Why is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?

Summary

Girls Gotta Eat — “Why is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?” Podcast: Girls Gotta Eat (Dear Media)
Episode Date: November 24, 2025
Hosts: Ashley Hesseltine (A), Rayna Greenberg (B)

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Overview

In this episode—recorded during Thanksgiving week—Ashley and Rayna dig into a viral British Vogue opinion piece titled "Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?" by Shantae Joseph. They dissect the cultural shift around dating, public perceptions of relationships, and why so many women feel less inclined to flaunt their partners online. With their signature blend of humor and hard-hitting social commentary, the co-hosts reflect on how dating norms have evolved, the impact on women’s identities, and the new status of singlehood. They also field personal updates, discuss prenups, and, in true GGE fashion, close with a rundown of pop culture's most embarrassing fictional boyfriends.

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Episode Structure & Key Themes

Thanksgiving Updates & Personal Catch-Up (00:33–08:00)

• The hosts share Thanksgiving plans and travel (Ashley to London/Paris, Rayna to Pittsburgh).
• Discussion of recent projects, including their most intensive episode (“the documentary”) and appreciation for their audience.
• Mention of “Vibes Only”—their sexual wellness brand—and upcoming sales (notable for the recurring tongue-in-cheek line: “We want you guys to go fuck yourselves.” [06:01]).
• Rayna details her foray into solo standup comedy: “I got my heart pretty shattered at the end of last year…I just started writing about it, and I really enjoyed it…I think I have some really solid comedy hour content.” [08:41]

The Prenup Journey & Marriage Realities (22:37–38:52)

• Ashley details why she and her husband chose to sign a prenup, the administrative and emotional realities of marriage, and the case for modernizing prenups.
• She endorses “Hello Prenup,” a tech-forward, cost-effective solution:
  “Their flat one time fee is $599 per couple…with the full package in the $2,000 range rather than $8,000+ via traditional attorneys.” [35:25]
• Points raised: community property laws, why some couples might reconsider marriage, the need for more open conflict style in relationships, and the importance of acknowledging debts and finances pre-marriage.
• Ashley re-centers the conversation: “Marriage in general is just not sexy. It’s paperwork, it’s government paperwork.” [38:54]

Spotlight Segment: “Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?” (43:18–1:06:53)

Article Read & Initial Impressions

• Rayna and Ashley read/discuss Shantae Joseph’s British Vogue article, highlighting:
  • The shift from “boyfriend land” (women’s identities revolving around partners) to intentional decentering of men online.
  • The emergence of singlehood as a flex and the increased scrutiny (and even cringe) surrounding “boyfriend content” on social.
  • Quotes:
    • “If someone so much as says ‘my boy’ on social media, they’re muted.” [45:08, Author/Speaker: Shantae Joseph]
    • “Why does a boyfriend feel Republican?” [45:47, reader comment highlighted in article]
    • “Being partnered doesn’t affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered an achievement. It’s more of a flex to pronounce yourself single.” [46:15]
• The article’s viral impact, striking a nerve for questioning “the end goal” of womanhood and the status attached to being coupled.

Reflections and Cultural Analysis

• Hosts note a massive change in listener emails—now far more about single happiness and leaving unfulfilling relationships.
• Rayna: “Making your entire personality and identity about another person who might not even be worthy of it, that’s what’s embarrassing.” [50:19]
• Ashley on marriage now: “Women don’t need men anymore. Hot take.” [50:24]
• Discussion of “embarrassing” relationships, with Ashley emphasizing how women are waking up to not needing the traditional pathway:
  “If marriage benefited women, they would have taken it away from us by now.” [50:51]
• Both highlight single women’s newfound status, but stress the importance of not simply inverting societal shame: “What’s embarrassing is letting a man become your whole life and abandoning your friendships…” [53:45]

Social Media & Relationship Portrayal

• The hosts unpack Instagram “soft launches,” the decline of influencer couple content, and the evolving nature of public/private relationships.
• Ashley: “We just need to stop policing women—whether you choose to make a partner a big part of your world publicly or not, I support both.” [56:32]
• Both agree: consistent critique and “policing” of women’s choices is the real problem.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Rayna on the new landscape: “I have never been more single than I am today…I feel more comfortable in my single time and happier than I ever have.” [55:03]
• Ashley recounts seeing TikToks of men speaking out against other men’s bad behavior: “Women are out here saying we're embarrassing. Men are behaving badly. We got to do better.” [62:26]
• Both stress: You should not stay in relationships that make your life worse just to avoid “being single.”

Recapping the Pop Culture Discourse: Most Embarrassing Fictional Boyfriends (70:37–78:55)

• In response to Vogue’s “13 Most Embarrassing Boyfriends in Pop Culture”:
  • Top “embarrassing” boyfriend: Mr. Big from Sex and the City.
    Rayna: “There’s nothing more embarrassing. And I love that we as a society…realizing what a toxic dumpster fire that was.” [71:25]
  • Runners up include Berger, Alexander Petrovsky, Trey McDougal, Warner from Legally Blonde, Ross Geller (Friends), Adam from Girls, and even Disney picks (Prince Eric, The Beast).
  • Ashley: “These worst boyfriends, to me, are not the outright assholes. They are the guys we were supposed to think were decent guys, and now the wool has been pulled back...” [75:00]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Thanksgiving, Updates & Stand-up journey | 00:33–13:45 | | Ashley’s prenup experience | 22:37–38:52 | | Main Theme: Embarrassing Boyfriend Article | 43:18–1:06:53 | | Pop Culture Boyfriends Discourse | 70:37–78:55 |

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Memorable Quotes

• On Standup & Audience:
  “Nothing makes me feel less scared than being in front of our audience.” — Rayna, [12:21]
• On Prenups:
  “You should be able to sign a thing that says, ‘I'm fucking leaving with what I came with.’” — Rayna, [31:54]
• On the Article’s Core Question:
  “Being partnered doesn’t affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered an achievement.” — Ashley, summarizing the article, [46:15]
• On Societal Shift:
  “Women don’t need men anymore. Hot take.” — Ashley, [50:24]
• On Avoiding Bad Relationships:
  “What’s embarrassing is being with someone who makes your life worse...just so you’re not single.” — Ashley, [53:45]
• On Social Pressure:
  “We just need to stop policing women. Whether you choose to make a partner a big part of your world publicly or you choose to decenter them, I support both.” — Ashley, [56:32]
• On the Wedding:
  “It was nice to see that at the wedding…there were single people there looking hot, living their best life.” — Ashley, [66:53]
• On Internet Critiques:
  “Let’s bring reading comprehension back. Yeah, let’s make reading great again.” — Rayna, [69:59]

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Overall Tone

The episode is comedic, candid, and empowering, mixing cultural criticism with classic Girls Gotta Eat banter. Ashley and Rayna balance hyper-relatable humor (“We want you guys to go fuck yourselves…so go stuff yourselves” [06:01]) with genuine reflections on relationships, identity, and societal standards. They’re never afraid of self-deprecation, and their insights will resonate with listeners regardless of their relationship status.

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For Listeners

This episode sharply encapsulates ongoing debates about gender, relationships, and online representation—delivered with the signature warmth and irreverence that has defined Girls Gotta Eat since 2018. Whether you’re coupled, single, or simply fascinated by shifting cultural norms, this one is essential listening (and laughing).

Transcript

[A]

So today we're talking about if having a boyfriend is embarrassing and neither of us have them, so we are not embarrassing. Killing it.

[B]

This podcast is a Dear Media production.

[A]

Hi, guys.

[B]

Hi, guys.

[A]

Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta eat.

[B]

Welcome back.

[A]

Happy Thanksgiving week.

[B]

It's happening.

[A]

It's our favorite holiday.

[B]

You haven't brought it up.

[A]

Didn't I bring. I brought it up last week.

[B]

You did not. We had a lot to talk about last week. Okay. We did a documentary last week.

[A]

Oh, at the end of next week's episode, I bring it up.

[B]

Okay. Yes. Don't get ahead of yourself. And probably the beginning of next week's episode, you'll bring it up. Definitely. And every episode after. Yeah, it is. It's Thanksgiving week.

[A]

It's just my favorite holiday food. I'm so excited. We have fun holiday plans. I'm just. I'm very excited.

[B]

What are you doing?

[A]

I'm going to London. Okay. I'm going to London to see the baby. I'm so excited. It was just his first birthday so I haven't bought him anything, but I probably will. I might go to Paris for the night. I'm not getting good weather this year. Last year I had amazing weather, but I'm just really excited. It's a long ass trip, but I'm excited.

[B]

A few people are in Paris right now. Who's in there? Well, Jeremy.

[A]

Jeremy.

[B]

But I think someone else. I just. I am dying to go to Paris for Christmas.

[A]

Like you want to come now?

[B]

I also have a child's birthday as we record. I will be in Delaware, but I'm leaving like the Saturday before Thanksgiving. Push my flight up a day because Matt decided to do the both boys birthdays. They're close and their birthdays and they obviously could celebrate on the actual day. But the joint. They do joint birthdays now. I can't because everybody wants to come.

[A]

And bring gifts or whatever until they can remember stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Jay is locked in.

[A]

She is. He's so smart. It's crazy.

[B]

So the birthday will be the Sunday before Thanksgiving. Like a joint party for both of them. So I had to make it for that. And then I'll be with my family through the week, through Thanksgiving Day. And then Friday I'm going to go to Boston and be with Shashank. I feel so free. I feel so free.

[A]

It has been so. It's been. It's been a real mouthful the last year. Your fiance. It's a mental gymnastics.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It's been a lot. And you pause every time you do it. It's really nice.

[B]

Poor Anna, she's like, what are we doing this week?

[A]

You're going to be with your in laws.

[B]

Yes. So. And they're going to hold Thanksgiving a day for me, which is what we did for him last year. And so Friday and then we'll be there for the weekend. And I haven't been to Boston with the exception of the last show on my tour. And I really miss it. We're going to stay in Seaport and I just miss being in Boston. I loved it so much. I spent so much time there.

[A]

I know. I love it too. When I just winter. Just winter in general.

[B]

I miss like. Yes, exactly. Being on the east coast for winter. So see you guys around these parts.

[A]

I'm going to be those parts too. I'm going to Pittsburgh.

