S2 Ep11: Nadine Baggott

Summary

Podcast Summary: Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons – Season 2, Episode 11: Nadine Baggott

Release Date: December 9, 2024

Hosts:

• Caroline Hirons – Award-winning skincare expert, Number 1 bestselling author, and founder of Skin Rocks.
• Nadine Baggott – Veteran beauty industry professional with over 35 years of experience, renowned for her no-nonsense approach to beauty and skincare journalism.

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Introduction

In Season 2, Episode 11 of Glad We Had This Chat, Caroline Hirons welcomes Nadine Baggott, a stalwart in the beauty journalism world. The episode delves deep into Nadine's extensive career, industry insights, personal skincare routines, and candid discussions about the evolving landscape of beauty and aesthetics.

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Career Beginnings and Trajectory (02:46 – 08:05)

Nadine Baggott shares her journey from humble beginnings to becoming a respected name in beauty journalism. Starting with modest magazines like British Printer and Home and Freezer Digest, Nadine's passion for beauty led her to Living magazine. Despite early setbacks, including redundancy at 28, her perseverance paid off when she cold-called the Daily Mail with beauty ideas, leading to her first published piece.

Notable Quote:

"Working in magazines is like being in an abusive relationship. You are always told you are never smart enough, thin enough, posh enough, rich enough. You're just never enough."
— Nadine Baggott [05:46]

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Transition to Influencing and Industry Evolution (08:05 – 13:10)

Nadine discusses her transition from traditional journalism to becoming an influencer, navigating the rise of digital media. She highlights the shift in the beauty industry from magazines to blogs and social media influencers, emphasizing the challenges and opportunities this evolution presented.

Notable Quote:

"Magazine sales went down, magazines sadly closed. Then they started conglomerating them. Then influencers came up... it's a new world order."
— Nadine Baggott [12:26]

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Insights on Beauty and Skincare Trends (15:19 – 27:25)

The conversation shifts to the state of the beauty industry, where Nadine expresses her disdain for "clean beauty" fear-mongering and misinformation. She critiques the over-regulation and marketing tactics that prioritize profits over genuine skincare benefits. Nadine advocates for scientifically-backed products and criticizes brands that mislead consumers with unfounded claims.

Notable Quote:

"Beauty is so heavily regulated, it is safe. Please, the world is not out to get you. Stop the conspiracy theorists."
— Nadine Baggott [17:40]

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Aesthetics and Cosmetic Procedures (32:07 – 42:08)

Nadine shares her personal experiences with aesthetic procedures, including IPL treatments and blepharoplasty. She discusses the industry's lack of proper regulation, the prevalence of unqualified practitioners, and the potential dangers associated with cosmetic surgeries performed by inadequately trained individuals. Nadine emphasizes the need for stricter legislation to ensure consumer safety.

Notable Quote:

"90% of aesthetic clinics are charlatans and they're just out to grab your cash. It bugs me so much."
— Nadine Baggott [36:32]

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Personal Skincare Routines (42:15 – 47:06)

Both Caroline and Nadine delve into their personal skincare routines, highlighting their preferences and philosophies. Nadine emphasizes simplicity and efficacy, avoiding overly fragranced products due to her perioral dermatitis. She contrasts her straightforward approach with Caroline's more sensorial and luxurious skincare practices.

Notable Quote:

"A one thing I can't imagine. Not cleansing. That's just disgusting. I can't bear being grubby."
— Nadine Baggott [52:07]

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Industry Joys and Challenges (32:18 – 34:39)

Nadine reflects on the camaraderie and friendships formed within the beauty industry. She appreciates the supportive network of PRs, journalists, and influencers that have been instrumental in her career. However, she also touches upon the challenges of maintaining work-life balance and the relentless nature of beauty journalism.

Notable Quote:

"The biggest joy of being in the industry? The women in the industry. I love my people in the industry. My friends are all from the industry."
— Nadine Baggott [32:22]

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Favorite Products and Industry Opinions (43:00 – 57:17)

The duo discusses their favorite and least favorite beauty products. Nadine praises classic cleansers like Dove's unscented solid cleansing bar and Corelle Mist, while critiquing trend-driven products like the Jones Road Miracle Bomb. They also debate the merits and pitfalls of current beauty trends, emphasizing the importance of practicality over fleeting popularity.

Notable Quote:

"In fact, just full stop, you know, I just don't get young people worrying about aging. When you're in your 20s, you should be in the south of France trying to get a shag."
— Nadine Baggott [53:09]

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Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions (58:07 – End)

As the episode wraps up, Nadine expresses her excitement about the Glad We Had This Chat podcast and hints at upcoming live tours. She underscores the importance of authenticity in beauty journalism and her commitment to providing honest, science-backed advice to her audience.

Notable Quote:

"It's just really, really interesting and exciting and we're incredibly privileged to do it."
— Nadine Baggott [34:14]

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience in Career: Nadine's journey underscores the importance of perseverance and adaptability in the ever-evolving beauty industry.
• Critical Eye on Trends: A strong critique of misleading beauty trends and marketing tactics that prioritize aesthetics over genuine skincare benefits.
• Advocacy for Regulation: Emphasis on the need for stricter regulations in the aesthetics sector to protect consumers from unqualified practitioners.
• Personal Skincare Philosophy: Both hosts highlight the value of tailored skincare routines that prioritize individual needs over one-size-fits-all solutions.
• Community and Support: The significance of a supportive network within the beauty industry, fostering collaboration and growth.

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Conclusion

This episode of Glad We Had This Chat offers listeners an in-depth look into Nadine Baggott's illustrious career and her candid perspectives on the beauty industry's current state. Caroline Hirons and Nadine engage in a meaningful dialogue that balances professional insights with personal anecdotes, providing both entertainment and valuable information for beauty enthusiasts.

For those interested in more insights and unfiltered discussions, be sure to tune into future episodes and submit your questions to [e-mail]. Stay connected through Caroline's social channels for the latest updates and content.

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Follow Us:

• Instagram: @carolinehirons
• Website: carolinehirons.com
• Skin Rocks: skinrocks.com
• YouTube: Caroline Hirons
• TikTok: @carolinehirons

Transcript

[Caroline Hirons]

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[Nadine Baggott]

Here we are folks. The most insanely efficacious, sensorial, luxurious cleansing balm in the world has landed. I don't need to tell you what it takes to put my name to a cleansing balm, and this one had one mother of a brief. The skin Rocks Cleansing balm is the best balm ever created and one I would choose every single time over anything I've ever used. Five rollercoaster years of fearless ambition, sky high expectation, tears, trust, triumphs and F bombs. No pressure then, but what a result. Undoubtedly my most anticipated product. This was by far the hardest to make. The texture and crunch that took four years to perfect. Its ability to decimate literally everything on your face. The R in a jar scent, the paperweight, heavy hot pink glass. I mean literally everything I adore in a cleanser has been distilled into one glorious jar and it is absolutely spectacular. Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the Support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support and help improve skin firmness, elasticity and hydration. There is simply nothing like it. It's £55. It's ready and waiting and there is no dupe. Welcome to Glad we had this chat with me, Caroline Hirons. It's your one stop shop for all things skincare, beauty and beyond. My guest this week has over 35 years of experience in the beauty industry. Praised for her no BS attitude to all things beauty and skincare. She's written for the Times, Marie Claire, the Evening Standard, and most famously, hello. She's Also a regular face on this Morning. That leaves everyone asking, what is her secret? You scumbag. You maggot. It's Nadine Baggott, the big nb. How are you?

I'm very well, thank you.

I can't believe you're wearing a cream jumper. I wore black, thinking I'd blend in with you because you're never not in black and you wear cream and I.

Wear black and I wore cream for you.

