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- [00:02]
Narrator
Lemonade.
- [00:12]
Eric Roper
When I first started learning about Harry and Clementine Robinson, I found out they were part of a wave of black families who lived in this part of Minneapolis in the early 1900s. And I knew they were gone by 1940.
- [00:25]
Narrator
Almost all this time, he had been trying to figure out what happened to them. And now he knew.
- [00:31]
Eric Roper
After more than a decade of resisting the pressure to leave their home in southwest Minneapolis, they lost their fight.
- [00:40]
Melissa Townsend
But what Eric still didn't know was what happened to them. Would Harry and Clementine be able to pick themselves back up and regain all that they had lost?
- [00:52]
Narrator
And what does the rest of the story tell us about the place where George Floyd would die in 2020?
- [00:59]
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- [01:30]
Eric Roper
You're listening to Ghost of a Chance from the Minnesota Star Tribune. This is the story of my search to find out what happened to Harry and Clementine Robinson. I'm Eric Roper.
- [01:41]
Melissa Townsend
I'm Melissa Townsend.
- [01:42]
Eric Roper
This is episode five.
- [01:46]
Narrator
One day when Eric was digging around for details about Harry and Clementine, he found an interesting little feature in the Minneapolis Journal newspaper. It was from New Year's Day, 1931.
- [02:01]
Eric Roper
Yeah, it's dated January 1st. And it looks like the paper had this section where local businesses could post, you know, a New Year's message. The owner of the Globe Realty Company, for example, said, greetings to friends and patrons. The people behind the Foo Choo Cafe said happy New Year to all. And the owner of the Little Dixie Sandwich Shop, which we know, of course, is Harry Robinson, wished, quote, prosperity and happiness in 1931.
- [02:30]
Melissa Townsend
But Harry's wish for prosperity wouldn't come true.
- [02:33]
Eric Roper
In March that same year, he placed ads to sell the business and. And in July, Clementine and Harry lost their house to foreclosure.
- [02:42]
Melissa Townsend
It was the 1930s. The Depression was taking a huge toll on the whole city, but especially on the black community. We knew black residents were already at a disadvantage.
- [02:59]
Narrator
Eric found a survey from 1926 that.
- [03:02]
Melissa Townsend
That said half the companies surveyed would not hire a black worker.
- [03:08]
Narrator
And it looks like the Depression was only making that worse.
- [03:12]
Eric Roper
So by 1936, the Minneapolis spokesman and the St. Paul Recorder newspapers have opened that Year the papers reprinted an editorial about how discrimination has increased against black people in their jobs. And that even so called Negro jobs. Porters, waiters, et cetera are no longer available. The editorial said, quote, unemployment spreads, and in every section of the nation, the Negro is fast becoming a jobless race, Unquote.
- [03:42]
Narrator
A man named A.B. cassius was living in the city at the time. You might remember him from a previous episode where he talked about what it was like to be a waiter in Minneapolis back then. In that same interview, he talked about the job situation for black men during the Great Depression.
- [03:59]
A.B. Cassius
Department stores, Daytons, didn't hire no blacks. The glass block, which was famous throughout the world, they hired no black. That meant that you could walk all day downtown in Minneapolis and see three or four porters washing windows. That's all.
- [04:19]
Narrator
He said construction work was off limits. Some men did service work on cars, but they weren't paid fair wages. The jobs on the railroad and in the hotels were still there, but there were fewer of them.
- [04:31]
A.B. Cassius
If you weren't doing that, you were on relief. Direct or indirect. Of course, on relief, then you could live off of $15 a week.
- [04:42]
Narrator
By relief, AB Cassius meant unemployment assistance or welfare. Eric couldn't find any data about the number of people on relief in Minneapolis. But he did find that in 1932, nearly half of St. Paul's black population was receiving government assistance.
- [05:04]
Melissa Townsend
Eric wanted to know how Harry and Clementine were handling the depression. They were 50 years old. So he went to the city directory.
