S2 Ep9: Emily English

Summary

Podcast Summary: Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons – Episode 2.9 featuring Emily English

Release Date: December 2, 2024

Introduction

In the ninth episode of the second season of Glad We Had This Chat, hosted by the renowned skincare expert Caroline Hirons, the spotlight shines on Emily English, a distinguished nutritionist and Sunday Times bestselling author. This episode delves deep into Emily's journey in the nutrition industry, her stance against diet culture, and the intricate connections between nutrition and skin health.

Guest Background: Emily English

Emily English, popularly known as "Em the Nutritionist," is celebrated as Britain's most well-known nutritionist. With over 20 years in the industry and a flourishing online presence, Emily has transformed from sharing simple recipe videos to becoming a trusted authority on nutrition and skin health. Her expertise is not just academic; it is deeply personal, stemming from her own challenges with diet culture and health.

Career Journey and Rise to Prominence

Emily recounts her rapid ascent in the digital landscape, particularly highlighting the exponential growth of her Instagram following. "Once I hit 100k followers, it just flew. People organically shared my recipes because they found them relatable and accessible," Emily shares ([03:59]). Her breakthrough moment came when a Greek salad recipe garnered over 50,000 views when she had merely 2,000 followers, propelling her into the spotlight.

Breaking Free from Diet Culture

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Emily's personal struggles with the modeling industry and the pervasive diet culture. At 17, Emily was scouted for modeling, an experience that led to severe eating disorders. "Movement became punishment. I lost everything because I thought my body was a mass equation," she confesses ([13:58]). This traumatic experience was a catalyst for her pivot towards studying nutrition, aiming to redefine health beyond mere weight loss.

Reforming Nutrition: Accessible and Joyful Eating

Emily emphasizes the importance of making nutrition enjoyable and sustainable. She criticizes the one-size-fits-all approach prevalent in the wellness industry, advocating for personalized nutrition plans that enhance both health and happiness. "Create food that makes people happy and excited to eat, while also supporting their bodies," Emily advises ([08:44]).

Debunking Nutrition Myths

The duo tackles common misconceptions in the nutrition world. They dismiss myths such as the necessity to avoid all dairy for clear skin and the exaggerated dangers of milk alternatives. "Avoiding dairy is not going to miraculously clean up your skin," Caroline asserts ([27:58]). They also address the overblown fears surrounding liquid sugars and clarify the nuanced differences between various types of proteins and supplements.

Practical Nutrition Advice for Skin Health

Emily provides actionable tips on maintaining healthy skin through nutrition. She outlines the importance of:

• Collagen Preservation: Consuming vitamin C-rich foods like red peppers to support collagen production ([43:01]).
• Healthy Fats: Incorporating essential fatty acids from sources like salmon and flaxseed oil to maintain skin barrier integrity ([43:49]).
• Antioxidants: Eating colorful foods rich in carotenoids and anthocyanins to reduce inflammation and protect skin from environmental stressors ([44:00]).
• Hydration: Maintaining consistent hydration throughout the day to enhance skin cell structure and function ([45:15]).

“Your gut microbiome is unique and plays a crucial role in your overall health and skin condition,” Emily emphasizes ([20:55]).

Skincare and Beauty Insights

Transitioning from nutrition, Emily shares her skincare routine, emphasizing simplicity and effectiveness. She highlights her use of products like the Elemis Cleansing Balm and By Terry’s Hyaluronic Global 8 serum, advocating for minimalism in skincare to maintain skin health without overwhelming it with products.

Personal Anecdotes and Relatable Stories

Both Caroline and Emily share personal stories that humanize their professional insights. Caroline discusses her own journey through menopause and its impact on her health and skincare practices. Emily narrates her experience with allergic reactions to oat milk, underscoring the importance of individualized nutrition plans ([26:15]).

Advice for Sustainable Health Practices

Emily advises against extreme dietary restrictions and promotes gradual, manageable changes. “If it’s not sustainable, do not bother. Stick to what you can maintain year after year,” she advises ([52:24]). She underscores the significance of integrating nutritional changes into daily routines to foster long-term health benefits.

Conclusion and Future Engagements

As the episode wraps up, Caroline announces her upcoming tour, promising an exciting blend of skincare insights, live demonstrations, and candid discussions. Emily expresses enthusiasm for future collaborations and listener engagement through upcoming Q&A sessions.

Notable Quotes

• Emily English: “Movement became punishment. I lost everything because I thought my body was a mass equation.” ([13:58])
• Caroline Hirons: “Avoiding dairy is not going to miraculously clean up your skin.” ([27:58])
• Emily English: “If it’s not sustainable, do not bother. Stick to what you can maintain year after year.” ([52:24])
• Emily English: “Your gut microbiome is unique and plays a crucial role in your overall health and skin condition.” ([20:55])
• Emily English: “Create food that makes people happy and excited to eat, while also supporting their bodies.” ([08:44])

Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully intertwines personal narratives with professional expertise, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of how nutrition profoundly affects skin health. Emily English’s candid storytelling and evidence-based advice, coupled with Caroline Hirons’ engaging hosting, make for an enlightening and inspiring conversation. Whether you're a skincare aficionado or someone seeking to improve your health through better eating habits, this episode provides valuable insights and practical tips to embark on a healthier, happier journey.

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For more skincare and nutrition insights, tune in to Glad We Had This Chat with Caroline Hirons every Monday and Wednesday. Don’t forget to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform and send your questions to [e-mail] for upcoming Listener Questions episodes.

Transcript

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[Caroline Hirons]

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[Emily English]

Glad we had this chat with Emily English.

[Caroline Hirons]

Take one. Isn't it so official Clapperboard.

[Emily English]

It's very like we're. Let's go.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. That we didn't steal from Warner Brothers. Okay, so just to be completely clear, Emily English, how are you?

[Emily English]

I'm very well, thank you. How are you? Good.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, you've got the fresh off honeymoon glow.

[Emily English]

Do I?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Fresh off honeymoon glow and bestseller Sunday Times glow.

[Emily English]

I mean, I'm surprised it stuck around for the kind of. Not much going on. No, just. Just a lot.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's happened quickly, right?

[Emily English]

So quickly.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like people. Like when people say, oh, I don't know, I didn't know you had a book. And I'm like, well, I wrote the book years ago. I've been in the industry for 20 years and I started blogging in 2010. But your success has been as in, I'm talking online, you know, profile. Like a year and a half.

[Emily English]

Year and a half. And it just went exponential. There was just one moment that I probably just when I broke the 10,000 follower mark, it started to creep up and up and up and up. And then once I hit 100k, it just flew. Because I feel like with food, it's one of those things that people really organically share. So people will go on my profile, they make something and they'll naturally share it on their stories. And I think it's just that they see it, another person sees it, they share it with that person, they share their friend, they cook it and it's. The rest is history.

[Caroline Hirons]

Where was the moment where you thought, oh, this might be a career? As in you're already doing it, but a different career journey?

[Emily English]

I one summer I did this recipe which was my ultimate Greek salad with garlic bread kind of croutons or like a garlic bread side thing. I think that was the first video that got around 50, 000 views. I think I probably had 2, 000 followers at the time.

[Caroline Hirons]

And I said, this is on Instagram.

[Emily English]

This is on Instagram. Instagram has always been like my main platform.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

Which is surprising because everyone used to say, I'm not growing on Instagram. Instagram is the place that you. Yeah, we don't really see growth.

[Caroline Hirons]

But your videos are perfect for Instagram.

[Emily English]

Yeah, they just gagging for. Yeah, it's like the sweet spot. So it was once I did that, then it carried on gaining trajection and I just kept on pumping the recipes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Out and people, where do they come from? Okay. I literally. I'm obsessed with cookbooks. My brother's here and he'll tell you I have them. I had to move them off the old dresser in the kitchen because it was breaking under the weight and we had bookcases built. So I love cookbooks. I've got them from the 60s and the 70s, my mum's old ones, but I very rarely cook from them. I go, that's a nice idea. And then I'll go, I'll just get that rotisserie chicken from M and S Lolly Vs.