What is going on? At least we're on the same.

We're synced.

We're synced. How are you? What you've been up to this week?

I have just got back from Belfast and yesterday I was filming again. It's. It's a busy time. Right.

It's Q4. Yeah, it's all going on, mate.

That's a Brand founder speaking.

Q4. It's retail head. Yeah, Retail head. Rather than jump into your career and journalism and all of this, I'm going to go to the beginning because a lot of the time we start talking and then I get to point, I think, oh, I haven't even asked them anything about skincare. Right, so what's your earliest memories of skincare slash beauty?

Oil of you lay. You lay. Pink bottle. You lay. You lay. That's not a mistake by me. It used to be called Oil of Yulet. So my grandmother had the little blue Nivea tin with the peel off and my mother had Oil of Yulet and then the. What's the soap called with the little sticker on the top?

Imperial Leather.

Imperial Leather. So, Imperial Leather, Nivea Tin. Oil of Yulet.

I think we've all got that. Maya also had Max Factor Puff.

Max Factor Powder Puff in translucent. My mum used to put that on and just wear lipstick.

Why did everyone use Vozine as if they all had a bad scalp?

Do. Do you know why we had to use Vosine, Nyx? We only had a bath once a week.

Yeah, and it was grim.

Trust me, you needed Vosine to clean that scabby Comprehensive School head. I still love the smell of it as well.

I love the smell of it as well.

And no conditioner.

No.

And then a brush. A brush. I don't think my scalp's ever recovered.

Isn't it shocking? That's what I loved about Sally's book when she did. Pretty iconic. Every page. I knew what was coming, Elnet. You just knew what was coming up next. How did that become. Did you think it was going to be something you wanted to do?

No, not at all. I knew when I left university that I wanted to be a journalist. And then what happened was I came from a pretty crappy university with a pretty average degree, so I wasn't offered any nice jobs. So I worked my way up slowly as a sub on really average magazines. So my first job was on a magazine called British Printer. Then I worked on Home and Freezer Digest. I mean, try beating that with your Tattlers and Vogues. Then I went to work on a magazine and I'm a features writer, so I was trained as a features writer. And then I was in a magazine. 29 floors of gorgeous, glamorous women. And I was at this magazine. I thought I'd made it. It was wonderful. It was just called Living. It was very average, sort of. Sort of Poor Man's Good Housekeeping. And what happened was I just noticed who were the most glamorous women having the most fun. There were two departments, the fashion department, who were not very friendly and not very nice, and the Health and Beauty department, who were lovely. And I thought, that's it.

How old are you at this point?

Oh, old, like 27, 28.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's not old.

[Nadine Baggott]

No, but old for comparatively, maybe starting.

Magazine on a job, a glossy magazine. And then what happened was I thought, this makes perfect sense. Health and beauty is all the science, all the art combined, plus it's good investigative journalism. Happy days. And a job came up and I applied for it and I got it and then that was it.

And what was the trajectory from there?

Oh, not that great. So I was there for about a year and a half, got made redundant and I just bought my first flat on my own and I'd previously had flats with flatmates. And I remember you and I have got a lot in common, but the one thing we've got in common is that working class drive. And I remember thinking, right, I've got a mortgage, I've just been. Just been made redundant. What am I going to do? And I cold called the Daily Mail and that was a really scary, cold call. And they just pick up the phone and go, yes, go.

At least they pick up the phone.

I was just wondering if you want any beauty ideas. And she went, yeah, here's my email, send them to me. Had no idea who I was. I sent off three ideas and she said, she emailed me back and said, okay, I have no idea who you are or if you can write, but write the top two and if I like them, I'll publish them. If not, we won't publish them and I won't pay you. And I sent it off. Sent the first one off. And I should have kept this. And this is how old I am. I had a came back home one day and there was a voice machine message saying hi, Nadine, it's Louise Atkinson from the Mail. It's one of the best pieces of copy I've ever written. You can write whatever you want from me. We're publishing it. It's coming out tomorrow and I should have kept it. And the reason I say that is not to blow smoke up my own ass. But working in magazines is like being in an abusive relationship. You are always told you you are never smart enough, thin enough, posh enough, prison enough, rich enough. You're just never enough. And if you don't like your job and you're not prepared to do it for pennies, then there are a million other girls that will do your job for you.

You don't have to work for a living because they live with the bank of mum and dad.

Exactly. And that was it.

And then you're in the mail.

And then I'm in the mail. And then I was then poached to go to Marie Claire Health and Beauty, which was a big magazine at the time. And I was offered the editorship of that. And I just thought I don't want to do that. I like, I like being self employed, I like writing, I like investigative journalism. So then I went back to the mill, then I was poached by hello. Then I built up the beauty department of hello. And then I left and became her influencer.

Nadine Baggott.

Yeah.

Which I have to say is my favorite ever. You know this about me. My favorite ever. Tweet at Christmas time. The pose fairy tale of New York. So you know the controversial line where they say the F word.

Someone one of my lovely gay followers.

One of her lovely gay followers dubbed you scumbag, you maggot. I'm Nadine Baggott and it is absolute genius.

Genius.

It is.

Every year I did get it.

Every year it comes out and it's one of my favorite things. Fantastic. How was it going from? Because where are you from originally?

Born in Teddington, which sounds very posh, but my parents moved to Yateley because at the time it was really rough and the schools were rubbish. Yateley in. So you missed that completely on the Hampshire, Surrey, Berkshire borders.

Because I always have it in my head that you're northern and you're not.

My dad was.

Yeah. There's something I've got a bit of A, yeah, there's something Northern soul about me. But you, how'd you go from that to hello magazine? Which you were there for like 75 years, right?

18 years at hello, I was poached because the then editor of hello magazine, a woman, brilliant woman called Maggie Coomey. And these were the days when hello magazine had like, was hello 3 million readers a week. And she said, I love what you do in the mail. I just want you to do it for us here. We'll pay you more money, it'll be regular, it'll be guaranteed. And then I built it up from a single page to a five page section and started in celebrities.

Didn't you?

Yeah. And that was the secret. Because to this day, one of the reasons that you and I. Well, you're a brand founder and a genius one. But one of the reasons I'm self employed is because I am unemployable. I can't go in an office and play the game. I can't sit in endless meetings with people.

My lot laugh but I always say, is it like I've said to you before, is it a decision or a discussion? If it's a discussion and ultimately I make the decision, I don't need to be there.

I don't need to be there. The last time I was in a really big meeting at hello and they were all chatting about an issue and I just slammed my hand down on the table after two hours and went, I think we need a point of action here. We just need to get out. Can we, can we decide we're going to do this, this and this and then get out. And they all looked at me like, I just can't, I can't.

In the early days, what was it like being on the. Because I think of the early, before influencers. So before blogs, actually before Instagram and TikTok, there was blogs. Before blogs, there were magazines and the magazines are still there, but it's a very different world. But when you were there, they were at their height.

Yeah, it was the most glamorous world that a working class girl could ever, without any obvious talents like I can't sing, I can't dance, I can't act, what can I do? That is the most glamorous thing I can imagine is I can travel the.

World and do press trips with big beauty brands. Who will take me to. Yeah, reel them off.

Everywhere around the world. Brazil, Mustique, Paris, obviously, France, Italy, everywhere. I traveled the world. Tokyo, business class. Lived so beyond my means, I can never tell you because brands Always picked up the bill at the end of the day. And the funny thing is, is the TR trip was never the point. You never created any content, no pictures, nothing from the trip. You literally just went to the lab, met the R D person, met the perfumer, met whoever, whatever, the makeup artist, Laura Mercier, Bobby Brown, Pat McGrath, you know, all the hairdressers and stuff like that. You interviewed them, you took the notes back and then wrote the feature.

