Dueling Memoirs: Victoria Beckham vs. David Beckham (with Cathy Cullen) [REPLAY]

Summary

GLAMOROUS TRASH: A CELEBRITY MEMOIR PODCAST
Episode: Dueling Memoirs: Victoria Beckham vs. David Beckham (w/ Cathy Cullen) [REPLAY]
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Cathy Cullen
Air Date: July 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the dueling memoirs of Victoria Beckham (Learning to Fly, 2001) and David Beckham (My Side, 2003), exploring their parallel accounts of celebrity, romance, family, and scandal. Host Chelsea Devantez and guest Cathy Cullen offer a lively, critical, and often hilarious book club-style breakdown of the Beckhams’ public and private lives, contrasting their perspectives, narrative styles, and the myth-making at the heart of the Beckham brand. The conversation is packed with sharp insights, juicy gossip, and sharp observations on the limitations and pitfalls of early-career celebrity memoirs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Dueling Memoir” Format and the Public Romance

• Chelsea introduces the thrill and messiness of reading conflicting his-and-hers celebrity memoirs, referencing previous coverage of infamous couples (06:00).
• The episode is prompted by renewed Beckham family drama—Brooklyn Beckham’s Instagram “memoir” airing grievances about his wedding (05:00).
• Both memoirs are massive in length: “That’s a thousand pages of this couple” (08:19), much to the dismay and amusement of Chelsea and Cathy.

2. First Impressions: Tone, Quality, and Surprise Standouts

• Cathy, who grew up with Spice Girls fever, comes into the memoirs preferring Victoria, but “leaves them liking [David] more than I like her. And that’s not really the take I was expecting.” (09:13)
• The ghostwriter’s effect is much debated. “You cannot escape your book, even if you try to,” Chelsea notes, blaming bad editorial and ghosting for Victoria’s “tedious, never ending nightmare” of a memoir (10:21).
• Victoria’s memoir is described as a “spite book” full of old grudges and envy: “all Victoria does is tell us...she doesn’t show us anything in this memoir” (36:12).
• David’s, while not thrilling, is occasionally more heartfelt and self-aware, especially about his family.

3. The Limitations and Tedium of Young Celebrity Memoirs

• The Spice Girls legend is revisited, noting just how short their meteoric run actually was: “just these four years where they’re a phenomenon. But every time you go back to milk this very small time in life, there’s not much…” (16:05).
• Cathy points out the audacity of writing lengthy memoirs at age 26 (16:38), especially when large sections are promotional or score-beating (“spite shop” energy).

4. Victoria Beckham’s Memoir: Body Image, Spite, and Mean-Girl Energy

• Trigger warning for body image and diet culture: Victoria fixates on her weight, often in damaging ways (20:18).
• Notable, problematic passage:

  “My crime was being fat. And in those days, I must have been nearly ten stone... I might have had a bit of a double chin, but at least I had boobs.” (20:18, Victoria quoted by Chelsea)

• The memoir is replete with casually cruel remarks about women’s bodies and race, never one to miss an opportunity for a fat joke or to note someone is Black—“note to writers everywhere: if you’re noting someone’s race, note everyone’s race” (25:48).
• Cathy: “If the book is written in that era, again, I say, A, this is why you should never write a book in your 20s...B, somebody should have sorted her out” (25:12).

5. Deep Dives: Female Friendship, Rivalry, and the Spice Girls

• Victoria’s animosity toward Geri Halliwell (“Geri shade”) is a recurring highlight (26:50). Her passages shift from friendship to harsh critique post-Geri’s abrupt exit: “this is like a spite book,” Cathy observes (18:13).
• The power and fragility of female group dynamics is thematized with references to “Real Housewives” and Greek tragedy. “When you’re in a group of women, you’ve never been more powerful…but you begin to define yourself within those confines…" (30:20).
• Victoria’s memoir style is all “tell, don’t show”—unlike the vividness and sense of fun in Spice World or the best pop memoirs.

6. Victoria’s Revisionist History and Narrative Inconsistencies

• The group notes Victoria's documentary-era claims (“I always wanted to be a fashion designer”) are unsubstantiated in her actual memoir—which is obsessed with pop stardom, not fashion (40:08).
• Example of revisionism: in the doc she takes a “private jet” to Versace; in the memoir it’s a “helicopter” (40:49).

7. David Beckham’s Memoir: Famously Ordinary, Cinematic, and Honest(?), Yet Glossy

• David’s voice is alternately blandly self-effacing (“I’m just a nice, normal guy”) yet also candid about loving his wife’s fame (43:00).

  “I love the whole package. Her looks, her personality, her energy, those legs. But I was really turned on, too, by her talent and the recognition…” (43:02, read by Kathy in a David impression)

• David’s style is cinematic, full of filmic metaphors, and surprisingly romantic about Victoria, while she describes him more clinically.
• He is sometimes vulnerably open about his mother and sisters, and the difficulty of his parents’ split (45:55), but glosses over scandals.

8. Patterns of Estrangement, Scandal, and Memoir as Damage Control

• David’s troubled relationship with his father—who wrote an unauthorized biography—draws comparisons to Brooklyn’s public “estrangement” (46:33). This pattern of betrayal/reconciliation looms over the Beckham clan.
• Both Beckhams have a pattern of tightly controlling narratives—selling everything from pregnancy announcements to wedding photos to OK! magazine—and fiercely litigating/curating their private life for the public (58:48).
• The Rebecca Loos affair is handled with extreme vagueness and coded language in both memoirs (75:13-77:48). Strategies of marital survival and public fronting are dissected.

9. The Epic Media Wedding and “Brand Beckham”

• Wedding details are scrutinized: pink thrones, matching outfits, and the infamous “power couple” optics (59:01-60:46).
• Both Beckhams seem made for the spotlight: “they’re made for each other. And, wow, I never want to be anything like them.” (49:59)
• Curiously, the advice they supposedly pass down to Brooklyn is shockingly vacuous:

  “Just love each other, try and not worry about anything, keep working, and just try and have fun.” (79:48, advice to Brooklyn, passed down by Cathy)

10. Brooklyn Beckham: Sins of the Father(s), and the Next Generation

• Both memoirs are full of hope and projection onto Brooklyn, destined—by their telling—for stardom, with immense pressure that likely contributed to his later rebellion/estrangement (68:21).
• Chelsea hypothesizes: “the only way for him to feel like a person with any agency was to marry into a power away from his family.” (70:00)
• The hosts talk through the layers of trauma and frustration of having all your life milestones commodified and sold (82:49), as well as the failed hopes of forging a “normal” family.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “All Victoria does is tell us...she doesn’t show us anything in this memoir. We’re just taking her word for it” — Cathy (36:12)
• “I think after reading her book, I believe it [that Victoria has never read a book]” — Cathy (42:01)
• “David is more successful in that all his millions from soccer has gone into other brands…and he funds Victoria’s fashion House. However, they’re stronger together than as individuals. True.” — Chelsea (78:34)
• “They found a power from being together that they couldn’t find separately and they couldn’t find within their other lives.” — Chelsea (67:23)
• On the wedding thrones: “Once again, gotta say, love the thrones. You can hate me for it, but I love it. It is your special day.” — Chelsea (60:37)
• On Brooklyn’s book: “He was 17 when that started. Like, I would die if anyone saw anything artistic I did when I was 17.” — Chelsea (69:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 06:00 - Opening: Dueling memoirs concept; prior episodes
• 07:35 - Introductions; why these memoirs are work
• 15:29 - Spice Girls fame, burnout, and collective narrative
• 20:18 - Body image, diet culture, and problematic memoir talk
• 26:50 - Geri Halliwell (“Geri shade”) and female group dynamics
• 31:26 - Female friendship, Real Housewives + Greek Tragedy analogies
• 36:12 - Victoria's memoir style: "tell, don't show"
• 40:08 - Victoria's revisionist history (designer origins)
• 43:00 - David’s fame honesty and romanticism
• 46:33 - David’s father writing a memoir; cycle of betrayal
• 49:53 - “Power couple” dynamics; why it works for them
• 55:03 - Wedding planning perspectives; mutual codependence
• 58:48 - Selling the wedding to OK! magazine; controlling the narrative
• 65:19 - The first dance/wedding tradition and family patterns
• 68:21 - Brooklyn: pressure, expectations, and escape
• 75:13 - Rebecca Loos affair and family strategy for survival
• 78:34 - Final “we are stronger together” theme
• 79:48 - The (bad) advice the Beckhams gave Brooklyn on marriage
• 83:37 - Book Dull Test: vulnerability, entertainment, life-elevating?

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Final Thoughts & Book Club Reflection

• Both memoirs are criticized for lack of entertainment and depth; Victoria’s especially receives scathing reviews for pettiness and monotony, while David’s is at least intermittently vulnerable and sweet about family.
• Big theme: These are people consumed by brand and spectacle, seemingly unable to step back or embrace life outside of the spotlight—even as it corrodes family bonds.
• Still, there are fleeting moments of genuine self-reflection and emotional candor (mostly from David), and even an unintended lesson: real vulnerability—and sometimes, restraint—is more compelling than relentless self-mythologizing.

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Book Dull Test Results

1. Was the author vulnerable?

   • David: To a point—about family, less about scandal.
   • Victoria: Not really—opaque, defensive, self-promoting.

2. Entertaining to read?

   • Both: An emphatic "no."
   • Cathy: “Fuck no.” (84:21)

3. Life elevating?

   • Cathy found a surprising parenting insight via David; Chelsea says no, if learning to maintain a personal brand is life-elevating, perhaps, but she’d rather not have that knowledge.

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Conclusion

Chelsea and Cathy wrap their thoughtful and often scathing critique by reiterating that the Beckhams remain iconic mainly in their ability to relentlessly curate their own legend, for better (mutual support) and for worse (control freakery, family strife, insincerity). The episode is a must-listen for fans of celebrity memoirs, pop culture, and anyone fascinated by the machinery—and casualties—of fame.

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Listen & Next Steps

• Follow Cathy at The Cinema podcast (walk-and-talk movie reviews with her husband).
• Check previous Glamorous Trash dueling memoir episodes for more celebrity relationship mythbusting.
• Join the Glamorous Trash Patreon (Chelsea’s community): the best/boldest content sometimes goes “behind the paywall”!

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Happy Valentine's Day to all listeners—and, as Chelsea says, may you find a better blueprint for love than the Beckhams gave to Brooklyn!

Transcript

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[Chelsea Devontez]

this summer say I do. I am marrying a stranger like never before. Am I crazy? It's a whole new Married at First Sight on Peacock. Thank God I woke up with new experts.

[Kathy]

My name is Dr. Lisa.

[Chelsea Devontez]

My name is Paul Brunson. More couples. This could be the start of a very successful marriage and lord surprises. Or maybe not.

