The Headstone

Summary

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Ghost of a Chance – Bonus Episode 3: "The Headstone"

Minnesota Star Tribune | November 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this moving bonus episode, reporter Eric Roper and co-producer Melissa Townsend detail the journey from investigating the lives of former Minneapolis homeowners Harry and Clementine Robinson to finally unveiling a long-overdue headstone for Clementine—whose grave had gone unmarked for six decades. Through community action, conversations across divides, and collective reckoning, the episode explores how uncovering local Black history can galvanize a neighborhood, bridge generations, and contribute to the city’s ongoing dialogue about race and remembrance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins of the Headstone Project

• Eric Roper shares the catalyst for the headstone: visiting Crystal Lake Cemetery and being struck by Clementine’s unmarked grave.

  "Why am I here at Crystal Lake Cemetery? Well, this is where Clementine is buried, but there's no marker." (01:00)

• Community members, including listeners, advocated for action:

  “I wish there was a way to honor Mrs. Robinson with the grave marker she deserves.” (09:23) “Are you collecting funds to purchase a headstone for Clementine Robinson? If so, I'm willing to donate.” (09:37)

• A GoFundMe campaign was launched on what would have been Harry and Clementine’s shared birthday (May 2).

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2. Community Reception: Validation and Skepticism

• Ralph Crowder, a respected member of the local Black community, initially felt skepticism toward Eric and Melissa’s work as outsiders telling an insider story—but ultimately felt the podcast handled the material responsibly.

  “We're so used to our stories and our pain being exploited, especially by mainstream media. ... But I think the way you handled this responsibility, I grew to respect it.” (04:15, 05:40)

• The podcast also prompted reflection and discussion in Eric’s own, mostly white, neighborhood.

  “How come we didn’t know about this?” — Neighbor, Sandy Parnell (06:53)
  “For a lot of particularly white people in the community, this was new information. ... That is the success.” — Eric Roper (08:39)

Timestamped Segment

• 03:34–05:51: Ralph Crowder’s skepticism, reflection, and ultimate endorsement

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3. Intergenerational Reckonings: The Blake School Encounter

• A poignant segment unfolds when Tracy Grimm, a teacher at the Blake School, unexpectedly discovers her own great-grandfather was mentioned in the podcast as a leader who actively pushed Black residents out of Southwest Minneapolis.

  “I started listening to this one, and at the very end, I think it was episode two, I heard a name referenced, and it was Ewan Cameron.” (12:07)
  “Ewan Cameron was my great grandfather.” (12:35)

• Tracy candidly reflects on the discomfort:

  “It doesn't feel good to know that someone who is part of your family is making life hard for other families. ... It just made things so hard and unfair for their neighbors of color.” (14:21)

• Yet, she processes this in the context of her own ongoing work to understand and teach about privilege.

Timestamped Segment

• 11:19–16:22: Tracy’s realization, family conversation, and personal reflection

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4. Teaching Hard History: Fourth Grade Action

• Jason Benjamin ("Mr. B"), a fourth grade teacher at an elementary school in a historically white neighborhood, invites Eric to speak about the Robinsons’ story and explores local racial covenants with his class using Mapping Prejudice maps.

  “When you teach hard history, you want to be careful. ... There's something called ‘safely in, safely out.’” — Mr. B (18:36) “The kids were really engaged with looking at their house and the houses near their house and connecting that back to today.” (20:28)

• One student, discovering a racial covenant on his own home, wrestled with guilt and discomfort. His mother, Kate Manthey, discusses balancing honesty and reassurance.

  “He just said, ‘Mom, there's a racial covenant on our house…’” (21:33) “Things happened that weren't right. How can we make it right? How can we be better?” — Kate Manthey (22:16, 22:22)

• The class raises money for the headstone with a change jar, ultimately donating $100, inspiring parents to give as well.

  “We raised, I think, like $76, and then I just bumped it up to 100 to make it look good on the GoFundMe page.” — Mr. B (23:11)

Timestamped Segment

• 17:01–24:45: Classroom visit, Mapping Prejudice activity, and the change jar fundraiser

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5. The Headstone Unveiling: A Communal Ritual

• On a hot October day, dozens gather at the cemetery: neighbors, church members, podcast listeners, descendants of Clementine, and choir singers.

  “Today we come together in an act of love, an act of remembrance and celebration to unveil the headstone of a truly remarkable woman.” — Rev. Dr. Tracy Gibson, St. Peter’s AME (28:02)

• Rev. Dr. Gibson and others speak to Clementine’s legacy:

  “She was a force of nature, a skilled dermatologist... and a vibrant socialite.” (28:18) “A headstone serves as more than a marker ... It's a symbol of dignity, resistance, and remembrance.” (33:34)

• Descendants unveil the headstone; emotions run high as they reflect on finally closing a historic gap:

  “This is beyond, like, the story it tells of Minneapolis. It's really just a personal story. And it's filling in a lot of gaps of my own family history.” — Bridget Marsh, great-grandniece (39:03)

Timestamped Segment

• 27:13–39:32: The ceremony, family reflections, and the symbolism of the headstone

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6. The Broader Significance: Memory, Action, and the Future

• The episode emphasizes that memorialization is more than symbolic, but foundational for community repair and ongoing education.