It's just not done like that anymore.

No, nothing is done like that.

Because we're talking then about. It's not even the Holy Trinity. It was like the holy Disciples, wasn't it? Because there's you, newbie. I mean, if you think about the old girls, and I say that respectfully as an old girl myself, but you guys were a different level of like, there would be a press trip and then there'd be. When we came along as bloggers in like 2009, 2010, there would be the real press, which was you lot, and then there'd be something they do for us. I mean, it was literally. And then somewhere along the way, it shifted. Magazine sales went down, magazines sadly closed. Then they started obviously conglomerating them. So you've got people that we know now, we've known for years, working across.

Four or five titles, magazines, seven titles.

And then influencers come up. I was luckily caught in the middle because I was always treated. I wasn't sort of feared like, you know, I think a lot of the journalists feared this up and coming world, blogging and journalism influences. And I was always kind of managed to hide in the middle and be like, oh, that's not me, that's them over there. But then when this influencing world came up and then they started getting on these trips, I was sitting in the middle going, well, this is a new world order.

Do you ever remember going in the early days, going on a trip and we'd be there for a supper, whatever. We'd be, I don't know, one of the Soho, Babington or something like that. There'd be a whole table of influences and the whole table of journalists and none of them would speak to each other.

Speak to each other? Yeah.

And I think so strange a because journalists had had smoke blown up their asses so they thought they were really important. But also I think the smart ones knew that that was end of days over there. And then the really smart ones went.

I'm going over there, I'm going over there.

So there was only three or four of us that ever Made the leap. And it still blows my mind to this day that they cannot see that the really smart people have a foot in both camps. They just do. They just do.

You have to. To survive, surely.

Yeah. Well, I mean, as a. You know, journalists are paid appallingly. The perks of the job is you get the nice trip, but you're paid, you know, an average wage.

I remember a few years ago, and it wasn't that long ago, and a job was advertised on a magazine, but you were horrible. We would know. And it was like 35,000pounds a year.

That's a standard.

This is for a health and beauty editor. Editor. This is like not. This isn't an intern or. And I remember thinking, jesus, no wonder these girls all look the same, sound the same, have the same friends. Because you have to be wealthy. To a point.

Yeah.

Posh wealthy, able to sustain yourself without a salary.

Yeah. So I would say that the average person on a magazine now is paid exactly the same as they were 15 or 16 years ago. And then when I segued back into writing for the Times again, and segued back into doing television again, it was exactly the same amount of money as I was paid when I'd previously done it four or five years ago. Nothing has gone up because, again, you still work on this principle that if you don't want to do it, there are a million other people that will do it.

Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it, bringing our wild and wonderful Glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you, promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys, with exclusive on stage skincare demos, Entertaining Q and as and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons, ME live, and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets now@caroline hirons.com and secure your spot so you have beauty without the bs.

Yeah.

What? Where'd that title come from? For those that don't know, I'm sure most people listening do. And what BS winds you up the most about our industry? And I feel like I should caveat that with we don't have all day.

No, I. I genuinely don't know where Beauty without the BS came from. I remember going into A meeting at Gleam and they said, we want you to write a book. And I was like, don't make me write anymore. I've been writing my entire life and Caroline's just had a really successful book. Don't make me recreate that. I can't do it. I can't do it. And they're like, but Caroline's hugely successful. And I went, yeah, but she's Caroline. And then I'm like, she's done the ultimate skincare book. What can I do? And I was like, I know what I think I'll do a myth busting book and I'll call it Beauty without the bs. And it was only about four or five years ago, by the way. Still have not delivered on the book.

I was about to say, no, what have I missed? Why, why am I not having this, like, brain fog where I remember, because.

Genuinely, Caroline, when you've written three and a half thousand words a week for 18 years, you're still, I've got PTSD, right? I just, to me, can't sit and do it. I just can't do it. And you'll still say to me, it is the hardest thing you ever did.

And you've got three kids and a.

Brand writing a book, right? Anyway, so what happened was I then said to the really cool girl at Gleam that used to write run the publishing division, I want to call it Beauty without the bs. And she went, we'll never stop that in Sainsbury's. And I said, if I can't call it that, I'm not interested. Which was just an excuse. So I didn't have to write it. So I don't know where it came from. And the biggest thing that drives me mad is clean beauty, obviously 100%. I just can't do the fear mongering in beauty. I cannot do people deliberately being fed misinformation and then regurgitating it. Or, and you can call out, like famous people and influencers that might not be scientifically literate, but then the brands that should be scientifically literate and then the formulating chemists that then have to formulate these ridiculous new rules. Beauty is so heavily regulated, it is safe. Please, the world is not out to get you. Stop the conspiracy theorists. What are you going to do? Buy clean beauty and vote Trump? It's just, it doesn't, none of it makes any sense to me.

I always, I always say it's not a great business model poisoning your customer because you don't tend to come back.

And I always say I'M you know, I've interviewed so many formulating chemists. They have children and husbands and wives, and they're not out to get anybody. It's crazy. It's like the big pharma, what we would have the big beauty company. It's madness. It drives me crazy. And if you were to look in my makeup bag, you would find things made by Bobby Brown that were discontinued 10 years ago. Praise be to parabens. Praise be, please.

Praise be.

Praise be.

Praise be. How do we feel? I'm just gonna throw this one in there. It's not actually on my list, but while we're talking about it, how do we feel about the current situation around spf? I think the active encouragement of trying.

To get people to stop using it, Stop using it. Now this. I'm really kind of nuanced about spf. I'm not incredibly strict. I don't think if you don't want to use it, you have to use an SPF 50 every single day. I think we have to realize, and I think this is really interesting with the research coming out of Anthony Young at King's, who had did all the original UVA UVB studies. I think if you're using an SPF because you don't want your skin to age or to show any signs of aging, you will need to use an SPF 50 every single day. Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Even if you sit by a window. If, however, you're using it to prevent skin cancer, you don't need an SPF 50 every single day.

Yeah.

In the UK, we barely get enough sunlight. UV index is like our UV index. So think what you want from it. If you want to prevent skin cancer, then use it when the UVB index is fairly high, so you don't have to use it for three or four months of the year. And yes, you can layer SPFs. You can use a moisturizer with an SPF. Your dedicated SPF makeup with an SPF. The best SPF is the one you use the whole time. Technically, you should layer them up. However, the one bit of advice I would give to myself at the age of 20 is just use your SPF because then I wouldn't have to go and have loads of laser and work and stuff like this. And you genuinely will not see that sun damage until you go through a hormonal fluctuation. So, for example, when you're pregnant or you're breastfeeding, you're on the pill, and for me, postmenopausal, and when you're menopausal, essentially seeing the damage I did when I was Ava's age in the south of France in a white thong bikini, desperately trying to lose my virginity at the age of 18. Try being 511 with no boobs. You can't give it away, trust me. It's true. With the local surf instructor wearing my Ombre Solaire oil and I got so badly sun damaged that one day we were sitting around a campfire. By the way, I came back a virgin in case my mum's listening. It is true. And I went like that and my whole forehead just came out full fitness. It was just. And that's what I'm seeing now, come out in my face. And when you're 20, you think you're going to live forever. You never think you're going to get older.

Just by the pirates, there's nothing happening. And then you get to our age and it just starts to. Starts appearing, things go south, things come off, things grow. I mean, it's astounding, isn't it? Don't you love getting older?

Yeah, getting older is not for wimps, trust me.

It's really not for wimps. I mean, I said. I remember saying early on in a video I did with Sam and Nick where I just famously said, it just came out, just. Aging is a privilege that everyone gets.

Yeah.

I still feel the same way. I am, however, a lot more tired these days.

