future ([15:46]).

7. Final Reflections and Legacy

• Dean on the multiplying power of GTD:

  • “Every time I come… now I see David, he's got a whole flock full of trains. And I'm thinking, my God, what kind of energy are you releasing out there? … That person could go on and explode the world into a new era.” ([17:06])

• Russell on GTD’s promise:

  • “As each of us learns to handle the stuff that’s on the plate and… receive that deeper guidance, we will be given the gift of even more important work. Why? Because we’ll be able to bring it to life.” ([18:11])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• David Allen:

  • “There was no grand epiphany, just a long string of epiphanets.” ([08:58])
  • “If you looked at my calendar right now, you will not see one nap on my calendar. But I take them as often as I can. That's work as it shows up.” ([14:52])

• Russell:

  • “If you buy a Volkswagen and you put a Ferrari car kit on it, do you now have a Ferrari? No.” ([01:46])
  • “Just write it down, figure out a next step, track it. Duh.” ([09:50])
  • “What value shows up if I do it? What risk do I take if I don't?” ([12:46])

• Dean Acheson:

  • “My goal is just to get through the day. So that's what led to, okay, we gotta figure out where these people's attention's at.” ([06:22])
  • “If you can make that decision... you can have your mind like water.” ([13:30])
  • “That person could go on and explode the world into a new era. I mean, I'm flabbergasted. This event here is awesome...” ([17:06])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:11 – David opens with reflections on the summit and introduces key collaborators
• 01:46 – Russell discusses the distinction between awakening and mere change
• 02:53–06:22 – David explores his entry into consulting; how Dean influenced GTD practices
• 06:22–08:58 – Dean elaborates on the birth of the mind sweep and next actions
• 09:50–10:57 – Russell recounts measurable corporate impacts and agreement management
• 12:46 – Two questions for choosing next actions (value/risk)
• 13:30–14:52 – Dean critiques traditional time management; “mind like water”
• 15:46 – Analogy of Hoarders and future clutter
• 17:06–18:11 – Emotional closing reflections; impact on future generations

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Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, humble, and at times humorous. The speakers invite listeners into their journey, offering both practical advice and deep philosophical insight into productivity, purpose, and self-awareness—highlighting the heart behind the GTD methodology.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode reveals GTD as a human-centered, evolving methodology. It’s not only about efficiency, but about awakening more authentic, purposeful action in life and work. The roots of GTD are found in curiosity, self-discovery, and the power of clarity—principles anyone can apply for less stress and more meaningful productivity.

Transcript

[A]

Well, one thing I absolutely wanted to do at this summit, since it might be the last, certainly that I do. Guys, I'm 73, I don't know how many more miles on my tires there are. But this is as. I sort of publish this as kind of a capstone for certainly my career. But I wanted to bring two of the guys together that were critical in the development of gtd. And I thought those of you especially who already know about the methodology might be nice for you to know where the DNA really came from. First of all, I took the very first insight seminar that this guy put on in Santa Monica, California in 1978, and I looked up, I did that experience called the Awakening Heart. My heart awakened, it worked. And I looked up and I said, I want to work with you. And you know, Russell was Russell back then, and he's still always Russell, but he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Five years later, we shared an office, right?

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Inside seminars. So I had a picture of doing work that was transformative, that help people improve their lives in some way, shape or form. And even that seminar had quite a bit of stuff in it that was fascinating, like agreements, like completion cycles, as well as a lot of other stuff. So that was sort of my first introduction. Russell, tell me, tell them, tell us. Share about what the first few years of that were like and this, this kind of material.

[B]

Well, I think it's important that David mentioned we called insight. We didn't know there would be more insight. This was supposed to be one off and so we just called it the Awakening Heart. Not mind, body, emotions, but heart. So that tells you something right away. We too use the term awakening purposefully. This will be obvious in the first part and obvious in the second part. Except the second part, we rarely think about. A thing that awakens was previously what, Asleep. A thing that's asleep was previously awake. So all personal transformation work going on then and most now was about you have to change and be different. Well, if you buy a Volkswagen and you put a Ferrari car kit on it, do you now have a Ferrari? No. Transformation in the dictionary simply means a change in form or appearance. So we were looking at letting go of who we are, not so who we are can stand forward. That's awakening, not change. So this is what this was really all about.

