S2 Ep19: Nicolas Travis

Summary

Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons: A Deep Dive with Nicholas Travis

Episode: S2 Ep19: Nicholas Travis | Release Date: January 13, 2025

In this compelling episode of Glad We Had This Chat, hosted by the renowned skincare expert Caroline Hirons, listeners are treated to an insightful conversation with Nicholas Travis, the visionary founder of the award-winning, science-backed skincare brand Allies of Skin. This detailed summary encapsulates the essence of their discussion, highlighting key points, personal anecdotes, industry insights, and humorous tangents that make this episode both informative and entertaining.

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1. Introduction: Setting the Stage

Caroline Hirons kicks off the episode by sharing her excitement over her latest skincare innovation—the Skin Rocks cleansing balm. She enthusiastically describes its luxurious formulation and the meticulous effort invested in perfecting its texture and efficacy.

Caroline Hirons [00:00]: "Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support."

Following this introduction, Caroline warmly welcomes Nicholas Travis, setting the tone for an engaging and honest conversation about skincare, personal journeys, and industry dynamics.

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2. Guest Introduction: Nicholas Travis’s Personal Journey

Nicholas Travis shares his deeply personal story, shedding light on the experiences that propelled him into the skincare industry. He opens up about his struggles with severe acne during his teenage years, which made navigating skincare products both daunting and intimidating.

Nicholas Travis [02:31]: "If I could somehow channel that pain into helping other people feel more fearless or more confident in their skin, then my pain would have been worth it."

Travis recounts a life-altering accident at 19, which led to multiple reconstructive surgeries and complications, including necrosis and infections. This traumatic experience not only affected his physical appearance but also resulted in body dysmorphia, further fueling his determination to make a meaningful impact in the skincare realm.

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3. Founding and Growth of Allies of Skin

The conversation delves into the inception of Allies of Skin. Travis explains that after struggling to secure employment post-graduation due to his depression, he revisited his business plan for a skincare startup during his master’s thesis. Despite initial rejections and being the youngest and only Asian in meetings, he persevered.

Nicholas Travis [04:34]: "It was actually really, really difficult to get a foot in the door."

Launching in 2016, Allies of Skin faced significant challenges but gradually established itself as a global sensation, marking itself as the biggest Singaporean beauty brand on the international stage.

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4. Scaling the Brand and Securing Investment

A pivotal moment in the discussion revolves around the $20 million investment Allies of Skin secured in April, aimed at expanding the brand into the U.S. market. Travis emphasizes the importance of building a robust team to navigate this expansion.

Nicholas Travis [06:41]: "We are also in the process of recalibrating. We also had to honestly bring on a lot of new people and also let go of a lot of old ones."

He candidly discusses the challenges of scaling—not just in terms of resources but also in aligning with team members who can propel the company beyond the $50 million mark. The investment brings both opportunities and pressures, as Travis acknowledges the necessity of delivering substantial returns to investors.

Nicholas Travis [07:46]: "You have to think like that because it's really, really not free."

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5. Innovation in Skincare: Focusing on SPF and Advanced Actives

Travis shares his passion for innovative skincare formulations, particularly focusing on SPF development. He discusses the complexities of creating effective and compliant SPF products for the U.S. market, adhering to the FDA guidelines while striving to surpass the performance of Asian and European filters.

Nicholas Travis [10:21]: "Nothing like it. It's £55, it's ready and waiting and there is no dupe."

Beyond SPF, Travis expresses enthusiasm for integrating growth factors and copper tripeptides into their product line, positioning these as the next wave of skincare innovation beyond the saturated markets of hyaluronic acid and niacinamide.

Nicholas Travis [10:21]: "I think we're past the hyaluronic acid niacinamide again. Nothing wrong with it. But it's been done."

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6. Personal Skincare Journey and Lessons Learned

Travis reflects on his negative experiences with over-the-counter products like Proactive and invasive treatments such as CO₂ laser therapy, which exacerbated his melasma and led to further skin damage.

Nicholas Travis [19:03]: "I caused myself even more. More issues."

These experiences taught him valuable lessons about self-care vs. self-harm, leading him to advocate for treatments that support skin health without causing additional trauma. He now focuses on skin boosters and stem cell therapies in Bangkok, emphasizing the importance of gentle yet effective treatments.

Nicholas Travis [20:22]: "I have to stay away from heat based treatments, which means no, no lasers because they're all heat."

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7. Off-Topic Fun: Earwax Removal and Animal Fears

In a lighthearted detour, Caroline and Nicholas humorously discuss earwax removal videos, expressing both fascination and bewilderment at the lengths people go to for skincare and hygiene. This segment showcases their candid and relatable dynamic.

Caroline Hirons [28:09]: "They're overtaking pimple spot. Because I can do pimples every day at work. I don't need to watch that. But the ear wax removal, I don't."

They also delve into their fears of animals, particularly snakes and sharks, intertwining personal anecdotes with humorous observations about animal-related skincare trends and treatments.

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8. Personal Routines and Travel Skincare

Nicholas shares his extensive travel regimen, highlighting the logistical challenges of maintaining a consistent skincare routine across multiple cities. His approach involves carrying two suitcases equipped with silk sheets, pillows, and a comprehensive array of skincare products and supplements.

Nicholas Travis [36:51]: "I travel every like this week I'm in London, then I go to Berlin and then I go to LA. Then I go to Bangkok."

He emphasizes the importance of dedication and preparation in keeping his skincare routine intact despite the demands of frequent international travel.

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9. Industry Trends: Praises and Criticisms

The discussion turns to broader skincare industry trends, with Travis commending the increased focus on retinaldehyde and barrier care, which align with Allies of Skin’s commitment to clinical efficacy.

Nicholas Travis [39:43]: "It's been really great that everybody's talking about Retinol dehyde."

However, he criticizes certain trends, particularly the overemphasis on sustainability through refillable packaging, arguing that the practical application often falls short.

Nicholas Travis [40:35]: "The most sustainable thing is to not buy anything. I'm in a business of creating newness... So it's an annoying aspect for me."

Caroline echoes these sentiments, highlighting the inconsistency in consumer behavior regarding refills and sustainable practices.

Caroline Hirons [41:46]: "They're not going to refill something four or five times."

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10. Personal Reflections and Fears

Towards the end of the episode, both Caroline and Nicholas open up about their personal fears. Caroline confesses her fear of mediocrity—a concern about not being fully invested or performing to her highest potential. She elaborates on her childhood experiences and how they shaped her drive for excellence.

Caroline Hirons [42:17]: "Mediocrity... doing something that I'm not 100% invested in."

Nicholas shares a profound reflection from a transformative experience in Bhutan, where he embraced the philosophy of being "nothing" to attain everything. This mantra helps him navigate the pressures of the skincare industry and his personal struggles with self-acceptance.

Nicholas Travis [43:53]: "I want to focus on the person I am rather than what I have on the outside. I want to be nothing."

