The Relationships You Never Get Over with Josie Balka

Summary

Girls Gotta Eat – "The Relationships You Never Get Over" with Josie Balka

Podcast: Girls Gotta Eat (Dear Media)
Episode Date: May 12, 2025
Hosts: Ashley Hesseltine & Raina Greenberg
Guest: Josie Balka
Theme: Navigating the relationships—romantic, friendly, and with oneself—that are hardest to move on from, with candid discussion, poetry, humor, and vulnerability.

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the lingering impact of certain relationships—particularly those that don’t work out, those that are cut short, or those marked by one-sided longing. With poet and broadcaster Josie Balka, the hosts dig deep into why we get hung up on the people we don’t end up with, the emotional maze of friendship breakups, body image, and learning to love oneself. The episode blends serious insight, heartfelt reflection, and comedic confessions, delivering both laughter and catharsis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Certain Relationships Linger

• Josie Balka opens with:

  “There's just something about the people that didn't want you that, like, really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you.” [00:00]

• The group agrees: we tend to ruminate on unrequited love or toxic relationships, more so than mutual, healthy ones.
• Josie: Even years later, the relationships that never truly happened or that ended with ambiguity leave the strongest marks.

2. Body Image and Self-Perception

• Discussion of Josie's viral poem on body image:

  “I've never seen someone at a public pool with such a memorable body that I think about it ever again … I've never remembered anybody else. I don't think people are looking at me.” [29:50]

• Ashley and Raina share their own body image struggles, particularly the way social media and photo memories keep old insecurities front-of-mind.
• Reflection on the freedom felt when letting go of pre-vacation body stress and how confidence is more memorable than appearance.

  “When somebody can be so mid—no, I'm just kidding—but when somebody's just like, I'm in a bikini, I just had lunch, and I'm gonna go have fun, you know? That really stuck with me.” – Ashley [34:25]

3. Self-Love and Romanticizing Being Single

• Josie romanticizes her "single girl" days:

  “I really, really romanticize my life when I was living in my little apartment. I had like, one cup, and I, like, loved that time … I was poor, but it was really fun.” [67:46]

• All agree: the singledom years, while sometimes lonely or fraught, are formative and foundational.

4. Healthy Love is ‘Boring’—And That’s Good

• On her fiancé, Josie reflects:

  “Being in love, like, for real, with the right person who's, like, good for you is really boring in the same way as, like, falling asleep in a car when someone's driving that you trust …” [48:49]

• The discussion normalizes that healthy relationships may lack the adrenaline-filled ‘highs and lows’ of toxic ones, but provide needed safety.

5. Why Friend Breakups Are So Hard

• Josie shares a poem:

  “I was making a close friends list … I scrolled past your name, and I didn't add you to my list of close friends. I had to stop for a moment in disbelief to come to terms with the fact that you and I are not close friends anymore. … How a piece of you can die with a friendship.” [70:07]

• Friends are typically imagined as forever; when those bonds break, the pain can be as sharp—or sharper—than romantic loss.
• Discussion on the evolving nature of friendships, contextual friends, and the grief of growing apart with age.

6. Personal Growth After Heartbreak

• The panel wrestles with how relationships—and their endings—change us.

  “We are different people in every relationship … And it's okay to look back and give yourself grace and say, I didn't feel safe in my body with this person, and I acted out of an anxiety …” – Raina [56:44]

• Josie suggests we become the people our partners make us believe we are, and escaping unhealthy dynamics can take a long time and much self-forgiveness.

7. The ‘Other Woman’ Complex & Social Media Pain

• The group unpacks the pain of watching an ex treat a new partner “better”:

  “I do think that we all live this deep seated fear that, like, somebody's gonna treat the next person better. … I cannot believe I have to watch this unfold on Instagram …” – Ashley [61:17]

• Josie recognizes: sometimes, the change is real—people grow up, circumstances shift—and releasing the question of “Why her, not me?” is vital for healing.

8. Women’s Friendship: Making and Keeping Friends at Every Age

• Stories of adult friendships formed via the internet, work, or random encounters (meeting over blinds repair!) [75:48], and how these new bonds can be as important as longstanding ones.
• Acknowledgement that men’s friendships, in contrast, often stagnate or remain ‘surface-level’ beyond early life.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On overthinking rejections:

  “There's just something about the people that didn't want you that, like, really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you.” – Josie [00:00]

• On body image at the pool:

  “I've never remembered anybody else. I don't think people are looking at me.” – Josie [29:50]

• On self-love:

  “If you're not the love of your own life, what's the point?” – Josie [66:55]

• On healthy love:

  “Being in love, like, for real, with the right person … is really boring in the same way as, like, falling asleep in a car when someone's driving that you trust.” – Josie [48:49]

• On friendship loss:

  “How a piece of you can die with a friendship.” – Josie [70:07]

• On growth and changing attachment styles:

  “We are different people in every relationship … And it's okay to look back and give yourself grace …” – Raina [56:44]

• On the pain of watching an ex move on:

  “You can expect it, but you can't be sure. And you're not evil to hope the pattern … so you can have more proof that it was them and not you.” – Josie [60:51]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Summary | |---------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Josie’s opening thought on relationships that linger | | 29:50 | Body image, swimming pool poem, and public perception | | 48:49 | The ‘boring’ safety of healthy love | | 54:45 | Why rejections and ambiguous endings haunt us | | 56:44 | Giving yourself grace: Different selves in different relationships | | 60:51 | The pain of seeing an ex treat a new partner better | | 66:55 | The ‘love of your life’ poem and the power of singlehood | | 70:07 | Friendship breakups – poetry and reflection | | 75:48 | Making adult friendships in unexpected ways | | 87:26 | Josie’s imposter syndrome on writing/publishing her poetry book | | 89:34 | Book structure (“I hope you remember”) and reading poetry for self-reflection |

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Flow and Tone

The episode is richly conversational and intimate, balancing raw honesty with irreverence and wit. Personal stories of embarrassing texts, horny massages, and DMs from a “micropenis guy” (21:00) provide comic relief and authenticity, while Josie’s poetry invites listeners to pause and reflect on deeper wounds and what it takes to heal. The hosts are candid, warm, and supportive, offering listeners not just entertainment but genuine commiseration and advice.

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Final Thoughts

• Josie’s book, I Hope You Remember, is recommended reading—albeit with tissues.
• The trio reminds listeners that deep, sometimes uncomfortable self-reflection is part of moving forward, and that joy, confidence, and friendship are accessible at every stage.
• “You’re the love of your life. Don’t ever forget.” – Josie [66:55]

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Connect with the Cast

• Josie Balka: @josiebalka on all platforms. Book out now.
• Hosts: @ashhess, @rayna.greenberg, @girlsgottaeatpodcast (Instagram & TikTok)
• Podcast: Girls Gotta Eat – New episodes every Monday and “The Snack” Thursday.

Transcript

[Josie Balka]

There's just something about the people that didn't want you that, like, really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you.

[Raina Greenberg]

This podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Josie Balka]

Hi, guys. Hi, guys.

[Ashley Hess]

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

[Raina Greenberg]

Welcome back.

[Ashley Hess]

I cannot wait to get out of here and get my hair done.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's today.

[Ashley Hess]

It's tomorrow. Tomorrow. Somebody commented on one of my videos. It was so eloquently said, she has money now and can't even pay to look less ratchet.

[Josie Balka]

What?

[Ashley Hess]

Now? I've been having money. Girl, get out of here.

[Raina Greenberg]

She's like, you have a semblance of Olivia.

[Ashley Hess]

It was giving that. She said to me, like, she finally has money and can't make her hair look good. And I was like, you just need.

[Raina Greenberg]

To get it redone. This is a whole process. We're busy stuff to do. You are going. Are you overdue?

[Ashley Hess]

No, I'm underdue, actually. My hair just grew really fast.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, good for you. Can I tell you what I think I'm going to do tomorrow? What? I think I'm going to do natural nails.

[Ashley Hess]

But you have natural nails.

[Raina Greenberg]

No polish.

[Ashley Hess]

Natural polish.

[Raina Greenberg]

No. Like, I just kind of feel like I want to see their, like, raw look.

[Ashley Hess]

That's crazy.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, I might get clear gel on them to keep them strong. Oh, my God.

[Ashley Hess]

It's.

[Raina Greenberg]

But, like, they've gotten so long, they're obscene, that I just want to, like, see their natural look.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, your nails are. They look really fake. It's crazy.

[Raina Greenberg]

I know. I can't even believe it.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, that couldn't be made.

[Raina Greenberg]

Do we have a neutrophil?

[Ashley Hess]

I'm never gonna be that brave. Yeah, we have neutral today, actually.

[Raina Greenberg]

All right, well, let's get.

[Ashley Hess]

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[Raina Greenberg]

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[Ashley Hess]

This is, like, very funny behavior. I was wondering what you think about it to me, it's jail. So one of our friends texted me, and she does this often, and she just said, are you free tomorrow night?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

No information. I think it is the craziest thing to ask people what their plans are and not tell me what the plan is so I can make up a lie about. I don't wanna do the thing you're about to suggest.

[Josie Balka]

You.

[Ashley Hess]

You can't ask about my schedule before you tell me the plan.

[Raina Greenberg]

You can ask whatever you want. I'm gonna write, why, what's up?

[Ashley Hess]

Right. I'm not gonna.

[Raina Greenberg]

I would never answer that question.

[Ashley Hess]

Can you imagine?

[Raina Greenberg]

Are you free tomorrow night?

[Ashley Hess]

Just being like, the ambush. I start, like, scrambling, where I'm like, I might be, but, like, recording my run late. And so I can't really commit to anything.

[Raina Greenberg]

You were overthinking this.

[Ashley Hess]

Why?

[Raina Greenberg]

What's up? Tell me what first, you have to jail. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I only have one friend I will tolerate this from, and she's the one that doesn't. It's Jackie.

[Raina Greenberg]

And she always, well, Jackie's coming over regardless.

[Ashley Hess]

That's what I'm saying.

[Raina Greenberg]

Jackie's gonna make sure you see her regardless. She is gonna find your location. She's there.

[Josie Balka]

Yes.

[Ashley Hess]

She's always like, do you wanna go for a walk? And I'm like, no. And she's like, you're sitting at your house. I know you're sitting at your house. Also, I'm outside and I have a key. She just let herself in. Also, she always has cool stuff to do. So she is my one friend.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally.

[Ashley Hess]

Listen, all our friends are great, but she's my one friend that I know. She's about to serve up some, like, exclusive event that I went out to dinner with her the other night. She has a food account called no Leftovers. She's a food blogger.

[Raina Greenberg]

So good. Her food content is second to none.

[Ashley Hess]

And we went out to dinner the other night. They comped a $600 check.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, you gotta hang out with Jackie. I mean, we're gonna be in those DMs now. Hey, girl, you up? But here's the thing, also, depending on your level of friendship, because you could ask me that and I would just be honest with you, I might hit you with a why, what's up? But if I said, I'm free, what's up? And you said something I didn't want to do, I'd be like, I don't wanna do that. So your best friends, you can do whatever you want because you're gonna tell them. I don't want to do that. Can we do something else?

[Ashley Hess]

She is also a person. I would say 100%. I don't want to do that, but I just thought it was crazy. And I flagged this to her yesterday. I was like, you know, you're my, like, only friend that has, like, the balls to say, like, are you just. Are you just free for what?

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm trying to think if I ever do. Does feel like a trap.

[Ashley Hess]

It is a trap. It should be, are you free tomorrow night? I have these tickets. I have this dinner reservation. Like, why can't I know what the plan is? Or, what are we doing?

[Raina Greenberg]

You can hit somebody back with a maybe, and that implies tell me what we're doing.

[Ashley Hess]

It depends.

[Raina Greenberg]

Tell me what you got going on.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes, I showed. I thought it was very funny. It is funny behavior, and I was.

[Raina Greenberg]

Wondering what you thought about it. But Jackie, she's. It's not even a trap for her. It's just vibes, like, I don't know. And she knows, you know, I'm going to be doing something dope. Jackie's like, my life is dope, and I do dope shit.

[Ashley Hess]

And she's also like, I may not show up. Jackie's just like, I will tell you a plan, but I also may not show up for this. Right?

[Raina Greenberg]

She'll get you all excited, and she'll be like, I can't make it.

[Ashley Hess]

One time when I was friends, when I first became friends with her in New York, I was at some, like, food event. She came with her boyfriend. It was me and this girl, her and her boyfriend. And she left in the middle of it. This is the first time I'd ever met her boyfriend. She leaves me at this dinner with him and texts me. I had to get a manicure. In the middle of it, she bailed.

[Raina Greenberg]

On her own plans and left her.

[Ashley Hess]

Boyfriend with me and my friend.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's so funny.

[Ashley Hess]

And she's just like, one of those people, like, jackie's going to. Jackie, if you just left me with your fiance at dinner, I would. Well, I mean, you're leaving me with somebody I know and I like.

[Raina Greenberg]

But, like, no, you think I'm in the bathroom. I'm like, I'm at pinkies. I'm knee deep in this UV lamp. Sorry, I can't talk. I got foil on my nails.

[Ashley Hess]

You're like, what?

[Raina Greenberg]

Are you not in the bathroom?

[Ashley Hess]

I've made polished change.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. So got to love her. But, yeah. Let us know what you guys think in the comments. If you think it's jail or some people might not mind this.

