S2 Ep21: Takes New York with The Lipstick Lesbians - Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons

Summary4 min read

Podcast Summary: Glad We Had This Chat Takes New York - 'The Lipstick Lesbians' Alexis and Christina Androulakis

Introduction

In Season 2, Episode 21 of Glad We Had This Chat, host Caroline Hirons welcomes Alexis and Christina Androulakis, famously known as "The Lipstick Lesbians," to discuss their dynamic journey within the beauty and skincare industry. The episode, recorded on January 20, 2025, delves into their rapid ascent in social media, the challenges they faced while launching their own lipstick line, and their critical observations of the current retail landscape.

Journey on Social Media and TikTok Success

Alexis and Christina's foray into social media was both strategic and serendipitous. Initially entrenched in beauty product development and education, their accidental discovery of TikTok in 2018 paved the way for their viral success.

Discovery of TikTok: Alexis recounts, "I was working as a consultant in beauty product development when a chance conversation introduced us to TikTok. It was like a Wall Street moment picking a winning stock" (02:13).
Strategic Shift to TikTok: Christina emphasizes the platform's educational potential, "I studied how people learn on TikTok and realized it aligned perfectly with our mission to educate about beauty" (06:10).

Their content strategy focused on "edutaining" the audience with informative yet entertaining videos, leading to nearly a million followers on TikTok and over 400,000 on Instagram. This success wasn't overnight but the result of meticulous planning and leveraging their combined expertise in beauty and education.

Launching Their Own Lipstick Line

Motivated by the potential of social media, Alexis and Christina pooled their resources to launch their own lipstick brand. This venture was not without its lessons:

Early Challenges: Alexis shares, "We launched in Italy with beautiful formulas, but realized you never self-fund a business without an audience or proof of concept" (04:45).
Product Development Insights: Their background in product development allowed them to scrutinize products effectively, leading to the creation of high-quality, transfer-proof lipsticks that resonated with their audience.

Interactions with the Beauty Industry

The Lipstick Lesbians provide a unique insider perspective on the beauty industry, highlighting both its strengths and shortcomings.

Retail Observations: Caroline criticizes the current state of Sephora stores, noting, "Walking into Sephora and finding messes online makes me sad because I know what it takes to create those products" (19:10). Alexis adds, "Sephora's open-sell environments never anticipated the volume and behavior of today's consumers."
Respect for Industry Veterans: Both Alexis and Christina express deep respect for industry veterans like Caroline, recognizing the foundational work that has paved the way for new influencers. Caroline reflects on her journey, "My blog was all education, just like what you two are doing now" (17:54).

Current Retail Landscape and Future of Stores

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the decline of traditional department stores in favor of stores like Sephora and Ulta, attributing this shift to changes in consumer behavior influenced by social media.

Retail Decline: "Retailers are killing the customer experience by pushing self-service checkouts, leaving elderly customers without support" (60:41) - Caroline Hirons.
Vision for the Future: The guests envision a future where retail stores must reinvent themselves to offer exceptional in-person experiences or risk becoming obsolete. Alexis states, "If you don't provide an amazing store experience, you're going to lose your retail space" (62:07).

Future Plans and Educational Initiatives

Looking ahead, Alexis and Christina are committed to furthering their educational mission within the beauty industry.

Educational Courses: They are developing a comprehensive course titled "Product Development Anchor Wheel," which integrates their extensive knowledge in beauty and education to empower aspiring beauty executives (29:17).
Community Engagement: Plans include hosting meetups and expanding their presence both digitally and physically to foster a community of informed and empowered beauty enthusiasts.

Quick Fire Q&A

Towards the end of the episode, Caroline engages Alexis and Christina in a fun quick-fire session covering personal preferences and anecdotes.

Favorite Products: They share their beloved skincare and makeup products, highlighting brands like Beekman 1802, Ulta, and Chanel.
Retail Preferences: A playful debate arises over shopping at Ulta versus Sephora, with Alexis favoring Ulta for its comprehensive selection and Christina preferring the elevated experience of Sephora and Bergdorf's.
Personal Anecdotes: Light-hearted stories about their early days in the beauty industry and favorite sandwiches add a personable touch to the conversation.

Notable Quotes

Alexis on TikTok: "We were just inching. I'm like, I hope we get it before they take it away" (02:28).
Christina on Education Frameworks: "We're putting an education framework that has never been done before in the beauty industry" (12:33).
Caroline on Retail Standards: "I go into every single Sephora and the only one that was different was the Upper West Side at 11 am on a Sunday morning" (19:39).
Alexis on Influencer Culture: "Creators need to be educators first and then influencers" (51:42).

Conclusion

This episode of Glad We Had This Chat offers a deep dive into the intersection of education, social media, and product development within the beauty industry. Alexis and Christina's journey from consultants to social media sensations and their critical insights into retail evolution provide valuable lessons for both industry insiders and beauty enthusiasts alike. Their commitment to education and authenticity sets a new standard for influencers, emphasizing the importance of knowledge and integrity in fostering a loyal and informed audience.

Stay Tuned

Don't miss future episodes where Caroline continues to bring in more industry experts to share their unique stories and insights. Subscribe to Glad We Had This Chat on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred platform, and join the conversation every Monday and Wednesday.