The conversation concludes with a light-hearted exchange about animal encounters and maintaining personal boundaries, reinforcing the genuine and personable rapport between the hosts and the guest.

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Conclusion: Continuing the Conversation

Caroline wraps up the episode by promoting the upcoming live tour and encouraging listeners to engage with future episodes and the Skin Rocks app for continued skincare insights and education.

Caroline Hirons [49:01]: "You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our Listeners Questions episode."

Listeners are reminded to subscribe and follow the podcast for more enlightening discussions on skincare, beauty, and beyond.

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Notable Quotes:

• Nicholas Travis [02:31]: "If I could somehow channel that pain into helping other people feel more fearless or more confident in their skin, then my pain would have been worth it."

• Nicholas Travis [04:34]: "It was actually really, really difficult to get a foot in the door."

• Nicholas Travis [07:46]: "You have to think like that because it's really, really not free."

• Caroline Hirons [00:00]: "Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support."

• Nicholas Travis [10:21]: "Nothing like it. It's £55, it's ready and waiting and there is no dupe."

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of Glad We Had This Chat offers a blend of personal vulnerability, industry expertise, and humorous banter, making it a must-listen for skincare enthusiasts and professionals alike. Nicholas Travis’s journey from battling severe acne and facial trauma to establishing a global skincare brand provides valuable insights into the resilience and innovation driving the beauty industry today. Caroline Hirons, with her signature frankness and expertise, ensures that the conversation remains authentic, insightful, and highly engaging throughout.

Transcript

[Caroline Hirons]

Here we are folks. The most insanely efficacious, sensorial, luxurious cleansing balm in the world has landed. I don't need to tell you what it takes to put my name to a cleansing balm. And this one had one mother of a brief. The skin Rocks cleansing balm is the best balm ever created and one I would choose every single time over anything I've ever used. Five rollercoaster years of fearless ambition, sky high expectation, tears, triumphs and F bombs. No pressure then, but what a result. Undoubtedly my most anticipated product. This was by far the hardest to make. The texture and crunch that took four years to perfect. Its ability to decimate literally everything on your face. The R in a jar scent, the paperweight, heavy hot pink glass. I mean literally everything I adore in a cleanser has been distilled into one glorious jar and it is absolutely spectacular. Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support and help improve skin firmness, elasticity and hydration. There is simply nothing like it. It's £55, it's ready and waiting and there is no dupe. Welcome to Glad we had this chat with me, Caroline Hirons, it's your one stop shop for all things skincare, beauty and beyond. My guest this week is the visionary behind the award winning science backed skincare brand, Allies of Skin. Having achieved global success, he is considered one of the leading figures in the skincare world and recently gained a $20 million investment to expand the brand here all the way from Singapore to tell his story. Please welcome the wonderful Nicholas Travis. Nicholas Travis. How are you babe?

[Nicholas Travis]

I'm really good. Better now that I'm here.

[Caroline Hirons]

How long are you here for?

[Nicholas Travis]

Till Saturday.

[Caroline Hirons]

And where are you living now? Fill me in.

[Nicholas Travis]

I spend my time between Berlin and Bangkok, but I'm moving to LA next year.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're always all over the gaff. So going to LA is part of the whole Seize America.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Investment expansion.

[Nicholas Travis]

We're really excited about that. I'm building a US team now and we're going deep into the us Deep.

[Caroline Hirons]

For the people who do not know. Yes, because obviously a lot of people who follow me will know you and are totally obsessed with skincare. Tell us how you and Allies came to be. The success that it is, the huge success that it is.

[Nicholas Travis]

Well, thank you.

[Caroline Hirons]

Tell me about yourself, Nicholas, as if you haven't ever before.

[Nicholas Travis]

So there are two personal stories why I'm actually here. The first is I had really severe acne as a teenager, and I found the entire process of shopping for products really daunting and intimidating. And I quickly realized there are just a lot of empty provinces on the market, and that sort of ignited my passion for skincare. So I have always been fascinated by the physiology of the skin and how the skin works. So my background is in biomedical and in pharmaceutical science. But one more personal reason was when I was 19, I had a really severe accident. I smashed my face, and I needed to have reconstructive surgery. And I picked what I thought was a good surgeon, but he ended up butchering my face. So I had multiple infections. I had necrosis where the infection was eating the flesh on my skin. So I had holes in my face. It was after many failed surgeries and a failed suicide attempt that I needed to see a therapist. And my therapist said, okay, let's assume you have to be here. Let's make a list of all the things you want to accomplish by the time you're 30. What does that list look like? And it was then that I realized, you know, if I was hitting myself every day, crawling out of my skin every day, then maybe other people would. And if I could somehow channel that pain into helping other people feel more fearless or more confident in their skin, then my pain would have been worth it. And so I always thought I needed to pay my dues.

[Caroline Hirons]

So where are you living at this point?

[Nicholas Travis]

Bangkok. So the surgeries were done in Bangkok, and I was too depressed to get a job after graduation, so I went to. I went to graduate school. And it was after, for my master's thesis that I wrote a business plan for a startup skincare line. And I always thought I needed to pay my dues, so I was applying for. To every job in every country, in every. You know, the estates, the l'oreals, the Elizabeth artists, all of that. None of them got back to you?

[Caroline Hirons]

How old are you at this point?

[Nicholas Travis]

I was 23. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And none of them got back to you?

[Nicholas Travis]

No, but I needed to get a job, so I ended up doing. I had a couple of offers at big advertising firms, so I ended up doing peer and social media.

[Caroline Hirons]

Helpful.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes, very, very helpful, actually. And it was the age before Instagram, so it was way back when Facebook community was just starting.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

And so I was a community manager, and it was like the Wild West. It was insane. The engagement rate was just, like, off the charts. Like, you could spend a dollar and you get so much, so it was just another time. So that was really fun and I learned a lot, but I had this feeling I couldn't shake off to go revisit that business plan. And mind you, that business plan was based upon the fusion of a million dollars. And I was like, I'm never going to make a million dollars working at an ad agency. But I realized that I could start with just one product and I could scale with just one product. And I just thought, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do it. I really, really have nothing to lose. And it was actually really difficult because we started in 2013, late 2013, and I spent two and a half. So I launched in 2016. And I remember going into buyer meetings and they're like, oh, you're from Singapore. I didn't know you had beauty brands. I only know if you're airline and your cocktail or your airline and your airport or your airline that casino that's shaped like a surfboard and they wouldn't stalk us. And I was at that time always the youngest and the only Asian in the room. So it's actually really, really difficult to get a foot in the door. But fast forward to eight years. We are now the most global, the biggest Singaporean beauty brand ever. So here we are.

[Caroline Hirons]

They're CLAPPING QUIETLY oh, thank you. And how has the journey been? And I always say when I use the word journey, I hate the word because of everyone's like, oh, my journey. But it has been a process, hasn't it? Like you say you go from one product to raising millions in investment this year, earlier this year.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

April, with the investment. How has that changed things for you now? So where you were on day one, trying to launch one product, trying to get your foot in the door to where you are now, moving to la, growing the business. How does that look?