[B]

Oh, right. Had to one up me after London and Paris. She's like, by the way.

[A]

Oh, you got, you got Boston.

[B]

I got, I got.

[A]

Well, I just. My dad is not coming to London this year for Thanksgiving and I just. My parents are getting older and I want to like take time to be with them and listen, I would rather spend more time in Paris, but I am going to fly back. We're going to go to a Steelers game. They're playing the Buffalo Bills. So I'm just like very excited. And then we'll meet back here to keep recording the podcast.

[B]

Yeah, I am. I'm really thankful, you know, And I did just want to say we recorded.

[A]

This episode last week, recorded a documentary last week.

[B]

We dropped it last week. It was the most work. It's the longest episode we've had in years. I think one time, Matthew Hussey episode was a couple hours.

[A]

Andrew Huberman. We couldn't get that guy to shut up. That guy was like, I'm not gonna let you interrupt me.

[B]

Andrew Huberman was like, is this not Joe Rogan's three hour block? And Anna, our editor, put so much time into it. There's these assets and videos. We did a couple pickups and I just was so perfectionist and so neurotic about it. It was something so important to me and I wanted to get everything in. And of course I didn't get this in and that in. But I just wanted to also thank our audience for all the support and the love and nothing but incredible comments. At least that I'll ever see front facing. I'm not in the back end of the Internet looking at what people are saying. I would never. Those don't reach me. Just so you know, and keep trying along the way, I think that was the one thing I left out is I always want to thank our audience just for their love and support. And we talked about this and we'll talk about a new venture. Venture.

[A]

We'll talk about it.

[B]

A thing you got going on and you were just. We were talking about how it will be received. And I'm like, people love us. Like some don't. And you know, the people, like, what do they say? Your biggest fans or your biggest haters, whatever, those. That's not what we're talking about. People want the best for us. They want to see us happy and thriving and in love or succeeding at something. And so again, just thank you guys always for the support. We're. We're really thankful and we thank you every year around this time. And just I want to drive it home.

[A]

Well, thank you for you guys and thank you to you. And this has been. We'll talk about it more at the Christmas episode. We do like big year roundup and we do resolutions for next year. But yeah, this has been like a really great year. Mostly for you.

[B]

Well, it's been.

[A]

I've had a great year, too. Shit show of a year in like.

[B]

The state of the world. But yeah, it's been a lot. And 2026 is going to be right as you. But listen, we're not going to get ahead of ourselves.

[A]

We all stop cooking for 2026.

[B]

Let her cook.

[A]

Doing big things. You're going to come.

[B]

All right.

[A]

We're going to thank our partners. We're going to get into it. Thank you to Lola Blankets. Get 40% off your entire order at Lola Blankets.com with code GGE and Rocket Money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals [e-mail] GGE and thank you to Bill.

[B]

Get points by paying [e-mail] GGE and thank you to Saks Avenue. Make shopping easier this season at Saks Fifth Avenue [e-mail].

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

A few announcements. Yeah.

[A]

So our biggest sale of the year for vibes only. Our sexual wellness business is this year. Is this week.

[B]

Leave it. Our biggest sale of the year. It's this year, guys.

[A]

This year. You guys, you can't even believe it. We want you guys to go fuck yourselves. And yes, go fuck yourselves. We have an amazing line of vibrators, couples toys, things that you can use solo. We have handcuffs. We have lube. We have so many fun things on the site. So our biggest sale of the year is this year. And email subscribers get early access. So if you go to vibesonly.com, all you have to do is sign up for the email list. There'll be a pop up and that'll get you two days early access to our biggest sale of the year. And then we'll continue to sale throughout the weekend. So vibesonly.com get your stocking stuffers. Stuff yourself. Get stuff for your friends. White elephant. All the things.

[B]

The pillow. Get that pillow. And you know what? I was looking last night at some of our products and I like our holiday theme. I like the green pillow, which was also my wedding color. Green velvet with the burgundy scarlet. That's my pairing, if you guys want to know.

[A]

Do we know? We don't sell that as a bundle, but I like it. I like.

[B]

Yeah, maybe we should. Yeah. Red and green.

[A]

Yeah. So suction toys. The is the Scarlet, our new mini suction toy. And the sex pillow.

[B]

Just elevate your sex patty blow gel is back. Yeah. My personal favorite.

[A]

Yes. Our best sellers, the Peppermint Patty and the sugar free blow Gel. So you can up your BJ game.

[B]

I think I might try to have that be more my sweet treat because I'm trying to cut back a little bit on desserts.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And so that'll just suck dick instead.

[A]

Oh, that's so nice. Now that you're married, you can blow jobs. You don't have to do that anymore.

[B]

That's why I start my blowjob era in marriage. You gotta do something. We had sex on the couch last this weekend. Oh, my God. It was pretty hot.

[A]

Which part of it? So I don't sit there.

[B]

I know, I know. He's like, poor is old. I had some margaritas. We were out with some friends and we came home and just got couch. We haven't on the couch in a long time.

[A]

Yeah, couch sex is great. Now you guys are married. You just everywhere, people. Our audience did say that getting married.

[B]

Made them hornier, 100%. We talked about on the podcast. And then I would even ask at my shows, I would talk to married couples in the audience and they really reiterated they weren't just doing it for the bit. They were like, yeah, it's hot to be locked down by the government. Hot to be married. Okay. Do you want to talk?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's been going on with you?

[A]

So, you know, a lot of people messaged me and I was posting a lot when I was in New York last week about doing shows at this comedy club in New York, which is like your longtime club, the Stand. And I was doing shows. I collabed up post with them, and a lot of our audience came and they were so supportive and wonderful. So thank you guys if you came. But on the post that I collabed, I got a lot of people being like, wait, are you doing standup yet? And what is this? And is this a big announcement? You guys were just like, so wonderful.

[B]

So it was a little bit of a jump scare.

[A]

Yeah. Without explaining it.

[B]

Not teased anything. All of a sudden, here she is.

[A]

Everybody, every night of the week. Every night of the week. So I did that. Cause the club asked me to promote it. And obviously I would never do anything in my life ever without explaining it to you guys. But the club was like, please promote this. Put ticket sales up. So I was like, great. So, I mean, obviously you've been on tour all year and I haven't, and I'm so inspired by what you've done. And, you know, I miss our audience and I miss seeing them at shows. And I just started writing my musings about dating in general. And, you know, I just. I got my heart pretty shattered at the end of last year, and I was really depressed, and it was probably one of the lowest times in my life. And I spent the year just dating and going on matchmaker dates and trying to date other friends of ours and calling up exes from the past and all kinds of stuff. And I just. I started writing about it, and I really enjoyed it. I tried to date this girl. I just. I just started writing about it, and I was like, I think I have some really solid comedy hour content. And I was just like, you know, I want to see how this feels. I want to see how it feels to get on a stage by myself without all the stuff. You know, I've been a performer for so many years. I performed with you for seven years. Hundreds of shows for thousands of people, probably a million people. And I always thought, like, without all of that, without the dancers and the strippers and the cryo and the T shirt guns and you and all of that, like, what does it feel like? Just me and a mic. And it just. It felt really good and it felt comfortable. And I have so many people around me that I can look up to that are amazing performers and so many good friends and people that have been supportive and given me great advice, like you, of course. And I've loved watching you just get better and better and better every year and succeed. And it just felt really nice. It felt good. And I'm excited to do something with the hour, which I'll be announcing soon. So I'm very excited for 2026 and what I'm gonna be doing. And it was just. It was nice even to perform for not just our audience. Probably like 20% of the audience was our audience. And just make people laugh and talk about things. Just about current dating culture and really bad behavior these days and make light of it. And I had, like, a pretty disappointing situation with a friend that I slept with. And to write about it and get on and perform and just make fun of it felt so good. And so it's just. It's exciting and I loved it. And thank you, guys. If you came out, I'm gonna do more of it in December, and then I'll make an announcement about some stuff. You look like you wanna say something.

[B]

Say something. No, I just. I am really proud of you. You have always been on stage and telling stories and making people laugh and writing out sets and jokes and doing comedy in that way and, you know, workshopping stuff and punching it up and taking it seriously. And you went out with me on my tour and did a couple. You never appeared to be, like, nervous, you know, I'm sure that you were, but you never really let on. It was just like, this is what I do. I've been doing this. And you're such a natural and crowd work. Like, you said something to me the other day that you are crowd working so funny. Like, I was like, oh, you've never asked that at our shows. And it was, like, so funny. Like, the way you engage an audience and you're really great at it. And I think anyone who's ever been to a show knows that. So it seems natural. And, you know, we talk a lot about what a standup comedian or just a solo performer's journey looks like. And, you know, your path has been different, and you're gonna do this thing and you have people who love you and want to come see you. And I think you're trying to strike the balance of, like, how much is, like, you gotta know, the girls gotta eat lore, or can you perform for people coming off the street? And I think that funny is funny, and you're funny and relatable, and I'm excited to see more of it. I've only seen a little bit and for everyone else to see it too.

[A]

Well, thanks for saying that. It means a lot. And I think people are like, I didn't know you were doing standup. It's like, well, I'm not. I've never considered myself A stand up like you. It's not the same thing. I haven't like you gone out and grinded it out five nights a week, you know, and doing all these sets. But I am a performer and I've written so much and nothing makes me feel less scared than being in front of our audience. Like, I know the hard part is now. I know the hard part is practicing this and being in front of audiences that I don't know. And I feel emotional thinking the easiest thing in the world is standing up in front of our audience. Cause they're just, they're so loving and wonderful and they just wanna hype you and show up and post about you. And I walked outta one of the shows the other night and this girl was waiting for me. She was like, raina, I love the set. Can I just punch one joke up for you? Oh, and she gave me a really funny tag. I love that she waited for me outside to punch it. And I was just like, that's. That will be the easiest thing in the world is our audience.

[B]

I try to think if that's ever happened to me. I always love when people, you get off stage and someone's like, can I give you a tag? And it's like, I'm like, yeah, you can. And sometimes I'm like, brilliant. It's in. And other times I'm like, I'm offended.

[A]

I'm offended.

[B]

You thought I would say those words.

[A]

There's this security guard. There's like a hot security guard. He was like big and bald and he was like looking at her. And I thanked her and he like watched the interaction. He was like, you're just like, cool with that. And I was like, yeah, I'm very cool with it. That was very funny.

