Dawn Staley: NIL, The Knicks, and Her Path to South Carolina | Glass Half Full

Summary

Glass Half Full with Craig Melvin

Episode Title: Dawn Staley: NIL, The Knicks, and Her Path to South Carolina
Air Date: April 14, 2026
Guest: Dawn Staley, Olympic gold medalist, national championship coach, and transformative figure in women’s basketball
Host: Craig Melvin

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Episode Overview

In this intimate, engaging conversation, Craig Melvin sits down with Dawn Staley to explore her path from the streets of Philadelphia to becoming a trailblazer in women’s basketball and a revered coach at the University of South Carolina. They discuss what shapes a leader, pivotal career decisions, generational shifts in athletes, the NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) era, her near-move to the NBA, and the broader impact of her work both on and off the court.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Toasting "Uncommon Favor" and Defining Moments (02:16–04:56)

• Dawn celebrates her book, “Uncommon Favor,” being a two-time bestseller: “My book being a two time bestseller, which is unimaginable, but is worthy of a toast.” (02:16)
• Staley never intended to coach—she was challenged into it: Recounts how Temple AD Dave O’Brien asked, "Can you lead?" and then challenged her: "Can you turn Temple women’s basketball program around?" (03:47–04:23)
  • Quote: “I never wanted to be a coach. Like, ever. Coaching was not in my DNA until the moment I took the job at Temple.” (02:50)
  • She took the job "to prove him wrong." (04:27)

2. Building a Program and Embracing Growth (04:56–07:22)

• She credits her players at Temple for fueling her drive: “The way they made me feel gave me stamina. It gave me a purpose.” (05:07)
• On deciding to leave Temple for South Carolina: “If I’m going to be in this profession...one of them was winning, and wanting to win made me do the uncomfortable thing, which was up and leave Temple.” (06:00)
• Advice to players about difficult choices for personal growth.

3. Childhood Origins—Philly Grit and Competitive Spirit (08:14–12:28)

• Discusses growing up playing basketball with boys, encountering tough love and lazy insults (“Tomboy... go put a skirt on” (09:41)), building “armor” through mental and physical resilience.
• Staley believes this upbringing is foundational: “There is nothing that I don’t think I can’t accomplish. It was my hood that taught me certain things and to build up this strength to endure anything.” (09:56)
• Reflects on generational parenting shifts—today’s “gentle parenting” and the importance of trusting the strength instilled at home.

4. Generational Shifts in Coaching and Athlete Resilience (14:16–17:08)

• Dawn notes drastic changes in parental involvement: “The players’ parents at Temple allowed me to coach. Like, they just said, ‘Here, she’s yours now.’” (14:16)
• Contrasts with today’s environment of agents, trainers, and frequent communication—but sees clear communication as essential.
• Emphasizes: “I want to earn your heart. Okay. And I want to earn your parent’s hearts...Because if you choose me as your coach, I’m going to give you all of me for the rest of your life.” (16:43)

5. Transforming South Carolina Women’s Basketball (17:08–20:02)

• Discusses the “mom-and-pop” approach and how fan culture—not just winning—fuels the program’s success.
  • “You don’t get the bump that we’ve gotten in attendance just by winning...The people are super nice here. Like, they come to the games more so because they like us.” (18:22–18:42)
• On cultural acceptance and breaking norms as a Philly outsider in South Carolina.

6. The Knicks & the Reality of NBA Opportunities for Women (20:19–23:44)

• Reveals she interviewed for the New York Knicks' head coaching job: “I sat down with Leon and Wes and the whole Nick organization...They didn’t offer me the job. I'll say this, Craig, they're not ready.” (20:33–21:11)
• Asserts, “No NBA team is ready for a female coach right now. You have to prepare for it culturally.” (21:16–21:22)
• Explains that female head coaches would change every aspect of a franchise, affecting all staff and requiring deliberate preparation.
• She enjoys proving herself and breaking barriers: “There’s a part of you that enjoys having to prove yourself.” (22:52)

7. Personal Life & South Carolina Living (26:14–28:14)

• Staley is a pescatarian: “When I took the job here...I’ve never had any South Carolina barbecue in my life.” (26:56–27:08)
• Teasing banter with Craig about plant-based foods and Southern credibility.

