Viral Article Book Club: Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing?

Summary

Glamorous Trash Podcast: "Viral Article Book Club – Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing?"

Host: Chelsea Devantez
Guest: Takara Elise
Date: November 14, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, host Chelsea Devantez and returning guest Takara Elise deep-dive into the viral British Vogue article “Is Having a Boyfriend Embarrassing Now?” by Chantae Joseph. They explore societal and cultural shifts in how women, especially straight women, portray romantic relationships online. The discussion covers performative coupledom, the backlash against centering a man's presence in a woman's narrative, the role of social media, and what it all says about modern romance, gender politics, and self-worth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Boyfriend is Cringe” Cultural Phenomenon

• Context: The episode revolves around the viral British Vogue article questioning whether having a boyfriend is now considered embarrassing for women, especially in digital and social spaces (01:05).
• Social Media Shifts: Chelsea and Takara reflect on changes from open, “hard launches” of romantic partners to “soft launches” and cropping or blurring partners’ faces in posts (03:00–04:30).
  • Quote: “More recently... straight women are opting for subtler signs... faces blurred out of wedding pictures.” – Chelsea (03:00)
  • Both recall friends cropping husbands out of wedding photos, confirming the article’s claim.
• Takara’s Take: She frames the article as a “diabolical” and “genius” look at how the start of cuffing season is now marked by “no stew, no partner, no man” (04:45).

2. Why the Shift?

• Decentralizing Men in Female Identity: Chelsea lauds the movement toward making a partner the “least interesting thing about you” (07:16).
  • Quote: “Decentralizing a man is valuable... Having a boyfriend should be the least interesting thing about you.” – Chelsea (07:16)
• Wife Guy Paradox: The hosts examine how men who center women (“wife guys”) are viewed as “sus” or inauthentic, suggesting a double standard but ultimately pointing out that making a partner the core of one’s identity is problematic for either gender (08:19–08:41).

3. The Hard Launch vs. Soft Launch Debate

• Takara’s Critique: She finds cropping out significant others from key life events (like wedding photos) “weird.” They agree privacy is valid, but incomplete depictions can seem suspect or unnecessarily coy (09:08–10:13).
  • Quote: “Either we’re going for privacy or you’re going to tell a complete story.” – Takara (09:52)

4. The Contradiction of Public Desire for Romance

• Romance is Still in Demand: The hosts point out the paradox that although many women are less inclined to broadcast their relationships, the hunger for romance novels, rom-coms, and fictional love stories has never been higher (10:43–11:30).
• Balancing Privacy and Performance: There’s an ongoing tension between the yearning for love and public skepticism or disappointment about men and relationships.

5. Gen Z, Social Media, and Modern Partnership

• Generational Outlooks: Younger women see the downsides of traditional partnership, with social media amplifying stories of relationship disappointment and the benefits of singlehood (12:59–13:20).
  • Quote: “We are seeing women who are getting divorced... because the husband of 25 years ate the last piece of cake.” – Takara (12:59)
• Increased Agency: The hosts note that women who take time to find partners aligning with their needs are happier, while those who “just want someone” often suffer—a key factor in why some lament having boyfriends as embarrassing (13:21–14:12).

6. Romance as Women’s Main Cultural Narrative

• Rom-Coms and Representation: Chelsea observes that the dominance of romance as a women-centered genre results in her own attachment to romantic storylines, but questions whether it’s truly progressive (16:16–17:06).
  • Quote: “Is it the only genre that stars women and they usually get to be funny and always end up happy?” – Chelsea (16:47)

7. Men’s Role (or Lack Thereof) in the Conversation

• Where’s the Advice for Men?: Instead of advice for men, most cultural scrutiny and improvement-focused discourse still targets women, reinforcing the burden on women to navigate the expectations of partnership (17:14–18:44).

8. The Online Performance of Coupledom

• Content vs. Authenticity: Both guests note that blurring or cropping partners may ultimately just be another way of performance, maintaining “girlfriend” as a primary identity, even while pretending to reject it (19:34–22:10).
  • Quote: “Gotta get the content.” – Takara (20:44)
• Soft Launch as Pretend-Apathy: Chelsea dislikes the “soft launch” trend, seeing it as an elaborate way to show you care, while pretending not to care (23:12–24:03).

9. “Don’t Make Your Boyfriend the Box”

• Improv Analogy: Chelsea compares hiding a boyfriend’s face to a bad improv scene—by building him up as a “mystery,” you're inviting disappointment; better to be upfront or simply private (24:03–24:51).
  • Quote: “Do not make your boyfriend the box.” – Chelsea (24:48)

10. Case Study: Taylor Swift, Megan Thee Stallion, & the ‘Boyfriend Backlash’

• Public Backlash: They discuss Taylor Swift and Megan Thee Stallion centering boyfriends in new work, and how fans reacted negatively—“booing” love-centered subject matter (25:27–26:03).
  • Quote: “Half an album from Taylor Swift that’s about Travis Kelce... her own fans were like, boo, we hate this...” – Chelsea (25:32–25:41)

11. Relationship Politics & Value

• Women Judged by Partners’ Flaws: Women are harshly judged for their partners’ perceived inadequacies; it’s a one-way street not often experienced by men (28:29–29:20).
• The Social Value of Being Chosen: There is still “clout” for being seen as wanted, even if not overtly celebrated on social media (29:46–30:13).
  • Quote: “Wanting to make sure that people know that they’re in that lane of being chosen...” – Takara (21:42)

12. Hosts’ Personal Approaches

• Why Takara Hides Her Partner (and Kids) Online: She used to post her partner often but stopped when others began to focus on him instead of her achievements (30:15–30:47).
  • Quote: “People would be like, where’s so and so? And I’d be like, the hell?” – Takara (30:46)
• Chelsea’s Anecdote: Losing Ownership of Her Work: Chelsea shares how credit for her creative event was repeatedly given to her husband—highlighting how women’s accomplishments are reattributed to men, even unintentionally (31:08–32:46).
  • Quote: “They’ll always think... anything good I ever did in life, he... he recorded this podcast today.” – Chelsea (32:44)

13. Social Media & Love: The Bottom Line

• It’s About the Logistics of Love Online: Both agree the article isn’t so much an indictment of romantic partnership as it is an exploration of how to navigate it in a performative social media age (34:25).
  • Takara: “This article... is about the logistics of being in love and being partnered online and whether or not you should choose to claim somebody online.” (34:25)

14. Celebrating Love (and Singlehood)

• Allowing for Both: Takara and Chelsea both love seeing authentic celebration of love online when it’s genuine and not forced for clout (34:26–35:56).
• Valuing Single Women: The biggest takeaway, and what “went viral,” is the celebration of women’s value outside of a romantic relationship—the “glamorous single life” as a new ideal (38:46–39:29).
  • Quote: “Women rejoicing as being like, valuable and wonderful and amazing, regardless of relationship status, has nothing to do with men... women have value alone.” – Chelsea (39:47–40:12)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the shift in online romance:
  • “You do see it all the time still. It’s just... not the norm anymore.” – Chelsea (06:05)
  • “I’m more used to the soft launch these days.” – Takara (06:48)
• On women's social value:
  • “The issue is thinking in this dowry mindset... my value has increased because of this.” – Takara (10:13)
• On men’s self-definition through women:
  • “When we see a wife guy, we go ‘ew!’” – Chelsea (08:20)
• On authenticity vs. performance:
  • “You’re edging the people who follow you on what his face is gonna look like.” – Chelsea (09:10)
• On reframing narrative:
  • “Having a glamorous single life, that is the TV show I want to watch.” – Chelsea (38:46)
• On women’s agency:
  • “You have the right to choose to be excited about your man, but also... happy in your single-dom.” – Takara (37:42)
• On public/private boundaries:
  • “If you claim him, if you acknowledge that you have a boyfriend... your boyfriend will take over your life whether you want him to or not.” – Chelsea (33:35)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:05 – Intro to the viral article and its online explosion.
• 03:00 – Explanation of the “boyfriend cringe” phenomenon, soft vs. hard launch.
• 06:05 – Discussion of shifting social media norms.
• 09:08 – Debate on cropping partners out of photos.
• 11:30 – Contradiction: growing demand for romance stories versus new “cringe” status.
• 17:06 – Why men aren’t asked to improve for romance.
• 23:12 – On “soft launch” and performative apathy.
• 24:48 – Chelsea’s “don’t make your boyfriend the box” improv analogy.
• 25:27 – Pop culture examples: Taylor Swift and Meg Thee Stallion’s “boyfriend albums.”
• 30:15 – Takara’s personal policy on posting her partner.
• 31:08 – Chelsea recounts losing creative credit to her husband.
• 34:25 – The true subject: Navigating partnered life on social media.
• 38:46 – Celebrating glamorous singlehood.
• 39:47 – Affirming women’s value irrespective of men.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode is a vibrant, nuanced conversation about the intersection of gender, social media, and modern romance, offering both critique and celebration. It recognizes society’s slow movement away from valuing women mainly for their attachment to a man, while acknowledging the persistent desire for love stories, real and fictional alike. Chelsea and Takara both champion the idea that women’s worth isn’t contingent on romantic status—and suggest the real “glamorous trash” is the freedom to define your own narrative, both online and off.

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Follow Takara Elise: @takaraelise or check out “Takara's Library” for kids’ book recaps.

Join the discourse: Chelsea encourages listeners to share thoughts and continue the book club conversation on Patreon.

(All ads and non-content sections omitted.)

Transcript

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[Chelsea Devontez]

Welcome to Glamorous Trash. This is a podcast that book clubs, viral articles, celebrity memoirs and trashy discourse to elevate your life. I'm your host, Chelsea devontez. I'm a TV writer, comedian, filmmaker, author, and sometimes I'm in stuff too. And today is a viral article episode, an article that has truly gone viral. It is now in global syndication. It's the Vote Vogue article is having a Boyfriend's Embarrassing now by Chantae Joseph. It was published on October 29th in British Vogue. It's been all over TikTok Instagram. It started in our Patreon chat where the responses went wild. The cookies had a ton of thoughts. I love when y' all get the discourse started. And we're not just recapping this article. We're going in deep. We're adding on thoughts. We're pontificating. Let's get into it. My guest today is Takara Elise. She's covered memoirs by Ricki Lake, Jennifer Hudson, and Michelle Williams. She's a comedian writer on the Problem with Jon Stewart. She is also a mod in our creative writing program behind the Bangs. Takara hi, welcome to the podcast.

[Takara Elise]

Hello. And just to clarify, it was. It's the black Michelle Williams.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's right. If anyone was like, wait, Michelle Williams has a memoir? Yes.