[B]

I watched comedy and I'm like screaming, like, why would you not say this thing? That feels so obvious. Like, there's a thing in my set and it'll be in the special that I can't believe I missed. And we were in Denver and Andrew Collins was like, how do you not say this thing? I would have put money on that line coming next. And I was like, you're right. It's going in next 10 minutes. Show two.

[A]

You know, I don't want to. I don't want to know it from everybody, but like, I do think that some open invit. Yeah, don't DM us. But it is really flattering when you get off stage and somebody who knows comedy is like, that was great, but this can be better. And you're like, that's mine now.

[B]

Yeah, but it depends. It does depend.

[A]

If it's you or Andrew Collin or that girl.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Very few men I want it from.

[A]

Yeah, just Andrew.

[B]

Well, you guys watch this space.

[A]

Stay tuned. I'm very excited. Thank you guys for your support. And we'll keep you abreast of this developing situation.

[B]

And, you know, if anything happens and Raina kicks off anything, I'll be there. I'll just kick it off to kick it off.

[A]

Not the whole time.

[B]

Cause she's got other people to do that.

[A]

It's gonna be so good. He's gonna be there also for, you know, if we kick it off.

[B]

It's not intracollen.

[A]

No, I just. It's somebody that you can sleep with.

[B]

Can.

[A]

Yeah. Reyna, I'm not gonna.

[B]

I can't. Okay. They can.

[A]

They can.

[B]

You guys, can you.

[A]

Not the plural. Not me.

[B]

Not you.

[A]

Like in general. Me. Other people.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Anyways, watch this face.

[B]

Watch this face.

[A]

All right, well, just a little reminder, we will not have the snack this week, but we hope you guys have just the best Thanksgiving. Please, dear God, tag me in all of your beige plates. I don't think Ashley cares as much as I do, but you could tag her a little.

[B]

Well, Raina likes a plate of beige carbs if you're new around here. It's one of her catchphrases since 2018. It's her king. I like a colorful plate, and I like fresh cranberries. So if you are more Reina's friends and you like the canned cranberry with the ridge on it, ribbed for Reina's pleasure, or the fresh cranberries. And every once in a while, we'll get a plate with both.

[A]

I like some color. I like a little cranberry to color it up. If there's a green bean on there, that. If there's a fresh green bean. A vibrant green green bean. Get out of here.

[B]

Well, guess what I get to have.

[A]

What are you having? Thanksgiving. What do they do?

[B]

They do a mix. Last year, he sent a plate, I think.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I will get two. I'll get mine, and then I'll get Indian. They do some traditional stuff, but it's a. It's a nice mix. That's a hot plate.

[A]

You are lucky. Yeah. I love Indiana so much. It's just like, really? I mean, some of it is just hot and mushy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not all of it. I'm not trying to insult Indian cuisine. It's incredibly complex. I'm not comparing it to Creamy casserole. But it's totally. It's just comfort food. It's just a lot of hot stews.

[B]

Yeah. Hot and gushy. Okay. I think that's a lyric from Wap. I think about Wap a lot. I think about that. That's a song. I mean, like, how did this happen? Seriously?

[A]

Like, we.

[B]

We don't talk about it enough. That there was a song called what? Ass Pussy? And we just, like, went with that. This is. This is it. This is an anthem.

[A]

Well, the president is giving blowjobs to other presidents these days. Crazy times.

[B]

No, I was saying, like, what an iconic song. Like, we haven't had one, I guess. My neck, my back. And then there was just such a. So many years without another eight.

[A]

A Thong song.

[B]

No, not that. Doesn't compare. Is safe for children.

[A]

The Thong Song came on at your wedding?

[B]

No. No song has ever hit hard.

[A]

People hit the ground. People were going crazy.

[B]

So Caleb, my best guy friend from high school I mentioned he lives in Prague. And he came. We loved Cisco in high school. His solo album, obviously, when he was in Drew Hill. But then we loved his solo album. And so I was like, I'm not gonna pick a deep cut from the album because that won't get the crowd going. So I just went over to Mike and I was like, can you play.

[A]

Thong Song Crested in the moment.

[B]

Oh, yeah. And Mike was so quick with it, and he had the Thong Song on in seconds and the crowd went wild. I think people are coming up to me like, I've never seen the Thong song hit like that.

[A]

So anyway, people went crazy.

[B]

Seriously. Okay, so I am going to tell you guys about Bilt. By now, you have probably heard of it. You can earn points on your monthly rent payment, but did you know they also make it possible for you to get more outside of your home too? By paying rent through bill, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed towards hundreds of hotels and airlines. A future rent payment or your next Lyft ride, ride and more. But it doesn't stop there. Built is about making your entire neighborhood more rewarding. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios, and enjoy exclusive experiences just for Built members every month. Built is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you, and we love this so much. And we've been talking about Built for years, and I feel like we've really seen it blow up become more of a household name. Our episode with Brian Kelly, the points guy, he talked about it and just how cool it is and what they're doing and how you really can use those built rewards for again, things like all around your neighborhood. I'm always seeing the little built sign at my fitness studios and everything. So we just think it's incredible. You guys can earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home by going to joinbuilt.com GGE that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com GGE make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you.

[A]

Okay. It is gifting season. It's cold season. It's stay at home, don't have social plans, be cozy season. I'm gonna put you on to the best product. That's LOL blankets. So Lola is the world's number one blanket. It's crafted with ultra soft luxury vegan faux fur and a signature four way stretch that sets it apart. I love these blankets so much. Ashley and I just, they, they look so beautiful draped on your bed or on your couch. They're so cozy and warm. Oh my God. I literally was at the house for three days in a row this weekend and all I did was just sit under the blanket. It's so comfy. And it is machine washable. It's really durable. I know.

[B]

I'm trying to take my blanket to the dry cleaner.

[A]

I did be getting some stuff on it this weekend. So.

[B]

Food. What'd you do this weekend? I don't even know. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. When are we gonna talk about it after this?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I didn't wanna tell you about this weekend.

[B]

Yeah, well, finish the blanket ad and let's talk about it.

[A]

So it is machine washable. It's really durable. It is so soft. It's like being enveloped in luxury. They have a bunch of different colors and sizes and this is really good for gifting. So it really is like a go to gift. I feel like if you really don't know what to get somebody, this is it. It's just luxurious. It, um. Lola has over 10,000 five star reviews. There is a reason why it's called the world's number one blanket. There's a large and xl. I have the xl. They also make weighted blankets and matching pillows. So give the gift of softness this holiday season with Lola blankets. For a limited time. Our listeners are getting a huge 40% off their entire order at lolablankets.com by using the code GGE at checkout. Just head to lolablankets.com and use the code GGE for 40% off. And after your purchase they will ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

[B]

It's such a good gift. A blanket is always a great gift.

[A]

I got your brother and sister in law blankets a couple years ago for Christmas. It's just everybody wants it.

[B]

I know. Okay. What did you do this weekend?

[A]

I had the best three days of my life.

[B]

What?

[A]

I never left the house. It was the best three days of my entire life. I got a haircut.

[B]

Why? You wanted to get out?

[A]

Nah.

[B]

Why you keep going to New York?

[A]

I've been out.

[B]

You go to New York every weekend.

[A]

This is one of the best weekends of my life. And it was like stark opposite of your wedding, which was also one of the best weekends of my life.

[B]

So you just need to relax.

[A]

I did your wedding which was, I mean just so much socializing, so much like running around and activities. And I went straight to New York and I was out every night. I did, I did sets at the stand every night. And I got back here and I landed. We recorded three days in a row.

[B]

Okay, so this is like your first weekend to totally relax and do nothing. Yeah.

[A]

So it was a month soon in la. You couldn't leave the house. It was crazy. I did not leave the house except for to get my haircut.

[B]

I.

[A]

And I don't think I've ever stayed in bed like this. I wasn't drinking, I wasn't hungover. I wasn't sick. I was just like, like super clear. I got work done. I watched every show on television. I cooked. I literally, I stayed in the bed the whole day. I'm trying. Never got out of bed.

[B]

Okay. And it, the weather was so perfect for it.

[A]

Just. That was like crazy rain. Yeah, you did leave the house a little.

[B]

We did. I just had to get out. So we stayed in Friday night, Saturday all day. It was like raining. I was like, I gotta get outta the house. So we went and got margaritas with Taylor and Blake and just we drank a lot.

[A]

You can't not drink a lot.

[B]

Like though we just. I love hanging out with them. And Taylor and I like, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. And they get to jump in every once in a while and just. They were just crushing beers. I mean Shashank and Blake go like beer for beer, you know, and you know you're. We're having so Much fun. And you are, like, looking like, are.

[A]

You gonna order another one?

[B]

Are you gonna order another one? And then you're. Then you get to a point where you're like, we'll share.

[A]

They'll stay out until 5 in the morning. Yeah. If you let them.

[B]

Yeah. So it's fun.

[A]

Yeah. So I don't know. I haven't had a weekend like that. I did not do anything. I didn't see anybody. I consumed a level of television I've never consumed before. Okay. But you see how it was.

[B]

Great. Okay, so I want to talk about my prenup. This would be, like, a longer conversation. And Rayna obviously contribute. And we talked about prenups in the podcast we had on Laura Wasser, who is the number one divorce attorney in the country. She did Kim Kardashian's divorce, and we had Jason Tardick, who discussed it a little bit too. And we did do one. And I had a wonderful experience. I'm so excited to tell you guys about it. I thought I would kind of start with my feelings about marriage in general, just to catch anyone up who's new here, because I think how you feel about marriage is tied into the prenup and the process. And I like to run the tape on, like, the very first episode of this podcast in 2018. I was like, this is the year I'm gonna get engaged. Lol.

[A]

So, you know what's so crazy to think is, like, what the future of the podcast would have looked like. We didn't have any options, but, like, if one of us was married from, like, day one, I mean, this was like, this, like, really, like, female empowerment, having a boyfriend is embarrassing podcast.