8. The Profound Impact on Community and Legacy (28:14–32:54)

• Shares emotional stories about the impact her team has had, particularly for Black fans previously marginalized on campus:
  • “People weren’t welcome on campus...the only reason they’re stepping foot on campus is to come to our games.” (29:21)
• Views herself as “indebted to this community” for changing perceptions and creating lasting economic and social value.
• Candidly discusses the financial realities and respect issues facing women’s programs: “Even though we win national championships, we are frowned upon because a big part of our budget is dedicated to our program, and we don’t see any money coming in from an NCAA standpoint.” (31:44–32:54)

9. Reflections on Legacy and Recognition (32:54–end)

• On how she hopes to be remembered: “I want to be remembered as an odds beater.” (33:02)
• Craig notes she’s already achieved that status.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Every day, I can be my authentic self. Because the goal wasn’t to be the best coach. The goal was to turn Temple women’s basketball program around.” (04:31)
• “There is nothing that I don’t think I can’t accomplish. It was my hood that taught me certain things and to build up this strength to endure anything.” (09:56)
• “I want to earn your heart...because if you choose me as your coach, I’m going to give you all of me for the rest of your life.” (16:43)
• “No NBA team is ready for a female coach right now. You have to prepare for it culturally.” (21:16–21:22)
• “When you treat people good, they treat you better.” (24:02)
• “I want our program to be revenue producing...Because we won’t get the respect that we deserve on campus.” (31:37–31:52)
• “I want to be remembered as an odds beater.” (33:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:16] Toast to “Uncommon Favor” and the challenge that launched her coaching career
• [04:56] Reflection on why she left Temple and the importance of personal growth
• [09:01] How growing up in Philly shaped her competitive edge
• [14:16] Changes in athlete culture and parental involvement
• [17:08] How she and her staff transformed the culture at South Carolina
• [20:33] The Knicks interview and talking about NBA readiness for women head coaches
• [26:14] Personal lifestyle and food preferences in South Carolina
• [28:14] Stories of impact for Black fans and her sense of legacy
• [31:37] Her vision for her program and how she wants to be remembered

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Final Thoughts

Dawn Staley’s candor, warmth, and tenacity shine throughout this conversation. She unpacks the complex journey from reluctant coach to national icon, all while maintaining deep connections to her roots, her players, and her broader community. Her vision goes well beyond wins and titles—it’s about creating spaces where people feel they belong and where barriers are broken for future generations.

For listeners and fans of leadership, sports, and cultural change, this is an episode rich in hard-won wisdom, unforgettable stories, and inspiration.

Transcript

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[Craig Melvin]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval. Hello everyone. Welcome to this edition of Glass Half Full. I'm Craig Melvin. Our next guest doesn't really need much of an introduction, but she deserves every word of one. Dawn Staley, of course, Olympic gold medalist, national championship winning coach and he's has transformed the game in myriad ways, not just in South Carolina. I'm talking about women's sports at large. We should note we had this conversation before that, shall we say, sort of public back and forth with Gino Auriemma. But this is a pretty fascinating conversation even without talking about that. So I hope you enjoy this edition of Class Half Full Coach Don Staley. You know we like to start the podcast with a toast. I'm a brown nectar of the gods guy, so I've got my bourbon. I know you're in season, so you do not. Nonetheless, we're going to toast. What would Dawn Staley like to celebrate and toast to?

[Dawn Staley]

Today I'm going to celebrate and toast Uncommon Favor. My book being a two time bestseller, which is unimaginable but is worthy of a toast.

[Craig Melvin]

Cheers. Here, here to that. To Uncommon Favor. The book and just God's uncommon favor in general. Is there one moment that stands out above the others? A moment that fundamentally changed you.

[Dawn Staley]

I will have to say this. I never wanted to be a coach. Like ever. Coaching was not in my DNA until the moment I took the job at Temple because I was challenged to take the job. The late great. I call him the late great. AD at Temple at the time, Dave o' Brien asked me two questions during an interview that I didn't know I was being interviewed. Like, go figure. He asked me to come in and just talk to him and have a conversation with him, because I. I told him I wasn't interested in coaching two or three times prior to me actually meeting him. And then when I met him, he asked me two questions, and one of them was, can you lead? And I'm looking at this man. I'm like, can I lead? Like, what? Kind of, like, my bubble talk? And, you know, for me, I wear my heart on my. On my shoulders.

[Craig Melvin]

I know. I know.

