S2 Ep17: Davinia Taylor

Summary

Episode Summary: S2 Ep17 – Divinia Taylor on Biohacking, Hormonal Health, and Parenting

In this episode of Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons, host Caroline Hirons engages in a candid and insightful conversation with Divinia Taylor, a renowned biohacking expert and the accidental CEO of the multimillion-pound supplement company, Will Powders. Divinia shares her transformative journey from a 1990s actress and socialite to a leading figure in the biohacking industry, offering listeners a deep dive into personal health, hormonal optimization, and effective parenting strategies amidst personal challenges.

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1. Introduction to Divinia Taylor

[00:00] Caroline Hirons

"My guest this week first captured public attention in the 90s as an actress and socialite who was part of the infamous Primrose Hill set... She is Divinia Taylor."

Caroline introduces Divinia, highlighting her shift from the limelight of acting to a passion-driven career in biohacking and nutritional optimization. Divinia recounts her early days in acting and how her interests pivoted toward health and wellness.

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2. From Acting to Biohacking

[01:38] Divinia Taylor

"Takes me back."

Divinia reflects on her time in the acting scene, particularly her stint on Hollyoaks in the mid-90s. She discusses the chaotic environment of the entertainment industry and her desire to transition into a more meaningful and health-focused career.

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3. Personal Struggles: Alcohol and ADHD

Divinia opens up about her battles with alcohol and ADHD. She explains how hormonal changes, particularly around pregnancy and perimenopause, exacerbated her drinking habits, leading to long-term sobriety challenges.

[05:50] Divinia Taylor

"I started getting pregnant. Well, trying at 28... because I've gone past the invisible line, the point of no return."

She emphasizes the irreversible changes that certain life events can impose, using the metaphor:

"You can't unpickle a gherkin back into a cucumber."

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4. Coping Mechanisms and Sobriety

Divinia shares her coping mechanisms during turmoil, such as leveraging anger as a motivator to maintain sobriety. She highlights the importance of mental strength and resilience in overcoming addiction.

[14:26] Divinia Taylor

"And it can... a woman who's angry, let her roar."

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5. Navigating Parenting with ADHD

Raising four children while managing ADHD presents unique challenges for Divinia. She discusses strategies to maintain order, such as organizing routines and utilizing biohacking techniques to support both her and her children’s well-being.

[21:10] Divinia Taylor

"Our house is feral."

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6. The Birth of Will Powders

Frustrated by the lack of quality supplements, Divinia co-founded Will Powders. She details the company's mission to provide clean, effective supplements that support mental and physical health without the excessive additives found in mainstream products.

[45:38] Divinia Taylor

"Our protein is bone broth... tastes like Mr. Whippy."

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7. Biohacking Techniques and Supplements

Divinia delves into specific biohacking techniques that have significantly improved her health:

• Collagen Supplements: Essential for gut health and overall well-being.
• MCT Oil and Ketones: Used to enhance brain function and energy levels.
• Dietary Adjustments: Emphasizing low-carb, high-fat diets to manage blood sugar and reduce cravings.

[35:16] Divinia Taylor

"Reviewed bone broth... our protein is bone broth."

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8. Managing Perimenopause through Diet and Lifestyle

Divinia discusses how dietary and lifestyle changes can alleviate perimenopause symptoms. She shares her experiences with hormone detoxification and the role of specific supplements in balancing hormones.

[32:30] Divinia Taylor

"Going through perimenopause... added more magnesium so my sleep was better."

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9. Addressing Common Health Myths

The conversation touches on prevalent health misconceptions, such as the overemphasis on fiber for digestive health. Divinia advocates for a balanced approach that includes probiotics and quality proteins to maintain gut integrity.

[70:14] Divinia Taylor

"Fiber has been overemphasized... amino acids are the ones that heal the gut."

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10. Practical Parenting Tips Amidst Health Challenges

Divinia provides practical advice for parents dealing with ADHD and hormonal imbalances, emphasizing the importance of structure, dietary management, and open communication with children about their own health needs.

[53:16] Divinia Taylor

"My kid... chronic clinical insomnia... his whole thing is his nutrition."

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11. The Importance of Prevention in Managing Pigmentation

Caroline and Divinia discuss pigmentation issues, particularly melasma, and the critical role of prevention through sun protection (SPF) and hormone management.

[72:41] Caroline Hirons

"The biggest thing you do for it is SPF."

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12. Final Thoughts and Takeaways

The episode concludes with Divinia emphasizing the necessity of taking control of one’s health through informed choices and biohacking practices. She underlines the significance of clean supplementation and a disciplined approach to diet and lifestyle for overall well-being.

[75:03] Divinia Taylor

"We're quite mental. What could go wrong?"

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Notable Quotes

• Divinia Taylor [14:26]: "A woman who's angry, let her roar."
• Divinia Taylor [35:16]: "Our protein is bone broth... tastes like Mr. Whippy."
• Caroline Hirons [72:41]: "The biggest thing you do for it is SPF."
• Divinia Taylor [47:31]: "White knuckling is the horridest, time-consuming, energy-sapping condition you can be in."

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Conclusion

This episode offers a profound exploration of Divinia Taylor’s journey through personal struggles and her emergence as a biohacking leader. Listeners gain valuable insights into managing hormonal health, overcoming addiction, and implementing effective biohacking strategies to enhance both personal and familial well-being. Divinia’s authentic storytelling and practical advice make this episode a must-listen for anyone interested in holistic health and the power of biohacking.

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For more insights and discussions, tune in to Glad We Had This Chat every Monday and Wednesday on your preferred podcast platform. Don’t forget to send your questions to [e-mail] for a chance to be featured in future episodes.

Transcript

[Caroline Hirons]

There are a few things in life that just keep on giving for 3.99amonth. A floppy fuel station sarnie. One small cup of bougie. Overpriced coffee? I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly. A wealth of fresh, expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the Skin Rocks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness, it's all in one pocket. Friendly place on the Skinbox app with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just 3.99amonth, $34.99 a year. Or get a special discount via the podcast with code CHPOD to get £10 off your annual subscription. Welcome to Glad we had this chat with me, Caroline Hirons. It's your one stop shop for all things skincare, beauty and beyond. My guest this week first captured public attention in the 90s as an actress and socialite who was part of the infamous Primrose Hill set. Her path, however, took a huge transformational turn for when she discovered her passion for nutrition and hormone optimization and she is now considered one of the most esteemed biohacking experts in the country. She's also the accidental CEO of the multi million pound supplement business, Will Powders. It's Divinia Taylor.

[Divinia Taylor]

Takes me back.

[Caroline Hirons]

Takes you back to Hollyoaks and stuff.

[Divinia Taylor]

My first job. Okay, so I am.

[Caroline Hirons]

Hi, Divinity Taylor. Welcome to the pod. Carry on.

[Divinia Taylor]

Hi. Hi.

[Caroline Hirons]

Hi.

[Divinia Taylor]

Let me think. I was just. Well, we were just talking about kids and stuff and my eldest, who's like 17 now. And that's when I decided to walk out of school and I was doing like business, economics, psychology and performing arts. And then I went, I'm gonna go and be an actor. And my mum and dad were like, yeah, fucking what? And then I just. So 17. I was so 30 years ago. I'm 47 now.

[Caroline Hirons]

You did Hollyoaks 30 years ago?

[Divinia Taylor]

30 years ago.

[Caroline Hirons]

I didn't even know that.

[Divinia Taylor]

I know. I mean, it was ridiculous. I was thinking about it on a run the other day. And it was like, can you imagine? You've got all these like. Cause we were like 17 up to, like, 20.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Getting paid and, like, not working normal hours in Liverpool.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, wow.

[Divinia Taylor]

And obviously you're not far from Manchester. And it was mental.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, even the cameramen, the directors, everyone was just wrecked. Yes. It was like, you know, just like, oh, God, who's in tomorrow? God, it is tomorrow.

[Caroline Hirons]

So it's like, what, late 80s, early 90s?

[Divinia Taylor]

So mid-90s. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So where'd you go from that to moving to London?

[Divinia Taylor]

It was a natural progression, you know, I didn't want to be in. It was like a kid's drama and you weren't allowed to swear and stuff. And because it was on a Sunday, you couldn't say, God. You had to say, gosh. And it just really annoyed me. The omnibus is on a Sunday. Yeah. And I wanted to, like, stretch my wings and become a thespian, which of course I didn't do because I focused more on bring the party, the after party, as opposed to the pre production. So. Yeah. But no, I mean, London was great. I mean, it was great. It was the 90s. And then it went into the naughties. I don't like saying the naughties. It sounds naughty on it. But anyway. Yeah. So I was down there by the age of 20, moved to Vauxhall and it really. I took it up a gear. Well, everyone did. Everyone took it up a gear back then. It was wild.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it was like, oh, my God. Every night, Saturday night.

[Caroline Hirons]

I didn't do any of that. I was just Julie Andrews. Moved to London when I was 17 again from up north, Warrington.

[Divinia Taylor]

Literally spitting distance from me. From Wigan.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. And so, I mean, they literally were called, like, it'd be Warrington and Wigan. Like, that's the next step, that train.

[Divinia Taylor]

It is. It literally is. I. I will. I did it this morning and I shall be doing it on my return. Yes, yes. So salubrious as hell.

[Caroline Hirons]

Beautiful. Nice little laundry detergent factory.

[Divinia Taylor]

Gorgeous.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yes. And I moved to London when I was 17. Met Jim when I was 19. Was pregnant at 21. I had Ben at 22.

[Divinia Taylor]

Wow.

[Caroline Hirons]

Never done a drug in my life. I am Julie Andrews.

[Divinia Taylor]

Right, okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

Except for drink, obviously.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, I was. Well, I mean, my. My thing was, was white wine. If we're going to talk about my sort of, like, drug of choice, it was white wine. You could take. You put anything in front of me, but take my white wine off me. That was what got me. That was what got me yeah, not beer, white wine. And of course, obviously, if we ran out of that, we'd have vodka, but it was always white wine. Gave me the. Lit me the warm and fuzzies. Warm, fuzzy, little bit of. Yeah. Confidence, optimism. But, I mean, we'll go down into the alcohol bit.

[Caroline Hirons]

A bit.

[Divinia Taylor]

But London back then for me was next level. There was no mobile phones, no social media.

[Caroline Hirons]

No one didn't know what you were up to.