[B]

Yeah, it really has been. And until I met my now husband and started dating him in 2023, I was not partnered the whole history of the podcast. Raina had a boyfriend era, and we've dated a ton, and we've shared those stories, but, like, I didn't have a boyfriend. And so this is kind of why this conversation ties into the topic today too. And I was just like, I just want to be a single icon, and I want to live my best life. And, you know, I got married at 42, which is outside the norm. And as I got into my 30s, I remember career started taking off. I was like, I don't know if marriage is for me. I'm really trying to not say this exactly how I say it in my standup, but it is accurate in that I'm not gonna change my last name. I'm making my own Money and I don't want children. And I think it is so wonderful to be married and have a family and all share the same last name. My parents have been married, what, you know, 42 years.

[A]

42 years. And Shashank's parents will be 40 years this year.

[B]

Yeah. And both of us like our families, healthy, stable, long time marriage. Our parents is like part of who we are and what has molded us. And we look up to it and it's really important in our lives, but I just wasn't sure what it would benefit to me. Yeah. And I started dating him. And very early on, the day we made it official, which was July 8, 2023, the day before my 40th birthday, we had a conversation about kids and marriage. And he, he already knew I didn't want kids. And I was like, just to reiterate, I'm not having kids, so if you change your mind, you gotta tell me. And he was like, I. I don't want kids, but I do want to get married. It's important to me and I want that type of commitment in my life. And we talked about our parents and I was like, all right, I would get married. I think in that moment I was like, I think I'm gonna marry him. What? You know, like, I don't. I think, I think I was starting to feel like I loved him. And, you know, you told me before.

[A]

Your birthday, I think I'm falling in love with him. And I was like, what? I literally remember kind of saying in Cabo, and I remember coming over to your house before we went to that birthday trip, and you're like, I'm in love with him. And I was like, what?

[B]

He was in love with me too?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We weren't even officially.

[A]

He was in love with you before you guys even met.

[B]

He had been in love with me. That's so fair. So I was excited, obviously, to fall in love with him, to get engaged and to marry him. And there was never anything in the back of my head, like, I don't really want to, like, wholeheartedly I want to marry this man. I'm going to spend my life with him. I want to be committed to him. And we always knew a prenup was going to be on the table. For me, it doesn't matter if I'm marrying somebody who makes more or less. I don't think that at this age, two adults coming together, that if I were to marry you and you have more money than me, I'm. The day we get married, I'm Entitled to half of that. And I wouldn't want that for me. You shouldn't want that for me. Someone coming in just because they marry me, they are entitled to part of girls gotta eat. Should we get divorced? And so I always had felt like that. And he knew I felt like that too. And, you know, I think a lot of people think that's what marriage is about. You come together, everything goes into the pot. You build a family together, you build your own careers together. You get married when you're younger.

[A]

It's also different when you're, you know, you're 23 and you're kids.

[B]

Yeah. And I respect whatever you want to do for your own marriage. That just wasn't me, and it wasn't him either. And so this summer, in August, I started the prenup journey, and I talked to our business manager, and he put me in touch with a lawyer, and he explained all the things. So California, every state is some version of legality, but California is a community property state. So you get married without a prenup, the state says everything you both have goes into the pot, and you're entitled to half of it. So even if you had it before. Yeah. Like day one of the marriage, everything's in the pot. Okay. And if we got divorced a month later, 20 years later, he's entitled to half of it. I'm entitled to half of his. And spousal support. So whoever makes more will give the other person spousal support, even if. Even though there's no kids involved. And neither of us would have wanted that, like, we're grown adults. He would. He would never think, Ashley and I are going to get divorced and she's.

[A]

Going to pay me.

[B]

We don't have children or vice versa. And so that was something we didn't want to. And I understand why the laws are like this. They're more so to protect women who may give up their careers to raise a family or even not raise a family, support their husband's career. Like I support the structure.

[A]

But talking about two adults that came into a marriage on equal footing. You both work, you're both capable, and you're not having children. It's a different scenario.

[B]

So we talk about all this and how both of us. I talked with a lawyer. We would do all the paperwork, do all the financial disclosures, have to submit all this stuff, and then we would both have to get lawyers. So I would have a lawyer, and he would have to get a lawyer. Especially if you are waiving spousal support. And it's like a bare minimum of, to do it that way of like $6,000, probably more like 8. Upwards of $10,000. The whole thing all together.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm thinking like we are paying $8,000, let's say, to just override the state's marriage laws. And this started to beg the question of what is the reason for us to get married. Because we're not having kids, we're not changing names. It's just this legal transaction that says now we're entitled to half of each other's money. And. And now we have to pay extra money to override that. Like, what does it mean? And it started to just get me down. This was right before my bachelorette. And I was just like, this is just like an added layer of stress and expenses to what should be this joyful time. I never thought this was gonna be romantic. You know, I think these conversations are very important and I think this is what it means to be a healthy couple, that you're on the same page and you know all these things about each other. I always knew it was gonna be unromantic, but I didn't really expect it to be so like, like stressful and causing like doubt about the whole journey in, in general. And he and I talked about it and like what marriage means to us and all these other things we have to, to deal with now with the prenup. And we both came to the conclusion that we want to be legally married and committed and we want to do it and we're going to do the prenup and whatever the extra work, the extra admin were, it's worth it to us. And that's when I was thinking to myself, like, there just has to be a better way. Like it's 2025. Someone has had to have figured this out, like a better, a cheaper way, like a more streamlined way to do this.

[A]

Eight to ten grand. I mean, that's more money than I would have ever had in my savings account in my 20s. It's more than most people have in their savings account. That's a really life changing amount of money for some people that you don't. You can't afford to do that.

[B]

Well, the thing is, is typically the person with more money pays all of that. They pay for their future spouse's lawyer fees too, which was not what we were gonna do. But anyway, so I start, start googling and I come across this service called hello Prenup. And I'm reading about them. They're totally legitimate. They've been on Shark Tank and it was started by these two women. And I see that Laura Wasser was an advisor and I'm like, say less. Laura's involved. And I'm like, this is what I've been looking for. This should be easier. We should be able to do some of this online and not have to go meet with a lawyer and pay all this money. And so I decided to email Laura. I was like, I'm email Laura and see what's up. And I was like, because what if I could work with them, learn more about the company, have a personal experience and also spread the word on girls. Gotta eat. I felt like so passionately about it immediately. And Laura responded. I was like, oh, you know, I have a girl crush on Laura. Who doesn't? Yeah. She took like two days to respond. Like two days. And she was like, I'm sorry, I've been in trial. I'm like, do not apologize.

[A]

She did Kim Kardashian's divorce. I mean, name a famous divorce in history. She did it. She's like, sorry, I've been in court. Who's getting divorced?

[B]

I was like, do not say sorry to me. I can't believe you responded to me honestly, I'm so glad you took the time. And so she was like, yes, let's do this. And so she put me in touch with Julia Rogers, who was the co founder and she is an attorney and she started with another woman who's a software engineer. And so I just feel so emotional about this because it was everything I was looking for and I had the best experience and it made me it so easy. And I was worried at first it was going to be like a turbo tax, which I tried once years ago and crashed out, you know, and this was just such an easy process and I didn't need anyone to help me along the way. But I just liked being in touch with Julia and learning about the company. But it's just, you sign up, you invite your partner, you both fill out all the forms. They're so easy to do. Like, every question you answer, it's a lot of yes or no and. And everything that might be the slightest bit confusing. There is like a video tutorial from an attorney on what this means.

[A]

Because when I started really hearing about the prenup from you, I was like, I always just was a little flippant about it. I was like, everybody should get a prenup. We talked to Laura years ago. She was like, you have a prenup, the state gives you a prenup. And I was like, everybody should just get a prenup. And I just thought, like, you should be able to sign a thing that says, like, I'm fucking leaving with what I came with. But, like, you really have to unearth every single dollar that you have made saved, and that's also coming to you. I didn't even think about inheritance. Like, all these things, like, what happens when we die and writing a will and all those things. Like, I never really thought, like, just how granular it was. I was a little flippant about it.

[B]

Well, I think that some people also might start the process and not do it. Like, I was always gonna do it. I felt committed to it. But there was that point when I was talking to the first attorney. Like, were we really doing this? I have to spend all this money, spend all this time. Like, I'm sure some people are like, yeah, we'll do a prenup. And then they start the process. They're like, fuck it. Let's hope for the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And of course, he and I, we have no plans to break up. Like, that's. That's the whole thing, too. And I love this whole narrative that's coming about that couples that discuss this stuff and have prenups actually break up less because they've had the conversations and they're realistic.

[A]

Well, it really speaks a lot to a couple's conflict style. Right? I mean, these are really uncomfortable conversations to have. Like, I really. I cannot stress enough how flippant I felt about it previously and how. How difficult these things are to discuss. Like, how much money is coming to.

[B]

You if your parents die, any debts, all that stuff, too.

[A]

All that stuff. I mean, to disclose that to somebody is really tough. And I think that it's never going to be a fun, easy conversation. Somebody's. You're always going to find out debts about. With somebody, you're always going to find out your partner makes more or less, et cetera. But if you can have those conversations, you are, like, really in a different.

[B]

League, but you really have to be on the same page. And of course, we share money. And, you know, if one of us really needed support from the other, like, that goes without saying. Like, we live together, we pay rent, we go travel. Like, we're not keeping tabs. You know, like, we have a good thing going. But in terms of what I've built and what I've built with you, when I built on my own and what he's got, like, that's. It's separate. And so to be you're reading this and you're like, this feels like kind of insensitive sometimes, like your answers. But we were aligned and, and we worked through it and so we filled out the paperwork online. It was super easy. And then you just put in all your financial stuff and then we each talked to our own lawyer. So I had an hour long conversation with the lawyer, he had an hour long conversation with another lawyer. We went over the prenup in full. And then you basically finalize it and then you have to wait seven days at least that's California law to notarize it. So there's a seven day waiting period. So the notarization was also very like high tech and cool. Like it was a virtual with a notary. We did this like the Friday before the wedding. That was the timeline. I was procrastinated a little bit. I was busy, you know, I was doing the tour. And so we kind of wait. We're down to the wire. But you just are on, you know, zoom call essentially with somebody and they walk you through it and just. Do you understand all this? You hit yes on a bunch of things, sign a bunch of papers quickly, like e sign initial 20 minutes to notarize it in full virtually with a notary, and then you're done. And I mean, you could do this, the prenup part in a couple hours if you had all your financial stuff locked and loaded. I just want to tell people, like, but we did it piece by piece over the course of, you know, a couple weeks. And their flat one time fee, because you guys are probably like, how much does this cost? The hello, prenup flat one time fee is 5.99 per couple.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

And they also offer E signature and notarization for $50 per couple. And then they have the option to add attorney services at any point. So there are Q and a sessions for $49 per and then attorney document review, whatever. Bottom line, the full thing with the lawyer is 699 per person. So that's crazy. $1,400. If you do the both lawyers, you don't always need that. We, we did that fourteen hundred dollars plus six hundred to two thousand dollars with all the bells and whistles. For the most part. You're in like a $2,000 range to get this done. But again, depending on your situation, it could be 600 dol.

