Christina Applegate’s Memoir You With The Sad Eyes

Summary

Podcast Summary: Glamorous Trash — Christina Applegate’s Memoir "You With The Sad Eyes"

Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Jo Feldman
Date: April 7, 2026
Episode Theme:
A deep dive into Christina Applegate’s newly released memoir, "You With The Sad Eyes." Chelsea and Jo book club this heartfelt, brutally honest reflection on Applegate’s harrowing childhood, lifelong stardom, battles with illness, and journey through trauma, family, fame, and self-acceptance. Trigger warnings for domestic violence, sexual violence, child abuse, and mentions of suicide.

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Overview

This episode centers on Christina Applegate’s memoir, which chronicles her challenging upbringing, rise to stardom, the impact of trauma on her life and health, her difficult relationship with her parents, her battles with body image, and her recent years living with MS (Multiple Sclerosis). The hosts unpack these stories with vulnerability and humor, reflecting on the book’s honesty and emotional weight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. General Impressions and Tone of the Memoir

• Jo: Felt an overwhelming love and compassion for Applegate after reading, deeply moved by her resilience and honesty.
  • “I just want to hug her. And also just blown away by the things she's been through and, like, the way she's decided to embrace the hard things.” [03:00]
• Chelsea: Notes the memoir’s sadness, matching its title, and remarks on its emotional intensity and heaviness.

2. Early Life and Family Trauma

• Laurel Canyon Childhood:
  • Applegate’s father left when she was a baby in a dramatic, almost “fairy tale” scenario—meeting a new woman through astrology, never returning.
    • Quote: “You really don't want the mistress to have a fairy tale love story.” [05:24]
  • Raised by a mother struggling with her own addictions and a violently abusive stepfather (Joe Lala), Applegate faced neglect, being left in the care of “random ladies” in Laurel Canyon, and exposure to drugs.
• Early Trauma:
  • Endured sexual abuse at age five from a female caregiver.
    • “She carries this, like, horrific shame for the rest of her life. She was five years old.” [07:47]
• Discussion on the mythos of Laurel Canyon highlighting how its “romantic” reputation masks the real dangers and neglect faced by children there.

3. Connection Between Trauma and Chronic Illness

• Applegate confronts how her abusive upbringing may relate to her MS diagnosis, referencing a 2022 study linking childhood abuse to increased risk of MS.
  • Quote: “… there was a 93% risk of an MS diagnosis if a child had been exposed to all three [abuse types]. And it’s here your devastated narrator slowly raises her hand to sadly admit to all three and then some.” [11:57]

4. The Realities of Child Stardom

• Applegate began earning money for her family at age seven, quickly eclipsing her mother’s career.
  • “Christina is taking care of the family at 7 years old.” [16:40]
• Reflections on her mother’s struggles to parent amidst addiction and trauma, but also Applegate’s choice to remain close and forgiving toward both parents.
  • Jo: “At every turn [she] chose to keep the people with her and forgive them…” [18:07]
  • Chelsea: Notes how Applegate is “so hard on herself and so easy on everybody else.” [21:19]
• The problematic nature of showbiz work culture for minors and the emotional toll of early fame.

5. Enduring Shame and Body Image Struggles

• Battle with eating disorders, never seeing herself as others do, and the destructive legacy of childhood and Hollywood beauty standards.
  • Quote: “I began a lifelong struggle with body image and weight… I never saw the skinny girl everyone else did.” [23:23]
• Honest confession that some days, struggling with weight bothers her more than her MS.
  • “She was like, I told you I'd be honest. Like, I have body image issues more than I have MS issues some days.” [23:41]
• Chelsea and Jo reflect on how these obsessions plague women their whole lives.

6. Showbiz Anecdotes: Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp & Hollywood in the '80s/'90s

• Brad Pitt:
  • Applegate left Pitt at the 1989 MTV Video Music Awards for Sebastian Bach, resulting in a years-long rift.
    • “Brad left to sullenly drive my mom and Lori home…” [31:00]
• Hollywood Circles:
  • The memoir is filled with stories of young stars—overlapping friend groups and romantic entanglements (Johnny Depp, Anthony Kiedis, etc.), capturing the chaotic LA teen scene.
• The Viper Room & The Pussycat Dolls:
  • Applegate was a founding member of the original burlesque Pussycat Dolls troupe at the Viper Room (pre-pop stardom).
    • Confirmation and clarification are provided thanks to Chelsea’s outside research. [36:54]

7. Relationship Violence and Domestic Abuse

• Recounts an abusive romantic partnership in her twenties—emotional, physical, and financial abuse, with the trauma rendered in a non-linear, immersive style.
  • Chelsea: “The takeaway I had is, yes, this is normally what it looks like… 30 bad things happened… and I don’t know how I finally got free, but finally I did.” [41:03]
• The complexity and cyclicality of abuse, with excerpts from her journals illustrating the psychological traps involved.

8. Career Misses, Regrets, and Misgivings

• Turned down "Legally Blonde," seeking to escape her “ditzy blonde” typecasting.
  • “I could have had Reese Witherspoon money.” [38:48]
• Career anecdotes: lowballed for “Anchorman,” Will Ferrell and Adam McKay personally made up her salary; tension with Vince Vaughn during auditions; life-changing but physically costly turn in “Sweet Charity” on Broadway, where she danced on a broken foot to save the show.
• Ben Brantley’s cruel Broadway review, which, like much negative feedback, Applegate internalized deeply.

9. Illness, Motherhood, and Rewriting the Narrative

• Discussion of Applegate’s BRCA gene diagnosis, breast cancer, and double mastectomy, and her public persona vs. private pain.
  • “Here's how I feel about the interview now. It was bullshit… I was acting like Little Miss Warrior. But that's not how I really felt.” [52:26]
• Emotional struggle with not being able to breastfeed or do “normal” things after surgery, the tension between societal expectations and physical limitations.
• Meeting and marrying her husband Martyn, a friendship-turned-romance that quietly spanned years; criticism of memoir structure for burying this love story until the end.

10. Later Life, Legacy, and Finding Identity

• Parenthood late in life, complicated by MS, but marked by deep love for her daughter Sadie.
  • “Sometimes my daughter just reaches over and takes my hand when we're sitting on the bed watching TV. And then if I'm lucky, she'll let her eyelids droop. In fact, she's here right now. I'm typing with one hand. My other hand is tight in hers as she sleeps. I am Sadie's mother. I am Kiki.” [63:26]
• She takes the Hawaiian name “Kiki” as an alter ego and symbol of healing and freedom.
• The book closes with honest assessment: can’t walk to her daughter, but can hold her hand.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “At every turn [she] chose to keep the people with her and forgive them and see them as whole people with real problems and not punish them for it. That’s a very grown up thing.” – Jo [18:07]
• “She’s so hard on herself and so easy on everybody else.” – Chelsea [21:19]
• “This business is brutal. I said, why did men direct ‘Bad Moms’?” – Chelsea [58:11]
• On her Oprah interview (post-mastectomy): “I had lied, thinking I was being uplifting. I was acting like Little Miss Warrior. But that's not how I really felt… I’m sure I was just making women who had similar diagnoses, watching me on Oprah, feel even more devastated…” – Applegate via Chelsea [52:26]
• “She believes all her bad press. It's not true, Christina!” – Jo [51:17]
• “Kiki is who I really am. She's fierce and free, and she doesn't have MS or trauma or low self-esteem…” – Applegate via Chelsea [62:01]

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• 03:00 — Jo and Chelsea on overall impressions; visible love and heartbreak for Applegate.
• 04:03–08:26 — Excerpts of traumatic family history; abandonment, abuse, and Laurel Canyon childhood.
• 11:57 — The MS–childhood trauma study and Applegate’s personal reflection.
• 16:40–18:07 — Becoming a child breadwinner; complicated family loyalty and forgiveness.
• 23:23–25:52 — Applegate’s lifelong struggle with eating disorders and body image.
• 31:00 — The infamous Brad Pitt VMA date story.
• 36:54–38:09 — The mystery of the Pussycat Dolls history and Johnny Depp’s recurring presence in her life.
• 41:03–42:38 — The harrowing relationship abuse narrative and its lasting aftermath.
• 46:55–47:27 — “Anchorman” pay gap story; Will Ferrell and Adam McKay’s support.
• 49:39–50:23 — “Sweet Charity” Broadway saga; pushing through injury, creative vindication, and cost.
• 52:26 — Reckoning with public “warrior” personas and private struggle (Oprah show backlash).
• 53:38–54:59 — Honest, moving meditations on motherhood post-cancer.
• 62:01–63:26 — Finding solace in her Hawaiian identity and love for her daughter.
• 65:41–67:19 — Moving closer to acceptance, letting go of toxic self-criticism, and embracing vulnerability and forgiveness.