[Divinia Taylor]

No, I mean, God, I mean, Browns was still open. I mean, it was. It was fantastic. And for someone who's like, obviously from Wigan and, you know, not going to like the ritzy nightclub fashion photographers, you had thespians, you had all sorts of designers and it was obviously, it was very Cool Britannia back then as well, so.

[Caroline Hirons]

But how did you get into that set? Because you were part of that set, which I'm not really gonna focus on, but you come from up north, you move down here. How are you suddenly a part of that crew?

[Divinia Taylor]

I don't know. Because I'm just dead funny.

[Caroline Hirons]

So entertaining.

[Divinia Taylor]

I'm a hoot. I don't know. I suppose you just keep up, don't. I mean, what happens is when you. When you have that sort of mentality and I bet because you. You're quite intense as well. I mean, you. You pull into a little vortex and the ones who don't fit just disappear and they go home. But guess what? I'm still standing at 8 in the morning, day three.

[Caroline Hirons]

But, yeah, the idea of that.

[Divinia Taylor]

And the idea of that now gives me the eevee jeebies.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just totally.

[Divinia Taylor]

But, you know, 21.

[Caroline Hirons]

So it's all fun and games.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

When does it stop being fun and games?

[Divinia Taylor]

About 20. I think it turned on me at about 20, 27.

[Caroline Hirons]

And how old are you when you had Gray?

[Divinia Taylor]

That would be. I started getting pregnant. Well, trying at 28.

[Caroline Hirons]

Right.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, I think I'd always be a heavy drinker, but I think the messing around my hormones tipped me across that invisible line that nobody knows where it is.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And the thing with. Because I'm an alcoholic, right. And I always will be, because I've gone past the invisible line, the point of no return. Yeah. But there's a saying is you can't unpickle a gherkin back into a cucumber. I am well and truly a gherkin, even though I've not drank for, like, 16 years. It's. It's just the way it is. Like, you're all, I'll always be allergic to it. Like, you're always going to be allergic to peanuts. Yeah, I just have this allergy that if I have one, something happens, my hormones change and I have to have another one, be it immediately or the next day or the next day. And there's just no, there's no risk for me, there's no game.

[Caroline Hirons]

Quite soon.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, great. Yeah. Well, I had to.

[Caroline Hirons]

Was it Catalyst?

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. I mean that fast tracked me, otherwise I could have been pratting around with glass of wine here, glass of wine there. And for me, I've had all my 30s and my 40s sober and not many people have that, not many people caned it like I did in the 20s. And you can kind of repair when you're in your 20s.

[Caroline Hirons]

You go to work without sleep.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean it's busy, you go straight.

[Caroline Hirons]

I used to do that because when I moved to London I worked in hmb. Brilliant job to have music. So we had tickets to all the gigs. Like you say no social media. You'd go into the manager's office, there'd be tickets pinned to the wall and everyone knew who liked particular bands. You'd go to the after show party to feed yourself, save money. Because in those days there were massive big parties. You'd be like, stuff your face. And then you'd go straight back to work the next day.

[Divinia Taylor]

I got the train this morning and I'm like. Because I've not had my eight hours, I'm there snoring against the window like, awful. My own worst nightmare. Like, look at her dribbling middle aged.

[Caroline Hirons]

Woman who took you in hand. Or was it your own decision?

[Divinia Taylor]

My mum, my dad tried and he was, oh, God, bloody sick of this. But it was my mom. Of course she could say I was struggling, but I mean, there wasn't things out there that, you know, there was no postnatal depression, there was no hormones. I mean, I'd had ivf. Right. And if you think about how what.

[Caroline Hirons]

That does to your hormones.

[Divinia Taylor]

Exactly. And then at the end of it, obviously you've got all this artificial sort of estrogen pumping through you that will boost you. I mean it's creating life. And then all of a sudden you fall off a cliff and it'll happen to women who've not even had ivf. You fall off a cliff when it all drops, all those sex hormones drop. Another thing that drops is, is dopamine and serotonin. So you safe hormone serotonin and your confidence get up and go, hormone dopamine drops. And the one surviving hormone that will survive out of any Other hormone is cortisol. Yeah. It keeps you alive. It keeps you looking out for danger, but it keeps you alive. It's part of your immune system, but it also keeps you looking out for danger. And when that's up there, you are scared of your own shadow. Never mind a brand new life.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

You're like, oh, my God, I'm going to drop him. And you, of course you're not going to drop it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

But that's what's going on all the time. All the time until the end. You just have to have a drink to try and level it out so you can just come out of the. It's like an ongoing nightmare. Like there's a bus going to hit the pram. There's. I mean, it's all the freaking time, non stop. And it's like, I tell you what I liken it to when, when I found out my mum was dying of cancer and the hospital said, there's nothing more you can do. That sinking feeling.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Is what you get every day, every minute of the day. Maybe every five minutes when you're coming off alcohol or you've got postnatal depression, that, that feeling and it's like a hot.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's like.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's the dread and it's skin crawling and it's relentless and it doesn't stop. And the only thing that stops it is a glass of wine. And then of course that wears off, so you start feeling it come back. So you have to have another glass of wine. The trouble is, by the time you've had three glasses of wine, you're tipsy.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it's like, did no one ever think maybe test the hormones?

[Caroline Hirons]

No.

[Divinia Taylor]

Look at her history.

[Caroline Hirons]

Denise Walch says, you know. Yes, exactly what Denise Welch said. So she had severe postnatal depression. Clinical, where she was. She just basically went. She had a complete breakdown.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

She was happily married, they'd wanted the baby, they were both working actors. Her mum and dad were, you know, staying. They were all happy and they went out for a walk and shit. It happened while she was out for the walk. The lights went out and her mum, by the time they got back, her mum said, her mum said, you're right, love, I'm really worried about you. What are you talking about? But she said her mum was the one who went, no, this, this isn't right. They had to move in with her.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And then she did the same thing. She tried to do it with booze and coke until it got to the point where Lincoln, her now husband, and they both decided to stop together.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

But she says the same thing. It was only when they tested her hormones and she only had them done, you know, wasn't too long ago. And they said, the doctor literally said to her, I do not know how you are alive.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Your levels are on the floor.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I do not know how you've been functioning.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, it's. It's bizarre, isn't it? Because we give like. Like most of us in our generation, as soon as you're 14, you go on the pill. That's HRT for a little girl. You're putting them on hrt and it's not like it's not going to sort of regulate your period, it's hijacking your period, it's hijacking your body until you, like, start doing ivf, or until you need antidepressants or until you need metformin because your blood sugar's out of control.

[Caroline Hirons]

You get, oh, you're pregnant and you have a kid.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, this is it. But I mean. I mean, I was crap on the pill because I'm so adhd. I forget everything. I just like, realize and take five at once.

[Caroline Hirons]

I want to come back to the adhd. What did your mum say to you?

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, I mean, she was it just.

[Caroline Hirons]

More of a continued. I can't do this.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh, yeah. But as if I'm going to listen to that. No one's going to persuade me. You just literally become sick and tired of being sick and tired and it is because of the. It stops working and you know it, but you don't know how. So I. I mean, I've been into re like a rehab before in the UK and I. I could always exit. There was always a back door. I could always strategize my way out, manipulate my way out. I could always. I'd even hitchhike my way out. Not a problem. I can survive anywhere.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

So I went to South Africa. No passport, no phone, nothing, just. And at that point I was getting divorced.

[Caroline Hirons]

How long were you there for?

[Divinia Taylor]

3 months.

[Caroline Hirons]

Then you had the added pressure of the press.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, I mean that. Yeah. I suppose that's why I worry about social media, because when I was like, knocking around in that scene and I had, like an element of fame, but it was awkward for me because I'd, like, have awful stories about me in the News of the World or the Mirror or the Mail or whatever, but I wasn't famous. Famous enough to get a table somewhere swanky.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I had this stuck in the middle without a Good.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't even get the freebies, but my nan knows this about me. That's. Oh, it's awful. And what I mean is, by social media is, who gives a. If you're in the press? Because whoever. Like, if you're two people separated, you're not bothered about. It's. It's you, it's your immediate family. And that's what social media does for every single kid now has got the News of the World circle in them.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Be it frenemies.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Those, like nasty girls, nasty lads, you know, all of that. It's. They are in that position that I was in and, you know, that does worry me. That really does worry me because that is. I mean, maybe that's why they don't drink as much.

[Caroline Hirons]

Kids of today take much better care of themselves than we did. My generation and your generation shabby, weren't we? Much better. I mean, they go to the gym. I know all my kids go to the gym. Like, Jesus Christ didn't go to the gym. 54. I know that last three.

[Divinia Taylor]

Last ditch attempt.

[Caroline Hirons]

Literally three. When I step foot in a gym. 53. And my kids are like, I'll teach Mum. And like, no, no, that's not to work. It's easy for me to say no to you.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

If my trainer says do this, I'm going to moan, but I'm going to do it.

[Divinia Taylor]

And if you've got to pay for him as well, like, come on, I'm.

[Caroline Hirons]

Not going to not turn up, you know, like, sort this out.

[Divinia Taylor]

Exactly.

[Caroline Hirons]

So you will focus on that and come back to the adhd. So when you come back, what's your situation when you come back from South Africa? Clean head.

[Divinia Taylor]

No, because I mean, if you think about, you've only three months clean, so you've got to re. The trouble is, like with, with an alcoholic, when you relapse, you are actually sober when you reach for that first drink, and that is what you've got to change. You've got to change your whole mindset. I think what kept me sober. And a lot of people will say, no, you've got to be Zen. You've got to be, you know, all very spiritual and everything. Absolute rage. Got me through. There you go. Absolute anger. And you cannot literally. I think that for the next few years kept me sober as a judge because I was so incensed with the institutions, with the doctors, with the courts, with my ex.

[Caroline Hirons]

With your ex, yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

With the lawyers that I'm paying, paying, paying you Know, non stop. I was incensed.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And I. And I'm pleased that I'm a, you know, a feisty person because it kept me sober. If I'd have been a bit more gone, you know, and that's.

[Caroline Hirons]

Whatever. It doesn't matter because I'm never going to win.

[Divinia Taylor]

So I think any woman who's going through something, use anger. It's a superpower.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it can. It's the biggest motivator. There's nothing like a woman who's scorned, as we all know. And there's nothing more powerful than a mother. Mother who is angry. You know, you change the whole. You know, So I don't. I don't really adhere to. I mean, I'm a lot. I'm a lot calmer now, obviously, which.

[Caroline Hirons]

Is quite terrifying to those of us who only know this. Divinia.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

They come before the storm.