[Ashley Hess]

There's like one person in my life that could do that. And like, maybe my parents even a parent. I'm like, free for what? Okay, anyways.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, I just got back from Florida.

[Ashley Hess]

You went on a whole tour with.

[Raina Greenberg]

Crazy that you weren't there.

[Ashley Hess]

I did last minute decide I was gonna come. And then it was f. One weekend in Miami and the tickets were like.

[Raina Greenberg]

Exorbitantly to get there. Yes, Miami itself. I wanted to keep this a secret, but I gotta tell you, amazing time to go. We've always gone in February, mostly like winter. Cause we were escaping New York and then it just became our tradition. So much better later, like late April, May. So many people have gone. It's all locals. It's not that touristy snowbird type crowd. And even my friends who split time between there and somewhere else are about to leave and go back up to Delaware or wherever. So it just felt like so chill. The beach wasn't that crowded. I was like, this is it. And not too hot. In a few weeks, it'll just be unbearably hot. But I had the best time. I did a show in Miami and a show, two shows in Tampa on my tour. And if you guys are curious, I'm still touring all summer long. And I'll be in Salt Lake City next. So I'll be in Salt Lake City next weekend. [e-mail] just have to plug it. But something happened on tour that has not happened to me yet.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous of everything that happened. I wasn't even there.

[Raina Greenberg]

This lady stormed out, middle finger in the air. To my knowledge, no one has ever left my show. Some people probably have, like, if they were offended. I'm not that offensive.

[Ashley Hess]

The guy that I used to date who brought his sister to the show, and I was talking about him tit fucking me. And she got up and walked. She didn't make a thing of it.

[Raina Greenberg]

To make a thing of it. You know, you're sitting in the back, you leave quietly. Like, I don't even know if I would have known that I had walked her if she didn't put her middle finger in the air. It took me a minute to process. Also the lights. Like, I can't really see so much of what's going on in the crowd. She's walking out, middle of the room at the Tampa Funny bone. She's walking out. And I am like, is she. I go, are you? Is she leaving? And then people are like, yeah, she's leaving. I'm like, ma', am, I like really riffed on it. It was very funny.

[Ashley Hess]

Did she turn around and give you the finger?

[Raina Greenberg]

No. A middle finger in the air to you. Just blonde Karen, probably in her 50s, middle finger in the air, watched, stormed out. I will say it was a really mild abortion joke. And I don't hold back in my comedy. There's some political themes throughout. People don't seem to mind if they are on the other side of the aisle. It's not very light. It is light. This is the lightest thing I done. And Brittany Brave, who I adore, you guys should see her if you can. She's so, so funny. She was with me in both cities. Just fucking crushed it. So she has some stuff up top that was more offensive, quote, unquote, if that's your hard line, is, you know, women's rights and abortion. And so I was shocked. Like, this joke actually that I tell. I'm not going to give it away. People wherever you stand seem to like it. Like, I don't know if she had.

[Ashley Hess]

Been fed up at that point joke.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then my opening joke. And then she was like, one more fucking abortion joke and I'm out here. And I've got to say, there's not that much like my stand up about that. But that's why I was so surprised that she left at that. And that made it even funnier. And I roasted her the whole walk to the door. She had to walk through the showroom. Roasted her the whole way. And then I was like, bye. And then all the audience was like, bye, bitch. Na na na na.

[Ashley Hess]

Hey, you guys heard Channing?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, you're so lucky. And then I was able to keep riffing on it. It inspired me. I was like, horny about it. I was like, I'm going to masturbate to that later.

[Ashley Hess]

Nothing would turn me on more.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley Hess]

Just the finger up in the air. And also, by the, like, it's not. Well, it's not a political joke at all. And it's just about your own body. I mean, you're not roasting other people. I mean, it's literally just about your own body.

[Raina Greenberg]

And it's so crazy because there is a punchline that I guess you would get offended by sorta if you're easily offended, that I hadn't even gotten to yet. I was midway through the. I was only done the first half. She was out. And I cannot believe I don't have this on film. Like, I had a videographer for my Miami set, but not for Tampa. I can't believe I don't have this.

[Ashley Hess]

No, I can't believe it either. I can't believe she was that offended. I want to know, like, this is not a rhetorical question. How does that woman get through her life day to day? I mean, she went to a comedy club. I don't think that, like, it's fair. All things in comedy are fair game. I think we've come a long way from, like, let's say really, really horrible, disgusting, offensive things. Like, but you're walking to a comedy club. I mean, chances are you're going to hear some offensive stuff like, how does this woman get through her life day to day?

[Raina Greenberg]

I know. And a lot of my shows, probably most of my shows are going to be sold out in advance. Most of them have been up until Florida. That's fucking Florida for you. Where people are there to see me. And it's not as much of walking and off the street the night of a comedy show, because that's what happens, especially on a weekend. You want to go see a comedy show? I used to do this. I mean, back when I lived in Atlanta. It's like, let's go see a comedy show tonight. You go to the improv, whoever was there. But I always would look them up at least a little bit beforehand just because I know what I like. And I guess she. She didn't. Because if you. Even if you looked it up, it says, sex before marriage tour lady.

[Ashley Hess]

Right.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I don't know how she got there. I don't know how she stayed that long. And then that's what made her leave.

[Ashley Hess]

But incredible.

[Raina Greenberg]

So lucky. So, yeah, it was just. It was really fun. I feel like it bonded the audience together.

[Ashley Hess]

Tampa, Something crazy always happens there. Tampa is also. So we used to put people's dating apps on the screen and swipe through them, and this girl saw her boyfriend. She had just moved to Tampa from up on the screen.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I was wrong.

[Ashley Hess]

So crazy. I will say some people's dating profiles, which we know are still active even though they're not. They'll delete it from their phones profiles. But this was.

[Raina Greenberg]

It was like, fresh pics. Yeah, fresh pics. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Something crazy always happens.

[Raina Greenberg]

So now we had to leave that rental car there. We couldn't rent from Avis for a fucking year. We.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm still under investigation. They think I stole that car. I have to pick up a car at the Pittsburgh airport in two days. And I know it's going to be a problem. It's always a problem.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think we talked about this on the podcast, but we had a rental car, and we valet it, and we didn't do shit to it. And then they told us it had a flat. We're like, well, it didn't have a flat when we brought it to you. And they couldn't get it to us, and so we just had to leave it.

[Ashley Hess]

We had a show. What?

[Raina Greenberg]

We were to Orlando. We had to get an Uber. And we were like, calling Avis, go get your car.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, Avis was like, we have a location across the street. And they were like, just leave the car. Essentially, which people do all the time. If you have a rental car and it breaks down, you have to get somewhere. You're not gonna sit with the. We sat with the car, me and Tessa, for hours.

[Raina Greenberg]

Hours, yes.

[Ashley Hess]

And they just couldn't come get us. They said, just leave it.

[Raina Greenberg]

But then one person did.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't know the person we were on the phone with. And then we had. Between me, Tessa, and our business managers had to make so many phone calls to Ava saying that I didn't steal this car. And I'm still dealing with this. When I pick up the car in the Pittsburgh airport in two days, I will deal with.

[Raina Greenberg]

This is crazy. You're on the do not rent list.

[Ashley Hess]

I am on the do not rent list.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, well, tell me about your weekend.

[Ashley Hess]

I just. I feel like sometimes you leave. And we had some friends that just moved, and people were out of town this weekend. I was really, like, left to my own devices this weekend. And so I went to Ojai and Santa Barbara, and then I came back, and I really. It was cold, and it rained all weekend. I, like, didn't know what to do. I almost, like, got my car worked on. I was, like, texting your fiance, like, hey, like, what do I do to get my car worked on? I drove up to Santa Barbara. So how do I even start to tell you guys about this?

[Raina Greenberg]

What?

[Ashley Hess]

I booked a massage at this place, and if you guys remember, I took a trip to Santa Barbara last summer, and I got a massage at this place, and this guy who was, like, pretty good looking gave me this massage, and we just, like, hung out the whole time. I've never talked to anybody through a massage, but, like, him and I just, like, chatted the whole time, and it was kind of weird and funny. Cause someone's, like, rubbing you down in the. He was professional, but it is the. The nature of being naked and being touched is sexual. And he talked to me the whole Time. So it was like a funny experience.

[Raina Greenberg]

And he's hot.

[Ashley Hess]

He's hot.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

So I booked a last minute massage at the same place again. And they were like, we don't have a lot of masseuses left for the day. This is a great place, by the way. But they were like, we only have men. And I was like, perfect. That sounds great.

[Raina Greenberg]

I was gonna ask actually, for one in particular.

[Ashley Hess]

She said, some guy's name. And I couldn't remember what the guy's name was, but I was like, it's probably him. And then I was like, I had this anxiety all day about, like, do I acknowledge that, hey, it's me? We had this nice time together. Like, this is our second date. Like, I just had a lot of anxiety about, like, what was gonna happen. And so I'm sitting in the waiting room when I get there, and these two women come to pick up these other two women. And this guy walks in, and it was not him. My jaw hit the floor. He was like, raina, I look up, it is a six foot six, the most beautiful man I have ever seen in my life. I almost canceled the massage right there. I was like, I can't get three. He had the biggest hands I have ever seen, the biggest smile. And he was like, I am so happy to have you here. I'm really passionate about this work. So what are we doing today? What feels good? What doesn't feel good? What parts of your body? He was so amped on this job. And I was like, you touch your body, how am I gonna get through this? Thank God. I started on my stomach because I laughed and was talking to myself. Like, do not laugh. Do not audibly moan. This guy, at one point, he was standing at the top of the table where my head was. I was on my stomach, and he took his hands and he ran them down my. Down my sides, the entire way. Like, past my butt, down my thighs, all the way down to my knees while he was standing up at my head. That's how tall he was. He ran his hands down the entire length of my body, and I was like, don't moan.

[Raina Greenberg]

Don't grab his dick.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't know how people get through it. He walked into the room. It took my breath away.

[Raina Greenberg]

Especially if you haven't been touched in a while.

[Ashley Hess]

It's like a week. Ashley.

[Raina Greenberg]

No, no, not you, Reina. I meant I literally met someone who hasn't. Not you.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't know how other people.

[Raina Greenberg]

I don't know. Like, a woman in, like, a sexless marriage. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how yearn to be touched.

[Ashley Hess]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't know how he was.

[Raina Greenberg]

You know, you. No one wants to punk you. It's been so long. You probably had sex more recently than me this morning.

[Ashley Hess]

No.

[Raina Greenberg]

Then yes.

[Ashley Hess]

No. I was so horny. It was insane. I really had to be like. When I was on my back, I was like smiling and I like, I feel like this is probably what's for, like, for men when they get massages and they're like, don't get hard, don't get hard, don't get hard. I was like, don't lick your lips. Don't audibly moan.

[Raina Greenberg]

I didn't know how to like, don't squirt.

[Ashley Hess]

Literally. I was like, there's gonna be a puddle on this table.

[Raina Greenberg]

Seriously.

[Ashley Hess]

I have to like take the sheet with me.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, do you mind if. Could you clean up the wet spot? Sorry about the wet.

[Ashley Hess]

The whole table was actually soaked cuz I was really cold in the room. And he kept like changing out these really hot wet towels on my back.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I was like, all songs cover up that wet spot.

[Josie Balka]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

I was like, this is like plaus deniability because the table.

[Raina Greenberg]

Was he talking to you?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, a little bit. Okay. But like not a ton. And I couldn't. I was like, please be gay. Please be gay. Dear God, please. You can't tell in California. They all seem gay, right? Exactly. So he opened up his mouth and started talking and I. Who's to say that was the hottest man I've ever.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh my God.

[Ashley Hess]

Masturbated every day. Totally. I don't.

[Raina Greenberg]

This content will last you.

[Ashley Hess]

I.

[Raina Greenberg]

For this bank. Bank.

[Ashley Hess]

I've really had a lot of sex recently, but like, I don't. They're all. You got to go back replaced.

[Raina Greenberg]

You're there every day. She said, now, right after this, I.

[Ashley Hess]

Want to go back.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, it happened to me one time. I think I talked about this. I was on a press trip. I think I was at the San Juan Marriott and the masseuse came out and it like took my breath away. And I was like, I don't. How are. This is crazy. Like, I was so horny for him.

[Ashley Hess]

I think that you probably think not.

[Raina Greenberg]

You, but the plural.

[Ashley Hess]

You like, it's my dream to have somebody that hot. No, I don't want it.

[Raina Greenberg]

I couldn't relax. And then I remember talking with the PR girls after and I was like, you guys, thank you so much. They're like, we did that for you, girl, you know? And then they were like, we have gotten to know him because we come here a lot as the publicists of the hotel. And they were like, one night we went out with him, like, drinks, like, because they've gotten to know everybody. And they were like, it just ruined the whole allure.

[Ashley Hess]

Material.

[Raina Greenberg]

Seriously. I was like, okay, that makes sense.

[Ashley Hess]

They're like, we like to keep him.

[Raina Greenberg]

Keep him at the spa.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, you do want to just, like, suspend. Spend actually knowing anything about this person. I just. It was really uncomfortable. I was. But listen to great spa. I cannot wait to go back. Holy shit.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, my God.

[Ashley Hess]

And I really thought, like, if he just touched me, what would I do?

[Raina Greenberg]

Lean in.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, 100%.

[Raina Greenberg]

Which. That shouldn't happen. People get so mad. She's never stopped doing this Seven years. She's like, I'm gonna talk about massage porn. No one's gonna stop me.