[Kathy]

Everything is just not enough. You're a little bit crazy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I don't know what's gonna happen. I want my fairytale ending. Married at First Sight now. Streaming new episodes Thursdays only on Peacock. Hi, it's me, your host, Chelsea Devontez and we are taking a bit of a a little bit of a break and I'll tell you why in a second. But first I want to let you know that today's episode and some upcoming episodes in the next few weeks are all releases from behind the Paywall stuff that was previously only available for the cookies for the subscribers. So if you love today's episode, that is your sign to go sign up on our Patreon or subscribe on Apple Podcasts. I saw a comment the other day of someone saying that all the good stuff was behind the paywall and to that I say yeah, yeah, $5 a month is a big deal in these times and if you are going to support us, we are going to work our ass off for you and always give good content to people who are subscribing and our Patreon members because you quite literally keep this podcast going financially and so we always want to make that worth your time, worth your money. And you know we put tons of amazing stuff on the free feed as well. We always keep that feed going. So we're taking a little break because, you know, we need to refocus the podcast for what you love the most. And also, as you know, I went and shot my film this year. It's going to come out in theaters. I have some other TV and film stuff happening. And I've just been really struggling with how to keep up with the pace of this podcast and the content and the quality and also do my other jobs. And so we're going to refocus things over the next few weeks. We have gotten some incredible feedback on Instagram. There's a post up on the Glamorous Trash podcast, Instagram, where people left incredible comments about what they want the most. And in Patreon, there's a long thread of incredible feedback and we're going to put all those changes in and basically make this a more sustainable podcast for me while also making more of the episodes you love and less of the episodes you do not. And with that said said, sign up on that Patreon, sign up on Apple subscriptions. That's how we are going to grow the podcast, grow the staff and keep making this happen. And if you sign up, you are getting two brand new episodes this month. That's right, two episodes for the subscribers, for the cookies, including a monster memoir episode. We appreciate your support so much. I love y', all, this community and this podcast so much, which is why we are putting so much time into making it as great as we can. So we will see you in the comments and, and thank you for listening. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea devontez. I'm your TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today for Valentine's week, we are doing a dueling memoir episode, which are always my favorite. In the past, we have read Burt Reynolds and Loni Anderson's competing divorce memoirs is truly one of the best companion pieces I've ever read. We read Tatum O' Neal and John McEnroe's memoirs. We covered Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher's memoirs. We read all three of the Judds women's memoirs. They're my favorite family on earth. Actually. They have a Lifetime documentary. It's four part series. I'm just saying this here so that Christina maybe we got to do a documentary book club episode on them. Just saying. And we read Rob Lowe and Melissa Gilbert's memoirs with very different accounts of their relationship. According to Rob, he didn't know her. And according to Melissa, they were two weeks away from getting married. Now all of those episodes are bangers. Some of our best. And now we're back with another very, very public romance. It is Victoria Posh Spice Beckham and David Beckham. Now, they recently made headlines as a family when their eldest son, Brooklyn Beckham, aired out the family drama in a five page Instagram post memoir about his wedding. And the world blew up over it, including us. We covered it on this podcast and you should definitely check out that viral article episode that we did on January 23rd. But we're going to get real deep into it here as well. Now, that drama inspired us to go back and see what did Victoria and David say about their own romance in their memoirs. So today we are unpacking Victoria Beckham's book, Learning to Fly, the Autobiography, published in January 2001, and David Beckham's My Side, published in 2003. These books. Oh my God. So listen, I came here, I wanted to do an episode on their relationship. And then at one point I had a PDF of Victoria's book. And so I typed in the name David in the search bar. There are 7, 115 mentions of David in 424 pages. Guys, that's three Davids on every page. And listen, I asked for a relationship episode. I guess I got one. And here is a trigger warning for talk of body image and diet culture. Now let's dive in. We're very working, working class. Honest. I am being honest. I am being honest.

[Kathy]

How did your dad drive you to

[Chelsea Devontez]

school in so my dad. No one answer my dad.

[Kathy]

What car was it?

[Chelsea Devontez]

All right, it's not a simple answer

[Kathy]

because did you get your dad to drive?

[Chelsea Devontez]

It depends. No, no, no, no, no.

[Kathy]

Okay. In the 80s my dad had a Rolls Royce.

[Chelsea Devontez]

My guest today is a dear favorite. It is Kathy from the Cinema, a fantastic podcast that not only talks about movies with her husband as they walk home after seeing them, but Kathy also covered every single episode of and Just like that, plus many other more things. And you might remember Kathy as one of our guests for the Lily Allen episode on Lily's memoir album West End Girl, which was so fun. Now, Kathy, you actually gave us the idea to do this episode. You said what about David and Posh? Tell me, are you glad you went on this journey or are you dead inside?

[Kathy]

Thanks for having me back. I wish it were under better circumstances. Do you know, it's so funny because I love your Valentine's episode so much. And when the Brooke and Beckham thing happened, the first thing I thought was, wouldn't that be a really cool duelling memoir, which shows how deep I am into this podcast. And I thought it was a great pitch and I was really excited when you said yes. And then I ordered the books on Ethan's, which is an Irish website, and when they arrived and I realized they were both 500 hundred pages long, I realized I'd made a terrible mistake. It was too late. We committed. I cannot believe. Like it's funny, you were saying 400 something pages in the PDF. Yeah. The paperback's 535 pages for Victoria. Yeah, they're heavy. These are heavy books.

[Chelsea Devontez]

They're huge because I also had the physical copy. And when I got them, I also thought to myself, damn you, Kathy. This is going to be a thousand pages of this couple. And David's written, I think, three other memoirs.

[Kathy]

This is like an extension on his last one, I think, but like, I think by the age of 27, he'd written three memoirs. That's right. That's insane.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's absolutely insane.

[Kathy]

It's crazy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Did you come away, like, having known a lot about them and also you lived in London for some time and I feel like their relationship was more a part of your news cycle than mine in America. Like I've always known of them, but. But definitely have had a veneer of a distance. Like, oh my God, that famous British couple. I haven't been in the crevices my whole life with them. You have now, having read their memoirs, what's your big headline on this relationship?

[Kathy]

Oh, God. It's funny. Cause obviously as a teenage. So when they got really big in 97, I would have been 12. The Spice Girls. So I was just inordinately into them. I had a really ill advised Bob that I blame Victoria for. And I did that thing where I cut the back of my hair really short, then I had the front bit long as well. I was never that aware of him. Like to me she was always the star. And I don't pay attention to soccer, obviously, as the Beckhamania took over and particularly as we'll get to it later on, the things around his affairs, I think they cut through more, but I was always more about her. And I think what's been a bit sad for me on reading this book is I came into it liking her more than I liked him. And I kind of leave them liking him a bit more than I like her. And that's not really the take I was expecting. And I'm like, I can't tell if it's because of how the ghostwriters work or to what extent. Like, I'm not a memoir expert. At, like, I'll say. I've only read three memoirs and now I've added two more to the list. So I've read Geena Davis. Yep. Yep. I've read yours. And I've read Lily Allen's. Right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So what a sampling. Oh, my God.

[Kathy]

Three bangers with really distinct voices, brilliant stories, like, really, really good books. So to come into these two was quite a downfall.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, and let's talk about that. Cause I, you know, we talk about it on this podcast all the time. Of how you cannot escape your book, even if you try to. But a good co author or ghostwriter can really make your story. Like, the ghost writer on Spencer Pratt's book should be given a medal of honor.

[Kathy]

That sounds great, that book.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. I mean, she just crushed it. However, you are still in the book. And Victoria's book is so painful. I tried to quit it and I couldn't because we'd booked the episode. But I'm saying I can't do this. And I. Yeah, I really look at the editor and ghost author for that because her image that she crafted as, like, funny and dry. And there's even lines in the book of, like, David's not very talkative, but I could talk to a dead person. And I'm like, okay, that's almost a joke. You could talk to a dead person. Like, someone could have added, like, one adjective or one word, could have made you, like, sarcastic and funny. And instead, every story is a never ending nightmare of details that make it more and more tedious is what it felt like to me.

[Kathy]

It's unbelievable. Like, she'll take the most fascinating story about Geri leaving the Spice Girls and turn it into this utterly mundane back and forth on dates and times and details, and it's so boring. And I found myself. And I don't care about soccer. Never care about soccer. I was more interested, and I mean this in David's, like, 99 football season than I was in, like, Jerry leaving the Spice Girl, which, as I read

[Chelsea Devontez]

these books, crazy for people like us.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, this feels like a good time to take a quick break. You know that time of year when you remember that moving your body in any way causes endorphins and that gives you free happiness. I have been taking a walk every morning. I already walk my dogs all the time, but I've been taking a Walk from for me and I've been playing music and it's been the best. Change up your routine for the spring sunshine. A refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty from Thrive Cosmetics. I just thought we were at a place in life where every makeup product would obviously be vegan and cruelty free and wouldn't test on animals. And sadly, that is not the truth. Which is why I love love love shopping at Thrive Cosmetics. Every product is 100% vegan, cruelty free, made with clean skin loving ingredients. And every time you purchase a product they donate to 600 plus giving partners causes that I know we all care about. So when you need to refresh your makeup, I could not recommend Thrive more. All of that isn't is enough to buy it. It's also incredible makeup. They have a Precision lipstick crayon that is fantastic. It goes on so easy in 18 buildable shades. My favorite product is the Brilliant eyebrow brightener or the Thrive lash extension mascara. I know my products are doing good in the world and also doing good for me. So amplify your spring look with Thrive cosmetics. Go to thrivecosmetics.com glamorous for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A U S E M E T-I C S.com glamorous as a writer, one question I get asked all the time is what is your perfect writing setup? And the truth is my favorite place to write is from my bed. The more relaxed I can be, the better my brain can like explore and feel creative. And that is why I just switched my mattress to Lisa. So Lisa had this quiz I could take from like are you a side sleeper? And they were like this would be your perfect mattress. And I found my perfect mattress and it's helping me sleep. Leesa mattresses are meticulously designed. They're assembled in the USA for exceptional quality and they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns, and importantly, 120 night sleep trial. And of course, as with all of my favorite brands, Leesa isn't just about sleep. They are about impact. They work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. With over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. So go to leesa.com for 25% off select mattresses plus get an extra $50 off with promo code Glamorous. That's L e e s a.com promo code glamorous for 25% off plus an extra $50 off when you use your code. You are also supporting our show Lisa.com promo code. Glamorous. Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. One thing that really hit me, reading these books and what hits me every single time we do something on the Spice Girls because we've read all of the Spice Girls memoirs on this podcast as a very, you know, it was a poor choice of mine. But at one point we did read all five memoirs in one episode, which was just fun.

[Kathy]

I loved that episode. You did.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay. Cause I. That should have been like a season long podcast. There was so much to get to.

[Kathy]

But I went back and listened to it and so funny because your friend who did the Victoria Beckham one said that she had texted you and said, can I stop reading it? And you'd said, no.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Poor Georgia.

[Kathy]

That's right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I made her finish it. And Georgia was like, I guess there's a long story about losing their luggage at the airport I could cover. Like that's a part of the book. Yeah. But one thing that hits me every time is that they really had these four years where they were absolutely on fire. But that's it.

[Kathy]

It's crazy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's it. Like, it's. It's two albums. Yes, they have reunions, but like, it's just these four years where they're a phenomenon. But every time you go back to milk this very small time in life, there's not much like they've really used every droplet of any gossip ever. So all their books are pretty boring unless they have wild lives, which in a very sad way, like Mel B. Scary Spice has like a lot to say in her own life, but there's just not a lot of Spice Girls drama or stories because there's not a lot of time. They didn't have a lot of time together.