[Divinia Taylor]

But I mean, I think I've come through an awful lot on the back of rage and it's, you know, it's. It's a fascinating emotion and it shouldn't be dumbed down. If a woman's angry, let her roar. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I love an angry woman.

[Divinia Taylor]

I do.

[Caroline Hirons]

I. I just think we'd spend a lot of time, especially like my Gen X, and you're kind of on the cusp of Gen X. Millennial. But I think we were always taught to, like, be seen and not be heard and be ladylike and all of this. And so when I used to get really angry, my mom would be like, calm down, love.

[Divinia Taylor]

I'd be like, why? Why so angry?

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, my God.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, my mom was very quiet. Really? Sort of, yeah. But my dad's really feisty, really shouty and my mum used to go, oh, my God, I just can't be with you two. You two are just awful. And then we just go, yeah, that's the end of that. No, I didn't. Not with my mum. But my dad's got two. Two young boys. One's 12, one's 19.

[Caroline Hirons]

Right. So basically you were on your own.

[Divinia Taylor]

Basically, yeah. I was a complete only child. I mean. Yeah. And just nowhere to be seen how. Climbing out of windows.

[Caroline Hirons]

How did the ADHD without knowing you even had it? Because it wasn't a thing when we were kids. Right. You were just like a bit naughty or you couldn't focus or. It was always a whole thing.

[Divinia Taylor]

Class clown, scruffiest girl at school, never had a PE kit, forgot a lunchbox and never had the special, like, pound for, like, whatever. I forgot Everything. How I got through my exams, I don't know. Just probably adrenaline.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Like, I'm cramming, cramming the night. And there was no coursework back then. It was exams. I'm flabbergasted. I did it. But I think it was just adrenaline and fear because I was in quite a strict all girls school. They said, you do not come back for sixth form, by the way. You are a nightmare. Whatever.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm not going to. I'm gonna be on Holly, look.

[Divinia Taylor]

See you later. Whatevs. Oh, just a knob. Just a knob. Roll my skirt up. Oh, just. Just a textbook cliche.

[Caroline Hirons]

Maybe that' got four boys.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I used to like the boys and that's. God having a sense of humor. I'm surrounded by lads. It's headlocks, it's punching, it's all the mess. Yeah. I'm really messy as well, so. They're really messy and our house is always messy. But it plays havoc with my adhd because it's the noise.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

But we are really scruffy family and it's like I try and tidy up and it's hours in the kitchen and it's just as bad as when I walked in. I'm like, the effort. I'm exhausted and nothing is tidy. Every time I walk, I mean, I'm doing like a post or something on Instagram and I'm like, talking like, I do just.

[Caroline Hirons]

I love. I can always see you washing everywhere. I love it.

[Divinia Taylor]

But I'm looking at, like, that cupboard's open again. I'm like, it's me.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you know what I think the difference is? Here's my theory, right? The difference in how, because your success has come about with you sharing on.

[Divinia Taylor]

Socials, how scruffy I actually am.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no, I mean, like, being real. Yeah, being you, I think. Because two, if you didn't speak and we didn't know where you lived, right, and you had a wellness brand, you know, whatever you want to call it, we would think you were posh and from Surrey or Fulham. Right. But it's because you open your mouth and that Preston accent comes out and I immediately feel warm and cozy because that's where I was raised. And then you go, look at the state of this.

[Divinia Taylor]

Because it's true. Because imagine if I had to tidy up before I did a post. I wouldn't even post anything.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's just.

[Divinia Taylor]

Or I just have a corner.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's just the reality of. And you're also quite cheap, which I love.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

The Hair dye. Yeah, let's just focus on the hair.

[Divinia Taylor]

Which I did yesterday as I avoided bonfire night in my kitchen. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So you will literally just go and buy bleach.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And shove it on your head.

[Divinia Taylor]

Mom was a hairdresser. We've always had peroxide in the house. So if I had a sore throat, she made me gargle with peroxide. I mean, peroxide was the answer for everything.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like Big Fat Greek went in with the ones.

[Divinia Taylor]

Absolutely, absolutely. So I've never been scared. I mean, our house used to smell of perming solution because my grana come over, get a perm done and everything. So it was literally a mobile. So I'm not scared of color at all. I mean, I suppose if I want to live a non toxic life, it's probably the most toxic thing I have. But I'm not going grey. Sorry.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, sorry.

[Divinia Taylor]

I really liked coloring my hair.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Sometimes I go a bit darker, but I always go back to the skunk streaks. But like I live on bottom diabetes.

[Caroline Hirons]

The fact that you do that saves me a fortune. How much does it cost you?

[Divinia Taylor]

Seven quid. Fucking seven quid.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's brilliant.

[Divinia Taylor]

And I'm watching the news and I'm not in that awful hairdresser's mirror that makes you want to have a facelift. What is wrong with the lighting?

[Caroline Hirons]

I now. 6 hours now like that. You're like, if I'm going to the hairdressers now, I think, oh, God. You want to put makeup on. Yes, put makeup on. Because you either look like you've just dug up and you're in the coffin and they're fixing your hair for you. Yeah. Or you look like you take. They do your hair and you go, oh, not bad. I might take up the way you do it, but I've got too much gray. My whole head is gray. So I'd have to have the whole thing. It's just too much. You can just do a bit at the front and look all sorts of.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, I did the back as well. I mean, I think my granddad went gray really early. So I think I've inherited that and I think it's a copper deficiency and blah, blah, blah. I'm going to dig into it because this is getting ridiculous now because my hair grows so fast. But I mean, all that collagen and.

[Caroline Hirons]

Protein, baby, it is.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it really, it really does work.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I can attest because I started taking supplements and then when I moved onto yours and I was doubling up on the protein powders and the collagen powders. The hair growth is off the charts that I have to pluck my chin every day. Every day I'm like, there's another one.

[Divinia Taylor]

Jesus Christ.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just keep tweezers everywhere. Tweezers everywhere. Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it, Bringing our wild and wonderful glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you. Promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys with exclusive on stage skincare demos. Entertaining Q and as and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets [e-mail] and secure your spot. Foreign. Let's go back to how you get to where you are now because. So Gray's a baby. You go your age for five years, you get custody, then you have three other kids. Your kids between what, nine and 17? Nine and 18.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. So. So number one, 17. I number them. I know it sounds awful, but you can just. You can picture it then, can't you?

[Caroline Hirons]

You have to number them.

[Divinia Taylor]

You can picture them. So number one, 17, number two is 13. Number three is 11. And number four is just a nine.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which is why your house is feral.

[Divinia Taylor]

Which is why my house is feral. But also, I mean, I did a post the other day about the shoes.

[Caroline Hirons]

The shoes I shared because I always joked about that anyone tries to break into our house, they're going to break down on all the shoes.

[Divinia Taylor]

You're done, you'll fall over and you'll die, like I told you.

[Caroline Hirons]

So.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. Well, lock the door on your way out.

[Caroline Hirons]

Shoes everywhere.

[Divinia Taylor]

But at least taking the shoes off, it's a gesture, isn't it?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. I'm gonna take my shoes, I'm gonna throw them everywhere and get mud everywhere. But they're not on my feet.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh. I mean. Anyway, boys, bless them. They are my life and soul. But they are intense.

[Caroline Hirons]

But it's a lot.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's not four girls, which would be psychological warfare.

[Caroline Hirons]

Four girls. Anyone who has more than one daughter, I would tip my hat and bow. I don't know how you would do it. And us with four girls, we'd be in jail.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes. I mean, throttle them. I mean, how my mom cope with me. Yeah. It's Just awful. Just like. And they're 15, sulking and everything. We don't have sulking in our house. There's none of that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Boys don't really, really soft.

[Divinia Taylor]

No, no. I mean, there's a dead arm, there's a Chinese burn and then there's a. I've nicked you. Oh, he's gross.

[Caroline Hirons]

He's done this, you know, farting on.

[Divinia Taylor]

Their heads, all that.

[Caroline Hirons]

So life calms down.

[Divinia Taylor]

So life calms down. I got pregnant, I had number two. And then I met Matthew again. I'd known him since Manchester anyway, since we were like 19. Right, okay. And he was, he's a builder and he was doing some extension work in my mum's house. And then I said, oh, will you come? I was renting a new house because obviously I'd had the baby and everything. I needed to get a bigger flat. And I said, I'm fancy painting this flat. It was a rental. I want to paint it absolutely glossy black so it's almost reflective. Deep, deep black. And he's like, are you sure? You sure about that? I said, yeah. And it needs to be high gloss, like up, you know. And he's like, okay, fine. And then he's like painting it. He goes, well, I pity the fool who's got to take this off when you change rent, you know, when you move location. And it was him, he had to do it because by that time we were together and he had to do it for free. So he was like, this is a dickhead's job. And he's trying to get this paint off to get it back to white to its pre rental sort of condition. And then, yeah, Matthew and I are fabulous, you know, we are literally bit scruffy together, but peas in a pile.

[Caroline Hirons]

But it's very funny.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. And he's a really good sort of stepdad, you know, he's a great father of boys. Yeah, keys are. He's very sporty and so relaxed. I mean he's, he's like, Jim.

[Caroline Hirons]

Jim's. Yeah, Jim's horizontal.

[Divinia Taylor]

This, this is it. And I'm like, you're not like bothered about this? He's like, no.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm like. I'm like, hello.

[Divinia Taylor]

He's like, yeah, I think that's why it works then.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, Literally. So this is a funny story of Jim, right? Our son's getting married the morning of the wedding. I've got bridesmaids, my daughter in law, makeup artist, hair in the dining room. I've. I've been up since. I don't even Know if I remember, if I slept. I'm dressing gown ready, prepped rollers, like full scouts.

[Divinia Taylor]

Full scouts. Oh, I can see it and a lot.

[Caroline Hirons]

Having a curly blow. And so I'm like this. Jim hasn't surfaced. He gets up, he. I see him in the kitchen and it just like an apparition. He floats across to the kettle, he makes himself coffee and he keeps going. He goes to sit down in his TV room and I'm like, all I can hear is blow dryers, the girls chatting, the grandchildren are running around, right? And he just sits down, he gets his phone out. And I walked in, I went, what are you doing? And he knows when I'm in that because I'm standing over him looking down. What are you doing? And he went, oh, don't start. I'm just having my coffee. I went, oh, sorry, is it over? Is our son married? Has it happened? Did I miss it? I was like, delirious. The higher and the higher. And he went. And he went, hell, all right. And he stood up and he went, what then would you want me do? I went, I get. Literally gave you a list. You have a list. I gave you a L. Where's the list? Well, what list?