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Transcript954 lines

[00:00]
Caroline Hirons
Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it, bringing our wild and wonderful Glad we had this Chat podcast to a venue near you, promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys. We with exclusive on stage skincare demos, entertaining Q&As and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons, me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets now@carolinehirons.com and secure your spot. Welcome back to Glad we had this Chat and welcome to our season two special, Glad we had this Chat Takes New York. I mean, I can't go all the way to the Big Apple and not hit up my friends old and new, can I? So grab a brew, pull up a chair or put your headphones on and go for a run. However you listen to your podcasts, stay tuned to find out who we meet up with stateside and what they have to say. My first guests on Glad we had this Chat Takes New York found themselves in the education and product evaluation side of social media by complete and totally calculated chance. It's Alexis and Christina, the lipstick lesbians. Alexis and Christina, welcome, New York. Glad we had this chat.
[01:31]
Alexis
Yes.
[01:32]
Caroline Hirons
How thrilled am I that you said yes?
[01:34]
Alexis
Oh, we're really excited to be here and we're happy to.
[01:37]
Caroline Hirons
You walked in and we were like, there they are. But this is this. Oh my God. They've got exactly the same head movements. Did you see the bunch?
[01:46]
Alexis
It's a problem. We have to spend less time together, but we're going to work on it.
[01:51]
Christina
When we roll back the camera, we'll.
[01:53]
Caroline Hirons
Notice before we crack on like, this has come about quickly. It may not seem it for you, but it seems it to me. I've been around since donkeys and carts and suddenly I started seeing your face.
[02:04]
Alexis
Yeah.
[02:04]
Caroline Hirons
And then on my algorithm and da, da, da, da. And then I saw the name and I was like, well, that's a follow. And then you blew up.
[02:11]
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
[02:13]
Caroline Hirons
I don't even like how and where because people ask me and I'm like, I didn't blow up. I'm like a 25 year overnight success.
[02:18]
Alexis
Yeah.
[02:19]
Caroline Hirons
And you guys were obviously so experienced. But how did the social thing click?
[02:24]
Christina
Yeah.
[02:24]
Caroline Hirons
How did it go to boom? Here we Are like, are you a million on Tick Tock? Nearly a million on Tick Tock.
[02:28]
Alexis
Right there we're just inching. I'm like, I hope we get it before they take it away.
[02:33]
Caroline Hirons
And why Tick Tock and not Insta?
[02:35]
Christina
Well, we are on Instagram.
[02:36]
Caroline Hirons
No, I know, but like the home, isn't it the home. Like my home planet is Insta. Yes, but I'm older.
[02:42]
Alexis
Right.
[02:42]
Christina
But you know, it's interesting. It's harder to build on Instagram and I think it's remarkable. We just hit 407,000 today. I don't know what it's going to be by the time you watch this podcast, but it's so much harder to build on Instagram. So a lot of the times you'll see people that have like multi millions on TikTok, but like way less, sometimes 10,000.
[03:00]
Caroline Hirons
I see that I'm now I'm the opposite. I'm huge on Insta. Like where is she?
[03:04]
Christina
Yeah. So I think it's the fact that we've built such a huge audience already in that short time period it's 407,000 is remarkable. It's on Instagram.
[03:13]
Alexis
I think something that we've never shared before as I'm reflecting and Christina's talking, is that in 2018 I was working as a consultant. I had my own consulting beauty product development consulting firm. I had a series of clients, One was a manufacturer. And I'll never forget the day that this woman at the manufacturing facility, she was the SVP at the time. She turns around and starts telling me about this new platform called TikTok. And her seven year old at the time was on platform doing dance videos. She's like, it's gonna be huge. It's gonna be huge. And like I could, I could. It's like that moment where you're in an office and I imagine it's like the Wall street moment where someone picks the stock that's gonna be the winner. This was the level of enthusiasm. And then I took that enthusiasm home to my wife and I said, you know this thing TikTok and at the time we were quietly building what's a self funded lipstick company. And this is why we have the handle in the first place. Because I convinced Christina five years into our relationship that it would be an amazing idea to pool all of our money and put it into launching our own lipstick company.
[04:14]
Christina
But they didn't have anything else to do. Just kidding. Just working full time for me, working a full time job, getting my PhD and working at the university. Oh let's start a beauty burn.
[04:21]
Alexis
Just a few things she was working on.
[04:23]
Christina
Crazy.
[04:24]
Alexis
And she's underachiever. Yes, Nauseating, actually. I think I got like envious of how much work you were doing. Then I was like, let me just add more to my plate.
[04:33]
Caroline Hirons
Too much you can take.
[04:35]
Christina
And we're both type A, so it's like, you know, we put our all into it and we wanted to do well, you know, we did.
[04:40]
Alexis
And then for us, a lip sync company, they were not transfer proof lipsticks.
[04:43]
Christina
They were classic bullets, beautiful formulas made.
[04:46]
Alexis
In Italy, Italian formula. And the lesson there was one, you never self fund your own business when you don't have an audience or a proof of concept. And also though we learned from a holistic perspective what it means to be a beauty founder and an entrepreneur. And we also understood that TikTok changed lives. And Christina really, her doctoral head really just came out. And I remember her studying the platform and when I, I mean studying. And she looked at me 20, 20, 20, 21 and. And she looked at me with the most defiant eyes and she said, oh.
[05:24]
Caroline Hirons
My gosh, I can see that.
[05:26]
Alexis
She just said, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna crack this, I'm gonna hack it. And I was just like, okay, babe.
[05:32]
Christina
And I kept on saying it too.
[05:34]
Alexis
And that's where the antithesis of her chillness comes in. It's this quiet determination that is unrelenting and this insatiable curiosity. And at the time you were deep, deep, deep in the Gary Vee church, I call it.
[05:48]
Christina
Well, I just finished my PhD and I just found Gary Vaynerchuk. And NFTs were booming at the time and I found him through V friends and so I was interested in that. But you know, it was interesting because through that I found his messaging of just like how to be on social media and I really listened to what he said. I like obeyed the church of Vaynerchuk. Yeah, we haven't met him yet. And I swear I'm gonna go so hard.
[06:10]
Caroline Hirons
Okay, so we all need to manifest Gary Vee. We're gonna take the shit out of you. You'll not meet them without me. I will get on a plane the same day.
[06:18]
Alexis
I'm glad we're all in the same page.
[06:20]
Christina
We're all on the same page to go back. I mean. Yes. So Gary Vaynerchuk was like, you know, three, three TikToks a day. Just keep going, just put it out there.
[06:26]
Caroline Hirons
Don't care about perfection. I was. Before that I was. When he Said, you go on Twitter, you write two tweets, that becomes your next Instagram post. And then you just do the full circle of.
[06:34]
Christina
You know, I also want to emphasize that it also, it wasn't by accident. Cause I think like a lot of people see an overnight success. I'm like, oh, it might have been by accident. I studied this platform also in 2020. I hashtag beauty product development. And I asked Alexis, like, how come no one's be product developing on TikTok on social media?
[06:51]
Alexis
And of course I had a smart remark for her, like, we can't share proprietary information.
[06:55]
Caroline Hirons
All right, Coca Cola.
[06:56]
Christina
Yeah, exactly. But it never occurred to her that, wow, I can just be the product evaluate, which is what I do already.
[07:02]
Alexis
With lives already that are out on the market. It never clicked.
[07:05]
Caroline Hirons
That's what got me in, because that's what I do. I was immediately like. Because I didn't know and I was like, oh, this woman must be in product development.
[07:12]
Christina
Yes.
[07:13]
Caroline Hirons
Because the way you talk about the.
[07:13]
Christina
Product and you know, backtrack to us having our first lipsticks that we did.
[07:18]
Alexis
29 in Italy launched this Italian, you know, Italian manufactured lipstick for SKUs.
[07:23]
Christina
Yeah. I remember posting on Instagram back then because TikTok wasn't even thing like 2018, 2019. And I remember posting an image of those lipsticks in Italy, hashtagging made in Italy. Because to me, I thought it was very much like the fashion industry. And I am not in the beginning beauty industry. I'm in education, you know, like, so I'm learning so much on this journey. And I thought that the things that Alexis explained to me and I'm very spoiled, right? Because I have this expert around me all the time that's a beauty product developer and evaluator, also a makeup artist and makeup artist. All these things. I thought people knew this about the beauty industry. And I would often, you know, during COVID I would go over her friend's house and they would take all these products that were unreleased from all around the world that they're developing for brands, and they'd be swatching it and we would do karaoke and they would be guessing where it was made.
[08:08]
Alexis
We'd be drunk, evaluating, guessing the manufacturer.
[08:11]
Caroline Hirons
Isn't that the best?
[08:11]
Christina
Right. But they'd be guessing the country of origin.
[08:14]
Alexis
So we'd play the game. The game that happened literally by accident, but also the game that every product developer out there that's listening knows to some extent when something launches. You're wondering who did it.
[08:26]
Christina
Yeah, right, Exactly.
[08:27]
Caroline Hirons
When you're behind the curtain and you see and you think, oh, this is classic.
[08:31]
Alexis
Right.
[08:32]
Christina
And Alexa started to take me to makeup shows and I got to see all of these manufacturers and really understand how the beauty product development life cycle works and how the beauty industry operates.
[08:42]
Alexis
She was an outsider, and that was the best part about it.
[08:44]
Christina
Right. And having this beauty brand, I learned so much. So that first viral video is really that game that's just kind of like a synthesis of all of our experiences, which was like, okay, so guess where this beauty product is made based on you being a beauty product developer. And it's a game. We played once before that first viral video. Once or twice, I think.
[09:02]
Alexis
And it was funny because it was a little viral. It was also with makeup by Mario. It was right before our wedding was.
[09:07]
Christina
Makeup by Mario that really went viral. And it was the new foundation.
[09:11]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, yeah.
[09:12]
Christina
And he did Alexis.
[09:13]
Alexis
He's done my makeup. It was one of the most amazing experiences I've had on this journey. There's many.
[09:17]
Christina
It was quite beautiful. It's a high.
[09:18]
Alexis
He's on the highlight reel. Up high, for sure.
[09:20]
Christina
There's been a lot of full circle moments on this journey. But it, you know, it was also around the same time. That video was December 27th. We filmed it, we posted it December 29th.
[09:30]
Alexis
And by we, she means she, because I had no idea this was happening.
[09:33]
Christina
And it was right. Also at the same time where TikTok started to shift, not the algorithms, but I think the audience from that desire of short, short, short form to more long form. And it was on the longer side. It was like 47 seconds or something like that.
[09:47]
Caroline Hirons
Wow.
[09:47]
Christina
Right. Which is not a 15 second video. Which back then, I don't know if you remember, like, TikTok used to be really, really short back then. Right. So it was right at that time where people started to expand their desire for longer form content. And we really thrived on longer form content. Not long form YouTube, like 45 minutes, but I'm talking about like a minute videos that. With juicy information. And so that was the recipe to our success. It was, let's really edutain, right, and build this beauty literacy in this 1 minute to 1 minute, 30 seconds. And it was a challenge because it's not easy to fill in everything that Alexis knows.
[10:24]
Alexis
No, no, it wasn't easy. And it wasn't easy to keep me, you know, tame for a 60 second video. And like, I'd want to go on for 17 minutes and Christine, we'd be in Sephora and her arm is about to fall off. And she'd be like, all right, babe, come on, bring it home for me. Let's go.
[10:38]
Christina
And I think the dynamic of us together as well, you know, with me asking the questions. Cause me truly not being in the VD industry, I think is such a big forte that we have, because.
[10:47]
Caroline Hirons
What's your background? So give us your background.
[10:49]
Christina
Yeah, so my background, I was an English teacher for about eight years. Then I worked in education technology for the New York City Department of Education, now New York City Public Schools. I got my PhD.
[10:59]
Caroline Hirons
It is crazy.
[11:00]
Christina
I got my PhD in education technology. So for me, I understand how people best learn using digital platforms. So when I was studying TikTok, I was studying it how that blend of how people are learning what is resonating with people. And that is a big reason as to why our platform is so education centric. First, because I'm asking questions the same way I would ask questions for my students in the classroom too, when I was an English teacher. The same way I would ask questions of the teachers and administrators, and they were using how to learn these technologies that they weren't familiar with, which happened during COVID which is a whole other situation. Because technology and education during COVID really, metamorphosis was needed. It was a lifeline. Right. Which is a different conversation. But with TikTok and what we've done.
[11:40]
Alexis
Yeah, that in itself.
[11:41]
Christina
And there was using an education framework with beauty that has now been proven.
[11:46]
Alexis
And now we've basically merged Christina's education frameworks and her education frameworks and the way to apply them onto the beauty industry. And not just onto the industry, but onto something that we have in our course. For example, it's called the product development anchor wheel. And the way that we're approaching education for product development has never really been done before. It's like when Kevin aucoin launched his books on how artists became makeup artists and. And put that power into the hands of really millions of people, if not more, at this point. And the benefit of doing this via video and doing it for free is what's happening presently. And this is not something that was conscious the first six months. The first six months was a giant sociological experiment.
[12:33]
Caroline Hirons
Cause you're just being. You correct.
[12:35]
Alexis
We're just existing.
[12:36]
Christina
We're still just existing in the first six months. The way this whole thing started is crazy. So that first viral video, just to backtrack, right?
[12:44]
Alexis
We'll take you to the very first viral video. Like that day, essentially, that first viral.
[12:49]
Christina
Video also happened after Alexis got Hearing loss in one ear.
[12:52]
Alexis
Sudden senso neural hearing loss.
