BBC speaks to anti-Putin Russian journalist

Summary

Global News Podcast – August 13, 2026

Host: Oliver Conway, BBC World Service
Main Focus: Interview with anti-Putin Russian journalist Dmitry Muratov and other major global updates.

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on an exclusive interview with Nobel Peace Prize-winning Russian journalist Dmitry Muratov, who remains one of the few public critics of Vladimir Putin amid Russia’s ongoing war in Ukraine. The episode also features global news highlights, including a record-breaking solar eclipse, White House staff changes, Eurovision rule updates, immigration enforcement tools in the US, Australian disability policy reforms, a quirky petanque shoe invention, and more.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dmitry Muratov: Defiance Against the Kremlin

[01:31–07:11]

• Setting:
  Steve Rosenberg meets Muratov at the near-empty offices of Novaya Gazeta in Moscow, now shutdown by authorities.
• Current Status of Independent Media:
  • Muratov notes almost all non-state media have been closed.
  • Many dissenters and "opinion leaders" have been labelled as "enemies of the state," "foreign agents," "extremists," or "terrorists."
  • “A minimum of 1500 people are now in prison since the beginning of the special military operation, having spoken out against current state policy.” — Dmitry Muratov [02:05]
• On Russia’s War in Ukraine:
  • Muratov sharply questions whether Russia has achieved its stated security aims:
    “Go on, tell me, has security increased with the Wildberries warehouses being attacked by Ukrainian drones, the petrol crisis disrupted mobile Internet communications, the political prisoners. Has security increased here or not?” — Dmitry Muratov [03:07]
  • He believes victory is impossible:
    "There will never be victory. It can't be a victory when two Slavic nations have ripped a million people to shreds." — Dmitry Muratov [03:41]
    • Russia can destroy Ukraine but cannot conquer it without a catastrophic nuclear escalation.
• Escalation and Nuclear Weapons Talk:
  • Muratov underscores the danger of frequent nuclear strike rhetoric in Russian media:
    "Since the beginning of the year, the need to use nuclear weapons has been mentioned over 500 times." — Dmitry Muratov [04:45]
  • He cautions that so-called experts on Putin's intentions are unreliable:
    "All those political experts who say Putin thinks this, Putin must have decided so and so. They're all charlatans. Nobody knows what's going on in Vladimir Putin's head." — Dmitry Muratov [04:45]
• Risks for Dissenters:
  • Muratov has been designated a "foreign agent" — limiting his rights and designed to foster social suspicion.
  • He shifts focus to political prisoners, highlighting personal stories, including the pianist Pavel Kushnir who died on hunger strike in pre-trial detention.
  • On his own safety as a Nobel laureate, he deflects:
    “This is not a question for me. So please, whenever you have the opportunity, ask the authorities that question.” — Dmitry Muratov [06:33]
• Support and Public Sentiment:
  • Muratov reports that, although Russians often stay silent out of fear, many quietly support his work:
    "They are spoken in a whisper. But what people think is very important." — Dmitry Muratov [06:47]
• Summary:
  Rosenberg concludes by observing "shafts of light in an otherwise bleak picture for critics of the Kremlin." [07:05]

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2. Ukraine Agrees to Limit Drone Strikes on Russian Oil Infrastructure

[07:11–09:36]

• Ukraine reportedly agreed to halt drone attacks on oil tankers in Novorossiysk, Russia, after a request from US Vice President JD Vance.
• The US request was motivated by concerns over global oil prices and investments by major companies (Chevron, ExxonMobil) in the Caspian Pipeline Consortium.
• The phone call between Vance and Zelenskyy occurred shortly after a White House meeting; similar requests had been relayed earlier.
• Broader context: Previous US-Iran tensions in the Strait of Hormuz have heightened US sensitivity to oil market disruptions.