[Divinia Taylor]

I was.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I was like, I was the bridezilla. Of course I was the bridezilla. But that wedding happened because I nagged the. Out of my husband.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, I'm very much like that with Matthew when we go on holiday and he's got his. The passports and that's it.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can't. I know I have to have the passport.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, I mean, I'm like, I, I, I. That's the sort of thing I forget. But I'm like, I hate clothes, I hate packing, I hate all the shit. I hate. I hate airports and my kids that do the. The wheelie thing.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

So they're all three of them just, like, whizzing across T2 at Manchester to get the Malaga flight at 300 miles an hour. Just knocking into disabled people and everything, looking insane.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And then someone comes up to me, oh, I love your products. Do you want to calm?

[Caroline Hirons]

And I'm like, yeah, give me a car.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, I am so angst with them. I mean, I think it's the public thing, me and kids in public.

[Caroline Hirons]

But it's also adhd, because if you're a control freak.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you've got four. I had three kids. Four. Three boys. If you've got four boys. Just another level. Like, I love an airport when I'm on my Own. I'm never happy.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes, fabulous.

[Caroline Hirons]

When I'm arrested, I get there three hours early.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes, I do.

[Caroline Hirons]

I go for a mooch. I do a WH Smith. Get me mags. I do.

[Divinia Taylor]

I even get highlighters and stuff. Oh yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Stuff I don't need. But with the kids, I'm never more stressed than going to an airport, being in the airport, getting on the plane, getting off place, more stress than anything.

[Divinia Taylor]

And my kids always want the junk food. And obviously I don't like junk food because it's, it's, it's bad for them. And then you put them on a plane and they're like hyper and I'm like, why Matthew, did you get them a bag of family sized Haribo for them to inhale before they get on the plane? And now they're off. They're off. And we can't divide and conquer because I can't put a stranger with these lots. So it's now me. And I downloaded my Netflix. Forget it, Forget it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Shut up. So, okay, let's start on the junk.

[Divinia Taylor]

So yeah, as I said, I've got much karma. Much karma. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So how do you go from you got Matthew, you're four kids, the picture that you always show online.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

When was that taken? Because we both have, we will call it a before picture.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I happily call it my fat pictures.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

But we'll call it before. And I would say it's before I open my eyes.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh, absolutely. Well, I, that was just after my mum died, so that makes a lot of sense as usual. I mean I've always had a, I've got an addictive personality. Like I said, it was always wine. Wine is the devil. For me that, that is the gateway for, for everything disastrous to happen. However, a close second is carbohydrates.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And I don't mean like really good quality carburetors, veg and stuff. I'm talking about your white folding white food, like white folding bread, you know that basically elastic in it, that sort of stuff.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wet it and pull it.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. I mean you can really mold it and it just turns into glucose. It's, I mean, however, I didn't realize that there was a mechanism going on within my brain to do often with adhd having low dopamine.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Because that sort of, it's very, it's sugar. Basically. Carbohydrates are sugar. And I thought I was doing really well by having whole grains and you know, eating like six portions of grains a day like they said, and loads of salad and like Sort of polyunsaturated fat, like veg, vegetable oils and it's all low saturated. All this stuff I'm doing, but I couldn't stop doing it, if you know what I mean. There was no pause button.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

So it's like in the morning, it's like your granola or oran great fiber provider, which is just a bowl of sugar. Once it was. As soon as you mix something like all brand with saliva, it breaks down into glucose. So your blood sugar's going up, your dopamine's going up.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And me, who's got low dopamine anyway? I'm always seeking it. ADHD people often have. Always next. What's next?

[Caroline Hirons]

Always.

[Divinia Taylor]

That's why I forget stuff, that's. I forget to close the cupboard door because I've already moved on from that cupboard to another cupboard.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know, our poor teams live. And if I have to follow us around and just be like, where are they? Who knows? Look for the disturbance.

[Divinia Taylor]

I've not even got a desk in the office. I've not got a desk. I just wander around like some sort of.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, I moved my desk out of my own office because we needed the space and I call it the shop floor. So I'm on the main. I moved it onto the shop floor, which is the worst thing I could have done because I'm how easily distracted am I? And when people say, oh, look, a squirrel, it's not even that, it's, oh, look, a squirrel.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's not a squirrel.

[Caroline Hirons]

You. Well, you've always been a dickhead and then you're gone. It's just 25 minutes.

[Divinia Taylor]

25 minutes gone. 25 minutes, yeah. I'm so easily distracted, which goes back to must pay more attention in class. How I'm seeking something that's not boring.

[Caroline Hirons]

The only best bit about having the kids going through school is I didn't know I had adhd, but I knew when my kids were being told that they should pay more attention in class, that they weren't on their own. And I felt the same way and Jim did. And my kids would give the most eloquent reasons to their teachers of why they wouldn't pay attention. I thought, I can only be proud of that. I can only embrace this. They would say, well, if your lesson wasn't so boring, Miss, I'd pay attention. And I'd be like, that's not a problem for me, you're the teacher. I would be very respectful and I'd be like, oh, don't say that, dear. But See crops going, get in, son.

[Divinia Taylor]

Because it is boring. It's so boring. I don't know how it was sitting down. When I look at it, I mean.

[Caroline Hirons]

For eight hours, hours, I used to.

[Divinia Taylor]

Just sit on my leg and see if I could get it. So cramped always that it, like, you know, you get up and it was completely.

[Caroline Hirons]

Even when you're having fun, look at my legs.

[Divinia Taylor]

Something to do. I mean, I've completely switched off.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay, so Matthew, overweight mom.

[Divinia Taylor]

Okay, so Mum, we're back in the room. Boom. So Mum got breast cancer and she died. And I didn't know how to deal with that because my mood was so flat I couldn't reach for wine. And it was just constant grief, constant grief. So I'd go, oh, I tell you what, I'll make myself something today. I'll make myself a sandwich. And then there's a little bit of a uplift. You know, there's a little bit something to look forward to. And then. And then it kind of carried on like that, on and on and on until I kind of realized it was affecting my brain more than I noticed my body. Because it was only on that picture with me in a bikini that I see it. Because I used to dress really well for someone who was overweight.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

You know, I'd always wear black and baggy and. Yeah. You know, it's like. And my face didn't put it on too much, really. So basically I don't look at the mirror.

[Caroline Hirons]

How tall are you?

[Divinia Taylor]

I'm only five. Five. Yeah, But I mean, but like you. It was around the middle.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

You know, and it was like inflammation. It's not just fat, absolute inflammation. It is your body screaming out, so just we are a walking, talking, moving bruise and we are swollen.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it was. I would have carried on doing that because I went to the doctor and he said to me, have you ever thought of, like, having a calorie controlled diet and maybe doing some exercise like Dragon? He also said to me, well, it's because you've had so many kids. Silly me. Well, this is what happens to your metabolism when you have kizzema.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Divinia Taylor]

I tried some of the Irish families that when they had 15 children, they were still like that. Yeah, exactly. So it was all that, well, you are, you know, you're getting old. 35.

[Caroline Hirons]

Right. Okay.

[Divinia Taylor]

Do you know what I mean? No age at all, you know, so anyway, yeah, they said, you know, healthy eating. Plan low calorie and, you know, eat little and often and make sure it's whole grain not much meat, low fat, everything which was barking with my mental health because I need a lot of fat in my brains. I need fats and I need salts. I need electrolytes to spark up my brain to stop me from tootling around, getting bored and pratting around and doing something detrimental to myself. Be it overspending or do it, I don't know, whatever I feel like doing that's just like going on teemu or something and buying something wacky. Me having healthy mental nutrition in my brain stops me acting out.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it makes me productive and happy and satisfied. That for an addict feeling satisfied.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's freedom major. And also being able to be a parent.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Not just be there for yourself, be.

[Divinia Taylor]

There for your kids. Yeah. Because I'm not constantly. I mean even just a distraction of what we eat and what we're eating all the time, it's taking the attention from them as opposed to. Go on, show me your drawing. That can't make Edna Taylor. But I was very good. Very good.

[Caroline Hirons]

Show me your homework. I can't do it. I can't do it.

[Divinia Taylor]

Here we go. Pythagoras Thera, my old friend. So yeah. And that was a revelation. When I started feeding my brain the weight fell off. So for me it was my brainless. It was Matt, he says. I say it was me but it was really Matt. So I have to. Yeah. So he was like, you know, roundabout was almost 10 years ago like the biohacking bros started coming out in the States.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean they are dicks. They are dicks.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yes.

[Divinia Taylor]

But there was one guy who in particular he, he sparked off the imagination of Matt who was decide he's a bit like me. He's quite addicted to stuff, you know. So he decided he wanted to run the London marathon. So that's it. Now all the trainers, all the gear, I mean everything just came out. All his like, you know, limbering up, just mortifying. Middle aged man in like Christoph kicked off next level. But then he started reading about what Dave Asprey was doing over in America with this thing called a bulletproof coffee.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Now then I'd never had coffee. I missed the whole friends revolution cause I was too busy drinking wine. I didn't understand why people hanging out in coffee shops when they could be in pubs. I'm like so beige so. And also when I did have coffee it gave me anxiety.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

So it gave me the jitters. Now I didn't realize it's not the coffee that's doing that, it is the mold on the coffee that does that and it's my body reacting to it. That gives you the jitters. Yeah. I mean, if you do have moldy coffee, little you can put. I sell something called calm, which is an amino acid called L theanine that you can combine with shitty coffee. Just takes the edge off. You have a cool, calm energy rather than a jittery one. And it also stops insomnia. So I've always got comms because I don't know when I'm going to just have a coffee. But what I did, what I did was what this guy did was he mixed this coconut oil. And it's not just coconut oil, it's like an isolated part of a coconut oil. Now bear with me. It's a medium change triglyceride. So it's a very small amount of carbon atoms, eight carbon atoms. So it metabolizes really quickly. So what you do is you blend it in a proper blender with black coffee and it emulsifies into a cappuccino and it actually calms down any jittery feeling of caffeine, so helps you metabolize that. But the great thing about this mct, because we are told to stay away from saturated fat. This mct, right. Because it's such a small carbon structure, it bypasses the digestive system, it gets to the liver, I think, well, through the lymph system, it goes to the liver where it's converted into ketones. Now, ketones are an energy fuel for the brain. Right. I've been fueled on glucose all my life.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And all of a sudden, 70s, 80s. I mean, baby breast milk is ketogenic. But then we forget, we forget how to do it because we've got rice crackers, we've got weetabakes, we've got croissants, we've got whatever, we've got snack, snack, snack snacks that all the time. We are constantly glucose fueled. And my brain had become insulin resistant and I didn't know it. I had flatlined. And that's why they wanted to put me on antidepressants. I wasn't depressed, I was just under fueled.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

So this ketone and it works like in minutes?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's not okay. Take this pill and come back and see me in three months. No, three months. I've moved on. I probably moved house by then and probably got another kid. So no, you know, so. So this is because it's instant changed everything. Because I have no patience, clearly, because I've got adhd, so I needed that. And sometimes I still use it every single day. And sometime I take too much just to get a buzz, but I kind of like that. And I change my mood, and that's what I like to do. I'm in control of my mood.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

No longer have I got subliminal messaging going, go and have this snack. Go and have that snack. Because then that snack could lead into a glass of wine, you know, and then all bets are off for me. So I've got to take my mental health very seriously because I've seen the show that happens when it gets out of control.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And I know my enemy. My enemy is alcohol. But what the root to alcohol is having clarity and control up here.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And for me, going through the perimenopause, I see so many women coming into AA because of that.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's torture.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's torture. It's just an endless gloom, an endless.