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Summary and Takeaways

• The memoir is exceptionally vulnerable, often difficult to read, but powerfully moving.
• Applegate’s tendency to forgive those who’ve harmed her—even as she harshly self-criticizes—becomes a central theme.
• The book is both a cautionary and redemptive tale about surviving trauma, the difficulties of growing up in and surviving the Hollywood ecosystem, and the unending battles women face with body image and external judgment.
• Chelsea and Jo agree that while the memoir is not “entertaining” in a traditional, lighthearted way, it is deeply engrossing and humanizing.
• There’s implicit encouragement in the memoir—and the hosts’ discussion—for readers to let go of internalized shame, stand up for one’s accomplishments, and pursue healing, even if only incrementally.
• The pod closes celebrating Applegate’s legacy: her honesty, humor, and the emotional inheritance she offers her daughter and readers.

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Final Thoughts

• Chelsea:
  “I’m not going to let my version of ‘you’re doing it again, you’re being weird’ stick with me… she doesn’t need to hold onto stuff like that. And she should just feel so much love and pride and accomplishment.” [67:19]
• Jo:
  “I feel nourished…The redemption arc of her relationship with her father made me realize forgiveness is such a profound act… It’s hard to do. And she does it with ease throughout her life…” [66:04–67:19]

Favorite Photos in the Memoir (per hosts):

• Jo: Applegate’s star on the Walk of Fame (ending full-circle from her childhood).
• Chelsea: Young punk-era Applegate & a pic with Johnny Depp at age 16.

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For Further Reflection

• This memoir is essential for anyone interested in women’s experiences in Hollywood, childhood trauma, complicated families, chronic illness, and radical honesty.
• Listeners are encouraged to read the memoir for its full impact, especially to see the included journal excerpts and photos.

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Follow the Glamorous Trash podcast and catch Jo Feldman’s appearances every month. For further discussion, visit the Patreon, and see the show notes for related resources.

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Transcript

[A]

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Visit taxact.comadminknight for details. This episode is brought to you by Fandango. People say fans are too distracted these days, but the truth is, when a

[B]

great movie hits the screen, you show up.

[A]

You stay glued, invested, part of the story. And without fans like you, there'd be

[B]

no cinema magic, no shared moments.

[A]

So head to fandango.com to get tickets, stream or rent or buy top movies and series. Fandango loves fans. Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs, and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea Devontes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff, too. And today we are book clubbing Christina Applegate's memoir titled you with the sad Eyes. This just came out. It's a brand new memoir and you know Christina from so many iconic roles, like Kelly on Married With Children from the amazing TV show Dead to Me. She's also been in so many other things, like Anchorman, don't Tell mom, the babysitter's dead, the sweetest thing, so many more. She's just. She's an icon. And as the title of this memoir suggests, there are some deeply sad topics coming up today. So this is your trigger warning for domestic violence, some sexual violence, child abuse, and talk of suicide. So please take care when listening. We're going to get into a lot of stuff today. Anyone who truly knows me knows I am not Christina Applegate. I was never, ever that person. So whenever I hear Christina Applegate, I get spine tingles. And it's not in a good way. Those two words together do not denote the secret place, the center of my soul, the real me. Our guest today is Jo Feldman. You know her. You love her. I love her. I've decided Joe is coming on the podcast every single month. And here she is again. Hello.

[B]

You can't get rid of me.

[A]

And I never want to. Okay, Jo, let's give one of your credits, which is that you did the Carney Wilson memoir on this podcast, which I think is an underrated episode.

[B]

Thank you. I Think so too.

[A]

Yeah. Joe is also a TV writer, and we have known each other since we were 22 years old.

[B]

Oh, boy. Oh, did you get sad?

[A]

I got some memories. So we read Christina Applegate's memoir, Joe, overall thoughts on the book before we dive in and go piece by piece.

[B]

Yeah, I just, like, finished it and felt just. I feel so much love for this woman. I just want to hug her. And also just blown away by the things she's been through and, like, the way she's decided to embrace the hard things.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Loved her.

[A]

I agree with that. You just love her so much. She's been through so much. This is gonna be an intense wr. And also, yeah, just like the title of the memoir, it made me very sad.

[B]

This was one of my first times listening to a memoir. She reads it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Thank God she reads it because she reads it so beautifully. She gets choked up at times while she's reading it, but I'm, like, listening to it in the gym bathroom, and I'm like, you know, getting ready for work and drying myself off, where she says, the most horrific form of child abuse you've ever heard of. And I was like, stop dead in my tracks and had to compose myself.

[A]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

It is a tough. Listen this.

[A]

Yeah, it's a tough read. Yeah. Okay, well, let's dive in. I want to start by reading from page 25.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And she grows up in Laurel Canyon. She truly is a child of Los Angeles. And her dad leaves her mom when she's still very young. And the story is insane, she said. When my mother called my father to say she was heading home from that first trip to the east coast, his two word reply devastated her and set in motion a chain of terrible events for me and my mom, events whose ripples still move throughout both of our lives. We're on our way home, mom said so soon. Dad said he really didn't need to say anything else. And then down below, with those two words, so soon, dad headed away from Nancy pretty, her mom away from his newborn, to make a new life in Big Sur on the Pacific coast, six hours north of Laurel Canyon. When we arrived home, he was gone. My father never came back. For us, it was a disaster. For him, it would prove to be a kismet move. On the first day he got to Big Sur, a woman staying at the same rooming house told him that she could feel his presence in the building. Family lore goes that she wandered downstairs and said to Bob Applegate, are you a Scorpio? Yes, I Am, he said. And that was all it took. Something ignited and they were together from that moment on. Early in 1972, right up until Tuesday, March 18, 2025, when my father died. You really don't want the mistress to have a fairy tale love story.

[B]

It's like I. We always say, like, it has to be that, like, if it, like, for,

[A]

like, if you're gonna leave your newborn and your wife, it better be. Yeah. And I guess it wasn't a mistress. He, he, he was just leaving no matter what. And the day he left, a woman saying, I could feel your presence. Are you a Scorpio? This man, like, this man married a tarot reading, which can feel really good. Your first tarot reading can feel nice.

[B]

This feels like something from maybe a Chelsea Devonte memoir of one of the many wonderful women that raised you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cuz like, that wouldn't work on anyone I grew up with.

[A]

No. But it sure worked on Bob Applegate.

[B]

He's also the implication that when he was like, so soon, and it wasn't for a woman, it was like when she said, we're coming back, and he said, so soon. It was like, he really just, he

[A]

was like, I gotta get to the mountains.

[B]

It's not feeling good for me here.

[A]

Yeah. And it's brutal for her because she's abandoned by her dad. They have some back and forth, but Christina has a very, very dark childhood. Her mom gets with her a man who she calls her stepdad, Joe Lala. And she says, I can talk about him now because he' dead of lung cancer. And in the book she says, thank God, I hope it was a painful death. This is how bad this man is. And so Jo Lala is extremely abusive to her mom, physically, emotionally. And she is growing up in Laurel Canyon with this really volatile parent in her life. And then also her mom is leaving her alone a lot to go work or do things. And she's being cared for by like random ladies in Laurel Canyon. Yeah. And very early in the book, it's like page 36, she is sexually abused by. Sounds like a young woman who was taking care of her. Who. I didn't like the language she used in the book because she used a very like, sexual term that I think implies consent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of like going down on a woman, which is like, not what that is when you're forcing a child to do it too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so she carries this, like, horrific shame for the rest of her life. She was five years old.

[B]

Yeah. That is like the most horrible thing in the world. And all I kept picturing during the descriptions of, like, Laurel Canyon time is, like, if you've been to Los Angeles, you've probably driven up Laurel Canyon just to, like, see the Laurel Canyon Country Mart. You've eaten at Pache. You read, like, all about how, like, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young and all these, like, really cool singer songwriters got their start in this area and the lawlessness of it. You're like, there's something romantic about it. And then you, like, you zoom out and you're like, oh, there were actual kids there. And kids need so much care and protection, and they can't really function that well with, like, random people watching them, unvetted. Yeah.

[A]

Just running around. There's drugs everywhere.

[B]

In all fairness, anyone who grew up in Laurel Canyon has some sort of, like, up, like, they're running up and down the hills. There are huge historic murders happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

During their childhood.