Yeah, Aging is a weird dichotomy of an incredible privilege. And when you get to our age, you've lost people really young and you know that they would give anything to, you know, not be in that accident, not be unwell, whatever happened. And they died really young. But by the same token, it's not for wimps, like, buckle up people, if you don't. I remember joining hello. And this beautiful woman came down the stairs who was going to be my assistant and she's still beautiful today. And she just turned 30 and I think I probably joined hello when I was about 40. And she came down the stairs and they went, oh, this is Katie. And she said, oh, I'm a bit miserable, I've just turned 30. And I went, if you hate being 30, try being 40 and if you hate being 40, try being 50. Like just come to terms with it. Right. You just got to make the most of it.

Do you think I love. I love my age more now than I ever have?

Yes.

I love being 55.

Yeah. But can I have it without the.

Wrinkles and the stretch marks it's doing to my body?

Yeah.

But I love I wouldn't, I wouldn't. When people say, oh, if you could go back in time, and I'm like, no, I wouldn't go back in time.

I always say I would go back in time. But can I have the brain I've got now? If I could brain my 21 year old body.

Oh, no, we'd be a force to be recognized.

Watch out, fellas, watch out, watch out.

Then you would lose your virginity in south of France.

Yes, I would. So I so would. And I just think now, obviously you and I have had a bonding moment recently over your mum and my mum and I just think that if you hang around with enough people who are older than you and, and that experience of them becoming unwell and stuff like that, I reckon you would go back. If I said to my mum, what year, what lifetime, what year would you like to go back to? She'd probably say mid-50s. So I think the secret of being appreciative of your age is to hang around with people of all different ages because then you put things into perspective and that's what age gives you, it gives you perspective.

Perspective is a, a fine thing, it's priceless. How do you find being. Because when we go on these sort of trips now, you and I are.

Invariably, you're going to ask me how I feel.

Oh, how do you find it being the older, the oldest? We are the eldest states women of the group. Most of the time it's you and I hanging on for dear life like it's just us baggers.

Yeah.

How do you find it when you're. Because I don't compare myself to the younger people. I find it quite, I find it quite interesting. I don't really go, God, I wish I could. I never look at an influencer and think, I wish I could do that or I wish I was that or I never do that. But when you're on those trips, it's a different world, isn't it? It's a different world to the one that we inhabit because. And they're fantastic at the job. This isn't a shade thing against influence, they're fantastic at their job. But it said, it's a whole different job. It's completely. I just don't know if I could do it the way they do it.

Oh, I wouldn't recommend if Ava came to me and went, I've decided I'm not going to be a hugely successful TikTok, I'm going to be a journalist. I go, I think twice about that now. The world is not the same as it once was. And so therefore I can't miss the world the way it once was. But whenever I go on a trip and then we suddenly DM each other and we go, are you going to be on that trip? There's this sigh of relief that I've got somebody my gener and if it's you or if it's Sally, and obviously Sally is that much younger than me, there's just somebody that speaks my language and that. That shorthand that we have at our generation or just an eyebrow. Yeah. Also I feel that, and this is really controversial, I think that the beauty industry needs every new generation of gullible young people to feed on the industry and to say this actually does it and oh, this is the first stackable whatever. And oh, I've never seen that before. And you're like, yeah, it's been around 30 years.

It's interesting though, because there's also something in you and I share something else, which is you, me, Sally. There's a group of us, basically anyone, like an Edwina, an Inga. If we are not invited on a trip, then it's not a science based trip, it's a marketing trip. If we're not invited on the trip or, and you get this as well as I do, if we're not sent something, and we're always sent something but without the information and we have to go and find the information so that people are hiding the Inkey list from us, they're embarrassed to send us the marketing materials. That to me is such a big red flag that any, any fear of FOMO in the early days, you might say, oh, I'd like to do that. You're just like, I don't want to be on that trip. And I've seen it recently, there's a big trip. Is it still going on or is it finished?

I think it must have finished by now.

I feel like it's been going on. There was a whole group of people who are not skincare experts being put in front of people who are not skincare experts repeating marketing jargon to said group, which then makes it onto social media as fact. And we all sort of DM sharing it. How can they say this? Why is no one saying this isn't how it is? Because everyone in the audience is a makeup person, an influencer.

But I'll be really honest with you, even when I was a young journalist and I think of some of the things that I might have written in the past, for example, you would go on an SPF launch. And it would be, here's for your summer holiday. Here's what to take on holiday. Like you, you, Nobody believes that they're being lied to or they're being soft soaped or they're being told a particular spin on something and where your 27 or 28, you don't go into a presentation and think that a brand is lying to you. It's only when you become older and you have perspective and you're suddenly like, what's on the x and Y axis? No, you can't produce a graph with no X and Y axis saying what that is. And then there's a little bit underneath that says brands that say clinical trials when they mean consumer trials. And underneath it goes asterisks tested on three people. They just decided whether they liked it or not. That's not. And I've dealt, I've dealt with PRs and I've said they go, that's got clinical trials. And I go, send them to me. And I go, that's a consumer trial. And it's just their opinion. And you know, a tensiometer is not a particularly big piece of equipment to buy. Do me a favor here. It's. Yeah, there's a lot of soft soaping in beauty and I think it's a pity because actually I genuinely believe skincare products work. I think they're better than they've ever been. I think the state of the industry is better than it's ever been. I think makeup is incredible. I think there's been a real democratization, thanks to Brandon in this industry. Whether it's good or bad. There's been a real revolution in the last five or six years. I think high street skincare. I think skincare's never been better. I think it's never been more efficacious. But I think the soft soaping does it a disservice from the big companies.

In particular and the big companies that do it.

It's the big, I mean, little companies do it. They're their little clean companies do it as well. Oh, yeah. I was on a trip last year and they did. Here are our launches for the next six months. And they launched the infamous Eva Longoria piece of toast. Put some SPF on, put it in a toaster, it doesn't burn. And everybody goes, ooh, ooh.

And you go.

And I just walked up and I went, you can't say that that's a lie. That's not the biomechanical mechanism, biochemical mechanism of how an SPF works.

That's not UVA and uvb.

It doesn't make any sense. And I said, and also I've seen this being used by hair companies to say that, you know, hair protectors work. Okay, if your hair protector works, put your hair protector on your finger. Now stick your finger in between the straightening plates of a ghd. That's not how it works. Like your SPF works. We know it works. Stop some marketing and in fact, the company that produced that had the best SPFs on the market billions into their SPFs. But don't try and then sell it to a group of tiktokers with scientific disinformation. You're better than that. You're better than the Gap. What's that movie? You know the one I mean, don't you?

No.

Crazy Stupid Love. And all I want to scream is, you're better than the Gap.

I love Crazy Stupid Love.

I love that. It's one of my all time favorite movies.

Oh, it's fantastic. The ends, the whole end scene is like a Greek tragedy play.

It's brilliant.

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[Caroline Hirons]

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[Nadine Baggott]

What's been the biggest joy of being in the industry? Because I know when we're together, it's easy for us because we don't really have anyone who's comparable to Moan to, I suppose.

No, absolutely.

But what's been the biggest joy?

The women in the industry.

Yeah.

I love my people in the industry. My friends are all from the industry. I've got two friends from university who I adore and we get together once every couple of years. One of them lives in Australia, though, so I don't get to see her that much. Genuinely, the friendships I've made in this industry and some of my best friends are PRs. And we're not sort of, you know.

The talking shop all day.

Yeah, yeah. And the influencers and the warmth and the encouragement. You just mentioned Sam and Nick. I mean, you know, I wouldn't have signed to gleam without Sam and Nick. And they didn't really know me from Adam and they supported me. And I remember going to the first ever Gleam party. And seeing you and thinking, God, a grown up, grown up. And I just think, yeah, I can still walk into a room of those old school editors, people like Newbie and stuff like that, who used to be on a bazaar and they went to Porter and stuff like that. And we just have that shorthand that is just priceless and a shared experience. We've all grown up together.