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3. Caroline Levitt Steps Down as White House Press Secretary

[09:36–13:54]

• Caroline Levitt, the youngest ever White House press secretary, will leave at month's end to focus on family.
• Levitt, 28, became known for combative exchanges with press and strong defense of President Trump’s policies.
• Tom Bateman (Washington correspondent) observes Levitt’s mix of backstage professionalism and aggressive public persona: “She has not refrained from holding back to lash out at reporters… which has been really quite concerning...for those that believe in the freedom of the press." — Tom Bateman [11:53]
• The departure is being "managed carefully," indicative of a more disciplined White House compared to earlier Trump terms.
• Levitt will remain in an outside advisory role.

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4. Solar Eclipse Captivates Europe

[13:54–16:38]

• The most significant solar eclipse in Europe in decades was enjoyed by millions across Iceland, Greenland, Portugal, and Spain.
• Emotional, awe-inspired reactions from attendees:
  • "Oh, my goodness. I have literally got goosebumps. It's not just from the cold. It's about the spectacle that I've just witnessed. This reminds us of what it is to be human, that we are a small planet in a vast cosmos.” — Pahlav Ghosh, BBC science correspondent [14:27]
  • “It was surreal. It just feels like you're in a movie. Everything stands still... something out of body experience.” — Wendy Urquhart [15:59]
  • “Definitely something I'm going to remember for the rest of my life.” — Fran’s family member [16:09]

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5. US ICE to Adopt ‘Stun Gloves’ Amid Immigration Crackdown

[17:22–18:28]

• US Immigration and Customs Enforcement will spend $20 million on new gloves capable of delivering 380-volt electric shocks.
• Manufacturers claim it induces compliance in under three seconds.
• Civil liberties groups warn of abuse risk and lack of accountability.
• Agency says agents face mounting assaults; gloves are not for use on children, pregnant women, or the elderly.

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6. Australian Disability Scheme Under Pressure

[18:28–22:49]

• The National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS), supporting over 700,000 Australians, faces major reforms due to ballooning costs.
• Disability advocates fear cuts will harm critical supports and force people back to institutionalized “ghettos.”
• "To live a good life is something we all deserve. It's a human right.” — Fran’s mother, Tracey Lee [20:25]
• Attempts to address provider fraud are acknowledged, but experts argue fraud savings are minor relative to the scale of program challenges.

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7. Eurovision Song Contest Bars Wartime Hosts

[22:49–24:48]

• Eurovision will prohibit countries engaged in armed conflicts from hosting the contest.
• Rule is interpreted as a response to boycotts over Israel’s participation due to the Gaza war. Ukraine is also affected.
• The new rule removes the obligation for a replacement host to share hosting with the winning country, changing the precedent set in 2023.

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8. Debate Over ‘Surge Pricing’ for Public Toilets in the UK

[24:48–26:52]

• Some English councils have considered dynamic or surge pricing for public toilets, similar to peak pricing for events or parking.
• Raymond Martin (British Toilet Association) opposes surge pricing, emphasizing access and equality, and advocating for central government funding.
• "This is about human rights, this is about equality, it's about looking after people with disabilities." — Raymond Martin [26:29]

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9. Magnetic Espadrilles for Petanque Become Global Hit

[26:52–29:31]

• In southern France, shoe designer Olivier Gelli created espadrilles with magnets to pick up heavy petanque balls—initially as a joke, but now a global success (40,000 pairs sold).
• Future innovations may include built-in bottle openers and cap pockets.
• “At first it was just for fun. It was really a joke among friends. Then little by little, I started adding a tape measure at the front and finding a magnet.” — Olivier Gelli [28:24]
• Discussion of their popularity in America and playful fears of cheating with magnetic shoes.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dmitry Muratov on the war in Ukraine:
  "There will never be victory. It can't be a victory when two Slavic nations have ripped a million people to shreds." [03:41]
• Steve Rosenberg sums up the oppression of Kremlin critics, describing “shafts of light in an otherwise bleak picture.” [07:05]
• Solar eclipse reactions:
  • “This reminds us of what it is to be human, that we are a small planet in a vast cosmos.” — Pahlav Ghosh [14:27]
  • “You feel emotional... it's definitely something I'm going to remember for the rest of my life.” — Fran’s family member [16:09]
• On disability supports in Australia:
  “To live a good life is something we all deserve. It's a human right.” — Tracey Lee [20:25]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dmitry Muratov Interview & Russia/Ukraine Analysis: 01:31–07:11
• Ukraine Halts Attacks on Oil Infrastructure: 07:11–09:36
• White House Press Secretary Resigns: 09:36–13:54
• Solar Eclipse in Europe: 13:54–16:38
• US ICE Stun Gloves: 17:22–18:28
• Australian Disability Policy: 18:28–22:49
• Eurovision Rule Change: 22:49–24:48
• UK Toilet Surge Pricing Debate: 24:48–26:52
• Petanque Espadrille Invention: 26:52–29:31