[A]

During Christina's childhood, for sure. And Laurel Canyon, if you've never been to Los Angeles, it is insanely windy. It is this path you drive, like, at night. It's where so many cars happen. So many people are driving back from Hollywood, like, with martinis in their system. And it is just this very dangerous path. But in the 70s, yeah, it has this magical sense to it of, like, you were up in the canyon with, like, nature and the best parts of la, and yet she's going through this really horrific childhood. Now, throughout the book, a huge part of Christina's life and how this book is written, and I think why it was written is that she was diagnosed with Ms. And she's writing this book from her bed that she can sometimes barely leave. And I think that is obviously what makes a lot of this so painful to read. And also, that's like the limb lens. She's looking at everything through that. She can, like, barely go see her kids. Sometimes as she's trying to write this book and she wrote this, she said, in looking over my life, I'm reminded of a recent study suggesting a link between childhood trauma and an increased chance of developing Ms. The 2022 study of 80, 000 Norwegian women published in the Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery and Psychiatry, noted three kinds of abuse of children that were possible factors in subsequent diagnosis of the disease. Sexual, emotional, and physical. Close to 20% of the women admitted to suffering one such form of abuse as a child, which is in and of itself a terrible number. But staggeringly, there was a 93% risk of an Ms. Diagnosis if a child had been exposed to all three. And it's here. Your devastated narrator slowly raises her hand to sadly admit to all three and then some. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. I've been doing a little spring reset with my closet lately. Really just trying to pare down and get rid of stuff. And as I was getting rid of things, I realized the pieces I was for sure keeping, the ones at the top of my wardrobe, were from quints. They are well made, versatile, easy to reach for every day. That's why I keep coming back to quints. They have all kinds of inclusive sizes. The fabrics feel elevated, the fits are thoughtful, and the pricing makes sense. Scents and doesn't make you sweat. Quince makes products using premium materials like 100% European linen. They have styles starting around $50. They have things that are lightweight, breathable, effortless. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. The Quince Ponte stretch pants have become my go to. They don't wrinkle, they have extra long or extra short. And they're very stretchy, which I love. Listen, are we doing non stretch pants after 2020? It's been six years and I'm still not. Refresh your spring wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com glamorous for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. Go to q U-I-N c-e.com glamorous for free shipping and 360 five day returns. Quince.com glamorous so I have a big event coming up and in the Patreon, someone had posted about the Jesy Nelson documentary, which is great. It's on Amazon. She is one of the pop stars in Little Mix, if you know that group. Anyways, a long way to say. There was a woman being interviewed who had a great eye makeup and I said, that's the eye makeup I want to do for my event. And I said, oh, I need to get a highlighter for above the eye to pull this off. And then I realized I already have a perfect one. It's Thrive Cosmetics Beauty Eye Brightener. I have the color Champon Champagne. It's fantastic. This product I love because I love makeup, but one of the things I'm worst at is eye makeup because it takes such precision. And this product kind of has a big thick, not like a crayon, but it's like a big round stick. And so it's easy to Cover a lot of the eye. So I absolutely love Thrive Cosmetics. Brilliant eye brightener. Cannot recommend it more. And with over 150 million in product and cash donations to 600 plus giving partners, your purchase directly fuels real impact. Every purchase goes to a cause that they support, including domestic violence, which is a topic that is extremely close to my heart in my life. And that's beauty with purpose. Amplify your spring look with Thrive cosmetics. Go to thrivecosmetics.com glamorous for an exclusive offer of 20% off your first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C A U S E M E t I c s.com glamorous okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation.

[B]

I mean, every story she tells, I thought of that study. Every single story. I was like, there, there, there, there, there.

[A]

And I know we have some doctor and scientist cookies in the Patreon, and I just. I really need. Yeah, I really need them to weigh in. I did write about this in my memoir, but I saw one of our favorite kinds of doctors, a chiropractor, when. When I had a tumor on my right ovary. And he had this giant book that I've never been able to find, but it was like the emotional wound that led to each specific disease.

[B]

I do think my mom has this book.

[A]

I really need your mom to find it. Okay. And tell me the title.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Charlie.

[B]

Be like, how to unfat your daughter. How to unfat your daughter and other foibles that may have another medical foibles.

[A]

But yeah, okay. Well, my chiropractor opened that book and he was like, what ovary is the growth on? And I was like, the right ovary. And he goes into this book and he's like, abandoned by your father. And I was like, oh, so I just really need more science and correlation between a study like this and I just need more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So if you're in the Patreon, please come help us. And please give us the title of that book. So when she's 7 years old.

[B]

I'm sorry. I just went to a chiropractor last week who is like, hands on my neck. So close to murdering me, who was

[A]

like, I think the war in Iran

[B]

is a good thing.

[A]

Crack.

[B]

And I was like, I need to get out of here.

[A]

What?

[B]

You know, chiropractors be saying shit while they have your life in their hands.

[A]

Also, like, what's tough about chiropractors is that the really good ones can be life saving. But it's a type of practice that just total psychopaths Are like, I love

[B]

to be a chiropractor.

[A]

Like, some of the worst people I know are chiropractors. And some of the best people I know. It's like improv. It only attracts the best and the worst. No one in the middle.

[B]

The hands that. The hands that can touch it. The. The. It's just too wide. I immediately called one of my best friends who's an acupuncturist, and I was like, now talk me through your gut. Like, what's your gut say about chiropractors? And she was like, I just think there's so many great modalities for fixing a body, and that one is just too quick.

[A]

It's just too fast. I know I will never see a chiropractor again. I want to. I want to plug something here. You know what I've been doing? It's called stretch therapy.

[B]

Go on.

[A]

It's a lot like. Actually, you know what? I can't explain this. What am I doing?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

However, it's movements that are organic to the body, but kind of doing the same thing I felt from a chiropractor. Like, realigning. But it's not like, crack, rip.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Here's my weird politics.

[B]

Geopolitics. Well, I'm kind of spitting on you. See you again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Four days. You have to come back in four days. Like, four days.

[A]

I'm out. Anyways, we've gotten a little off track. Here we go. No, sorry, we're keeping this tangent in now. Christina becomes a child star. Like, I wouldn't say a start, but she comes a working child actress at seven years old, paying the bills for her and her mom.

[B]

She immediately takes off more than her mom, it seems like.

[A]

Oh, yeah, extremely. And she's very kind to her mom in the book in a way where I'm happy. She has that love for her, and that's the lens she can go through, but I don't. It was hard to have. I have love for her mom where it's clear her mom was just a struggling human. Yeah. But Christine is taking care of the family at 7 years old. And then on page 68, she writes, My mom has said that when I hit my teens, she loathed me. The only time in my life that she actively hated my guts. I was so depressed and such a horrible little asshole because of it. I can hardly blame her. I think what hurt about this is that I think I could have written the same thing. And, like, I also turned into a pretty vicious little teenager. But now when I look Back at it. And I look at Christina's childhood, it's like, well, when you go through trauma as a child. Yeah. By the time you're 13, you're probably pretty mad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And to hear her mom be like, I hated you.

[B]

Yeah. And her mom is also like going through her own addiction and like getting through a heroin addiction.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And getting away from Joe Lala, her own domestic violence. And they become friends. Especially when she gets Kelly on Married With Children because she's like, financially, she's.

[B]

Her music.

[A]

Well, she doesn't talk about a ton after this, but I think it just remained.

[B]

I think so too. Well, because it's also a lot of like, they stayed in one house. Christina was the person that bought their first house and they stayed a unit. I mean, I think what I kept coming to and why I keep saying I feel so much love for her is because there's just like so many valid ways of coping with the things that happen to you in your life. And it just seems like it would have been as valid for her to cut out her mother. It would have been as valid for her to move away from Los Angeles, as valid for her to get the out of Laurel Canyon. But she just to talk about her dad, like her abandonment from her father. It would have been just as valid for her to be like, that guy. I never want to hear from him again. She just at every turn chose to keep the people with her and like forgive them and see them as whole people with real problems and not punish them for it. Yeah, it's very like, it's a very grown up thing that, like, I know.

[A]

And also would have been just as grown up to excommunicate 100%.

[B]

I think, like her, her views on forgiveness are really, really advanced. Like really shocking to me.

[A]

Or as I would say, too forgiving.

[B]

Yes, I. I mean, I. Yes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, you know, she's a working actor. When she is a teenager, she really starts working and she starts filming this show, Heart of The City on 20th Century Fox lot. And even though she's just a young teen, she's working adult hours. She's there all the time. And there's this story in the book. This is actually, I think the part of the book I hated the most. This story I'm about to read. Let me just read it. She said, we drove by 20th Century Fox. I innocently said to my friend, oh, God, that's so weird. That's where I live. There was a beat of silence. You're doing it my Friend said my blood stopped and that was it. I had told her, tell me if I ever get weird with what I'm doing. And I had gotten weird. I had broken a sacred inner rule to never come off as someone who thought that acting was anything special. Since that day, I have never spoken again about my accomplishments. Not a single day. I don't boast because that girl whispered in my ear and still whispers every day. You're doing it. She is going to reference you're doing it and this memory three more times throughout the book. I hated this because it's like if you can find forgiveness for your father, let this memory go.

[B]

Let go a hundred percent.

[A]

Take in your accomplishments. Feel special. This girl is just a teenage girl. I know it hurt, but like you had told her to tell you, teenage girls are fucked up to each other. Let her go. It's not real. And even at the end of the book she's like, I just still hear like you're doing it. And I'm like, no, I know.