[Caroline Hirons]

And time.

[Divinia Taylor]

Time bends and it's like, you know, I mean, I'm the worst patient. I had to have antibiotics through the week, which I don't like to do because the dog bit me. Whole long story, but I had to have antibiotics.

[Caroline Hirons]

Your dogs are mental.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes, they are. I mean, I know I say they're runaways and. No, I say the rescue dogs when we're walking down the street, and they're not. I have raised them. They are mine. They're my responsibility. I've had them since Pops. And I say, yeah, the rescue.

[Caroline Hirons]

The rescue.

[Divinia Taylor]

Behave. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they're like, no, they're not. I've seen you on Instagram. You've had them since they were that big. I am a shit mom. So she bit me just because of. She was fighting with her. Anyway, long story short, she bit me because she was scrapping with her brother, and I put my hand in the way, so I had to have antibiotics the next day. My mood, always awful. And thank God I only. I had an intravenous antibiotics. I didn't take it for a course because me without my mood, it just wipes you. And people don't realize antibiotics, it's going to mess with your mental health as well.

[Caroline Hirons]

So my before pictures are when I was perimenopausal. I was just. I just average size. Didn't really think about it much, you know, had two kids in my 20s, two kids in my 30s, which is very different. Yeah, having two kids in your 30s is so different from your 20s. Just. You just don't lose the weight as quick. You don't have as much energy, and perimenopause for me was the worst period of my life. I mean, I am much healthier now at 55 than I was from 40 to 53.

[Divinia Taylor]

Because it's a. It's a guessing game, isn't it?

[Caroline Hirons]

I had no idea what was going on with me. No one talked about perimenopause.

[Divinia Taylor]

No.

[Caroline Hirons]

No one talked about the relationship between what you eat and drink. And. And so we would drink red wine, I'd have crisps. And like you say, the mood, my mood was just flat. And I'm not a flat person. Not only am I a glass half full person, I'm like, the glass is half full and it's a great glass and who cares if piss is in it? It's a great piss.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, like.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, like, almost two. Like, having no warning signs of danger. Like too happy.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And so to go from that to just mate, just, like, mainline different indifference. And that's what I hate, indifference.

[Divinia Taylor]

Boredom is awful.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'd rather be annoyed.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh, yes, me too.

[Caroline Hirons]

Or super happy.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes, me too.

[Caroline Hirons]

Than indifferent. Indifferent to me is like a death.

[Divinia Taylor]

Terrific. That's why I don't like sulkers either. I'd rather have a row. Okay, I can't. I can't just do this for a.

[Caroline Hirons]

Minute because I feel like I might have met my special sister. So people who sulk. Victim mentality. And when I say victims, I don't mean people who have genuine reason to be ill or are victims. I mean, the woe is me off.

[Divinia Taylor]

Hate them. Energy vortex.

[Caroline Hirons]

Go away. You're draining me by just looking at me.

[Divinia Taylor]

I hate them.

[Caroline Hirons]

Sort your life out. I'm not your.

[Divinia Taylor]

Who has the patience for a sulk?

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, who has the time?

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean it. God, you're thinking that in a monologue. What are you thinking? Yeah, so I think that, you know, we don't have sulking in the house. It's like a huge box.

[Caroline Hirons]

And everyone moves on. You're all family. Here we are, folks. The most insanely efficacious, sensorial, luxurious cleansing balm in the world has landed. I don't need to tell you what it takes to put my name to a cleansing balm. And this one had one mother of a brief. The skin rocks. Cleansing balm is the best balm ever created and one I would choose every single time over anything I've ever used. Five rollercoaster years of fearless ambition, sky, high expectation, tears, triumphs and F bombs. No pressure then, but what a result. Undoubtedly my most anticipated product. This was by far the hardest to make. The texture and crunch that took four years to perfect its ability to decimate literally everything on your face. The R in a jar scent, the paperweight, heavy hot pink glass. I mean, literally everything I adore in a cleanser has been distilled into one glorious jar. And it is absolutely, absolutely spectacular. Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil. This barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support and help improve skin firmness, elasticity and hydration. There is simply nothing like it. It's £55. It's ready and waiting. And there is no DUP.

[Divinia Taylor]

Foreign.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're online. When does the biohacking right. Come more? Because I can't remember when I started following you. It was a long time ago.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, it was ages, ages, ages ago. Like about four people follow me. I think you were like the fifth.

[Caroline Hirons]

When does it. I would have heard the accent, gone on following us. But when does it become what it is now?

[Divinia Taylor]

Okay, well, it was. I. I just thought I was at the school gates and I'd started doing this biohacking, which means you're just hacking into your biology. So basically giving your brain really good F so you can come off all the junk food.

[Caroline Hirons]

So you could caveat this with. There are biohackers out there that are nuts.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh, they are.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's hard to cherry pick the stuff.

[Divinia Taylor]

It makes sense. I think, I think what resonates with you, I mean, something you can go. Yeah, yeah, I get that. Like getting outside in the morning and getting blue light makes sense because. Yeah, you do. I mean, I find myself now because our office is like, we're in a temporary office at the moment and it's like two windows back. Like we've got a window overlooking the window. And like it's. Oh, it makes, makes me feel claustrophobic. So I go outside. Yeah. And then that is. That actually works for me. Because your eyes give information to your brain to pump out certain hormones at what time of day it is.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Granted, up north it is always drizzly.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it's always about two, maybe four days.

[Caroline Hirons]

You still live there.

[Divinia Taylor]

I know.

[Caroline Hirons]

With your whole mindset.

[Divinia Taylor]

I know.

[Caroline Hirons]

But don't, don't, don't tell out of context. Love being up north. I never feel more. No.

[Divinia Taylor]

But I really noticed because I did 25 years in London and then I moved back during lockdown. And I think that's why we're very funny because otherwise we'd go mad. Well, we're Mad. Just going to Sainsbury's having a conversation. Well, bloody Alex. Seen state up weather.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Have you seen it? It's not. Stop. It's not letting up. I really kind of vibe with that now because I used to be in London, it's like, quick, quick, quick. But now I do have a chat and in booths and stuff and it's. It's always about the weather. Always, always.

[Caroline Hirons]

The weather does suck in that particular.

[Divinia Taylor]

I know. So we've got. It's almost like a sinking ship. There's a camaraderie of we're all gonna drown together. Let's have a final hurrah.

[Caroline Hirons]

You have to be.

[Divinia Taylor]

You end up having.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's also why. Because it does get dark. I have an absolute chemical in my brain aversion to the big light.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh.

[Caroline Hirons]

If you put a big light on and I. I will literally stop what I'm doing. It stops me in my tracks. It's like literally Superman, you know, with his. What's it called?

[Divinia Taylor]

Kryptonite.

[Caroline Hirons]

Kryptonite, yeah. My kryptonite is a big light. Put big lights on.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, I'm looking.

[Caroline Hirons]

Put the lamps on. The big light is to me, utter depression because it takes me back to coming home from school in the dark.

[Divinia Taylor]

Awful.

[Caroline Hirons]

Being at home with my brother, having to do homework, eating a bowl of cereal.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Watching Top of the Pops. And some of those memories are great.

[Divinia Taylor]

These are the peas. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Phone fame after.

[Divinia Taylor]

On the phone. On the bottom of the.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, my God, I need to watch that. And getting ready to press record on your video player that you've got with both hands. Can't rewind that. And so I have a. The big light for me, is that the trigger of trauma? But it is when it's glorious and sunny. That's why you notice it, because it's glorious.

[Divinia Taylor]

Unfortunately, I've got this mindset that when it's sunny, I actually think, instead of living in the moment, what a beautiful place I live in. Look at the rolling hills. This is amazing. All the fresh air and everything. I think it's going to rain tomorrow. I've got this pop up infrared sauna.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thing that you zip you in that sauna.

[Divinia Taylor]

I do it every day.

[Caroline Hirons]

It gives me endless entertainment.

[Divinia Taylor]

I do it every day.

[Caroline Hirons]

I see you there. I can just hear your head sticking out.

[Divinia Taylor]

I literally, when they finish the dinner, they go upstairs and they're playing or whatever and Matt normally puts them to bed. That's my time. So at like 9:00, I'm upstairs, I zip up this infrared sauna. And I put my programs on. At the moment I'm watching the Resident. It's utter. It's like 18 series, but 15 episodes per series. Utter American drivel. And I'm really into it. Matthew doesn't like it, so he won't disturb me. And I sit there for 45 minutes in my sauna. And I think that has saved my sanity throughout lockdown. Because that light. Because remember, saunas aren't just about heat. It's about the infrared light going into my cells. And it actually cheers me up. I look forward to that. Like a glass of wine. And I think, oh, I'm watching me terrible programs in my infrasta and I'm sweating. I can hear the kids going nuts downstairs. But I'm zipped up.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm not gonna come in. They're not coming.

[Divinia Taylor]

They come up shouting, mom. I'm like, would you want me to get out of here? Because I have no clothes on. Gross. And then they go downstairs again, you know, so. And that's my. And chica, the dog, she sits next to me. She watches equally shit trash TV as well. And that's my routine. And I have a cold shower and then my pajamas on up to here. Eye mask on, mouth thing. And I go to sleep. Matt's like, what?