I remember going into Gleam when I signed to Gleam and said, yeah, this is all well and good, but you need Baggott. And they were like, yes, yes, we've been told that we need to speak to Nadine Baggart.

Who is. Who the hell is this Baggot?

I was like, you need Baggot. I mean, I would agree. I think that I was asked the other day about, you know, the. The boring thing about work life mix and all of that. And I'm like, well, I don't really see it like that because this isn't my work. It's what I do. So I have family and then I have what I do. And all of the great friends I've made are because of what I do. It's not like you. I have a couple of girlfriends from being a kid, you know, that I've known since I was 10. Teenagers. And then I have everyone else I know, which is literally everyone else that I'm still in touch with all the time.

I did a panel recently, one of those, I'm not remotely plinky, plonky and wellnessy. I'm just not right.

Don't try and balance and wellnessy.

Don't try and balance my chakras. And we were on a panel when Lisa Snowden was there and they were all talking about their work life balance and how it was really important for their mental health. And somebody said to me, how's your work life balance, Dean? And I went, I don't have one. I said, I love what I do. I said, you can call me or email me virtually any time of the day and I'll get back to you and I'll go like, so this morning will email me or the Times will email me. I'm like, yeah, I'll do it, no problem. Whatever. Yeah, fine. I love it. It's just really, really interesting and interesting and exciting and we're incredibly privileged to do it.

Really. I mean, it's just immense.

Yeah.

I didn't think I'd get to the point at 55 where I'd be like, really enjoying what I do.

I've never known you do Anything you don't enjoy, though.

I mean, that's a fair comment.

I remember meeting you and one of the. You ever said to me, me having come from a history of magazines where I'm like a meek little not. I'm not actually making person, but professionally, because you've been beaten down by so many editors. And you said to me, oh, for God's sake, Nadine, you need to grow a backbone, not a wishbone. And I was like, you're right. And I have absolutely. There should be a bracelet that said, what would Caroline Hirons do? And every so often, you just need to channel your inner Hirons and go, go, I'm better than that. Don't treat me like that.

Well, I'm glad that it was a positive thing that I said, because it could have gone anyway. Let's be honest, depending on the person. Let's do some beauty before there's a riot.

Go on.

Okay. I feel like I know where this one's gonna go, but what's been your biggest beauty or skincare disaster?

Sunbathing, without a doubt. Oh, also, can we talk about aesthetics? Right, okay.

That Nadine has a big bug to bear around aesthetics. She's about to get her tits out for the lads.

I am burnt IPL. And nobody wants to correct it. Until I met Dr. Dennis Gross's Courtney. Courtney. Is she. Is she, like the. She's his, like, clinical nurse.

Yeah.

Who said that she can treat it. Nobody wants to treat her.

And she was so chilled.

She was like, oh, yeah, I do that the whole time. I'll do a red pass. I'll do a blue pass. We'll be fine. And I was like, I love you, aesthetic.

Let's go on to aesthetics.

Because I just.

Other people's disasters rather than your own.

Well, no, because that is my biggest disaster. And actually my legs, but it wasn't your fault. Were also burnt by IPL years ago. And now it's encouraged, those little white spots that you get when you're older. But, yeah, being burnt or being badly treated by an aesthetic clinic, I won't even say a doctor or a nurse. And I think if they're doing that.

To me, what are they doing to.

What are they doing to the consumer? And I have to say, I think one of the most interesting things to happen in the last 10 years is aesthetics. I love Botox. I haven't had it for over a year, but I think it's brilliant. I think filler in the right hands is amazing. But I think 90% of esthetic clinics are charlatans and they're just out to grab your cash and it bugs me so much.

So where do you think we're going to go being serious with? Because, you know, there's like we're at a point in the industry where the legislation is going to come in. Especially now that.

Praise be.

Since we started recording this pod, the mother of five has died in Cheltenham after having the bbl. Right. So because she's died and it was so public for the people who don't know, we were at a point with the last government where they were going to bring in legislation that you had to be over a certain level, trained before you could do anything invasive. Then there was a whole roundtable and discussions about what invasive actually means, which is still going on. There is a general rule of thumb that you have to be medical to do xyz. Whereas the reality is, and I do think that's fair in a lot of cases. But the reality is a lot of the people who've been doing this for years, technically on paper, may not be able to do it after the legislation. They are far more qualified and trained than a MD who isn't a GP or a dermatologist. They've just done their basic medical training. Not to take away from that and say it's easy. But that doesn't mean they've been trained in aesthetics. Having MD after your name doesn't mean you're an aesthetic doctor. And you and I have had many a conversation about the amount of doctors who go through the NHS training system, drop it like a hot brick when they graduate and then go into aesthetic straight away. Thoughts and feelings on a postcard, please.

I think it's wishful thinking to think that any legislation is going to come in when the government have got too many other really important things. I think they've got. Rachel Reeves has got a massive black hole to economic black hole to fill. There are just. There are more pressing matters and I think the legislation is going to be four or five years down the line. You're going to need a subsequent, you're going to need a. A two term government to be able to get the backlog of the staff and then push through. And I think the first thing that needs to be done is the surgical side of it and then the non invasive stuff will come next. I just know from my personal experience that I've been burnt twice with IPL machines. I've also had great IPL that worked really well. Both clinics absolutely 100% categorically denied that. I'd been burnt. I've had things like, you know, muscle tightening and micro needling. That's done absolutely nothing. Now, I come from the position of being an old school journalist. I will test something and if it doesn't work, I'll just keep quiet about it. I won't then go out and go, this is rubbish, it didn't work. And this is the first time I've openly spoken about my burnt chest. And I notice I haven't mentioned the clinic because I'm a good old respectful journalist. But I think that the legislation that would stop this is so nuanced and so difficult to do that I think essentially the other. The government are going to go, we haven't got time to do this. And it's going to fall under the remit of the same department that do the nhs. And let's be honest, that needs fixing first. Right, Yeah. I mean, it's a difficult one. It's a difficult one.

Have you ever had Botox fhila by someone who was not medically qualified?

Absolutely not. No.

Would you?

Never. So Botox has to be delivered by a healthcare practitioner. So doctor, nurse, pharmacist, somebody like that.

Dentist.

Dentist. Filler can be administered by anybody, but technically you're only supposed to be able to buy it if you have a clinic and you have a doctor prescribing doctor. But we all know that you can get it.

We all know it happens.

Yeah, absolutely. And I know lots of people who are really big on Instagram and TikTok who are essentially trained beauty therapists. And it's not that they can't do good filler, but if you have an anaphylactic shock, they don't know how to treat you. That's the problem.

That's.

That's the problem.

That's the difference. Because I get asked a lot, obviously.

I mean, I've had bad work done by really big doct, Right. I've had the old Spock Botox and you're like, wait, what?

Having to get filler dissolved and the person's left the country.

Yeah. Wouldn't fly back from Germany not naming names.

No, no need. Because everyone will know now.

Great.

But it's difficult, right, because I. I always get a lot of beauty therapists who I do. They. A lot of them see me as their head girl and I love that and I would never take it.

You're the Hattie Jakes.

I am Hattie Jakes. I'm the matron of beauty therapists.

This.

But of course, some of them do this. Do the injectables. And they won't get insured by certain places that I'm insured by because I would never. And it's, it's exactly that. I'm not saying that you aren't trained and you don't know what you're doing, but I am saying that you don't know how to bring that person back if they have something horrific or catastrophic happen to them in your treatment room.