[Ashley Hess]

He was totally professional. I was unprofessional. I don't he him. And the spa did a great job. Do you think that that, like, everybody that checks into that spa, like, the girls at the front desk are like, she is about to have the ride of her life.

[Raina Greenberg]

Seriously. Like, I wonder if they vet the women. They're like, yeah, she's gonna want it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, I really did want it. I can't stop thinking about him. And then the other thing I did this weekend is so embarrassing. I spent so much time on it, I decided I was gonna become a fashion influencer. So I built storefronts on Amazon. Revolve Shop My. I did a link tree to my Instagram. I built all these things out. But, like, I finally was like, I have a shopping addiction. And let's monetize that. Let's put it out into the world. Let's show people what I'm wearing and allow them to shop for those things. And so I really. The amount of stuff I organized into, like, lists and links and stuff is crazy. It's unhinged.

[Raina Greenberg]

Is this the plug?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. You guys should shop. My.

[Raina Greenberg]

I plugged my tour.

[Ashley Hess]

You guys go to my Instagram, pull up my shop my links. I actually made, like, a really nice link tree, which I'm gonna, like, suggest.

[Raina Greenberg]

I gotta look at. Mine is so pathetic. There's two pairs of pants on my shop. My.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm gonna teach you how to make a lake tree at a shop. My. You're gonna monetize it. It's gonna be great. But I got good stuff in there. People always ask me, like, where to shop for the Stuff from my house. Shop my. My Amazon storefront. Get in there.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love this vlog.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, I'm not on tour, so, like, this is my. This is my career now. I'm an Amazon influencer.

[Josie Balka]

Make money.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm trying to make money. You do.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm saying, like, people make good money.

[Ashley Hess]

People do make good money. I mean, I think that, like, you get served these, like, Amazon dupe accounts that are like, this is just like the so and so brand. Like, well, that's what their whole career is good for them.

[Raina Greenberg]

But shop my. And I mean, they, they're really giving it back to the creators, the influencers. Like, these commissions are not used to be as high as they are now.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, they're doing it right now. Like, to know was the first company that did this and then shop my.

[Raina Greenberg]

Way back in the day, like, just those, like, affiliate links. It would be such a lower percentage.

[Ashley Hess]

The percentages are high. They start it, they're anywhere from like 5%. And that's usually typically companies like furniture, home goods, things like that, all the way up to like 20% from, like jewelry companies. Because, like, those are higher ticket items. Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, it's. It's nice though that these, like, creators that are just like, posting their shit.

[Raina Greenberg]

All day long, you're making these companies money. You should get paid on it. And I like that they know that now. So get on Raina's link tree and fund. Raina Palooza, everybody.

[Ashley Hess]

Do you need to. I finished raising a palooza. I planned it. I sent out the invites. It is locked and loaded.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, I have one more thing I want to share with you. This is a dm. Multiple dms, they keep coming. And I think I mentioned this before, that this guy had messaged me, I have a micro penis. Have you ever seen one?

[Ashley Hess]

He has sent me that message too.

[Raina Greenberg]

Are you serious? Have you seen it?

[Ashley Hess]

No, I didn't follow up secretly and asked to see his feet.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, well, here's why I ask. So he is going in my DMs. I don't open these. I just let him fly. Let him cook. So he said, this is started on March 16th. That was I have a micro penis. Have you ever seen one? Then the next one probably a few days later. Can I show you my micro penis? Then a few days later, liberal twat. So I posted something political. He didn't know.

[Ashley Hess]

He's responded to my Instagram question slides where he's written, I have a micro penis.

[Raina Greenberg]

He's dying to show people this micro penis. Liberal Twat. My penis goes inverted when soft. I love you, mommy. Liberal babe. Oh.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh.

[Raina Greenberg]

It would be an honor to show you my micro penis. Ask Raina. That's why I'd asked if you'd seen it.

[Ashley Hess]

He's like, ask. Ask Raina about it. She knows.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then, should I eat my own Cummings? And then lastly, typical liberal woman hating on men.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, is that because of Drew's interview?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes. He is unhinged. He doesn't know if he loves me or hates me.

[Ashley Hess]

He changes his mind a lot, and then he just seems to forget.

[Raina Greenberg]

Jenny Jones was like, wait, I kind of want to see. She was like, can you show it? Yeah. Can you imagine? That's how we get kicked off Instagram. I just think he's so funny. Like, one minute he's like, my micropenis this, my micropenis that, and then he's just like, you. You can't. All right, well, bless his heart.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, have I seen it? No. And I. Now I'm gonna have to block him.

[Raina Greenberg]

I know I should just block him. He's in my, like, hidden. But I'll look in there sometimes to watch him go. And then he'll delete stuff.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, and then he just gets back in.

[Raina Greenberg]

He's really going through something. It's just so funny because we talk about Republican guys having these small dicks, and it's like, there's a proof. Yeah, there's the actual proof.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, your inverted micro penis.

[Raina Greenberg]

A man who hates women with the smallest penis of all time. Okay, well, we're just gonna talk about our partners, and then we will it with Josie.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay, so, honestly, I'm getting a little older. I don't bounce back after a night of drinking the way I used to, and that's not really an option for me. I like waking up really early. I like feeling good. I have a business to run, and I wanna feel good when I get up. So I've turned to Zbiotics, and I am so, so happy about it. So Zbiotics. Pre alcohol probiotic. Helps your body break down. Listen, this is not my fault. It helps your body break down. Astaldeh. Listen, you guys made me read this verbatim, and that's on you. It's alcohol's toxic byproduct, so you feel better the next day. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut, which is that word that I can't say. It's this byproduct and not dehydration that are to blame for your rough next day. And there is a proactive way to help with the next day instead of a reactive approach. So they come in these cute little bottles. You drink one before a night out and you can confidently just kind of plan on having a great next day. And I just, I hate when I wake up foggy. I'm just like not ready to go. People are asking us questions and I want to like support the people around us.

[Raina Greenberg]

All the girls I was with in Florida all do it. Like outside of me, the podcast they were like, you guys do Zebiotics? I was like love that.

[Ashley Hess]

And I love the idea of this in gift bags for like weddings, birthday parties with pre alcohol. I can stay on track and not let all this summer travel and celebrations just fall to the wayside. Go to zbiotics.com GGE to learn more and get 15% off your first order. When you use the code GGE at checkout, Zebiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee. If you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com GGE and use code GGE at checkout for 15% off. Thank you Zebiotics for sponsoring this episode and our good times.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, and I am telling you guys about pretty litter. This is for any cat owners out there. Of course you want to keep your cat healthy and extend their life. I of course have a dog and it's just so important. I mean, I was with my friend this weekend and she has a dog and she's just so obsessed with him and we just talking like anything we can do to like keep them healthy. But if you have cats, this is really one of the number one things you can do to monitor their health. Because this kitty litter changes colors based on what's going on with them internally. So it can alert you if something is going on with your cat's health. It is so high tech, so incredible that they do that. So it really can help you have peace of mind, monitor your cat's health, detecting abnormalities in their urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels and showing the visible presence of blood. Yikes. But it's great. This is the kitty litter that my parents use and so many cat owners use. And I mean, I love it because it's really low dust. It doesn't like fly out of the box. It really doesn't have any odor. It controls odors and it lasts for up to one month. It ships free to your door. It's non toxic, of course, pet safe and it just is the best out there. I truly think that once you start using this, you don't go back. My parents are proof of that and they have a bunch of cats and I love all their cats and we love all our childless cat ladies out there and of course everyone else that has cats and really wants to extend their life. And so this is really the best kitty litter you can buy. And right now you can save 20% on your first order and get a free cat [e-mail] GGE that's prettylitter.com GGE to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Prettylitter.com GGE and Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See site for details.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. And temperatures are rising. It's vacation season. We're taking out those summer clothes and some of you might feel like they're a little beat up. Now it's time to replace that summer wardrobe so you can upgrade your uniform with quints. They have all kinds of great stuff for summer. So they have 100% European linen sets. So they have pants, shorts, tops to go with it in lots of different colors. They have dresses from $30, so lots of sundresses. They have great swimwear, platform sandals. I just bought two pairs of shoes from them for the summer. I have these white canvas sneakers and I also bought these suede mules that I've been wearing like constantly. And I love the light color for summer. Everything just looks so luxe and high end and it's priced 50 to 80% less than what you'd find in similar brands. So I love the site and I love their prices and there's so much to choose from. And they only work with factories that use safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I mean, if you guys want to get a beach bag, sandals, any type of like cute summery outfits, they really, really do it right for the right price. So can't recommend it enough.

[Raina Greenberg]

I just got the Italian leather hand woven crossbody bag. I love a crossbody bag just for every day traveling with it. I always have it like with my carry on and I just love this. It's in taupe, so it's like a nice light color for summer. I was using a black one and now I just got this. I'm obsessed with it. It's the best crossbody bag.

[Ashley Hess]

They have great bags.

[Raina Greenberg]

It looks like so high end. I mean it is, it's really nice, but. 99.90 under 100 bucks.

[Ashley Hess]

All right, well, treat your closet to a little summer glow. Up with quince. Go to quince.com GGE for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com GGE to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com GGE okay, let's get into it. All right, guys. We are very excited to welcome our guest today. She is a broadcaster, a voiceover artist and a poet. She has worked for some of the largest media companies in North America as an on air personality and radio host. She has amassed nearly 2 million followers recording viral poetry about love, friendship, loss, body image, all from the privacy of her soundproof closet. Her debut book, I hope you remember is out tomorrow. Please welcome to the show Josie Balka.

[Josie Balka]

Thank you guys for having me.

[Raina Greenberg]

Wait, this book, I just need to give you guys a warning. Like, read this.

[Ashley Hess]

I was having trouble getting through it.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I'm like in a happy, healthy. I'm cry right now. It is so beautiful. Like, you just need to be in a safe space when you guys read this. If you're really dealing with something, just be careful. Read with caution.

[Josie Balka]

Thank you for saying that.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's so wonderful. Like, I was just reading just casually this morning, perusing one started crying. I'm like, what am I? Okay, it's really beautiful and like we'll talk about it more. But anyway, I wanted to warn you guys going in, thank you. Purchase it and then read with caution.

[Ashley Hess]

You're writing. I told like rocks me to my core. I said to Ashley I was going through this sort of like ending a situationship kind of thing and like the amount of times I was in the fetal position listening to your content. But I first came across your content because you wrote this poem about body image and the way you feel about your body. And I referenced it on our Dr. Barrett episode last summer. And I'd never heard somebody say speak about their body in this way. And you said this line and you'll have to tell me the exact quote, but you said, I never saw somebody's body on a beach and ever thought about it again. Yeah, what's the line?

[Josie Balka]

I've never seen someone at a public pool with such a memorable body that I think about it ever again, whether it's like super good or super bad. And not that there's like a super bad body. But I just was thinking about swimming and how much trauma I've attached to going swimming in my life. And I was like, wait, I've never remembered anybody else. I don't think people are looking at me.

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally. I mean, you think about some of the most traumatizing moments as a kid was like bathing suit related or a kid last week? I guess, like growing up. It's not like a 10 year old, but like teenage.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yes, of course. Even into adulthood. Like early memories.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Of like, I'm saying it's ingrained in us from when we're young.

[Josie Balka]

Well, I remember when it's like Sears. Did you guys have Sears here? Yeah, with my mom and like trying on bathing suits when I was like 8 and being like, shudder.

[Raina Greenberg]

What?

[Josie Balka]

Like, why do I look like this?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Because I was always like a heavier set kid anyway, so like. But I've struggled with it my entire life, so it's been just a thing constantly. And now I like that I've been able to write about it. And other people are like, oh, me too. And then it makes you feel a lot less alone about it.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, let's talk a little bit about your background and just kind of share the brief story of your. Your life and career. I think it's so funny to say, like, viral poetry.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, I know it's weird, but it's.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like you're really bringing poetry back.

[Josie Balka]

Well, yeah, it's definitely like a very, very strange thing. And I remember the first time I went to go post one online. I don't even remember why. I think there's a couple different reasons. I saw the Barbie movie and I was very inspired by it. I like pulled my car over on the way home and wrote this big rhyming poem. And I was like, what am I doing? And then I got home and I was like, I think I'm gonna post this online. And I did. I don't think that many people liked it. And then when I was turning 32 summers ago, I lost my mind over it. And then I wrote like a little thing about turning 30 and people seemed to really like it. And obviously it's like, sometimes you need other people's validation to be like, okay, I'll keep going. Because if nobody liked it, I'd be like, okay, well, never mind. But that kind of launched me into this whole poetry thing and I just never stopped. And I've had people be like, is that lame? And I'm like, I think so. But I don't know, I don't know.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, maybe not is what, like doing poetry?

[Josie Balka]

I don't know, it's just kind of.

[Ashley Hess]

Random the way that you are able to just encapsulate the human experience in such a beautiful, brief way. And I've like, gone back to your writing, like in friendship breakups, in like, the ending of a sort of toxic relationship, and even like the body image stuff. Like, you're just able to very quickly sum up how a lot of people feel. And I think about that line, like, no one's looking at you at a public pool and ever thinking about you again. And it is ruined my entire day.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I said to Ashley years ago, we were on our way to Cancun, and I said, I finally feel free of this feeling of like, starving myself for a week leading up to a beach vacation. And what a freeing feeling. But like, I was ruled by that my entire life.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. I think I certainly notice people's bodies, but I think I notice the way they carry themselves. I know that I've had moments on the beach or at the pool seeing. And I'm really happy with my body now, but I haven't always been. And seeing a woman that maybe, like, had a certain body type like me, or had cellulite or whatever she had going on, and like, her wearing a two piece, carrying herself, looking so confident, like, that is helpful to me. Oh, like, yeah, that's what I think when I look at women's bodies.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, I think you, like, notice it for sure. But I would never carry it with me to like a week later and be like, guys, I was at the beach last week and I saw, like, you know, like, I just wouldn't bring it forward.