[Kathy]

And Jerry left, which I can't believe. Jerry left after two years. Yeah. In my head, Jerry's like this huge figure of mine childhood. And I know they all did the solo stuff, but what I found, like, wild about the. Because she's like 26 maybe writing this book. Victoria Beckham, it's just not a time to write a memoir. And she's doing it to promote her solo album. So therefore, like about a fifth of the book is about her solo album, which is very dull as well. But the audacity to write a memoir when you're that young and to make it this long. Both of them and for both of them. And I think there's some weight to David's in the sense that if you are really into the Premier League or English football or whatever, there's, like, big matches and big seasons that he goes into excruciating detail. I'm not letting him off the hook around who scored what goal and who passed to who. But there's an audience for that. More than an audience of, like, and then Jerry and I got on a plane, and then Jerry said I should watch what I'm eating. And then I got on the plane and I didn't eat. One of the things that struck me about, like, the tedium of the book as well is, in David's case, when the documentary came out, soccer works really well as a montage. And I almost read the book as a soccer montage, and it works. But the really boring details of, like, every single day that the Spice Girls spent recording studios and all that, like, it doesn't work.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, well. And also Victoria's solo album flops. And also Victoria will then go on to kind of rewrite history of, like, never not rewriting history. What is it like? Basically, she'll be like, I was never a singer. I was never a performer. She even kind of says it in this book. I was always into fashion. I was never into music. It's like, well, then why did you go solo?

[Kathy]

And that doesn't track with this. Like, most of this book. Like, I would say, like, it's so interesting for any of your listeners. Right? He won't have read it, I hope not for their sake. Do you remember in Curb youb Enthusiasm when Larry David opened up a spite shop and it was so funny. Did you watch that Season? And whatever shop was open, like a coffee shop, he'd open up a coffee shop next to it to spite the One. And it was this really funny gag that ran for one of the seasons. This is like a spite book because she'll write a whole chapter about, like, someone in her dance school who was, like, better than her and got all the, like, accolades. And then she'd be like, well, fuck you, because now I'm a Spice Girl. That's, like, the punchline to, like, six different chapters, and it's so bitter. And she's constantly talking about how she was overlooked and everyone said she couldn't sing, and everyone said she couldn't dance. And, like, she's. She's constantly telling us what a great singer and what a great dancer she is. I feel like if she'd written it when she was older, she wouldn't have felt the need to do all that. And she could have just Chilled out a bit and, like, let the work speak for itself, which is phenomenal. Like, overall success of the music industry. Yeah. And it's just too close to it. Like, if you're writing names of girls you were in school with and, like, sniping about comments they made about your makeup when you had pimples, it's, like, it's not interesting for an adult to read that, you know?

[Chelsea Devontez]

I agree. It's not interesting for an adult to read it. And I also agree, like, yeah, when she's 26, she's what, 10 years away from those stories of those girls who are rude to her. However, you know. You know, I love a spite moment. You want to write a memoir, you settle every grudge you want to settle.

[Kathy]

Victoria.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But it is very funny to be like, people said I could never sing and I could never dance, but I got into a group anyway, versus But I can sing and dance, you know?

[Kathy]

Yeah. Like, she is a good singer and she is a good dancer. Like, I do think that's true. So I don't. I actually spent the whole book telling me that. Oh, really?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Well, I don't know.

[Kathy]

I don't think she's the best ever. But, like, she can hold a note and, like, yes, she can.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Take it or leave it.

[Kathy]

Take it or leave it. So.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, well, actually, let me read. I'm gonna. This is also our Dringo for her. Dropping her exact weight. She wrote this.

[Kathy]

A lot of weight talk at this book.

[Chelsea Devontez]

A lot of weight talk. And then we're gonna kind of break. We're gonna do some David highlights. We're gonna do some Victoria highlights. But first, I wanna read this because it goes into what we were talking about. She said I was never the best dancer or the best singer or the best at drama. My crime was being fat. And in those days, I must have been nearly 10 stone more of a 12 than a 10. But I wasn't that bothered. Other girls were always going on about calories and things, but I used to anything, Mars bars, McDonald's chips. I'd eat chocolate till it came out of my ears. I might have had a bit of a double chin, but at least I had boobs. And I was perfectly happy with that. And so was my boyfriend. It was nice to be able to say my boyfriend. So what are you doing this weekend, Victoria? Going out with my boyfriend. So there's 10 thoughts in one shitty paragraph there. That gives you. But, yeah, I think she's just like. She is able to sing, able to dance, not gonna stand up not gonna be a star. Which means she's got to stand out on attitude, on humor, on personality, her whole life. Which I find very interesting. Because the claims against them that they seem to push back on is that they are all about branding or they are all about a Persona, an image and fame. And to that I say, like, by your own account, that's true. Because you're not here proving you're not doing art. You again, what is image, personality? You know, that is all just like fame mongering, which influencer stuff, which was always her skill set in the book. She's like, I am a good Persona. And so, yes, of course that's what you're still doing. It's weird that they would fight against that idea and not just be like,

[Kathy]

yeah, yeah, they'll never embrace it. Even when like David got in real trouble a few years ago around one of the World Cups. And again, I'm no expert, please don't quote me. It was in Qatar and there was all this terrible conditions for the workers. And it was a really like bad look. And he was kind of the face of it all. And I thought, why are you doing this? You don't need the money. There's this insatiable desire to make money that I just don't get and I never get. Because I don't know why you would ever get behind something that you know will be controversial to no good end. Yeah. Morally isn't great to make money when you're already a multi millionaire. Like, it just, it doesn't track with any reality that I know. And I don't understand why they do that. And like, even we'll get into all the Brooklyn of it. But like, I rewatched the first episode of Victoria's documentary. Cause I've been in so deep this week with it. And Harper's in the first episode. And I thought, why is Harper in this? And I know they hadn't fallen out with Brooke Lynn yet, but the falling out was happening, I think in the background at the time. It just wasn't.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I think it was. Cause he's not really in the documentary.

[Kathy]

Yeah. And like it was a few years ago now. They actually got married. So I thought, why is Harper, especially a young girl, like, we all know how body conscious and self conscious you are at that age. Why is she here? It's like they've learned nothing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. And Harper, for anyone who doesn't know, is their youngest child the only girl of the family. She's 14, I believe in the documentary. And yeah, your Mom's famous. Famous for her looks in many ways. Like, it is very hard. Yeah, I think we're going to dive into specifics. Well, first I got to circle back and say Dringo to dropping your exact weight. I'm so thrilled that I don't understand Stone, so that that couldn't emotionally hurt me. And I just want to apologize to all of our British biscuits out there.

[Kathy]

You said this exact same thing when we talked about Lill. She had also dropped her weight. And what's wild is the weight she's dropped and the height she is. Like, I would say by any BMI metric, it wouldn't even be overweight. It's a crazy one she's dropped here. Like, aside from anything else.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wait, she's saying Victoria's.

[Kathy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Sorry.

[Kathy]

She's not heavy. Yeah, Victoria's not heavy. Are you serious? She's talking about a tiny weight. That's what's crazy. And, like, there's these mentions throughout that's. I hate. Come on. The whole book about her weight, about other people's weight. Like, at one point, like, she basically will just. She'll either not describe someone, or she'll tell you if they're black, or she'll tell you if they're fat. Like, at one point, she makes a pop about how she does gigs in America. And, you know, in England, the young girls will dress up as the Spice Girls, but in America, the women will as well. And she's like, let me tell you, a fat mom with pigtails isn't a good look. And you're just reading the book going, I don't believe that was the Ghost Rider. And if it was, Victoria should have taken it out. There's lines in there that are so offensive.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Well, God, if that. If it. Maybe it was Todd Gold. Maybe he did it. But I don't believe it was the ghostwriter. But I do believe it's on the ghostwriter to say, we should cut that. We should edit that. We should. But they probably knew it would make.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Or.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I don't know. This is published in a year where they're probably like, yeah, that's true. Like, we do love calling women fat.

[Kathy]

Yeah. It's the height of toxic. That kind of humor. Like, she even mentions when she went on, like, Parkinson's show and he says, hi, are you anorexic?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Like, could you imagine that happening now?

[Chelsea Devontez]

And she also. I believe a couple Spice Girls went on the same show where he made them get on a stage scale.

[Kathy]

Oh, Chris Evans, who she later Mentions dated Jerry, and she implies it was a showmance for Jerry's album. Which, by the way, I really enjoyed all the Jerry shade because it was just hilarious. Yeah, it was so bitter. She hates Jerry, but, yeah, Chris Evans used to weigh women when they went on his show. It was unbelievable.

[Chelsea Devontez]

What a cool guy.

[Kathy]

So this is the era, but, like, if the book is written in that era, again, I say, A, this is why you should never write a book in your 20s. You can't step away maybe, from that. And then B, somebody should have sorted her out and helped her with this book because it's really embarrassing now, if you watch her documentary and go back to this, it's like, it's embarrassing to read this.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I gotta tell you, I know some people enjoyed the documentary snooze fest for old Chelsea over here. Like, I just. Yeah, it was not very gripping. Okay, let's get into other Victoria specifics. Then we'll do some David specifics, then we'll do Brooklyn. So let's just go back and Dringo. Only mentioning the race when someone is black, which is in this book, is egregious.

[Kathy]

It's like eight or ten times, maybe.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, it's always egregious. But, like, this book is insane. And again, just note to writers everywhere, if you're noting someone's race, note everyone's race. Like, otherwise, you're telling us that, like, your world is white and it's crazy when someone else is in. And you know what? Maybe that's true for you, Victoria, but then that is racist as fucking hell.

[Kathy]

So it's crazy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Again, she's also very fat phobic. She's constantly talking about her body, other people's bodies. We also know that, like, a lot of body shame is in the Spice Girls to each other from the press. Men are weighing them.

[Kathy]

And she says Jerry told her to lose weight. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also, I'm sure Jerry was being told to lose weight and they're all just, like, passing the dagger around. So let's talk about how much she hates and shades Jerry, who. I gotta tell you, Jerry's probably my fave. And maybe it's because Jerry is the little go getter of, like, we have to get a contract. Let's walk in there, let's make phone calls, let's blah, blah, blah. Like, I can see me being like, the Tracy flick of the girl group of, like, I know, I'll organize a thing or whatever.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So what was some of your favorite Geri Shade in the book? And why do you think it's her and Jerry that clashed?

[Kathy]

It's interesting because she's really complimentary about Jerry accepting that she blames Gerry for some of her weight issues right up until the moment Jerry leaves, which I do think was a good writing technique. So I was like, she loves Jerry. She was saying, they used to share a bedroom when they were coming up together. They were, like, best friends. And then she's like, they finally sacked another manager, by the way. So Jerry got them out of the feet of, like, two different male managers who they didn't like. Geri orchestrated the kind of exit from them, which is so cool. So they've done all that. They finish out their tour without an agent. The five of them are, like, riding high. And as Victoria tells it, and I have no other accounts to compare to, they all come home, are on holidays, and then there's an evening, they're all about to go and do the National Lottery and they get a call saying, Jerry's left the band. None of them can contact her. None of them hear from her. She refuses to speak to any of them. So they quickly put out a statement saying, geri's sick. We're gonna just go and do the shows without her until she comes down. And then Geri goes off to France very publicly. So they can't then say geri's sick because she's clearly fucked off on a holiday. And then she just lays into Gerry, like, Gerry pretended she didn't want to be in the Spice Girls anymore and that she didn't want to do a solo act. And then she went on TV and she said something. I haven't marked it, but, like, Geri looked really ugly when she went on tv. And then Geri released her single where she did, like, an effigy to Ginger Spice and, like, how dare she? And then she says something interesting, whereby, like, her and David are in South France, of course, in, like, Elton John's, like, Villa. And Jerry phones and says, I'm with George Michael. Like, there's such good name dropping. Do you want to come and meet me? And then Jerry organized, like, paps to come and get a picture. And then Jerry never spoke to her again. And turns out Gerry, according to Victoria, was doing it to get her single published. Like, that's juice. That is the juiciest stuff in this memoir, I thought.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also, it tracks with how smart Jerry is. Like, Jerry's like, yes, I'm going to wear this dress of the flag. I'm going to dance on a table. I'm Going make this phone call to like pop something off. We should also note that there's rumors that Jerry left after a falling out with Mel B. Scary Spice after they had a romance, which I remember deep in my Spice Girls haze of one of the many books I've covered, there's some show where like Mel B's on stage and there were rumors that you and Jerry were

[Kathy]

more than just good friends. Anything you want to share with the group?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Well, no denial,

[Narrator/Advertiser]

either of you.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Anyone want to pitch in?