[B]

Also, she has a 13 year old daughter when she's writing this. So she has to know that like the idea of like, I don't know, passing by the Fox lot when that's where you work and not being like the that's where I work is sort of what she was saying.

[A]

That's where I pay my mother's bills.

[B]

Yes. Like that's a normal thing to say. That's a nor. Like she's so hard on. She's so hard on herself and so easy on everybody else.

[A]

That's exactly what it is. Yeah. And I. Oh, that one was painful. I hope she releases that one soon. So then we have, I'm gonna call it a fun little story. She said, I went further than making sure everyone knew I wasn't going to be railroaded into doing something I didn't want to do. I wasn't going to be nice to people just for the sake of either. I felt that I should get a job from merit, not because my personality. So those who thought intimidation, be it sexual or otherwise, was the currency, knew not to screw with me from the get go. I didn't play that game. I made them scared of me. Harvey Weinstein, for example, was definitely afraid of me. Once at a Miramax party, I heard him like saying something horrible about a woman as she passed by. And before I could even think, I said, oh, come on man, that's just gross. Weinstein just kind of looked at me and I could tell he was thinking, don't talk to me. Like that. But at the same time, I could sense a different kind of appraisal, as though he was also thinking, this chick doesn't fudge around. And he was right to be afraid of me. I did not fuck around. She's full of complexities like that because we just said she's easy on people. But then, like, as a teenager is like, fuck you, you gross old man. And you're like, yeah, totally. So another big piece of the book that's going to come up a lot is her eating disorder. And she said, I began a lifelong struggle with body image and weight, a horrible relationship with food, and a warped sense of self so bad that I'd spend the rest of my life with a rampant dysmorphia. I never saw the skinny girl. Everyone else did. I only ever saw something else, and I still do now. Her mom introduced her to Weight Watchers as a kid, which. What will give you anything. Disorder till the end of your days. Then she's in Hollywood, and she's obviously put in the ingenue role and is constantly, like, trying to be a size 0. Constantly trying to lose weight. I also found this so painful because at the end of the book, she said, sometimes I struggle more with my weight than I do with Ms. Meaning, like, she doesn't like that she gained weight while going through this disease. And then she'll think to herself, well, at least my legs are really skinny. And you're like, no, I don't want that to matter anymore for you.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And she was cool. She was like, I told you I'd be honest. Like, I have body image issues more than I have Ms. Issues some days. And I said, I thank you for being honest, because I do think this is true to what has been done to women's brains. Brains, yeah. But much like the. You're doing it. I want her to let it go.

[B]

I know, I know. It's so hard to understand body dysmorphia. It's hard to understand it when you look at a thin white woman, a thin, blonde white woman, like, whose journal entries are, gosh, I'm getting fat. I've gained so much weight.

[A]

Did you ever journal like that when you were a kid?

[B]

I don't think I journaled like that. I prayed to God to wake up skinny. I would, like, cry myself to sleep being like, please let me wake up without my stomach. Please, God, if you're there, let me wake up without a stomach. And then I'd wake up and be like, it didn't happen again. Like, yeah, So I get it. I get it. I think a lot of us get it. It's so real to be like, this is a woman who is writing her book from her bed where she says her TV is always blaring because the noise and the pain are so loud. She has to always have stimulus and distractions. She can barely see her own child. She can barely parent, like, get down her stairs. And she's still unhappy with herself. And it's like, man, men really won. Like, we can be dying in bed and still upset about our stomachs being big.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what a distraction.

[A]

What a distraction of our time and our energy and this. The. The. The thing I try and take from it is I remember years ago, like, when I was in college, I was, like, in a bathroom in the. In Times Square, and these two women who were, like, 85 were coming out of the bathroom talking about, like, how fat they felt. And. But I remember thinking to myself, like, I hope I don't feel like that. I hope I can, because I also hated myself at the moment. Obviously. I was a. I was in acting school.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, I'm the worst. But I thought to myself, I hope I can fix this before I'm 85. And now every time I like you saying that or I think of that, I think, I don't have to wait until then. I do it now, do it now, do it now. Love myself now. Not doing this. I'm not giving all my energy to this when I could be putting it so many more important places.

[B]

100.

[A]

I praise her honesty. And I also, like, want. I just, you know, you just want happiness for her. She then talks about. Here's a sentence in the book, page 85. I went to school with people like Corey Haim and Corey Feldman, as well as a bunch of kids who had to work for their parents in the afternoons in stores, restaurants, and other family businesses. So she's just of a certain time in la, also notably from those names, a time when children and teens just weren't taken care of in any way. And she said I was a messy, weird punk chick who, when I started on Married with children, was making $20,000 a week. Normal high school culture was not for me. So when she gets the role, Kelly Bundy immediately becomes wildly rich. She's still in school, kind of. And she had turned down the role on Married With Children at first because she thought comedy was stupid.

[B]

Painful.

[A]

That was hard to read.

[B]

It happened a few times, like, every. It's so funny because I think she's most known for being a great comedic actress. And yeah, every time she's faced with like, like a anchorman, she's like, oh, comedy gross.

[A]

Cheap. She's like, I'm a real actor. I need to prove to people I'm a real actor. And I'm over here being like, I've worshiped you for your comedy skills, which I think take more work.

[B]

They're impeccable.

[A]

They're impeccable. Yeah. But she was not happy about this. She didn't think it was real or good acting and did it for the money and did enjoy some of the stuff that came from it. But I would say it sounded like it was never a role she really loved.

[B]

It sounded like it was something she. It wasn't a passion project, but also sort of seemed like a proxy for a childhood in a way. Like her relationship with her cast seemed like she was getting like, parenting from her actor parents. Yes.

[A]

Playing pagan Al Bundy. Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly right. Then there's a very fun story. She said. So she's like, in this little group of like Hollywood teen stars. And also she's going to all the huge events because now she's famous. And she said orbiting in and out of this group was a little known actor named Brad Pitt. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now and we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles you can enjoy. Bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles. Available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for all times. There's no one like you and there never will be. From the producer, Bohemian Rhapsody. There are many legends, but there is only One Michael Radio PG 13 in theaters April 24th. Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. In 1989, I invited him to be my date at the MTV Video Music Awards. We'd been platonic pals. He'd often swing by my house. You know, he would help clean my mom's yard. One day I took another look at Brad and thought, apparently he did the same. I invited him to the awards. Brad was kind enough to drive to my house and pick up my mom and Lori Depp and get them to the theater. Now if you're like Lori Depp, here's the next sentence. In my 1988 journal, I wrote, my best friend is Johnny's ex wife, Lori. Pretty scary, huh? Johnny and Lori had been married for three years in the mid-80s. So Brad Pitt is picking up Christina Applegate's mom, Christina Applegate and her best friend Lori Depp, who is the ex wife to Johnny Depp already. And we'll get to Johnny Depp later.

[B]

And Christina is 17.

[A]

She's 17. She's also madly in love with Johnny Depp. Yeah, this is wild. Okay, so she talks about how she's in like the best dress she's ever worn, even though it was at the MTV Video Music Awards. And she's like, I'm glad I overdressed for it. And I said, that's right. And then she wrote this. I felt so powerful and sure of myself for once when I was at the MTV Video Music Awards that when the awards show was over, I left with Sebastian Bach, not Brad Pitt. I had spent all night staring at Bach, who was then a long haired hunk fronting the band Skid Row. I hate to put it like this, but Brad back then was still making his way as an actor, and he wasn't the Brad Pitt, the man of so many people's dreams. And it gets worse. Brad left to sullenly drive my mom and Lori home, apparently at a gas station. Along the way, Brad almost got into a fight with a bunch of gang members and not surprisingly, was subsequently very mad at me. We didn't talk for many years after that, much later, but at different times. Two of his movie star girlfriends asked me if it was true that I was the girl who left Brad behind at the MTV Video Music Awards. Brad had apparently told both of them separately that he was still mad at me. Eventually we agreed that I'd been a kid. And though he deserves so much better, it was time to forgive the child who dumped him for the lead singer of Skid Row. Of course, Brad is now the Brad Pitt and Sebastian Bach. Well, he still has long hair, I guess.

[B]

Well, he was on the Gilmore Girls reboot and he was on Gilmore Girls.

[A]

Okay, there's that. Who do you think are the two Brad Pitt girlfriends?

[B]

I know, I thought about this.

[A]

I think one is Gwyneth Paltrow.

[B]

Oh yeah, that's a great one. It's also funny because I was thinking like, then she goes on to play Jennifer Aniston's sister on Friends, who was married to him at the time, which made me think it was Jennifer Aniston. Also Brad Pitt showing anger after something bad happened to him. Weird.

[A]

I read that and I said, oh, villain origin story.

[B]

Villain origin story. But also kind of menchie to drive the mom. The mom's back home afterwards.

[A]

Can you.