[Ashley Hess]

Right.

[Josie Balka]

And I think in the moment, like, if you have a different body that, like, looks a little different. I've had this happen before where, like, I have a lot of stretch marks, I have scars from plastic surgeries and stuff where people will be like, oh, wow, like, you're so brave to. To wear that. And I'm like, what? Like, really? And then so they are noticing, but I don't think they're going to like, their friends at dinner. Yeah, exactly.

[Raina Greenberg]

I just, I mean, I guess I noticed that people, when they carry themselves with confidence more than like, what their body looks like. I don't know.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, I. Yeah. The day I met Ashley, we were in Aruba. So I met her at a dinner and next morning we went to this catamaran with all these people and we were all in bathing suits and there was Like a conga line of people in bikinis dancing around the boat. And we had just eaten lunch. Rice at, like, 10am rice.

[Raina Greenberg]

It was rice.

[Ashley Hess]

It was rice for breakfast. Full on carbs. And I looked great, by the way, but never in a million years would I have gotten up and gotten in that Congo line. Ashley in her bikini, jumps into the Congo line, and she's dancing around the boat with all these strangers. And I was like, that's the most most confident person I've ever seen in my life.

[Josie Balka]

That. That lasts, though. Like, that lasts. That last.

[Ashley Hess]

I was like, I want to be her friend. Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

That's so funny.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, we'll put. You guys can go to YouTube and we'll show it.

[Ashley Hess]

But that's to your point, Ashley, that's what sticks with you about a person is like, yeah, when somebody can be so mid. No, I'm just kidding.

[Josie Balka]

I don't want to sound like I'm.

[Ashley Hess]

Saying that, you know, but, like, when somebody's just like, I'm in a bikini. I just had lunch, and I'm gonna go have fun, you know? Like, that really stuck with me. And she looked great, and she's always looked great. I wouldn't have done it.

[Josie Balka]

I can't believe she went looking like that in my congline.

[Ashley Hess]

But, like, me, I probably weighed 115 pounds, and I was one of the thinnest I had ever been, and I wouldn't have done that over my dead body. But why? Why did I deprive myself of this fun that she was having?

[Josie Balka]

I have this theory about just, like, the age that we live in now in your phone. And, like, unless our parents back in the day or scrolling through a photo album. I was scrolling, like, flipping through to be like, oh, my God, my body used to look like that. That's crazy. Like, once every six months, every day, I get a memory on my, like, Snapchat or my phone being like, you were so skinny. And I'm like, oh, my God, I forgot. Thank you for reminding me. You know, And I feel like we live in this age where not only are we looking at other people and being like, oh, I wish I looked like that, or her looking at social media, not knowing what's edited, what's not. Like, you get pictures of yourself shot up your ass every day being like, you used to look like this or this happened to you or this person that you dated. So I feel like, I don't know, nostalgia is, like, a million times worse because of, like, the modern era that we live in and not Only am I hating myself because of other people. I'm hating myself because of myself, you know?

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, that's, like, a thing. You look back, you're like, yeah. When you thought you looked bigger. Yeah. Wait, I was so skinny. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. And why did it, like, I look back at times where I ruined my own day when I could have been having a really special time and even. Listen, this will be a lifelong battle for me to, like, look at my body and like it. But like, we've been on Good Morning America, the View, and I've still looked at those clips, and instead of thinking to myself, yes, 90% of me is thinking, what a huge accomplishment. But there's this 10% voice that is so loud that's like, your arms look fat in that clip. You look like you have a neck roll in that clip. And, like, how unfair of me to do that to myself. To take that away from myself. What an achievement and still see that.

[Josie Balka]

Like, whenever we get photos back from, like, being bridesmaids or something, I'm like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And then I'll see them and be like, oh, my God. Or I'll be like, oh, great. What a memory. I'll post this online. But your first. First thought is like, what do I look like?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

And then, oh, what an accomplishment. Or, what a beautiful day that was. And I think we're just, like, ingrained.

[Raina Greenberg]

It is. Yeah. We're programmed that way.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think it's years of telling yourself that people don't see you the way you see you. Like, people don't criticize you the way you criticize yourself.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, totally.

[Raina Greenberg]

So.

[Josie Balka]

But I feel like sometimes I get, like, opposite body dysmorphia, where I'll think I look so good, and then I'll see a picture, be like, oh, my God. Like, what was I thinking wearing that? But that's the opposite of what I'm trying to preach.

[Raina Greenberg]

Outfit regret is a whole nother thing. I wore that baby shower on Saturday. I just. When you're in the moment and you realize you hate what you want.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, my God.

[Raina Greenberg]

And you have to be in it. You have to get pictures in it. Like, realizing you've dressed inappropriately. I wasn't inappropriate, but I didn't want to wear that. Like, I have so many better looks at home. And when it washed over me, I was like, I hate myself.

[Josie Balka]

The whole day is ruined. Today we were sitting in the lobby of our hotel, waiting to come here, and I got my fiance to take a picture of Me at the table. I was like, just let me see. And he showed me the phone and I was like, oh, well, you can't win them all. I guess I'm already. My suitcase is zipped up. We're going, so let's go. But that was just like, immediately I was like, oh, well, whatever.

[Raina Greenberg]

So tell us again, we'll get into all this. But you work in radio and you use your voice for a living and do all of that, and you're still doing that. I just want to hear like a little bit more about you and how you like, got into all of that.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

And now you're a poet, I guess.

[Josie Balka]

And now I write poetry. I have been a radio host for like, which is. It's always crazy when you get to that point where you say that you've been in your career for 10 years. Oh God. But I've been a radio host for like 10 years. I've kind of done like a bunch of different parts of the day. And after the last four years, I kind of landed in the spot that I wanted. So I do a morning show Monday to Friday on like a country music station. Yeah, I love it too. I do that with my buddy Greg. He's my buddy now. We met doing it, but it's really fun. I like love waking up in the morning and doing that. Obviously waking up at 4 in the morning every day kind of gets a little old sometimes.

[Raina Greenberg]

So we were talking about this recently because again, I dabbled in some radio, but I was never on. When I was on the morning show, I was like, would come in it later in the show. But we were talking about people who have to get up that early. What time do you go to bed?

[Josie Balka]

Oh my God, too late. Like, my health has just gone downhill and I'm like, whatever, it just is what it is, I guess. But I go to bed at like 10.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay.

[Josie Balka]

I get in bed at 8. I go to bed at like 10 or 10:30. I scroll and like.

[Raina Greenberg]

But then you have to get up.

[Josie Balka]

I was gonna say I read but don't read. My alarm goes off at like 4:20. I get up at like 4:45.

[Ashley Hess]

What time does your fiance have to get up for work?

[Josie Balka]

6:30.

[Ashley Hess]

So he said the alarm goes off. This would be. I think about this in relationships all the time. Like if we had a two hour disparity between what time I have to get up and you like that we would break up. You could sleep in the other bedroom.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, no, I really thought about that because, like, he hates Having to hear my alarm, and I snooze it. Like, I'm like a four. 24, 25, 434, 35. Like, snooze, snooz, snooze.

[Raina Greenberg]

Not the snooze over.

[Josie Balka]

I mean, constant.

[Raina Greenberg]

We all do.

[Josie Balka]

And sometimes I'll just get like a whack in the back to be like, get up. And I'm like, okay, I will get up now. But it's not great for him. For me, it's fine.

[Ashley Hess]

Not your problem. Yeah, I would have to be the you in the relationship.

[Josie Balka]

If he wants to sleep in the other room, he can't. But I'm glad that he doesn't.

[Raina Greenberg]

So my fancy woke me up at 7 this morning. I was like, we're not doing 7. No, I know. I said I want to get up earlier, but I'm at 7:45.

[Ashley Hess]

He has turned you into a totally different person. And honestly, I can't decide if I like it or not. My mornings used to just be mine, and now I'm.

[Raina Greenberg]

I'm hearing from you.

[Ashley Hess]

7:30. I get like the first five minute voice note, and I'm like, where'd she come from?

[Josie Balka]

Well, also, having a dog doesn't help with having to get up. Like, we have to set our alarms on the weekends to get up 10 hours after we go to bed so we can let our dog out for the dog.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, well, we've been getting up with the hatch this.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

He's so into it.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, you're not.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love it. But he's discovered it. And it. We wake up with these, like, tribal flutes, and the light starts going. It feels like the spot.

[Ashley Hess]

That's nice.

[Josie Balka]

I've heard of it.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I thought you should look into it.

[Josie Balka]

Well, I can, because then it would be tribal flutes and light, and he would be sleeping for two more hours, so it would be even worse. But if I could, I would love to do that.

[Raina Greenberg]

So can you tell us a little bit about your current relationship and then we'll back back into your past relationships that have inspired the book. But I just want to hear about, you know, how you guys met. You're engaged and married.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, we met on a dating app called Hinge.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, That's.

[Josie Balka]

That's everywhere, right? Yeah, it was just Canadian, and we went on a date, and then we loved each other and got married or gonna get married. But no, he's great. I was kind of at the end of my rope. I don't know about you guys with dating, but it's like it can be tough sometimes. And it was like a Wednesday, and I had double booked two dates with two different guys. And I literally showed my co host at work that morning. I was like, there's this guy Steve, and then there's this guy. I think his name is Drew. And I was like, which one? And he looked at them and was like, go with Steve. And I was like, okay. And we went for 45 minutes. Like, I told him I only had 45 minutes. I was like, so at the end of my rope was anything? And we just, like, hit it off and had a really nice time and kept seeing each other again and again. And now we're getting married.

[Raina Greenberg]

So boring.

[Ashley Hess]

It's so boring.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's what, like, good, healthy relationship, but it's good.

[Josie Balka]

Like, when I met him, I was living downtown, and I was just about to move into a nicer apartment downtown because I had just gotten like, my dream job or whatever in my career, and he helped me move into it. And I was like, this ruined now. Like, if we don't last, you help me move into this apartment. And I don't even get to have my, like, single girl era in this really nice apartment. Whatever, it's fine. So I moved into that apartment. And then he lived deep in the suburbs, which I purposely put in the dating app to not let happen. Like, I was like 2 kilometers or miles or whatever max away from where I live downtown.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

And he must have been in the area while he was swiping. You got scared because now I live way out in the ends of the earth, so. Okay, that's so funny.

[Ashley Hess]

So I'm on this dating app called Field, and it's sort of like Grindr in the sense that it tells you how close somebody is to you. And, like, I knew this guy went out of town this weekend because I could see his distance from me. It went from one mile to 260 miles. And I was like, trying to think, like, what's in a 260 mile radius? He told me he went away this weekend for work, and I was like, I know.

[Raina Greenberg]

So crazy to, like, kind of have someone's location at that stage.

[Ashley Hess]

So only, like, sex apps do this. It's like Grinder and feel.

[Raina Greenberg]

They're 10ft away. Go get them.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, you can go up an orgasm in 10 minutes.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. And then you guys live together now?

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, we moved in together a couple years ago when my lease was ending. And at first I just kept telling him, like, you, I'm making this big sacrifice for you. Living in the Suburbs. And now I've like changed.

[Raina Greenberg]

So you guys both live in the suburbs?

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, we live now in his house.

[Raina Greenberg]

Got it.

[Josie Balka]

Our house.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. And then you're getting married a week before me.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. That's crazy timing.

[Ashley Hess]

I said it was the same week and you said October 25th. And I don't know why my brain was like, same week last week? Well, technically is because I know the exact same week of the day she's getting married.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Her rehearsal.

[Ashley Hess]

I mean, she has like stuff starting on like Thursday and Friday. So I was like, it's the same.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, now I'm reading the Wedding People and I'm like, should we start on Tuesday?

[Ashley Hess]

Kinda.

[Raina Greenberg]

Should we start. Have you read this book?

[Josie Balka]

No. Is it like a long wedding lead up?

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, it's like a rich people fancy wedding that starts which. A lot of those types of weddings start like Tuesday. No, I'm not starting on Tuesday. But we can start doing. We can start doing stuff. We start doing stuff Wednesday.

[Ashley Hess]

I'll be back from the other wedding I have to go to.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

On Monday.

[Josie Balka]

Kind of fun. We went to an Indian wedding last year. You guys invited to my wedding now, so. Yeah, but we went to an Indian wedding in the summer and it was so long. Like there's just so many different.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, my fiancee's Indian, so people are.

[Josie Balka]

Like, okay, so are you doing like the.

[Raina Greenberg]

I mean, we're doing some cultural stuff, but we're not doing the full Even just budget wise. We're not doing the full. They did a mix four or five days. Horses.

[Ashley Hess]

I don't get to ride in on a mini elephant or a mini horse.

[Raina Greenberg]

You don't know that yet. We have time.

[Ashley Hess]

You don't know that yet.

[Josie Balka]

You haven't decided.