[Emily English]

So where does.

[Caroline Hirons]

Are they just in your head? Do you just have such an understanding of food that you know what's going to go with what?

[Emily English]

If people ask me, what is your natural gift that you were born with? It's writing recipes in my brain so I can taste what a recipe is going to be like in my head before I've ever even made it since.

[Caroline Hirons]

How old do you know what it's.

[Emily English]

That's such a. No one's ever asked me that question before. There we go.

[Caroline Hirons]

Every time we get to those, I'm.

[Emily English]

Like, well, I think it's with everything. Like, I. I'm a sponge when it comes to knowledge and I've always loved learning. Like, I've been fascinated, not necessarily a swap, but, like, obsessed with science and the body and how things worked. And if I had a question in my mind that I didn't know an answer for, I would go and find that answer. And I feel like with food, in the world of nutrition and cooking, I feel like I'm a hybrid between both a chef and a nutritionist. I wouldn't say that I like one or the other.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

I think when it comes to, like, my recipe inspiration, it now comes from a place of like, a pain point or a problem solving or what do I want to eat and I don't have enough time and what can I prep and actually eat on a train that's not going to offend someone. Isn't like an egg pot?

[Caroline Hirons]

Not a lot, No. I know egg pots. They are. You think, oh, I'll do an egg pot. That's a good protein. And then you open it and go, oh, yeah, heavy. So, so good. I mean, you've sold a few copies.

[Emily English]

Just a few, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

How was this? Because you've previously done. You've done sort of PDFs, and you. You know, there's a lot of content online how was it putting it all on a page like this?

[Emily English]

Do you know what's so easy? Like, I.

[Caroline Hirons]

Are you getting on my nerves now? I'm sorry.

[Emily English]

Like, I have the most amazing publishing team who were wonderful. Like, the photography in it is beautiful. My food style is incredible. But I think because I already had such a incredible bank of, of content and I'm very lucky that I can basically recipe test all my recipes through my, my followers.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

So I see which recipes hit with people, I see which recipes resonate and then that's where I know, oh, this is a really good sticking to, to the book. And yeah, I think that's why I've grown so quickly and people love. Because it's relatable, it's accessible. You said you had so many cookbooks that you don't use. Yeah, I always said I want this to be a cookbook that sits on people's shelves and is covered in food. Like, you know, when you open a page, it's like. Because everyone cooks from it every day and people do.

[Caroline Hirons]

The one I have got that is dog eared is Nigella's how to Eat.

[Emily English]

That has always been the most inspirational.

[Caroline Hirons]

And it's autographed.

[Emily English]

I know, I'm dying to meet her. She is. I, I always say Nigella is do a podcast.

[Caroline Hirons]

She'll be your first guest. Done. No, she's a legend.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

When it comes to food. Mi krauave. I mean, come on, that woman knows what she's doing.

[Emily English]

Social genius.

[Caroline Hirons]

She knows exactly what she's doing.

[Emily English]

Love it.

[Caroline Hirons]

She knows that the minute she starts talking to the camera, she's seducing my husband.

[Emily English]

Have you made the chocolate cake from that book?

[Caroline Hirons]

No.

[Emily English]

That was my job as a young girl when I was about 8 or 9 years old and we had a birthday and my mum was like, n, go and get Nigella's book and make the chocolate cake. So iconic. But like, do you know, I feel like with food, it has such an emotional connection to it and it's so. It's such a moment in time and in life and I think of food and I will go straight back to the moment of me eating that. And that's one thing I always feel like nutrition lost it, lost that level of emotional identity because I feel like people, when they dieted or wanted to eat healthy, they threw everything that they, they knew or wanted to do around food in the bin.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. And it was all lettuce.

[Emily English]

It was all lettuce and it was all restriction and diet culture and I wanted to break the mold with that, I wanted to create the food you want to e designed by a nutritionist that makes people happy. They're excited to eat, they look forward to eating, but also their body loves. And it makes them feel good, too.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, every time you open a page in that, you're like, oh, that looks good. There's nothing like, oh, that looks healthy.

[Emily English]

It looks so good.

[Caroline Hirons]

It looks good. Yeah, but I like that. So good. Is that the name? I mean, I should have picked that up.

[Emily English]

So that actually came through all of my videos. I always used to sign off with so good because it was. It was that expression. But it's like when you. When I think of, like, my business strategy and making sure that I stick around for as long as possible, I think it's really important to have those identifiable catchphrases. And so good ended up just becoming mine. Organic. Organically and naturally.

[Caroline Hirons]

Where did being a nutritionist come from?

[Emily English]

So a bit of a buff at school when it came to the sciences, biology and chemistry obsessed. Never.

[Caroline Hirons]

Biology, yes, Chemistry.

[Emily English]

No, no, no. I loved it. I loved it, especially organic chemistry, because that explains so much of biology. I have no idea what. It's unexplained. At the same time, it made it just as confusing.

[Caroline Hirons]

What's the difference between organic chemistry and chemistry?

[Emily English]

Organic chemistry is. Okay, that's a very good question. Organic chemistry is the side of things that I like a little bit more that explains the kind of molecular and chemical structure and how different things react with each other in more of a real life natural setting. So it would explain a little bit about, like, how the body respond or how the body will work. It's very. Right. It's hard to. It's hard to kind of.

[Caroline Hirons]

Whereas chemistry is chemistry.

[Emily English]

Yeah, yeah. Um, but organic chemistry was my favorite because it kind of linked a bit more into the biology side of things. So if you asked me at school, would you want to become a nutritionist? I would laugh and be like, well, it's not a proper job. And what do I do? Just tell people to lose weight? Everything around nutrition was always linked to lose weight, lose 15 pounds in. In five days, like holiday detox diet, get bikini ready. All this stuff, like nutrition wasn't about nourishment.

[Caroline Hirons]

No. You know, you can blame boomers and Gen X for that.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Not to interrupt, but it is my generation, my mom's generation.

[Emily English]

Slim fast.

[Caroline Hirons]

When I did the pod with Grace Dent. Yeah, she said, you know, I said about food and show. Well, I'm a Gen X ray. I'VE basically been on a diet for 35 years. And that's the language. The language is, you know, don't eat that. It's full of calories. Don't. I mean, that's the language I was raised with. All with good intentions. But of course, now we would never. I never ever spoke to Ava like that. She's never heard me mention my weight. Nothing. You know, I've never said to her, don't eat that, babe, you know, ever. And so I think that's a. We take responsibility for that. It's. The boomers passed it to Gen X, and hopefully the Gen Xers are breaking the cycle with their kids.

[Emily English]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think going off on a tangent there, we're now seeing that come to play when it comes to the perimenopause, menopause, health of women and hormonal health of women as a consequence of that.

[Caroline Hirons]

But I have never been as unhealthy as I was when I was perimenopausal.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I weigh less now. I'm fitter now. I'm healthier now than I was 10 years ago. I'm 55.

[Emily English]

Because you're educated now.

[Caroline Hirons]

And bless him, even then. My husband never mentioned my weight. He never went, you're right there, love. My mother did, of course, you know, do you need those Pringles? I was like, I'm going to use the tin around your head if you say that again. But I didn't know what I was doing. I was just eating white food. Now I can see. I wasn't depressed in that way that the word gets overused, but I was definitely just flatlined. And obviously now I know that that was being also being fed, no pun intended, by what I was eating, how I wasn't working out, my hormones were crashing all over the place. So the fact that you're around, because there used to be. For me, nutritionists on Instagram have always been being frank. American, Californian, wealthy white, blonde girls, privilege, you know?