- [05:14]
Eric Roper
We know that by 1932, Harry had luckily found a job as a waiter. And Clementine had reported that she was a hairdresser again. So they're back to these jobs that they had started with roughly 25 years earlier.
- [05:27]
Narrator
The city directory also told Eric that Harry and Clementine hadn't found a new place to settle in.
- [05:34]
Eric Roper
I can see in the directory that starting in 1932, they're moving around from place to place. It looks like they live in two different places in two years. And I think it's safe to say that they're renting these places.
- [05:47]
Narrator
We know that they had money troubles. That's why they lost their house. So maybe it makes sense they didn't.
- [05:53]
Melissa Townsend
Go out and buy a new place right away.
- [05:55]
Narrator
But why was it that they were moving around so much? What were they looking for? When Eric told me the addresses where they were renting, I realized that these places were near their old house. And I thought, well, maybe they were trying to stay in that southwest neighborhood. But when we talked about this with historian Kirsten Delegarde. She said by the time the 1930s rolled around, that probably wasn't possible.
- [06:25]
Kirsten Delegarde
Any contemporary writing publication written by black people from the 1910s through the 1950s, they all talk about the tightening restrictions. You know, that it is absolutely impossible for black people, certainly, to buy a house, but even to rent a house or occupy a house outside of those zones that have been identified as black.
- [06:51]
Narrator
We knew that at least one neighborhood association in southwest Minneapolis was trying to keep out black residents. But Eric told me about another even more violent situation in another part of the city right at the time Clementine.
- [07:05]
Eric Roper
And Harry were losing their house in 1931. Arthur Lee, who is this? He works for the post office. He's a World War I veteran. Arthur and his wife Edith and their daughter Mary move into this house in south Minneapolis.
- [07:20]
Melissa Townsend
And again, this is not southwest Minneapolis where the Robinsons used to live. This is a different part of the city a few miles east of there.
- [07:28]
Eric Roper
So initially, this follows a trajectory that we are familiar with. Where the neighborhood association comes in, they don't want black people in the area. They actually have sort of a voluntary agreement among the association not to sell to anyone who is not white. And they're sort of seeing if they can buy him out. But then this erupts. I mean, crowds are forming, paint, and rocks are being thrown at the house. The mayor's office is involved. It's on the front page of the papers. And Arthur Lee hires Lena Olive Smith as his attorney. Now, we know that Lena is a good friend of Clementine's, and notably, she was the first black female attorney in Minnesota. And at this point, she was the president of the local chapter of the naacp, and she is prepared to fight this thing. There are also people inside the house who are preparing to defend Lee and his family.
- [08:24]
Melissa Townsend
Eric found a recording of a man who was part of that group inside the house. His name was Raymond Cannon. You might remember him from a previous episode where he talked about how his family had moved to Minnesota before it was even a state. In that same recording, he said that when trouble erupted at the Lee house, he joined up with a group of men that were headed over there.
- [08:47]
A.B. Cassius
We got out there to Lee's home, and after we had identified ourselves, we were admitted. There was one man standing, sitting in the dark front room, big picture window, you know, with a rifle across his knees. Two or three others were in there armed.
- [09:05]
Narrator
According to Raymond Cannon, things died down that night. But then a few days later, Arthur's wife Edith got an anonymous phone call saying 6,000 people were going to come that night and storm the home. This group that he was a part of went to the chief of police and pleaded with him to do something. But that night, Raymond Cannon says thousands of white people gathered in front of Arthur Lee's house and on his lawn. Everyone was on edge. And then Cannon said, just in the nick of time, a fire truck came screaming down the street and the engines.
- [09:39]
A.B. Cassius
Pushed in the crowd and people began falling back, you know, and letting them through. And the firemen were pulling what was that around, and they couldn't see any fire, see. So finally the crowd got good natured and began to boo the fire on them and make fun of him. And when the apparatus drove away, the crowd dispersed.
- [10:03]
Narrator
Arthur Lee and his family managed to stay in that house for a few years. Then Arthur missed a payment on his.