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a sweeping look at both global flashpoints and smaller, quirky stories, anchored by a courageous interview with Dmitry Muratov, who powerfully articulates the bleakness—but also the resilience—of Russian independent voices. Listeners gain urgent insights into world affairs, from shifting US-Ukraine relations to the fight for disability rights in Australia, all presented in the BBC’s signature concise, balanced tone.

Transcript

[Oliver Conway]

This is the global news podcast from the BBC World Service. Hello, I'm Oliver Conway. This edition is published in the early hours of Thursday 13 August. A Russian Nobel Peace Prize winner tells the BBC President Putin will never win the war in Ukraine. Caroline Levitt steps down as White House press secretary. And it's gone. We are in darkness.

[Pahlav Ghosh]

It was really, really amazing. It went too quickly for me.

[Wendy Urquhart]

It was surreal, something out of body experience.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

It's definitely something I'm going to remember for the rest of my life.

[Oliver Conway]

Millions across Europe enjoy a solar eclipse. Also in this podcast, a rule change to stop war torn countries hosting the Eurovision Song Contest. And how much would you pay to use a public loo? Vladimir Putin thought his invasion of Ukraine would be a brief military operation. That was four and a half years ago. Russia has suffered big losses on the battlefield, while Ukrainian drone attacks on its oil facilities and on wild berries, Russia's version of Amazon, are causing economic pain in Russia. Public criticism of the authorities carries a risk. But one man who continues to speak out is journalist and Nobel laureate Dmitry Muratov. In Moscow, he sat down for an exclusive interview with our Russia editor, Steve Rosenberg.

[Steve Rosenberg]

I meet Dmitry Muratov at Novaya Gazeta, the independent newspaper he co founded in the 1990s. I'm struck by the emptiness, empty corridors, deserted offices. He tells me that really there is no newspaper anymore. The authorities have revoked its license and blocked its website in Russia. But at a time when independent voices here are being silenced, Mr. Muratov is still speaking out, not without risk.

[Dmitry Muratov]

Almost all non state media outlets have shut. Most opinion leaders have been declared enemies of the state. Foreign agents, extremists or terrorists. Figures vary, but a conservative estimate is that a minimum of 1500 people are now in prison since the beginning of the special military operation. Having spoken out against current state policy,

[Steve Rosenberg]

Novay Gazeta built a reputation for fearless reporting on corruption and human rights abuses in Russia. As a result, in 2021, Dmitry Muradov won the Nobel Peace Prize for defending freedom of expression. Just a few weeks later, the world changed. In February 2022, Vladimir Putin announced Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine. As he put it, to ensure Russia's security.

[Dmitry Muratov]

Go on, tell me, has security increased with the Wildberries warehouses being attacked by Ukrainian drones, the petrol crisis disrupted mobile Internet communications, the political prisoners. Has security increased here or not,

[Steve Rosenberg]

the so called special military operation has become the bloodiest conflicts in Europe since World War II. President Putin continues to predict a Russian victory. Dmitry Muratov is skeptical.

[Dmitry Muratov]

Understand this. There will never be victory. It can't be a victory when two Slavic nations have ripped a million people to shreds. It seems to me that the situation with Ukraine now is this. You can destroy it, but you cannot conquer it. What do I mean by destroy? Continued escalation all the way to nuclear war.

[Steve Rosenberg]

This year I've heard several Russian commentators championing the idea of a nuclear strike on the West. For example, the ultra conservative oligarch Konstantin Malafeev outlined what he called a good scenario for Russia. It included the use of a nuclear weapon. Some dismiss such talk as empty threats. But Dmitry Muratov points out no one really knows what the President is thinking or planning.