[B]

First of all, there's everything about this I can't imagine. When I think of like, if I just like copy and paste my mom and I into these roles of me being like, okay, I'm gonna go off with Star now. You're gonna get home with my date.

[A]

Right.

[B]

My mom would be like, no, I know.

[A]

Absolutely not. It's all so unbelievable. It's also so you have to like reframe in your head that Brad Pitt was like the kid who raked her mom's yard. Because a couple pages later she's gonna meet and date Anthony Kiedis, another known fuck boy in our memoir universe. Go listen to the Ione sky episode. And when he dumps Christina, he's like, but could you do my laundry? And she says, sure thing. And so you're like, oh, Brad Pitt, like keeps losing out to these long haired.

[B]

I gotta see what Brad Pitt looked like as a teenager.

[A]

Isn't Thelma and Louise his like breakout role?

[B]

Yeah, he's full hot.

[A]

He's.

[B]

It's important to note the time because in the 80s, girls liked grungy long haired dudes. Sure, I'll let Johnny Depp and Sebastian back. I don't get it.

[A]

It's just tough to be having this discussion knowing what we know now. I know about what happened with everyone. And also this is where we should come in and say Johnny Depp is all over this book.

[B]

And this reminds me of a little bit of the Charlie Sheen memoir of these kids that grow up in la. And his was like a Malibu story. So his people were like Sean and Chris Penn. But like those worlds of like all these people that become huge megastars were just teenagers. Idiots.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With parents that just like, didn't watch them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And all these intergenerational friendships in odd ways. But I suppose Christina's mom was not that much older than her, so maybe that's.

[A]

I guess. But like, yeah, we're really not looking out for older dudes hanging around teenagers who are being treated as adults because they're stars on a TV show. I mean, I'm skipping ahead a little bit and then I'll come right back. But just on the Johnny Depot of all, he's just kind of around. There's no stories about him. He's just There. But here's the weirdest story. Well, not the weirdest story. Here's one of the stories that got me. She said, I hated the limelight, and everywhere in West Hollywood was bathed in it. Then came the Viper Room. I'm here to tell you that the Viper Room was the coolest club that ever existed. This is Johnny Depp's club. She said, Johnny instilled a cherished level of privacy for anyone, not just celebrities. The first rule of fight club, etc. It was our safe haven, a private place, and that's how it will remain. Which is like, no paparazzi, no gossip, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then she starts talking about how much she loves dance. And she said, eventually my friend Shannon, the manager of the Viper Room, thought that the Pussycat Dolls would be a perfect fit for her Thursday speakeasy night. And she said, Shannon told Johnny about the Dolls and he invited us to audition for a Thursday night spot. And I said, are you in the Cat Dolls?

[B]

And that's when I said, Nicole Scherzinger's Cat Dolls.

[A]

So I. I didn't miss anything. Right. Because I went back looking for the setup to this.

[B]

No, it wasn't there.

[A]

No. So she's a founding member of the Pussycat Dolls when they were a dance group. Yes. A dance burlesque group before they.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Were they singing it? I'm so.

[B]

They weren't. I don't think they were singing.

[A]

Well, they audition.

[B]

Yeah. Because they pivot to being a singing group.

[A]

That's right. They do this audition and Johnny says, this. This is so cool. Johnny said when we were done, this is why I opened the place. This is so.

[B]

This is why I opened the place.

[A]

This is the next sentence, though. This is so Thursday. And that was it. He loved it. We were part of the Viper Rooms Thursday night entertainment for the next decade. We quickly became a phenomenon. It got so big. We would feature guest stars like Gwen Stefani and Christina Aguilera. Back then, we were lip syncing for fun, dancing to 1940s songs. And then later, Jimmy Iovine told Robin that the Pussycat Dolls should be a singing group, not just a dance group. We'd gone from playing the Viper Room to the Roxy. But I was disappointed. The dancing started to change. I remember saying to Robin during one Christmas performance, there's a lot of booty touching going on. Things were off, but Empire's got an empire. And then she said, Robin arrived. Places in a Bentley now. Good for her. But it wasn't what I'd originally been part of. But, hey, man, we got Don'tcha. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me? This was never a sentiment I thought of for myself, but Nicole Schertzinger and a few OG Dolls dominated. How cool is that? I wrote. I'm so confused. Yeah, who is Robin?

[B]

Who is.

[A]

Were you on the first single? She's writing it like, we know, but I don't know.

[B]

She never says, who is Robin?

[A]

And I was like, robin, the pop star. I don'.

[B]

Oh, that's Robin with a Y.

[A]

When I'm gleaning from this and I can feel a pickup coming, we will whoosh it in if we need it. I'm coming in for a pickup right here. And I will explain what we have found outside the Internet.

[B]

Thank God.

[A]

Okay, so here's what I found in my research. Robin Anton began exploring the idea of a modern burlesque troupe in 1990, and some of the performers included Christina Applegate. And then they began to really perform in 1995 at the Viper Room, where they would wear, like, pinup costumes. Costumes and lingerie and things like that. And they had that residency Thursday night from 1995 to 2001. And then different things started happening, like with Christina Applegate, Christina Aguilera, and Carmen Electra. They were featured in a Maxim magazine shoot in 2002. And then after that, Robin got the advice to make it into a dance group. And the only troupe members who remained after this recasting process didn't include Christina Applegate. It was basically like the group was going to transform into a new musical group, and new girls came in and other girls did not. And Nicole Scherzinger was part of that new time. Okay, back to the episode that is just one part of Johnny Depp. But then he's just kind of there in the book, which is another one where you're like, no commentary, huh?

[B]

Nothing on Johnny?

[A]

Nothing. Nothing except he's around. And I think it's clear you love and adore him. I think. I don't know. So two things we have to talk about before we can move on to some more amazing stories. She writes on page 164, right after married, she said, I'm grateful for Married With Children, grateful for the time I spent there, grateful for the lessons I learned, grateful for the family I had in Ed and Katie and David. But if I didn't get that girl away from me, meaning the role of Kelly, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I needed to be me. But that doesn't mean I made Great decisions. Right after Married ended, a script came across my desk for a little movie called Legally Blonde.

[B]

Oof.

[A]

I didn't even audition or read for it or meet with anyone. I was done with the ditzy blondes thing. And to think I could have had Reese Witherspoon money.

[B]

You know, it's an oof gadoof career wise. But I have to say, I think she's good on money.

[A]

You do?

[B]

I do, because of every story she tells. First of all, Christina applegate was making 20 grand a week as her first paycheck for.

[A]

Yeah, but children, pain for her mom, and who else knows what?

[B]

But she's also owned her one house since, like, the 90s.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

The way she talks about how she flies people here and there, and she's off to Hawaii. Like, I just.

[A]

So maybe. Maybe we can, like, be sad. If she loved the role, but she wouldn't have been happy in the role. It's comedy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's ditzy.

[B]

Like, it would have only made her career bigger, which would have been so bad for her because she doesn't want to be known as a comedian.

[A]

Yeah, I completely agree. Now, there is another huge piece of this book that I just need to tell everyone. Like, you know, I talk about domestic violence a lot. We read Virginia Giuffre's memoir. Like, I really try and go there, but I felt really overwhelmed, I think, just because of what's happening in the world and my own stamina. But there is a domestic violence relationship with Christina in her last years of married with children with a guy who is. Is unnamed in the book.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I don't know how to tackle it and go through it because I feel, like, choked up about it. And the other thing that I. I think is really great in the book, and I think it's really worth reading, especially to explore relationships like this is that the story is so all over the place, like, beginning, middle, end, middle, end, beginning, beginning, beginning, end. And. And, like, the really so many horrible things happen. You're like, and this is the end, and this is the end. And it's never the end. And the story keeps going and new things keep happening and things don't make sense. And then she has a security gu, and he is, like, brutally emotionally abusing her, causing her to have a disorder. He's abusing her mother. He's physically abusing her. And the takeaway I had is, yes, this is normally what it looks like in that there is no clear something bad happened. I realized it I left. It is 30 bad things happened all at the same time with some joy woven into it. And I don't know how I finally got free, but finally I did.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, it seems like she finally got free because also she had amazing access to protection, like an actual

[A]

security guard who she called.

[B]

Yeah. She had had a literal boundary, a physical boundary who couldn't break down because it was their job to not.

[A]

And she had finally reached a place where she didn't want to be with him anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And she's also one heartbreaking thing of the book. I guess I call it heartbreaking because when I go back and read my childhood journals, I'm like, oh, my God, it's. It's scary. It's like, full of nightmares. Everyone. There's some people, and you're one of them who can, like, pull your childhood entry at, like, a fun comedy show. And you're like, I'm gonna read this childhood journal entry. And the audience is like, this is so funny and cute.

[B]

Yeah. Because I saved my dark shit for literal God when I was falling asleep.

[A]

But I don't have any cute stuff in my journal. I just have pain. And so does Christina Applegate. And she prints her journals in the book.