- [10:09]
Eric Roper
Contract for deed, and ultimately they have to move and they leave this house.
- [10:15]
Melissa Townsend
Kirsten Delgarde had said it was nearly impossible for black residents to rent or own a place outside a neighborhood that was considered black. And now we understood what she meant. We already knew the southwest side of the city was antagonistic to black families, and Eric has evidence that that continued into the 1930s. And as the Lee family found out, this was also happening in other parts of the city. I can imagine that's why Clementine and Harry were moving from place to place. They didn't want to be cordoned off into a segregated neighborhood. So where would they be able to settle down? That's after the break.
- [11:05]
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- [12:14]
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- [12:49]
Melissa Townsend
In the 1930s, on top of the difficulties caused by the Great Depression, discrimination against black residents in Minneapolis had continued. So Eric wondered, how and where would Harry and Clementine land on their feet? In one of our conversations with historian Kirsten Delegarde, she told us that around this time, there were basically two neighborhoods in Minneapolis where it was relatively safe for a black family to live. One was on the south side of the city, not as far south as where Arthur and Edith Lee tried to live, and the other one was in the north side of the city.
- [13:29]
Kirsten Delegarde
So the near north side is the largest black neighborhood in Minneapolis. And everybody who lived in the neighborhood, who studied the neighborhood, who did business in the neighborhood, talked about how conditions were terrible. There was massive overcrowding. The buildings were dilapidated. Most of the living units didn't have running water. There was sewage running in the streets. People didn't have any place to dispose of their garbage, so. So they would throw it in the backyard. There were dead animals.
- [13:58]
Narrator
You get the picture.
- [13:59]
Kirsten Delegarde
Black leaders were appalled and protesting constantly about this.
- [14:04]
Melissa Townsend
But the neighborhood on the south side was different. This neighborhood is now called the Old south side.
- [14:13]
Kirsten Delegarde
The Old south side is a very stable, very integrated, racially integrated. It's seen as a black neighborhood, but reality, it's an integrated neighborhood.
- [14:21]
Narrator
Some black elders who lived there talked about having neighbors who were Jewish or Japanese or white.
- [14:27]
Eric Roper
And in 1934, this is the neighborhood where Harry and Clementine finally settled down. I don't think a lot of people today know sort of how vibrant and racially diverse this community was back in the day, and importantly, that it was home to this emerging black middle class. I mean, there were blocks and blocks of modest but nice stucco and clapboard hood homes. And this whole neighborhood was organized around this one little commercial area that everybody called the Corner. And this is at 38th street and 4th Avenue. And they rent a house just a block from the Corner they're on 37th street and 4th Avenue.
- [15:07]
Melissa Townsend
Eric thought they must have been relieved to find a home in a more welcoming community. But at the same time, they had.
- [15:14]
Narrator
Fought so hard for so long to.
- [15:17]
Melissa Townsend
Stay in that predominantly white neighborhood. All those black families had. So what was it like for them?
- [15:24]
Eric Roper
I haven't found a note or a letter from Harry or Clementine about how they felt about moving into a more racially diverse neighborhood. But I did find something from a man named Nelson Peary. He was a teenager in the Old south side during the 1930s and he wrote about his life in a book called Black Fire. Unfortunately, we don't have an old recording to play for you. But I do want to share this one passage about the Old south side. He's describing the first time that he went to services at the local African Methodist Episcopal Church, which we assume is St. Peter's AME, which is still there in south Minneapolis. A buxom woman stepped forward. The pianist struck a few melancholy chords to give her the key. And the woman began to sing a cappella.
- [16:15]
Narrator
We asked Minneapolis based actor Regina Williams to play the part of this woman. Singing like a motherless child.
- [16:26]
Regina Williams
A long.
- [16:29]
Eric Roper
Way.
- [16:32]
Regina Williams
From home A long way.
- [16:46]
Eric Roper
From.
- [16:47]
Narrator
Home.