[12:54]
Christina
Lost. Her key client was the most depressed she's ever been.
[12:57]
Alexis
Lost something that was gonna become like a full fledged full time job opportunity in January. And it just, it didn't.
[13:05]
Christina
It was really wild. And the impetus to me really making that video was, I think you're so talented, babe. And I want you to, I want you to get out of this depression and I want people to see how talented you are because I think you can get beauty product development clients if we make those viral.
[13:21]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, nice.
[13:21]
Christina
And that was the impetus. And so I didn't know this, by the way.
[13:25]
Alexis
I would have never agreed.
[13:26]
Christina
I actually hashtag beauty product development in that first video as well. And I was also really pleased that it went viral because then I remembered that in 2020 I was talking about beauty product development. I was like, yes, I have cracked it.
[13:37]
Alexis
You know, this was her moment of validation.
[13:39]
Christina
So I start a new job too. So I went to work for a VR ed tech startup.
[13:45]
Alexis
This is just as virality hits.
[13:47]
Christina
Yep. Right as we're going viral.
[13:49]
Alexis
Five days of virality, she starts a new job.
[13:51]
Caroline Hirons
Then really great timing.
[13:53]
Christina
Yeah. And we're not really getting clients. We're just like going viral. I mean, some people were reaching out here and there.
[13:57]
Alexis
Yeah, I did get a couple clients. I got like what I call like resuscitation clients in the sense of it could resuscitate me. Like my. Just my self esteem of like, let's get back into this. And we at the time fall back.
[14:09]
Christina
In love with beauty. Right, right.
[14:11]
Alexis
And maybe I don't leave the industry because I was ready to be out and be done after the very discouraged.
[14:16]
Christina
You didn't see people like you on platform. I think it was also very discouraging, like seeing your role models.
[14:22]
Alexis
Where are they? Yeah, no, they weren't on TikTok, that's for sure.
[14:26]
Christina
So two months after we go viral, I get let go from my job. So now we're both unemployed, we're making.
[14:33]
Alexis
Zero money, and we live in Brooklyn and we own a condo and we have a mortgage to pay.
[14:37]
Christina
And, you know, I get such a small severance because I was only at the company for two months. Right. Like, I really didn't want to go back to the public education system. I was like, I just want to go back to school.
[14:45]
Alexis
She would have had to go back.
[14:46]
Christina
To my classroom too.
[14:47]
Caroline Hirons
I was like, oh, how old did you teach? What ages?
[14:50]
Christina
Oh, I was high school. I was high school English teaching.
[14:52]
Alexis
Yeah.
[14:52]
Christina
And you know, I was I wanted that behind me. Like, you know, like when you just graduate, you know, it's like you don't want to go backwards to. So that's how it felt. And I was like, oh gosh, what do we do? So it was like, okay, we have a six month Runway. Let's figure out what, you know, how far we can take this social media thing.
[15:07]
Alexis
How long can we last on credit cards and a dream, worst case scenario, the rest of our savings to pay our mortgage. That was the question mark one day that we had and we faced that.
[15:18]
Christina
And we said to ourselves, we calculated.
[15:20]
Alexis
The number as good entrepreneurs would.
[15:22]
Christina
We said to ourselves that the worst case scenario is that we just, we get new jobs, get other jobs and let's see how far we could take this in six months. And then at the six month mark, right. In June, we signed management and we started monetizing and now it's much better.
[15:35]
Caroline Hirons
Thank God.
[15:36]
Alexis
Now we know how to do it.
[15:37]
Christina
You can work full time and do social media content creation if you do it strategically and you do it all.
[15:42]
Alexis
As a full time creator.
[15:43]
Christina
Right, right, as a full time creator.
[15:44]
Alexis
But we would not have been able to achieve that and what we achieved if we weren't both working full time on the content creation because it really.
[15:52]
Christina
Needed a lot of time, a lot of attention, a lot of cutting, a lot of editing. Because we posted three videos a day for basically a year and a half.
[16:01]
Alexis
Yes. We weren't allowed to miss a day.
[16:03]
Christina
Christina's rules the church of Gary Vaynerchuk.
[16:08]
Caroline Hirons
That's insane.
[16:10]
Alexis
It was wild.
[16:11]
Christina
But you know, Alexis is so knowledgeable about the industry that it was documenting, not creating.
[16:18]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[16:18]
Christina
You know, like it's one thing to, you know, curate a whole thing. And look, sometimes we created like we do these showdowns and we like dress foundations up and like we did Halloween costumes and stuff like that. It's fun. Like that's creating. But like we're going into Sephora and she's noticing that the Fenty Eavesdrop stick is dried out because doesn't have a cap on. And people should know because if you're going into the store that consistency is not going to be the same and it goes viral. Like that's just top line knowledge that as a beauty product developer, it's like.
[16:43]
Caroline Hirons
I was walking through Sephora, it's. And I'm just picking everything.
[16:46]
Alexis
Yeah.
[16:46]
Caroline Hirons
Just like that shouldn't be there. This needs to move here. Why hasn't this been done? What is this? And if that's. If, if it's what you do. You shop in a different way, but.
[16:54]
Christina
Like, it's basic knowledge for the experts, but not for the masses. And now there's, like this shift that I think that we've caused too, in the industry, which is like this desire for these consumers, the beauty community, to know more, like, what is the manufacturing process? The appetite has been so, so open and it's just really cool to see.
[17:13]
Alexis
And I think in many ways, in your experiences, how many years have you been content creating? Right.
[17:18]
Caroline Hirons
In the 2000, I was on Twitter. 2009.
[17:22]
Alexis
Right. And then blog.
[17:24]
Caroline Hirons
2010, YouTube, 2014. And then insta. Whenever it started.
[17:26]
Alexis
Right. And what has the appetite of the consumer from back then to now? Like, the shifts. Right. The knowledge that.
[17:33]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, I think it sounds like there's a sort of parallel in what. And how you started in and how I started, because I was just educating.
[17:42]
Alexis
Right.
[17:42]
Caroline Hirons
My blog, my skincare blog had, like, by the time we were an esthetician. Yeah. Which means we archived it into the body of our brand. So it's still there. It was on 180 million page views, which for a blog, wow, was huge.
[17:55]
Alexis
I mean, I'm looking at your skin right now. I'm like, I want to know what she's using.
[17:59]
Caroline Hirons
We've got bags for you out there. Don't worry. But the blog was all education. It was cheat sheets, because that's what we would use when we were absolutely cheat sheets. You know, it was all written cheat sheets. My first blog post was how to cleanse properly, how to massage, cleansing, mass.
[18:13]
Alexis
Which. Which. Who teaches you this? Nobody. Where is it?
[18:16]
Caroline Hirons
And that led to the book.
[18:17]
Alexis
Right.
[18:18]
Caroline Hirons
Which, you know, Instagram got bigger and then I would call things out that were wrong and that put me up against the industry a lot, but I didn't care because I knew I was right. Yeah, right. You know when Gwynneth Paltrow said she only uses SPF where the sun hits, and did this.
[18:30]
Alexis
Oh, wow.
[18:31]
Christina
Oh, my gosh.
[18:32]
Alexis
Wow.
[18:33]
Caroline Hirons
But I didn't do it. Just like a. She's wrong. I got every single Durham I know to write a thesis on why it was wrong. And then I put that on the blog.
[18:38]
Alexis
That's brilliant.
[18:39]
Caroline Hirons
You don't believe me? Read them.
[18:41]
Christina
Right, right.
[18:42]
Caroline Hirons
You know, so I never sort of. Yeah. I never backed down from a. From an argument. And now the difference is I don't. I don't sort of. I never chased it, but I would always be, like, ready to respond. And now I'm just like, oh, I.
[18:52]
Alexis
Can respect that now I'd let someone else fight.
[18:54]
Caroline Hirons
Now I'm like, you know what? If you want to put beef tallow on your face, enjoy melanoma, my friend. Like, knock yourself out.
[19:01]
Alexis
Yeah.
[19:02]
Caroline Hirons
You know, but it, I am beauty, retail and Facebook through and through. If you cut me in half like a stick of rock, like we would say in the uk, it would just be like beauty industry.
[19:11]
Alexis
Wow.
[19:12]
Caroline Hirons
When I walk through, like we went into Sephora today and it was an absolute show.
[19:17]
Alexis
Yeah.
[19:17]
Caroline Hirons
And it just pains me. It pains me because I know that every single brand founder, if they walked in, they would be so sad to see their product showcased in that way.
[19:24]
Alexis
Right.
[19:25]
Caroline Hirons
Because if you don't, I don't know what's happened in Sephora recently, but if you don't get there at opening time.
[19:29]
Alexis
Yeah.
[19:30]
Caroline Hirons
There's no stock and it's filthy.
[19:31]
Alexis
Right.
[19:32]
Caroline Hirons
That's my experience. And I go into every single. I was here in April and we went into every single Sephora we walked past and the only one that was different was the Upper west side at 11am on a Sunday morning.
[19:40]
Alexis
Right. Because it was pristine or whatever. The situation had stopped. I think it's, it's so deeply rooted also in the popularity of beauty. I think whoever masterminded the moment that we said let's take the key away from a beauty advisor and let's stick a gondola and create open cell environments with testers, they never anticipated a group, an army of 10 or 15 year olds or however. We're not even putting an age on this. They never anticipated a group of people going in and having the free reign.
[20:10]
Caroline Hirons
To touch playing and playing, playing to.
[20:12]
Alexis
The extent and the volume that Sephora now drives. And whether we attribute that to social or we attribute that to the, you know, department stores losing favor in the US I know it's different in the uk, at least from what we understood in the very short stint we were there. And just from what we see in the comments and we have to go back to the UK and we have to pay homage to the department store, because those are my roots. I was born and bred on a sales floor in a retail department store. And that, that will shape you and that will teach you respect.
[20:43]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[20:44]
Alexis
And this respect for me became cumulative once we started to launch our own brand. And this is why when we're walking in and we're swatching product wherever we are, whether it's Ult or Sephora, we are having the lens of what it took to get that product there in our head, which, and what it took to sell that product when you were making, you know, 15 bucks an hour on the sales floor, which is, you know, what I was making back whenever. And that's the difference for me as a creator. Whereas not every creator necessarily has, you know, almost two decades behind them of what it took.
[21:17]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, most of the huge creators, probably present company respectfully excluded. Most of the big creators weren't born.
[21:24]
Alexis
Right.
[21:24]
Caroline Hirons
I started in the industry.
[21:25]
Alexis
Right?
[21:25]
Christina
Yeah. So wild.
[21:26]
Caroline Hirons
And so when you get people. Because I'll still get. Because I'm like a mother and a grandmother, I'll get people going. The diss is that I'm old and I'm like, you know what? Okay, I might be old. Number one, I can still kick your ass. Number two, don't with me around and find out, like, you know, I've reached that menopause later on. Like, I just don't care.
[21:41]
Alexis
Right? You're over it.
[21:43]
Caroline Hirons
But number three, I've you and you in your head. You say, I've forgotten more than you've ever learned. Like, like, you know, you're just like. But ultimately it comes from having such a massive love for the industry. And that's why. That's why I get.
[21:55]
Alexis
Don't disrespect me and don't disrespect the industry. I love. Don't disrespect my industries.
[22:00]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. When I go into a Sephora any. Because it doesn't happen in department stores. They're clean and tidy.
[22:05]
Alexis
Right.
[22:06]
Caroline Hirons
Because everyone looks after everyone's counter and there's that village there has to be there. When I go into a Sephora and it's messy, it makes me depressed.
[22:14]
Christina
Yeah.
[22:14]
Caroline Hirons
I'm just like, guys, you are one of the flagships in the us. You are the flagship. Right. I'm sorry, but work harder.
[22:20]
Alexis
Yeah. You got to make or staff differently or get more creative. Right.
[22:24]
Caroline Hirons
Get more people. They're all standing around trying to sell to you. But this dirty tissue on the floor and it's. Anyway, yeah, I hear you.
[22:30]
Alexis
I understand.
[22:31]
Caroline Hirons
It really winds me up. We, as you can tell, we always.
[22:33]
Alexis
Go in and I take, like, I'll take an alcohol spray bottle. I take wet ones.
[22:38]
Caroline Hirons
But why would you have to do that?
[22:39]
Alexis
Right?
[22:40]
Caroline Hirons
Why do you have to.
[22:41]
Alexis
I mean, also, we're a unique circumstance because we're in this watching and we're trying to be really.
[22:45]
Christina
We probably mentioned Sephora more than any.
[22:47]
Alexis
Other because we have access to more of them. There's only two Ultas in Manhattan.
[22:51]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, that's true. We went into ultrasound. It was clean. It just was uninspiring.
[22:54]
Alexis
Right.
[22:54]
Christina
Yeah.
[22:55]
Alexis
Well, the 86th street location is different.
[22:58]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[22:58]
Alexis
In case you're looking to go up.
[22:59]
Caroline Hirons
There, I did that one in April.
[23:00]
Alexis
Okay, good. And I love. It's bigger.
[23:03]
Caroline Hirons
Don't get me wrong, I love all of them. And I. Every time I shop in a Sephora, if I'm here two, three times a year, with every sale, I'm a vib.
[23:08]
Alexis
Yeah.
[23:09]
Caroline Hirons
Because I'm like Chung Chung Chun. I'm a consumer. Right.
[23:12]
Alexis
So you have a level.
[23:14]
Caroline Hirons
Raise the bar.
[23:14]
Alexis
Right.
[23:15]
Caroline Hirons
Raise the bar.
[23:16]
Alexis
And maybe it's. This is a calling to the. To the. The new era of department stores in the U.S. anyway, this is a calling to reinvent open sale for the new market that's been totally, really, ultimately saturated thanks to social. But. And like, here's the calling for whoever wants to listen to it. And like, what are the things that people will value their experience. But also, how are we training this staff to go back to what we spoke about earlier? Because when we walk into Sephora's and Ultas, we are received by this staff like we are the gods and goddesses of the industry.
[23:49]
Christina
Some of the biggest fans. It's really sweet. Right.
[23:51]
Alexis
Because we're helping them.
[23:52]
Caroline Hirons
It's a very different experience.
[23:54]
Alexis
Right.
[23:54]
Christina
Yeah.
[23:55]
Caroline Hirons
Because. And it's the same with me in the uk, it's flipped.
[23:57]
Alexis
Yeah.
[23:57]
Caroline Hirons
When I go into a beauty department or a space NK in the uk, everyone knows who I am and.
[24:03]
Alexis
But I'd imagine you've also helped them learn.
[24:06]
Caroline Hirons
Yes.
[24:06]
