Viral Article Book Club: The Loneliness Influencers

Summary

Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast — Viral Article Book Club: The Loneliness Influencers
Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guests: Katie Rich & Holly Laurent
Release Date: June 16, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Glamorous Trash dives into the viral phenomenon of “loneliness influencers” on social media, triggered by the Rachel Pick article, "The Loneliness Influencers: Inside the Luxurious Tedium of ‘I Have No Friends’ TikTok" from The Cut. Chelsea is joined by comedians Katie Rich and Holly Laurent (hosts of the podcast Soccer Moms) for an intimate, wide-ranging book club-style conversation exploring the cultural meaning, psychological impact, and personal resonance of publicly sharing solitude online.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sports Fandom and Friendship as Context [01:02–07:00]

• Timothée Chalamet and Knicks Talk: The ep begins with friendly banter around Timothée Chalamet’s New York Knicks fandom, segues into host Chelsea’s Dune obsession, and connects with the broader themes of community, fandom, and belonging.
• Chelsea explains her Lisa Nalgai(b) hat—Chalamet’s Dune character, reworked as a Knicks logo.
• Katie and Holly riff on sports watch parties as communal events and the problem with them sometimes being shut down (e.g., Knicks owner James Dolan clamping down on fan gatherings). This frames the later discussion of loneliness, public spaces, and how we build connection.

“This game is for the people.” — Chelsea paraphrasing New York City’s digital activism for Knicks fans [03:20]

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2. Introduction of the Guests & Their Podcast “Soccer Moms” [07:00–08:10]

• Katie Rich and Holly Laurent introduce the fictional/comedic premise of their Soccer Moms podcast — two friends in a minivan tailgating soccer games, exploring friendship, suburban life, and “sliding doors” versions of themselves. They highlight the mix of character work, improv, real interviews, and special guests.

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3. Article Synopsis & Theme Introduction [08:10–10:00]

• The host provides an overview of the Cut article, focusing on a shift in influencer culture: from showing off “what you have that others want” to laying bare what’s missing or absent (i.e., loneliness, lack of friends) in ways that are oddly aspirational or relatable.
• Examples cited: influencers posting mundane, solitary routines (“single girl who lives alone…grocery shopping at 10:04pm”), the act of romanticizing your own solitude, and the double-edged sword of “making the most” versus “romanticizing lack.”
• Chelsea reads quotes from the article to ground the discussion.

“I was never trying to romanticize having no friends. I was just trying to romanticize making the most of the current stage of life that you’re in.” — Atlanta SoloLife influencer (quoted by Chelsea) [08:36]

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4. The Appeal and Authenticity of “Loneliness Influencers” [10:00–12:54]

Aspirational Alone-ness:

• Holly notes the odd mixture: videos are bleak but also clean, cozy, even a little enviable (“this girl’s doing okay—this is a condo, look at that New York City view!”).
• Chelsea observes the beauty and peace in scenes of orderly solitude—appealing to those overwhelmed by messy, busy homes.

Relatability & Mental Health Hacks:

• Katie and Holly introduce the “Bear Analogy” for reframing partner’s messiness in relationships (“if you think of your spouse as a bear, it's impressive he got the trash near the trash can”). [11:03–12:02]
  • Chelsea: “I am the bear in my relationship and I’m going to tell my husband that.” [12:02]

Risk and Vulnerability in Making Loneliness Visible:

• The group discusses the stigma and emotional exposure in admitting to loneliness, yet how universal and validating it can be.
• Readers’ comments (from article): seeing themselves reflected in these posts reduced FOMO and made them feel less alone, sometimes preferring solitude due to past pain.

“Humans have caused a lot of pain in my life and so killed me. Yeah, I think there’s also something extremely relatable...about feeling lonely as hell right now.” — Chelsea, reading and reflecting [12:27]

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5. Cultural & Personal Dimensions of Loneliness [17:24–24:00]

Duality of Solitude:

• Holly: Evenings alone can be deeply life-giving for introverts; parents of many kids might envy the peace. Loneliness content can be both painful and pleasurable—a spectrum, not a binary.
• Katie raises the question: can public-facing content about being alone be called truly “introverted”? Or is this a new, more performative version of introversion? [18:39–19:03]
• Chelsea debates ambiversion (a mix of introvert/extrovert traits), noting her own need for both connection and seclusion.

“Life is what is—why did I forget that even being around strangers is so much more fulfilling...than staying on day 29 inside my own head?” — Chelsea [20:18]

How Online and In-Person Interaction Intersect:

• Katie: Both online and real-life connections are valid and necessary, but many only remember the value of IRL friendship after forced engagement (jobs, events).
• Holly: The pandemic shifted her from lifelong extrovert to tentative introvert, and wonders if it’s personal change, hormones, or pandemic effects—or all three. [21:28–22:28]

“[The pandemic] taught us how to be locked down in our homes.” — Katie [37:38]

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6. Social Isolation By the Numbers [22:28–24:07]

• Chelsea cites American Psychological Association surveys: half of adults report frequent isolation; loneliness among young adults has increased yearly since the ’70s.
• Traditionally, discourse focuses on masculine loneliness, but all agree it crosses gender.
• Online communities allow people to avoid IRL connection; influencers’ content reflects this.

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7. Is Loneliness Content Different from “Look at My Life!” Content? [24:07–26:19]

• For Katie, loneliness TikToks feel just as emotionally vacant or performative as typical “look at me in Paris!” influencer content.
• Chelsea reflects: there’s value in documenting life (for future self), but the intent behind “loneliness content” may be different—unclear if it’s for connection or for showing off aestheticized sadness.

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8. Authenticity, AI, and the “Dead Internet Theory” [26:19–29:38]

• Discussion of whether TikTok influencer Paulina C is real or an AI bot—her declining a phone interview sparks debate.
• The “dead internet theory” (Katie): much online content/commentary is bots, making it all feel less real.
• Holly and Chelsea recall seeing genuine online vulnerability lead to real-life connections, though it often feels safer for men.

“There was something where I was like, this can only happen to a man. However, it was also just so beautiful.” — Chelsea, describing a viral LA movie outing [28:12]

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9. The Power of Sharing Vulnerability—Stories and Strategies [29:38–37:04]

Making Friends as an Adult:

• Chelsea and guests discuss how finding new adult friends is hard, but possible—especially via structured activities (sports leagues, classes, book clubs). [30:09–30:59]
• Holly shares a memorable story (“The Bernardo Moment”): moving to Rome, boldly approaching a bar regular, making instant friends through honesty and stating her need (“I just moved to the neighborhood and I want to make friends”) [30:56–33:45].
• Katie describes hiding her role as a caregiver out of shame or fear, but finding more connection when speaking honestly about her circumstances.