  “Some people may say a headstone is just a drop in the bucket, but someone told me that it takes a drop to eventually create ripples, and I think we're seeing those ripples already.” — Melissa Townsend (39:32)

• Ralph Crowder offers a final reminder:

  “These kinds of things are not necessarily meant to be a one off ... some of these things have to be revisited to explain where we are now and potentially where we're going.” (40:34)

Timestamped Segment

• 39:32–40:52: Community legacy, ripple effects, and the need for sustained reflection

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Memorable Quotes

• Ralph Crowder (on outsider storytelling):
  "We're so used to our stories and our pain being exploited, especially by mainstream media. ... But I think the way you handled this responsibility, I grew to respect it." (04:15, 05:40)

• Rev. Dr. Tracy Gibson (at the unveiling):
  "Today, we not only honor Clementine, but also her beloved husband, Harry Robinson...a sacred moment of reflection and tribute.” (28:50)

• Tracy Grimm (on family reckoning):
  “It doesn't feel good to know that someone who is part of your family is making life hard for other families. ... It just made things so hard and unfair for their neighbors of color.” (14:21)

• Eric Roper (on collective action):
  "So 60 years after her passing, we're here today to grant one of Clementine's final wishes." (31:54)

• Melissa Townsend (on commemoration's power):
  "A headstone serves as more than a marker... It's a declaration. It's a promise that you mattered and you will not be forgotten." (33:34)

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Episode Timeline: Important Segments

• 01:00 — Clementine's unmarked grave and the roots of the campaign
• 03:34–05:51 — Ralph Crowder’s critique and ultimate validation
• 09:23–10:03 — Community calls for a headstone, GoFundMe launched
• 11:19–16:22 — Tracy Grimm's revelation about her great-grandfather
• 17:01–24:45 — Mr. B’s classroom, Mapping Prejudice lesson, kids’ change drive
• 27:13–39:32 — Cemetery ceremony: choir, speeches, descendants, unveiling
• 39:32–40:52 — Reflection on impact and the importance of ongoing reckoning

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Tone & Final Reflections

The episode is intimate, candid, and profoundly respectful—blending honest discomfort with pride and hope. The hosts and participants speak plainly about the complexity of confronting the past. The story is driven equally by grassroots momentum, personal reckoning, and the desire for a more truthful, engaged present. The episode moves from sadness and absence to joy, presence, and a deeper sense of community—a journey shaped by acknowledgment, action, and shared responsibility.

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For more resources and to see photos from the episode, visit: startribune.com/ghostofachance

Transcript

[A]

It's morning in New York. Hey, everybody, I'm Andy Patinkin.

[B]

And I'm Kathryn Grody.

[C]

And we have a new podcast. It's called don't listen to Us.

[A]

Many of you have asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people. Don't listen to us.

[C]

Our take it or leave it advice show is out every Wednesday, premiering October 15th.

[B]

A Lemonada Media original.

[A]

Lemonada.

[B]

Previously on Ghost of a Chance.

[A]

My question would be, is this more than a listening piece for the 30.

[B]

Minutes while you're driving on your way someplace, or what?

[A]

Now, black folks have had conversation forever. What is the actionable steps that will.

[C]

Come from this conversation?

[A]

Why am I here at Crystal Lake Cemetery? Well, this is where Clementine is buried, but there's no marker.

[B]

Eric knew that Clementine wanted a headstone, so he asked the cemetery attendant, is.

[A]

It typically just because there wasn't enough money or family or something like that to get a grave marker?

[D]

Yeah, I would say so. I would guess so.

[A]

So we gathered a small committee of community members who you heard in the podcast, and we launched the GoFundMe on Harry and Clementine's shared birthday of May 2nd. You're listening to Ghost of a Chance from the Minnesota Star Tribune. This is the story of my search to find out what happened to Harry and Clementine Robinson. I'm Eric Roper.

[B]

I'm Alyssa Townsend.

[A]

This is bonus episode three.

[B]

Hey there. I'm with the Star Tribune. I'm Melissa from the podcast. When people asked us what kind of action would come from the podcast about Harry and Clementine Robinson, we didn't know what to say. But when the idea came to buy a headstone for Clementine, that felt like a very real, concrete action.

[E]

It's just sad to have such a remarkable life then just disappear.

[B]

And that's why a group of us were gathered at Crystal Lake Cemetery on a beautiful day in early October.

[E]

So I'm here to celebrate the ancestors.