[Nicholas Travis]

I think it comes with money, comes with the ability to hire really great people. And I always say, honestly that, you know, it's, it's an onion allies that it's really. Yes, I started. It started with my vision, but I have an incredible team and I honestly cannot do anything without my team. And I actually don't move without my. Without my team. And so with the money, it's come this ability to hire people who can help us scale. Because what I really learned is that the people that can take you from 0 to 5 million are not the same ones that can take you past 10 million. So we're also in the process of recalibrating. We also had to honestly bring on a lot new people and also let go of a lot of old ones. Because right now what I'm attempting to build is to fill the team with people that can take us to, you know, 50 million, the next, 100 million, the next, the next, truly the next level. And money helps with that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Money helps with everything. People who say it doesn't are just liars.

[Nicholas Travis]

No, it's true. It really helps with a lot. But the thing is, when you decide to go with the fund for investment, money's not free. So just because somebody gives you a dollar doesn't mean you have to return them a dollar back. It's actually three or five dollars. Right. So you have to think like that because it's really, really not free. So, yes, maybe some nights you don't stress about money, but then you think about, okay, how am I going to give somebody 5x return? And the pressure that comes with it. So you have to know that that's what you signed up for.

[Caroline Hirons]

See what you've done? Do you see what you've done? After our conversation last year in the hotel where the dinner took two hours to come and we just sat there the whole time going, the food's not here, but let's keep talking. It was bizarre, wasn't it?

[Nicholas Travis]

It was so.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it all came at once.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Starters, okay. We had a table full of food. We looked like we hadn't eaten for like three weeks. Bizarre. What's the plan in terms of scaling brand wise and product wise? Because you do cover most bases already with the current range. Are you going to stick with what you've got? Are you going to expand the brand or do new franchi.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I think that's a really great question. So creating new formulations is my favorite part of the job. So now that we've had the opportunity to this year launch our first spf, we're going to be launching new SPF formulas every year and they're going to.

[Caroline Hirons]

Redoing the one you've got. No, keeping it and doing another one. Wow.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. Different way of looking at SPFs because I think if you look at the market itself, you know, coming from Asia, SPF is a real. We take out SPFs really, really seriously. And unfortunately, you know, the US which is our number one market, they're really behind all those filters, so. And because my focus is the US so I unfortunately will have to follow the US FDA guidelines and I have to use the US filters again. Nothing wrong with that. Do they feel as good as the, the new European or the Korean ones? Absolutely not. But a lot of the. Oh, actually, most of the Korean SPF you buy online, Amazon and all that, they're actually gray market, so there's no way that we. We. We can do that. So what excites me is trying to figure out new ways of playing with. With these filters and introduce them. So we have that. And we're also really looking into how do we magnify things like growth factors, which has been a huge hit for us, and things like copper tripeptide also, which I think it's the next wave of what's to come, because I think we're past the hyaluronic acid niacinamide again. Nothing wrong with it. But it's been done. Yeah, it's been done.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it's in everything already.

[Nicholas Travis]

Exactly.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's in everything. It's like 10 years ago.

[Nicholas Travis]

Exactly.

[Caroline Hirons]

10 years ago is a big deal.

[Nicholas Travis]

So that. That doesn't really excite me. So what really excites me is things like really great SPF that people want to apply over and over again. And also growth factors and copper tripeptide and things like that.

[Caroline Hirons]

With the science part, let's geek out for this. What do you look for? Because obviously there is a big trend for K beauty, J beauty, Asian beauty, and sort of. But like you said, there's not really a demand in terms of Singaporean beauty. You've nailed that.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Do you class yourself in that category? Are you an independent? We happen to be from Singapore. It's not the most interesting thing about my brand. That's how I see it.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. I love that question so much. I'm so proud to be from Singapore. I'm so proud to be a Singaporean. But I don't see myself as just like this Asian brand. I see myself as a clinical skin care brand that uses clinically proven actives at the right concentrations in supercharged formats, as in, we check multiple boxes. So that's how I see the brand.

[Caroline Hirons]

And in terms of growing, where do you look for with the science? What are you looking at in terms of what inspires you to be like, oh, where do you go looking for your ingredients?

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

Because I know you're a bit of a lab geek.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I love that so much. Um, so for me right now, I think the future is in longevity, and I think it's in regeneration. And longevity means different things to different people. But for me, it just means helping the skin become more resilient over time. And also, more importantly, leaving. Let's say somebody can for a year afford allies of skin and then after that year they're not able to, for whatever reason afford allies of skin. Their skin should be better, you know, at the end of the year using, using it. And that to me is like longevity. And also when you're a 20 year old, you don't have to care about longevity. Right. So for me it's about, you know, serving that. For example, perimenopausal, menopausal women. We have a lot of customers that are on Ozempic and it's done really great things for, for, for their body, but they're seeing it in their, the laxity of the skin and also on their face. So for example, we have our copper tripeptide serum. We have an ingredient called saccharite isomerate which we use maxed out 2%. I love that so much because it's been shown in clinical studies to thicken epidermal skin of perimenopausal and menopausal people. So I, I love that so much. So it's things like that that we're really kind of focused on because I don't think people are speaking or brands are speaking to that audience.

[Caroline Hirons]

They ignore us, they try and sell us supplements and say, this will do better for you than hrt.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, it's not true. It's not true. It's, it's really not true. And what I, what I want to go after, it's that underserved community.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you. So do I. But thank you. There are a few things in life that just keep on giving. For 3.99amonth. A floppy fuel station sarnie, one small cup of bougie. Overpriced coffee? I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly. A wealth of fresh, expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the Skin Rocks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or. Or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness. It's all in one pocket friendly place on the Skinmox app with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just 3.99amonth, $34.99 a year. Or get a special discount via the podcast with code chpod to get £10 off your annual subscription. What are your earliest memories around beauty and skincare? Where did you kind of get your first. If I say to you, what was your earliest memory? And you go, oh, it was this, it was that. Is it embedded or was it not even a thing when you were younger?

[Nicholas Travis]

It was. My first memories were oxy. Do you know that? Oh, God, yeah. Oxy cream. I think it was 5% and 10%.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just burn your face?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I'll just burn my face because I had to put. Because I was breaking it all over. So I put it all over like, like a mask. And I. And I remember I had these like brown patches because it just burnt the face. And then it was Proactive. That was what I was.

[Caroline Hirons]

Let's talk about Proactive because no one's brought that up in any of the series we've done.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, but that was what I was using for a while and then it stopped working.

[Caroline Hirons]

Everyone's been through Proactive.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Am I. I don't know if it's Proactive or the one that. The offshoot of it. That is the biggest skincare brand in the usa, the Proactive model. Yeah, Very clever. Shocking skincare.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

But so clever. How do you rescue your face when you've been doing it for a long time? Because how long were you on it?