[A]

And just on a practical basis, with 35 jobs, by the time I was 35, I didn't know what the frig I was going to do in my life and desperately tried to find it out. So this was A lot of the beginning of my own self awareness training and opening, and opening to, okay, what might my intuition say would be the thing to do. And so through that process we got in the corporate training world, got interested in all this personal growth stuff. Back in the 70s and 80s, a lot of people in HR and OD who had that kind of inclination anyway were saying, we don't need another strategic plan. We need people to be honest and loving and share and be real people with each other. We work better that way. So Insight Seminars actually got invited in to do some of its work inside of that big corporate training world out there in the US anyway. Some the UK too, I think. So we began to do that and Russell and I, we created Insight Consulting Group. So the two of us could sort of do that meanwhile. I'll do the meanwhile pause button. I started my own. After 35 jobs, consultant or flake or the two options, I took the hopefully positive route. So I hung up my shingle. I like to be a good number two guy, help guys start businesses and so forth. And I go in and look around, see what they were doing. I said, how much easier could we do this? I'm Mr. Lazy. Anyway, so we'd fix it. Then I get bored. They call that process improvement now. So I get bored and I go leave, go find another job. Then I discover they call those people something. They pay them, you know, consultant couldn't spell it. Now I r one right all out. And Associates hung out my shingle, 1981. So now I'm hungry for. Okay, as lazy as I am, I didn't want to have to make it up every time I worked with a new client, you know, in case I couldn't figure out what to do. So I thought it'd be really nice to find some model that kind of worked. So if it wasn't clear what to do, I could pull something out of my back pocket and walk people through this and it would improve their condition, right? So. So it turned out right about that time I met this guy called Dean Acheson, had been a consultant. Dean, you could say, whatever. 25 years doing executive consulting and organizational change. I brought Dean a client. He said, hey, by the way, David. And I guess Dean, you could say this, I think he sort of took to me and he said, this little kid, okay, I'll be willing to teach you what I know. Let's just do this organizational change project together. So I hung out with Dean for probably two or three years. Dean, we did several projects then too. But this is the guy who taught me, I sat down, I wasn't in trouble. My life was okay. It wasn't like this. Didn't you know, GTD didn't come out of me and be in some painful event. But Dean said, let me show you what the first part of this process is. And he sat me down and did a mind sweep with me. Now, I thought I had my shit together, but then I'm looking at that going, oh, my goodness gracious, look at that. And I had such an incredible experience. And then he also taught me, now let's. And I wrote them all down on separate pieces of paper, credit, a huge stack. Stuff of my brain got emptied. Then he had me walk through each one of them, pick it up, and go, what's the very next action, if there is one? So the whole idea of Minesweep and next actions, which many of you know is core. Core stuff to the GTD process came from that guy right there. Dean, your comments.

[C]

Oh, it started with a couple of guys, three or four guys. We were trying to figure out organizational change, a model that would work for organizations. And, you know, it makes sense. If you're going to work with an organization, you better find out where they want to go. You don't want to take them where they don't want to go. So we're looking for goals. So I'm thinking, okay, let's get together and figure out what the goal is you have for this organization. That's a good starting place, right? So I would go in and I'd say, okay, we're gonna start here on figuring out a goal. How far do you want to look into the future? Well, I say, as far as you can. Can you look five years, two years, one year, six months? And people would look at me and say, you see my desk? I'm trying to survive the afternoon. So my goal is just to get through the day. So that's what led to, okay, we gotta figure out where these people's attention's at. So we collect it all together, and then we collect all the stuff out of the brain and all the things you're planning to do. Y' all know that stuff. And that's really where it started, just right there. It was like that became the first program that we would do it or project that we did with any of the. Of the organizations, because it was, like, across the board, very few people, you know, were clean. I have run into a few people that I have run through this program, and, you know, three hours later, they're right where we started. I mean, they are already doing it. You know, I've run into a few people like that. It's like a natural to them for me, I mean, I had to work at finding it. But then we made a little picture book. And what I liked about the picture book, I still use that picture book. And the reason I use it is because when I'm sitting down with a client, I don't want my head on anything. I don't want to even have to remember the process. I don't want to have to remember what I'm doing or think about what I'm doing. So I'm just sitting there blank, but awareness. So those of you who are doing coaching, you know, you really have to be in a space where you hold the space for the other person. And so what I do with the book is I say, okay, read through page 12. Okay, then 13 through 16. I don't remember what they are now. I don't even remember that. I walk around with not much remembering anything, to be honest with you. But anyway, that's. That's where it all started, my friend.