“Once I started admitting it, boy, did I start to find people, and boy, did I start to get less lonely.” — Katie [34:18]

“I just heard myself say...I want to make friends.” — Holly [32:15]

• Chelsea ties this to her own experience of being donor conceived and finding community through podcasting and openness.

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10. Is Online Alone-ness Making Us More Alone? [37:04–39:49]

• The group discusses Issa’s quote: “We’re making the choice to be alone but not feel lonely.”
• Debate: Has pandemic-era convenience (delivery, at-home entertainment) made us worse at seeking connection, or just adapted us for new patterns? Is this adaptation necessary and healthy, or does it harm us when we aren’t careful?

“We’re just such an excruciatingly adaptive species...but we do have to keep checking in: is this thing I adapted to do still helping me?” — Katie [39:06]

• Chelsea references Kurt Vonnegut’s story of buying single envelopes as an excuse to go outside, highlighting the “in-between” moments as crucial connection points.

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11. Click Lit Quiz: Reflexive Reflection on the Article [39:49–43:01]

Three lightning-round questions addressed by all:

Was the article well-written?

• Holly: Yes, thought-provoking and raised questions about parasocial relationships.
• Katie: Yes, but abrupt ending—opened many unresolved threads.
• Chelsea: Yes, with poetic moments that resonated personally.

Did it make you want to talk about it?

• Resounding yes from all. They wanted to process ideas as a group, especially the trend-cycle risks of “loneliness” becoming an aesthetic or performance instead of being reality-based or constructive.

Did it deepen your thinking?

• For Katie: Yes, it challenged her initial judgment.
• For Holly: Yes, made her reflect on just how important friendships have been in her own life, and the challenges for those who lack easy access to community.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “If you think of your spouse as a bear, you’re like, wow, actually, it’s impressive that he even got the trash near the trash can.” — Katie Rich [11:25]
• “Everyone has a bear.” — Katie Rich [11:44]
• “Life is what is—why did I forget that even being around strangers is so much more fulfilling and nurturing than staying on day 29 inside my own head?” — Chelsea [20:18]
• “It is terrifying to make friends as an adult.” — Katie [30:09]
• “I just want to underline what you both said...the Bernardo story and the caregiver story—which both of them are being really honest about where you’re at in life and sharing it...because that’s the same thing I experienced my entire life.” — Chelsea [35:04]
• “We’re being catered to—adaptable to a fault.” — Katie [37:39]
• “You can practice getting there [to honesty]...Say it to a therapist. Say it to a cat.” — Chelsea [36:46]
• “It’s worth it.” — Katie, about the struggle for real friendship [45:06]

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Final Thoughts & Practical Takeaways

• Friendship is hard, but possible: Structured activities and honest vulnerability help adults find genuine connection.
• Both online and IRL interaction matter: Social media can reduce FOMO and foster some sense of solidarity, but most benefit from further steps toward in-person community.
• Aesthetic vs. Authentic Alone-ness: Romanticizing loneliness can be both comforting and misleading; the difference between “curated content” and “lived experience” is crucial.
• Honesty is magnetic: Sharing true struggles allows others to relate, reduces isolation, and fosters unexpected friendships.
• Self-checks are necessary: Adapt to what works, but regularly assess whether convenience and seclusion are supporting or undermining well-being.

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Where to Find More

• Soccer Moms podcast (@BFFSoccerMoms): Improv, joy, and tales of female friendship.
• Chelsea Devantez: More celebrity memoir analysis, Patreon online community, and forthcoming guest appearances.

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Transcript

[Chelsea]

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[Holly Laurent]

Love can be hard to find.

[Chelsea]

So if you're lucky enough to find

[Holly Laurent]

that person, never let go.

[Chelsea]

A second chance at first love. Every year after now streaming only on

[Holly Laurent]

prime

[Katie Rich]

because Chalamet is now synonymous with the Knicks. Is he? Yes.

[Chelsea]

Why is Chalamet at one with the Knicks?

[Katie Rich]

So I will. I. I don't know how we feel about Chalamet, and how we feel is irrelevant. But I will say the thing about Chalamet is that he is a New York rat kid. He is. He's this little rat kid from New York and he loves the Knicks. Like, as a little kid, there was like a scavenger hunt where he, like, got to go meet the Knicks. And like, he did it and he's just this scrappy little Nick fan who now gets to like, sit courtside. And I don't mind it because he loves. It would be like me sitting for the Bears. For the Bears. You know what I mean? Like, but unfortunately, his girlfriend is also there, which is, like, not at all.

[Chelsea]

What I love talking about when we talk about Timothee, Chalamet and Kylie is that there's so many couples we know in real life where the same thing is happening where one person's really cool, but then when you see who they're dating, you're like, wait, are you not actually cool? Yeah, like, but do you know what I mean? Like, do you know real couples like that?

[Katie Rich]

But I also feel like they're one of those couples where I think you can both do better.

[Chelsea]

Right, Right.

[Katie Rich]

And I don't know what I mean. Right.

[Chelsea]

I completely agree. Okay, well, to circle this back, so the hat I'm wearing, it looks like I'm wearing a Knicks hat.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

But the logo of the Knicks actually says Lisa Nargai, which is Chalamet's character in Dune. So my husband got me this hat because I'm obsessed with Dune. The book.

[Holly Laurent]

The movies.

[Chelsea]

The movies.

[Katie Rich]

The David lynch movie.

[Chelsea]

No, absolutely not. The Denis Villeneuve ones. The brand new ones starring Zendaya and Timothee Chalamet. This makes no sense when you know anything about me, but I watch them once a month.

[Katie Rich]

It makes sense to me. Even though you're not, like, sci Fi person. It makes sense to me because there's some of the most beautiful, like, just from an aesthetic level and, like, how obsessed you are with getting a shot. Yes. And things like that.

[Chelsea]

Both movies are wide shots and extreme close ups. That's almost it. Okay, so let me bring this full circle, because this is what Yasser told me this morning. I want to know if you guys have heard this. So there's someone who, like, hosts a Knicks watching party where, like, people can just come and watch the game at a bar or a big house or something, and they shut it down to sell more Knicks tickets. And so Mayor Momdani is streaming the Knicks games on every digital billboard in New York City to be like, this game is for the people.

[Katie Rich]

So James Dolan.

[Chelsea]

Thank you. Was that the name I was looking for?