[Dmitry Muratov]

All those political experts who say Putin thinks this, Putin must have decided so and so. They're all charlatans. Nobody knows what's going on in Vladimir Putin's head. I see things only as a journalist. I study big data. And since the beginning of the year, the need to use nuclear weapons has been mentioned over 500 times.

[Steve Rosenberg]

The Russian state has designated Dmitry Muradov a foreign agent, a label often used here to punish critics of the Kremlin. They're banned from taking part in elections and from teaching. It's also designed to create the sense in society of an enemy within. But Mr. Muratov prefers to focus not on his problems, but on those of his compatriots who are in jail.

[Dmitry Muratov]

What worries me most right now is that no one in the world has any interest in the political prisoners who were the first to speak out against the land grab in our neighboring country.

[Steve Rosenberg]

From a folder, he takes out a stack of photos of Russians behind bars. There's a journalist, a local councillor, a 70 year old pediatrician and a pianist, Pavel Kushnir, who was arrested after posting anti war videos. There's a second photo of the pianist in a coffin. Pavel Kushnir had died in pre trial detention during a hunger strike. He was 39. I ask Mr. Muratov that the fact that you're a Nobel laureate, does that give you at least some protection to say what you want?

[Dmitry Muratov]

This is not a question for me. So please, whenever you have the opportunity, ask the authorities that question.

[Steve Rosenberg]

And is there anything I ask that helps you through these difficult times?

[Dmitry Muratov]

We live in a time where people stay silent. But many people do support what we do. On the streets of Moscow, my colleagues and I hear only words of gratitude. They are spoken in a whisper. But what people think is very important

[Steve Rosenberg]

shafts of light in an otherwise bleak picture for critics of the Kremlin.

[Oliver Conway]

Steve Rosenberg reporting from Moscow. And if you want to see his interview with Dmitry Muratov, go to the BBC News YouTube channel. Meanwhile, Ukraine has reportedly agreed to halt drone strikes on oil tankers using one Russian Black Sea port after a request from the U.S. vice president, J.D. vance. The Trump administration is said to be concerned about the high price of oil and about American oil companies that have invested vast amounts of money in the Caspian Pipeline Consortium terminal in Novorossiysk. Christopher Miller from the Financial Times has the story.

[Katie Watson]

I spoke with several senior Ukrainian officials and my FT colleagues spoke with U.S. officials who all told us that on a phone call on July 31, JD Vance requested to Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the Ukrainian president, that the president ask his Ukrainian drone forces to stop striking the Caspian Pipeline Consortium terminal in the Russian port of Novorossiysk, a terminal that carries crude piped from Kazakhstan to the Black Sea ports there. And this phone call took place just three days after Zelenskyy had visited the White House where he met Donald Trump in the Oval Office. And they spoke about ways to try to bring the war to an end. And Zelenskyy asked for greater support in terms of American military assistance. But it's not the first time that the Americans have made this request. Earlier this year, they told the then Ukrainian ambassador to Washington, Olga Stefanishina, that they wanted the Ukrainians to stop striking the CPC in Novorossiysk. And she received a formal warning from the US State Department, which she passed on to Kyiv. But it's really come to a head, you know, several months after the US's war with Iran because the Strait of Hormuz that's closed had a big impact on oil prices around the world. Well, now you've got this other pipeline that's being attacked as part of the Russian Ukrainian war. And so the Americans are interested in seeing the price of oil drop and to see more oil on the global market. So they've been asking the Ukrainians now for a while to stop it. And there's one other reason why they've done so more insistently recently and that is because the American Companies Chevron and ExxonMobil also have stakes in this pipeline.

[Oliver Conway]

Christopher Miller from the Financial Times. She is the youngest ever White House press secretary. But after 18 months in the job, 28 year old Caroline Levitt is stepping down. President Trump said she would leave at the end of the month to spend more time with her, quote, beautiful young children, family. Ms. Levitt recently had a second child with her 60 year old husband, Nicholas Riccio. And returned to work from maternity leave last month. During her time as press secretary, she earned a reputation as a fierce defender of the president's policies and actions.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

It's only because of the United States of America that the French are not speaking German right now. All Americans would agree that funding mastectomies in Mozambique is not something that the American people should be funding. Canada has been ripping off the United States of America and hardworking Americans for decades. It is a fact that the body of water off the coast of Louisiana is called the Gulf of America. And I'm not sure why news outlets don't want to call it that, but that is what it is.