[A]

And the funny thing about that is that that process was just to clear the deck, clear the air, so that the key people and the whole organization could actually move without residue to get rid of the drag on the system. Turns out that just that first process solved 90% of the presenting issues for a lot of people because all they had to do was to say, I got a problem. Well, great. What's your next action? Oh, I guess I have to talk to my boss. Great. How would you do that? And so just the process of getting clear and getting all those things clear started to teach people how to get in the driver's seat of their work and their life. And I began to recognize that. And so that became just the core of what my own consulting practice was that ultimately grew into what we now know as gtt. There was no grand epiphany, just a long string of epiphanets.

[B]

One of the things that happened along the way is that David and I were thinking about, well, what could we do about helping people be more efficient? And we came up with this training that our spiritual teacher gave us a name for. And he called it pep. Pep. Personal efficiency and productivity. Put a little pep in your life. And about that time, Dean's influence came in, began thinking about this whole notion of next actions. Fast forward a couple of years. We've got this incredibly elegant Danish design organizer. I'm sitting on a plane with the head of OD from one of the big aerospace companies. David and I start doing tons of work inside of the aerospace organizations. 12,000 people in one, 15,000 in another. And they did studies on throughput and found that simply the act of writing it down, defining a next action and either putting it on a list or scheduling it with time and date, if that's what it was, accelerated throughput by over 20% on the average. Just write it down, figure out a next step, track it. Duh.

[A]

Yeah. And the duhness to all of this is also a strange paradox. I mean, this is not like running with scissors, right? There's nothing dangerous about this, but a lot of the elegance of what this is about. Back to a big key as part of Insight training and a lot of the personal growth trainings was agreements. The prices you pay automatically for breaking agreements. That's not a choice. You break an agreement with me or with yourself instantly. Trust diminishes instantly. That's an automatic price you pay. And a whole lot of what GTD started to be, and we only spent a small portion of the insight seminar just focusing on. It's a critical piece. Obviously, if you don't want to break any agreements either, don't make them called no someday, maybe, whatever, keep them, finish those suckers or renegotiate them. So as Russell said earlier, you know everything. But listening to me right now is someday, maybe the more that you looked at your backlog, the more that you looked at all of your commitments, by the way, at all the multiple levels. You have them right now and you do. Most people are not aware of how many would, could, should, need, to's, ought to's, really ought to, really need to need to do that stuff. It is huge. I know because we spent thousands of hours, one on one with some of the busiest and brightest people on the planet, having them start to objectify their commitments so that then they could not make them, finish them or renegotiate them. And that's where a huge amount of power comes from. Gtd, It's a whole lot of what it's about is just identifying those things. And it's not about going and finishing all that. It's about looking at all that and going, no beer is better.

[B]

You know, there's two really powerful questions that if you don't know them, keep them in mind. Whenever you choose something from the next action list before you choose to work on it, ask yourself this, what value shows up if I do it? What risk do I take if I don't? Now, earlier we Heard about having a shit list that's always good for. I call it brain dead list. Doing the nitpicky stuff. What value shows up, what risk do I bear? That alone will help you weed out a bunch of stuff so it doesn't become getting everything done. It's about getting the right things done, the strategic things done. The ones that make a difference worth making. Not just make a difference. Is it a difference worth making?