[Dawn Staley]

So I probably looked at him with a weird face, and just basically, I was like, I've been the captain on virtually every team that I've been on. I think I can lead.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

But it was the next question that got me. He said, can you turn Temple women's basketball program around? And I'm looking around like, is that a challenge? Like, does he really know me, know me, that I'm drawn to challenges? And then, Craig, I took the job, like, two weeks later, and now it's 25 years later.

[Craig Melvin]

And I know you only took the job to prove him wrong.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes. Yes. Huh.

[Craig Melvin]

I never knew that.

[Dawn Staley]

Like, I didn't see myself being a career coach. And it's. And it's probably the best way for me to go into something, because every day, I can be my authentic self. Because the goal wasn't to be the best coach. The goal was to. To turn Temple women's basketball program around. That was the goal.

[Craig Melvin]

Was there a moment at Temple where you realized, okay, okay, this is different. I'm creating something. I'm creating something special.

[Dawn Staley]

I credit my former players, my former Temple players who really looked up to me. They really played hard for me. They become some of my best friends. The way they made me feel gave me stamina. It gave me a purpose. And I thought that, hey, I'm having such a great time, and with this now, I want to win. Like, I want to win. They. I want to win a national championship. But I didn't think we could do it at Temple because we would. Yeah, we would get. We would get out talented. Yeah, we did. We outworked people, but people out talented us in the NCAA tournament.

[Craig Melvin]

And is that one of the reasons that you thought, you know what, Now's the moment to head south?

[Dawn Staley]

It was. It was kind of the frustrating part of it, because if I'm going to be in this profession, right. And because I chose coaching, I got more, like, aspirations to do more within the sport. And one of them was winning. One of them was winning. That was a. You know, winning probably or wanting to win made me do the uncomfortable thing, which was up and leave Temple up and leave the very beautiful people that. That entrusted me with their careers. So I had to. I had a room full of tearful faces when I decided to take this job. And I told them, I vividly remember that I told them, there's going to come a time in your life, no matter how old or young you are, that you're going to have to do things for the greater good of you, the greater good of your career. That's going to hurt people, but it's not the type of hurt that stays with them because they'll see the bigger picture once it's all said and done.

[Craig Melvin]

You know, it's funny you say that, Coach. Cause I remember when I left Columbia, you were going to Columbia. I was leaving Columbia and I was 28 and my whole family was there. My whole family's still there. My grandma could watch me on TV every night doing the evening news. And I remember, remember when I said to my grandma, you know, I think I'm going to take this job in local news in D.C. and my grandma was like, wow, I bought a house. I was dating this girl. Like, I put down roots. And I think for them, like, it got no better. And I was stepping out on faith. And I didn't know if it was going to work out, but I just felt like I needed to go to grow. And I also felt like there were a lot of people at the time who were like, go with God. You're leaving a good thing. And, you know, it's. It's kind of worked out for both of us.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Craig Melvin]

You know, I want to go back to the. I want to go back to the. To the beginning, if you will. Because what I've always loved about your story, and there are people like this, Jordan's like this, Tigers like this, and other non athletes as well. Some people don't fully appreciate the obsession with winning, the obsession with being the best, the obsession with competition. And I get the sense for you that may have started somewhat at an early age. How did young dawn playing basketball with a bunch of boys on the streets of Philadelphia, how did that contribute to this?

[Dawn Staley]

I don't think there would be a this if it wasn't for that. Just growing up, playing with the guys, because it teaches you more about even just winning. The guys were guys in every sense. One, they. They made me persevere not just on the court because, you know, you could be physical. Yes, that's part of it. But the mental, the mental games that they put you through, they don't, they don't pick you at first, right? They, they call you names. This is, this is a rite of passage.

[Craig Melvin]

What'd they call you, What'd they call you?

[Dawn Staley]

Tomboy? You know, go put a skirt on. They did all that, that, that corny stuff. That ain't no depth to that. It wasn't even really no depth to it.

[Craig Melvin]

Just. Just lazy. Lazy insults.

[Dawn Staley]

Right.

[Craig Melvin]

Lazy.

[Dawn Staley]

Right. So it was that, like it was those type of things. But I built up such great, like, armor for when I left the neighborhood. Yeah. Like, there's nothing just from, from those times with the guys. There is nothing that I don't think I, I can't accomplish. It was my hood that, that taught me certain things and, and to build up this strength to endure anything. I don't think young people are built that way nowadays because, like, you know, most parents, they don't want their kids to go through anything. They don't want them to hurt.