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you, although you can tick some of those boxes, you are qualified. You don't speak wank. I'm sorry. Let's just put it out there.

[Emily English]

No, thank you. I pride myself on that, you know.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you are relatable. The food is doable. It's not extortionately expensive. You don't say, go to Erewhon, they've got a new shake and it's $30. And you're like, shut up. No one can do do that.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know, so thank you for at.

[Emily English]

Least being the Non wanky nutritionist.

[Caroline Hirons]

The non wanky Evan, the non wanky nutritionist. There you go.

[Emily English]

That's gonna go.

[Caroline Hirons]

But yes, back to. Sorry. But it was just important to sort of take the responsibility because I do. I'm very aware that Gen X, my generation obsessed with food. It's always in our ears.

[Emily English]

Yeah, always.

[Caroline Hirons]

But we were raised that way and.

[Emily English]

I think I was exposed to that when I was at school. But basically what happened is I ended up getting scouted to model. So at the age of 17, I went into the fashion industry and I was, I was not thick skinned. I was not cut out for it. I could not take criticism. And the day that my modeling industry turned around to me and said basically, we need you to lose weight, your thighs are shooting too big, that was like a switch went off in my head. And I remember going home, refusing to eat my. With my family around the dinner table, opening up like my computer and googling how to lose weight off your thighs quickly.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you're 17.

[Emily English]

17. And you know what? You know what's really horrible? I still have my Nike app. I had the day that I went on my first Nike act run tracking it. And that's the day that I came home from the agency. And I remember movement became punishment. And about shrinking myself. I used to weigh every single spot spinach leaf on my fitness pal.

[Caroline Hirons]

God.

[Emily English]

Because I was a problem solver. So I instantly my, my body became a mass equation. So my body was like, okay, how to do. So I'm going to eat as little as possible, fear all calories and I'm going to move as much as possible, burn as much. So I ended up depleting myself. I lost everything. And I loved food. I loved food. Our family life revolved around food. My granny was a chef. My first job was in her kitchen. Even when I was at you, like, even I was at school. McDonald's Sweet Chili Chicken wrap every lunch time when we were in sixth form because we're allowed to leave the school to go and grab our lunch. And it was like the highlight of my day. And I just ate with freedom. And I look back now and I get so angry because I was just a young healthy girl and it's like, of course I can, I can say I, I should have had thicker skin. But there's also a level of responsibility that I think we need to have.

[Caroline Hirons]

You shouldn't need thicker skin when you're 17. You're being told to lose weight on your thighs.

[Emily English]

And I was tiny. Like I'm, I was tiny but basically, I. I ended up. I had this, like, breakdown moment one day when my mum had made me a cheese roll, brown cheese roll with a slice of tomato. And everyone's plate was laid out and everyone had picked them up, taking them into the garden, and she made me one.

[Caroline Hirons]

So, like.

[Emily English]

And that was her first challenge to me in the, like, the depths of my eating, sort of being like, eat the roll.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

I remember staring at the cheese roll on the kitchen side. And my mom came into the kitchen, she was like, emily, please, please, can you. Can you just come eat the roll? Come and sit with us.

[Caroline Hirons]

Must be heartbreaking for your parents.

[Emily English]

I broke. I couldn't physically eat that cheese roll. And it was that deciding moment while I was just looking at everyone else outside. And I'm one of five, so there's a lot of us. And I was like, why can't I eat the cheese roll? So I ended up, like, stopping my modeling. I pulled myself out of it. I saw the most amazing therapist, Jane, who saved my life, and I ended up kind of it. It came to the point where I had to. I'd skipped two years of uni or I didn't go. So I went back to UCAS and I applied and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go study nutrition because I want answers to why everything that I thought I knew about health and nutrition is making me sick.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

And I went to Kings. I got a fantastic degree with some of the, like, the best nutrition experts in the country and came out of it. Worked a few rogue jobs, I think, as we all do when we first leave university and then found my path to here.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow. I mean, how did your mum react when you gave up modeling just to go back for a second, as you know, because you said, hi, Carol, love to me. I'm obsessed with Ava. Great. But if she was modeling and came home and said, I can't eat that, I need to lose weight, I would lose my shit. I would make her leave. I would have made her leave. As much as you say you have control over a teenage girl, obviously it must have been hard.

[Emily English]

So I'm one of five and my mum had my younger brothers and sisters when I was eight years old. So she had three kids under the age of three when I was eight.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Emily English]

And I was automatically became very hyper dependent. And I remember I used to be the one who supported and I helped and I didn't really. And I still struggle to. To kind of, like openly talk about my emotions or lean on people for help because I'm fine by myself. And I wouldn't say that I necessarily had as close a mama daughter relationship as probably that, that you have. And my mum is the most incredible mum. She was born to be a mum. Like, she's the kindest, most beautiful person ever. I think she felt so lost because I'd always been, oh, I'm fine, I'm fine, she's fine. And then the moment I came sick, she was like, what do you mean? You can't sit around the dinner table? And she's got, she's got a lot on with the whole rest of the family. So weirdly, it was one of those things that she drove me to every single therapy session. She sat outside and waited every single time. She took me to every single doctor's appointment. She, she was there in the way that she tried to figure it out, to be there. And now she looks after like, like my younger sister. Obviously there's like a 10 year age gap between us. She's much more equipped to deal with those psychological issues.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, we, we help our parents as the older children, we help our parents deal with the younger children.

[Emily English]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

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[Emily English]

So one thing that shocked me about my nutrition degree is so many nutritionists do not know how to cook. I'm a cook at heart. Like I love food.

[Caroline Hirons]

First thing you said to me, I was quite scared. You went, do you cook? And I thought, is this what it's like when I say to people, do you wash your face? You literally went, oh, do you cook? And I was like, oh, God, what do I say? I have a lot of cookbooks.

[Emily English]

Do it. That's such a funny comparison because. Because if you asked me about, like, oh, what do you do for your skin? I'm like, is she going to judge what.

[Caroline Hirons]

We're going to have that conversation? So brace yourself, right?

[Emily English]

I'm going to flip it back on you as well, like, what's your favorite thing to cook? But it's one of those things that people always think that as a nutritionist, I'm there to judge. And I'm so sick and tired of the health and wellness industry in the space being so judgmental and hyper opinionated. Like, we are slapped around the face with every single, don't do this, do this. This is toxic. This is bad for you. And sometimes I'm just a bit like, can everyone just calm down? It's your life. You get to choose how you live it. There is not a one size fits all approach when it comes to nutrition and food. And it's unique. Explore it. There's not a set structure that if you just do that, you're going to be healthy and happy forever. Because, I mean, your gut microbiome is more than unique than your fingerprint and your gut microbiome determines so much of how you respond in your health. So how on earth do you take a blanket approach to every single person?

[Caroline Hirons]

It is quite. I mean, annoying is probably a good word. How do you go from graduating to being, what, 1.6 mil on Instagram and, you know, number one bestseller for weeks on end.

[Emily English]

And so that was an interesting one. So when I first graduated, I actually worked a little bit in the hospitality industry. So I worked.

[Caroline Hirons]

I think we should all do that. I think it should be mandatory. 100 mandatory.

[Emily English]

And there is nothing that gives me the ick more. When I go to go out with someone who doesn't understand how the hospitality industry, I'm like, do you have any idea? Do you have any idea?

[Caroline Hirons]

No idea.

[Emily English]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, they don't tip.