[B]

She sure does.

[A]

And so she's printing the things she's saying about this relationship where if you read it, you're like, this is bad and horrible. Get out and run. And she's in this relationship for years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So is there anything else you want to say on that relationship before I take us into the next section of the book?

[B]

I think it was really well said. It's a really great exploration, even seeing how her family gets brought into it, of, like, how all encompassing and hard how like much it is. Like having your feet stuck in tar.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Because her mom is even like, you know, I'm gonna not speak to you if you walk into that hotel room with him, thinking it will get her to stop being with him. Him. And she's in such a psychosis. She's like, I have to do it so we won't hurt you. But please know in my eyes, I want you to stop me. It's just a lot.

[B]

It's a lot.

[A]

It's a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm gonna move on. Take a hard turn. This chapter. I tried to look stuff up. I need the cookies to do some deep researching. And I need. Or I need you to tell me the answers, Joe, because she writes this on page 183 in the early summer of 2001. I shot a movie with Cameron Diaz called the Sweetest Thing. Cameron and I clicked from the moment we met at auditions. I loved every day of working with her. It never even felt like work. And that movie was such an important source of joy in my life at the time. She goes on to tell stories. There are three women in that movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You didn't do a movie with Cameron Diaz. You did a movie with Cameron Diaz and Selma Blair. Selma Blair also has Ms.

[B]

Yes, she does.

[A]

And as they have said in many interviews in 2022, Selma Blair was Christina's friend who pointed out a symptom to her and said, you need to get tested for Ms. So Christina credited Selma Blair at one time.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah. For helping her discover she has Ms. I found that out because I said, why are you pretending Selma Blair wasn't in this movie? It was a three hander. Yeah. What happened? Something happened, something happened, something happened. So she then is like, real quickly, I had a vegan sober wedding. That sounds like, oof, the worst wedding. And she writes that she's like, I'm sorry to everyone who came to my wedding.

[B]

That's. That's nice that she did that. I feel that way by having a destination wedding. I cringe about it, so.

[A]

You do. It was only two hours away from Chicago. It was.

[B]

No one. Everyone had was inconvenienced. Everyone from Detroit was inconvenienced. Everyone from Chicago was inconvenienced. You lived in New York. You were definitely inconvenienced.

[A]

It was tough for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was I.

[B]

What was I thinking?

[A]

You really wanted a. You wanted a. A what was a cabin? A farm.

[B]

I wanted a millennial cringe wedding.

[A]

I wanted a barnyard.

[B]

I wanted a Mason jar.

[A]

You wanted a Mason jar Barn wedding. And you got it, girlfriend.

[B]

Thank you so much. And I'm so glad.

[A]

And you looked gorgeous.

[B]

Have that memory. Thank you. Thanks for putting lipstick on me throughout the night.

[A]

That was my one job, everyone. And I. And I did it well.

[B]

You nailed it.

[A]

I really. I. I kept that lip. That lip looking bold, but.

[B]

Have you been to a dry wedding? I have. Yeah.

[A]

I have.

[B]

They're tough.

[A]

I. I don't even drink and they're tough. I know. I was gonna say you don't drink at all. No.

[B]

I take my little edible and I have myself a nice time.

[A]

It's tough. Anyways, Christina has that wedding. She speaks so little about the guy. His name is Jonathan Schuck. He was in that thing you do. But I had to look him up. I see.

[B]

Oh, I remembered him vividly. That's the marriage I remember because he was.

[A]

Please talk about it.

[B]

So hot. Couldn't tell you his name.

[A]

He's a hot guy.

[B]

He's so hot. He's like, classically hot.

[A]

She says when she turned to walk down the aisle, she thought. Thought, I don't want to marry him.

[B]

Oof. Good deal. Another one.

[A]

But she'd gotten sober. I think she's coming off of this relationship that was horrible. Thought like, this will be good for me. Goes for it. But she doesn't have much to say about that marriage. She's like, then it's over.

[B]

I really actually was sort of giving her. I mean, you couldn't get me to talk about an ex boyfriend. Like, less like, I. I love to rip him apart.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And she. She did not want to include anything.

[B]

All class.

[A]

All she ripped apart was her own wedding where, like, in his shoes.

[B]

Actually, that was the best. Her read was like, he was wearing ugly shoes on their first date.

[A]

Yeah. And she was like, that's a red flag, ladies, if you don't like the shoes. But I gotta tell you, I don't agree. Buy him new shoes. Make him buy himself.

[B]

That man is a very attractive man.

[A]

I can see why you overlooked the

[B]

shoes a hundred percent. Also, I think he was part of her agape thing. Her church that she started going to.

[A]

Aha.

[B]

So maybe there was some of that happening.

[A]

I see.

[B]

But like, this f. I'm gonna be, like, living this clean lifestyle. He's part of it.

[A]

Yes. Okay. That's more information than I got from her chapter. She seemed to just want to be like, the wedding sucked. I shouldn't have married him. Moving on.

[B]

Yeah. Or maybe there's stuff there. This is me editorializing. But maybe there's more to say. But she doesn't want to be disrespectful to her husband.

[A]

That's nice.

[B]

I guess, if he was a nice guy.

[A]

Yeah. Well, then she's like, I had a little audition for a movie called Anchorman, and again, she's a comedic icon, but. But seems like she could care less. And she said they lowballed her so badly that she said no to the movie and that Will Ferrell and Adam McKay gave up parts of their own salary to pay her more. Which I said, yes. Good.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And she talked about how everyone was so kind and great on that movie, and when she wanted to learn how to improvise, Steve Carell was like, you have it within you. Like, Just go. Which is so interesting, because if someone asked me how to improvise, I'd give them a lesson. But I guess maybe I should say believe in yourself.

[B]

I mean, she gave a shout out to Second City.

[A]

Yeah. Although she did say Adam McKay created the upright Citizens Brigade, where people like Amy Poehler studied. And I said, no. Amy Poehler created Upright Citizens Brigade. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if Adam McKay ever did.

[A]

Well, he was a part of it. He was around. But it's like. It's not like Amy studied there. Amy created that.

[B]

Created it.

[A]

Anyways, that is a little thing for the small percentage of listeners. Us. Who care about improv only. Or only us.

[B]

Only us.

[A]

So she then gives some tea about Vince Vaughn. She said, I once auditioned for the role of Geneva in a Ron Howard movie, the Dilemma. The movie was to star Vince Vaughn, who I'd already worked with on Anchorman, which had lots and lots of improv. At the audition, Ron suggested, why don't you guys just improv for a couple seconds right before you get into it? It. Given our previous experience together, I was surprised when Vince looked at me straight in the face and said, do you understand what that means? It means we're gonna make up lines before we get into the scene. Come on, bro. Are you kidding me right now? I thought, needless to say, I didn't get the gig. Wynonna Ryder did. And I'm betting she improvised the out of that scene. So she wanted to throw a little Vince sheet in there again. Yeah, that was rude. So then she does the musical Sweet Charity. And I remember. I remember seeing that she was doing Sweet Charity. I said, how odd, because it's just not how I knew her, but to her, she was like, I am a dancer.

[B]

It was a culmination.

[A]

I'm a singer. This is the role I was meant to play. People need to know this side of me that I'm not just like this comedy lady. And do you want to talk about what happened on Sweet Charity?

[B]

Well, the mechanics of it. Of how her injury occurred. I don't totally understand. Understand. She fell. It seems she fell into a pit

[A]

and broke her foot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're like, well, you can't be in Sweet Charity anymore because you have a broken foot, and this role requires you to never leave the stage and dance the whole time. She then says, don't give up on me. I'm gonna heal the bone in my foot. Have someone go in for previews, but I'll be up by opening night. At one point, the People putting up the money are like, ticket sales are going down because people don't think you're in this thing. She wants this role so badly. She truly feels like she is cursed. She writes in the book, I'm cursed. Every time I get something that I want, it gets taken from me. And so when they try and close the musical, she puts up a half a million dollars of her own money to keep Sweet Charity up. And then she goes on stage and dances the show with the 45 healed

[B]

foot really, really hard.

[A]

I mean, she wanted it.

[B]

That was her dream. Well, I think she also, like, it was validated because then she wins a Tony for it. Yeah.

[A]

I just felt so much pain for her to have to go through that. But, yeah, then she wins a Tony, but her foot's messed up for the rest of her life.

[B]

Yeah. I wondered if, like, I think it's also when, like, finances are tied to art and it's so complicated, like, wouldn't it be wonderful to live in a world where they were like, why don't we visit this next year?

[A]

Yeah, why don't we push too much? But we all. We all know in this business that means you never see it again.

[B]

You're not. It's not happening.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I did watch a video of her performing at the Tonys because I totally, like, I remember her in Sweet. That she was in Sweet Charity, but I couldn't remember seeing her. And it was, like, lovely. And she was great.

[A]

She's such a great performer. And. Which crushes me, because if you're a cookie, you know how much I hate Ben Brantley because he just determined so many women's lives for two decades in New York City. If you ever went on Broadway, he was like, the guy. And in her book, Ben Brantley is referenced in so many memoirs of women being like, and then Ben Brantley ruined my life. And that's happening here as well. Ben Brantley was a huge theater critic at the New York Times. He kind of decided he was the maker. Like, if you have talent or don't have talent, if your show goes or doesn't go. And she said, even though Ben Brantley at the New York Times didn't like what I did, his comment quote, while she executes her steps with care and precision, dance is not a transcendent form of self expression for Mrs. Applegate. Ms. Applegate was horribly brutal about a person basically dancing on one foot. Enough folks did. And so, yeah, she printed his bad quotes in the book because it hurt so bad.

[B]

Because that's what she believes about herself. She believes all her bad press.

[A]

It's not true.

[B]

It's not true, Christina.

[A]

So then the book is going a lot faster now. She talks about how she gets tested and has the bracha gene, brca, which means your percentage of having breast cancer or ovarian cancer goes way up. And she had her breast tissue removed because her mom had gone through breast cancer, and. And she was diagnosed with breast cancer as well. And she wrote this, and I thought it was maybe my favorite part of the book. She said, about a month after my surgery, I appeared on the Oprah Winfrey show to talk about what I went through. I remember sitting on stage, all lights on me. It should have been a moment to share the truth. Quote, it becomes such a blessing. I talked to Melissa Etheridge two days after I was diagnosed, and the first thing she said to me was, christina, it's a blessing that it's happened to you in your life. And right now you get to start over, change everything. The way you deal with things in life, the way you react to things. Fear can hurt you. Stress can hurt you. But this is the time you have the opportunity to change the way you eat everything you do. Here's how I feel about the interview now. It was bullshit.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Oprah was wonderful to have me on the show to promote my foundation and bring awareness to brca. Even my amazing oncologist came on. I will be eternally grateful to have that kind of platform to help women, but I wish I'd used it differently in terms of what I said. Frankly, I was disgusted by what came out of my mouth. I had lied, thinking I was being uplifting. I was acting like Little Miss Warrior. But that's not how I really felt. Worse, I'm sure I was just making women who had similar diagnoses and who were perhaps sitting in their homes watching me on Oprah feel even more devastated, even sadder, because there I was talking about blessings when they were going through a living hell. And she said, at the end of the interview, I got up from the chair and fell against the wall, sobbing.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I felt her pain and also felt such a much pride in her, like, being able to have this redemption of being able to write this book of, like, there is a pressure that we have as women when you're going through something hard to be like, it's a blessing.

[A]

It's good.

[B]

Yeah, I get to change the way I eat. No, that's the. Like, your life is upside down.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Even how foreign her body feels to her after the Surgery, how long it takes her to look at her breasts afterwards. Like, these are things that probably would have helped other women to hear and will help other women to hear because

[A]

it's in the book now.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I think that's beautifully said.

[B]

Her talking about how healing and the, the space of like having just given. When you give birth in a hospital, they are on you to breastfeed, like immediately. Like nurses will come in, come in, come in. Is she on the breast? Has she tried it? Has she had it? Have you fed her? Let's try her again. Let's try her this way. Oh, you're not getting anything. Let's try this way.

[A]

Let's do that.

[B]

You have just given birth, your body is convulsing, it's freezing, your hungry or tired, and woman after woman comes into the room while your tits are out and is like sticking your baby on your boob. And for some people, breastfeeding doesn't work. Some people don't make milk. Some people have had reconstructive surgery. Some people who have had their breast tissue removed or have had breast cancer don't have nipples. They literally cannot breastfeed. And a very dear friend of mine just told me about how she had signs up on the door that was like, recent cancer survivor, breast cancer survivor. Do not ask about breastfeeding when you walk into this room. And still one nurse was like, can we get baby on the boob? So her having this, this moment where she has her baby, Sadie, and it's sort of a healing moment is like that she is like a woman that she has her reproductive system, which is validating to her after having her breasts like taken away, I thought was really beautiful and really honest.

[A]

And in that moment, a nurse looks at her surgical scars on her nipple and Christina's like, don't feel bad for me. I'm having a skin to skin contact moment with my child.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And the nurse was starting to cry. She's like, get the out of here. Oi. Oy.

[A]

Well, oh, that takes us into the next piece. If you're like, wait, when did Christina have her child and with whom? That is the next irrelevant. That's the next piece of the book where she's kind of in this mode where, you know, she's post divorce, she's dating, but really just single, and she runs into an old friend named Martin who apparently has been there the whole time.

[B]

Martine, thank you. Would only know if you listened.

[A]

That's right. But you know what it is is M A R T Y N. And so he apparently has been in her life for years. Yeah, this is my little writing PSA to memoirs. But, like, this has happened in a few memoirs where they give you the whole story at the very end, and I'm like, no, put that person in the beginning, in the middle, and then we get to be like. You married Martine? Yes. Yes.

[B]

That's Storytelling 101.

[A]

Because she. They were friends. They were best friends. At one point, he would sleep on our couch. He was a rocker. Her favorite.

[B]

She nursed him back to health.

[A]

She nursed him back to health. And then at one point, he runs into her with his wife, and he dirty little dog. He sends her messages until his wife is like, you cannot be friends with Christina Applegate. That there's clearly chemistry there.

[B]

So they have a child.

[A]

Oh. And he has a child with his wife. And she's like, stop talking to Christina.

[B]

And then the number of times I've had to say to my husband, you cannot be friends with Christina Applegate. You simply can't.

[A]

To your husband. Yes. I'm sorry, sir. Well, and then imagine how that woman feels. That is a. We need to check on Martine's ex wife because he divorces his ex wife. Then years after that, runs into Christina again. They fall madly in love and are married and are soulmates. So his wife was right.

[B]

His. His wife was totally right. She knew. It does need to be said they run into each other while they're doing separate volunteer work at LA Children's Hospital.

[A]

It's very beautiful. Very much. It's a very beautiful story. I'm just sure his ex wife is pissed. Of course. She was like, I knew it, Martine.

[B]

Much like, I'm sure Christina's mother is like, what the fuck? I just had a baby named Christina Applegate, and my husband just off up the coast and immediately found his beloved

[A]

because she could read his astrology.

[B]

Yes. God, why did I never ask him if he was a Scorpio?

[A]

Exactly. So, I mean, it's. It. You can tell she loves Martine and. And she walks down the aisle to Amy Mann's Save Me, and they're. They're just deeply in love. And she has her daughter Sadie, who is everything and her world, and we're ending the book now. We're towards the end, and there's just a couple more little tidbits I have to pull out. She said, In 2015, I shot bad Moms with Mila Kun as Kristen Bell, Katherine Hahn, Annie Mumolo, and Jada Pinkett Smith. Eventually, I Had she said I had wanted the role of Carla eventually, played by Katherine Hahn. When I asked the directors why they hadn't given me the part, they told me I was the only one who had scared everyone.

[B]

1.

[A]

I was given the role of Gwendolyn James, the worst mom, until she wasn't. And then, I can't believe this. She goes in to do her adr where, like, you see pieces of the film as you're recording things. She was looking at herself on screen. She said, I look so old. And she said, I made a comment about it out loud. And to my horror, one of the directors admitted that the studio had already asked post production to fix my face. We had to spend $30,000 to make you laugh, look younger. He said, this business is brutal. I said, why did men direct bad moms? Oh, I don't even know who I'm talking about. I haven't looked it up. This is no shade to whoever you are. Yeah. I'm just saying, can we get more women directors there who would maybe, I don't know, keep it to themselves that they had to fix your face that you're looking at already thinking you look old. No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

This woman, she's been through too much.

[A]

She's been through too much. But then she said, this business is brutal until it is magic. And then she talks about how she is in the infamous Van down by the R with Chris Farley on snl.

[B]

So cool.

[A]

So, so cool. Cool. And then she talks about playing Jennifer Aniston's sister on Friends. Jennifer Aniston characters Rachel's sister on Friends. And then she talks about Maddie, as in Matthew Perry.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who obviously she was also very close to. And she and Maddie did Shakespeare together. And she would say to herself, I'll show these. I ain't no comedy actress. Again.

[B]

Painful shade, Painful. Why? Why not hate us?

[A]

Don't hate us.

[B]

Harky play major life.

[A]

And then she continues on with saying, I'm cursed because she gets dead to me. Fantastic show, Fantastic role. The whole show is incredible. She's incredible. And she gets her Ms. Diagnosis and has to finish the show in a wheelchair at times.