Alexis
To help them be better.
[24:08]
Caroline Hirons
I used to be a trainer in space. In case.
[24:09]
Alexis
Exactly.
[24:10]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, I get DMs from people every day saying, hi, Caroline. You know, it's great to see you doing so well. You trained me 15 years ago on Anthony for Men and I'm like, Christ, that was a long time ago.
[24:18]
Alexis
Yeah. But this is the gift that you've given to the industry.
[24:20]
Christina
Yeah.
[24:21]
Alexis
And it's. It's. You didn't take your knowledge and stick it in a silo and open a boutique spa and do facials for two decades. You entered the blog sphere, you proliferated that information out and you leveled the consumer up.
[24:35]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[24:36]
Alexis
It's like you were part of the early stage, phase one of the transformation of what we see today.
[24:40]
Caroline Hirons
For sure.
[24:41]
Alexis
And that's beautiful. And it's like that deserves its own little celebration. And it's. And in doing so, where are we today and what. Where is the expectation?
[24:52]
Caroline Hirons
I am passing the baton.
[24:53]
Alexis
Ah, exactly.
[24:54]
Christina
Yeah.
[24:55]
Caroline Hirons
You take that baton, girls. And you run with it, girls. I'll be behind you going. You go get them. I'm just gonna have a cup of tea.
[25:01]
Christina
No.
[25:01]
Caroline Hirons
Quite tired. And like to hang out with the grand.
[25:03]
Alexis
We're here now. And we were. We've been sprinting for. For almost two years.
[25:07]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[25:08]
Alexis
And it's time to pace ourselves.
[25:11]
Caroline Hirons
And how do you do that? What do you. What are you gonna do? Because I had a whole list of questions. But it. We'll get back.
[25:16]
Alexis
Yeah.
[25:16]
Caroline Hirons
How do you. What's next? What are you gonna. Because you're only just getting started, really. Because I know when you're two years in and you're getting all the attention is when you're like, oh, I could go this part. I could do this. I could do this. But because you're older.
[25:28]
Alexis
Correct.
[25:29]
Caroline Hirons
Fiercely intelligent. I know you're not going to go out there and just do any paid job you can get.
[25:33]
Alexis
Right.
[25:33]
Caroline Hirons
That's what I didn't do. And I think that's why my credibility stayed. I never lost credibility. I never did an ad that I wouldn't back. I said no to so much money. I said no to licensing deals. I said no to doing collabs with everything. The first collab I did was with Pixie. And that's because we had an affinity. Because I had made Glow tonic and the whole scheme blow up. And they openly said that was all one post I did on the blog, which was. This is a dupe thing. P50.
[25:55]
Christina
Yeah.
[25:55]
Caroline Hirons
Back in the days when you would say that. I was very clear that it wasn't an actual dupe.
[25:58]
Alexis
Right. It was the closest you're gonna get at that price.
[26:01]
Caroline Hirons
£16 on an acid. Do this one rather than 95, you know. And so I held off so that when I did launch my own brand, people knew they could trust it. I wasn't going to really release. I've never done the. And I know that you two aren't going to do any of that, but are you gonna. Like. We're getting lipsticks. What we getting here?
[26:18]
Christina
I just want to validate that we too, say no to a lot of offers. We get.
[26:22]
Caroline Hirons
No. I know I can. I'm sure. I can only imagine what must be coming your way.
[26:26]
Christina
You could imagine sometimes when there's like a brand disaster, sometimes they'll reach out and offer money to, like, say something to clean it up and it's just like, no, no. And we'll make an organic video about why that product is failing instead.
[26:38]
Caroline Hirons
I did a video once on YouTube that was one of the sort of favorites at the time, which was nice juice. Shame about the packaging. No one had ever critiqued in that way before.
[26:49]
Alexis
Right.
[26:49]
Christina
Yeah.
[26:49]
Caroline Hirons
And this is. I mean, you can probably Google when it was. If it was like 10 years ago, maybe eight years ago. And it was, I love the juice, the formula is great. But this. Who the invented this packaging?
[26:58]
Alexis
Right.
[26:59]
Caroline Hirons
And one of them was Estee Lauder's Advanced Night Repair Eye, the one with. Used to have a stick. So I opened it and I went, I've got to tell you, when I got this, I thought two things. One, it's broken because there's no soft ending. You. You want me to poke a plastic.
[27:10]
Alexis
Stick around my eyes and that's the most sensitive area of your skin.
[27:13]
Caroline Hirons
Two, it was made by men.
[27:14]
Alexis
Yeah.
[27:15]
Christina
Well, there's that problem in many industries, especially with technology as well.
[27:20]
Caroline Hirons
They didn't respond. Yeah, they changed the packaging.
[27:22]
Alexis
Right. Don't think for one second that we're not the front lines in many instances. And I think for us, what year one taught us was the. The opportunities to, as you said, you passed the baton. Metaphorically. Right. And the baton has been passed, I think, by many, in a sense. Whereas we're a new era of influencer breed where we have expertise to go in and consult with brands, which is what we're doing more so presently, you.
[27:46]
Christina
Know, brands also don't know what to do with us because it's like. And we need to be careful as well because it's very easy to be taken advantage of this amazing beauty, product development expertise. But they may want to pay you for a video, but they're just like, give me all of this free consulting.
[27:59]
Alexis
Right.
[27:59]
Caroline Hirons
That's very dangerous. And did my own brand.
[28:02]
Alexis
Right.
[28:02]
Caroline Hirons
That's what, that's why I went full blog and stopped consulting, because I consulted from like 2008. I started consulting in the UK when the crash hit here. The market is 2008, 2009, and it just happened to be perfect timing because all the American brands, they couldn't afford sending one to the uk. So I got a few of them on retainer and I was flying right. I would go around the UK training all the space in K doors, all the smaller brands that couldn't afford. I do all the trainings, I'd look after them, I'd make sure they got stock and testers. And I just did that for a few years. And then I started the blog in 2010 and then the shift happened where if I was consulting for brands, I'll tell You afterwards, who they would expect to be on the blog for free.
[28:40]
Alexis
Yeah, exactly.
[28:40]
Caroline Hirons
Because I'd started monetizing the blog. There came a point where I went, right, well, this has to go away because I can't be stifled.
[28:45]
Christina
Yeah.
[28:45]
Caroline Hirons
I can't say this is shit.
[28:48]
Alexis
Right.
[28:48]
Caroline Hirons
If you're paying me, I, you know, and you don't listen to me, I'm still going to want to give you my opinion. So this had to go away.
[28:53]
Alexis
Right.
[28:54]
Caroline Hirons
Then the delicate dance and the blog came and I thought, well, now I have to go all in and do the monetization, but I still have to feed the kids, right?
[29:02]
Christina
Yeah.
[29:02]
Caroline Hirons
So I need to make the right babies.
[29:03]
Alexis
We talk about, we talk about that.
[29:05]
Christina
And you know that that is on the roadmap, right? Like talk about being older and, you.
[29:08]
Alexis
Know, we talk about feeding our babies. Not, not metaphorical ones. Literally.
[29:12]
Christina
The biological clock is real. We need a thing. Think about that. So we're hoping.
[29:17]
Alexis
I'm not saying we're sprinting to a finish line of a brand that's not happening, but we have. The one really big project that we've been working on for over a year has been this course it's a culmination of. It's like the gift that Christina and my brain. And then we also brought in a chemist. It's Mr. Cosmetic Chemist. His name is Julio Pina, Mr. Pineapple. He's our chemist bestie. We call him our honorary husband.
[29:43]
Caroline Hirons
He's all the things everyone needs, an honorary husband. I have quite a few.
[29:49]
Alexis
So we brought him in. And when you take our cumulative experience, it's basically almost 60 years of knowledge. 40 from beauty, 20 from education, you mash it up. It's our gift to the world of beauty. Because if we elevate every single beauty executive or aspiring beauty executive with knowledge that never existed before, you give them a jump start. We're putting activator on an industry that has an education problem.
[30:12]
Caroline Hirons
Not just really does.
[30:13]
Christina
I mean, you look at some of these influencers as well. And what I think has been really interesting is, is that now content creators, whether they say it or not, are.
[30:22]
Alexis
Watching our content wipers and they're learning.
[30:25]
Christina
About and they're learning and they're using the same terminology. And we're not always getting credit, and that's okay, but I know we're elevating.
[30:31]
Caroline Hirons
To that someone who's far down the road. You have to take it as a compliment. Unless they actually rip you off, in which case, call me. I've also been there. I've also been there. When it comes to healthy skin, collagen is queen. It's basically the scaffolding that keeps your skin firm, bouncy and hydrated. And if you're wondering if you really need a collagen supplement, the answer is yes. Especially if you're over 25 and gravity has started doing its thing. Sadly, collagen drops off a cliff as we age. How rude. But Ancient and Brave's true collagen is a fantastic way to give your skin its mojo back. Exceptional quality and ethically produced true collagen contains highly absorbable collagen peptides and is scientifically shown to support skin elasticity, hydration and firmness. Just one scoop a day is a simple way to nourish your skin and body from within. It's tasteless. No, really. It's really tasteless, guys. Dissolves like a dream and will not ruin your morning cuppa. Glowing skin, stronger nails, and hair that actually behaves itself. Yes, please. Ancient and Brave are proud members of 1% for the planet, meaning that 1% of their sale goes directly to environmental causes that protect our planet. Every time you buy from Ancient and Brave, you're not just investing in your well being. You're contributing to a healthier planet too. To experience true collagen for yourself, visit AncientAndBrave Earth Planet and use Caroline for 20% off your first order. Here we are, folks. The most insanely efficacious, sensorial, luxurious cleansing balm in the world has landed. I don't need to tell you what it takes to put my name to a cleansing balm. And this one had one mother of a brief. The skin Rocks cleansing balm is the best balm ever created and one I would choose every single time over anything I've ever used. Five rollercoaster years of fearless ambition, sky high expectation, tears, triumphs and F bombs. No pressure then. But what a result. Undoubtedly my most anticipated product. This was by far the hardest to make. The texture and crunch that took four years to perfect. Its ability to decimate literally everything on your face. The R in a jar scent, the paperweight, heavy hot pink glass. I mean, literally everything I adore in a cleanser has been distilled into one glorious jar. And it is absolutely, absolutely spectacular. Transforming from a solid balm to a rich replenishing oil, this barrier nourishing balm is formulated with the same innovative lipid advanced complex as the support oil to deliver supreme skin barrier support and help improve skin firmness, elasticity and hydration. There is simply nothing like it. It's £55. It's ready and waiting. And there is no dupe. The two things that Brandon did from deciem was he stirred up the interest. He also confused a lot of people and used it to make a great deal amount of money with the ordinary. Fair play.
[33:29]
Alexis
Yeah.
[33:30]
Caroline Hirons
And he told me that's exactly what he was doing. He said, I'm going to disrupt, I'm going to, I'm going to cause confusion. People will buy more product, it'll be cheaper. And that was his actual God.
[33:37]
Alexis
I remember buying the original hairline in Canada when it had launched in the coolest boutique, bringing it home to you, telling you all about it. He's launching 10 brands at once. His offices are. I mean, I must have applied for like 10 of those different jobs in like his office in Hoboken back then, but I, I remember that moment and I've watched all be disruptive.
[33:55]
Caroline Hirons
He told me all he was negotiations with Sephora.
[33:57]
Alexis
Right.
[33:57]
Caroline Hirons
Because he loved to talk.
[33:58]
Alexis
Yeah, yeah.
[33:59]
Caroline Hirons
You know, he talked. He would talk me through his product to go, this is the exact same product of this. Mine's not going to go off. There's is. And I was just like this, this man's a genius.
[34:06]
Alexis
Yeah.
[34:07]
Caroline Hirons
And then. But what he did, which was the negative is make everyone think they're a fucking chemist.
[34:12]
Alexis
Right?
[34:12]
Caroline Hirons
Like people would argue with me about product and I'm like, right, because you're.
[34:17]
Alexis
Teaching them about acids now. Because you're teaching them. Right.
[34:19]
Caroline Hirons
You know when the TikTok trend happened of the glycolic 7% under roller. And I was like, if you're going to do that, your face is going to fall off. Peace be with you, my friend. And then the next day was his face screaming and crying and I'm like, if only someone had told you.
[34:33]
Alexis
Well, that's the downside of, of the. When we say like it's a viral storm or it's a viral tsunami, it's like in the negative connotation there's happy virality and there's positive virality and then there's when the product goes to market and it just spirals and it spirals and it takes 18 different turns it was never supposed to take. And it goes back to. I always, we always ask why, why would. Would a product do that? Well, because creators don't have education to share, so they have no choice sometimes but to do the viral salacious thing. And then the consumer on the end is getting conditioned to love drama, to be addicted to it. Clickbait. Exactly. And it kills. It kills the art of creating for education.
[35:16]
Caroline Hirons
Education.
[35:18]
Alexis
And to go back to just, like, ultimately, like, the goal here and like, why. When we started, it was pure education. It was documenting, and it caught, like, con. Like wildfire. So we didn't have to make adjustments, but we certainly had to make it fun.
[35:30]
Christina
Oh, yeah.
[35:31]
Alexis
And it still has to be made fun. And that's the art. And for us, the way I describe our journey and the way that we talk about it, it's kind of funny. It's very much like cuisine. Traveling the world and tasting global cuisine. Year two of this is which cuisine tastes the best? And what do I want to eat most frequently?
[35:52]
Caroline Hirons
And what do you want to eat most frequently? What skincare are we looking at? I'm doing skincare. What are we. What are you, like, at the moment? Where are we at?
[36:00]
Alexis
Okay, I'm like, what's on? I have. I also form really deep connections with brands that have founders that I meet and I can bond with. So I've been a huge fan of Beekman, 1802's brand. They're MilkRx. They have Exosome technology. It's a sensorial texture. Beautiful absorption. It leaves my skin feeling super smooth. I've played around with you Beauty. I like the sequencing and the simplicity of the resurfacing compound and layering the moisturizer on top. I like the radiant, like, the radiance it gives me. Naturally, I'll play with K Beauty, but am I a lover of, like, can we discuss.
[36:37]
Caroline Hirons
Because I get. So. It's a lot, but so many requests, and particularly because of where we live. I mean, I'm in. You know, I'm in the uk.