[Kathy]

Oh, she had great boobs. So you did. Well, not really. Oh, you clearly did. Right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Come on, you books.

[Kathy]

I. Can't you answer for me?

[Chelsea Devontez]

I don't know anything. Oh, whatever. Melanie, did you or didn't you with Jerry Halliwell? Well, what do you consider as doing it or not?

[Kathy]

Did you see what I. Yeah, we all slept in a bed together. But not like that.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

All of us.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Did you sleep with Gerry like that? Yes. Really? She's gonna hate me for this. Cause she's all posh in a country

[Kathy]

house with her husband.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Where is the fan fiction novel? It must exist.

[Kathy]

I know. Imagine they'd come out. It would have been like amazing at the time dream. But I do think Victoria's anger towards Jerry feels rooted in something to me. Like they're at the height of their fame and for Jerry to leave the band must have been very traumatizing for. But I think also I've experienced throughout the entire book Victoria being incredibly spiteful to people. So in her retelling of stories. So I don't know, it also find it fascinating.

[Chelsea Devontez]

What I love so much about female friendship dynamics in storytelling is. And especially I'm just thinking to myself of like, when you're in a group of women, you've never been more powerful. But you also, you begin to define yourself within those confines. So who's talented, who's charismatic, who's whatever. It's just so identity making. Whereas if you're outside of the group, your identity could become a whole different thing. But I'm thrilled to make this comparison. Kathy, are you watching the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City?

[Kathy]

I'm sorry, I haven't.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, I'm sorry.

[Kathy]

I want to hear.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm sorry for you. It's the best show on earth. And what I want to say is that the end of this season they had a Greek tragedy written for them about them when they were in Greece. And the whole thesis of this Greek tragedy is that they are strongest together. And when they are not together, like, do you have any power at all. Do you even exist? It was in this Greek tragedy of like, sisters or whatever.

[Kathy]

Oh my God. And that's the theme of Victoria's book. Remember, she says they're like, when they all stick together, they can't break. And apart, every stick can be broken. She puts in this tedious metaphor, but that is what she was getting at.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes. Not every stick can be broken. Every stick was broken. Like, together, they're the most famous thing ever. And separately, I think you could argue that none of their careers took off in any way that even comes close to matching who they were as a whole.

[Kathy]

It never did. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And so I think that's a really fascinating theme in like sisterhood, female friendships, but also it's misogyny. It's power in numbers. Five women can't be fucked with. But if you're alone now, you have the power of 1/20 of a man and will run you over. Okay, this feels like a good time to take a quick break. When I started this podcast, I did not realize that by doing that, I was also starting a business. When we wanted to make merch, we needed the actual business setup structure to do that. And Shopify is where you go to start your business. So if you've been sitting on a business idea, you can use Shopify as the thing that can remove any excuse for not getting started because it makes starting a business easy peasy. Shopify has templates and all these tools that gets you a stunning site up and running. There's no coding needed and you can really make it your own. Shopify checkout means more customers actually buy and returning ones can do it in a single click. I do all my business on Shopify when I am a customer to other businesses. It's super easy. One click. You can track all your orders and if questions come up as you are running that business, Shopify has a built in assistant sidekick ready to help you build, troubleshoot, keep moving, answer all of the questions. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to small businesses just getting started, to podcasts called Glamorous Trash and at one point ran their first merch ever from Shopify. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Your landlord has a small business. Your ex has a small business. What are you waiting for? Start [e-mail] glamorous go to shopify.com glamorous that's shopify.com glamorous. The best summer pieces are the ones you end up wearing on repeat and all summer long, I have been wearing my black summer dress that I got on Quint's last year, and I will be wearing it next summer and the summer after that. That is why I love Quince. They make elevated essentials using premium materials like European linen, organic cotton, and washable silk without the traditional retail markup. Summer is linen.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

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[Kathy]

It's insane. And there's like. And I know we're here to talk about David and Victoria, but there's this thing where they're. It's like the second year of their fame, and they all get sent to France, this to, like, practice for a live show or something. And the manager splits them up completely. The five of them are held separately. They go on safari in South Africa. They're put in five separate jeeps because she's saying he needs to keep us apart to maintain the power. Yes. And as soon as they all got back together and he put us back out and he was in a hotel in New York, they sacked him. And I thought he knew. He knew.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Five different safari jeeps. My God, sir.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Like, that's insane. Right? And there was a piece towards the end where she kind of went on a bit of a rant when they kind of were together after Jerry. She said, I was always able to be outspoken. I was always able to be in control. But I understood my plan in the Spice Girls and I let Jerry do it because she wanted to. But now I'm the One doing it. And again it came out as like just a strange thing to say. Like she never just told us a story where we saw her coming out and being the leader. She instead just told us over and over again that she could become the leader. And it's that show don't tell thing. It's like all Victoria does is tell us. Like she doesn't show us anything in this memoir. We're just taking her word for it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It's similar with everyone saying she's funny. Everyone always tells us Victoria is funny, but even in her own documentary series you don't see her being funn funny. Or in her own book there's not funny lines written. Okay, another highlight, talk to me about her dating Corey Haim. How and when so funny it comes up.

[Kathy]

She's just broken up with her first love. Love quotes. He was actually sounds awful, right? And he's quite abusive. They're engaged and he's like taking money off her parents and he's like really always nagging her. Right. So they break up and then she's like woohoo, free and single. She's in the Spice Girls at this point. And then she starts dating Corey Haim. She just says that, oh, I dated Corey Haim. And I'm like wait, the Corey Haim? And she talks about like it was very brief and she says we never even had sex or anything. But she makes comments like he was really weird. He was always up all night and then sleep all day and he wasn't jet lagged. And you're like, right. And I know this is before he passed away, but like could she not have just either said oh he did a lot of drugs or just left it out? Because she comes across so like it's a strange thing to write about someone right?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Right. Like hinting at it but not saying it. That said, that is her style. That's even how they're gonna talk about like the affairs with David.

[Kathy]

And then she says he got really jealous that she was watching Take that on the telly. And then she kicked him out of her apartment and that's how they broke up. I was like, of all the boring bits of the book, the two pages on Corey Haim were interesting.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Now what I couldn't understand is how that happened in the timeline and maybe this tracked for you. So please explain it to me. But when she's dating David, Stuart is still in her life, like there's some overlap and it felt like her and

[Kathy]

David, oh, there's two boyfriends, there's two Stewarts. No, I cannot. I'm so sorry now, but I haven't marked his name. So there's the boyfriend she had when she was like 17 to like 22, who she was engaged to. Then she was with Korea Hymn for two days. Then she was with this really nice guy. He was like a local guy who like worked in a flower shop and he was really nice. And then she's with that nice guy, but he's a bit boring when she gets with.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And that's Stuart. That's Stuart. Because her and David, I feel like really like the co authors spoke about how they were gonna handle this overlap of like, she was like, she comes home from a date with David and like Stuart's upstairs in her bed, but David's like, don't worry, she told me about Stuart. And she's like, I told him about Stuart. So they really did that rumor and

[Kathy]

they're really like, we hadn't kissed until she broke up with Stuart. And I think these were the parts of the memoir where they were so clearly written together. And it made me sad for the good old days of the broke up celebrity memoirs where you're getting genuine idiofriend accounts. Cause like nearly verbatim they describe their first three weeks of courting when they're going on these dates, they're like identical again, they're identical.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It was a less interesting dueling memoir account because they were working together. And it's so true to real life as in like 17 million tiny moments led to them getting together. So I loved that part of it. And it was so horrible in that it's like, I don't need to know, like. So I saw him, I didn't think anything of him. Then I saw him again. I thought, oh, that was that guy. Then I was kind of looking some pointed at a guy in a magazine. I was like, oh, he's kind of cute. Then I was sitting down for an interview and they asked me to name someone cute and I couldn't remember anyone, but then I remembered that guy. So then I said his name and then David thought I had a crush on him. And I'm just like, yeah, so boring.

[Kathy]

Yeah. And they're so young, which is why, like, actually me and my husband have been together since we were really young. It would be so boring if I sat down and wrote how we met. We were pissed. Then we were at a party. Like, it's so boring and like, it's

[Chelsea Devontez]

so true to life. So I loved that. Where I was like, oh, yeah, it's a very real courtship of just tiny, boring moments leading to this. It's like, Victoria loved Aston Martins. I'd heard that. So then I tried to rent an Aston Martin. And you're like, okay, so one thing you wrote in a note that I want to ask you about, you said she retold stories from the book and her documentary that changed details to suit the new narrative of her as a designer. What discrepancies did you notice in the documentary and this memoir about herself as a designer?

[Kathy]

This was fascinating to me, and I'm probably the only person who's doing this textual cross analysis right now. I watched the documentary first where she talks about she's trying to, like, retcon and say she always wanted to be a fashion designer, which simply isn't true when you read this book, because it's never once mentioned. All she wants to be in this book is a singer, and she tries to be an actress as well. And she says that in the documentary that she got a private jet, flew her over to Versace, and she went into Dontell, Versace, Stor, and that she got to try on anything she wanted. And she picked a dress, and she's like, I want this change. I want that change. And she entirely redesigns the dress, right? Yeah. And she went in a private plane. Now, this is really nitpicky, but in the book, she went in a helicopter from Nice and she says, and I picked a black dress, and it was really nice.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Right.

[Kathy]

I feel like if she'd really redesigned the dress, that would have been in the book, because that's pretty fucking ballsy to redesign a Versace dress. There's also then this. Sorry. That was the discrepancy I noticed, but it was enough for me to go. I'm mistrusting now of details. Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

One of those two accounts is wrong. We don't know which one.

[Kathy]

And look, loads of time has passed, and she's been in a million private jets now. So maybe she's like, oh, it was a private jet, but it was a private helicopter. But to me, he's been in neither.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

And just the redesigning of the dress thing, I felt like it was fake when I saw it in the documentary. And then I read the piece in the book after, because the book's so tedious. I kept putting it down, and I was like, wait a second. And that was like, honestly, pathetically, the greatest thrill of reading this book is that discrepancy, because that's how boring the book is, that I was, like, looking for Something to think about as I read it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, Kathy, I love that you caught that. And also, I just really want to underline this, because when we talk about Brooke Lynn, the importance of her as a fashion designer and fashion house, I think are at the crux of this family debacle. So we'll come back to it. You also sent me this note. I'm gonna read it out loud. It made me laugh so hard. You said Victoria has since stated that she's never read a book. And after reading her book, I believe it.