[Caroline Hirons]

This wasn't. What did I marry?

[Divinia Taylor]

This wasn't advertised.

[Caroline Hirons]

So how did everything that you learned then become willpowers?

[Divinia Taylor]

It was because I couldn't find all these ingredients. So I wanted a really good collagen because collagen is like the building blocks for life, the amino acids. But I still wanted to do this. Might sound a bit techy for anyone who's like, just listening, but I hack my tea and coffee in the morning. So I put a teaspoon of collagen in there and I put a big tablespoon of this MCT powder in there. And I couldn't get that from anywhere in the uk.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And I just thought, well, if I'm doing it, other people might do it. So we just set up a little company. There's only like me ma and my mate doing it on the computer because I don't know how to work a computer. Another thing I missed while I was in the pub. The tech revolution. And yeah, we just started. And I just thought, well, what do I need? What do women need? What do families need? And it's willpower. We need willpower to be able to say no to these hyper palatable foods, these bliss Point foods, Nestle, Mars Co. And you know General Mills and all the big hitters or Unilever, Procter and Gamble, all these guys. I mean there's like five companies that own all the snack food in the world. I mean it's phenomenal their power. And it's like, how do we say no to that fa? We've been raised on it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

We've been exposed to it, we've been conditioned that the treats, that they're good for you. How do we say no to something that is designed to be addicting? And that's when I brought in, I turned the MCT oil because it was messy, into a powder.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And then that's, that's my Will powders. So I put that in and all of a sudden that noise, that addiction dampens down and I can go, actually while I'm in pret, I'll just have the egg. Which I did today, didn't I? I did that. So she said, do you want anything? I said I'll just have an egg.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'll have an egg pot, please. Stink everyone out.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes. High protein. So yeah. And it's just, I mean white knuckling, be it alcohol, be it gambling, be it food, be it drugs, but white knuckling is the horriblest, time consuming, energy sapping condition you can be in.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's so boring. It takes so much effort to say no. And eventually. And that's why diets are just the biggest industry in the world because you white knuckle for three weeks, you lose some weight, majority of it water. And then eventually you're going to give up because you've not changed the chemicals in your brain enough to be able to say actually I'm all right, I'm indifferent. I mean being indifferent to a hyper palatable food is insane.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean I have pot noodles on sandwiches.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's my favorite thing. Oh, I used to have a chicken noodle soup sandwich.

[Divinia Taylor]

Chicken noodle soup.

[Caroline Hirons]

Take the noodles out, put it in white bread, bread and butter, salt.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, that's what I want, that's what I want to develop. That's what I want to develop at Will powders, all the high street stuff, but made with proper ingredients. So like our protein. It sounds really out there, but if you think about it, it's not. My protein's not made from freaking weird peas imported from China that aren't even peas. Because I, I spoke to a guy I used to work at Huel and he said we don't even know what those beans are. We don't know where they're from. But we just get protein out of it. Since when do you get protein out of a bean? It's never been a thing until recently. Yeah, and it's fake protein. Your body doesn't recognize.

[Caroline Hirons]

You didn't recognize it when I, when I first started slim, taking care of myself, should we say, because it wasn't really a diet, it was changing the way I lived. I bought into the healing all the way through. Not the ready made ones, the powders.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I had tried yours. They felt different. And then I had messaged you or you had seen something I'd posted and you put I am coming for them. It's full of shit.

[Divinia Taylor]

It is.

[Caroline Hirons]

And then I thought, hang on a minute. And I looked at the label and I was like, Jesus Christ. And I don't know why I hadn't even looked at a label because in my job with skincare, it's all I do.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes, of course.

[Caroline Hirons]

Look at labels. And then I had that moment of why aren't you looking at the labels? Yeah, you're just taking it from. This is big. This is a big seller. This must be great.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, the branding. Brilliant. Yeah, brilliant branding. You know, that's what it is because they, they literally know that you're time poor and you just like grab something and it's.

[Caroline Hirons]

But I mean, switching to Will powders.

[Divinia Taylor]

Which has only got five ingredients.

[Caroline Hirons]

Hashtag, not an ad.

[Divinia Taylor]

Hashtag not an ad.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's the best thing I've ever done because I subscribe. I mean, fully paid up, member of the club.

[Divinia Taylor]

I thank you for that. I mean, because basically what our protein is, it's bone broth. And when people say to me, what do you mean? I'm like, think of it as oxtail soup, but tastes like Mr. Whippy. And that's it. We flavor it with vanilla. We've taken all the beef flavor out of it. It's so bone broth. If you think about bone broth. Nothing to do with Will powders or anything. Every civilization through the whole of time has had bone broth as a staple from. Since we first created fire, we've had bone broth. It's got all those amino acids. I mean, even two generations ago we were having bone broth. We have just forgotten how to use it. Used to be in gravy, stews, soups, whatever. And so we've got Scandinavian bone broth. And the cattle there are all grass fed. Grass fed finish. You know, there's none of this mass industrialization that you get in South America, which is really, actually run by the cartels, which I'm actually quite intrigued by, because, yeah, I watch Queen of the south and I'm like, I kind of want to check that out anyway. But I digress. Our cattle, basically, the Scandinavians, do it really well. Think of the Vikings, you know, and they simmer the bones for 36 hours. We dehydrate it, we powder it, and then we put vanilla on top.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And we put cacao on top. And we make it taste like a flipping dessert. Because if someone said, you know, when you're like on a diet sweet, it's not too sweet. People are saying it is too sweet. So I brought out a neutral one. So you can put that. If you want to make bread, put that in there. If you want to make a pancake, put that in there. And then, of course, it's the soups as well. This time of year I want soups, you know, like copper soups, but they're full of. So I'm always testing these things because I don't want anyone's blood sugar to go up because then it makes it addicting.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And you'll start reaching for. So if you have like a cup of soup or something, don't sue me, cup of soup. But it's hot noodle.

[Caroline Hirons]

Let's try something else in the mix.

[Divinia Taylor]

Anything. Nor.

[Caroline Hirons]

Anything that rolls. A kettle and powder.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, literally. But if you have one of those continuous glucose monitors on, you'll see that your blood sugar goes up. So you get. Yeah, very nice for a bit, but after five minutes it comes down and then you like that. So Kit Kat. And that's it. You're off, you're off, you're off, you're off, you're off. And so there are our products. I mean, I could make them addicting, but that's not the point. You have one and you're all right, and you get on with your day and you finish off whatever you're doing without this and knowing that you can have as much of it as you want because you've got. It's bloody bone broth. I mean, the mums that say to me, the kids, okay, having protein. I'm like, how the did we get like this?

[Caroline Hirons]

How did we get here? When you're giving them the whole. If you open the cupboard, it's probably full of cereal.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, I'm like, well, literally, you will give them cereal. You give them Domino's, you give them a McDonald's for a treat. But you're going to question one of the. Well, the oldest ingredient known to man bone broth. I know. And you like flipping out. I said, of course you can. Of course you can. My kids have it every morning. And I whack a banana in and put some milk in. And then they have bacon and eggs. Be like, what your kids are. Bacon and eggs. I'm like, damn right they do. They don't have cereal. No, they don't at all. So, I mean, for me, willpowers. I'm trying to make it more of a family thing. I mean, it always starts with the mums, really. We still do frigging everything. We still organize the passports at the airport. Yes. The wedding, you know, and the shop. We decide how healthy the family is. And I'm trying to make it as accessible. So I've got collagen that's completely odorless and flavorless. I mean, my kids have got adhd. It doesn't smell of anything. You can put it. When prime came out, everyone wanted a prime. And I'm not going to say to my kids, no, you can't have that because we're orthorexic and we're on. No, of course they're gonna have prime. It was the end of term and I just put some collagen in and put the lids back on. And they soon got over the prime. But I'm like, sneaky clever, mom, I won. And like, my kid, one of them, number two, he smells everything, right? Smells everything.

[Caroline Hirons]

Son number two, son number second, smells everything suspicious. Takes a mug from the cupboard and he'll smell it before he puts a drink in it.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. Did you touch that? Did you touch that? Yes. I mean, it's a thing. Yeah. He will grab anyone's food, but if they go near his, there's.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, my God. They wait. At my mom's funeral. You'll love this. At my mum's funeral, Daniel prioritizes his. So he's. He's the one who's all obsessed with the diet. And he'll fast for eight hours after he wakes up.

[Divinia Taylor]

He does.

[Caroline Hirons]

He does all this, right, because he has chronic clinical insomnia, okay? Really, really bad. So he. His whole thing is his nutrition. And anyway, at my mum's funeral, Daniel's got this huge plate of food because it's his feasting time, of course, so he just. I mean, he just. And there's just this feast.

[Divinia Taylor]

Only the eight vibes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, I said we're doing a picture of something. As you do when the relatives there, you haven't seen for 20 years or whatever, you'll have a Picture at your mom's funeral. Oh, happy days.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

A northern funeral is mental. Especially bringing the Irish contingent who we had.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it's complete piss up.

[Caroline Hirons]

And as he left table went watch my food. Last night he shared his chicken tenders with me. I feel bad. I feel like I should just mention that because he's like, mom, I share my food with you. But that's the ADHD and the whole. His hyper focus is his body.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly that. My number two, exactly the same.

[Caroline Hirons]

Is it crazy?

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, it is. And you can see. And I think it's really good that we can see those traits now. And I mean, I only found out I had it when I was testing my son.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, I only found out I had it when we were testing Ava.

[Divinia Taylor]

There you go. And this question makes sense. And people said, oh yes, being over diagnosed. No, it's a survival, it's a skill set. So people with ADHD often were the people who. In a tribe you've got the cozy people who, I don't know, wet nursey type people who stay at home stories, do the bone broth. And then you've got the people maybe like you and I who go, should we have a look and see what's over that hill? Could be certain death, might not be.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you never know.

[Divinia Taylor]

Onwards and upwards.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

And. And also we've got. We're very distracted because our periphery is sharper than other people's because we're always looking out for danger. That's why you get distracted when you're in the office, because. And then what? And that is a skill set that is evolutionary made tribes survive. So why on earth would you think that that's not still applicable to this day and age? And why does a child like me at like 13 need to be stuck in triple flipping science? And me, you know, yeah, same with my kids. So I'm a bit like that about school.

[Caroline Hirons]

I am.

[Divinia Taylor]

I'm like, whatever, we'll figure it out.