[36:44]
Alexis
Yeah.
[36:45]
Caroline Hirons
And people are going like, we don't really talk about K Beauty. I'm like, I don't live in Korea.
[36:48]
Christina
Right.
[36:48]
Caroline Hirons
I don't know what to tell you. They have humidity. They have a very different.
[36:52]
Alexis
Such a different atmosphere.
[36:54]
Caroline Hirons
So, yes, a lot of the stuff they do that's hydrating and light and layering is what you need.
[36:59]
Alexis
Yes.
[37:00]
Caroline Hirons
If I use that, my face would fall off.
[37:01]
Alexis
Right.
[37:02]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, I need richer creams. I need emollients. I need. I need, like, I need it to be. I can't do light and feathery.
[37:09]
Alexis
Yeah, no, of course. I have, like. I have a. We have a lazy Susan. Christina by default, like, yells at me because I switch things up.
[37:14]
Christina
But, like, I know I never find anything. I was like, I'm a loyalist. They'll send me one product. I'll use it for like, years. Like, Alexis is rotating.
[37:21]
Alexis
You have to rotate and you have to explore. So I do have a bit of Shani Darden on the. On the lazy Susan again.
[37:29]
Caroline Hirons
You beauty.
[37:30]
Alexis
I have Beekman. These are things that are on, like, systemic rotation where I'll use them. I'm reaching for them often.
[37:36]
Christina
Tatcha.
[37:37]
Alexis
Tatcha is something that has, like, if they. There's a new line that's coming that I'm trying, I'm exploring. There's some new ingredient stories. So let's see what the deal is. But I'm also. I'm a longevity regenerative guru, wellness girly, so to speak. So, like, I'm trying an NAD cream that I got from my doctor. I have psoriasis on my chest, of all places.
[37:58]
Christina
A recent development.
[37:59]
Alexis
Yeah. And I'm playing with nad and I'll play with different styles of creams. And I also have my wizard chemist friend who will mix concoctions up for me. And that's something that's newer.
[38:11]
Caroline Hirons
It's a perk.
[38:11]
Alexis
But it's also. It's in the spirit of is my soul in skincare. I know I need it for my makeup to look good, but at my core, I'm making you a foundation, a concealer, a powder.
[38:23]
Caroline Hirons
I'm making you go there, right?
[38:25]
Alexis
And that's like, where I'll have five skin complexion products on rotation seasonally.
[38:34]
Caroline Hirons
And what's number one first in your head? Go right thing.
[38:36]
Alexis
Right now. I've been using Polite Society because it's like a gel base white down list. Second to Polite Society's gel cream. You can shear her out. It's more Gillette. It's not truly a gel cream, but it operates like a gel would. If I'm wanting, like, silicone and I want to be dressed up evening sexy, I'm going to reach for House Labs.
[38:56]
Caroline Hirons
I won't pick Foundation Foundation.
[38:59]
Alexis
Her Triclone, House Labs, Triclone concealer. There's nothing on the market that will last quite as long as that.
[39:07]
Caroline Hirons
This is key. So do you know Kevin James Bennett? Yes, he's one of my good friends. Okay. We're seeing him for dinner tonight. Cool. And last time I saw him in April, I said, okay, I'm at Sephora. What's the one thing I'm buying? And he know what he's like. He's very black and white. He went, and I quote, the only fucking thing worth your money in there is Haus Labs foundation and Casilla. And I was like.
[39:24]
Alexis
Cause it is Korean technology. But it's the best contract manufacturer, like in Korea, that's doing. Of course, there's some biotech infused, but there's the balancing of the materials to yield the result. Now, if you have really oily skin, you're gonna need some type of a blurring primer like Laura Mercier's to neutralize and soak up some of that oil. So can I wear House labs in August in Greece?
[39:49]
Caroline Hirons
No, no, no.
[39:51]
Alexis
Can I wear it in January?
[39:52]
Caroline Hirons
Do you wear anything in Greece? No, no.
[39:54]
Alexis
I'd wear my Chanel water tint.
[39:56]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, the dream. Just the minute. That smell. Because I like the beige.
[40:00]
Alexis
Yeah.
[40:00]
Caroline Hirons
I'm older. I like le beige. Give me anything that makes me look like I haven't just been dug up.
[40:05]
Alexis
Yeah.
[40:05]
Caroline Hirons
Because in the morning I look this color.
[40:06]
Alexis
Yeah.
[40:07]
Caroline Hirons
I'm. You know when you get over a certain age, when you won't know, but when you are post menopausal. I'm 55, the shop is closed. Trade only. The shop is closed. Like, we're done.
[40:17]
Alexis
I don't know. I'm at a lot of biohacking.
[40:19]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, that would be a miracle. I went. I went to. I went for a into uterine scan. He's like, Justin's like, Jesus Christ. Like a year or so ago. And they said, oh, yeah. Do you remember?
[40:33]
Alexis
She said, oh, like vaginal rejuvenation.
[40:35]
Caroline Hirons
No, no, no. It's like a checkup. Okay. And your wound. And she said, are you still. I can see a follicle. I went, I beg your pardon? What? What do you mean I've got a follicle? I found. My husband was like, so, dude, like, heads up. We could have like. And he's just like, don't be ridiculous. I'm like, I have one follicle. Wow. You know what? We're like, unbelievable.
[40:54]
Alexis
That's good news.
[40:54]
Caroline Hirons
Well, yeah, but I was ready for.
[40:57]
Alexis
The shock of youth.
[40:58]
Caroline Hirons
But you get to a certain age and you wake up and you're yellow. Yeah. If you're a Caucasian color.
[41:03]
Christina
Right.
[41:03]
Caroline Hirons
It's pink. Goes from your cheek, which is why you get to my age and all the women my age, especially in the north, just blusher, blush, blush, blush. Like people like, what's your desert? I'm like, blusher, mascara. I can do anything with them. They're like, blush. I'm like, if you want to give me a cream blush, I'll do eyes and lip too. But I have to have color on my cheeks or I look dead.
[41:18]
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely deceased.
[41:20]
Caroline Hirons
Done. Coffin done.
[41:22]
Alexis
I think what we're seeing now and I talk about this. Like, we've talked, we've spoken about this a lot. And it's funny to watch Christina's reactions and even she's realizing and recognizing things industry wide. But we're seeing cycles, right? We just saw like an insane volume of blush hit the market. We're seeing the cycle of sameness. We're seeing retailers. We had lip oil, we had lip balm then. Now we're gonna have the lip. Hybrids are gonna enter the chat. You're gonna see 85 million lip serums that plump and do this and no moisture. La, la, la, la, la. But it's gonna be the next generation of lip. Maybe we'll see higher opacities in these, meaning, you know, pigment loads. Of course we're going to see evolutions, but at the core, right, people are also forgetting that we're layering all these products on top of each other. And people are not thinking about necessarily how they're going to sit one on top of the other. And it's like we have this giant market of confused consumers with more product formats and more product categories than they ever needed and less understanding on how to use them than ever before.
[42:27]
Caroline Hirons
Because back Henshaw success, right?
[42:30]
Alexis
And that's. And that's where we're at. And this is part of.
[42:33]
Christina
It's like Alexis is a tour guide taking you through all of these speedy formats and, like, really breaking it down to the most basic. Well, in an attempt in the most basic way, making something super complex, actually very accessible, which is very challenging.
[42:46]
Alexis
Really, really, really, like, hard to do. And it goes back to the beginnings of, like, at the end of the day, like, it doesn't matter what foundation you make and what you put in it. If you don't have the right skincare and you have dead skin sitting on the surface of your face, it's gonna look like shit.
[42:58]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[42:59]
Alexis
And like, people don't understand this point still, like. And we'll get messages, and these are the same messages that I would get in 2006 at the makeup counter. Why is my nose getting patchy? Why is my under eye creasing? Because there's no creaseless concealer in the world. What's exciting, too, is we're seeing brands like Sarah Creel launch and hit the market. Who's naming the fact that she's a product developer.
[43:23]
Christina
That's huge.
[43:24]
Alexis
Really big moment for that word to be on a. On a gondola at Sephora.
[43:29]
Christina
I remember, you know, we were calling, you know, Alexis is obviously a Beauty product developer. But all people knew on TikTok were cosmetic chemists, so they automatically thought that Alexis was a chemist when we, we repeated it often, often, like all the time. And still even to this day, you're like, oh, you're a cosmetic chemist?
[43:44]
Caroline Hirons
Like, no, no, no.
[43:45]
Christina
So, like the idea of product development, like people thought that was a term we made up, like the lipstick lesbians.
[43:51]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, we did have a chat before. We did have a chat before and I was like, has anyone ever said to you, oh, where did you get the name? Not knowing? And just like, even now, if I see the old comment, I think, oh, bless.
[44:03]
Alexis
I know.
[44:03]
Christina
Also, we think about beauty product development too. We did not come up with the name beauty product development.
[44:08]
Caroline Hirons
It's quite shocking.
[44:09]
Christina
It is, it is, but it's.
[44:10]
Caroline Hirons
Again, it's a new group. I think you're spearheading a new group because there was. In the early days, it was makeup artists. Estheticians.
[44:18]
Alexis
Estheticians with an E?
[44:20]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[44:20]
Alexis
Not with an A. Also a distinction I want to make because people don't know the difference and I say that in a loving way and that's okay.
[44:28]
Caroline Hirons
So it was, it was both, both of us, you know, I would say us makeup artists because I came up with like the Pixie Woo girls, Sam and Nick Chapman and that. So there was makeup, there was skin, and then slowly there was cosmetic chemist first. And then the derms. The derms woke up, the derms went.
[44:44]
Alexis
Home leaving money on the table.
[44:46]
Caroline Hirons
Money.
[44:46]
Christina
Like cosmetic chemists.
[44:49]
Caroline Hirons
And then, oh, yeah, cosmetic chemists like Michelle Wong. She was there early. They were all there early. And the eco whale gen, they all, they were all there early. And we would all share information and they never spoke down to estheticians. They would, they would say, well, we don't know how it's going to work on this. I was just telling you what it should do.
[45:06]
Alexis
How could they.
[45:06]
Caroline Hirons
They probably never tell you what it should do, but. And I would say, well, you say that's going to do that. I'm telling you from hands on experience, this is how it reacts to skin. But then the Dermot type is different. Every skin is different. It's like a fingerprint. Every skin is different. The derms come in and we, we do joke about it in the uk, right? Because the American derms are the worst for it. Because they'll say, because in the UK the term dermatologist is a protected name. You can't use dermatologist, gynecologist unless you are one.
[45:32]
Christina
Right.
[45:32]
Caroline Hirons
So it's the board certified thing is when they're like, I'm a board certified dermatologist and we all go, oh, really? You never fucking mention it, literally. And I even said it to Sheree Nidra. I was like, oh, are you? I didn't know because it's teasing. It's very UK led banter, you know.
[45:47]
Alexis
Yeah.
[45:47]
Caroline Hirons
But the derms came in afterwards and then what was interesting was you're fine because you are very unique, but the derms and the cosmetic scientists are now kicking off.
[45:57]
Alexis
Oh, well, yeah. Don't think the chemist didn't come for us though.
[46:00]
Caroline Hirons
Well, interesting because the people who got left behind was my group because everyone assumes derms more than. Yeah, they do not.
[46:08]
Alexis
Which is because they don't interact with the client the way you do. They're. They're writing prescriptions for.
[46:13]
Caroline Hirons
They know skin diseases.
[46:16]
Alexis
Right.
[46:16]
Caroline Hirons
I don't need to know that now. So my. I've always said when people say, well, because America is very big, when you go to your dome, that doesn't happen in the UK where they're going to three, four year waiting list to see a dermatologist on the nhs.
[46:27]
Alexis
And that's. If you have a problem.
[46:28]
Caroline Hirons
That's. If you have a problem, you want to go and see one, you have to pay.
[46:32]
Alexis
Right.
[46:33]
Caroline Hirons
So we always sort of translated it as a facialist, as we would say in the uk is there to age your skin health.
[46:39]
Alexis
Right.
[46:40]
Caroline Hirons
If you have something that we know we can't help you with, we will.
[46:43]
Alexis
Send you to the derm. Like a disease or a disease.
[46:46]
Caroline Hirons
Something that may. If you need roacutane, like, if we go, we can't fix this with laser or microneedling or high frequency or anything like that. You need something much more invasive.
[46:55]
Alexis
And where do the injectors fall, the Botox or.
[46:59]
Caroline Hirons
It's all about to be changed by the government. Like you've had it in New York where the doctors have taken everything and left. Your esthetic petitions were nothing.
[47:06]
Christina
Yeah.
[47:06]
Caroline Hirons
Literally you can't even do radio frequency, which is insane. I've been doing that just years.
[47:10]
Alexis
That's crazy.
[47:11]
Caroline Hirons
And so they're trying to do in the uk, but I'm on. I'm the ambassador for the aesthetic side of the British Beauty Council. But we mean aesthetics, facials and treatments. So I'm there to speak for my people. Good, because you are not going to come in and do this and try and just get your hand into all.
[47:26]
Alexis
That pot of money just because the.
[47:28]
Caroline Hirons
Doctors see pound signs. Right. And it's not Every doctor. But those doctors don't go away and do aesthetic training. No, they don't go away and do.
[47:35]
Alexis
Which is. Is an art in itself.
[47:37]
Caroline Hirons
It is. So there's this whole thing that's going on in the uk, but we've kind of been left behind. So we're just kind of sitting like you guys argue it out amongst.
[47:43]
Alexis
Which is really ironic because you understand the intimacy of the interaction of product and skin better. Just like a makeup artist. You're the makeup artist of skincare.
[47:52]
Caroline Hirons
Exactly.
[47:52]
Christina
That's interesting.
[47:53]
Caroline Hirons
Literally. So the chemist will openly say, we don't touch face.
[47:56]
Alexis
Right.
[47:56]
Caroline Hirons
The derms. Well, some derms, not all. Some derms sometimes will try and make out that all they do is touch faces all day. No, they don't. You see, you look, you write prescription, they're done.
[48:04]
Alexis
Yeah. Oh, my God. You're in there for 17 seconds. I counted once how long I had a cyst on my arm. I was like, this is going to cost me a $50 copay. But also, how long is this he going to look at?
[48:14]
Caroline Hirons
Yep. Okay. Boom, boom, done. And so no solution.
[48:18]
Alexis
No, of course not.
[48:19]
Caroline Hirons
But show us the same respect. My basic training was 300 hours.
[48:23]
Alexis
Yeah.
[48:24]
Caroline Hirons
My basic.
[48:24]
Alexis
And then how many years?
[48:26]
Caroline Hirons
20. Yeah. Let's multiply. What, two kids and two grandkids?
[48:31]
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[48:31]