[Kathy]

Like, that's a crazy. She said she's never read a book.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Also, the audacity of. For people, someone to say that, even if it's true, like, that you don't even know that. Maybe you shouldn't say that is a level of emotional intelligence I can't get behind for sure. Maybe you never read a book. You don't even know to not say that.

[Kathy]

Like, oh, my God, and you've written a book. You've made us sit through your book, but you've never read a book.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But you've never read a book. And actually, after, even if she read her own book, I'm gonna say, you've never read a book. You read a pile of words.

[Kathy]

But, yeah, okay, let's talk about some David specifics.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So I found it refreshing, but then frustrating, given how much they make a show of, like, we are not about a brand. We are not about blah, blah, we are not about fame. Like, we just. We are just nice. He constantly has quotes in the press of like, I'm just a nice, normal guy. Like, leave me alone. But he loves how famous Victoria Beckham is. And by his own words in the book, which, again, and it's refreshing. I'm like, yeah, good. You loved it. You were like, oh, my God, I'm dating Posh Spice. I'm my.

[Kathy]

Can I read you an extract?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, please.

[Kathy]

Am I like, I look like Carrie in Homeland, right? With all my notes here. All I do is voice. If I'm honest, all that side of it made being Victoria even more exciting. It was a daily reminder of just how good she was at what she did. I love the whole package. Her looks, her personality, her energy, those legs. But I was really turned on, too, by her talent and the recognition in the public eye that came her way because of it. I knew I wasn't the only person out there who thought she was a star.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm sorry, I was not ready for your David Beckham impression.

[Kathy]

I did it for my husband earlier. I said, does it work? And he was like, that's really alarming. Thank you.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I think we'll play a little clip of David here just to show how accurate your impression was.

[Kathy]

They make mistakes. Children are allowed to make mistakes. That's how they learn. So that's what I try to teach my kids. But, you know, you have to sometimes let them make those mistakes as well. It's also. He says things like, sorry, I've underlined it all because I kept laughing. He actually keeps giving film references. Did you notice? He'll talk about, like, Lawrence of Arabia. And he says, here, they're at a lake in a hotel. I won't do the voice again. We were both wearing towel ropes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, do the voice, Kathy. Do the voice right now.

[Kathy]

We were both wearing toweling robes. That's not right. Which wasn't exactly the obvious costume for the drama. He's always talking about the costumes and drama and, like, it being a show, but when it's just the two of them. And again, is it the Ghost Rider? Is it him? I don't know how you read memoirs because I've wound myself in knots wondering who's written what here. Whereas in the aforementioned books I mentioned I knew you all wrote them, so I wasn't sitting around wondering about who wrote these things. So a lot of it, he does quite cinematic references. Like, he's a very romantic writer, isn't he? The way he talks about her is very romantic. And the way she talks about him is, like, quite clinical. And I found that interesting as well,

[Chelsea Devontez]

because she was like, I don't care about soccer, I don't care about footballers, like, blah, blah. And then she's enamored with him, but she didn't care about his world. Whereas he seems to have really cared about her world.

[Kathy]

He really cares. Like, he talks about when he got to meet Madonna because of her. When he gets to meet Elton John, like, he's just listicling celebrities.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

But I kind of admire that he's kind of admitting he's a bit of a fame whore. Like, he's not.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But I think that that's what tripped me up. Because in the book, you're like, how refreshing. He's just like, this is sick. I love fame. I loved how famous she was. And then now, currently, they'll be like, we are not about fame in that life. And it's like, no, but you are. And that's okay. Just say it. Like, stop pretending you already wrote it. Yeah.

[Kathy]

Just admit it. And there's a few sweet things in David's memoir. And again, this all surprised me because I've really always teetered onto dislike of David Beckham, like, around the affair stuff and all that. I've always just found it really repulsive. But, like, he speaks really nicely about his mom and really nicely about his sisters and how hard it would have been for his sisters growing up with, like, all the attention he was getting. And I've not read a man more before, so correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, that. That's quite nice, right? Is that unusual for him to openly acknowledge the pain he's caused for women in his life? And he's really on his mom's side when his parents split up. You can really feel that as well.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. The bar for men's moirs is so low that, like, when someone achieves something, like simply being truthful about what happened to the women around them, you do want to be like, yay, this normally never happens. And you also want to be like, this is such a low bar. This should be the bare minimum. But, yeah, that's right. And also, but. But I thought it astutely pointed towards, yes, how close he is with his mom, but also how strained he is with his father, which I think is something interesting to think about when eldest son Brooklyn is now estranged with his dad, David. And David has been estranged to his father, who wrote an unauthorized biography about him.

[Kathy]

I'm so glad I didn't know at the time because I know I would have pitched to read the three of them because I just am that type a girl. And now I'm so glad I didn't know. I was trying to find summaries of it, though. I was, like, looking.

[Chelsea Devontez]

What'd you find?

[Kathy]

Apparently it was quite dull, but David was so annoyed he wrote it without telling him. And he'd already divorced from David's mom and the whole fallout. And they didn't speak for about five years until his dad had a health scare. So that is unbelievable that David's now not speaking to his son over, essentially, and on all sorts of memoir about him. Again, those Instagram stories.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, seriously, the patterns in this family, and I mean, to have a parent write a book about you when they raised you, and at 17, you're a famous footballer, and then that parent turns on you and writes about you. I can't believe they ever got over it.

[Kathy]

I know. Even though I don't think he wrote anything bad. What's fascinating to me about this, but

[Chelsea Devontez]

that you wrote it at all. Like, why it's crazy to get money off your kid again in another way.

[Kathy]

And I think he, like, from reading the book, the early book, and I. And I don't read sports books, but, like, I understand this is a pattern of famous sports people. The dad forced him into the playing soccer every night, soccer all weekend. The dad was obsessed at Man United, like, since birth. David was basically told, you're gonna play Man United someday. And I do think behind nearly every great sports person is a pushy parent or a pushy. An adult who's facilitating. Like, I have a son who's eight, who's soccer crazy. And I read this book, and I started to feel more and more guilty because he's always, like, asking me to play soccer. I always say no. And I thought, oh, my God, am I going to hold him back? So there's something in the dedication of the dad that I admire to an extent. And I wonder if the dad felt like he never got his flowers for being the one that pushed it and that's why he went and wrote the book. And I'll come back to you when I've read that book. I won't read it. I'm only missing. But I wonder if that's it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I think, absolutely, it has to be. And I also think that is what's so sick about this, that you'd be like, well, I made this kid and I need to get my. Whatever. It's a parent living through a kid when it's like, just live your own life. And they don't.

[Kathy]

It's like that King Richard movie, which I never saw, but that was all about the.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm sorry, are you saying it's just like a movie that you never saw?

[Kathy]

No. The dad of the Venus Williams. Wasn't that that movie? Oh, yeah, yeah. Of the Williams sisters.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I was going for the Shakespeare reference.

[Kathy]

So I was like, what?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes. No, absolutely. It's Tiger woods, dad. It's a lot of parents who live through their child. I think you could make the comparison to stage parents of, like, pop stars and things like that. And so, yeah, very fascinating, given what's gonna happen with him and his son. So let's now talk about.

[Kathy]

So much to talk. We deserve a Pulitzer for this because we're dissecting thousands, thousands of Pulitzes for you all.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Do you hear this, cookies?

[Kathy]

We deserve a Pulitzer if one existed

[Chelsea Devontez]

for reading bad memoirs. Well, we can make that. I can come up with that.

[Kathy]

Okay. Okay.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So let's talk about Brooklyn, Their first son, who they have before their official wedding. So they get engaged really quickly, they're engaged within four months. They're a tabloids dream. I can also see how that feeds back into their love for each other. Like they become an it couple and a power couple. One credit I want to give them, which is a weird credit, is that they both really seem to like that they both enjoy being a power couple. They both enjoy being famous off of being a couple. They're both that type of person, which then I'm like, well, you're a good match.

[Kathy]

That's. They're made for each other. Yeah. I came away from these books honestly thinking these two were made for each other.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's how I felt too. Which is funny because normally when you think like, oh my gosh, they're made for each other. What a marriage. You have another feeling of like, like, that's what I want or that's my life, that's that. And you have the opposite. You go, they're made for each other. And wow, I never want to be anything like them.

[Kathy]

They're so codependent. And this starts with their like, initial courtship because in fairness, they have the most psychotic schedules, right? Like he's always playing soccer, always training, and Victoria is like on this incredible treadmill of life with the Spice Girls. And she's like, in Japan one day in New York, next day he's like, even in soccer in England they have to like train on Christmas Day, right? They've no time together. So their relationship begins on like these really long phone calls, which I think a lot of us can relate to back in the like pre mobile phone days where you really would have spoken a lot to someone on the phone. But it seems to have continued and like, it's just weird now. Like they're married years and they're on the phone. Like she's on the phone to him at halftime of like serious games. I mean, get off the phone.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's so funny because I think I had a different read on it, which is like, yes, they both have such crazy lives. They built their love on being able to talk from being far away. And because they both continue to lead crazy schedules, they can continue to like show love that way and like continue to talk that way. They do seem to have taken it to an extreme, but I think it's actually really sweet that he's calling her during halftime.

[Kathy]

It suits them. But like, could you imagine, Right. Because I'm so impressed by you directing Basic and I can't wait to watch it as a movie podcaster first and foremost.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh my God, I can't wait for you to see my movie.

[Kathy]

I can't wait. Can you imagine that you're, like, in between takes and you're just on the phone to your husband constantly? That's what it seems to me that they're doing in, like, really important moments of. He's, like, at an England match at, like, the World Cup. Like, it's just not, like. It's pretty weird.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Well, and also, you're also like, why is he so isolated now? That said, there's a couple of. I have to be honest and say there's a couple of times. Not many, thank God. But there were, like, three things about this relationship where I said, I cannot speak of this because it is my relationship.

[Kathy]

And, like, oh, so funny.

[Chelsea Devontez]

My husband will definitely, like. Like, go have lunch with someone and call me on the way home to tell me about it. And then we get home and continue talking, which is like, yeah, that's okay.

[Kathy]

Yeah, but I'm not calling you at the lunch. Who knows what they're doing?

[Chelsea Devontez]

But, like, I remember, like, when I was shooting basic, like, and it. It was really hard to find time to talk, but we spoke every day, and it was really difficult. But then I spoke to other people in partnerships where they're on the movie and they're like, every day, like, I'm speaking to my partner, like, once every four days. Like, how are you doing this? And I'm like, oh, I'm a little like this. You know what I mean? I can see. I can see. Yeah, Serbia's playing football. That's like, see, now you think it's sweet, but when we read it about. And we're like, you sickos.

[Kathy]

Yeah, but that's all they talk about, though, because they talk about phones all the time to the point where. This is very sweet. At one point, David is somewhere. I can't remember where I saw Match, and he's like, I set up a video phone, a special video phone so I could see Victoria and Brooklyn. And it's, like this technological, like, revolution for them. It's like in the 60s when, like, the phone, you know, because, what, 2001, it's so old. Like, I keep forgetting how old the book is.