[Takara Elise]

Not yet.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Michelle Williams from Destiny's Child as a memoir. I thought that was such a good episode. You and Quincy covered that while I was gone and I loved getting to listen to it. And I actually, you know what? I wasn't planning to do this, but let me pull up the text message you sent me that sometimes people send me messages. And I was like, oh, you just booked yourself on the podcast. It was a link to this article. It says, oh, Chelsea, please. Next viral article, all caps, please. Dropping this off at the beginning of cuffing season. All caps. Diabolical. It's already been translated into 13 languages. The movement is global. Crying emoji. Chelsea, please.

[Takara Elise]

Oh my God. I don't remember being so desperate.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Well, listen, I loved it. I said, well, you've just been booked on the podcast. So Takara, listen, let me give the headline for everyone, which it's in. The headline is having a boyfriend cringe. Is it embarrassing? Now, the article will go into a ton of different points that we're gonna pull out, but the kind of main one that the article was talking about is that she quoted another substack author saying, we were in this Instagram social media phase of Boyfriend's land, it was called, where women were rewarded for their ability to find and keep a man with elevated social status and praise, where the situation was rarely reversed with men and women. And it was sort of leveraged into all of these social media movements. And if you were serious enough, you could like profit off it, become influencers together, and then quotes. However, more recently, there's been a pronounced shift in the way people showcase their relationships online. Far from fully hard launching romantic partners, straight women are opting for subtler signs. A hand on a steering wheel, clinking glasses at dinner, or the back of someone's head. On the more confusing end, you have faces blurred out of wedding pictures or entirely professionally edited videos with the fiance conveniently cropped out of all shots. Women don't want to be seen as being all about their man.

[Takara Elise]

But.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But they also want the clout that comes with being partnered. And I mean, I saw the cookies in the chat talking about how they had like 23 year old daughters, 20 year old daughters, 20 year olds being like, my friends and I relate to this so much. I also instantly thought of the two women I know who cropped their husband out of their wedding photos but posted them.

[Takara Elise]

No.

[Chelsea Devontez]

So I instantly related to this, but Takara, I want to know and we'll get into that. But tell me, like, what, what lit this fire for you?

[Takara Elise]

You know, this is so funny. I love this article. Shantae is such a funny evil genius. And the reason why I really wanted you to cover it is because traditionally this is the season where people look around and they say, listen, I'm going to be stuck inside for four to five months. It's time to put the summer hedonism behind me and find a man to eat stew with. And the fact that this article dropped at the end of October is if they were like, no, absolutely not. No stew, no partner, no man. You don't need that. You don't need that. Being single is glamorous and romantic and fun, and we're not going to praise you anymore or any less if you have a man. And, Chelsea, I've been on Instagram since 2013, and I definitely remember that outside of, like, you know, I have this thing about doors and taking pictures of floors and your food. Your boyfriend slash husband was the subject matter of social media. We weren't doing carousels, obviously. But yes, that post of your badly filtered boyfriend at dinner or at a wedding or celebrating a silly anniversary to outsiders, of course, not to you, was the norm.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

But now it's 2025, and you don't really see that anymore. And it's very, very interesting.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I've seen a change. I want to say you do see it all the time still. It's just. It's not the norm anymore is how. It's how I feel. At least. At least that's my algorithm.

[Takara Elise]

Sure. It catches me off guard when it. When I do see it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, really, it catches you off guard when you see someone post a picture of them and their boyfriend?

[Takara Elise]

Yes, it does. Especially if it's someone who I'm like, oh, okay. They're very aesthetic and cool, and I don't really see a boyfriend, but when I do, I'm like, oh, is this what we're doing now? Is this the guy? Is this the guy?

[Chelsea Devontez]

No. You're saying it catches you off guard when someone hard launches, Then it's not like someone you know in life, and they're like, happy seventh anniversary. Fine.

[Takara Elise]

No, no, no, no. That's all well and good, but, like, a true hard launch, I can see the face. And then it becomes part of the Instagram series of, like, expectation that I will see them in the carousel. I'll see them in a post. I'll see them in a reel. I'm like, that's a man's face. What's a man's face doing here? Obviously someone who's been in a relationship with someone for a consistent amount of time. I'm like, okay, there's the guy again. Yeah, but I'm more used to the soft launch these days.

[Chelsea Devontez]

You know, I think I might be the only woman in the world who has a different take on this article, which I want you to debate me out of. And I want you to just pound my brain into the ground. But, you know, I love these episodes for the debate of it, and I. I want to say that decentralizing a man as valuable. I love that part of this. Like, I. I love the idea of, like, having a boyfriend should be the least interesting thing about you. Having a husband should be the least interesting thing about you. Like, the first thing when you're like, hey, what is Chelsea like? Shouldn't be. Oh, her husband's nice. It should be, you know, oh, she does this. She has a project. All these other cool, nice things you say about me, whatever. And when I put my personality forth on Instagram, I hope it's the idea of, like, my interests, my ideas, my life, and that having a partner is part of my life and not it. It is not my central achievement. So I love that part of the article. I also think when we see this in the reverse on men, we can instantly clock how loserish it is. Wife guy.

[Takara Elise]

Yeah. Yeah, right?

[Chelsea Devontez]

We see a wife guy and we go, ew. And then what? They're always.

[Takara Elise]

Keep my eye on you.

[Chelsea Devontez]

They're always cheating.

[Takara Elise]

They're always cheating.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I mean, not always, but, like, we've.

[Takara Elise]

Seen it a lot and the data. Yeah, yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Or the guy who leads with, like, I am a father to a daughter. You're like, what are you. What bank statements are you hiding?

[Takara Elise]

What?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, so I think when we see a man make the most interesting thing about himself, a woman, we can instantly clock it as sus. But because women have been taught to make the most interesting thing about themselves, a man, it is only now that we are, like, deciding, like, wait, that's not cool. So I love that. Here's what I think is weird. I think it's fucking weird to post your wedding photo and crop your husband out. Just don't post it.

[Takara Elise]

What? I'm not gonna debate you on that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But, I mean, she's like, oh, now we have, like, a hand on a steering wheel or whatever. And whatever. I'm like, sus. Sus. Worse. Yeah, you're edging. You're edging the people who follow you on what his face is gonna look like.

[Takara Elise]

Are you hiding?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Like, I. I'm totally down with, like, don't post not a part of your life. You don't care. But you're gonna post a centralized event whose entire thesis is, I have joined in romantic heterosexual union in this whatever, wedding we're talking about.

[Takara Elise]

Mm.

[Chelsea Devontez]

You're gonna crop him out. I don't understand. I don't understand. So Explain it to me, because that's what the article talks about.

[Takara Elise]

The article does talk about that. And I think it's interesting because she just posited that as fact. She's like, that this is what the girlies are doing now. And it really have a take on it, which I was like, oh, that's a missed opportunity. Because I actually do think that's weird. Either we're going for privacy or you're going to tell a complete story.

[Chelsea Devontez]

This.

[Takara Elise]

This, like, aesthetic, like, you know, my hands on the back of someone's head, and you're just like, show me the man.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Show me the man.

[Takara Elise]

Listen, as she says at the bottom of the article, there is nothing wrong with being in love. There is nothing wrong with having a romantic relationship. There's nothing wrong wanting a romantic relationship. The issue is, is thinking in this dowry, Mindse thinking, oh, my value has increased.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

Because of this.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes.

[Takara Elise]

I think that's the issue that we're sort of contending with, where we're like, ha, you know what? Now that I have a man, I'm gonna post on Instagram more. Babe, we would have loved to see you on Instagram before the guy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, yes, I wholly agree with that. I think what really struck me reading this is we've never had a higher readership in romance novels in history. We've never had a bigger desire for yearning and romance and Bridgerton balls and things that go with romance next to. It's embarrassing to post your boyfriend sometimes. I felt like the article was saying women don't want relationships at all with men. But when you look at other stats, straight women seem just as interested in romance or meeting someone wonderful or being fulfilled with whatever gender than you kind of ever have been. It's just human nature. So what do you think of that?

[Takara Elise]

You know what? I'm really glad you said straight women, because I do think that this article in particular deals with, like, this is like, a heteronormative issue, the politicization of, like, heteronormative relationships. Right. Specifically, like, how women see themselves in relationships. And so from my vantage point, you are absolutely correct. Like, we are talking about yearning. We're reading romance novels. We are picketing at studios, talking about bring back the rom coms. We are ready. But also this interesting thing that is happening is that we are sort of understanding who we are as not just human beings, but as political entities and trying to understand our own agency as people who are existing. And at this, this particular time in our world history, we are starting to understand, you Know what? Women who don't get married and don't have children seem to live a little bit longer and. And are a little bit happier than married women. So there's this conversation about is boy having a boyfriend embarrassing? Yes. We're talking about it on social media, but a lot of this, we're having this conversation because of social media. We are seeing women who are getting divorced because this is another viral article because the. The husband of 25 years ate the last piece of cake. Which is a very funny headline, but it's basically about like, you know, this woman has been putting herself on the back burner for years, and this was the last straw. And Gen Z and younger millennial women are seeing that and being like, I don't want to be a second thought.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

And so I have this yearning for romance and a real relationship, but I'm also terrified because now social media is showing me sometimes, not all the time listeners that sometimes marriage and coupledom and partnership can really take a lot out of you. And even says that having a boyfriend can take hits off a woman's aura.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Takara Elise]

Which was a really funny one. So, like, yes, there's this really interesting push and pull happening where we're realizing that sometimes, you know, being a single woman, there's a little bit more agency and happiness and freedom. And sometimes when you're a woman that's coupled, there could be a little bit more struggle. But the thing, the thing that wasn't mentioned in the article, which I'm like, is that there are plenty of straight women in relationships with men who are happy. And that's because they've taken time to take stock out of what they want out of relationship, and they've chosen accordingly. Instead of choosing someone just to say they have someone, which is the real danger. And that's why I think having a boyfriend is embarrassing. Because you've chosen someone just to say you have someone because for whatever reason you think that that increases your value and now you're deserving of attention and love and an Instagram post, which is not the case.

[Chelsea Devontez]

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[Takara Elise]

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[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay, welcome back. Let's continue the conversation. Especially like women have been told you are valuable when you can achieve a man.

[Takara Elise]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

You know, so the idea that women are. And I'm valuable without that and I don't have to post that. I love all of that. And I agree with all of that. My instant thought when reading this article, which is so selfish and sad, which is I want more rom coms. I don't want rom coms to go away. And then my second thought was, do I just feel that way? Because that's the only genre starring women.

[Takara Elise]

Oh, shit.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I was like, oh, it's the only genre that stars women and they usually get to be funny and they always end up happy.

[Takara Elise]

Oh, man.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. And then I was like, okay, so I'm not mourning the boyfriend Ness. I'm mourning this idea of like, wait a minute, romance is the only place where we get movies. So sad. Yes. So sad.

[Takara Elise]

I have never stopped to consider that. Chelsea, you're gonna have to give me a minute. I have never stopped to consider that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, so that was my second thought where I said, oh, that's why I'm having this reaction of like, I want more stories about us, but, like, our stories can exist far out of romance, right? This was me being indoctrinated into the, you know, cultural bullshit. But to thread it back to this long point, I'm trying to make romance novels fiction, rom com fiction. These are fictional worlds where we have written what a great partner can be and look like sometime to comical degrees, right? And in real life, women on the whole aren't feeling men live up to that, like romantically, you know, the Gen Z generation of men, whatever you're looking for in a partner, how they show up or not fucking ghosting all the time, that our expectations and desires aren't being met by reality. And I think that makes this a very interesting article in the sense of like, why are we not seeing articles about how men can make themselves better? Instead we're seeing articles about being like poor men. These women, they're not dating them, they're not posting them on their grams. And instead, I feel like in the reverse, they've always been like, hey, women, if you want a man, get thinner, do a bunch of horrible plastic surgery, laugh at all their jokes, stop having thoughts of your own. And there's no like, hey, men, if you want a girlfriend and you want friendship, you don't want the loneliness epidemic, Read a book, learn some social skills, be nice, whatever it is that men are missing. And I think that's an interesting part of this article as well. Having a boyfriend is cringe because a lot of women are feeling disappointed by men.

[Takara Elise]

I'm really glad that you brought that up because the crux of the article, although we do talk about it like living online social media is, is having a man embarrassing? There was, you know, a point in the article where someone was like, I had a boyfriend of 12 years, never posted him online, but the whole 12 years I'm like, I would never post him online because eventually he will do something to embarrass me, right?

[Chelsea Devontez]

And that really made me laugh.

[Takara Elise]

I was like, you got it, girl. But yeah, I think, you know, just moving this from social media to irl, that is, I think, something that women are terrified of. And there is really no school of thought helping men, you know, be better partners. Husbands, boyfriends, you're right, it really is all on women to either not have any expectations, lower their expectations, or like, be happy in their single dumb and romanticized single life instead of like holding men accountable to be better partners.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Which maybe this is what this movement is saying. I don't I don't know though. I think the idea of cropping your like it just makes me laugh. Cropping your fiance out or like blurring his face. Like that's so. It's still funny to me. I love it. It's similar to blurring your kid's face or putting a heart on your kids face, which I will say like absolutely, really respect your kids privacy. We talk about that a lot in all of the child memoir episodes. However, there's, there's someone I know who every single photo that she posts is of her and her kids. Every single one. And she covers the kids faces up and I'm sort of like, just don't post it. What is this, what is this feeling of like, I must post my wedding, but you can't see his face. I must post my boyfriend, but you can only see his hairy knuckles. And again like post here and there, like whatever, who cares? I'm saying where the entire platform is a cropping out of something else. Aren't you still making your identity girlfriend or your only identity is, you know, mother or your only identity is wife. You're just cropping out the details.

[Takara Elise]

I mean, yeah, babe, but you got to get the content.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, who am I? Listen, gotta get the, I mean, you.

[Takara Elise]

Know, if you're not going on ski trips or going on brand dinners or you know, you know, going to movie premieres or going on runs, you still want to show people like, you know, I actually have a life and I love my life and this is my life and this is my life. And you know, we're still trying to figure out privacy and surveillance culture, which is a whole, a whole different subject because in my mind I'm just like, don't post them, babe, don't post them at all. But I think if more people sort of had like the, the primer being like, hey, social media can be your truth, but maybe not with the capital T a version of it. Like have fun and don't stake your self worth on it. Regardless of a partner or not, you're gonna have a much more enjoyable time on this platform. I think people are sort of still using it in a way where they're like, okay, my value is here and the photos equal the value.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

And even, even if they're like, oh well, I don't want to be a boyfriend girl, but I still want to show people that I got chose. Which I know the word is chosen, but I think that some people are still, you know, straddling the line of wanting to make sure that People know that they're in that lane of being chosen and still wanting to be, you know, have their privacy and. Or act like they don't care, which is how we got the soft launch. Because it's like, I don't care. But I do care. I care in an aesthetic way. Now.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I cared so intensely, I had to angle him out, I think. And that's where I call bullshit, where I'm like, I think the. Is having a boyfriend cringe stuff she describes in the article doesn't actually solve the issue, which is that women still get clout for being seen as partnered. I love the idea of like, but I'm more than that. Therefore, he's not going to take up my Instagram. He's not gonna get a post. You're not gonna see his face, like, cringe like, I'm doing me. But here's one. Quotes in the article from women she interviewed. There is a part of me that would also feel guilty for sharing my partner constantly, especially when we know the dating landscape is really bad at the moment. I wouldn't want to be boastful, which is a totally different sentiment than, I'm not sharing him because this man's going to embarrass me, even though it's been 12 years. So I think there is a whole shift here, and I hope it's just the shift of women centering themselves and we're seeing that, like, flood through social media. I mean, I also think trad wife culture centers women, which is really funny to me.