[B]

We were there to unveil Clementine's new headstone.

[F]

The Saints are.

[B]

It was an incredible scene, but you can't fully appreciate just how incredible it was unless you understand what led up to this moment. It all started pretty much as soon as the last episode was published on February 10th. Coincidentally, that's Eric's birthday. Mark your calendars.

[A]

When we put this out, I was reaching out to neighborhood organizations. I started speaking at churches. I was trying to make people aware of the story. And eventually I linked up with Ralph Crowder and Ralph Crowder's family Has a long history in the Old south side. And so, you know, he's respected in that community.

[B]

So Eric told me he and Ralph got together for coffee. As you know, Eric and I are both white, and neither of us is from Minnesota. And we were trying to tell a story about the black community here, so we were worried would it accurately reflect people's experiences? We had lots of meetings in the community to make sure we were getting it right, but still, we were anxious.

[A]

And one of the things that he said to me was that when the podcast came out, he was skeptical. He was prepared to really scrutinize it. So I'm sort of thinking like, okay, I hope this is gonna land on a good note.

[B]

I wanted to find out if it did land on a good note. So I asked Ralph Crowder to come into the studio. He said he had a conversation with you, and you said you didn't wanna like it.

[D]

Yeah, I was being very attentive. I would be on the treadmill at times at the Y, keeping up every Monday. And, yeah, you're right. There's parts of me that did not want to necessarily receive it. We're so used to.

[B]

Why is that?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, we're so used to our stories and our pain being exploited, especially by mainstream media, if you will. And so my critique. Or pause, and fully accepting this as a sincere effort is valid. You know, I mean, Ralph told me.

[B]

He was born in 1971. That's about six years after Clementine died. And he told me that there just aren't that many stories out there, especially in the mainstream press, that show his neighborhood as he remembers it.

[D]

There was something there that felt vibrant, you know, like you can walk down the hill and see black men playing tennis. And simultaneously, you can see a very competitive hoop game at the same time. And I remember different people's names like Big George. And Big George had a Volkswagen, had an old school Volkswagen bug, but he had a Superfly grill in the front of his Bug. I think some people might remember what I mean by that. If you've seen the movie Superfly.

[B]

Suffice to say Ralph was skeptical when he was listening to each of the episodes of Ghost of a Chance. But I was happy to hear that in the end, he was pleasantly surprised.

[D]

It's an interesting lens to be an outsider telling an inside story. And sometimes that can be done in certain ways where the perspective is valuable.

[B]

If you get it right.

[D]

Yeah, if you handle that responsibility. And I think the way that you handle that responsibility, I grew to respect it.

[B]

Ralph is one person from the old Southside community. But hearing that he thought we did the story justice. That mattered, and it was a good sign that the black community might embrace this story. Now, you may remember that Ralph's old neighborhood in the old south side is separated by a freeway from the wealthier, predominantly white part of town in southwest Minneapolis. That's where Eric lives. So not only were we concerned about the response from the black community, but Eric specifically was concerned about his neighbors.

[A]

As we were working on it over many years, in the back of my head, I'm thinking, I wonder how they're going to react to hearing this very unpleasant history about this neighborhood.

[B]

There were so many people talking amongst themselves inside their home. We'd see people on the street. It was a conversation that people were having. Sandy Parnell is one of Eric's neighbors. She lives right around the corner from him. It was a confusing time, like, how.

[F]

Come we didn't know about this?

[B]

What does that mean about who we are now? And I think that led to the natural, like, why don't we create a collective space so more people can hear what other people are saying so you don't feel so alone? So Sandy got together with another neighbor, Karen Hegard, and they organized a neighborhood meeting at a local sandwich shop called Clancy's. They actually worked it out with the owner of Clancy's that they would stay open late for this meeting. The owner was into it. Is Sandy in here? Did she come in? Oh, okay.

[A]

So we're ready. We're ready.

[B]

The sandwich shop was packed. 54 people signed into the event.

[A]

Sandy and I are super glad that you're here.

[B]

It was a great turnout. I'm going to turn it over to Melissa and Eric.

[A]

Well, thank you all, and can we give it up for Sandy and Karen? I mean, like, seriously, I'm going to turn it up a little bit here. Oh, is that too much? Yeah. I mean, part of the struggle in making this podcast was that I really do love my neighborhood and I love my neighbors, and I think Sandy and Karen really, like, exemplify what's great about Kingfield. So that was.

[B]

The group was mostly white people, and they related to the story, and they wanted to hear more.

[F]

Hi, my name is Jacqueline, and I grew up about 10 blocks south of.

[B]

Where Mrs. Robinson ended up after her husband had died.

[F]

Listening to the podcast explained to me a lot of about what I experienced, who my classmates were, why some people moved away. It was fascinating for me to learn that part of the history of the neighborhood.