[Chelsea Devontez]

They spend an amount of phone time that does make you think that they are. Are really isolated from other parts of their life. However, it is a piece where, like, maybe this explains staying together 27 years through multiple affairs and things like that.

[Kathy]

I think it really explains it. Yeah. And, like, I know we're getting onto Brooklyn, but, like, the Other thing about them both in that time of their life is like, they're both famous, but, like, you know, the sum is greater than the. Whatever. What's that expression? The sum is greater than its parents.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kathy]

And they just explode. And they have. Have such insane lives that the only thing they do that isn't either him out kicking a football or her being on stage or plugging a record is speaking to each other on the phone. So that must have been very grounding. She says at one point she doesn't even know where she is. And like she always has to ask for a room in a window in her telling room just so that she can see daylight. Yeah, it's pretty grim.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also that is definitely a theme in celebrity memoirs of like, where am I, what city am I in? Sometimes you've heard stories where it's like, I'm gonna get the details wrong, but it's like Alanis Morissette thanked Braz when she was in Hong Kong or something like that.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But when you really read through how often this happens to people because someone else is handling their schedule and they're just to get all the things done, they just show up. You. You see how it can happen.

[Kathy]

And yes, it seems really difficult, like my tiny violin for them, but it did seem like they were each other's rock through that, which is beautiful. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Now, so they get together quite fast, their sensation quite fast. Okay, so the timeline is she has Brooklyn moves to Manchester and she has a child and is now like away from the Spice Girls, but he is still full on football career. And this is where cracks start to show in that, like there's an allegation here that he cheats on her when she's five months pregnant and things like that. And then also they are gonna get married four months after Brooklyn is born, which means the planning of the wedding is happening while she's pregnant. Now I'm curious, what was your take on the dynamic of the wedding planning? Because your note says she was more about the lead up to the wedding, where he focuses on the wedding itself, like in the book.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So what was your take on how they both wrote about their wedding?

[Kathy]

And it's funny because it struck me as it's possibly a familiar pattern because it's something that like I identified with as well as someone whose husband was really involved in the wedding. But I just, I think thought about it more. So she's really talking about the build up to the wedding, what she's planning, the Vera Wang dress, blah, blah, blah. Whereas he's just like, yeah, the wedding was happening. And then he spends ages on the wedding. Like, about the, like, speeches. Men get really fixated on wedding speeches, I think, where women are, like, sure, it's a part of, like, 100 things that happened in the day, but for the men, it's like, the only thing they had to do. I just found that really interesting. It's kind of the one time where we were getting different sides to the same story from them, which I love. Yeah, I liked it, too. I also found that, like, just before that, when he's like. It was really hard for Victoria going from being, like, a Spice Girl to just being, like, at home with a baby, and it was lonely for her, and that's like a paragraph for him. But for Victoria, that's, like, a lot. Like, you know, pretty big things. Chunk. The shock I went from. From working in a normal office job and then living in the same house with the same friends and just not being in an office job and being at home with a baby was like, you know, anyone who's done that will know how difficult that is. So to go from being like Madison Square Garden to being in a flat in Manchester while your husband's out all day kicking a ball. And I feel like a part of me would be like, I know you're earning millions of pounds from being a soccer player, but, like, you're fucking kicking a ball around all day. Like, get a real job. Like, I know how spiteful I get about that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also the power dynamic of, like, she the global superstar, right? And he loved that about her. And they're a power couple. And now she's given up that part of herself in this moment, at least, while he's continuing on in his glory and how difficult that has to be on a relationship that seems to thrive on mutual power.

[Kathy]

So, yeah, and I think it's one of the reasons she's so pissed off at Jerry, because I think Jerry left around right when she was pregnant. And so she was possibly looking at Jerry's solo career and thinking, well, you tanked the band, and now I'm stuck at home. And she's constantly referencing throughout, like, the other girls have already singles already. I haven't released a single. Like, she's always looking outward at other people's success, and Geri got to number one and Emma only got to number two. And she's giving all these details on the other girls, like, record sales and stuff. And, like, I don't blame her for it. It's something we all do. But like she's just always comparing herself to other people. But it's like really detrimental if she's doing it this much in the book. Imagine how much she's doing it, like in her mind. Of course.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, of course, of course. And also why the wedding does become such a big deal to you? Because that's the thing, that's your momentum, that's your next concert or whatever for her.

[Kathy]

And she says that like, yeah, it's my big thing. And what's fascinating is, and it was such a big deal, this wedding, like over here, like for context, like at the time in the uk, people broke out into fights and news agents, like, trying to get their hands on this magazine. Right. It was like the first kind of big deal of its kind. Okay. Magazine paid a million pounds for the rights to the wedding, which they sold

[Chelsea Devontez]

the rights to their wedding.

[Kathy]

Yeah. And they say that they did it for the fact that OK magazine would then cover the security of the wedding and ensure that it was entirely private. And they got married in Ireland, which didn't go down well in Ireland, by the way. And it is like, well, yeah, but you could have just had a private wedding. Like they courted the press so much.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And again, like one thing that I guess, I guess I'll give the Kardashians this, is that when you're like, you're a fame mongering whore, they're like, yeah, wanna buy protein popcorn.

[Kathy]

Exactly.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And when they're like, you know, to Victorian, they're like, you're fame mongers. They're like, no, no, we're not. We'.

[Kathy]

Right.

[Chelsea Devontez]

We're normal. We're normal. It's like, guys, no one cares. Just like sell your son's hot sauce. Like, just admit it.

[Kathy]

And you know, they made. So they made three editions out of OK magazine out of this wedding. That's how much they milked it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It was at a castle and there were only 27 people.

[Kathy]

Yeah. In the ceremony. But then they had like 200 at the bigger thing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kathy]

But like they got the Bishop of Cork, which made me laugh so much because I'm from Cork. So the Bishop of Cork married them and he was wearing purple apparently. And they all called him Purple Spice afterwards, this bishop. But like the wedding is like, there's so much that's not in the book about the wedding, actually. And I recommend there's this great podcast called Talk 90s to Me. And they did an episode last week just on the wedding and they went through every OK magazine and read all the Copy and stuff. It was so funny.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wait, that's amazing.

[Kathy]

Yeah, it's really cool.

[Chelsea Devontez]

The one thing that we have to talk about, this wedding. And again, this is where I said, I cannot cast a stone. They have thrones and they have matching purple outfits. And it's a hideous shade of purple. Like they were definitely like, how do we be different? But they're also matching. So she's in a purple dress, he's in a purple suit. They are carrying baby Brooklyn Beckham, who, as I said, looks like little Steve Harvey in his matching purple suit. It's absolutely hideous. And they have thrones. You look at it, you're like, this is crazy. And to that I say, I would have done that. I would have done it and I still would. If we renew our vows, you might see me in just matching magenta outfits. Like it is. There's something so fun about it. Like, I love insanity. Like that a wedding's already insane. I love being insane about it. But what is your take on it?

[Kathy]

It's funny, I look at it differently now. At the time, like even as like a 13 year old or whatever, I was like, this is so fucking tacky. I can't believe they've done the thrones. I was like aghast in a way where like I didn't really have a sense of style. Like as I said, I had copied Posh Spice's hair, but I was just like, this looks really gauche. And now I look at it and I'm like, that's playful and that's really funny.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

So I'm obsessed.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

I just. At the time it was really. And like, it's funny that the purple thing was like for the afters, but like for the ceremony, it was the one white. They both wore matching white and she wore a Vera Wang. And like it's. I'm sorry, but I think it's horrible dress. Like, I can't believe that dress.

[Chelsea Devontez]

£100,000 of dress. Like that is so much money for a mid dress. Again, given that she is going to have a fashion house, she is going to as we're going to get into make wedding dresses. That's what's wild.

[Kathy]

That's the crazy thing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, absolutely. But once again, gotta say, say love the thrones. You can hate me for it, but I love it. It is your special day.

[Kathy]

Okay, guys, maybe it was a cultural thing as an Irish person where I was like, you're coming into Ireland and sitting in a castle and sitting on top. Okay. Yeah, that it is. Yeah. I might have had like a. It's in my blood not to accept this. Oh, yeah, I just. I won't hear about it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, well, we've rented out a warehouse for our wedding. Let's sit in some fake costume thrones. You're very right. This hits differently in that costume context. Kathy, thank you so much for pointing that out.

[Kathy]

But, like, they don't mention David's like, oh, we sold it for privacy. And then, no, that's the only thing they mentioned. But, like, we know they sold news of the pregnancy announcement. They sold Brooklyn's baby photos. According to the ex editor of OK magazine in his biography, and I've forgotten his name now, he said that every Friday. He used to be over in Victoria Beckham's mom's house cooking up stories to feature in ok. Like, they basically kept OK magazine afloat. But as you read both biographies, they only mention selling one thing. And again, I just think the dishonesty is very insidious in these books. Like, they're really letting us know what they want us to know and that they're so obsessed with controlling the narrative, which is why the whole thing has spun out so much of them, I think, beginning with Rebecca Lewes, where they couldn't control it, and then all the pelt stuff. Now, they had a time back then where they really did control the media.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, absolutely. And they will sue different publications and settle with them. And also, rightly so, Victoria speaks out about all the sexism she faced. Like, she would go to David's games and a chant would start and it would be Posh Spice takes it up the R's. Which really made me think of Jessica Simpson attending Tony Romo's games of, like, these pop star women, who, again, are supposed to be the most powerful famous woman in culture at that moment. And hundreds and thousands of mostly male fans gather to rip you to pieces. And the media rips you to pieces. And so you can also see why they want the control. And again, yeah, I just wish she'd been like, hey, they chanted that I take it up the butt as a way to devalue me. And so I'm always gonna control the narrative. I'm always gonna sell my shit if you're gonna.

[Kathy]

If I have to live through that,

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm gonna make money off of my wedding. As opposed to, like, no, no, no. We're just like, normal, normal, nice and cute, and we're just chilling.

[Kathy]

And it's like, she doesn't read anything. Like, she doesn't take meaning from anything. And, like, they both reference how awful the English football fans are. And this is not me being Irish. And I lived in England a lot of time, my kids were born there, so I technically have English children. The English soccer fans are known to be like, the worst in the world.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

And they both reference it multiple times. Like, I have friends who, like, in England won't bring their kids to games. And it's awful. Like, it's so. It's. When it's not violent, it's nasty. And the atmosphere in other countries, like, like when people know English teams are coming, they're like, oh, my God, the English fans are gonna come. So that is a real, real part of it. And they say, like, at one point he says that, like, fans are screaming at him like, Brooklyn's gonna get cancer. Brooklyn takes it up the arse. Like they're saying insane things. So, like, the level of vitriol that David experienced particularly, and like, it's well documented in the documentary on Netflix, but it's well documented here as well. Jesus. I was skipping some soccer matches. But like, the abuse he got from the fans and the country when he got like a red card at the broke up and he got kicked off and the entire country blamed him for them not getting through. And like how one of the Piers Morgan's paper made a dartboard of his face, which is insane. That's such a violent thing to make. So it's a funny thing when you're reading the book because you feel really bad for them, but then you also think, but this is what you wanted. It's so fucked up.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, you do feel really bad for them. And I think because it's built into their origin story of success. Like, he's going to get success and she's going to get success, and all this vitriol is built into that. Then they become very controlling of that success. That being said, they've never once been like, hey, let's take all of these millions and go live happily. Let's go invest in a farm. They've never retreated from the spotlight. In fact, they just keep putting out documentaries, keep putting out things because they keep building this quote unquote brand, which actually feeds a bunch of other smaller brands and ventures. But, like, they're still doing photo shoots where they show up with them and all the kids as a way to be like you, Brooklyn. Like, the family is still together.