[Katie Rich]

James Dolan is the owner of msg and he's a monster. He is a monster. He's a straight up monster. He is the reason why, like, the Knicks are my. Even though I shouldn't say this, but they are my second basketball team, and I will not purchase anything because I don't want any dimes going into. Like, I would purchase something that someone else made, like a bootleg.

[Chelsea]

And first one is the Bulls.

[Katie Rich]

Yes.

[Chelsea]

Cause you're Chicago. Okay.

[Katie Rich]

Of course.

[Chelsea]

Just making sure.

[Katie Rich]

But, like, he is such a monster. And he shut down these watch parties. There's, like, a watch party in Bryant park, and he shut down the watch party that was outside msg. And it has become this thing in sports, especially in basketball and hockey, where there are these huge watch parties outside the arenas during playoff games. And it's so cool. It's so fun. And he shut it down, and Mamdani was like, nah.

[Chelsea]

Which is what is making me so excited to wear my Lisa Nalgaib hat. Because now I feel like I'm supporting that, even though I have nothing to do with.

[Katie Rich]

Well, he's kind of a Lisa Na Al Gaib, even though that's a false prophet. And he's not, I hope.

[Chelsea]

But also, I don't know. Movie 3 is not out yet, Katie. Maybe it's a real Prophet.

[Katie Rich]

We don't know, but they're books, Chelsea.

[Holly Laurent]

Oh, right.

[Chelsea]

Well, all right. So let me do this. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. And you know the intro. You know who I am. We're doing a viral article episode. I will talk about the viral article we're getting to, but I feel like, because we were just talking about sports, I need to introduce my incredible guest today. Katie Rich and Holly Laurent. They're the hosts of the comedy podcast Soccer Moms. They drop new episodes every Tuesday. We're gonna have a link to it in the show notes. I'm gonna give more about your bio in a second. But will you tell everyone about soccer moms? Because we were just talking about sports. And also, you're so funny. And also, you're perfect women. And I just. I think our audience is really gonna love your picture. Oh, babe.

[Katie Rich]

Thank you. Well, Holly and I are the very best of friends. And we don't get to see each other as much. Cause we don't live near each other. And I'm sort of isolated. Cause I'm a caregiver and stuff like that. And so it was sort of a way to get to spend a ton of time together by playing these characters, even though they're basically us, but they're us. If we had had children. And so it's this fun way to explore the. The sliding doors level of our friendship, which would be we stayed in our hometown. We live in a. You know, we live, like, right outside of Chicago in some crappy suburb. And we are these soccer moms. And so what we do is we record from our van. From my van.

[Holly Laurent]

As we tailgate.

[Katie Rich]

As we tailgate. Because the games are so boring that we wanted to do something to pass the time. Because it's also, like, sacred friendship time where we get to be together.

[Chelsea]

Okay, so this is the. This is the fictional premise of the podcast, that you're tailgating at the soccer games of your kids. Okay?

[Katie Rich]

And so what we've done is we get to have all of our wonderful friends. Chelsea, I know you'll be one of them. Come on and play characters. And they're people in the town. So, like, Bobby Moynihan is like the town fix it guy, you know, who always knows a guy. Sam Richardson is coming on, and he's gonna be like our buddy from high school. So it's stuff like that that's so fun. What has happened with this podcast, which is exciting to us, is that we also get to do real interviews with folks who aren't in character. So we just got to do an episode with Ashlyn Harris where we got to talk about her growing up and her new documentary that's out. So we've sort of found this little niche where we get to still be these characters. So we still get to do like an interview, but we also still get to do improv.

[Chelsea]

I love this so much. I texted you guys immediately and I was like, you really did. I was like, I'm. I'm so excited for your podcast. Please come on mine and talk about it. So I'm so happy you're here. You all know Katie from her work on snl. She is an Emmy nominated and Peabody award winning actor and producer. She's also written on so many other shows. Actually, we should talk about the Harley Quinn show because I know we have some hardcore Harley Quinn fans on our Patreon.

[Katie Rich]

Let's talk about it.

[Chelsea]

Katie Lake showruns that show. Can I say that?

[Holly Laurent]

Yes, you can.

[Katie Rich]

Keep watching it, babe. We gotta get season six.

[Chelsea]

We got season six. And Holly Laurent is the creator and host of the hit comedy podcast Mega and co host and producer of It's a Wonderful Lie. And both of these women were on stage at Second City in Chicago where when I was desperately also trying to be on stage. And so I've watched both of you every night. My goal in life was to become one of your understudies. And I did achieve that goal. I understudied for Holly, I understudied for Katie. Best experiences of my life. And I'm so happy you're here today. And we are discussing the viral article titled the Loneliness Influencers inside the Luxurious Tedium of quote, I have no friends TikTok by Rachel Pick to the premise of this article, which is of course on the cut, y'. All. I'm always covering articles the Cut Da

[Katie Rich]

cut and is the Cut was originally the fashion wing of New York magazine.

[Chelsea]

It definitely rebranded to be and now is like shit women care about. Yes, yes, that's what I would. And I would. And like, it's a little clickbaity, but in a way that really works for me. Like I'm always like, yeah, I want to click that badly. So this is an article about this crop of influencers who instead of showing you their outfit of the day or where they're traveling to or recipes to make, they're showing you how lonely they are. And from the article, I will read this line, depending on your perspective. The tone of these videos is tranquil and cozy or just kind of bleak. I think think a Lot of these creators in their aspiration coded solitude as loneliness influencers. And then there's a quote from Atlanta Sololife and she says, quote, I was never trying to romanticize having no friends. I was just trying to romanticize making the most of the current stage of life that you're in. She's a 24 year old influencer posting vlogs with titles like you're a single girl who lives alone and has no friends and so you go grocery shopping at 10:04pm 2 to her nearly 200,000 Instagram followers quote, I don't think anyone wakes up one day and decides they want to have no friends. It's just what happened. So we'll go into more quotes, but that is kind of the gist of like these people who are talking about their lives being lonely and showing the videos of like coming home to nothing but making their dinner, having a glass of soda and a wine glass to make it more special. Tell me overall thought on this. Had you seen this content before reading this article?

[Holly Laurent]

I think I have experienced things along those lines. The idea of the shift from influencers showing what they have that we want and now it's showing lack that we maybe relate to or that makes us feel a little less alone or something. But it's an interesting thing that instead of showing what you've got, now there's this trend of showing what's not a part of your life or whatever. And I watched that one multiple times cause I was like, this girl's doing okay. This is a condo. Look at that view in New York City.