[Craig Melvin]

But coach, don't you think some of that comes from. I mean, listen, you grew up hard. I didn't grow up as hard. But, you know, like, if my parents hugged me or said, I love you, it was a big deal. Like, it, like it was a special occasion. And now like a random Tuesday afternoon, it's a special occasion. Like everything's special. And so we went from this, you know, this idea of, oh, kids are fine, let them figure it out on their own. And now to your point, the pendulum swings back and this gentle parenting. We don't want them to suffer. We want to take care of all of their problems. And there's been this overcorrection and I don't. I mean, I feel like it may have been well intentioned. I don't know, maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was just guilt.

[Dawn Staley]

Some of it is parents inability to trust the foundation that they instill in their kids. You have to be like you, you have to trust that. Like if you, if you were. If you're parenting the way you're. You're supposed to parent and you feel good about, you know, those lessons in house, you know, you should, you should be okay. Yeah, you should be okay. Allow the work that you put in as a parent. Go to work.

[Craig Melvin]

And you know what? Our parents did that. Now that you say that.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Craig Melvin]

Like your mom, my mom. I don't know if they did it knowingly. I don't know if they were aware of what they were doing, but they did sort of trust that whatever system they created that we were going to be fine. They didn't second guess it.

[Dawn Staley]

Right.

[Craig Melvin]

That's an interesting point.

[Dawn Staley]

And I will say this. And they knew when to step in.

[Craig Melvin]

Yes. And it wasn't often, right? They didn't step in often.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes, yes, yes. So. So, I mean, part of that is just trust. Like, it's okay to fail at times as long as you understand the lesson behind the failure.

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Craig Melvin]

when we come back. Have you noticed as a coach a difference between players and their resiliency, their attitude? Players that you coached at Temple when you first started versus players you coach now.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah, there's a huge difference. Here's the difference. The players, parents at Temple allowed me to coach. Like, they just, they say here, she's yours now. You know, you got her.

[Craig Melvin]

Versus now. What is it like now?

[Dawn Staley]

Oh, versus now. You gotta sit down and have a. You gotta sit down and have a conversation with parents, the agents, the trainers, like, everybody. And you know what, Craig? I don't even mind that. I don't mind that, really.

[Craig Melvin]

Not a little bit.

[Dawn Staley]

I don't mind it because I like to be clear. Like, I like to communicate very clearly. I like to know what people are saying and doing. Because ultimately you're going to make my job harder if we're not on the same page.

[Craig Melvin]

But isn't there a small part of you sometimes that does think, you know what? I'm Dawn Staley. I've won Olympic gold medals, I've won championships as a player, as a coach. Like, I do not have to sit here and entertain this nonsense. There's never part of you that thinks, come on, trust me, trust me, I'm Dawn.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah. No, that doesn't even come into play. It really doesn't. Like. Like it means nothing to them. Like it means.

[Craig Melvin]

But shouldn't it, shouldn't it mean something?

[Dawn Staley]

It should. Like. Like, like if I'm a young person making a decision on, on who's going to be in my life forever, who's going to teach me, who has produced professionals, who has basically 100% graduation rate. Like all of these things. Not, damn the Olympic gold medals, Damn the coach in the Olympic games. If you're just talking about me as a coach and what I've been able to produce, it would be, it would be a no brainer. Like I should be, I should be turning folks away.

[Craig Melvin]

Yes.

[Dawn Staley]

Right. No, no. But, but I like to work for whatever I get, too. Like, I don't want anybody to give me anything. Like, don't give me anything. Because if somebody gives you something, you owe them, they expect something back.

[Craig Melvin]

Yep.

[Dawn Staley]

And I don't, I don't want that. I want to earn. I want to earn your heart. Okay. And I want to earn your parents hearts. I want to earn your trainer's hearts. I want to earn that part of it. Because if, if you choose me as your coach, I'm going to give you all of me. Like, you get all of me for the rest of your life. Whether you want me or you don't want me, you're always going to have me as a resource.

[Craig Melvin]

I remember, I think, that before you started coaching at South Carolina, I had probably been to two women's basketball games, and now they're all sellouts. They're on TV every week. You know, what you've created and how much people appreciate what you've created down there especially. But that required a culture change. And I don't want to sugarcoat it, but basically you took generations of losing, and in the span of a few years, you turned them into winners.