- [16:50]
Eric Roper
Sometime Here he goes on, I knew at once that these songs, rooted in the slave pens and shacks of the Delta were mine. They made me feel a deep sadness, but I also had a feeling of pride and warmth. As far as I knew, aside from the discrimination, these songs were all we Negroes had in common. They held us together and formed a kinship wherever we found one another.
- [17:16]
Regina Williams
I feel like a motherless child.
- [17:29]
Melissa Townsend
It seems that what Nelson Peary was saying was that there wasn't just sadness about the circumstances or anger over the injustices or fear about the future. I mean, there were all those things, but there was also connection. And he said it was a connection you could feel in the community.
- [17:48]
Narrator
Especially on the corner at 38th street and Fourth Avenue. He wrote about it in his book.
- [17:55]
Eric Roper
The Dreamland cafe, which sold 3.2 beer and served short order dinners, was owned by Anthony Brutus Cassius. Everyone liked this barrel chested, pockmarked, light brown skinned bull of a man. Cheerful and honest, he always conducted himself as if he were responsible to and for the people of our neighborhood. Sam Pantel owned the grocery. He overcharged everyone to make up for what he lost, giving credit to his destitute customers. Chris Christiansen's shoe shop always hired a black kid as an apprentice shoemaker. Brownie, the brown skinned lady barber, sold policy slips and her shop was the gossip center of the community. She charged 25 cents for a haircut.
- [18:44]
Narrator
It sounds like a nice tight knit community. There was kindness and laughter and joy. It had been nearly three years since Clementine and Harry had started over in the old south side. They were both 53 years old. And finally it looks like Clementine was beginning to act like her old self again.
- [19:06]
Eric Roper
I started to see her name in the black newspapers again.
- [19:09]
News Reporter
A new chapter of the Order of the Eastern Star, Prince hall affiliation Minnesota jurisdiction was organized Sunday, May 27, 1934.
- [19:18]
Eric Roper
The Eastern Star is a fraternal organization related to the Freemasons. It's an opportunity to be with other like minded black women.
- [19:25]
Narrator
She was also part of the local chapter of the Council of Negro Women.
- [19:30]
Eric Roper
They are promoting black women. And so clearly Clementine still has an emphasis and a focus in the success of black women. Just like the Business Women's club back in 1921. She's still involved in things like that.
- [19:45]
Narrator
She was hosting guests and socializing again. And there was one especially prominent guest.
- [19:51]
Eric Roper
Her brother Gideon is becoming very famous in Kansas City. He's a doctor and he has a lot of connections here in town. And he would come here and the papers would talk about how he was, quote unquote, continuously entertained.
- [20:05]
News Reporter
En route to the Mayo clinic at Rochester, Minnesota. Dr. Gideon Brown, prominent Kansas City physician, stopped over in Minneapolis to visit his sister, Madam H. Robinson. Monday night, a large portion of Minneapolis society called at the Robinson home to extend a welcome to the distinguished Missouri doctor.
- [20:25]
Narrator
Very nice.
- [20:26]
Eric Roper
Clementine's professional life was also getting a boost. There's this clip from the Minneapolis spokesman newspaper in 1935.
- [20:34]
News Reporter
Mitzi Green, famous screen star and actress. Playing in person this past week at the State Theater. Was attended by Madame Robinson, well known masseuse of Minneapolis.
- [20:43]
Eric Roper
I should note that the actress Mitzi Green was white.
- [20:46]
News Reporter
In other visits to this city, Mitzi Green has always been attended by white professionals. And the fact that Madame Robinson was chosen this time is complementary to the ability and well established reputation of this Minneapolis businesswoman.
- [21:03]
Narrator
While Clementine was all over the newspapers, Harry was absent throughout the 1930s and 40s. There were years he was listed as a cook or a caterer in the city directory. But then there were years he was listed with no occupation. Eric scoured the papers, but he found only one article.