[Ashley Hess]

If you guys ride in on an elephant and I get a mini horse behind you, we're not gonna do an animal.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's only you on the mini horse. Just down the aisle. My brother will pick you off of it and put you there to officiate. Officiate a horse?

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, you should stay on the horse while you stay on the horse.

[Ashley Hess]

I want your brother to do the Lion King thing with me when he lets me out of the horse.

[Raina Greenberg]

Off the horse.

[Josie Balka]

It's all about you now. It's like your wedding instead of hers.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, I get to officiate.

[Josie Balka]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's so awesome lining the wedding.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, we're just going to take a quick break and then we will get back into it. Neutrophil. I mentioned this up top. I will get into. Of course, everything that does for your hair. But I really think it helps with the nails too. This is the only explanation I have for why my nails are like this. Never had them like this in my life until I really started religiously taking Nutrafol. And I was with these girls this past weekend and they were talking about my nails and how good they looked and one of the girls was like, do you take neutrophil? Because same, she's the same thing going on. But I really take it for my hair and I really rely on it. I take the women's formula and this is a supplement that is going to help with your hair issues. Half of women experience hair thinning and it's nothing to be ashamed of, but it really can be something that can affect how you feel about yourself and your looks. And everyone's root cause of hair thinning are different. So one size fits all approach to hair growth doesn't cut it. And of course I think when people think about this kind of thing they're like skeptical. Does it work? Is it going to work for me? But this is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement. It is trusted by over one and a half million people and is clinically tested to deliver real results in just three to six months. And there are different formulas. The women, the Women's vegan, Women's balance and postpartum. Of course a lot of women experience issues with that postpartum. It is really easy to add to your routine. You take your four capsules daily, no prescription is needed. You can order online with free shipping and automated deliveries, which is what I do. And you can subscribe to save up to 20% and enjoy perks like a one on one naturopathic consult and a free Headspace membership to support your hair growth journey. So we love this. It has helped me so much. I can't honestly imagine my life without it. It's part of my day to day. I take this and I think it has really, really helped. If you guys are dealing with any sort of thinning, shedding, type issues, this can really help you get your hair back to where you want it. So this summer stop worrying about your hair and start making memories. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GGE10. Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code GG E10. That's nutrafol.com promo code GGE10.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay. And Helix mattresses, I mean, nothing is more important to me than sleep. I sleep eight hours. I think it's why I look youthful. I think that's why I'm able to wear the shirt I that it says woke up sexy again. Because my Helix mattress, it is so important to me to be comfortable when I sleep. And I have Helix mattresses in all my bedrooms. People have said to me, like, I dream about, like, staying at your house because your mattresses are so good. So if you go on Helix, you'll take a really quick quiz about how you sleep. So do you sleep with another person? Are you a big and tall person? Are you side sleeper, back sleeper, hot sleeper? You just take, like, a quick quiz about how you sleep and who you sleep with and what they're like, and then they'll prescribe the perfect mattress for you and they deliver it. And it is fantastic. It is so comfy. I get the best night's sleep. I just can't say enough about it. I think about when we go to hotels like that. I miss my Helix mattress. I can't wait to go home to it. I just feel like it really supports me. I personally sleep on my stomach here and there on my back. I just. I always wake up, like, feeling good, feeling comfy, well rested.

[Raina Greenberg]

I have the midnight luxe. Love it. The pillows, second to none. Best pillows. The best pillows you'll ever sleep on.

[Ashley Hess]

In the world, literally. So we're gonna give you guys a discount. Go on their site, take the quiz, see what kind of sleeper you are and what they recommend, and take their recommendations. Go to helixsleep.com GGE for 27% off site wide and a free bedding bundle. You guys get that? It's a sheet set and a mattress protector with any luxe or elite mattress order. That's helixsleep.com GGE for 27% off site wide and a free bedding bundle. Helixsleep.com GGE okay, so one thing that you and I were talking about on the phone and I was sharing with Ashley was like, a lot of your writing revolves around a past relationship reel that you posted. And it's in the book, too. And it starts with, I wish I'd never met you. And it talks about watch with caution.

[Raina Greenberg]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

It also talks about, like, that this person really didn't bring anything besides toxicity to your life. And then watching them move on with somebody else is a different reel. But you wrote this reel about, like, this loop in your head of, like, imagining them with somebody else, which really put me into the fetal position. But I want to talk about it a little bit. Cause when you and I talked about, you know, what it feels like to be in a healthy, secure relationship, and. And it's sort of a little less, quote, unquote. It's a different type of excitement.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. I like to say, like, being in love, like, for real, with the right person who's, like, good for you is really boring in the same way as, like, falling asleep in a car when someone's driving that you trust. You know what I mean? You're kind of like, this is such a boring drive. But, like, I'm happy to fall asleep, you know?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. And you're like, that was a good sleep.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, exactly. Cause you're not worried all the time. But sometimes that, like, worry and excitement that you feel when you're in a bad relationship, because you never know if you're even gonna ever see them again. Like, every time you hang out, you're.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, what a rush.

[Josie Balka]

This is the last time I ever see, like, adds this level of excitement that you don't really get with somebody who really loves you because they never make you wonder if they love you. So there's not, like this constant stream in your head. But, yeah, the I wish I never met you was just like, there's just this one person. I'm sure there's more than one person. But, like, that I was like, you just brought nothing. Like, sometimes I'm like, oh, I learned something from that. Or that was, like, really valuable to me in this way. Or, like, I made some really good friends, and, like, I made one friend that I really love. But. But outside of that, I'm just like, I wish that just never happened. Like, what a waste of my time. You know what I mean? And I don't think it's that often that something like that happens, but I think a lot of people do have that one person that they're like, why? Like, why did I. And it's like that kind of butterfly effect almost, where you're like, if that one day I hadn't done that one thing.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Maybe we just never would have met.

[Raina Greenberg]

You know, and they wouldn't have stolen weeks, months, years.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

And so are there multiple, like. Like, people these are about. Or do you just even pull from, like, the human emotion? And I'm asking that because one of my favorite singer songwriters is Dermot Kennedy.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, him. And I think he went through an interview one time where someone's like, who's this about? And he's like, I just made it up. And people were like, yeah. What the. Yeah, they were, like, upset.

[Josie Balka]

Well, because they want it to be, like, a real thing. I don't know if you guys listen to, like, you said you like country music, but, like, Luke Combs has songs where the wild things are, and it's all about his brother, like, dying in a motorcycle accident. And I was listening to him be like, oh, my God. And then I realized he didn't, like, have a brother.

[Ashley Hess]

And I was like, wait, what?

[Raina Greenberg]

Sometimes people just be making stuff up.

[Josie Balka]

Like, how did you come up with that? You know? But there are definitely people that, like, cross my mind and, like, situations that I've actually been through. But I was in a cycle of, like, people whose names I don't even remember, but, like, be doing the same thing again and again. Because I was thinking that, like, literally, yeah, dating. But, like. Or not even getting to that point. But, like, everything was just this opportunity to maybe have somebody love me. So I was just like, okay. Yeah. And you kind of fall into the same patterns. You're waiting for text messages. You're, like, not even wondering, did I have fun? You're like, did they have fun? Did they like me? And I would never really leave a date or anything. Being like, oh, did that person, like, make me have a good time? Or am I just so fun? You know, like. Cause I always had a fun time, but maybe I was having a fun time.

[Ashley Hess]

That's very much me. And I had a dating coach who's been on the show. Her name is Amy Chan. She's been on her show many times, but. But I was telling her, I'm having an inability to really feel connected to people on dates. And she was like, are you pausing to let somebody else ask you questions? Are you, like. She's like, are you spending a lot of time interviewing somebody else, showing how great you are and how funny you are, but, like, really not sharing a lot of depth about yourself? And I was like, yeah, that sounds. Or me.

[Raina Greenberg]

I wanted to know if you like them. I. I don't know.

[Ashley Hess]

I leave the date, and I'm like, I killed that date. I was the star of that date. Yeah, I was amazing on that date.

[Josie Balka]

It's like, you're putting on a performance. Mormons. And you don't even give them, like, an opportunity to be who they are because you're like, oh, I just gotta shine through this. And, like, make sure that we get through this, especially because you, like, talk to people for a living, and you're used to having to keep a conversation going. So it's not only that, but also you guys have a really interesting job. And a lot of the time when you have an interesting job and you're talking to someone who. There's nothing wrong with this. It's a great job. Works in finance. They're like, I work in finance. You're, like, cool. And then they probably have a lot of questions for you about, like, your cool job and the cool people you talk to and all that kind of stuff, and it, like, gets in the way a little bit sometimes times.

[Raina Greenberg]

Would you find that because you have a cool job, you work in radio? Like, would you?

[Josie Balka]

I guess locally, yeah. It was interesting because, like, people listen to the radio in the city, But I tried to kind of push away from that a little bit just because I didn't want it to be like, what if they don't actually think I'm cool? They just think that I do cool stuff, you know, and that might cross your mind, too. Sometimes when you're dating, I'm just thinking.

[Ashley Hess]

About, like, trying to find other topics other than my work life. It's like, what Ashley and I do is so fun. I mean, we get to record two episodes a week. We're on tour all the time.

[Josie Balka]

Your business.

[Ashley Hess]

We are a sex toy company.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Ashley Hess]

And I have been thinking, like, what kind of questions can I ask people? And, like, lines of conversation that have nothing to do with what I do for work.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. I went out with a guy that I just ghosted me. It was. It was terrible. We slept together, whatever. But I remember the date, and he was so interested in what I did, and I, like, looked back on it, and we'd had drinks, and I just. I shared too much about our business. I, like, trusted him, weirdly. Like, we hung out for hours. It was during COVID You're in the trenches together, on the street, in a tent, you know.

[Josie Balka]

The times, though, was different. You're life story.

[Raina Greenberg]

But I walked away. I was like. I just. I didn't tell him any, like, trade secrets, but I was like. I just, like, told him too much.

[Josie Balka]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

I felt like I was being interviewed about what we do. He was so enthralled by it. And, like, I would rather someone obviously like me for my personality, you know, the way I am with my family, my dog, my friends, than, like, a job. Even though that's a huge part of who we are as well, but.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, but in those situations, when you walk away from that and you. And, like, I don't know if it's just, like, a women thing, maybe men go through it too, but you start to spiral because you're like, what did I do wrong? What did I say wrong? What did they not like about me? And then, like, there's just something about the people that didn't want you that, like, really lingers with you versus the people who really did love you. Because I feel like I've been in love and had really, like, a few really great relationships over the years. But, like, I don't sit there and, like, think about the guys that I dated, that it was, like, nice, and we broke up and, like, both wanted to break up, and we were like, okay, that's. Sometimes I'll say that was a really nice guy I dated from this time to this time. And I, like, say nice things about them to my current partner and, like, whatever. But the guys that, like, didn't want you, it'll still cross your mind. I'm wondering, like, wait, and you're, like, 80 years old. If you're sitting there going, what did I do? Like, I wouldn't even like you anymore for sure. But, like, I just want to know why you didn't want me and I wanted you. It doesn't make any sense.

[Raina Greenberg]

It sticks with you.

[Ashley Hess]

It does. I actually. I mean, I think it's a good point. The stuff that we, like, talk about at dinner for hours and I'm back with our friends, it is the people that, like, didn't behave in a way that I wanted wanted them to. And the thing that, like, sticks with me is, like, even if, like, if I didn't like you, but you, like, trumped me on the shitty behavior card. That really sticks with me. And I'm like, I didn't want to date you either. Yeah, beat me to it.

[Josie Balka]

Exactly. But it's always funny because if we all have, like, I don't. Can't speak for everybody, but I think a lot of people have that one person, too, that your friends remember as, like, that person who really messed you up. And, like, you were doing crazy shit and you were, like, saying the most things, and you were like, he did this to me. But, like, I deserved it. You know what I mean? Like, things like that where you're like, oh, he didn't show up for this, or he got really mad at me for this. And now when it comes up, like, we laugh and my girlfriends are like, remember? And I'm Like, Kate, I was crying on the floor in my apartment every day because I was, like, just so thinking that this was gonna get better. And I was so in love with that guy. And, like, if everybody just gave him a chance the way that I did, we'd all really like him. And, like, you know, that kind of stuff.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

But it's just crazy how you can laugh about it now and, like, you kind of push it off to the side, but it fucks you up. Like, and it did in the moment, too.

[Raina Greenberg]

And you're like, who was she?

[Josie Balka]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, to look back on my old self and my past relationship before I moved away from Atlanta, like, I don't even know that girl. I mean, I was obviously a lot younger, but, like, the yelling and the screaming and the drama and the breakups and the crying and the friends having to hear that all the time and sticking through it with me, thank God. But, like, I would annoy myself, and I couldn't be more in a different relationship, different person. But. But I think it's also comforting to know you can change.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, people can. Definitely. I mean, I think that there's certain ways that we can change and then certain people who never do. And, like, that's kind of like, I just have a feeling about certain people that they're probably still the same. And I hope they're not, but they probably are. But I was just thinking this, like, on the flight out here, because I just think about the most emotional, annoying things all the time. Was just like. I was like, there's no way that that's the same girl that I am. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Thinking back.

[Josie Balka]

Thinking back. Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, what you've been through.

[Ashley Hess]

I think that it's important to give yourself grace and realize that we are different people in every relationship. And we had this great conversation with Esther Perel. I forget what she called it, but everybody's just sort of this figurative, I do a thing, and then you react to the thing, and then I react to the way that you reacted to it. I think that everybody that's dated me would just describe me differently. There's people that would describe me as being really avoidant, and there's people that experience me as pretty anxious in terms of my attachment style. And I've just shown up with different partners in different ways, and it's okay to look back and give yourself grace and say, I didn't feel safe in my body with this person, and I acted out of an anxiety, like an anxious attachment style towards them.