[A]

I think it's clear that for a lot of particularly white people in the community, this was new information. And so to me, that is the success, is to have people aware of something that they were not aware of, but and to sort of go through the world making decisions with a much better perspective about what happened here.

[B]

You were sort of monitoring the Ghost of a Chance email account. I wasn't. At the same time Eric was having coffee with Ralph and talking with his neighbors, he was getting emails.

[A]

So it was just kind of like people would send a note.

[B]

This is where the idea for the headstone started to take root.

[A]

We got an email here. Thank you for all your hard work bringing this to a wider audience. I wish there was a way to honor Mrs. Robinson with the grave marker she deserves. I appreciate your tenacity getting as full. I found another note here. Your Ghost of a Chance podcast has been very informative and engaging. Are you collecting funds to purchase a headstone for Clementine Robinson? If so, I'm willing to donate funds toward that project. Thanks for the extraordinary.

[B]

So eventually, Eric got together with a group of people who have roots in the Old south side, Lisa Crawford, Bill Wells, and Greg McMore specifically. And they started a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for that headstone that all those people wanted for Clementine Robinson. Everyone we talked to thought it was a good idea.

[D]

I think it's honoring a life contribution.

[B]

Ralph Crowder.

[D]

I think it would be a wrong sign if we didn't close some doors with Mr. And Mrs. Robinson in terms of marking their life.

[B]

Were there other people who maybe weren't as open? Like, were there angry people or people who were critical?

[A]

If those people exist, they have not presented themselves to me, which is a possibility, right? Because people have negative thoughts. Maybe they don't always share them. But there was one situation in particular that could have gotten tense and somewhat awkward.

[B]

That's after the break.

[C]

Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my.

[A]

New show, this Life of Mine, I.

[C]

Sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth, from Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore to David Beckham to Cynthia Erivo to Martin Scorsese to Jeremy Renner to Denzel Washington to Kim Kardashian. We talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations, full of stories that you've never heard before. This Life of Mine premieres October 21st.

[A]

Wherever you get your podcasts right. So we were presenting here at the office to a group of students from the Blake School, which is a sort of higher end private school here in the Twin Cities. And it was actually sort of toward the end.

[E]

Yeah, there was time for one more question.

[A]

And my co worker, someone was raising their hand, and one of her colleagues said, oh, you should definitely call on her.

[E]

And she was pointing to me. And I wasn't even sure I wanted to fess up at this point.

[B]

This is Tracy Grimm. She was the woman raising her hand that day.

[A]

So I was like, hey, yeah, what's up?

[E]

And I said that I listen to podcasts all the time. I started listening to this one, and at the very end, I think it was episode two, I heard a name referenced, and it was Ewan Cameron.

[A]

Cameron was one of the leaders of the South Central Community Club. The protest meeting was held in their clubhouse, and the other leader of that club led the protest meeting to oust black residents from southwest Minneapolis.

[E]

I said, ewan Cameron was my great grandfather.

[A]

There's been a couple points over the course of this project where I sort of nearly fell out of my chair, if you will, even though I was standing in this case. And this was one of those moments.

[B]

After our meeting, I went to see Traci because I wanted to get the whole story. We met at her office at the Blake School.

[E]

I never heard one of my relatives mention on that podcast before, so it wasn't the greatest way to hear it, but, you know, here we are.

[B]

Tracy showed me a scrapbook filled with memorabilia from Ewan Cameron's life. There's a letter from fdr. So when Tracy was listening to the podcast as it was coming out, and she heard his name, it was a huge surprise. And the first thing she did was call her mom.

[E]

And I was like, is it possible that this is Great grandpa? And my mom said, yes. My dad was also on the line, and it was my dad who said, yeah, that. That makes sense. That adds up. Neither one of them was surprised.

[B]

So what did you know about him before this? Like, what was your impression of your great grandfather?

[E]

He was completely revered in our family. He obviously wasn't alive when I was alive, but his stories and his legend were very much alive.

[B]

Traci told me her great grandfather made his money in insurance. He founded the Cameron Insurance Agency. He was also a state representative, a state senator.

[E]

He was also the president of the International Lions Club. I think that's how he got to kind of move in those higher circles.

[B]

After that phone call with her mom and dad, Tracy did something else that I frankly find surprising.

[E]

Well, I use humor a lot, and so I Kind of just kept referring to my racist grandpa, like, oh, my podcast with my racist grandpa. But that's more to hide. Like, oh, I don't like this feeling. It doesn't feel good to know that someone who is part of your family is making life hard for other families. And that's kind of how I felt about it. It's like, why? I mean, it just made things so hard and unfair for their neighbors of color.

[B]

Who did you tell?

[E]

Well, I am not known for keeping feelings and thoughts to myself, so probably anyone who would was listening. I was like, listen to this. It was more like a. I'm not proud, but I'm not taking it personally, if that makes sense.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This does make sense to me because Tracy told me she has already spent a lot of time thinking about race and discrimination and her own privilege.