[Emily English]

Oh, it's no Nick Purex. So luckily I don't really have many friends who are, who are rude in that sense. But yeah, I did a little stint in the hospitality industry and then I got my first proper job with a DNA testing company, so a nutrition DNA testing company who we Used to think that DNA was going to be, wow. As soon as we like profile everyone and we work out their unique, like snips is what we'd call them, we'd understand why we have the issues that we have in the world. Turns out it's not due to DNA. And I ended up kind of being a little bit unhappy in that job. And I thought, you know, I can do this myself. I can set up my own business. And I backed myself. I believed in what I had to do. And I remember I went to Squarespace, I set up a website, I ran Google Ads to find clients, and I made sure that I was the cheapest nutritionist in the area. And I started doing video calls. It was just the time that Covid happened.

[Caroline Hirons]

Wow.

[Emily English]

So I just left my timing, perfect timing because everyone was then at home wanting to think about their health and thinking, well, I live such a terrible lifestyle. I have time to cook and the space to cook. So I started getting my first little client base in my clinic. And I used to specialize in kind of hyper because I obviously was so small I could do it. Hyper. Personalized meal plans for, for everyone, whether it came to gut health, weight loss, kind of menopause, family style cooking. I used to write the recipes for my clients based on what they wanted to achieve with their goals, but also based on their love and my love of food. And I would get the feedback from the clients being like, oh my God, that lasagna, I can't believe it had like seven different veggies. And it was like the best lasagna we've ever made. And it's like high in protein, high in fiber, perfectly balanced. Like, I knew what they needed from a science point of view. I also knew what they needed from a satiety point of view when it came to like what they wanted to eat. And I didn't really have social media at the time. It wasn't something like. Ever since the modeling industry, I pretty much stayed off social media. I was, I knew it wasn't a good place for me. And so I launched my, my clinic page, started posting recipes and then reels became a thing and I posted my first video recipe. And they were. If you scroll back to like my day one recipes, you would laugh because I used to hang my phone on the edge of like the kitchen cabinet. So we've all been there.

[Caroline Hirons]

We've all been there.

[Emily English]

Yeah. You're like hot studio. Yeah. With everything. And. And they've just grown and people love it. They love my food and I Love feeding people. So it's the best of both.

[Caroline Hirons]

Okay. So we're obviously gonna become best mates and you're gonna cook for me.

[Emily English]

I love this.

[Caroline Hirons]

Before we get onto skincare, let's do some food food thing. So there is so much I know that you're. You hate the nutritional clickbait online.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

All that kind of thing. And there are a few people in that arena that I make me want to throw my phone out the window. So this is just. Is this. Is there any truth behind this or is it right, eating 12 to 16 eggs a day is good for you?

[Emily English]

Oh, my God. I mean, eggs are very nutritionally dense. Do you need to eat 12 eggs a day? No.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I'm not going to give you a bit of a smelly farty bottom, maybe.

[Emily English]

Smelly farty bottom. I mean that people do have that, like, slightly expressed concern over, like, ingesting too much cholesterol. I'm gonna say, lovely, oat milk is bad for you. But in context, and what I always say is that nothing is intrinsically bad for you. In the context of the 365 days and all the decisions you. Decisions you make in those days. It's like we know that living in a city with. With pollution isn't fantastic for us, but what we're doing to counteract that. And if you're drinking six lattes and drinking two liters of oatly every single.

[Caroline Hirons]

Day, then probably I made myself allergic to oat milk.

[Emily English]

Did you? Because you drank it so much.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I obviously the dieting in the head. Before I got my shit together last year, I had tried various things and I switched from dairy to soy, from soy to oat. Right. Because I only drink tea. I drink decaf tea.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And oat. The one that doesn't. Isn't the barista version. Just oat and salt and water.

[Emily English]

The blemish one.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Well, just the one that's plain organic. I always went organic and I thought was doing really well.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I would start. And I started having oat milk in my tea. And it's actually the. I think it's the most mundane. If you want anything that tastes similar to dairy, you know, it's not particularly. It doesn't float to the top and all the. Oh, yeah. And I didn't even think anything of it. And then I developed this cough. And not to bore everyone to death, but it went on forever. And people would. I'd be on Insta and people would be messaging me going, caroline, I'm a gp. Have you had your cough tape checked out and it just became a thing. I'm like, oh, I don't know what it is. I'm allergic to something, but we don't know what it is. And then this is the verbatim, what happened? I went to Ibiza to see Duran Duran with my best mate Heather. They don't do good tea in Spain.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I just. I just didn't have any. I got hot chocolate. I don't drink coffee.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I drank water and hot chocolate and alcohol at the time. We got back, we were there for three days. We got back, I made us a brew and I started coughing and I didn't even notice. And she went, bird, why have you started coughing? And I went, oh, my God, it's the oat milk. And I stopped and the cough went immediately. And then I googled it and it's one of the 14 biggest allergens with a who. I had no idea.

[Emily English]

We can develop, like, intolerances and analogies, and that is something that can, like, just hit at a random point in life. I think the one thing that I want any listener to remember is this whole kind of milk alternatives, seed oil things. It's so. It is what is everyone's talking about in the industry. I don't think that they are as this, like, inflammatory demon. Like, I don't think that the issues that most people are describing are down to the splash of oat milk that they have in their tea. Unless they're like you and you have an allergy and you're coughing and I.

[Caroline Hirons]

Drink a lot of tea.

[Emily English]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Avoid dairy. If you want clear skin. We could both answer this. Total myth. Total myth.

[Emily English]

Long live dairy.

[Caroline Hirons]

It will. It will suit some people who might have a lactase problem. My brother was allergic to milk. I keep pointing to him as if you can all see him, but he's just in the room today. But he had a really bad milk allergy when he was a baby. Ended up in hospital and is. My nephew had a lactose problem. My youngest had a lactose problem. That doesn't mean that they're going to get acne. No, it's a. They're very different things. So obviously, you know, if you want to avoid dairy and you think it helps, knock yourself out. But dairy is not. Avoiding dairy is not going to miraculously clean up your skin.

[Emily English]

Yeah. Especially like, high quality dairy. I think dairy quality matters.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Perimenopause symptoms. Now, this is. This is the one that made me think you are an absolute effing asshole. Not you, my darling. Perimenopause symptoms can be reversed by changing your diet and lifestyle. This is Eddie. This was last week or the week before. And he said women are being sold a lie. We're being given hrt. All you've got to do is change your diet and lifestyle. And I, you know, when you go talk about, first of all, stay in your lane.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're not a menopause expert. Shut up.

[Emily English]

That makes me furious.

[Caroline Hirons]

I was raging. But then I went to the comments and what's good is don't with menopausal women. No, the comments. Yeah, the comments. The comments section was. I was like, oh, the girls have taken care of this. I'm off. I don't even have to get involved. But I did repost it and put total ass wipe. Something along those lines. Absolute. Telling women that it's their fault that they're going through menopause. I can't even.

[Emily English]

No.

[Caroline Hirons]

And that just negates any reason I would ever consider anything you say to be truthful. Yeah, obviously.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Lovely. You should only buy organic produce.

[Emily English]

What a privileged statement to me.

[Caroline Hirons]

So if people could afford to get a couple of bits organically, what should they be?

[Emily English]

So anything that you typically eat with the skin on or you eat a lot of. And the only reason why I say that, so milk. Obviously it will vary the nutritional composition slightly. But I'm also talking about your veggies. So one thing that I'm really passionate about, it's my big ick word.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can't take.

[Emily English]

Really. Okay. Sorry.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can't do it.

[Emily English]

Vegetables.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you so much. It's a real problem for me. I'm sorry, but I should give you some lax. And people are going to be like, why are you interrupting this woman to say don't say veggies.

[Emily English]

I probably shorten it because I say vegetables all the time. I'm sure it's a really boring word.

[Caroline Hirons]

But you know what? It's worse for me than moist.

[Emily English]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Thanks.

[Caroline Hirons]

Apology accepted.

[Emily English]

Vegetables. Organic vegetables. And the only reason being is they can actually have higher antioxidant contents because basically when a plant is stressed, they produce these like incredible health promoting compounds. And an organic plant gets more stress than a plant that's been kind of well sheltered and covered in pesticides and healthy.