[Oliver Conway]

I heard more about why Caroline Levitt is leaving from Tom Bateman in Washington.

[Tom Bateman]

She says that simply, she didn't feel like she could be the best mum possible to her children, given the demands of the job in the White House. And that is why she is departing for family reasons. A message that was echoed by Donald Trump when he paid tribute to her in a social media post as well. And they have said that she will remain in an outside advisor role to the president.

[Oliver Conway]

Yeah, I mean, she's been a powerful advocate of Donald Trump's policies, despite her young age.

[Tom Bateman]

Very much so. But certainly she's had a very combative style on the podium. I think somebody who is seen to at that very young age, in her late 20s, being able to articulate almost a sort of second guess what Mr. Trump might say about any given issue. And she has not refrained from holding back to lash out at reporters that the White House has an ideological problem with. And even in the leaving notes, she says, I've relished holding the liberal media accountable in this. What has become really a feature of this administration, the way they have tried to turn the tables of accountability, suggesting that it's the role of the White House and the US Government to hold the media to account.

[Oliver Conway]

Will you and your fellow journalists in the Washington press pack, will you miss her?

[Tom Bateman]

Well, you know, it's a professional relationship. And the role of the White House press secretary is to be a first point of contact as well as a gatekeeper in that sense to the president. But certainly, you know, my experience, you're talking about somebody that has acted behind the scenes, you know, with real professionalism. For example, on Air Force One trips, somebody that has given. There has been this very fractured and tense relationship between the media and the White House itself. I think it is certainly possible to have press secretaries that would be harder to deal with. On the other hand, one incident comes to mind, where a reporter was really angrily attacked by Caroline Levitt because she didn't like the nature of the question in the briefing room. And that has been a feature, I think, that certainly many who study the relationship between the press and elected politicians in the US have been quite aghast at. Also, given that Mr. Trump himself has angrily abused verbally reporters, particularly women. And so we've sort of seen that part of this relationship as well, which has been really quite concerning, I think, for those that believe in the freedom of the press. But more broadly, when it comes to the departure of Caroline Levitt, I think there may be more to come about this, if there is more to this than meets the eye, and we just don't know yet, because this news is really only just broken. But I think it fits with the way we've seen other departures handled from the administration, where people have been moved to other jobs or described as a promotion or some kind of way that their role is evolving, rather than what we saw in the first Trump term, which was a whole series of sackings and angry resignations, a lot of animosity and real kind of chaos about the personnel issues of the staff around Mr. Trump. This white House has kept a much more disciplined line, and when departures have taken place, they've been managed far more carefully.

[Oliver Conway]

Tom Bateman in Washington. It was billed as the most significant solar eclipse in Europe for almost three decades, and by all accounts, it didn't disappoint. Millions of people from Iceland and Greenland to northern Portugal and Spain witness what's called totality, when the sun is completely blocked by the moon. In the UK and other parts of the continent, the eclipse was partial, but still drew plenty of onlookers. Science correspondent Pahlav Ghosh was in northern Spain to see it for himself and sent this report from the city of Burgos.

[Pahlav Ghosh]

Those lucky enough to watch the total eclipse saw all they could have hoped for and more. The last sliver of sunlight disappeared as the moon covered the sun's bright disk. A flash, a diamond ring in the sky, and then totality. The sun's shimmering atmosphere, normally hidden, but now, for a minute and three quarters, revealed in all its glory. We could see bright red triangles at the edges. These were nuclear explosions, many times the size of the Earth. Oh, my goodness. I have literally got goosebumps. It's not just from the cold. It's about the spectacle that I've just witnessed. This reminds us of what it is to be human, that we are a small planet in a vast cosmos. And we're seeing the sun in its beautiful hidden form. Amazing. On the ground, there was awe and sheer delight from those who witnessed the sight.