Caroline Hirons
I had two kids when I did my training. So why did the cosmetic chemist come for you?
[48:35]
Alexis
Well, this is. This is the. The situation. It's. They, in a sense, felt, I believe, there was a bit of a threat. Threat to them.
[48:42]
Christina
However, when we first exploded, I think there was just some different perspectives, kind of like text messages, where sometimes, like a text message is read but you can be misinterpreted. Right. And it's just like. And it's in the comment section and.
[48:55]
Alexis
It'S just like, that's not what we meant.
[48:57]
Caroline Hirons
That never comes across that you're going for it.
[48:59]
Alexis
No.
[49:00]
Christina
You know, and I.
[49:00]
Caroline Hirons
If someone takes it that way, I see it as they're threatened.
[49:02]
Alexis
This is about love and respect to the person that's on the other end who's standing in front of a wall in a store and doesn't know what to do.
[49:09]
Christina
Long story short, we met up with some cosmetic chemists that are on platform. I think we've met like a lot of them. And we want to meet Michelle Wong in Australia, because she's in Australia. Right. And we even messaged her. Yeah. And she's just like, yeah, I'd love to meet you. So we're friends with them now. But in the beginning it was a little weird.
[49:24]
Alexis
You know, there was a learning curve of excitement.
[49:26]
Christina
But also like this was during that six month timeline where we didn't, we were just posting and we were unemployed and we didn't know what was gonna happen and we were just fresh bushy eyed. Like, what's happening here? Yeah, like with none of this context.
[49:38]
Alexis
And this goes for consumers too who are, who essentially wanna challenge our even existence. Like, well, in the beginning, well, what do you know? Your makeup looks like shit. And it's like, because I'm not using a filter, darling.
[49:51]
Christina
And I'm evaluating product and I'm putting.
[49:53]
Alexis
Product and I'm trying a new eyeliner on today that's supposed to be transfer proof, but guess what? It's not right. And it's hilarious to me because as a product developer, you would walk around your office with seven different products on and a badge of honor constantly if you looked crazy because it meant you were doing your job and you were doing it to make a better product. And that's what nobody understood.
[50:15]
Caroline Hirons
Things that people will say to you on social media never fails to blow my mind.
[50:18]
Alexis
It is, it's interesting.
[50:19]
Christina
But I mean, look, again, we're never going after anyone. We always think about the people in the beauty industry.
[50:25]
Caroline Hirons
I don't think it ever comes across that you are going out, going after people. I don't think that's how it comes across at all. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
[50:32]
Christina
And I think, you know, for us it's like we love the cosmetic chemist on platform. We've been working with a cosmetic chemist that has been in the industry for.
[50:39]
Alexis
17 years personally formulating on the bench leading innovation team. Like he's exactly at the level that I am because we're similar in age and experience. And it's, and it's, it's also with that lens that it's important that we share information that we educate together. Including like the derm should have never shunned the estheticians. They should have hugged them and said politics. Right? Like let's hold hands and attack this beast together.
[51:08]
Caroline Hirons
Because it needs, it's, it's when you're chasing the money, you make mistakes.
[51:12]
Alexis
Yeah. And that's okay. It happens. And we understand that too. And I think respectively in terms of just perception and money. And it's easy to be tempted, obviously. And I think there's a culture of influencer too where there's, there's this expectation of okay, so you're, you know, you're, you need to be showing us all these lavish things because it's part of content. Right. Like, and it's, it's as if influencers have been conditioned to need nice things to show them off.
[51:41]
Christina
Right.
[51:41]
Alexis
Because it's their job. It's a.
[51:42]
Christina
So it's sociologically to us, we consider ourselves educators first and then influencers. Thank you.
[51:49]
Caroline Hirons
In my field who happens to have influence.
[51:51]
Christina
Right, Right. Maybe I think I see some of these experts that are out there. Not anyone in particular I'm shouting out just like I see the opposite.
[51:59]
Alexis
They're trying to be influencers.
[52:00]
Christina
Influencers first and then their expertise.
[52:02]
Alexis
And it's interesting to watch them struggle. It's almost like I would love to one day, just like it's not authentic. Right. I would love to do like an expose on the psychology of like the, the, the trauma of, of create. Like what a creator has to go through in terms of being in your early 20s and getting exposed.
[52:18]
Caroline Hirons
This.
[52:18]
Alexis
Like, I'm in my, I'm well in my 30s, so I can, I'm processing. I'm in therapy, but I'm processing with a very different processor than a 20 year old. I mean, I've been through some stuff.
[52:30]
Caroline Hirons
If I, if I had reached the success level I reached when I was sort of depending like when my book, you know, my book is the best selling British beauty book of all time. And if they had happened when I was in my 20s, well, it wouldn't have happened in my 20s because I wouldn't be considered an expert.
[52:44]
Christina
Well, that's the thing too. Right.
[52:45]
Caroline Hirons
Like now I have the 55 year old brain of who cares? Right now you're arguing into the air. You're just. It's like shouting down a tunnel.
[52:53]
Alexis
Right. You know, and maybe you'll catch a few dollars or pounds on the way down.
[52:58]
Caroline Hirons
Where's your longevity if you're doing this clickbait or you're selling your soul to the devil, you know, because when you, when you see the sort of influencer led marketing which is this week, they love La Mer.
[53:10]
Alexis
Right.
[53:10]
Caroline Hirons
Last week it was Shiseido.
[53:11]
Christina
Right.
[53:12]
Caroline Hirons
Like, do they not see how that looks?
[53:14]
Alexis
Yeah. And you can love La Mere and Shiseido for different reasons.
[53:17]
Caroline Hirons
Sure. But maybe you should give it a bit of space. Yeah.
[53:19]
Alexis
I was gonna say maybe you put like three months in between.
[53:25]
Caroline Hirons
There are a few things in life that just keep on giving. For 3.99amonth, a floppy fuel station sarnie, one small cup of bougie, overpriced coffee. I don't think so. Or for the same price, you could be getting a month's worth of skincare insights and know how from yours truly. A wealth of fresh, expertly written articles on all things skincare and beauty. From our free to download version for essential educational content to our elevated premium experience, the SkinRocks app will revolutionize how you shop and learn about skincare. Whether you're a novice building your first routine, an aficionado wanting deep scientific expertise, or someone looking for the inside scoop on beauty newness, it's all in one pocket. Friendly place on the SkinRocks app with simple to use functions that let you filter for your personal profile, save your favorite content, and explore a vast product library with ease. It's no wonder it's called the Google of skincare. Unlock a world of incredible premium content for just £3.99amonth, $34.99 a year. Or get a special discount via the podcast with code CHPOD to get £10 off your annual subscription. Let's do some Q and A quick fire. Okay. First skincare or beauty product you remember buying. This is the shit they want to hear.
[54:39]
Christina
Chapstick.
[54:40]
Caroline Hirons
Chapstick. Don't even.
[54:44]
Christina
We are not the Chapstick Lesbians.
[54:48]
Caroline Hirons
We've had this whole conversation.
[54:50]
Alexis
I'm glad. I actually wanted to make a piece of content about this. And she's like, you can't talk about that like that. I'm like, okay, you can.
[54:57]
Christina
No, no, the lipstick lesbians. The Chapstick lesbians. Also another term.
[55:02]
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. So for me, it was. I went to Clinique. Clinique broke me out. So then I went right to Lancome and I would get. I did it all. I mean, like Eau de Bien fa. Like Old school Gel cleanser. Their tinted moisturizer, which I can't remember, but it had the great twist cap and the white bottle. I was a Lancome and Daphene Seals. Like, that was my D?
[55:25]
Caroline Hirons
Finiseals.
[55:26]
Alexis
What a D Finisls. And like Mac, like Nico and oh, baby Lip glass from Mac, which was a, you know, a plum and a. Like a brownish golden shimmer speckle. And then I was like, addicted to eyeshadow after these. These were my staples, like those lipsticks, those lips and the Definite Seals and the Lancome. But it was Lancome Mac and just a deep obsession.
[55:48]
Caroline Hirons
How old are you at this point?
[55:49]
Alexis
14, maybe 15.
[55:51]
Caroline Hirons
I think if you're getting young, it's like when people pick up a guitar.
[55:53]
Alexis
Yeah.
[55:54]
Caroline Hirons
You know, they're Like, I've been playing guitar since I was 10. I was like, same, but skin and face. Yeah, like anything.
[55:58]
Alexis
I mean, I worked. I worked at my dad's bagel store every Saturday and Sunday from when I was about 13.
[56:03]
Caroline Hirons
Get your money.
[56:04]
Alexis
Bingo bango. I make 40 bucks on a Sunday, take it right to the Mac counter on the next Friday. And that was the game. How many eyeshadows? How many eyeshadows did I have when.
[56:12]
Christina
I. Oh, my God, it's insane.
[56:16]
Alexis
I was like, yeah, they were color coded.
[56:18]
Caroline Hirons
Color coded.
[56:20]
Alexis
When we first met, Christina raided my room and opened all my drawers. And I get. I don't know what you were looking for, but you found something entirely different.
[56:28]
Christina
It was because everything was so organized. I was like, there has to be a flaw.
[56:32]
Caroline Hirons
So you needed to find Monica's cupboard from friends. You were looking for the cupboard where actually you open it and everything.
[56:37]
Christina
I was like, how come, like these socks are in these beautiful Container Store bins.
[56:40]
Alexis
I had like the diamonds where you.
[56:42]
Christina
Put the socks and the white and the black socks here and the gray socks.
[56:45]
Alexis
I don't have that anymore because she wouldn't be able to maintain it. So we've evolved.
[56:48]
Caroline Hirons
However you've let your standards drop.
[56:50]
Alexis
I've let my standards drop.
[56:52]
Christina
She needs to like, you know, become a little bit more loose.
[56:57]
Caroline Hirons
I can see that if your bathroom is on fire.
[57:00]
Alexis
Yeah.
[57:01]
Caroline Hirons
What are you saving?
[57:02]
Alexis
Oh, my God. Right now we don't need all the.
[57:04]
Caroline Hirons
Soft like each other and a handbag. You know, I want to know product. What are you like? I cannot be without this.
[57:10]
Alexis
I was gonna say the sicklar body wash. Both of us.
[57:13]
Christina
Oh, so good.
[57:14]
Alexis
This base is.
[57:15]
Christina
Is.
[57:15]
Caroline Hirons
Is fascinating. Where from?
[57:17]
Alexis
I just know it as a new newer. It is an influencer style.
[57:22]
Caroline Hirons
Where are we buying?
[57:23]
Alexis
Online. C Y K L, A R S. Really interesting base. Soft surfaces, body lotion and my flu.
[57:33]
Caroline Hirons
Were you able to suss out who made it?
[57:35]
Alexis
The soft services?
[57:36]
Caroline Hirons
I can't wait to try my product after this to see if you can guess. It's not intercost. I'm just going to tell you that now.
[57:43]
Christina
She actually, yeah. Never guesses. She's always thinking about somebody.
[57:48]
Alexis
The soft surfaces body lotion and like Flamingo. I love, like anyone. I love the Flamingo shave products. There's actually like a bunch of new stuff that hasn't launched yet. That's in my shower. That's. It has elevated my shaving experience. I loved it in a way that I didn't know.
[58:05]
Caroline Hirons
I don't have time to go to get a wax and.
[58:07]
Alexis
Yeah, no, no, no, no. Yeah, exactly.
[58:11]
Caroline Hirons
And that.
[58:11]
Alexis
And like they've. They've really improved. I. I learned this through Flamingo and like using the products. But apparently Flamingo spend 90 of their time pruning themselves and like, which it speaks to me honestly.
[58:24]
Caroline Hirons
Love a brand name. I mean, a good brand name to me is just like, it's like mental Interview Katie, Jane Hughes, she said that she likes the brand mantle. I'm like, God, if you know skin, that's such a good name for a brand. Yeah. You know, might need more explaining. But if you know it, you're like, oh, get it. Nice work. See what you did there?
[58:42]
Christina
Yeah.
[58:43]
Caroline Hirons
I always love.
[58:43]
Alexis
You have a moment like that where it clicks.
[58:45]
Caroline Hirons
Love it.
[58:46]
Christina
And that.
[58:46]
Alexis
That was a. Yeah. So like again, like those are the things that are like body. I'm like, those are body care. But like I'm grabbing my Beacon Milk RX and I'm.
[58:53]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, you're grabbing what?
[58:54]
Alexis
The Beekman Milk rx.
[58:56]
Caroline Hirons
Where are we buying Beekman Ulta, but also qvc. Ah. That's why. Okay, so when we're up. When we're. Because we're going to see. It's really in Dennis Gross on Thursday. So we're gonna add that in live. We're gonna go and hit Ulta. Yeah, Yeah.
[59:08]
Christina
I love that.
[59:09]
Caroline Hirons
God. So in that same vein, when you came to the uk, you were very excited in Boots.
[59:13]
Alexis
Yeah.
[59:13]
Caroline Hirons
I want to know why.
[59:15]
Alexis
I like I said the store at Sex Appeal because for me the.
[59:18]
Caroline Hirons
You were in a new store then.
[59:19]
Alexis
Exactly.
[59:20]
Caroline Hirons
Okay, great.
[59:20]
Alexis
I was in the Covent Garden store.
[59:22]
Caroline Hirons
I. Oh, that's their flagship. Okay.
[59:23]
Christina
I love it.
[59:24]
Alexis
How large the gondolas were.
[59:26]
Caroline Hirons
That's the flagship. They are not.
[59:28]
Alexis
They had skin, that merchandise. They had skin merchandise with color, which for me was really satisfying. And they had. They had front and back. They did not have single.
[59:39]
Caroline Hirons
Which. Well, for me.
[59:40]
Alexis
Right.
[59:41]
Caroline Hirons
Fenty. Right. Fendi.
[59:43]
Alexis
So I enjoyed that.
[59:44]
Caroline Hirons
It felt.
[59:45]
Alexis
And even like Dior, the merchandising in Boots, hybridized. The best of department store and the best of Sephora.
[59:51]
Caroline Hirons
Yes.
[59:51]
Alexis
And what they've done in their new.
[59:53]
Caroline Hirons
Shop, you know, where they let themselves down.
[59:55]
Alexis
They're back in the behind aisle.
[59:57]
Caroline Hirons
Self service checkout.
[59:58]
Christina
Okay.
[59:58]
Caroline Hirons
Fuck. You know, it drives me.
[60:01]
Alexis
I would never. We had someone that like took us on a.
[60:04]
Caroline Hirons
Of course you did. That is not the customer experience. Now, to be fair, if you're buying beauty, there will be a lot of tills at beauty.
[60:11]
Alexis
Yeah.
[60:11]
Caroline Hirons
But if you're going in and you're just picking up and shopping. They will say can I direct you to a self service till? And I say I'm sorry, no, I don't work here. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to check myself out.
[60:19]
Alexis
Yeah, we needed to go me.
[60:21]
Caroline Hirons
Why has it become standard that we have allowed retailers to let us to make us do the job and, and then people who work there sometimes get RC as we would say. But I'm like, dude, I'm trying to save your job.
[60:33]
Christina
Yeah.
[60:33]
Caroline Hirons