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[Craig Melvin]

How did you do it? How difficult was it?

[Dawn Staley]

I mean, it was very difficult because when, when you're in a. When you're in A winning or losing run. Those are your habits, and that's what you're used to. And you. You're so afraid to change and to do something different because, you know, people don't really, like, change, no matter what it is. So, I mean, it really took mom and popping this. Like, really. We momed and popped it.

[Craig Melvin]

What do you mean? What do you mean?

[Dawn Staley]

You don't get the bump that we've gotten in attendance just by winning. So the. The culture shift was. I mean, the people are super nice here. Like, I. They come to the games more so. Because they like us.

[Craig Melvin]

Yes.

[Dawn Staley]

They really. Whether we win or lose. Yes. They feel it. But it's more. Yeah, it's more.

[Craig Melvin]

But. But, but. But that's. That's a remarkable thing, because I remember growing up there.

[Dawn Staley]

You.

[Craig Melvin]

You did. First of all, you didn't go to women's sports if you were a dude. You just didn't go. That wasn't even. And with all due respect, Coach, I mean, you know, you're from Philly, a little rough around the edges. You don't really look and sound like South Carolina.

[Dawn Staley]

Right, Right.

[Craig Melvin]

And then all of a sudden, you come in and it's like, oh, my God, she's winning, and people love her.

[Dawn Staley]

One of our fams, his grandma, told him this. A Southern woman, South Carolinian grandmother, said, when you treat people good, they treat you better. And it's so true. It's so very true. Like, I think we have been accessible to all the people here in South Carolina. Like, I've had opportunity to leave here. Like, I have several, several, several opportunities. And I'm like, there is no better place to work. There's no better place to live.

[Craig Melvin]

Coach, I hear you. However, if you know, I mean, you know, a couple national championships from now, and you get the right call from a WNBA team, is there not a part of you that wouldn't entertain the conversation?

[Dawn Staley]

At least not one ounce? Not wnba.

[Craig Melvin]

Oh, oh, but if an NBA team called, you would take the call.

[Dawn Staley]

I entertained the Knicks job. Like, I did. I did.

[Craig Melvin]

How far along did that conversation get?

[Dawn Staley]

I came up there and interviewed. I sat down with Leon and Wes and the whole Nick organization for. I mean, I went through the process like. Like every candidate on their list came and sat down with them, had lunch, discussed. I mean, was interviewed, got up on a whiteboard. No, they didn't offer me the job. I'll say this, Craig, that they're not ready.

[Craig Melvin]

What do you mean?

[Dawn Staley]

Like, no NBA team is ready for a female coach right now.

[Craig Melvin]

Not One. Not one.

[Dawn Staley]

Not one. One. You have to prepare for it. You can't just.

[Craig Melvin]

How do you prepare for it?

[Dawn Staley]

Culturally. You have to prepare for it culturally. Culturally. Because I did ask questions like, how would you hiring me impact your job on a daily basis? Because it would. It would. It would. It would impact the media. It would impact, like, the owner. Why would you do such a thing? You know, they have to take on more than the norm if they hire a male. And you have to prepare your franchise for that.

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

Not. Not just your players, of course. They have to be in agreement that this is the best thing for the franchise. You have to get. The GM is going to be asked questions that they've never been asked before. The president, the owner, like, all of the staff members. I mean, I think it would be a great thing, though. I think. I think having a woman's touch around any franchise is going to help. Culturally. Yes.

[Craig Melvin]

Let me ask you this, because you seem. You didn't seem as open to the idea of being a WNBA coach, but you. You did seem to kind of get excited about the prospect of being an NBA coach. Why is that?

[Dawn Staley]

I actually enjoyed the interview process. I did. I enjoyed. I enjoy talking culture.

[Craig Melvin]

Is that. Is that because Dawn Staley likes. There's a part of you that enjoys having to. To prove yourself?

[Dawn Staley]

Yes.

[Craig Melvin]

To. To break down these barriers?

[Dawn Staley]

I do. I do.

[Craig Melvin]

At least Yourself.

[Dawn Staley]

Where. Yeah, I did get excited about the Knicks job. I did. I got excited more so than I've ever had any. Any NBA, because I interviewed for the Trailblazers job during the pandemic, like in 20 or 20, 21.