[Nicholas Travis]

I was on it for a few years. Yeah. So I was on it for a few years and it stopped working. And then I found.

[Caroline Hirons]

Did they have it in Singapore?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, they had it in Singapore. But I was going to the US and I found this brand at like, I remember Costco or something. And they had like a competitor Proactive thing, and I thought, I'll try that. So Proactive only had benzoyl peroxide, but the one that I found had both salicylic acid and benzoyl peroxide, obviously at lower concentrations.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

So I think that combination worked better for me.

[Caroline Hirons]

So just tell people what Proactive is. For the uninitiated, it's this thing, it's.

[Nicholas Travis]

A three step system you buy on a home shopping network, because that's what I remember buying. And they had all these infomercials, like.

[Caroline Hirons]

A 10, 15, 30 minute infomercial, where by the end of it, if it happened to be on when I was traveling in the States, by the end of it, I'd be like, do I need Proactive? No.

[Nicholas Travis]

God no.

[Caroline Hirons]

Get out of the shower and turn Over.

[Nicholas Travis]

And then there'll be a lot of people with, like, really bad acne on the before. And then they'll be like, oh, my God, it's really changed my skin. It's so clear. And you're like, oh, this is really easy. I can have clear skin. So then you just buy into the whole thing. So they had a cleanser, a toner, a moisturizer.

[Caroline Hirons]

Then they sign you up for, like, just a monthly subscription. This is so clever.

[Nicholas Travis]

Correct. And then they have this sulfur mask that I remember you wear to sleep, actually. And it actually did clear up the. The zits initially, but it's uncomfortable.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's still around.

[Nicholas Travis]

It's still around.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's crazy enough that it's much bigger now. Meaningful. Meaningful Beauty is the owner of all the. The ads, the infomercials now. Dr. Seabag and Christy. Cindy Crawford. Meaningful Beauty. And they spend the whole time talking about this fruit extract. It's like 30 minutes of a fruit extract, really. And then they use Cindy Crawford's face. If, you know, I use this, I'm like, okay. With the greatest of respect, Cindy Crawford, you have not used a papaya for the last 30 years. Numerous dermatologists, numerous machines, or a melon. It might even be melon.

[Nicholas Travis]

I think it's melon. I think it's melon. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's enough. I haven't really registered it in my brain because I'm just like, nope, turn over. What's been your biggest beauty or sort of skincare? Have you had any disasters where you're like, so many. Okay, great. I'm glad I asked. Yeah, I had so many after proactive.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, after. Right. So with acne comes acne scars. And so I had really bad acne scars. And I think because of what happened with my accident, I developed body dysmorphia. So I see myself in a different way than perhaps other people see me. And I remember one of the worst things I ever did was I went to Korea, and I went to, like, the best dermatologist, which apparently all the K pop stars go. And I was like, I want to treat my scars, or I want to, you know, treat my pores. And back then, I wasn't breaking out. It was, you know, I just want to treat some scars. And he was like, okay, we have this laser. It's just very strong. You have to, like, have the downtime for a few days.

[Caroline Hirons]

What did you do? CO2.

[Nicholas Travis]

It was the. The most painful CO2 laser ever. I. I was bleeding for six days. I had to go every Day for silicone patches and I had dried up blood. And of course that was the worst thing it could ever do because it triggered melasma.

[Caroline Hirons]

And because of that scoring and melasma. Yeah, happy days.

[Nicholas Travis]

I know.

[Caroline Hirons]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[Nicholas Travis]

Exactly. So I had, I. I had, I caused myself even more. More issues. So for me, that was like a big learning lesson. But I wasn't done learning because I was like, okay, after I treated it, I was just like always feeling like I needed to fix myself. So then I would go try different lasers. Then I would try something like the Morpheus 8, which I don't ever recommend anything heat based. Micro needling, I really don't recommend because it destroyed my barrier and it actually burned fat. So it burned fat that you're never going to get back. Right. So I was like, yeah, it was not good.

[Caroline Hirons]

Nicholas is putting a face quite similar to Skeletor.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I was breaking out. It was really not good. And then I realized that a lot of what I was doing was actually self harm masquerading as self care. And the best thing to do is actually do nothing. So that was biggest learning.

[Caroline Hirons]

What do you do now? Okay, what do you do now?

[Nicholas Travis]

Now that I have learned, I am thankful that I live in Bangkok where there are a lot of like really great treatments. And for everyone that who's listening, I'm really a big believer in skin boosters because first for me personally, because of all the bad things that happen during the lasers, I have to stay away from heat based treatments, which means no, no lasers because they're all heat, which means no physical dermabrasion. So none of that Hydrafacial. Do you know that thing that Dre.

[Caroline Hirons]

Let'S go back to Hydrafacial. I'm not a fan, but I'd rather explain more.

[Nicholas Travis]

So no, I can't do that. No. Obviously physical scrubs, things like that. I also have to stay away from LED lights because blue LED light at that wavelength can trigger melasma. So I have to be very, very careful. So in Bangkok, the irony being, of.

[Caroline Hirons]

Course not to interrupt you, but a lot of people use blue LED when they've got acne.

[Nicholas Travis]

I know.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it's that I know or they.

[Nicholas Travis]

Think that it can help with their post acne marks, but actually it's triggering. But now they know. So what I do in Bangkok is actually things like my Sarchivis stem cells. So stem cell therapy. So it's from a human donor and it's not cheap, but it's the one thing that has literally Rejuvenated my skin. Like my barrier was so disrupted. And you do that. You can also do placenta, like human placenta. It helps with skin tone. Melasma. And the way it's injected is very, very important because I'm sure everybody's talking about polynucleotides that like, red you want because all of a sudden it's like allowed in the.

[Caroline Hirons]

Everyone wants salmon all over their face. Yeah. So just quickly, for those who don't know, what are we talking about when we talk about salmon sperm?

[Nicholas Travis]

It's polynucleotides. It's. It's a term that's. General term that's used to call reggioid, for example, salmon DNA, salmon sperm. I was doing that in like 2014. Right. So I was just like, why is it really? It's. It works for a certain extent because it gives you this glow. But it doesn't last.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's not.

[Nicholas Travis]

And it's so pink.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't have to try it. No, no, I will not be doing that because I have seen people having it done and it looks painful. It's the red bumps all over the face. You come out looking like a fish. There's just red bumps all over the face. And everyone's like wincing. I don't mind doing the odd tweakment.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I will get back into them. But that's not for me.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes. And it is so painful. It is so painful. And even if you use the strongest.

[Caroline Hirons]

Numbing cream in the world.

[Nicholas Travis]

Exactly, exactly. So they have to put you under. So I. Polyonic shot. Yeah, Listen. So I remember I was in Korea once.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, my God.