[Caroline Hirons]

Isn't it a shame that it's not like that for the humans? If you're more stressed, you get healthier. I'd be Usain Bolt.

[Emily English]

Oh, God. Well, yeah, I'd probably be like the Hulk or Superman.

[Caroline Hirons]

So veg and maybe root veg, like under the ground veg type.

[Emily English]

Yeah, exactly. And then sometimes I think there's something so nice about getting one of those little veg delivery boxes. No, you said veg, not veggie. Sorry, I was like, oh, so the worst. And it's like, covered in mud and all gorgeous.

[Caroline Hirons]

But. So that would be my idea of hell.

[Emily English]

It's. No, but it's exactly.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's my idea of hell. Because I would go, what am I going to do with it? Yeah, no, it's not so much convenience. It's what am I going to do with this? I don't really like a lot of veg and it's not helped by my husband, who thinks that vegetables are the devil. Well, God bless him, I love him.

[Emily English]

You've got my book.

[Caroline Hirons]

He'll eat broccoli and tomato.

[Emily English]

I'll convert him.

[Caroline Hirons]

Thank you so much. I mean, if cabbage is on the plate, he will leave the room because it gives him PTSD from school, which is fair. He'll be like, you can call it kale or you want it still cabbage. Okay. Sugar is the enemy and we should avoid it entirely.

[Emily English]

Ah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Now, I did see a clip of you saying, if you have a kid, you would never let them eat, and then the clickbait disappeared and I lost the clip. So what would you never let them eat?

[Emily English]

So I don't feel like it's a good thing to ingest full sugar drinks as quickly as we drink them.

[Caroline Hirons]

Fat Coke.

[Emily English]

It's. Yeah, Full fat Coke. Just like, you know when people sit there and they will literally glug through. Some people will glove a 1 to 2 liters of full fat Coke.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, God, no. I mean, I like the odd tin of fat Coke, but not like. And it's on a daily.

[Emily English]

It's. It's one of those things I'm just like. That's just a no go for me. Like, give me a little Coca Cola on holiday or a little Diet Coke. Sun lounger, packet of salted crisps. Heaven. There is nothing about that that I'm like, that is what is going to make me ill or make me sick or make me a bad nutritionist. So I think it's. It's just kind of like taking it like full sugar. Taking it relaxed.

[Caroline Hirons]

Liquid sugar.

[Emily English]

Liquid sugar. Especially when ingested on an empty stomach. And if you're a quick drinker.

[Caroline Hirons]

Right. If you're a guzzler.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Good to know you heard it here. If you want to Maintain a healthy diet. You should cut out alcohol entirely.

[Emily English]

I'm just not a cutter. I feel like people's relationships with alcohol is something that's really important to address because. So my auntie is actually a master of wine. So her job and her life is committed to wine, sommelier and. Yeah. And she's so smart. She's incredibly like, the way she talks about it is the way that I talk about food. With passion, with care, with love. Can you taste this? Oh, this goes so well with the food. We. She doesn't open up or like me and my husband, we don't open up a bottle of wine to get drunk. We have a glass of red wine with our Sunday roast, and it's a wonderful thing. And I don't look at the alcohol and think, oh, that's a terrible thing for me. And sometimes you look at the, the blue zones and the countries that live longest in the world, and they love.

[Caroline Hirons]

A bit of red wine.

[Emily English]

They love. They drink in moderation. It's, it's, it's binge drinking culture. It's clubbing culture. It's drinking to get drunk. Yeah. Rather than actually treating drinking because you're.

[Caroline Hirons]

Going on a bender.

[Emily English]

Yeah, exactly. Like, that is so bad for your health. That is bad for everything. And there's nothing that's good about alcohol nutrition wise. Like, I will not sit there and say, I'll have a glass of wine. It's good for you. No, no, no. Polyphenols, whatever. Like, yeah, get your polyphenols in the grape. Yeah. Eat the grape. Yeah. Don't drink the grape.

[Caroline Hirons]

But I, I had to can alcohol for a while now since I've been menopausal, because menopausal women with the lack of estrogen, even if you're on hrt, the liver just doesn't have the capacity to break down the alcohol. And it, it makes me. I can have two drinks and look like I'm absolutely hammered. My cheeks go bright red. I want to go to bed. And then I'm awake, wide awake at 2am and then I feel hungover for days. It's just not worth it.

[Emily English]

But you know, your body and I always say, like, people need to regain confidence in their bodies.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. And their mind and what they know.

[Emily English]

You know exactly what works for you. And I can sit here as this qualified nutritionist all day long and be like, these are the things that you should eat. These are the things that I think you should keep balance and moderation. No one knows what suits you best better than you. So I think as long as you're like, like, following the fundamentals or like the patterns of things that we know are generally good for us and, and supporting our health, you can tweak and change whatever fits you best.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, I would definitely be up for a really good red with some meat on a Sunday.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I was speaking to a liver specialist once and they said that Pinot Noir is the cleanest grape and they use the word clean properly. Cleanest grape. And the Californian Pinot Noir is the best one in the world.

[Emily English]

They are stunning I've ever had one.

[Caroline Hirons]

I always go for California. But, like. Well, it says it should be Pinot Noir. That's a sign I shouldn't drink. Oh, no.

[Emily English]

They're like Californian capsules, salves. They're heavy. That's going to make you flush and stay awake all night. But, yeah, it's just a lot softer.

[Caroline Hirons]

I need. I need it to look like Ribena. A weakened, diluted Ribena. I'm an absolute booze wimp. There's nothing I'm not. When I see people and they're just necking it, I think, my God, I would be in a coma. I can't do it. Okay. A carnivore diet is the healthiest for us.

[Emily English]

Bollocks. Bollocks.

[Caroline Hirons]

No speaking our language, you see?

[Emily English]

Yeah. I.

[Caroline Hirons]

Where do you sit with meat versus. So, for example, with protein.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I use Divinea Taylor's Will Powders Protein.

[Emily English]

Love that brand. I discovered that I take the. The indulgence cats. I take her electrolytes and also the energy ones.

[Caroline Hirons]

She's onto a winner. I mean, some of the stuff she comes out with her text and I go, babe, wind your neck in.

[Emily English]

Yeah, Calm down.

[Caroline Hirons]

She is coming on. She's coming on a bit.

[Emily English]

Woo woo in that sense.

[Caroline Hirons]

She goes, woo woo.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

But the. I cannot fault that brand.

[Emily English]

And you know what? Someone who is incredibly, like, judgmental in that space, I purchase those with my own money. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Not an ad. I've got regular subscription.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

The. Well, the chocolate. I did Huel for ages.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And she. And I was thinking, I'm bloated when I have this Huel.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

She messaged me and she went, I'm coming for them. It's pea powder. It does nothing nutritionally. I'm gonna take over. And I was like, yes, mate, do it, do it. And then I tried hers and I was like, oh, my God, she's so right. They are a world apart.

[Emily English]

Do you know what's crazy is, like, people villainized whey protein powders for so long. So like. Oh, no, no, no. You have to do the plant based ones. The plant based ones often don't taste as good.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's like a puff. It's like a Pringle.

[Emily English]

Yeah. They can really trigger people's like, digestive issues. And whey is so bioavailable. If you're thinking about getting more protein, especially as we get older. It's so good for you. It stimulates your, your muscle. We lose about 3 to 8% of our muscle every decade. Once we hit 30 as a woman.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, yeah. I know. Trust me. My ass is gone.

[Emily English]

Yeah. But it's a battle. No, but it's so important. Not your, your ass, but muscle mass is also important.

[Caroline Hirons]

I mean, I'm happy with it. It did what it needed to do.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know. Okay. Intermittent fasting is good for you and enhances brain function. You don't have to be black or white, by the way. You can do nuance, we can do gray.