[Josie Balka]

And you also believe People, when they tell you who you are, if you really care about them. You know what I mean? So, like, if you're with somebody that you really believe could be the person for you, and they're telling you that you're not good enough, or you're bad at this, or you're not funny or you're ugly or you're fat or whatever, like, you're, like. Probably, like, you must be. Right. Because if that's what you're hearing all the time and you, like, for a while, I really think, become the person that they made you think you are. Which I get is what, like, the epitome of being a narcissist really is. Is, like, you get to convince everybody around you that they are different. And, like, that's kind of what it is if. Unless they're real. Yeah, unless you're acknowledging that that's what they are. But sometimes you have to walk away from it to see it from afar. But, like, you become who they make you feel like you are. And then once you come out of that, like, shell, and it can take years or months or days or whatever, how long it takes, you're like, oh, my God. Crazy.

[Ashley Hess]

I just. I see Ashley in her current relationship. I wasn't around for the last one. I've just heard lore for years.

[Raina Greenberg]

If I could have dinner.

[Ashley Hess]

If I could have dinner with one person, dead or alive, he's up there. But, like, she would tell me about these, like, crazy fights and the breakups and the makeups and the crying and all this stuff, and, like, the toxicity. And it just couldn't be further from, like, who you are today with your current partner. I can't imagine that ever happening for one minute, one hour. I can't imagine you speaking to him like that. He would never speak to you like that. I can't. You know, but it, like, it's always.

[Raina Greenberg]

In the back of your mind, and. I mean, my current fiance, we. I don't know if I'd call it a conflict. We just. Just. We're having a discussion about some things recently. I mean, we moved in together recently. It's been wonderful, but there's some growing pains, whatever, so. And you're like, those things creep in. It's like, it's gonna happen. It's gonna be the way it was with this person. You have to remind yourself this is a totally different person, totally different life, totally different decade. But I love to feel the growth within yourself and the relationship that you're in. But you hope that, like, those past partners have changed, too. Like, if I hope that my ex isn't.

[Josie Balka]

I know that they're not, but they're doing the same thing.

[Raina Greenberg]

I hope that he's. He's just, like, looking back on a relationship in the same way of. I can't believe Ashley and I used to yell and scream and cry and be so volatile. Like, I hope he's in, like, a nice, stable relationship, too.

[Josie Balka]

But I think that there's, like, certain things, though, that you just. After you get out on the other side and you can see the light again, even if it takes a long time, you realize so heavily how certain things are just an absolutely not for you now. And if your new person tries to do that, you'll freak out on them like. Like you used to, but only in the way that you're like, I don't deal with that, so that's gonna be a no for me. Even if you're, like, kind of overreacting to it. It's just like, you've created these boundaries now that you're not gonna change. But I do wonder about the people that you think of that are, like, the worst people that in your mind when. When you cross their mind, are they like, oh, she was nice. Like, I miss her, or are they like, I hate her, too, you know?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. I think I know the answer of what my ex would say, because he's told me, but he still might. Look, I don't know. But I like that there's behaviors. It runs the gamut from how you speak to me, your level of honesty, to how you are with money. Raina was like. Even the whiff of that, like, what she dealt with in a past relationship, she wouldn't even, like, touch it. Totally. It's like a hard line.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. And listen, we don't know how to deal with situations until we deal with the situation. Of course I'm gonna be better at it it the second time around. And, you know, when I feel that somebody isn't contributing financially, a couple times, I think I would nip it in the bud immediately.

[Josie Balka]

Like, it's like when you get food present, you're not going to, like, go eat there again. You know, you're just like, I'm done with that, actually.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

I think that the fear that we all had, I think maybe when we're younger gets better as you get older, is that, like, you're going to leave them and they're going to treat the next person better. And I'm playing with this real that I have of you. Let me turn the sound on people.

[Josie Balka]

Got mad at this one. The person who ruined you because they didn't love you properly probably isn't going to ruin the next person in the same way. They may actually never do it again. And I know it's hard not to sit in the front row and expect it to happen in the same way that you're certain the train you're waiting for will show or the alarm you set will go off in the morning. You can expect it, but you can't be sure. And you're not evil to hope the pattern or be so you can have more proof that it was them and not.

[Ashley Hess]

We can pause it and just listen to you talk about it. But, like, I do think that we all live this deep seated fear that, like, somebody's gonna treat the next person better. And with time, I think you hopefully had the same perspective that Ashley does where like, you're like, I hope their life is good and they treat somebody really good. But in the moment you're like, I cannot believe I have to watch this unfold on Instagram and social media. And they're probably so much better to her than me.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love her more.

[Josie Balka]

You almost are hoping that you're like, well, she's probably dealing with XYZ that I dealt with because that's just who he is or whatever. But in the same way, and sometimes it sucks to think about the same way that you grow, other people grow too. And I actually got like a lot of comments on that one of people being like, narcissists don't change. Like, and I understand that there's like a whole heavier side of that from what I meant by this one specifically. It was just like the guy who you kind of were like, why not me? Like, is gonna pick someone else and probably take them out for dinner and book reservations and take really good care of them and love them and introduce them to your family or introduce you to you heard of their family or whatever. And I think that's something that's obviously a huge struggle to think of afterwards because you're like, okay, so you'd call me all the time, late at night, two o' clock in the morning. And now you're like calling your mom about this girl, like, why her? You know?

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, why not me? Why her?

[Ashley Hess]

Well, not everybody is a narcissist. Yes. I don't think a true diagnosed narcissist could change. But people grow up, their life circumstances change. They meet somebody that doesn't trigger them the way that you trigger them for whatever reason. And vice versa. Like, people just grow up.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. And I think that it's hard to wrap your head around that sometimes. But, like, somebody didn't want you doesn't make them a bad person. It just means they didn't want you.

[Raina Greenberg]

And you're not their person. And, like, you will find your person and look back and say, thank God I'm not with this guy. But it's hard in the moment if you think they're the one. Oof. And it's not reciprocated.

[Josie Balka]

That's the problem is, like, when you really, really think that. But a lot of the times, and I think this is a really great thing about girls and women and girlfriends and whatever, you'll be like, oh, this guy, like, didn't want me and your friends. Like, well, he's an asshole. And I'm like, no, he's not, though. Like, I. He just didn't like me. Like, that's fine. He's allowed to not like me. Yeah. But when you have all your troops rallying around you being like, he's the worst, you're like, yeah, he's the worst. And it's like, it's his problem. But I think that if you can come around to be like, hey, the best relationship for both of us would be if we wanted each other totally. You'd be totally trapped in this if you. If you stuck with me because you didn't want that again.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's easier said than done when you're in it and you're truly feeling those emotions and they're like a drug, but it's not your person if they don't want you.

[Josie Balka]

Like, that's. It's literally that simple.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, but that's so funny. And we've talked about this. I think we talked about with Jared Freed, like, years ago, where, like, you want that crazy story to share brunch, this terrible thing he did, and your friends are all like, he's natural. He's a narcissist. And you're like, no, I just. It just. I don't know. It just didn't work.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, I know. That's. That's one of my things. I have so many friends who will just jump down the throat of anybody else. Like, I'll be telling a story. And they're like, she did what? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hang on. I'm friends with her too. I'm just telling you a story. And, like, it's really great to have friends that fiercely devote themselves to being your Friend. But sometimes it can actually be a little toxic in the way that you're like, wait, you need to see both sides of this. And I think that, like, some of the best friends that you'll find in your life are the ones who will be like, I actually don't think, I don't know if he was, if he was the problem in that, it might have been you.

[Raina Greenberg]

We say that and that can come with age too. That we will help each other see the other side of something. That a conflict with a friend, with a partner. Like, I'm not a. Let me play devil's advocate friend. Get the fuck out of here with that. But sometimes you do have to look at a top down perspective of someone that's not in it. I think we do that for each other a lot.

[Josie Balka]

Sometimes you have to just be like, I feel like the best thing that you can do is not make somebody feel worse with something they already feel bad about. But if they're not seeing any of their own issues, you can open their eyes up to them being the problem if they actually really are. But there's different ways to approach it. For sure.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah. I think people overuse narcissist, gaslighter, pathological liar.

[Josie Balka]

Those things exist and they're very serious.

[Ashley Hess]

They're very abusive.

[Josie Balka]

When you're talking about someone who's not that way and calling them that and telling everyone that they are that. When people who've actually dealt with narcissists and abusers are like, that's not what that felt like. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

And I, I always think about this thing my mom said to me so many years ago. I was with somebody that cheated on me all the time. And I spent so much time being so gutted and saying to her, like, why did you do this? Why didn't he want me? Why does. And she said in the nicest way possible, like, why did you. You knew that this person was doing this. And, you know, it's helpful to, I guess, ask these questions, but you need to also ask yourself, like, why did I stay? What drew me to this? How can I correct in the next relationship? And I do try to, like, look at my own role and stuff. And Ashley and I were going back and forth about something recently about this guy. And I did have to say, like, I have participated in this too. And I have egged this behavior on in my own way. Like, I can't just be like, I hate him, even though I'm mad about something. Like. Like, I participated in it.

[Josie Balka]

You know, when you're like, oh, they only text me at 2 o' clock in the morning.

[Ashley Hess]

But you go, but you answer, yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Like, if you're showing up at their house, why would they not text you the next time? You know?

[Raina Greenberg]

And those things don't help you grow at all when all you do is blame somebody else and not take ownership of your responsibility in it. Okay, I have a question for you. So when you met your now fiance, had you been single for a little bit? Like, were you really, like, I'm ready to find somebody and settle down, or were you, like, dating?

[Josie Balka]

I'd been, like, frivolously dating. Like, I was just kind of like, going on a date here, going on a date there, texting here and there with, like, different guys or whatever. But, like, I had not been in a serious relationship for, like, a couple of years. I want to say maybe two years. And I just remember I was at the point of meeting him, sick of everything. Like, I had not taken a break, but I was in that era of, like, deleting the dating app. Not only deleting it, but, like, deactivating it and then 10 minutes later, making the profile over again and like, meeting the same people again and again. And I was just kind of at a moment of, I think I'll be done if this guy ends up sucking. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

This one I marked, which I love this. And it's just, if you're not the love of your own life, what's the point? Like, that kind of thing and you the ends with, you're the love of your life. Don't ever forget. I mean, it's just really, like, made me emotional because that's how we think. Like, you should love yourself and feel complete without a partner. So I was wondering if that came from your own experience and kind of feeling that type of way before you met him.

[Josie Balka]

I think, like, meeting him, him made me realize how much fun I was having on my own and how much fun I'm having in, like, a different way because he's around. And, like, I really, really romanticize my life when I was living in my little apartment. Like, I had a few little ones and they were just, like, crappy and, like, ugly. And I loved it. I had, like, one cup, and I, like, love that time. You know what I mean? People come to my house, they bring their own cup. I was like, I was poor, but it was really fun.

[Ashley Hess]

Totally.

[Josie Balka]

You know, and now we live in, like, this nice house and we, like, have our beautiful life, and all I can do is Romanticize how much fun I had with just me. And I'm, like, so excited about all the experiences that I got to have because I was by myself. And, like, I just love me for that. I think I did such a good job of giving myself such a fun time, and I made such great friends, and I found the guy I was looking for, and I did it all just me. And it was, like, just such a great thing, and it made my life such a cool story, Even just what's already happened. And there's so much left, I hope. But, like, I love myself more because he is so nice to me. I guess made me realize that I was actually pretty great the whole time.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, also, just the single years are so important. Like, I just. I want everyone to experience that.

[Josie Balka]

You can't know until it's over.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, I know. At least I lay in bed on a Sunday night just, like, having my glass of wine, having dinner, watching tv, and I'm like, like, so happy alone. I'm so happy I don't have to do it with somebody else.

[Josie Balka]

So nice.

[Raina Greenberg]

I felt like that. I felt it in the moment.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, you always did.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. I was just like, this is the best.

[Josie Balka]

I mean, I wish I In the moment, I would, like, find these, like, core. Deep core lonely moments and those two. But I wish that I just had a little more of my together at that time so I could have been like, wow, this is so cool. Like, you know.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Also that, you know, like, when I talk about the most fun being single, it was like when we were like, start the podcast. We're making all this money. We were trying traveling the world. When I was in my 20s, single, I wasn't like, this is amazing. My one cup. You know, you're like, poor. I know.

[Josie Balka]

You have nothing. My car smells like cigarettes. I was like, I'm out. Like, it was a disaster. And now I look back at those times, and I'm like, some of the biggest struggle points of my life where I was at the grocery store, like, not buying cheese because it was so expensive. I look back to that, and I'm like, wow, that was so fun.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

You know?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Yes, totally.

[Ashley Hess]

Aww. Well, can we talk about friendship a little bit? Because you write about friendship breakups, and I was asking you what your listeners reach out to you about, and you said you get a lot of requests, a lot of song requests for breakup content.

[Josie Balka]

No. Yeah, for sure.

[Ashley Hess]

For friendship breakup content. And we talk about it a lot on this show, and I think that, like, those are the relationships that get a little less airtime. But they're so, like. The friend breakups are so formative, whether it's, like, a slow burn or something, like, really catastrophic. So can we talk about it for a little bit? Maybe I'll play one of your reels.