Put people on account to interact with your customer. It's so lazy. It drives me to distract.
[60:38]
Alexis
Really interesting perspective.
[60:39]
Caroline Hirons
It drives self service checkout.
[60:42]
Alexis
The American perspective is save time. No, have them, have them for those that want them.
[60:49]
Caroline Hirons
But do you know how many people, elderly people go into Marks and Spencer's in Boots? That's the only interaction they get with a human being. And you're going to put them to a machine. Yeah, you're right. Zara in the uk when I went to Zara. Wow. Oh my God. I went, I'll never shop here again. And it's not just me. Like they lost my mum's custom and she lived in Zara. You go in and there's a big like a bucket, you know it's so funny, you see everything in.
[61:12]
Alexis
Because I got really aggressive the other day at Zara because they, they made do my own return.
[61:16]
Caroline Hirons
No, no, no, no, no, no.
[61:17]
Alexis
And I'm like if that was the case I would have shopped online and done my return by myself.
[61:21]
Caroline Hirons
Absolutely not. I don't care how rich you are, you do not make your customer work for you in that way. I'm sorry.
[61:27]
Alexis
I literally had to search for each garment.
[61:30]
Caroline Hirons
Stop it. On the screen. Stop it.
[61:32]
Alexis
Select it.
[61:33]
Caroline Hirons
They are killing and retail.
[61:35]
Alexis
Yeah, well no one want. I'm not shopping in that. I said I'm never shopping in store.
[61:38]
Caroline Hirons
I would never do this again. Done, done. So they're going to lose the retail space and then the problem they're going to have which they're not looking forward.
[61:45]
Alexis
Where are the stores? Everyone's going to be buying out and renting out stores to Live Stream.
[61:50]
Caroline Hirons
Well also if, put it this way, Zara, if you think of Zara on the high street and H M, they have huge real estate.
[61:56]
Alexis
Yeah.
[61:56]
Caroline Hirons
They are noticeable but online everyone's the same.
[61:59]
Alexis
Yeah, they are.
[61:59]
Caroline Hirons
So if you're going to take all.
[62:00]
Alexis
Your business, they're not exact stores online either.
[62:03]
Caroline Hirons
They're terrible online. So you need to make sure your store experience is amazing and it is terrible.
[62:07]
Alexis
Yeah.
[62:08]
Caroline Hirons
You are known for having terrible service and this is no shade on the people that work there. It's not their fault, it's the management down. So you've got a terrible retail experience, a terrible app.
[62:18]
Alexis
When you really break it down when it comes to fashion. Like, where are the fashion advisors? Inside a store to help guide you as to what to buy.
[62:24]
Caroline Hirons
They're teaching you how to do your own refund.
[62:26]
Alexis
Right.
[62:27]
Caroline Hirons
Fuck off. I'm sorry.
[62:28]
Alexis
Right. Absolutely.
[62:29]
Caroline Hirons
No, I will not do it.
[62:30]
Alexis
Back to when I talk about retailers and we, we sat down and when we first started, we made ourselves a capabilities deck. Literally what we're capable of as a lipstick lesbian.
[62:39]
Christina
And that six month in that six.
[62:41]
Caroline Hirons
Months of like such type A women. I love it. I'm like, what am I good at? Oh, I've made a list. I also have a shit list. Yeah. People who I will come back and haunt if I have the energy when I die. Yeah, yeah. I may, I'm. I may forgive. I don't forget.
[62:59]
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[63:00]
Caroline Hirons
That doesn't. It doesn't mean you take up any space in my brain.
[63:02]
Alexis
No.
[63:03]
Caroline Hirons
But if your name is mentioned in a certain room, I will make sure it doesn't get any further than me.
[63:06]
Alexis
I think I have a list like that too.
[63:07]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, you definitely have a list.
[63:08]
Alexis
My notes section.
[63:09]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, you definitely have that list. Because I'm feeling the energy. You have that list.
[63:13]
Alexis
But no, basically like we, we speak about how everyone now is taught to sell, including influencers.
[63:19]
Christina
True y.
[63:20]
Alexis
They're not taught how to teach.
[63:22]
Caroline Hirons
Teach. So when I started, when I started doing, I basically took what. What I do now has come from the shop floor. So on the shop floor I would get people. And this is 20 again, 25 years ago, I would get people in space in K Richmond, which was the first store I opened as manager. I'd been a manager in St. John's Wood and Harvey Nichols. And I would get people queuing up to meet with me for skincare advice. I love this.
[63:42]
Alexis
You were doing live esthetician.
[63:45]
Caroline Hirons
I was qualified. Then I was like, I love this and thank God I had the brains to say more people will listen to me if I've got qualification.
[63:52]
Alexis
Yes.
[63:52]
Caroline Hirons
So I went and of course I'm type A. So I don't just go and get like an NBQ Level 2, which is the first one you do. My daughter's done it. There's nothing wrong with it. I went straight to sibtech. Give me the one that has the most hours. I've got two Kids, what could possibly go wrong? I work full time, See, I would love to. Give me more and more and more.
[64:05]
Alexis
To do, to go do a course on being, like, becoming an esthetician.
[64:09]
Caroline Hirons
Like, just give me more to do.
[64:10]
Alexis
Because I want to learn.
[64:11]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. So I did night school. I did it through two pregnancies.
[64:14]
Christina
That's wild.
[64:15]
Caroline Hirons
I mean, it was, what now? I think, no wonder I'm tired now. Like, I've earned the right to be tired. But I was.
[64:20]
Alexis
But that's the foundation of your brand, right?
[64:22]
Caroline Hirons
Exactly.
[64:22]
Alexis
And your business.
[64:23]
Caroline Hirons
So I did that. And then when I went into store as a consultant and I was doing training, so of the background backbone of training is you tell them who you are, you tell them why they should listen to you, you tell them what you're going to tell them, you tell them and then you repeat what you've told them. Yeah. That's training in a nutshell. In the uk, it's like, if you're going to do basic training on the shop floor, you're like, hey, I'm Caroline, I'm qualified in this and this. Today we're going to learn about this. Here's how you do it. Recap. How did we do this? Yeah, that's basically what I did on the blog.
[64:49]
Alexis
Right.
[64:49]
Caroline Hirons
And then when I went to YouTube, I did the same thing. And then.
[64:52]
Alexis
And that's your framework.
[64:53]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, With Instagram, it's. And so I would. And you'd find yourself going, so let me make sure this makes sense for you. Dum, dum, dum, dum, dum. And if people would go, oh, I'd go, got it. I do a lot of food analogies. I'm known for food.
[65:06]
Christina
Alexis loves food analogy.
[65:08]
Caroline Hirons
Love a food analogy.
[65:09]
Alexis
Oh, come on.
[65:10]
Caroline Hirons
All the time I'm like, get it.
[65:12]
Alexis
You know, I say about a certain.
[65:14]
Caroline Hirons
When you're buying a sandwich, when you're buying a sandwich, the bread. The bread is good, but it's the filling that makes it. Spend all your money on your treatments.
[65:21]
Alexis
Yeah.
[65:21]
Caroline Hirons
Good cleanser, good moisturizer, great to have. If you've. If you've got $50, do 10, cleanse 10, moisturize 30 treatment.
[65:28]
Alexis
Yeah.
[65:29]
Caroline Hirons
And then they go, oh, I'm like, the filling is more important than the bread.
[65:32]
Alexis
Unless you're a bread lover because you want to be in the shower, bathed in luxury and you want.
[65:36]
Caroline Hirons
Go for it.
[65:37]
Alexis
Sorial.
[65:37]
Caroline Hirons
You know, go for it.
[65:38]
Alexis
And I'm also that person that would buy, like the bespoke bread that's like the sourdough fresh.
[65:43]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. You know, bougie, obviously.
[65:47]
Alexis
I have 10 body washes in my shower right now.
[65:50]
Caroline Hirons
That doesn't. I have about six.
[65:51]
Alexis
Yeah, you need the.
[65:53]
Caroline Hirons
It depends on my mood. I have the cheapest original source mint tea tree. Because sometimes you just want to make sure you're clean and it sets your fanny on fire, so why not?
[66:01]
Alexis
Yeah, you know, I used to have the. All we used to call it. It was called intimus de qui. I would get it from, like, the salon, and they would, like all these Spanish women would get it from, like, a certain town that. And they would sell it in the salon. But I haven't had that in a really long time. You just reminded me. I like to set your fanny on fire. I like the feeling of the zing.
[66:18]
Caroline Hirons
Just so you know, in the uk, fanny means vagina and fire.
[66:22]
Alexis
I know.
[66:22]
Caroline Hirons
Okay, good.
[66:22]
Alexis
I'm fully aware. I'm telling you is minty fresh.
[66:25]
Caroline Hirons
Minty fresh. Sometimes you need to wake up. I like fresh lemon Sugar. Lemon fresh is my favorite. I've loved that since they came to space in K in 1999. Brand fresh. The minute I opened sugar lemon, I'm.
[66:36]
Alexis
Like, there's a boutique on 14th Street.
[66:38]
Caroline Hirons
Well, like in here and started. I can't. I've got enough to carry home. But yes, I am the same. I liked it depends on my mood.
[66:44]
Alexis
It is. And that's also just what people don't realize about body care. You're touching yourself, and there's a sense. There's a sensation, and you're. You're literally like. We have receptors on our skin to feel. You should be feeling something. You should actually use the time to connect with yourself. And that's part of. I know we talked a little bit about the course. Part of more of where we want to take our content is more waking people up in the aspect of feeling and connecting.
[67:11]
Caroline Hirons
You're gonna say waking people up in the ass. I was like, well, we've taken another turn. No.
[67:17]
Alexis
Yeah.
[67:18]
Caroline Hirons
It's.
[67:18]
Alexis
It's really in the aspect of feeling, emotion, connecting to themselves with the beauty products.
[67:23]
Caroline Hirons
And I think they already do it, but it's subconscious.
[67:25]
Alexis
It is subconscious.
[67:26]
Christina
People don't realize that they have such a deep connection to beauty.
[67:28]
Caroline Hirons
You know, it's the hardest thing to get people off, which we haven't even discussed is what's your favorite mascara? What's your favorite mascara?
[67:35]
Christina
I like the rare beauty mascara.
[67:36]
Alexis
Yeah, her lashes are very, like, they. She has space in between her lashes, and it helps. Sometimes the mascara for Christina will clump the spaces and will connect the lash too much. Like a tubing on Christina will make her look like she has spider eyes.
[67:51]
Caroline Hirons
Like, I hate tubing. I don't know anyone that likes tubing. Yeah, I hate tubing. I know people who love it. Go with God. But it's not for me. So what's your for?
[67:59]
Alexis
Really Specific. Recently, I've been using the new Charlotte Tilbury. Exaggerize.
[68:04]
Caroline Hirons
I didn't like that.
[68:05]
Alexis
It's very fanned out effect.
[68:07]
Caroline Hirons
I didn't do it for me. I prefer Legendary Lashes.
[68:10]
Alexis
Her original.
[68:11]
Caroline Hirons
I like volume two.
[68:12]
Alexis
Okay.
[68:13]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. Legendary Lashes.
[68:14]
Alexis
You know what I went back to in the last, like two days that I forgot how much I loved it? And I have it on today. Chanel Le volume. The ultimate mascara.
[68:22]
Caroline Hirons
Ding, ding, ding. Jackpot.
[68:23]
Alexis
Best mascara.
[68:24]
Caroline Hirons
Hashtag, not an ad Brush. The best brush. Easy. Boom, boom, boom, boom. It just doesn't boom, boom. Done. How I. I'm in love with you both. Okay, now we're gonna do really quick fire. You ready? Go.
[68:35]
Alexis
Yes.
[68:36]
Caroline Hirons
Okay, ready?
[68:38]
Alexis
Yes.
[68:39]
Caroline Hirons
Ulta or cvs? Ulta. Oh, Ulta. Sephora.
[68:44]
Alexis
Oh, this is like asking between children. Mood driven.
[68:47]
Christina
It is.
[68:47]
Caroline Hirons
Okay, great. Where are you going? Sephora. Where are you going? To see Walter.
[68:51]
Alexis
Ulta is for me when I want to just. I want it all. I want drugstore. I want masks. I don't want.
[68:56]
Caroline Hirons
I want big hair. Big hair, I think.
[68:59]
Alexis
And Ulta is like inviting if I'm feeling down or sad. Ulta's sweeter.
[69:04]
Caroline Hirons
It's cheerier.
[69:05]
Alexis
Cheerier.
[69:06]
Christina
Sephora.
[69:06]
Caroline Hirons
To me, Ulta's like Kansas.
[69:08]
Alexis
Correct.
[69:10]
Caroline Hirons
It is.
[69:10]
Alexis
It's Middle America.
[69:12]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[69:12]
Alexis
So for me, it's a vibe when I want to like. I want luxury. I want my Sarah Creel. I want things that, like, I want to discover my soft services body care. I want more elevated, premium lux.
[69:22]
Caroline Hirons
Sure.
[69:23]
Alexis
Let's go right to Sephora.
[69:24]
Christina
Let's.
[69:24]
Caroline Hirons
Let's get in Sephora or a department store. All right, how about this? Sephora or Bergdorf?
[69:28]
Christina
Bergdorf.
[69:29]
Alexis
I mean, I would do Burgdorf.
[69:31]
Caroline Hirons
I want the service.
[69:32]
Alexis
There's someone that works at Bergdorf that I never want to see again, but she's on the list.
[69:37]
Caroline Hirons
Give it to me. Give it to me. I'll have it taken care of. I would. Okay. But I would have done a Barney's.
[69:43]
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[69:44]
Caroline Hirons
Henry Bendell. I was alive to walk through a Henry Bendel's brick clothes. That's one of my most favorite moments in beauty. I was walking through Henry Bendells like this, and this guy jumps out of benefit and says, and I quote, I'm going to show you how to take that redness down.
[69:58]
Alexis
Yeah.
[70:00]
Caroline Hirons
Excuse you, sir. I don't. I'm sorry, am I red? You know, you're like, oh, they were.
[70:05]
Alexis
They were very dare you.
[70:06]
Caroline Hirons
And I just walked off.
[70:07]
Alexis
I mean it's it again status. It was an experience service.
[70:11]
Caroline Hirons
But Henry Bendel and Barney's never felt snobby.
[70:14]
Alexis
No, Bergdorf's cool.
[70:15]
Caroline Hirons
Snobby. It was cool. But it's still service. They're going to be up your butt and I want. If I'm going to go and spend money on you, I want you up my butt and on vacation. Yeah. Take residence, my friend. Yeah. Because you're not going to get that in Sephora.
[70:27]
Christina
I went to Bergdoffs and they were giving us champagne. The service was extreme.
[70:31]
Alexis
Yeah, we bought, we bought these beautiful like it was an iconic moment. Like the lipstick lesbians bought lip earrings for you.
[70:38]
Caroline Hirons
Lisa Eldridge.
[70:39]
Alexis
No, we got Scarpoli.
[70:41]
Caroline Hirons
What?
[70:41]
Alexis
I'm this Scaparelli. Why am I going to butcher this?
[70:43]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful like lips earrings because Lisa makes them.
[70:46]
Alexis
Thank you. She was reminding me.
[70:48]
Christina
Actually we do have to buy those.
[70:49]
Alexis
We told her.
[70:50]
Christina
Yes.
[70:50]
Caroline Hirons
Okay. We've only done one question, by the way. Bold eye or bold lip? Oh shit. Lip.
[70:56]
Alexis
Yeah, I mean I'm, I'm, I'm both but I'm more so the bald eye.
[71:00]
Caroline Hirons
See, it's the one. You're married. Dewey or Matt?
[71:03]
Alexis
Dewey.
[71:06]
Christina
Mood driven. I don't know. Alexis also does my makeup before we're at like events. So what do you think? What am I more dewy or.
[71:12]
Alexis
Your skin prefers matte. Oh really? But we.
[71:16]
Caroline Hirons
It always look matter today.
[71:17]
Alexis
Yeah. Her sheen will always pop through. So we're always.