[E]

So I've worked at Blake for 22 years, and I think pretty much from the get go, confronting racial issues was something that was a priority. The first thing I really remember is reading the book White Like Me and having the author come and speak. And that really started opening my eyes to, like, oh, not everybody gets this privilege. And I have looked around and seen examples of, like, I'm treated differently. I'm sometimes treated better because of this.

[B]

It sounds like when she heard Ewan Cameron's name in the podcast, she had a framework that helped her take it in.

[E]

That's part of him. It's part of our family, and I think it's important to acknowledge and accept and do better him.

[B]

It was a few weeks after we first met Tracy at that meeting with her school faculty that Eric's small committee started the GoFundMe campaign to raise money for a headstone for Clementine Robinson. And when Tracy Grimm heard about the GoFundMe, she donated $100 and she says she wants to do. While Traci Grimm was digesting this news about her great grandfather, there was a teacher in another part of town trying to figure out how to share the story of Harry and Clementine with his class. Eric told me it all started with an email.

[A]

After this story had come out, I got an email from a guy named Jason Benjamin. Now he's a fourth grade teacher at Burrow School. And this school is in the southwest part of the city where we know that residents were active in excluding black people from living in the early 1900s. He wasn't going to have them listen to the podcast, but he wanted me to just come and give a presentation. So I said, yeah, totally. I mean, I'M I'm basically saying yes to everything. To this day, people want to have me come talk about this project.

[B]

What was your reaction to talking with the fourth graders?

[A]

I tried. I'm not really used to talking to fourth graders, but I tried to make it relatable and say, like, how many of you all live in an old home? And this was like, oh, I do. And they were all chatting with each other all of a sudden. Like, I kind of lost control at that point because they were all chatting with each other.

[B]

That's hilarious.

[F]

I got stuck shoving my back.

[B]

I recently went to visit Jason Benjamin in his classroom to ask him about it. I found out his fourth graders sometimes call him Mr. B. Now, his students are 9 and 10 years old. So I wanted to ask him, did he think this was maybe a little over their heads? I mean, it's serious stuff.

[C]

You would be surprised. You know, fourth graders want to know if there was fairness or unfairness, and they want to know if they can fix it. So they do want to know those stories.

[B]

But Mr. B told me he did need to set the stage before Eric came in, especially because this story hits so close to home.

[C]

It was right in our neighborhood. And so when you teach hard history, you want to be careful. And there's something called safely in, safely out. And so what that means is you want to sort of set the scene to tell the students, hey, we're going to talk about, you know, some hard history. And you might have some feelings that, you know are sad feelings or something of a reaction. Do you want to hear about this story? And they're like, yeah, I want to hear about this story. And then once you alert them to that, I sense that they know that if I need to take a break or if I, you know, need to share some feelings. Okay, Mr. B is ready for that.

[B]

So the day that Eric came in, the students were ready to hear some hard history, and it went great.

[C]

They sat on the carpet for 45 minutes, which is something, if you're a teacher, you definitely don't plan for that. But they were so good, and they were just really engaged in that story that he was telling.

[B]

And then he went online with his students to a site called Mapping Prejudice. Mapping Prejudice has actually been a key resource for us in making this podcast. So the whole class looked at a map of their neighborhood, and this map shows which properties have racial covenants in their deeds. If you remember, a racial covenant is language that was put in the deed of some properties, and it prohibited the sale of that property. To anyone who wasn't white.

[C]

And guess what? They're all over our neighborhood, the Burroughs community neighborhood.

[B]

The properties with racial covenants are colored green on the map, and there were a lot of green houses.

[C]

And the kids were really engaged with looking at their house and the houses near their house and connecting that back to today, why our neighborhoods are predominantly white and the school is predominantly white.

[B]

Were there any young people at that moment who were like, I don't want to talk about this. I don't like this. This doesn't feel good.

[C]

There was one student whose house was green, and the color green indicates a racial covenant, and he was feeling a little bit like, am I racist? Does that mean I'm racist?

[B]

I imagine that student with the greenhouse may have felt confused. What does this mean? That my house is part of this story about discrimination and unfairness. This feels bad. What do I do with that?

[E]

Yeah, he gets a little worried about feeling like he's done something wrong.

[B]

This is Kate Manthey. She's the mom of that student in the greenhouse. She remembers her son coming home that day. We agreed not to use his name. Do you remember what he said?

[F]

He just said, mom, there's a racial.

[E]

Covenant on our house, and just was.

[F]

You know, a little quiet. He's kind of a quieter kid, so a little quiet about it, but definitely made it known.

[B]

And Kate works in real estate, but she had no idea there was a racial covenant on the house.

[E]

I explained that, you know, this took place a long time ago, you know.

[F]

And we would never tell someone they couldn't buy her house because of what.