- [21:22]
Eric Roper
So there's one point in 1943 where there's a birthday party and it's attended by or it's thrown by a number of the quote unquote old Residents. And Harry Robinson is among the old residents.
- [21:36]
Narrator
And that's all we knew about Harry. Kind of weird.
- [21:39]
Melissa Townsend
Meanwhile, we know from the papers that Clementine got some additional schooling in the 1940s, and Eric found a record of her working at the University of Minnesota Hospital.
- [21:51]
Eric Roper
She's listed in the 1950 census as working as a nurse's aide.
- [21:58]
Melissa Townsend
Eric thought this seemed like a pretty big deal for Clementine. She had had that job with Dr. Farr back in 1916, but there was so much employment discrimination that it seemed unlikely she would get another one. So Eric wondered, how did Clementine manage to land this job? He did some digging, and he found that right around this time, Minneapolis began to outlaw racial discrimination in hiring.
- [22:23]
Eric Roper
A couple years earlier, Hubert Humphrey had been elected mayor of Minneapolis, and he is really coming in on a civil rights platform. Here's a mayor who is listening to the plight of black people in the city and also Jewish people in the city who are being discriminated against. But one of the big things that comes out of the Humphrey administration is that Minneapolis is one of the first cities in the country to ban discrimination in employment.
- [22:48]
Narrator
Not everyone was happy about that.
- [22:49]
Eric Roper
There's literally like an attempt on his life during this process.
- [22:52]
Narrator
But for the black community, it worked.
- [22:55]
Eric Roper
After that happens in 47, some jobs start to open up because it's now illegal to discriminate against black people. This is around the exact same time that Clementine is finding work as a nurse's aide at the hospital.
- [23:09]
Melissa Townsend
And then Eric told me that in 1952, when she and Harry were both 71 years old, they did something surprising.
- [23:20]
Eric Roper
I found the notice in the Minneapolis Spokesman. That's the local black newspaper.
- [23:24]
News Reporter
The H.W. robinsons have moved from 4th Avenue south to East 40th Street.
- [23:29]
Eric Roper
It's a very small notice, but a very big deal. First of all, this address is still in the old south side neighborhood. And I don't know if they couldn't move out or they didn't want to move out, but they're sticking around. And second, they're not renting. They bought this house.
- [23:46]
Melissa Townsend
Eric was surprised because Clementine and Harry were in their 70s. It had been 18 years since their last move. But he was also surprised because he learned that at the time, banks were making it difficult for black people to get a mortgage to buy a house.
- [24:03]
Eric Roper
This is known as redlining, because back in the 1930s, local banks and real estate industry professionals had helped make these maps of the city. And the core of the Old south side is colored in red and the red is labeled as hazardous. And so basically banks and the whole real estate industry were saying that the racially integrated and black neighborhoods were the riskiest places to lend money. And that included the old south side.
- [24:35]
Melissa Townsend
So Eric did some digging and he found that Harry and Clementine were able to buy this house because they got some help from a white couple.
- [24:44]
Eric Roper
So it's actually interesting. What we know is that the former owners of the house were the Le Brun family and they were white. And it seems that the Le Brunes wanted the Robinsons to have this house and they co signed essentially on the mortgage with Harry and Clementine.
- [25:00]
Melissa Townsend
If at some point Harry and Clementine couldn't pay this house loan, the Le Brunes would be on the hook for it. But Eric doesn't know who the Le Brunes were.
- [25:10]
Eric Roper
Yeah, I mean the lebruns are one of the mysteries of this story. I mean the idea that the former owners of this house are saying like, we are going to co sign on a loan with these buyers. The Le Brun seem to have sort of put their faith in the Robinsons in this transaction.
- [25:27]
Melissa Townsend
Eric showed me a current picture of the house on Zillow.
- [25:31]
Eric Roper
It actually just sold. So this is the house? Oh yeah, it's up on a little hill. It's a more modest home. It feels a little bit more modern. It's like much.
- [25:40]
Melissa Townsend
It's one story.
- [25:41]
Narrator
It's smaller than his.