And also, why would you want that?

Yeah, why would you want.

Yeah.

And I think proof in the pudding of the Cheltenham disaster recently is like, I don't know how you, how do you get there? How do you assume that going for that in a, literally a back room shed is what it looked like? It's not to be trifled with. Anything that's invasive, you have to take it seriously. Right. No.

The perfect case in point. When I had the liquid facelift all those years ago in a hotel room, I learned my lesson. Shouldn't be in a hotel room, should be in a clinic. Should be in a decent, I mean.

Anywhere where there's champagne.

And I don't care who that person says they treat. No, that's wrong. And you learn by your mistakes. Aging is the sense of perspective. Once you've been there, don't do it.

You're like, knock yourself out. It's not for me.

Yeah, right.

Let's do some bits that. Are you okay? What's your current skincare routine?

A nice rinse off water based cleanser in the morning, a vitamin C. This morning I put on two vitamin C serums. Then I put on a peptide sort of jelly serum and then put on a moisturizer. Then didn't put on SPF because it's quite dark out.

I didn't today. It's literally dark out there. It's really raining a bit ago.

And then when I go home tonight, I'll use a rinse off cream cleanser with a microfiber cloth. You're a flannel girl. I'm a microfiber cloth person. And then I'll go straight in with a retinal. And then I'll put another hydrating moisturizer on the top. That's pretty much it.

We're all very similar these days. It's interesting because there's so much.

When we did our little chat with your little fluffy mic. The only difference, I mean there are two differences between you and I call.

It the little fluffy mic chat.

The only difference between you and I is I think you love essences and Waters more than I do.

I need them more than.

You're so good at looking after your body. And I am so neglectful of my body. Ladies and gentlemen, one day, if you get the chance, just stroke your fingers down. Caroline, where the hell is going? She has the softest, smoothest skin in the world. And every time she sees me, she goes, body moisturizer.

I do not do that. That's not true. I would never do that.

You did it in the front of your car once while we were driving back from the Cotswolds. And she was right. Literal lizard body, honestly.

Well, you know, there's something you can do for that, Nadine.

I know there is, and I know and I write about it. I just don't do it. I fall into bed and I've done my face care and I grab my hormones and I'm like, do I really have to put that 40% urea on my heels again?

Don't do that at night. I do it in the morning. I couldn't do it. I couldn't do my body at night. I do it in the morning after I showered.

Yeah. And I can't bear getting dressed with body products on, so I have to do it at night.

But it's not that. We'll talk. Okay, what is your Buy it for Life product? So if you're going. And I'm going to give you shops, if you're going into a space nk, what would you buy? Always, forever in a day. And this is assuming you're not being sent it.

You.

You're a customer.

I probably wouldn't shop in space nk.

Nadine, there is something in space nk that you're going to love. Viv is in space nk. Like, our friends are in space nk. Work with me here. I'm in space Nk.

Nadine, I genuinely, genuinely. If I lost my job tomorrow, I probably would shop in one of the really posh boots, which is the sort of halfway house.

I'm gonna ask you that.

Okay. I tell you what I love in space nk. I love the Naturium range.

Right.

So I probably. Of course you do. Of course.

It's never been a brand. No brand has ever screamed your name or more.

And people. When people say to me, would you launch a product range? And I have been approached to launch a product range ages ago. And, you know, we would never have been in competition because I would obviously been that Sally's like, they got the really cheap and you've got the middle market. And I'd have been sitting in between there and Then Susan came along and I just think. I think you're beginning to launch a few too many products. Sorry, Susan. It's a lot, but that for me is the sweet spot. Right. Superdrug I would probably do. And I know you're not going to like this. A little bit of jupy, sort of a bit of revolution stroke. And I also love their vitamin E range as well. Their hot cloth cleanser is really nice, I think.

I love Superdrug. I don't love that range. I don't know why. Just don't.

The vitamin E. I loved it because, you know, basically they created it as a dupe for Las Vegas and polish, obviously. I quite like that.

Boots. What are you buying in boots?

Boots is my homeland. This is where I would actually buy everything.

It's your home planet.

I would probably buy a little bit of. Of La Roche Posay, a little bit of Cerave, a little bit of Bioma, a little bit of bubble, little bit that. I mean, you would buy bubbles straight across. Yeah, that bouncy moisturizer is gorgeous. You know that, that there's. So you go through all the stuff at the front and then you've got.

All the noise at the front and.

Then you've got that aisle of whatever they call it. They call it sort of dermatological. Dermatological skincare. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely love the future. A new peptide one. That's. That's me. All my SPFs along there. That's my heartland, sort of clinical, slightly boring, not so sexy skincare that I love works, though. So, yeah, it works.

Favorite smell of a beauty product.

I tend not to wear any fragranced products only because I suffer from perioral dermatitis. I would say something really freaky like I like the smell of sea fruit because it smells like fried bacon. And I'm quite fine. I'm fine with that. That doesn't bother me. You and I have chatted about this because you are that whole school. Oh, wait, wait, wait. How do you do this? That. And you're all sensorial and lux and gorgeous and lush. Really. And I'm basically. Slap it on. Hope it works. Tomorrow I'll wake up and look like Margot Robbie. I don't get pleasure from my skincare.

I can't with that. That upsets me so much. I can't on that.

It's work.

I'm gonna say a phrase.

Go on.

I want you to take it the way that, you know I mean it.

Never offended by anything you say.

You would be if I said manifestation so I'm not going to say that.

So don't balance my chakras. If you ever send out one of your skins. Ross. Packaging with a man a set of manifestation cards.

You know, it's time.

And a crystal.

Come and visit me with a pillow.

I'll come out.

Okay. That's a very old school saying, by the way. Don't be offended. Nadine and I don't come with a trigger. Warning. Favorite self care activity. Now, by this I don't necessarily mean.

Beauty on the sofa with the cats. Watching a box set. Currently halfway through Slow horses. Getting halfway through heaven. Slow horses. Because I can't watch them. I cannot watch them week by week. I have to watch.

I haven't done so horses.

You know what I'd really like to see? You, me and Gary Oldman fragrancing him up in space and caper as that character because you know he's supposed to smell. They won't let him in the car.

I haven't seen it yet. Oh, it's on my list.

It is genius.

I say exactly.

You haven't even watched the first.

No, I haven't done it. I'm waiting. I'm gonna wait till Christmas time because I'm taking like I'm three.

I'm jealous. You can watch all three series.

Three weeks, Nadine.

It's.

I'm doing three weeks.

Brilliant.

So that's your favorite at the moment. But I'm the same. Mine involves sofa.

Yeah.

A fire sofa.

Blanket.

The blanket. This is where we're different, though. I don't have the cats, but I have babies.

Yeah, of course.

And a stack of magazines.

Oh, you see, I have not.

This is where we are purchased more.

Than two or three issues of a magazine since I left. And can I say to anybody out there, right, okay. You're the only person keeping the magazine world alive. Before subscriptions, digital subscriptions, we would go on trips and you'd be like one arm would be hanging to the ground where you'd got every magazine under the sun.

Yeah, don't let me lose. And seriously, if you lose me the hello Review, I'm gonna be in WH.

Smith's the best thing in the world, bar none. I'm telling you, when I worked on hello.

Give us the insider.

Everybody but the editor who now doesn't work there anymore. So I can say that Worship the ground you walked on and agreed with every single word you said. And it was only the editor that was a bit upset. Everybody.

I'm gonna have to do one. I'm gonna have to do one. In honor of your episode coming out, I'm gonna have to do one.

And if you don't remember, we need new. One of Caroline's followers made her a bingo story.

We need a new hello. Bingo.