[Kathy]

Like, they've learned nothing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, absolutely. Learn nothing. And you have to say, okay, you do want this.

[Kathy]

Oh, they want it so much.

[Chelsea Devontez]

You want you for 27 years and you currently still want this. So, like, I do feel bad for you. However, you have not gotten yourself out of it in moments when you could have. Let's just talk about quickly, page 188 in your copy. Will you read about the first dance stuff?

[Kathy]

Right, so back to the wedding. This made me laugh so much. It's funny because I started on David's book and I thought David's book was boring until I got to Victoria's book. And I now look at his book with a great fondness.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Painful.

[Kathy]

I got to this part and I was in bed and I actually screamed. My husband was like, what's wrong? The bride and groom, of course, had to have the first dance of the evening together. It made me laugh so much because of course we know in the evening part of Brooklyn's wedding that his dance was Fitz Victoria. I just thought, there it is in black and white. They know that's fucked up.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, yes. And there's differing accounts, but no matter what it is in writing, they both know the bride and groom are supposed to have the big dance. And again, having had one of the big weddings of the centuries all over magazines, like an iconic wedding, whether you like it or not, family history repeating itself with now Brooke Lynn and Nicholas wedding. Like these are big cultural events by their own making. And they're repeating family drama at them.

[Kathy]

And there's other trauma that it repeats, right, Because David's like, historically got this terrible relationship with Alex Ferguson as his manager of Man United that kind of gets really fraught once he marries Victoria. Cause he thinks that David's really distracted from football. So basically immediately after the wedding, David and Alex Ferguson get in this, like, massive fight. Alex Ferguson won't give him time off for the honeymoon. It's like really bitter. Alex Ferguson's trying to keep him from Victoria. He's telling him not to go down to London, he needs to stay in Manchester. I'm like, isn't that really interesting that, like, it seems like they were also trying to, I don't know, but, like, keep Brooklyn from his girlfriend or get in between them or whatever was going on there, demanding them to control. They're trying to control someone else's relationship. But he keeps talking about how important nothing will get between him and his wife. And I'm like, couldn't you have learned a lesson there that like, you can try and get between married couples? Like, it won't work. Like, I've never heard of that being successful tactic for anybody.

[Chelsea Devontez]

They found a power from being together that they couldn't find separately and they couldn't find within their other lives. And this exactly the same thing has happened. Brooklyn and Nicola have found a power in being together that they keep trying to put them in separate jeeps and separate safaris and it's not happening. Let's talk about some quick Brooklyn highlights and then we'll kind of do a big wrap up. So poor Brooklyn was, you know, in their eyes, born to be a footballer, a soccer player. Victoria even in places has been like, I knew he might be a famous soccer player, so we had to have a famous soccer name. And that's how Brooklyn came about. And you're like, oh, my God. And then later they will state like, the pressure on him to live up to his dad was so intense that no one wanted that for him and he didn't want that for him. I'm not sure that's what happened, but that, like in how the choice was made. But in these books, they're like, he's so good at soccer. He's really good guys.

[Kathy]

He's really good. He's like one. And he can really kick that because he's a baby. In these books, of course, I think my children are prodigies, but like, the way they talk about Brooklyn, it's really evident throughout how much they love him. And again, his first child, his first child syndrome. Hilariously, the second kid is born by the end of David's book and he barely gets mentioned. All they talk about is Brooklyn. David's getting a tattoo of Brooklyn, but the football thing is bad. And apparently when he was like 14 or 15, he did start in one of those kind of professional like junior camps or whatever, but it didn't work out. But, like, why would you try and give your child the same career as you?

[Chelsea Devontez]

I also, I really, I really feel for Brooklyn because when you look at Brooklyn from the outside, you're like, oh, my God. But when you get on the inside, you're like, you were going to grow up a wet Kleenex because of what your parents like. The pressures they put on you, the pressures the world put on you, you can see that they're pushing him towards football. And when that's not going to happen for him, the pressure to have another big career as some sort of brand type or big person in the world, I imagine that's crushing when you're 16 and you already haven't lived up to your dad's footballer image. And then someone said this in the Patreon or sent me something about this and it really hit me, which is that Brooklyn's photography book. That is laughable and ridiculous. He was 17 when that started.

[Kathy]

Like, I. I would die if anyone saw anything artistic. I did when I was 17, you know what I mean?

[Chelsea Devontez]

I made a lot of collages that I thought should be framed. I think I did frame some in my own bedroom.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And if those are printed and people are like, okay, your little magazine collage ain't shit paint.

[Kathy]

And. And the other thing that was sent

[Chelsea Devontez]

to me in the Patreon was that Victoria really was behind that book deal.

[Kathy]

Of course she was.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It wasn't Brooklyn being like, I'm a photographer. Let me put my book and my art out. It was Victoria being like, you like photography, have a photography book. Maybe it was David pushing that too. But anyways, pushing it on a kid. And this was my theory that I stated before, and I really stand behind it now, which is the only way for him to feel like a person with any agency was to marry into a power away from his family. That's how he felt. And that's. That's why I see in just so many memoirs.

[Kathy]

Yeah. Because how would you escape it otherwise?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, exactly.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I think it drew him to someone like Nicola because everyone's like, oh, Nicola's so overbearing. It's probably what he fucking loves.

[Kathy]

Oh, it's so dark. I think, because when you read this book, it's like they. To me, for all their faults and like, they're just ridiculous how much they put their kids out in the public as content. I never felt more love. Like, I felt the most love from both of them towards Brooklyn than I even did towards each other, which, as we already already said, is really evident. It pains me, as someone with two sons now to imagine being in that. I ca. I can't fathom what. What's happening in that family. And like, it's really sad because you're just reading here or. We did this with Brooklyn. We did that at Brooklyn. I was trying to breastfeed Brooklyn. Brooklyn was hungry. All the things you go through as a mom and like to read it with the knowledge of what's happened now. It's just like.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also what took from this too, is the way they make it through. I'm gonna say alleged affairs. Will it come on?

[Kathy]

Allegedly.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Allegedly. But the way they make it through is they really put family first. And then a lot of their press quotes, both. When he's going through the affair allegations, he'll be like, victoria's the best wife. And I have a great family and nothing will change that. Family, family, family. They go to events, they pose with the family, the family unit, I think, and them having a family, which they clearly both love, having a family is what kept the marriage together. I think when the marriage was strained, they would do it for the family, so to stay together. And I think Brooklyn was a lot of that because he was first. And again, yeah, in now, seeing what's happened, I can't imagine. I mean, this is just the deepest wound for them. Even if they did create it just too public.

[Kathy]

Like, when David and his dad fell out, from what I could find in my extensive research, there wasn't like, mudslinging going around. I think the line having been crossed of the. Just that line where he said, like, my mom was dancing on me inappropriately. I just think, I'm sure she wasn't grinding on him. I'm sure he felt uncomfortable. And I think he's like, no offense, but, like, this is offensive, but I just say, isn't maybe that bright? And I think he's been, I do think he, someone whoever wrote that statement for him was really fucking mean to write the word on, because it shouldn't. That word on shouldn't have been in there. Yeah. And there's no way she grinded on him.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, come on.

[Kathy]

Like, it's not, there's no way she did that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I, I think, yeah, I, I. And what I said is, like, I think she, like, put her head on his shoulder and cried, my baby boy. And like that it went from there. Also, like, if it's the. To the song that we think it is from Mark Anthony, it's pretty upbeat song, so I guess your hips are moving.

[Kathy]

Did you hear what DJ Fat Tony said about it?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, but you say it again here.

[Kathy]

He said, he went on, like, this morning on ITV in the UK and he said that he was at the wedding, DJing it firsthand account. Pretty reliable. He said that Marc Anthony did call her up. Everyone was really uncomfortable. Nicola ran off. And then he said he put on like a Latin, this is his language, like a Latina song. And that it was just kind of hip, gyratingy, like, Latina. So he said, yeah, it's kind of inappropriate, but, like, it could be perceived as sexy, but it wasn't her grinding on him. And I do believe, I think that makes sense because it would kind of add up to what Brooke Lynn was saying as well.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. And also I think he's reliving that story probably a lot with Nicola at Home being like. And then she took you and grinded on you and think again. This also comes from another clip that was posted in our patreon of how much misogyny goes into weddings and the brides and the mother in law, blah, blah. And David's really not getting the rap he deserves for again, he had an estrangement with his dad, now he's creating an estrangement with his son. It was David's birthday party where he refused to see his son. So David has just as big of a hand in this, if not more. But obviously writing that about Victoria is going to catch all the headlines and make all the memes of like her dancing on you. And I do think like, if you came into this world and a little purple Steve Harvey suit, keeping your parents united as your dad maybe cheats on your mom the day you get married to a woman who might be taking you away from the family, they probably did pull some wild shit. While I've seen wild and toxic shit at weddings for less stakes than we have to say about here, can I

[Kathy]

tell you my theory about like Victoria being kind of plays a long game in terms of payback, as we've discovered from people who wronged her when she was like seven. I genuinely think when the Rebecca Lewis thing happened, which David very briefly alludes to in the book, which I can read, but I think she's like, well, we're never breaking up now.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, well. And also will you tell people the Rebecca Loose thing? For anyone who doesn't know Rebecca Loose was his. Why would you assign a 23 year old or whatever, she was personal hot assistant to David as he moves to Madrid. The question we have for everyone, but basically that they have an affair and then she goes public about it.

[Kathy]

She goes public, she's like his translator. And it's the first time David will have been out of the country really, other than at soccer matches, like in a city that he says himself he's falling in love with Spain and he really seems to love living there. And Victoria's staying back with the kids because the schools don't work, yada yada. Anyway, she claims they had a four month fair. This book of his was republished with an extra chapter about his year in Spain. Most of it was, which is like tedious because he's just writing about soccer matches, but he does he for three pages address it in here and how he said this is how he introduces it. And like this is wild to me. Jazzy, as someone who doesn't read a lot of Memoirs. I feel like you need to tell the reader what you're talking about so that if they've never heard of you before, they need to understand what the passage is.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, Kathy. Welcome to celebrity memoirs. They love a metaphor and no names when addressing their own drama. It's like, and then the clouds darkened as a new day was upon me in Spain, and nefarious efforts would come towards me in a river of gossip.