[Craig Melvin]

If the right NBA team came along, would you consider it? Well, you have to say yes. You've interviewed for two jobs.

[Dawn Staley]

Well, here's what I'm doing, Craig. I'm putting it out there so NBA franchises can get ready for a female coach.

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[Dawn Staley]

I might not be the one, but I'm letting people know that you have to prepare. If you're gonna hire a female coach, you have to prepare. You can't just hire the coach and then prepare because it's a. It's. It'll be a rocky road for. For everybody. For, like, every person that. Because they're gonna be. They have to deal with things that they don't normally have to deal with because it's a female head coach.

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Dawn Staley]

There comes a time when you have to take action, when you have to choose your own destiny. Why?

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[Dawn Staley]

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[Am I Doing It Wrong? Podcast Host]

And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're going to be right here to help you do them better.

[Dawn Staley]

Love y'. All. When people are meant for each other, they will always find a way back to each other. Your favorite islanders said, goodbye, Fiji.

[Craig Melvin]

Our lives have all changed. We're all doing great things.

[Dawn Staley]

It's like we've known each other forever.

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And hello, real life.

[Craig Melvin]

Everybody has this bad perception of me overnight.

[Hulu The Testaments Advertiser]

Loser. Such a loser. Get out.

[Dawn Staley]

And they're still standing on business. There's a lot of teas. I didn't even tell you guys. NYA Phillies was going to be for Alma. Girl, when is it ever? Drama Free Love island beyond the Villa new season premieres April 15, only on Peacock.

[Craig Melvin]

We'll be right back. Let's talk about favorite things about South Carolina. Not the. Not the. Not the program, but the state.

[Dawn Staley]

Yep.

[Craig Melvin]

Food.

[Dawn Staley]

You know, I can't. I. I can't even get the whole gist of the food because I don't eat meat.

[Craig Melvin]

I don't think I knew this.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Craig Melvin]

See you're a vegetarian.

[Dawn Staley]

Pescatarian.

[Craig Melvin]

I said just fish.

[Dawn Staley]

Yeah. So I need. I need them to make. You know how they make the barbecue?

[Craig Melvin]

Yeah.

[Dawn Staley]

I need them to do that. I need them to shred up some salmon.

[Craig Melvin]

Look, nobody wants that. Nobody's gonna. You would be the only one that ate that.

[Dawn Staley]

I'm sure I won't be. I just got the Right. I got to get the right chef to cook it.

[Craig Melvin]

Why. Why did you. When did you become a pescatarian?

[Dawn Staley]

When I took the job here. Seriously. Like, I've never had any South Carolina barbecue, like, in your life? In my life.

[Craig Melvin]

Oh, Coach.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes. Well, here's what happened. One of our assistant coaches at the time wanted to lose some weight, so she said, I'm gonna give up meat. And I. And I said, I'll do it with you. And I never went back.

[Craig Melvin]

Do you feel lighter? Do you feel different?

[Dawn Staley]

I feel good. I didn't eat a whole lot of meat anyway. Every now and then I would have a steak. But, you know, I've. I've gotten. I've gotten, you know, some replacements. Like. Like, there's some. There's some. There's some plant based hot dogs that are pretty darn good.

[Craig Melvin]

Stop. Stop it, stop it, stop it, stop it.

[Dawn Staley]

Seriously.

[Craig Melvin]

You about to lose your south car. They're going to come take it. They're going to let you. Coach, you're taking your South Carolina card. This is something about Dawn Staley. I did. But, you know, it's interesting because. And this is going to sound like a generalization or a stereotype, because sometimes I see you on the sideline and you seem so intense and kind of aggressive. I just assume that you were eating steak, like, every other night.

[Dawn Staley]

No, I must be starving myself from steak.

[Craig Melvin]

That's what it is. That's also what it is. Coach, is there a moment that you look back on that taught you how much your legacy there has mattered and matters?