[Takara Elise]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

They're the face of the account. They're making the bread. The man's not in all the videos. That's not only.

[Takara Elise]

Not only women, but, like, women's power and influence.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

Which is crazy.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I think. And I think it's also crazy to pretend to be above it and blur and blur it out while still posting it.

[Takara Elise]

I don't know. I don't know if it's an article or something else, but, you know, pretending not to care. I mean, the world is so fraught. Care, care and love it and bring it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

That's how I feel. That's what I hate about the soft launch. It's a pretending not to care, which has the exact same amount of caring as caring.

[Takara Elise]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Except more work of, like, no, I'm above it. Apathy, blah, blah. So I always bristle at it. I also. Takara, come with me into improv 101 listeners.

[Takara Elise]

Don't.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Don't turn off now. I have something important to say, which is that One of the early lessons of improv is that, like, if you get into a scene and someone's like, there's a thing, and there's this box here, and there's a thing in it. And as we know, in improv, everything's invisible. It's all object work because you're making it up. And one of the early lessons is as soon as someone says, like, oh, this thing is in a box, instantly say what it is. Because the longer this scene goes on, by the time you actually open the box in the scene or reveal what's in it, it's always gonna disappoint the audience. Because the buildup, the tension, people start projecting their expectations of what the joke is gonna be. And it never, ever lives up to what people want. It's always disappointing. Do not make your boyfriend the box.

[Takara Elise]

Cause one day that was beautiful.

[Chelsea Devontez]

He will hard launch him or they'll meet him at a real dinner party. And it's gonna be disappointing for all involved. Yeah, don't edge people on your existence is how I feel. Or just be private. Love that. Be private.

[Takara Elise]

Just be private. Just be private. I have to say, I do think this article is. It's very funny that this has come at a time where we've had two major musical projects, one from Taylor Swift, the other from Megan the Stallion, that have really put boyfriend fiance at the center of the art. You know, I'm blanking on the name of Meg's song, but the chorus is like, my man, my man, my man.

[Chelsea Devontez]

My baby, my baby.

[Takara Elise]

Like, I mean, the song is about clay.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

And then we have half an album from Taylor Swift that it's about Travis Kelce.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And notably everyone said, boo. No, thank you.

[Takara Elise]

No, really, it's true.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I'm saying her own fans were like, boo, we hate this album. Now, do we think it was actually the writing, the musicality, how quickly it came out and that it wasn't actually good? Or is it the subject matter that Taylor having a boyfriend fiance is cringe and boring and Republican and people don't want it. What do you think? Same with Meg. What do you think?

[Takara Elise]

Well, I think the Taylor Swift conversation is fraught. And you can say a lot of different things about her and the art specifically. But yes, I have to say, and I think, you know, this happens all the time. When someone who historically can make amazing, you know, quote unquote breakup music gets in a relationship, everyone's like, ah, fuck, there goes the artistic quality. Same with comedians of the album. Right. I mean, it's you know, all of us. You know, I remember, you know, for after Adele got off her marriage, people were like, excellent. Here we go. I'm like, that's insane. That's. That's great. Are you praying for her downfall because you want good music?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Not incorrect. Not incorrect. Lily Allen's new album.

[Takara Elise]

Yeah. What a. What a storyteller.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. But I also want to say, one of my favorite artists, Ray, has this song called where the Hell Is My Husband? It's like, yeah, it's a banger. I think it's interesting to point out that thrusting your boyfriend onto your Instagram as your biggest prize is no longer the thing. But I still think a lot of nuance remains as to how straight women are in relationship with romance right now.

[Takara Elise]

Yeah, there's a lot that can be nitpicked in this article, but one thing that I actually do appreciate, and I used to sort of brought it up already, is that, you know, there are other sexualities that get, you know, politicized all the time. And I think it's really interesting that we are sort of in this position where we're like, okay, straight women, what is your relationship saying and what is it doing? And I have to say, going really quickly back to Taylor Swift in particular. Her relationship has been put under a microscope not just because she's Taylor Swift, because there's this really interesting juxtaposition whether, you know, she's like, you know, I'm going to. I'm going to vote for VP Harris and sign cat lady. And then you go over to Travis Kelce, who, you know, can't say anything bad about Trump to save his life. And so it's like, the person that you're picking, are you aligning yourself with this person's politics as well? Are you overlooking these politics? It's the same thing, you know, where someone who marries, like, a hardlined racist guy, but they're like a woo woo person. They're like, well, I love him, and that's just him. And we can look past all that. And it's like, well, how can you. Well, in that regard, having a boyfriend or husband is embarrassing because how could that love sort of move you past your moral compass?

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I think that is part of this boyfriend is cringe movement in that women are always held accountable for their partner's mistakes in a way that men are rarely held accountable in reverse. I mean, it's. Listen, there's so much nuance to this that maybe it's a bad example, but it's Hillary Clinton at the debate and he's bringing Bill Clinton's assault victims on stage for her to answer for. Our producer just came in and said maybe it's also because Gen Z women vote more liberal. Gen Z men tend to vote more maga. And yeah, I think what we can really notice is the dichotomy of an article going viral is having a boyfriend cringe. At the same time an article is going viral that says, did liberal women ruin the workplace? At the same time an article is going viral saying the male loneliness epidemic is worse than ever.