[Emily English]

I'm going to say. So I'm gonna say bollocks. But could potentially be turned if I see enough, sufficient evidence and quality evidence come out. I know some, a lot of people. The beauty with intermittent fasting, it's free.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

It's accessible.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Anyone can do it.

[Emily English]

Anyone can do it. And anecdotally, a lot of people said, it's changed my life. So good on you.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

If it, if it helps. What it can help people do is regulate their eating habits and patterns more, which stops them mindlessly snacking and eating too much. Just like empty sugars and ultra processed foods in the day.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

It just creates more awareness of your eating and in turn can improve your, your brain fog and energy.

[Caroline Hirons]

I think it would have been fantastic for me. Perimenopausal, but menopausal and postmenopausal, you cannot do it.

[Emily English]

No.

[Caroline Hirons]

The brain fog. You. I don't know any menopausal woman who can healthily, intermittently fast. That I know.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

We're all just like, I have to eat something.

[Emily English]

I'd recommend anyway.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, eating late at night causes weight gain.

[Emily English]

Bollocks. But eating late at night is not good for you because. So when you eat too late at night, a inappropriate digestion. So it can cause more stress in your digestive system and it will impair your sleep quality. So if you look at your actual kind of sleep patterns, sleep quality is also really important for hunger.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

And not a lot of people realize that if you have a bad night's sleep Your hunger hormone ghrelin is naturally higher the next day. So you wake up, you crave more food, you're constantly hungry. You know you have those days. So you're just like, I just want sugar, sugar, sugar.

[Caroline Hirons]

This is Daniel all over.

[Emily English]

Is it?

[Caroline Hirons]

My son is that he has chronic clinical insomnia. He's 30.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And we've tried everything.

[Emily English]

Yeah. Sleep is so important, especially for someone who's trying to like improve your, your nutrition.

[Caroline Hirons]

So if someone turns up on your doorstep before we move on to beauty and skin briefly. If someone turns up on your doorstep and in the days where you are seeing clients and they say things like, I'm not sleeping well, I'm generally feeling not myself, their diet isn't great. Where do you start? Where do you start with a nutrition plan in terms of. Okay, so this is the core basics. Is it that way or do you work backwards from what their goal is or do you try and help them where they are now?

[Emily English]

Such a difficult question because I think everyone used to be quite unique. But what I always used to do, let's just take someone who struggles to make changes, struggles to bring in new habits. I'll always say build on what you already do. So if you're a sandwicher for lunch, let's try and boost up your sandwich. What can we, what can we add? What can we swap? Can we use this bread instead? Can we stick it in a pitter? Are you getting 30 grams of protein in your sandwich? Can, can you add the smelly egg pot when you go to prep? Just to kind of give you an extra boost. And it's also the fundamentals of sleep. Are you moving? Moving does not mean that you have to start training for half marathons. It can literally be move, walk, wake up every morning. First thing I do is I go on my morning walk, like non negotiable about 45 minutes.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I do with pace or just walk with head.

[Emily English]

With pace.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

And we, and it's also the time.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like you need a Wii.

[Emily English]

Like I need. Yeah, that is, I love that. That is so good. I'm stealing that.

[Caroline Hirons]

You can have it.

[Emily English]

You need to walk with pace. Like you need a wee. And you're, you're, yeah. Amazing. So iconic. And, and I, I do all my work then as well. So I will do all my emails, I write my recipes, I'll plan my day like and it's my time and I'm lucky that I have like a block down the riverfront. I'm not going to walk into anyone or get My phone stolen. And so yeah, don't.

[Caroline Hirons]

You're just like, yeah, yeah.

[Emily English]

And, and do it briskly. You can do half an hour. Half an hour is fine. But I tend to get around 5,000 to 6,000 steps in before 7-30s even hit. Yeah. And. But you know what, doing that, then if I go, if I go to.

[Caroline Hirons]

Work, everyone is looking at you like, Jesus, No, Even your people.

[Emily English]

But it's one of those things.

[Caroline Hirons]

Like, yeah, it's not me, it's just a client.

[Emily English]

But it's one of those things a walking is free.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

It will change your life.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

It will improve your mood, it will improve your mental focus. I always say it's nature's caffeine. That morning walk, it's absolutely brilliant for you. And if you can just integrate that into your day, add a few extra nutritional things, I would say get the sprinkles in, get the pomegranate seeds, get the extra fresh herbs, the sprinkle of nuts or whatever like that kind of stuff, just on top of what you already do will make a huge difference.

[Caroline Hirons]

This is going to be a bit of a life changing episode, I can tell.

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[Caroline Hirons]

Strap yourselves in, people. I'm going on tour for the first time ever and I am so here for it, bringing our wild and wonderful Glad we had this chat podcast to a venue near you, promising you an unforgettable night of unbridled honesty, unfiltered opinions, F bombs and fearlessness. Come join me and a stellar lineup of special guests as we talk all things skincare and beauty, along with frank discussions about life's adventures, challenges, highlights and joys. With exclusive on stage skincare demos, entertaining Q&As and a healthy dose of unscripted hilarity. This is Caroline Hirons me live and apparently on steroids. It's happening. Get your tickets [e-mail] and secure your spot. What should we eat to get good skin?

[Emily English]

So I always say it's a very loaded question but we have to remember the skin is multi layered and it's also really, really hungry. Like we shed around 30 to 40000 skin cells every minute. I think it is. So let's do foundation layer first. Collagen. And I always say it's like a race to preserve collagen when it comes to nutrition. So the older we get, when we hit around mid-20s, 1.5% of our collagen we lose every year. And types of foods that we can use to help support collagen production. So vitamin C, anything that's really high in vitamin C. Weirdly a red pepper.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

Is the highest vitamin C containing food.

[Caroline Hirons]

I love a red pepper.

[Emily English]

Yeah. So if you want to like snack on something to look after your skin.

[Caroline Hirons]

I could do that.

[Emily English]

Red pepper crudites.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

You could chop those off.

[Caroline Hirons]

Hummus. Can I have it with something I don't eat on its own? That's a bit sad.

[Emily English]

Red pepper and hummus. Skin loving collagen supporting like accessible. You can get it from your Tesco Express.

[Caroline Hirons]

Slightly healthier than a McDonald's breakfast.

[Emily English]

Just slightly. Can you add pepper to your McDonald's breakfast?

[Caroline Hirons]

Just drop it and just do that.

[Emily English]

And then the other thing is let's kind of like talk about the bricks and mortar layer. So the skin cells that kind of like stuck together, that really relies on kind of like our healthy fats, ceramides in foods. We know that when we can eat foods that contain our essential fatty acids like our Amigas.

[Caroline Hirons]

Salmon.

[Emily English]

Salmon. Oily fish. But also flaxseed. Flaxseed oil. There's been clinical trials that show supplementation of flaxseed oil can actually boost skin hydration and retention. It can really help just kind of like support the overall skin barrier and reduce inflammation. It's also worth noting that all of the lovely kind of antioxidants and color in our food. So if we're speaking about skin, foods color is everything, particularly our carotenoids. So anything that is red, orange. Love my anthocyanins and purple foods. Sounds all a little bit fancy and a little bit woo woo. But all of these color compounds are incredibly anti inflammatory and they will go and sit within the skin and help again protect the collagen and prevent its breakdown from any sort of environmental stressors. Stress and just kind of like create a lovely healthy anti inflammatory environment. And then the last thing is simply just hydration. When you're hydrated, the way that your, your skin cells and the structure even of like the pore is tighter and enables easier flow of the oils in and out. So dehydrated skin, making sure you're hydrating from within and you can get a lot of water from your foods. So making sure that you're not necessarily just gulping down one liter of water because you're not hydrating appropriately if you just glug big bouts of water in one sitting. Hydrating throughout the day is such a big tip for me. And maybe boosting with electrolytes if you want to. And having those water containing, I'm not going to say veggies, vegetables, veg, water containing veg.