[Caroline Hirons]

We'll figure it, figure it out because we've been through it, you know, the worst that can happen is you'll just have to work a bit harder. Harder.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. Or just. Or just find somewhere else. Find. Find somewhere. Go into manufacturing, do something else.

[Caroline Hirons]

If you don't need numbers after your name. I'm not paying for you to go to uni. It'd be a waste of time. Oh my God, no, I'm not paying for you. None of mine went to uni. Max said he was going to go. He Went, I paid the fees in full. And then he dropped out after a week. I'm like, why did I say why didn't I? Why did I pay the fees, you dick? Oh, by then he's my fourth kid. It's my fault. I should have known. I'm the mug. Okay, it's time for the clickbait. This is all circulating online fresh from the Tiki Toki or Insta and people that you and I will both know. I mean, not personally, you might. I just want to get your opinion on them, please. Okay. Eating 12 to 16 eggs a day is good for you.

[Divinia Taylor]

Okay. So eggs are really good. They're a great gauge of it if you're hungry. So if you eat your eggs until you're full, I. E. I can do three eggs scrambled and then I can. And then I'm kind of full.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

So for me, three is my max. Now, I don't know if you're going to do like a Rocky Balboa vibes, but if you're bulking up, sure, you can force it down you. But eggs are a complete food. It's got choline and it's brilliant for mental health, but it's a great one. If you're struggling with cravings and you're coming in from. You've not eaten all day and you're coming from the office, first thing I do is scrambled eggs. Shove that down and then I go, okay, now do I really want. Now do I really want a Chinese takeaway?

[Caroline Hirons]

But what we're not saying is like Eddie what's his face is just obsessed with.

[Divinia Taylor]

But he's. He comes from the bodybuilding background, so a lot of his followers are lads.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which is missed a lot.

[Divinia Taylor]

A lot of the, A lot of those followers are young lads. And he is tapping into a demographic that has been neglected, that has been. You've got your Bartlett type people giving them junk food, giving them acne, giving them gut dysbiosis, giving them estrogen, giving them man boob stretch marks, cellulite. He is actually at least pointing them in a direction where they now understand that this marketing.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

That you're paying into to put someone on a private jet ain't working for your son. So I, I know he's. But I think you have to over egg things with that. Those lads, because they don't listen, they don't get. You have to be extreme with lads.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oat milk is bad for you.

[Divinia Taylor]

It is wholly bad for you. Right. So first of all, it's not.

[Caroline Hirons]

I knew it was going to go that way.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's not a milk. It's not a milk. It's not a milk. Okay. It's juice. Oat juice. Right. So if you think about, you know, how do you feel after you have a piece of bread? Carb coma. Right. So of course it's. I mean, carbs are great. If you want to chill out, you naturally reach for carbohydrates. So at night I have carbohydrates, I'm not ketogenic all day, which means fat burning at night time. I have my sourdough, I have my vegetables.

[Caroline Hirons]

Your inspiration for me, when you. When I saw you doing sourdough toast.

[Divinia Taylor]

To the bed, I was like, fitness. This is a revelation. Watching something awful.

[Caroline Hirons]

Divinia says it's good. I am going to try it. And you're good because you just have a great.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, because you. Yeah, you get a carb coma and that's the right time of day.

[Caroline Hirons]

Because I want a carb coma at 3:00pm no, you don't, because, you know.

[Divinia Taylor]

If you have a sandwich at 3pm, you're going to be fighting through the brain fog. So at like 6:00 at night.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yes.

[Divinia Taylor]

Start chilling out, start relaxing, start having your bread if you want to. Mopping up gravy. Lovely, lovely, lovely. And literally everything with gravy and gravy. And you will feel tired because it lowers cortisol. That's why when you're in constant states of stress, you reach for carbohydrates to doubt. So you are biohacking, but in a detrimental way because you're going to pile on the insulin resistance. And we don't want insulin resistance because at least type 2 diabetes, which is all sorts of, like, puts you really, really, really at risk. Risk from all sorts of diseases. So that's why I like to try and keep my blood sugar low for the majority of the day and then I'll peak it and let it drop at night. And it's a lot easier than it sounds.

[Caroline Hirons]

But essentially what we're saying.

[Divinia Taylor]

Drink. Yes. God. Sorry, I got. But if you look at the ingredients on oat milk that oatley. Have a look on the back.

[Caroline Hirons]

Vegetable oil.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's vegetable oil, which is bad for you. I don't care what anybody says, it is bad for you. Because it does. If you just take some and see how you feel. I mean, there's no such thing as veg oil. When did you last get oil out of a carrot or broccoli? It's marketed brilliantly. And you know what is wrong with butter? What is wrong with coconut oil? What is wrong? It's that. It's that processing. It's bleached and everything. And it's so contentious. It's such a dividing issue. But I'm like, do you know what? You want to have your polyunsaturated fatty acids. Happy days. But there's a great woman called Dr. Kate Shanahan.

[Caroline Hirons]

Read her book, her books.

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh, she is so nice. She is just like the nice, fastest, gentlest scientist. And she gets bullied left, right and center, and I freaking hate it. By horrible doctors who. And she studied. It's made it a life work.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

She said, no, just. We're not telling you not to eat. I'm telling you to swap this out. It's not serving you. It crosses the blood brain barrier. It shouldn't be in our brain. It swills around. It's so. That's rapeseed oil, vegetable oil, and some.

[Caroline Hirons]

Flour oil, which are just into those drinks to make them froth. And I was having the ones that are just organic oat salt and water. I developed an allergy to them. I'd had the cough for three years, as people who follow me will know I'd be doing alive and going. And it was oat milk in my tea.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's liquid bread.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

I mean, if you're gonna have bread.

[Caroline Hirons]

Liquid bread.

[Divinia Taylor]

I love that.

[Caroline Hirons]

I want bread.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, exactly. You wanna chew it right? I mean, there's so many nice milks out there, even coconut. But just make sure if you're dairy. And teller, have a look at the coconut, make sure it's not got the veg oils in. There's loads of really good ones, you know what I mean? And no emulsifiers. It's all going to play havoc with you. It's all. It's about counting chemicals, not calories. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Gluten is harmful to your gut.

[Divinia Taylor]

I believe it is. I was talking to an amazing oncologist called Dr. Naysha Winters, and she said, yeah, it is. It is. Literally it. That's why I have sourdough. Because when you fermented the bread, it's for 48 hours. It's broken down that gluten molecule, so you won't bloat as much. I mean, you're still going to pile on weight if you eat it, like. Oh, yeah, yeah, lunatic. That's why I have it at night. Because then I'll go to sleep, you know, and then I'll stop.

[Caroline Hirons]

Not tempt not to eat another five slices.

[Divinia Taylor]

But yeah, Gluten is an inflammatory molecule and I think it's changed us. I mean I'm reading stuff about the amount of glyphosate and stuff in these. It's. It's a very deep science. You know the. The quality of the grains isn't good. So I. There's a company called Jason's. Not an ad by the way, I don't bread.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's all good.

[Divinia Taylor]

It's nice, isn't it? And it does fold and you know, it does go off quicker but.

[Caroline Hirons]

Good, good. I don't want my bread to last six months.

[Divinia Taylor]

No, but you've got to like. Then you just like rubbing it in the toaster as fast as you can. Got to get me money's worth kids eat.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just scrape it off, it'd be fine.

[Divinia Taylor]

Exactly.

[Caroline Hirons]

Taking too many supplements is bad for you. Our bodies already have everything they need. I mean it's. You can't. If they had everything we eat, we wouldn't have hormone replacement therapy.

[Divinia Taylor]

No, exactly. And you would know. Absolutely not. I mean the quality of our food.

[Caroline Hirons]

And also the quality of our supplements.

[Divinia Taylor]

Exactly. And I mean there's things that we can. We now know from all over the world, like curcumin, like a. My ancestors wouldn't have known about carcumin because turmeric wasn't here. But we know carcumic is a pain relief and it's an anti inflammatory. Of course I'm going to use that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. I run all the time now.

[Divinia Taylor]

Is it? Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

And anti inflammatory? Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Is it now cocuminate them lot? So, yeah, I mean I think there's so many things you can tweak and. And that's about what biohacking is about. You know, if you feel a bit shit one day, have that. If you feel good that day, pep it up with that. And that's why I love it because it's like it's nuanced. Each day is nuanced because it depends on my sleep, how I'm going to react.

[Caroline Hirons]

Perimenopause symptoms can be reversed by changing your diet and lifestyle.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, I think when I first started going into the perimenopause, I thought it was I have to go on HRT and everything. And then I started looking into my thyroid and it seemed to me my thyroid was exacerbating my perimenopause so I literally reduced the amount. I started adding in some more magnesium so my sleep was better. Yeah, I started doing like the infrared sauna to support my liver and I've really reduced My perimenopause symptoms completely. I mean, I still get a bit gnarly, but we used to sell a supplement called Estrogen Detox, but we can't because it's novel food now, but you can get it in France, but it's called Dim Din Dolly Methane and it detoxes estrogen from the liver. And I think a lot of women have toxic estrogen recirculating because you poo estrogen out, you know? Yeah, you poo everything out, but sometimes you don't. You reabsorb it and that can. And men as well, men have estrogen dominance and I think that is catastrophic for the population right now because you can get estrogen dominance from drinking plastic out of plus water out of plastic, which is phenomenal. Fabulous book called Estrogen Generation, which is worth the read. But that particular, that particular supplement, Dim D I M is brilliant. You need calcium D glucarate as well to take it through phase two of the liver and then get it into the loo. But we don't talk about that. Detoxing estrogen used up a toxic oestrogen and then you don't get the symptoms as bad. So it is that detox pathway I.

[Caroline Hirons]

Think the problem becomes. When you say perimenopause symptoms can be reversed by changing your diet and lifestyle. I know if I hadn't taken hrt, I'd have lost my mind. Absolutely.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it was taking the HRT that made me then go, oh, right now I can think clearly. My brain cleared up. So I think if you're lucky enough to come into that age, knowing what you knew and knowing well, I could maybe help myself here and make sure I'm not going on the wrong foods and da, da, da. Because for most women, the true story is without hrt, we'd be so much worse off in terms of like calcium for your bone density, everything.

[Divinia Taylor]

And it's neuroprotective.

[Caroline Hirons]

Everything. Everything. So I take estrogen two ways. I have testosterone, I have progesterone two ways. I mean, I have. I'll take it all, but I am also. I don't drink anymore.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I look after myself better. I mean, I could always. You can always do better. But I. What. I think what really wound me up recently was Eddie again said. Said this on. That's where it's. I saw that he said, per mental symptoms can be reversed by changing your diet. And I wanted to go, you're a man, you have no idea what you're talking about. And even if you're Coming from a good place. All you've done is piss off a load of angry women.