It was brilliant because. No, I bought one for my mum when we flew to Ireland. My mum always loved hello. Never bought it. I had to buy it for her and give it to her. And she went through it and I literally, as I was flicking through, I.

Was thinking, my bingo.

I'm missing something. I'm missing the voice in my head going, somebody would never heard of.

So that started because I read hello magazine from the very beginning. From the very beginning, I was obsessed with hello magazine. When was it first out? Like 84.

Five six. Five six. Yes.

I've been in there since the trenches. And so I felt justified.

I feel you're the only person that stopped the downfall of magazines happening at least a decade earlier than it did.

So it became. I remember looking through it and thinking, it's just so formulaic these days. And I was looking through, thinking, and I saw. I saw a. A version, the Spanish version, the Hola.

Hola.

And I thought, oh, my God, it's the same thing. It's the same thing.

That's where most of the celebrities nobody's ever heard of came from. Buy them in and just translate it.

So then it just became this thing, right? So I'd open hello, and it would be the first interviewers with someone you've never heard of. And then if they got more than eight pages, I would congratulate their PR and say, your PR needs a pay rise. And then. And then it was. And it was always someone incredibly wealthy.

Stonkingly, like, more. Yeah, yeah.

Just my summer house. And then it's Picassos everywhere. And you're just like, behave yourself with.

Some wrinkly old man.

What attracted you to the billionaire Paul Daniels? And then it was, you know, at the time, it was the Queen, Meghan and Harry, Kate Middleton. And then you got bonus points for if Posh and Bex were in it together. A christening.

Yes.

A wedding.

Yeah.

Points were taken away if there was a divorce because they very rarely report on divorces. And then it was when you got to the back section. I think that's why the team liked it. It. Because it was always food you would never eat, which is the recipe you say, oh, look, food you would never eat. And it would be like cauliflower with purple sprouting broccoli wrapped in. And you'd be like, no one is gonna make this, never mind eat it. But when it got to the beauty Pages and Sam McKnight is on the wall path with this at the moment, they never credited the writers. And I knew it was like people like Charlotte Jolly and still is. Yeah. I think.

Yeah.

She took over from me and I would go.

Absorbed my job. Yeah.

And I would just be like, like. So who wrote this then? The fairies? Because I don't see any writers being credited. Maybe hello could actually. No. And that. That's the way it went on. But then, yeah, someone did make me a hello. Bingo.

It was brilliant.

Maybe I'll bring it back. Maybe we'll do a resurrection of hello Bingo. Especially now that the editor that really did not like me is gone.

That's all I'm saying. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So we've done self care. We're both lying on the sofa watching DVDs.

Absolutely.

Okay. If you can do just one thing in your beauty routine for the rest of your life, what's it going to be?

Oh, one. I can't imagine. Not cleansing. I can't imagine. Not cleansing. That's just disgusting.

No, there's just no need.

That's like saying, don't clean your teeth or wash your hair. I can't bear it. I can't bear being grubby.

No.

I hate the feeling of being grubby.

No. Like we're always well turned out. Well turned out.

We always have our nails done. Always have our hair done. Yeah.

Okay. You can only wear one item of makeup for the rest of your life. What is it?

Eyeliner.

Really?

Oh, yeah. I love a liner. Love a smoky eyeliner.

Just eyeliner.

Yeah, just eyeliner.

And yet I wouldn't think of eyeliner.

What would you wear?

Blusher, please. Otherwise I'd be dead. I've got no color in my face. Mascara, maybe, so my eyes don't look like two piss holes in the snow.

Yeah, yeah. Maybe mascara will be. Maybe mascara, actually. And then I sort of smudge it in the base of the lash.

Give it a bit of a Claudia. Well, that's a good shout. Okay, trends.

Go on.

I mean, it screams our name, doesn't it? Trends. Best and worst of recent times.

Do think that the JK trend has been good for the beauty industry. But then I tell them what JK is so Japanese Korean skincare. Because I don't like heavy unguent products, so I don't particularly like oils. I don't particularly like rich creams. So I do love that influence of the gel cream sort of technology which came out of Japan and Korea, that. That makes sense to me and I love that the worst trends would be young people using overly active skincare. I just don't get it. In fact, just full stop, you know, I just don't get young people worrying about aging. When you're in your 20s, you should be in the south of France trying to get a shag. I don't. I mean, I don't regret any of that for a second. You should be sleeping in your makeup and rolling out of bed the next day and almost straight to work. Straight. Almost a little bit. Still drunk and sort of thinking, please, God, don't, boss, don't ask me to do anything. That's what your 20s are for. It's a rite of passage. Don't spend your nights in worrying about getting older because it's going to happen eventually anyway, if you're lucky.

Yeah, I just. You gave me a flashback to a night after a copper ball. I mean, it's got to be 15, 16 years ago.

And can I say, the journalists used to disappear really early and the retail people.

Retail people really went for it. We got ha. Murdered. And I remember sitting at my desk and everyone was equally as drunk. I was still drunk.

Whereabouts? Space.

No, no, no, no, no. This is after space. This is George Hammer.

Oh, right.

And I'm sitting at my desk and my feet are up. And I remember at one point I put my head back and I could feel myself. And I went and I looked and everyone was just like, it's okay, we're the same. And we all had to, like, leave and go. We were all out of the building by one, absolutely wrecked. I couldn't do that these days.

I remember the time as a journalist to leave was when everybody got up on the stage and started dancing.

When they got on the dance floor.

And you're sneaking off really quickly and then essentially, that's me. Now, if you went to the shop floor of any space. NK or Harvey Nichols or Harrods.

Harrods. John Lewis. The John Lewis lot and the QVC lot.

Yeah, absolute.

I mean, they.

Animals.

Animals. I was going to say they got lessons from Johnny Depp. Like animals. But so fun to watch because they all get dolled up. I mean. Yeah. I mean, hammered isn't the word. I don't. I don't.

Every sequin sewn on by hand, heels.

Off on the side of the floor. So, yeah, dance.

You don't want to light a cigarette around them. The whole room.

Whole room will go up and smile.

Lnet Fumes Gourmand Fragrances.

Overrated and underrated.

In terms of beauty, what's the most.

Overrated sort of release of recent times?

Oh, Jones Road Miracle Bomb. Take me out and shoot me now. I don't care. It's the most disgusting product ever created. I just don't get it. Okay, so why would you put something thick and tacky on your face where your hair goes like this and you have to peel it off? So sorry, Bobby. Love you.

For those who missed that, it was, oh, Jones Road Miracle Bomb. Take me out and shoot me now. Why would you rather put that on your face? Yeah. Okay, great. I mean, that's pretty subtle, but marketing.

But she makes the best liners. That woman knows how to source a liner in Germany.

Marketing.

Oh, you weren't talking about products.

No, I am talking about products. No, I'm saying that. That. That brand in particular and that product, it's the marketing.

Yeah.

Because I don't know anyone who uses it more than once. No, I don't know anyone Al bought it and said, what is that? What is this?

What is this?

Why did I buy this?

What?

No, but no, marketing.

It makes no sense. But I know Bobby, actually, and she has chronically dry skin. So sort of Sally Hughes ichthyosis type dry skin. So I get. If you use any of her skincare, it's all unbelievably rich. And I don't like the skincare. The original Bobby Brown skincare. So I get that you might like that balm, but no way. What? Crazy question.

I mean, I can't believe I even thought for a minute you might not answer that question. Anything underrated, where you champion it and you think, why has no one picked up on this fantastic thing?

What do I love? That's underrated.

The thing is, once we talk about it, though, it's not underrated anymore. That's the thing.

One thing you and I have in common is we've got a massive love for the original Corel range. I love the original Corel Mist. Yeah. And for me, the Curelle Melting Cleanser. And obviously, as one of your followers found out the other day, for me, a Dove unscented solid cleansing bar. Stick it in the shower, wash your bits and pits with it.