[Nicholas Travis]

And they were going to do this micro needling, like PRP kind of thing. I was like, okay, down. And I was like, oh, can I do rejuan at the same time? Because in Korea they have something called twilight anesthesia. It's. They put you down for like 20 minutes. Oh, my God. It's the best.

[Caroline Hirons]

That sounds like a really good night.

[Nicholas Travis]

It's the best. And then you wake up and you're like, okay, your skin's a little tingling where you're like, I don't feel. Feel anything. I love it. That's the way that they should do it because it's like the best nap that you've ever had. Okay. But the point is it doesn't work.

[Caroline Hirons]

Can we do that without having all the invasive. Just have just twilight. That'd be great.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. So it doesn't work and it's actually really, really painful. But I've Also realized that for me, when you have all these micro injections and you don't go to the right injector, you cause a lot of trauma to your skin. So that's what happened to me. So I went to a not so good doctor that I was trying out and it left me with horrendous melasma. Because melasma is also triggered by physical damage. By physical damage. So I found this clinic in Bangkok. It's called Astrid. It's called Astrid. It's an incredible clinic. And the doctor is the best injector in the world that I. I've been around. She injects these placenta and these human stem cells the same way you would inject profilo. And if you've done profilo, you know, it's just five points.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's also painful.

[Nicholas Travis]

It is also painful, but it's not as painful as.

[Caroline Hirons]

It didn't do much repri. Again, I'm not a fan. I'm quite fussy.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. But profilo, it's more for inner hydration. So, yeah, so it's done five points. And when you inject five points, you actually like, I can go out to dinner. Like, I can go for this huge treatment, I can go out for dinner. But if I do rejuvenation, I could never. So I think it's important to figure out your injector. If you're dealing with melasma, it's very important to figure out your injector and how you're introducing these skin boosters. Because it's very nice to say, yeah, the skin boosters are good, but it's how it's introduced or administered that can actually trigger. So I've learned a lot.

[Caroline Hirons]

And also using skincare alongside it is key.

[Nicholas Travis]

Absolutely.

[Caroline Hirons]

What do you use alongside it? What's your current skincare routine?

[Nicholas Travis]

Growth factors, multi peptides and gf. Advanced lifting serum. Vitamin C, of course, in the day. Then copper tripeptide serum. I love that so much. And then lots of peptides, like a peptide rich moisturizer and vitamin C oil at night. That's really important. And retinoids.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Just hardcore.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

There's no need for like, just. I don't ever see you putting pseudocr on your face.

[Nicholas Travis]

I actually do use pseudocream. That's when I started. But I actually use something called triple paste now. And actually it's really great for long flights. Yeah, yeah, it's really great for long flights or with my skin, like after injections. After.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, you want grease.

[Nicholas Travis]

You want grease. And also, like, I Think triple paste has a different preservative system than pseudocream. And I was.

[Caroline Hirons]

Pseudo creme is just made for bums.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, let's be honest. Baby's bottoms.

[Nicholas Travis]

So I tried to use it on my face because the thing with pseudo cream is I could wear it to the airport, but I cannot wear triple piece to the airport. I won't get.

[Caroline Hirons]

You can't wear Suda creme to the airport.

[Nicholas Travis]

I can.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's white.

[Nicholas Travis]

No, I have done it. You have to. You have to apply it in a way where you just pet it like it works. I have to show you. I cannot wear truffle paste to the airport. I can't wear pseudo cream to the airport.

[Caroline Hirons]

No.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, I'm not wearing that. No. I've got the, like the Cerave Intensive night ointment. I'll be taking that on a plane with me next week because my nose is so dry after this. Weeks, endless weeks of cold.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

That I do need some grease. I mean, you know, I love that.

[Nicholas Travis]

I'm going to check that out.

[Caroline Hirons]

Coming back to Hydrafacials, what they have done brilliantly is marketing.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I've never known a machine marketed like a HydraFacial, have you?

[Nicholas Travis]

No.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, they are everywhere.

[Nicholas Travis]

They're everywhere.

[Caroline Hirons]

They're doing. You can brand them like we could do, you know, you could do Allies or Skin Rocks with Hydrafacial. They do them with everyone.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Ultimately, in terms of the treatment itself, it's a bit of microdermabrasion blast a bit of oxygen. The genius of it is like those old Hoovers used to get in the 70s, where you can see the gunk. The gunk goes brown.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And that's what you see and you think, oh, my God, my skin's never been so clean.

[Nicholas Travis]

And people think that it's the glow that they have as well. They talk about their glow, but actually I think it's that glow from. From over exfoliation. Like when your barrier is about to collapse, you're like, shiny.

[Caroline Hirons]

We're on the edge here, people.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, we're on the edge. Like, I feel like that that's with me with Hydrofacial. So I don't.

[Caroline Hirons]

No. Did you ever get into the microdermabrasion?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I did.

[Caroline Hirons]

Really?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I never liked that either.

[Nicholas Travis]

I never liked it. But I. But I.

[Caroline Hirons]

But I did it.

[Nicholas Travis]

But. But I did it way back when when there was nothing. I mean, do you.

[Caroline Hirons]

If you went for a facial, what would you go for? Would you go for anything these days?

[Nicholas Travis]

Actually, That's a really great question.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. So when I go, I would happily pummel your face. Yes, I would pummel your face.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Why are you hitting the mic? I'm not.

[Nicholas Travis]

My massagers are really, really great. I have to tell them no LED light, nothing with heat. And what I really need for facials is extractions. Like, good extractions. That's it. That's okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

But this is key. How do they do the extraction? Would you not even pay attention?

[Nicholas Travis]

No, I pay attention, but what do you.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't like the tools. I like a finger.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like a. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do that.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So quite fussy. When I see people on Insta and it's always the clickbaity stuff where they've got the Blackhead removal tool and they're all. And I'm like, you're doing so much damage, it's going to bruise. Please stop. Put it down.

[Nicholas Travis]

But do you know, I love watching those videos.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no. I love watching. You know, my near obsession is they're all going to throw up.

[Nicholas Travis]

What? The year.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wet. Oh, my God.

[Nicholas Travis]

I watched that too. I literally found it. This is British. Is this. This British guy. Two of them. English and British, right? And then they, like, pull it up and I'm like. And then they, like irrigated.

[Caroline Hirons]

Love. Love. And when I had one the other day and he was like, this is the worst blockage we've ever. I've never pressed play so quickly in my life. And. And sometimes something.

[Nicholas Travis]

He talks too much, so I have to fast forward a little bit.

[Caroline Hirons]

The thing is, if you go on YouTube and you fast forward, you'll see the spike where everyone else has done the same thing. All you want to see is the money shot.

[Nicholas Travis]

No. Correct.

[Caroline Hirons]

Give me the money. Correct. And I'm like, let me see that come out of their ear.

[Nicholas Travis]

How can somebody hear?

[Caroline Hirons]

They can't.

[Nicholas Travis]

They can't. But how do you get to that stage where you.

[Caroline Hirons]

I think you just think people are just so used to being like, so what?