[Divinia Taylor]

I know, because also there's all the whole women's health thing that went wrong when we went the big scare about cancer and everything. And you're just like, there's so much confusion because I personally, my mum died of breast cancer, not BRCA1 or anything, and so therefore I'm at high risk. But I'm not joking. If I'm losing my mind, I'm going to take that chance. I am not losing my mind again.

[Caroline Hirons]

So BRCA1, if you haven't got the.

[Divinia Taylor]

Gene, well, God knows why did she get a breast cancer twice? They don't freaking know.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, they don't know and they don't care.

[Divinia Taylor]

They don't care. They don't care. Patriarch, okay?

[Caroline Hirons]

If you cut out carbs entirely, you will eventually experience higher energy levels.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah, well, I mean, I find that that is the case if I go into full ketosis, which I did do before I. My first London marathon, I did. I know, midlife crisis. I. I did go into full ketosis. And. Yeah, you do. You do, actually.

[Caroline Hirons]

You.

[Divinia Taylor]

You do. You suddenly start fat burning. Then the body gets realized it's got no glucose, so it goes into using those ketones and you've got endless supply of ketones, particularly if you're overweight and your body just get. But tell you what takes you back out. Boredom. I want a snack. I want to treat. I want to do something.

[Caroline Hirons]

You do have a run, though. Running's your thing, isn't it?

[Divinia Taylor]

Running is my thing. And it's not a fast run. It's just bubble listening to house music. I have a load of nootropics, which are ingredients that rev up the brain. I've got something called brain powder and it's got a really cool ingredient in there called makuna purines, which is L dopa, precursor to dopamine. So me being dopamine deficient, it rams it up. I put some house music on, pretend I'm still in the house, and off I go. When I'm not, I'm just running around.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just running with the dogs.

[Divinia Taylor]

Running with the dogs, waving at people. I'll do really rock and roll. It totally and utterly gets my day into some sort of alignment.

[Caroline Hirons]

When do you run?

[Divinia Taylor]

Straight off. Just drop off.

[Caroline Hirons]

School drop off?

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah. And yeah, they're like, please don't run near the school. Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

They share that. Universally mortified. Yeah.

[Divinia Taylor]

Me with all the gear on.

[Caroline Hirons]

Have a good day, lads.

[Divinia Taylor]

Bye.

[Caroline Hirons]

Say hi to Your friends, you should only buy organic produce. And then it says, what if you can't afford to?

[Divinia Taylor]

Oh, well, I'll tell you what you can do, because I can't, because you've not got organic up where I've already got Sainsbury's and they've not got any organic in and Booth don't either. So you can wash it all in bicarbonate of soda with a little bit of apple cider vinegar to get the pesticides off. Obviously, if it's gmo, it's in the food itself, but, you know, we live in the 21st century. We've got Apple phones. That's convenient, I guess. You know, it's, it's swings in roundabouts. And by the way, meat, meat, if it's British, it's predominantly grass fed, so don't worry about that. Obviously sheep and cows are all grass fed because it's easy. Because guess what? It freaking rains all the time. We've got really good grass. So, yeah, so use British beef rather than anything brought in from Argentina can be fed corn, which changes the fat profile of the animals. And we need to support our farmers, really, because they're having a time, aren't they?

[Caroline Hirons]

For sure. Apple cider vinegar can cure digestive problems.

[Divinia Taylor]

Apple cider vinegar is pretty good if you are. If you have like acid reflux, it's because the acid's getting up. I wouldn't say it's a cure all. I mean, there's so many things you could do for digestion. There's one thing that I found that's really cheap and because I used to bloat a lot, which is molkasan. You get it on Amazon. It's this fermented whey. It tastes like vomit.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, no, I haven't sold it to me.

[Divinia Taylor]

I know tastes like vomit, but it does work with some aloe vera. And you put a capful of each in a cup and you drink it on.

[Caroline Hirons]

They're both disgusting.

[Divinia Taylor]

Within a week. Week, you won't be bloated.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you might never want to eat again.

[Divinia Taylor]

But you might never want to eat again. And your breath feel like you vommed. But it does work and it's cheap and it's there and it's really good if, particularly if you've got like, you've been over indulging and stuff and you're like, I've, like, you know, you've just got like that bloated feeling of after Christmas and everything. It's a great thing to do just for a week. And it's only a few quid, so molkasan and aloe vera. But it's vom.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay, great. What an ad. Sugar is the enemy and we should avoid it entirely.

[Divinia Taylor]

Well, I think it. I think veg oil is worse than sugar. I'll be honest with you. I think the body's always had sugar. We've always had honey, we've always had fruit. You know, I mean, obviously taking it, I mean, there's a capacity that you'll have and you'll stop eating it. But I think the veg oil is easier to swap out because A, you won't crave it, B, it doesn't taste of anything. And I think the body can metabolize sugar. Obviously, we've got too much of it. We've got carbohydrates, constantly. We've got carbohydrates, like covered in sugar constantly. And that's addiction. However, my enemy 101 would be veg oil. And it's easy to remove because you don't crave it.

[Caroline Hirons]

So the best way to cure IBS is to increase fiber in your diet.

[Divinia Taylor]

I don't think so. I really don't. I think that fiber thing's been over egg. I think it's more about the probiotics and I think it is about decent amino acids in you. So decent meats. To be honest, if I go. Me only. So I did Carnivore for January just to see what it would be like. And yeah, no digestive issues. Strangely. I pooed. Sorry. I normally. I normally have a morning poo and it shifted to the evening for two days and then it came back to the morning. I don't know. My digestion was. Because obviously fiber sort of like binds it. Fat is the laxative. Yeah, fiber just binds it kind of together. And it does. You know, there is elements of fiber that will help make the pre. The prebiotics, the probiotics grow because they're prebiotics. However, I still think the amino acids, the proteins, are the ones that give the. Heal the gut. So that's why I have loads of collagen, because it heals the gut. Bovine collagen heals the gut. Leaky gut. And it's a thing now. Although if you go to your doctor and you say you've got leaky gut, they say it doesn't exist. You've got to say digestive permeability or something.

[Caroline Hirons]

And they'll give you a tablet for ibs.

[Divinia Taylor]

Great. But no, seriously, that molkasan aloe vera will really help with that, honestly.

[Caroline Hirons]

I believe you. I just don't want to taste something that.

[Divinia Taylor]

This is horrible.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, thank you. I feel like we've done way over time, but that's fine. Everyone will listen because we're both absolutely mental. What could go wrong? Do you have a burning question for me?

[Divinia Taylor]

Yes. So it is to do with like hrt, pigmentation, pregnancy, what's going on there and how can we help? Because I. After I had the kids, I got pigmentation there, but friend of mine, she got melasma around here. What's on the horizon for pigmentation? Because it seems to be. Everyone seems to have. Particularly with HRT as well.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's. It's hormonal number one. So you will. You will get it more. Because our pigmentation tends to come out when we're a bit older. So it's kind of coincidentally it's around hrt. But really the damage is done when you're younger. So when you go on the pill, when you have kids, when you are perimenopausal, any fluctuation in your hormones. So yours would have had a battering. Literally. Any fluctuation in your hormones can stimulate not. But melasma. So melasma is the one that is kind of more prone. We're. Women are more prone to it and it's more. It's usually around childbirth. You know, they call it butterfly. You get the here or here. Your biggest. Biggest. The biggest thing you do for it is spf.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And a lot of people don't want to hear that because they think it's, you know, the new. The. I blame the biohackers for the SPF is the devil conversation, which is a whole other subject. But SPF is number one. It's triggered by heat, not just sunshine heat. So saunas won't help. I mean, if your head skin, if your face is sticking out of it, you might want to sit with a cold flannel on your cheeks.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wear a hat, sit under an umbrella. But the thing is, you can treat it like now clinics will be really busy at this time of year treating melasma and pigmentation because the sun's not out. But the minute the sun comes back, and because we're very Northern territory, our thing in the sun is we all do this and it's instantaneously back. So you can treat it and it will. It doesn't go out, it sort of disperses, but it will come back. It's a bit like your normal. Your normal functioning melanin has just had the volume cranked up and it's going off like fireworks. It's over stimulated and it's hormonal. And there's not a lot that you can do for the average person who gets it. You can treat it, but the best treatment is prevention. You can't do anything about your hormones. That's going to happen. So someone who's never had a kid, never been on the pill could still easily get it because they will go through menopause.

[Divinia Taylor]

I wonder if there's any way to figure out what's going on in the liver there. That is kicking that off. It's got to be something to do with that. There has got to be some sort of. There's something's blocking, isn't it that it's flaring that up. Anyway, find out what it is.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'll do it with you and we'll launch it as a product together because it will change the world.

[Divinia Taylor]

It will change the freaking world.

[Caroline Hirons]

If you want to do on the.

[Divinia Taylor]

Train back to depressed and.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, but if you want to do something, if you have it, you can go and see someone who can get it treating do laser creams, all that sort of stuff, peels it, it will inevitably come back maybe not as bad as you had it before. So SPF is your best bet.

[Divinia Taylor]

And even like if you put like a fake tan on it as well, it just like.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well the fake tan is just sticking to the more color. So you wear your D darker, you're going to tan darker. That's all it is. So it's, it's putting makeup of one uniform color on your skin but your skin is not a uniform color.

[Divinia Taylor]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So your self tan doesn't cause melasma.

[Divinia Taylor]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

It just makes it look dark.

[Divinia Taylor]

Makes it look.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's all it is.

[Divinia Taylor]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's just tanning your pigmentation.

[Divinia Taylor]

So you want to do the whole lot, you know, see the scouser in me. A whole lot of pigmentation.

[Caroline Hirons]

Curlers.

[Divinia Taylor]

What are you doing?

[Caroline Hirons]

Tan curlers. Divinia, thank you so much.

[Divinia Taylor]

Thanks for having me.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean you'll have to come back because I haven't done any other questions are on my list. But thank you very much.

[Divinia Taylor]

Thank you for having me so much. And I love, love, love, love listening to you.

[Caroline Hirons]

You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our listeners questions episode. So make sure you tune in. Send your questions for me and my guests to answer to podarolinehirons.com until then, I'm glad we had this chat. New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow Us subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we had this chat is produced by Wall to Wall.