[Dawn Staley]

Yes, I'll say this, and it comes from black people. And I was at an event last night where I met. Actually, I met the first black woman who. Who was in education here in South Carolina. Like, I forget her name, but I met her at the event last night, and she told me that she had never been. She had never been to any sporting events. She. She actually said she wasn't welcome here. She was a student here, but people were really mean. People were degrading. And she was like, now. She said, I lost my season tickets, you know, during the pandemic to get the lower bowl. She's like, now I'm just way up high in the nosebleeds. But I still come because I'm supporting you. If I heard that story once, I heard that story a thousand times that, you know, black people weren't welcome on campus. They couldn't walk through campus, and the only reason they're stepping foot on campus is to come to our games. Yes, Like, I've heard this so many times, and it's unbelievable. Like, I. You know, that's why I feel so indebted to this community, because we were able to do something that historically has never been done, is to make everybody feel welcomed to. And I know. And to create revenue for this town, like, this city. And sometimes people lose sight of, you know, the amount of money I make or our assistant coaches make or how much money we spend on our program. Yet I think the city's happy. Right.

[Craig Melvin]

There have been some stories written about the economic impact of Dawn Staley and the Carolina women's basketball program. Which former player surprised you the most on or off the court?

[Dawn Staley]

Oh, my goodness. Probably Alicia Gray. She's a chameleon. She's a winner. So she's gonna be able to play any different style and adapt to any coach. And she was one that didn't talk a whole lot while she was here. And now she's utilizing her voice, and she's becoming, like, an incredible woman.

[Craig Melvin]

Something else I'm curious about. What do you think your players say about Dawn Staley when you're not in the room?

[Dawn Staley]

Oh, that I'm crazy. Yeah, they do. They think I'm crazy. Here's the thing. Because Craig, I give everything his own place. So if something funny's happening in this second and then the next second, something that gets under my skin, Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde, I'm gonna give it. I'm gonna give it the energy that it deserves. So that could be. That could be deep crazy.

[Craig Melvin]

What is that one moment that Dawn Staley is still chasing?

[Dawn Staley]

Well, I want our program to be revenue producing.

[Craig Melvin]

That's an odd answer.

[Dawn Staley]

I do.

[Craig Melvin]

But you could make the argument the program is revenue producing, but just not in the traditional sense. No.

[Dawn Staley]

Yes. Yes, I just said that. But in a traditional sense. Here's why. Because we won't get the respect that we deserve on campus. Right. We don't. Like in our athletics department. We are. We are. Look, even though we win national championships, we are frowned upon because a big part of our budget is dedicated to our. Our program, and we don't see any money coming in from a. From an NCAA standpoint, like, I'll say this, men's basketball, they can go to the NCAA tournament or not and still receive money from their tournament. And it. It doesn't hit as hard when they don't go to the tournament. If we don't go to the tournament, if we don't win a national championship, then that in the red hits a lot heavier and you're not respected in that way.

[Craig Melvin]

What is the one moment that you hope people remember you for?

[Dawn Staley]

I really don't have one moment. I want to be remembered as an odds beater.

[Craig Melvin]

I think it's safe to say you already are. But I mean, that's, I mean, okay, you could check that off the box. You might need to find a new moment, but okay, I'll let you have that. Coach, this was great.

[Dawn Staley]

Always.

[Craig Melvin]

I so enjoyed this. And you're so. You're refreshingly honest too.

[Dawn Staley]

You're the best, Craig.

[Craig Melvin]

I don't know about that, but thank you. Well, there you have it. Dawn Staley. You know, I've always enjoyed coaches candor. Not just about basketball, but about life in general. And I hope you, I hope you enjoyed that part of our conversation as well. And if you know anything about Dawn STALEY Losing the UCLA by 28 points, it is going to sit with her the entire off season. And you can best bet she's probably figuring out some ways to smack back next year. By the way, the book, Uncommon Favor, it's still out. Lots of people love it, myself included. So if you can grab a copy, grab a copy. Until then, the corporate overlords here at 30 Rock encourage me to encourage you to download, subscribe, like, comment and share. Got all five. Boom. Hope you enjoyed this edition of Glass Half Full. Until next time, today's episode of Glass Half Full with Craig Melvin is produced by Sadie Bass, Tyreen Nobles and Jarrett Crawford, along with Lilia Wood. Ali Straim is our editor and Giuliana Mastarelli is our audio engineer. Arianna Davis and Ashley Kodiani are our executive producers. Additional production support is provided by Anne Legamayo, Megan Sarnacki, Bailey Koronis, and Lily Colhane.

[Elizabeth Day]

Hello, I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of how to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the things in life that haven't gone right and what, if anything, we've learned from those mistakes to help us succeed better. Each week, my guest learned Share three failures, sparking intimate, thought provoking and funny conversations you'll hear from a diverse range of voices sharing what they've learned through their failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new episode each week. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.