[Chelsea]

There was something a little aspirational too. Cause it was so clean. Is she the one who like sanitizes her shoes when she comes in for the day? Yeah. And that's a type of life like very unavailable if you say, I don't know, like me have three dogs. But so there was something kind of beautiful of like. Or a broken brain or an absolutely mentally healthy brain.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Or someone else that maybe if you're in a place where you feel like you always have to clean up the house, you're the clean one. You're always clean up after others. It felt a little like, look, I don't have to do that.

[Katie Rich]

I don't have to pick up after people. Holly talks about how she pretends her husband's a bear and it makes everything better.

[Chelsea]

Wait, like a bear came through your house and ransacked it like a Kodiak bear.

[Holly Laurent]

I'm like, oh, whoa. It's like the shirt is sort of on the hanger and it's in the wrong closet. But it's pretty impressive that a fucking grizzly put a shirt in a closet.

[Katie Rich]

So, like, if you think of your spouse as a bear, you're like, wow, Actually, it's impressive that he even got the trash near the trash can.

[Chelsea]

Well, this is a great. The great mental health hack.

[Katie Rich]

And it's a reframe.

[Chelsea]

And I. I do want to tell you all, I think you should text my husband and tell him to think of me as a bear. And because I. I'm definitely the bear of our household.

[Katie Rich]

Notice I said spouse. I didn't say husband or wife or. You know, everyone has a bear.

[Chelsea]

Everyone has a bear.

[Katie Rich]

Everyone has a. Everyone has a partner where it's like, if you pretend it's an, they're doing really good. And that's Holly. That's the Holly idea. And I love it. And I saw it. Holly.

[Chelsea]

That is genius. And I am. I am the bear in my relationship, and I'm going to tell my husband that. So, yeah, there was something a little like, oh, this is kind of chic. But then another quote from a different influencer who said, quote, I was a little intimidated. I was thinking about people I know from my past seeing it, meaning videos about having no friends, people judging me, But I felt like maybe there's a lot more of us out there that are in the same stage of life. She was right. Quote, I lost a huge group of my friends in the last couple of years. A viewer wrote on one post, it feels good to not feel FOMO because I know I'm not missing out anymore. Another comment reads, quote, I spend my Friday nights like this, too. Humans have caused a lot of pain in my life and so killed me. Yeah, I think there's also something extremely relatable and content that's relatable does really well about feeling lonely as hell right now. What did you think about that part of it?

[Katie Rich]

That broke me of, like, humans have caused me so much pain that I'd rather be alone. That broke me because that's true for all of us. But humans have also caused me the most joy in my life.

[Chelsea]

Okay, this feels like a good time to take a quick break. When I was thinking about starting this podcast, I was nervous about talking and being open, but I was also really nervous because starting a podcast is starting a business. I'm not a business lady. I'm a comedy lady. Going for it was the best decision I ever made. I have grown so much, and one of those places that really helped me grow the podcast and put out our first merch was Shopify. It was so easy and so user friendly and helped us put out our very first line of glamorous trash merch. We wouldn't have been able to do that without Shopify. You can get started with your own design studio. There are hundreds of ready to use templates and they help you build a beautiful online store that really matches your brand's style. You can also get the word out through Shopify. You can easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling through Shopify. And if you get stuck, Shopify always is around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com glamorous go to shopify.com glamorous that's shopify.com glamorous I've really been in the mood for a refresh. I have been trying to change up some routines in my life and one of them I'm really proud of this. I have been eating probably 60% vegan, which I didn't think was possible because it's just so hard to do and it's going. It really made me so happy to also be using a vegan makeup company. I absolutely love that about Thrive Cosmetics. It feels like making a complete circle out of my new routine and you can change up your routine for the spring sunshine. A refresh can be as simple as amplifying your look with clean beauty from Thrive Cosmetics. Every product is 100 vegan, cruelty free and made with clean skin loving ingredients that work with your skin and not against it. I also love that every time I'm putting on some makeup and you know, trying to look hot that you're doing more than enhancing your glow. You're helping others shine because with over 150 million in product and cash donations to 600 plus giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact. So get out there and get some Empower Matte Precision Lipstick Crayon. It's so easy to put on.

[Holly Laurent]

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[Chelsea]

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[Katie Rich]

That's what broke my heart is I'm like, oh no, have they only experienced the negative side of humanity? And I, I'm, you know, me, I'm not Pollyannish in any way, shape or form, but it's like, wow, there's also a really beautiful side out there. That's what hurt the most, was that she was so hurt that she couldn't even risk maybe experiencing joy at the hands of someone else.

[Holly Laurent]

Yeah, I noticed that she was clear to point out in the article that there were also mentions of being introverted and actually those being life giving evenings, you know, and there is, I think there is also an aspirational side of that too where I was like, oh, I could see somebody who has like four kids and three dogs and is like going crazy watching this with like lust in their eyes of like, oh, that looks so good. Look at that clean apartment. Look at that. And there is something nice about making exactly what you want to eat and only cleaning up after yourself and having a quiet night by yourself where you get to watch what you want, you get to do what you want, you get to drink what you want and only cleaning up after yourself and all that. So I think it's almost like it's this, it's A spectrum of, like, there's pain on one end, but there's also, like, pleasure on one end. That this is enjoyable. It can be both. You know, it can be both a lonely thing, but also a. Like, this is what I prefer.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

But I think I take a little umbrage with the use of the term introvert here, because to me, an introvert would never record. And again, maybe this is an outdated definition, which of course it could be. I mean, I'm still, like, looking at Maslow's hierarchy of needs. But, like, an introvert wouldn't put a video of their life. Wouldn't want people watching their life.

[Holly Laurent]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Okay, so I love this conversation because I have it many times in my life, been like, I'm an introvert.

[Katie Rich]

Correct.

[Chelsea]

And everyone around me was like, no, you're not, you stupid idiot. You're the loudest.

[Katie Rich]

You're an ambivert.

[Chelsea]

You're an ambivert.

[Katie Rich]

You're an ambivert, which is you vacillate between introvert and extrovert. And that was like, never. They've added a new thing. And that was never an option when we were growing up. So that's what was always confusing to me because like you, I'm just like a ball of chaos. And I was always like, but I have to be alone a lot. And it was very confusing to me.

[Chelsea]

Yes. That's how I am of. Okay, so this is fascinating because when they said, like, I'm an introvert, I thought, yes, because I would put a video. I put content out all the fucking time. And I do need a lot of alone time or I feel unwell. I also get really addicted to alone time, especially when I'm feeling down. I do not want to connect. And I will stay that way for so long that when I am forced to connect via work or whatever, only then do I remember how much I needed people. There's so many times where I even just this past weekend I went to, like, go teach at this conference and I'd been spending a lot of time alone because I was just so down. I was like, I don't want to connect and I don't want to, like, bring my down self to others.