[Caroline Hirons]

You'll be on Instagram now and if I see you doing a reel and you say veggies and you'll go, oh, vegetables. Oh, that was me. You're welcome.

[Emily English]

But yeah, so to round that up, vitamin C containing foods and making sure you're getting enough protein as well. Like we do know that collagen supplementation can actually be clinically proven for skin health benefits. Now like we have the evidence there and then also all of our lovely color antioxidants, particularly the carotenoids and particularly the purple colored foods as well. Just want to add an extra note. The purple colored foods cause your blood vessels in your skin to vasodilate. So it actually stretches the vessels to improve nutrient delivery to the skin.

[Caroline Hirons]

So beetroot blackberries and supplementation briefly, obviously it's a multi billion pound business. Is there anything that people should, that you think people should take to basically to enhance. So you're not, it's not if you know, life changing, they've got real problems but things to enhance good health.

[Emily English]

So collagen, I am a big fan of.

[Caroline Hirons]

I am now. I wasn't originally because there weren't any studies.

[Emily English]

No.

[Caroline Hirons]

The early studies on collagen, it all went to your stomach and then you got rid of it.

[Emily English]

Yeah. You know, yeah. Now I love it and I, I like, I, I don't know if you know. Dr. Thrivy.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yes.

[Emily English]

Yeah. Gorgeous, gorgeous woman. And she now recommends it in her clinic and she's like people's nails grow quicker. Crazy. So collagen for me. I also take a, I do have a probiotic brand. And I think it's really important to understand that any sort of supplement industry is incredibly unregulated. So the quality and efficacy of supplements varies wildly. So one thing you need to be looking out for is delivery mechanisms. So we have basically a duo cap where we have an inner phase and an outer phase and then the inner core has like nearly optimum survivability of the live bacteria inside it and then gut supporting nutrients.

[Caroline Hirons]

So essentially it's in a taxi and it doesn't get out the taxi in the middle of your stomach acid, it gets out the taxi when it can be absorbed.

[Emily English]

Exactly. So looking at supplementation technology, taking a really good gut health supporting supplement, especially for someone who is busy on the go, stressed, not sleeping properly. Gut health is the foundation of everything. If you're also someone who suffers from bloating and digestive discomfort, L glutamine is king. I have harped on about it since day one. I remember even like I had nutritionists who ripped me saying, why are you promoting this product? And it's like all the evidence is, is like out there now and it's like solid L glutamine. We love it. Gut barrier supporting function. Your gut barrier is very similar to your skin barrier and I always love that comparison. The same way that we need to make sure that our skin barrier is nice and strong and resilient to help protect it against pollution, environmental aggressors, we need to do the same for our gut barrier and think about how everything that we do that wears our gut barrier down. Not eating properly, not having enough diversity, not enough fiber, not enough antioxidants, all that, like sugar, that then kind of our, our bad bacteria, love stressed on the go. That is all going to be depleting that gut bar function, which because there's 70 of your immune system that lives around there, then triggers back to the skin. And it's why we see this whole kind of connection between especially autoimmune skin conditions like eczema and psoriasis linked back to gut health because that is the foundation and the foundation communication system for the rest of your body. So gut health supplements. And then finally my golden crown, there's a supplement called I can never pronounce it properly. It's the worst one for me. Astazanthin, Astaxanthin. Did I say it right?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

Round of applause. That is if I, if people want to start looking into a supplement or getting into supplements and thinking, okay, what master antioxidant do I want to take that for me, is it.

[Caroline Hirons]

Isn't that derived from shellfish? Isn't that the one that's like the baby plankton?

[Emily English]

It's a carotenoid.

[Caroline Hirons]

So I'll just double check because there's certain ones I can't take because I've got a shellfish allergy.

[Emily English]

I do.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which is really annoying.

[Emily English]

And. And for me as well, liposomal. So going back to that nutrient delivery form, liposomal is king when it comes to bioavailability. So the amount you absorb from what.

[Caroline Hirons]

You'Re investing in, like the liposomal, vitamin C, sachets and all that sort of stuff. Yeah.

[Emily English]

And if it's. Especially if it's fat soluble, get your liposomals in, like, look out for those. Like I said.

[Caroline Hirons]

I feel like this has just been a big. You haven't presented it as a big bollocking, but I feel like it's the bollocking I deserve.

[Emily English]

Do you not take any supplements?

[Caroline Hirons]

No, I do. Well, I. I do and I take, like we've said before, with Divinia's protein and collagen. Not an ad. I take creatine now.

[Emily English]

Great.

[Caroline Hirons]

I have hrt. That's why I'm not in jail.

[Emily English]

I should. I should mention the creatine as well.

[Caroline Hirons]

That's. Yeah, it's brand new for me.

[Emily English]

Yeah. But I'm just going to say is, like, it's a supplement. I think all females are taking.

[Caroline Hirons]

Good. But everything you're saying. I know. And it feels like I've just got to the point where I worked like a maniac for about 18 months. So our mum died in March and I threw myself into my health. I mean, it was clearly what I was doing to divert from grief.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

You know, some people go and work hard. I was in the gym all week, working out. I lost loads of weight, started building. I'm really into it. And then I realized about six weeks ago, I'm knackered. I am knackered. So where I'm working out, I'm not replenishing here. I'm letting it go on this side. So I'm doing a takeout and a fat coat because I'm so exhausted and I know it's not good for me. Whereas I would have. I could have. I used to have maybe a fat Coke once every two weeks when I was being like super on it. And now I'm like, every other day I might go, shall I have a fat Coke? And it's not that regular and I certainly don't drink in Guzzle. And I might not even finish the can. It's just those initial few sips.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

I gave up caffeine, I gave up alcohol, so I gave up a lot, but I didn't replenish enough. And that's what I've realized. So I've had to change my whole. I haven't worked out in like three, four weeks.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And my body has just gone, thank you, you're knackered. And then I've got sick, had a cold. But everything you're saying, I'm like, God, that's me, that's me. I didn't do that, that's me. So this is good because afterwards I'll be like, where's the list? Everything else I need to order and get back to it. But in a more sustainable fashion. What I was doing was not sustainable.

[Emily English]

If it's not sustainable, do not bother. You are wasting your time, you're wasting your money. It's like saying if I eat one salad every month, that's going to make me healthy. And it's also the same as saying if I have one full fat Coke once a month is going to make me unhealthy. It's not true.

[Caroline Hirons]

No.

[Emily English]

What can you stick to and do? Yeah. For 365 days.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

Year after year with your life and that is what is going to determine your overall health.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. There you go. That's me told. Right. Can we go on to Skincare and beauty briefly?

[Emily English]

Let's do it.

[Caroline Hirons]

What are your earliest memories of skincare?

[Emily English]

So I've always been a beauty junkie. Like, loved it. I was a girl who used to take my makeup bag into school. I would also take my ghds and I top my hair up. But early, early memories. I remember my first skincare set. I remember it so distinctively. It was the pink Bio. Biotherma. Was it Biotherma? Bioderma, yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And the Micellar water.

[Emily English]

No.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, Biotherma is a brand.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah.

[Emily English]

So it was the pink Biotherma Cleanse tone moisturizer. And my mom said, emily, this is what skincare is. And I. If I smelt it now, I would. Honestly, I must have been seven.

[Caroline Hirons]

You can still get it in France, can you? Any pharmacy. Biotherm is a brilliant French pharmacy brand. Really? So it's Bioderma.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which is the Micelle Award.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And then Biotherm is that it was in selfishness for a while, but it didn't really land. But it's a French pharmacy brand. Why would you put it in selfishness?