[Nicholas Travis]

What?

[Caroline Hirons]

And you just assume they're just a bit deaf. Like, it's. But when you actually get start. When they start to get earache, I'm like, but did you see the guy who had like 5Q tips that ends in his ear? Like, what? You know, they're not coming out. What are you doing? But I watched one yesterday, which was the longest, the biggest removal of dry skin they've had.

[Nicholas Travis]

Oh, is it the one with.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it looks like a horn?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I saw. I saw that. That was so good.

[Caroline Hirons]

It was so.

[Nicholas Travis]

So, like, how do you get.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't.

[Nicholas Travis]

Because now I check my ears, obviously, but I'm like, how do you get so much like.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't know.

[Nicholas Travis]

It's the same way with, like, how do you get this huge thing all over? Because sometimes I would see your black blackheads or the lips, and I'm like, how do you get to that stage?

[Caroline Hirons]

But then I guess realizing. But with the earwax, some people are just prone to make more and some. There are. Some people say it's linked to, like, your liver and things like that. So Jim and Max. So husband and son both get a lot of wax in their ears. And we have had. Max has been to have his done. He's only 20. We had to go and get him done because he was just deaf.

[Nicholas Travis]

Actually, I had this. I had the same thing when I was like, five. Like, I had to go because I think I was yelling.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

And then I realized my.

[Caroline Hirons]

There's a few people in our office I should probably pay to go and get their ears done. Because I'm like, why are you shouting at me? Carla, Louise, Liv.

[Nicholas Travis]

My ears were clogged, but then they unclogged it, and then I never had a problem ever since.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I guess I love watching those videos.

[Nicholas Travis]

I love it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

They've overtaken pimple spot. Because I can do pimples every day at work. I don't need to watch that. But the ear wax removal, I don't.

[Nicholas Travis]

Even know how I found it. It was just, like, recommended for you or suggested me.

[Caroline Hirons]

And then I'm like, watching Friendship of a Day.

[Nicholas Travis]

I love it so much. Like, sometimes I can't sleep and I'm like, okay, I shouldn't be. I'm like, on you normally, sometimes if I can't see, I'm like, okay, go find a sound bath. Find meditation. And when I end up watching these.

[Caroline Hirons]

Ear wax removal videos, and then it's.

[Nicholas Travis]

Like two in the. And I'm like, I know I'm the same, but it was really satisfying.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, that was a random tangent that we needed. Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever, and I am so here for it, bringing our wild and wonderful. Glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you, promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs, and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk. All things skincare and beauty. Along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys. With exclusive on stage skincare demos, entertaining Q&As, and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets [e-mail] and secure your spot. Okay, let's do some sort of things that you love in terms of other parts of beauty, because you also like when you arrived, everyone's like, my God, he smells so good. Because you love other parts of beauty as well. If you were at home and your bathroom cabinet was on fire.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

What are you panicking about? Making sure you save. Because you're not gonna have to bring your own product. You're gonna have a warehouse full of that.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right, right, right, right.

[Caroline Hirons]

What is in there that you'd be like, oh, I can't lose that?

[Nicholas Travis]

I would say my magnesium bath salts.

[Caroline Hirons]

Jesus Christ. There's no hope. It's not sexy, is it? Give me something exciting. Fragrance or, you know, oh, this was the first product I bought when I first got my first $10.

[Nicholas Travis]

Or, you know, but everything else is replaceable. Right. I would feel like if there was a fire, I would need to de stress.

[Caroline Hirons]

And where are you gonna have this bath? If your house is on fire, where are you gonna have this bath?

[Nicholas Travis]

In a hotel?

[Caroline Hirons]

So essentially what you're saying is I have innate privilege and when my house is on fire, I'm just gonna go to a hotel?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. Where else would you call?

[Caroline Hirons]

No fair. Don't be calling friends. I'd be calling friends.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

What do you get regularly done in terms of when you are traveling? Because a lot of us, when we travel, we kind of. I think we've got out of the habit now. But you land and you just go straight to meetings and.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, that's me.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it wears you out eventually. So when you are traveling, what do you recommend for people who need to relax? Is there anything you get. You would get done in a hotel that you would pre book or when you're there, you might go, oh, actually, I'll have that. That'll help. Or do you have a routine when you land? Like Kate Somerville lands?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And she does. She has. She always stays in the hotel that has any kind of pool or a sauna or a steam room.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And she does a circuit. She does like five or 10 minutes in each for like three, like for an hour. And then she says it doesn't. She hasn't done any jet lag.

[Nicholas Travis]

Kills the jet lag, you know, I used to be like that. And I realized that I cannot do steam rooms and saunas because of the heat and how it triggers my melasma. So right now, honestly, I. During the flight is very, very important. So if I'm traveling from Asia to Europe or asia to the U.S. i really try to sleep. Like I sleep and then I can go. But sometimes it's also just being around really great people. So for example, last night I arrived yesterday, I arrived in the afternoon and I went to see my team. We had lots of margaritas.

[Caroline Hirons]

You were bad for Marguerite. You're bad. Like when we went out for dinner last time.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And we went to the restaurant, first of all, you ordered, we added like numerous margaritas. I'm not a drinker these days. But we had numerous margaritas. And then you were ordered like three mains as a starter.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I think they thought we'd lost our mind. And you were eating like a whole fish just as you were like, this is good. Thank you. Not a carb on the table.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

But a full fish. Right.

[Nicholas Travis]

It's a protein rich diet. Isn't that great?

[Caroline Hirons]

I get that.

[Nicholas Travis]

And we were starving, like.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, it was, it was a lot. But I. Every time I see you like took out the team out for margaritas.

[Nicholas Travis]

No, but I like to feed people. I think that's like my way of expressing.

[Caroline Hirons]

And get them drunk apparently.

[Nicholas Travis]

No, but just get them buzz.

[Caroline Hirons]

Inebriated.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, it's. It's more a little loose. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

What do you always have on you in terms of, you know, if you're traveling or if you're at home? What's always in your cabinet that isn't allies? What do you always have? And you can't say. Magnesium bath salts.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay, give me a fragrance. Give me something here. Hair, fragrance, body.

[Nicholas Travis]

So eccentric molecules is the one. Number one is the one thing that I always have. But I've been recently been really obsessed with using a body oil after a body cream. And I buy this eucerin one for eczema, which is really, really cheap. And you can get a really huge one. And then I use a body oil and I'm really into kiwi seed oil now because it's so great for. So if you're prone to like back me or breaking out. It's actually really great because it has really high linoleic acid and it smells like. It smells like kiwi. And that time to take because it's actually quite. You know, you put a body lotion you put a body oil, but during winter time, your skin, when you wake up the next morning is so soft. And it's been really paying off for me.

[Caroline Hirons]

How does it work when you're traveling from hot to cold? Because you must do a lot of hot to cold travel. Yeah, well, that's always a nightmare for me. Next week I've got to do hot to cold. I've got to take two suitcases.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. So for me, I'm kind of first.