[Katie Rich]

Sure.

[Chelsea]

And then I was forced to go do this job and I was like, life is what is. Why did I forget? Why did I forget that even being around strangers is going to be so much more fulfilling and nurturing than staying on day 29 inside my own head? So that's where I can see this content working and I can See the endorphins they get from people responding to them, feeling any need to ever go meet in real life where you get to have all your alone time and then you get to have this idea of connection through likes and follows.

[Katie Rich]

But I think it's missing something to just say, first of all, I think it's ignorant to be like, we should do everything in person and just ignore the need to be alone or even how positive online interaction can be.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

However, you do need both. Whether that's just one, and I'm not saying you need to go to parties, but whether that's just one person that you meet for coffee or. See, we need that because our brains don't remember how. There were all those studies that once, like during lockdown, the fact that we were always on zoom, it was actually making connection worse. Yeah. Because our brain didn't understand it, what it was.

[Holly Laurent]

And I think the pandemic actually triggered or started a. A new era of my life where I know when I was younger, I know I was an extrovert. I got fueled by being at. I loved going to parties. I loved having a lot of friends. I wanted to have every single night on my calendar filled up with something. It was probably like running from something and, like over scheduling myself because I was so just like. But I would just surround myself with people and things and events and things. And I have changed so much. I don't know if it's hormonal. I don't know if the pandemic taught me how to be quiet and that it's okay. And then my hormones started shifting at the same time, and I'm going through massive life things where now I'm like, oh, I am definitely an introvert now. And I'm so confused by it. I take days now to recover from social events. I never, ever, ever had that. Or maybe it's that we're coming into our bodies more, we're dissociating less, or we're being more honest about what we want. I mean, maybe it's all these different variables, but.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, that's such a good point. Okay, I want to read this from the article. It says a survey conducted in 2025 by the American Psychological association showed that roughly half of adults in the US Reported feeling isolated, quote, often or some of the time. And a 2021 study published in Psychological Bulletin reported that the rate of LO among young adults increased every year between 1976 and 2019. And then a Reddit thread on lonely the. Just like, it's like a group you can join called Lonely says how many of you have absolutely no friends? As in, the only contacts in your phone are probably your mom and dad or like, your local pizzeria. Hundreds of people responded. And I think we've seen these headlines of, like, the loneliness epidemic. They're really focused usually on men. They're like, these men are so lonely, get them some friends or they'll shoot us all. But I do think it's not a gendered thing at all. The loneliness epidemic is very real. Obviously, through online worlds, there is a way where you do not have to force yourself into these connections the way you would have had to force yourself to go to the grocery store in years past. You can just have it brought to your door. You can just get all your connection through online. And so do you think this content of loneliness is Influencers are showing people how to be alone. It looked aspirational in the way of, like, your apartment so clean and da, da, da, da, da. But I couldn't say it looked like a 24 7. Here's how you do life. There's a little sadness in every video versus, like, I'm having a very fulfilled solo life, which I do think is possible, but I don't think these videos had that quality. But what do you guys think?

[Katie Rich]

I think they're just as sad as those videos of someone who's in Paris and has a selfie stick and is making a video of themselves at a party. To me, that's more what it is. It's like, we can't underestimate the connection that we get by putting ourselves out there in certain ways. But we can't overestimate it as well. So I didn't find it any more or less sad than a lot of the. Look what I'm doing. Content out there.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, even when the content is like, you and your friend have gone out to make content.

[Katie Rich]

Correct.

[Chelsea]

Versus you and your friend. Like, even when there's friends involved. If the night is for making content versus the night is for the night and you take some pictures during it, which I think are different experiences. I mean, listen, I used to call myself a photographer. I think that word is no longer in fashion. But I used to, and I still am this per. I have friends text me like, oh, it's a bummer you went there. Because I don't have any hot photos of myself in my special dress because I'm always there being like, get that pic.

[Katie Rich]

Get that pick.

[Chelsea]

Let's go, let's see em. Yeah. Let's see em. But I also think there's something very special to have your own life documented for yourself so that when you're in moments of feeling down, you can look back and be like, look at this beautiful time I was having. But I don't know that that's what these videos are doing. So. Okay, I want to read this. It says the concept of these loneliness influencers feels somewhat disingenuous. How introverted can a person be while also making public facing content about their private lives? The legitimacy of one loneliness influencer, Paulina See, was recently the focus of a thread on NYC influencer Snark where someone posted, Paulina C can't be real, can she? It all just looks so fake. Commenters accused C of copying other influencers of being AI and of secretly being a marketing account made to promote infrared yoga mats. And then in parentheses. C was contacted for this story, but declined to be interviewed on the phone. Issa, another creator, said she's frequently asked whether she's exaggerating about having no friends. She insisted she's not and said she doesn't make much from her videos as the TikTok Creator rewards program isn't offered in Canada. So let's talk about Paulina C. There's

[Katie Rich]

so much to unpack in that sense.

[Chelsea]

So much to unpack. Paulina C. Declining to be interviewed on the phone is like, okay, you are an AI lady.

[Katie Rich]

However, it's dead Internet theory.

[Chelsea]

The premise that you're an introvert, I guess, could make it real that you don't want to be on the phone. What do you mean, dead Internet theory?

[Katie Rich]

No, dead Internet theory that the Internet is. The Internet's not even real anymore because it's basically just populated by bots. So even the interactions that we have online aren't real.

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

So the Internet as we knew it is, like, is completely dead.

[Holly Laurent]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

Yes. We just did an episode on the feed being fake so that, like, it's like, AI content, AI commenters, things like that. I mean, her declining to be interviewed on the phone doesn't make you think that she's not fake. But then the other woman says she's not exaggerating and doesn't make money off this content despite having hundreds and thousands of followers because the TikTok Creator rewards program is offered in Canada, which is a beautiful sentence.

[Katie Rich]

She does have health care.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, she's got that. Well, so this is immediately what this made me think of, which is any time I've seen someone be vulnerable and put themselves out there as, like, I'm lonely and hurting and I need a friend. I have seen someone come be their friend. I've seen it happen in life, in spaces, and I've seen it happen online now online, I will say, in like a more curated group, like a women's book club or a Patreon or something. That's where I've seen it happen with women. I did see a man the other day go on Threads, and he was like, hey, I moved to LA to be a part of the film community. I'm really lonely. I'm having trouble making connections. I was going to go see this movie tonight if anyone wants to come. Like, I'm having a hard time in the city. Thousands of people replied and dozens of people went to that movie with him. And the one thing is that I was like, not sure as a lady you can do that.