Bits and pits. But it's not going on my face.

Oh, no, I don't wash my face with it. But bits and pits. I love it. Absolutely.

Holy trinity. I call it Pit. Pit. Fanny.

Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting about going into an expensive hotel is I Can't use fragrance soaps.

That's asking for thrush.

Yeah.

Like, I couldn't use anything in a hotel.

Aesop. I couldn't use Elemis. I couldn't use Cowshed Aromatherapy. Aromatherapy Associates. Oh, my God.

Armpits. Lovely.

No for Jay. Yeah. No way. No way. So I always fly with an unscented solid super fatty cleanser because I have to wash my bits. Yeah. And the hardest thing to find is a really good soap dish. Really? Yeah. A really good one that drains away and isn't sort of plastic and nasty and not. I don't mean one that you put on the side. That's lovely. I mean one. A travel one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, well, that kind of ended where I. I wasn't sure it was gonna end, but I'm very grateful that it did. Do you have a burning question for me which I always find very entertaining with you? I'm slightly terrified.

Yes.

It could go anywhere. Right, go on.

Would you ever be tempted to have cosmetic surgery? And what would you be tempted to have? Because I'm really open about the fact.

I've had a bleph before because.

And I've had a lower bleph. And we had a bonding moment over that as well.

I had my eyes done. I want to say it was eight years ago.

Because yours was medical and mine was cosmetic. Well, no, I mean, you're less vain than me, right?

No, I don't think so. I found the picture. Picture of what they removed. And it was basically my lacrimal gland, which is, what if people don't follow me regularly and they see this bulging thing in my eye? They go, what's that bump on your eye? And I'm like, it's literally my tear duct. What do you mean to do? So they. They've protruded again through the muscle. So I need to have it done again. And when they do that, I'm not going to say, oh, just do that and don't do a nip and a tuck. Of course I'm going to say, your.

Upper eyes are amazing. You've got really good deep set eyes.

But it really needs to go in again because it's the only thing I see in pictures now. Now it's the first thing I see. And when I'm doing my makeup, I have to kind of try and do an eyeshadow colored skin colored eyeshadow to try and push it back.

Yeah.

Which doesn't always work. And I think that's why I got. Remember my the RuPaul Lashes stage.

I went, yeah.

I mean, it was horrendous. Why none of you told me? I don't know. Jim tried to tell me every time I did it.

I don't think you need any upper eye surgery, apart from your glands.

Yeah.

They push it back in and I'm getting a bit squeamish.

They'll push it back in, then they'll stitch it shut. So I think.

And how do they do that?

They just cut muscle and in and then stitch.

So they'll cut here? Yeah, It'll be like, I genuinely don't think you need any skin T. But.

I would have that done. But I wouldn't have plastic surgery on my face. No.

You wouldn't have a facelift?

Oh, God, no. I'd be terrified.

Come back in five years time, ladies and gentlemen.

I'd be.

I'm going to look like the Bride of Will. Oh, yes. When I watch things like the Real Housewives of Orange County.

Yeah, they do.

Look, the thing is, I will own it and I will tell you about it. And I look at people like Tamara Judge and I'm like, oh, hello.

There are some people. So you and I both know a lot of people. The thing is, when you know Facialist, which I do, and plastics.

Would you ever have a boob lift? Because how many boob reductions have we seen that? Everybody loves them. They will get their boobs. I mean, I haven't got boobs, so. But they get their boobs out left, right.

I'm not that bothered. I just hoist them in and shake them up and pull them up and hoist it and I'm fine. I don't really care that much. To me, my boobs have done what they needed to do. Got me a man, fed four kids. Happy days.

He's very cute as well. Can I just say.

What is your husband. Oh, thanks very much. He'll love that. And so I don't really. And also, Jim's always been very like. He's always been like, if you ever get your lips done, I'm literally divorcing you. Yeah. And I'm like, well, I've never. I like my lip. I've got my mum's top. No, you don't think I had something done? I haven't. They're my lips. And he was like, I'll know. You know, I'll know because I'll be able to. To. I'll be able to tell. And I'm like, what? I've never said I want my lips done. What are you talking about? It's because he sees things. We watch things on tv and he'll.

Go, you only see bad work. You only see bad work. But I'm looking at people like Sharon Stone going, she looks pretty good.

But what I was going to say was we all, during COVID people came out after Covid looking 20 years younger and we were like, jesus Christ. Some people have flown private plane to LA and got it done, knowing that there's never going to be any evidence of it. Yeah, they're going to get it all done. All power to them, if that's what they want to do. It would just make life a lot easier for the average person on the street, especially women have. Just be honest, say that you've had it done.

That's what annoys me.

Be Cher.

Yeah.

No one disrespects Cher.

I mean, clearly that's a perfect case in point. If I could find Cher, her surgeon.

How much was she, like, 80, 78? 80.

I think she might be nearly 80. Swear she looks younger than you and I. Oh, easily. I want to see her in real life and the body. I don't want to lift her hair and check for the.

Scott, I don't think you're going to.

Be able to check. She looks phenomenal. No, but.

No, I would not. I don't think I'd have a facelift. I think I'd be too scared. I'm scared enough about getting my eyes done. But I think they do it now without putting you under. I want to be out of it, but they don't actually have to do, like. So they'll cut here, right, just inside the lid.

Yeah. I don't think you'll need this bit done, I think, you know.

Well, hopefully it's pretty simple, but last time the bruising was bad. It took me weeks to.

I know she showed me the picture, but also it's for you. It's having the time off. I mean, that's a big amount of time off, right?

Have to be. No, no. I mean, like Mariam Zamani does it. And she said her downtime for her is under a week with her.

Wow.

She was showing me, like. Because she does it. And then people will send her, you know, send me the pick each day. And by day four or five, they're out at work wearing makeup.

Wow.

Yeah, it's very. I mean, that kind of thing is getting better and better and better.

Yeah, that.

But I don't think you need a facelift anyway. Why would you?

Oh, no, not yet.

Yeah. But do you. Would you really go through that when you're older?

Do I sell an influencer when I'm 70?

Oh my God.

And you suddenly call me back and you go looking fresh, Nadine, I'll be.

Like, where did you go?

Of course you would. Straight into my dms. Right?

Well, I don't see. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

That's the only question I've got.

Because there is no need.

Because I know for you. I mean, yeah, I'm not. And I'm not anti. No judgment. I don't care. People do whatever they do what you want.

And don't pretend you haven't done anything.

That's what annoys me is people that pretend they don't have it.

Well, when you do get it done, I'll turn up with a camera. Happy days.

Until then, I'll have my own camera. Trust me. Yeah. Always a content.

Christopher will be there doing both of us. Yeah, Christopher. Until then. Thanks, mate.

My pleasure.

What a joy. I mean, I knew you would come out with some bangers, but we've got some humdingers.

Sorry, Bobby.

You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our Listeners Questions episode, so make sure you tune in. Send your questions for me and my guest to answer to podcast@caroline hirons.com until then, I'm glad we had this chat. New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we had this chat is produced by Wall to Wall Media.

[Caroline Hirons]

As humans, we're naturally driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search search match with Indeed. When I was looking to hire someone, it was so slow and overwhelming. I wish I had used Indeed. If you need to hire, you need. Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busy work. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 93% of employees employers agree Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podcast. That's Indeed.com podcast. Terms and conditions apply. As humans, we're naturally driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search. Match with Indeed. When I was looking to hire someone, it was so slow and overwhelming. I wish I had used Indeed. If you need to hire, you need Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed Data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Ditch the busywork. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening, and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. Percent of employers agree Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed. Com podcast. That's indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply.