PART TWO: Olivia Nuzzi's memoir: American Canto (with Becca Platsky)

Summary

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Glamorous Trash: A Celebrity Memoir Podcast

PART TWO: Olivia Nuzzi's Memoir "American Canto"

Host: Chelsea Devantez | Guest: Becca Platsky

Release Date: December 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this layered and riotously deconstructed episode, Chelsea Devantez and guest Becca Platsky (of the Corporate Gossip podcast) attempt to unpack Olivia Nuzzi’s highly controversial memoir American Canto. With biting wit and exasperation, they offer a “book club for the worst book ever read” and explore Nuzzi’s professional self-immolation, her tabloid-bait personal life, ethically murky journalism, and a style of memoir-writing that feels like being “slapped cartoonishly from left to right.” Listeners are encouraged to catch up on part one and brace for a discussion that careens through pop culture, journalistic grift, bird metaphors, the RFK Jr. affair, and a memoir that, in Becca’s words, “felt like I was reading someone write down a dream they had—while trapped on a cruise ship.”

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context and Setup for "American Canto"

• Listeners are warned repeatedly: "You must listen to part one to understand this insanity... it should feel like you're being slapped in the face, like a cartoon" (Chelsea, 05:23).
• The book is the output of Nuzzi’s failed co-written political tome with ex-fiancé Ryan Lizza—transformed into a "memoir" seemingly to fulfill a contractual obligation with Simon & Schuster.

2. The Book’s Disastrous Structure and Style

• Both hosts agree, "This was the worst book I've ever read in my life." (Becca, 04:12; Chelsea, 04:22)
• The book reads as a chaotic blend of half-remembered political moments, surreal celebrity encounters, and self-mythologizing tangents: “It’s like being slapped in the face, left then right, again and again.” (Chelsea, 05:23)

3. Olivia Nuzzi’s Career Arc & Motivations

• Vanity Fair hired (and then quietly fired) Nuzzi as their West Coast Editor post-memoir: “It was a vanity title, they say… [but] Olivia Nuzzi is the ultimate drama maker.” (Chelsea, 09:04)
• The timeline reveals her motivations—pivoting from journalism to entertainment after scandal: "Did you just want to be an actor and couldn’t? And this is what we’re forced to deal with so you can be in Hollywood now, which is… exactly what Donald Trump did." (Chelsea, 09:24)

4. Journalistic (and Memoiristic) Ethics Scandal

• The tangled origins of American Canto are dissected: a failed scoop-laden Trump election book, replaced out of desperation with memoir snippets and rushed to meet a million-dollar advance.
• Questions swirl about ethical breaches: “Ryan Lizza says the book had to be ethically put on hold” due to affairs with political subjects (Becca, 11:05).

5. Nuzzi’s Complicated, Sometimes Contradictory Persona

• Nuzzi's personal history: groomed by much older men in journalism, producing "power through seduction" (Chelsea, 29:10).
• The memoir’s opportunism: “She’s an opportunist… there are always opportunities to stomp on other women.” (Chelsea, 27:07)
• Yet, Chelsea repeatedly acknowledges sympathy for Nuzzi’s exploitation and gendered pressures.

6. RFK Jr. Affair and the Kennedy Celebrity Universe

• The RFK Jr. affair is the memoir’s central tabloid engine. Nuzzi styles the relationship with overwrought literary metaphors and odd detachment.
• Notable passage: “He was always showing me photographs of himself as a young man… at the sight of him, I was overcome with a terrible sadness. I could acknowledge that he was beautiful, but I did not want him. What I wanted was to mother him…” (Chelsea reading, 44:18)
• The saga blurs with Nuzzi’s family drama, repeated references to her father, and a fixation on “mothering” damaged men.

7. The Book’s Absurd Cultural Name-Dropping & Character Code-Naming

• Nuzzi bizarrely nicknames figures: “South African Tech Billionaire” (Elon Musk), “the politician” (RFK Jr.), and “the personality” (Charlie Kirk)—while only women are named directly and usually shamed.

8. Birds, Pop Stars, and Whiplash Metaphors

• The memoir lurches from RFK Jr.’s “parrot” energy to Nuzzi’s obsession with Marilyn Monroe, Holly Madison, and Britney Spears, all while denying it:
  • “It’s as if Olivia vaguely knows this is a writing technique, but doesn’t know how to execute it.” (Chelsea, 66:05)
• Recurrent bird and car imagery (her "iconic" white Mustang) are discussed as attempts at crafting a tortured literary persona.

9. Nuzzi’s Voice—Real or Performance?

• Nuzzi’s allegedly natural “sexy Marilyn Monroe baby whisper” is revealed as an affect (71:16), code-switching for men or bosses, much like Elizabeth Holmes.

10. Journalistic Disdain and the Memoir’s Self-Owns

• Nuzzi openly (and paradoxically) rails against journalism: “I do not care about news, and I am not competitive by nature. In truth, I consider news a burden.” (Chelsea quoting, 72:10)

11. Chaotic Anecdotes and Surreal Details

• Examples: Her brother physically lifting her away from a security camera—“Are you Olivia Nuzzi or a sexy baby?” (Chelsea, 60:35)
• Shopping on mushrooms for her infamous Correspondents’ Dinner look; style contradictions, and dress cost trivia ($1,600 for that outfit).

12. Endgame: The Memoir’s Breakdown and Aftermath

• The book closes with drones, hawk metaphors, and spiritual ambiguity: “A line, long and steady. And the line spells out the word of God. And the word says that you are not alone… whether as reassurance or a threat” (Chelsea reading, 90:31).
• Post-script: The episode records pre-Ryan Lizza’s “Part Five” Substack, but Chelsea updates—his narrative remains more coherent, but “capitalizing on the moment.”

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Notable Quotes & Key Timestamps

04:12

"Chelsea, this was the worst book I've ever read in my life."
—Becca Platsky

05:23

"By transforming her book into a coherent story is also a disservice... it should feel like you’re being slapped in the face, like a cartoon."
—Chelsea Devantez

09:24

"Did you just want to be an actor and couldn’t? And this is what we’re forced to deal with… That’s Donald Trump."
—Chelsea

13:12

"Don’t lose sight of the facts that Olivia was really exploited and groomed from a very young age… Both currently profiting off talking about their predatory relationships with this young woman."
—Chelsea

27:07

"I don’t think she hates women. I think it goes back to, she’s an opportunist… She will take all of those opportunities."
—Chelsea

29:10

"She learned early… there’s one angle to power: exploiting my own body before they do it... I wish there was an end goal for it."
—Chelsea

44:18

On RFK Jr. showing her old photos
"At the sight of him I was overcome with a terrible sadness…What I wanted was to mother him…"
—Chelsea (reading from the memoir)

66:05

"It’s as if Olivia vaguely is aware that this is a writing concept, but doesn’t know how to execute it."
—Chelsea

72:10

"I do not care about news, and I am not competitive by nature. In truth, I consider news a burden…"
—Chelsea (reading Nuzzi)

85:20

"I always thought of him as a novel—hundreds of lies that amount to one big truth."
—RFK Jr., quoted by Nuzzi; Chelsea: "That took my breath away. That’s Trump."

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Highlighted Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• 05:56 – Becca describes the post-book malaise and compares reading American Canto to reading “somebody write down a dream they had.”
• 23:09-24:13 – The “rapeable” quote at a DC party, attributed (allegedly) to Uma Thurman as relayed to Nuzzi.
• 30:16-30:45 – The power of gossip, as both subversive tool and dangerous pivot in Nuzzi's hands.
• 47:14 – Parallels between Nuzzi's family and RFK Jr.’s history; the peculiar Oedipal themes.
• 51:01 – Chelsea on Nuzzi’s defense of her ethically compromised reporting: “She’s both saying she knew he wouldn’t understand her advice—and also that the press wouldn’t understand that.”
• 56:13 – Nuzzi’s self-regard: “You are so amazing you can have an affair with the person you’re meant to be covering.” (Chelsea)
• 58:20 – “It’s written specifically for like 10 people. …I don’t give a truly.” (Becca)
• 84:09 – Nuzzi’s attempt to build an iconic visual persona around her white Mustang and “blonde windswept” image.

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The Book Til Test

(Final Segment: 90:57)

1. Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?
"No. A laughable notion." (Chelsea)

2. Was it entertaining to read?
"No. I felt things I haven't felt before while reading a book. Entertainment wouldn't be one of them." (Becca)

3. Did it elevate your life in any way?
"In the sense that it elevated me so far I went down the opposite way and found myself in hell." (Becca)
"Thoughts and prayers don’t work… this book didn’t elevate my life at all." (Chelsea)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [02:13] — Introduction & context; warning to listen to part one
• [04:01] — Opening reactions: "Worst book I've ever read"
• [06:56] — Dissection of the book’s origin story, logline, and structure
• [09:24] — Nuzzi's Vanity Fair firing; career trajectory
• [13:12] — The role of grooming, power imbalances, and gender
• [23:09] — The "rapeable" quote and DC party anecdote
• [27:07] — Opportunism, internalized misogyny, and career moves
• [31:58] — Notes on the 2024 election, RFK Jr., and supporting cast
• [37:28] — Clothing details, attire at major events, and their symbolic value
• [44:18] — The mothering of RFK Jr. and family psychodrama
• [66:05] — Pop culture tangent: Marilyn Monroe, Holly Madison, Britney Spears
• [72:10] — Nuzzi’s disregard for journalism’s competitive ethos
• [85:20] — The "hundreds of lies/one big truth" quote about Trump
• [90:31] — Bizarre, poetic outro; bird/drone metaphor finale
• [90:57] — The "Book Til Test" and final reviews (spoiler: all "no")

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Conclusion & Final Thoughts

Chelsea and Becca deliver a brutal, comprehensive vivisection of American Canto, a book whose chaos, contradictions, and literary delusions are only matched by the tabloid drama it documents. Their analyses illuminate not only Nuzzi’s failings as a memoirist and journalist, but also the dark symbiosis of media, celebrity, and gendered ambition.

Becca’s summary: “I’d rather be tortured primitively.”
Chelsea’s summary: “It definitely put me in a dark place… there’s no hope for us.”

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Additional Resources

• For bonus coverage, comments, and deep dives, visit the Glamorous Trash Patreon.
• Listen to Becca’s Corporate Gossip for page-six style takes on the business world.

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For the Die-Hard Listeners

If you survived this episode, you can survive anything.

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Transcript

[Chelsea Montes]

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[Chelsea Montes]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea Montes. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today we are delivering you part two of Olivia Nuzzi's American Canto Memoir Debacle Saga episode. If you have not listened to part one, you have to. I promise you will not understand and fully enjoy the layers of insanity we are about to unravel unless you listen to part one which is going to give you all of the context for all of the many things we're about to talk about. So make sure you listen to part one first. It is the episode right before this one on the feed called Olivia Newsies gobbledy book. So if you have not listened to that yet, I have warned you. Also, here's your trigger warning for everything. For everything. We're really talking about all of America and American Kanto. So all of the trigger warnings. Now, part one was the origin story and all of the dueling memoir accounts and side characters. Part two, two will attempt to focus entirely on the actual memoir that Olivia wrote called American Canto, published this week, but took years off of my life personally. My guest today is Becca Platsky. She covered Cheryl Hines memoir on this very podcast. So listen, Cheryl Hines is RFK Jr. S wife. RFK Jr. Cheated on Cheryl with Olivia Newsy. So go listen to our Cheryl episode. It's subscribers only sign up on Apple or Patreon, but Becca is the ultimate guest. She is the host of Corporate Gossip, the podcast you and I love. And I've also named her our problematic Girlboss correspondent. So she's back in the saddle for maybe one of the biggest problems of all. Hi, Becca.

[Becca Platsky]

Hi. Oh, my God, I'm so honored to be here.

[Chelsea Montes]

Did the book today ruin your life? Here's the thing. I spoke for an hour about my feelings on the book in part one. So now I must ask you thoughts on the Olivia Newsy gobbledy book.

[Becca Platsky]

Chelsea, this was the worst book I've ever read in my life.

[Chelsea Montes]

I know. And we've read Sheena Shay's memoir.

[Becca Platsky]

I wanted to ask you if it was also the worst book you've ever read in your life.

[Chelsea Montes]

It is the worst book I've read in my life. Please keep in mind I read Ariana Maddox's cocktail book from Bravo. Like this is, and I think also it's definitely the worst book because it was attempting to attempt to cosplay as important. And so your brain would like read important words and be like, maybe there's something important here. Only to realize, like, you've been duped and grifted for 300 pages.

[Becca Platsky]

You know, you mentioned to your listeners in the part one where I was physically when I read this book, which was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, I will mention on a at sequel. So I felt very trapped. I felt that I was in prison with the book, both physically and mentally on the ship and in my mind.

[Chelsea Montes]

Did you take the COVID off or did you let Your fellow passengers know what you were.

[Becca Platsky]

I went, I went, I went full on.

[Chelsea Montes]

Good for you. Hardcore.

[Becca Platsky]

Listen, I'm also married to, I will admit, the man who won second place at the belly flop contest that same day. So I had to be honest.

[Chelsea Montes]

Well, you, you're giving layers to the relationship.

[Becca Platsky]

So.

[Chelsea Montes]

Worst book you've ever read. Yeah, it makes sense. As I was trying to organize everything into a coherent structure for us to discuss, I realized halfway through I was re editing her book and then I was like, okay, I, I don't want to do to listeners what the book did to us. But also by transforming her book into a coherent story is also a disservice to the recap because it should feel like you're being slapped in the face. Like, like a cartoon slap. We slap you to the left, we slap you to the right. We slap you to the left. Like that's what this recap should feel like.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes, I, since getting off the boat, have been feeling, you know, that, that sensation where you're like, am I still on the boat? But it also might be because of this book I felt like I was reading. Somebody write down a dream that they had.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yes, but the dream that you had is also like, has excerpts of like Donald Trump talking about the state of the country we're actually living in. So you don't know like what's real and what's not.

[Becca Platsky]

And then she'd just be like, oh, find a penny, pick it up all day long. You'd have Good luck. Abraham Lincoln.

[Chelsea Montes]

100%. This book, I want to do just a sentence on like maybe the idea, the logline she sold the book on, which is like the state of the American country and her covering Donald Trump and the election and some other people and just sort of like what she's up to lately. And she moved to LA and then the fires happened and she, she moved to Malibu and so the fires are. And then there's a lot of birds. Would you say that's the story?

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, but I think the log line was actually I am financially on the hook for an advance that Simon and Schuster gave me and my ex fiance. And in order to fulfill that contract, I'm gonna take my half of the book copy and paste it, put it in the front of the half of this book and then just take a fuck ton of Adderall and finish the rest in a week.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. Oh, and oopsies. I had an affair with RFK Jr. And I'll give you some of the Worst. Some of the worst romance novel metaphors. Dude, I can't believe you metaphor actually.

[Becca Platsky]

Brought yourself to speak the words aloud. Oh, are you kidding me?

[Chelsea Montes]

You're open mouth awaiting my harvest. That's the caption of everything I post on Instagram now, no matter why to post on Instagram. Caption, you're open mouth away harvest. So let's do a State of the Union before diving in, because you were sending me text messages this morning that were blowing my fucking mind. So Olivia, when the book was coming out, had been named the west coast editor of Vanity Fair. I actually thought that was a fantastic job for her. I grew up reading Vanity Fair at the library and wondering what culture was like and if I'd get there one day. And I hate Graydon Carter because as a 15 year old, I was reading his, like, Letter from the Editor in the front of Vanity Fair every week. That's my only basis for it. I just was like, this man, absolutely not. But what he would do is, like, throw a dinner party throughout life and then kind of like make a magazine from that. And I think Olivia Newsy is the ultimate drama maker. Going to dinner parties and being like, oh, there's not a story this month. I'll make it. Let me talk to that person's husband. So I was sort of like, oh, Vanity Fair gossip culture maker. This is actually where she belongs. I wasn't mad at it. Even though it's technically journalism, she has been let go because everyone read the book and read her ex fiancee subsack. And they were like, hey, wait a minute. You didn't follow any of the journalistic principles. Like, maybe you can't be a journalist anymore. However, we already knew from old deadlines and in her book that she's got her eyes on TV and film. And what I was gonna say on this episode today is like, I. I bet we're about to see, like, a TV and film project from her, only to realize, like, psych, it's already been announced. Like, she's already, like, during the election, she was like, I'm gonna go write tv. Which also makes sense to. As to why she's here in la. She left New York City after, like, the RFK affair and came to la, which is where the book takes place. And now I'm like, oh, because you want to be in Hollywood?

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

I started this journey, like, feeling very soft and a little protective of her and kind of loving the drama where I was like, get a girl. And I've ended this journey being like, God damn it. Did you just want to be an actor and couldn't? And so now this is what we're forced to deal with so that you can be in Hollywood now, which is the exact, exact same. That's Donald Trump. That's Donald Trump couldn't be an actor. So now we're here, and it's just like, I can't do this again.

[Becca Platsky]

Okay. I have three things to say, so please. Vanity Fair thing. I completely agree with you. I think there's a new editor of Vanity Fair that just took over, I think, in June. He and Olivia had met in July, according to sources, from sources familiar, he offered her the position in September, and now they're letting her go at the end of her contract, at the end of this year, according to Page Six, she hadn't actually even been present anywhere in Vanity Fair. It was a vanity title, they say. But again, like, I just read a whole book about Conde Nast and like, that's totally in line with Vanity Fair. That's not like, yeah, she belongs there. I completely agree with you. Okay. The other thing is the timeline, because I think this is important from 2020 to now because I think it's shines a little bit of light on her motivations around all this stuff. Okay, so 2020, her and Ryan Lizza are writing a book about the 2020 election. They start writing this book. Simon and Schuster had given them a book option in 2018, 2021. There are reports that the book is now on ice. They had already given them, I guess, a million dollar advance, so $500,000 each. But Lizza and Newsy were not getting the scoops that they had anticipated. And like, that's.

[Chelsea Montes]

That's the reporting you found? Yes. What, what do you make of that? Next to his substack account of I found out she was having an affair with Mark Sanford and the book had to be ethically put on hold. Do you think that's the lie or do you think we're not getting the scoops? Is the lie.

[Becca Platsky]

I think that she started an affair with Mark Sanford as a way to get the scoops that the publisher was pushing them for.

[Chelsea Montes]

Interesting. But then didn't. Then Ryan was like, you had the affair, book canceled because he supposedly calls up the publisher and is like, we have a huge problem.

[Becca Platsky]

Well, that's what's confusing to me. Like, I think that there's multiple motivations. Like, I do think there's an element here of, like, Ryan Lizza is jealous of Olivia Newsy. Like, she's much younger than him. She was what he was, Right? He was this wonderkind. He was, you know, early. I think it was in New York Times, right, political wunderkind that everybody wanted a piece of. And now she is that.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yes, entirely. And in part because he groomed her, he raised her, he was a boyfriend, but he's 20 years older than her. And we're really going to be talking about her memoir, this episode. So all of her qualities are going to take center stage. I just don't want anyone listening to lose sight of the facts that Olivia was really exploited and groomed from a very young age. First by Keith Olbermann, then by Ryan Lizza, 30 and 20 years older than her. These older men having a predatory relationship with her as they also walk her into this journalistic career. Or maybe they don't like who's to say what they gave or did not give her because they are also both currently profiting off of talking about their predatory relationships with this very young woman. So even though we're going to focus on Olivia, like, don't lose sight of the fact of some really horrible shit she went through and these men who used her then and are using her now. So of course, Ryan taught her to be like him as a journalist because he was. He was boyfriend raising her and making her into his image, I'm sure.

[Becca Platsky]

But then I think he has extreme jealousy, not only because maybe, you know, infidelity, which she also alleges that he had an affair with somebody. In this book, they both seem like.

[Chelsea Montes]

People who were like, we love each other, but like, obviously we're fucking other people for our fun journalism life.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. But I think he also has a lot of that jealousy. And so she alleges in court filings that she had, you know, in a restraining order put against him. At one point in 2024, she alleges that he outed her affair with RFK Jr. To get revenge on her career, not their relationship, but her career to pull her down. So that's 2021. The book is on ice. Either because of the Mark Sanford revelations.

[Chelsea Montes]

Or because of it's not good enough. They don't have it. Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

Or because it's not good enough. The question I have about the Mark Sanford thing is then wouldn't somebody at Simon and Schuster tell New York Magazine, that's what I don't understand either. Okay, so then, 2022, she's thinking about doing a screenplay. 2023, she meets RFK Jr 2024, the affair comes out. 2025, she writes this book.

[Chelsea Montes]

But the book is from the very first book deal, or this is a second book.

[Becca Platsky]

I think there was only one book deal. The whole time I had only ever heard of a 22, which is why I thought it was so strange. I'm like, why is Simon and Schuster wanting to publish an account of the 2020 election? Even in 2024, nobody gives a shit anymore. Like, Fire and Fury was already out. The Bob Woodward book was already out. Like, who cares? Like, well.

[Chelsea Montes]

And yeah. And this is American Canto is the Simon and Schuster book.

[Becca Platsky]

Yep. Same imprint that they were going to have.

[Chelsea Montes]

The thing I read was like, yeah, the advance had been given. A book needed to be turned in. Olivia turns it in to American Canto. Ryan Lizza says, I found out the book we were supposed to be writing. She had just decided was going to be a memoir. So who knows where the truth is? Okay, I want to start with the author's note. I just going to read a little part about it. It is a book about life in America as I have lived and observed it, and about the nature of our reality and about character, his and my own. His is Trump. His and my own and that of the country he is so affected. It is also a book about love because everything is about love and about love of country. I said, oh, my God, this is a blowjob to America. Calling back to, like, uncle Sam needs you. This is some old school propaganda. And we know her as a liberal. She's written for liberal magazines. And yet I actually don't think she holds, like, right versus left, Democrat versus Republican values. I think she's very clearly an opportunist. Yeah, she was partying with the proud boys to, like, get a Scoop back in 2020. But also, like, was she just partying with them? She befriended House inhabit rfk. I just think, like, we're about to watch a wild pivot to the mainstream media. Doesn't get me.

[Becca Platsky]

She talks about Charlie Kirk in here pretty favorably. Yeah, I think you're right. But I mean, we talked about this in the Cheryl Hines episode. Her and RFK are very similar in that way. They don't have actual values. Their values are, I want attention, period.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. I like it when people come up.

[Becca Platsky]

To me at the airport and tell me what a good job I'm doing. And I think right wing. Oh, my God. Chelsea. She's Kimberly Guilfoyle.

[Chelsea Montes]

Oh, my God. Where she, like, was married to Gavin Newsom, liberal, and then was like, never mind.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, yeah. I think she's about to do A very dangerous, conservative feminist dance that I, like, don't want to see. Yeah. Again, like, I feel very mad at her today. When I recorded part one, I really did feel for her, and I still do in that she's been through so much, and she's been in these horrible power dynamics with men from a very young age. And so then who knows what her childhood was like. And so I really do feel for that and the way she's been exploited and piled on by the media, even though she did wrong. However, now just focusing on the book, I'm actually very afraid for what she's bringing us. Some, like, twisted, conservative victim. Not victim feminism.

[Becca Platsky]

I mean, on the one hand, I think she's Sheena Shay of American news media right now.

[Chelsea Montes]

Like, please tell us more. For everyone listening, tell us the Gina Shea theory.

[Becca Platsky]

On top of the fact that she is sexy, baby, I have a feeling they spoke in a very similar manner. Having affairs with older married men.

[Chelsea Montes]

Pop star.

[Becca Platsky]

I listened to Jail bait. Not as catchy, as good as gold. That's right. Sheena Shay also notably got her degree in communications and wanted to be a newscaster. So, wow.

[Chelsea Montes]

You know, it just ends up where you end up. Like, wherever the attention is is where I go. And Sheena Shay's fame was built from an affair. And Olivia Newsy's fame is built for, like, she was obviously, like, within D and and journalism. Like, she was known. But I would say she's all over places now because of the RFK Fair. Okay, so from page one to page two, I just want to call out some things, and then I have started categorizing the book. Becca, get ready. Okay? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back. So growing up, my mom t. Mom Z always taught me that cashmere was the most luxury bougie fabric. And you should always buy cashmere. And so a few years ago, this cashmere jumpsuit online, and it was super affordable, and I bought it for my mom for Christmas. And that jumpsuit was from Quince. Long before I was doing this ad, I was buying cashmere from Quince because it is such good quality. It's such a good price, and my mom is here to attest that that jumpsuit is still going strong. Quince has something for everyone. Soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $50 that look like designer pieces. They have Italian wool coats. Every piece is made with premium materials from ethical, trusted factories and price far lower than what other luxury brands charge. So it was very up my Alley. Fine. Gifts so good you'll want to keep them with Quince. Go to Quince.comGlamorous for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.comGlamorous to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comGlamorous Jason Disney asked me to do this podcast thing.

[Becca Platsky]

I need some advice.

[Chelsea Montes]

You've got to have Banger Getz Walker.

[Becca Platsky]

And Leah, Daniel Deemer, Tim Simons, Adam Coveland.

[Chelsea Montes]

You're the one asking the questions.

[Becca Platsky]

How? Why?

[Chelsea Montes]

They better answer. I don't know anything epic. This season is just make a quest.

[Becca Platsky]

I'm Arian Samadry. Welcome to the Percy Jackson and the Olympians official podcast. Available wherever you get your podcasts. And watch the season two of Percy Jackson, streaming now on Disney and Hulu. Learn [e-mail] whatson.

[Chelsea Montes]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. Page one she starts on the steps of the Met the politician on the phone. You didn't do anything wrong, he said. The politician is RFK Jr. If we got married, it still wouldn't be wrong, he said. My aunt married my uncle after she interviewed him. This was different. I said. For one thing, I was not Jacqueline Bouvier and he was not John F. Kennedy. For another, he was already married and I had been engaged several weeks earlier. And I was like, okay, we're obsessed with the Kennedy name. Yeah, she just loves like, wait, what am I? Jacqueline Bovier? Stop. Then a couple paragraphs later, I walked past the place where I was born. It had been a blizzard. My mother always told me the date would later become shorthand for the occasion of that riot at the Capitol, over which more than a thousand people were arrested, for which the president was indicted by a grand jury in the District of Columbia and charged with conspiring to defraud the United States and obstruct an official proceeding. So she was born on January six, which is so funny because Hilaria Baldwin, also January six baby. You know who also is a January six baby? Eric Trump. So, and I just thank the Instagram comments for alerting me to all of these January six babies. At this point, I said, astrology is real. Astrology is real. I have to look up the astrological going ons of January 6th. But then they were like, whatever I found on the Internet was like, they're just very soft Capricorns. And I was like, this can't be Right. Astrology is not real.

[Becca Platsky]

So they are Capricorns.

[Chelsea Montes]

Hard workers.

[Becca Platsky]

I'll give them that. And same with Sheena Shay.

[Chelsea Montes]

Same with Hilaria. She keeps posting content. Oh my God.

[Becca Platsky]

These people keep working, so I'll give them that.

[Chelsea Montes]

Listen, here's the thing. If you are an astrologist out there and you are a cookie, please get in the comments. Explain this birthday to me. If you were born on January 6, please get in the comments and say, I am a good person. January 6th does not stand for all of us. Don't worry.

[Becca Platsky]

Don't worry.

[Chelsea Montes]

These are just three. Three bad.

[Becca Platsky]

I'm just an honest, hardworking grifter.

[Chelsea Montes]

My God. Okay, so the very first thing I want to talk about is on page 102, and it's something I still can't stop thinking about. I'm going to read it to you. She's at a party in Washington. I believe it's 2025, early 2025, as she's writing this. But there's no way to know because she's buried all logic, she said. The executive draped his arm over my shoulder. He wore the distinct smile of a man dumbfounded to be dating a movie star, and the distinct confidence that accompanies such luck. You're so fun, he told me. The movie star by now was holding the cicada aloft, marveling at how it glowed in the moonlight. Do you like to have fun? The executive asked. I did not think that I would like to have fun in the manner of subtext his tone suggested. And so I laughed, the kind of laugh that means no, but registers no sound of rejection. Ahahaha. Later, in the kitchen, I stood with Maureen Dowd, which is the safest place to stand in America. Unless you are a fraud, in which case it is the most perilous. The movie star, not a fraud at all. In fact, in a shock of honesty in this weird little town, approached and grabbed my face. Quote Olivia, the secret to life is to be rapeable, she told me.

[Becca Platsky]

You are rapeable.

[Chelsea Montes]

What a paragraph.

[Becca Platsky]

And so allegedly, this movie star is Uma Thurman.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yes, that's what everyone is saying. But do we have concrete evidence that this is Uma? The idea that she's dating an executive and could have been at this Washington party.

[Becca Platsky]

Party with Maureen Dowd.

[Chelsea Montes]

So to go back to it, let's yeah, everyone is saying it's Uma Thurman. Her husband. Her husband is asking Olivia to be their third in the middle of this garbage. I love the sentence I laughed. The kind of Laugh that means no, but registers no sound of rejection. Gorgeous. Everything around it stabbing my eyes.

[Becca Platsky]

She does have. And you put this in, in part one. She's got some great lines in here.

[Chelsea Montes]

Got some great lines. But then, like this, this entire paragraph is like, what's happening? Maureen Dowd is the safest place in America. What psychopath would say that about the woman who has written the most about hating other women under the guise of being a good liberal feminist? Right.

[Becca Platsky]

For your listeners, Maureen Dowd and Monica Lewinsky are, you know, often uttered in the same sentence. She wrote a lot about Monica Lewinsky.

[Chelsea Montes]

And will you tell everyone, like, what her point of view on Monica, like when we look back at the past and we're like, oh, my God, Monica Lewinsky, that 20, 22 and 24 year old poor girl going through it, who was at the helm of all that criticism, Right?

[Becca Platsky]

And so from what I understand, yeah, people now in retrospect kind of are like, yes, that writing was incredibly sexist and misogynistic. And she contributed, I think, to a lot of the hate, and I really mean hate, that Monica Wolinsky was getting at the time.

[Chelsea Montes]

I mean, like, also she hated Hillary Clinton and obviously a lot of people did. What's specific about Maureen Dowd? And again, at 15 years old, in my shittown in America, I was reading Vanity Fair, I was reading Maureen Dowd, her lens on these women in politics. Like, that went into my brain as like, oh, my God, there are good women. They're fucking sluts. And the reason why that stuck is because Maureen dad was a woman and was like, I am a woman. It's okay for us to call these stupid slut whores nasty. And it gave a lot of permission and a lot of directive to women to do the same.

[Becca Platsky]

So this paragraph specifically is very fascinating to me and it sucks that Olivia wasn't able to make these connections herself. But Olivia Nutzy was called a slut bag, famously by Anthony Weiner's chief of staff, when she came out and said when she was 20, she was working as an intern for Anthony. Or no, sorry, she wasn't working as an intern, but she did a story for the Daily Beast about the treatment of interns on the Anthony Weiner campaign.

[Chelsea Montes]

But she did. She had worked on the.

[Becca Platsky]

She was working, okay, she had then.

[Chelsea Montes]

Left and sold that story to the Daily Beast. And then that's why Anthony Weiner's chief of staff calls her a slut bag.

[Becca Platsky]

And she ended up getting an apology for that or whatever.

[Chelsea Montes]

But I think now they're friends.

[Becca Platsky]

Sure. But I think it's so interesting that she's now saying, oh, I love to be next to the warm body of Maureen Dowd, who makes me feel so comforted.

[Chelsea Montes]

Oh. And what's crazy is that she says it's the safest place to stand in America unless you're a fraud. But, like, Olivia, you are a fraud. I know you are the definition of a journalistic fraud. So it's like you're really trying to overtly paint a picture of, like, I can't be a fraud. I'm standing next to Maureen, and she would filet me. And then on Olivia's Instagram, I don't know. Someone sent it to me. But it was recent. She posted about how her book launch is going, and multiple times is like, monica Lewinsky has reached out to me. Yeah, Monica Lewinsky, who was ruined by Maureen Dowd. But Maureen Dowd's your best friend. But now that Monica Lewinsky wants to stand by your side, you're, like, using her name for clout on your Instagram of like, she's going to stand by me.

[Becca Platsky]

This is where I'm like, I don't understand Olivia's point of view. I do think there's a part of her that does hate women. I do think she either hates women or there's something.

[Chelsea Montes]

I don't think she hates women. I think it goes back to, she's an opportunist, and there are always opportunities to stomp on other women. That will get you, as a woman, more attention.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

And she will take all of those opportunities. I think it's like, if Monica Lindsay is like, hey, girl. Hey, bestie. Come on my podcast. Olivia is there. If Morning Dowd is like, hey, let's hold a festival calling Monica Winski a slut again, she'd be like, I'll be there. I'll be the keynote. I don't think there's values either way.

[Becca Platsky]

What do you think about just, like, the way that she views sexuality and her sexuality. This is another element, too, where it's just like, she produced a song when she was 16 about seducing older men.

[Chelsea Montes]

They call me Jail Pain.

[Becca Platsky]

What do you have to like? What is your mindset at that time? Assuming she wrote it when she was 15, like, that is very clearly in the forefront of her mind is like, I can use my sexual sexuality to get like that.

[Chelsea Montes]

That's the part of me that likes her. Because she learned early. Our world is, there's one angle to power. It's exploiting my own body before they do it. And I'm gonna do it all across D.C. to get a scoop. And to that I say go for it. I wish there was an end goal for it. I wish she was like, I'm gonna do this so that I can reveal the truth about blah, blah, or tell a story or, like, bring the whatever. And instead it's just sort of like for fun.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah. For attention. For attention. That's the sad part. Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

And to be clear, I am framing this as her choice in a world where women have been given no choices. Like, it's clear in our culture, women will be degraded and erased. But one tiny, misogynistic way we'll let you pretend to escape and have some power and claim something for yourself is if you please us with your sexuality. But I think she knows that it's power and it's one of her best tools. And, like, it's a tool she's using well, too. Because I love when women who don't exactly fit the stereotype of what exact beauty looks like still wield the power in its fullest scope. Mae west, right? Mae west is like, I am the hottest, sexiest thing when make sexual jokes. I'm going to, like, use all my sexuality as power. But, like, you wouldn't look at Mae west and be like, the great beauty of whatever she just told you, I'm fucking hot. And everyone went, okay. I think that's very interesting to me. It's such a powerful way to take beauty that has been gendered and use it as a tool, regardless of what men think that tool should be for. That's probably way we're in way too deep. But that is the part of me that likely to be. I'm like, go for it. Dye your hair blonde and like, live your best life. I just don't like what she's doing with it.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, well, that's why I'm saying it's too bad that she's go. We assume that she's going to move, if she does move into the right wing manosphere, because she's playing right into their hand.

[Chelsea Montes]

Like, well, yeah, and we just saw you. What you sent me today is still breaking my brain, which is. It's a teaser of her and House inhabit talking about, like, the importance of gossip, which, like, at one point was like, such a. You know, we're talking about, like, sewing circles and ways that women, like, had power and, like, shared information way back when we weren't allowed to. And now you have women today being like, gossip's actually, like, really important and cool. And you're like, no, you guys are. Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

I mean, look, I'm on that train. I have a podcast called Corporate Gossip because I believe, like, in my heart in the power of gossip.

[Chelsea Montes]

But like, yeah, but when you see Olivia being like, today we talk about gossip with House Inhabit, who was literally just calling her big boned Meryl Streep on her Instagram stories last year.

[Becca Platsky]

I think you're completely right. I think any opportunity she has to get in front of the camera, she will take. Any opportunity she has to get attention, she'll take. And oh God, yeah, it really is too bad because this book aside, she is incredibly talented.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, she could be. I am still secretly hoping that she's like, surprise. I had something incredible planned all along. All right, let's go into the rfk junior. I pulled all of the instances from the book that felt worthy of talking about. So she wrote this later in the summer, the politician spent many of those remaining days in court where he was fighting efforts to exclude him from state ballots. When he emerged, it was often to bad news, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He updated me as he got undressed, she said. The politician laughed as he told me about this. His feud with the woman funding the campaign and with whom he shared a ticket had become a more frequent drama. On a recent call, she had berated him. He said, quote, screaming like a banshee. She was, quote, a piece of work, he said, shaking his head. He said that he had been warned about her by the South African tech billionaire Elon Musk, with whom she had reportedly had a drug fueled sexual encounter while she was married to a different tech billionaire. But by the time he received the call that informed him that she was crazy, it was too late. The deal was already done. Now her antics had the effect of forcing his hand, compelling him to make a public decision about whether to remain a candidate when he was not yet prepared to do so, even privately. What's happening, Becca?

[Becca Platsky]

So, okay, so that's Nicole Shanahan. She came up in an episode we did on actually 23andMe, because the founder of 23andMe was married with Sergey Brin, with whom Nicole Shanahan was married and then had an affair with Elon Musk. They were on ketamine one night at a house party and they, you know, one thing led to another. The funny part about that story is to ask for forgiveness. Elon Musk got down on both knees in front of Sergey Brin, which I've never seen a man do, to ask for Forgiveness generally, don't you get on one knee? Anyway, so all that to say, all that information about Nicole Shanahan, her behavior, the ketamine, whatever, was in a report in the Wall street journal in 2022, over a year before RFK announced that she was going to be his running mate. She had a lot of money because she had divorced Sergey Brin and she was actually the one. Do you Remember Super Bowl 2024, 2023, the Kennedy Advertisement that used. Okay, there was like this famous advertisement during the Super Bowl. It was like a vintage Bobby Kennedy advertisement that they repurposed to.

[Chelsea Montes]

Right, yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

Nicole Shanahan paid for that. And that's where she got into.

[Chelsea Montes]

Olivia is like, oh, my God. He had no idea that all this stuff happened. It was crazy. You're saying he's known since 2022. That should only.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, maybe he didn't. But I assume he has campaign staff who can look into this. Who can.

[Chelsea Montes]

Or he has Google.

[Becca Platsky]

There were.

[Chelsea Montes]

Google her name. He could Google her.

[Becca Platsky]

He was also thinking. I mean, if you think about the other people he wanted on his campaign, it was Aaron Rodgers and wwe, former Minnesota governor, who she also mentions in her book. She calls him the wrestler turned politician, Jesse Ventura.

[Chelsea Montes]

Okay, thank you for all these names. Because I was like, she uses code names for everyone, which is so ridiculous. Obviously, you know, the South African tech billionaire is Elon Musk. So you're not even getting out of a defamation case at that point because you are naming him, so why not just use his name? What you said is so much information and so much to take in. Why not write it the way you said it? She's either the worst fucking writer in the world or she's obfuscating literally everything. But, like, to what end? Okay, we're gonna take a quick break right now, and we'll be right back.

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[Chelsea Montes]

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[Chelsea Montes]

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[Becca Platsky]

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[Chelsea Montes]

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[Becca Platsky]

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[Chelsea Montes]

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[Chelsea Montes]

Book your trip without worry. Learn [e-mail] online protection. Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation later on this page. This was the part I understood and really got to Becca. She said he was exhausted and threw himself onto the bed. This is rfk, his pink shirt unbuttoned, revealing my favorite parts of his chest, his tire tube of a testosterone injected chest, and his blue tie still tied loose around his neck. Okay, so she's talking about the tie and the color blue and what he's wearing. And then here's where I just want to call back to Ryan Liza's substack where he supposedly published a memo that she had written to RFK Jr. And this memo that she had written to him was kind of like a political strategy memo, which again, would be horrifying if she is supposed to be an unbiased journalist covering him, but is instead doing campaign strategy. And so when Ryan Lizza publishes stuff like this, you have to wonder where or how he got it and if it's okay for him to publish it and if it's real. And I'm bringing up that he published this memo because with this part of the book with her talking about the tie, I think it does say that the memo he published is real. And I'm going to read from that alleged memo. Now, she wrote, quote, not to be all Naomi Wolf advising Al Gore, but I would wear a blue. Unlike Gore, you are a summer suit and your standard thin tie so that those clips achieve the same thing aesthetically that your actual presence at the debate would achieve in terms of signaling both plausibility and a contrast. Well, also, you are a summer. You did the color wheel on RFK Jr. You did. Is he a spring, fall, or summer? And you were like, you're a summer wear blue. But I will say that memo being posted on substack and her writing this in the book to me says that memo is real and true.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah. The interesting part to me about this is, so I asked the man who won second place in the belly flop contest, which is where I'm not calling.

[Chelsea Montes]

My husband, are you using Olivia Newsy style to talk about your life? Yes. The man who won second place in the belly flop contest, I asked him about this.

[Becca Platsky]

I was like, okay, because this didn't make sense to me. You're unbuttoning your shirt while you still have your tie on. Don't you normally untie the tie and then unbutton your shirt? And he said you would only ever do that if you were up drunk.

[Chelsea Montes]

Oh.

[Becca Platsky]

So I thought that was.

[Chelsea Montes]

That does make sense because that is a weird visual, right? Of, like, his tie is loose, but, like, he's like. Like, here, look at the middle of my barrel chest.

[Becca Platsky]

Right.

[Chelsea Montes]

That definitely has gotten up from all the steroids I've been injecting.

[Becca Platsky]

She also, like, she never says in this book that they actually had sex.

[Chelsea Montes]

No. Then that's the thing they've both said and Wright and Lizza has said. It was never consummated. It was all digital, which is honestly sad. Each other.

[Becca Platsky]

But she's in a bed with him with his shirt on. That's like, there's certain things in here that confuse me.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, yeah, great point. Unless this was a video call. Listen, I don't know.

[Becca Platsky]

It's.

[Chelsea Montes]

It's all written so unclearly. Okay, now I want to read something else. So then on page 33, she's telling RFK that they can't be seen together. And the reason why they can't be seen together reveals a skill she says Donald Trump has. And I said, Donald Trump has a skill. One skill. I actually read this, and I believed it. So tell me what you think. The President was more adept at reading people and dynamics than was possible to understand at a distance. He conducted and processed all human energy around him. The man who appeared among Earth's least sensitive and hypersensitive to the primal homo sapien frequency, imperceptible to those tuned only to the modern social diminished. What he determined to do with the information he downloaded left the impression that his was a variety of egocentrism. Unconcerned with others, he was, in fact, very concerned with others, needed others more than he needed anything, could not perform the work he performed, which was the work of performing without access to others. I had seen it, had studied it, was sure that his powers ought to not be underestimated. My concern was educated. With one scan, he might clock our energy with total precision. This was not the sort of information I wanted the President to have. So I don't know if I'm eating the slop she's throwing, but given how obsessed he is with other people and how he, like, meets Mom, Donnie as like, I want to be cool, too. This does read as his only skill to me, reading Energy and also cutting people down. Like calling one journalist a piggy. Or call, like, he's just reading people's energy and manipulating them, like the biggest bully on the block. What did you think?

[Becca Platsky]

I totally believe that. I mean, most people say when they meet Trump, they're like, he's shockingly charismatic.

[Chelsea Montes]

Charismatic.

[Becca Platsky]

So impossible.

[Chelsea Montes]

That's impossible.

[Becca Platsky]

But he did come up in the New York City, like, social scene that requires a lot of.

[Chelsea Montes]

But this reminds me of both Fyre Festival documentaries where I don't remember the guy's name who pulled the main grift, but Billy McFarland.

[Becca Platsky]

He's back, by the way.

[Chelsea Montes]

Of course he is. But everyone in the documentary is like, billy could convince you of anything. Like, he was the most charismatic guy. And then Billy comes on camera and you're like, what?

[Becca Platsky]

What?

[Chelsea Montes]

Like is over 6ft tall just make you all idiots. Like, that is not a charismatic man. He's not talking in any special way. He just a boy over 6ft tall saying something. And a bunch of people were like, you got it, Billy. That's what Trump is. It's like, you are big, you are mean, and everyone goes, wowzy, wowzy.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, I, I don't know. I, I. The only reason I, I do think that she has something is because people have noted that before, and I think there's no diagram over here, like, with it. Yeah, yeah. We're. We're like, it just doesn't translate. On TV, you said you were on because there is another 133. 133. Okay, never mind. Because there's this other quote that I wanted to point out where she talks about Trump's hands being so soft, they're almost wet.

[Chelsea Montes]

An important detail. All right, we have so much to get through. Let me start to just fucking power pound some RFK Jr stuff, and we'll talk about it as a whole. RFK Jr, like, has his first rally, and he's like, oh, there's so many people. Oh, wow. Oh, God. And I was like, oh, my God. Our rally's hand jobs. Is every rally a handjob? As I said earlier, she puts quotes in the book that actually give the most information. On that same page, she quoted Jane Birkin, who said, when I was little, I had a parrot who bit everyone but me. He loved me because I dared to tickle him under his wings. Everyone said, how can you love that awful parrot? I thought, he's adorable, but I don't want others to know. It was my secret. And I said, lol, Bobby, the Parrot. This is her explaining why she likes.

[Becca Platsky]

RFK Jr. You know what's crazy about that quote, too? I have heard that you are never supposed to touch a bird or a parrot under their wings because it makes them horny. I'm not kidding. It makes them horny. And there's no. Like, you basically give it.

[Chelsea Montes]

So Jane Bergen was getting the bird.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes.

[Chelsea Montes]

Olivia was like, that's what I do to rfk. True.

[Becca Platsky]

But that's what I'm saying.

[Chelsea Montes]

Like how there's a lot of bird in this book and we're gonna get to even more. I can't believe that that guy. It's like.

[Becca Platsky]

It's like notably animal beauty abuse if you do that. Like, they're abuse because it doesn't actually get them off. It just makes them super horny and aggressive.

[Chelsea Montes]

Okay. Any birders out there? That's what I've heard.

[Becca Platsky]

That's what I've heard. But I think that's really interesting just in terms of, you know.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, that's psychotic. And also maps even better. To Olivia and RFK.

[Becca Platsky]

And RFK. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

All right. On page 145, this was the excerpt that was in Vanity Fair. So I won't read the whole of it, but she talks about, like, I did not like to think about the worm in his brain that other people found so funny. I loved his brain. I hated the idea of an intruder therein. Others thought he was a madman. He was not quite mad in the way they thought. Like, okay. And then she says, lone wolves. Each of us. We're each lone wolves. And then below on the page, she's like, blah, blah, blah. There was always something about a boat. So parrots, boats, lone wolves and worms all in one page. But we're. But we're in love. Let me go to the next part. All right. One night I was in the back of the Bowery as RFK Jr. I'm giving names when she doesn't. So just know when I say a name, it's me adding. It showed a photograph of himself as a young man. He was always showing me photographs of himself as a young man. A reminder for himself as much for me that he had once been young, I imagine around her age and not the 70 year old man that was trying to puck her in the booth at the Bowery as well as an expression that he did not appreciate that I liked him just as he was right now, as I knew him, not as he registered as an idea here mounted on the back of a bull, his hair long, gross. His Chest bare, a cigarette dangling from his lips. At this sight of him, I was overcome with a terrible sadness. I could acknowledge that he was beautiful, but I did not want him. What I wanted was to mother him, to protect him from himself, from the world. What I wanted was to mother him, even as mothering him would keep me from forever knowing the man forged from that boy's pain. You made the 70 year old man trying to a 30 year old while he was still married. Had you mothered him correctly, he wouldn't be trying to stick his penis in you right now.

[Becca Platsky]

So, okay, this part I have so many thoughts on because. Okay, let's just start with. She has dated multiple men who are decades older than her. This is probably not the first time that she's seen pictures of, you know, like, this is probably something that they do. I used to be hot like you too. And she probably knows at this point exactly what to say to, you know, pad their ego and make them feel better. Oh, you're just as hot as you were then. So that part is really interesting, the mothering part of it all. There are times in this book where she describes the similarities between RFK Jr and her own father. And one of the ways she does that is by saying they both were in relationships with bipolar women who were alcoholics and manipulative. And you probably have the exact quote, but at one point she says about her dad, I wanted so badly for him to be loved as he loved or just to be cared for. And that kind of reminded me of what she said about RFK Jr. I want to mother him. So it's like what she did is up for multiple reasons, but I do think there's definitely like an actual connection, some type of trauma that she's trying to work through where she's trying to either like be the wife her dad never had. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but there's so many similarities between RFK. Not only RFK Jr and her dad, but also Mary Richardson and her mom.

[Chelsea Montes]

And Mary Richardson is the wife who allegedly died by suicide of RFK Jr. Yeah, yeah. And, and I think what is especially fascinating is that it's very clear in the book. She loves her daddy. Oh my God, I just said daddy for her. Oh, loves her daddy. Has written pieces calling him the love of her life. Hates her mom. Very clear.

[Becca Platsky]

Hates mom.

[Chelsea Montes]

Her mom is also since passively, she hate her mom. And I think the one to one of the way that's showing up in these affairs is like laughable, like where you don't want Freudian truth to be true psychology. And then you read a book like this, you're like, yeah, I guess it is just an exact mapping because you also found photos somehow, Becca, you researched genius of her mom and dad. And you can absolutely see what you're saying in that mapping as well of looking very similar.

[Becca Platsky]

Right. And so if, if, I guess if your listeners didn't listen to the episode on, on Cheryl Hines, we talked about one of RFK Jr's ex wives, Mary Richardson, who died by suicide. Many people say that, you know, he actually led to her death. But either way, she was demonized. Definitely had alcohol problems and. Yeah. And if you look at pictures of them, you can see that her mom and Mary Richardson look. Look very similar.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, I think, yeah, it's so odd. All right, moving on. Just because there's so much to get to. There's a section where she talks about the politician still doing psychedelics for fun and who knows if he still does drugs. And I know Ryan Liz is like, there's word that RFK Jr. While working for the government is still doing drugs. And I don't care about any of this. This obviously. Have you ever had eyes on the person? Like, this is not a scoop. Like, yes, they all do drugs. Like, who cares? I don't care about that part. But yeah, it's part of the book where she's like, I think maybe he's still doing drugs. And Ryan Liz is like, she's covering up that he still does drugs even though she could report on it. Whatever. She then gets into the part where the affair is coming out and Cheryl Hines is finding out. And there's two quotes I want to read. He was frantic as he launched into an explanation for a trivial absence. I cut him off.

[Becca Platsky]

Off.

[Chelsea Montes]

You don't have anything to apologize for and you don't need to explain anything. I said. He paused. Oh, he said he sounded shocked. I had the thought that women were probably mad at him a lot then, as though he could not stop himself or could not accept that I was not mad at him. He continued on with his explanation, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, oh, she's a cool girl. Yes, it's the gone girl. It's the gone girl. No, I'm cool. I'm not mad.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, no, she's. I mean, I hate. It's so trite, but it really is. Pick me up. I think there's elements of that throughout this entire book.

[Chelsea Montes]

He's got a type. Because Cheryl Hines wrote in her book, again, please Listen to that episode. Sign up, Support the podcast that she was like, when I got the news that he was having an affair, I didn't care at all. It's pretty chill. I'm in Milan. I don't care. Could care less. Yeah, I just, like, slowly made way home and then we just, like, talked for hours and, like, made it better and, like, it didn't matter to me. This is what Olivia writes already. His wife had told him she would not be seen with him until after the election. Now she was in Milan reading the news, hysterical. So Cheryl's like, I didn't care. And Olivia's like, she was hysterical. Like, right, Everybody lying. But, like, yeah, likely she was hysterical. This is psychotic.

[Becca Platsky]

You know, it's funny because Olivia doesn't even mention, too, that the politician had reportedly been having several other affairs at this time.

[Chelsea Montes]

And the politician is RFK Jr.

[Becca Platsky]

Right. There's just so much missing here. What do you think? Which one do you think is true? Do you think Cheryl didn't care, or do you think she was hysterical?

[Chelsea Montes]

Hysterical, Yeah. I think she probably was like, listen, Cheryl was an affair that RFK Jr. Was having on Mary Richardson, allegedly. Cheryl probably knows he's having affairs. The fact that one hit the press is probably what made things hysterical. Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

We didn't talk about this in the last episode, but There are page 6 paparazzi photos of Cheryl Hines specifically out without her ring.

[Chelsea Montes]

Like, as if to, you know, signal.

[Becca Platsky]

To signal that she didn't mean it.

[Chelsea Montes]

All and backtracked on with it. Exactly. So she talks about how the decision to, like, leak this news, which we'll get to in a second, of who did it, was designed to fuck her professionally. And then she said, among the communications that were related to get her fired, there was an exchange in which I had told RFK Jr. Quote, I know you'll make the best decision for the country. I love you. And then she also talked about how she constantly gave him strategy and tips. But then in the book was like. But I knew the nuance of what I was saying would not translate. I knew how such details would be reported or interpreted in the public discourse or by the lawyers hired to interrogate me. And basically, what I think Olivia is saying here is that she's trying to defend the fact that fact that she gave RFK Jr. A bunch of political strategy ideas. She is both saying that she knew he wouldn't really understand the nuance of what she was saying and use her strategy ideas wrong. And also that the press would not understand that she knew that when she was telling him, he wasn't even going to get it. Therefore, it's not like she gave him real strategy anyway. But the press would never get that nuance. For example, Ryan Liza said that Olivia had gotten the dead bear scoop on RFK Jr his weird dalliance with the bear in Central Park. And instead of publishing that scoop herself and making great journalism from it, she instead told RFK Jr about it and how to kill the story. And then he outed the story himself to Roseanne Barr, as we discussed, as a way to get ahead of the story actually being printed, which could have been Olivia's scoop, but she wanted to protect him more.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes.

[Chelsea Montes]

And basically this thing with the bear, this thing about her correspondence saying I love you and blah, blah, blah, all of that gets handed to her boss. We know from Ryan Liz's substack, the person who leaked that to her boss at the New Yorker was Kara Swisher, very famous reporter herself, podcaster, who was talking about this affair on her podcast. In Olivia's book, she writes this. He had received the information from a woman who had mentored me, who had been a mother to me when my mother died, whose baby I had sung to sleep. I would only learn that later. How she received the information would become clear to me later, too. Now, it didn't become clear to me later. So is it that Ryan Lizza, who was neighbors with Kara Swisher and told her, and then Kara told her boss, I don't know how it happened.

[Becca Platsky]

So I. I listened to Kara Swisher say this. So apparently, as much as Olivia says, we really tried to be careful, we never were seen in public together. Whatever each of them were telling people, their friends, who were presumably also journalists, that this was going on. You know, Olivia had told sources that he said he loved her and he was going to leave Cheryl for her. He was bragging about it to People as well. Kara Swisher says that she had just heard rumors, and so she thought the best thing to do from, like, a journalistic ethics perspective would be to call David Haskell, the editor magazine, the man who was my boss. That's what Olivia calls him. That's when David Haskell brings Olivia, and she describes it in this book, into an office and says, I've heard rumors about you. Now, Olivia says she has no idea what the hell he could be talking about. In fact, she thinks that has to do with the fact that she just got in a fight with her creative director, who she just. Creative director of New York Magazine, catches Some stray.

[Chelsea Montes]

Should I. Should I read it? Yeah. Okay, so remember, we said this recap was gonna feel like you're being slapped across the face in a cartoon. Cartoon style, left to right. That's probably what it feels like right now. So, to recap real quick, Kara Swisher is the one who outed the affair to Olivia's boss. Kara got the info from, like, friends that Olivia and RFK were telling the affair about, too, so they were just being sloppy with it. But Kara Swisher was also in contact with Ryan Lizza. And Olivia alleges Ryan Lizza had hacked her phones and devices to get all this information. But in the moment, at the time all this was going down. Olivia says she has no idea this was coming. And she gets called into a meeting with her boss. And this is how she writes about the meeting. Then, around the conference table in the empty office that Friday, the man for whom I worked meandered unsteadily from small talk to the subject of what he called the rumors. I never feared bosses because I never had cause to fear them. I was often late on a deadline, and I filed provocative expense reports, but no one complained. I was an improbable success in the straight world, named to all the silly lists that. Sorry, I'm just, like, I know. Gagging at okay. That connotate mainstream status and valorize youthful achievement. Celebrated for work that brought accolades and attention to the organization. I was, on balance, good for business. If anything, bosses seemed to fear me, feared that I would leave, always asked if there was anything they could do to make me happier. I saw the indifference or respect with which other writers were regarded. To say I received special treatment would be an understatement. It had not once occurred to me that this meeting might be some sort of trap. It had not occurred to me that the man whom I worked for might know anything about my relationship with RFK Jr. It did not occur even when he first raised the subject of rumors, unspecified rumors. So in this paragraph, she says, I am really bad at my job. Yeah. And I get special treatment. Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

And everybody lets me get away with everything because I'm on the, you know, Media Matters number one list, hottest, coolest young reporters. And I think this is the other element, too, of, like, her being a wunderkind. Like. Like, nobody writes this book with their full chest. Actually gets it published if you don't have an extremely inflated sense of self, which she does. And she. I mean, listen, on the one hand, she should be great if the book was good. That's what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is, does nobody tell her no? Does she really get so high on her own supply that she thinks that this is an acceptable book to publish? The worst book we've each ever read in our lives, and she's surprised by the reaction to it. I see this all the time when I cover, like, young CEOs. They're so lauded at an early age that it takes ice cream scoops out of your brain. Think about being 20, from 20 to 30 in one of the most famous magazines in the country, and you're constantly laid on deadline, and everybody tells you how great you are, and you get the biggest, best stories. You end up thinking that you can do whatever you want. You're completely untouchable. You are that great. You are that amazing.

[Chelsea Montes]

And you are so amazing you can have an affair with the person you're meant to be covering and that it's gonna be fine.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah. You're gonna get away with it.

[Chelsea Montes]

Well, what's funny is that on her way out of this story about being fired, she said, the man for whom I worked was by then in Milan for Fashion Week. So, as you said, he is in the same place Cheryl Hines is when this story is breaking. He managed his organizational reputational and literal mistresses over spotty service at the Fendi show. So I was like, okay. So as she leaves, she's like, zoink, he's cheating on. He's cheating on your wife.

[Becca Platsky]

You know, by the way, she calls the creative director basically a. The one that she was having arguments with.

[Ad Read Announcer]

She.

[Becca Platsky]

She slides that in there, too.

[Chelsea Montes]

But that. That was so weird to me. I was like, yeah, I was like, you're here settling scores with some creative director about something I don't fucking know about. She never gives context. Years, time. Like, I don't know anything that's happening. Much as you listening are probably like, what is happening? I know we're doing our very best.

[Becca Platsky]

We really are. It's incredibly complicated to talk about this book because there's so much that's not there and that you have to guess at.

[Chelsea Montes]

And I think it's meant to do that. This book is meant to, like, punch you in the face. And when you wake up, it goes.

[Becca Platsky]

I didn't hit you well. And I also think it's written specifically for, like, 10 people. Like, it's written for people who actually know the context and under. And would be offended by her saying that the creative director of the New York magazine is a huge jerk.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

I don't give a truly.

[Chelsea Montes]

Okay, now we are going to switch. We have covered rfk, we have covered some political stuff, her getting fired. And now we are going to switch into the wild, wild, wild parts of the book that I just don't even know why they're in there. And this is going to be the weird, fun stuff. And I'm just going to go through some highlights. Lights. So let's first begin with the brother stuff, and I'm gonna read from the book. Quote My brother is a mountain of a man. 6 foot 2 football player turned triathlete. Late in the summer, he stood in his driveway, American flag billowing behind him, arms crossed. As I began to explain the situation in which a blade now loomed over my neck, he stopped me. Wait, wait, he said. He lifted me off the ground and moved me to the grass. He gestured to the security camera above the garage. I don't know who's listening, he said. Okay, okay. I just wanna stop. So he thinks his own security system is currently live spying on him and Olivia. And you know what? Given the state of digital surveillance, maybe, why not? What the do you mean your brother lifted you up and moved you to the grass? What do we think it was? Cradled like a baby, two arms at the waist. I wouldn't a normal person just gesture to the left? What are you talking about? Your brother lifted you up and moved you a few feet over to the grass.

[Becca Platsky]

He picked me up off the ground. He moved me to the side and then we kept talking and I thought and I said, that's interesting.

[Chelsea Montes]

Tell me more.

[Becca Platsky]

Does he knew?

[Chelsea Montes]

He started with like, he's a big boy. My brother's a big boy. She also describes Trump. He's like, Trump is so big. He's this big boy. He's lifting me up and he okay, no, no.

[Becca Platsky]

And I think it goes to, I'm widow, baby.

[Chelsea Montes]

I'm a sexy widow, baby. My big football brother lifted me up to get me away from the nsa. Okay, then she said. You know, her brother looks at her in confusion and looks back at her after she explains everything and says, quote the guy with the fucked up voice, he said. I like his voice, I said. He turned away and thought for another moment. He turned back to me again. You don't have any interest in, I don't know, a nice 32 year old in private equity? I know a lot, he said dryly. He was staring at the sky now as if he might find some answers there. It's not daddy issues, right? He asked. I did not think so. Yeah, so I don't know what the problem he is. First off, you're right, Olivia. It's not daddy issues. It is brother issues. It is fuck my brother issues that are getting contorted into daddy issues.

[Becca Platsky]

She dated Keith Olbermann when she was 18. It's not like this is a. Oh, oh, my God. You're dating an old man, Olivia. This is so engaged.

[Chelsea Montes]

20 years.

[Becca Platsky]

Like, I don't. That's why this story makes no sense to me.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, no, I think that's. I think it's such a good point. I just, like, I'll never get over her brother lifting her three feet and moving her to the side. Okay, the next part of the book I'm absolutely obsessed with is her insistence that she is not obsessed with Marilyn Monroe and pop stars, when, in fact, she holistically is. And as a celeb memoir aficionado, when the Marilyn Monroe obsession comes up from another woman, it's a red flag. Mariah Carey, obsessed with Marilyn Monroe. Anna Nicole Smith obsessed with Marilyn Monroe. There's probably 12 other memoirs where they're.

[Becca Platsky]

Like, Marilyn Monroe, right?

[Chelsea Montes]

And it's just like, it's such a sign of, like, something bad's going on. And you think being blonde can heal it. And Olivia does, but she wrote this, which was infuriating. She said, I never thought much about Marilyn Monroe, but I often thought of something. She said, quote, I restore myself when I'm alone. Me too. Blah, blah. I need to smell. And I'm like, why are you lying? Why are you lying? That you never thought of Marilyn Monroe when you are currently working very hard because you are a brunette, as am I. You are working so hard to stay Marilyn Monroe blonde. Now imagine putting that sentence in your book. I never think of Marilyn Monroe. Then a few pages later, or 100 pages later, whatever it is, is, writes this. Dan Byrne imagines that Marilyn Monroe marries Henry Miller instead of Arthur Miller in Maryland, a song he wrote in the early 1990s while living in Los Angeles. He figures her existence would have been, in that event, a more whimsical and less burdened affair. The bulk of Marilyn Monroe's estate had been left to her acting coach, and when he died, it was inherited by his second wife, who licensed her image with liberal abandon. Blah, blah, blah, blah, More Marilyn Monroe. Blah, blah, blah. Pamela Anderson is celebrated because she deserves celebration. She is celebrated, too, because she survived to represent the second half of the life Marilyn Monroe did not get to live. Through Pamela, we see ourselves redeemed. Fine. Why did you, 50 pages earlier, think you could tell me that you never think of Marilyn Monroe.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes, and the Britney Spears of it all as well. I mean, she's obsessed with blonde pop stars who have a downfall. No, who else is obsessed with Britney Spears? Sheena Shay.

[Chelsea Montes]

Oh, my God. Well, and also. Okay, so let's get to all of these. So then, then you know who else is obsessed with Marilyn Monroe? Holly Madison, who also dyed her hair. Marilyn Monroe, blonde, who also dated Hugh Hefner, if that's what the word we call it, and also tried to replicate Marilyn Monroe all the time for Hugh Hefner, who stole Marilyn Monroe's images and published them and loved her. Blah, blah. Here's something she wrote. Quote, the place reminded me of the Playboy Mansion as I had seen it depicted on a reality television show about Hugh Hefner and his three central girlfriend. One of those women, my favorite, Holly Madison, remarked once, direct to camera, that her sister was so important to her, in part because she was the only other person who knew what it was like to grow up in her home. Blah, blah, blah. So this is just like casual. Holly Madison has shaped me. And it's like, absolutely. That is totally clear. And then she also, just in the middle of talking about politics, something entirely else, she will start talking about Britney Spears. Here's Britney Spears appeared in a cavernous room dimly lit by fire. She had a feral look. Bleach, frayed hair, pharmaceutical stare. Okay, I do like the phrase pharmaceutical stare. That was good. She wore a flimsy leopard print leotard, brown leather boots and a brand of red fabric on her wrist. And nothing else. The purr of her voice was unmistakable even as she recorded. Music flitted in and out of staccato cuts. She stalked up to the eye of the camera, her own eyes wide and accusatory because she's just kind of like describing her Instagram. And then she's like, mostly she twirled and twirled and twirled. Rapunzel or Mowgli, prisoner or recluse, inside the house, yet somehow on the loose. America's dancer trapped in its jewel box on a tour called Dream Within a Dream. She performed this way, emerged from the center of the stage, arms stretched overhead in a tool skirt. At the time, the country was at war and she was in a different kind of captivity. I loved her then and I love her now. She is all heart. She is broken heart. This is in between paragraphs about Donald Trump.

[Becca Platsky]

Britney Spears is to the Iraq war as. It's just like crazy.

[Chelsea Montes]

It's like there is A point to be made there. You are nowhere near it. You are nowhere fucking near. As someone who talks about this shit all the time and. And I do love to talk about Britney Spears implications on our culture and how culture shaped her. You're not even in a football range that your brother would run across because he's so big in troll of correctly. Why? Why is that in there?

[Becca Platsky]

That's the thing. It's like she's making these observations, but she's not actually doing anything with them. We're not.

[Chelsea Montes]

But an observation of what? I can describe Britney Spears Instagram as well. She pulled sheath knives with a hairy look. She twirled and danced and danced the dance. It's like, okay. And then I went and interviewed Trump. Are you Britney Spears? Are you twirling? Like, what do you want me to take from this other than you want it to be a pop star? All you grow up pop stars. You're supposed to be writing about Donald Trump and you can't because you want to be Britney Spears. This is the other Britney Spears. And again, she's like, talking about something else. And then she's like, in the mob. Britney Spears lost her balance. She was holding her baby on her hip as the photographers jostled for the shot. She fell over and her baby fell with her. In the photos taken next through the window of the restaurant, she sat there, her face red and wet, her expression sad and hysterical. The photos were everywhere. They posted the photos on the national altar of television. My mother looked at the screen. That poor girl, she said. That's her baby. I looked at my mother. Her face was red and wet. Her. Her expression sad and hysterical. I had seen it before. Okay, so, like, maybe like her mom's Britney Spears or like, it's a type of writing where what you. What you do is you describe something else that is illuminating the story you are currently telling. And you go back and forth between this thing that has nothing to do with you, Britney Spears while talking about something else. And Britney Spears is illuminating that story. And you kind of braid it through in an essay. This is absolutely a technique. I use it too. It's as if Olivia, like, vaguely is aware that this is a writing concept, but, like, doesn't know how to execute it.

[Becca Platsky]

One of the things I did want to talk about, though, is, like, the fact that she only names women in the book. Britney Spears is one of many women that she actually names with their full government names. Everybody else other than Trump is given a nickname.

[Chelsea Montes]

That's a really good point, because who Are the women she names Sally Quinn.

[Becca Platsky]

Maureen Dowd, Britney Spears, all of those pop stars that we just went through. Every other man but Trump is not given a name. The actress is not named, but every other woman is named. Yeah, I would say named and shamed.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. Even though it's clear she loves Sally Quinn, she talks about her so much that it's like, actually, I think Sally Quinn, you're getting dragged down.

[Becca Platsky]

She also wants to fuck Sally Quinn, too.

[Chelsea Montes]

All right, that could be fun.

[Becca Platsky]

She. She says somewhere, and she's like, she's so sexy for 83.

[Chelsea Montes]

God. Yes, I did. Now I want to get us into my favorite gobbledygook sections where I'm just going to read a line and then we're going to discuss. And again, when I am reading through all of this, I am going back and forth all over this book to try and find some cohesion. So this is early in the book when she's calling President Trump and she writes this on the line. I hesitated. Then I said, it's Olivia Newsey. I said my name and my wanted manner of speaking, a near whisper that the President had remarked on over the years. So I'm calling that out because in part one, I played a part of her recording her book, which sounds like Marilyn Monroe impression. A magazine cover with my name on it, advertising not my life, not disfigured public narratives about private matters, but my work. Then we played a piece of her in an interview sounding like completely normal lady. People talk a lot about the media being biased in one way or another to the left or to the right. Usually they're talking about it having a liberal bias, which I think can be true in some cases. On the Bulwark Podcast, she also had sexy little baby voice. And then in the book, she's talking about how her voice is famously a sexy little baby whisper, and the President has talked about it. What's going on?

[Becca Platsky]

So she also says that something happened to her hearing as a kid.

[Chelsea Montes]

Right.

[Becca Platsky]

Or something happened, and it made her voice really low or soft, but it also gave her photographic memory.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. Like auditory. It. I don't know, Whatever. Auditory memory. Like, she basically. She was like, I can record an entire conversation from across the room that I'm not even a part of.

[Becca Platsky]

Right. She says she can, like, throw her hearing, and that also she remembers she has an internal voice recorder.

[Chelsea Montes]

That's right.

[Becca Platsky]

That conversation with Trump, I think that is the initial conversation she has when she's 21 that leads to her having an audience with Trump. If I remember Correctly.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, maybe.

[Becca Platsky]

But, yeah, I. I do think. I mean, this is a tool she uses. Going back to what we had spoken about earlier in the episode, she's probably the only reporter that speaks like this.

[Chelsea Montes]

That. But the thing is, is that she clearly doesn't speak like that, as we have instances of her on television not using that voice. It's giving Elizabeth Holmes, which is like, I am taking on this mask to become a person. I am not. So that you believe me. A lot of people, after listening to our Part One episode, said they thought she was using AI to record her audiobook because it was so stilted. But then on the Bulwark Podcast, she sounds very similar. So I think it's sort of in this moment of retreat and in this moment of like. Like, wait, I'm. I'm being chased by drones sent by RFK Jr. She's now doing soft voice and in the book, trying to convince us this is. This has always been her voice.

[Becca Platsky]

Right. Well, I also wonder if she code switches, too, if she uses that voice when she's talking to Trump, when she's talking to rfk. But then obviously, like, she can't go on CNN and talk like that. Like, she has to use her proper reporter voice. So there's a part of me that wonders if that's a tool in her toolbox box.

[Chelsea Montes]

That makes sense. That makes the most sense. I think. It's funny, in the book, she's like, no, me, I always whisper, but I would rather her be like, hey, guess what? I whisper when it's men to get sources. Then I go on CNN and I yell, okay, here's another part of the book I want to talk about. I do not care about news, and I am not competitive by nature. In truth, I consider news to be a burden, and I would almost always rather someone else break it. What? Like, either you're telling the truth and you should not have been a reporter for the past 10 years, which I think is probably it. You should have been a pop star. Or why are you telling this lie in a book about being a journalist?

[Becca Platsky]

It's almost like I think she's saying, well, I didn't want to be a reporter anyway, so I actually hate news. So I actually don't care. Vanity Fair, that you fired me because I don't want to do new stuff. Anyway, the journalism at all is the part that really enraged me.

[Chelsea Montes]

So.

[Becca Platsky]

I'm the daughter of a local journalist for 40 years. Like, news reporting, very important in my life still, you know, when I do the podcast, I Always make sure that we credit sources, we credit reporters. I think journalism is incredibly important. There were a couple lines in this book that I almost jumped off the boat when she's talking about the bitch creative director, how angry she was all the time. She says, I respected her. There were still people in this dying trade who cared enough about the work to enroll. Dropped in rage over it. Yeah, dude. Olivia. Yes. Are you kidding me? It's not journalists who are contributing to newsroom deterioration. It's executives. It's consultants. It's private equity. And then later, she says, there aren't many local journalists anymore. I guess it's because private equity firms keep buying local newspapers and gutting them. It kind of feels like a conspiracy these days. I'm like, yeah, that's, like, just the most most popular reported.

[Chelsea Montes]

That's fact.

[Becca Platsky]

That. Yes. That. That is what is happening, Olivia.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

And you would know that if you talk to a journalist ever, which you're supposed to be.

[Chelsea Montes]

And why does your brother know so many men in private equity? Does he work in private equity? Why is he trying to set you up with men in private equity? Yeah. Her regard for journalism is zero. And the ethics of it, the practice of it. And I think that is actually what's most shocking to tell on yourself about when you're supposed to be a wunderkind.

[Becca Platsky]

Well, and then the other part is, she goes, you know, they're trying to pull my reporting about Joe Biden and Trump just because of this affair. Never mind the fact that the reporting was accurate. And it's like, right. So, Olivia, when you lie, it gives people cause to question everything you wrote. That's how it works. And I'm just, like, confused about the editors who had been working with her over the past 10 years, although she says she had no oversight, seemingly. But I'm also just like, was nobody questioning her? Like, how did this not come out until Ryan Lizza was there? Because she was so cool and hot and sexy and wunderkind. Nobody questioned her. This is a long period that she has these patterns in her reporting, and nobody seems to be, you know, questioning it.

[Chelsea Montes]

I will say that one of the cookies in our chat, the comments from part one, are phenomenal. And someone talked about how Anne Helen Peterson spoke about her reputation in the industry and how amongst journalists, it was understood that she couldn't write right. She could get great information, and that was really her skill set, but that it was her editors who put the pieces together, which would then also be like, wait a minute. Then. Then, like, so she did have oversight. I also want to note, just as a tangent, that also from experience, even in my industry, that is also a very popular rumor to start when you are jealous of another woman. So while it may be true, I also want to leave a lot of space for that not being true, because that is exactly the type of thing you would say when a young woman started to get success. But then again, the book is written poorly, I don't know. So it, it is all very confusing. Here's another thing she writes in the book. I had thought it was a blessing and still do. When I entered the profession at the height of what was determined the personal essay boom for young women writers, I could not participate because I did not care to write of my own life and experiences because I did not find any of it terribly interesting. Interesting. Certainly not more interesting than whatever I might learn from the world, from other people and their experiences. Now as then I write to establish what can be established, blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, why lie? I know you've written about your life in the book. Also, like, I love that personal essay female boom. I hope we get back to it. I want more blogs just talking about life. Listen, that's why I love memoirs. Obviously. She clearly wanted to be a part of things that. Yeah, why is she even putting that? Me, I never even wanted to do that, but felt very lucky to be in that era. Instead, I cared about the world. It's like. But in other parts of the book, you said you're a bad journalist.

[Becca Platsky]

I know, I know. And, and that's where I'm wondering too, like, what was the editing process for this book even?

[Chelsea Montes]

I feel like they got the first draft and they're like, no, I can't just print it. No, no, no, no, no. This will kill me. Print it.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, yeah. I, I, I do think there was like a, a speed because at this point, Simon and Schuster had already sung sunk what, $500,000 into Olivia's part of the book. And so I think they just wanted to recoup their earnings.

[Chelsea Montes]

I wonder if they did. Okay, last, last lie. And then we're getting into some more fun sections. I keep saying my favorite, but maybe this is my favorite lie in the book. My bar for what I would classify as inappropriate behavior from men is much higher than modern standards, which I consider absurdly low from the woman having the RFK junior felting affair.

[Becca Platsky]

So she expects less of men than other people.

[Chelsea Montes]

She expects more of men. She, the bar is even higher than modern standards because modern standards are too Low. So she doesn't allow inappropriate behavior from men in a book where she allows everything from men.

[Becca Platsky]

Girl, that. It. It makes no sense. It makes no sense.

[Chelsea Montes]

It makes no sense.

[Becca Platsky]

Okay, then.

[Chelsea Montes]

Another part of the book I loved was. I guess I'm gonna call it like Olivia goes Shopping. And I. I always love dress shoes and fashion details in a book, but hers were horrifying. So right now, the picture being ran of her and everything is this picture from the White House correspondence dinner where she is in an animal print, extremely tight mock turtleneck top that goes into a red satin skirt that is floor length that has. Has a slit all the way up to the good place and it is hideous. And I say this with the power of someone who would buy something very similar to it. Like seeing this, I was like, wow, thank God I didn't get caught by this dress. And you did. Because I can absolutely see me being like, oh, red. A slit, cheetah print. The only reason I wouldn't have bought this dress myself is that it's a mock turtleneck. She's everywhere for it in the book. Clearly upset that this is the picture being read about her. She read rights. I was on mushrooms when I bought that gown. So I'm like, okay, so you do drugs as you're reporting. Okay, you were sober when you put it on. Becca, I looked up how much the gown costs. How much do you think this dress?

[Becca Platsky]

I'm gonna guess somewhere between 700 and $900.

[Chelsea Montes]

1600.

[Becca Platsky]

Jesus.

[Chelsea Montes]

$1600 for this dress? And she's also like, oh, God, I look heinous. I can't believe this is the picture of me running everywhere. And also it is sad. She knows there are other pictures they could have chosen of her. There's tons of photos of her looking like a quote, serious reporter. And everyone is choosing instead to run this photo of her in this crazy dress.

[Becca Platsky]

So it's also interesting because has various points in the book, she talks about how she always wears black. She likes.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yes.

[Becca Platsky]

She likes to kind of fade into the background. She doesn't want to be the subject. But then if you go to her Getty images, she's wearing a lemon yellow suit. She's wearing a purple top with yellow skirt. Like she's not that at all, at all.

[Chelsea Montes]

She's trying to rewrite her voice and rewrite her fashion.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes.

[Chelsea Montes]

I also found some sort of story that was run an article where they were like the White House correspondent bringing fashion to dc. She is in fact wearing one of those hideous color blocked dresses that many of us fell for. And it is like, I recommend you shop at Reformation. Like, I was like, oh, she really, like, upped the fashion game of dc Which I know for my friends in DC Wasn't much, but. Okay, here's another fashion moment in the book that made no sense. Everyone, as I'm writing this, try and imagine what famous event she is at when she takes time from her book to write this, I turned on the heel of my pink Gucci stilettos from where I was standing outside the facade of the Gucci store and the atrium to face the fabled golden escalator. In my mind, the stilettos morphed into the black Prada stilettos I had been wearing the day when I first stepped onto the marble here. I could remember it clearly, what the sun looked like outside, how it shone on the buttons of the uniforms of the doorma. I wore a white Ankora sweater, and I could remember how it felt warm to the touch when I entered the building because it had been unseasonably warm that day. It was freezing in the lobby. Then as now. Now I know we were put through this book. Do you even remember what this is from?

[Becca Platsky]

Isn't that when Donald Trump is announcing his campaign?

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. And that Mexicans are rapists. So when he first announced it, she was in black Prada stilettos in a white angora sweater. Now she's here in pink. Pink Gucci stilettos. Just like, I don't know, back walk in the lobby, having memories. The. The. Also, again, as Becca said in this book, she said, normally, I wear entirely black. Now, by her own account, she's in a white angora sweater. I. And here. Here's the thing. Does it matter? Absolutely not. Why is any of this here?

[Becca Platsky]

Right.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. Why is. Okay. And it's like.

[Becca Platsky]

It's like, I don't have to Google it to find out. You literally 10 pages later, tell me something complete. Completely opposite.

[Chelsea Montes]

I know, but it's just like, you're lying about what you're wearing. How the. Are we supposed to trust your Donald.

[Becca Platsky]

Trump and RFK Jr.

[Chelsea Montes]

Interviews?

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

You can't even let us know that you sometimes wear a white sweater without outing yourself. Okay, here's the one other thing. So she's like, my fashion, my gown, my Gucci shoes. And then on page 10, this is the other huge character in the book. It is the white Mustang that she bought when she got to Malibu and drives it all around and then. And, like, talks about it constantly, she said the night before. So She's. She's in Los Angeles in the hills at a party. She said, I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror and am startled by how young I look. Okay. As though I just arrived here. I used to feel very old the night before. A high school girl had told me that I reminded her of a baby deer. And this would not have meant much to me had a woman not described me earlier that week as looking like a deer in the headlight headlights. And had a psychic Dringo. Here's your psychic moment. Not remarked that she saw me as, quote, half fawn, half mustang, by which I assumed she meant the horse and not the car that I drive out here. The driver's side door sometimes pops open on the freeway. A minor thrill. The psychic would not reveal more because she said I doubted her powers. And then one more white messing reference. And then I need to hear your thoughts on like why this car is in the book, why it means so much to her, who bought it?

[Becca Platsky]

It's.

[Chelsea Montes]

Was it her? I don't know. She then writes in Malibu, I hit the gas in my white Mustang while in my mind the engine of the white Mustang I drove through the country a year ago revved. So like she's just like, I drive a white Mustang.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah. And she.

[Chelsea Montes]

Why do you think this matters to her?

[Becca Platsky]

She cares. She's still to the. I mean, cares a lot about it. There's paparazzi shots of her driving. She shows up to you talked about house and habit, their three year subsack anniversary. There are pictures of her showing up in this white Mustang. Ryan Lizza also talks about her going on Aderall fueled drives up and down in that white Mustang. I think that she. I don't know, she just seems like a very visual person, certainly. And like if you go to that New York Times profile they did of her before this book came out, the like hero image is her in the white Mustang, blonde hair flopping about. I think she thinks she's like always in a getaway car. Like, yeah, absolutely.

[Chelsea Montes]

I think she's like, I want to be cool and iconic and an girl and this will help.

[Becca Platsky]

One of the things that I thought was really interesting was the fact that a huge picture of her is on the back of this book and she looks markedly different now than she did two years ago. Her eyebrows are completely different. It seems like she got a headache.

[Chelsea Montes]

I had already mentioned that where I was like, wow, no brows. The brows are gone.

[Becca Platsky]

Her face is completely changed. And I don't know, I would argue it has Aged her significantly, but she.

[Chelsea Montes]

Caught herself in the mirror and looks very young.

[Becca Platsky]

Well, isn't that interesting that I'm seeing something different than she's writing, than what she's seen?

[Chelsea Montes]

I think that's absolutely right. I think what I am now looking at for the rest of our episode, Becca, is how much other shit I was going to bring up. So I think I need to read the best line in the book. That is, fittingly, something she did not write. And this is about Trump. Quote, I always thought of him as a novel. Hundreds of lies that amount to one big truth. That took my breath away. I said, oh, my God, that's Trump. That is the most beautiful explanation of Trump. A hundred lies that amount to one big truth. And the person who said that was R.F. kennedy, Jr. Wow.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

And I said, that's where there are good lines in the book. Book. But then she'll write something like this. Space time moves in one direction, not ahead or back, but down at the heart of the heart. At the very bottom of a black hole. Albert Einstein thought we would locate the end of time, what he termed the singularity. A final frame, the last gasp. I will meet you there, I said, when the book is over, I'll meet you there, too. Bring me to the black hole. That's page 98. 200 more pages to go. Written for what?

[Becca Platsky]

What?

[Chelsea Montes]

For nothing.

[Becca Platsky]

Here's my favorite quote of the book that describes it for me. She's describing punishment in medieval times, I guess. She says the murder mechanism saw one half of a person tied to one horse and their other half tied to another horse. The horse was then compelled to run in opposite directions, at which point the person was torn to pieces. I was like, that actually sounds better to me than finishing this book.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as you can tell from what we've been reading, it's nonsensical. Like, we are even giving this organization that doesn't exist exist here. There's a time in the book where she talks about. I mean, actually, I do want to read it because it'll make no sense, and then we'll talk about it. She says this. The advisor was just another deadhead. Like many conservatives, I knew and had not known Jerry Garcia, the politician had known Jerry Garcia. And I figured that contributed to the advisor's sudden sycophancy on the politician's behalf and therefore probably in some way on Jerry Garcia's behalf. Under the pretense that what was on his behalf was now also on behalf of the President, the advisor provided blind quotes to the press, in which he overstated his connection to me, inflated his importance as my longtime source and claimed falsely that I had flirted with him and used my appearance as a tool for manipulation while performing my work. Something about Jerry Garcia fans causing some man to lie about her because he liked RFK Jr because RFK Jr once knew Jerry Garcia, now someone else is willing to lie on record for him.

[Becca Platsky]

I was took by that. What I took from that was I didn't know that Deadheads were conservative.

[Chelsea Montes]

I actually think. I think that is quite common.

[Becca Platsky]

That's a new fact for me. Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

No, I think Deadheads are. It's the same way. Ann Coulter is a huge Grateful Dead fan and has been to 86 concerts.

[Becca Platsky]

That's fascinating to me. That's a new piece of lore that I wouldn't have guessed.

[Chelsea Montes]

Weird. Do the Deadheads want this? I don't think they do, no.

[Becca Platsky]

But, yeah, that. That made.

[Chelsea Montes]

I don't know, like, our fellow Deadheads. Like, yeah, Republican conservatism. Like, I. I don't know how that goes together. Final thing I have to talk about before we end her book is she had been talking about this person who she called the personality. The personality throughout the book. Now, Becca, you are smart and great. So you knew who she was talking about. I kept writing, who's the personality? Who's the personality? And I did not find out who the personality was until she wrote this. We were the same age. I did not remember when I first met him. He was like a kid from my class, someone who was friends with many of my friends, who had been around as long as I had been around, though I did not see him much and did not know him beyond what you might call the green room level on which you nod and smile and say hello and continue on your own timelines unaffected by the exchange. On the afternoon when I heard his fear that the President. I'm filling this in, that the President was going to be assassinated. When I witnessed his nerves, I did not yet know what he may have felt. I did not yet know that I would come to consider him the man who would be assassinated. I did not yet believe on some level that his concern for the President was an alarm blaring through his body, that the alarm was attended to, warn him. So throughout the book, she's, like, chatting with the personality. She's like, oh, my God, he has, like, a gun this time. He has, like, a rifle. Anyways, the personality, personality. And then she's like. And then he's dead. And I was like, you were talking this fondly about Charlie Kirk.

[Becca Platsky]

I know. I. I had no idea who she was talking about until she said, the man who was going to be assassinated.

[Chelsea Montes]

Oh, thank God. Because I was like. Every time. She was like. And then the personality called me and I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Becca Platsky]

No, I. I was looking. I was at trying to find who she would have been talking about. I thought maybe she meant somebody on cnn. Some. I had no idea. No, I had no clue.

[Chelsea Montes]

Wild to include him in the book like that.

[Becca Platsky]

But is that opening the door now.

[Chelsea Montes]

To the pathway of Griftom?

[Becca Platsky]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Chelsea Montes]

All right, so here's how the book ends. She's outside in Malibu, and she's like, I think I'm being followed by drones. But then she sees a guy with a man bun flying a drone. And she's like, okay, well, at least that explains one of the trucks. Drones. Then she said. The electric hum lifted my attention again to the sky. While at night, the machine is a false star, in the day, it is a decoy bird of prey. On the cloudless horizon, the drone accelerates like the red tailed hawk, launched by the hand of God from nothing, right into the fabric of everything. The red tailed hawk moves, hulking yet graceful. It treads the air and scans the ground. Hovers for so long, you start to wonder if it may be stuck, caught in some invisible web or patch of sky that sticks to its feathers like a glue trap in an instant. Then it pushes forward. It does not soar. Soaring is for eagles. Instead, it zips as a razor, slicing into the slide of the atmosphere. A line, long and steady. And the line spells out the word of God. And the word says that you are not alone. And by this, God does not quite clear his intent, whether that he means to offer reassurance or issue a threat. The end. No acknowledgments. Book over. I just want to call out, there's another bird here.

[Becca Platsky]

I don't know. She's a bird in a mustang.

[Chelsea Montes]

I don't know.

[Becca Platsky]

I. I imagine reading that for 300 pages.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah, and. And you listen to some of it. Are you still with. Are you listeners alive? Are you with us? Okay, Becca. It is time for us to release ourselves and the listeners from this nightmare and do the book till test. Three questions. First question, Was the author vulnerable in the sharing of her truth?

[Becca Platsky]

No.

[Chelsea Montes]

A laughable notion.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

Hilarious to even ponder such thing. Second question, was it entertaining to read?

[Becca Platsky]

I felt things I haven't Felt before while reading a book. Entertain Entertainment wouldn't be one of them. I give that a no.

[Chelsea Montes]

I'm also a big no. Because throughout the book, she is also printing interviews with people she calls like, unidentified male and like, you don't get anything from it. And then at one point she even printed Prince a piece of her interview with Donald Trump. And she really played the game of getting in close with him and gets interviews with him. And per Ryan, Liz's substack, like, may have had the scoop that a bullet never hit his ear, which, like, we all know was pretty clear, but she may have had that true scoop, but never truly got it. And so I was at least thinking when we get to the transcript of her and Trump's interview, like, I'm at least gonna learn something. Like, what did you actually ask? What did you get from Donald Trump when you got a hold of him and like spent all this time getting to know him?

[Ad Read Announcer]

This is.

[Chelsea Montes]

Well, this is what she asked. At Mar a Lago, we had been talking about this idea of you as a kind of artist. Isabelle had used the word conceiver. I recalled this scene. You were sitting down to film a documentary and in 30 seconds you reconfigured the whole shot and you made it look so much better, yet you only changed a few things. Do you always think visually this is like, she's like, oh my God, what makes Trump tick? Nothing. You're Talking to a three year old in a 90 year old man's body who is currently ruining the nation. Why are you trying to pretend like that?

[Becca Platsky]

Do you always think visually is crazy? Yeah, yeah, because I actually can't read. So. So people come show me picture Venezuela.

[Chelsea Montes]

Migo bomb, bomb them go war big time. But I was like, this is what you spent your time on. And then printed in the book as like something worth knowing. No.

[Becca Platsky]

And, and by the way, I went a little crazy last night and I was kind of copying pasting parts of her articles into the Kindle book that I had to see if I could find. She lifts just huge chunks of articles that she's already written and just copy and paste them in her. In this book, like word for word.

[Chelsea Montes]

Becca. Holy.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

Also, Becca, I want to take whatever research document you created and mine. Maybe we should post both on the Patreon because there's just so much we didn't even get to. And I know you have, you have so many trinkets like that. I will say the most entertaining thing that happened to me is that Becca deep dived on her Twitter and found a sketch that she had drawn of Mark Sanford, the man she had an affair with, and posted it to Twitter. This woman posted a pencil sketch of Mark Sanford, Stanford, to Twitter while she was him.

[Becca Platsky]

She sketches a lot of people. She's also sketched Trump and Rand Paul.

[Chelsea Montes]

Okay, but, like, are those. Come on. What I saw was like, can we call that a sketch? If she can sketch, then I guess.

[Becca Platsky]

I can sketch huge penis and balls that she drew on her, too. No, I'm just kidding. I wish. Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah.

[Becca Platsky]

Her Twitter is crazy. Yeah. I went far.

[Chelsea Montes]

You went far. We're going to post a lot of it. It. Final question. Did reading this book elevate your life in any way?

[Becca Platsky]

Oh, in the sense that it elevated me so far that I went down the opposite way and I found myself in hell.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. And we're still trying to climb out of it.

[Becca Platsky]

No. Yeah. Like I said I would, I'd rather be tortured primitively.

[Chelsea Montes]

Yeah. It definitely put me in a dark place of, like, it's not that I thought the media was doing a great job, but reading something like this, you're like, oh, my God, there's no hope for us. There's no one there. This was one of the reporters who got sit downs with him, and they were like, this is the one. And it's like, oh, no. Oh, no. Here's how I want to say the book did not elevate my life. She wrote this. Let's pray for each other. RFK Jr said, I prayed for him, as I always did and continue to. Even now I have to assume he only prayed for himself. I said, you pray. You're religious. And then. And Ryan Liza, substance stack in an AMA that a cookie posted to show the chat. Ryan Liza said, I meditate daily. And when I do, I do a loving kindness meditation. And I always include her. I wish nothing but peace and happiness for her. And those two examples for me are just another reminder that thoughts and prayers don't work.

[Becca Platsky]

You reminded me of one other nugget that I wanted to add, which is at some point in the book, she mentions that RFK actually never asks her questions about herself. Herself.

[Chelsea Montes]

He's like, you reporter, me, big boy.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes. And so as she's describing this incredible love that she has for this man, as she's saying, like, oh, my God, we had a connection that, like, could not be beat. I kept reminding myself, he knows nothing about you. He's never asking a single question to you. Like, this is.

[Chelsea Montes]

By your own admission, by your own.

[Becca Platsky]

Admission, this Is this is love to you.

[Chelsea Montes]

I do think that if he turned around, was like, date me, they would be dating again. I think she's still in love. Love. I think she's trying to break into Hollywood now.

[Becca Platsky]

Yes. Yes.

[Chelsea Montes]

And I just feel so mad we endured this book. Becca.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah. I think she would be really happy if she ended up in the. I. This is so morbid. But if she ended up in the updated version of Ask, not the book about Kennedy women, like, I think she'd be very happy if.

[Chelsea Montes]

I think she'd be thrilled.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Montes]

I think she wants infamy. Like, she will be Jackie O. Or she'll be Britney Spears. Like, however you get there. And you know what?

[Becca Platsky]

What?

[Chelsea Montes]

I think she will get there. I think she's done a phenomenal job of making herself known. Yeah. And so I can only imagine that will continue. Finally, I want to say this episode is dropping on Friday, but we are recording on Wednesday. I know that Ryan Lizza has said his part five is going to drop. Hello. So part one of part five from Ryan Liz's substack dropped last night, Wednesday. I am now recording this on Thursday for us to put in our episode tomorrow. So more might happen. You know, Ryan's substack, it's so tough because his substack is just written, so it's written clearly. So I'm not saying it's written well. I'm just saying you can understand the story that he's saying. So it's. It's much easier to believe his side versus Olivia's because the book is so hard to understand. But every time I read his substack, I'm like, man, you are just like her older, jilted boyfriend, like, trying to get back at her. But in his substack, he's saying that these rumors that he was jealous of her career and wanted to ruin her career were created by her media team and her agent at CAA to stop him from outing the RFK Jr. Affair. And that basically, she chose protecting the RFK Jr. Affair over everything. And her strategy was to throw Ryan Lizza under the bus. And so listen, we will link to it if you want to read it. We certainly should talk about it in the Patreon. There's a lot more information in that. And also, I'm looking at his information a little wary of, like, where was all this? Where was all this every year you were with her? Where was all this years ago when she slept with Mark Sanford? Where was this a year ago before her book came out? Like, he's definitely capitalizing on this moment versus like having to defend himself because now that I've read her book, she didn't talk about about him, so I don't know what he's defending. Anyways, let's go get in the Patreon comments and chat it out. Okay, back to the episode. Okay, so here's the thing. Becca and I have so much more we could say if a ton of shit ton of people join the Patreon. Maybe Becca and I will be back to do bonus content. Maybe not. We'll see. Maybe we're dead inside already. But no matter what, you should listen to Corporate Gossip where Becca has this level of research on all the things that extremely matter. Like I listened to a whole series on you talking about Boeing, which even just helps me understand why my airport experience was changing, but also was fascinating. So Becca, please plug Corporate Gossip in where everyone can find you and follow you.

[Becca Platsky]

Yeah, so Corporate Gossip is the business news podcast for gossip lovers. We take all the business news that maybe you're like, this doesn't really make sense for an average person, for somebody without an mba, which by the way, they do on purpose because they don't want you to know some of this stuff that they're doing behind the corporate veil. And we make it count. Kind of easy to understand. And we present it in a way where you feel like you're reading Page Six, but you're actually learning about share buybacks and deferred prosecution agreements in the part of Boeing. But we make it fun. So yeah, you can listen to us wherever you get your podcasts and shout out to the many cookies who are over on our Patreon as well.

[Chelsea Montes]

So I love that so much. And listen, I'll probably see you sooner than later and we will walk through hell again together. I would only have wanted to do this journey with you. Thank you so much.

[Becca Platsky]

Thanks Chelsea.

[Chelsea Montes]

A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Thrive Cosmetics and every plate we will link to those brands in the show notes.

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Notes.

[Chelsea Montes]

Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier you can join Leave a comment chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.