[Takara Elise]

I think one of the interesting things about this article as well, in relation to maybe, you know, Gen Z younger women voting more liberal and their male identified counterparts voting more conservative, is that we aren't really taking into account that there are women who have husbands and boyfriends and who have had these partners for a very long time and who still lament men.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, well, aren't we two of them? Yeah. This is speaking to, I think, just this larger idea that you are more than your boyfriend and the coolest thing about you is not your relationship status, which that I'm like fully, fully behindfully excited about. But I think there is still value given to people who are partnered in ways that I think is still harmful, in ways that you're clocky. In ways you're cashing in on with the steering wheel photo.

[Takara Elise]

Totally. Okay, totally.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Wait, I have one. I have one last question. Do you hide your partner from social media? I do. Okay. Is it because he's cringe as hell? You know what?

[Takara Elise]

I used to post him a lot, actually, when we first got together. But then people would sort of expect that from me. And it really bummed me out. Like, I'd be doing really cool stuff, you know, doing festivals and getting on TV shows, and people would be like, where's so and so? And I'd be like, the hell?

[Chelsea Devontez]

So it was cringe. Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

You were like, that's crazy. I'm more than this. That's crazy. So moratorium on him. Like, I just, I don't do it anymore. But I also, I don't post my kids either.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I was also thinking about this. I have a tiny little anecdote, but it's stayed with me constantly, which is that I made this short film that people have probably heard about that was only three minutes long, which is.

[Takara Elise]

Some.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Would say, not a short film. It's too short to be a short film. And Yasser's given me so many incredible gifts. But one of them was he rented out a theater for me to Hold a screening of my short film, which.

[Takara Elise]

I didn't know that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, it was. It was really. Yeah, it was incredible. And it was forcing me to share this thing that I probably wasn't going to share because it was so tiny. However, it also meant that this man had paid for an hour long of fancy theater time when I had three minutes. Then at the end, I came up, and then I sincerely started a Q and a about my three minute short film. And to a hundred people who were all like, this bitch. But I had planted eight different comedians throughout the audience to ask certain questions and do certain things. So it became its own performance. So you suddenly realized you were in, like, its own showing of, like, my comedy or whatever. Okay.

[Takara Elise]

Oh, my God, that's so fun.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yassir said to me, don't thank me in your speech for gifting you this. And I was like, but I have to. I don't want to be a bitch. I gotta. I gotta say thank you. And he was like, don't do it. Everyone will give all the credit to me. And I was like, yasser, that's ridiculous. I'm the one who's gonna be standing up there for an hour. And this is the nicest gift I've ever been given. It meant so much to me. So in my speech, I said, and thank you to Yasser for renting this theater and making sure this happened. And I went to general meetings, and he went to general meetings where they told him what a great job he did putting together my presentation and cutting my stuff. And I went there and they said, how did Yassir plan that Q and A? How did Yasser cut those trailers? How did Yasser make your film happen?

[Takara Elise]

Oh, my God.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And that influences me constantly where, like, I am a loser. I will constantly post him. I would put him up a lot. And I have to stop myself because I know people will give my value away to him always. They'll always think, whatever. Anything good I ever did in life. He. He recorded this podcast today. And I think that's also something, maybe women have been picking up on that. Like, who you are will be seen through the lens of this man. All the credit will be given to this boyfriend who could embarrass you the next day. Yeah, like that. Basically, you. Your Persona instantly gets clocked into this man. If you. If you own him, not own him.

[Takara Elise]

If you claim him.

[Chelsea Devontez]

If you claim him, if you acknowledge that you have a boyfriend, your boyfriend will take over your life whether you want him to or not. And to that, it's like, okay, well then maybe you should crop him out. I don't know.

[Takara Elise]

I don't know either. You know what? It, it, it kind of bums me out because it, it's love. Love takes me there. Mini splendored thing, you know, I know. Truly, I think it's. It's wonderful to be in love. It's wonderful to have somebody. It's wonderful to feel secure in your. In your relationship, and I love that shit. If you want to shout it from the rooftops. Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. And it just really completely bums me out that we have to sort of, you know, think about the logistics of love and appreciation on social media, which is generally what, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, is what this article is about. Yes. We can get into like, you know, men in the patriarchy and what they do, what they don't do, but this article and the way in which it exists is about the logistics of being in love and being partnered online and whether or not you should choose to claim somebody online.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

And it just really bums me out because I don't want someone who is just. I just had someone who celebrated their first wedding anniversary and they've been going on for like a week and a half now. And I'm like, I fucking love that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Okay. Actually, I'm out. I'm out.

[Takara Elise]

No, no, no. Let me tell you the story.

[Chelsea Devontez]

No, this is great.

[Takara Elise]

This is great. This person was like, I don't know if love's for me. Down and out with it. You know, obviously they. They wanted this love. They wanted this great love. They were holding out. They were. And they found this person and they just can't believe it. They truly just cannot believe that this person is in their life. And I have to say, this person is also just a really great writer. And so I know it's not coming from this, like I'm doing this for social media place, but I just. I cannot believe I have this love.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

And that this love is so supportive and. And they help me do this and they teach me that and we're going on these experiences and I love that for them. I really, really do. I don't know. I'm a sucker for it. I really am. And I, I just so happen to choose to not do that.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah.