[Josie Balka]

I was making a close friends list on Instagram, and I scrolled past your name. I scrolled past your name, and I didn't add you to my list of close friends. I had to stop for a moment in disbelief to come to terms with the fact that you and I are not close friends anymore. We're actually not friends at all. It's funny how when you learn about love, you learn about family and you learn about partners, but you don't learn that much about how deeply you're capable of loving your friends. How a piece of you can die with a friendship. Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

I just.

[Josie Balka]

I find it so hard. Like, I mean, I obviously connect with everything I write because I write it, but I'm just, like, picturing me the closet. Like, I play the piano behind everything, too. You're playing piano, like, after. Like, I'll listen back and be like, let's score this track.

[Raina Greenberg]

But you're not doing it.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah, amazing.

[Josie Balka]

But, like, when I hear them back, I'm like, whoa, that's like. It's weird to hear, like, from, like, in a cool moment like this. But anyways, yeah. Friendship breakups are one of the most fucked up kind of breakups that you'll ever experience. I really, truly believe that.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Because you're not supposed to, like, we all know you're supposed to find one partner. That's whatever you're into monogamy and.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, whatever you want to do, you.

[Raina Greenberg]

Can only have one.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

You know, if that's what the life you want, which is, like, probably the norm, but who cares? Do what you want. So it's like, you know, you're gonna break up and go through these relationships, and that's not really what you're. You're not taught that about friends. You're like, friends are forever. I want to. Silver. I want to. Like, you're supposed to keep all your friends. That's obviously also not true, but, yeah, that. I think it's harder for so many reasons, and it feels so personal.

[Josie Balka]

Well, you don't get told that you, like, love your friends in that way. You're not like, oh, like, you love your friends as much as you love your partner. And if something happens that's gonna break your heart, like, that's not something we learn about you learn about divorce and breakups from monogamous relationships. Whatever or whatever relationship you're in, if you break up with all your partners, that's fine. That would really hurt, too. But there's also what I notice a lot when I post about friendship and stuff. There are a lot of people who come in there. Like, I don't have that one best friend. And I always want to be like, you don't need just one that comes to mind that's kind of like your one romantic partner. It's just everybody that you kind of find along the way. Even if it's somebody that you see at work every day, it's still there. It's like a support system.

[Raina Greenberg]

And I validate those people's pain as well. Like, because that is tough. I was talking to someone recently who was struggling with something, and he feels like he doesn't really have that person. And I'm his friend, but not his best friend. And he can lean on me, but we're not going to be like Raina and I and be the emergency contact, first call type of thing. And so I feel for people who don't have that. It's almost longing that you feel for not having a romantic partner. It's like, I don't have that best friend. And there's a multitude of reasons. I mean, some people are more shy. Some people have moved around a lot. They're neurodivergent, whatever reason, but it's. That hurts, too. So I, like, feel for people that you see that are watching this content about friend breakups, and they're like, I don't even have a best friend to have a breakup with.

[Josie Balka]

I almost think that it can almost be harder to not have any friends and to, like, not have a partner partner. Because through that, people.

[Ashley Hess]

That's my life.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's a hot.

[Josie Balka]

No, it's.

[Ashley Hess]

Life is better than mine. I have so many friends.

[Josie Balka]

Exactly.

[Ashley Hess]

No, that's. Listen, I'm just gonna clip that and be like, rain is the worst. Oh, no one's life is better than mine. A couple peoples are better than mine.

[Josie Balka]

But if your friends make your life what it is, and, like, I don't know, I would leave, like, dates and, like, nights out with Steve. Like, we live together, so we'll go for dinner and sit there. We're like. Like, we live together. We already talked about everything, you know, like, we're here on this trip together. We're having the best time. Like, we have a few drinks, like, start chatting, and then eventually we're like. But like, with your friends, I feel like it just. The conversation never stops, dies, and there's always something to talk about. And especially when you have newer friends, you're, like, catching them up on things that happened to you before that they met you. And there's, like, different levels of friends, and you have ones from when you're young and when you're older. And I think adult friends. And there's something about that in there. But, like, I think it's, like, one of the most wholesome friendships you can find. Because. Because when you're a kid, you're kind of forced into each other because you're learning everything. And then when you're an adult, you pick your friends based on what they've already been through. And, like, all these things that you think were the worst, other people think that's the best part about you. And I think that that's the coolest thing about the friends you make when you're growing up.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that. And I want to tag onto what I said about people who, like, don't have a best friend. It's like, it's also never too late to. You can make a new friend any day. I'm 32, 33, I think. I haven't even. 34.

[Ashley Hess]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

Anyway, it's like, the weird in our 30s, and we're just like, family.

[Josie Balka]

Do you have, like, a weird way you've met a friend in your, like, adult life?

[Ashley Hess]

Jenny.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. Jenny is weird. Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, I guess a lot of us meet on the Internet.

[Josie Balka]

That's.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, sort of on the Internet. I had this blog, and I was looking for contributors at the time. I was trying to kind of grow and scale it. And a girl I knew from Atlanta was like, my friend Jenny is so funny. She should contribute to the blog. So she emails me and we collaborate on this blog. And then we just became like, we didn't have each other's number. We would, like, email here and there. And then I hooked up with this guy and met him on Tinder. He worked with him at the Doubletree downtown in Atlanta. He was there for business. I took a cookie on the way.

[Ashley Hess]

Out, I was gonna say.

[Raina Greenberg]

And then he was like, you should come to Austin. And I was like, yeah, I'll come to Austin and fuck you again. You know? And so I, like, emailed Jenny or DM her. I'm like, what's your number? Like, let's be real friends. And I'm like, I think I'm gonna come fuck this guy in Austin. She lived in Austin. I'm like, can I also hang out with you? And she's like, yeah. So then I get, then I get a boyfriend. And I was like, I'm not going to go stay with that guy in Austin, but I still want to hang out with Jenny. So you went, so, yeah. So I was like, hey, I have a boyfriend now. She'd been following along on Instagram, she knew I had a boyfriend. And I was like, because I'm not going to see that guy from Tinder, but I'd still love to come to Austin, hang out with you. She's like, well, you can stay with me. So I go stay with her. Never met her in person. I kind of pre gamed the meeting because I was like, I know she's going to be cool, but like, it's still weird. And I'm going back to her apartment with her. Like I slept in her bed with her.

[Josie Balka]

Like it's. But it's actually like. But that's the thing about girls. And I truly think girlhood just like starts when you're young and then it never ends.

[Raina Greenberg]

No man has this story.

[Josie Balka]

No, like, men don't do this. I recently had this girl reach out to me in an email. She lives in Calgary, where I live. And she was like, her name's Shayla. She's like, hey, I noticed that like in the background of some of your videos you got some jaggy ass blinds. Like, they look, they look really bad. She's like, I have a blinds company. Can I come fix your blinds? And I was like, I have a blinds company. Okay. She comes to my house and she like brings all her blinds stuff and she's in my kitchen and we're just chatting about life and the blinds. And she did a couple arcs extra ones in the house. And now she's coming to my wedding. This was like six months.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Like, I was like, do you want to come to my wedding?

[Raina Greenberg]

I love.

[Josie Balka]

Steve was like, just invite them. Like, you're with her all the time now.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

And the blinds look great. She did such a good job.

[Ashley Hess]

I was reading a book this morning. So we have an interview right after you for Lindsay and Krista, who do almost 30, and they have a book coming out and they talked about friendships in your early 20s as being like contextual friendships. So you have a lot of friends just from like where you grew up or your sorority you were in or at work. They're sort of like your nine to five friends. And it's hard to like let those go kind of. But in my 30s I have a different type of contextual friend where I'm like, well, I have friends that I go to the movies with. I have a friends that I'll go on food adventures. Like I have friends that I'm like let's go to Koreatown and bop around to three places we've never heard of. And they're like, yes, done. Like I have those friends, I have party friends, I have travel friends. And that's nice as you get older. Like I do have like two best friends in the world. I'm really lucky. I have two people that are just like family to me and that's Ashley and my other best friend. But like I have all these other friends that just, they're for this and that and those are really valuable to me.

[Josie Balka]

In my 30s it can be so nice. It sometimes can be a little bit overwhelming when you like need to get everyone together cuz they don't all know each other. And then you have to try to talk to everybody at the same time. Like my bachelorette and nobody knows each other. Oh, they just know me. Right.

[Raina Greenberg]

So I, I had to divide them up.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, they've all messaged me be like, can I sleep with you? And I'm like no, I can't sleep with everyone. Like I. You guys have to get to know each other. We have to share beds. I don't know what to do, who's.

[Raina Greenberg]

Going to sleep, who's going to sleep with me.

[Josie Balka]

Obviously like girls always get along. Well, that's actually such a lie. Some of them will mostly get along, I think. But like I think that like we said about the friends in your twenties, you grow apart from them, unfortunately. Like the friends that you met in college, friends you met in high school, like kind of. Especially if you don't live in town anymore. Every time you see them, you're either gonna have more and more in common and be like no time has passed or you're gonna really feel the time that passed and that you don't really have that much in common anymore. And that can be also like a really shitty kind of friendship breakup where like nothing happened and you just stop talking.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. And we say friendships run their course.

[Josie Balka]

They really do.

[Raina Greenberg]

And if it starts to feel really forced and difficult and conversations and I have so examples that are like people from college that still feel like family and they know me on such a different level. We do not talk all the time. You know, like they're all coming to the wedding, coming to the bachelorettes and everything. And then there's people from college that we did just stop being friends, and that's okay, too. And some of this is, like, you know, based on lifestyle, values, the way of the world today. I think you sometimes look at people like, we just don't look at the world the same way, and our values don't align. There's that, too. And that rips people apart. And that's okay, too.

[Josie Balka]

That's a really hard one where you kind of see other people's values. I've got values. Of course, I'm not very vocal about them, but I feel like if someone's super vocal and not open to hear your opinions, it also makes it kind of harder to keep a friendship alive. But, like, my mom has her friends from high school, and every year they go on a trip still.

[Raina Greenberg]

My mom, too.

[Josie Balka]

She's like. She's almost 70, you know, like, your girl has never had friends. They're, like, laughing and, like, going swimming in this weird lake that they love. Have fun, you know, But. And yeah, every time she comes back, they have a name for them. I won't be able to think of it, but they have a nickname for all four of them.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's so. I know. My mom has high school and college and present, like, her friends that she's made. I mean, she has three friend groups.

[Josie Balka]

I love the idea that this just goes on and on forever and ever.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. It can. Been married to my dad this whole time.

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. And he's like, probably doesn't even remember half the years.

[Raina Greenberg]

He's like, one friend.

[Josie Balka]

Well, guys, and this is the thing.

[Raina Greenberg]

I couldn't relate less.

[Josie Balka]

I don't think that we acknowledge men's friendships enough because so many situations for men is like, they're. They're friends from high school and they are all still friends, and then they just don't make any new friends ever again. Like, it's like you have the same friends in the same Subway sandwich order, and it never changes. Yeah. And, like, Steve's friends are him, his buddies. And I've just gotten closer with a bunch of his buddies, wives. Like, two of them are in our wedding. Like, it's amazing. But boys just keep their friends and they don't get sick of each other.

[Ashley Hess]

Well, there's, like, a lack thereof of, like, new friends. We've talked about this on episodes for a long time, and I think about how women bond and men bond. And, like, when I meet a new friend, we're. We're sharing stories, we're emotional. We're talking about breakups or family stuff. And you form this bond with somebody very quickly. Whereas, like, men, like, one guy will go through a breakup and go out with his other guy friend, and he comes home and he. And you're like, what did they break up for? And they have no information. And you're like, what do you mean? You just didn't ask.

[Josie Balka]

I know.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, that's not all men lack.

[Josie Balka]

No, no, not all that.

[Ashley Hess]

But, like, even the men that are like that, I think have really deep relationships with me and their girlfriends. But with two men, they're not talking about this, right?

[Josie Balka]

No, they don't talk to each other about it. Like, I'll hang out with a girl for the first time, and I'll be like, you'll never believe about her relationship with her dad. Like, it's just like mine. And then I'll come home and his buddy just got engaged in, like, Italy. And I'm like, how did he do it? He's like, I don't know.

[Raina Greenberg]

No idea.

[Josie Balka]

Okay.

[Raina Greenberg]

I think my fiance's great at connecting with people and making friends, actually. But even some of the stuff he doesn't know. Yeah, I'm like, I'll ask them myself. That.

[Josie Balka]

You're like, I could get that information immediately. Right now? Yeah, ask the question.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, even, like, someone that's really close to him is, like, moving. And I'm like, why are they moving? He's like, I don't know. I'm like, yeah, but they said they would never move there. And he's like, well, I don't know.

[Josie Balka]

I'm like, you're moving. Why, like, so funny here?

[Ashley Hess]

It's, like, sort of the fault of men, but, like, I think having emotions and talking about your feelings is, like, you're a pussy. So, like, men don't bring it up and talk about it.

[Josie Balka]

No, it's more just like. And I mean, especially when it's with these friends that you've had since you were 6 years old, you're just like, we'll figure it out.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, right?

[Josie Balka]

You're just accepting what they're saying and letting it. But it's funny because it just doesn't fly the other way around. Like, I'll tell a story and Steve will be like. And I'm like, yeah, you have questions.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, ask me a question. It's so funny. You talk about being, like, to dinner with him and, like. Like, not having anything to talk about because you live together. And, like, I refuse to be a couple that's not talking in a restaurant.