[C]

Back in those days, in the early days, some of you may remember this, and some of this is before your time, but, you know, they used to have efficiency programs and then they had productivity programs, and then they had time management programs. And what they all were were just ways to. Most of them did this, most of them said, well, prioritize things. A, B, C priority. That's a good one. Yeah. So ABC priority. Here's what happened. You get all your A's done and you get half your B's done. And then the next day you got a bunch more stuff and you got to reevaluate everything. So you have to go through everything again because some of the Cs may have become as. You have some emergencies in there sitting there now. And now you got to evaluate it with the new stuff that came in. So you got to go through the whole stack again. And if you're just doing your A's and part of your Bs, you're spending all your time on Cs going over and over and over and over and over it, you know, and that's where we came up with, okay, we got to get the C's out of the way, and we got to get the B's out of the way and then you can work on the A's. That's kind of how it goes. You got to get everything done or not. It's a decision. You either do stuff or you don't do it one or the other. And if you can make that decision, you then you can have your mind like water.

[A]

Yeah, well, a lot of things I do in my life were never on any list, but I was free to do them because of the list. That make sense? I was free to do them because I went, no, I'm going to do this. If you looked at my calendar right now, you will not see one nap on my calendar. But I take them as often as I can. That's work as it shows up nap. That's a power nap. You don't want to take a nap to avoid your life. You want to take a nap for all those Reasons we've heard today. You know, the way to take a break, the way to, as Theo says, to let your archive brain work again. I just thought I was a sleepy, lazy guy. But no, now I know we've got it together. It's archiving, folks.

[B]

Professional archives.

[C]

If you've ever seen the Hoarders program, I'll just give you a little tidbit here of how I think about things. I mean, I kind of think about things in an audible way, I guess. But the Hoarders program, what happens there? People are trying to get these people who they think they're living in the past, and in a way, they are, but in that person's mind, they're actually living in the future, because what they're doing, they get all these things and they put them in. I'm going to plan, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do that. And then pretty soon you've got a room full of stuff you're going to do. That's their future in their mind. So we look at it as their past, and they say, no, don't take it away from me. That's my future. You know, I think that perhaps if somebody, you know, figured out for these poor people that have to crawl over the top of these things going through the rooms, if somebody kind of maybe worked on that and figured it out, you know, they might be able to give these people a substitute feature, future, that they might be able to let go of this stuff, you know, I don't know, but, I mean, that's what I find in a smaller scale, you know, a little lesser scale with most people today in business, really, that's what happens.

[A]

So final words, guys on gtd, what happened? Where we're going? What's cool? Anything?

[C]

Oh, well, I always felt like. I mean, I spent a lot of time in Texas, I mean, Colorado now. And I always felt David and I would run up to get each other about, I don't know, every 10 years or so. Russell, I haven't been with you for a lot longer than that. But I always felt like I was a cowboy riding out there alone under the radar, didn't even know what radar was. And David has a train, and he's over there pumping on that train. And every time I come, every 10 years, a decade or so or whatever it is, and I see David now, he's got a whole flock full of trains. And I'm thinking, my God, what kind of energy are you releasing out there? You know, because everything you release, think of what you're releasing with that person. I mean, that person could go on and explode the world into a new era. I mean, I'm flabbergasted. This event here is awesome, and you guys are awesome. I just want to hand it to you for that.

[B]

Thank you. To me, one of the most. And it will happen again. Well, see what happens to me. I just call it the spirit comes in. And it's so joyful that it's sometimes hard to speak. The promise that you represent each of you with the enabling tools of GTD is as each of us learns to handle the stuff that's on the plate and at the same time, open the space to receive that deeper guidance, we will be given the gift of even more important work. Why? Because we'll be able to bring it to life. This world needs it. You. 76, 72, 73, 32, 42. Who's going to be here on this stage 30 years from now, helping the next group of people awaken, enliven, make differences worth making. Those are you and those who you will touch. Seven generations.

[A]

Thanks, guys.