- [25:42]
Eric Roper
Yeah, it is one story.
- [25:43]
Narrator
And it looks like the main rooms may be all on one level. Maybe they're trying to like not have.
- [25:48]
Melissa Townsend
Stairs in the house because they're like old now and they're having a hard time getting around.
- [25:53]
Eric Roper
Maybe.
- [25:58]
Melissa Townsend
They were getting older, maybe they were sick. It wasn't clear. But then Eric came across a News article from 1959 and it answered all the questions he'd been asking. That's after the break.
- [26:18]
Narrator
Foreign.
- [26:27]
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- [28:00]
Eric Roper
Eric.
- [28:00]
Narrator
Couldn'T find much about Harry's life during most of the 1930s, 40s and 50s, except for that one social gathering in the newspaper in 1943.
- [28:09]
Eric Roper
But then I came across an article that helped me understand what was going on. It was in the Spokesman newspaper and it was dated May 1, 1959. It wasn't actually a news article, it was an obituary.
- [28:26]
News Reporter
Harry Robinson, 76, a Pioneer resident of Minneapolis, died at his home Saturday evening, April 25 after a prolonged illness. The deceased was born in Mitchell, Indiana, and had resided in Minneapolis for over 55 years. He had been in failing health since 1935 and for the past eight years had been hospitalized intermittently.
- [28:48]
Eric Roper
I looked up Harry's death certificate and it says that he died from rectal cancer.
- [28:53]
News Reporter
His only survivor is his wife, Mrs. Clementine Robinson, to whom he had been married for 50 years. The couple would have observed their 51st wedding anniversary on May 2, 1959. The remains were cremated Tuesday, April 28 at Lakewood Cemetery.
- [29:11]
Narrator
Eric actually found out that he requested his ashes be scattered in the Mississippi River. We asked a lot of people about this and we heard that it was very rare for a black man to be cremated at that time. And it was even more peculiar because Eric knew Harry had bought a burial plot in a local cemetery.
- [29:33]
Eric Roper
The records from the company that owns the cemetery show that Harry and Clementine had bought two adjoining cemetery plots. So why did he Decide to get cremated. Well, I think what may have happened is that he and Clementine may have had some discussion where he said, okay, finances are tight. The burial plot is technically an asset. So I'm going to be cremated. And then when you need to, you can sell the grave site. So this is sort of a financial ripcord, you know, pull in case of emergency.
- [30:03]
Melissa Townsend
We don't really know if that conversation.
- [30:05]
Narrator
Ever happened, but after all that they had been through, it's nice to think about Harry trying to look after Clementine after he was gone. Maybe it was his way of saying thank you to her for taking care of him for all those years.
- [30:21]
Eric Roper
I remember when I first found the obituary. I was really shocked at how long Harry was sick toward the end of his life. I mean, it was really sad. And this happens really right after he loses his business. So again, just very sad. And I just hope that at the end that Harry had some things that brought him peace and joy. I kind of hope that he's hanging out down at the barbershop, sipping coffee, you know, talking to some old friends of his down there. You know, maybe he goes to church, finds community there. Maybe when he's home sick, that there's some sort of picture pet, you know, that he's nurturing that brings him some comfort. Or maybe he's watching the birds come and go and that that brings him some peace. I don't know. I just hope after such a challenging life that he had something good at the end, even though it sounds like he was probably in a lot of pain.
- [31:14]
Melissa Townsend
Right after Harry died, Clementine put a note in the Minneapolis spokesman newspaper.
- [31:21]
News Reporter
Mrs. Clementine Robinson desires to express her sincere appreciation and thanks to the many friends who were so kind and thoughtful during the illness and death of her beloved husband. I shall ever remember and cherish them in my heart. Sincerely, Mrs. Clementine Robinson.