[A]

What an amazing company.

[B]

It really is. I just wanted a couple stats from them. They've protected over $27 billion in assets. And I love this stat approximately 20% of the U.S. prenup market passes through. Hello, prenup. So they're doing 20% of all prenups in the U.S. these prenups are, obviously, it goes without saying, holding up in court. And I know that prenups can have stigma around them. And if it helps, you can call it a premarital agreement. That's another official term you can use that's sounds a little gentler, but ultimately it's just saying, obviously we plan to never need this. And that's why I will reiterate that studies show that couples who do these agreements have lower divorce rates. But in case things do go south and one party exits this marriage by divorce or worse. Not to get too dark, you get to decide what will happen to your current and future assets rather than what the the state decides for you. And it's more than just money in there. It's what the plan would be for your shared home, whether you own or rent, your pet, your pet's medical bills. You know, we had to put stuff in the agreement about Azul. And it is just providing that clarity and protection on your own terms. Which is what I love about it and why I wanted to share this so much. And I became friends with Julia, the co founder. She came to my show in Boston. She's a Boston girly. She came to the show. It was this really full circle moment at the very last show of the tour and to meet Shashank. And I was like, she's just helping with the prenup, you know, And I just really wanted to be in it. I didn't need her help. But I wanted to like, talk to her along the way. Cause I really want to speak about this and spread this gospel to anyone that is wanting to do a prenup and is like stressed about the cost and the time and the meetings and all that stuff. That there is an easier way. I feel like, so happy these women started this. Wow. No, I just. I love it.

[A]

I think how many people probably walk into this and see a price tag I and of 6 to $10,000 and they're like, nothing's gonna happen. We're gonna be fine. Like, I cannot tell you how many divorces I've seen recently. You and I have talked about this, like, with and without prenups. And like, we have friends that had car, a home, all kinds of. They were divorced in six weeks. Cause they had a prenup and other friends. That this will drag on forever and like years even. You think you love somebody and you are rock solid at the beginning of a relationship. And nothing will make somebody act worse than if you leave them, then they don't want to end the relationship. Like, I have seen the craziest behavior from people that loved each other more than anybody in the world. There's nothing more common on earth. And to be able to see people protect themselves, men and women, for under two grand. I just, like, love what they're doing.

[B]

I did ask them just for a little discount code. They wanted to partner with us so you guys can use GGE for $100 off.

[A]

I love it. It's a big discount.

[B]

Yeah. And that is hellopreneup.com just super easy. So I just wanted to share that. And I really feel for anybody who, who's going through this process and it's not sexy.

[A]

Oh, I had no idea how unsexy it was.

[B]

Marriage in general is just not sexy. It's just, it's paperwork. It's government paperwork. And now this is what, like our state gets to decide our relationship is.

[A]

It would be a really funny time to announce you're not actually married. Can you imagine after the two hour wedding episode, you're like, you know, we just didn't, we didn't sign the papers.

[B]

Well, I asked the lawyer that, like, and that's a whole other conversation. Like, he, he was like kind of doomsday about when couples don't get married and something called palimony, a partner can for someone based on what they were promised. And it's really vague and gray area. And it's actually, you're more protected in a marriage with a prenup than not getting married. Palimony is just, you weren't officially married, but you were living as if you were. You were living together.

[A]

Common law.

[B]

Yeah. And someone can come and be like, well, they told me that I could have the house. And there's really like, you just have to go to court to prove was interesting.

[A]

So it happens a lot with like, women that move in with men that promise them the world and, like, they give up their jobs and their homes and then men just leave them with nothing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Men are embarrassing.

[B]

Which brings us to our topic today. So we will get into it. Just gonna talk about our remaining partners. I am telling you guys about Saks Fifth Avenue. This episode is brought to you by Saks Fifth Avenue. Okay. This is the perfect place to find holiday gifts, inspiration, whoever you guys are shopping for. Maybe you have a new husband or your family.

[A]

Is that a gift guide?

[B]

If you think you're not getting something From Saks. Actually, I'm just gonna get you something to put in a Saks bag. Your style.

[A]

I have to tell you something after this.

[B]

What? Oh my God, you guys, she's full of secrets. Okay, so you guys can shop Saks. I just am on the site all the time. I mean, their gift guides are incredible. We always say men can be sometimes harder to shop for. Right? I'm looking at this polo sweatshirt right now. I think you wore a shirt with a bear on it last week. So here's another one. Your little.

[A]

The polo bear shirts, they. They slap so hard. Yeah, there's so many versions.

[B]

This arctic polo bear sweatshirt. Under 200 bucks. That's a great gift. And also anything you want to wear to a holiday party, of course, or any special event, they have you covered. And they really are going to help you find stuff that you just have. Just don't see everywhere. That's the thing. Like every time I'm on this site, I see clothing that I just have never seen before. And it can really help you stand out and just feel extra stylish, especially if you're in your fashion era. Ren and I are in our self proclaimed fashion era, and it really is going to help today for me. Find gifts for even the pickiest people on your list or curate your own holiday wish list. I can help you host the perfect holiday party or dinner, anything you want to do. Even if you're just staying cozy at home, like rain all weekend, you want to just lounge in some soft, cozy, comfy clothes. They have you covered for that too. So you guys should check them out. This holiday season, you can head to Saks Fifth Avenue or Saks.com to make shopping easier.

[A]

And speaking of holiday season, get a little gifty this season. And some spending can be a little out of control. Low sales, which are great, but it's hard to know, kind of like what your personal finances look like. So Rocket Money really is the best app for that. It is a personal finance app that helps you find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It'll monitor your spending and help lower your bills so you can grow your savings. So the interface is great. When you go on the app, it just gives you like an overview of everything that you're subscribed to, what your spending looks like. It's really easy to navigate it. The dashboard just lays out the whole financial picture of what bills you have to pay and paydays and things like that. So if you're just like, I want to get my finances in order this holiday season. This is like the best step. And one thing they're going to do is help you cancel unwanted subscriptions. So it'll lay out all the subscriptions you have and they can help you get rid of those. They can help you negotiate lower bills and you can get alert alerts for your bills increasing in price. So it monitors all this activity, all the spending. And Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. There are 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com GGEToday that's RocketMoney.com GGE RocketMoney.com GGE so today we're talking about if having a boyfriend is embarrassing. And neither of us have them. So we are not embarrassing. Killing it. We are married and single icons.

[B]

I'm obsessed with that.

[A]

We would never do you guys wrong by like having a boyfriend. That's so gross. But this article came out as an opinion piece in British Vogue. It's by the author Shantae Joseph and it's called is having a boyfriend embarrassing now? And we are gonna read you the article. It unpacks cultural norms and social norms around having a boyfriend and how things have really changed. And Ashley and I really wanna unpack themes in this and just how our own experiences have changed and our listeners experiences over the years and the types of messages we've gotten over the years versus now in relation to this. And the response to this article was unbelievable. I mean just millions of people from men, from women, from people in relationships, not in relationships. I'm. This has sparked a huge discussion online. I think we're the last podcast to talk about worldwide.

[B]

I think it's been translated in different languages. I mean she is floored like this. Put Vogue on the map.

[A]

Is Vogue back? Vogue is so back.

[B]

People hadn't heard of Vogue. No, I'm just kidding.

[A]

But seriously, they're so bad.

[B]

Vogue has stayed so relevant for its entire existence. But this is just Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue, Vogue. And I just, I love that it was in Vogue.

[A]

I do too. I love it. British Vogue.

[B]

Well, that's the thing like she was saying. And we'll talk about her response article. She wrote a follow up and she's like, people are calling me this New York City Carrie Bradshaw icon, I live in London.

[A]

Like she is giving that though.

[B]

Yeah. All right. I'm gonna try to speed read this. I might leave out some of the most relevant stuff. I read this article over and over to prepare for this, but we just felt like you guys, if you haven't read it, we don't want you to navigate away. So we just thought we would would read the article for you. Okay, so titled Is having a boyfriend embarrassing? Now the opening I can't get over, she says. If someone so much as says my boy on social media, they're muted.

[A]

You know there are some girls like that though that I'm like, you have made this your whole personality and I'm out.

[B]

There's nothing I hate more than following someone for fun, only for their content to become my boyfriend ified suddenly. This is probably because for so long it felt like we were living in what one of my favorite sub stackers calls boyfriend land, a world where women's online identities centered around the lives of their partners, a situation rarely reversed.

[A]

When I read that, I was like.