[Caroline Hirons]

World problem, but yeah, I mean, oh my God, I've got to take two suitcases.

[Nicholas Travis]

I travel at least with two suitcases all the time because I have one suitcase with two of my pillows and my silk sheets and then my supplements. So I always, I always have, so I have skincare, I have supplements. You should see like I am ready. Like the one is always ready.

[Caroline Hirons]

So you could just lie down in an airport. Get your silk sheets out.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. Pillows. Yeah. So I can stay pillows. Yeah. I've had two pillows. Yeah, yeah. One big one and one to, to hug. And I bring my old silk sheets. Yeah. That's how I travel. Because I travel every like this week I'm in London, then I go to Berlin and then I go to la. Then I go to Bangkok. So this is like, I'm like that.

[Caroline Hirons]

You have to feel at home.

[Nicholas Travis]

I have to. Even though hotels don't. And I yesterday I was checking in at the hotel and she's like, oh, thank you for your loyalty. And then I was like, yeah, thanks. You know, like I checked my, my Marriott app and I spent 180 nights like at a hotel so far. Yeah. And it's not even the end of the year yet, so that's a lot of trouble. I would do over 200 nights.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'll give you a break. I'll give you a break with the sheets and the pillows.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. So. So that's why it's very important for me to travel like that because I really just have to sleep because I just work.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. So.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow. I'm actually quite tired now. Do you, what do you do in terms of, do you do anything else besides work? What do you do? Like, and I hate the term but like in terms of self care or any activity, what do you do to chill out and switch off?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. Okay. So for me I meditate a lot. That's like my, that's like my, my, my thing.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's not exactly what I was looking for.

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's like give me a Netflix or binging about set.

[Nicholas Travis]

Oh my gosh. I Like, I watch a lot of trashy tv.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay, great. Now we're on track.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

What's your favorite trashy tv?

[Nicholas Travis]

Well, the Real Housewife series.

[Caroline Hirons]

All of them.

[Nicholas Travis]

Not all of them.

[Caroline Hirons]

Beverly Hills.

[Nicholas Travis]

Beverly Hills, Salt Lake City, Potomac.

[Caroline Hirons]

I love the way it's like, not all of them. Here's a whole list.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, there are a few. There are a few. So I watch wherever. Yeah, so I watched a couple of those and then selling Sunset.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

Selling the O.C.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

Somebody told me to watch that.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's painful, but it's like wallpaper.

[Nicholas Travis]

Somebody in Mecca told me to watch that. They were like, nick, this is what you watch on planes. Because we're talking about long haul flights. And because here's the thing, I travel so much internationally. The Caroline, I've seen everything on the entertainment system. So I, I was telling them and they're like, no, go download Netflix on your phone. I was like, could you do that? Then they taught me how to do that. I'm like, now I have all these.

[Caroline Hirons]

Download and just binge on a phone.

[Nicholas Travis]

So trashy TV is really great because I think so much. I need to like, not think.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, you need to just be like, stop.

[Nicholas Travis]

So that's, that's, that's what I do. I work out a lot as well. If I, I see a trader five, six times a week.

[Caroline Hirons]

How do you do that when you travel?

[Nicholas Travis]

I don't. So if I'm in Bangkok, then I have a trainer in Bangkok. I have a trainer in Singapore, I have a trainer in la. I have a trainer in Berlin. But then if I'm in London, I don't.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I've never felt so, like, pathetic, actually.

[Nicholas Travis]

No, it's just that I have to, I have to architect my life.

[Caroline Hirons]

Keep yourself going. I get it, I get it. Let's finish up on things like trends. Because it would be really easy for a brand like you and a brand like mine to be honest, to fall into the trap of trends.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And we don't.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So like you said you were doing, you had salmon all over your face 10 years ago. How do you feel we are as an industry with trends at the moment? What's been the best and the worst that you've seen recently?

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay. I would have to say that it's been really great that everybody's talking about Retinol dehyde. Because when I introduced my, when I started working with it in 2013 and I launched in 2016, they were like, huh, is it retinol? And I. Because I know, it's like, no, they were like, is there a typo? Why is there an AI? No, no, this is actually retinaldehyde. Here's why. And I love that so many brands are using it right now and I think it's incredible. So that's a plus. I think a plus is also barrier care. I think that is the one thing because, you know, we can sit here and talk about expensive treatments, expensive ingredients, but if your barrier is not, not strong enough to, to absorb all of it, then it's a, it's a wash.

[Caroline Hirons]

Do you not think though that our industry is partially responsible for everyone having a damage barrier?

[Nicholas Travis]

I think so.

[Caroline Hirons]

With all of the products?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, you can use all of these together when you can't?

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, I think so to a certain extent. And but I also think that the one thing that I try to not the one thing that's not so good that I don't really like is this like sustainability thing.

[Caroline Hirons]

Right.

[Nicholas Travis]

Not that I don't think our planet needs to be safe, but I'm just saying first and foremost, there's no like reef safe skin care or UV filters. Okay? Everything just damages corals. But more importantly, corals are really damaged by global warming. Global warming, let's call it spade of speed. But it's also like this refillable packaging and all of that. Like, guys, the most sustainable thing is to not buy anything. And I cannot tell you I was sustainable brand because I'm in a business of creating newness. I'm in a business of telling you you need to use more than one serum. I'm in a business that tells you you need a day moisturizer and a night moisturizer. So that part just really annoys me. And everybody's like, oh, what is this refillable packaging? I'm like, have you seen, you basically need to like buy four refills before it actually makes sense of or with a carbon footprint.

[Caroline Hirons]

And most people don't.

[Nicholas Travis]

Most people.

[Caroline Hirons]

The research is most people will buy refill and then the next time they'll buy a fresh one.

[Nicholas Travis]

Correct.

[Caroline Hirons]

They're not going to refill something four or five times.

[Nicholas Travis]

Exactly. So that's what I don't like.

[Caroline Hirons]

I like that. Yeah, I agree. Do you have a burning question for me?

[Nicholas Travis]

What? I'm just thinking. I'm just thinking. No, no, actually I do.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm scared.

[Nicholas Travis]

No. What are you most afraid of?

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, I've got a really good answer. My first thing was snakes.

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

But my actual answer is mediocrity.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Mediocrity.

[Nicholas Travis]

What do you do when you feel like you're not good enough because you have such an incredible sense of self?