[Wendy Urquhart]

It is going and it is going and

[Oliver Conway]

it's gone. We are in darkness.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

Can't believe this.

[Oliver Conway]

Oh, my goodness. I've taken my glasses off and it is absolutely unbelievable the way the light

[Wendy Urquhart]

was changing within a few seconds. Really exciting.

[Pahlav Ghosh]

It was really, really amazing. It went too quickly for me, but the moment when the moon went over the sun was incredible.

[Wendy Urquhart]

It was surreal. It just feels like you're in a movie. Everything stands still. Like it was really quiet and it just felt like, I don't know, something out of body experience.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

It really took my breath away. You feel emotional as well. You know, it just doesn't feel real at all. And it's definitely something I'm going to remember for the rest of my life.

[Wendy Urquhart]

Two people were crying around us. So yeah, it was special.

[Pahlav Ghosh]

It ended as it began. A diamond ring, a flash. And then the moon and the sun went their separate ways, leaving those who saw this spectacular cosmic show with an unforgettable experience.

[Oliver Conway]

And still to come on this podcast.

[Steve Rosenberg]

At first it was just for fun. It was really a joke among friends. Then little by little, I started adding a tape measure at the front and finding a magnet.

[Oliver Conway]

The shoes designed specially for playing patonk. This is the global news podcast. Immigration agents in the US could soon be issued with gloves that deliver electric shocks to enforce compliance from combative individuals they detain. But ICE is already facing criticism for its use of force during President Trump's immigration crackdown. Here's our North America editor, Sarah Smith.

[Sarah Smith]

Immigration and Customs Enforcement plan to spend $20 million on the gloves that are due to arrive by March next year. They can deliver painful electric shocks with a maximum strength of up to 380 volts, which the manufacturers say inhibits or distracts the subject from performing coordinated muscle movement. They claim that's usually enough to make people comply within less than three seconds. Gloves have already been used in some American jails. Many ICE officers have already faced intense criticism for their use of force against detainees and protesters as they've carried out the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. Across the country, civil liberties activists have warned that giving immigration agents a concealed means of delivering terrible pain is a recipe for harm to the public and less accountability. The manufacturer says the device should not be used as a punishment against people, merely exhibiting verbal defiance or belligerence, or on high risk populations such as children, pregnant women, or elderly or disabled people. The Department of Homeland Security said that ICE agents were targeting the worst of the worst and had faced a 1,300% increase in assaults.

[Oliver Conway]

Sarah Smith. The Australian government has been accused of undermining a program that helps support more than three quarters of a million people with lifelong disabilities. The National Disability Insurance Scheme allocates funding based on individual needs and gives people a certain amount of freedom on how it's spent. Critics say the initiative has become a victim of its own success and it's costing the government too much money. Disabled Australians and their carers say reforms proposed by the government which could be voted on in the coming days are certain to harm the community. This report from our Australia correspondent, Katie Watson.

[Katie Watson]

Yes.

[Sarah Smith]

Good work.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

Okay, we're going to change legs.

[Pahlav Ghosh]

Let's change.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

It's Thursday afternoon and time for Physiosize. Support worker Callie is helping her client Fran flex those muscles.

[Wendy Urquhart]

Yeah, it is hard work.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

It's supposed to be. Physiosize is just one of several activities Fran does each week. She's 39 and has down syndrome, a genetic condition that causes physical and intellectual disabilities. Fran's a participant of the ndis, a scheme aimed at supporting Australians with lifelong and significant disabilities. When it was first introduced more than a decade ago, it ushered in a very different approach to disability support, making sure people were at the centre of decision making rather than having to beg for welfare. But the scheme's success has also been its undoing. It's grown too fast and it's costing

[Oliver Conway]

the government too much in the sense that it covers.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

Health Minister Mark Butler explained the reasons why the government's planning to reform the system that now costs more than twice what it was meant to when it was first introduced.

[Oliver Conway]

The philosophical underpinnings for a lifelong scheme

[Raymond Martin]

of support are necessarily different.