[71:20]
Caroline Hirons
And you hate that in a good looking when they're just like, hi, I'm covered in powder but look at my gloves looking.
[71:26]
Alexis
I call her my angel cherub goddess.
[71:28]
Christina
Oh, it's really sweet.
[71:29]
Caroline Hirons
It's just like my husband, not my.
[71:32]
Alexis
Husband rolls over, I tell her every morning, yes, you're glowing in the morning and I'm woundang. I may as well call you moon dang. But no, her skin really like I don't know what it like she does. She puts the beak. She literally just puts. She doesn't even exfoliate this girl. I have to tell her and remind.
[71:52]
Caroline Hirons
Her you shouldn't have been allowed on.
[71:54]
Alexis
We get her dermaplaning but she had. It's her hair, skin, nails, like.
[71:59]
Christina
Yeah, I don't know it's just.
[72:00]
Caroline Hirons
I don't know, it's all effortless.
[72:01]
Alexis
You. Exactly.
[72:04]
Caroline Hirons
Lipstick or lip gloss?
[72:06]
Alexis
Oh, God.
[72:07]
Caroline Hirons
With kjh, I'd say all lip liner. She went lip liner?
[72:09]
Alexis
Yeah. Well, I was just gonna say. Yeah.
[72:11]
Caroline Hirons
So you're a stick lipstick.
[72:13]
Christina
Yeah.
[72:13]
Alexis
Yeah, but what about. You're a bomb girly and like an.
[72:15]
Christina
Oil girly, but you still no lipstick. You know why? It's because when we formulated our lipsticks, I use those lipsticks so much, and I just love it. I love the sensation of a.
[72:24]
Alexis
She likes cushion, Christina. She likes to feel it.
[72:27]
Caroline Hirons
Nice.
[72:28]
Alexis
Hydrogenated polyisobutene. Drench my lips rat. Because every single scent goes around.
[72:32]
Caroline Hirons
Talking like that, you know, AM Routine or PM Routine.
[72:36]
Alexis
Pm My God. The morning is a ritual. I like to put the makeup on. I hate taking it off, but I'll do it because you got to. But yeah.
[72:44]
Caroline Hirons
Again, yin and yang. Yeah.
[72:46]
Alexis
You're a nighttime.
[72:47]
Christina
Like, I love my night.
[72:48]
Alexis
She loves her shower. The teeth brushing.
[72:49]
Caroline Hirons
Do you cleanse with road?
[72:51]
Christina
The road Pineapple.
[72:53]
Alexis
What about your cleansing balm?
[72:54]
Christina
Oh, the cleansing balm. Yeah. All these different cleansing bombs. Right now, I'm not loyal to one. I'm using a whole bunch. I mean, using the Garnier, I'm using the Clinique. I'm using the Elemis. Elemis. Yeah, that one.
[73:06]
Alexis
Yeah.
[73:06]
Caroline Hirons
You've.
[73:07]
Alexis
Because I have, like, seven.
[73:08]
Caroline Hirons
Makeup brush or makeup sponge.
[73:10]
Christina
Well, I like makeup sponge, but I'm not a.
[73:13]
Alexis
Like, you don't have to defend yourself, babe. No, I love a sponge.
[73:17]
Christina
I do like a good sponge. You know, I like the beauty blender. Like.
[73:20]
Alexis
Yeah.
[73:20]
Caroline Hirons
I just don't know how to use them. My daughter use them. I'm like, I'm a brush girl. Brush.
[73:25]
Christina
Yeah.
[73:25]
Alexis
I have some brands that I've been enjoying more. Like Japanese. I always mispronounce it. I'm like the riffer. Yeah. Reefer. Like that. The Japanese brush brand.
[73:33]
Christina
Are you pronouncing it right? Disclaimer.
[73:34]
Alexis
R, E, F, R. Yeah. I need to learn how to pronounce it.
[73:36]
Caroline Hirons
Where'd you get it?
[73:37]
Alexis
R, E, P, H, R. They have a website. They actually do, like, product developing with their audience, which is cool.
[73:45]
Caroline Hirons
That gets you turned on.
[73:46]
Alexis
You're like porn today.
[73:47]
Caroline Hirons
It does.
[73:48]
Alexis
And they have. The size of the brush is the best part. It's not too long, it's not too short.
[73:53]
Caroline Hirons
That's the best.
[73:54]
Alexis
Well done.
[73:54]
Caroline Hirons
Too long. You need it just the right. City break or country escape?
[73:59]
Christina
Country escape.
[73:59]
Alexis
Country escape.
[74:00]
Caroline Hirons
Shopping online or shopping in store? Online. Zara.
[74:04]
Christina
I mean, for makeup and store.
[74:06]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[74:07]
Christina
Everything else online.
[74:08]
Caroline Hirons
Dogs or cats? Both.
[74:12]
Alexis
I love cats. Cats, Yeah, I love cats.
[74:15]
Christina
Our whole feed is cat videos. Alexis awkwardly messed up.
[74:20]
Alexis
I'm a Taurus. I'm a Taurus. Leo, Gemini.
[74:24]
Christina
I'm a Pisces. What are my other ones?
[74:26]
Alexis
You're a Pisces. Taurus, Gemini. We share Taurus and Gemini. We're both rising Geminis. She's a Taurus moon. I'm a Taurus sun, but I'm a Leo moon.
[74:35]
Caroline Hirons
Rising Gemini. Yeah, yeah. I'm Leo, Gemini. Sag moon.
[74:40]
Alexis
Yeah. So we share two.
[74:41]
Caroline Hirons
My daughter describes it as her exact words, because Ava does. Goes deep into it and describes people to a T without knowing them.
[74:49]
Alexis
I love that.
[74:49]
Caroline Hirons
And everyone in the office who thought it was like, hokery pokery. After she spent four hours doing everyone and was exhausted, like, mum, can I have some food? I'm like, yeah, just keep going. She did me, and she basically said to the team, what it means is that my mother has no internal conflict whatsoever. And everyone in the office just went, oh, that makes. And I went, what do you mean? And she went, see? I was like, well, what do you mean? She was like, you don't ever question your.
[75:13]
Alexis
What you're doing, what you're doing.
[75:15]
Caroline Hirons
I was like, what?
[75:15]
Christina
You do?
[75:16]
Caroline Hirons
And everyone went, yes. I was like, why make the decision? And go. And they're all like, oh, my God.
[75:23]
Christina
They marinate.
[75:25]
Caroline Hirons
I only marinate food. Sweet or savory?
[75:29]
Christina
Savory.
[75:30]
Alexis
She's gonna say sweet. That's an interesting choice for you. I'm surprised. No, I'm definitely a savory. I'm just. I was more taken aback by your answers.
[75:38]
Christina
Sweet after savory.
[75:40]
Alexis
Well, yeah. Christina loves chocolate, so it's always a piece of chocolate. And we have this one vendor that we love, this Italian supplier. Every time we see them, they give us a chocolate. A bag of chocolate from another. Interesting.
[75:52]
Christina
It started because we met them on Valentine's Day and we were eating chocolates around a bonfire, and then now it's like, so now we have this collection really sweet.
[75:59]
Alexis
Of artisanal chocolate. And I'm all around the world. All around the world. And I'm like, every time somebody.
[76:04]
Caroline Hirons
Now we know what we're sending them. Now we know. Okay. Heels or flats?
[76:10]
Christina
Flats.
[76:10]
Alexis
Heels. If I. If I love them.
[76:13]
Caroline Hirons
Shoes or bags? Bags. Bags. All day long.
[76:17]
Alexis
Yeah, I like. Yeah, I.
[76:19]
Caroline Hirons
Size 10ft.
[76:20]
Alexis
I know. Me too.
[76:20]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[76:21]
Alexis
I'm like, bags. I'm getting into shoes. Yeah.
[76:24]
Caroline Hirons
When they fit Me. Great. But they invariably don't really cute. These are men's, though. I mean, I got them, I think, because the men didn't buy them. And they're in like, some discount men are like, I'm not wearing that. I'm like, thank you, sir. Night in or night out?
[76:36]
Alexis
Right now? Night in, baby. Room service and a tub and a bottle of champagne just to give you.
[76:42]
Christina
That's what we did. We actually won an award at a. At a conference called Beauty Connect. And we wanted to go to the. And we had these flowers in the award. And we were so excited. We were gonna get cocktails. Cause we don't really drink that much. We were like, celebratory moments for drinking. And they were like, you can't go up with the flowers. We're like, all right, fine. So we were staying at the One Hotel in WeHo. So we go upstairs to drop off our flowers. Then we decide, you know what, let's.
[77:05]
Alexis
Just run it back. I'm too tired.
[77:06]
Christina
And open champagne. And that's exactly what we did. And it was the best.
[77:10]
Alexis
Welcome to your 30s.
[77:11]
Caroline Hirons
Wait till you're 50. Don't even have the conversation. You're like, I'm going to have tea and I'm going to be good with it. Now the next question doesn't apply unless you went there when you were in the uk Probably. We'll have to do a comparison. It's Nando's or Wagamamas.
[77:24]
Alexis
Oh, Nando's, the chicken shop.
[77:26]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah. And Wagamamas is like Japanese sort of noodles.
[77:29]
Alexis
Yeah, the noodles. We've had Wagamamas. We had it at the airport, but I've had it. But that doesn't count. I've had Nando's, like, because one of my friends studied abroad and lived, and I've been to the uk, like, and I also. My first. If we can call him this boyfriend. Whatever.
[77:45]
Christina
This is a whole other podcast.
[77:48]
Alexis
He was from the uk, so I've been a few times. But I. I promised Christina that we're. We're going back in 2020. Yeah.
[77:54]
Christina
We're hoping to go back in January.
[77:55]
Alexis
We want to, like, actually do a proper visit. We want to, like, and, you know, so much of. Do a community meetup.
[78:00]
Christina
So many beauty queens in our Dublin.
[78:02]
Alexis
We want to, like.
[78:03]
Caroline Hirons
You do it right.
[78:04]
Christina
Are you doing a meetup?
[78:05]
Alexis
They're just like, the most.
[78:07]
Caroline Hirons
The Irish.
[78:07]
Alexis
Oh, my God, the love.
[78:10]
Caroline Hirons
They're insane.
[78:10]
Alexis
I've never seen anything like this.
[78:12]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah.
[78:13]
Alexis
I need it to be explained to.
[78:14]
Caroline Hirons
Me because the very first event I did in Dublin was for Sunday. Riley in Space. Nk. And the line was out the door. And this is 10 years ago. The line was out the door. They bought me so many gifts that I had to get extra luggage home. It was like. And it's always. There's nothing fancy, like tea bags.
[78:27]
Alexis
Yeah.
[78:28]
Caroline Hirons
Crisps, like drinks, biscuits.
[78:30]
Alexis
Oh, my God.
[78:30]
Caroline Hirons
All the very Irish food and drink. Ireland is the most fun you will ever have on your two feet.
[78:35]
Alexis
Yeah, well, we're gonna go. It's. It's being spoken and it's happening. We're coming 20, 25. We're doing a UK little tour. We have to. We said this.
[78:44]
Caroline Hirons
But you have to come.
[78:44]
Alexis
We're working on it.
[78:45]
Caroline Hirons
So we can.
[78:46]
Alexis
And we have to go to Liberty.
[78:47]
Caroline Hirons
And we have to, like, Liberty and see the girls.
[78:49]
Alexis
We have to go to Selfridges. We just. We just have.
[78:51]
Caroline Hirons
You didn't do any of that.
[78:52]
Christina
We left only there for two days.
[78:54]
Alexis
Because we had to go back to LA for the award.
[78:57]
Caroline Hirons
For the award.
[78:58]
Christina
Otherwise we didn't know if we were going to win. We were just like, but we need to be back.
[79:01]
Alexis
Right.
[79:01]
Christina
You know, but it was.
[79:02]
Alexis
Otherwise we would have stayed for, like a proper week, but.
[79:04]
Caroline Hirons
So come back.
[79:05]
Alexis
The original.
[79:05]
Caroline Hirons
We will need.
[79:07]
Alexis
Yeah, we need the list.
[79:08]
Caroline Hirons
We're thinking Nando's. You would be chicken.
[79:10]
Alexis
Yeah, I'm a chicken girl, probably.
[79:12]
Caroline Hirons
Okay, now the final question. The final question, which causes more discussion when we do the POD than anything, and it has absolutely nothing to do with anything. It's. What's your favorite sandwich? Oh, shit.
[79:23]
Alexis
I can answer this in two seconds. There's a shop that's Florence, what we want. Florence based originally, and they opened it here in the village. Antica. Pump something.
[79:32]
Christina
I really don't remember the name.
[79:33]
Alexis
They bake fresh focaccia and they infuse it with olive oil.
[79:36]
Caroline Hirons
Oh, my God.
[79:38]
Alexis
Fresh focaccia infused with olive oil. Arugula, prosciutto. I mean, are we there?
[79:43]
Christina
He's bringing Made in Italy to the usa. This is a very appropriate answer.
[79:47]
Alexis
So, yes, basically, prosciutto, focaccia, arugula, a little bit of balsamic and maybe cheese. It doesn't even need it, but it's there for you as an option, like the mozzarella or whatever it's called. Mozzarella, yeah, that's. I don't eat gluten and I don't eat dairy. 90% of the time when I am craving that, I eat both at the same time and I'LL I mean, you can have.
[80:11]
Caroline Hirons
Yep.
[80:11]
Christina
Yeah.
[80:11]
Caroline Hirons
Just suffer.
[80:12]
Alexis
Just is what it is.
[80:13]
Christina
It's a great sandwich.
[80:14]
Caroline Hirons
If you're in, you're in.
[80:14]
Alexis
Yeah.
[80:15]
Caroline Hirons
What about you, madam?
[80:16]
Christina
I would agree. I think fried chicken sandwich.
[80:19]
Alexis
Oh, yeah.
[80:19]
Caroline Hirons
Like a fried chicken sandwich lunch. Like, fried chicken is the food of the gods.
[80:24]
Christina
It is, yeah. You know, it's just the best. I love chicken too, apparently.
[80:28]
Alexis
Yeah, well, fried chicken sandwich. My God. Yeah.
[80:31]
Caroline Hirons
Well, ladies, should have water. Pleasure.
[80:34]
Christina
Thank you so much.
[80:35]
Alexis
Thank you for us.
[80:36]
Caroline Hirons
What a pleasure. I mean, I could sit here for four hours.
[80:38]
Christina
I know.
[80:39]
Caroline Hirons
So what do we have to look forward to in 25? What are you doing? What are you bringing us? Give me a hint.
[80:43]
Alexis
The course number one. Number two. In the spring. A little bit of disruption, maybe. A lot of disruption.
[80:50]
Caroline Hirons
Good.
[80:50]
Christina
We'll see how it's received.
[80:51]
Alexis
We're testing how it's received. Yeah, we're testing. It's a new. It's a new business model. It's a new concept, and it's. I promise you, it. It encompasses everything we've done digitally, and it essentially brings it to you physically to the best of our ability.
[81:03]
Caroline Hirons
I would love to help you be disruptive if I can help you. Thank you. Thank you.
[81:07]
Christina
We'll let you know.
[81:08]
Caroline Hirons
Because anytime you see people who are going against the grain but actually aren't, you're actually just stepping in front and going, this is how it's done. Stepping in front of the wizard's curtain. Yeah. And be like, this is how it's done. And it doesn't mean it's anything bad, but this is how it's done.
[81:20]
Alexis
Right.
[81:21]
Caroline Hirons
Because you'll still get pushback when I explain the margin on things and what, you know, the. We can talk afterwards about, like, the cost of my product.
[81:27]
Alexis
I saw some of your. Your branding of. I was like, this is ballsy. Good for you, Queen.
[81:32]
Caroline Hirons
Yeah, like.
[81:33]
Alexis
And I liked it.
[81:34]
Caroline Hirons
Our product. If people are one of the big ten. Yeah. Would be. Would it be four times the price? I was just gonna say easy, because I don't put.
[81:41]
Alexis
You got me at the 70 cleansing bomb. You got me on the clown. Like, we gotta know what. What's. What's going on.
[81:46]
Caroline Hirons
Wait until you see. We're gonna film you doing the crunch. Okay. Thank you so much. Much continued success. And thank you for being champions of education. Over. Thank you.
[81:57]
Alexis
Thank you.
[81:57]
Caroline Hirons
The dream.
[81:58]
Christina
That's so sweet. Thank you.
[82:02]
Caroline Hirons
I feel like I should at least be giving you some of my American accent, but I also don't want to put you all off and enrage people. So I will just say thank you so much for listening. Tune in again on Wednesday for another episode of Glad we had this Chat Takes New York, where I'll be sitting down with yet another big name in the Big Apple. Until then. Oh my God, I so glad we had this chat. Are you kidding me? New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.