[Takara Elise]

But it doesn't mean I'm against it. It just means that I'm also in the business of show and I am using my social media in a different way. And I don't want, you know, any of my show to be about my children or my partner. But if you know me in real life, you know that I love them and I talk about them and I'll show you pictures, and I can't believe what they do. I think they're also beautiful and important and precious, But I don't think that needs to exist on social media.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. From.

[Takara Elise]

For me, personally, and I think a.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Lot of things don't need to exist on social media, but I post my dogs every day anyway, y'. All.

[Takara Elise]

All three of them.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Three of them. Okay. I know. Discussing. Okay, it is time for the click lit quiz. First question. Yeah. Can you believe.

[Takara Elise]

I can't. I can't.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Was the article well written?

[Takara Elise]

Yes.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. I say absolutely yes. Did this article make you want to scream about it to someone or other people?

[Takara Elise]

Well, I mean, you kind of blew my up, so yes, I guess it did.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah. And I don't know what's wrong with me. No, I. I don't know. I. I don't know. Is it because I'm married? I don't know. This went viral. Viral. Viral.

[Takara Elise]

Like we were dancing in the street to it.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I don't know what's in my algorithm because I still be seeing boyfriends everywhere. Now I see. I. I can specifically think of the two women who did the crop, right? And I'm like, I know those two.

[Takara Elise]

I.

[Chelsea Devontez]

But I bet I could think of, like, 30 who didn't. So I'm. I'm just kind of trying to balance it all out. I'm thinking of, like, all the young people I just worked with who don't post at all. Actually, they don't post anything. Okay.

[Takara Elise]

They're ahead of the curve.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I know. They're so cool. Okay, last question. Did reading this article deepen or elevate your thinking on the subject?

[Takara Elise]

Yes. You know what? Maybe this is affecting me in. In a certain kind of way because I'm writing something right now, and I've been truly trying to wrap my head around love and heterosexual relationships and what it means to be in love with. Please feel free to cut this out. But. But an oppressive group.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Oh, why would I cut out genius?

[Takara Elise]

So I've. You know, this idea.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Should be in love with an oppressive group. Jesus Christ.

[Takara Elise]

You know what I mean?

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, I do. I do.

[Takara Elise]

So I've been. I've been really thinking about what it means to make these choices and to love whom you love. And so this article, I think, has. Has stuck with me because it sort of lightened the mood, actually, for what has been sort of a Challenging writing assignment. I've been thinking a lot about this and, you know, wanting to champion love and wanting to tell straight women. It's. It's a choice. It's all about choice. You. You have the right to choose to be excited about. You're a man, but also, you have the right to be excited and happy, and you're single. Them. And no one should pressure you out of that if that's not what you want. But I think it truly made me think about, like, man, oh, man. Like, this is. This is kind of fraught, and I don't think it won't ever be.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yes, yes. And I want to say I agree. This article lightened it. And I love this article in the sense that, like, having a glamorous single life, that is the TV show I want to watch. I don't want to watch the boyfriend.

[Takara Elise]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Chelsea Devontez]

I want to watch the single show. And I think that that's so stunning in terms of, like, they used to be called the spinster show. She turned 21. She never met. She was an old, dusty spinster. And the idea that we're, like, celebrating that you can, like, divorce and try again and, like, you're just so valuable as a woman unattached to a man. I think that's the coolest part of this article. I feel like that's the part that went viral of just how valuable we know we are outside of a relationship status now. And in the performative way we still are. We are. We're knowing it more that you can. You can have the performance of value on social media, and it doesn't have to include a partner. Oh, I can't wait for the comments on this shit. I know. I'm gonna. We're gonna learn more.

[Takara Elise]

We're gonna learn so much more. And I. And I want to say really quickly that I agree with you. I think the part of this article that had women dancing in the street was probably, like, the last paragraph and a half where they're like, let's romanticize it. There's nothing wrong with you for being single. I think that's what people want to hear, that they don't have to wait or stop living life. That it's happening right now and it's great.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Yeah, I completely agree with you. And women rejoicing as being, like, valuable and wonderful and amazing, regardless of relationship status has nothing to do with men. It's not victimizing them. It's not attacking them. It's not even a judgment on their character. It is 100% a judgment on women have value alone, which is something we've always known about heterosexual men. That you have value alone. Alone will women do too. And I love that part of this article.

[Takara Elise]

Exactly. You get to be playboys and we have to be spinsters. Absolutely not.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Our lives too.

[Takara Elise]

Absolutely not.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Takara, tell people where to find you online. Follow you, adore you, love you. Look for photos of your emoji covered children.

[Takara Elise]

Never. But if you want to try, you can find me at takaraelise or Akara's library, where I do recap children's books because I do think adults should be reading them.

[Chelsea Devontez]

And I totally agree. Okay, see you soon.

[Takara Elise]

See you soon. Bye.

[Chelsea Devontez]

Bye. A big thank you to our senior managing producer, Christina Lopez, our executive producer, Jordan Moncada, our sound engineer, Marcus Hamm, and our amazing associate producer, Jaron Padre. I also want to give a huge thank you to our incredible partners over at Throw, Thrive Cosmetics and every plate. We will link to those brands in the show notes. Go check them out. Everything else we discussed is also linked in the show notes. And if you have questions, thoughts, comments, go to the Patreon sign up. There's a free tier. You can join. Leave a comment, chat with your fellow cookies. We will keep the book club continuing over there.