[B]

I never see that. It's chills the whole episode. Women were rewarded for their ability to find and keep a man with elevated social status and praise. It became even more suffocating when this could be leveraged on social media for engagement and, if you were serious enough, financial gain. However, more recently, there's been a pronounced shift in the way people showcase their relationships online. Far from fully hard launching romantic partners, straight women are opting for subtler signs, a hand on a steering wheel, clinking glasses at dinner, or the back of someone's head said on the more confusing and you have faces blurred out of wedding pictures or entire professionally edited videos with the fiance conveniently cropped out of all shots. Women are obscuring their partner's face when they post, as if they want to erase the fact that they exist without actually not posting them. So what gives? Are people embarrassed by their boyfriends now, or is it something more complicated going on? To me, it feels like the result of women wanting to straddle two worlds, one where they can receive the social benefits of having a partner, but also not appear so boyfriend obsessed that they come across as quite culturally loser Ish. They want the prize in celebration of partnership, but understand the norminess of it, says Zoe Sam Moody, writer and activist. In other words, in an era of widespread hetero fatalism, women don't want to be seen as being all about their man, but they also want the clout that comes with being partnered. But it's not all about image. When I did a call out on Instagram, plenty of women told me they were in fact superstitious. They feared the evil eye, a belief that their happy relationship would spark jealousy. I'm going to kind of paraphrase their concern about their relationship ending and then being stuck with the posts. Someone said, even though I'm a romantic, I still feel like men will embarrass you 12 years in, so claiming them feels so lame. Then there was an overwhelming sense from single and partnered women alike that regardless of the relationship, being with a man was an almost guilty thing to do. Someone on the Delusional Diaries podcast, they discussed whether having a boyfriend is lame. Now why does a boyfriend feel Republican? Read a top comment that's my favorite line. Boyfriends are out of style. They won't come back in until they start acting right. Read another comment with thousands of likes in essence, having a boyfriend typically takes hits on a woman's aura, as a commenter claimed. And it's not just in these women's imagination. Audiences are icked out by seeing too much boyfriend content, myself included. It seems as though indicated by my liberal use of the mute button. There's a British Vogue contributor they mentioned that Har launched her boyfriend. She lost hundreds of followers. There is something cringy and embarrassing about constantly posting your partner these days, she tells me. And then also you can feel guilty about what feels like bragging when the dating landscape is really bad at the moment, she says. I wouldn't want to be boastful. Sophie Milner, a content creator, also experienced people unfollowing her when she shared a romantic relationship. She admits that her content perhaps becomes less exciting when she is in a relationship. Being single gives you this ultimate freedom to say and do what you want. It is absolutely not every woman, but I do notice that we can become more beige and watered down online when in a relationship, myself included. From my conversation, one thing is certain, the script is shifting. Being partnered doesn't affirm your womanhood anymore. It is no longer considered an achievement. And if anything, it's become more of a flex to pronounce yourself single. As I read that line and I got up out of my seat as a married person, okay, as straight women were confronting something that every other sexuality has had to contend with, a politicization of our identity. Heterosexuality has long been purposely indefinable, so it is harder for those within it and outside of it to critique. However, as our traditional roles begin to crumble, maybe we're being forced to reevaluate our blind allegiance to heterosexuality. Obviously, there's no shame falling in love. But there is also no shame in trying and failing to find it or not trying at all. And as long as we're openly rethinking and criticizing heteronormativity, having a boyfriend will remain a somewhat fragile or even contentious concept within public life. This is also happening alongside a wave of women reclaiming and romanticizing their single life. Where being single was once a cautionary tale, you'll end up a spinster with loads of cash, cats, childless cat lady. J.D. vance. It is now becoming a desirable and coveted status. Another nail in the coffin of a centuries old heterosexual fairy tale that never really benefited women to begin with.

[A]

I love this article. Thank you to this author for writing this. It is really phenomenal to just see this cultural shift, this social shift. And you and I have seen this firsthand because of the tone of the emails we get from people over the years. And some of our most popular episodes in the last year were Scott Galloway and Professor Chesko, which both push back against these norms and say that, like, men are acting like trash and until that they act better, women shouldn't necessarily be with them. And for so many years the rhetoric was all these women are gonna end up alone. There's never been so many women that are unmarried, without children. And I think this takes back the narrative of, like, look at these lives that women are building and look how much happier you can be single than with somebody that is dragging you down and draining your resources. And none of this is to say, wanting partnership is not embarrassing. Wanting partnership is beautiful. And if somebody can have what you have, a real teammate in life, that makes their life better and uplifts them, makes their life easier, that's the goal. We're social beings, we all want to be with somebody. But until we find that making your entire personality and identity about another person who might not even be worthy of it, that's what's embarrassing.

[B]

And women don't need men anymore. Hot take. And I love, love the content surrounding this and how marriage benefits men more than women now in this day and age. I saw a comment and I wish I screenshot it, but it said if marriage benefited women, they would have taken it away from us by now. Seriously.

[A]

Right? You know, like, it's for like, access to abortion.

[B]

Yes. Like, just like health care, you know, the, the difference between men's and women's health care. So women are just more powerful than ever. And so many women obviously have not bought into this, this traditional patriarchy. But even more women are waking up to, like, I don't have to live like this. And we're seeing more women get elected. And there is this shift. I, like, feel it in my bones. And there was quite a response to this. And I want to say the. The title was not. Not inflammatory.

[A]

I think it's just.

[B]

I can understand why it struck a nerve. However, you have to read the whole article. Like, the response to this was proof we're losing the fight against literacy. Also, it was posed as a question. Also, it wasn't like, having a boyfriend is embarrassing, you suckers. Like, but people were pissed. And it's because it can be destabilizing to question what you've always thought is, I don't know, an end goal built.

[A]

Your whole life driving.

[B]

Yeah. You know, like, the most impressive way to live. And people are saying that's not true anymore. And so I understand where it did strike a nerve with a lot of people.

[A]

It was the status symbol. And I mean, I always joke that, like, when I hard launched my boyfriend years ago, it was the most engagement I've ever gotten. It was more than any accomplishment you and I had ever done. And I think being in love and being in a relationship is the most relatable thing in the world. Starting a new business, selling out the Chicago theater, not the most relatable thing in the world. So people can easily be a part of it. And so I understand people championing it. All women have been raised that finding a partner is the most important thing. So I understand that it is a real shock to the system. It sort of reminds me of the body positivity movement and how I have been conditioned my whole life to hate my body. And I woke up one day and somebody was like, you have to love your body now. And you're like, wait, I spent my whole life hating myself. Now I have to love myself. So I think this really just questions, you know, what does it look like to not have a partner? What do other status symbols look like? And my personal experience is like, I sort of zoomed out. Look at all my girlfriends. I've never had more single girlfriends in my life. Really successful, amazing women that all seem pretty happy. And I've seen quite a few girlfriends walk away from men in the last year that made a ton of money, could have made their lives real easy, could have provided a home and children and all those things. And they were living with these men.

[B]

And.

[A]

And I have seen my friends walk away from situations that could have benefited them in a lot of ways because they were not happy in those situations. And I love that we're championing that. I love that. That's really overwhelmingly what our listeners are emailing us about. I found this person. They're fine. But could being alone maybe be better than just fine? And I love that we're finally questioning this.

[B]

Right. What's embarrassing is. Is being with someone who makes your life worse, who makes your life harder, more stressful, more unstable, just so you're not single. You know, obviously, what's embarrassing is letting a man become your whole life. And we can kind of tackle that later and abandon your friendships and your hobbies and all the things that make you you for some man. And the thing that I just keep coming back to is that any woman who was brought up, whether it be through nurture or nature or both, to believe that marriage is the end goal, and this is our greatest accomplishment as a woman, is to be a wife and. Or a mother and always felt like being partnered was better than being single. Like, a lot of those women felt like being single was embarrassing.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

We all know those people that. They think that's a fate worse than death. And they just hop from relationship to relationship. Because the being single of it all is what's so embarrassing, Which I couldn't relate less. I've never felt like that I've been single most of my life. And so it's totally flipping that on its head. I mean, I think it's hard for some people to process. They're like, oh, it's the exact opposite of what I thought. All this time, I was trying to avoid the thing that I thought was embarrassing, which was to be alone.

[A]

I have never been more single than I am today. I'm not dating anybody. I am not really sleeping with anybody. I'm really happy. I just. I had this great weekend. No one was bothering me. I have all these girlfriends and social plans, and I feel really fulfilled professionally. We have a lot of, like, great stuff coming up, and there's not a real deficit in my life. Cause I think I'm never waiting for somebody to ask me, like, why are you single? Why are you dating anybody? I don't have any fears. I never have, really, about going over the holidays and someone's like, where's the guy? Like, you know, I just. I feel more comfortable in my single time and happier than I ever have. And I have more single girlfriends than I have ever had in my life. And I just. I understand that's not everybody's experience. I'm really lucky that we don't really have a lot of girlfriends, even the ones that are married or in serious relationships that make that their whole personality. None of my girlfriends have ever made me feel stupid or less than because I'm single and they've managed to figure it out. And these fuck boys I deal with, no one's ever made me feel less than. They take it seriously. They take my life seriously. And I'm really lucky that you and I, that's our experience, and we're surrounded by really amazing women. But I understand that it's hard to be in a community where everybody is married with children and you're like. Like, I feel left out.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Do you feel like. I feel like on social media and I didn't really even think about this until this article came out, but, like, you used to see so many, like, influencer girlies, and a lot of their content was them and their boyfriend, so much of it. And I feel like I don't see that as much as I used to like, and I really, like, ran the tape. Do you feel like it's become, like, less in vogue to be this, like, influencer couple and that's your whole brand?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, that's the part of the shift, I think. And it's also okay if you still do that. And we know some of those couples, and I think overall, we just need to stop policing women. And whether you choose to make a partner a big part of your world publicly or you choose to decenter them, I support both. You know, I think I fall somewhere in the middle. I mean, you can agree or disagree, but I think we've gotten to this place where we're, like, so critical in general. And I think a big thing that Hannah and Paige have owned is the de centering of their partners. And then, you know, you're ha. You have people that are going to critique that too. And they're like, well, they must not be in love and they must be breaking up. And, you know, you can't win a lot of times. And so I think I wanted to make that statement that we've just got to stop policing women, like, whatever they want to do. But I found it really fascinating in the article. Like, clearly there's a shift, a cultural shift, and women are just becoming more powerful, independent by the day, but of the embarrassment of it all. And just like, the concept of not posting someone because you might break up isn't new, but just more than ever, it's just so much bad behavior. And even someone saying, like, you're bound to embarrass me, like, you don't get to be A part of my social presence is interesting.