[E]

They look like or who they were. So. But, yeah, he gets a little worried.

[B]

Her goal was to strike a tough balance with her son. She wanted to reassure him, but at the same time, confirm that racial discrimination is real.

[E]

You know, things. Things happened that weren't right, and how.

[F]

Can we make it right?

[E]

How can we be better?

[B]

Back in the classroom, Mr. B. Was saying a lot of the same things.

[C]

We kind of sat everybody down, and we had a pretty good conversation.

[B]

So it was right around this time that the GoFundMe campaign was launched to raise money for the headstone for Clementine Robinson.

[C]

I asked, hey, what do you think? Should we take up this action? And they were, of course. Of course, unanimous. Like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it was the opportunity Mr. B was looking for to give his students a chance to do something.

[C]

So he told his students, find all your loose change. We'll collect it for a week or a couple weeks and see where we're At.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

He said, we're gonna collect all our change.

[E]

So we had a little change jar out.

[B]

Kate Manthey.

[E]

And it was such a proud moment.

[F]

That they could bring in all of their change to help.

[C]

We raised, I think, like, $76, and then I just bumped it up to 100 to make it look good on the GoFundMe page. And I was from the class of 312. And I noticed, too, if you go back to the GoFundMe page, various parents saw that and contributed to it as well.

[B]

Mr. B told me that this is what he meant when he talked about safely in and safely out. When you're teaching hard history, this is the safely out part.

[C]

It's important to discover or find joy. And so that was a joyful moment for us.

[B]

Eric, you were following sort of the contributions to the GoFundMe campaign pretty closely. Did you see that contribution from room 312?

[A]

I first saw an email that Jason sent me saying that this was happening and describing them dropping the pennies. I think there was sort of a. A thing of water, right? Isn't there water? And then they were dropping it in. There was a cup on the bottom.

[B]

Oh, we made, like, a little game out of it.

[A]

I thought there was a game here where there was, like, a water at the bottom, and I should look at it. But the point of the GoFundMe was to really make a group effort out of this headstone, and Jason had actually taken it and sort of disseminated that effort even into a larger landscape of children who were giving spare change within a group effort. It was a bigger group effort. You know.

[B]

I don't know all the stories of all the people who donated to the headstone or listened to the podcast, but these few have been incredibly gratifying to Eric and to me, especially, because we know it doesn't always go this way.

[A]

When we do stories about race and discrimination, particularly on social platforms, there are people who chime in saying that we are stoking racial tensions.

[B]

I've heard this too. People often say, leave the past in the past. There are actually initiatives nationally to stop telling these stories in public spaces. But in our experience, we need to know the past to better understand the present. But it can be uncomfortable. It seems like the key is to have a foundation to move through the discomfort. That's what we heard with Tracy Grimm. She's in a community at Blake School where they are talking openly about privilege and discrimination. And in Mr. B's classroom, where his students are learning to move safely. In and safely out of this hard history. And it looks like when you have this foundation, there can be tremendous joy and satisfaction. When you hear a story like the Robinsons and you realize there's something you can do to right a wrong. That's after the break. Hello, I'm Gretchen Rubin. And I'm Lori Gottlieb. We're two friends, one a happiness researcher and the other a therapist, and we are here to tackle the problems of everyday life with all of you, from big issues to small. We'll share advice and fresh perspectives, and we'll also highlight responses from you, our listeners, to the questions we discuss. Whether it's that pet peeve that's been bugging you for years, a tricky dilemma, or just something you've always wondered about. When the since youe Asked podcast from Lemonada media premieres on September 23rd. Wherever you get your podcasts, finally, the day had come. 60 years after Clementine was laid to rest. We were about to unveil her brand new headstone.

[A]

So we're at the cemetery. We're about to begin, and we it was a beautiful day. It was nearly 90 degrees in early October, which was unusual. There's a lot of cars there trying to figure out where we're headed. So I get in my car and I had like a caravan. I think we had maybe six or seven cars trailing me as I was taking everybody back to where it was. So everybody gathered right around the headstone. The choir showed up. They all had white shirts on. There was a burgundy velvet cloth that was on top of the headstone that would be removed sort of partway through the ceremony. Reverend Dr. Tracy Gibson is the pastor of St. Peter's Amy Church in South Minneapolis. And we know that Clementine was a member of this church. So we asked her to officiate.

[F]

Today we come together in an act of love, an act of remembrance and celebration to unveil the headstone of a truly remarkable woman. Now, I'm Reverend Dr. Tracy Gibson, the senior pastor at St. Peter's AME Church, and we know that Clementine was more than just a name in our community. She was a force of nature, a skilled dermatologist. Think about that for a moment back in that time. A compassionate nursing assistant and a vibrant.

[A]

Socialite, she went on to describe Clementine in a way where it was clear that she really sort of felt a connection to her. She was talking about her passion and her professional achievements, her personal achievements. It was great.