- [31:41]
Narrator
It was 1959. Clementine Robinson was living alone in her very own house for the first time in her life. She was 78 years old, surrounded by the old south side black community. There are people alive today who lived in that neighborhood right alongside Clementine Robinson. Eric has talked with a number of elders who grew up in the neighborhood. He spent the most time with a man named Greg McMore. This is Greg giving Eric a tour of the neighborhood.
- [32:16]
Greg McMore
Right on this spot were a row of businesses across the street from where I am right now. There was a mosque, mom and pop, grocery store.
- [32:26]
A.B. Cassius
All businesses.
- [32:27]
Narrator
He was born in 1953. That was before Harry died.
- [32:31]
Greg McMore
Record store, barbershops, hairstylists that kind of thing, which really gave to the community. Obviously.
- [32:38]
Melissa Townsend
Greg also remembered the Dreamland Cafe, just like Nelson Perry did.
- [32:43]
Eric Roper
The owner, Ab Cashes, actually opened up another club right down the block, and it was called the Nacarema. And if that sounds a little strange, well, that's because it's American spelled backwards. How's that for a statement?
- [32:57]
Melissa Townsend
That kind of reminds me of the Little Dixie Sandwich Shop when I asked.
- [33:04]
Narrator
Greg to come into the studio for a conversation.
- [33:06]
Greg McMore
Does that sound all right?
- [33:07]
Narrator
That sounds good. He described the Old south side. This was the community that Clementine's generation.
- [33:13]
Greg McMore
Built back in the 60s. There was always the ideology that people of color and black folks should invest in their communities because we couldn't depend on the outside influence to do that. That's where we felt supported by each other, and that's the community that we built.
- [33:42]
Melissa Townsend
It sounds like when Clementine and Harry moved into the Old south side in 1934, it was an emerging black middle class neighborhood. But by the time Greg was there in the 1950s, it was well established.
- [33:56]
Eric Roper
I read a city report from 1966. It's called Minority Housing in Minneapolis. And it really kind of highlights the Old south side. It says that the neighborhood was, quote, composed of slightly older and definitely more stable Negro families. It parallels the city white population in education, income and employment rates. Only in occupational status do its Negro residents appear less advantaged. End quote.
- [34:24]
Melissa Townsend
From all that Eric had learned, it sounded like the Old south side neighborhood was a space for black people to escape the threats and harassment and suspicion. One person we talked to even called it sacred space. But it's also clear that one of the downsides of living in this segregated neighborhood was that it was isolated. White people and people of color had few shared experiences. AB Cashus talked about this in that old interview he did. He was the owner of the Dreamland Cafe in the Nakarima.
- [34:57]
A.B. Cassius
The thing in Minnesota was that the blacks didn't know the whites and the whites didn't know the black because there was nothing to assimilate them or bring them together.
- [35:08]
Melissa Townsend
In our conversation with Greg McMore, he talked about what it felt like to be in the middle of all of that. He says outside his neighborhood, he felt self conscious and uncomfortable. In fact, he still feels that way.
- [35:21]
Greg McMore
We probably have our own language and our own way of behaving and acting, but once we walk outside, we're walking into another world. And I have been conscious of that. I have been conscious of that pretty much my whole life. Living in Minneapolis, I'm Conscious that I'm the only person of color and made to feel that way. When you get that certain look, you know about what, who is that person? Which is a suspicion. Who's that person? All about.
- [35:57]
Melissa Townsend
It seems like this feeling of alienation was part of what black leaders in the 1920s were battling when they were battling against segregation. They knew the black experience was invisible at best and vilified at worst. And this was a big problem. A woman named W. Gertrude Brown gave a stunning speech about this very thing in 1925. Eric found a copy. You might remember Ms. Brown from a previous episode. She was the first head resident of the Phillis Wheatley Settlement House in north Minneapolis. She was also Clementine and Harry's friend.
- [36:39]
Eric Roper
So it's 1925 and W. Gertrude Brown is at this conference for social workers. It's at the University of Minnesota, St. Paul campus. And the crowd was mostly white. And it seems like she knows that they don't know much about what it's like for black people in Minneapolis at the time. So she starts with a little introduction.