[A]

I mean, we've never seen worse behavior in the history of time. I think every. I feel like every day. I mean, I only date men, so I can only speak to men, but only every day men invent new ways to be unbelievably terrible. I've dealt with so much bad behavior this year from people that I've dated. It's just new and fresh all the time. I can't believe it. And I don't feel personally embarrassed. It's embarrassing to lean into that and to tolerate it and to lower your standards for somebody. And you shouldn't feel embarrassed. I know you find somebody that you care about and people are imperfect and you want to give them grace and understanding and compassion. But I see so many people just stick around and be like, well, do you ever see this meme? And said like, I'm just a girl standing here asking a totally mediocre guy who I'm better looking than, it's okay if he doesn't want to commit to me, maybe he could just text me a little bit more. He says in the vein, yeah, I see so much terrible behavior and I hate that women have stuck around for it for so long. And it's behavior that men would never stick around for the. Again, I can't speak to what women do. I only date men. But the inconsistency and the gaslighting and the cheating and even all the way up to. I mean, I cannot believe what women have been forced to deal with that men would never deal with. And dealing with that for a long time can feel embarrassing. And I like that. Women are just like, until y' all get better, I'm gonna be over here in my corner with my friends, my hobbies, my job, my interests until you get better.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. And you know, a lot of the takes were, it's embarrassing if he's embarrassing. You know, like, it's embarrassing if he's an embarrassing guy and he doesn't treat you well and he makes your life shitty. We co sign that. But she wrote in her follow up article, which I also really appreciated. She said another common response to my article was an immediate rush to add caveats to the main question. People insisted that having a boyfriend had the potential to be embarrassing only when a man doesn't meet certain criteria or isn't good to you. Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. The need to identify exceptions is one way of evading conversation about meaningful change within heterosexual definitions. Dynamics and the mess of modern Dating, you know, because everyone's like, not my man. Not my man. And like, I also get that too.

[A]

Because you feel like, not my man. Yeah, it's not my man. It's not about me.

[B]

Yeah. Well, it reminds me of this TikTok I posted, and I don't think that she's the first person to ever post this, but it said, the biggest man haters have the best men at home. I will die on this hill. And I think that's a lot of what we talked about with Drew Oalo of just like women who understand the harm that men cause in this society and have high standards for the men they let in their life and kind of do the whole man hating thing, if you really want to put it in that bucket, which I don't really think that we do. But, you know, you can throw us in there talking about bad men behavior. And we're feminists. And the man that you do choose is gonna be a good one. And I love that take.

[A]

Yeah. I think also, like, you look at your own relationship and you're like, you specifically. I think, like, we get along, we treat each other really well. Why is this so hard for some men? And I think no one hates this behavior from men more than men. I think men look at other men and you're like, you're making us look so bad. And I was really shocked. I had like a pretty. I slept with a friend of ours. It didn't go well. It was bad. He treated me really poorly and I was very upset. It really took me out. And all my girlfriends were super supportive. You were supportive. Everybody was wonderfully supportive. The people that got the most mad about this were our male friends. The ones that you and I would say are in great relationships. They're great husbands, they're great boyfriends. They're the ones that are like, I would never fucking do this. I cannot believe this behavior. They were more mad than my girlfriends were.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cause I think men are like, I am better, and it's not that hard.

[B]

Well, this is how I feel about white women. And I bring this comparison up all the time. Cause it's really all I got. When you talk about men versus women, I'm gonna speak on behalf of white women. And when I see a headline or a TikTok or an article or whatever about the problem with white women, no, I don't think I'm perfect. And I try my best every day to be the best white woman I can be. But I know they're not talking about me in the way that these women vote, what they support, their misogyny, their values, the inflicting harm on immigrants or whatever it may be. We know the women you're talking about, and that's not who I am. But it makes me even more mad because we're part of the same group and you're making us look bad. Bad. And so I understand where men are, like, pissed about this. And I was watching some of the response videos too, because, I mean, my tick tock is just fire all the time. It is just hot, progressive people. My entire TikTok it is incredible. It was like the hottest women you've ever seen standing up for what's right and Democrats. And then these hot guys, like, talking about how men need to act. Right. Like, it is so perfectly curated. But I was watching a guy talk about like, hey guys, women are out here saying, we're embarrassing. Like, men are behaving badly. We got to do better. And it felt really authentic and it was a great message. And I was like, I know that face. Who is that? And it was Casey from Fuckboy island, like so many years ago. And I was like, what a redemption arc. I guess that's funny. And I love that. Like, that's how it should feel. Like, of course there was immediate backlash from insecure men and she got hate mail and death threats, I'm sure. And she talks about that in her follow up article. She says the article sparked some hateful abuse and people told her, you're going to die sad and single and, you know, threatened her or whatever. And she said at points all of this was worrying. But I quickly realized they likely saw the article as a threat to a system that has historically favored them. If having a man used to be the ultimate prize and now some women are questioning whether it is anymore, well, that's bound to be destabilizing.

[A]

So I thought that was really interesting in connection to why does it feel decidedly Republican? And the re. And I listened. Republicans are not the same as MAGA to me, but MAGA to me is a system that upholds the patriarchy and men over everything and has really. They're taking away women's reproductive rights. I mean, it is the party that is doing that that is benefiting the patriarchy. So, you know, all of this having a boyfriend and being with somebody that is mediocre or doesn't treat you well, that benefits men. This all benefits. So it feels decidedly maga.

[B]

Yeah. And it's rain and I are out here joking about it being embarrassing having a boyfriend. We're just joking about the article. Like saying rain a single I'm married. Like, whatever. Like we would never, like I had a boyfriend. I mean, you know, it's not embarrassing to be in a healthy relationship with someone you love. I think that most people want love in their life. You mentioned it. They want partnership. And the writer says that in her follow up article too. Like, I want to find somebody too. And that's why it was so interesting the way that people read this and got got so defensive. And again, it's because you thought, you may have thought that having this boyfriend was this universally respected thing and people are questioning that. Yeah, but it's not. I mean, obviously, like if you're in a relationship you're proud of, it's not embarrassing and show it or don't and.

[A]

Wanting it is not embarrassing. Finding somebody who treats you really well is wonderful. You know, I think it is important that the cultural shift, the suggestion that there's another way of life that could also make you happy, that you don't have to identify having a partner as being the most important achievement in the world. There's other important achievements in the world. And I'm pretty proud of myself. I have a great life. I don't have a boyfriend and if I found one, great, that's great too. But if not, if I never find somebody, I will have a great life and either way is fine. I just, I like that we're challenging these, these cultural norms.

[B]

Yeah, that's the biggest thing for me. Like the old school way of thinking were women in relationships had a higher place in society than single women. And it shouldn't be like that. And this is flipping that on its head. But at the end of the day, I don't like women being defined by their relationship status. And that was a pushback on the article too. And I don't like that single women are trendy now. Like, I like the ultimate message because I always want, like to empower single women. Live your best life, you don't need a partner. But I just want to toe that line of implying that independence is a trend or single women against partnered women. And I think some people took that away. And you can take that away from it or not. But I think when you really start to label and define women by their relationship status, that gets into dangerous territory and that defeats the purpose. I think that's a good point.

[A]

To me, the ultimate takeaway is like there's just a lot of paths to happiness. And if you want your whole identity in the world and on Social media to be you and your partner. That's fine too. A lot of people make a lot of money doing that. That's fine also. But I like just opening up the conversation that like you can be happy in any different phase of life and it's not embarrassing to be single. I mean, how many people were single at your wedding this week?

[B]

I couldn't believe it.

[A]

Like we saw a couple people come without their partners. We have a lot of single girlfriends. I just, I feel really lucky that the women in my life one, we're not friends with her anymore. But the women in my life don't define themselves by their partners and they also have wonderful partners. You know, I think that like both things can exist. You can have this amazing relationship at home and also not define yourself by it.

[B]

Yeah, it was nice to see that at the wedding that there were single people there looking hot, living their best life. And they're also just really great men, you know, that were there and just, I don't know, hearing about my friends husbands who were, they were so excited to dress up in Indian clothes or a chance to break out the tux and be there for all four of the events and just really support me. It just was really nice. They're just, I don't have any really those like duds of husbands like in, in our, in our lives really.

[A]

I love our friends husbands.

[B]

What would you have done if the headline said is having a podcast embarrassing?

[A]

Show them my bank account would have struck a nerve.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

That's so fair.

[B]

Amen, sis.

[A]

What would you have done? Quit the podcast?

[B]

I was trying to reframe it a little bit. You know, I was trying to put myself in the shoes of someone that would think that a big accomplishment of theirs and something they put a lot of weight and value on is being questioned as embarrassing.

[A]

Okay, so I'm glad you asked me that because I was talking to this guy last week we were out with, and very good looking guy. He was with some friends of ours and he had this conversation with me where I don't think he really knew who he was talking to. I'll give him that. He said, I find it really. He was talking about his ex and what she like. He said, I find it really unattractive. Women that want the spotlight. I'd never be with somebody that really wants a lot of attention, that's posting themselves a lot. That's just like, look at me, I need all this. I need everybody to hear my thoughts and opinions. I was kind of like laughing on the inside as he was saying this and I. And that's okay to have a personal preference also, I was not on a date with this man who knew everything about me. And then it was insulting me. He was expressing a personal preference to me. And as he was saying that, I just thought, this doesn't apply to me. I just don't care. Yes, I need a lot of attention. I have a big platform. I want to talk about what I think and feel publicly on the Internet all the time. It's not going to be for everybody. If some people find it cringe and embarrassing, that's fine. You and I, I think, have changed the world and changed people's lives. And if other people find that cringe, that's their preference.

[B]

Yes. And I love to wrap the conversation up in that way. If this struck a nerve with you, are you embarrassed of your boyfriend? You know, like, so many people did this clap back Vogue is this embarrassing? And it's some mediocre guy. It's some mid guy. Like, I watch a lot of the response videos.

[A]

Is this embarrassing?

[B]

And it's like he brought you flowers. No, you didn't get it. It did. You read it. You didn't. You missed the point completely. And now you're overcompensating. And I think you are embarrassing.

[A]

You are embarrassing. You're exactly who the article is talking about being embarrassing.

[B]

I just like love that old response.

[A]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[B]

And it'd be like the, the corniest couple video you've ever seen. Get this.

[A]

Vogue.

[B]

Single haters, you know?

[A]

So anyway, yeah, listen, if you don't think it's about you, you, it's not about you.

[B]

Let's bring reading comprehension back. Yeah, let's make reading great again.

[A]

That guy did apologize the next day. Not to me, but he told our friend to apologize.

[B]

Yeah, and that's the thing. I mean, I don't want a guy that's in the spotlight like that.

[A]

And there's things about that guy I wouldn't like too. I wasn't saying it to his face.

[B]

But yeah, yeah, that's the difference. He felt comfortable just insulting your face.

[A]

He was like, you know what's really gross is when people want the spotlight and I'm like, do you know successful I am?

[B]

He's like, you know, when women hold microphones, I just like find it so disgusting. Such an ick. When women think they should be able.