[F]

And if I could just use my spiritual imagination for a moment here I Believe that there is a celebration, a party going on in heaven, a joyous reunion, and. And we're here on earth and are taking part in that celebration. In death, Clementine's legacy continues. And so today, we not only honor Clementine, but also her beloved husband, Harry Robinson. It is with excitement that I welcome you to this headstone unveiling. It's a sacred moment of reflection and tribute. Amen.

[B]

I am on the battlefield for my Lord.

[F]

I am on the battlefield for my Lord.

[A]

So as things get going, the choir from St. Peter's is singing and there's a crowd of more than 60 people there. And we're sort of clapping along and some are singing along, those who knew the words to the music. You know, very mixed gathering. I mean, there's people here from all over the community. Some of them are church parishioners, Some of them are people from my neighborhood. Others who were just kind of listeners of the podcast. Jason Benjamin was there, and then a woman named Gloria Withers was there. She is a longtime member of St. Peter's AME.

[B]

You know, so much history is lost.

[F]

And when it's found, we have to.

[B]

Celebrate it and celebrate the people who helped create the world we're in today.

[E]

So I'm here to celebrate the ancestors.

[B]

A woman named Joanna Ho Hallstrom was also there. She lives in South Minneapolis.

[E]

Been following the podcast and this part of the story was one of the saddest pieces that she never had a headstone. And so I think that's why this felt really important.

[B]

For my Lord.

[A]

So, you know, after the song and Pastor Tracy's remarks, I got up in front of the microphone to say a few words. Well, I just want to thank you all for being here today to honor Clementine and Harry Robinson. My name is Eric Roper. I'm one of the people behind Ghost of a Chance. I'm the person who lives in the Robinsons former house. You know, I made a sad discovery at this spot two and a half years ago. It was a very lonely moment for me here in the cemetery. I could not have imagined this scene back then, you know, that so many people would be moved by Clementine's story and want to contribute to this gesture in her honor, in her memory. So 60 years after her passing, we're here today to grant one of Clementine's final wishes. You know, her unmarked grave was surprising because we know that Clementine made a mark on the world despite the challenges.

[B]

Eric went on to talk about Clementine's accomplishments and affiliations.

[A]

When you see the headstone. Take a look at the dates. The Robinsons were born in 1881. Clementine and Harry were in the first generation of their families. Born free from slavery in this country. Clementine was known to her family as Clema Brown back then, growing up in rural Missouri. And I'm honored that the descendants of two of those siblings, Albert and Lemuel, are here with us today. Thank you so much. Lemuel was Clementine's twin brother. By the way, standing in the crowd.

[B]

Were some of Albert's descendants. They are Bridget Marsh, who came in from California, and her brother Brandon Marsh, who came in from Washington D.C. he was with his fiance and his two year old daughter. One of Lemuel's descendants is also here, a woman named Natalie Lampley. She came in from Iowa.

[A]

I will never meet the Robinsons, but a very special house has connected us across generations. And documenting their lives has been just an incredibly rewarding chapter in my life. And I feel that no more so than today, standing with you all, who have shown your encouragement and support for this endeavor. It's very touching to me and I will always remember it. And I know that it would have meant the world to Harry and Clementine as well. So thank you very much for being here today. I really appreciate it.

[F]

And so we're going to take some time. But I wanted to say that a headstone serves as more than a marker of where someone rests. It's a statement. It's a declaration. It's a promise that you mattered and you will not be forgotten. If we think about this, for many African American families, a headstone carries even a deeper meaning. It is not just a memorial, but it's a symbol of dignity, resistance, and remembrance. Historically, black families have faced a painful history in funeral rites, cemetery access, and even the right to mark a grave. So today, on this day, we reclaim that space. We affirm that the lives of Clementine and Harry Robinson are honored, valued and remembered. And as long as we continue to speak their names, visit this resting place, and pass down their stories, they continue to live on. It is a time of reflection, a time of finding hope and sorrow and light and loss. For Clementine Robinson, may this headstone not only be a symbol of remembrance, but as a tribute to the light that she was. Clementine's family members at this time, would you please come forward and unveil the headstone.

[A]

Bridget Marsh and Natalie Lampley are both Clementine's great grandnieces. They stepped in front of the group and they pulled back the cloth that was Covering the headstone. It was amazing. I mean, it was. It just. It is a really spectacular thing. It's got a bronze top that's on a large granite slab. It says Clementine Brown Robinson. So we included her maiden name on there. And if we look at cemetery documents, it does appear that that's how Clementine was going to do it. And then we have an insignia of the Order of the Eastern Star, which is a Masonic institution that Clementine was a member of for three decades. Her father was involved in Masonry. And, you know, we felt like Clementine, she would have wanted to have that on there. We also have on the headstone, beloved wife of Harry Robinson. And then we have Harry's dates on there.