[Katie Rich]

I'm going to be here alone.

[Chelsea]

I'm really alone and vulnerable and open to your manipulation. Yeah, it was like, so there was something where I was like, this can only happen to a man. However, it was also just so beautiful. And there were women in the comments and there was a specific community. I'm in the arts. I'm here in a city that has a lot of people in it. I think that's key. And so I have seen that happen. And then these people making these videos have a whole online friend group saying, I'm here. I'm your friend. I'll be here with you. I'm lonely, too. And so you could take that next step and make a real friend.

[Katie Rich]

Well, I think that's one thing that you're incredible with, Chelsea, which is that your heart is so correct all the time with stuff like this, because you have connected so many people through your teaching and your podcast and your comedy and everything. And you've connected them. But you've also always said, hey, let's do a meetup. Hey, let's, you know, why don't we all meet for lunch? Or why don't we do this? And they do. And I think you have done such an incredible service because you have not judged either way of connecting, but have embraced why both are so important, Katie thinks. And I think that's what scares me about, you know, sort of flaunting this notion of, I don't have friends except these friends online. And look, meeting people online again as a woman, not great, not ideal. But eventually, even if it's just cause the one person did, remember, she made a friend.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, let's read that. Another woman interviewed said she finds support Online, but added that she's hoping to build more community in her real life. Quote. The one thing that I'm really craving in person, she said. I know that a lot of us have anxiety, but it's important to put yourself out there. Last year, she took her own advice. She joined a pickleball league, where she gradually formed a bond with another player who is now one of her best friends. Quote, a year ago, I never would have imagined that I could meet someone like that, which is so nice because it is hard to make friends.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, it's terrifying.

[Chelsea]

It's really hard. And we're always talking about it. I feel like in our Patreon community, I feel like I subscribe to newsletters that are always talking about how to make friends. It is really hard. But to read that someone, like, joined a league, which I think that is key. Structured activities.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, gotcha.

[Holly Laurent]

Follow your interests. Find people with similar interests.

[Katie Rich]

There's a beginning and an end.

[Chelsea]

Yes. There's a beginning, there's an end. There's structure to the time you're spending. There's something set up to connect you to each other.

[Katie Rich]

It's not centered around alcohol.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. There's nothing I love more than a game night.

[Katie Rich]

Please.

[Chelsea]

Even with strangers. I love having a setup, a structure. But if I have to just, like, walk openly into a room and they're just like, hey, just hang for three hours, I'd rather, like, drop through on the floor.

[Holly Laurent]

Agree.

[Chelsea]

But, oh, my God, walk into a room and play games like, I'm in.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Chelsea]

So I really think, like, structured activities is, like, the number one way to make.

[Holly Laurent]

This just happened to me. And Katie's already heard this, but I put everything in storage in la and I moved. Just sort of became nomadic for a while. And the first place I moved was Rome, and I was learning the language, and I was very happy to be there, and I wanted to be there. And after four weeks or so, I started getting so deeply lonely. I couldn't believe it. And my partner would be in evening meetings because evening in Rome was daytime in the States. And so my. In the evenings, I would be, like, walking the streets by myself alone. And I was so lonely. And I was like, I have to make friends. There was this place called Retro Vino, and it was a cool coffee shop in the daytime, and then it became a wine bar at night. And I had been going there during the day, and I would. I was making friends, so to speak with the servers. And so I would have people to talk to during the day. But I Had identified this guy who was always there, and he was always on the phone, and he had this pink scarf, and he was always talking really loud, and he. Everybody knew him. And I was like, oh, he's like the mayor of Retrovina. He's the one. He's the one to become friends with. He seemed like he was kind of my age. She was always, like, gesticulating wildly and stuff. And one night, I was walking by myself past Retro Vino at night, and I was thinking, like, I should just go up to him. And right then, he was coming to the front door of Retro Vino, and I was right there, and I was like, oh, I'm gonna act like I'm going to the front door, and we're gonna walk at the same time, and then I'll. And I'll introduce myself to him, and I'm gonna make friends. And I. And so I did. And then I didn't realize till I was already in the conversation with him that I didn't know what I was gonna say or how I was gonna artic. And here's what happened. I said, excuse me, do you speak English? He was like, no problem, no problem. And. And I was like, my name's Holly. And he's like, bernardo. And I was like, hi, Bernardo. And then I was just looking at him, and he was looking at me, and I was like, I just moved to the neighborhood, and I. I just heard myself say, and I want to make friends. And I just said. Just said that to him. And he goes, no problem. Okay, come here. And he stopped, and he goes, I can tell you are so relieved that you have met me. But then he was like. He drags me inside. He goes, this is Allegra. Her name means Joy. She has two dogs. You'll like her. She's been your friend. This is Giuseppe. He owns the place. He'll give you free wine. He likes it organic, though. That's no good. You gotta come over here. And he introduced me to all these people. It was so great. I went running home that night. And when Greg got done with these meetings, I was like, you got. I made friends with this guy Bernard, and a bunch of friends you got come back. And I, like, dragged him back that very night. And we were, like, having drinks with people, talking, and I was like, I did it. High fives. And then I also noticed this really strange thing happening where I would be like, I have friends now. I can go to Retro Vino, have a glass of wine, talk to people, know people's names, and then it just happened again because then I moved to London, and now I'm in London, and I got deeply lonely here. And I just was like, okay, I got to do that Bernardo moment.

[Katie Rich]

It's because you're being honest. And that's the other thing that I found, too, is truly we're worried about looking a certain way. And so that honesty of like, hi, I just moved here and I need to make friends. I basically live with my dad, and I am a caregiver for him, and it is so lonely, and it is so isolating, and it is also something that I used to hide from people. They'd say, well, what are you doing? And I'd be like, I just kind of go back and forth between Chicago and la, just working on stuff. And then finally I reached a point where I was like, that's actually not your life, so why are you telling people that? And so now I say, and why

[Chelsea]

do you think you were?

[Katie Rich]

I think a lot of it is because I think when you're a woman in the entertainment industry, you never want people to go, she can't do anything. You know, it's like, I'm having a baby, but don't tell anyone. You know, I'll just have it over to the side, and then I can still do work, you know? And I think, too, I wasn't ready to admit that to myself, that that's really what my life was. But once I did, once I started admitting it, boy, did I start to find people, and, boy, did I start to get less lonely, because there is not one person on planet Earth who doesn't know someone who's a caregiver or was a caregiver. And suddenly everything changed, and I was making connections in a way that I wasn't when I was trying to hide the thing that I felt the most vulnerable about.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think that is theme of the podcast. It's the theme. I just want to underline what you both said, the Bernardo story and the caregiver story, which both of them are being really honest about where you're at in life and sharing it to an audience, whether it's an audience of one, an audience online, or the people you run into, because that's the same thing I experienced my entire life until this podcast, which was like, I'm not gonna tell anyone these horrible, icky things about me that I'm so fucking embarrassed about.