[Josie Balka]

No.

[Raina Greenberg]

So the other night we were at Dinner. And we were kind of tapped out. We've been together like, the whole weekend.

[Ashley Hess]

I couldn't believe you went out to dinner after. We spent the whole day doing activities.

[Josie Balka]

That's. That's hard, though. Sometimes you're just like, I don't know.

[Ashley Hess]

How she did it.

[Raina Greenberg]

And we have a lot. We're buddies. We have a lot of. We're not best friends, but we have a lot to talk about. And like, I was like, okay, let's rank our top five favorite dates. Yeah. Literally will pull something out of my.

[Ashley Hess]

Ass with each other or do just in the.

[Josie Balka]

In life. Not with each other.

[Raina Greenberg]

You can do better with other people.

[Ashley Hess]

Like, three of the things on your five are just not with him.

[Raina Greenberg]

That's my next thing. Rank your worst dates. Not with me, other people. But literally, I made him sit there. We had a fun conversation of our top five favorite dates. But sometimes you.

[Josie Balka]

You realize too, when you're out with your partner, like, we don't talk enough at home. Like, we've been out here in LA for the first time and we had two nights where we really send it home. Like, we had a lot of cocktails and we're just like, laughing and having the best night. And I'm like, we should do this at home. And he's like, I don't think we should pick up drinking this much at home. But, like, other than that. Yes. We could, like, chat more at home.

[Raina Greenberg]

We should get drunk for at home. That'd be great.

[Ashley Hess]

I like talking about that, though. That some people just. Not that you have, but, like, you kind of stop seeing each other at home. You're just like, they're in one corner of the house doing their thing, and it's just like, you forget to have those conversations because you don't have to.

[Josie Balka]

Well, it just sometimes gets, like a little repetitive. Right. Like someone comes home. How was your day? Good.

[Ashley Hess]

You?

[Josie Balka]

Was it actually good? I don't know. Like, you know, or if you have completely different jobs or you've already kind of talked everything out with everybody else throughout the day.

[Raina Greenberg]

Right.

[Josie Balka]

And you start and like, that's the joy of being in love and having it be easy. Because sometimes you can just shut the fuck up and not say anything and they're not going to be mad about it, you know?

[Raina Greenberg]

Totally.

[Josie Balka]

But yeah, it's definitely important to still explore those questions. Ask those questions. Have them in your back pocket.

[Ashley Hess]

I have a question for you. Okay. Your two top five lists, his and yours, were they similar or totally different?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, it was kind of a What.

[Ashley Hess]

I would encourage people to do is.

[Raina Greenberg]

It turned into, like, a collaborative list where we were kind of like, there were our.

[Ashley Hess]

Five is a lot, by the way. Like, three. I can recall five's a lot.

[Raina Greenberg]

But we've been on so many dates because we were long distance. Like, we're able to be. Like, what about when we were in Chicago? Like, we were able to.

[Josie Balka]

We would have met up in cool places too, right?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

And like, our first date was just the most epic date of all time. Like, we both agree at Alice, but then we went to up and up and had cocktails and then we went and danced at the Folly. We were making out, clearing beer bottles around us. I was like, straddling him on that couch. Like, it was just an epic New York day.

[Ashley Hess]

They started having this. He took the train to New York to meet, and she was having the, like, pre drinks before dinner with him and me and like, my other best friend and one of our friends were hiding in the window.

[Josie Balka]

You did that?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah. We look so uncomfortable too. We. He's just kind of hunched over.

[Josie Balka]

Did you have pictures of them?

[Ashley Hess]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

We'll put it on the screen.

[Ashley Hess]

I took pictures. And it's funny, like, I always think you don't know that you're living such a special moment. Like, I know you don't. I get, like, sort of of emotional thing. My other best friend is getting married. And I remember the day that she was, like, going on her first date with him when we were in our early 20s, we were kids. And she was like, I have to take this guy out to dinner. It was a work thing. Like, a work thing. And we were just like, he's so old. He's like 29.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, God.

[Ashley Hess]

He was like 28 or 29. We were like, he's so old. But, like, I feel emotional when I, like, going to their. Like, they're getting married. And I just think, like, I didn't know I was living such a. Such a pivotal moment in their life in that moment, in that moment.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, I remember Corey's text of this first date with him. This is my best friend from my other best friend. But. And we've been friends since we were four. Like, what should I wear? Like, I have it.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Like, in my favorites, you know, just like, that's the man that she, like, has three kids with now. And, you know.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, I know. And you just don't ever know when that's like, in the midst of unfolding. But that's why I love that trend online right now called like the. The butterfly effect trend or whatever, where you're like, so you're telling me that if I didn't do xyz, I never would have met this person? And it's like, you could have just stayed home. And you can use it in a bad context. Like what we were talking about earlier when you meet someone and you hate them and you wish you never met them. Like, oh, I should have stayed home. But like, imagine I stayed home. Or if I didn't accept that job.

[Ashley Hess]

Or the trip I was supposed to go on that I met Ashley on. I tried to cancel it, really. I just. I couldn't line the dates up because I had these two weddings in between this week. And I was like, if you guys can't make it these exact dates. It was like an influencer trip. I was like, I just can't come.

[Josie Balka]

Can you imagine?

[Raina Greenberg]

Change the date for.

[Josie Balka]

Right.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, you said, was it your radio co host that picked a picture for you? Yeah. So you were only going to go on one of the dates with the two app. And did you ever ask him why he chose that guy? It was just a vibe, I think he said.

[Josie Balka]

He. Like, he looked. He liked the way he looked.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, we did that with Bella, who was before Tessa. She had two guys on her hinge and picked one as well. And she dated him for years.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, really?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. See, that's crazy. I literally was just like, which one? I just screenshotted both profiles and he's like scrolling back and forth. I had also just met Michael, who's like, a week before. So we were all new friends and whatever. And then it actually ended up being really serendipitous too, because deep in the suburbs where we live, Michael lives one block away. So I ended up moving and seeing him every single day and living in his neighborhood. And he was like, great. Should I pick the other guy now? I'm with you all the time.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah, I can't escape you. That is.

[Ashley Hess]

Oh, you know, it was Ashley and I, if we'd met you today and you were like, should I go out with Drew or Steve? We would have said, not Steve, not Steve. Because in America. In America, Steve's a real problem.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's a name thing. It's like, trust no Steve. Trust no Chris. Like, we would have gone with Drew.

[Ashley Hess]

We would have gone with Drew, but.

[Raina Greenberg]

Not if we saw. We could have seen the photos and changed our minds.

[Ashley Hess]

But also, you guys are Canadian. It's different in America. It's a problem.

[Josie Balka]

And he's Steven with a ph oh, and I really led, like, like, went into that because I love Taylor Swift and she has a song called hey Steven. So I, like, also is leaning into that.

[Raina Greenberg]

But we love a Steven with a ph. He's better. Yeah, for sure. We approve. Way better. And I just want to wrap up with the book and. Did you have any feelings imposter syndrome? Like, writing a poetry book?

[Ashley Hess]

Like, I had to talk her out of it on our call.

[Josie Balka]

I was like, maybe. I was like, you ever have other nobodies on your podcast? She's like, what? But I. I. Yeah, like, for sure. I think, like, I don't know if you guys believe in manifesting and stuff. I.

[Ashley Hess]

We live in la.

[Josie Balka]

Okay. Yeah, true.

[Ashley Hess]

You have to.

[Josie Balka]

You can't live here. I don't. But this kind of made me be like, oh, I guess maybe that does work. But I had compiled all my poetry into, like, a book form just to see what it would look like. And then, like, the next day, got an email from an agent that found me on TikTok. And her name's Kelly. She's the best, and she's my literary agent. And she hooked me up with Simon Element, where my book's coming out. So I. And I actually almost didn't take her call because I was gonna self publish my fake little book that I made on Amazon, and she was like, just give me five minutes. And that's another one of those serendipitous things. But, yeah, writing this book gave me complete imposter syndrome. I recently went in to record the audiobook in, like, a studio in town where I live, and I was just like, reading it, being like, this is mine. And also you're overthinking everything that's in there. So I was like, hopefully this was the right one to put in. Or like, I wish I'd rearranged these two words or like, whatever. But, yeah, 100. And I talk all the time to my friends about, like, what if everyone hates it? But I think that's everybody.

[Raina Greenberg]

Everyone's gonna love it.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah, I hope so.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, so I don't have all your content in the book and your. Your TikTok memorized, but is there a crossover or is this all fresh?

[Josie Balka]

It's like 60, 40. Okay, so like 60 new. Okay, 40.

[Raina Greenberg]

So people will recognize some stuff from which I think is great.

[Josie Balka]

I clipped out, like, or picked my, like, favorite ones and then put in some brand new ones that nobody's ever seen before. It's like a quick read because it's like poetry, but I Seen some people who have gotten an advanced copy talk about how they like to read it slow. I used to love this poetry book by Shel Silverstein when I was little called Hauling Up. I don't know if you've heard of him.

[Ashley Hess]

Shel Silverstein wrote the Giving Tree.

[Josie Balka]

Yes.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, so much.

[Josie Balka]

And I used to love just opening up to one random page when I was a kid and just reading it and getting sad about it and then closing it and going to bed.

[Raina Greenberg]

Well, that's just whatever you're feeling.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

It's in, what, loving, longing and living.

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. Like three chapters.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Ashley Hess]

There's just really good thought starters. I mean, I listen to you speak and it just. It makes me think about my own relationships, mistakes I've made, things I want to change, things I'm really proud of. And, like, I think it's nice to just read a thing, marinate on it, write your own journal entry, you know?

[Josie Balka]

Yeah. Thank you for saying that.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay. Okay, so a final question.

[Josie Balka]

Do you have a favorite, favorite poem.

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

In this book?

[Raina Greenberg]

Yeah.

[Josie Balka]

Oh, God.

[Raina Greenberg]

Or top five? Favorite?

[Ashley Hess]

Top five.

[Raina Greenberg]

I have to answer, but is there a few or even a few that just you're, like, extra proud of or you feel the strongest about?

[Josie Balka]

I love the sad ones. Like, those are my favorite. I love the ones that I've written about, like Steve, my fiance, because I love him and stuff. So, like, I'm happy to have been able to put some of that in there, but I love the ones that are sad. And there's one that I was super proud of. And it's like, I go back to your chapter all the time. I read it again and again. Only thing that stays consistent is that it ends. And it's basically just like how many times you can go through the same story in your head, revamp it with your friends, even telling your new partner about something that happened, you with another partner. And every single time, you're, like, finding ways to put new notes in the margins of the story. Being like, but what if this. And even if it doesn't really matter, it's not really a choice. You're just going to keep opening it again. I really love that one.

[Raina Greenberg]

I love that.

[Josie Balka]

And then I really love the one that like, kind of launched me out there to everybody. The public pool one that we talked about off the top just solely because it gave me such a cool opportunity. And I loved watching people's videos that they made to it and, like, seeing so many bodies that look like my body and, like, so many women like, being Like, I'm actually gonna post this for the first time and like, show the way that I look and all this stuff and just feel proud of it instead. For the first time.

[Ashley Hess]

Time.

[Josie Balka]

And I just thought that that was the coolest thing ever. And it also, like, selfishly just gave me a lot of really cool opportunities.

[Ashley Hess]

When I'm scrolling and I get served your voice stitched over, like people suits and it just, it really like, makes me cry.

[Josie Balka]

It really, really me up when people do, like, I have a couple poems about dogs and they'll put like pictures, like videos of their dogs that passed.

[Raina Greenberg]

Away and I couldn't even look. No, absolutely.

[Josie Balka]

Sometimes I have to like, I'll be. I'll come back and like favorite it.

[Ashley Hess]

But yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh my gosh. While you guys get ready for this book, read it with a pen, make notes of the margins, take breaks if you need to. I don't know, it just really got to me emotionally. It's wonderful. So, you know, you're the voice of a generation.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm excited you're here. I've just. I discovered you last summer and I just was like, I know Ashley was gonna love you so much.

[Josie Balka]

I'm honestly so grateful to be able to sit here and chat with you guys. I know everybody probably says that, but like, this is so fucking cool. I think you guys are so awesome and I just like love that I was able to come here and chat with you. And also selfishly for the guys to come to see la, because I've never. So that was cool.

[Raina Greenberg]

Oh, this is your first time in la?

[Josie Balka]

Yeah.

[Raina Greenberg]

If you need any racks, we'll hit you after.

[Josie Balka]

Well, I'm going to the airport after this, but next time, okay?

[Raina Greenberg]

The airport's great now.

[Ashley Hess]

I'm gonna send her down. I have a Kinney before. But your book, I hope you remember, is out for pre order today. I think it's out tomorrow. Tomorrow if you guys are listening. But get it. And also just anywhere else people can find you. Tell people your Instagram and anything else.

[Josie Balka]

You want just at Josie Balka, the way it's spelled on whatever you're listening to this on on all platforms.

[Raina Greenberg]

Okay, great. Instagram and Tick Tock and you guys know where to find us. Girls Gotta eat dot com. I am Ash Hess. Raina is Raina Dot Greenberg. Girls Gotta Eat podcast on Instagram and TikTok. Subscribe on YouTube, share this episode with a friend, get Josie's book and we will see you Thursday.

[Ashley Hess]

Have a great week, guys. Brian at the Cry.