[Emily English]

That's my. That's my earliest skincare memory. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

And you're how old?

[Emily English]

Sorry, I was seven.

[Caroline Hirons]

Seven.

[Emily English]

Got it for Christmas and it was like, like a. I think I have seven must around there. Like pretend.

[Caroline Hirons]

Mind you, if she's busy having kids, she just wants to keep you busy.

[Emily English]

And it was very neutral. And I remember. And it had. I think the cleanser was like a cotton bud and it was just like. And I remember doing it being like.

[Caroline Hirons]

That was a good choice. Emily's mum. That was a good choice. Biggest beauty or skincare disaster.

[Emily English]

I had a fringe. I dyed it orange. Oh, wow. Did it to be the same color as Hayley from Paramore.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, okay. Fair. And then physical taste.

[Emily English]

Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

I watched it.

[Emily English]

I went to Karang tour.

[Caroline Hirons]

You did not. Yeah, we're going to talk about music too. Oh, gosh. Okay.

[Emily English]

I loved it. Like I. I used to have like. I went to the emo stage. I had blue hair at one point as well.

[Caroline Hirons]

Nice.

[Emily English]

I loved it. So I would. Would I say it was a. No. No, I actually wouldn't. I think the biggest disaster was the over exfoliation stage where we all just decided to destroy our skin barriers.

[Caroline Hirons]

Everybody just. Yeah. Anything in sort of. What's your current skincare routine? What do you do? Just day to day?

[Emily English]

So simple is best for me. I definitely realize that my skin.

[Caroline Hirons]

So as in products, not the range, so. No, I mean like not the simple range.

[Emily English]

No, as in products. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I actually do. I use the simple micellar water.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, the micellar water is fantastic.

[Emily English]

Yeah. The hydro boost one, I really like that. So I always cleanse with Elemis cleansing balm. The pro collagen one. Just, I don't know, singles, like calming down. This is evening. And then I'll do another cleanse with just like a gel based cleanser, often quite neutral. And then my skin's quite sensitive so I don't tend to put my actives. I use like azelaic acid, niacinamide and a trep active from skin to me. But depending on how my skin is feeling. I'll wait. That I'll use By Terry. I love By Terry. They have like a hyaluronic Global 8. I use that serum and then I also use their moisturizer too. It's really, really good because I'm a bit of a skincare whore. I tend to mix up my serums from time to time depending on what I do. Exfoliation wise. I really like the Dermalogica rice exfoliant. If I want something that feels a tiny little bit more scrubby or I'll use the Ren Glow. Yeah. But again, that's like, probably once a week. Not too much. And yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Is there anything that you use obsessively that if your bathroom cabinet was on fire, you'd be like, gutted if you lost it. What about makeup instead? Any makeup product that you would be like, oh, I can't lose that.

[Emily English]

Do you know what I've tried recently that I'm just obsessed with is the Perricone MD foundation serum.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, really?

[Emily English]

Love that.

[Caroline Hirons]

It's been around forever.

[Emily English]

Been around for ages. And I remember always looking at it and I was like, oh, it was too expensive for me back in, like, student days. I was just like, no way. And I remember I got it and now I wear it, like every day. Love it. I also really like Dior's skincare range. Have you tried the new sticks yet? The new foundation sticks? They're glorious. They're absolutely glorious. But yeah, I think burning. Burning down the house skin care thing has to be the by Terry Global 8 hyaluronic acid range.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, the whole range.

[Emily English]

Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Let's just take the whole range. Okay, great. Favorite beauty treatment. What do you get done? Anything.

[Emily English]

I got high food before my wedding with Alice, and I wouldn't trust anyone with it because if they do it wrong, they'll melt the fat off your face. Alisa Harley tree injectables. The best thing I've ever done. Like, I felt so it reminds me, actually, I need like, sitting here, like, if I was snatched.

[Caroline Hirons]

I loved it. Snap staples in your makeup routine.

[Emily English]

Skin is everything. So making sure that my. My skin looks natural but healthy and hydrated. So that Perricone MG serum. I love the Ate at a jewel. Yeah.

[Caroline Hirons]

Her blushes, yeah.

[Emily English]

Are phenomenal.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. She's immense.

[Emily English]

I will stand by those blushes. And I've.

[Caroline Hirons]

I've.

[Emily English]

I've got PR from like, so many different companies. Like, all these different brushes. Those are the blushes I go to again and again and they, they look so primary and I can't remember the other color. Phenomenal. And what else would be like, my fine.

[Caroline Hirons]

What mascara?

[Emily English]

I have eyelash extensions. I know, I know. She's. And they're the best. I'm very low maintenance. It's the one high maintenance thing I do. I mix.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, obviously, obviously.

[Emily English]

We all mix Aqua De Palma rose with Penhaligon's Halfeti. And it goes this like, kind of like oody rosy. Everyone always compliments me on it you haven't. Do I smell nice?

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, we didn't get in enough and I've got a bunged up nose anyway, so that's mine. And what do you do to sort of relax? When are you. Because obviously you. We seem a bit similar in terms of winding down and relaxing isn't really on our go to list. What do you do to sort of go, okay, I need to put the phone down. Stop thinking about recipes in my head like a freak. Hang out with my husband. What am I going to do? Okay, I'm going to chill now. Clean, flat, obviously.

[Emily English]

Bonjour. Candles on. And I know it sounds really weird and you're probably gonna be like, off Emily cook. But for me, yeah, but like purely cooked to relax. And so something's so rewarding about like sitting there and then you end up getting something. Like you sit down with a big bowl. I want a big bowl of something. What's your comfort food or noodles or pasta? I think for me, I would say a roast dinner. But that's not comforting to make. Like a roast dinner cooks for me. Or pie. Long live love a pie lover pie. And it's the season. Going into pie season. I did my first one. There's a great pie in that book.

[Caroline Hirons]

Which one?

[Emily English]

Chicken pie.

[Caroline Hirons]

Oh, immense. We are basically at the end. Do you have any kind of burning question for me?

[Emily English]

Are makeup wipes as bad for your skin as they are reported to be?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yes.

[Emily English]

Really? Yes.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, number one, they. Yes. If. I mean, obviously put it this way. If I had makeup wipes and I was in hospital overnight or on a flight, I would probably just keep my makeup on.

[Emily English]

Really?

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah. Until I could wash it. So they will. Do you use wipes?

[Emily English]

No. So basically I forgot to pack my little mini micellar water. So I was like, I'll just pick up the micellar wipes from a previous trip to Italy. I thought my skin looked quite good.

[Caroline Hirons]

Well, see that, that's different because ironically, a micellar wipe is slightly different in my mind.

[Emily English]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

People might say they're not, but in my mind that's where I would gravitate towards because I would want to take my eyes off. I'd do one quick wipe, but if I don't have water, I'm probably just going to sleep in my makeup.

[Emily English]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

Yeah, they're not great for your skin. It basically, yes, it will remove some, but it won't remove all. And a lot of it is moving it around the face. So if you ever use wipes and then you go over your face with like an acid toner. The cotton pad will still have makeup on it.

[Emily English]

Okay.

[Caroline Hirons]

So yeah, so no more I feel like Fanny's Flights and Festivals. Okay. Motto Fanny's Flights and Festivals. After that, no emergencies. Emergencies.

[Emily English]

Yeah, I was in, but daily no. Okay, cool. Cool.

[Caroline Hirons]

Emily, thank you.

[Emily English]

Thank you for having so much.

[Caroline Hirons]

I can't wait to do Listeners Questions it's going to be fun. You can hear much more from our chat this Wednesday in our Listeners Questions episode, so make sure you tune in. Send your questions for me and my guests to answer to podarolinehirans.com until then, I'm glad we had this chat. New episodes are available every Monday and Wednesday. Follow us subscribe now on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Glad we have this chat is produced by Walter Wall Media.

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