[Oliver Conway]

I think what I've tried to outline today is the need to get back to those basic design pillars of a well functioning social program that's working for participants but also is effective for taxpayers.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

But changes could have a big impact on Fran. According to her mum, Tracey Lee, people

[Wendy Urquhart]

will not get the supports that they need. To live a good life is something we all deserve. It's a human right. The other thing that worries me about the changes is that it'll push people with disability back into those sort of ghetto areas to save cost. Having seen how wonderful community participation is, for Franny to continue to learn things and to continue to be part of her community is just a game changer for all of us.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

This amendment is, in my opinion, reckless, ill thought. Out and entirely devoid of any shred of understanding of what living a disabled life is actually like for both the person themselves and their support network. A recent Senate inquiry heard concerns from thousands in the disability community. Hannah Diveney, who has cerebral palsy, was one advocate who gave evidence. Such was the scrutiny over the proposals, the bill's progress was paused until mid August. Anytime I leave the house, if I'm not with a friend or a parent, it costs something. That's an incontrovertible fact of my life. Freedom, ambition, career, a social life. All of the things other people in this room take as a given or as a right even has a price tag for someone like me. One of the criticisms of the NDIS has been that providers have gamed the system, offering unnecessary and expensive services. Bill shorten helped set up the NDIS back in 2012 and then oversaw cuts to the scheme two years ago after he returned as NDIS minister, He's since left politics and is vice chancellor at the University of Canberra.

[Oliver Conway]

Many are good providers, but some were bad. You know, that's the nature of a government scheme.

[Pahlav Ghosh]

People will hone in on it and

[Oliver Conway]

try and slice off amounts for themselves. So that was a problem.

[Fran's Supporter / Family Member]

But even so, tackling fraud, say experts, won't solve the problem. Hannah Auburn is senior associate at the Grattan Institute and author of a report saving the ndis. The government absolutely needs to tackle fraud and get on top of people who are reiding this scheme because they're routing people with disability and taxpayers and it's just not acceptable. However, the savings from fraud fraud that is evident even in the government's numbers is really small compared to the other reforms that they've put forward. Few dispute the need for reforms, but how they're done is being watched closely by Frennie supporters, with legislation expected to pass in the coming days that will impact the more than 700,000 Australians on the NDIS.

[Oliver Conway]

Katie Watson with that report from Sydney. The organizers of the Eurovision Song Contest have changed the rules to say that winners will no longer be eligible to host the compet if they're involved in an armed conflict. The change is being seen as a reaction to Israel's presence at the contest, given the continued fighting in Gaza and elsewhere. As our music correspondent Mark Savage explains,

[Mark Savage]

for the last couple of years there's been a huge amount of internal conflict at the ebu, which organizes the Eurovision Song Contest, over the continued participation of Israel. Amid the war in Gaza last year, several countries tried to have the country excluded from the competition altogether. When that failed. Five countries decided to boycott the 2026 contest and they included some of the biggest funders and winners of Eurovision, including Spain and Ireland. Now, after the contest, every year there is a review. The rules are looked at and tweaked every 12 months. What seems to have happened this year, there have been some private concerns expressed over whether the contest will take place in Israel, should Israel win. And that's against the backdrop of the country coming second in both this year's contest and in 20. Israel is a really strong competitor and a lot of participating broadcasters were concerned that if the contest went to Jerusalem or Tel Aviv, where it's been held before, that that would compromise the safety of the contestants, but also the delegations who travel there and the audience. And this rule, although they haven't said this explicitly, appears to be in response to that, also excludes Ukraine because they're at war with Russia. And what will happen in the future is if one of those countries were to win, then another country will step in and host the contest. And a significant change in that inst. Is that the replacement broadcaster will not be required to stage the event on behalf of the winning country. Because if you remember in 2023, when the UK stepped in to host on behalf of Ukraine, that was done in conjunction with the Ukrainian government.

[Oliver Conway]

Mark Savage. Surge pricing, where people have to pay more for concert or plane tickets when demand is high, already has plenty of critics. But two councils here in England have been thinking about using it for toilets. Dynamic pricing has already been introduced in some pubs and car parks. So could toilets really be next? Raymond Martin is the managing director of the British Toilet Association.