[F]

By and by.

[B]

Oh, by and by.

[A]

My favorite part was when people put flowers in front of the headstone as we were singing by and By. That was, I think, when there was the most opportunity to kind of reflect on what we were doing here, that people wanted to do something special for Clementine. You know, it was just a really touching moment.

[E]

According to to his word, we understand it better, right?

[F]

Can we just say Hallelujah?

[C]

Hallelujah.

[F]

Can we say Amen? Amen. The significant history of the meaning of that song. We will understand it better by and by. I'm responsible for closing remarks. And I'm going to leave you with this. Both Harry and Clementine's lives were sacred. The headstone marks a celebration of strength, elegance and impact against the odds. It's a monument to their legacy. It is a symbol of black excellence in a world that often overlooks people because of the color of their skin. It is a place of pride. We are so proud to be here today, reminding future generations that stood tall. They walked in grace and moved through life with power and poise. The headstone keeps that truth alive. It reminds us of the shoulders that we're standing on and the sacrifices that were made. And today we honor a life well lived, a journey filled with purpose, A legacy that continues to inspire even in death. Clementine continues to make the news. From the Appeal newspaper to the Star and Tribune newspaper to the Minneapolis Spokesman's newspaper. Her impact still resonates. Her impact still echoes. And it speaks to future generations, saying she was here, she mattered, and she will always be remembered. Let the church say Amen.

[B]

After the ceremony, I caught up with Clementine's descendants. They were so excited to learn more about her. Brandon Marsh wants to make sure that unlike him, his two year old daughter grows up knowing his history.

[A]

We asked Eric if we could really get as much of information he could.

[C]

Share with us because we're developing a curriculum for nia and we want her.

[D]

To be able to draw upon, you know, the ancestors.

[B]

Brandon's sister, Bridget Marsh, agreed.

[F]

You know, my brother, just saying, like, we grew up in Michigan and all.

[E]

Our family effectively is in Kansas City.

[F]

There's just big gap of information for us. And so this is beyond, like, the story it tells of, like, Minneapolis.

[E]

It's really just a very personal story.

[F]

And it's filling in a lot of gaps of my own family history.

[B]

Natalie Lampley is their distant cousin, and as she was leaving, she told me she was feeling really good about.

[E]

This was awesome. I'm honored that so many people were interested and intrigued by the story that they wanted to pay their tribute. So I think this was awesome, and it was a great turnout on a beautiful day. Couldn't have asked for a better day.

[B]

It was a beautiful day, and not just because of the weather, the ceremony, the people, the energy that went into collecting for the headstone. It was incredible. And it was an opportunity for people from both sides of the freeway in south Minneapolis to come together. Some people may say a headstone is just a drop in the bucket, but someone told me that it takes a drop to eventually create ripples, and I think we're seeing those ripples already. Clementine's descendants have learned her history. Members of the community are hearing their shared history. And Eric continues to speak at churches and neighborhood meetings and clubs. Just email him. He'll be there. The goal was to share this story so that people have a better, more accurate understanding of our shared history. And that's what's happening. Like Ralph Crowder said in that conversation we had in our studio, this is a good way to close the story, but it doesn't mean that things end here.

[D]

I think these kinds of things are not necessarily meant to be a one off. And hey, we played the blues. And now the next song on the radio station is going to be this. You know, I think some of these things have to be revisited to explain where we are now and potentially where we're going. You know what I mean?

[B]

I do know what he means. That we can't stop here with one reporter looking into one house to find the story of one family. Everyone has a part to play in telling our history and finding ways for it to shape the future. Ghost of a Chance is reported by Eric Roper and written and produced by me, Melissa Townsend. Our editor is Mary Jo Webster. The art for the show comes from Anna Boone and Brock Kaplan. Special thanks to members of the local community who served as our advisors, and to our Star Tribune colleagues including Kendall Harkness, Zoe Jackson, Laura McCollum, James Schiffer, Nancy Yang, Casey Darnell, Laura Ewan, Jenny Pinkley, Suki Dardarian and Maria Reeve. Our website is startrebrune.com ghostofachance there you can see pictures and documents from the podcast. Our email is ghostofachancetartrebune.com get in touch if you have a question or feedback or a tip related to the Robinson story. We'd also love to know if this story motivated you to do something in your community, so let us know. You can help pay for this incredible story and others like it with a subscription to the Minnesota Star Tribune. Go to our website, star tribune.com you know when you're just going about your busy day and a voice asks you something like why do people have crushes? Or do dogs know they're dogs? The BrainZN podcast is here to help. Every episode answers tough questions with funny skits, cool facts and more. It's a science show for kids of all ages. Whether you grew up with jfk, mtv, TLC or tmz, Brains on. Is for you.

[A]

Listening may induce uncontrollable laughter and turn backseat squabbles into harmonious car trips. Find Brains On Wherever you get your podcasts.