[Caroline Hirons]

Question why I'm doing it and if it's right for me. And by mediocrity, I mean doing something that I'm not 100% invested in.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like not absolutely loving what I'm doing.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I've always had it. Always had it. That's why I. If. So, for example, in school, if I knew I wasn't going to be really good at a subject, I would just be like, I'm not gonna bother. I'm gonna put all my energy over here, which I now can see as textbook adhd.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

But we didn't know at the time. We had no idea. No idea. Every single school report. Caroline would be fantastic if she paid attention.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

And stopped talking.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

And in the subjects I liked, Caroline is fantastic.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

She's so dedicated. Her focus is, like, unlike anything I've ever seen. Only in a handful of stuff. Not in physics or chemistry, let's be honest. Biology. Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

So mediocrity, like, if just to be average in what I'm doing, that's is a. It's not that it's. I don't really. I'm not really scared of anything in that way, but I. I am. I would say I'm more wary of not letting myself go down a path of just doing something for the sake of it.

[Nicholas Travis]

I can as well. Like, I'm all or nothing kind of person. Like, if I do something, I do.

[Caroline Hirons]

It, but I really don't like snakes.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. Okay. Note it.

[Caroline Hirons]

What are you most afraid of?

[Nicholas Travis]

I think with everything that I have been through, one of the biggest lessons or biggest aha moments was when I was in Bhutan last year. My guide took me to the top of the Himalayan Mountains and I saw this huge tree. It was like, hug me. And I've never hugged a tree before, but I was like, okay, I'm going to. I'm going to listen. I'm going to hug the tree. The tree said, you're not your face, you're not your body, you're not your money, you're not who you know. Be nothing so that you can have everything. And in that moment, because I also grew up in a very abusive home, and I went through a lot in my teenage years, for the first time in my life, I felt like I didn't need anything, I didn't want anything. And that's what I've been trying to get to And I think what scares me the most is honestly right now moving away from just being so unkind to myself because I have been the worst to myself. Like, I've been horrendous to myself and the things that I've done. Like I said, I burned my skin and like, all that kind of stuff. That's the part that I think I need to be careful of. Especially when I start going to a place like la.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

In which the physical ground central for plastic surgery.

[Nicholas Travis]

Or also just, I guess how people look on the. On the outside is the currency of the day. Right. So that's the one thing that I think I need to make sure I let go of that attachment.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'll just send you positive affirmations every day.

[Nicholas Travis]

Thank you.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'll just send you a. You can do this, bitch.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

You look great today. And you'll be like, you haven't seen me in two weeks. It's okay. I know. You look great today.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. I want to focus on the person I am rather than what I have on the outside. I want to be nothing.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's a much nicer way to end than snakes.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you, my friend.

[Nicholas Travis]

But they are. I mean, nobody likes snakes.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no. People are like, oh, I love my snake. You're old. That's just not normal.

[Nicholas Travis]

Although I did date somebody who had a pet snake, though.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's not even a red flag. That's like a bull running through a room with a red flag. No.

[Nicholas Travis]

I thought it was cool that let.

[Caroline Hirons]

It out the cage. They're like, oh, it's just being a play.

[Nicholas Travis]

They sleep most of the time.

[Caroline Hirons]

No.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no.

[Nicholas Travis]

They just look real when they shat. That's a bit.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just respect the snake. Leave it.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

Just. Just respect it. Animals, they freak me out. I'm just like. There was a. I put a clip on my Insta of a man who went shark diving in a perspective box and he fell out of it. Oh, shocking that you might get killed. Respect the ocean, respect the sharks.

[Nicholas Travis]

I would go shark.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'll be at the side making you two going. You've got this, honey. It's not for me. Respect the animals.

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm like a triple fire sign. There's. I don't do water in that way.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, if I'm sitting on a beach and I'm paddling my feet and I can see that, I'm like, no, there's something swimming past my leg. No. And I also, in the generation that had jaws, right. That's PTSD and trauma.

[Nicholas Travis]

Watch that as well.

[Caroline Hirons]

But did you watch when you were seven? Yeah, my mom and dad took me to the pictures.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. I did.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I remember vividly sitting there and I put my feet up on the seat because I was scared there was gonna be a shark underneath the seat. Yeah, it was full of kids.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

That didn't come with a trigger warning in 1977.

[Nicholas Travis]

Hello, Jaws.

[Caroline Hirons]

Still now, it's probably the film I've seen the most. It's a sickness. It's a sickness.

[Nicholas Travis]

I get it, though. Sharks are real. I wouldn't go so far out.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you want to go swimming with them, you fucking lose in a cage. Oh, like the guy in the perspective box, and he's literally just become. Feed.

[Nicholas Travis]

How did he fall out? Because usually it's a steel cage that.

[Caroline Hirons]

You go in and they're all swimming around him, and then he tips and he's like, oh, look, mom, food.

[Nicholas Travis]

I'm sorry. The cage you go in is closed.

[Caroline Hirons]

No, because that didn't work in Jaws either. Nicholas Richard Dreyfus, Right? Yeah. He got. He got almost eaten. And at the very end, he pops up and, you know, it's all. It's no respect, the shark, stay away.

[Nicholas Travis]

But whale, whales, dolphins.

[Caroline Hirons]

Terrifying. Absolutely. Here's my theory, right? So we're not in Australia, and we've gone off on a tangent, but it's fine. Here's my theory. We're not in Australia yet, and I've never been, and I want to go. But what I do not want to do is do anything that involves anything on the water.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

Anything in the outback.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right?

[Caroline Hirons]

Right. I've seen this. I've seen these spiders. I've seen people having a barbecue, and the snakes are twining themselves around the wires, and they're like, oh, it's a big one. And I'm like, what? Why are you still standing there?

[Nicholas Travis]

What are they saying?

[Caroline Hirons]

Who are you people? Move. Leave Australia.

[Nicholas Travis]

The barbecue. They're cooking the meat.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, I. I don't. And then my big thing is when you see people paddleboarding.

[Nicholas Travis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, oh, hey, he's a big one. And there's a super huge sperm whale next to them, basically saying, get out of my water.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

And they're like, oh, hey, little guy. And this is. I can't. Who are you people? I'm not built like that.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right. Okay. God.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm not built like that.

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay, got it.

[Caroline Hirons]

I'm very much a Leo and a lion. Like, I'll stay in the jungle where I belong. And people like, I'd love to do a safari. I'm like, that, why would you take yourself to a jungle? And you know all the rules when you go on a safari? Friends of ours went and they were like, so you can't wear anything fragranced. You can't take any perfume. And I'm like, so I know why. Oh, the scent will attract. And I'm like, absolutely not. No, no. I love. I respect the animal.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

You stay in your home. You. I'll be in my home.

[Nicholas Travis]

Right.

[Caroline Hirons]

I don't want a shark coming to my house for tea. I'm not going to throw myself in the ocean.

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay, got it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Respect the animals. It's a good place to finish.

[Nicholas Travis]

Okay, I'll send you a phone. I'll send you a postcard.

[Caroline Hirons]

When I do it, don't give me anxiety. I'll be like, nicholas, get out of the water. Get out of the water. Okay. Thank you. You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our Listeners Questions episode. So make sure you tune in. Send your questions for me and my guests to answer to pop podaroline hirons.com. until then, I'm glad we had this chat. New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us. Subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we had this chat is produced by Wall to Wall Media.