[A]

To speak into a mic, I'm like, yeah, no, totally. You are lucky you're six two.

[B]

Okay, worst fictional boyfriends and this is a discourse we've seen. And do you think it's in tandem with the article, or is it just a coincidence Vogue put out the article? Okay, well, I just was seeing, like, buzzfeeds and different things like that. Okay. Vogue did this.

[A]

So Vogue put up an article. The 13 Most Embarrassing Boyfriends in pop culture.

[B]

Okay, got it. Sorry. Okay. Keep it in.

[A]

This is not our. Yeah, this is not an original.

[B]

Oh, man. Well, they have all mine on there.

[A]

Well, listen, it's going to be a lot of the same people. I think there's only one, actually. I think I have two. I think the most embarrassing boyfriend of all time is Joe Goldberg from you. He's a murderer.

[B]

Is he?

[A]

Is he a murderer?

[B]

No.

[A]

Is he?

[B]

Did you watch you season one? A little bit.

[A]

Okay. He's not the most embarrassing, honestly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The most embarrassing of all time ever, hearts up. Is Mr. Big.

[B]

Mr. Big.

[A]

There's nothing more embarrassing. And I love that we as a society, the cultural shift from, like, I just want to love like that to realizing what a toxic dumpster fire that was.

[B]

Yes. Okay. Close second is Burger. Definitely.

[A]

Burger at least got out of there, though.

[B]

Yes. Big is worse. Big is 100% worse, but Burger's a close second. And I think Berger is tied for second with Alexander Petrovsky. Really?

[A]

Petrovsky? Because he just wanted to be number one.

[B]

Yeah. And he. I think he didn't really show her a lot of care, and he moved her to Paris and kind of abandoned her.

[A]

I think that that relationship would have been better with just somebody who didn't have any career aspirations, somebody much younger that just wants to support somebody, have kids, take their money.

[B]

Okay, big question for you. I want to do one more Sex in the City. I want to ask you who you think is worse, Richard wright or Trey McDougal?

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

It was embarrassing. Charlotte never fucked him before she married him. And I hate to blame the woman, but Charlotte, that's embarrassing. You didn't see if that dick worked.

[A]

Different. Things were. So Charlotte was being embarrassing. She's the embarrassing boyfriend.

[B]

Like, she. She's the. It's embarrassing to have a boyfriend girl.

[A]

Richard is only embarrassing because he cheats on her, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He was just. All other things considered, he was fine. And then Trey, he was like a crazy mama's boy. I think I'm going try as worse.

[B]

I think who I think should be more embarrassing embarrassed is Charlotte, because Richard.

[A]

Was hotter and richer.

[B]

She should have him before the wedding.

[A]

She should be embarrassed. I can't decide. Honestly, any man that lets their mother just walk up into their house when we are home, that's crazy.

[B]

Trey. Trey is such an ick.

[A]

Yeah, Trey's an ick. Warner from Legally Blonde. Nice.

[B]

That's a great one.

[A]

Not disputable, though, in any way. You know, Warren, obviously, just terrible.

[B]

Well, that's the thing. I like the ones that are new to the zeitgeist in Bad Boyfriends, which is Ross Geller.

[A]

I love you.

[B]

There's a real discussion about how Ross was such a shitty boyfriend. And, like, I saw this cool carousel on Elite Daily. I mean, we don't need to go through it all if you watch Friends, you know? But the list of pros and cons, you weren't such a friends person.

[A]

Yeah, no, give me the cons. I need. I need it to be explained a little bit more.

[B]

Okay. He runs. Wrote a list of pros and cons about Rachel and Julie. And for Rachel, he wrote Just a Waitress. Spoiled too into her looks. He wrote that about her and they got back together after that. He dated her sister. People forget that.

[A]

Oh, what?

[B]

He was so jealous of her career. Someone wrote rachel should have gone to Paris and Ross should have gone to hell.

[A]

I mean, he just couldn't give her a consistent.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. Like, it was so many years of, I can't really. I'm not gonna choose you. No.

[B]

Ross was in love with Rachel. I just. The whole time. I mean, then, you know, Emily got in the mix and Julie and that. But it's like, I just never saw the chemistry. I think it was the most bizarre pairing. And then you see Rachel date Joey and the chemistry was there and that's who should have ended up together. Like, I just could never get behind Ross.

[A]

He just was, like, in love with her from the time she was, like, so young. Right. They were, like, in high school.

[B]

Felt like it was just a trophy to him. Yes.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna hit you with one. I don't know. I don't know that other people think of this. Adam from Girls.

[B]

Oh, I was gonna ask you about Girls because I was looking at a few lists and people said, Desi. Wait, Adam was who?

[A]

Adam Driver's name was Adam in the show.

[B]

Oh, that's right. Okay. Right.

[A]

He just. For the first, like, couple years, he wouldn't. For the first season, he wouldn't commit to her if she just showed up. I don't think she saw him outside of the home for, like, years.

[B]

So annoying.

[A]

Yes. It's hard to say, like, which one of them Was more toxic.

[B]

He. Madam. Well, people were saying Desi.

[A]

And then he ends up dating her best friend in the world and breaking him up. Yeah.

[B]

These worst boyfriends, to me, are not the outright assholes. Yes, they are the guys that we were supposed to think were decent guys. And now the wool has been pulled back. What is it? Yeah, the wool is no longer over.

[A]

Blind. Now I see.

[B]

And we're like, oh, gross.

[A]

But Desi. Desi left his girlfriend was cheating on. Cheating on his girlfriend with Marnie for like a year before they got together. And he only left his girlfriend because she kind of found out, broke up with him.

[B]

Okay. All right. Two kind of deeper cuts from our childhood teenage years. Dawson and Seth from the OC and.

[A]

People are saying he wasn't great, but I didn't really watch the O.C.

[B]

I know. Well, I watched it live one time. Like I've watched. I watched it through when it was on air. I believe I was in college. Shashank is a huge OC guy. And I showed him this. These memes. And he was like, no, he was the worst, actually. There was a Thanksgiving. He had like a summer. And Rachel Bilson, he had another girl there. Like, he was kind of a she.

[A]

Shitty boyfriend of the summer. I turned pretty guys. Which one do you think is worse?

[B]

Just like both. I'm just team Steven Belly's brother. Just neither. Oh, yeah. I think he's a good boyfriend, actually. Steven and Taylor and not Jeremiah or Conrad. But people are saying more Jeremiah. But that was like, not a hot take during the season. Always been talk about Nate from Devil Wears Prada.

[A]

It was not terrible to me.

[B]

I know. I rewatched it recently because it was. Was this whole shift. It was like we didn't really have a problem with him back then. And then it was like this discussion about Nate being the real villain. Cause he didn't really support her career. And then I watched it recently and I was like, he wasn't that bad. I think he was bummed when she was like a slave to her job.

[A]

Also, like, she went to work for a publication that she talked shit on. All those people that publication people that want to work there, these fashion girlies. And I think he was like, you don't take this seriously. Why would I take this seriously? Now you're asking me to take this seriously? But, like, we have been on the same page this whole time that this is dumb.

[B]

Yeah. And she started to care about these things she thought were shallow before. And the way she was looking and presenting herself. And I Mean, yeah, she had a glow up, but I don't think Nate's the worst.

[A]

I guess I don't at all. All right, I'm gonna throw a cartoon in here.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And we could do Disney all day. But I think the worst Disney guy is Eric from the Little Mermaid. He liked her. Cause she couldn't talk. She had no voice. And he was like, that's my girl.

[B]

Yes. Like she was willing to give up her singing voice to be with him.

[A]

And her whole family and everybody that she knew. And he was like, do it.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah, Eric was pretty bad.

[A]

He's the. He's my number one worst.

[B]

Okay, we. I told you we're not gonna do any Aladdin slander on this podcast.

[A]

No, I could do Beauty at Gaston. Obviously that's an arguable the Beast. Also not great. Also not great.

[B]

Wait, what did he do? He was just gonna like controlling. Yeah, you're right.

[A]

He was locked her in a cage.

[B]

Or controlling for sure. Okay, some of the other ones from this article are hilarious. Aaron Samuels obviously mean girls, but people said Michael Scott. This article is ridiculous. Am I still in the right article? Elon Musk? I don't know.

[A]

I don't think this is the right article. What are you reading?

[B]

The 13 Most Embarrassing Boyfriends in pop culture. And the final one, Elon Musk. Elon Musk. I thought we were doing fictional. He's in there.

[A]

How did Elon Musk get in here?

[B]

Okay, and I'm gonna just throw one in again. I thought we were doing fictional, but Blake from selling Sunset, he just really takes the cake. Oh, he is the most embarrassing boyfriend I've seen in a while.

[A]

That guy could be a hundred billionaire and that would be the most embarrassing person that you could ever date. Honestly, without the money. Less embarrassing. A person that doesn't know where Boston is and has never tried a vegetable before. If you don't have access to vegetables in the Internet, fine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But this guy is too rich to not know what broccoli and Boston is.

[B]

Yeah, you've rejected the access you've been given in this world. Okay, but that is like on screen cringing. So he's. He's my top.

[A]

Yeah, I'm with you, number one.

[B]

Okay, well, I think that that covers it. And you know, you guys, do you whatever you want to do. You want to have a boyfriend, you want to get a prenup, you want.

[A]

To start a stand up career?

[B]

Start a stand up.

[A]

I can't recommend performing for our audience enough if you can.

[B]

Yes, exactly. So we hope you guys enjoyed it and we hope you have a great Thanksgiving.

[A]

Yes. Happy Thanksgiving. We are so thankful for you guys. We just love you. We hope you have safe travels and a calm. A calm holiday season with the family.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We're here for you. Oh, Ashley, you can DM her. Your. Your family drama.

[B]

Yes. If you guys have family drama and you're hiding out in your childhood bedroom, just give me the tea. Okay, so girlsgotteat.com you guys can get tickets to our New York holiday show at Girls gotta eat dot com, Girls Gotta Eat podcast, Instagram and TikTok. I am Ash Hess. Raina is Raina Greenberg. Watch that space and subscribe on YouTube. Share this episode with a friend and we'll see you next Monday.

[A]

Have a great holiday and a great weekend, guys.

[B]

Sam.