[Raymond Martin]

We've seen the introduction of charging over the last while, and it helps to pay for some of the utilities and some of these facilities to make sure they're available. So charging is something we're starting to come to live with. But we certainly don't see a reason for surge charging or dynamic charging. When more people come into seaside resort or into town, whatever, they're going to spend money in the local shops, they're going to spend money on local businesses, therefore the town's going to thrive. Why would you want to penalise them? We've lost nearly 50% of the toilets across the country over the last while because councils don't have the legal responsibility to provide them or the funding from government. So we're talking to government about getting a duty and a strategy duty and some funding to help councils. But we've seen it across the way where a town or a parish, which doesn't have toilets. People will get in their cars, but they'll take themselves somewhere else where they don't see they're being penalised.

[Oliver Conway]

So why not ensure that the. The price being charged adequately reflects the cost of upkeeping them, which might be a little bit more, and ensure that those toilets are there for people to use?

[Raymond Martin]

You're absolutely right. Look, I mean, when the toilets were introduced, it was spend a penny and it was back in the 1850s, and a penny then would have brought you a loaf of bread. So we equate that today we should really be paying £1 50 for the use of public toilet. But the councils have fought and fought and most people don't want to pay for toilets. The majority of residents say we pay our rates. That money should already be in the council. But the council, not having the legal responsibility, got to spend the money on cleaning streets, emptying the bins, look after parks and cemeteries, schools, roundabouts. And in fact, most of the council budgets are now going on welfare. The councils are really, really strapped. The money has to come from somewhere. It should come from central government. This is about human rights, this is about equality, it's about looking after people with disabilities. It's a matter of refining the funding rather than causing councils to have to dynamically charge people.

[Oliver Conway]

Raymond Martin talking to Luke Jones. Petonc or boule is a popular French pastime where players throw steel balls at a wooden ball or jack. It involves bending down to pick the balls up after each round, with the potential of a sore back at the end of it all. But the owner of a shoe shop in Perpignan, in the south of France, has designed espadrille shoes specifically for petonque players, and they've become a massive hit all over the world. Wendy Urquhart has this report.

[Wendy Urquhart]

The game of patank dates back to the year 460 BC, when the Greeks got their kicks by throwing stones at a brick on the ground. In later years, it became a firm favourite with French soldiers and eventually the petunk tools were refined with players using lighter, smaller balls that they would fling at a circular piece of wood known as a jack. Now it's part of the rich pageant of French culture. But no matter how many glasses of wine you've had, all that bending down to pick up the steel balls is murder on your back. Olivier Gelli, who founded the Payot brand, has come up with a solution. He's added a magnet to the side of espadrilles that's strong enough to pick up Petonque balls, which weigh around half a kilo. Olivier says it all started as a joke, but after selling 40,000 pairs worldwide, he's definitely laughing all the way to the bank.

[Steve Rosenberg]

At first it was just for fun. It was really a joke among friends. Then, little by little, I started adding a tape measure at the front, putting the cochione, or jack on the side, and finding a magnet. Gradually, we refined the design to make it ready for sale.

[Wendy Urquhart]

The new design does have at least one critic, though, who pointed out that players might cheat by using the magnet to move other people's petonque balls when nobody's looking. Petonk has become so popular in the United States that some people even have a petunk lane in their garden. And 40% of the sales of these new magnetic espadrilles were sold across the pond, which has even surprised Olivier.

[Steve Rosenberg]

I suppose there must be petent players there. I don't know, because when you look at the names, they're definitely American names.

[Wendy Urquhart]

Well, Olivier is already raking in the cash for his magnetic shoes, but he's not done yet. Now he wants to design espadrilles with a tiny bottle opener on one side and a little pocket for the bottle cap on the other side. There's only one response to that. Cheers, Olivier.

[Oliver Conway]

Wendy Urquhart. And that's all from us for now. But the Global News podcast will be back very soon. This edition was mixed by Sydney Dundon and produced by Emma Joseph. Our editors, Karen Martin. I'm Oliver Conway. Until next time. Goodbye.