[Katie Rich]

How do you start your book?

[Chelsea]

Oh, shit, I forgot about that.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, you literally start your book like that.

[Chelsea]

Sometimes I feel like, oh, my God. I'm done. I did it. Like, I put everything horrible that I went through in my book, and I'm done. And now I can be myself and have friends. Cause I found so many people online and in real life and in my friends I already had who just didn't know that about me. And then other times, I have to relearn the lesson constantly. It is still hard in some way. Not as hard, but it's a little bit hard to say, well, you don't

[Katie Rich]

want a trauma dump.

[Chelsea]

No, no. But also, like, I am donor conceived. That affects every second of my life. But had I not pushed past the societal and familial obligations to keep it a secret, I never would have met all my other adult donor conceived friends who make me feel like the most normal person in the world after a lifetime of feeling horrible. And I just think it's just so important to say where you are. And I also want to say it's the scariest, hardest thing I definitely ever had in my life.

[Katie Rich]

But you can't say it until you're ready to say it. Yeah, that's the other thing.

[Chelsea]

But I think you can practice getting there, which I didn't know.

[Katie Rich]

You can say it to people who. There's no risk.

[Chelsea]

No risk. Yeah. Say to a therapist. Say it to a cat.

[Katie Rich]

Yes, neighborhood cat.

[Chelsea]

Start telling that cat.

[Katie Rich]

Start feeding the crows, bitch. I just want tuna. A crow would help you. A crow would be like, I got you. They'd bring you a trinket and say,

[Chelsea]

you're good, you're good, you're good. So I'll just read this last part of the article. They're saying, this is another one of the influencers. Her name's Issa. She says, we're making the choice to be alone but not feel lonely. Social media in the world never really used to make you feel like that was normal. And so there's something to say of, like, they want to be alone. They do not want to engage, but they don't want to feel lonely. And this is the way I think

[Katie Rich]

it's John Mulaney who has that joke of, like, wow, thanks for being here when it's so much easier to just do nothing.

[Holly Laurent]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

You know, and I think. I think there's that, too. Like, we've been catered to. You know how, like, grubhub and Uber eats. They were all going to go out of business, and then the pandemic happened, and then people were like, oh, I guess I could just get things delivered. And then, because we're Adaptable to a fault. Now it's like, well, now this is what we do. And I think that's what happened too, where it was like, I guess we could just rent the movie at home or. You know, I don't think we can underestimate how much being literally locked down in our homes taught us how to be locked down in our homes.

[Chelsea]

Absolutely right. Cause I've been really working on undoing my pandemic behavior. Not because I'm like. It's. I'm like, this is better. Because truly my mental health was suffering. So I'm just like. I'm actively being like, I have to undo some of this suffering. We've been working, and I'm like, no more delivery. And, like, if you really wanna get food from a restaurant, you gotta pick it up, go get it. Yeah. Only because it's degrading us as humans in a way that's almost imperceptible until you intervene.

[Katie Rich]

I think it is important to say it's wonderful that we do have these services because there are people who. It has made their lives so much better.

[Holly Laurent]

Definitely.

[Katie Rich]

I can even say, even because it's hard for me to. My dad can't really be alone. They're lifesavers. There's people who it's really hard to just get out and go to.

[Chelsea]

So I get that you're taking care of family. You don't have the to do that, but I think you're so right. It's like, these services have really made life better for so many people and reasons. I just think the why. Because there are certain things I started doing because it was easier, but it did make my life worse.

[Katie Rich]

And that's the thing. We're just such an excruciatingly adaptive species, which is why we're still here. Even though we're pathetic when it comes to our survival skills. But we do have to keep checking in and being like, is this thing that I adapted to do, Is this still helping me?

[Chelsea]

Yeah.

[Katie Rich]

And I always think of that thing that Kurt Vonnegut said where every time he had to mail a letter, he would go to the store and buy an envelope. And his wife was like, you're a very wealthy man. You could just purchase 1,000 envelopes and never have to do that. And he's like, right. But when I leave my house to go get the envelope, I see a dog that I pet and I see this, and I get to interact. And he's like, so it's really not even me going to buy the envelope. It's what happens to and from. And I think about that all the time.

[Chelsea]

Okay, you know what, let's do the click lit quiz because that's where some good stuff comes out as well. So three questions. We're gonna go through all of them. First was the article. Well written. What do you think, Holly?

[Holly Laurent]

Yeah, I think it walked us through. It left me with a lot of questions. When she said, I'm lonely online. And they all said, but where are your friends? It really made me think about like parasocial relationships and where is that going and what does it mean? I thought it was. Yeah, it was thought provoking.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Okay, I like that. What about you, Katie?

[Katie Rich]

I thought it was abrupt. It did end abruptly, which is fine. I know things have to be short now, but it opened all these doors and these ideas and I had a lot of follow up questions.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, yeah, I definitely like needed this to follow it. There was a sentence in there about how they would pour a diet soda in a wine glass to make it feel a little more special. But that read like poetry to me because the amount of times I've done that with an iced coffee in the morning, mostly cause I hadn't washed the dish dishes because I'm the bear in any situation.

[Katie Rich]

However, the fact that you put it in a glass and you're a pretty

[Holly Laurent]

hot grizzly bear, babe, you're a very beautiful bear.

[Chelsea]

Thank you. I'm really, I'm really working that bear bod. And. Yeah, but then later she was like, she had this sentence about like, and sometimes, you know, like living your best life because you've decanted a soda. And I was like, that. That was very funny. And so I'm also giving this a yes. Okay, second question. Did reading this article make you want to scream about it to someone?

[Holly Laurent]

Yeah, I couldn't wait to get on here and be like, I gotta hear what my bitches are about to say. Because I got thought.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, I was really excited to talk about this. And also just the idea that it's become an aesthetic which can be very dangerous. It's like the quiet luxury aesthetic. Like when anything becomes trad wife. Trad wife. Minimalist aesthetic. Listen, I'm over here living that maximalist aesthetic. So I. But I think when anything becomes a trend like that, especially online, it gets so curated that when you're taking in that content, you're actually not seeing real life anymore. Especially with weddings. I went into that hell for a long time where each video is so curated it's not what it's actually gonna look like or feel like to be at a wedding. So I think that's dangerous. Okay, final question. Did the article deepen your thinking on the subject?