[Kathy]

That's basically what David's like. He says, why a whole sorry procession of spiteful stories about me turned up in the press and on TV during my first season in Madrid, I can only guess at. Maybe they were all about the individuals involved, making a bit of money at mine and my family's expense. Maybe, though, there was more to them than that. Sometimes it felt as if people were trying to break up my marriage. If that's what they were hoping to achieve. I hope they realize by now that they misjudged my relationship with Victoria completely. If anything, we've come through stronger than ever. This made us hold each other and Brooklyn and Romeo closer. So he's just like, go fuck yourself, Rebecca. Lose. But I want to go back to an earlier chapter where Victoria references the allegations you mentioned when she was five months pregnant. And she says three different women told stories that they, like, shagged or slept with David. Right. I actually do think that they were probably made up because at the time, he was living in England and, like, seeing Victoria all the time. And, like, who has the time, right? But she basically calls the women slappers. She's really nasty about them. She says that she believed David, but that she was so angry, she punched David in the face. And then she says, well, I'm gonna go out, put on a brave face, and I'm gonna put on a show, and I'm gonna pinch him on the butt in front of the camera so everyone knows that we're okay and we're still a unit. And I thought, oh, wow, this is, like, three years whatever, before Rebecca Lewis. But this is exactly how they handled the Rebecca Luce situation, wasn't it? Probably behind doors. She was punching him in the face all the rest of it. And then she went out, and they were, like, the most united front you've ever seen, which I. I think not

[Chelsea Devontez]

only how they handle the Rebecca Loose situation, it's how they handle every situation. I mean, the Brooklyn thing came out, and they. They went and all stood together as a family unit. Sands Brooklyn, like, on some red carpet,

[Kathy]

just like they're becoming. It's an immediate Reaction.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I wanna. I wanna wrap our episode up with two quotes, and then we're gonna do the booktool test. Now. Here's the first quote. It's E. News. David and I both realize that we are stronger together than we are as individuals. Would either of us be in the position that we are in now had we not met and been together all those years ago? It's all about the family unit. And this is that refreshing honesty where, yes, you don't sing anymore. And the fashion house, I think they're profitable selling beauty products, but it's not selling, like, fashion.

[Kathy]

I've heard the eyeliner is amazing, by the way, but I've never used it, but apparently it's like the best eyeliner ever made.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm about to order it immediately.

[Kathy]

And.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And David is more successful in that all his millions from soccer has gone into other brands and companies, and he funds Victoria's fashion House. However, they're stronger together than as individuals. True. We would not be in the position we are in life had we not met. True. And then they end with, it's all about the family unit. Which again, goes to my theory of, like, this is how they've stayed together even when they maybe haven't wanted to be married. And the final thing I want to end with that, I think really wraps it up, is that Brooklyn revealed wisdom he got from his parents about married life that he also shared on E. In August 2022. And that this is the advice they gave the newlyweds. So if you think it is a testament to stay together 27 years through all this shit, okay. Because maybe you shouldn't have. I don't know. But if you think it is a testament, all that you've learned in 27 years, years of a famous, famous marriage, the advice you are gonna pass down to your eldest going into his now famous marriage is this. Ready? Just love each other, Try and not worry about anything. Keep working, and just try and have fun.

[Kathy]

That is like greeting card written by ChatGPT.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's a greeting card. You would pick up and be like, I'm not giving that to someone. This is horrible. And here's the thing. I'm praying something better was said and filtered through. Through Brooklyn's brain. Maybe came out as this. I'm praying they had something better. But, like, just love each other. That is not real advice. Like, if that was advice, you could just be like, just love them. Like that. Here's.

[Kathy]

Maybe it's deliberately bad advice because they hate Nicola. Okay.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Maybe I would Say, this is advice my therapist gives me. Now, here's good advice for a relationship. Are you ready for everyone? I'm gonna give you advice. When you're in a fight with someone, your relationship that you really want, you ask, do you wanna be right or do you want the relationship? Relationship. And you can make either choice. But if you want the relationship, you're going to take different steps to heal that relationship than if you want to be right. Just love each other is not like, you're just like, okay. And then try and not worry about anything.

[Kathy]

I mean, that's terrible. You should worry. And you should worry, like, if your partner's unhappy, if you're unhappy, you need to worry. You need to wonder why. You need to think, do we need to do something different in this relationship? It's real denial stuff.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Also, like, you can't go like, hey, how do you have a good life? Try not worry about anything. It doesn't work like that.

[Kathy]

Then they say, if you're that rich,

[Chelsea Devontez]

it does keep working and just try and have fun. So those are opposite things. Working and just having fun. So anyways, to which I say, everybody's marriage is doomed. They're living their doom. They're doing it hand in hand. And Brooklyn and Nicola, who knows what happens to them, but they. They weren't set up for success.

[Kathy]

It's something I think about. Like, I've been thinking about this obviously too much over the last two weeks, but, like, if one of my kids said, I'm marrying someone whose dad is like a MAGA billionaire, like, I dropped dead, like, I can't imagine anything worse. And then that he goes and quarantines with them during the pandemic and he's like a Trump supporter. That is such scary shit. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That you maybe would want to break him away from.

[Kathy]

Yeah, exactly. Like, is that, like, if your kid goes into a cult, like, I don't know, I heard a report that Nicola Peltz gets, like a million dollars a month pocket money. Like, that is so scary.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I will also say, and I really, again, I will point out both the misogyny that these women are gonna take the headlines more than Brooke Lynn and David will.

[Kathy]

No, I'm sorry, like, to drag this on, but, like, we forgot to talk about the fact that there was this whole, like, threat of Brooklyn being kidnapped as a baby. Right. And this terrible incident where their bodyguard, like, sold all this gossip about them and was tipping the press off and they lived in fear for, like, a year. So in the first year of Brooklyn's life. He lives this closeted life where he doesn't even go out in the garden because they're afraid that like someone will try and kidnap him. And there's a point where Victoria says that Brooklyn is out in the rain and they realize it's the first time Brooklyn's felt rain because he goes in the car everywhere or else he's in the house. That like, sorry. As someone in England, the first time the child felt rain, like in a year is so alarming. It rains every day there. And that shows you how closet is cloistered. Fucked up his childhood was.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That also was my takeaway where it's like, oh, the child didn't know what rain was. He can write a five page Instagram post, do whatever you want. Brooklyn, you didn't know what weather was.

[Kathy]

And they talk at the end. Like, Victoria's book kind of ends on this positive note where her and David feel comfortable to like bring him to the park now. And they bring him to McDonald's and they've started doing normal things. And I thought, like, that's nice, but like, that's not true. This book ends too early in their relationship and it's not true. They didn't keep bringing Brooklyn to McDonald's into the park and all that. Like, they just didn't. So I don't know, it's just. You just come away feeling sad about the whole thing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Also, she's like a 27 year old new mom. Like, yeah, it's hard. It's hard. Okay, time for the book Dull Test. Here we go. We have two books to cover. First question, was the author vulnerable in the sharing of their truth? David's book?

[Kathy]

No. I think in some aspects of his life. But how the affair stuff was so glossed over, it's just not. Yes, but he's very vulnerable about his. I think he's vulnerable about his family and his feelings of being a father.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I agree. All right. Was Victoria vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?

[Kathy]

I think yes. I think her book's more. More vulnerable than David's a little bit.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. I'm gonna say zigga. Zigga. No. No, not at all. No.

[Kathy]

I mean, it's just like, it's so. The whole thing's so fake. It's like five of, like half of it's fake and half of it isn't serious.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay. Second question, was it entertaining to read? I can answer for both books in one word and that is a no.

[Kathy]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

How about you?

[Kathy]

Two word answer, which is fuck no. Except, like, same answer. Like, in the sense of I was entertained because I was like, got so into it. I was watching her documentary, I was listening to the music, and then I went and watched Spice World the other night.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, that's a good watch.

[Kathy]

So I got. Yeah, I got really into it all. But no, no, but as I said, once you've read Victoria's book, you, like, you remember with fondness the days of David's book.

[Chelsea Devontez]

It's brutal. All right, final question. Did reading these books elevate your life in any way?

[Kathy]

Okay. David's actually did. No, because as I said, I have a soccer mad 8 year old and I've been, like, paying no attention to his love of soccer. Right. And honestly, like, reading so much soccer and David and how much he talked about how it meant to him that his dad played soccer with him. This is so sad. But, like, when my son does soccer matches, I go, like, I don't watch them. I go for a walk, listen to podcasts. Probably you come back at the end of the match this time I stayed at the match and watched it and he was. He said, are you staying? Like, he couldn't believe. And then he kept looking at me. And then he kicked a goal and I caught his goal and I was there to cheer for him and I nearly cried with happiness. So it did elevate my life. Made me be a fucking better mother. Wait, and I feel like crying now. Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And also I. I feel like you can think back to when you're a little kid doing something your parents like, oh, do you need me there? And you're like, oh, no, it's fine. But then when they're there, it means so much. It means so much.

[Kathy]

Oh, wow.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I'm so happy you want. You read 1,000 pages for our podcast,

[Kathy]

then to watch my son play soccer.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I think for me, I do have to admit I have an emotional bandwidth of literally zero right now because I am finishing my. My film. So I will say maybe I was a bit more of a hater than normal, but I am a no. I'm a no. Like, any of my takeaways would be about, like, how to stay a brand for 27 years. And, like, I don't want that knowledge in my life. So I am a no. However, maybe kudos to them for weathering so many storms. Also, maybe you should have split up. I don't know. But I do think they are meant for each other. And to that I say happy Valentine's Day.

[Kathy]

To the they are meant for each other. Yeah, but, like, she could. Like, it's so lousy that he's fucking cheating on her date boy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

All I can pray is that she's cheating on him too and is just better at it. And then they come back together and they're like, we like being a power couple and we stay together. That's my Valentine's prayer for her, that she's getting dick wherever she wants it. Or something else. Whatever she wants. Kathy, your podcast is so delightful. You are the absolutely best guest. Please tell everyone where they can listen to you, find you, support your work. I know you show up on our Patreon chats and you have your own Patreon.

[Kathy]

So we're at the Cinema. It's actually 10 years since we started our podcast. This year. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. 2016, we record our walk home from the cinema. We started it in London. We now do it in Cork, and we literally turn on the mic on the walk to the cinema, talk about the movie that we're going to. We've usually picked based on what suits us to go to the cinema, same as anyone else. Then we review it on the walk home, and that's the podcast. It's very simple. And we've been doing it for 10 years. We just did a live show in London last week, actually. So I was in London reading David Beckham's book. Really embarrassed, like, hiding it on the plane. And our live show will be out. It will be our Valentine's episode where we did it in one of the Cruise Zone cinemas in London with. Some of your listeners will know our Helen o' Hara for Empire podcast. We did a whole podcast about rom coms and the history of rom coms in a cinema, which was so fun for us to record.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I am wearing a sweatshirt right now that says rom coms.

[Kathy]

Oh, yay. Ours was like the rise and fall of it as a cinematic genre and kind of talking about. About how it's moved over to tv. And it was such a good time and we got to meet some of our patrons. Right. We were in London, and one of our patrons traveled all the way from Wales to come to our live show. And we just to meet them in real life was like, to us, they are celebrities. It's amazing.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I love this as a Valentine's Day episode. Not only is it rom coms, it's 10 years an anniversary of your podcast, and it's you and your husband who talk about movies. I cannot wait to listen to this episode.

[Kathy]

Aw, thank you. Also, we're going to review Spice World. Because we've just watched it. I'm like, well, we have to review it now. So that will be up as well at some point. I mean, it was quite the ride to go back and watch that film. I'll tell you. Victoria's not that bad in it, actually. Not as bad as I remember. No, no, no.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I think there's some things where you're like, oh, God. But it's a fun rewatch. Kathy, thank you so much for being on. We will link to everything Kathy in the show notes so you can go find all of her stuff. And happy Valentine's Day out there. To all those who celebrate Happy Valentine's Day. A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every plate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes and if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier you can join, leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.

[Kathy]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try at mintmobile.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Com.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months or $180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.