[B]

Yeah. They talk about how Liz Feldman, the creator, gives her an out so many times and how this was like a crew that really was understanding. They were like, let's end the show now. Let's not make you do this. Like.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she really. It was the role of a lifetime for her, and it's. It's devastating. I mean, I remember watching the significant difference and how she Was carrying herself between seasons. And you're like, something's wrong with her. And it's.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So painful. I think the most painful part is her saying, like, I know this is my last role. I know I won't be able to do this again. It sort of speaks to, like, how hard it is to have a disability in this business because, like, why can't they make it work, you know?

[A]

Yeah. And also, I mean, yeah. She's just so talented.

[B]

So talented.

[A]

And she ends the book talking about how in the beginning of the book, she says, I am not Christina Applegate. That is not my real name. Anyone who calls me that, like, doesn't really know me. And she talks about how she found this connection to Hawaii.

[B]

The actor who played her brother on Married with Children takes her to Hawaii during, like, a hiatus, and she falls in love with Hawaii.

[A]

Yes. And she writes this in one of the last chapters. What's my Hawaiian name? I was in Hawaii with my friend Shaney Boy Kilikina. He said Kiki for short. To this day, no one on Hawaii calls me Christina. I'm Kiki. Kiki is my real name. Kiki is who I really am. She's fierce and free, and she doesn't have Ms. Or trauma or low self esteem or a history of bad decisions. Kiki is who I really am. So listen, I talk about name changes a lot on this podcast. Happens with a lot of people. Happen with myself. And it's. I always say it indicates really deep trauma.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think this new name allows her to separate her. The parts of herself that she didn't like and live in this. This new. It's like Sasha Fierce. Do you know what I mean? It's her.

[B]

Sasha Fierce.

[A]

Yeah. Of just like, I am Kiki.

[B]

And it's her Chapel Ron.

[A]

It's her Chapel Ron. It's. It's the name she feels best in. It is funny because I have a lot of family connections to people who were in cults in Hawaii. So that's what this brought up for me.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But that's not her experience. But, you know, just like white people joining.

[B]

I was gonna say it brought up for me a lot of, like, how white people are like. But Hawaii is part of the United States. Can't we just say we feel at home here? Like, no, you can't.

[A]

No. But what. This is what is so crazy. I love the name Kiki. In my film, I named the character I play for one scene, Kiki. I've always. There's a key if you look at everything I've ever written, there's a Kiki. So I get it. I get it. Kiki's a great name, and that is her name. And she ends the book being like, I cannot walk down the hall to see my daughter sometimes. But she says, sometimes my daughter just reaches over and takes my hand when we're sitting on the bed watching tv. And then if I'm lucky, she'll let her eyelids droop. In fact, she's here right now. I'm typing with one hand. My other hand is tight in hers as she sleeps. I am Sadie's mother. I am Kiki. And that's where I leave you.

[B]

That. It did make me cry.

[A]

Yeah, I do.

[B]

I think a lot about Sadie when I was reading this book, and how hard it is to have a parent who has an illness like this at such a crucial time, a parent that can't, like. Like, drive you around and hang with you and your friends. And, like, that's hard.

[A]

But also is giving her so much with this book.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Giving her something to have later to read. That's gonna be so precious. Like, I tell my mom all the time, I'm like, please, like, do voice memos about your life. Like, I want your memoir. Not to even publish it, but just to have.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she has her mom's diary entries. Like, her mistakes, her regrets, her loves, joys. And she also has a podcast, and we. We are hearing from Christina. And, like, I just. I think it's beautiful she wrote this book. Okay. You know what book you'll test.

[B]

Great.

[A]

First question. Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?

[B]

Yes. 100 beyond, beyond.

[A]

Beyond. Beyond. Second question. Was it entertaining to read?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm a no, actually.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's just hard for me.

[B]

It's a hard read.

[A]

I think I'm also in a. You know, I go through phases in life. I'm in a sensitive place, and so it was beautiful to witness her life, which to me is different than, like, I'm being entertained. Like, I felt like I was witnessing something.

[B]

Yes. I think I was entertained in that I couldn't stop.

[A]

Yeah, no, that.

[B]

Absolutely. I really do enjoy reading about people who grew up in Los Angeles. I think, like, it's such an interesting place to grow up, and also, like, I'm looking at it through the lens of raising my daughters here and, like, how there's a lawlessness to growing up here that didn't exist for me in Michigan. And it's like a cautionary tale.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyways. But Just hearing, like, who their friends were and just sort of imagining that, like, one day, one of, like, Goldie's friends could be, like, the biggest pop star in the world is kind of a funny. A funny idea.

[A]

That is really funny. And Goldie is Joe's daughter for everyone listening. Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point. And I never knew this about Christina Applegate date. And often with comedy actresses, you go like, you're having fun. You're having the best time.

[B]

Yeah. And she's pooped some into our TV screens.

[A]

Classic memoir theme of the podcast. She was going through hell. Going through hell to make it happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Final question. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?

[B]

I feel elevated. I feel like, really, Christina Applegate. When this assignment came down the pike, I thought, I don't know why this would be for me. I am so nourished by it and so glad I got to spend time with her and have this appreciation for her.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I have, like, such a deep love for her, and I do. I did feel. We didn't talk about it that much. The redemption arc of her relationship with her father.

[A]

Yeah, funny. I skipped that.

[B]

It's weird. It's weird.

[A]

Whoops. I'm sorry, guys. Jo, please quickly touch on it.

[B]

Well, she goes into a very deep history of the ancestry of her father, and she did one of those ancestry TV shows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like the know your roots.

[A]

That's right. It was a real. It was a 2015.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It shows up in a lot of memoirs. It's like Kerry Washington doing that show is how she quietly finds out she's donor conceived and then.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Doesn't do that show. Yes. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So Christina does it to unpack a lot of her dad's history. And I think it, like, it was really traumatic and sad and gave her a lot of compassion for him and why he needed to leave and go to the coast and why he, like, wasn't ready to be a dad, and then he and their relationship is healed. That story was the thing that made me be like, God, forgiveness is such a profound act. It's like, to me, the most underrated act a person can do, and it's hard to do. And she does it with ease throughout her life, maybe as a result of her trauma. Maybe she would have been that way no matter what. It's really beautiful. And, yeah. So I felt very, like, nourished from getting to learn that about her.

[A]

This is why I love having you on the podcast. This is why I'm having you on every month. Because I think that is. Is the beautiful, brilliant take to have on this book. I think that is correct. And I think I bring. I brought my memoir baggage. But as to if it elevated my life, yes, absolutely. I think she wrote this in hopes to pass on regrets and things she feels bad about that she wants her daughter to change and doesn't want her daughter to carry. And I felt like I took that from the book of, like, I'm not gonna let. Well, I'm gonna try to not let my version of. You're doing it again. You're being weird. Stick with me. Because I can so clearly see in Christina's life she doesn't need to hold onto stuff like that. And she should just feel like so much love and pride and accomplishment. And it's just. And same with the weight stuff where she's like, I don't wanna have these regrets. And I feel like I got all those lessons from her.

[B]

Part of me even like, having listened to the book. But now if you listen to the book, you still have to get your hands on it. Cause you have to see the pictures.

[A]

The pictures. What was your. Let's end with what was your favorite picture?

[B]

I was gonna say, I'm so happy to see that she included the pictures of her getting the star on the walk of Fame because the book starts with her going and walking around the Hollywood Walk of Fame and seeing all these stars and the fact that she grew up here and knew what it was and ended shoeless with her Ms. Like, she. Her feet were uncomfortable that day and she's really showing up as herself. It made me happy to see her highlighting a career accomplishment and owning her career accomplishment, as she should.

[A]

I loved that. Yeah, I loved seeing her as like a punk teenager. Yes. Also seen, like, there's a picture of her and Johnny Depp and she's 16

[B]

years old and he's so hot in that picture.

[A]

Got Joe Feldman.

[B]

Damn. I'm sorry, you guys.

[A]

Joe Feldman. What?

[B]

All right. You can be a good looking poop head.

[A]

And I. Yeah, I just love seeing those pictures of that time in Hollywood and then her caption. She's like a filthy mouth. Like, like in a very fun way. But next to the picture of her, next to her star, she wrote Star Forever. She's very funny.

[B]

She's. Yeah, she's very funny.

[A]

Very funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joe Feldman, what would you like people to do or pay attention to online?

[B]

Oh, goodness. I didn't think about this before. I usually think about it.

[A]

Jo Feldman would like you to go follow the Glamorous Trash podcast account where you will see clips of her on this podcast.

[B]

That's exactly what I was gonna say. Yep, do that. Watch Shrinking on Apple, where Joe is a TV writer.

[A]

A big thank you to our senior Managing Producer, Christina Lopez, our Executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing Associate producer, Dominique Banyas. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and Quince. We will link those incredible brands in the show notes, so go check them out. Everything is always linked in the show notes on Apple. There's also transcripts, and if you ever have questions, go to the Patreon Chat Lounge and I will see you there.