[Katie Rich]

It did for me, because I think my initial reaction to the concept of the article was very judgmental and very like, oh, no. And then as I read it, I was like, don't say that. It opened up the option of, you know, people can choose to live a certain way, and just because you don't choose that doesn't make it wrong.

[Chelsea]

Yeah. Yeah, I like that. What about you?

[Holly Laurent]

Yeah, because I also. It's something I hadn't really thought about. And Katie and I always talk about how, like. Like, it's my female friendships that have saved and sustained me through my life, through my darkest hours, through. And how much I rely on even the very thought of my friends. When I'm, like, spiraling into a bad place. A lot of times I will be like, at least I know that. Like, I will text about this and the response will be there. The connection is already there. It's strong, you know, Like, I rely on that so deeply, psychologically.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've had really interesting discussions on this podcast from people who are like, it is not easy to make friends. Like, sometimes you just are a person with no friends. And I think, well, one, I moved around a shit ton. And then two, I went into comedy where you're. The whole point of the structured activity is to connect with someone and do a scene over and over again and then go to a bar and get wasted.

[Holly Laurent]

Instant community.

[Katie Rich]

And that's stand up.

[Chelsea]

And that's also.

[Katie Rich]

Yeah, that's not stand up.

[Chelsea]

It wasn't stand up. Yeah. And so. But I do think the moving around a lot, especially, it's a real skill set, and it's a really, really hard one. Like, you get rejected a lot, and so then you become less afraid of it because you've done it. Whereas if you have not built that, it's really painful. And so it really made me think about, yeah. The people who had different types of pandemics, the different types of life experiences, and if friends truly feel impossible. And I think I am gonna plug this. But, like, on our Patreon, I have watched. We have this meetup groups channel. I have watched people find, like, the only other person in their city or, like, there's now a book club in Arizona. There's a book club in San Diego. There's a book club in Seattle. And whether you go to this podcast, Patreon or not, it's there online, while it has allowed us to be really alone. There are probably a thousand Reddit Patreons substack communities that if you went to, they're doing structured meetups where you can go and participate, and by finding the thing that you like, you'll be there with other people who also like that same thing, which makes the start of friendship easier. So as much as this made me think, like, oh, this content is making us more lonely, I was also, like, I've been witnessing. It can lead to real connection if you want it to. And if you're really safe, oh, please

[Katie Rich]

be safe, please be safe, please be

[Holly Laurent]

safe, please be safe out there.

[Katie Rich]

That's why it's so helpful to be honest about where you are in life with people you trust.

[Chelsea]

Yeah, it's like, be, be safe, be safe. But friendship is. It is available. It's available if you really want it and you're willing to go through the pain that it takes to find a connection.

[Katie Rich]

And it's worth it.

[Holly Laurent]

We were really lucky coming up through the improv scene because we just. We got at a really young, impressionable age, like that early adulthood, like, vulnerable time. It just was instant community. And you're right, like, the essence of improv is connecting. And so we were in this, the business of connection and connecting with people.

[Chelsea]

It was competitive. There's people I could see from that time in my life who I automatically believe hate me. But I just want to say that because that comes with community, Right?

[Katie Rich]

Yeah.

[Holly Laurent]

Fallout.

[Chelsea]

There was gossip. There was not being invited to things. There's not making the certain team. There's making it and people thinking, you don't deserve it, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And yet I look back and, like, that was my college. That was my community. Those are the best friends I have today. And so know it's not all, like, roses and peachy, but I think we're all really grateful for it.

[Holly Laurent]

Totally. When Katie and I first met, we didn't know, like, how we felt about each other. And we were kind of, like, feeling each other out for a while and had some, like, stumbles and some, like, ups and downs. And then through that, by being like, are we friends? Are we not friends? What is. What does this really look like? What. What makes it real for us? And we were thrust together because we were the only females in the main stage cast at Second City. But through that experience, we could only be ourselves with each other.

[Katie Rich]

We went through, like, 20 years of what a friendship goes through in, like, a year and a half.

[Holly Laurent]

So we went from like acquaintances who weren't sure about each other to family, where it's like, now we can still fight, but we're family, you know?

[Katie Rich]

Ah.

[Chelsea]

Okay. This is the perfect, perfect way for me to tell you, to tell everyone, where can they find this friendship weekly on this podcast that truly, every time I speak to both of you together and separately, I feel so elevated. And it's just such a gift that you both are on mic every week. So please tell everyone where to find you and listen to you and all of it.

[Holly Laurent]

Soccer Moms comes out every Tuesday, and we do say that our dream for it is that people feel they can come warm themselves by the fire of our friendship, and we want it to come through and for you to feel a little less lonely. And we also don't do any, like, politics. We say, in the world of soccer moms, Madonna exists, but Trump doesn't. Like, so there's pop culture, but there's no put it in the world.

[Katie Rich]

Right?

[Holly Laurent]

And so really try to keep it light and to keep it moving and to bring joy and believe that laughter is the best medicine and stuff. So, yeah, we're @BFFSoccerMoms on Instagram. We'll have a YouTube channel soon, but you can follow us at BFF Soccer Moms. And just wherever you listen to podcasts, check out any episode of Soccer Moms. They're all really, really fun. And Chelsea will reach out to your people and get you on soon, babe.

[Katie Rich]

Can't wait.

[Chelsea]

I'll be there. I also want to say, it is so special about you keeping politics out of this because you two, as humans, are very political, progressive humans, constantly doing the right thing in the world. Therefore, listening to you, I know I'm not just listening to people who don't give a fuck.

[Holly Laurent]

Right?

[Chelsea]

Like, if you really wanna check out and have a nice time, you can do it with people who still have your back when they're not raised straight.

[Katie Rich]

Right. I mean, it's also not. It's not like, a vapid show. It's just.

[Chelsea]

No, but I'm saying I think that stuff can really be hurtful to hear. And so I gravitate towards really lighthearted stuff. But then sometimes I find out they're like, because I could give a fuck about the world. I'm like, oh, now I gotta stop

[Katie Rich]

listening to this Gwyneth Paltrow thing of,

[Chelsea]

like, I don't know, my husband's progressive and I'm a monster. Oh, what a beautiful way to end this podcast. We're gonna put the link in the show notes. Thank you both so much. Adore you so, so deeply. And I'll be there with talking to the soccer moms as soon as. A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Dominique Banas. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and Quince. We will link those incredible brands in the show notes. So go check them out. Everything is always linked in the show notes on Apple. There's also transcripts and if you ever have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.

[Holly Laurent]

Sam.