- [36:57]
Narrator
We've asked Minneapolis based actor Regina Williams to read this for us.
- [37:04]
Regina Williams
I wish it were possible for me to tell you the many disadvantages under which the Negro labors in an urban community. Since that is impossible, I want to call your attention to a few of the most serious handicaps.
- [37:18]
Melissa Townsend
She went on to detail the ways black residents were being pushed aside.
- [37:23]
Regina Williams
The question may be asked, why hasn't the Negro accumulated more? Has it ever occurred to you that he hasn't a ghost of a chance? Have you ever stopped to think that every real money making avenue is closed to him?
- [37:40]
Melissa Townsend
Her whole speech is truly remarkable. We'll include the full recording in a bonus episode, but for now I want to skip to the ending.
- [37:48]
Narrator
This is where she asked the social.
- [37:50]
Melissa Townsend
Workers to open their minds.
- [37:55]
Regina Williams
The Negro is not understood and few are willing to take a little time and learn about him.
- [38:03]
Narrator
And then W. Gertrude Brown recited a poem. It was written by a man named Edgar Albert Guest. It's about the importance of getting to know people who are different from you.
- [38:16]
Regina Williams
When you get to know a fellow, know his joys and cares. When you come to understand him and the burdens he bears. When you learn the fight he's making and the troubles in his way. When you find that he is different than you thought him yesterday, you find that his faults are trivial and there's not so much to blame in the brother that we jeered at when you only knew his name. We are quick to see the blemish in the distant neighbor style when we can point out all his errors and may sneer at him the while and our prejudice sharpen and our hate more violent grow Often talk about the failure of the man we we do not know. But when drawn a little closer and our hands and shoulders touch, we find the traits we hated don't really amount to much.
- [39:17]
Melissa Townsend
But Eric found that city and state leaders in Minneapolis and Minnesota did not create plans for racially diverse residents to draw a little closer so their hands and shoulders could touch. Despite Hubert Humphrey and other people's efforts to reduce discrimination, racial segregation only got worse. And in the 1960s, city and state leaders did something that would end up segregating the south side of the city even more. And Clementine Robinson could see it happening right from the front stoop of her little house on the hill. That's next time.
- [40:00]
Greg McMore
When you want to talk about generational wealth, it's got to start somewhere. And when you live in some of the kind of communities that we do, and you're kicking your behind all the time, it makes it difficult.
- [40:14]
Narrator
This is Ghost of a Chance. Our website is startrebune.com Ghost of a Chance. There you can see pictures and documents.
- [40:23]
Melissa Townsend
From the podcast, and you can also.
- [40:25]
Narrator
Sign up to receive news about discussion guides and events. Our email is ghostofachancetartribune.com get in touch if you have a question or feedback or a tip related to the Robinson story. We'd also love to know if this.
- [40:40]
Melissa Townsend
Story motivated you to do something in.
- [40:42]
Narrator
Your community, so let us know. You can help pay for this incredible story and others like it with a subscription to the Minnesota Star Tribune. Go to our website startribune.com Ghost of a Chance is reported by Eric Roper.
- [40:57]
Melissa Townsend
And written and produced by me, Melissa Townsend.
- [41:01]
Narrator
Our executive producer is Jenny Pinkley. Our editor is Mary Jo Webster. Fact Checking by Eric Roper and Mary Jo Webster Sound design by Marcel Malakeboo. Our contributing editors are Star Tribune Managing Editor Maria Reeve and Star Tribune Editor and Senior Vice President Suki Dardarian.
- [41:20]
Melissa Townsend
Legal review from Randy Lebedoff. The art for our show comes from Anna Boone and Brock Kaplan.
- [41:27]
Narrator
Special thanks to Kendall Harkness, Zoe Jackson, Laura McCollum, James Schiffer, Nancy Yang, Casey Darnell, Laura Yuen, Tame Danger, and members.
- [41:37]
Melissa Townsend
Of the local community who served as our adv.